#and dont be fucking mean i'm not trying to start shit

[syresdcthings]

People ashamed of shipping brutal Batjokes... dont be. Its amazing.

I just decided to rebinge some comics and holy shit. I never processed just how fucked up Joker was in his early days, and he was still working out all his kinks. He wasn't making these big flashy plans to get Batmans attention, no, this was when he was truly killing for the purpose of wanting to.

Brave and the bold (2023) is a good example for what I'm trying to show here. The shit Joker does in that is crazy and it goes in DETAIL.

I mean he beats the living crap out of Batman, since he's also figuring out his own act at this point. Everyone is clearly petrified of this guy and Batman should just wanna throw him into a dingy cell to suffer for the crap he did. But he doesn't want to! Instead, he finds himself trying to find that high from the altercation at the bridge again, the one where he was trembling in his armour and death was staring right at him.

Joker didn't fall inlove first. Batman did.

Bruce doesn't just want Joker to suffer, he wants to suffer with him. He wants them to fight, to roll around on cold wet concrete and claw at eachother until they are both red and it'll be the most intimate thing Batman has experienced. Being smothered with someone else's blood, a body underneath him, breath just as laboured as his own.

And he'd lean down, probably. Checking his heartbeat, as if he couldn't see he was alive from the way his pupils grew 10 sizes. And then he'd relax his muscles, but it'd be such a little change you wouldn't be able to tell, but Joker would. And he'd push the Bat off of him, and he'd run away, and it'd start all over again.

Edit: just wanted to say that the, "Being smothered with someone elses blood, body underneath him, breath just as laboured as his own." Segment was supposed to be read like "Being drenched in the blood of a body underneath me that is still alive and breathing just as hard as i am." As in, Batman takes pleasure in being able to beat Joker raw but have his heart still beating underneath him. He loves getting him specifically to the brink of death whilst still not losing sleep over it (unless ofcourse he finds a bit TOO much pleasure in it.)

[scarrletmoon]

okay i know the Discourse™️ has been going on for way too long at this point, but

i think some people outside of the OFMD fandom don’t actually get why we’re particularly annoying about this show

OFMD is not the first queer show to ever exist. if anything, it's a late entry in decades of queer media. over a year and a half since the first few episodes aired, everyone knows that OFMD is queer. that doesn't make it particularly special

but back in March? this is the trailer that dropped in February of 2022, 2 weeks before the premier. if you're used to seeing queer chemistry in shows that aren't intended to be queer, you might see the hints between Ed and Stede here. but to most people? it's just a silly little pirate comedy. just guys being dudes. the trailer doesn't even hint at the other 2 canonical queer relationships in the show -- the closest it gets suggesting romance is the music and the pink in the poster

so when people watched this show in March 2022, they went into it expecting subtext and nothing else. to them, it was like watching Sherlock or Supernatural or Merlin in the 2010s. if you were in any of those fandoms -- especially Sherlock and Supernatural -- you know what it was like; constant jokes at our expense, being mocked for creating explicit fanwork, made fun of by the creators and within the show itself. if we saw queer subtext, that was our problem. this was a time when you pretended NOT to be in fandom, for fear of ridicule. we kept our fanwork to ourselves, we DID NOT share it with the cast, and we accepted that our favourite ships would probably never be canon. maybe one day, if we were lucky, we'd have a show where the subtext wasn't mockery as much as deliberate foreshadowing -- but that had to be YEARS away

right?

OFMD was never billed as a queer show, not in the beginning. there was no LGBTQ+ tag on (HBO) Max, it wasn't on anyone's list of upcoming queer shows in 2022, it flew under the radar through most of its first season. this was a show about pirates, and sure, some of them were queer. but not the LEADS. if you think they're romantically involved, that's must be fandom brain poisoning

except the 9th episode aired, and they kissed. and the show said "you're not crazy for thinking they have chemistry because they really do. it's been a romance this whole time". and in the 10th episode, Stede realizes that he's in love

(not mandating you watch this clip if you don't care for the show, but there's something that feels particularly earth shattering about no one saying the word gay but knowing that Stede's realizing he is, that it's completely unambiguous and explicit in a way that only straight romances are usually allowed to be)

this is why people freaked out about this show. no one knew. even the creator, David Jenkins, was surprised when WE were surprised that it was gay for real -- he set out to write a love story, using all the tried and true beats of a rom com. he'd never even heard of the term queerbaiting. he looked at historical Blackbeard and Stede Bonnet and thought "oh, there's something here" and just...wrote that, with very little fanfare, like it was inevitable. like it was obvious. of course Jim and Pam end up together. of course Buttercup and Westley end up together. what kind of disappointing ending would it be if You've Got Mail ended with the main characters just going their separate ways?

so of course Ed and Stede are in love

look, i get it. we're annoying and won't shut the fuck up about this show that seems mediocre at best. i watched the whole thing back in march, thought "huh, that was cool" and was sure that i'd forget about it in a few days

an hour after looking at fanart on twitter, i was lost in the fucking sauce

there's just so much to unpack from a mere 10 episodes. it covers racism, toxic masculinity, gender expression, sexuality, trauma and abuse. and i don't think we should overlook the fact that the non-white characters in this show get to be fully human in a way i haven't seen in my favourite shows in recent memory

additionally, most OFMD are 25 or older. we're not people who've been spoiled by queer rep, who don't get how hard it used to be, how you'd have to grovel for scraps, how shipping and fanfiction was a way to find queer rep where we thought there never would be. we've been here. we're annoying about this show because for a lot of us, it's the first time we've been treated like our queerness isn't an anomaly that needs to be relegated to its own section, that needs to be praised for the bare minimum of acknowledging that we exist. it's not pulling punches to avoid scaring away a straight audience. it just is.

OFMD for me is like when i watched Black Panther for the first time and realized that this is what white people felt all the time. have there been other black superhero movies? of course! does Disney fucking suck? BOY does it. but that was the first time i got to sit in a movie theater and watch a mainstream film that looked at Africa and said "look at how beautiful you are, exactly as you are"

and idk. i think that's really cool

[tori-artemis]

I don't usually make posts when I'm upset about something (or like, at all) but honestly I'm just. Really sick of the Loki fandom as a whole. Like I'm just tired of all the pettiness and bullshit. And tbh it's on both ends of the Loki series/Ragnarok split. Both pros and antis.

This isn't so much a vague post as it's a vent post for me. You see, I've been having these feelings about the Loki fandom overall for months now, and I've seen certain posts from the positive side where I just want to - jump in and say something, or at least speak for myself as an ""anti"" (hate that word btw) bc the amount of generalizing I've seen that goes on over there wrt ppl who dislike the show is just - well it's fucking frustrating. Like it annoys me bc I've heard every dumb overgeneralization since the show first came out, from not wanting Loki to move on bc we're oh-so-traumatized to we're just bitter bc the show didn't go the way we wanted/our hcs of Loki weren't validated, etc.

I think one that annoyed me the most was the claim that ppl who hate/dislike Sylvie as a character do so out of misogyny. And like - maybe there's some truth there wrt how the character/actress tend to be bombarded with gendered slurs, and yes that's not cool, but I've never referred to Sylvie or Sophia as any slur. (In fact I don't even hate Sylvie - what I do hate is how the writers have set her up as a "superior" contrast to Loki, which to me seems very intentional on their part, particularly wrt the Trauma Olympics™ as in "Sylvie had it so much harder" 🙄 - but I digress). Yet I can't help but feel like I'm being lumped in the "antis are misogynists" bin every time I read any of those posts from the pro side, simply bc I dislike the way a character was utilized. The way those posts are written, the way they sound - it's very black and white, overgeneralizing an entire group of fans, there's no nuance or side notes or disclaimers of "hey - I know not all of y'all are like this, this is just about some I've encountered" - not even in the tags, nothing. And I've just wanted so badly to jump in and say: "hey, anti here and I'm not like that" but I refrain, bc I've grown so tired of all the fandom infighting and discourse that I usually don't have the energy to get into it. So when I see someone from that side of fandom jump on a post and say how they dislike being overgeneralized as a fan, and how they feel like they're being misrepresented, or condescended to... I can't help but feel kinda upset by that, ngl. Part of me just wants to say "yes it sucks, but recognize that your side (if not you yourself) does it too. Some of you folks do it too."

Like I've read posts implying/stating that antis who hate the show lack critical thinking skills - and like, look, there might be a bit of truth wrt, say, calling Sylvie an outright abuser (and even I've been a little guilty of agreeing to view her as a person with toxic traits as opposed to the enemy-to-lovers trope she clearly falls into - tho I still can't really fault myself for not being able to take that romance seriously due to how damn rushed and forced it felt - but that's besides the point). But there's just something about the way a lot of these posts are worded, like yes some posts are pretty reasonable, but others are practically dripping with condescending sentiment (for lack of better words) as if we're fucking stupid for having emotional reactions to media as opposed to critical reactions, when isn't that the point of media and art, to illicit emotions? Like yes, the story might be trying to say something (and it might epically fail in doing so, which is how I view the show overall) but it's also meant to move ppl. And if it fails to do so, or it garners an unintended reaction, or the characterization is too inconsistent or the story telling itself is rushed/filled with inconsistencies then can you really blame fans for, well, being blindsided by disappointment/their emotions as opposed to critically analyzing it? And yes I know this is a matter of opinion, but still.

(Like sometimes a story can be extremely well written overall, and very well thought out and fans will just be oblivious to, choose to ignore or even outright refuse to pick up on the symbolism within a story, or the internal motivations/conflicts within a character, or how a character progresses/character arcs in general. Sometimes fans will even completely and intentionally misread a character in their entirety, and the role they play within a story, no matter how skilled and how excellent the writing is within a piece of art. And sometimes fans will just overall fail to realize the major themes/hints that a writer carefully lays out. Yes this is a thing, and one I've been made aware of in the particular fandom that I'm about to join.)

But then there's stories that are just... lazily/half-heartedly written at best, and so I just don't understand where pro stans get off by being condescending to ppl like me who just couldn't be immersed due to all those flaws in storytelling. Especially when I didn't get enough out of it to even see where a lot of these conclusions fans seem to have drawn from it. Like there are some inconsistencies within the story itself, there are things that just don't make a whole lot of sense, there are many contradictions, I didn't just make them up. And again I know, everyone interprets media differently, but I don't really see what a lot of pro fans have taken from the series, bc I personally don't think its there. And I really don't appreciate being thought of as some kind of imbecile for not "getting it" when the media in question is, objectively... not all that great tbh. And I'm being absolutely neutral when I say that, like I'm literally not even hating here.

And like I could've easily have turned around and made a bunch of posts stating how pro fans are "stupid" for putting so much thought into a piece of media I personally find to be stupid or just lacking in general, but I haven't. Bc one: that's a shitty thing to do to ppl, and two: it wouldn't even be true bc so many ppl who I consider very intelligent have enjoyed this show, and do put a lot of thought into analyzing it, so despite me not really seeing where they're coming from I want to respect that. And look, it's not like I haven't had those presumptuous thoughts or knee jerk reactions, bc yeah I am in an echo chamber too, and I'm no saint - I'm definitely human and I've had some overgeneralized, uncharitable takes. But I recognize this about myself, I don't post that shit. Which is why I get so upset when I see so many other fans do just that.

Also there is a definite misuse of the depiction of torture, which is used to convey certain themes, and that's very unfortunate, and IMO very bad writing/storytelling. I probably would've been a little more charitable towards the series overall if the Sif-beatdown timeloop scene had been scrapped altogether like the writers seriously should've considered doing (due to the fact that torture has so many misconceptions and is grossly excused in the majority of media which has unfortunate real world consequences) and instead focus more on Loki confronting his fear of being alone, if that truly is what the intention for that scene was. Like yes, some antis might go overboard wrt the messaging within the show, but when it comes to things like the atrocious time loop scene... that's not a made up thing we just happen to pull out of nowhere, that's something the writers put in there and therefore, yeah that's pretty fucked.

Then on the other side I'll find myself liking a post from a negative series fan bc I'll agree with the overall sentiment of it, only to unlike it right after reading the tags bc they've said something like "ppl who like this show/movie/etc are stupid" or "if you ever defended or even enjoyed TR fuck you" - and like??? WTF. I understand disliking the show or whatever but why the hell would you brush over an entire group of real, actual people as "idiots" for simply liking a piece of media??? Like - do I think the show was a disjointed mess? Yeah, I do. Do I think it was poorly written? Yes. Do I even think the reasoning behind a lot of these writing decisions was really fucking stupid on the creators part (or at the very least, that they failed to convey their ideas clearly)? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean anyone who's ever enjoyed the show is stupid for doing so, and I say this as someone who does have the knee-jerk reaction to go "how could you like that show, it sucked so much!"

But like, at the end of the day I understand that ppl take different things out of media. And just bc you find something so stupid or unwatchable, doesn't mean others will, and that's okay bc ppl are different and have different tastes and IDK how ppl don't fucking get that??? Like why is this even a hot take when it's literally just a fact???

It's shit like this that makes me feel like leaving the fandom all together. Which I don't really want to do, bc despite everything wrong with fandom and despite my own personal disappointment with the latest Loki/Thor franchise installments I still really love Loki as a character, and I still want to write fic revolving him. I even still want to make friends within the Loki fandom bc that's literally why I created this blog in the first place, to befriend other Loki fans, like I could've easily stayed being a lurker within the fandom but regardless I think at this point it's farfetched to want this bc the fandom's just way too split and way too hostile and way too fucking eager to be uncharitable and condescending af. And I'm just tired. I'm just... really really tired of the pettiness, the condescending attitude a lot of fans seem to fucking have for anyone who might think differently from them.

I'm tired of the gatekeeping - on both sides. It's on both sides. Because saying "real Loki fans would never like/defend TR/the show" and "how anyone can claim to be a Loki fan if they hate him/his own show" aren't so far apart from each other, both sentiments basically say the same thing, just from polarized viewpoints.

And I wish more fans would just recognize that.

[skullzy20]

I am not exaggerating when I say I live with one of the worst cishet men I've ever met in my life and its horrible

Pretty big vent incoming in tags, just a warning. Feel free to scroll past /gen

[spiked-mall-goth]

heyyyyyy <3 <3 i feel terrible.

i had planned to stay off longer but i genuinely have had like three nervous breakdowns since i left bc right as i decided it was abt time i just chill for a little bit everything started happening all at once. so i came back to see my silly little internet friends, but like the second i logged back on some ppl were talking smack abt me sooooooooo... ya know. my day (two weeks) be so fine,, then BOOM my entire schedule fills up and i become hollow on the inside! (hey sorry like vent post n tags i need to get things out of my brain)

[kuiinncedes]

fngfdjngjdfkng

[the-acid-pear]

I'm hitting rock bottom <- dude whose belly aches so fucking much because he ate pork.

[mieczyhale]

one of the guys that runs a reaction channel i've been watching for ages just announced that they're ending the channel next year bc he got a job offer and he's getting married and he's thinking about his family and his future and like...

my son in christ you are 21

i literally want to fucking die

[yourbestdream]

I generally assume that the phrase "blood boiling" to describe anger is just metaphor and all that but then I get really genuinely angry about something and I remember that it is not.

[scooprtroopr]

just think we could all use the gentle reminder that fandom is supposed to be fun!

like you don't need to interact with every post you see, especially if its something you don't agree with, you don't need to be getting into arguments with random people on the internet. in fact you can just scroll past those posts, block those people, just ignore them, you don't have to read shit you don't want to!! and at a certain point if you're like actively just arguing with people on their posts you're just kind of an asshole! idk maybe go outside and touch grass babes

[cassandrattpd]

yesterday i had a panic attack at work and sobbed for over an hour at my desk in front of all of my coworkers bc i was frozen to the spot and couldn't like...move myself to a different area at the very least. and i embarrassed the fuck out of myself and now i'm afraid of the new job that i loved 🙃

[xxlelaxx]

I'm so used to stuff just working out last minute... I'm starting to get worried this time it won't. But I'm sure it will. It will be okay. Like always.

[two-bats]

sooooo sick of my grandfather thinking he can give my stuff away to my uncle & his girlfriend.

[j-esbian]

thinking about the time i was criticizing a male fantasy author for not including many female characters (and all but one were incredibly generic) and people were really like "be nice to the author, he's said he doesn't know many women in real life :/" like. yeah i can tell

[silenthillrn]

Lmaoooo

[pokemonthingsandstuff]

The ability to repair things by hand is an absolutely crucial part of being a traveling trainer.

You'd think more people would believe me about this. Like, I've met so many young challengers that don't believe me. "I'm not going to take advice from a guy who took over a year to do his league."

Oh my Gods, it absolutely did take me a year and a half! That doesn't matter! I got through it more intact that most people!

Look, it sounds unbelievably dumb at first, but trust me when I say you're going to need to sew your own stuff. (For reference, always be on the ground for that. Don't be in a tree.)