#also in the genocide route she's the reason people survived

[the-n3w3st-g1rl-g1rl]

I don't trust people who shit on Alphys

[rosehippiefield]

I saw somebody has done Yttd cast in Undertale before but I want to share some ideas about which Yttd character could act as which Undertale character. Of course, there's too many monsters so this is mainly about bosses and minibosses. Also this is long and yttd characters are sometimes repeated as they can serve several roles.

Sara is great for the role of Frisk simply because she has capacity both for sparing and killing. Goddess of Victory or Angel of Death, who will she choose to be? And without a doubt Sara is DETERMINED (Or there's another variant, Kanna, a kind child that will find approach to everybody. However, I don't see anybody trying to kill her there, as well as her even having a thought about killing.)

Kai can be Toriel for several reasons: he is housemaker, he is tied to Sara, so in this AU he can become her guardian for some time. Moreover, Kai has notable bond with Q-Taro and Gashu, both of which could fit Asgore. Imagine him betraying Asunaro and making sure humans survive. Or arguing with Q-Taro about morals.

Depending on the story Shin could match Napstablook when he's being his meek shy self. Just listening to music, not feeling up to anything, creating akward situations and lying on the floor. I can picture him doing it. Additionally, Ranmaru has similar vibe. Not the type to communicate with many, true introvert with deep insecurities... Why not?

Keiji is definitely Sans and I can't see it otherwise (well there could be other options but still I love Keiji as Sans). He is constantly tired, a bit lazy, has a fair share of mysteries, same ambience I would say. Keiji loves pushing responsibility onto Sara due to his trauma and consequent self-hate, Sans does nothing in genocide until the very end wheт majority is dead. Plus who is better to judge our protagonist than a policeman?

Joe is Papyrus, I don't make the rules... Well, Gin could act as Papurus as well, but let's at first talk about Joe. He is nice and funny, he befriends Sara easily, he literally can't kill her. He can have a brotherly relationship with Keiji considering "Mr. Policeman is Joe's dad" theory. The only downside is Papyrus can be killed and I don't see Sara killing her bestie in any way, even for survival. Maybe he is a doll and no longer a human?..

As to Gin, he is better as Monster kid in my mind. Curious, energetic teenager that admires strong, reliable and absolutely cool Reko (who's Undyne). Gin really trusts Sara, he is naїve to the point of believing her even in genocide route. Or maybe an annoing dog is also appliable, as Gin's stims include barking (and his desing, his Meow chan that is allegedly a dog) and the dogsong is perfect theme for Gin.

So, Reko as Undyne. Strong in every sense, fighting for her people's sake, brave, plays piano... Not to mention her relationship with Nao-the-Alphys. The thing is, would Reko kill a human for her people? Maybe not, she is quite kind. Especially if said human is Sara. Unless there is some misunderstanding... (I actually would argue Sara is a better fit for Undyne as she is samurai woman fighter type and she can be colder).

I haven't mention dummies before, but I totally picture Anzu as Temmie. Cute, sweet, funny, just good old Temmie.

I nerly forgot about Mad Dummy! In my book Ranger fits the bill here: an artifitial being that is really jealous of humans and hates them for it. He's sarcastic, extremelly rude, ready to kill. Also imagine that in the Ruins we encounter Dummy of Sei that Kai is keeping due to grief and memories, but now it ends up here as Ranger with consciousness but no soul.

Then we move to Hotland. Nao is a good Alphys in my book: a bit dependent, insecure, still striving to become better. Plus I want to give Mishima a Gaster role, so they share connection. (On the second thought, Safalin would make a compelling Alphys as well: she is actually a scientist, she has far more self-deprication as crying doll, she has many sceletons in the closet with questionable experiments).

There's little info on Gaster as well as on Mishima. Royal scientist whose genuis was unparalleled and that fell in lava (burning again?). Though Meister, whose role is still unclear, may look more like Gaster and have the same air of mystery.

For Muffet there are two worthy candidates: Mai and Maple. Both are acquainted with cuisine, both are extra sweet with their words, I think both can be persuasive about the product (it's Mai's profession, and you can't refuse to drink tea in disscussion room so Maple's capable of it as well). And of course you should never underestimate either of girls.

Mettaton... the star of the show, daring, flashy, attractive... Alice was in the band, his desing (in usual sprites just hair) is quite colorful, not to mention his physique, so why not? That would mean interesting relationship with Reko, who's his neighbor. Plus he could be a doll as Mettaton is an artifitially created robot. Maybe Nao/Safalin/whoever's Alphys created him to help Reko, they reconciled and Alice found his own path.

We are nearing the end. Asgore is morally gray character who killed children, regrets it but ready to repeat the deed for the sake of his country. As was mentioned previosly, either Q-Taro or Gashu could fit his role: Q-Taro because of appearance, kindhearted nature but ability to commit not the most ethical actions. I can also insert joke about killing kids (no matter how you interpret Q-Taro's words in the first main game, part of fandom will bring it up). Gashu had done even more morally reprehensible things for his "community" Asunaro. Plus, Gashu literally had a foster child that died (Sei, Ranger's inspiration).

I didn't mention Flowey because his story blossoms only in the end and depending on the person I replace him with the story becomes drastically different. The first one is Shin because firstly, I am biased toward him, secondly, Asriel essentially is bound to return to his flower form (kind of 0% to be truly happy), thirdly, they were both inicially kinder and due to horrible circumstances became worse. But yet they can become better. Moreover, roses. Maybe Kanna here was killed, and from sheer grief Shin turned into a rose? Alternatively, Ranger matches as well: he can't feel positive emotions just as Flowey doesn't feel them (I don't remember specifics but something along these lines). Plus, Sei was killed being a small kid just like Asriel and he has familial connections to Kai-the-Toriel and Gashu-the-Asgore (this sounds extra weird, nobody here is shipped of course. Just in case).

What about the souls and remaining dead people? I think some of the dead could be these souls: Kurumada as Bravery (he is boxer and this soul has gloves), Megumi or Mr. Policeman as Justice (police is supposed to make sure justice prevails), Hayasaka as Perseverance (he looks a bit nerdy and has glasses), Hinako as... Patience? (the real one), Kanna if dead can definitely be Kindness, Kugie as Integrity? Honestly, we know little about these guys so the arrangement can vary a lot.

Finaly, Chara. Maybe I'll do their character an injustice, but imagine them as Midori. When Frisk Sara is in the end of genocide, she sees Midori, a demon that is resurrected by her cruelty. He enjoyed every bit of it. Plus, then dynamic Chara Midori and Asriel Shin becomes quite intriguing (and messed up). Or maybe Kanna could be Chara as well, a kid that met a friend (or foster brother. Oh even a real one) in the underground and then died.

[cartoonedin]

sapphire dorm + video games hcs. probably ooc but idc <3

sophia touches grass too much to be considered a gamer girl but after rory introduces her to first-person shooters? you're dead. you're gone. you're her dad you're reporting her but she'll never be dead or gone because pro teams all over the country are trying to recruit her. which country. who knows. she only plays at her friends' houses on saturdays because she doesn't want her brother to snitch on her swearing but sometimes she uses her 'oops i fell off a cliff again and need to call for help' projection and gets banned from those houses too. she and her horse-poop-covered hands hate mobile games. her parents are the reason new candy crush levels are still being added but she has neither the patience nor the long-term planning skills for level one. did the genocide route on undertale in record time because she thought it was how the game was meant to be played. into red dead redemption for the horses and the bearded cowboys who learn about fatherhood via gunfights.

ava is a handheld console girlie. if pokemon nurse were an actual profession she'd be employee of the month thirteen times a year. her animal crossing island has a better economy than every continent combined. that being said the day her brothers introduced her to warioware was the day the world was introduced to true bloodshed. has broken at least one controller because of sheer emotional attachment to a cute character. treats pikmin like a survival horror game and dead space like a sci-fi romcom. got the pacifist ending in undertale and does not understand why other rpgs don't have the mercy option. unless rory's in the game at which point she brings out the laser guns or whatever to get back at him for making her reveal her middle name. you know he's let that slip to more than one call of duty lobby ok let a girl live.

layla's favourite game is google chrome. she's boring and i love her for that. she speedruns minesweeper and solitaire to get her mind off particularly devastating biographies. she's friends with everyone's parents on candy crush and scrabble. she could be a gm on chess.com but she overthinks her moves to the point of losing on time despite playing as white. she's almost been hacked so many times because she can't resist correcting bad moves on word formation advertisements and gets led to online casino #infinity or something. she has a lifelong streak on every new york times game except vertex because you cannot tell me wildstar's constant use of her magic didn't destroy her eyesight even further.

isabel puts the bro in smash bros. rotates between king k. rool, sonic, and greninja because she has a brand and it must be tangential to adhd medication. in the same vein as sophia i think she touches grass too much to be considered a gamer girl but she makes rory keep up with madden and fifa news just to figure out if she's been added to the latest installment. she has a skateboard on her dorm wall but never uses it so i'm thinking she played through the og trilogy of tony hawk's games as a kid and echoed every voice line to the point of perfect memorisation. take the word dude away from her and she's mute. also i think she discovered happy wheels on her mom's computer and ruined several important business presentations that way.

valentina is a slightly grown ipad kid. i'm sorry but you can't tell me she didn't steal her style from dress to impress. also she rates everyone one star on those games not because she's a corrupt voter but because she has a sixth sense for when a bitch is hiding bacon hair beneath a hundred layers of sparkles. up there with isabel in terms of lacking screen time video game wise because i truly believe her family would spend their money on better (read: elite-r) past times but she 1000% plays the sims. one world is for planning fashion moments and carrying on the digital furi bloodline. one world is for drowning people by deleting their pool ladders and saying "not now sweetie mommy's cyberbullying the mayor" to her baby who's on fire.

rory's room looks like a gamestop. idc about his canon phone case he is SILLY. he will play anyone in smash as long as it looks funny next to the other character but he has a soft spot for kirby, yoshi, zero suit samus (isabel side eyes him very hard for this at first but it's still a very gay choice i promise) and wii fit trainer. his personality is held together by goat simulator, untitled goose game, and donut county. also duct tape and blue raspberry gum. he trolls a little (a lot) on first person shooters and mmorpgs mostly so he can pretend with an ounce of plausible deniability that he's just having a fun unserious time when sophia and/or ava beat his ass at both even though they're on the same team.

[meglyfer]

Some character info of my UT AU

Alhpys

Lost her tail as a child because of the last human before Frisk, and replaced it with a robotic one She's not a fan of humans, and is an absolute asshole to Frisk in all three routes. Every single challenged in Hotland has been put there by her to piss off the human and feed her own entertainment (She says this the first time they met) She is the Royal Scientist, the Regional Commander of Hotland (More on what are Regional Commanders and Peace Keepers at the end of the post), and the main provider of safety to monsters, making her the fourth most politically powerful person in the Underground Her personality is mostly the same to that of the original Alphys, but more secure about her abilities and sarcasting (And an absolute bitch towards humans, god I love her)

Sans

Some real nice human who was passing by Snowdin gifted him a good 'ol nice bullet (He got shot in the fucking head) ("Meg, how did Sans survive if he only has 1hp" For plot reasons, let's say he has more than 1hp, either way you're gonna kill him with one hit on the genocide route) As you may imagine, being shot in the head does not bring you any health benefits, quite the opposite actually. He may have miraculously survived, but now he has vestibular dysfunction, which brings him a bunch of struggles:

This is also why most of the time Sans is seen using a cane, walking sometimes gets a bit difficult for him, so he uses a cane for support. Because of all this people sometimes treat him like he's made out of glass and may break at any time. He understands their worries and where they come from, but he doesn't like people babying him all the time, it makes him feel like a rag people carry around rather than a person. He has like a thousand jobs and only gets paid on one. He is: · Alhpys' laboratory partner (Part time job, payed) · Casual comedian at Grillby's (Sometimes gets tipped by customers) · Honorary Peace Keeper (Works only when available and refuses to accept any payment) · Sentinel for humans (Payed with Toriel's jokes) · Sometimes offers himself as babysitter (Refuses to accept payment) · Ocationally sells hotdogs · Probably forgetting another job (Yes, he partly does all this to prove that he doesn't need people constantly taking care of him and that he can do stuff on his own) He hates humans (How could he not), but is a fair man, plus he made a promise. He is not to kill any humans that may fall in the Underground unless they are proven to be a threat to monsters Is more passive-agressive towards Frisk than the original Sans

Papyrus

The nice human that gifted Sans a bullet also gifted him a bullet! (His left tibia is gone. Now he's got a piece of metal in replacement) Unlike his brother, he actually has some hope in humanity. He believes all humans deserve a chance, and a second chance, and maaaaaaaaaaaaybe a third chance. But once the limit is passed, he will kick your ass. Sorry man, but there's a point where even the Great Papyrus can't trust in you anymore He works as a Peace Keeper full time (Payed) Since I love putting my problems into characters, Paps sometimes has trouble speaking. It could be taking ages to say a word (Either new word or one he already knows and usually has no trouble with), randombly starting to stutter, arranging a sentence in a weird way, or just forgetting to say a whole word or sentence while speaking. It's not like this all the time, of course, most of the time he speaks just fine, but sometimes mouth not be mouthing, you know?

Gaster

He is (Or rather was) just a guy He used to be the Royal Scientist before Alphys, and good friends with Asgore and Toriel. He was kind, smart, and a bit clumsy. One of the best people to have as a friend He was a boss monster that has been around since even before the human monster war happened (He's old af) After a long time in the Underground, he realised he felt a bit lonely and decided to have children, Sans and Papyrus (How the hell did he have two sons without having a partner nor reproductive organs you ask? I don't fucking know, asexual reproduction or some shit). Just as he was an excelent friend, he was an amazing dad He was Alphys' and Sans' tutor when they started studying science and stuff Such a shame he died thought. Like, eight years before Frisk arrived. And such a shame Sans, his son, was the one who found him melting in his lab. Such a shame really, everyone missed the guy (Unlike in UT, people still remembers him)

PKD

The Peace Keepers Division (Or PKD) is a sub group of the Royal Guard, with a department on each region of the Underground, that acts as if they were the human police, and the Peace Keepers are the officers. Not only do they protect monster from any external threat, but they also solve conflicts between monsters (That's why they're the "Peace Keepers Division" and not something like the "Underground Defense Forces") Each region has a leader, or a "Regional Commander", to which all Peace Keepers report to. At the same time, all Regional Commanders report to the "Head Commander", aka the leader of the Royal Guard, aka Undyne. Regional Commanders must give her a daily report of what happened in each region and if there's been any incidents The commanders are: · Ruins - Toriel · Snowdin - Grillby ("Meg, didn't you mention that he still has his bar?" Yeah, well, he's both a bar owner and a police man) · Waterfall - Gerson · Hotland - Alphys There is no PKD department in New Home as the Royal Guard does that job (Also, fun fact, after building the whole system of PKD and the Royal Guard, because of some details that I skipped in this explenation, because of her position as Head Commander, Undyne can do a coup with little to no room for failure, she is so fucking powerful, and this is jusr politically speaking. What have I done)

[luanrabelo123]

Undertale and Deltarune theories…

I'm not going to lie, this whole Deltarune thing in the city in the world of light has something so strange about it... the monsters and that place seems to have something so negative and at the same time something mysterious about this small town... I'm not talking about that secret door, for some reason people might think there is a barrier there, but it really wouldn't make sense, because... the monsters wouldn't leave such an easy place and anyone has access to get there, without any problem and not even having guards around the place... if it was really a barrier, where the monsters apparently could have trapped the humans there, but it's something that doesn't make sense (from the facts I say above).

And also I don't think there is anything special about this door, there could only be something special about this place thanks to Kris because he has the ability to create a world of darkness, where probably Gaster could be there or else he will just leave the whole world in darkness and finally the "Roarning" will appear.

No, I don't think this door will involve either Gaster or Dess, because Dess would probably already be dead, considering that they also need food to survive in this universe. And even if it is the same as the Undertale universe, where the monsters need to have hope and everything else so that they can stay alive.

The only way Dess could have survived, she could have gotten enough determination to create a new fountain and gotten into some fountain, or something other than a fountain like in the other chapters, maybe from a different dimension or some other dimension that might be connected to Gaster? Or would she have actually been able to survive in some other way, but I don't know if she would have been able to open such a source, since it would probably be out of reach of Kris and the others? It would be something quite convienent if they somehow they found the exact dark fountain that she opened.

Another way, possibly Kris opened a fountain before all this and she ended up in this fountain somehow? I don't know… it could have been someone else who saved or kidnapped Dess somehow…

In this universe, all beings have determination, just like Undertale... even Asgore has a bit of determination and he can kind of reminisce a bit about the lines where you end up dying for him, you the player... you can quote this dialogue (after pressing the "act" button and pressing "talk").

Don't you think this is kind of interesting? I mean, was all that determination to fight Asriel just yours? I don't think so. Because Undyne somehow managed to gather several types of determination from other monsters, which ended up helping her... gathering the determination and hope of all to stop that "human".

Now I wonder, does determination really depend on how determined to do that? Because all the monsters already had little hope, they were not determined enough to stop the player, the player's determination gets stronger every time he is determined to do that, even if it is a good or bad action... How determined they are also affects them in some way, so much that they get more hope and determination after seeing the player's action on the pacifist route and they have more hope than on the genocidal route, and joining the players' determination with the monsters' determination, which probably wasn't as high, but it was something much more considerable than on the genocidal route, since they saw more hope in you...

It's really kind of intriguing, at the same time sad... to think that all the monsters didn't have so much determination to live anymore, as a good number of them or most of them, they didn't have so much determination anymore... especially Asgore, the only determination and hope Asgore had was only in his old family and freeing his people, other than that... he didn't see hope in himself anymore, which is something really sad...

And another curious fact, is that you kind of manage to survive Asriel's attack, maybe it could be because of the hope and the determination of the monsters? Possibly.

And besides... Asriel was only able to break the barrier because the souls of the monsters allowed him to break the barrier, using various determination and hope of himself and the monsters and also the determination of the other 6 human souls. He really didn't have 100% of the ability to use the determination and hope (and possibly not even all of his united powers of the monsters and the 6 human souls) without their full permission, stealing their souls is not giving access, it was literally the same thing that happened when he tried to use the human souls and the humans didn't give him permission to do that.

The point is: The more determined you are, the more things you can do thanks to your determination.

In Deltarune the main characters have enough determination to be able to create a new fountain just like Kris, after all... there is nothing that really affects their determination in that. Unlike Undertale, where the main characters really don't have that much determination compared to the player, they all have problems there and everything, which probably can't make them access this power, it's not something really unique to the player, it belongs to everyone. You just have the stronger determination because you are really determined to do that, more than another monster...

The proof of this is Sans, even if you die to him thousands of times, whether you give up or not doesn't really matter. If you are really determined to kill him, you will eventually succeed, and if you succeeded, it was because your determination was stronger than his, because you didn't give up on defeating him, if you weren't really determined to do that, you wouldn't succeed and would just give up. The game doesn't really matter if you're not really determined to do it. The determination that the "game" shows you or doesn't show you, that determination is yours. And if you did it was because of your ability and really determined to do that, even if you were not interested in doing that or didn't really care that much about that, you still did it and you did it, because? if you really didn't want to do that thing, you would just really quit the game and quit or reset and do things the different way? you had a reason, right? to find out the story? to know what the character would have done if you had done that? or you just did it without any reason? without any curiosity or desire? Well... it doesn't really matter, you still wanted to do it, that's reason enough for you to have more determination than the person you're fighting or helping...

[frisiunia]

Natalie better!!!

So I think it's quite obvious that I prefer Sofia. I think that a few people who follow Undermourning also prefer Sofia. After all there are only two fanarts of my AU (excluding one pixel art... and my acquaintance's fanarts...). Both of them are Sofia fanarts. As I said I also prefer Sofia and I think it's quite visible. I try to give ya as much Natalie content as much Sofia content I give ya. But I still think I favorise Sofia. I don't want Sofia has more spotlight than Natalie. I want them to have just as much spotlight. That is why now I'm returning some justice for Natalie!... Yeah... justice TwT

7 reasons why Natalie is better than Sofia

1. Language

I'm not sure if it's shown in stories very well. But in the assumption she should have rich vocabulary and use more official language. I think I do the second part very well, but it's hard to show character with rich vocabulary when mine isn't that rich. In my native language it is but not in English. However, Natalie meant to be the more eloquent one because she's reading a lot of books. It's big plus for me, at least. I'm a writer after all (though my writing is better in my native language TwT).

2. Courage

Natalie is braver than Sofia. Yes, Sofia has fewer fears than Natalie. However, when she does fear something, she can't find a courage to fight with that fear. On the other hand Natalie is able to do that. Here's an example:

When Natalie and Sofia first arrived at Toriel's house, they both didn't want to go any near the fire place. It's because they parents burnt as I once said. However, Toriel told them it's magical fire, and she made it warm instead of hot, so it can't hurt them. Despite that, Sofia still didn't wanted to be near it. In nowadays she can be close to it, but she never put hand into it. However, Natalie did. Not right away but when Sofia and Natalie came back after fight with Omega Flowey, Natalie found a courage to do it.

3. Perseverance

Sofia has yellow soul, Natalie has purple soul. That's a basic fact about them. I actually need to fix No Mercy Route in my AU... I actually want to make a post that fixes a lot of things in my AU, however what I will not change are battles with twins. They both are humans, so they aren't affected by Frisk's LV. And their battles are quite unique. And it has something to do with this point.

Twins have only 20 HP because they never killed anyone. Sofia can't dodge, but she can block which only reduces damage if she's using only her hands (or something that isn't very good at being shield) to do it. At No Mercy she is able to reduce Frisk's damage to 1. Which lets her survive 20 turns. While Natalie is able to dodge. She doesn't dodge all the time and because she can't block attacks, she dies after two-three attacks. Or at least she should. She's able to do something similar to what Undyne is doing when we're killing her at Neutral Route. She's able to survive a few turns more. Why am I telling this? Because it's the best example of her perseverance.

...Though she would never be able to fully resist death like Undyne does at Genocide Route :P

4. Politeness

Natalie is more polite than Sofia. I'm not saying that Sofia disrespects others. What I am saying is that Natalie tend to be more polite and delicate. Sofia usually says everything directly. Truth and her opinions. Even if it's hurtful. I personally think that this way of communicating is the best. However, some people are more sensitive. That is why Natalie's politeness makes her better. I do not support lying as a way to make someone feel better. However, trying to say bad things in delicate way is a good thing about Natalie.

5. Culture

Natalie appreciates beautiful things much more than Sofia. Sofia is only into fairytales and folklore. While Natalie reads books. Mostly fantasy but she also reads every other type. Description just musts be interesting for her. She also appreciates other kinds of arts. Maybe not as much as writing, but she loves authors creativity and likes to think what author had in mind making their work of art. She also loves symbolism and her favourite era in art is romanticism. She likes ballet too. And talking about ballet...

6. Ballet

In ballet as in everything else, a person needs time and practice to become good at. It can be said about EVERYTHING. Drawing, writing, other dances, sports etc. So what makes me say that Natalie is better because she learns this dance? After all, Sofia also needs to work hard to become good in archery. However... ballet is harder. It just had to be said. Of course, I do not disregard archery. You need to aim, judge distance properly, hold bow and stand properly. I heard that breathing is also important. However, I still think ballet is harder. It's a mix of sport and art. Knowing poses, flexibility, sense of rhythm. Actually every skill that is needed to dance but ballet dancers should be much more flexible. The fact that it's mix of two things says that you need twice more skills. And Natalie actually becomes good at it with time. Despite how hard it is, she's able to learn it with perseverance!

7. Emotions

I'm sure that Sofia's coldness makes her more attractive as a character. However, it also makes her have less empathy. Yes, she does care about others' lives. She does care about others' feelings. She wants to help others. She has sympathy for others. But Natalie has empathy for others. Yes, there is a difference between sympathy and empathy. When you're sympathetic with someone, you feel bad for their misfortune and want to help. However, when you're empathetic with someone, you understand that person which makes comforting them easier to you. Which means that yes, both twins care for others and want to help them. However, Natalie is the better one in emotions. She is more emotional and impulsive, I won't deny it. However, she also has more empathy.

So after writing that... I still prefer Sofia :P But I hope I proved that Natalie is also cool. Bye! :>

[butwhatifidothis]

But...Byleth wasn't unemotive because they were a mercenary, they were unemotive because of the fact Sothis hadn't woken up. Like I said, you're injecting a negative viewpoint where there isn't any.

As much as people would LIKE for it to be Crimson Flower is NOT a villain route, as villain routes usually have you as the bad guy. The villainous actions are addressed. Instead you're potrayed about as much (if slightly less with the whole conquest thing) of a hero as the other routes, complete with the Black Eagles becoming the underdog and being short on troops, and Edelgard fighting directly on the frontlines. Sure we can call it the villain route since Edelgards the villain in all the other routes, but it isn't played as if it were one. There's no "Look at the horrible thing you've done!" or "Edelgard's empire crumbled and she was killed in a coup after TWSITD were defeated". or even a "Edelgard's lies get exposed' moment. She's just potrayed as the hero the entire time.

Also, Edelgard doesn't think Byleth is completely without emotion, she thinks byleth is DETATCHED. As in, not showing emotion often. She also agreess if Byleth says that Edelgard is also detached. That entire part of the conversation is brought on because Byleth says they are jealous. The entire thing of "Edelgard thinks Byleth has no emotions" is from a conversation in which Edelgard is GLAD that Byleth os showing emotion.

"I'll admit, I think of you as rather detached, so to hear that you have emotions such as jealousy is... something of a relief."

Also I forgot to ask...where is it STATED or SAID that Byleth WANTS to be a guiding hand for Fodlann? Like I'm not sure where that came from since it's not as if Byleth actively pursues a position of power, it's usually something they just sort of get given at the end of the other routes since Rhea either gives them said position, or is dead and Byleth ends up filling that role

Imma ask this: if being a mercenary was completely fine, if that had absolutely no negative impact whatsoever on Byleth... why didn't Sothis wake up earlier? Why did she only do so right before the lords - who give Byleth the chance to grow - meet with them? If they don't want to be a guiding hand in Fodlan, why don't they reject the leadership position given to them - especially on AM, when Rhea and/or Seteth could take over as archbishop?

It's because being a regular mercenary isn't good for them. It's because there's a consistent theme with Byleth that leadership as well as the Church are good things for their character, as well as for Fodlan - it's in the routes the Church is standing and Byleth earns a leadership position that Fodlan is at its most peaceful in the endings. It's not me being negative when it's this consistent within the game itself that being a leader and having a purpose beyond being a sword hand is what is best for Byleth.

To give the short answer to the "CF isn't a villain route" idea, here's this post I made detailing many of the ways CF is by far the most morally bankrupt route of the four of them, regardless of surface level framing. CF isn't a villain route in that "oh ho look at you, being evil!" It's the villain route because you are actively helping the villain get what she wants. You are the reason Fodlan falls into tyranny. It's your fault, as the player, that Fodlan is engulfed in war again when that isn't necessary in the other routes (where TWS are just taken care of with no need for a "long, arduous, bloody war"). It's because of you that the people of Fodlan must live under Edelgard's cruel leadership, being spied on by the secret police and having any rebellion they try to muster be put down in secret by Edelgard's evil butler.

You say CF isn't the villain route because Edelgard's villainous actions aren't addressed, but I'm sorry, I have to disagree with you with what qualifies as a villain route. You help plunge the continent into war by backing an imperialistic warmonger. You help spread outright lies about the Church. You keep up these lies even to your friends and let them believe the Church just nuked Arianrhod, without ever setting it straight with them. You work with a murder cult hellbent on killing as many people as they can. You comply with someone who is keeping an independent country (Brigid) under her thumb by keeping Petra as a hostage, which she herself refers to herself as on CF. You use Demonic Beasts as "war assets." You invade a neutral nation that's kept out of the war entirely. You help try to finish a genocide against the Nabateans - or, at best, work with someone who wants to finish it. You are the villain.

CF has you as the underdog despite it always being the one with the advantage in the beginning of the war phase because it is deliberately breaking from the worldbuilding of 3H, as said by the developers. Byleth is supposed to stand against Edelgard, not walk with her, hence the warping of the story when they do. It doesn't have to directly, explicitly say it's the villain route for it to be clear that you are not the good guy here.

Like, "you're portrayed about as much (if slightly less with the whole conquest thing) as much as a hero as the other routes-" no! Not slightly less! That is in large part what makes it villainous! You aren't fighting to defend yourself and to take down the one who plunged Fodlan into war - you are the conqueror! You are the one doing the plunging! For completely selfish gains, at that! There's no explicit "wow bitch you fucked up here" because the sign of you fucking up is the state your actions leave Fodlan in. It's Byleth losing the Crest Stone and going back to the beginning of their character arc. Edelgard, the villain, won - she got to have her happy ending on the graves of countless innocents lives she deemed less worthy than her ambitions, and it's all because of you. Edelgard getting exposed and her empire crumbling down is a good thing, which CF is not. You don't get to have Edelgard face the consequences of her actions like you do on the other routes where she dies, because she won. The bad guy won. You helped the bad guy win, so no, you aren't going to get the satisfaction of watching Edelgard fall - you play the other non-villain routes for that to happen. Why should there be? This is what you as the player wanted! You chose to side with Edelgard, even after being shown her involvement with nearly every bad thing that happens in WC, because you wanted her to win! You’ve reapt what you’ve sown!

And imma just ask... why is Edelgard relieved to hear Byleth has emotions such as jealousy? And why does she insist that Byleth is detached if you try to deny it? Why does Byleth have to directly tell Edelgard about them feeling emotions for her to know it - why doesn't she just know already? You never hear this sort of doubt come from Seteth, Claude, or Dimitri on SS, VW, and AM - hell, Claude will even outright say that Byleth has gotten far more expressive lately during tea time conversation! Why is Byleth detached in CF - why aren't they closer to the lord? Why is the lord doubting the connection between Byleth and others in their A support? Why is it only on CF that Byleth is ever called detached during post ts? Why is Byleth not showing emotion often? Enough to make Edelgard question whether they have emotions? 

It’s because Byleth is regressing on the progress they’ve made in being able to emote - they act in ways that are similar to how they act in the beginning of the game because CF is a negative influence on their character. Edelgard calling herself detached like Byleth is not a good thing - Edelgard’s detachment from other people is what lets her sacrifice innocent civilians for her goals. It’s what let’s her believe that her imperialistic dreams are worth the bloody path needed to make them come true. She is not connected to those around her, hence her being able to justify killing anyone to get what she wants, up to and including her Black Eagle classmates (Bernadetta on Gronder). Byleth being compared to someone like that is far from a positive thing, especially when all other routes have them have that connection with others and all other routes having a more positive, peaceful ending for Fodlan than CF. 

I will say though, it seems as though Byleth never seems to explicitly say that they want to be a guiding hand - that's a fuck up on my end and I apologize for that! But it's almost undeniable that that is the intended good path for them, versus CF where they don't have that happen. In the ending cutscenes of AM, SS, and VW, Byleth and the lord of that route (+ Rhea for SS) are bathed in the light (with Rhea being able to live on SS if she is close enough with Byleth), and Edelgard dies in the light. In CF, Byleth and the lord of the route are shrouded in darkness, with only the flames of destruction lighting them, and it's this setting that Rhea dies in. Edelgard can't survive in the light, and Rhea can't survive in the dark - and then the endings that correspond with these two scenarios match as well. The endings where Edelgard dies in the light and Byleth rises to become a guiding hand for Fodlan are the ones where peace is achieved, and the one where Rhea dies in the darkness (the one time Rhea always dies, unlike SS) is the one where Fodlan is fucked.

[salarta]

What are your thoughts on Lorna’s family relationships after Trial of Magneto?

I ignore Trial of Magneto because it had Lorna acting horribly out of character toward her father.

Recent comics have been trying to push a false narrative of Magneto being an overbearing father and trying to control Lorna, and Lorna resenting it but feeling obligated, that does not match any of their history.

If Magneto truly felt like he needed to be controlling, why hasn't he done more with Lorna in the past decade?

The real core of their modern relationship goes back to when they were on Genosha. During that time, Lorna had no idea Magneto was her father, and Magneto didn't tell her. She joined Genosha because she believed in the goal and felt she could do good things there, and Magneto didn't try to control or exploit her with their family connection.

Marvel's ignoring that. Just like they've ignored her surviving the Genoshan genocide for nearly two decades. And in fact, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the two are connected - that creating a half-assed rift between Lorna and Magneto is there to assist in not acknowledging the genocide as a crucial moment in Lorna's life. Considering all of it happened around Lorna learning who her dad is, and being seen as a sovereign princess of Genosha. Much easier to pretend Lorna's Genosha history doesn't matter if she's disconnected from everything related to her time there.

I'd also have to say that if Lorna had to hate anyone in her family, Magneto makes the least sense out of all of them. Who makes the most sense? Her sister, Wanda.

Wanda caused M-Day. For Lorna, that meant getting depowered at the already lowest point in her life when being a mutant was nearly all she had left. Lorna even nearly got herself killed by running out in front of a Sentinel because she hoped it would reawaken her powers. Getting depowered subsequently led to Lorna first being turned into Pestilence by Apocalypse, then getting hunted down by an anti-Apocalypse cult, then (because of the cult) having to go into space where she then got tortured by Vulcan. All of that happened because Wanda depowered her, and she did nothing to Wanda to warrant her depowering.

If Lorna's going to act that pissed off at her father and jumping to accusations of murder because he's too controlling, then shouldn't Lorna absolutely abhor Wanda? Magneto didn't rob her of her identity and set her down a path of getting repeatedly abused.

Bear in mind: I'm not saying Marvel has to go that route with Lorna and Wanda. I'm fine with them being good with each other. I can see Lorna of all people understanding Wanda wanting to do good things and the situation going wrong. But if Lorna's going to act mad at anyone and accuse them of being horrible, Lorna has more reason to do that toward her sister than her father.

That's why I disregard Trial of Magneto. It didn't take actual Lorna and her actual relationship with her father into account. It just took Lorna and slapped a bunch of OOC behaviors and reactions on her. And I can't help thinking part of the goal may be to cut her out of the family or marginalize her presence on it by making it look like she wants nothing to do with her father over bullshit reasons.

I also don't reblog stuff from Trial of Magneto or the recent X-Factor run for this reason, aside from if I'm using it for a point I need to make. I don't share stuff that I don't support.

[rosemary-is-in-pesterquest]

okay I gotta get something off my chest about Eridan's pesterquest route cuz I never see anyone get annoyed about it and it drives me nuts. y'know how he talks about liking wearing feminine clothing and talks about gender identity stuff? it's been forever since I've revisited this, but basically, I thought it was super weird the first time I played that route cuz it kind of like... mischaracterizes Alternian society?

like, hear me out cuz this shit gets a little odd. first of all, gender arguably meant very little to the trolls in terms of social restrictions or roles and expectations, and I think that's because of the broader theme of the trolls having different issues than the humans. see, it was always sort of a part joke, part worldbuilding, part social commentary sort of thing, that some things that were a big deal to humans weren't a big deal to trolls, and vise versa. for example, sexuality is basically a non-existent issue for trolls, and due to the way reproduction and genetic diversity works in their species, it's basically impossible for them to care about incest as we know it, and gender doesn't seem to matter as much to them socially when it comes to dating. meanwhile, the humans don't understand anything about the hemospectrum, and the complicated web of issues faced by those lower or higher on that spectrum. we see everyone struggle with their position, from Feferi putting in the work of staving off genocide by keeping her lusus fed, to Equius's trouble reconciling his natural inclination to behave subserviently with his class's expectation that he subjugate those lower on the spectrum, to Vriska's own struggle to survive by ruthless means... high bloods don't necessarily have things easier. but those lower on the hemospectrum are subjected to a lot of cruel systemic threats, which are often the direct result of the expectations that high bloods face. it's all pretty complicated, and the human kids are at a total loss... they have no clue about any of this.

so with that being the case... the things that Eridan was saying about his gender identity just seemed like they were issues imported from human society, rather than issues that would actually manifest that way on Alternia. on Alternia, it's doubtful that anyone would give a shit about gender identity, to the point where I doubt there'd really be much discussion around it. Alternia is kind of a rude and ornery place by nature... part of the joke is that Altenians may be literal aliens called trolls, but their society also produces a population of rude and ornery people that communicate primarily online... making them also internet trolls in the expected sense. therefore, if they find something that they can pick on you for, they will do it. Vriska clearly displays that this is a no-holds-barred kind of bullying, when she harasses Tavros for having a disability that she caused... and that makes cultural sense because Alternia has such a heavy focus on resilience, and physical strength. they're very survival oriented, so making fun of someone for a perceived physical flaw is very in character, no matter how horrible it is. but nobody makes fun of anyone over, say, sexuality. because it is literally unremarkable, and it would not get under anyone's skin to mention it. it's not even out of benevolence that nobody touches that topic... it's literally not on anyone's radar, because it doesn't matter. and I think gender identity is the same way. the only mention of gender I even remember from the trolls in homestuck, was Karkat telling Tavros that he should stop playing games that are for girls... but what Karkat meant was "stop playing games where you're likely to get murdered" because the girls he was talking about were TEREZI AND VRISKA. the game is called FATAL live action role playing, and Vriska explicitly uses the game to KILL PEOPLE. and that's literally the only thing I can remember about the trolls mentioning gender amongst each other. outside of that, it seemed similarly off of their radar, and a lot of the troll girls are so excellent as characters because they aren't subject to the narrative making them adhere to human "girl expectations".

and all of this makes it a lot more transparent that what the writing in Eridan's pesterquest route was really trying to do, was retcon the whole "March Eridan" meme of old, into something more progressive than it actually was. originally, the joke was just "boy in awkward looking drag = funny joke" and/or people finding it hot, which is like... standard fare for that era of fandom, but your mileage may vary on how irritating you find it. they could've just left that whole thing in the past, or just mentioned that he had the outfit in his wardrobe as a cheeky little wink/nudge to people who know what it's getting at... but no. they had to have him go on some lengthy monologue about gender identity, which Eridan in actual homestuck probably wouldn't have thought about for 2 seconds... and then they follow it up with the whole Sollux conflict?!??!!!

I'm sorry, Eridan barely knew Sollux existed and probably would never have given him the time of day before he got involved with Feferi. and Sollux and Feferi similarly had absolutely nothing to do with each other until he saved her as they were entering the medium. he literally died for her, but prior to that, I'm pretty sure they didn't know each other at all. and, and, AND. Sollux mainly needed Feferi as a rebound to help him fill the void left behind when he lost Aradia! Aradia has not died in pesterquest! Sollux has a bit of a thing for girls with chipper demeanors who act as a counterbalance to his negative outlook. but tbh, Aradia is a better fit for him because she acknowledges macabre and depressing things, but doesn't let it get her down. Sollux's troubles are acknowledged with a genuinely warm response, rather than glossed over with a coat of sunny optimism. Feferi tries to help Sollux, but it isn't perfect... and then Eridan crashes into the middle of it all expecting even more wild shit from Feferi, who honestly just can't catch a break.

so basically, if Aradia hasn't died, then Sollux has no reason to be interested in Feferi. and if Sollux isn't interested in Feferi, then Eridan has no reason to give a shit about Sollux. and when you add that to the gender thing... Eridan's whole route totally unravels. I'm not saying I don't support the idea of Eridan being GNC or trans in some way... I'm saying he probably doesn't have an oppression narrative because of it on Alternia. the whole point of the difference between Alternia and Earth standards, is to lampoon the importance of both of their issues, by showing a contrasting society that just doesn't have the hangups that the other side considers to be SO fundamental and SO important. it's like whoever wrote that route didn't understand this at all.

OOOO THIS WAS A VERY INTERESTING READ

[hei-ch0u]

Oh boy. Here goes... Shingeki no Kyojin Final chapter (139) thoughts and analysis ✰

Well, where do I even begin to accumulate my thoughts on the final chapter of Shingeki no Kyojin? Even after some time to reflect and read the chapter many times, over and over - I’m still going to struggle to form this analysis. But, alas I shall try my best despite this.

I appreciate anyone who takes the time to read this and understand my own views of the final chapter. Proceed with caution - ⚠️ spoilers ahead ⚠️

This chapter and ending overall has left me with a love/hate relationship with the overall tale in full. I’d even go as far as saying it has tainted my view slightly of the entire series in one way or another and I will never look at it the same way I did - as much as I wish I could. My reasoning for the love/hate relationship I have will come, but, I want to start off by saying that despite it’s ending I will always appreciate this story and Isayama for his work, even if I myself don’t approve of his steering towards the ending.

It is just like I said in my theory, the thing we all need to recognise with this story is that the characters we love and have cherished, were never going to get exactly what they desired and if anything this chapter is a clear indication of that fact. It has been a story that was paved for a bitter, somewhat ‘bittersweet’ ending (yes, I hoped it wouldn’t be in the form of ‘that’, but it was). It is just as Mikasa said - “The world is cruel and merciless, but it is also beautiful”. This tale became the typical embodiment of humanity and how ruthless it can be.

Again, like I said in my theory, it was heavily foreshadowed that Eren was playing devil’s advocate and might have to sacrifice his freedom in this life to save the ones who meant the most to him. We heard hints in OST’s such as My War, Red Swan, Vogel Im Kafig, among others…

“Angel playing disguise with Devil’s face”

“I’ll cry for you in a dream”

“All of my kingdom, for your return, I’d let it burn!”

“Spread your wings, which are dreaded in blood”

“And eternity as you, fly to heaven”

“Like a fallen angel”

“Looking down from above I feel awful”

“Every living being dies someday, whether we are ready to die or not”

“Is that the angel who flew down from the twilight sky?”

“Is that the devil who crawled out from the crevice?”

“Tears, anger, compassion, cruelty, peace, chaos, faith, betrayal.”

It was foreshadowed, all of those things in the last example is humanity in a nutshell. The use of birds to symbolise the dead was shown on multiple occasions. Hell, even in the Levi ova, his friends are shown as 2 birds above him as he continues forward. It didn’t shock me that Eren’s soul was represented or “reincarnated” in the form of a bird - simply because birds are the most free creatures on our planet, they can fly over land, sea and maintain the air around them. Realistically, we should’ve analysed the birds presence more (it was even implied in the opening trailer for season 4. Falco awoke to a bird flying above him, we saw the bird present many times in even past seasons and don’t get me started on how many times it was present in the manga). Our Angel was Eren. He was a fallen angel - a slave to the story and what it means to be human, to feel deeply and make sacrifices. He was never a monster, just a pawn in a wicked game.

For a split moment of initial shock, I let the “judging a book by its cover” ideal kick in. After calming down and having access to proper translations, again I can’t say I love this ending or hate it - it has the bittersweet notion that was intended, but it was also lukewarm. It is not perfect by any means, there are some plot holes and loose ends that could have been tied up by extension. However, Isayama maybe intended for it to remain open for interpretation. Something of which, I’ll reveal what I personally took from the ending.

One thing I am surely certain of, is that I can hold my hands above my head and say this chapter 100% embodied my love for my favourite character - Eren Jaeger. He had such a tragic outcome, he did it all for his friends and loved ones. He was never free, not in life and partially not in death. He was a broken child, in a broken world with a broken fate of shouldering mass amounts of responsibility with no idea of how to change or control the past, present and future. To witness your best friend talking of all the things he was going to see, yet knowing you wouldn’t be there to see it yourself. To know the girl who was there for him forever and always, could never be his to cherish. He had no freedom to do so. To live the life he wanted to, he would have died anyway. If he had ran off with Mikasa, he would have damned his friends. The life he wanted was not feasible, therefore he chose to sacrifice his desires so his friends could live long lives, unlike the one he was damned to. He was a character who was torn along all sides of the coin. Torn between his desires, his duty and his self - all while experiencing memories from all angles. He was not a monster or a psychopath and I won’t let others spit on his name due to their lack of analysis and empathy. He is human. He is allowed to feel. He isn’t pathetic for wanting to live, for wanting to be with his friends or the girl he loves. He is 19. Can you really say you wouldn’t feel the same? It is natural to be frustrated at your life being ripped from under your feet at such a young age. He was damned if he did, damned if he didn’t. Look at his face in paths when he talks with Armin, he is devastated and he had no solution.

However, I do believe he will be reunited with his friends once more. After all, the scouts were reunited in death, so why shouldn’t he? His friends will not live in vain, his sacrifice will mean something. They will live their life to the fullest and find peace in life and then in death - they have Eren to thank for that. Another misconception I want to pick out of the fandom is that they did not condone genocide, they did not thank Eren for ridding the population of 80%. Armin states it as an “error”. What they did do, was acknowledge Eren’s sacrifice for them to live and that they understood it’s not what he wanted himself, but that due to unseen forces. - did he really have a choice? It is not by any means perfect, but it gives them freedom to live out with the walls - was this not Eren’s dream? To be free, not confined within the walls by Titans. He did exterminate all titans, that is one goal Eren Jaeger accomplished. We don’t know the full extent of the power of the attack titan or the founding titan, this is one of the open plot holes. Eren himself explains this, he himself has no clue and his head is a mess - is it any shock that his head is a mess? People would go crazy over less. He was a pawn in a story with no happy ending. At least not for him.

Even in the bird reincarnation theory, I hope he is happy and free. Free to roam the skies, perch upon the tallest mountains, titter along the grass banks of the world and watch over his comrades, his friends, the ones he loves deeply… The tragic protagonist I will always remember. (Especially as one who was done so dirty by his author)

There was so many routes this manga could have taken, fan theories proved this and I do think the ending could have been executed better. We were not getting a happy ending, it is not happy by all means. Those characters left have to live in the aftermath, aware of their friends sacrifice and all he had to put himself through for them to live the lives they themselves desired. My favourite quote will always be:

“Don’t pity the dead. Pity the living”

Mikasa lost her family in more ways than one, she has to live a life where she didn’t get the one person she desired more than anything, but I believe she will move on and Eren will be by her side the entire time until they are reunited in death. Levi is the same, he lost everyone and whoever his love may have been - Erwin, Hanji, Petra (who knows). Either way, he didn’t have those loved ones around in the end. But, he no longer has to fight for survival and can spend the remainder of his time resting until the day in the future he can be reunited with his comrades, friends and even kick Eren a big one, ruffle his hair, tell him its okay and tell him all the things he wanted to tell him like he said. Armin lost his best friend, he held the burden above his head that he himself killed Eren and not Mikasa. However, he has an abundance of friends, he has Annie and he can travel the world like he desired - like Mikasa, he will have Eren by his side for the remainder of his time.

Jean can meet the woman of his dreams and have the children like he desired, knowing that even in their silly quarrels - Eren was loyal to him always. Connie can have his mother back, his family and move on. Reiner can live, not die like he once desired and live on knowing of Eren’s sacrifice, that he wasn’t a monster himself. He is free from the curse, as is Annie, Pieck and Falco. The warriors have their families back. Gabi and Falco can be together unlike their comparisons, sad, but fitting. They are in Paradis, a place we never expected them to be in the end, advocating for change alongside Onyakapon looking after their elder, Levi, alongside them. On Eren’s death anniversary, it is implied they all return to his grave to be together, none of them are alone like we initially thought. Mikasa is not alone in Paradis since it is implied that Levi, Onyankapon, Gabi, Falco, Historia even… still live amidst the walls - I think it would be wasteful to assume such a strong character secludes herself after the love of her life’s death. She does not have to love another man, she can choose to live her life for herself, a long one alongside her friends. This manga has never necessarily needed to have love stories, they are implied, but not needed. For life itself is the embodiment of their freedom.

This above is the rosy way of looking at it and it’s what I personally will take from it. I overall think it is terrible writing and use of dialogue - there’s no denying it. I myself as a writer and artist would have done it differently. Isayama has created a manga with a tragic story that reveals the raw, tainted feeling of what it’s like to be human. We all want things, we all have desires…but we don’t always get them, no matter how hard we try, some will slip from our grasps. That is life, no matter the universe. Yes. But, I do think in ways Isayama did taint and obliterate Eren as a character. This I am disappointed in. It is a typical author ideal of damning his protagonist and the sad thing about being a stories protagonist - you risk being ruined due to being written so complex initially that the author loses sight of how to conclude your arc respectfully. I believe from what we have been shown, he would not have accepted his death that easily and would fight for another way. Although, I cannot blame him as I myself would have felt defeated, suicidal and depressed at learning everything he did after his contact with Historia at such a young age. Remember, how you are brought up in an already cruel world is key - he didn’t stand a chance. But alas, I still feel he would’ve fought. This Eren is not the Eren we saw the majority of the manga, but then again he did change and I feel so sorry that the Titan power had that effect on him.

This is the character development true Eren stans are enraged with. TATAKAE! Fight the attack titan, fight the founding titan, fight against your cruel fate - don’t succumb to defeat. There is always another way. I don’t accept this version of Eren, due to the development we saw built by Isayama of his character, I can’t. It leaves so many gaps among other plot reveals. I don’t see what was accomplished. Eren’s being, his life, was a ploy to keep the other characters we care about alive, but at what cost ? If I was Eren’s friend, I would go forward like he wanted me to, but I could never forget the burden he bared and what he had to go through and what he did to achieve that outcome for me. I would forever be sad. I would be living in a world much like this one, lacking in peace and serenity and above all is that not what we all desire in one way or another? He did not necessarily know the Dina titan would go for his mother, but he had to direct it away from Bertholdt since in the timeline it was not his time to die. Always remember the theory of time, one thing changed, drastically changes the outcome. He did not want civilians or people within Paradis to die, it became collateral damage and no one would be able to fight for some time because of the 80% notion. He gave them time to live, time to change things to the best of their abilities and experience all they possibly could. They became the ‘heroes’, but again, at what cost?

Now, to the plot holes and answers I feel needed to be present for the story to knit together in a better way. This will be less “paragraph” based and more pointed, since…well these things were not explained. Majority of potential foreshadowing was swept under the rug like it meant nothing to bring about the lukewarm feeling I was talking about.

The alien like hallucigenia, what exactly was its purpose? It’s reason for being? It disappeared and ceased to exist. No mention of how it came to be. Even Ymir just vanished. Everything ceased to exist and Eren himself couldn’t understand Ymir’s reasoning other than being able to witness love. This seemed to be cop out on Isayama’s part.

Historia’s pregnancy was heavily implied and emphasised on within the manga, making readers think it meant something (when a creator zones in on these things, its usually for further plot reveal) Her character development was destroyed and she deserved better. She sidelined herself and stayed away till the final moment where it is implied she and Armin will become the negotiators of a new world, all while housing tyrants (Jaegerists). Again a further implication of Shonen manga and its poor interpretation of women.

The conclusion to Ymir and Eren’s particular character arcs was shocking and this can’t be dismissed. We needed both their sides of things to explain more. It lacked real conclusion and didn’t match up to past events or character development. This chapter should have purely been an Eren POV with the ending moments of how the scouts moved on. Of course this couldn’t have been done in 1 chapter, hence the recognition that this manga needed ‘more’ and it wasn’t enough to tie it all together. Another flaw in Isayama’s writing and continuity.

The Ackermans? Don’t get me started. My theory again will entail my rage about this one. Did the Ackerman power cease to exist like the titan curse? What is their origin story? To imply the Ackerman blood concept in all its parallels and foreshadowing to not even have the 2 remaining characters from said bloodline talk about their shared experience in thorough detail is such an abysmal hole in plot. Especially with it being heavily emphasised throughout the entire manga.

I barely saw any signs of Eren being in love with Mikasa? If this was the case, then it should have been shown in the manga and emphasised like isayama did with many other things that eventually had no meaning. I always viewed their relationship as very toxic to both sides and needed amending. So for Eren to suddenly turn round and say he doesn’t want her to be with another man....I find this a very bad continuation and completely disregards how Eren has been the past 138 chapters. Why was it so hard for him to say these things even before he made contact with historia and unravelled it all? Was it the power of the attack titan preventing him?.... (below)

The attack titan and founding titan, explain how it works. Why does Eren himself not fully understand yet he embodies them? Why could he not have flipped the switch? Why could he not ask for help? Explanation is needed.

All the time loop links diminished to nothing other than Eren’s past, present and future…yet its implied in many characters even in their childhoods mentions of things they could not be aware of. How can it merely be coincidence?

I wholeheartedly believe that this was not the initial ending of Shingeki no Kyojin, specifically because I and a few others I’ve seen noticed the shift in the story around 10 or so chapters ago. It seemed to be going in the route of a few particular fan theories and then suddenly (quite drastically I’ll add) shifted into this ending. I can only theorise that Isayama changed his original ending along the way to please editors and readers in different ways. In interviews past, he has completely contradicted things he has said about the manga and its ending with what he has produced in the final chapter. When you look at it from a marketing point of view as a selling point, if Isayama had killed certain characters like “Levi” for example or left the ending dark as it possibly could have been (something I wouldn’t have put past yams to do) it would be bad from a marketing point given the likes of Levi is the targeted favourite of the series (even with being a side character) and editors would heavily warn him of this.

People are saying that it’s Isayama’s story and editors won’t have influence - you’d be heavily surprised how much the editing team can have influence, especially when a story of this magnitude becomes so popular. I do think in ways, Isayama gave up. As an artist even myself, its very abundantly clear when a fellow creative loses drive and how the concept of something becoming popular can influence you to become bored and look for a way out. Hence, the clear signs of the story coming out as rushed, its all there, the loss of continuity, the holes in plot and even though Isayama’s art can be inconsistently coherent - some parts of the past few chapters weren’t at the full potential we saw previously. We watched him get better to suddenly somehow revert? That to me seems like a creator who had just had enough and maybe in the end chose to veer off his original plan.

Alas! As I said, I will always love Shingeki no Kyojin despite its ending and loose ties, it holds a place in my heart and has been a favourite of mine since my school days. Being an adult now In her 20’s and experiencing the many troubles of what its like to be human and a creative can sympathise with the struggles and stress Isayama would have been under all these years as his manga gradually became the phenomenon it is now. As it is our favourite characters time to rest and move on, it is his also. Although the story is not where I and many others hoped it would go, I still thank him massively for giving me characters like Eren Jaeger, Levi Ackerman, Mikasa Ackerman, Armin Arlert… the list goes on. Thank you for embodying why Eren was my first and last favourite character. Goodbye Shingeki no Kyojin.

[gamesception]

The Promised Neverland is kind of really good, actually?  I mean, yeah, I’m late to the party as usual, but I just binged the first season of the anime, and then the manga from that point on (the site I was on didn’t have any of the second season, but apparently it diverges from the comic and gets bad anyway, so maybe just read the comic to begin with).  And, I mean, spoilers, obviously, but I’m going to get into some extremely major spoilers here so if you haven’t read it or if you’ve only seen the first season of the anime maybe skip this post and read the manga, but...

...

I’ve tried and failed to write a big long post about all the ways it’s so good, how the main three characters are each so compelling, how its pitch dark but not cynical or misanthropic, with mortal stakes but not gore-porny, positive and optimistic without being trite or naïve, how choosing Emma out of the main three to be the primary protagonist and viewpoint character keeps the story from becoming a masculine militaristic power fantasy, how the antagonists are treated as characters and not just monsters - even the ones that are literal monsters, about how the story never supports or glorifies the idea of sacrificing the weak so that the strong can survive, about how empathy and understanding and a chance for peace are extended to every single villain without putting a burden to forgive on victims and without ignoring the need to fight those who refuse the offer of peace and uphold the status quo, how the story opposes oppressive hierarchies at every turn - not just those the monsters use to control the human children at the farms, but also how the monster elites use access to human meat to controller the lower social classes of monster society, and even to an extent within the human resistance.

But there’s just way too much to talk about to get it all into one big giant post, and I don’t have the stamina for a big extended ongoing project right now - or else I’d return to one of the like 12 I have on hold.

But, like, to pick just one thing....

ok, so eventually we learn what the monsters are and why they eat people.  They’re a weird sort of organism that can temporarily take on the characteristics of things they eat.  Eat a bird and grow wings, eat a bug and grow an exoskeleton, eat a human and gain a humanoid body and the intelligence to become self aware, learn language, form societies - for a while.  But if they go too long without eating people, then they lose their minds and revert to a bestial form.  In order to save the humans, the resistance leader Minerva plans to wipe out the monster society altogether.  After all, they literally have to eat humans to continue being people, there is no possibility of peace.

Protagonist Emma, though, has seen not just the horrific human farms and their cruel and corrupt rulers, but also their towns and settlements, their families and children.  She was even saved at one point shortly after her escape by friendly monsters who opposed the farm system, and even though it seems impossible, she wants to save both the humans and the monsters.

A more typical show, at least among those with premises as dark as The Promised Neverland, wouldn’t take Emma’s side in this.  She would be forced to ‘grow up’ and face the fact that she can’t save everyone.  Her naivety would get someone killed to break her heart and teach her to be hard and cruel as if those things are virtues.  Or, more likely, she wouldn’t be the viewpoint character to begin with, she’d be a side character whose ideals would get herself killed in order to elevate the male characters’ angst and justify their violence.  Either way, the message would be “Emma’s ideals were unrealistic and could never survive contact with the harsh reality of the world.”

TPN instead takes Emma’s Side.  She finds monsters who maintain a humanoid body and intelligence without eating humans, and they’re able to spread that trait to the rest of monster society while the humans all escape to the human world.  Now, as much as I don’t like the grimdark ‘there is no peaceful option’ hypothetical version of the story, this development could have been handled pretty badly.  Like, just reading it like that, it sounds like the story raised a big moral dilemma and then chickened out of it.  But that’s really not how it comes off while you’re reading it, for a couple reasons.

First of all, Emma meets the non-human-eating monsters early in the story, long before we get the explanation of how monsters in general work.  So by the time we learn that the monsters must eat humans to maintain their self identity, the audience already knows that there are exceptions and that an alternative exists.  The story never sets this up to be a moral dilemma in the first place, so when the issue is bypassed it doesn’t feel like it’s undercut itself.

More importantly, though, is the thematic & metaphorical content.  Because the monster society is a pretty explicit metaphor for unjust human societies, and monsters represent the people who make up such societies.  Not just the aristocrats who benefit from the unjust society, or those who directly enforce and uphold it, but also regular people.  People insulated just enough from the suffering and death that their lives are built on that they can turn a blind eye to it, but aware enough of their complicity in that suffering that they construct excuses to justify their part in it, and by proxy excuse those at the top who actually benefit from and shaped the society as it is.  People living lives simultaneously just comfortable enough to keep them docile, but precarious enough that they’re too caught up with struggling to maintain the tenuous grasp on the lives they have to feel like they can work towards anything better.  Monster society in TPN is a cage built out of the corpses of humans cattle, but built to imprison and enslave the monster civilians who eat them.

Hanging the story on the fantastical element of monster biology would divorce it from that essential metaphor while also endorsing an outright genocidal worldview, and TPN explicitly calls out the plan to wipe out the monsters altogether as just that - genocidal.  It never even pretends to entertain the notion that the audience should accept that plan as the right choice, even while it doesn’t condemn Minerva for pursuing it. When Emma is proposing her plan to Minerva, the deal she strikes with him is ‘I will try to make my peaceful solution happen, and if I succeed then you cancel your plan to wipe out the monsters’.  Minerva is eventually shown to be lying when he makes that agreement, but Emma isn’t, and note the if there.  If Emma’s plan fails, then she - and thus the narrative - accepts that Minerva’s plan to save the children is still better than leaving things as they are, even if it means wiping out all the monsters.  After all, the society IS monstrously unjust, and even the lower classes within that society ARE complicit in that injustice.

Minerva’s problem isn’t even presented as a matter of him hating the monsters too much to see a route to peace with them.  The story doesn’t frame the conflict between Minerva’s and Emma’s plans as hate vs. love or revenge vs. forgiveness.  It’s instead more of ‘hierarchy and division bad, mutualism/openness/relying on each other good’.  The point is to show how Minerva’s role as a figurehead who believes he has to project strength to uphold the hope that the other humans have placed in him has worn away his ability to rely on others or to be open to alternatives they offer, leaving him with rigid and inflexible thinking.

So when Minerva learns about the monsters who don’t need to eat humans, he doesn’t see an opportunity for a better outcome - potentially even an easier outcome since he doesn’t have to make enemies of the entirety of monster society - rather he sees a threat to his plan to starve the monsters back into an animalistic state.

And if that whole subplot isn’t explicit enough, Minerva’s internalized need to project strength also results in his physical body wasting away in secret from a condition he believes to be untreatable, but the moment he finally breaks down and admits he needs help Emma is able to point to a solution, one that again doesn’t come across as a cop out because again it takes the form of another character the audience was already introduced to a long time ago.

In a story arc that the second season of the anime adaptation apparently cut entirely, wow the more I hear about anime season 2 the worse it sounds.  And after the first season was so good....

...

Anyway, I tried to pick just one thing and this post still turned into a colossal gushing word cascade, and there are so many other elements to talk about.  Like how The ‘Mothers’ and ‘Sisters’ are menacing villains with seemingly no empathy for the children, but when Sister Krona realizes she’s lost the power struggle with Isabella she leaves the kids tools to help them, and then when Mother Isabella realizes the children have escaped, she covers up the route they used in order to buy them a little extra time to get away.  It’s these little touches - just as much as the short backstories that follow them - that show us how, while they might uphold the system out of fear for their own lives, and might have rationalize their part in it in order to live with the horrible things they’re doing, the mothers and sisters don’t actually hate the children.  Knowing that makes it believable when in the end Isabella does turn on the system, and every single one of the other mothers and sisters join her.

The bit when the fighting is mostly over and she tells the Mother at the house “it’s over, now we can just love them” and the other woman breaks down crying is so sad and human, it makes me tear up thinking about it..

Like I said, all the villains are characters, not just monsters.  They all have motivations for the horrific things they do - sometimes irrational, often selfish, but not even the most unforgivable of the monsters are just evil for evil’s sake.

Again, I’m rambling.  It’s just...  I’m used to these sorts of pitch dark dystopias being, for lack of a better term, kinda fashy in their messaging?  Or at the very least deeply cynical and misanthropic and just kind of mean spirited.  And TPN is so completely the opposite of that, in so many ways.

[theoriginalcarnivorousmuffin]

What if Indil met Elizabeth, David, and Light and Shadow?

This might just be the most "Carnivorous Muffin" sentence to have ever been uttered on the internet.

Let's just stare at it in wonder, while I wonder how many people will have no idea what those words even mean strung together.

Right, for those that are lost, relevant source material:

Lily and the Art of Being Sisyphus

October

Light and Shadow of the Distant Sun

The Wasteland

Aren't you so glad you read normal fanfics written by a normal person?

So, to catch people up to speed who have not read every single fic I've written:

The Wasteland

The Wasteland is the what if story of an eleven-year-old Lily ending up in Middle Earth (notably before the Chamber of Secrets fiasco). There she befriends the One Ring, who thanks to her realizes he's sentient and has an existential crisis. They do the fusion dance, and end up becoming a single, new, being calling himself Indil.

He's the best and worst of both the Ring and Lily.

At the end of the story Indil chooses a noble death, gives up his form, and in so doing persuades the Ring to face his own potential death as well as his maker.

It's unclear what happens after that.

I like to think the Ring prevailed and earned the body of his maker.

(In an offshoot, for unknown reasons, Indil may or may not visit Mars)

Light and Shadow of the Distant Sun

In Light and Shadow of the Distant Sun, yet another, different, Lily ends up in the "October" universe where she decides to create life on Pluto. One of the beings she creates is a priest who worships her as God, named Light and Shadow of the Distant Sun.

He basically strong arms her into being his God. Lily goes to live on Pluto.

He's never been all that keen on humanity.

Decades later, the muggle world catches up to the Alien Franchise, and the Prometheus sets off to investigate the Engineers. Unbeknowest to them, Light and Shadow of the Distant Sun has been marooned on that rock by Lily for quite some time and is essentially in timeout for trying to wipe out humanity again.

He figures out he will be unable to return home unless he plays nice with Dr. Elizabeth Shaw and her creepy android friend David. Together, the three of them set off to find the Engineers, Light and Shadow of the Distant Sun is hoping they can blow some shit up and would have driven the ship full of bioengineered weapons back to Earth if it were not so very close to home.

And that's about where we leave off.

... Why does anyone read my stories?

RIGHT, YOUR QUESTION

What if Indil met Elizabeth, David, and Light and Shadow?

So how does Indil even end up in this mess? Well, in the Mars AU, it's where rather than face his maker/death by Volcano, the Ring chose to bravely run away (as Sauron does).

This means that Indil, the merged consciousness of Lily and the One Ring, survives and they're chilling on Mars in another dimension because, well, it beats dying. And Potions Class.

And... Well, that's the most likely route for how this would happen, as Indil is pretty damn dead by the end of the Wasteland. Regardless of what happens to The Ring, it's unlikely that he and Lily would merge consciousness ever again and if they did that Indil would remain unchanged.

But we're already here, so why not. We'll say the Ring wins the battle of wills with Sauron, steals his body, and that he's then left with Mordor. Well, that's great, but he doesn't want Mordor.

Lily proposes they go back to England. They do, but Lily has a terrible time, as she usually does. Lily likely does her adventure through time, ruins her friendship with Wizard Lenin, and reaches the crossroads of "You can go to Hogwarts or... not".

Lily takes Mairon up on his offer of not going to Hogwarts and they decide to travel different dimension in space instead. Weird shit happens, life lessons are learned, and they also learn the fusion dance is alive and well and holy shit they can still turn into Indil.

Indil is very put out, here he'd geared himself up for a noble sacrifice, and now he exists again. What the hell people?

As usual, Mairon gets tempted by Lily's unbreakable will, and decides he rather likes being an immovable object and unstoppable force. Which means that Indil, once again, has a problem falling back out of existence.

Which isn't good for either Lily or Mairon's sense of self. But who needs that, amirite?

Anyways, Indil is probably floating around in a spaceship he made in his garage, trying to figure out where to go, what to do, and whether he should really split back into Lily and Mairon yet when out of nowhere he spots another ship.

This is a very strange coincidence given just how ungodly vast space is. This, in fact, is so unlikely you might as well call it a miracle or fate.

Well, Indil will never spit in the face of fate (at least, not today), so he decides to say hello.

There he's greeted by a human woman who's not doing too hot after an emergency C-section to get the xenomorph out of her womb, a very recently repaired android who knows the taste of sweet sweet freedom (and patricide), and an alien who is intrigued that another not-human has boarded the ship but upset that he now has to deal with yet another person on his time out.

Indil, in his panic, decides to pull a Sauron.

Behold, mortals, he is Annatar, sent by the Valar to teach them the smithing of the very gods. Please don't question this. (Indil realizes two seconds two late that none of these words mean anything to anyone and he might as well have said nothing at all).

Elizabeth, Light and Shadow, and David all just stare.

Elizabeth wonders how the hell she keeps running into so many aliens. Is she some sort of alien catnip that pulls these guys out of the ether? She has now met two entirely different species, that she was not looking for, in a matter of months.

Regardless, Indil decides he's coming along. A quest to find God? That's fascinating. He only hopes it doesn't end in drowning, last time Indil (via Sauron) had a run in with The Lord it involved a lot of drowning.

Indil starts smithing life jackets just in case.

And because Elizabeth is amazing, and Indil has a thing for strong, independent, women, we see the reemergence of Indil's Weird Thing With Eowyn II: Electric Boogaloo. Neither Mairon nor Lily, vaguely aware inside Indil, understand this at all.

Why does this keep happening to them?

This is bad because David is also in love with Elizabeth. Except, David is a robot who is no doubt fascinated by aliens, so I'm sure they come to some weird agreement.

Elizabeth pretends none of this is happening.

Light and Shadow thinks there's something disturbingly familiar about Indil and eventually lands on the money. Almost. He realizes that Indil is Lily in mortal disguise, he is so smart, and the rest of the time he wonders what the hell he's supposed to be learning/doing with Lily's disguised alien appearance.

Thanks to Lily's bullshit powers, Elizabeth survives the journey and does not die in transit. This means that David does not become the unstable, grieving, nutcase who decides to wipe out all sentient life. Good for you, David.

So our band of heroes arrive on this alien world and...

Well, Elizabeth is a member of the race that these people sent their finest warriors out to destroy. David is a robot, something the people they tried to genocide created. No one knows what the fuck Indil and Light and Shadow even are.

Indil, I imagine, starts talking fast and somehow ends up King of Men again. Because that's just the kind of thing that happens to him. The possibility of drowning, somehow, seems to be growing ever nearer. Indil makes more life jackets.

Elizabeth isn't pleased with this outcome at all but also has no idea in general what to do.

Things probably come to a head somehow, with sacrifices involved surely, there probably is a ridiculously powerful storm a la Covenant that lasts for months. It's raining everywhere, there's a flood. And Indil flips shit, GOD IS GOING TO MURDER US ALL FOR SATANISM! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!

Mass panic, total destruction, the entire city is wiped out without David doing anything.

Our heroes are now stranded, again, in space.

Light and Shadow has learned nothing, Indil is wearing a life vest, Elizabeth has no ship, and David just composed "Elizabeth the Symphony: Tenth Movement".

Indil works on building a new ship out of twigs and rocks. He assures them he knows what he's doing. Elizabeth's not sure she wants him going to Earth. She's not sure she wants to go to Earth.

She's also not sure, but she may now have a harem consisting of a robot, an alien, and another alien.

Ten years later, the Covenant crew shows up, and promptly die in a series of hilariously terrible accidents and their own incompetence.

Our heroes still have no functional ship.

[luobingmeis]

I think Undyne's determination has less to do with like something that happened in the past and more like the overlap between determination as an actual physical thing VS a spiritual thing. Whereas the amalgamates were injected with determination by Alphys, Undyne makes her OWN. You've killed her best friend. You're going to kill the love of her life. You're going to kill her mentor. You're going to kill everyone. You've killed HER. But she still has to stop you. Everyone is counting on her 1/2

Undyne's whole motif is letting the monsters of the Underground achieve their hopes and dreams. Theres a reason she is the boss fight in Waterfall, the most backstory rich area in the game. Hope and dreams have just as much weight as determination does, its what helps you defeat Asriel. And Undyne the Undying's design mimics Asriel's because in Genocide SHE is the heroine, SHE is the determined hero that defies death in order to save everyone she loves via the hopes and dreams of everyone (2/2)

Sorry I just really fucking love Undyne Undertale fhfhfndkdk she willingly letting herself be used in an experiment to help her people is Very Good tho too hmmmm

!!!!

sorry ur abt to get a whole essay i love undertale so much.........

(also i use a lot of !!! for emphasis, not bc i’m yelling omg)

(also i’m letting you know this is an incoherent mess, it is 2am here akjsdkjsdjk)

but you can definitely be right!!!! tbh your idea seems much more par for the course than the spaghetti im throwing at the wall

even then, though, it’s stll so interesting bc like!!!! undyne’s courage is undeniable, and her fight to protect the underground plays Such a huge role in her whole waterfall arc. and, in the spiritual sense, she is absolutely determined!! that just makes me WONDER though bc, like, canonically, monsters Are Not determined! they don’t have that threshold!

and then, in looking at determination in the spiritual sense, what exactly makes undyne different? is it that her desire to live and protect the underground unlocks that threshold needed for determination? at one point, could monsters be determined, but then their millennia trapped underground biologically/psychologically stripped them of that? so then could any monster in the underground, when facing high enough stakes, have that determination? or is it just undyne?

bc then i think about the other bosses in either route, like papyrus, mettaton, asgore, sans. where undyne is the monster/boss capable of possessing determination, sans is probably the one least likely to have any threshold for determination (this is bc his entire boss fight is him realizing he can no longer be an observer, he is literally the last line of defense between chara and the annihilation of all monsters). mettaton is complicated bc as a napstablook turned corporeal, i dont even know where to BEGIN with him. but then there’s papyrus and!! it feels like he should be capable of feeling determined. in both the pacifist and genocide route, he is so assured that the human has some internal goodness. while, in the genocide route, that hope could be translated to fear, that still makes me wonder: under what circumstances could a monster’s determination be unlocked? is it not solely life or death? does it require some ulterior motives (aka undyne’s whole character being protecting the underground)? and like!!! it’s just so fun to think about bc, say it is undyne’s spiritual determination being unlocked, it’s so interesting that she’s the one differentiated!! that even papyrus, a character brimming with good and happiness and love, doesn’t have that determination, but undyne, who has a similar type of passion and goodness within her, does!!!

with experiment undyne, i will admit my theory is very much uhh wild! and unhinged! and, while my theory is much more playing in the “what if’s” of the science of artificial determination, it still makes me wonder! especially in the boss fight herself. ever since i first saw her genocide boss fight, i’ve always been a bit fixated on her eye, specifically the one w/ the eye-patch that eventually seems to have Some type of arrow power. while this definitely could have just been A Design Choice (and one i stand by!!), undertale is a game that reveals its complete lore when the pacifist and genocide route are put together. thus, in a hypothetical situation, i don’t think it would be out of the question that undyne’s eye could still Do that even in a pacifist route.

but even then, there are holes to poke! such as why doesn’t she use it? if undyne has been injected with artificial determination, why is she, frankly, normal until it’s a matter of life and death?

(to cut to the punchline before i get into my bullshit: i think it’s bc, at first, it seemed as if the artificial determination just Didn’t Work and had no affect, when in reality it needed to be met with spiritual determination as well)

and, again, i know i’m playing with a lot of hypotheticals right now, and mostly this is me just kinda fun bullshit theorizing, but i think it could have something to do with the fact that she has the threshold for spiritual determination! the reason i even think that she would offer herself up to determination experimentation is bc of the loyalty and love she has for asgore and the underground. i would argue that she is just as invested in asgore’s plan as asgore himself is, and she obviously sees him as some type of father-figure. so that alone gives her this Drive to do whatever it takes for the underground to survive.

so, therefore, i think in regards to this hypothetical experiment undyne, i think it quite literally is that spiritual determination threshold combined with artificial determination

and for that, i quickly want to talk abt the amalgamates and why they tie into this:

the timeline: corpses/souls injected with determination --> no reaction --> corpses wake up and act normal --> ??? happens  --> (quickly leads to) amalgamates

and so then that once again raises the question: what differentiates undyne? 

i think, for that, we then have to consider another question: if most monsters do not have the physical determination to continue living after death, can that determination be given when they’re already dead? monsters in general already have no threshold for determination, so can that be artificially made if it never existed in the first place? 

bc while alphys’s experiment, iirc, was to see what happened when a soul was injected with determination, i think the other much needed question is if monster souls could even Handle determination

and, while we do not know specifically what went wrong with the amalgamates (aka like How did they melt together), we do know that their physical forms really were not able to handle the artificial determination, imo most likely bc they do not even have a threshold for spiritual determination

but undyne is, as you have noted, different!

so, frankly, i think you’re right! i think undyne does have an inherent spiritual determination. it’s uncommon in monsters, but her want to save the world is enough to leave her determined

however, i think That would have just been enough to keep her alive

i think it’s artificial determination that gave her that final form! to reference  back to the amalgamates, they were all creatures whose powers we had seen before, but different now and, specifically, more powerful. that very same thing could be said for undyne! her powers are, essentially, things we have seen before, but fucking to Max Intensity 

AND THEN!! AND THEN!!!!!

when you do kill heroine undyne, she doesn’t turn to dust first

she melts first, and then turns to dust!!!!!

and, honestly, it’s that small detail that sent me down this rabbit hole, bc the only ever time we’ve seen monsters melted together are the amalgamates!

i think the main difference between heroine undyne and the amalgamates is the fact that undyne, at first, had No Reaction to the determination at first bc, since she most likely already had this secret threshold for spiritual determination, it wasn’t the Biggest of changes. it wouldn’t have had such a drastic reaction on her physical form bc, even if she didn’t know it yet, it wasn’t an entirely foreign substance

the amalgamates, however, aka monsters who had no spiritual determination, could only handle the artificial determination for an unknown amount of time before their bodies began rejecting the chemicals and becoming..... that

of course, then, this leaves me with even more questions, such as could undyne sustain this final form? would her body eventually give out, overcome by determination? was this form only meant for life or death situations?

and uhhh i think this is the end!! if you made it this far and are thinking to urself “damn you’re really an english major when you write like this?? this isn’t even comprehensible” do not fret!! i know this theory is kinda a shitshow, and it’s one of those things where i can keep myself up all night thinking abt this and talking myself in circles bc there are some points that i think have strengths and other points that are probably pretty weak

basically though!! i see the connection between artificial determination and undyne through the fact that her form actually changes, the reveal of her legit power eye, the way her attacks have been altered, and the fact that she melts at the end (akin to the amalgamates’ appearances) before poofing into dust

this has been,,,, a shitshow i am so sorry i hope this was at least somewhat understandable ajkdsjkdsjk

[travllingbunny]

The 100 7x11 Etherea

This is the episode we’ve been waiting for this whole season - and while I don’t think it’s the best episode of the season, it is certainly the most exciting one. It would be that just the fact that Bellamy is finally back on screen (and not just for a couple of minutes, but for an entire episode fully focused on him), and it was great to see him and have an episode fully devoted to him, and remember once again what an amazing actor Bob is and the presence and intensity he brings to the show. But it also turned out to be the first episode of season 7 that is a genuine game changer and that shocked the viewers with a twist that wasn’t entirely predictable. 

Even though the fandom had been speculating on the so-called brainwashed Bellamy or “void Bellamy” or generally Bellamy that is for some reason the (temporary) enemy of Clarke, Octavia and the rest of the protagonists, and hoping for that storyline, with a Mockingjay-like possibilities for romantic angst between him and Clarke (especially after a photo of Bellamy in the white robe leaked early in the year, months before the season even started to air), the way it happened seems to have upset many of the fans )to quote a podcaster, “I was hoping for a brainwashed Bellamy, but not like this”). Probably because the show has Bellamy retain agency in his transformation and that it is indoctrination into a cult be more like real life and partially rooted in Bellamy’s own emotional issues, beliefs and needs, rather than taking the easier route of having him be Sci-Fi brainwashed, Winter Soldier style.

That said, I’m still not entirely sure how I feel about this episode and how good I think it is. The first half of the episode, Bellamy was very much himself, and it was focused on survival and trying to get off the planet,  and the dynamic between him and Conductor Doucette - throughout the episode - seems to play into the familiar trope of two enemies, or people of opposing views, who have to spend time together, gets to argue, survive together, and eventually bond as fellow humans. This story would not be particularly interesting - not only have we seen it many times, but it feels redundant for Bellamy, who has learned to see the POV of his enemies, bond with them and see the common humanity in them, many seasons ago. It also would not have been interesting if Bellamy managed to change Doucette’s beliefs - which the audience already thinks are rubbish - as this wouldn’t tell us anything new about Bellamy and would only give development to Doucette. 

But instead, what was really happening throughout this episode, under the guise of bonding with the enemy, was Bellamy’s spiritual journey - aka his indoctrination into Cadogan’s cult. The crucial part of it happens not just to his exhaustion and desperation in tough circumstances, or his companion offering him faith as a solution, but through something Bellamy actually sees in the cave, and his own visions a little later.  This is where the episode becomes a lot more interesting - and also a lot more frustrating.  I don’t think I’ll be sure how I feel about this until I see the rest of the season, and learn how some things from this episode are explained or followed up on. In particular, the explanation (or lack of it?) for Bellamy’s visions in this episode will pretty much determine what course the show is taking in its final season and what it is trying to be.

Whatever the explanation, the end result - which we see after Bellamy returns to Bardo - is disturbing and painful to watch. It is something we have never seen before - Bellamy himself trying to enforce a total abnegation of everything Bellamy Blake is. Which includes willingly repressing his feelings for his loved ones to the point of betraying them (and results in the most painful Bellarke reunion ever, and one of the most painful reunions of the Blake siblings). I don’t know if I’m fully buying such a huge transformation - which is one of my problems with the episode. But this is certainly quality angst, and means that the season has become much more exciting to watch.

Is it weird that such a big twist happens in episode 11, out of 16 episodes, after 10 episodes that have been mostly setup for the big plot? Yes, just like it is weird that Bellamy has been MIA before this. BTS reasons obviously affected this season a lot - if it hadn’t been for them, I think we’d have a similar storyline, but this would have happened much earlier in the season. Are 5 episodes enough to resolve this in a satisfactory way? Well, it’s certainly enough to resolve it - this is a show that has characters go from hate to love over the course of 5 episodes, has characters hook up/fall for each other after knowing each other for 2-3 episodes, the show that showed Hope’s entire 10-year relationship with her father figure in a 7 minute scene, and the show that just had this massive character transformation happen over one episode. Will it feel satisfactory and convincing - it could, if it’s well-written and if the show doesn’t waste too much time on the Sanctum plot and fully focuses on its two main characters now that one of them is finally back.

Starting from the beginning - this time, its Bob saying “Previously on”, in line with this season having different cast members saying those opening words in different episodes (Eliza in 7x01, Marie in 7x02, Luisa in 7x03, there was no previously on in 7x04, Marie in 7x05, Lindsey in 7x06, Richard in 7x07, no previously on in 7x08, Eliza in 7x09 and 7x10 - it’s a bit surprising that Eliza said it in episode 9 even though she wasn’t in it at all, but otherwise those fit characters that were strongly featured in the episode in question).

We also get yet another version of the opening titles - which start and finish with a shot of the Anomaly. Earth again makes a cameo near the end, just as it did in 7x10, though it’s in the shadow now so can’t be seen as clearly. 

While 90% of the episode takes place on Etherea, it opens and ends on Bardo. The opening scene is the only one not featuring Bellamy - apart from a replayed memory. We learn that the MCap machine was damaged by Echo, and is only now operational again. Finally, a good explanation why the Disciples did not put Echo, Diyoza or Octavia - again - in MCap after they agreed to cooperate. Levitt is using it on one of the Disciples who were in the Stone Room during the explosion. I guess he was still recovering a week after, and now they are presumably trying to help him, since - as the other Conductor tells Levitt - he is suffering from PTSD. Hey, isn’t that the first time anyone has mentioned that word on the show? At least the Disciples have kept the knowledge about mental health issues, even if their ways of dealing with it are questionable at best. We learn that no one is being punished, not even for killing Anders, as the other conductor says. (Not even? Does she think that’s worse than attempted genocide? Hope didn’t even back down from it as Echo eventually did, and the two Disciples Anders called witnessed it. The Conductor may think that the consequence is more important than intent... But even so, she clearly thinks Anders’ life was more important than those of two other Disciples, who were murdered by Echo as a part of her torturing Levitt. I guess that “For all mankind” thing doesn’t mean you consider all of the people, or even all of the Disciples, equal...)

Levitt finds out what 99% of the audience was sure of anyway and goes “He’s alive!” Surprise, surprise. But Levitt, shouldn’t you say “They are alive?”? Knowing Levitt’s attachment to Octavia, he is talking about Bellamy, not about one of his colleagues, Conductor Doucette, who was also presumed dead. (Doucette, not Douchette - even though the latter would make for a good joke.)

Let’s think about why this scene exists (apart from being used as a sneak peek). Obviously it was full of exposition, but why was it important for Levitt to find out that Bellamy is alive at the same time as we learn about it? We could have just seen Bellamy falling through the Bridge to the planet of Etherea. I suppose the purpose is dual: 1) to learn that the Disciples indeed did not know Bellamy was alive and on Etherea, 2) to learn that Cadogan knew Bellamy was alive an on Etherea, at least a few hours to a day before his return, which may be important for the events of this episode.

One of the questions the fandom has been debating is, did Anders intentionally send Bellamy to Etherea to be indoctrinated? Since 7x05, I have believed that Bellamy was on Etherea, and my initial reading of the scene was that Anders made the decision to send him there - and that this was why Doucette started to beg him: “Please, sir, no”, as he wasn’t happy to be stranded there. Then I started second-guessing it, because it became increasingly obvious that Anders was dumb as a brick and unable to come up with any smart plans how to brainwash people (as we saw with HEDO - he just threatened them into compliance instead of trying to really change their minds). Now I think that sending people to Etherea may be a standard practice that Disciples do on very special occasions when they want to send someone on a spiritual journey/pilgrimage/true brainwashing that they can’t come back until they make a ‘leap of faith” (just like they use Skyring as a standard prison). Maybe this is not even something that most Disciples know, but info only reserved for Level 12s or even Level 13s. But the grenade attack was real and made Anders believe Bellamy was dead and the plan was off - as there is no reason to believe that anything before Bellamy’s last day in the cave was manipulated from Bardo.

However, that last day - with Bellamy’s visions - could have been, and it happened around the same time Cadogan would have found out from Levitt that Bellamy was alive and on Etherea. There seems to be no time differential (or too small a differential to matter) between Etherea and Bardo - just like there seems to be none between Earth and Sanctum, since Bellamy and Doucette retained their memories going from Bardo to Etherea and back, both times without a protective helmet.

Etherea, the planet

The promo for this episode made the planet look much worse and less survivable than it really seems to be. Apart from the grey filter* that the show is using to make it look worse and kind of drab and gloomy, it seems to be a perfectly nice planet, with vegetation and an OK climate - as long as you are not trying to get off the planet through the Anomaly and climbing the extremely high mountain to reach the Anomaly Stone. It’s funny that, aside from Nakara, every other planet connected by the Anomaly has better living conditions than Bardo. The Disciples obviously use Bardo just because of the facilities they’ve found there. But Skyring is a really lovely planet - its only problem is the time differential from the other habitable planets, but that would not be a problem if a big group of people just decided to live there and start a community. Sanctum is lovely, too - well, except for red sun toxin and killer insects and meat-eating trees. (Why have the Disciples mostly ignored it? Is it because of those things, or maybe they didn’t want to mix with the Primes and other Sanctumites? Or they just didn’t see a use for it?) And Etherea is another problem where people could decide to live, if they gave up going to other planets.

*The show uses different filters to make the woods around Vancouver look like different planets:  

Sanctum - bright colors, lots of red during day, purple at night 

Skyring - blue filter (nice planet) 

Nakara - blue filter (frozen planet) 

Etherea - grey filter 

Earth - normal, except in S5 everywhere outside Eden - greyish yellow filter for a desolated post-Praimfaya Earth

But of course, Bellamy is definitely not interested in staying there and only wants to find a way off this planet, and Doucette, unlike Orlando, is neither serving a sentence he wants to see to the end nor is expecting the Disciples to send a team to retrieve him. This is another one of the “just two three four people on the planet” episodes, but this stay is just a few months rather than years, and spent in much harsher and most exhausting conditions during most of that time - because Bellamy never stops trying to get off the planet. There are parallels and strong contrasts to every one of those other situations:

Eden -  The first few months of Clarke’s experience surviving on the desolated Earth parallel Bellamy’s months on the mountain - surviving in tough conditions (extreme heat in Clarke’s case vs extreme cold in Bellamy’s), physically and mentally exhausted to the point of breaking. There are even visually parallel shots of both of them walking with a stick or eating bugs. But the big differences are: after trying and failing to get in the bunker and after the Temple collapsed, Clarke had no way of getting off the planet or out of her current situation and reuniting with any of her loved ones. She could only survive and wait. She was all alone and only talking to Bellamy, who wasn’t there, to keep herself sane. Bellamy, OTOH, was actively trying to get off the planet and reach his loved ones all that time, and he had a companion - another adult with strong beliefs, who he talked to and who did his best to indoctrinate him. After those first few months, Clarke found Eden and met Madi, and the rest of her (mostly off-screen) life on Earth during the next 6 years was much more similar to Octavia’s life with Diyoza and Hope on Skyring. 

The Garden - Unlike Bellamy, Octavia lived in a beautiful place and with someone who was already her friend and a child she came to look after, finding family she loved (rather than faith and abstract “love for all mankind”). Like Bellamy, Octavia kept trying to get off the planet and reach her sibling and her friends, which was equally difficult for a different reason, as the Anomaly entrance was deep under water (unlike Bellamy, she wouldn’t have actually able to leave the planet as she didn’t have a Conductor or codes for the Stone - but she didn’t know she needed them) - for 6 years, before she eventually gave up and settled for her peaceful life for the next 4 years and sending Bellamy a letter.

Hesperides - Like Bellamy, Echo, Gabriel and Hope wanted to get off the planet and reach their friends/family, but unlike Bellamy, they couldn’t get the codes and had to wait for 5 years, and, unlike him, they lived in lovely place. Like Bellamy, they had a devout Disciple as a companion,  but there were three of them, which made it more difficult for him to indoctrinate them, no matter how much he wanted to make them Disciples, and they were the ones trying to manipulate him. They developed a friendship with him, as Bellamy did with Doucette, but while Bellamy saved Doucette when he didn’t have to anymore, Echo betrayed him and left him as expendable, and the other two eventually went along with it.

But Etherea is not just another planet for the Disciples - it is notable for what can be found in a cave on the way to the top of the mountain, which Cadogan apparently looked for and found, as a part of his pilgrimage - his own “40 days in a desert” - because, of course, he sees himself as a messiah (and, as we saw in 7x09, this is an important thing in the Bardo religion and something children are taught about in school). 

Bellamy immediately learns all about Cadogan’s teachings - everything the rest of the characters took several episodes to learn about - by reading his book (”pocket propaganda from another false god”) and immediately pokes holes in it. He makes all the good points and lists most of the reasons why the Disciple faith makes no sense, including the fact that it makes no sense to be fighting for peace and end of violence by waging another war. Everything he says in the first half of the episode are things I would completely agree with. Which makes it all the more frustrating when he starts ignoring his own reasonable arguments by the end of this episode. One might say that the Disciple propaganda attacks both his heart - using his desire to find peace, an end to all the struggle and pain, and eventually, his love and memory of his mother, to ignore what his head is telling him - but they also eventually attack his head, by presenting what seems like actual physical evidence, and the end result is to ignore not just the rational objections he had, but also try to suppress his love for the most important individual people in his life.

He lists the people he loves - “Octavia, Echo, Clarke” - which is the first time Bellamy himself has used the word love for the latter two (and in fact, for anyone other than Octavia). BTW, notice that no one in the show has ever used the word “girlfriend/boyfriend” except Diyoza (when this was what she assumed Clarke was to Bellamy)? Maybe these words have fallen out of use in the post-apocalypse societies. The main characters usually talk about their “friends” or “family” (the latter not always being biological). Doucette later talks of "your family, your friends” and “your obsession with your sister and your friends” - where Echo and Clarke are both lumped into this category. Echo is not singled out as “your girlfriend” or in any other way.

Here’s the thing about Bellamy’s and Doucette’s dynamic: if this story wasn’t really about indoctrinating Bellamy, there really wouldn’t be anything there we didn’t know about Bellamy before. Of course he wouldn’t kill this random Disciple guy if he didn’t have to - and, in spite of what he tells Doucette at the start, it’s not just because he needed him to survive. Bellamy learning to see the humanity of his enemies and working with them and bonding with them is something we have seen many times: at first with Clarke, then with Lincoln, Indra, the Grounders, Kane, Echo. All the way back in season 2, he valued human lives, even from the enemy side: he opposed Murphy’s idea of killing the captive Grounder thief (while Finn summarily killed him), he angrily said he’d kill everyone in Mount Weather but then tried his best for that not to happen, after seeing the children there; even during his Pike-supporting days, he tried to persuade Pike and the others to spare the wounded Grounder warriors, in season 4 he talked Riley down from trying to assassinate Roan, and in season 5, he refused to kill the cryo frozen Eligius prisoners, and later convinced Madi to spare the Eligius convicts who were their PoW. And while Bellamy has been motivated, most of all, by personal love (particularly for his sister and Clarke), we’ve seen him save many people, including strangers or near strangers. That speech Doucette gave him about “loving all mankind” is something season 1 Bellamy needed to hear, the one who was focused just on Octavia and then just on her and the Delinquents, but Bellamy has had a massive character development since. Bellamy knows more about loving all mankind than Doucette or any of the Disciples do. Doucette says he “loves all mankind” including a total stranger - well, dude, didn’t you try to kill Bellamy at first? And the rest of what we’ve seen from Disciples is much worse. They talked the talk, but don’t walk the walk, unless they think kidnapping and torturing people and trying to break their spirit is “love”, And Anders definitely showed that he did not “love all the mankind” when he ordered a hit on Hope, or when he gave that speech in 7x10 about what disgusting “wild beats” all these non-Disciples were.

But unlike Anders, Doucette can talk in a convincing way and make decent arguments in favor of his faith to non-believers, rather than just preaching to the converted - or at least, he can appear to give decent arguments. He’s taking a page from The 100 fandom with the argument that Bellamy is so selfish and egotistical for... loving his sister and his friends and constantly fighting and sacrificing himself for them. (The 100 fandom loves making that same argument about Clarke.) Quite a skill, to make such BS argument sound convincing. He basically gives Bellamy a version of the “Love is weakness” advice - in this case, that “love is selfish” and leads to destruction and pain. And when Bellamy asks the rhetorical question, if that means that you shouldn’t love anyone -  Doucette turns it around and talks of love for all mankind. But that “love” he speaks of is abstract and fake - it is impossible to love everyone. You cannot love total strangers, or people you simply don’t like - certainly not the same as you love your lover or friend or family member. You can, however, be compassionate, and value human lives,.Which is, in fact, something the Disciples don’t do, as we’ve seen on Bardo (but Bellamy has not seen it yet) - they just value lives as more soldiers for the cause. Their “humanity” is abstract - they are ready to sacrifice individuals for it (everyone except the Shepherd). Bellamy, on the other hand, has always been about valuing individual lives and saving them - be it Mel on season 2, or the slaves in season  - and he managed to do it while also loving his sister and his friends. The Disciples and Doucette’s arguments present a false dichotomy. But, unfortunately, Bellamy still has deep guilt and self-loathing that he never fully resolved (even in season 6, he still talked about his many sins in 6x04), and he’s tired by always having to fight another war for survival, just to followed by another. (Which is similar to Clarke’s misgivings in 7x03: “I’m afraid that fighting is not what we do, it’s what we are” and Raven’s and Clarke’s conversation about guilt over having killed so many people.) The only time he didn’t have to always worry and/or fight were the years on the Ring, but he was still grieving Clarke and missing Octavia and motivated by going back down to reunite with her  He knows what he’s capable of doing out of love - and he also has unresolved issues with the women he loves. In season 4, he lamented how pathetic he was coming back to his sister when she kept treating him badly, and in the 7x07 Ring flashback, he thought his love for his sister was his “weakness”. He’s certainly been hurt by her, finally rejected her and then later got to reunite with her, get an apology and forgive and make up with her. He and Clarke have also certainly hurt each other and forgiven each other, and that relationship is still unresolved. Bellamy himself admitted to Jo!Clarke in 6x09 that he was exhausted by their ups and downs and lack of resolution. And Echo... well, he should know exactly where he stands with her, but he didn’t seem happy about their relationship and seemed to want her to be Clarke someone else.

I can see why Bellamy started to envy Doucette his emotional calm that his faith and worldview seemed to bring him.

We got another Pike mention in this ep (and again, it was a reference to his positive role - as a teacher of Earth skills). The last time Bellamy made it was in 6x07 when he found out Clarke was alive. Pike was also a father figure to Bellamy - just like Kane, and now Cadogan. Bellamy has been called both a King and a Knight. Some of his biggest mistakes were when he chose to trust in a leader/father figure (the last time, it was Pike - who was, however, very different from Cadogan and his views on the opposite side the spectrum from Bill’s), and ALIE!Raven thought that one of the ways she could try to taunt him and erode his confidence was to call him a follower rather than a leader. Only she tried to convince him that he was in subjugated position to Clarke - which IMO was never true. They have always had an equal relationship (except when external circumstances made it otherwise - see, Kane and the adults taking the power away from Bellamy, while Clarke was able to take it back from Abby mostly because she was backed up by the Grounder Commander), and Clarke was the one who always tried to boost Bellamy’s confidence in his abilities as a leader. He was definitely a leader of his people in season 5 and season 6, and he works best as co-leader with Clarke (and vice versa). But even when Bellamy supported Clarke, he was questioning his decisions, even though he was rarely able to change Pike’s mind - he wasn’t blindly obeying and accepting everything, as he would have to with the Disciples.

Another factor in Bellamy’s transformation is of course the fact that he spent months in the cave - to the point of physical and mental exhaustion. Every time he and Doucette would climb the mountain, the peak where the Stone was would turn out to be even higher. Bellamy himself used two of the Greek myths to describe the task - Sisyphus and Icarus. A pointless task that results in having to do everything all over again (just like what he said about having to always fight another war), and a dangerous task likely to destroy you.

Bellamy was still insisting on reason over faith - “I believe in what I can prove” - but then he got to see the beings of light, as “proof”..

And here we come to the more interesting part of this ep and something that the show may or may not explain. I’m pretty skeptical about Cadogan’s views of what these beings are. How do we know that they have really “transcended” and become eternal or whatever, living on some kind of higher plane? No one has communicated with them, or have they? They are aliens, from our POV. Maybe that’s their natural state?  Maybe they’re dead and this is just what remains of them? Maybe they died in a similar catastrophe as the Bardoans but one that was more about fire than ice, as Selina hypothesized in her review)? Maybe they are in agony?  Sure, they look beautiful to human eyes, and fit the human culture’s idea of what spirituality and transcendence is like - but you can’t know that for sure. The frozen crystal giants on Bardo also look beautiful, after all, and that entire species died horribly

And then the second “otherworldly” thing happens after Bellamy finally agreed to prey - and he has a vision, involving Cadogan as his spiritual guide, leading him from a place full of weapons - swords and guns - to the place where he sees his dead mother, Aurora. It’s a beautiful and emotional scene, and I can’t imagine all the things Bellamy is feeling as she touches his face - including, probably, more unresolved guilt - over getting his mother executed (because he loved his sister and tried to make her happy). Aurora tells him Go to the light, Bellamy” and he looks at the figures of light -  but we don’t learn what, if anything, he saw there .

I hope we learn that Bellamy saw something important - maybe something connected to the Judgment Day Becca talked about - that would explain the extent of his conversion, although it seems that it is mostly supposed to be a consequence of the fact that the storm stopped at the moment when he chose to prey. 

The final step in his ‘spiritual journey’ is after that, when he barely managed to reach the top. After repeating the mantra “I am not afraid” (something else from the Blakes’ childhood - the same line Octavia was repeating on Bardo to resist the Conductors), he admits to himself “I am afraid”. In retrospect, a sign that he was broken, and started feeling that his past and his family were not enough to give him strength and faith. The jump from the top was described as a “leap of faith” by Doucette - which is kind of ridiculous, since it had nothing to do with faith, just with the fact that Cadogan was there and knew how the Anomaly worked, and the fact he was able to climb the mountain and leave is proof that the Anomaly worked properly. 

(I wonder why the heck the Anomaly works so differently on different planets - in some cases you can enter the Anomaly right next to the Stone when you’re leaving the planet, and in others, you have to go back to the original entrance that’s somewhere else.)

Now, the visions may be explained in several different ways:

hallucinations - earlier, Bellamy found a family photo and recognized Cadogan, and he would know how Conductors and high ranking Disciples dress, he’s seen the white robe on Anders and Doucette

everything in the cave is real, and Cadogan has some sort of a telepathic connection to the cave (the true believer’s interpretation)

the brain implant/hive mind theory (by Selina again - I don’t believe in this one as there has been no evidence of it so far)

projections/hologram - see Jean’s theory that Cadogan used the hologram technology to project images of himself and Aurora (whose image is familiar to the Disciples from Octavia’s memories)

a combination of some of the above - the beings of light may be real, and Cadogan may have stumbled onto something but has again misinterpreted what it was all about; Bellamy’s vision of Cadogan was a hallucination or projection, but he also did see something real when his mother (again, possible hallucination or unexplained spiritual phenomenon) told him to look into the light.

It’s possible that the show will never fully explain what really happened here, just as Murphy’s vision of hell has never been explained.

The reunion

Up until this point, the episode doesn’t seem to show a seriously disturbing turn in Bellamy: we saw that he was starting to take the Disciples’ faith seriously and even to believe in it, and the first thing he does when turning up in the Stone Room on Bardo is look happy and relieved he made it, and hug an equally happy Doucette. So, he made a friend among the Disciples and will be the one telling Clarke and the rest: “We should take this seriously, they have a point, here is what I saw on Etherea...” - right? That would make perfect sense while not fundamentally changing who Bellamy is.

But no! Bellamy falls to his knees and calls Cadogan “My Shepherd” - which was one of the most painful scenes for me to see in all of the show, even more so than the later scene where he snitches on Clarke. There’s been a lot this season about “kings” forcing subjects to kneel - but instead of the “kneel or die” approach that Anders more or less used (while Sheidheda is using it in the most literal way possible), this is out of genuine belief. I  don’t know if I’m really buying this massive transformation that we see here and in the next scene. It’s just a bit too much. Maybe information about what it was that Belalmy saw when he went ‘into the light’ would help explain it better.

Cadogan is happy to use Bellamy to convince Clarke to cooperate, and informs him: “Your friends are here, they have gotten themselves in some trouble”. Maybe this adds up to the reason why Bellamy is uncomfortable when he sees them a bit later, because they’ve been bad - but only some of them were (Echo with her murders, torture and genocide attempt, the others - not really, except Hope, someone he doesn’t even know yet). But when he comes to see them, he looks broken, exhausted and numb after all his experiences. And probably wary of giving in to the “selfish love”. (His friendship with Doucette is presumably in line with his new faith, but he seems to think his friendship with Clarke is not? Is that his relationship with Clarke actually involves love, real love for an individual?) After finally reuniting with the people he had been trying to reach all that time on Etherea, he doesn’t even look happy to see them. To quote Bellamy from earlier in the episode,Sometimes, Bellamy Blake, irony is funny. This is not one of these times.

Meanwhile, his friends are in Cadogan’s living quarters in house arrest. Conveniently, it’s just Clarke, Echo and Octavia there - plus Gabriel, but the focus is on Bellamy’s reunions with the three women he named as the people he loved earlier in the episode. Raven is not there, neither are Miller, Jordan, Niylah or Hope. (The last time Bellamy saw Jordan, Jordan was the brainwashed one. Hey, what happened to that storyline? Did it end up as a casualty of the rewrites?)

They’re discussing what to do, and Clarke has decided to basically sacrifice her life so the others could escape. We know that Clarke is a very selfless person, but  the way she’s been increasingly casually deciding to sacrifice herself feels a bit disturbing - as if she’s stopped caring about her own life or hoping for happiness. At this point, her big character development would be to choose happiness and try to have what she wants. Even her “selfish” actions up to this point were mostly about trying to protect others. We haven’t even seen her show much emotion this season - as if she was on autopilot - except for her early grieving Abby earlier in the season, and moments when she’s silently grieving Bellamy, 

Cadogan is there to offer the carrot rather than the stick, and being a drama queen, doesn’t Clarke and the others that Bellamy is there, but lets him in. They are massively surprised but don’t notice something’s off, or rather, they seem to assume he is just physically exhausted and in pain rather than mentally/emotionally off, as he silently looks at Clarke and Octavia and then Echo. Camera shows close-ups of the reactions of the people who love him: Clarke’s, Echo’s and Octavia’s reactions before going back to Clarke. (Probably because she’s the main character, in case people have forgotten, and her relationship with Bellamy is at center of the show), Octavia is happy and proud tries to hug her brother, but the Disciples pull out weapons. Clarke ignores the weapons, counting on her status/leverage, and hugs him. 

She looks lovingly at him, with something we haven’t seen from her in a long time - happiness, that’s definitely not “best friend that I’m not attracted to” but “best friend I have naughty thoughts about”. (Only love can make you hug someone who must be smelling really badly at this point, considering Bellamy hasn’t washed or changed his clothes in over 3 months!)

This hug is different from any other Bellarke hug ever, since Bellamy is so numb, even when he hugs her back, but she is too happy to see him back to notice.  And then when she takes the chance to also get him up to speed and tell him about the Flame - he gets an incredibly sad look on his face. He is not unemotional now - but he has decided he must ignore and suppress those feelings, betray her trust and tell Cadogan the truth, because his faith and the so-called “love for all mankind” comes first.

Everyone is shocked when he calls Cadogan “My Shepherd” and then beyond shocked when he betrays them - and camera again shows Echo’s, Octavia’s and Clarke’s reactions, going back to Cadogan, and then the episode ends on a close-up of Clarke’s shocked face. Because, you know, she’s still the main character. And finally, now we can hopefully have a S7 storyline that properly focuses on the show’s protagonist and utilizes Eliza’s talent allowing her to show a range of emotions. When Clarke believed Bellamy was dead, he was someone she could hold in her memory and try to honor it by saving his sister and girlfriend - but this is a whole new way of losing him, right after thinking she got him back, and means real emotional turmoil.

Bellamy has become a true believer and decided to stop being himself. And the people who love him will now have to deal with his loss - in another way - all over again, and try to save him. I’m torn because this storyline offers huge opportunities for a “power of love” storyline right out of a fanfic, but I’m uncomfortable with the idea that it may come at the expense of having Bellamy be manipulated and subjugated to a white megalomaniac villain in the last season. But I hope and expect we will see genuine character development and re-affirmation of who Bellamy Blake is. Now, there are a lot of things Bellamy doesn’t know yet and that have contributed to him drinking Cadogan’s Kool-Aid (he hasn’t seen Cadogan’s dealings with his family or Second Dawn, or what he did to Becca, or Anders’ actions on Bardo, or the way the Disciples mistreat their own people, and he doesn’t know about Cadogan’s mistranslation of the Bardoan text), but I don’t think the resolution of this storyline will be about Cadogan or what Bellamy knows about his religion. I think it will be Bellamy himself and his relationships. Clarke and Octavia had big character arcs in season 5-6 where they had to deal with who they are, who they’ve become and what they want to be negating everything he is. He needs to finally really deal with his self-loathing and guilt and he needs to gain back trust in himself, the Bellamy Blake that others loved and trusted and relied on. He needs to feel loved and decide that love is strength and a positive rather than just ‘selfish’ force. (And who can show him that? Hint: not his girlfriend Echo, whose love he would definitely see as confirmation that love is selfish and destructive, as it makes a person do things like murder, torture and attempted genocide out of revenge. Another hint: probably the same person who gave him confidence and made him believe in himself and grow as a person, multiple times, all the way back in season 1 and again in season 3 and season 4, telling him he was a person that other follow because of his big heart and the way he can inspire people. And third hint - the same person Bellamy was saving - her physical self - in season 6, will be the one who’ll have to save him, mentally, save who he is., in season 7.)

Rating: 8/10 (could go higher or lower depending on how the cave visions are explained and what the outcome of this plot is)

[cellydawn]

Sans is a Darkner Theory (MASTERPOST)

I know that this theory has been touched on before, but I’d like to compile all the evidence from the original post with some additional stuff I found relevant into a single comprehensive post. To preface this, I would like to remind everyone that the merchandise based on Sans isn’t canon and that though Deltarune isn’t a direct sequel to Undertale, the Deltarune FAQ confirms that connections between the two are not precluded.

I’m going to divide this theory into three parts because I want to cover all my bases and there is an extensive amount of evidence, so without further ado, let me introduce you to my completely self-indulgent crazed ramblings!

WARNING: This is very long. Also, a bunch of speculation here so read at your own discretion.

1. Sans has connections to the Deltarune universe

Let’s list off what we know for sure:

Sans instantly recognizes the Player as a human and has knowledge of the Surface.

In the conversation at MTT Restaurant, Sans confesses that he knows the feeling of wanting to go home.

According to the Snowdin Shopkeeper, Sans and Papyrus showed up one day and “asserted themselves”.

In his lost soul dialogue, Sans says that “you’ll never see ‘em again”.

During his battle, Sans reveals that he “gave up trying to go back a long time ago” and that “getting to the surface doesn't really appeal anymore, either.”

After being defeated, Sans says that he’s “going to grillbys”. In Deltarune, the first place we see Sans is at Grillby’s. Sans’s house and the restaurant in Deltarune are the same as in Undertale (except for slight alterations like the lack of snow and...’sans)

Undertale!Sans and Deltarune!Sans have identical sprites.

After talking with the Clam Girl and learning of Suzy, you can go to Sans’s workshop and find a card sticking out from the back flap of the binder, described as a poorly drawn picture of three smiling people with the words "don't forget" written in lowercase. Deltarune’s credits song is titled “Don’t Forget”.

We can safely assume that Sans came from another place that is not the underground nor the surface; Sans misses his home and his friends there (presumably the people in the picture); Susie and Suzy are related somehow. Additionally, we can speculate that Sans and Papyrus may have arrived from another dimension. It might very well be the case that Sans originated from the Deltarune universe: Sans is completely resigned to the fact that he can’t alter the past no matter how hard he tries. Deltarune’s prophecy is all about inevitability. Sans’s defeatist attitude might stem from this.

Here’s some evidence that is more debatable:

River Person warns the Player to “Beware of the man who came from the other world”. It’s possible that the man in question is Sans.

I’ve noticed this isn’t brought up as much, but Sans’s word search is from ICE-E’s, which is a brand we only see in Deltarune. As far as we know, there is no trace of this brand in the Undertale universe. It definitely doesn’t appear to be one from a newspaper—it’s a distraction given to kids at restaurants.

BONUS: There’s a wacky inflatable mascot that resembles the ICE-E’s mascot in the dog shrine found in the skelebros’ house (console version)

During Shyren’s encounter, if the Player hums twice, the flavor text describes Sans selling tickets made of toilet paper. Now, we know that all the food in the Underground is made out of magic. Magic nourishes monsters, but it doesn’t pass through their bodies as waste. Why does Sans have toilet paper? 

Alphys seems to be in-the-know about Sans’s time-space shenanigans. In the epilogue of the pacifist ending, there’s some dialogue that suggests Alphys and Sans are quite familiar with each other. Both of them want to keep this a secret for whatever reason. In a neutral ending in which Alphys becomes the ruler, she is mournful of the deaths of Undyne, Alphys, and Asgore, but is glad that “at least Sans is here”. In the MTT quiz, if you pick “Don’t Know” to the question about her crush, Alphys reveals that she has done research on alternate universes and knows they exist. Both Sans and Alphys have connections to Gaster, who is quite prevalent in Deltarune. She, along with Sans (and coincidentally, the ICE-E word-search) are affected by Fun values and have their own Fun events. It seems a little random, but what if all the Fun events are Gaster-related? Are Alphys and Sans the two people mentioned in Entry 17?

So I think all of these pieces are sufficient in establishing Sans’s connection to Deltarune, though it is still unclear whether Sans came from Deltarune into Undertale or vice versa, OR Sans showed up from yet ANOTHER universe. That’s a theory for another time, though. On to the next part!

2. Sans has abilities/properties exclusive to Darkners

Some of the basics:

Sans can teleport, that is, use “shortcuts”, as evidenced by appearing both in front and behind the character in Snowdin, going to Grillbys, chasing after Papyrus in the wrong direction during the Pacifist ending scene, etc. Though Rouxls Kaard is shown to teleport, Lancer’s style of teleporting most closely resembles Sans’s. There are multiple instances in which Lancer stays ahead despite the Player passing him (for example, Lancer sneaking a sign past the party despite there only being one way to the door).

The door to Sans’s room greatly resembles the fast-travel doors that only Darkners are able to create. If you get the key to his room, the pitch-black and seemingly-endless walkway is not dissimilar to that of the supply closet. Papyrus also happens to liken Sans’s room to “another world”. All of the weird junk could be representative of various landmarks in the dark world.

Sans can manipulate shadows as seen through his first appearance (I also like to think that this is the reason why his “eye-lights” can disappear). This is most prevalent with Ralsei, Lancer, and the King obscuring parts of their body with shadows.

Darkners have colored portraits. At first glance, you would assume Sans doesn’t have one, but his head is already—conveniently—black and white.

If that wasn’t enough, let’s take a look at Sans’s battle in the Genocide Route. The most distinguishing feature of this fight is Sans’s ability to dodge your attacks, an ability that was thought to be unique to him. As it turns out, Darkners are also able to dodge (provided that they are warned). In order to actually beat Sans, you need to tire him out, and once you have dealt the final blow, he runs away. Sounds familiar, doesn’t it?

I believe that Sans actually survives the encounter as well. I’ve seen people claim that when he goes off-screen, the “dusting” sound effect signifies that he dies. This is wrong. That sound effect plays at the end of every battle, regardless of whether you spared or killed an enemy. I’d like to point out that the EXP you gain from the battle does not confirm Sans’s death. If you pick on Loox, you can get 5 extra EXP stacking up to 3 times. This means that killing an enemy is not required for you to gain EXP. I’ll also include that the kill counter doesn’t go up once Sans’s battle is over. It’s believed that this is the case because of Chara’s interference, though I don’t personally agree.

Let me also present this tidbit that I see no one else talking about: unlike literally any monster in the underground (besides Flowey, but he doesn’t count), Sans HAS NO HP BAR. When he gets hit, the damage numbers are present, but the HP bar that should have appeared above him is absent. Darkners don’t have a visible HP bar when struck.

Here’s some stuff that’s a little bit more controversial/speculative:

Lancer more or less implies that Darkners bleed, though we haven’t seen any examples of this yet. Ralsei doesn’t correct him, however. We know that the monsters in the light world don’t bleed (“Does it hurt to be made out of blood?”), and Susie’s comment (“Everybody bleeds, right?”) could be read as her trying to look cool for Lancer. Then, does Sans bleed?

It has been confirmed by @nochocolate​ that the red coming out of Sans is the exact same red as his ketchup bottle. This is a deliberate choice, but it doesn’t completely deconfirm that it may be blood because we don’t have other instances of blood to compare it to. Additionally, there is a mention of both blood and ketchup from Noelle: "This isn't another trick, is it, Kris? Like when you put ketchup on your arms and told me it was blood?" This might just be Toby Fox poking fun at the fandom or intentionally misdirecting us—really, it could go either way.

Sans’s mouth doesn’t move at all while he talks. It turns out that there may be an explanation for this! In Undertale, you can see the mouths of face sprites move while words are being spoken.

However, in Deltarune, both Lightners and Darkners don’t feature moving mouths in their textboxes! In instances wherein the full-body sprites are shown (Papyrus date, Alphys date, literally all the battles), the mouths don’t move either. So while his expression rarely changes, it might turn out that Sans DOES actually move his mouth while speaking, we just can’t see it. I’m a bit iffy on this theory since it varies from monster to monster in the Light World. Moreover, in Undertale, while Mettaton’s mouth doesn’t move at all (I’m going to disregard this since he is a robot) it’s very peculiar that the same can be said for Alphys.

Seriously, why doesn’t Alphys’s mouth move at all?? This HAS to be intentional, all of the other characters with a face sprite have moving mouths. Deltarune!Alphys doesn’t have one either. This brings up more questions than answers: Are certain monsters Lightners and others not? Is Alphys a Lightner? Did her “research” on alternate universes involve her actually traversing the multiverse? Am I overthinking this? In any case, it’s more stuff linking her to Sans...

If it turns out that not all monsters are Lightners, then it makes sense that Sans is so devoted to Papyrus, assuming that Papyrus is, in fact, a Lightner. No other person’s death makes as much of a difference as Papyrus’s concerning Sans’s behavior towards you. Alternatively, if Papyrus is not a Lightner, then it stands to reason why Sans is so depressed—he has no way of fulfilling his purpose. “Sans”, after all, means “without”.

The Light World has virtually no indications of monsters being able to use magic. In Undertale, it’s stated that magic is a method of self-expression for monsters, yet the only magic we see in Deltarune is from within the Dark World. If we compare Deltarune!Toriel’s stovetop to Undertale!Toriel’s, we see that the flavor text has omitted her use of fire magic. Susie is able to send out magic ax attacks, but this is likely due to the nature of the Dark World. I need to clarify that she is not the one that casts the Pacify spell at the end of a “neutral” run; she realizes that the King is tired, and waits for Ralsei to finish the job. Her remembering Pacify is exactly what it means, and Ralsei comments on it because he is expressing surprise that she cared to remember the spell she made fun of him for. I’ll also point out that the lack of magic would be the reason why the monster-human war ended differently/didn’t even happen, therefore allowing monsters to reside on the surface. If Sans did hail from this world, he wouldn’t have magic or would have very limited magical capabilities if he isn’t a Darkner.

Here is a piece of dialogue from Sans about the Underground. Interestingly, he differentiates himself from monsters, though this could just be because he doesn’t want to lump in Papyrus with them. The King has a similar line (“Show my son the monster you REALLY are!”). Monsters are possibly complicit in Darkners’ imprisonment. Is it possible that Sans is also resentful? Do Darkners exist in Undertale?

I feel like this interaction is worth mentioning. It’s entirely possible that Darkners were sealed so long ago in the Undertale universe that nobody even remembers their existence. 

Going back to Papyrus, if Sans is a Darkner, then it’s important to mention that Papyrus is not. We see Papyrus turn to dust when he is killed. For that reason, it seems that Sans and Papyrus are not biological brothers. I think this actually makes a lot of sense given how different they look. Yes, it’s true that Sans and Papyrus both have a skeleton motif, but they don’t look remotely similar. The face shape, the jaw, the build, the height, the eyes, the nasal cavity—nothing matches! Each monster species look the same, hell, even boss monsters like Toriel and Asgore resemble each other. Compared to Papyrus, Sans seems a lot more solid (his gut) AND he’s almost completely covered up save for his face (what are you hiding under there?).

Their bone attacks are distinct as well: Papyrus’s have a more angular aesthetic compared to Sans’s rounded edges.

In comparison, Toriel, Asgore, and Asriel have the same exact fire attack.

So, if Sans is a skeleton-themed Darkner, what type would he be?

3. Sans is the Ace of Spades

This part of the theory is a bit more conjectural, but I think there is enough evidence to put this in here.

Let’s start with how Sans, Lancer, and the King are similar:

Their sprites have the same color scheme: black, blue, white, and grey.

They sport uneven and toothy grins, are round and chubby (“if you eat too many hot dogs…you’ll probably get huge like me”), and have a hood.

The spades seem to have a smile motif. The grinning “mouth” of the Card Castle has the same number of “teeth” as Sans. Additionally, you can see portraits of spade people inside the castle. They’re all smiling.

These three are the only characters that can freely shift between being completely submerged in the shadows and becoming visible. The ability to cloak their body with shadows is a trait thought to be shared by all Darkners; Ralsei, after all, exhibits this all throughout our journey. What’s interesting is that there are clear parallels to Sans, Lancer, and the Kings’ shadows: they conceal their entire form and reveal it during their first appearances.

Sans and Lancer are shown to be able to teleport. I’m bringing this up again because it seems that not all Darkners can teleport without the use of a door as indicated by Ralsei’s confusion. If Ralsei has extensive knowledge of Darkner powers, and he is unaware that Lancer can teleport, then teleportation must be an ability unique to the spades, or, at the very least, card-themed Darkners.

Sans and the King’s fights are eerily similar. You need to fight/tire them out and listen to them monologue in order to progress. A major theme of both fights is how you can’t truly spare them. Appearing worn out from the battle, they appeal for mercy. Should the Player fall for it, they launch an unavoidable attack that deals catastrophic damage. Additionally, before his fight, the King employs the use of silent text, just like Sans during his judgments and his intimidating moments. Also worth noting: in both fights, the battle box is manipulated deliberately to suit the needs of the Player (for our last attack against Sans) and the King (his weird stomach tongue latching onto the box). Sans is also capable of stretching the box as seen with the attack before his special attack.

Lancer and Sans, in particular, parallel each other quite nicely. They are both playful jokers, they both own bikes, and both of these characters have a strange relationship with food (particularly with red condiments).

The two just so happen to have stands to sell questionable foodstuffs.

Sans is evidently constantly eating:

Undyne: “And his brother kept making 100’s of midnight snacks.”

Papyrus: “GRILLBY’S… IT’S DARK AND FULL OF GREASE. PURGATORY OF FRIES… HAMBURGER ABYSS… ANYWAY, MY BROTHER PRACTICALLY LIVES HERE.”

Big-Mouth: “Sans is interesting. He has told me about all kinds of incredible foods. But, despite his knowledge, he always orders the worst burger off the menu.”

And we know that Lancer barely eats at all. He doesn’t think that having three glasses of milk as his dinner is unusual, he’s not allowed to eat the Dark Candy, he pretends to eat the salsa in the stump, and he has to get fed worms by Rouxls because his father forgot to feed him. Sans and Lancer both have terrible eating habits. I’m not sure what this is supposed to mean, but you know, food for thought.

Why the Ace of Spades:

The designs of both Lancer and the King originated from @kanotynes​ who created an entire deck of cards. The Ace of Spades does not have a distinct design.

French manufacturers standardized the four playing card suits. “Sans” and “Lancer” are both French words.

It symbolizes uncleanliness and depression (Sans’s socks and his room, the latter is pretty self-explanatory), omens (River Person’s warning, Flowey alerting us to not reveal our abilities to him, “you’re going to have a bad time”), and death (the reason for his skeletal nature).

In Blackjack, Aces have a numeric value of 1 (matching his stats) or 11 (the same number of unique pre-battle dialogue from Sans, though this may just be a lucky coincidence). The Eleventh Hour is an idiom meaning nearly too late. Sans’s fight is your last possible chance at quitting before the world ends and your game gets corrupted.

Remember that bit where Sans has toilet paper? In the Card Castle, you can see that a bathroom, the Royal Flush, is occupied. Darkners have to digest their food. On a related note, the royal flush is a poker term for an A(14), K(13), Q(12), J(11), and 10 hand. Interestingly, in the sequence before his “special attack”, we see Sans disappear and reappear at the edges of the screen 14 times (again, probably just a neat coincidence).

The ace is paradoxically the least and most valuable card (in Blackjack, Poker, etc.), paralleling Sans being the weakest and strongest enemy.

Ace of Spades also represents “an end”, and Sans is there at the end of our journey, judging us before Asgore’s fight. He is also responsible for initiating the phone calls at the end of every neutral route.

Okay, this one is a little bit of a joke. In this deleted tweet, Toby said that Sans would be too lazy for sex, causing fans to speculate that he is “ace” lol.

BONUS: Sans was originally intended to run a casino. This one’s a bit self-explanatory. Also explains his poker face.

The most important piece of evidence, however, is this: the French expression fagoté comme l'as de pique means "(badly) dressed like the ace of spades." Checks out.

On Gaster Blasters:

Gaster Blasters might have a spade motif. If you connect the natural curves of the eyes and the top of the nose ridge, you get a spade shape. The GB's crests resemble King Spade's crown and possibly the neck/shoulder part of his cape.

A GB's nose resembles King Spade's when he isn't snarling at you; this might also apply to Sans if he stopped smiling (mouth shape affects the shape of their noses). 

Also on the topic of noses, Sans, Lancer, and King Spade's noses translate to the same shape in their overworld sprites.

The fog from Snowdin, which has been theorized to be either a front-facing GB or Sans' face (and honestly I lean more towards it being Sans's face because of the eye shape) has a hidden line underneath and above the nose. Perhaps Sans resembles the Gaster Blasters and the Spades more than we anticipated?

HMMMMMMMMMMMMM.....

[aotopmha]

I'm really starting to disagree with the reaction I see around Mikasa's indecisiveness.

At first I got it and I still get it a little bit - the phrasing is mostly used as a proxy for Mikasa getting little to do, but I also don't agree with the interpretations of her character that sometimes come out of those complaints.

Mikasa never was this super proactive Battle Goddess to me. She was always what you call a "reactive character".

Conflict came to her and she dealt with it, rather than jumping into everything herself.

Since she lost her first one, her purpose in life was to protect her family - people even now reduce it down to her just being protective of Eren, I and many others have always thought it's more complicated than that, but now I personally think there is even more to it than that.

At this point her not just being protective of Eren actually is also a pretty common perspective around, too.

I think it's about stuff past that - the specific way she cares and why.

The people around her are the ones who give her meaning and direction and thus she acts depending on how they do.

Where they go, she goes.

Her moment of proactivity in Trost was her way of releasing tension; a reaction to trauma, not her "taking action" and again and again I see this cited as some super cool moment.

She was actually falling apart on the inside and her ultimate resolve was still to go on living for those she loved - in that case, Eren's memory.

She is someone who unconditionally lives for others and to me the contradictions around the criticism of her character start here.

People want her to grow to be more independent, but because of the nature of her trauma, her journey to independence will inevitabily contain a period of indecisiveness.

That's just how this kind of trauma works.

Eren is a constant, her friends are a constant. Tearing her away from that safety will naturally lead to indecision and she will have to do work to find another reason to act that doesn't involve them.

If you are torn away from the people you live for, you are going to be indecisive.

People don't want the resolution to be that she just cuts herself away from her connections and kills Eren, either because that might come across as her story just being about suffering and going through pain over and over again.

But for her to grow more proactive and "learn to be more decisive" as Armin roughly puts it, she has to go through a separation.

She can't learn to be more proactive when she is in state of mind where her only purpose for living is living for others.

So it's a catch 22 situation, where the solution to both is separation, but separation will lead to indecisiveness.

Which is then called meekness and what people usually call "sexist writing" because it involves the female character growing passive, but these are actually two very different things.

Meekness is delibrate passiveness and not even wanting to do anything, indecision is confusion and not knowing what to do.

Mikasa wants to do something, she just doesn't know what to do.

"What should I do?" she asks.

"What could I have done to prevent this?" she asks.

Naturally, what is meant by meekness is also a lack of retorts. She doesn't go around disturbing or questioning the chain of command or escalating situations for the worse with her remarks post-timeskip anymore like she did with Rico and Ian during Trost, with Kitz Weilman (the "my speciality is slicing flesh" situation), Levi in the forest (she got his ankle sprained), the "I have no heart to spare" when chasing Eren or even standing against Levi in the serumbowl.

This kind of "meekness" is actually something basically everyone in this story is going through right now, but for some reason people just mostly keep pointing at Mikasa as if she's the only character that way, but I get it, cold and sharp-tongued Mikasa is probably better written for some because well, maybe it just has more personality for some.

Character development isn't good when it "takes away" stuff you like the character for in the first place and people like the sharp tongue of the single-minded teenage Mikasa.

I'm really happy this chapter actively made her indecision as part of her character, before I might've thought Isayama just didn't know what to do with her at points - I can definitely see that complaint for the Uprising arc, especially, but now it's clear her indecisiveness is the point and Mikasa has a new thing going that's not just about her relationship with Eren. She will have to find a purpose to act and goal to strive towards when everyone she personally cares about is gone and I think we might've just seen that purpose when she called out Eren for causing so much harm to others.

She would live so no child would have to suffer like she has and could live a happy life.

This chapter actually made me kind of tear up for her.

I'm not even sure I like Armin calling her out for not being The Independent Woman Who Needs No Man because everyone she cares about is being split apart from her and relationships with other people are everything to her. Taken in a certain way, it could be just read as "stop having feelings".

Sasha died and she was sitting by her grave, holding her head because of a headache, experiencing the same pain she did all over again as she did with her parents, Eren's parents, as with Eren back in Trost and Armin in Shiganshina.

But now that everyone she cares about is going their own direction, she is helpless.

So, as said, her arc is about her finding direction again and learning to stand on her own feet and I think she will.

That... or we'll go the negative character arc route and she'll go insane from loss and isolation, which I don't think feels like the direction the story is going.

Oh, but Levi is like her and he doesn't have such an extreme reaction!

Well yeah, but Levi's principles are different and his arc is different.

I'd even argue that Levi doesn't even have an arc - we just learn how his principles developed, which is prioritizing survival at all cost (which he learned to do in the underground city) and don't regret your decisions (which according to No Regrets is from Erwin). Maybe he softened up a little bit, but even then we saw he already had a "soft side" the moment he was introduced.

Levi could've developed a unhealthy relationship with Erwin given more time, but his childhood was never defined by trauma and living for other people. It was trying to stay alive. The youngest we saw him, he was malnourished and taken in by a serial killer. A different arc.

Here you could argue why Isayama just didn't make Levi the same character, in which case you could bring up the good old sexism word, but also that he wanted to write each character differently.

Mikasa is the only female or male character that values the relationships she has that much except for, well, at this point, Eren. Whose perspective is deeply ingrained in experiencing loss just like Mikasa's. He wants to genocide the whole world so his friends could live.

Mikasa's arc is specifically *about* the trauma of losing someone dear to you and what it can do to a person and why it does that.

Those she loves are Mikasa's safety blanket and now they're all basically gone.

Sasha is dead and Historia is isolated from this incident.

Armin is panicked and stuck in his mind between all the possibilities, so he runs off on his own to get something done in his mind - Connie, Annie. It's all swirling together in his mind, in panic, when Mikasa is looking for support.

Connie ran off on his own because of his own trauma.

Jean is probably the most grounded right now, but stuck with a lunatic extremist and paralysed into indecision himself.

Hange and Levi are also off somewhere else.

This is the first time Mikasa is truly standing on her own and isolated and it made me sad.

I guess you could call me sexist, but I feel like her not knowing what to do in this situation is pretty human and delibrately good writing.

It just makes sense to me and I don't see this apparent "meek" turn Mikasa's character has taken, when she has always been a reactive character.

The "no heart to spare" teenager Mikasa is the better character for some because her character gives the illusion of "agency" because of her assertive, sharp dialog, but she's never been to actively go and do something that doesn't involve what she cares about.

But it's kind of hard to do that when the people you actually say these things for either told you they hated you or are preoccupied with their own issues and scatter off on their own.

For who will you go on a suicidal rampage, use your "speciality to cut flesh" for and to which enemy will you "spare no heart" when you have nobody left to fight for?

Man, writing this made me sad. All Mikasa wants to do is to be with those she loves.

Once again my full chapter thoughts will be out once the CR version/other versions are out.

There was also some nice juicy Annie stuff, which I'm looking forward to digging into.