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serpentface · 7 months ago

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Omg, is there any more about Odonii battlefield performance?

Faiza giving a full battlefield performance, which includes grimacing, sinister looks, letting out terrifying war cries, and banging on her shield with her dagger's pommel. She's wearing a full set of armor, which is functional but highly decorative. A squire will be present somewhere nearby to carry the rest of her weaponry.

As mentioned in the other post, Odonii generally do not actually Participate in fighting. Their perpetual armament and training to correctly Use this armament has predominantly symbolic functions, with their bodies as vessels for state and military empowerment and integrity.

Their normal role on the battlefield is:

a) Spiritual protection for their associated warriors and intimidation of enemies.

Their role is partially to be the ‘guardian lion’ figure in human form, their presence and performance in of itself is considered metaphysically protective. This guardian lion nature is played up and reinforced with their dress and behavior- they wear lion skins over their armor, paint their faces red to obscure human features, perform war cries tailored to sound inhuman (not like lions, just a very shrill and frightening sound). They perform ‘frenzied’ movements that intend to evoke an enraged animal- pacing, banging on their shields, biting their weapons/shields, baring teeth, exaggerated glances that emphasize the whites of their eyes, etc. This can be a disturbing sight- reassuring to their allies who know a frightening spiritual guardian figure is on their side, and demoralizing to an enemy (the latter especially in conjunction with common beliefs that Odonii are witches/shapeshifters)

b) A motivating factor to get the men to fight more bravely.

This is partly out of religious belief (you will probably be a little bolder if you feel reassurance that God is very much present and on your side, via Its priestesses), partly out of esteem for the order (you are highly motivated to perform for their recognition and protect them from harm). In a way, their role on the battlefield is the Least masculinized aspect of their performance- they are in part there to remind men of their mothers, wives, and daughters, who they are supposed to be the protectors of and whose benefit they are ultimately (at least deemed to be) fighting for.

In some cases, this is taken to a (cultural relative) extreme wherein they will expose their breasts towards their own men as a part of battlefield performance, in the form of a supplicatory gesture (bearing the breasts and thumping on the chest with a fist). (The Odomache’s nude body should never be publicly seen under any circumstances, limited and controlled exposure by Odonii Can be appropriate). Breasts are not sexualized in this cultural sphere, but are not treated as neutral body parts either, instead having values of motherly nurturing and feminine vulnerability projected onto them. Odonii showing tits will be a DISTINCT reminder of the ‘vulnerable female’ elements that the men should be protecting, and can be highly motivating (especially in the context of a figure who is otherwise behaviorally ‘masculinized’, it’s jarring and can have useful emotional impact).

c) General spiritual leadership (in connection to a & b).

Weapons dances are an aspect of military training and the kagnoma odo dance is always performed prior to conventional battles, Odonii lead these dances. This has multifacted functions- it is believed to spiritually bless the troops, it is a means of practicing with weaponry/limbering up, it is a psychological rallying point and good for morale, and it may intimidate your enemy who can see it happening from a distance (by displaying readiness/eagerness to battle, good discipline, unity, and physical might). Odonii also perform personalized blessings of soldiers, weapons, and armor.

c) Filling gaps in the command structure or acting as commanders

Odonii are involved in strategic meetings, and ones who receive battlefield roles are very well studied in military tactics. As a matter of technicality, their commands to the body of Imperial Wardi troops do not override those of generals or other ranking soldiers (though they will often be deferred to regardless), but they can fill in gaps in the command structure in case of death of high ranking soldiers or if lines become scattered and communication breaks down.

Additionally, there are two elite warrior orders presided over by the Odonii priesthood (the rest answer directly to the Usoma's court appointed general), with senior Odonii as their commanders and the Odomache as their general. (This is one of many political tension points between the priesthood and monarchy, given that the Odonii have managed to get themselves about 200 high skill, firearm'ed warriors that are separate from the normal military structure, only as loyal to the Usoma as their current general is, and Very beloved among the public so you can't just like, outright kill or disarm this very obvious threat.)

d) A strategic flexing of eastern seaway honorable combat norms

Conventions of honorable warfare have broad commonalities across the eastern seaway peoples, one of which is that noncombatants (by default- women, girls, prepubsecent boys, unarmed elderly men) are not legitimate targets in the normal process of open war (but are fair game in contexts like sieges when a foe has refused to surrender on behalf of their population). Odonii being armed throws a wrinkle into this - they are still effectively ‘noncombatants’ by virtue of being women, but if they actually Engage in fighting they do present a threat that could be justifiably neutralized.

If they do not actually Use their arms they are not legitimate targets, and an enemy concerned with honorable combat will have to work around their presence (or risk social/retaliatory consequences if he does not). They are thus effectively human shields- at the very least introducing an additional layer of difficulties for an opponent to navigate, and sometimes actively putting their bodies between their men and their opponents.

e) as a factor of D, potential mediator figures.

When in conventional battles, Odonii on losing sides are usually expected to allow themselves to be captured without resistance. They stand a very high chance of being taken alive and remaining unharmed due to a combination of factors- baseline honorable warfare practices (which are ABSOLUTELY not always followed, but at least Influence behavior), fears of material consequences in retribution for harming the priestess, fears of spiritual consequences for harming a potentially powerful witch, knowledge that releasing an Odonii unscathed may give the captors a better negotiating position down the line, or knowledge that an Odonii is a very valuable hostage and can make for a good bargaining chip.

Because of this element, captured Odonii are expected to perform mediation roles, negotiate the release of hostages, carry messages from their captors, or bravely tolerate hostage conditions (ideally while gaining intelligence on their captors)

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Odonii very, very rarely actually participate in combat (and are in fact not Supposed To in the vast majority of circumstances).

They are, however, fairly well equipped for it. Their perpetual armament is symbolic in nature, but its intended function of empowering their bodies and the state by proxy additionally requires them to know how to Use It. They are trained and regularly drill and engage in mock battles in each of their key weapons/defensive combinations (sword, sword and shield, spear, spear and shield, longgun, handgun) and are expected to be adept at their use. Odonii who attend battlefields, while not being directly engaged, are still in very high-stress and dangerous environments and will have to learn to stay calm and collected under duress. All this doesn't mean every Odonii would be a skilled warrior in an actual combat situation (given that most will have no experience fighting someone who is actually trying to Kill Them), but it does mean they have enough technical skill and mental fortitude to stand a decent chance.

The only times where they are SUPPOSED to actively engage is when a battle is deemed as an existential struggle and is being lost (in practice, the main context for this is a siege), or losing against a foe deemed so thoroughly depraved that they won’t even slightly follow wartime conventions. The idea in these situations is that they are most likely already doomed, and that they should die protecting their people in battle.

Wardi history is filled with stories of Odonii fighting and dying in desperate conflicts (particularly against Imperial Bur), but this is at least Partly historical revisionism (there WERE some women in proto-Odonii roles involved in these conflicts, but these retellings project the modern Odonii order onto its multiple progenitor practices).

Odonii are frequently present on battlefields, but there are only two major instances of modern era Odonii participating in battle as full combatants, both involving conflict with Finnerich

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The fully modern incarnation of the order can be defined as starting in the late period of Burri occupation, in which multiple Wardi city-states and kingdoms allied against a common foe, and the separate progenitors of the Odonii tradition began to coelesce into a single practice. These alliances were mostly dropped after Burri withdrawal, and the immediate post-withdrawal period was a chaotic scrambling to politically stabilize and assert old territorial claims- thus most Wardi states resumed hostile or indifferent relations with one another. (The one exception is that Wardin and Ephennos remained allied, which shortly would become a Big Deal). Forms of early Odonii now existed throughout most of these states, just not united under a single banner.

The city of Godsmouth was blockaded and besieged by Finnerich during this period (taking advantage of its historical rival’s weakness in the political chaos of de-occupation and hoping to capture or at least maim the city), and some of these early Odonii were involved in this conflict and are known to have engaged.

Godsmouth was a rival to its neighboring states more than anything else- there was little reason for others to send aid in the conflict, and it was left to fend for itself. It was and is a heavily fortified city, and thus the siege lasted for months, with the strategy turning to starving the population out rather than the risky maneuver of throwing troops at well-defended gates to force entry. The Finn forces never managed to breach the inner walls, but were very successful at starving the city's population, raiding its farmlands and villages, and destroying its ports and capturing or burning its ships, all with minimal casualties on their side.

The strategy of the siege finally turned to a risky push to breach and capture the city (due to Finnerich’s own dwindling resources and logistical difficulties in restocking due to storms at sea, and news that an allied Wardin and Ephennos had, in an unprecedented move, been persuaded to send reinforcements (in return for Godsmouth's sworn fealty and absorption into their alliance)), and Finn forces succeeded in breaking through the outer walls. This developed into a very dramatic standoff in which the remaining warriors and/or civilians of Godsmouth attempted to fend off the attack long enough for reinforcements to arrive (which would take days by sea).

Odonii are very famously known to have fully engaged in this stretch of the conflict on the front lines, as it represented an existential threat to the city-state (it’s a fortified settlement, if it was captured, reinforcements would not matter). Some of the recountings are distinctly fanciful (describing Odonii and noblemen leading Siege Of Helms Deep style khaitback charges into masses of enemies, or SWEARING that one of them actually did turn into a lion and ripped apart a hundred Finns before she succumbed to her wounds). An At Least Partially True Story With Exaggerated Elements of the final days of the siege describes the Odonii priestess Hibrides Odiboe rallying a group of elderly men into battle by baring her breasts and scratching deep, bleeding wounds into her chest, declaring herself as 'your mothers, your wives, your daughters, and look how I bleed while you hide behind your walls and wait to die.' While accounts have fantastical elements, it is factual that Odonii priestesses fought and died defending the city's inner walls, notably filling command positions left vacant by slain or starved leaders and rallying citizens to the front lines.

The end of the siege was ultimately a pyrrhic victory for Godsmouth- the city was never actually taken but its population was starved and riddled with disease, its farmlands were burned, and its ports were destroyed. Finnerich forces retreated before reinforcements arrived after failing to break through the inner walls in time, but had succeeded in most objectives of severely wounding their historical enemy. It has been a source of collective trauma in Godsmouth since that point (it is now out of living memory, but vivid stories remain of seeing the dead eaten by dogs and the starving eating the dogs that ate the dead, watching family members succumb to disease and starvation, all while hearing the sounds of fighting draw closer and closer with no reason to believe that any help would ever come), but ultimately recontextualized as a victory, a turning point in the arc of modern history. (The Wardin-Ephennos-Godsmouth alliance, which formed in full as a result of this conflict, would become the triple state that conquered the rest of the region and formed Imperial Wardin).

The direct participation of Odonii in this conflict is heavily played up in the narrative as the order in its purest form as sovereignty incarnate, the priestesses bravely fighting for (what would turn out to be) the beginnings of the Imperial Wardi state. The 11 Odonii who died fighting in the siege have been bestowed sainthood and are memorialized in a series of guardian lion statue-shrines overlooking Godsmouth’s ports (in which their ashes and bones are stored).

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The other instance of modern era Odonii engaging in conflict is significantly less romantic, occurring in the context of the Extremely failed second invasion of Finnerich.

During and after the rout that resulted in the Odomache's capture and killing, it became exceptionally clear to the Imperial Wardi forces that They Were Fucked. The conflict veered with REMARKABLE speed from being an attempt end the state's civil war between the Imperial Wardi-loyalist provincial puppet government and its rebelling northwest population, to a desperate struggle for Wardi forces to get out of Finnerich Alive. At this point it was assumed (fairly accurately) that any defeated party would be summarily executed, so most Odonii present ended up directly engaging in battle. Two are known to have died leading soldiers in a bid to retrieve the Odomache's body, others fought and/or died while defending the retreat.

A few Finn Odonii (women appointed as a local sect of the priesthood after the initial takeover) remained in the capital after the Wardi forces fucked off overseas, and were executed along with the rest of the installed loyalist government and priests (though it's unlikely that they were involved in any fighting, as the provincial government surrendered after the withdrawal).

Odonii veterans of the invading force have not fared well in the aftermath. Most of those who survived the ambush in which the Odomache was captured have ended up committing honorable suicide due to breaking vows in abandoning their leader in retreat, failing to retrieve her body, and/or being assaulted in capture. More have committed (ostensibly ritual, probably emotionally driven) suicide in the years that followed, with the knowledge that their leader's death and defilement and this severing of God's spirit has brought doom upon their land in the form of an unbroken drought and famine, and that they failed to prevent this. The priestess who was captured alive to witness the Odomache's death and released unharmed to report it was the first.

All this has opened some vacancies in the order's leadership, and given things a very somber tone. It is currently in debate as to whether the ones who died on Finn soil (particularly those who died attempting to retrieve their leader's body) should be canonized as saints or if it's a little too soon for all that.

#As usual this veered off but likeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee whatever. It's technically all Sort Of about Odonii battlefield performance.#Just like. Imagining if Imperial Wardin was an actual historical state whose written language was never decoded. There would be SOOOOOOOOOO #much debating on whether they actually had 'warrior women' or not. So much.#And it would probably end up wildly mischaracterized in pop history circles who base their estimates of a historical culture's #level of gender egalitarianism almost entirely upon Can Girl Fight??????? Did Girl Fight In Epic Battles Though?????????? With Sord????#Almost completely unrelated but I'm downgrading the gun tech. Kind of severely. I'm okay with a little anachronism because it doesn't #follow an earth timeline but it's Too anachronistic for the rest of the setting.#Like I need the use of firearms to be VERY limited and not widespread so they need to be in basal stages. The main reason I originally #had much more advanced firearms was due to old lore that is now obsolete anyway.#They're gonna be a lot closer to hand cannons. Like a transitional form of hand cannon closer in shape to a conventional #rifle but without a mechanical firing method.#This means a lot of things I've drawn recently are now obsolete and the joke of Couya having terrible trigger discipline doesn't work #but it has been bothering me way too much I can't do it anymore

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laughhardrunfastbekindsblog · 9 months ago

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I've been thinking a lot about the scene involving "Clone Force 99 died with Tech" and trying to figure out why it STILL doesn't sit right with me even now, 5 months after the Bad Batch finale aired.

Because really, looking at the line and how Hunter and Wrecker respond to it from an in-universe standpoint, it does fit the specific scenario well. Crosshair is getting ever closer to Tantiss with a severely wounded Wrecker refusing to give up, and he's worried. So Crosshair drops that bombshell of a line, reminding his brothers that the squad has permanently changed, in an attempt to try to save Hunter and Wrecker by convincing them to leave him and find a way to contact Rex as he storms Tantiss on his own, because it's "what he deserves." Hunter responds by saying Omega and the clone prisoners need all of them - which (being generous with my interpretation) is likely meant to address the "I deserve to die alone" sentiment Crosshair expressed by instead providing him another purpose. Then Wrecker responds by saying they know the risks and aren't charging in recklessly - addressing Crosshair's original concern.

So I think I would ultimately be fine with this scene as-is if 1) it didn't end up being the last time the brothers ever reference Tech, and 2) it didn't come at the end of an entire season's worth of complete mismanagement regarding the Tech storyline.

Now, I admit my perception will likely permanently be colored by the fact that when first watching the finale and hearing Crosshair say that line, part of me still clung to hope that Tech would show up before the end credits, but in between heaving sobs the analytical part of my brain was going "...Really? A full season of baiting us and THAT'S how you're going to tell your audience Tech isn't coming back? If that's really the case so help me..." And we all know that really was the case 😫😤😭

(Screaming into the void. Starting to realize I do a lot of void-screaming when it comes to season 3, especially with everything after "The Return.")

But even setting aside how soul-crushingly painful that line is, what continues to drive me absolutely bonkers about it is:

1) Tech sacrificed himself so that his squad COULD carry on without him, whether that meant fighting or not, and yet again the narrative itself refuses to openly acknowledge this. Even if Crosshair isn't at a point where he can really accept this (and that's a valid stance for him to take), it would have gone a long way for the show (via Hunter or Wrecker in this case specifically) to still definitively highlight why Tech had done what he did, especially after an entire season that ended up only implying that Tech's sacrifice held the squad back from achieving their goals.

(Another fan told me that they believe the line was a good way to acknowledge how important Tech is because the squad will never be the same without him. While I see their point, I think if the show really wanted to push that sentiment it would have landed a lot better if worded a bit differently and stated during, I don't know, a memorial for Tech. With all Tech's family there. Not desperately thrown out there by Crosshair in the middle of a mission as an attempt to shock/guilt Hunter and Wrecker into saving themselves - after all, as noted above, the purpose of the line in context isn't specifically to honor Tech anyway.)

2) There's no follow up to address the fact that Tech sacrificed himself, in part, so Crosshair could still be saved - nothing to provide that vital reassurance to Crosshair that he was/is WORTH saving.

3) After an entire season of being excruciatingly vague about whether each Bad Batcher has fully grieved or not, they're STILL keeping it vague and robbing the characters of any cathartic moment to acknowledge Tech in a way that actually respects his sacrifice and shows his family - his squad - is acting to honor his memory.

4) Above all, IT'S THE ONLY TIME TECH IS REFERENCED IN THE FINALE OF THE SERIES IN WHICH HE IS A MAIN CHARACTER and it's not in a way that highlights his positive influence on his brothers, nothing to indicate that this mission to Tantiss would have been just as important to him as it is to the rest of them so they're going to pull together as much to honor him as to accomplish their objectives, nothing to make that reference anything more than a knife to the heart. (Oh, sorry, there is that goggles reference in the epilogue. With Omega, alone. Yet again, the brothers have no meaningful interaction about Tech.)

And the thing is, even if when Tech does come back (and I firmly believe he can), the show that is specifically centered around the Bad Batch should not have ended without providing meaningful closure for all of them. (Yes, I'm still banking on another clone-centric show being in the works; but Rebels clearly left the door open for further stories while still leaving things wrapped up for all the main characters at the end of that show, and that could - and should - have happened here.)

...Anyway, now that I've gotten all that off my chest, maybe I'll be a bit calmer during future rewatches of the finale 😅

... Scratch that, I'll probably need to spell out all my grievances about the CX plotline before I reach the point of watching the finale with relative calm 😬

#the bad batch #star wars the bad batch #i've been debating whether to rewatch the finale yet again can you tell?#i really just want to be able to enjoy the great moments in season 3 without zeroing in on all the missed potential #... it's gonna be a while before i reach that point #anyway #tech still lives #but he still should have gotten closure in this show #then again there might not be as many fans still up in arms about his fate so silver lining i guess? if lucasfilm pays attention that is?#tbb salt #fandom salt #tbb crosshair #tbb tech #tbb hunter #tbb wrecker

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