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who-is-page · 9 months

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hey! i'm new to this community so im so sorry if this is rude. i just heard about otherkin and therians from sophieinwonderland? but she said things about how being attracted to otherkin and therian people is like zoophilia and stuff. i'm sure those posts are still up on her blog if you want to look. anyways, that made me feel weird? so that's why i'm asking you. you seem to know a lot of things? based on my vibe check. so i was just wondering what your thoughts on this are.

I've had sophieinwonderland blocked for a really long time now, so I had to take a quick jaunt through her blog to check this-- I'm guessing you're referring to this post from 2022, where she says "Zoophilia means an attraction to animals. [...] I think we can all agree that biological nonhuman animals cannot consent and that bestiality is wrong. But what actually constitutes zoophilia is so much murkier. [...] if attraction to animals is zoophilia, is attraction to animal-identifying biological humans?" (It's important to note that Sophie states elsewhere on her blog that the TL;DR of what she was trying to convey in this post and the related debacle surrounding it is that she doesn't believe in thoughtcrimes, doesn't want non-offending paraphiles harassed or attacked, and supports human-bodied animal-persons in relationship with other consenting human-bodied adults. These are all pretty reasonable stances to hold, all things considered, and we don't want to conflate her with actual Zetas and bestialists-- she just seems to accidentally be repeating some questionable rhetoric without realizing it, because she isn't familiar with the therian community and its unique missing stairs in this regard. Source)

So from an outsider perspective, regarding folks who aren't particularly familiar with the otherkin and therian communities and who don't know better, this can seem like a genuine point or a fair question to bring up. What people don't actually often realize is that not only is this not true, but this sort of rhetoric is actually most often used as a bestialist dogwhistle. Let me explain.

So first off: no, having a partner who is an otherkin, a therian, a non-human fictionkin, or who otherwise is a human that identifies as an nonhuman animal does not make someone a zoophile nor a bestialist. Having sex with your human-bodied consenting adult partner is not bestiality. Loving them for who they are is not zoophilia. Zoophilia is, first and foremost in this context, an attraction to real-life actual animals. Things like thinking Mufasa LionKing is hot, or being a murrsuiter, or following a therian on OnlyFans, doesn't count.

(For those interested, there actually is a specific orientation term for people who are strictly alterhuman4alterhuman-- the term is "Medusan," it was coined in 2018, and it's actually more popular than you think.)

Now, here's where the unique problems of specifically the therian community comes into play, and why what sophieinwonderland is implying here is teetering close to an unintentional dogwhistle on her part, something she wouldn't have known because she's not a member of our communities. If you're not interested in the history aspect of this and why referring to therianthropy or otherkinship as potentially or inherently zoophilic is a dogwhistle, you can jump-ship here and I won't blame you-- I'm putting it below the cut for brevity's sake.

The therian community, if you're not aware, has had an issue in the past where several long-term, respectable members were revealed to be bestialists, either they themselves participating in bestiality or being knowingly supportive of those who do. These individuals were (and still are) also, unfortunately, in charge of or otherwise held leadership positions in some of the biggest and oldest therian and otherkin forums-- namely Therian Guide, OtherkinPhenomena (who shared a majority of its staff with Therian Guide), and the Werelist (who also shared staff with Therian Guide). You can check out my Therian Guide Beware for details and citations, because that's where most of this initial explosion of "WTAF" stemmed from.

When this all came out in roughly 2017-2019, it created complete community chaos. People felt betrayed, and rightly so. There were a lot of divisions in the community about where to draw the line, when, and how. And the bestialists intentionally made everything as messy as possible during the course of it all.

The bestialists largely justified their abuse through their own therianthropy and connection to animality, and when that didn't work, they pivoted to trying to include as much of the therian community under the "zoophilia" umbrella as possible in order to argue that it was natural or normal for therians to sexually abuse animals-- you can see an example of them doing that here, in Therian Guide owner DustWolf's baseless Twitter assertion that "60% of all therians are zoo[phile]s." (mirror).

For the record, no, 60% of therians are not zoophiles, and no current statistics from the community supports this. I wrote a Twitter thread in 2022 debunking this claim. But this also ties into the next point-- DustWolf isn't just referring to people who are attracted to real life animals. DustWolf is also referring to bestialists in this statistic, even if it's not immediately apparent.

The bestialists tried to paint this picture of all therians being pro-bestiality by trying to expand the definition of the term "zoophile" in public discourse and muddle its meaning as much as possible, to mean everything from "person who commits bestiality" to "person who had a crush on Nick Wilde as a teenager" to "person who experiences a sex drive and who also identifies as a nonhuman animal." They also used anti-bestiality backlash to try and lay claim on anyone who got caught in the cross-fire, playing the sympathetic shoulder to people who weren't bestialists or even zoophiles to get them to join up in their communities, and they coined terms like "zootherian" to try and reinforce a nonexistent connection between bestiality and therianthropy. It was, to summarize it succinctly, a complete clusterfuck. Nowadays, bestialists have also picked up queer social justice rhetoric and language to try and argue for the legalization of bestiality, though this wasn't as prevalent 2 years ago, which is its own issue.

Because of all this, assertions and implications that therians and otherkin are by default zoophiles, or that a majority of therians or otherkin are zoophiles, or that therianthropy and otherkinship can be intrinsically tied to zoophilia, or that zoophilia is queer and alterhuman, or even publicly identifying as a zoophile, is considered a major dogwhistle in the community. Historically when people who aren't just outright anti-kin have said these types of things to our communities, it's been to cover the asses of people who want to normalize and legitimize bestiality, or because the person in question is freely involved with communities and groups who have welcomed pro-bestiality attitudes. Saying that shit is a quick way to get blocked by a ton of alterhumans on most platforms. Sophie made a distinct division between "bestiality" and "zoophilia" in her commentary so it's obvious she didn't intend it that way, but it's still really not a great thing to say or imply because of the history behind it and the ways it's been used before.

So, to reiterate: no, people who date therians and otherkin aren't zoophiles, and people who say such are implying a lot more than they actively realize.

#Ask #Anonymous #long post

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entropy-sea-system · 5 months

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Anyways maybe its because I'm nonaesthetic allosexual but also alterhuman4alterhuman, but like some human standards of attractiveness in looks just don't make sense to me. Like, it seems like I more often just find people hot than necessarily 'good looking', and I find people sexually attractive from nonphysical traits like their voice or how they type or their personality too??

I've never really been able to find someone good looking in a way thats actually detached from sexual attraction. I also have some nontraditional interests I suppose seeing as how Im into fictional characters and objects also (objectum), and I find they often tend to look physically more appealing to me than people (maybe with the exception of my partners but honestly a lot of that is from associating their appearance with my sexual attraction to them and being in sexual relationships with them).

I make art sometimes, and pride flags digitally, and I really do enjoy making something that looks good, even if only to me. Sometimes its to the point that I find artwork or flags literally sexually attractive in an objectum way!! Like, I'm not fully disconnected from thinking about aesthetics, it just doesn't happen to be a separate attraction for me lol. And also its rare that I find an actual person hot just from their looks especially in nonsexual contexts tbh, which also influences this.

(-Rift)

#objectum #sex negative ppl dni #like I mean if you are going to go on abt how sex bad and evil just dont bother #allosexual #(Im alloaro atertiary btw)#atertiary #anaesthetic #nonaesthetic #a-aesthetic #self shipper #ah4ah #ahlah #allamorine #allox #vexillum #aterspec #atertiary spectrum #aspec

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