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mangoisms · 11 months

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Im just soso obsessed with figuring out tim as a character rn i cant stop thinking abt it (ive always been a jason todd girlie but i read ur fic and that angsty twink latched onto me and refuses to let go)

I think u have a pretty good hold of him, especially bc in present comics writers are so intent on elevating tim in spite of other characters (barbara and her hacking skills for example, or any comparison made btw him and any robin, really) that most portrayals of him are so boring it makes me cry, while you on the other hand took the approach to write about his flaws (which are MANY) while still making him charming and handsome (he is so... !!!!)

To me flaws are also tied to not only the good traits of characters but also their core beliefs and ideals so what can you say abt tim?

I know he can be stupidly arrogant and patronizing at times, that he's always idolized the position and legacy of robin and constantly fights his insecurities with this role and his abilities for the job, that he can also be incredibly selfish or outright mean when it comes to being mindful of other people's feelings for the sake of logic (re when he didnt tell tam abt his dad not being actually dead), but at the same time i cant figure out exactly what he wants to do with his role as robin (or red robin) or why he would want to keep going when his main goals first were just making sure bruce wouldnt go down a dark path, im pretty sure he mentioned not being a vigilante forever but his actual goals remain unclear to me

(Im in the midst of reading his solo robin run but ive read red robin so give me a little room for this, you are definitely free to talk abt more of his comics bc i havent read everything yet and everything im saying should be taken with a grain of salt, video essays and the issues ive read can only get me so far)

He could have gained an inherent desire to help people after all his time as robin and the so fucked up shit that happened to him, maybe as a ways to channel his grief (much like dick and jason and bruce, im thinking abt identity crisis here) after he isnt "needed" as robin anymore, but at the same time that would be so tragic because he was supposed to be different to them, he was supposed to remark the importance of robin's role in helping be "batman's light" and not becoming like batman himself, its just so interesting and im still trying to really understand the extent of his character so id just. Love to get ur thoughts and musings on what fuels tim as a character and how you see him

(I dont have this problem with jason bc his moral conflict is very crystal clear to me and also so freaking juicy, his actions are logical and so understable, granted he also hasnt had as much screentime as tim and i can see when writers just Dont Get Him, misunderstanding the original intent of his character coming back etc etc etc, tim has grown and evolved throughout his tim as robin so this might factor in too)

Anyways sorry for the long post i hope this is alright !!! Loved ur fic to bits and ur writing is a blessing mwah

okay HI i am not exaggerating when i say that i have been thinking about this ask since you sent it HAHA tim is just a parasite in my brain he won't let go...

that's the funny thing about portrayals of him today... i feel like people want to elevate him as a potential batman or a character closest to bruce in terms of intelligence and detective skills, which isn't true at all, i think (because, exactly, you have babs Right There), and of course, narratively, this is all a good thing (this post covers it well, i think). it's in the same vein of people making tim out as the most dangerous person in the batfam, should he ever chose to go down the path, which i can partially blame red robin (2009) for with this panel....

(and i don't think that's true either. he has the potential to be dangerous just like any of the others but i think the ones to really be scared of are babs, dick, and cass but ANYWAY)

in general, red robin 2009 was a bumpy time for tim with bruce's death and his spiraling, but it seemed to really inform what they were going to do with his character. no more time for the civilian life, committing himself much more thoroughly to The Mission like bruce. which is, if you ask me, a negative progression of his character, which isn't bad, exactly, in terms of storytelling, but it feels like all we get are the 'good parts' now -- the intelligence, the status, the resources, and then we don't get to grapple with the consequences.

there were some in red robin 2009 but it was more tim accepting them and making no move to change his actions, which is fine, but now... idk. but i also don't touch modern comics with a ten foot pole so this could just be. Wrong. but that seems like what's going on. so i feel like that's where people get the idea of him being... idk not the Perfect Robin exactly but. you know?

no no yeah i totally agree!

re (because i want to break this down i'm telling you i have Been Thinking About This): at the same time i cant figure out exactly what he wants to do with his role as robin (or red robin) or why he would want to keep going when his main goals first were just making sure bruce wouldnt go down a dark path, im pretty sure he mentioned not being a vigilante forever but his actual goals remain unclear to me

exactly this. he did say that and i've reblogged this at some point i think, showing a panel from robin 1993 where he mentioned he wouldn't be a vigilante forever, then paralleled with that panel i put in earlier from red robin 2009. (there's this post, which touches on another thing about tim trying to set himself apart as having friends and thus not being bruce LOL which is another topic entirely)

i think that was what red robin 2009 was - a negative progression of his character, one that, again, we never really grapple with, especially as dc shoves robin back onto him now.

his motivations are an interesting thing to me, because he did start out coincidentally, saying batman needed a robin but he didn't assume he'd be that robin, it just kind of happened because he was there (well much more went into it but you know?).

but aside from that, i've never gotten the impression tim really does it for people. i mean batman in general has been about the detective work but i think towards the 80s/90s/00s there was a shift to focusing on the people but tim has never really struck me as a hero of the people. he's more about fighting crime than he is about helping people. i think it is partially informed by the genre - re detective comics, etc - but still. he's not like, say, peter parker/spider-man, who is a hero of the people, of the working class. the people are inherent to him as spider-man. tim does it out of duty and responsibility i think, being the light to batman's dark, of course, but he's also very much a teenage boy about being robin - the cool factor, pointedly mentioning he wants to let off steam by knocking around 'criminals' that kind of thing

which doesn't mean he's unfit for it but he operates in an odd grey area as far as his motivation goes, which i think is where we get red robin? he was defined by being robin and he did his job, then he got the boot. so it is very much an identity crisis but we're seeing that negative change as he changes for the worse, for something darker. i mean, yes, red robin 2009 was again bumpy because he was at a very low point in his life but in general, that run was dark for him.

editorial wise, we'd never get to see what they made of it because they did the reboot and started new-52 a few years after. but whether he'd continue being red robin/going down this path, or if he'd shed the identity and go for something lighter... it's hard to say.

i kind of like the thought that he'd change his identity and try to take a lighter approach, try to pull himself from bruce's influence, though with how it's all set it up, it seems fated that he'd end up there. there was red robin 2009, but then there was his sixteenth birthday incident (which sounds bad here and i'd read this before reading it myself but god when i read it it pissed me off so bad... really what turned me off bruce as a 'good' father figure, i can't lie). he ultimately ends up going back and becoming robin and this is the turning point for him where he agrees to enter this mindset that bruce wants him to be in. (this post talks mainly about timsteph but it is also a point to the end about the shift in his character and how that affected his relationships as well)

i mean i know red robin 2009 is marked by the grief of bruce's 'death' and a bunch of other Very Bad Shit but even when we got past that and he had his little 'Let me let in the people who love me because i am Not batman' he then proceeded to go a little surveillance crazy and make a hit list (something like that, it's been a while..) but. yeah.

ultimately, at the core of his character, i think he is good and compassionate and kind, so, even aside from all that (like the birthday incident), i think he would've made his way there eventually. it could maybe be why we see him returning to robin, if we wanted to try and pretend dc making him be robin is a completely normal and logical decision that they actually thought through. like a way to return to the bases and feel it out from there. though i still think they could've just. idk. given him a BREAK from vigilantism to figure it out. i'm a big proponent of civilians and their place amongst vigilantes and superheroes and i feel like tim's due a break, which is why i put that stuff in my fics. i do want to see him step back and try to figure out his life, because at one point, though robin 1993 was arguably defined by the balance between robin and tim drake and had plenty of civilian friends to keep things interesting, we don't see much as far as what he wants to do. which i suppose could be part of his relatability factor that tim drake, the character, was conceived with

but idk at this point they have to give us something 😭 anyway. this got VERY long i am very sorry.. i don't mind long asks either but i might've overshot my response... alas. i also hope i more or less answered your question??? if not feel free to slide back in here and talk to me! i rambled a bit here and it's like. 3am rn i'm scheduling this to post because i wanted to get it all written Now and. yeah.

thank you SO much very happy to hear you're enjoying everything <333 hope you continue to enjoy :**

#also thank YOU for all your thoughts?? like i said i was Thinkign About This #and i had posts in mind for it and yeah. yeah. i was thinking about it all week HAHA #but also like twin brain moment because you get him <3 he is charming and handsome but he also has SOOOO many flaws and is actually rlly #annoying and puts his foot in his mouth TOO MUCH #so. YEAH. sorry this is long don't feel obligated to respond to All Of This <3 but if you have any q's feel free to ask <3 #inbox #long post

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