#a fire upon the deep

[thelastofthebookworms]

You'll find the other polls in my 'sf polls' tag / my pinned post.

[countspacey]

all scifi movies should be animated

[wardarts]

Fanart from “A Fire Upon The Deep” of Blueshell the Skroderider! Haha. I dunno why I wanted to draw a skroderider over any of the other fascinating characters. It just kinda happened. They’re cute.

[panqu3ca-doce]

The japanese covers for Vernor Vinge's "Zones of Thought" series are honestly a surprise. They have an emphasis on the human characters, which is not shown on the other covers. Most sci-fi book covers focus on the inhuman aspects, like ships, astral objects and alien species.

[that-dinopunk-guy]

I bought more paperbacks.

(Also I got the Peter F. Hamilton books entirely based on enjoying Pandora's Star like twenty years ago and completely managed to not realize there's another book between The Dreaming Void and The Evolutionary Void.)

[simowis]

Discussing 'A Fire Upon the Deep' after reading - with Javik

<Tines>

Spoilers everywhere ↓ *translated by Deepl

Tines：

He noticed that I loved the Tines. After all, I’d just figured out the concept of the Tines. I enjoyed the vividness of the author's descriptions, the switching of points of view, the silky smooth way in which the concept of the Tines was introduced…

"Wait!" he said. "I don't think they'll be able to compete with single organic beings like us. They need at least four 'packs' to form an intelligent soul, that's a big weakness." He paced. "But these 'group minds' can observe far more than we can with their radios, and it can manoeuvre multiple devices at once while wielding up to eight weapons. It would have to be reduced to only three 'packs' on the battlefield before it could possibly be disabled, a formidable opponent indeed." He turned his head, "HF sound wave! It must use its radios to disperse into small units, jamming them will turn it back into individual organs. The physiology that relies on high frequency vibrations to think outside the body is also its great weakness."

I flipped through the book, pointing out that they were still in the Middle Ages, the potential of their race left much to be imagined: such as the triadic work cycle model depicted in the book; those massive walls of bodyguards composed of endless tines 'packs'… He lifted his head, "Yes, with cloning they can achieve immortality by simply replacing 'packs', much easier to achieve than us monoliths. They can also use it to make multiple copies of themselves." Yes, but we have cloning technology too. I was thinking about Shepard's clone… "Is that Shepard's own personality?" Javik denied it, Our monolithic clones can’t achieve that with enough accuracy, but the Tines might have been able to."

I can easily imagine them preserving their own personalities by replacing cloned 'packs' and freezing the 'packs' with their own memories, much easier indeed than the technology of human cloning. There were examples in the Middle Ages of them living for hundreds of years - 'Pilgrim' and 'Woodcarver', a race that could touch immortality too easily. "Living too long is not a good thing." Javik's eyes flashed dangerously, "Class entrenchment, corruption, monopolies - a society like that won't last long. Eternal domination is nothing but a nice fantasy. Even our leaders need to be replaced with new blood on a regular basis."

It occurs to me that their packs are only capable of animal-level thinking, does that inhibit the Prothean’s ability to sense touch?? Interesting, very interesting. Javik, can you envision the cycle of the Tines ruling the galaxy? He shook his head, “I don’t see them having that potential, and they probably don’t taste good, with so little flesh. We Protheans would not approve of their ascension. But their social structures are worth maintaining an observatory in orbit around their home planet." There was some awkwardness in the air as he avoided the subject, so I resumed my reading.

The medieval Queen of Tines was an artist, she could paint and sculpt, so… what style of music might they have? Did the diaphragms of the 'packs' produce any frequencies or particular rhythms? Javik scoffed, "Sound is their outward thought, do you think they'd turn themselves into a bunch of animals just for the pleasure of sound art?" He laughed in a deep voice. "Hmmmmmmm… that's a good point. All that crazy 'electronic music' in your human pubs could easily kill them!" This Prothean suggested to me in the worst possible way that 'music' might not exist for the Tines.

 "Zones of Thought"

The concept of 'Zones of Thought' in this book was so vague that I didn't enjoy it very much. How well Tines was written, how badly the 'Zones of Thought' was written,  and I couldn't immerse myself in that aspect of the book. As with the 'Blight', it is vague and unclear as to how the ultimate threat will be subdued. His knowledge of this can only be based on my reading experience. But he reviewed it anyway.

"This super-intelligence, 'Blight', can take control of human-level organisms, make the Skroders rebel… It works a bit like the Reapers." He leaned against the sink, "But it's just high-level AI without a body, at least we don't have to use our bodies to fight it. And the Internet isn't much of a problem for us Protheans, either." Yes, you Protheans don't trust machines.  You don’t rely on them too much. I sort of wanted to retort, but… ah… the author had not simply described exactly how 'Blight' infiltrates and controls humans. "Exactly, I need to know how they do it first, so I can figure out how to counter it." He said: "Let's stop this, there's no point in discussing it further. Besides, no one in my galaxy can exceed the speed of light." Well, don't you think it's possible that we could use the 'Zones of Thought' to control the Reapers? I asked. "If it does exist, then the Reapers are the ones who did it to us first." Javik closed his eyes. "They're far beyond our technology."

[thittholang]

意义不明的联动（）左边那个是我的形象，我在初中的时候就这样画自己了…有一种奇怪的相似，哈哈

Some weird linkage. The stone robot on the left is me. I drew myself like this since I was in junior high school… There is a strange similarity, lol

[intpatypical]

There was still a threat, but now he understood it better, and - as was true of all great threats - it held great promise.

Vernor Vinge, A Fire Upon the Deep

[erinflight]

Book recs: Alien aliens

If there was some un-official rule that every alien had to be plausibly non-human, I think sci-fi as a genre would be much worse off. But, sometimes authors do manage to spin up aliens that really feel like they come from a biology or a psychology unlike anything on Earth. Here are some examples: 1. Semiosis by Sue Burke

What would plants think about us, if they could think?

Semiosis posits a world where most plant (colonies) have a kind of rudimentary intelligence, and alter their biology/chemistry to manipulate animals into doing what they want. And then human settlers arrive. This book has a great premise, which it explores well. None of the individual characters were particularly memorable, but the way the human community as a whole reacted to the world (and its secrets) was well done. I recommend this book to anyone who's looking for a fun and thought provoking, but relatively slow paced, reading experience. 2. A Fire Upon The Deep

Unlike Semiosis, this story isn't about the aliens. There's an intense plot, where the aliens' unusual psychology plays a large part, but exploring their nature isn't the point of the story. The doglike aliens in this story aren't singular individuals. Rather, they run in packs. Any single individual on its own is basically an animal. But bring three or more together and you have a person. And by trading out or losing a pack member, that person's personality can fundamentally change. Great sci-fi story that explores a lot of cool ideas, with the alien pack minds being just one. 3. Sisyphean by Dempow Torishima

This is the strangest book I have ever read.

It's also not one story, but five, each taking place in a different setting and a different time. It's deeply unsettling, deeply fascinating, and sometimes feels almost nonsensical. But the beings in this book truly gave me the feeling of looking in at something out of my understanding that was still understandable. There was a logic I couldn't follow, but it existed. And the book does let you piece together a fair amount, though you'll be left with questions. I don't necessarily recommend this book. But if you want the experience of getting a glimpse at an alien society, this is the closest I've ever gotten.

4. Solaris by Stanislaw Lem

There's a planet. It's alive. It may or may not be intelligent. This book does a great job exploring it's central conceit (the living planet) and a terrible job with pretty much everything else (the characters, the plot, storytelling in general). My favorite part of this book was the ambiguity. The planet is responding to the human presence. But whether the response is an intelligent one is up for debate. Read this book if you want the thought experiment, don't read it for the story.

[lukecoalman]

Trying to sketch Johanna Olsndot and Pilgrim from Verner Vinge’s Children of the Sky. (Sequel to A Fire Upon the Deep)

Very cool sci fi series about the children of a super advanced human cilivization landing on the medieval planet of hive mind dogs

And a fascism virus

[metronn]

this is my review so far

[darklyscanning]

a fire upon the deep

i stumbled on this in a bookstore, entirely by chance. the title and description intrigued me; what sold me was the first few pages detailing a specific mechanic within the book, the likes of which i’d never seen before. i bought it immediately.

before i explain what, exactly, fascinated me in those initial pages, i’d like to say some basics: this book is pretty long, but it’s fairly readable despite some pretty mind-bending concepts. the characters are strong enough, though it’s more about the external world-building than the depths of the psyche.

it’s descriptive, it’s gripping, and the ending leaves you with more than a few questions - but that’s just the way i like it. it’s a science fiction novel of epic proportions, with artificial intelligences, strange alien races, spaceships, and usenet groups. its author is retired computer science professor vernor vinge. it was published in 1992.

in the world of a fire upon the deep, the galaxy is divided into 'zones of thought'; these zones determine the level of consciousness and technological advancement that can be achieved. it's truly fascinating, and defines every aspect of the story.

on top of this, curious alien species are introduced. for example, a canine race that have a group consciousness, where characters are made up of several members. or a race of what is essentially seaweed in pots. with wheels.

to understand how incredible this book is, you're just going to have to read it.

writing 8/10 • thinking 9/10 • loving 8/10

[snakegirllovehandles]

RIP mr Vinge.

Go read A Fire Upon the Deep

[opens-up-4-nobody]

Once I was scrolling thru naruto fics and saw the tag "buisnessman!Kakashi" and all I could think about was Kakashi being a child businessman, owning all the konoha adults at doing business while wearing an oversized suit and tie. That idea is so fucking funny to me.

[scopophobia-polaris]

i think youre sick and twisted youre sic an twisted you cannot go on here and be like oh monsterfication in hyrule <3 it also happens to the non-humans its not that crazy OH BUT THE GORONS 👀 👀 👀 👀 👀 THE GORONS 👀 👀 👀 and then disappear I'm biting you I'm biting you like fredbear bit that child I'm biting you bithgin you my lawyer will hear from you youre like a little ghost in my ear teasing me about gorons and then I wake up and there's nobody there 💥this is sick n twisted u need to dig your brain just to get the goron lore out I need to stop sending you brainwaves about ganondorf and start sending you brainwaves about the gorns you will hear from me 🫵🫵🫵🫵🫵🫵🫵me when I get you em what I get you me when I get y

OHHHH EZLO WANT A GOOD IDEA???? SOMETIMES THEY START TURNING INTO DODONGOS AND SHit

My best example of this ...IS TIMIE ACTUALLY

[moe-broey]

Winter concpets.....

(these first ones are At Least a year old 😭😭😭)

First up, a Winter Sharena concept!

And a little comic about it

The last panel would have been Sharena begging to "steal Alfonse's body warmth" while Alfonse subtly/sarcastically teases her about it, Moe trailing behind them (I lost steam/focus though 🥲)

This was The Year Of Bruno as well, and I was testing out/playing with the scenario presented (From the Tempest Trials and from what Winter Bruno says, it seems Alfonse and Sharena spent the holiday together while the Summoner was spending it with Bruno the Envoy)

(funny aspect of this is I don't even really enjoy "why does so and so call you babygirl" jokes anymore LMFAOOO like. Nothing wrong w em and was a decent set up here, but Moe would Not Fucking Say That skskksk) (also you can Tell this is Early On in Moe's development bc its fangs aren't even piercings 😔)

This year I Did revisit Winter Concepts, espp wanting to redo my Idea of a winter Moe who's helping out Bruno with Envoy Duty

All it needed was to become more of a furry and some loose BDSM gear inspo 👍 I was also thinking about a few different things! Like how Bruno's fit is literally just his regular outfit with some Santa suit on top LMFAO. But I was also thinking about how Moe is probably not meant to be recognized here? If it is hanging out with Bruno? Who is actively avoiding being seen by Alfonse and Sharena? So Moe keeps the shoes/tights, but little else!

Final version would have most closely resembled this one!

And another little comic

Once again I'm parsing how okay well how are they interacting with each other. What's the vibe here?

I wanted to draw a bigger piece of them hanging out, maybe spending the night together by the fire with hot cocoa after a hard day's work (again thinking about how it's implied the summoner spent the holiday separately from Alfonse/Sharena). I may revisit the concept again, I feel like there's a lot of potential story-focused comic wise here.... and a lot of set up for some funny conflict later.