#ageist casting

[fandomshatewomen]

Empress Josephine was six years older than Napoleon, it was incredibly scandalous and affected their marriage. So what does Hollywood do? Cast an actress 13 years younger than Joaquin Phoenix to play his wife. I’m so tired of Hollywood bs

But don't you know??? The only valid women are young and therefore sexually available /sarcasm

On a more serious note, I feel you! The lack of imagination from these casting directors is just plain silly. Did a little research (like 5min... and I'm not a professional casting director) and some closer to age-appropriate options they absolutely could have used:

Jennifer Connelly

Marisa Tomei

Catherine Zeta Jones

Rachel Weisz

Robin Wright

Ashley Judd

Tea Leoni

Jennifer Beals

Helena Bonham Carter

(selection criteria was white/white-passing women who have worked with brown/darker hair)

I know age bias/perception works oppositely for men vs women but like... Joaquin Phoenix is 48 but frankly I could believe he's 55-58ish, and any one of these women absolutely has the resume to be his co-lead. I struggle to imagine a reason not to cast them that doesn't boil down to plain ol' misogyny.

mod dyr

[seastarlily]

The main voice cast of “SpongeBob SquarePants” over the years (Part 1).

[spacerockfloater]

Why the fuck does Laena Velaryon, who is canonically younger than Rhaenyra Targaryen in the show, look like a fucking 20-year-old in episode 5 while Rhaenyra, her elder, still looks fucking 13? Why the actual fuck did they change the YOUNGER girl’s actress and made her look older, but it’s okay for Rhaenyra to continue looking like a preteen? I’ll tell you why.

They’re trying to distract us from the fact that creepy ass Daemon is courting a 14-year-old. A FOURTEEN YEAR OLD. Rhaenyra is 15 in episode 1 and Laena is 12, meaning they have a 3 year age gap. Then, Viserys tells Rhaenyra that she must marry since she’s 17 now, making Laena 14, maybe 15 at best. So they obviously can’t afford having Daemon thirst over a child again, therefore this is a shitty attempt to cover up the fact that Laena still is a very fucking young child.

HBO what is this? Why do your casting choices indicate that you’re trying to use some kind of ageist technique to manipulate your viewers? Why are the supposedly good guys, Rhaenyra and her children, portrayed by very young actors? Is this to show how innocent and pure they are? Why are the characters who are supposedly evil, Aegon and Aemond, or the character for whom we shouldn’t worry too much about since she’s just a tool for Daemon’s story line to develop, Laena, portrayed by obviously older actors even though they’re all supposed to be kids? Because the youth = good people and old = bad people analogy is fucking gross and lowkey paedophilic. Not to mention how weird it is to make all the black girls in the show look like fucking grown ups. What kind of racist bullshit is this?

I can’t understand HBO’s decisionmaking for the love of me. Like, on the one hand, it’s so obvious that they’re forcing Daemon and Rhaenyra down our throats, to the point that I actually laughed out loud when the show runner said “he doesn’t get why people like Daemon”. Like, my guy, you MADE the show. You made him look like an appealing, dangerous, sexy, strong, victorious and mysterious man, so what do you mean you don’t get the appeal? On the other hand though, most of the actions that they allow Daemon to perform are so horrifying that it makes it impossible for a sane person to stand beside him and defend him. Like, they try to sugarcoat that he’s an abusive piece of shit yeah, but they somehow don’t shy away from the fact that he’s terrible? Are they doing both of these things on purpose? Are they trying to challenge the viewer, to show us how abusers, despite being openly deranged, still have their way of dazzling their victims, the average person, and hypnotising them with their charm? Is Daemon doing to us (and by us I mean you Daemon stans, not me, stay safe though) what he’s doing to Rhaenyra and Laena? Are the show producers testing the average viewer’s intelligence and ability to recognise an abuser? Will there be a lesson to be learned?

I would like to hope so but I highly doubt it, because while one could support this theory by arguing that changing Laena’s actress is an attempt to mask Daemon’s degenerative nature a bit so that it isn’t completely obvious that he’s a bad man, someone else could counter this argument by saying that we’ve already seen Daemon groom a minor so this wouldn’t be something new. We’ve seen him do much more violent crimes actually, so why shy away from the fact he’s a groomer when we are already aware of this? Idk man, I really want to think that HBO is trying to make us see that Daemon is an evil person, but then indirectly glorifying him constantly makes me believe they just want people to root for him.

P.S. I may anger a lot of people by saying this, so I’ll make myself clear by stating that I love and greatly respect actors who specialise in portraying evil characters, because doing so and not losing yourself is a challenge (*cough* Leto *cough*) but if done correctly, it’s a true showcase of one’s talent and hard work. Lee, De Niro, Hopkins, Bardem and Rickman are just a few to name. However, Matt Smith has never rubbed me the right way. No hate to the guy, I don’t even know him, but I’ve seen him play the villain in three separate occasions (HOTD, Last Night in Soho, Morbius) and I just get these weird vibes, but I usually told myself it’s just my imagination running wild. However, I recently found out that Smith claimed that Daemon is a loyal man who loves deeply and that his “heir for a day” brothel feast was his way of honouring Aema, which really disturbed me for obvious reasons. I don’t know if he said this because he’s trying to defend his character and by extension himself, or if he just wants to promote the show, or if he doesn’t understand Daemon or if he funnily enough has fallen victim to his own character’s charm and I don’t care because it is a dangerous thing to say. Painting this character, the arrogant, obnoxious, self serving, people slaughtering, wife murdering, backstabbing, abusing, grooming, lying, manipulating, war criminal of a man, in such a positive light while being a man yourself, knowing that most of this character’s supporters are young impressionable women who just find him hot, makes me lowkey wanna cover my drink in his presence, I don’t know.

[basmathgirl]

I feel bad for Donna that she is stuck with the sad old weasel version of the Doctor. The way she looked at Fifteen!!! Overall Fifteen is probably the most conventionally attractive, the most outright sexy and fit Doctor (ever?). Not saying the others weren’t attractive at all, but back then they portrayed the Doctor more in the nerdy/ geeky-attractive kinda way. I think considering Fifteen’s charm, charisma, humour and looks, after his run he might end up as “The Sexy Doctor”. I know Donna would agree. In general the new TARDIS-Team with Millie Gibson, Varada Sethu and of course Ncuti Gatwa is ridiculously good looking. I guess New New Who doesn’t allow “ugly”/ normal looking people any longer. 😂

Hello kind Anon

I get the feeling that you are a great deal younger than I am (and rather ageist), because I know the "sad old weasel version of the Doctor"

will be only a temporary situation. Soon, he'll be back to his cheerful, pre-bigeneration self. Look at how delighted he was to be reuninited with Donna

And Donna doesn't seem to mind at all with being 'stuck' with him.

especially when her old best friend ocassionally looks at her like this:

Even the Not-Thing!Doctor knew how he felt about her.

I totally agree that the Fifteenth Doctor is a very attractive man/being. His good looks, kindness, intelligence and charm won us all over instantly upon his emergence.

Oh yes, he knows what he's doing to us.

But as for "the most outright sexy and fit Doctor (ever?)" well... I was around for the anouncement of Peter Davison as the Fifth Doctor; and Paul McGann as the Eighth Doctor. Both were generally considered very fine specimens of manhood, back in the day! And truth be told, I still get a thrill out of seeing them in anything. Sexiness is a matter of personal taste, after all. Plus, while I appreciate Ncuti Gatwa visually (among other things), I feel he is rather too young for me. I'm more likely to pat his cheek and try to feed him up.

Grandmothers, eh?! What are we like.

We've only had one episode of RTD's latest Season 1 run (if we ignore the 60th anniversary specials) so as far as "I guess New New Who doesn’t allow “ugly”/ normal looking people any longer. 😂" is concerned, it's a bit hard to tell how influential the move to Disney+ has over the general casting. Especially when you try to dodge any spoilers. Not that Moffat was immune to casting based on looks rather than talent, but I am expecting to see more conventially attractive people to appear in the coming episodes.

Of course, I'm hoping that the old trend of hiring decent actors rather than model/actors will be maintained, but you never know how that extra streaming coinage will be. The casting of attractive companions like Millie Gibson and Varada Sethu was no surprise at all. *mentally beats the 'something for the dads' thinking to a pulp* In fact, it's refreshing when that doesn't happen.

Personally, I want RTD to create those DW spinoffs he jokingly referred to when the Disney+ announcement was made. Those tend to be pretty good and/or interesting.

In conclusion, while I really love the new, Fifteenth Doctor and look forward to seeing his adventures.

Donna certainly appreciated his physique and good looks, but I could never turn my back on the Fourteenth Doctor. I mean... Just look at him

He needs our special love. Especially because he loves and adores Donna. In the way she deserves to be.

[limesandcoconuts]

Trust me when I say i totally understand where people are coming from and i would totally agree!...if not for 2 things:

1) the animation changed. Httyd 2 had a very gritty tone to it and that reflected in the characters. Httyd 3 has a softer tone, also reflected in the characters.

2) like I said, i would agree with what people are saying for aging down Valka when she's supposed to be like 40 something...except everyone in Httyd 3 got a glow up (mostly because of the animation style. I also think yknow, it's the finale. They want to go out looking great. Nothing really wrong with that.) Like if it was just Valka, I could see where the problem is but because it's everyone, it doesn't feel like they "de-aged" Valka bc middle ages mother's are "ugly", it feels more like something that was done as a whole - if that makes any sense. If everyone gets a glow up in Httyd 3, obviously they wanted everyone to look their best, nothing to do with beauty standards honestly.

Like I said, trust me I can totally see where ppl are coming from and I'd probably understand if you disagree, I mean I've had my fair share of problems with beauty standards don't you worry. But i feel like people are looking into this specifically a little too far. Same thing with Astrid in Httyd 3. Hiccup can have a glow up but she can't?

And i know Hollywood is brutal towards any woman over 38 (have you seen who they cast as mothers nowadays?? Fucking ridiculous!) So like I said, i can easily see how this would hurt some people. I just think in this case, there is a genuine reason for it - the biggest being animation bc that's a technical thing, not an ageist thing.

Also in Httyd 2 Valka had been fending for herself, living with dragons in an ice cave for 20 years, when she moves into a viking village again I'm sure her self-care/health went up a bit. Though this is a pretty weak argument but I just thought I would mention it.

To be fair tho they could've at least given her some wrinkles in Httyd 3 🫤

Feel free to disagree - politely 🤨

[justanothercinemaniac]

I don’t see people talking about the whitewashing in Maestro so I will.

Maestro is a movie about Leonard Bernstein, an iconic film composer who was also Jewish. It’s been criticized for casting Bradley Cooper (who is not Jewish) as Bernstein and wearing a fake nose to play the part (which some have referred to as “jew-face”). Bradley Cooper also directs the movie, but there’s been a lot of discussion about him. I’m here to talk about Carey Mulligan.

Felicia Montealegre was a Latina actress (Costa Rican) who married Leonard Bernstein. But instead of casting a Latina actress to play a real life Latina, they cast Carey Mulligan. AND NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT IT.

I don’t know what else to say about this except what the hell? What year is it? Are we still doing this? You have a million incredibly talented Latinas in Hollywood, but you decide to whitewash a real life film icon instead??? And instead of talking about how shitty that is, you reward that racism with praise and a Golden Globe nomination? Why are we still doing this in 2023???????

Not to mention the real Montealegre was only 4 years younger than Bernstein but Mulligan is 10 years younger than Bradley Cooper, continuing the misogynistic/ageist Hollywood trend seen in Oppenheimer and Napoleon of portraying real life women as way younger than they really were.

Anyways, representation matters, latine representation matters, and fuck whitewashing.

[my-mt-heart]

I completely agree with this quote. I also think it’s worth noting that most of the debates are centered around whether or not Carol’s age makes her a suitable love interest for Daryl, and AMC are the ones constantly fueling them. After establishing Caryl as one of the most impactful relationships on the show in the early seasons, they stopped being vocal about them as a potential ship as time went on and the characters got older. Whether they were trying to follow the traditional formula of the will-they-won’t-they by playing up the mystery or they were accommodating personal hangups (🤨), the discrimination still managed to show itself to viewers.

They can’t resist teasing relationships between Daryl and younger women with any hair color other than gray, but seem hellbent on reducing the only relationship that’s actually earned the big love story to subtext. They’re leaning into the idea that it’s more acceptable for older men to be with younger women rather than women their own age, and because of that, they encourage some viewers to spread ageist rhetoric on the internet, then encourage them some more by remaining silent when Melissa, not just Carol, bears the brunt of the attacks.

If they really want to show viewers that they stand up for Carol (and Melissa by extension), tweeting about what a badass she is won’t cut it. Not only does a romantic relationship with Daryl fulfill Carol’s arc, letting her find what she couldn’t in her old life, it lets us celebrate middle-aged characters getting together and exploring their lives together. So just like the original Caryl spinoff presumably planned to do, S2 of the reinvented Caryl spinoff should ideally give us that payoff plus verbal support from AMC, EPs, and the cast.

In the meantime, I highly recommend reading the rest of this article. We need more voices out there praising Melissa for bringing her own value to the character and not letting her arc get weighed down by a number❤️

[nihilnothings]

While I enjoyed yesterday's interlude it didn't expand what we already know of Kana and Akane's Rivalry

Don't get me wrong I appreciated the appearance of Akane after being gone for so long and the banter between the two but compared to the two previous interludes I don't think it expanded or recontextualized their character or some of the interactions within the series, making the filler just filler. While I know the purpose of the interludes were meant to pad out time until we get back to the main plot, the previous two interludes kinda elevated itself a bit from typical filler by taking a deeper dive on their characters.

Kana and Akane's interlude showed what we know about them, they don't really get along, but Akane has tried to make attempts in doing so but Kana's too stubborn to acknowledge it.

This in stark comparison to what Melt and Memcho's interlude that expanded more about them.

Memcho's Interlude: Deepens a Past Scene

Memcho's interlude reveals more about her past which parallels Miyako's own background: they both had dreams of entering certain parts of the entertainment industry but hesitated due to society's ageist beliefs on certain occupations, only to reveal that deep down, they still wished to chase that dream. Knowing more of Memcho's background deepens the reasoning on why Miyako gave her leeway to join B-Komachi, because she too was in a similar place and didn't want her to experience the same thing when Ichigo had given her a chance. It enhances the scene by making it more heartwarming in hindsight.

Melt's Interlude: Expanding his Character

Since the "Sweet Today" arc, Melt has been trying to grow beyond his pretty boy image as he felt that it wasn't for him, he even tried to fiddle with music, which his boss rejected. Even when he became better in acting during Tokyo Blade, the pretty boy label still latched his career by the netizens. It's a bit bittersweet to know that labels don't come off as easily, a real time thing that's often referred to as being type-casted, but instead of giving into despair he tried to own the pretty-boy image through his own terms. If people want a pretty boy, then he'd be the best pretty boy that he can be, a fitting and satisfying conclusion to the problem he's facing. While being a pretty-boy often involves looks, it also carries a character of charisma and confidence to the label, therefore Melt isn't necessarily stuck being just a pretty face if he's able to bring these qualities to other aspects of entertainment.

Conclusion

It's a shame that one of the prominent characters didn't get an interlude which expands or contextualizes events within the canon. The filler was short and fun as a way to showcase more scenes of the rivalry but I wish it could've been more like the previous two, so it wasn't completely filler.

[hils79]

Hils Watches The King's Avatar - Ep 11

Oh no she's so sad that her girlfriend stood her up :(

But now she's happy that she gets to see her idol. Except her idol is currently having dinner with her girlfriend and the rest of his adopted gamer family

The sheer brass balls of this dude to walk onto a stage in front of a bunch of people who were expecting to see Ye Xiu and try to justify to his fans why you fired him

YEAH YOU TELL HIM!

Technically true but only because you replaced him as captain

DOES IT LOOK LIKE SHE IS HEALING ON HER OWN

I have concerns about his glass washing method. No soap and just using his hands

Aww he made her laugh by being a dork

I'm really distracted by his hoodie with the giant phone receiver on the back

I love that he is comforting her about the specific thing she is sad about (him leaving his pro team after 10 years) but as far as she knows he's just being hypothetical

Wait, I thought he was the captain

That is a 40 year old man! I'm not saying this in ageist way. I'm in my 40s myself. But he is so much older than all the other players. I assumed like any other sport that after a while your body goes beyond being able to play professionally.

Also, I know him from My Roommate is a Detective

Oh, hello. Who is this?

Oh he is definitely some variety of neurodivergent and I love him

Oh my god look at him in his lil sweater

Ah, okay, so Team Tyranny's captain is trying to contend with the fact that he's older. Okay, I love this. I thought they'd just done that thing where they cast someone older to play a teenager. I'm rooting for you, dude who is my age!

Of course he has history with Ye Xiu. Everyone does.

I love him

Yeah, I lowkey ship it

[i-want-my-iwtv]

Bring back Antonio Banderas as Armand for this Daniel Molloy!

Ok but hear me out: 

Antonio was criticized as being too old to play Armand in 1994, but now, this could be a fire casting choice! Just listen to that music and gaze onto their faces and tell me that these silver foxes wouldn’t be magnificent. I am dead serious, this is not a joke. This older Armand chasing this older Daniel all over the place, spoiling him with fine dining and luxury hotels, sexytiems, etc. etc. 

🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥 🔥

If you don’t like this just admit you’re ageist (<--- ok that part is a joke!).

[albertserra]

if the golden bachelor guy was hot i would make a post like 'put me on the golden bachelor ill be the token gay because hes a little bit bisexual and ill ride his dick till it falls off and they cancel the season without telling anyone why and theyll forever think its because society was too ageist for it and write thinkpieces about my casting for playing into age gap tropes but also being progressive and inclusive and maybe i really do just like older men and thats okay' . but he's not so

[fandomshatewomen]

When it comes to the House of the Dragon casting with the age difference between Alicent and her kids I'd say the casting of who plays the kids is were the error happened, maybe they should have cast someone a little older for Alicent but 29 year old playing a 35 year old isn't too bad, like it could have been worse. The kids tho are supposed to be 19, 17 and 16. The actor for the 19 year old is 28, one year younger than the actress for Alicent, 17 year old is played by a 24 year old actress and 16 year old is played by a 26 year old. Why is it so hard to cast age appropriate actors, the PJO show did it, the ATLA show did it as far as I know.

I don't watch House of the Dragon so thanks for the context!

The pattern with using mid-20s actors to play mid-teens characters is so odd to me like sure I get that labor laws significantly limit stuff with minors (AS THEY SHOULD! LABOR LAWS ARE IMPORTANT!) but like, they really couldn't find a few 18-22 year olds with young faces who can passably recite lines? Really? Be serious

I'm not saying that every British teenager who wants to be an actor is gonna be Dev Patel or Tom Holland but at this point it's like these casting directors don't even try lmao

mod dyr

[littlefanthings]

Let’s be honest Pedro was not in the suit probably at all this season because he chose a different role, which yeah sure good for him. But season two, when he spent more time in the suit it felt different. The vocals matched the performance so much better

I’m starting to understand why Branden keeps referring to himself at the Mandalorian seeing as he does most of the work

I agree that that when Pedro is actually in the suit the voice and movements are more cohesive, though to be fair I think a lot of Mando’s lines (if not all) wind up having to be ADRed anyway since that helmet can’t be helpful in terms of getting quality sound recordings. I don’t know 100% on that, I’m too lazy to try and look it up, frankly. But yes, the performance is better when the person speaking is the one also making the decisions on physicality. It all connects. However, for the most part, even if it would be better to have one guy doing the whole thing - they still do a great job working together to make the different performances mesh together into one believable character. That’s a lot harder to do than it looks.

Pedro also may have spent some time in the suit during breaks from TLoU’s year-long filming schedule, but yeah, he’s likely not physically playing Mando much in S3.

But look, I’m not going to begrudge an actor work, especially an actor who got their big break later in the game than most. Hollywood is ageist as fuck and there’s a ticking clock on being able to do certain types of roles.

The options here would have been:

• Pedro doesn’t do The Last of Us and is physically involved as Mando more often, which is great for Mando fans but sad for Pedro and TLoU because he’s doing an incredible, possibly Emmy-worthy job as Joel and it sounds like it was an amazing and unique experience.

• Pedro leaves Mando entirely to do TLoU, very sad for Mando fans because we love Pedro and it would leave the entire show in jeopardy - they’d have to recast and/or drastically change the whole framework of the show. Not easy or preferable for anyone.

• Pedro is physically there for both Mando and TLoU, but that would mean we probably wouldn’t get more Mando for at least another year since TLoU took an entire year to film in Alberta.

• They work things out the best they can so that he can do both roles without massively delaying anything, which is what they did, and I think it was the best option for everyone.

When they cast Pedro for Mando they knew up front that availability was going to be an issue and agreed to work around it. They would likely have the same issue with any popular actor. The show is uniquely positioned to easily use doubles and stunt performers since the main character is literally forbidden to show his face. Any actor worth their salt would be insane to not take advantage of the amount of flexibility that offers. And even if Pedro was in the suit all the time, Brendan and Lateef would still be stepping in a lot for stunt work.

What’s fascinating and wonderful to me is how The Mandalorian cast and crew is being so straightforward about the fact that stunt performers are doing a lot of the heavy lifting and bringing them into the limelight. A lot of shows would - and do - try to completely obfuscate and distract their audience from the fact that stunt performers and doubles are used. That really sucks for stunt performers who will literally risk their bodies and lives for this work without getting the credit they deserve. They don’t even get included in the major award shows despite the fact that a lot of film and TV would be impossible without them.

So yeah, Brendan IS the Mandalorian. And so is Pedro and so is Lateef. And if more shows and movies were honest about it, we’d get to see that a lot of these kind of superhero and crazy action shows are really an amalgamation of multiple people working together to create one character. And the fact that they can make it work and keep us all immersed and feeling like it’s one person is actually extremely cool.

In conclusion: Teamwork makes the dream work. And means we get a lot more really great films and shows than we would without it.

[lemonhemlock]

I’m looking forward to Gayle Rankin as Alys, she has a lot of screen presence and seems a good fit for a smaller part like this, where she can make an instant impression. I’m sad Alys is not older, but I couldn’t hold out hope for these execs to okay casting a woman in her 40s if she’s going to have love scenes. Sadly doesn’t seem like something they would do 😔 But I’m also curious how much time we will get in Harrenhal before Aemond even takes it. If they’re currently filming there, I would be shocked for him to be in the Riverlands before season two is over. Would we see her and Daemon interacting first? Could be interesting!

it's a decision i understand from a PR perspective (it's not just tv execs who are ageist, the general public is, too), but i can't help but feel a little apathetic about it. it's not like there aren't any talented 40 year old actresses out there that could have slayed in this role. if you would have shown me a picture of ewan & gayle together before this show i wouldn't have guessed they were supposed to be an age-gap couple

i haven't personally seen gayle in anything but the casting directors have been fantastic so far so they must have their reasons for picking her. she'll have many moments to shine in the show, as i expect aemond & alys to become the next daemyra. however, my personal bet/hope is that S2 ends with rook's rest, so that would mean they get to meet in S3. so, agreed, alys and daemon interacting would be really interesting on screen

a lot of people interpreted emily's audition as her mocking daemon but i kind of got the impression she was negging him a little. i've always seen her as a free agent, ambitious and out for herself first and foremost, i don't see why she would intentionally antagonize her dragonlord occupier or think it a good strategy to lecture him on morality points lol

[mzannthropy]

The FML of being a heretic - Sam Claflin edition

you read a popular book that you loathe so much it makes you throw your kindle against the wall, and it becomes your most hated book of all time - Sam plays the main male character of the adaptation of this book (Me Before You)

his best known role is in the movie adaptation of a very popular YA dystopian series that you have an extremely difficult relationship with - and worse, his character doesn't even get a happy ending (Hunger Games)

you watch a popular romcom with him as the male lead and end up hating it with your whole being (Love Rosie)

he gets cast in a film that is a pastiche of one of your favourite things, Sherlock Holmes--only for it to the be the most ridiculous, cartoonish version of a canon character for the sake of lifting up an OC teenage heroine--and worse, another popular actor gets glossed up while Sam is given an off-putting gross moustache (Enola Holmes)

he plays the main male lead in a TV show about a fictional rock'n'roll band, a role that he dedicates his whole self to, among other things learns to play a guitar for--only for the showrunners to focus obsessively on his relationship with his bandmate to the detriment of everything else, incl his character's marriage. Not only you are on the unpopular side of the shipping divide, but everything everyone talks about is the supposed "chemistry" with his co-star, whom you also end up disliking. To top this all off, where you expected at least some appreciation for Sam's efforts, you get ageist comments (Daisy Jones and the Six)

But hey, it's all just little things. There's still the dimples!

[fitzrove]

Elisabeth hot takes

- Young Sisi/old Sisi split casting is a bad idea, going forward they just need to cast people who have the range to play both roles like they've done before. The Schönbrunn concert split was legit just done because people/the press were sexist and ageist about Pia Douwes earlier and it sucks. (No hate to Abla Alaoui tho, she was great in the 2022 show and I hope she'll get to play the entire role someday)

- Mark Seibert's Tod isn't straight,,,,, masculine queer men exist irl, yall just need to stop basing your interpretation of him on the 2022 concert/the 2013 boot with him and Anton Z because that Schatten is giving us nothing fjkgkfödlfösö. It's fine to prefer other Tods for how they look/act but that doesn't mean the buff one is heterosexual. The directors have done him so dirty in recent years

- I've seen some people go "ooh what if they split up der Tod so that he was played by an actress for the Rudolf scenes" which,,,,,, why?? I'm all for woman tod but the idea of ONLY having her for Rudolf scenes to add more heterosexuality into the show is weird. I say have a woman Tod for literally everything else but for Schatten and Mayerling it's inexplicably Mark Seibert to make Rudolf extra gay<3 why not sinking world as well, FJ gets to be gay too

- The woobification of Elisabeth musical Rudolf is so important because a lot of Rudolf/Mayerling adaptations seem to focus on how violent and dangerous he is (because of mental illness). A musical can never capture the entire nuance of an actual person anyway, so I think it's fair that at least one of the many adaptations portrays him in a completely sympathetic light - important for mental health representation. Doesn't mean the fandom is completely unaware of his historical crimes (murder, arson and graverobbing gkfdfodlså).

- Society has progressed past the need to comment "Tod X is much better" on vids/pics/posts focused on Tod Y, or even saying "Tod Y sucks" on vids/pics/posts celebrating Tod X, it's annoying and exhausting. Plus, the euromusical world is so small that on Youtube especially the actors might actually see it (Máté Kamarás has). I'm going to go to the guilty person's house if it happens to him again

- Rudolf shouldn't take the melody in the Schatten chorus in productions, there's a reason he sings the harmony in the original (he's being manipulated/Tod is stoking his obsessions and anxieties). Ofc it's more fun for the actor to sing the melody but they can do that in concerts XD EXCEPT Lander van Nuffelen can sing whatever he wants<333

- tod x rudolf is a good ship BECAUSE it's problematic 🥰

- Just because I ship Tod and Rudolf doesn't mean I want actual productions to do that. (Shipping is different than having "seduction" as a thematic element. Not that we're in much danger of that though lmao, the onstage romanticisation literally only happens with Tod and Sisi.) Humanizing der Tod too much (unless it's in a "he was an undomesticated panther but he's turning into a real boy<33" máté kamarás type character arc way or in a "he used to be cold and detached but is learning to have friends and feelings!!!" kaplyn way) takes away from the themes of the show, which to me (in productions) is much more important than ships. It's very rare to have a show be so deeply deconstructive (of historical figures, of "love story" conventions) and that needs to be treasured!!

- For this reason it's absolutely crucial that the show ends with Tod laying Elisabeth on the floor (and that he drops Rudolf after Mayerling)