#across the spider verse analysis

[fiepige]

Just pointing this out since I haven't seen anybody else mention it:

Notice how Hobie's already collecting parts for his own watches before they even get to the lab?

Look at him in the gif above and you can clearly see him pickpocket something from a tray from a bypassing spider-person!

I love this detail so much!

And notice when they get to the lab and Jess is no longer with them he no longer hides the fact that he's taking stuff from the lab (he even makes sure Miles sees it, probably to signal to him that he doesn't respect the spider-society and neither should Miles).

This also shows that Hobie trusts Miles more than the other spider-people already! Since he doesn't have a problem with Miles seeing him take all this stuff from the lab, but he hides it when he's around the other spider-people as seen in the first gif!

[the-cat-and-the-birdie]

We talk about how mischaracterized Hobie is - which he is - but I honestly think someone else is characterized REALLY weirdly by fandom

Miguel O'Hara and Misrepresentation of His Rage: a.k.a Miguel has Ken Energy you fools

[this is a breakdown where I examine Miguel's trauma, his relationship with Miles, his role in The Society, and his personality]

I talk a lot of shit about the Hobie tag, but the over-saturation of smut in the Miguel tag is at critical mass.

And like Latino-fetishization aside, I feel like he's not written as a human.

He's written so flat.

I swear ya'll be writing him as the angriest, coldest, most anti-social man on earth. Ya'll be having him rude and avoidant with no friends whatsoever or a romantic soft latin lover and NO IN BETWEEN

which is so funny cause like... I feel like Miguel is Just A Guy

I know they're easy to overlook but I think about moments like these all the time

But I ALWAYS see him written him as friendless, and cold, or constantly irritated and angry but like - I feel like most of the time Miguel is just some dude. Like in a Good Way.

And he's fine with that.

Miguel runs a Society Full of Spider-people, and they're working for him voluntarily. Peter Parkers wouldn't work for someone they didn't think was genuinely, good-likeable, and level-headed.

He compliments Lego-Spider-Man. When Hobie was there he wasn't pissed he was just like 'not in the mood rn ngl'

and Hobie didn't take the piss outta him - because I feel like him and Hobie have a mutal understanding/relaxed relationship. All throughout the movie Hobie isn't talking bad about Miguel in specific - he never says anything about Miguel being annoying or evil - he's always taking about The Society Miguel has made.

Even Hobie - who will openly talk bad about the PM, doesn't really feel the need to diss Miguel's character in specific. Which I find very interesting.

I think this, along with a couple other things shows that the way we view Miguel in fandom is not really how he is, like..when he's not going buckwild insane.

Miguel and His Role as Canon

I could see Miguel taking his role as boss very seriously - the same way he took being a father.

Miguel has assumed the role of 'leader' over these Spider-people. In his eyes, it's his job to lead these people through their canon events to the other side, for the safety of the universe, and for them to become the people fate says they're supposed to be.

Because he made the mistake of 'going against fate'. A lot of the time we say that Miguel's justification is 'because I suffered, you must too'. But in his eyes, it's more like 'I tried to run from who I was supposed to be and it blew up in my face. Please don't make the same mistake - it's not worth it.'

Quiet literally 'Do what you're supposed to do, and things won't fall apart around you.'

And I think that really says a lot about how he feels about his own choices, and his own daughter.

Miguel broke canon to be with his daughter, and because of that, she - and billions of others, died. And Miguel feels directly responsible for that. In his eyes, he killed his daughter and murdered billions of people.

And although he loves his daughter - he sees it as not worth it. He sees taking her father's place as a mistake.

To Miguel, canon events and the pain they cause are much more 'worth it' and 'tolerable', than the pain and guilt of killing an entire universe.

Because with canon events, there is no fault. It's not your fault you couldn't catch Gwen Stacy. It's not that you're not fast enough, it's that it's suppose to happen. It's not your fault.

But in Miguel's case - it was his fault. It wasn't suppose to happen.

That's why Miles sets him off in a way others don't and can't. Because he wasn't supposed to happen.

When things are under control, Miguel is fine. When things aren't, Miguel isn't.

Miguel needs order. He needs canon. Not because he likes it, but because he feels beaten into submission by it. He feels safe in the idea that canon events happen even if you do everything right, because he still feels the guilt of having done something 'wrong'.

That's why he sees letting people die in canon events as 'the right thing'.

It's the trolley problem.

A trolley is hurtling at someone you love, on the other track there are 5 people. Do you let the one you love die, or do you hit the switch and save them - and take the blame for killing five people?

What's the right thing to do? Save your captain father and letting a universe die? Or letting your father die, but the universe will for sure live.

Miguel has already made his choice, even if he didn't know it at the time. By becoming a father, Miguel hit the switch. And he chose his daughter at the expense of a universe. And he regrets that decision. He feels guilt, like he's to blame.

When canon events happen, there's no one to blame. When anomalies happen, there is.

Miles and Miguel

Miles and Miguel have an interesting and unique dynamic with each other, one that I haven't seen anyone mention yet.

When I look at Miles and Miguel, especially in this scene:

I kinda see Miguel and a past version of himself. Miguel trying to stop what he sees - as someone about to make the same mistake he did.

When Miguel met his daughter, he didn't know about it's threat to the multiverse. And although it might be described as the best time in Miguel's life, he regrets it. If he would go back, he would have rather let his daughter live. Fatherless, but at least she would have lived.

Miguel didn't know. But Miles does. And that's what makes Miguel so furious.

Miles is going to go against canon, be with his dad, and threaten the multiverse. And Miguel believes that if Miles does this, billions of people and beings across a universe will die. 100% totality rate, 100% assured.

Miles is in the same position as Miguel once was. Miles has the same choice. To choose the one he loves over canon.

The only difference is Miles knows. He has a chance.

Miguel believes that Miles can spare himself the pain, and the guilt of murdering billions - if he just listened to him.

Miguel is the only Spider-person who has ever killed a Spider-verse. And he doesn't want that for Miles.

Miles being an anomaly was one thing. He was ready to calmly talk about that. But when Miguel sees him going down the same road as he once did, making the same choice even though Miguel is telling him not to - it makes it snap.

Because if Miguel could go back, knowing what he knows - if Miguel could only be in Miles' place - he wouldn't. Like Rio said - Miguel would kill to be in his place.

He sees Miguel like how Rio describes herself, oddly enough. Rio says she'd kill to be in Miles place, and she doesn't understand his 'irresponsible' behavior. But unbeknownst to her - his 'irresponsible' behavior is more heroic than she can understand.

Miguel is just the same. He sees Miles' choice as irresponsible, that he's making all the wrong choices even though people are throwing opportunity at him.

Miles is the only other Spider-person to risk what Miguel risked. And, genuinely believing everyone will die because of this - he's furious at Miles, the same way he's still furious at himself. He loved his daughter, and he knows Miles loves it dad. But having been on the other side of it all, he sees it as not worth it.

Miguel wants to be the only Spider-man who is the way he is. He doesn't want to Miles to do what he did, become what he is. Because he knows theres no coming back from that.

If Miguel could go back and shake himself and scream in his face to leave Gabriella alone, to just leave her dimension alone, he would. But he can't.

So he does it to Miles.

Miguel as a Boss

I don't think Miguel is an outright mean or abrasive person. I feel like outside of Miles, he's fairly calm, albeit a bit stressed. I could see him being really organized and good at time management -

And I can see Miguel being good with people. I don't think he's the kinda boss that'd be like 'Oh, you had a canon event last night? Your girlfriend fell off a building? Yeah, we get that a lot, get over it.'

And if anything - I think he'd want to help the Spider-people when it comes to processing canon events.

Miguel believes that canon events are necessary, not just to the multiverse, but to the development of who Spider-people are 'supposed' to be. So I think he'd set up support systems around HQ to help them process it, and he'd at least be a bit understanding.

I could absolutely see Miguel as the type to ask a teammate "Are you alright?" after something intense, or telling them to sit out. I could see him giving generous leave for Spiders who are going through stuff.

By Jess's response, it seems as if he leaves most of that to her, but I feel like the fact he stops to tell Gwen "Don't worry, kid." shows that he's use to comforting people, or prioritizes putting people at ease.

I mean, what Spider-man doesn't?

Miguel does seem to get along with people (aside from Miles and Gwen when he's scolding her), and it seems like people do like Miguel.

Miguel's Personality

Tbh - I don't think he's nearly as angry as fandom makes him out to be.

He was raising a child. I imagine that for the most part, he's pretty patient.

Like if you call him a name, he's not gonna get pissed. I feel like he's more likely to be like "Haha. Very funny." Or just pinch his nose bridge and be like "You done?"

I mean I know with all the gnashing and clawing and yelling and going apeshit, it can be easy to imagine Miguel as JUST that.

But I also like to imagine that most of the time, he's just like that normal boss as Target.

And a lot of his day is spent doing boring mundane things.

He's not always standing there brooding over videos of him and his dead daughter. He only does that when he's psyching himself up to yell at Miles.

Outside of that, he probably has a lot more things to do, realistically speaking. Organizing missions, checking status reports, looking over intake forms of anomalies, okaying and vetoing different protocols. Approving new technology, taking complaints from members, dealing with Hobie (an extra job in its own right), fixing things MayDay breaks, etc, etc.

And he's completely fine with that. Maybe he even finds calmness in it. When there's order, and routine, and everyone is working together and there's no kinks in the hose per say, he can operate.

Like yeah he's a little irritated and looks like he only slept 4 hours - but he's here and he's going to work with his team and employees, make sure things run smoothly, and make sure everyone gets home safe.

He's gonna try and make the society a nice place to be and make sure people on the team (like Lego) feel appreciated and odd-one-outs like Hobie get to hang and do what they want without much kickback.

The other Spider-people - like Pavi - wouldn't have joined otherwise.

If Pavi had showed up and Miguel was all stern and cold and rude, he probably would've been like 'no thanks my friend'

Miguel knew Peter B. before he lost Gabriella. So he had to become friends with Peter some way. He was putting up with Peter and his humor by choice, and in return Peter must have found Miguel cool enough to hang out with.

I think it's because Miguel is good with people, a lot of different types of people.

He's pretty down to earth, even if he is a work-aholic. He can be fun to chill or hang out with, even if he's a bit of a tight-ass.

Sure his humor may be dry, and his personality tame, but he's just him.

But I can see him as being a guy who you see at the gym routinely and never say hi to but you just nod at each other in silent respect while doing your workouts sometime.

Or the dude at your job you only see at the coffee machine - you know he does other stuff, but you never run into him anywhere else.

Or the dude who'll stop on the street when you ask for the time and lift one earphone before telling you it, then walking away without another word.

DO YOU GET WHAT I MEAN DO YOU GET THAT VIBE Like just Dude He's like a dad but not like a 'Dad vibe' with like sneakers or anything but like 'Dad who comes to PTA meeting but doesn't talk to anybody and quietly leaves when it's over'.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND PLEASE TELL ME IF YOU UNDERSTAND THIS VIBE It's giving Ken.

Anyways stop avoiding Miguel's Kenergy.

[writerorlion333]

Parallels Between Spiderverse Villians: "It's All Your Fault Miles"

Kingpin: Blames Miles for the death of his family in their final confrontation, despite the fact that A) Miles was not Spiderman yet, and B) His wife and son left because he was about to punch Spiderman (Peter P.) in the face while holding him by his neck.

The Spot: Blames Miles ruining his life despite the fact that A) He chose to work at Amex, B) He was partially responsible for the creation of the collider in the first place, and C) if Miles hadn't blown it up, they would likely all be dead.

Miguel O'Hara: Blames Miles for breaking the multiverse despite A) It was in no way Miles's choice to get bitten by a spider Amex stole by mucking with spacetime, and B) He has no concrete proof of his theory, as evidenced by how he claims that Miles saving the Inspector was disrupting Canon even though without Spot that never would have happened in the first place

[m4rs-ex3]

the visuals for the last like 20 minutes of atsv are my favorite things ever

specifically: the color theory

earth-42 is obviously striking on a whole nother level

we tend to automatically think of red as the color of danger, but that's loud and passionate and angry. this haunting, sickening green feels more conniving and threatening and apocalyptic.

(if you think of color in disney movies, all the scariest, most cunning villains--maleficent, scar, ursula, evil queen, facilier, gothel--have either palettes or grand moments or motifs heavily utilizing green)

and something i always notice is that rio 42 looks just a little off, and it's because they reflect so much green in her eyes they look almost entirely green

and, if this is your first time watching, you have no idea why the environment is made to be so deeply unsettling. let's look at gwen's dimension for a sec

being home is a really bad thing to gwen. while miles was doing everything he could to get home, gwen was literally dragged there--because gwen views her dimension as unsafe (ignore the trans parallels ignore the trans parallels ingore the tra

it's dark. it has the same ominous rain. but you can tell it's 65. that bisexual lighting is unmistakable

i can't even go into the colors of gwen and george's argument because there is an image limit and i am lazy. but we know it's insane. the emotional peak of the scene is also where we see the colors most vibrant and changing the most abruptly

and when they have their beautiful lil moment, this is what happens

not only is it blindingly bright and trans colored all of a sudden, but the characters don their "true" coloring

and even after gwen leaves, the scene is still bright, and familiar

miles should be safe in his dimension. but we know he's not.

back to earth-42. well i mean we have these absolute visual bangers what do i need to say u get it

and then there's this absolutely incredible moment where i would say miles is at his emotional peak (manic peak as well; i mean spot's hands and the infamous revenge line...yoikes.) and just like with gwen, the emotional high is where we see the most dynamic colors so coincidence i think not

this next sequence is just one of the coolest fuckin chase-esq scenes i've ever seen. like the mumbattan one slapped but the pacing and direction and elements and epicness together here are just immaculate

another thing--miguel/ben's post is heavily shrouded in red. he's supposed to be ominously looming over exactly where miles is headed. buttttttttt~ when miles first crash lands, there is quite a bit of red, and as he gets closer to home, the city gets bluer and bluer with less and less red, bc yk he's not actually headed towards miguel/ben. woah. i make sense guys. i am a fart smella. i mean smart smella. i mean fart fella. i mean fart smella. i mea

[chaos-and-sparkles]

In Which I Ramble About Pavitr's Character Design and the Indian Cultural Stuff Related to It

DISCLAIMER: I'm an Indian, and these are all my thoughts and analyses, but I'm also just one person and by no means am I speaking for everyone. I am not all knowing, and I am not immune to being wrong sometimes. These points are all my own thoughts and stuff that I know through my lived cultural experiences and some history and book knowledge, but I've not particularly researched any of these. I'm just out here giving my take from what I know. This is mostly just going to be me rambling, okay? Okay. Let's go!

Anyway okay so I just wanna go from the top down:

No. 1:

First of all his hair

His fucking hair

This is one aspect that i k n o w I'm overthinking and probably wasn't as significantly thought out in the design but it just Spoke to me and by all accounts I'm not the only one

But I'm so glad we have him with his thick gorgeous fricking hair, especially them being like curly/wavy and slightly long instead of straight and cropped or whatever

Like. Indians usually have very thick and luscious hair, not everyone ofc but generally it's a thing, and it's considered a point of pride to have long dark thick hair.

And the thing is for the longest time the beauty standard in India was to have very straight and shiny hair, all the actresses and heroes were doing it, even though that's literally not the realistic case for a lot lot LOT of Indians. There's a pretty big variety of hair texture in India; some of it is regionally concentrated too, eg. in South India you get a lot of frizzy, tightly coiled hair that's rough textured, whereas curly hair is usually silkier and looser curled as you go Northwards,, Bengalis tend to have very wavy thick hair,, etc. By no means a rule or anything, it's just a thing that there's a lot of curl variety and a lot of it was for the longest time considered ugly and unkempt (there are some classist/regionalist elements to this stereotype also unsurprisingly) still is by some people,,, bc the standard was Shiny Straight Hair. It's a standard that's slowly shifting. It's currently leaning more on the wavy and voluminous side. But it's def a thing still.

All that to say, it makes me so so happy to see Pav with his curly-ish lush hair that he wears with such pride and style,, that are a symbol of his own pride and self care too!!!

Also the line about "coconut oil, prayers and good genetics" - I LOVE THAT REFERENCE AHAHABSSK, using coconut oil for the hair is a very common thing here, it's so so good for the hair and the scalp alike and it's relaxing to massage it in too.

I've seen people try to write Pavitr in fics as "quickly brushing some coconut oil through his hair" as part of his morning routine and. Um. That's not how it's done askaskjas, I don't mean to be rude to the writers at all, everyone does the best with what they know and no one knows everything, but also practically speaking that would be greasy and awful.

There are multiple ways to apply coconut oil, ofc. Coconut oil is often massaged into the scalp and rubbed into the hair like an hour before washing, sometimes with lemon juice mixed in, and then washed off when bathing. Some people, especially those with drier and finer hair, apply it as a regular after-hair-wash thing, too, but even so it needs to be rubbed in.

A really beloved thing we have is coconut oil champis, too! This is basically when you sit down cross legged in front of youe mother/grandmother, and she massages the coconut oil into your scalp and hair in a way that literally cures all tension and headaches and leaves your head reeling and is so so good for hair and stress and everything. It's a family bonding thing more than just a hair routine. It's not always done by the mom/grandmother ofc, it's just how most of us first experience it, and they have a technique that none of us can ever quite replicate to the same effect later. As we grow up, we often do it for ourselves and for others. It's a weekly or monthly or even just occasional thing depending on who you ask. But yeah that reference was great I love it dearly!

Also about the hair length

So in the current modern "civilized" standard (Indian schools and society in general tend to do a lot of shit trying to assimilate us into western culture and stamp out our own,, for example all my life I've been in schools where speaking Hindi and Telugu and stuff in class or in the hallways was Wrong and Forbidden and We Must Speak Only In English Bc We Are Educated And Cultured. This is so fucking hypocritical bc they would also have Hindi and Telugu classes and then criticize us for not getting it right or whatever), boys are meant to have short hair. Teachers literally single boys out in class for leaving their hair longer, not the exact length they set as the limit. This was my entire school experience; thankfully it doesn't seem to be the case in college, but that may just be bc I'm in an artsy college. In the workplace it's less stringent but it's still a thing.

HOWEVER, historically and culturally, long hair was considered good and even Important for both men and women. There's huge regional variations in this ofc; Maratha peshwas and higher classes and stuff for example wore a "pilaka" (idk what else it's called), which is the head shaven clean except a tuft in the middle that's sometimes braided. Brahmins still do it too.

But my point being, long hair was considered good for the most part, at most it would be worn in a bun for fighting and working,,, braids are a pretty big deal too. Having to cut your hair short=a symbol of dishonour and/or exile, or reserved for menial workers and so called "low classes".

(This is not stuff you even get explicitly told btw. This is stuff I've mostly inferred and studied from history and mythology and stuff , so there's no guarantee I'm 100% right)

Also, in Sikkhism (I'm not Sikh myself so correct me if I'm wrong, this is just what I know) having long hair is super fucking important for men. The hair is wrapped up in the turban, and the turban is a symbol of honour and pride and literally considered life. The long hair is considered sacred.

Removing the turban is basically a symbol of literally losing your honour pride and sense of self,, not just in Sikkhism, just generally at this point. Cutting your hair? Insult on injury.

Pavitr doesn't have particularly long hair ofc

But having grown up with such rigidly enforced things abt boys having very short cropped hair, it makes me so happy to see an Indian character who defies that.

Also!! Quick tangent about braids and their significance,, they're considered very beautiful and another symbol of pride, intricate buns and what not too! Just wanna drop this to give you an idea of what i mean:

In the Hindu myth of the Mahabharata, Draupadi, the wife of the Pandavas (she's a very interesting and important and beloved character, regionally also considered a goddess, she was a princess born of fire married to five princes and the vengeance for her honour literally fuelled the war for righteousness etc etc) vows never to braid her hair again until she has washed it in the blood of Dushasana, a man who forcefully tried to disrobe her in court (it's a whole myth of its own). At the apex of the war, Bheem, her husband, brings her his blood. She washes her hair in it and then for the first time in thirteen years, she braids it.

Braids are not as significant now but it was basically a Pretty Big Deal and I just wanted to talk abt it.

In Hinduism too the gods are portrayed with long hair, it's a Thing.

No. 2:

Okay so moving more downwards,, I have a bunch of Thoughts abt Pavs mask design!

Okay so obv we have the spiderweb-pattern that's a given.

But. The interesting parts are these:

The bindi-like design on his forehead.

Bc my point is

Sure that looks like a bindi. And that's beautiful in itself but I HAVE ANOTHER TAKE

Bindis are traditionally worn by women as a symbol of beauty, prosperity, and again, pride. But while nice, that's not quite a symbolism that fits imo

You know what else is ver similar where my mind immediately goes? A tilak.

The shape is kind of off for a tilak actually, a tilak is more of a U or a V with a dot or a flame-like stroke in the middle. So in that case it looks more like a bindi

But i really like thinking that it's inspired by a tilak too, bc

While a bindi is a decorative mark stuck or painted on a woman's forehead as a symbol of beauty and prosperity

A tilak is basically a mark that's finger-painted on the forehead of , usually a man but there's a softer smaller version for women too and ofc there are women warriors who got tilaks, for auspicious and blessing reasons. So in a Puja or ceremony, a tilak is put as a blessing and an auspicious thing, also meant to impart strength. The head of the household usually gets the most striking or biggest one.

Pandits usually wear tilaks for blessing purposes too, although their design is different and more elaborate than the ones given to others

Gods and goddesses had their own tilaks, some of them very distinctive like Shiva's

The part that applies to Pav is the warrior tilak

Basically before a king or warrior went to battle, it was customary to do a small sending off ritual and for the wife or mother to put the tilak for them and say "Vijay bhava" (may you be victorious)

It's still done for big undertakings and challenges like exams and new jobs and stuff.

It's basically for strength, bravery and victory

The main difference in a bindi and tilak is the intent:

Bindi is for beauty

Tilak is for valour

Which. For a HERO. Just. Chef's kiss.

2. the markings around his eyes!!

I'm sure this has been said before, but it's very very reminiscent of kathakali makeup.

Regionally there's a lot of eye makeup stuff also btw. There are some absolutely beautiful tribal designs and regional designs with a lot of colours but I cant remember specifics rn

Also!! The very distinctive black lines around Pav's eyes?? I love them sm bc they feel so so based in kohl and kajal. Another huge beauty and often pride related thing.

There's even a whole thing where a mother or older sister will often rub a bit of her kohl off on her fingertip and press it behind their loved one's ear so that "buri nazar na lage" (no one's bad gaze catches you). It's called a kaala teeka

The idea being that you're so beautiful and/or cute and bright and lovable and nothing should jinx that and nothing bad should happen to you. It's very rare now and I've never experienced it myself but it's so so precious <33

3. the white markings on his cheeks!

I've seen that explanation of how it's reminiscent of Ganesha, the elephant headed god who is kind of a symbol of new beginnings, intelligence, prosperity, and a ton of stuff I don't even know how to explain honestly, but he's very cool and beloved and has a lot of Good Vibes™ and i love him basically.

I personally am reminded more of kathakali makeup again!! But that explanation is very cool too and i like it!! I don't know if I agree bc i think it m i g h t be a blasphemy to have that imagery on your face, afaik no one here does it for any reasons and we have literal festivals and pujas dedicated to Ganesha

But then again I am a human with limited knowledge and i don't know everything

I personally think the tusk like designs are very cool. However, I also think it would be a bit of a No No for religious reasons. I also think it reminds me more of classical dance face makeup and stuff.

I also think if they meant to make it a Ganesha reference, then he should only have a tusk on one side, bc there's a huge deal about Ganesha being "ekdanta" (transl: one toothed) bc he has a well known myth of breaking off one of his tusks to write a mythologically and culturally significant epic.

There are also a lot of actual cultural face painting things in India that are way cooler than the Ganesha thing in my opinion. So while that theory is cool, I don't personally agree with it. I could be wrong, again, idk what the design intent was exactly.

No. 3:

Next thing: this is a very very small thing and i only have a sentence on it, but i really appreciate Pav's neckline in his suit.

The neckline here? That's the kind of cut that's most typical of kurtas. Especially more ceremonial, kingly, wedding sherwani, or generally festive attire; a regular kurti might have a v-neck or something, but this curved collar? Very Indian and classy in a way I can't fully explain.

No. 4:

This next thing I'm going to go completely ballistic about, everyone hold on to your seats!!!

THE FUCKING MOTIF ON HIS UPPER ARMS. IT'S EVEN ON THE MEHENDI-ISH PATTERN ON HIS WRISTS AND HANDS. THE SPIDER SHAPE TOO. I AM NOT NORMAL OKAY

LISTEN.

LISTEN TO ME

TBIS IS CONFIRMATION THAT KRISHNA PAVITR IS CANON

HE IS SO SO KRISHNA CODED

Idc if I'm delusional, i DARE you to look at that blue design and tell me it doesn't look like a peacock feather

THE SHAPE OF HIS FUCKING SPIDER IS OH SO SUBTLY CURVED TO BE PEACOCK FEATHER SHAPED TOO

There is no human way for me to be normal about this i need a minute

Okay for context:

Krishna is a very important and beloved god in Hinduism. I cannot overstate the love I have for him, even being mostly non religious myself.

There is SO MUCH about him he is such a big deal and thanks to him being made a character in popular Indian cartoons and so many animated and live action movies being made about him, he is literally woven in the fabric of our collective consciousness and love for our culture

He's a mischevious and fun and chaotic and lowkey antiestablishment kid deity. He contains the literal universe. He has a deep abiding love for his people and his family and loved ones and the world he serves. He is a dancer, flute player, sweetheart, lover of life. He has a thousand wives, yet one Radha who he never married but is his literal immortalized soulmate. He guides heroes to duty. He is full of wisdom but also silly hijinks. He is so so beloved.

The peacock feather is his symbol! You could see the peacock feather anywhere and it's immediately OH KRISHNA! He wears a peacock feather, famously. In all his iterations, from childhood to adulthood. Peacock feather is his emblem.

Krishna is depicted through the peacock feather. It's become a very common motif in arts like mehendi and various textile arts to have peacock feather and peacock patterns; I'm sure that existed before Krishna too in several cultural circles but he is definitely a huge part of it since. There is a chikankari motif that is very recognisable that's reminiscent of peacock feather but I'm mostly unsourced on that, going off my own interpretation

But there's a definite link between peacock feather=Krishna=inextricable part of culture and art.

At least in North India. He's less of a big deal the further south you go. Still very widespread and overall loved tho.

So anyway seeing that peacock feather type motif on Pav?? Mixed with his Spiderman identity??? Is so amazing to me.

Krishna coded Pavitr real ✨

(Also yeah people have already pointed out that Pav's hand designs are based on mehendi so I don't need to go into that askjasjkas)

No. 5:

Also. Huge fan of his arm cuffs. It's just another Indian warrior thing; often in ye olde times and in mythology, the cuff would be a lot simpler, often just a thread with an amulet to grant you protection. But it steadily became fancier, and now it can be decorative or a valour thing or both

Very often just decorative now actually. Often seen in weddings and ceremonies too

No. 6:

Okay about his bangles now:

I absolutely LOVE THEM I love them so much I am so obsessed with them actually!!

So. First of all

I remember there being a confusion in like earlier fics especially on whether they were bracelets or damrus or bangles or what

And i have Thoughts

So first of all

They are not damrus/damarus.

Damarus are a musical instrument made of wood and with two beaded ropes to beat on the small drum-like ends. They're also symbols of lord Shiva who uses a damaru.

They are very different from what Pav wears and i remember my fucking whiplash when earlier fics called his bangles damarus. I think i choked on my maggi.

I don't mean to be rude to the writers ofc, they were doing the best with what they knew. But it's just very jarring to me to hear that

I think an explanation I heard was that Pav's web shooter design was inspired by damarus? Which yeah I get that and I actually wanna talk about it bc I very much see it. But they are very much NOT damarus themselves

So

First of all i personally have never seen nor heard of the kind of bangles Pav wears which appear to have a strip of cloth in the middle? While being gold cuffs on both ends? Which is new and interesting actually and opens up aspects abt his character that i find really interesting

Bc first of all: that implies he made them himself from stuff he already had inspired by things he saw. It seems, at least to me, like he used bangles/kadas he had to make the shooters he uses, which are designed the way they are for easier slinging and his cool tricks with them which would be harder if they were solid gold, and also the shape when he does the cool yoyo-y trick and hits The Spot with it and everything is very damaru shape. Which is also pretty cool if it's meant as a reference to Shiva and his damaru (he's a very fierce god with the damaru) or a reference to the street performers who use it nowadays.

Either way - and also additionally the fact that PAV LITERALLY DOUBLED HIS BANGLES AS WEB SHOOTERS WHICH IS SO CREATIVE AND SMART - and developed his own whole signature skillset with it?? And made his own bangle/shooters as I said before????

My boy is PEAK jugaadu

He is the embodiment of jugaad

Never has anything been so true to the Indian spirit than jugaad

Okay so for context, the jugaad that I keep talking about:

It basically means makeshifting and/or inventing stuff you need from the limited stuff you have. That's a very simple way of explaining it. Just imagine that, but up the silliness level x100.

For example, a guy jugaaded a showerhead by poking holes in a sprite bottle and putting a hose in it and routing it to the tap.

Jugaad can be both very smart, and very funny and silly

And it usually involves combining useless stuff/trash/just stuff you had lying around to make smth that you didn't wanna waste money buying, and often ends up having more functions than the stuff it was meant to replace. This but it's also very crackheaded. Like idk how to explain. It's basically makeshifting, but it's just developed into such an Indian Spirit Thing™ that we have a word for it

So i love that Pavitr's bangles do all of that. He is a true Indian boy to his core!

No. 7:

Okay I have thoughts on his dhoti too!

So.

Blue.

I know why they used blue for his dhoti, what with the spiderman colours, the need to complement his bright red with smth softer, and everything. I get it and i love it so so much. What I'm about to say next is not a complaint against this at all, it's very good design imo

But.

Everytime I look at him in his fucking blue dhoti

I just remember all the times my grandmother has apprehended me and made me go and change for trying to wear blue or black at a Puja

Bc they're apparently unholy colours ;_;

Basically yellow, saffron, red are the appropriate holy colours. Now that i think about it, I've never seen a god or mythological king depicted in a blue dhoti or generally blue clothing either - farthest they go from the three i described is pink or green

I never really thought about it until my Nani pointed it out. I'm still not sure if anyone except her even knew or cared about it.

But that is the memory that bonks me on the head every time i Perceive the blue dhoti

Bro upgraded from funeral colour (white, which is his dhoti in the comics and absolutely infuriates me on a visceral level) to unholy colour askaskjjska it's so funny to me

Purple was still a luxurious colour, but generally warmer and/or lighter colours are The Done Thing. It's an old notion and the cultural connotations are now very diluted by Western influence and also none of us Caring about a lot of it anymore (not necessarily a good or bad thing particularly)

Indigo also has. Loaded connotations.

Because Britain did a Colonialism and a lot of Indians suffered for it. It's a whole history lesson.

I would rather not get into the whole details but basically Indigo (the plant from which the dye was made) was a valuable commodity and Britishers essentially forced farmers to grow only that, ignoring their need to grow food or sustenance or care for the land in general, especially in the Bihar-UP regions. There were eventually a lot of revolts where many people, esp farmers, died.

Basically a double whammy of starvation and death as a direct result of colonialism. It was a major part, historically, that sparked rage for the freedom movement

If you wanna learn more abt it you can search up Champaran farmer revolts!

Also about the drape of Pav's dhoti:

I've seen a couple of memes and reels abt how Pav, in an emergency, suiting up for Spiderman duty, would be taking an hour to drape the dhoti and stuff

And those are hilarious and i love them

But also

That's literally not even a proper dhoti -

So the thing pav wears is basically more of dhoti-pants with a cummerbund.

So okay I need to explain this better hold on

A dhoti is basically a sheet of fabric that is draped around the waist and down. The elaborateness of the cloth can vary vastly from intricately patterned silk and brocade, to plain white cotton with a thin gold border optional

The drape of the dhoti varies even more depending on region, occasion, occupation, and status. You can have everything from the casual simple towel like drape and tuck that some men wear to relax on a daily basis, to an intricate thing with many folds and pleats and tucks and the middle part that hangs (I forget the name for that) that would actually legitimately take hours and is often adorned with jewellery . To a thing that's flexible to move in and also looks very pretty and is genderneutral some dance forms call for.

Basically. The drape varies vastly. And it's all one cloth, maybe a second one for a separate cummerbund sometimes, I'm not that well versed abt dhotis tbh.

But the thing Pav wears?? It doesn't seem to me to be folded the way I've ever seen any dhoti

The way it's folded and shaped is not how those style of dhotis work. There would be a lot more pleats and folds, for one. But it's not shaped the way to match the less-folded dhotis either.

Now, I'm no dhoti expert, but that leads me to believe that's not a full on dhoti. What it's more likely to be is dhoti-pants

Dhoti pants are this fusion thing. It's in the name. I haven't seen it much but I know/think/am pretty sure its a thing, bc most Indian guys now don't know how to drape a dhoti either and it's a good solution. Worn like a pant, looks like a dhoti. Simple. A cummerbund for the middle drape, and you're set!

Also side note: the fold with the distinct two legs and the middle drape that Pav has? Is the most commonly depicted warrior and king drape,, at least in North and Middle India, I'm not as well versed about the South but I think it's the case there too. The gods are depicted in that drape too

I have fewer comments on his leg design, I like that it's reminiscent of mehendi even on his feet bc yeah that's also done on the feet, although rarer now and also a bridal thing

No. 7:

He has gold cuffs on his ankles that I really like!

Okay so here's the interesting thing:

I could be wrong, but

But that kind of thick ankle cuff is not actually an Indian thing?? At least not in the warrior hero context that a lot of his design seems based on. At least not of that shape and width.

What we do have though are very simple metal ankle cuffs put on (I think) one ankle of young kids for protection,, again a tradition I'm not very familiar with, it's more localised

The other thing we have that's more interesting tho:

We have payals and ghungroos!!! Which opens up so many exciting prospects to me because those are both dancer things

Like. The payals are ornamental. They are beauty things as well. All women would wear them, their elaborateness and style depending on status, money, and region ofc

They double as dance and performance things too ofc

But ghungroos are specifically dance things

Very very sacred and honoured to the dancers, too. Quite personal

(These are all little bells on the ghungroos btw!! Hundreds of them. They ring out when the dancers dance)

This is what Pav's ankle cuffs most remind me of. It's not the same thing ofc, and idk if the designers were even thinking of this.

But it would be really cool if he was inspired by ghungroos to have cuffs of similar thickness and placement on his legs. Perhaps even familiar to him hmmm?

This is me theorizing HARD to support my headcanon, but combined with Pav's classical dance-n-martial-arts-y moves, i present to you: Pav learning classical dance when he was younger (a thing that a lot of Indian kids do and only a few seriously continue for their lives) is real.

I rest my case

Like yeah it's known at this point that Pav's moves are based a lot off the martial art of kalaripayattu. Which is SO AMAZING AND I LOVE IT SO MUCH!!! But I also think this would be a cool influence alongside that, bc it really feels visible too.

No. 8:

The fact that Pavitr is barefoot is so so important and dear to me!!!

In Indian culture, you're supposed to take your shoes off as a mark of respect, before entering the ranabhoomi (literal transl: battleground, but not in an actual war with swords and shit ofc)

Being barefoot for pujas and in temples and on sacred ground in general is very important

As is being barefoot when you're walking onto a kabaddi or wrestling ground,, basically any fight that's supposed to be important and/or with honour. It's a respect thing for the opponent and for the earth you fight on.

There are a lot of contexts where being barefoot is important or a given

There's the prayer ground bc it's sacred and holy and you can't be dragging your dirty ass shoes there it's super disrespectful. You gotta enter with clean feet specifically, dirty feet are considered disrespectful too. that's also why there wil often be feet washing areas outside of temples here

Then there's the ranabhoomi that I just said, which is more of respect for your opponent and the earth. Respect to the earth especially is very important in the combat forms and sports I know of at least

Then there's the basic respect and tbh the hygiene thing too, of always taking off your footwear before entering another persons house. That one is more flexible, sometimes you can take it off inside, but the done thing is to take them off outside generally. Especially if you're a guest who's not particularly close. You'd be considered really rude if you didn't take them off at all. But again that still varies by person,, the older generations are way stricter abt it

Then the bride thing,,, it's actually a whole small ritual. The bride and groom will enter the groom's house for the first time,, which is considered the bride's new home bc misogynistic tradition so yeah. But basically it's supposed to be an auspicious beginning to a new home and life. (Btw being barefoot during the wedding ceremony is also generally required)

Usually, at least in North Indian tradition, a small vessel of rice is kept at the threshold that the bride must tip over with her foot when entering. It's for prosperity. Then she steps directly into a plate of a red liquid I forget the word for, but it's basically a sindoor paste type of thing. Her first steps into the house must be taken leaving those red footprints behind. That's for auspicious beginning

So Pavitr being barefoot is so so cool from a cultural and a character building standpoint

He takes his job seriously, he does it with respect and honour!!! He seems so chill and happy go lucky, but he's deliberate and respectful abt it!! And he's super connected to his culture too, bc you could just Not and no one would care, but it's so important that he does!!

So yeah!

That has been my full ramble askjasjkas. If you made it this far, have a cookie! Thank you and I hope this was interesting <33

[tikiki05]

“you people cant handle complex/morally gray characters!!1! 🤓”

DUDE. WHAT IF I K*LLED YOU. IF A CHARACTER IS COMPLEX AND/OR MORALLY GREY, THEN WE’RE GONNA TALK ABOUT HOW THEIR ACTIONS ARE COMPLEX, AND MORALLY GREY, AND HOW THEY DID BAD THINGS. THAT DOESN’T MEAN WE CAN’T HANDLE THEM. ITS CALLED DISCUSSING AND ANALYZING MEDIA!!!!!!! YOURE THE ONES WHO CAN’T HANDLE THAT!!!!!!

[iwasbored777]

Why's it when Miles accidentally pulls half of Gwen's hair out it's funny cuz he didn't do it on purpose which is the truth but when she opens the packaging of his toy she should burn in hell even though she didn't get the idea why he kept it in the box and wouldn't do it if she knew what was the reason????

[foggyworksbutbetter]

something minor i noticed in “the spider within”

so they dropped a new spiderverse short, and after like the 5th watch i noticed smth interesting

you’ll notice the bed, miles, and the spider within are animated on twos (which means theres a new drawing on every other frame) while everything else around him is animated on ones.

some of the broken pieces of the bed so start being animated on ones, assumedly to make it smoother, but miles and the spider within all remain on twos as miles is pushed out of his room.

this was a technique they used during into the spiderverse as well. when miles is learning how to be spiderman, he’s animated on twos while peter is animated on ones to represent the gap in their skill levels and also the difference in their universes. you can also see this technique used on a couple other spiderpeople in that movie. it creates an effect where you can just tell how unnatural their movements look in the world around them—even if you can’t quite pinpoint why—because they aren’t in the right universe. applying that idea to this scene, it shows miles’ disconnect from the world around him, from reality itself. we already know that what he was seeing and doing wasn’t real, since his dad didn’t react to any of the screaming or panicked crawling despite being a very alert person (demonstrated when he jumps at miles opening the door). it’s a very minor but interesting detail that further shows how out of touch with reality miles is as a result of his stress and trauma.

[rere9500-18]

Miles and his abandonment issues/not wanting to be alone.

Something I’ve always thought about Miles was that he has abandonment issues. This clip here is only a scene that shows apart of that.

Gwen’s “I’ll never see him again” makes him panic, with not seeing her or Peter or anyone of his spider friends for a year or so now. Hearing that from Gwen alone probably is what mainly encouraged him to jump through that portal and follow her. Because if that portal closed, there’s a big possibility he’d really never see her again.

Even in the second half of the video where Miles is walking to his dorm/new school and he walks past his old school with everyone he knew chatting it up with him as he passes. It’s clear while Miles attended that school, he’s been friends, or at least acquaintances, with a lot of the people there. He has and still does leave an impact on them, if it wasn’t noticeable by the amount of people simply happy to see him walk by.

At the end of it, the last girl asking how the new school is and that they all miss him, Miles responds with a “Wait… you miss me?” with a smile on his face. Now, I’ve seen some of the comments on that bit on YouTube and it’s mostly people thinking it’s Miles being cute with the ladies, but I don’t believe that’s what that was at all.

It’s clear to see Miles is cool with most people in that scene; of course keeping in mind he’s spent time with them at some point in his life if they are telling him they miss him. That little smile Miles had and the question that followed was an exact reaction to truly realizing that nobody at his old school has forgotten him, nor intend to, in theory, leave him anytime soon. It’s that warm feeling of knowing that maybe you truly do have people by your side. It’s actually a little intense with Miles since I think he sort of needs that feeling more than you’d usually need it.

Whether it be his mom, his dad, his uncle (RIP Uncle Aaron 😔), or the spiders who he thought were his friends.

That’s why it hurts so much when they’re taken away from him. Either by death or because of needing to pick a side. Because that warm feeling slowly turns into dread that no one’s by his side anymore. That the people he love may not love him anymore. That he may have to face something he’s been trying to hide from: being alone.

Because being alone means you’ll have no one to care for. Being alone means no one’s gonna give you their warmth when you’re in the freezing cold. Being alone means you’ll be left in the dark by yourself with no one to encourage you to break out and run free.

Miles followed Gwen to avoid having to be alone, like he was for the past year after she and the other spider-people left. Because, while it doesn’t make it right to follow someone and then go invisible to see what they’re doing, he wouldn’t have ever known this would have been the last time he’d see his best friend if he hadn’t followed.

At the end of the movie though, I feel that Miles is put at an even harder spot due to him trying to prevent his father’s death. He wanted to be with the rest of the spider people so badly that it blinded him to the fact it wasn’t all it seemed to be cracked out to be. At the end of the movie, all Miles wants is to go home. Yes, it hurts to lose everyone you’ve worked so hard to see, but in his mind, if the people you call your friends can’t understand that it’s fucked up to let an innocent person die, his dad no less, for a so-called ‘greater good’, then maybe that warm feeling of them being by his side isn’t what he wants right now.

Miles feels betrayed by Peter B., Gwen, and most importantly, by himself because he soon realizes that he was so determined not to lose them again, that he never realized he’s lost himself in the process. Gwen, Peter, and everyone else basically said (through their actions) that they’ll never see Miles again. Who is Miles to stop them?

He doesn’t care what happens afterwards. He just wants to go home, HIS home, and stop the one thing that will truly make him deeply and utterly alone.

The death of Aaron and Miles being Spiderman only encourages Miles to want to do these things. He wanted to surround himself with people he can trust, but he soon realizes those relationships can die, either by actual death or by lies and secrets.

Idk. This is all just my view of what Miles feels even in Into the Spiderverse. If you’ve finished reading all this, idk; eat a cookie or something.

[hobiebrownismygod]

hey how about a margo study (spiderbyte). she has so little screentime and as far as i know no real comic book lore

Researching Characters so you don't have to Part 6: Who is Margo Kess/Spider-byte?

Origins:

Margo Kess lives in a time where everyone spends most of their time in VR. If you've ever seen Ready Player 1, its a really similar concept. Everyone has their own virtual avatar and they all exist in a place called Cyberspace.

She hooks herself up to this network through a computer in her school's computer lab, and connects to her avatar, Spider-byte, that way. She thinks of herself as a kind of community service member, and spends her time tracking down cyber-criminals and helps people.

Powers:

She's not your average avatar. Her intellectual prowess and great knowledge of computers helped her hack the network to create these powers for herself. She can teleport through Cyberspace and uses her arms can stretch like we saw in the spiderverse movie.

She programmed her skills and armor to boost her speed and strength all by herself. Her cybernetic armor provides protection and keeps her identity a secret.

In the comics, Ghost Spider eventually recruits her to fight the Inheritors, but thats not really a part of the Margo Kess character we saw in the spiderverse movie so I'm not gonna get into it.

But other than that, there's really no other information about her origins or her powers. She doesn't have her own comic series, but hopefully she gets one eventually!

[simplyender]

A man(?) and his supercollider: Creating yourself through your creations.

So, I rbed this post by @eebie just now about how pieces of the collider turn on when Spot/Abyss arrives, and I put some thoughts in my tags, but I decided to make my own post to expand on them:

So, interestingly enough, there's actually a deleted scene of what could have been the second fight between Miles and Spot(starts at 20:30), where this happens:

So, it's implied that Spots powers arent just holes, but actually can expand to straight up reality-warping.

Which brings me to the collider, and some of the stuff it does, which Spot has been shown to be able to do.

But first, for the unitiated: The supercollider was designed by Johnathon Ohnn, AKA the Spot. Olivia just took the credit for it. (source: the ATSV Artbook)

The collider apparently runs on dark energy (like Spot) and, as ya'll know, warps reality to bring things from other dimensions to 1610. Spot got his powers from a combo of a container of the dark energy from the collider breaking on him when the collider itself exploded.

To put it simply: Spot created the collider, the collider created Spot.

So it's no real surprise that this effect looks like Spots powers, considering it's the same material doing the same thing.

But what's more interesting is that once Spot becomes absolutely livid, he starts warping reality too, making things float as the collider did.

And this is all before he becomes the Abyss. The power of his collider has always been in him, he just got rid of his limit.

Idk what else to say, I just like how his powerset mirrors what the collider can do :)

[rabbidrabbitt]

I know that ATSV has been out for MONTHS and little details have been analyzed and talked about a lot, BUT!! Here’s a little detail from the opening scene that I haven’t seen people talk about and I absolutely adored!!!

So during the first scene with Gwen’s monologue there were many scenes being shown from both the first movie and the second and there was LOTS going on. So I didn’t notice every detail at first. But on my about 4th or 5th watch I noticed this!!

For some reason I thought the spider was just floating for visual effect because of the nature of the animation in this segment. BUT I FINALLY NOTICED THE TWEEZERS. I just think it’s a sweet little detail because we’re later shown this in the Spot’s apartment

So without it ever being said, they established through small details that The Spot did in fact go out and find the spider, likely taking the time to pin it himself like that (we love a man of many talents)

I love this movie so much. I love the writing, the animation AND THE SPOT OH MY GOD

okay that’s all from me again, goodnight!!

[the-cat-and-the-birdie]

The Hobie Brown Punk Playbook - Anarchism & Hobie's Arc

A short series where I analyze the political, historical, musical, and romantic influences of Hobie Brown, and how it affects his arc, design, and character.

1) Anarchism 101 / 2) Punk 101 / 3) Hobie Characterization Guide (How to Write Hobie) /4) Punk & Hobie's Design / 5) Romance in the 70's

_______________________________________________

Why Hobie's Arc is the perfect metaphor for Anarchy and Anti-Establishment:

What is Anarchism? What's an anarchist, and what makes Hobie one?

In most places, Anarchism is defined as:

a political theory advocating the abolition of hierarchical government and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis without recourse to force or compulsion.

Which means that, as an Anarchist, Hobie believes that all forms of authority that involves a hierarchal power should be abolished and destroyed.

Anarchists opposes any and all power structures in which a single person, class, or entity rules over a body of people.

Anarchism is a thought system that, at it's core, is anti-government, anti-monarchy and anti-cop. It's goal is to protect and highlight the importance of equality and community but also freedom and individuality as well.

Although many people assume anarchy is about chaos - and denying any and all structures - if anything, it’s actually the opposite.

Anarchy is about balance -

When we look at the definition of Anarchy, we can see two complimentary ideas. ______

The first is the 'advocating the abolition of hierarchical government' - which is the sentiment Anarchy is most known for. It's the opposition of power structures in which one class or group rules or gains privilege over another - cops and civilians, the government and citizens, Spider-people and the multiverse, Miguel and the Spider-people...etc.

For the purposes of this post, I'll call it the First Pillar of Anarchism, and it's the basis for one of Anarchism's foundational beliefs: direct action.

(Which Hobie is the king of)

The second idea is one often overlooked, but just as important, and I'll talk about how much it colors Hobie's characterization in a second.

The organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis. Anarchists believe in equality, and the power of the collective and working together as a unanimous unit.

But they also believe in freedom of choice, and the choice to be independent.

When working in large cooperative groups, there is the risk of a shared identity that may stifle or assimilate it's members. Just as much as Anarchists believe in unity and equality, they also believe that a society - or any group - should be voluntary. And that sticking out from the pack is okay and even encouraged.

They believe people reserve the right to not participate at all, and that it is their right to differ and challenge the pack, if they so want to.

In the perfect anarchist world and situation (in my opinion,) - No one rules over the collective, and the collective rules over no one.

When you put those two together you get Anarchy. A balance of community and self.

And although we don't live in an anarchist utopia, Anarchists are people who live life fighting for the equality and unity of others, as well as their independence and freedom to be who they are outside of others.

In short, An Anarchist is someone who believes in equality, community, freethinking, and most of all freedom of choice.

Starting to sound like anyone we know?

What makes Hobie the perfect Anarchist?

Hobie is Anarchy personified. Literally.

Hear me out.

When we look at the definition of Anarchism next to Hobie's actions, behavior, and beliefs - we can see the writers created Hobie and his arc to be anarchy in it's purest form.

Anarchy is described as:

a political theory advocating the abolition of hierarchical government and the organization of society on a voluntary, cooperative basis without recourse to force or compulsion.

Hobie only has roughly ten minutes of screentime, and I wrote (here) exactly how the writers squeeze meaning into (quite literally) every-line he has.

In every line and frame the writers are intent on having Hobie move towards the 2 specific goals and motives on Anarchism, backed by his punk and anarchist morals.

Firstly, he approaches Miles to advocate the abolition of Miguel's hierarchical society, emotionally and mentally encouraging Miles to oppose his authority. All of Hobie's speaking lines are dedicated to this purpose - becoming an ally to Miles (and other Spider-people) and inspiring rebellion.

This is reflected by his opposition to the ideas of anomalies, and Miguel's rule.

I just wanna highlight, that when Hobie meets Miles - neither he nor Miles are aware that Miles intends to avoid his canon event.

At the point of their meeting, Hobie only knows that Miles has disrupted Pavitr's canon event, and that Miles himself in an anomaly.

Hobie opposes Miguel's hierachial society, his rule over the timeline and multiverse, and his use of force and threats of violence. By advocating for the abolition of Miguel's society and urging Miles' rebellion against Miguel, Hobie is directly engaging in the first pillar of Anarchism.

When Hobie's efforts pay off and Miles escapes Society capture, he's goal changes toward the second pillar.

Hobie recognizes Spider-Society does not operate on a voluntary, cooperative basis - as their canon events are mandatory by force and compulsion. And because of this, he thinks ahead and uses his self-made watches in order for him, Gwen, and Miles to exercise their right of choice. From the moment he quits, all of Hobie's behavior is dedicated to this purpose - getting Miles and Gwen out of the society, and helping Miles avoid his incoming canon event.

The Spider-Society is everything Anarchy stands against.

Anarchy stresses volunteered and cooperative effort for a reason.

I spoke earlier about how in cooperative groups, their is a risk of a shared identity within a group that forces assimilation and cooperation.

And Spider-Society is the perfect, and most literal example of this.

Spider-people are (literally) the 'same person'. Those in the Society are united by the shared identity of being Spider-people. This identity is mandatory for entry - and because Miguel ties canon events to the identity of a Spider-person, the canon events become compulsory and mandatory as well.

I mentioned before that at the time of meeting Miles, both he and Miles had no idea about Mile's incoming canon event. He, like Miles, only learns this when Miles announces that his dad is about to be captain - in front of Miguel.

When Miles escapes and Hobie quits, from that point on - despite the fact he's not fully shown on screen again - Hobie still manages to act on and stand by Anarchism. From then on, every single one of his actions is dedicated to opposing the involuntary, compulsory nature of canon and canon events.

Hobie interferes with the compulsive nature of canon by approaching Gwen's dad and speaking with him. He interferes with the involuntary nature of the Society's membership, by leaving Gwen the watch that allows her and Peter B. to leave, going AWOL.

___________________________________________________

As a character, Hobie is what is considered a insurgent. His purpose in the story and Miles' life is to inspire action and rebellion within him and the system.

And at his core, Hobie is meant to be a character that's meant to empower others - especially at their lowest point. That's what Anarchism, and Punk, is about.

Hobie is Anarchy personified.

Every one of his motives and lines are dedicated to it's purpose. Whether it's his first scene disarming Miles with humor and allyship, or him deliberately copying Society technology.

With every word and frame, Hobie inspires rebellion - defying hierarchy, and empowering choice.

With the people closest to them, he literally put the power of choice in their hands, whether it be Miles' palms, or the watch Gwen held.

In the battle against the Spider-Society - an organization of hierarchy, control, compulsion, and force - the writers chose to have Hobie's weapon of choice be Anarchy.

And it's really clear they see Anarchy for what it is - a system and tool of empowerment, compassion, and freedom.

And honestly, I can't think of any other words that can describe Hobie better (or than hot).

Hobie Brown is literally walking Anarchy idc idc you can't tell me different bye.

Find Part 2 - Punk 101 here!

__________

also have a couple more ideas and drafts of these, mainly examining: Punk and what makes Hobie punk, his design inspiration and fashion, the 70s history behind him, romance in the 70s, etc so uh yeah

[killerpancakeburger]

Besides his violence (verbal, physical when he throws objects and fight), what bothered me about Miguel is how every one of his word is to be trusted. And it is trusted, by every spider in the spider society apparently. Without question.

Like just because Miguel broke the canon once, that makes him an expert on the subject? Surely he knows as a scientist that a one time event isnt reliable enough to base your whole theory on it...?

Lyla says there's an algorithm, where does come from? How was it done? By a single guy? No peer review?

It's just that everything around the multiverse treated as truth is just Miguel's theory. And because he's the only one with that knowledge and their leader, no one ever questions him? That can't be good. Nor healthy.

Gwen and Miles questionned him the right way. "How do you know?" "Do you know what happens for sure if he breaks the canon?" And the answer "Do you wanna find out?" Feels like admitting he doesnt actually know. He isnt sure.

They should do more research, get data and experiment before rushing into life changing decisions. Before deciding that theres only one right way to do thing, Miguel's way. Surely among the thousands of spiderppl they got, there must be other scientists.

[keeperofthebees]

do I have your attention? good

just realized I've not seen a single person say that Miguel has PTSD but Miguel abso-fucking-lutely has PTSD and I'm surprised more people haven't like noticed like it's so obvious

The traumatic event was. you know. his daughter dying in his arms as the entire universe crumbled around him. That's why Peter is so comfy with him, cause he saw that happen and knows "if that happened to me I wouldn't fare much better" and Miguel is his friend, first and foremost. Second, his boss. And third, a man with PTSD. that's less important to him because he likes Miguel and Miguel is not his trauma.

some symptoms of ptsd I'd like to point out specifically bc i think they apply:

avoidance of situations that bring back memories of the trauma (����)

heightened reactions

agitation

irritability

hostility

hypervigilance

self-destructive behavior

social isolation

severe anxiety

mistrust

guilt

loneliness

emotional detachment

now I want you to look at these and the look at me and tell me Miguel doesn't have PTSD. look me in my face.

I have seen a lot of people calling Miguel a "monster" and an "asshole" and some other not nice things and i... guess I could... try and ignore the fact that he is a brown man with anger issues and PTSD being called a monster specifically by white fandom members. yes, he has fangs and claws. and if they're not calling him a monster, they're being horny about him. which is fine. except when it's the only goddamn thing I SEE IN THE TAG DO YOU GUYS SEE MEN OF COLOR AND JUST LOSE ALL SENSE OF CIVILITY COME ON.

Sorry. sorry.

I think it's been so long since the movie came out that people have absorbed the jokes and horny and lost the plot, you know?

cause the Miguel O'Hara tag is filled to the brim with x readers and hornyposting and people making fun of miguel for having PTSD so I just kinda miss critical thinking skills a little bit. I get the jokes. I understand them. but I feeeeeel like Miguel's actual character is getting lost in the sauce.

Yes, Miles is 15. But to Miguel, this 15 year old is trying to go back and kill 7 billion people. an entire multiverse. that's what he thinks. The needs of the many, right? Too many people have boiled it down to "Miguel hates Miles for not wanting his dad to die" which makes my autistic little brain sob.

yeah ok I care too much about a fictional guy whatever but he is not getting the justice he deserves from ANYONE in this goddamn house.

[paintbrushnebula]

Rewatching the ATSV teaser trailer from all the way back in 2020 is wild because like it's a crazy early version of the scene where Gwen shows up in Miles' bedroom and like, the characters behaved so differently, like ANIMATED so differently from the final version. Miles is awkward and tripping over himself like he's still that meek 14 year old and Gwen's the one who's super chill and confident like it's nothing big that she's there (which as we see in the final vers. is actually just a poorly executed act of hers)