#and how much they interact with palamedes + camilla

[lmaster37]

finished my reread of gideon the ninth. what a stunningly, horrifyingly, gut-wrenchingly amazing book. i am in shambles

[harrowharkwife]

i'm so used to there just being random unidentified bones laying around everywhere in these damn books that it finally occurred to me, just now, to wonder where the bones on new rho came from. y'know, the bones palamedes always tried to teach nona necromancy on.

they're his.

palamedes, who always loved teaching, living on borrowed time in a body that's not his own. palamedes, mentoring, teaching- parenting, by sixth standards, mind you. and that boy is sixth, through and through.

and the entire point of teaching nona necromancy in the first place was to try and determine if nona is, well, nonagesimus, right? so it has to be bones, it can't not be bones. bones are, like, her whole thing.

but they're not in the nine houses, anymore. things are different, on new rho.

they burn bones here. dig up the cemeteries. a society terrified of zombies will evolve to dispose of its dead differently.

the only bones he has access to now are his own. (camilla wouldn't let anyone take them- skull or hand, doesn't matter. they're still him, and she doesn't let go, remember? it's her one thing.)

palamedes woke up every morning wearing someone else's body to then gently place the shrapnel of his own in the cupped palms of a girl who's the closest thing he'll ever have to a daughter and try to teach her- how did the angel put it, again? normal school, as much as possible, for as long as possible.

(but hey, in a roundabout way, at least it's a chance for him to touch camilla again, right? nevermind that she's not there to feel any of it because he's in the driver's seat, that he can only stay for fifteen minutes at a time. it's atoms that belong to camilla touching atoms that used to belong to him, and that's close enough. he'll take what he can get, these days- if she can be their flesh, he can be the end. so what if holding his own bones is a mindfuck? so what if looking at them makes him nauseous? surely he can suck it up and deal with it for fifteen minutes. it's the least he can do— his poor camilla was the one who had to scrape the bloody pulp of them off the floors of canaan house.)

(speaking of, here's a fun fact: we actually only see nona practicing with the bones one time, on-page. camilla's final line in that scene, before palamedes takes over, is none other than: 'keep going. there are some bones left.' ow!)

remember, too, that the only part of dulcinea, the real dulcinea, that palamedes ever physically touched, was her tooth- the one that ianthe gave him, pulled from the ashes cytherea burnt her down to. he only ever touched dulcie once, and it wasn't until after she was already gone, but that doesn't matter- it still happened, and you can't take loved away.

in this same roundabout, bittersweet, by-proxy sort of way, palamedes has been physically touched by nona, too: the atoms she currently occupies, touching atoms that he used to occupy, and never will again.

the main interaction we've seen between palamedes and his mother took place back on the sixth, with her acting as mentor and him as pupil: the two of them studying a set of hand bones, juno encouraging him every step of the way.

we know that harrowhark's "most vivid memory of her mother was of her hands guiding harrow's over an inexpertly rendered portion of skull, her fingers encircling the fat baby bracelets of harrow's wrists, tightening this cuff to indicate correct technique."

they're still small for a nineteen year old, but the wrists are bigger, in this new set of memories nona's making. and it's not an inexpertly rendered portion of skull anymore- it's a hand, now, albeit one crafted from [a piece of skull reassembled (painstakingly—passionately—laboriously reassembled) from fragments, manually, and not by a bone magician, from the skull of someone who, soon after death or symptomatically during, had exploded.] and the identity and origin of these bones is no mystery at all. they belong to palamedes, and he's consented to their use for this purpose, and that matters.

but the details are just set dressing, really. the foundation of the memory is the same.

palamedes and his mother, juno and her son.

harrow and her mother; pelleamena and her daughter.

nona and her father-mother-teacher; palamedes and his daughter.

[inkdragon1900]

The way each pov in the locked tomb series is from the view point of an unreliable narrator drives me crazy in the best way.

Gideon is an unreliable narrator because it’s so dependent on her first impression of a person. For instance Ianthe, Coronabeth, Palamedes and Camilla compared to everything we learn later. Even her viewing of Harrowhark feels so jarring compared to Harrow’s view of herself in htn. She also knows very little about necromancy so everything feels less like science and more like something out of her magazines.

Then we have Harrow. Who literally has gaslit herself and trying damn hard to gaslight the audience that the last book never happened. Everything is a lot less black and white compared to GTN but her shades of grey still feel muddy. her depression seeps through every interaction she has that by the time it switches back to Gideon’s pov I literally felt like I had whiplash.

in NTN we have the John chapters and Nona.

Nona for her part seems like she see’s everything in black and white but as we see her mentally mature instead of seeing just shades of grey she see’s everything in vivid color. She loves everyone the good and the bad. She’s an unreliable narrator in the sense that because she loves Cam, Pal, Phyrra and Corona in a black and white fashion in the beginning she does not acknowledge their flaws in their choices. It’s only when she’s emotionally matured that she can see everyone she loves for the three dimensional people they are.

John for his part is so unwilling to forgive that we see that it doesn’t stop at B.O.E or the trillionares it extends to the unwillingness to forgive himself for a situation that I genuinely think no one could have handled. He refuses to look at himself for what he is and what he was in that moment, a scared man with to much power. (Unlike the Lyctors who were quite on quote “playing with the reflection of stars in a puddle and thinking it’s space.” He’s thrown into space and rapid fire has to learn how to tread or die drowning.) He lies because he doesn’t want to appear insane or weak or horrible not realizing that by doing that he’s removing the sympathetic parts of himself. Like Mercy and Augustine said they most likely would have forgiven him if he had just told them he fucked up. His point of view is so similar to Gideons black and white thinking that it works so well contrasted with Nona’s pov.

I can’t freaking wait for Alecto

[arizonadarling]

I recently read Gideon the Ninth (And am now in love with it), and wrote my perception/opinion of the characters about midway through the book for a friend who recommended it to me. I figured other people might also enjoy it, so I'm copy pasting it here, below the cut off. Spoilers, obviously! I haven't read Harrow the Ninth yet so if you reblog or comment please don't mention spoilers c:

Crux: Daddy. My tormentor in need. The one who keeps me in my cell. Love him. My darling putrid lump of flesh. Aiglamane: My dearest. My sweet. The one who's approval I would die to just get an ounce of. My #2. Gideon: I love her. She's so cool and weird and herself, even when she's forced to be a mute and wear facepaint that's not hers. I love how lesbian she is. How she swoons so easily, and her stupid little sunglasses. Her relationship with Harrow feels so deep and it's cute to see it unravel at the seems. My #3 Harrow: My edgy little crow. Too determined for her own good, so small, yet so strong. When it hits you that she was digging in that garden all night, gods her character I just love it. Judith and Marta: Honestly I forget who these are most of the time, besides that they're from the military, and she got her teeth kicked in by Cam. Ianthe: I forget about her most of the time I'm afraid. Coronbeth: Gideon simps for her, and so shall I. She seems nice. Naberius: Fucking bellend. Isaac & Jeannemary: I love their "Hushed whispers". I would die for Jeannemary. Isaac would do the same so I think we'd be total besties. Peak codependence, but I suppose that's all cavcromancerlier duos? Abigail: who? Magnus: WHY DID THEY KILL HIM HE WAS SO NICE AND AAAAAAAAAAAA Palamedes: He may be a man but I'd let him hit just to have him lecture me tbh. Love him. Camilla: I like her a lot. I also misread the image the first time I looked at her, and mixed her up with the Seveneth, up to this point I had envisioned her as a giant buff woman with a bun. Still, the scene where she makes surry Griddy is okay was Dulcinea: My queen. I would gladly offer up my soul and life if it meant she would praise me and stroke my face like she did to Gideon's. Her body may be weak but her mind is oh so special. I love the interactions between Gideon and her, it's so cute how the tiny lady bosses Gideon around and Gideon just enjoys doing it because she's crushing so hard. #1 Protesilaus: Love him. Himbo. Precious. Hope he didn't die yet. Silas: He's alright, I guess. A bit of a stuck up prick but he makes up for it with his cavalier: Colum: I like him a lot but I don't really know why? He hasn't done much. Every time I see his name I go heck yeah though.

[phalangemedes]

CAMPAL LIT ANAL 🔥🔥🔥

To start off with, a personalised character debrief, of sorts, so the nonsense I'm about to spout stems from my known perception of them rather than just inherent batshit:

PALAMEDES SEXTUS: Tall ergo mouse faced man with the jokes and no brain shut off button. Burdened with gifted kid ego AND gifted kid guilt. Disabled even for a necromancer (not genetic turbo cancer for the nuke blast creation of thanergy but allergies, aerospace thick specs, lingering hint of the 'tism (social cues whomst, Mr that evil nun who thinks I'm a murderer is now my BEST FRIEND. Decided he was going to marry a girl because he liked that she was puzzley. His life partner is low emotive and he's never noticed.) (RE:marry Dulci the man is a glutton for a hyperfixation. 12 years and he's like 'we'll be married, Cam's my best man, I love them')). Bred for necromantic psychometry and groomed for Wardenhood (I used "groomed" because he was a literal child when they lauded his intellect as sufficient enough to egregiously test him to see if he was worthy of the title of Master Warden (spoilers, a 13 year old is a tiny baby child, no matter how cute, clever OR smug they are) This neatly slots into the "gifted kid" issues in that his parents ALLOWED this to happen, nay, encouraged it as an accolade. So I wouldn't say he was actively abused, but neither was he "cared" for, which is prime reason as to why he latched onto the only emotionally available peer AND was self sacrificial to a scary fault (re: ka-boom)

CAMILLA HECT: Tall TANK with too much inside to contain without fidget. Burdened with an inferiority complex 20 miles wide and a dunces hat of imposter syndrome. (Some of this is that The Sixth don't really respect swordhands, some of it is that in the capacity they DO respect it, she isn't ranked the most highly (RE: Not an Alexandrite. I assume Epeids? Cause she will class herself as competent and I think the Sixth aren’t stupid enough to put her in the spec ed class once she’s a Cav Prime.) Low EXTERNAL emotion, high energy, Palamedes is patently the words and she's happy with that. (As we go through HtN and NtN it reads more and more like alexithymia, more so when she just finally bursts the fuck into tears). Focuses a little too hard on being "useful", to the point and beyond of harm/self harm. Treats loyalty in a similar manner. A 0% or 100% kinda bitch. Close with her sister, but NOT her fathers, which is an interesting one because we have minimal backstory on that one, but it very much READ as a "forbidden" thing to be with Palamedes not just in the act of lyctorhood ascension but a 'They never understood' way. So her choosing to be Cavalier Primary was her choice AGAINST the wishes of other, societally and inter-familially.

ADDENDUM to Cam: She is a Carer, not in a motherly carer role, a Carer with a capital C. She cares for those with disadvantages in a MANNER I have witnessed IN the caring profession. This is MOST notable in the dynamics with Nona but she does the same with Pal. Where Pyrrha gives Nona fun dad treatment, with no less care, and Palamedes is the voice of gentle reason, consent and options, Cam is loving enforcement and active encouragement. It���s a theme. I’d like it highlit to those of you that have never had one or interacted in what is a COMPLICATED dynamic, a Carer is not a SERVITOR, they are a companion, they see you at your weakest and tackle ills with compassion. Is it a CHOSEN role.

Likewise Cam being raised female and not necromantically inclined (on planet eugenics and Your Eggs Are So Useful To Us BabyGirl) has just had humility beaten into her, but there are various places (Dr Sex coming to mind the most vividly, Pal trusting her with reconstruction of his skeleton, him trusting her opinion on things HE is looking at necromantically) where she is AS bright as him, but is not afforded the same societal perks as him as a necro.

tl;dr

Golden boy brain box who is struggling to live up to it, doing anything to be Good Enough. Held together by Cam's trust in him.

Black sheep who is struggling to perceive herself as worthy, doing anything to be Good Enough. Held together by Pal's faith in her.

Cool, we got it? ONWARD.

GENDER; PERCEPTIONS AND CHANGES:

Pre-Canaan through Canaan:

Palamedes Sextus, Master Warden of The Sixth House is a seeker of knowledge, his pronouns are forgot/to/eat (j/k.) I don't think he perceives himself as much of anything, until he's forced to. He is a man as The Master Warden and for Dulcinea, but I wonder how much of that is the "breeding program" ethos of the Sixth and how much of that is his OWN perception of himself because he's not a TRADITIONAL feeling man, even compared to other men in the canon. When I joke he's a he/him lesbian it's because he FEELS, not female, but feminine. In how he interacts with space and people, with the touchy-feeliness, with the way he expresses himself vociferous and poetically. 'Male' to him seems to be a mantle he wears above the neutrality of who he is and the femininity of his affections.

Camilla Hect, Hand of the Library, is a swordswoman and a cavalier and a hand. Cam is beautifully ungendered, but not in the same way as Palamedes is more of a... I feel like she'd be shocked to be told there's a binary? Just generally. She's practical, but butch, she's just Camilla. A she/her in the same way as a ship or a car. Not like a mother but like a deity -- and THAT is from Palamedes' perception of her. If he's a good boy, she's the Goddess he lays his altar out for. She’s not a ‘woman’ for anyone, not her house, not him. I think that’s important.

New-Rho:

I know there're alotta trans allegories here, but I'm gunna be a party pooper and say this is QUEER but not trans, not because it doesn't follow the path but because I don't think there is a Tomb binary to start with. There's a fluidity and flux IRL doesn't have (because people like their lil ticky boxes). And Pal doesn't feel different IN Cam, he feels the same. More him. He's more outwardly affectionate, he's more fussy and stroppy. He's him but Settled. I think he likes being whatever he is as Camilla. I think because he always liked Cam more.

Cam remains Cam. And I am delighted with this because Palamedes' influence within AND without is the same? I fucking love this woman, she popped out the womb like this and she's just keeping on trucking. Someone thinks she's a sex worker? Unfussed. Someone thinks she's fucking Crown? Mild distaste but that's more on the fact Corona is a biiitch. Dual daddying with Pyrrha? It's a TITLE, Cam seems to like titles. Maybe that's what it is, Camilla's self expression is a list of titles given to her by those who love her. The only one she’s picked for herself is Cavalier.

PAUL:

LEAST they/them they/them in the world. OBSESSED with them, they have the feminine energy that Palamedes carries but in Cam's body?? But the siege weapon threat of Cam?? Obsessed to get to know them more. I sense I shall kiss them on the mouth.

THEM AS CHARACTER ARCHETYPES VS "PEOPLE":

I think in part some of the issue with Palamedes and Camilla is how, on the whole, they seem to have been type cast as Male Boss and Female Minion. Because a tall dude with some authority and a quiet woman are put together and people get weird about that. (Even IRL. ‘Which one of you’s the fork?’ well firstly, she’s the knife, SECONDLY… that’s my tall glass of baby girl that speaks in a countertenor)

And this is a two fold issue:

THE FIRST: The Necromancer and Cavalier dynamic as portrayed by Muir.

It's seen as crass to dick down your cavalier (From Abigail and Magnus, through to Judith and Marta with canonical romantic refusal and LATTERLY Judith's SECONDARY canonical refusal of Coronabeth. Interestingly I don't see much shit about Isaac and Jeannemary but that's another hillock to rot on.).

But that doesn't seem to be the main issue WITHIN FANDOM or (more) people would be coming for Abigail and her lovely ottery meat shield.

Or Griddlehark.

Harrow and Gideon are lauded as the greatest romance of all time and the power dynamic there is TRULY whack. (affectionate)

Heir to the throne and indentured slave?

Necromancer made of a bajillion babies and a Base Level Not-Even-Squaddie.

Abuser and abused.

FORCED cavalier and necro?

Witness and sacrifice.

Even if you view them as a complicated sister dynamic... there are ABUNDANT issues there and a staggering co-dependancy that plays out in a sapphic lobotomy. So we have a base line of what, in the Nine Houses, classifies as a Fuckin' Ride Or Die of a relationship.

(this is without the fact that the NORM is for a baby to be specifically born for a Necromancer. Either RE:The manyfold uncles or like Babs being chosen as a zygote. Which do I have to explain how eugenics and baby-promises are worse than two people choosing each other or NAH?)

THE SECOND: People see a man and a woman and they give them preordained gender roles, which they then do some A/B/O level gymnastics to make them negatively fit into the necro and cav dynamic. It's funny because they're grey librarians who look like librarians. They look similar, they act similar but for some reason the fact Cam has tits gets some WILD hottakes.

(My favourite (said with spite and loathing) was someone asking if Cam fancied Harrow because she let Nona touch her… I.. I just??? She was letting Nona express herself in a safe way, Nona, who is a VULNERABLE ADULT with sensory issues. (yes this was reddit how did you guess))

Which.. is peculiar when you think of how we meet them, in an investigative role where they are immediately, companionably mocking each other? Where, out the gate, Cam lunges to protect Pal and as quickly as that happens he calls her back to protect her?

The Cavalier is there to protect the Necromancer. And yet he is IMMEDIATELY portrayed as a shield.

There's also an inherent, and non-canonically spoken of trust about what Pal EXPECTS of Camilla. It starts off with her with the rapier and how although adept with it, it is not her main skillset. And it's played against the bum rush way Gideon had to give in the two hander, but it's also, OBVIOUSLY, something Camilla has done forever and a day. So their roles are already non-traditional, with the basics of 'your cavalier should be your sword' cause girly pop let his barn door have two because she patently WANTED THEM.

Likewise, when hoorah boot clack salute, stick up her arse, repressed lesbo challenges them for their keys Cam is hot to go, but she waits for him to catch up. And he was erring on denial, he was erring on losing KNOWLEDGE, which is his main gain from any situation, to make sure she didn't get injured. But he puts her in that fight for HER HONOUR first, not his, not the Sixth's, Camilla Hect.

When she's injured, other than a brief moment of being a catty princess to Jody and Marta who lol DESERVED, he CHECKS Cam. He's frightened, he's fretting, he just wants her to not have been stabbed quite a lot, and PATENTLY blames himself. He is a PHYSIOLOGICALLY ADEPT necromancer and he FEARS for her injury, because of the pain not the complications of healing. It's an obvious show of how he perceives her as an extension of himself but NOT a tool.

Likewise, the only thing Pal ever did wrong and honestly, Dulci you aquatic-bint your way out of that river and give him a SLAP, was that he left her when he went to nuke Cytherea. He did it as a kindness, he didn't want her to see, he THOUGHT he did the right thing. And he didn't, and there wasn't a right thing, but oh my god dude.

He acted like a cavalier to guarantee her safety.

And I see a lot of 'oh well he did it cause he was upset about Dulci' like?? Cytherea SPOKE to them about the Avulsion trial. He had to look "Dulcinea" in the eye when she asked him to siphon Cam. Do you not think he wasn't already turbo pissed off? Hurt? Upset? Do you not think he was already mourning her, that he chose Cam over her, because he said “no”?

Which is a good segue into 'Paul is problematic'. First up, buckle up my darling little babies, spiritual cannibalism isn't exactly a fuckin' jolly holly time anyway, cause it was made by a man with the moral compass of a rabid wolverine and tits covered in biscuit crumbs.

At no point does Palamedes not feel dreadful for squatting inside Camilla. He is the (un)embodiment of a nervous friend sitting on a mostly full sofa trying to make himself as small as possible and wincing whenever he accidentally touches someone. He is there ONLY because it's what she wanted. And we know that because they discuss it, PRIVATELY, and it overheard by Nona. He also offers Cam the choice, they keep going as they are, or they do something else. But it is together, whatever they do is together. And she chooses to not suffer alone. And that some a y'all shit on that is a choice.

Harrow TBI's herself to not lose Gideon, but when two people enter into togetherness with consent it's a no?? They had a big ol’ adult chat (or 50 off screen, who knows, babygirl can’t shut up so I imagine it was more) and there’s booing and hissing.

Wah wah they're co-dependent it's not healthy, SURE, but it’s extreme circumstances, it's grimdark space heresy. Cam is a victim of torture, starvation and other such New Rho hells. Palamedes was in the purgatory of river isolation post suicide and his only hope of survival was Cam. They are the reason the other kept going. Paul is them keeping going, Paul is their promise to the other that it'll be okay, because they're there. Yes, they're co-dependent but they are each other's reason for being.

Even in the real world, when everything is subterranean, sewer level shit, you are told to find a reason to keep going. It can be a concert in a few months, or your ageing cat, it can be your mother or your tomato plants. And it's not long term, but THEY don't have long term.

And they BOTH chose. Palamedes had no promise of what would happen once he was booted back out of Babs, did he go back in Cam and risk her soul, or did he try another body? Was he already compromised by Tridentarii taint? But he was willing, if it was for her.

Likewise she was at the precipice of a wound that really needed a necromancers attention (look how BoE left Judith, like jesus colostomy christ the woman is a menace but shoving a carrier bag in her then blood letting her to refuel your stolen tesla is rough guys). It needed HER necromancers attention. And that wasn't happening. And she couldn't take not having him any more.

And they didn't go into it blind, The Sixth as a house patently had more knowledge on the melange of souls than most (via all the secrecy that was shared with BoE etcetc), and Pal had just learnt more, first hand, shoved up inside Naberius feeling their edges bleed together. And they had felt what it was to be Them before. They BOTH experienced that, like, blood-sweat and worried daddy lap aside, they both knew it would hurt her, and I have no doubt it cut Palamedes up, but it ate some of him too. 'Oh it hurt her more' my DUDE the man was already bone dust and fuck all else all that COULD be hurt WAS hurt.

THIRDLY (I realise there was not initially three points but there sure fucking is now LESSGO):

SACRIFICE. I've seen it said, repeatedly, they have an uneven power dynamic because Cam 'sacrifices' herself for him.

WELL. Let's break that down with a direct comparison.

Gideon Nav, a woman who had never been loved, but had sometimes been useful, sacrificed herself for a chance to die with the knowledge of being wanted. She knew and wanted to be eaten, absorbed, nothing more than her sword. This was seen as a rejection by Harrow for reasons even GIDEON was aware of, poor kid.

Harrowhark Nonagesimus, woman who, understandably, thinks she's cursed as all fuck, refused to take the sacrifice of Another Body and in the process made Gideon think she was being rejected. I think she is less aware, but not totally unaware. And it was in desperation. And she is so young, they both are, they were scared and staring at a bone wall or forever death.

But my point is their togetherness, no matter how complete, was born of VIOLENCE and the eradication of one of them, the violence of need, of desperation to belong, to not be torn from the one consistent point in their lives : each other.

Camilla Hect saw the buckshot shrapnel of her life partner embedded in Canaan's masonry (this is an actual sacrifice, he sacrificed himself for her safety) and chose to take the red string of fate and GANK IT until she got Palamedes back. Because they had a (theoretically possible) predetermined get-out-of-jail-free plan for if something took him first. They planned to never be apart, this was one plan of many.

And Palamedes Sextus, for his part, did everything he could to keep them safe, keep her safe, to make sure, even in the end, they would be together in the safest, sanest way possible. He dredged her from death both times they were shot, he sewed her back together from within the cage of her body. He resurrected them. He was a god FOR them, so they could stay them.

Was it actually safe and sane? Compared to gutty stabs and being consumed by a IANTHE, honestly, yeah.

Was it ideal? No, but it was better than death.

They lived, together. Discussed it, chose it.

If Palamedes is Decisive Consent and Camilla is Patient Protection, Paul is a Conversation with a lil line of kisses at the bottom. They're not made from love, they're made from necessity, but they are born BECAUSE of love, gentility. The difference between rabid hunger after suffering food scarcity and spending 14 hours cooking a meal for someone you love. They are both acts of consumption, but the tone is so vastly different.

✨anyway yeah hi I fucking love Cam and Pal and this is the hill I've chosen to climb and repeatedly die on✨

(I'd like to postface this with I love ALL these characters, I slag them off with the love of literary analysis, and none of them ever did anything wrong they are my tiny angel baby war crimes whom i wub them a normal amount.

...And I'm not getting the books out to quote shit so you're gunna have to embrace the Vibes.<3)

(shout out to @grievingbovine this is (partially) their fault *heart hands*)

[lemon-natalia]

Nona the Ninth Reaction - Review

firstly, i just wanted to say thank you to everyone who has taken an interest in and encouraged me in doing these liveblogs! this has been such a fun project to work on, and reading these books for the past nine months or so has been a bright spot in what has otherwise been a relatively tough period of my life. i’ve really enjoyed getting to theorise about all of the lore of these books and make horribly ill-advised emotional attachments to inevitably doomed characters

more fun statistics that no one asked for: this liveblog was the longest, at about 20,000 (!!) words. my GtN liveblog was 12000 words for comparison. i have no excuse other than i like to talk

NtN definitely was an interesting diversion from the other two books so far. it wasn’t exactly a breather, since it was still incredibly heartbreaking and horrifying, but it was fun to see a part of the worldbuilding very different from what we’ve seen before. as much as I missed both Harrow and Gideon, i liked that it gave other characters time to shine outside of interacting with them. it was fun to see more of Palamedes, Camilla, and Pyrrha, and how those characters act in a vastly different environment to the Nine Houses

although NtN was essentially telling two different narratives, John chapters vs Nona’s, it still didn’t feel particularly disjointed - i think it was thematically held together by being a bit more grounded than the other books so far, sci-fi and fantasy elements notwithstanding (contemporary issues like climate change and nuclear war, & John’s world being a setting far closer to our own vs Nona’s domestic life & very real problems of living in a warzone)

i also loved getting John’s perspective in the chapters narrated by Harrow, his point of view and recollections were equal parts funny, terrifying, and fascinating. he’s certainly got a … unique perspective on the world. it was just a slow horrifying journey trying to figure out how the world ended, knowing that it was doomed but not exactly how it happened

Muir really has a talent for endearing you to a protagonist, and Nona was no exception, I absolutely loved her, and just, her whole story and how tragic it was physically hurt me. i also wasn’t expecting to get as attached as i was to Hot Sauce and the school gang - i hope we get just even just a mention of what happens to them in AtN

tldr: 11/10. reading this series is like the emotional equivalent of voluntarily getting stabbed in the heart repeatedly. i have absolutely no clue what I’m going to do with my life now that this is over for the meantime, other than go crazy in a locked room with a red string conspiracy board trying to figure out whats going to happen in Alecto the Ninth

speaking of, obviously its not a pressing issue since to my knowledge there isn’t even a release date yet, but i’m not sure if i’ll do a liveblog for Alecto when it comes out? on one hand the most fun bit about liveblogging has been the reaction from everyone who’s already read the books and we’ll all be in the same boat of not knowing what’s going on when Alecto comes out, so i don’t know how much of a point there is? on the other i would very much enjoy doing it anyway, and i’m a perfectionist so it would be nice to have completed all of the books like that. so i guess it depends on how impatient i am to read the whole book when it comes out lol

[radioactive-yuri]

y'know, probably because i hate simple power dynamics a lot, but i really love how weird and complicated power dynamics are in tlt.

like, in gtn, harrow makes the assumption that coronabeth is "the dominant" in her relationship with ianthe, but we as the audience know that ianthe has power over her because of coronabeth's secret, and coronabeth often ends up coming across as more submissive in her interactions with ianthe.

harrow holds a significant amount of power over gideon, but gideon also holds more power over her than she herself is aware of, because all of gideon's actions affect harrow.

john is the most powerful character in the entire series, but his personality is so docile and non-confrontational that even as god, he's more likely to obey than demand.

then, and thank you tamsyn muir so much for writing them the way you did, there's characters like cam and pal, who seem to have no power dynamic at all. they're equals. camilla obeys palamedes, but not because she has to, rather because their goals almost always align. palamedes takes camilla's advice and supports her in any way he can, not because he's afraid of her or she holds power over him, but rather because he trusts her to know what to do. they work as one.

that's why paul can exist as the perfect lyctor, because they're made up of two souls working together, rather than one soul consuming or suppressing another.

[annisefreya]

It is finished.

Ian and Mickey have lived on the Ninth their whole lives, the only remaining children of a dying House. When the Emperor calls for necromancers to travel to the First House and attempt to ascend to the status of Lyctor, Mickey answers the call. But he needs a cavalier, and that means he needs Ian. Ian finally has the chance he's always wanted to leave the Ninth behind, and all he needs to do is pretend obedience to his childhood enemy.

---

This was a really stupid labour of love. I know it's niche and it's going to appeal to only a few people, but I hope those few people find it and enjoy it.

For those few people, I have included some additional headcanon under the cut about how I'd cast the rest of the book of I was going to write it (which I absolutely the fuck am not).

Warning that this contains some spoilers for Gideon the Ninth, based on casting decisions... And a few for Harrow the Ninth (one will just tell you someone survives the first book... I've then called out some more significant spoilers at the end).

So when I started this I didn't think much beyond Ian is playing Gideon, Mickey is playing Harrow... But then I realized I needed more characters and it was also just fun to figure out how the rest of Shameless would fit in.

The Fourth House teens came to me before I even cast Palamedes and Camilla... Obviously it's Carl and Debbie. I don't know which is the necromancer and which the cavalier... I could go either way, depending on whether I valued accuracy or comedy value more... I think I lean towards Debbie-necro/Carl-cav because I don't really see Debbie obsessing over Ian's biceps.

I initially had Kev and Vee as the Fifth, on account of them being the kind grown ups. But then I was thinking about the Third, and the only Shameless character who comes even CLOSE to Ianthe's vibe is Svetlana. So... Yeah. That also would create the most plausible dynamic for Harrow the Ninth (or rather Mickey the Ninth). So then I put Kev and Vee into the Third as their thrupple... And it kind of works but mostly doesn't... But I went with it anyway. So when Ian refers to punching the Third cav, that means Kev. Because I couldn't imagine him punching Vee, even off-screen. Obviously this does mean the crushing on Corona thing does not work at all... But I didn't write it and I'm not going to do it doesn't matter (I'm not!! I know it sounds like I'm protesting too much but I'm really not).

So then obviously Fiona had to be the Fifth... And I considered Sean as her cav, but ultimately it came back to JimmySteve, because I think he had a better relationship with the kids, especially my aforementioned shitty Fourth teens Carl and Debbie.

For the Sixth, Palamedes was always going to be Lip... Both for smarts and for his friendship with Ian, and somewhat antagonistic relationship with Mickey. I went back and forth on Camilla... But ultimately friendship with Ian meant it had to be Mandy, because Ian didn't like Karen much and never really interacted with Amanda, who was my other option for matched smarts... I hadn't met Tami when I started this, but I don't think my opinion has changed. I don't think Tami could really get the Sixth's vibes, and this is a youngish Lip. Plus who doesn't want to see Mandy with a sword?!

Seventh I kind of went with what I'd done for I Want The Gun Back, Harrow... So Kash and Linda. But honestly i kind of hate it, both because it's kind of spoilers for anyone who knows shameless and because it wouldn't work on any level for the Harrow the Ninth... Ahem... Version of events. But I'm never writing that, so there we go.

I couldn't decide on who to cast as the Eighth for ages, but eventually I decided that Sammi and Chuckie would work best... Slightly parasitic familial relationship? Check. Antagonism with Ian and Mickey? Check. Smart but superior and arrogant with it? Well, kinda. But I put the scene where the Eighth gives Gideon tea side by side with the scene where Sammi bandages Ian's burn and I couldn't think of a better fit.

I still haven't been able to think of a good fit for the second, short of just jamming random characters in. I figure Caleb has the most Judith "normal person reacts normally and calls the authorities" vibes. But I didn't like that, and who would play Marta? Trevor?!

Kermit is Teacher and I will not be accepting questions at this time.

On the Ninth, I decided that Terry couldn't be Priamhark, because there is no version of Ian and Mickey that aren't on each other in seconds if Terry wasn't around. So Terry is Crux. And homophobia doesn't exist in TLT, so his grounds for keeping them apart stem more from a visceral dislike of Ian and the fact that he's an indentured servant not good enough for the Ninth (and a little bit the anti-necro/cav relationship stuff that stands in for homophobia in the books)... I think Crux is actually probably less unpleasant than Terry, but the end of Nona would still work.

Aiglemene was a problem for me, because the only obvious person I could think of was Sheila... I am still not happy with this because Sheila is too nice for Aiglemene. The other thought was Peggy Gallagher, who was almost too mean. But would totally be able to teach Ian the blade. No actually, I think Grammy would be a good Aiglemene. I just decided that while writing it. There you go.

I didn't really cast anyone who appears in Harrow the Ninth... I sort of go back and forth, but I did have thoughts about Jod and Wake. (The next bit contains MASSIVE HTN spoilers so be warned).

So logically Clayton would be Jod, but he appears in one total episode and... No. Frank is Jod. Obviously. Which makes Monica Wake, which I think would be an interesting dynamic... I did consider gender swapping (Monica as Jod) but this doesn't work on many many levels... It still doesn't, because I have no idea who would be Alecto, particularly from Mickey's response to them... That doesn't really work for anyone. So it's a good job I'm Not Writing It.

In my head Mercymorn and Augustine are just... The original. They don't get replaced. They just have to deal with Mickey and Svetlana instead of Harrow and Ianthe. And both Mickey and Svet would instantly pick up Augustine's smoking habit even though Mickey would hate him with the passion of a thousand suns.

[shayminlucario07]

I want to talk about Naberius Tern.

We, The Locked Tomb community, talk a lot about how Babs (AKA Naberius Tern) is awful. Because he is. He is deeply unpleasant, and is viscerally off-putting to the majority of characters in the series- I'm not sure if there's anyone who actually has a positive opinion of him. He's an asshole, and we should treat him as such.

But... that's not his fault.

Something I've seen proposed in a post here on Tumblr (I can't find it and wouldn't know how to link it even if I could, I'm very sorry), which seems to be pretty widely accepted is the idea that, Naberius' proportions being. Basically perfect for the rigidly structured dueling that takes place, is a result of his body being altered by Third House flesh magic to *make* him that way (Likely by Ianthe). But what we don't seem to talk about or acknowledge as much, is...

That's not all that would have been *made* the way it was.

I have seen the theory be proposed that all of Naberius' unpleasant behavior in Gideon the Ninth is simply him attempting to draw attention away from Coronabeth so that she can conceal her lack of necromantic ability (Again, I can't find the post and wouldn't know how to link it if I could, and I am very sorry about that- both posts I've referenced are excellent ideas that make perfect sense and are extremely smart insights!). If this is true, which it very much seems like it is, then it would mean that Naberius has no choice but to be an unpleasant asshole- otherwise, the act he needs to put on to shield Corona wouldn't work. I'm not going to make the claim that Naberius was secretly a good person all along, because that's probably not true, but I think it's important for us to acknowledge the fact that, Naberius Tern has no choice. Naberius Tern has no power. Much has been said about the power imbalance between Necromancer and Cavalier, and about the added layers of nuance to that imbalance in the case of the Necromantic Heirs of Gideon the Ninth- but Naberius is, perhaps, the best possible example. And yes, I say that in spite of Gideon being an indentured servant, knowing full well what that means. While the relationship between Gideon and Harrow is never anywhere remotely close to healthy, Harrow will at least listen to Gideon, ever- though she doesn't do so very often. However, neither Ianthe nor Corona *ever* listen to Naberius. Due to the nature of the Necromancer and Cavalier relationship, the Cavalier has no power by default. There are examples of individual cases where a Necromancer gives power to their Cavalier, such as Camilla and Palamedes, or Abigail and Magnus, or even Judith and Marta, but Ianthe and Corona *do not do this*. In fact, if anything, they have taken away whatever power he may have had, in a very similar way to how Harrow did to Gideon when she kept Gideon trapped on the Ninth- due to Naberius knowing Corona's secret, he *cannot be allowed to have any escape*, in the exact same way as Gideon. He is privy to a secret that could destroy the heir of a house. As such, he is a threat to that house- and his leash cannot be given the slightest bit of slack.

We see at least one example of Naberius seeming to genuinely want something divorced entirely from the Tridentarii. This is when, at the Fifth House's anniversary dinner, he seems to genuinely want to befriend Colum Asht- albeit, in his distinct, asshole Naberius way. And, of course, Colum is visibly discomforted by this, because Naberius is quite unpleasant. However, personally, when I think about this interaction, who I feel the most bad for is Naberius. By all evidence, he seems to be genuinely interested in a friendship with Colum, but this idea is visibly distressing to Colum- and, given the fact that Naberius doesn't have the choice to not be an asshole- at least at Canaan House, due to its public nature- this is a prospect that simply is not available to him, and it isn't even his fault. He is denied the chance at a friendship he seems to genuinely want because of a persona he was *forced* to cultivate.

The final note I want to discuss is probably going to be the least well received, which is frankly understandable- but a sentiment expressed by some characters in the books (Most notably Gideon), and echoed by many fans, is that Naberius' attractiveness is unpleasant. He seems to want people to know that he's hot, and that *he* knows that he is, and he attempts to draw attention to that. He puts time into wearing his hair Pompadour every day, he stretches to show off his abs- and no one cares. He seems to be bothered by this, and it may genuinely be upsetting to him- especially given the fact that, in The Unwanted Guest, it's stated by Ianthe that every ex he's ever had has cheated on him, and that fucks up your self-esteem- but he doesn't actually make a big deal about it. But, the general consensus is that this aspect of Naberius' character makes him particularly unpleasant- and, largely, I think that sentiment comes from our perceptions as the reader being flavored by Gideon's own thoughts, as she is the lens through which we view the events of the book- and Gideon, of course, is a lesbian. She simply does not find men attractive, including Naberius, and she especially seems to find muscular men particularly unattractive, as she describes Protesilaus' muscularity as "Grotesque". Ultimately, her reasoning for this doesn't matter, and it's not a problem- she's perfectly allowed to have that opinion. However, what it has inadvertently lead to- which is further stoked by Naberius' failed efforts to draw attention to his attractiveness, and every character seeming to not find him attractive at all- is that Naberius' attractiveness is, itself, unpleasant; as though that mere fact of his character is a source of unpleasantness. And, to be clear, I can completely understand why someone would find that attitude unpleasant- especially a person who isn't attracted to men, given. You know. The way the world thinks about lesbians, what with patriarchy and all, but this, to me, seems like an example of an odd phenomenon in our modern culture, where men voicing attraction to someone, or attempting to be attractive themselves, is seen as inherently predatory, whereas a woman doing so is not. Now, maybe I'm just wrong- I'll fully admit that's a possibility. I'm a bi/pan cis man, so I definitely do not understand the full nuance of the situation. But, at least the way that I interpreted the book, Naberius *isn't* predatory, he's just kind of conceited? Or, at least, considers his attractiveness to be a major, relevant part of his identity. And, being hot, and trying to be hot, is not inherently predatory- it can make people uncomfortable, but that does not make it *bad*, nor is it *the fault* of the person who is trying to be attractive that the other person was made uncomfortable by them. That's the other person's problem to solve, and not the responsibility of the person who's trying to be attractive, since they're just living their life how they want to. That's true of Naberius, too- it's not a bad thing that Naberius is trying to be attractive, even if he is in a book primarily about lesbians. He has the right to do so- and frankly, given all the shit he's been through, I think he's earned the right to be a bit of a fuckboy.

Anyway, with all that said, my ultimate point is this: While, yes, Naberius Tern is awful and we hate him because he's an asshole, and that's deserved, we also have to be willing to acknowledge the fact that... he doesn't really have any choice BUT to be an asshole, and if he weren't trapped in the *situation* with the Tridentarii, it's entirely possible he wouldn't be an asshole at all. It really isn't his fault that he's deeply unpleasant in so many ways, and that only furthers the tragic nature of his character. And I think that we, as readers and fans of these books, haven't really acknowledged or accepted that. It's actually quite sad that Naberius is so awful, and it's tragic that he ended up that way, whether it was by his own choice or not, whether it was simply a product of his nature or not.

[paradoxcase]

Chapter 12 of Nona the Ninth

(Slowly figuring out how to work Locked Tomb reading and posting back into my schedule)

As anticipated, it's just Ctesiphon Wing coming to chat

I feel like Kevin would really enjoy the Sims

So they still seem to think that necromancers need their hands free to do necromancy

Do they think that undead bodies have some kind of power that living bodies don't? Like obviously if they died and some other necromancer started piloting their corpse around they'd have to worry about that other necromancer, but I think they'd have a lot bigger issues if there was a necromancer attacking them than these particular people being dead instead of alive. Possibly their use of the word "zombies" to describe necromancers has caused them to forget that there is actually a difference between zombies and necromancers?

I wonder why? If at least some of them think Pyrrha is still a Lyctor, why would it really matter whether Camilla and Nona were with her or not? Furthermore, if they think Nona might possibly turn into a Lyctor at any moment, why isn't she being treated the same way Pyrrha is?

She doesn't like eating fruit, but she does want to eat leaves? And she said a flower was sexy earlier, for some value of "sexy"

I kind of wonder now how Corona would have gotten along with Harrow, aside from the fact that Harrow showed very little inclination towards getting along with anyone except Gideon and maybe Palamedes back at Canaan House. Corona does seem drawn to people who don't want anything to do with her, at any rate

Are they doing some different kind of scanning on Pyrrha than what they do on Camilla and Nona?

I wonder why it's classified information that G1deon is gone? It seems like the Unjust Hope people are aware that Pyrrha isn't a Lyctor since otherwise they wouldn't be waiting for Nona to become a Lyctor again and would probably instead be gunning for Pyrrha, wouldn't they?

I wonder if Gideon is actually going to show up in Corona's vicinity at some point and ask for her sword back? That would be pretty funny, but I don't think Gideon was particularly attached to that sword or anything

I hope Judith shows up actually onscreen at some point in this book, and, maybe even has some interactions with Corona again

So I guess some of this chapter might have actually had Palamedes in it, although Nona claims to be able to tell them apart without needing to see their eyes, and she didn't say anything about it. Or is it just that Camilla is worried that We Suffer will notice that her eyes have changed since whatever she did with Palemedes that caused them to swap?

I wonder what that means

I'm not sure this makes sense. The rest of the universe doesn't seem to have left modern technology behind, and in that case a painted portrait would be worth much more than a photograph, so why would Wake only get a photograph while other important commanders have painted portraits?

I think if Pyrrha was actually a Lyctor she wouldn't need to make any sudden movements to hurt them. But it is possible that that thing would actually kill a Lyctor

So there's at least some people in BOE who still like bladed weapons as much as Corona and Camilla do, even though they have access to guns

Crown Him With Many Crowns is apparently the name of a hymn about Jesus, Thy Full Gallant Legions seems to be the from the English translation of the national anthem of the Ivory Coast, and He Found It In Him To Forgive seems to be from a song by a New Zealand rock band according to the internet, but I'm very sure they were not the only people to ever have used that phrase. I guess that parallels Wake's name in that second part is a translation of a national anthem and the third part is a song lyric, but if these phrases really don't mean anything to BOE anymore, that may not signify. I think from the rest of this that "Troia cell" is just a synonym for "Ctesiphon-3", but I'm not sure about that, and possibly Troia cell/Ctesiphon-3 is how they refer to Pyrrha, Camilla, and Nona?

I hope this person becomes a returning character, because they certainly are a character

Is this supposed to mean something to me?

I mean, Ianthe literally did eat parts of Naberius for necromancy purposes back in Gideon the Ninth, but I think Ctesiphon wing knows that Corona is not a necromancer? I guess the bodyguard just has heard some weird rumors about how people do things in the Nine Houses

More posthumous character development for Wake

I think the only people left alive who can physically travel through the River and aren't currently in this room are Ianthe and John, right? So is Ianthe the negotiator then? Very interested to hear Ianthe's take on her sister's new allegiance

So the Sixth House would be going back to the Empire, despite the break clause? Or did they promise the Sixth House a new home, and then turn around and offer them back to John at a price, and that's what's going on here?

Source Joyeuse is probably Mercy, Source Piotra is maybe Augustine? But I didn't get the impression that they were treating Mercy the same way they are treating Pyrrha now. Do they intend to have a different kind of relationship with Harrow/Nona?

Joyeuse was Charlemagne's sword, Chrysaor, which they use for Cytherea below is from Greek mythology, but I can't find anything about Piotra other than it being a given name

13 people died at or on the way to Canaan House: Marta, Naberius, Isaac, Jeannemary, Magnus, Abigail, Palamedes, Dulcinea, Protesilaus, Colum, Mayonnaise Uncle, Gideon, and Teacher, and Cytherea only killed six of them, as Camilla points out. I guess the ones that We Suffer is excluding here are Gideon and Naberius, assuming they were killed by their necromancers for Lyctor purposes? And Teacher is obviously the "necromantic monster" here. Camilla also didn't mention Gideon and Naberius in her correction

I thought the report at the end of the last book said that Lyctors had not appeared in this capacity in thousands of years? I can understand if she was like, this used to happen in ancient times and we are afraid it will start happening again, but here she is talking like this happens all the time in the current day

I dunno, I think Ianthe also got what she wanted, just not exactly the way she was hoping for it

Are there only 16 people in the Sixth House? Or is it like 16 families or something? I know they are low on population, but that seems pretty extreme

Camilla, are you going to merge with Palamedes and become BOE's pet Lyctor in exchange for the welfare of Nona and the Sixth House? Oh no

[reviewsthatburn]

NONA THE NINTH deals with a necromantic version of plurality in a way whose groundwork was laid in GIDEON THE NINTH and HARROW THE NINTH. Much as "one flesh, one end" is undeniably queer, Camila and Palamedes display a version of plurality, which is necromantic in its origins, but familiar to me in its general shape. I’m a singlet, not a plural system, but several important people in my life are plural, and so much of how Nona interacts with Camilla and Palamedes echoes my interactions with those people in my own life. There’s a line in the second half of the book that makes it clear that at least some of the characters know about plurality, even if what’s happening with them is a specific magical version which canonically involves souls. In some ways plurality is more canonical to the text than any particular style of queerness (except perhaps for sapphic attraction), though this book (and the whole series) is undeniably and wonderfully queer.

Full Review at Link.

[beguilingcorpse]

i think that something so fundamental to palamedes and dulcinea’s entire relationship is how private it is. so much of what we hear about what happened between them is secondhand, mostly from camilla, and even the moments we do see from either of them contain a degree of separation - i.e., we see pal’s tenderness towards cytherea at canaan house, but only as much intimacy as he is willing to display in public, in front of gideon. we are, as the reader, looking in on them, in every iteration of their romance that we are granted permission to see. and i think it’s so poignant that here, during the only time we ever see them interact - during the only time that palamedes ever sees dulcinea, physically, really - the reader (or audience) is excluded from the moment.

we don’t see dulcinea; we see palamedes react to her. we don’t hear his thoughts or a description of her appearance; we hear him quote from something else, comparing her body to the inhuman, a description only in the abstract.

dulcinea’s desire for her body to be changed posthumously to fit camilla’s tongue-in-cheek drawing of her own tongue-in-cheek description of herself speaks to a broader desire to be kept private, to be kept only for those that she loves. whether she appears human or not in this moment in the river is kept between her and palamedes. this may change depending on what information we’re given in alecto, but at least for now, i love that even the reader isn’t given access to this deeply intimate aspect of their relationship

Been thinking about this scene from The Unwanted Guest:

Palamedes is quoting here a description of an angel. And maybe it's just me missing some cultural queues here, but... There's something melancholy about the whole exchange. It's alien, especially for a description of the face of a woman he loves.

Dulcinea admitted earlier in the play that she didn't want Palamedes to see her face, even if he had come to her funeral. She implied she's since been to the other side of the River, that she died a second time, and that "something awful"* happened to her that she's "not allowed" to explain. And there may be precedent in the devils of Antioch for souls to appear something other than human after experiencing changes in the River.

(*adjective, archaic: Filled with or inspiring awe)

Palamedes calls her perfect, when she loved imperfect unfinished things. Not very much later, Paul—who is no longer Palamedes, and never will be again—echoes that perfection in their description of themself.

So.... What did Dulcinea look like when Palamedes saw her? Was it anything like the Dulcinea who died before Palamedes met her?

[misdre]

day two of my gideon the ninth re-read, which i also call: I Am So Fucking Normal About The Sixth, Holy Shit

gideon exploring canaan house and being surprised by the most mundane things is a fave. i mean……

the visuals of the ninth house really just get more bizarre the more you really focus on everything gideon says about it. clearly their toilets are one worrisome thing (maybe harrow's folks have nicer bathrooms in their castle though). while reading, i notice myself wondering about stuff like, do they have like, supermarkets on the ninth? where does gideon get her magazines if there isn't one?? can you imagine how heavy a focus there has to be on geriatric products in a ninth supermarket. but, the ninth USED to have a lot more people right, and children also? at least a couple hundred children (💀 rip) so probably over a hundred young families yes??? WHERE DID THEY ALL LIVE?? is it just gideon's PoV that makes the ninth sound like an empty hole on the ground with nothing much in it (and i have been thinking about this all considerably after reading a whole lot of fics that takes place at the sixth and i'm also not sure where THEY live in their library)

studying "dulcie" and every little thing she does now like a lab rat because originally i mostly let her slide as a very odd character. the way i read it now is she just mocks gideon a whole lot, and gideon is too gay to see it as anything but flirting because she is. well. one attention-starved gay

and i can't deal with gideon talking about how sad she is!! because harrow made her fly over to this planet and then told her to not engage with anyone and fucked off herself to have adventures on her own!! and gideon is just so so starved for friendship because she's been sad and alone all her life!!!!! GIDEOOOON

AND MAGNUS'S SILLY ATTEMPTS TO BE NICE TO THIS INCREDIBLY BROODING BUTCH THAT WON'T SPEAK A WORD TO ANYONE i love him so much, i wish magnus was my dad (he's my age but never mind that)

i'm surprised just how little i apparently remembered of this book in the end. there are entire scenes i'd forgotten, like the little thing about some cavaliers sparring together. the rest of the books are (camilla excluded) very light on any cavalier action so… yeah. i savour that precious little interaction. justice for cavaliers tbh

gideon's POV here is so cleverly written, i don't feel too bad anymore about not really understanding a lot of things on my first read because if you are really in her shoes, you're not supposed to understand much, yes?? she obviously idolises the cohort because she WANTED to go and become a soldier. but this is so fucked up already in this book because it's stated that thanergy is generated by the dead. and then gideon is like, wow i want to be one of the frontline soldiers who go in weapons raised to generate all the thanergy for the necromancers to use! what. the . fuck. oh this is messed up already and i'm barely 100 pages in.

i am so incredibly delighted by the sixth making their debut by being utterly fucking incomprehensible. TFW your love language is speaking like whatever the fuck is going on with these two. palamedes uses latin as one of the first things he ever says in the book. camilla calls him warden in every single sentence just for the snark effect. iconic, legendary, the bestest

camilla camilla camilla camilla camilla camilla AHHHHHHHHHHHH could she kill me please. fast. while somersaulting backwards down the stairs. and EXCUSE! ME!

THE! FUCKING! DESCRIPTION! OF PALAMEDES!!!!!!! HE GOT A RESTING BITCH FACE!!!!!!!!!! he is such a beautiful creature i LOVE HIM, HE CAN ALSO KILL ME (HE WOULDNT BUT A GIRL CAN DREAM, he could kill me with words though let's be real)

"Don't you have that on the Ninth?" THE NERDS GO ALL IN ROASTING GIDEON, they fucking LAUGH at her i can't, don't be mean to gideon not everyone is a master of literally everything the way you two fucking freaks are /affectionate

i am here to wholeheartedly appreciate the rivalry between harrowhark and palamedes, like harrow already said he was the only one she's worried about and here palamedes is explicitly impressed by her magic, yo. underrated. not to mention, this:

[lesblizzard-ultradyke]

i saw a post about palamedes and camilla being cousins and how it makes them sad that it wasn't stated clearly in the book and if they really are cousins then I personally think that it's shame on you that you care about heterosexuality so much, when I read their interactions I thought wow they're either weirdly romantic or extremely platonic and forgot about it immediately

[muninnhuginn]

Ask game: The Locked Tomb

thanks for asking and sorry in advance. this is so 'it depends' >_<

my favorite female character

Gonna be pretty boring with this one but Harrow. She's got some many layers of denial going on there (okay tbf so do a lot of the characters but shh) but she knows what she's good at and her particular mix of pride and bluffing is so fun. and it's neat how her psychosis interacts with those traits (thinking specifically of her interactions with Ortus in htn in terms of using him as a measure of what's real whilst not letting on to anyone else her 'weakness')

my favorite male character

Palamedes. I will admit there are probably more layers to John Gaius than Pal overall in terms of the whole... dubious ethics in STEM deal, but personality-wise I definitely prefer Pal to John

my favorite book/season/etc

Harrow the Ninth. I like the unreality vibes and non-linear timeline. It reminds me of fic in a good way. The sense of humour in htn also leans the closest to my own sense of humour (aka, whenever it highlights the absurdity of situations) though I will admit the memes take a knock to my personal rating. Harrow narration and humour also focuses a lot more on what interests me personally than Gideon or Nona. (Also, nothing else has been able to replicate the rush I got in htn when we got [redacted] POV. And that could only be pulled off by holding off for so long)

my favorite ship

Locked Tomb has a specific blend of the platonic and romantic which makes it kinda hard to choose any one as a ship more than a dynamic to study? Like, Griddlehark I probably like more as a concept than what's on paper. Ianthe/Harrow is intriguing but ultimately not endgame for either party and both of them are well aware of that. G1deon/Wake/Pyrrha is almost entirely told in implications, same with Mercymorn/John/Augustus (we do get to see more of them in action but we're missing so much about their past it's like looking at an incomplete jigsaw puzzle). Then there's whatever's going on with devotion and miscommunication with both campal and the tridentarii where they're so codependent but have such wildly different approaches (and in the case of the tridentarii, they're working at complete cross purposes with each other without even seeming to realise it)

uhhh tldr; I'm not sure I can decide on a favourite dynamic never mind a favourite ship. I'm partial to the 'playing house' 'family' in nona though because it never could have lasted. it may not have been 'real', but they scraped out some brief happiness for themselves in the time they had

a character I’d die defending

uh, none of them. I can like them all plenty, but their flaws are generally what make them interesting and I'm not connected enough to the fandom to have been subject to all the worst takes yet

a character I just can’t sympathize with

John Gaius. I can understand theoretically how he was essentially radicalised and has had millennia to convince himself his self-justification and recollection of events places him "in the right". And it's clear that the amount of effort he puts into convincing himself and everyone else that he was right means that he recognises on some level just how much he chose to destroy in the pursuit of what he'd call "saving people". But at the same time, I don't ever see him showing any form of repentance. And, like, I know characters don't *need* redemption arcs etc etc, but like. He's had his descent arc now. It's done. I'm about as sympathetic to him as Yagami Light.

a character I grew to love

I can't choose here. The thing with this series is in the first book I didn't truly feel like I "knew" the characters beyond Gideon and somewhat Harrow. But then htn and ntn both returned to characters and provided so much more context to them that I know that whenever I get around to my reread gtn alone is going to kill me with its implications. Will give shout-outs to both Ianthe and Camilla though

my anti otp

More trainwreck fascination here, but John/Alecto is very... in a series of incredibly unhealthy relationships these two give the impression they're heads and shoulders above the rest in toxicity (which is saying something considering the dios apates). I want to know more.

[lemon-natalia]

The Locked Tomb Reaction - The Unwanted Guest

it’s taken a while, but finally I’ve been able to get around to liveblogging this! my understanding is that The Unwanted Guest takes place in that period of time where Palamedes is ousting Ianthe from Naberius’s body? so i’m intrigued to see what actually happens, as well as how Muir writes in a new theatre-play format

‘kissing or feeding; we can’t be sure’ haha what the fuck. we’re really going in right off the bat with the surrealist horror here. i had a feeling that Ianthe’s mindscape might be a disturbing place, and apparently i was right

ok so i’m willing to suspend my disbelief that this is just a description for the reader to understand the concept but … does either Palamedes or Ianthe’s subconscious know what a 20th century English butler is?

ohhh my god Ianthe’s in a French maid costume, is this because Palamedes considers it sexy. this is so cursed. once again suspension of disbelief, but do either of these characters know what France is?

i am very much enjoying the dynamic between the two of them here, especially how unimpressed Palamedes is with, well, everything Ianthe 

oooh okay thats intriguing, there’s another person’s voice here. my first instinct is that it’s Camilla, given Palamedes is currently in her body

wow Palamedes’ immediate response to a game of essentially 20 questions is to immediately get philosophical and start a debate about whether the soul can be changed. he sounds like the kind of person who would be absolute hell to play Scrabble or Trivial Pursuit against 

what they’re talking about here is very interesting though. i like the little glimpses we get, primarily through the Sixth and the Fifth, about what academia and science looks like in a world with necromancy. whether the soul can be changed is kind of a big hypothetical in the real world, but in TLT where you can literally summon or ‘consume’ a person’s soul it would be much more directly relevant 

also a very interesting point (at least what I think he’s saying?) from Palamedes here that just because the Lyctors lived for 10,000 years doesn’t necessarily mean that the thanergy powering them is perpetual, it could just be declining very very slowly

okay so the Voice just started talking about ‘Camilla’s idea’, so presumably not her unless she’s talking about herself in third person? it could theoretically just be Palamedes debating with himself? 

Palamedes briefly trying to play bad cop/Ace Attorney and intimidate Ianthe is hilarious 

Ianthe’s insistence that she didn’t murder Naberius because it was his job to die for her anyway is an … interesting perspective

‘she and I both understand that the goal is always worth the cost’ ngl i think Harrow herself would have something to say about that, given she literally gave herself a Claire’s lobotomy in the hope of saving Gideon. it wasn’t so much Harrow who decided that Lyctorhood was worth defeating Cytherea, but Gideon deciding for her 

once again i feel horribly bad for Naberius Tern, whose worst crime was pretty much just being an asshole

hah has Palamedes picked up a cigarette habit from Pyrrha. i’m enjoying the insight into his thought process here given that he generally comes off as knowing more than other people all the time, so it’s nice to see him actually in the process of figuring stuff out 

‘She wandered around like she was the protagonist’ HAH Ianthe i have bad news for you 

aww it’s sweet to get Pal’s view on Gideon here, namely that he thinks she’s smarter than even she gives herself credit for and that he was initially jealous of her dynamic with ‘Dulcinea’ but came to like her anyways

‘My problem was reminding myself you were a child’ ohhh my god the mysterious voice is Dulcinea! i can’t believe this is literally the only time we’ve seen Pal and Dulcinea actually interact. and isn't this possibly the first time that they've had an 'in person' (so to speak) interaction since most of their relationship was sending letters to each other?? oh i am not okay

okayy i’m interested in what Dulcinea’s saying here about how she seems to have died again and ‘something awful’ happened to her soul … it doesn’t seem to totally line up with what happened at the end of HtN, especially with her mention that there are two shores on the River. again everything seems to point to the nature of the River playing a big part in AtN 

woooh Magnus Quinn reference, my beloved 

oooh i love the contrast between Ianthe’s descriptions of her relationships with Corona and Babs - despite Babs being the one who was actually the cavalier, the kind of co-dependent relationship she has with Corona is much closer to the relationship between the other cavaliers and their necromancers. which is why the fact that she’s apparently the only Lyctor to outright murder their cavalier vs her admission that she wouldn’t have used Corona is very interesting to me

‘Coronabeth herself is part of your goal’ i’m very interested in the long-term goal of Ianthe in general. obviously one part was becoming a Lyctor, but i do wonder if she has something else planned, i doubt she’s content to just sort of do what John wants her to do forever

‘Jeannemary Chatur regaled me with the story at breakfast’ woooh Jeannemary reference. also this is such a cute detail

ooooh Palamedes's newfound cigarette habit is from Ianthe not Pyrrha, that's very fun

and Palamedes’ final point here that the soul is permeable is not just very satisfying against Ianthe’s general smugness, but has very interesting implications for all of the Lyctor characters, especially the fact that their titles are named after their cavaliers. for example, how much of Mercy’s devotion originally came from her versus the fact that Christabel pre-Res was a literal nun. and what does it mean for John and Alecto exactly - how much of the same person, or even human, is he after literally eating the soul of a planet

ok this isn’t to do with the Unwanted Guest exactly but i am very concerned by the notice at the very end that ‘Hell Will Break Loose’ in AtN. it already sounds ominous enough without considering that the previous notice, ‘Gideon will return’ at the end of HtN was done in the most painful way possible 

overall i really enjoyed this! what i really like about the additional short stories Muir writes for TLT is that you get to see little character moments and explore bits of the lore that would have dragged the main story down a bit, so it was very fun to see Palamedes and Ianthe interact one-on-one and debate a bit

and now i really have run out of stuff to liveblog about these books rip my sanity