#and offers a different perspective to things

[vidavalor]

Hello lovely! I'm wondering if you have any thoughts about Maggie in Final1 5? Isn't it weird that she wants to go back to talk to Az and Crowley while Nina's working? Something about it feels off to me.

Hello right back. 💕 There's chamomile mint tea and shortbread since we're on a Maggie theme, if you'd like some. Maggie's behavior from that scene on is super fucking weird, I agree.

Before the milk run-- when Maggie becomes the only involved character whom we lose track of a bit during The Final 15-- versus how she behaves when she returns is so strange as to be something that I consider maybe additional proof that things are not at all what they seem to be in The Final 15.

On Maggie and Crowley's weird Final 15 behavior, a possible meaning to all the allusions to robbery in S2, and what Maggie and Nina might be able to tell us about what happened at the end of S2.

TW: brief mentions of show's non-consensual possession/rape analogy.

Think for a moment about how truly weird Maggie's request for her and Nina to go back to the bookshop in that moment actually is...

It's only been a matter of minutes since Maggie and Nina were basically hostages in the bookshop who were almost killed by Michael and Saraqael. Crowley saved their lives in getting them out of the shop maybe, what? It's been a minute since I rewatched that bit of it but it couldn't have been more than 15 minutes prior?

The beings in the shop but for Maggie and Nina are supernatural and so left magically without using the door but while we the audience know that these people are no longer in the shop because we were watching it, Maggie and Nina do not know that. When Maggie suggests to Nina that they go talk to Crowley and Aziraphale, they have no way of knowing if the beings that just tried to kill them are still in the shop. They didn't even see Aziraphale leave with Whoever Derek Jacobi Is Playing yet because Nina was all "where's the other one?" to Crowley when they arrived back in the shop.

Maggie is literally like: Nina, I know you opened the business you own late and are the only one working right now and have a line of 20 people waiting for their morning, pre-work coffee but what if-- just hear me out-- we just made them wait an indefinite amount of time to voluntarily go back into the place where we nearly died a matter of minutes ago that could still be full of the people who wanted us dead and we did this for no other purpose than just to tell off my beloved adopted godfather and his partner, who just risked harm to save both our lives? And to maybe then also stick our noses into their love lives in return or something?

I mean... WHAT?!?! lol

Consider, even, how even more weird that is when Maggie, just *prior* to having gone to the mini-mart, had never been more on the same page with Nina and never more understanding?

She sacrificed her own want to go sleep behind the counter of her shop to offer to help Nina. It's a big moment of change in their relationship and shows a lot of growth for Maggie. She's gone from someone who is caring but has a tendency to only think about how things make her feel to seeing things from Nina's perspective. She's matured through the season into being someone more ready to be a partner to Nina. Maggie offering to help Nina with her morning rush-- and Nina accepting the help-- is the sweet, romantic moment showing that these two are heading in a positive direction, both individually and together.

When Maggie gets back with the milk, though? After she's been out of our sight for a few minutes? She's behaving very differently.

During S2, Maggie is shown to be a pretty guileless character. She might have the occasional judgemental moment but she's not deceptive or tricky and she really wouldn't hurt a fly. When Maggie comes back from the milk run, though, her insistence on Nina dropping everything and going with her in that moment is not just weird behavior but manipulative in a way that could not be more out of character for Maggie.

Nina has been in an abusive relationship where she was afraid of displeasing Lindsay. Maggie is aware of this, as it's been the subject of multiple conversations between them throughout the season. So, when Maggie gets so bizarrely insistent on Nina dropping her work-- her livelihood, her purpose, her job-- to meet Maggie's demands in that moment? When this isn't an emergency of any kind and isn't at all time-sensitive and there is no objective reason why Nina should be halting her job to do what Maggie wants in this moment? Maggie is being controlling in a Lindsay-like way. She keeps at it, knowing that Nina will give in and agree to go with her because Nina is used to doing that with her partner.

Nina hesitates and isn't sure whether or not to go with Maggie for a moment and I don't really blame her? This is the complete opposite behavior to Maggie before she left for the mini-mart. Maggie is suddenly acting quite a lot like her polar opposite-- the Lucifer-and-Heaven-paralleling Lindsay.

Maggie is also literally on Nina's shoulder like a devil the whole time in the scene in which she's convincing her to step away from the shop and go across the street with her to the other shop for a chat and...

...listen to what we just said there...

...it's a parallel to the thing that Whoever Derek Jacobi Is Playing is doing with Aziraphale, is it not?

So, what happened on the milk run?

Who did Maggie run into at the mini-mart that we couldn't see in the ending of S2 without it giving the game away? I wouldn't be surprised if, on this mirror-happy show, on the other side of learning in S3 that it was The Devil with the coffee in the bookshop in The Final 15, we also had a scene that showed that, while on her milk run, Maggie had a run-in with Sister Teresa's killer.

Did Hastur possess Maggie as part of Satan's plan? Was the idea to use Maggie and Nina to further trip Crowley and Aziraphale towards disaster to get Aziraphale? If so, it kind of half-worked. I'm not convinced that anything Maggie and Nina said to Crowley really mattered-- I think they weren't telling him anything he didn't already know or feel and that it's largely misdirection for the audience. What was effective, though, was the impression Aziraphale got upon seeing them leave as he was coming in.

Maggie and Nina being back in there at this weird time and then rushing out with smiles and comments like that they were "just leaving" and they were sure Crowley and Aziraphale had "a lot to discuss" seem to have led Aziraphale to assume that Crowley had asked them to come back and to the conclusion that he must have done so to tell them of his intent to ask Aziraphale to marry him. It's Maggie and Nina leaving the shop that reinforce to Aziraphale the idea that, when Crowley stands up afterwards, takes off his glasses, and says he supposes he has "something to say", that Crowley is only trying to communicate a proposal and not a plan.

It's what helps-- big time-- to lead Aziraphale to not listen for a shred of coded language for the entire scene. Neither he nor Crowley are listening for that with one another, which is why neither of them can truly understand what the other is saying, but Aziraphale's part of that is really fucked to Hell by the presence of Maggie and Nina in the shop when he came back. That's all pretty suspicious since Maggie was out of our sight for a few moments and came back fixated on the idea that she and Nina needed to go to the bookshop right that very moment and that it couldn't wait.

The Final 15 is a dark parallel to The Baby Swap plot and Maggie and Nina are full of shadows of Sisters Mary and Teresa to a point that the final shots of both of them in the series are mirror images of the final shots of their S1 characters. Nina looking through glass at Crowley departing is the last shot of Sister Mary both in 2008 and 2019, while Maggie's last shot?

To me, it's one of the most eerie moments in the entire series because of how much it visually resembles Sister Teresa's death.

Basically two minutes after we hear about The Second Coming... in the same season where Maggie and Nina's partial-vavoom gives way to a (possessed?) Gabriel saying: the dead will leave their graves and walk the Earth once more... we are shown Crowley and Aziraphale's apparent adopted goddaughter unresponsive on the counter of her shop.

Is Maggie dead?

Is Maggie asleep, like we were led to believe she wanted to do earlier in the episode? Maybe. Is she comatose/unconscious? Maybe. It's just that, best I can tell, she does not take a breath during the shot which I feel had to be intentional on the part of Maggie Service, and she's in the same position as we last saw Sister Teresa in S1...

Then, there's the robbery theme and how Maggie and Nina foreshadow so much of the end of S2 back in this scene here:

In Good Omens, the shop is the character. Maggie is, symbolically, the records she sells. The show also explains that Maggie's shop used to be a part of the bookshop. Now, there are three characters, not two, who are A.Z. Fell & Co.: Aziraphale, Crowley and Maggie. At the same time, Aziraphale is also The Small Back Room. The shops are intertwined as the characters are, essentially, family in the story. The fate of one is the fate of the other, which makes what Maggie and Nina foreshadow when talking about Maggie's shop while trapped together in Nina's not just the fate of Maggie's shop in S2 but also of the bookshop.

Maggie says that if she can't close the door to her shop, someone could walk in and take records. Maggie is the records she sells so, symbolically, this means someone could take Maggie. We got a bit of a preview of that when Shax appeared to get into her mind during the attack on the bookshop and Maggie also became the one who unintentionally "let the robbers in."

These robbers, Maggie frets... they could empty her till-- take all her money on a literal level... take her mind, or maybe even her life, on another. (Not to mention the now chill-inducing use of money-related words and coins with regards to the paralleling Crowley...) These robbers could take forcible ownership of Maggie's shop-- so, of Maggie. Maggie's shop was born of the bookshop... so, they could take forcible ownership of the bookshop, too.

Not just the physical bookshop, though that, too. The symbolic bookshop. Which is not only Aziraphale but Crowley and Aziraphale.

But, if The Small Back Room was originally part of the bookshop, then the bookshop really isn't just Crowley and Aziraphale-- it's Crowley, Aziraphale and Maggie.

If the robbers come for the bookshop, they've also come for The Small Back Room because it is all born of the same, symbolic shop.

Is that what they did?

Is that why Maggie is last shown to us non-responsive in her shop?

Now, Nina's even more foreshadowing reply:

Nina said that, if she owned a record shop, she'd be more concerned about "someone breaking in and leaving more records behind."

What are records? They're the literal records in the musical and old film sense that Maggie sells, yes, and also Maggie herself. They're also books, like what Aziraphale sells, and Aziraphale himself. But they're also a third thing that's very much of note in S2.

They're also the life's work of a scrivener, like what Muriel does.

Nina foreshadows someone breaking in and leaving "more records behind"... which is exactly what happens in The Final 15.

Elspeth's graverobbing. Bildad stealing Job and Sitis' wine and food. The 1810 Clerkenwell Diamond Robbery. Aziraphale having the missing Shakespeare Robin Hood play in the box in 2.06. The robbery-based fantasy Aziraphale was telling Crowley in Lockdown: ...the other night, when a couple of young lads broke into the back and tried to steal the cash(cache)box!

The Final 15 is a robbery.

The last two episodes see the shop attacked during The Meeting Ball and into the next morning. Aziraphale is robbed blind of his entire life. Characters are taken hostage. Signals for help are tried and fail. The cop, it turns out, was a stooge for the robbers. Whoever Derek Jacobi Is Playing broke in through the open door and robbed the place blind, as Maggie foreshadowed. As Nina foreshadowed he would, what did the robber leave behind?

More records. Muriel.

To rob, as we know, is to steal. It's to plunder or strip a place from someone through force and/or violence. That is why it was once, in addition to being descriptive of physical goods stolen from a person, also a word that was used for rape, for which non-consensual possession has been analogous since the show's first episode. That is why some of us think that the music goes insane on the look to Crowley in the scene below. Satan is robbing Crowley-- forcing him to identify him as The Metatron to Aziraphale and the angels and to let Aziraphale go alone with him.

Satan attacked Crowley in front of Aziraphale and, while Aziraphale pretended he didn't see it, he did, which is why he led "The Metatron" straight out the door in an effort to get him away from Crowley. Because, speaking of characters behaving very weirdly... anyone have a better explanation for why guard dog Crowley sat in that chair like he couldn't get out of it and encouraged Aziraphale to go alone with a guy who once tried to kill them? It just doesn't make any sense unless his words are not really his own and there's only one character we've seen do that to him.

And if Crowley's not the only one behaving out of character, then what else happened to Maggie at the mini-mart but something similar?

What happened in The Final 15? Satan robbed the bookshop.

He and The Metatron don't give a toss about the shop itself and plan to destroy it alongside everything else once Armageddon gets rocking. They're there to get Crowley and Aziraphale out of the way for Armageddon by dividing and conquering. Just because we've yet to see blood doesn't mean this wasn't robbery by force.

Satan took hostages at the start-- letting the ones go he didn't care about go and keeping the ones most likely to influence the shop's owner: Crowley and Muriel.

Satan and The Metatron sacrificed Muriel to their plan, not caring if Muriel explodes along with the shop when they kick off Armageddon a matter of *checks watch* basically any minute now after S2. We think Muriel is better off in the shop at the end of S2 but I'm not totally sure they are. I think it actually might be one of the most dangerous places to be in right now. The bookshop didn't burn down this time-- it was burned as safe space in every possible way. It's a crime scene.

The Metatron and Satan are here for revenge. The Metatron is letting Satan have Aziraphale to get Crowley and Aziraphale out of the way for Armageddon. There is no real job offer-- it's all Satan tempting Aziraphale into falling. Satan's revenge on Crowley and Aziraphale is to force Crowley to help him take Aziraphale right out from under his nose. That's the start of it, anyway.

Besides Armageddon and daring to have a relationship and a sense of self outside of the demonic collective of Hell what is Satan really pissed at Crowley and Aziraphale about?

His kid. Adam. Crowley and Aziraphale helping Adam against him.

If Satan has been lying in wait, still very, very angry at Crowley and Aziraphale for turning his son against him and if he's now here for revenge, then who else besides Aziraphale is then most in peril here?

Yes, my Job-and-Sitis-paralleling poppet... your big, cross duck and your kids are most imperiled here and S2 showed us that your kids are not just humanity writ large but, specifically, Maggie. The Small Back Room is of the bookshop that is you and Crowley. Maggie is your Adam. Will Satan come after your daughter? It's a concept posed in your paralleling/foreshadowing story earlier in the season... actually, it was also the entire plot of that paralleling story earlier in the season as well...

I feel like not going with Ennon and Keziah's theories on Satan's behavior is probably the best way to form a Good Omens theory 😂 so I'll stick with the idea that Satan very much would dare leave a revenge body count of Crowley and Aziraphale's adopted kids, as the Job minisode proved he'd do even with the spawn of "God's favorite human", let alone anybody else.

As, speaking of foreshadowing lines, this is really even more S2 than it was about S1:

Satan will even have a whole pseudo-philosophical chat about it with you first, amused that he's standing in a place called Give Me Coffee or Give Me Death and ordering a coffee while the plan is likely for this place, the women making him the coffee, and everyone on this street and on most of the planet to be dead by tomorrow.

Maggie is the only character who actually asked for coffee using that exact word in S2.

[canarydraws]

Putting wips of your characters from different campaigns on the same page is a mistake I was just trying to compare them for height reference and I accidentally created a fairy gf/goth gf dynamic! Now I’m SAD and MAD because these two are my own characters and the only way I’ll ever get to see them together is if I go off the rails and actually draw AU content for them!

…which I might. I have no idea what I’d draw but literally them just standing on the same page is cute and I want to see what my 5’5 space paladin and my 6’3 pf magus would do if they ever existed in the same room

[sysig]

So much experimenting to be done, where to even start (Patreon)

[thegreatyin]

and with that, evolution is complete.

i do think the scoundrel made the right choice, in the end. maybe- potentially- they think so too.

[countess-of-edessa]

the thing about taking advice from anyone on tiktok or instagram including catholic and christian type influencers, parenting advice, relationship advice, etc, or internalizing any stories of horrible relationships and betrayal people tell on those platforms, or reading about all the ways interpersonal relationships can end horribly and be cycled through extremely quickly on those platforms is that you are necessarily then consuming the thoughts and experiences of someone who is willing to put their face and name on a public social media platform to talk at you. and like 1% of those people have a good reason for doing so and the other 99% are completely unhinged. so everything you’re consuming has first gone through the filter of "is this person weird and insane enough to make Instagram reels of themselves crying?" and if the answer is yes maybe their advice doesn’t apply to your life because you’re a normal person who would not do that.

[bylertruther]

sometimes. people on here will say things where i know if i point-blank asked them "hey, do you like butches, femmes, and people that do not 'look' or 'act' queer?" they'll of course say yes duh. and i know if i asked them, "cool. do you think that an androgynous person or 'very gender nonconforming' (for lack of better phrasing) is more queer than someone that isn't?" they'll say no of course not.

but then you read the things they've said about how queer people present themselves, how they "should" present themselves once they've reached a fully realized state, and how it relates to gender and relationships and its like Hmmmmmmmmmm. i don't think you do like any of those three groups i mentioned actually if that's how you really feel on those issues lmao.

it's the same school of thought behind the perplexingly popular idea that because noah wears athleisure, he couldn't possibly be gay (before he came out, this was the common sentiment; and even now, people act like finn is more queer than noah, just because he "looks and acts" like it according to them). this idea that you have to look and act a certain way to be Actually Queer or Queer Enough, and if you don't, then that's because you've fallen victim to conforming or you just aren't as comfortable with your identity. (what? as if there's a single queer identity to begin with?)

that if you're a queer guy and you behave or look masculine, then you just haven't come out of your shell and accepted yourself or experimented enough. that if you're a queer woman and you're feminine, then the same applies, or you're not as queer as a butch woman, who does exhibit gender nonconformity, for example. and if you're butch or femme (+ other equivalents), or in a relationship with your counterpart, then you're perpetuating heteronormativity, as if that's even possible, and we all know that's so very, awfully, terribly Bad, you're a stain on the community, and you have issues you need to work out.

people don't have to look or act in a particular way to be acceptably queer enough. we don't all gravitate towards certain expressions of gender nonconformity or androgyny just because we're queer, and a failure to do that doesn't suggest that we're uncomfortable with ourselves and our identity. you can continue to be yourself as you were even after realizing you're queer. that's not impossible or a bad thing.

femmes and gay men that are masculine in any capacity are not traitors, confused, or less gay. some people are the way that they are, regardless of their sexuality. we don't all morph into the same person when we realize we're queer. that shouldn't be a difficult concept to understand? that's literally just... being a human and treating queer people as such.

those evil gay people who are in "masc/fem" relationships aren't perpetuating heteronormativity either. just because they exist outside of your realm of understanding, or have the kind of relationship that you wouldn't personally want for yourself, that doesn't mean that they aren't members of your community—which is the queer community, in case you forgot—and don't deserve respect, too.

like. it's just so demoralizing lmao. what's so hard to understand about accepting that people are all different and that just because we may belong to the same community, that doesn't mean that we are all the same and must fall in line? it's so tone-deaf, insulting, and just plain unrealistic. you may not mean it that way, but it is. that rhetoric just is.

feminine gay women exist. masculine gay men exist. sometimes they may experiment with their gender expression once realizing this, but they don't always and they don't have to to be considered queer. butch/fem relationships and other similar relationships are not imitations of heterosexuality, because they're fucking gay, and they do not adhere to traditional heterosexual roles, because, again, they're fucking gay.

your experiences and beliefs are not universal. gay people are not clones of each other. stop invalidating or speaking down on other queer people just because you can't relate to them personally. i know some people don't mean to insinuate these things, but you do. you are. constantly. and the people that fall in those categories you've deemed unacceptable and other, see it.

it's so... exhausting to face that in this space, which is supposed to be a respite from the physical world where that happens, too. and those actions, those beliefs that people share, they also bleed into the physical world and how you interact with other people in your community. it's not just little words that you write and have no meaning. it doesn't start and end with a fictional character. the things that you say matter and sometimes they're very troubling.

people who have been in those "fem/masc" relationships, or that identify with any kind of similar label, have not lived a life that's an imitation of heterosexuality, nor are they any less queer than you just because you haven't been in/participate in relationships like that.

[table-top-romulan-playing-games]

RE: the last post about Deanna becoming a Bridge Officer...

Wasn't she technically already a bridge officer? Or is there a difference between her being a Senior Officer/Counselor who happens to be on the bridge at all times next to the captain as a senior advisor, and a Bridge Officer who does the exact same thing but gets to sit in the captains chair?

If memory recall serves me, you can be a bridge officer without taking the Captains Test or whatever it's called, including the kobiyashi maru test, bc not all officers on the bridge are eligible to sit in the captains chair should it be requested???

Like for some reason I assumed that if you were allowed to be on the bridge working and manning stations, you were a Bridge Officer... But apparently in order to be a Bridge Officer you have to complete a test for Captains, although Crusher has the Bridge Officer Status, even though she doesn't operate on the bridge...

Literally the only difference I can see between you average Officer on the Bridge and a Bridge Officer is whether or not they are eligible to sit in the captains chair once in a blue moon..

Like Deanna is a Senior Officer, With Rank, who is frequently seen doing shifts on the Bridge as an Advisor and Picard's aid in Diplomacy, and your telling me she doesn't have the title of Bridge Officer bc she didn't take an exam to sit in Picard's Seat every 3rd Tuesday of the month????

Like "Line of Command" or even "Acting Captain Eligible" would've been better maybe???

[butchlifeguard]

something i was thinking about on stand yesterday.. danganronpa shsl lifeguard who tries to save a dying person they find, bonus points if they dont come clean about it at first because they think they actually killed that person with their efforts

[bookwyrminspiration]

I don't really have a final conclusion for this, I've just been thinking recently that I appreciate the effort Shannon made to say its okay to learn differently than others and have unique needs, however Exillium being the medium through which that message is conveyed in Unlocked falls short (at least for me) because...that's also the punishment school. Having different educational needs and being sent to a different school--not to mention one that's not even part of formal society and is literally in the wild--for poor behavior/choices are two very different things, but they've been lumped together.

Yes, it's entirely okay to learn differently and have unique needs, but that's not why kids get sent to Exillium. It's not a school to help accommodate their learning. Kids are, from what we've seen, sent almost always because they've caused problems and are deemed unfit for the typical schools. Disruptive, problematic, criminal, lesser, etc. So also having it be the alternative learning school kind of implies a correlation between having different needs and making poor choices/having problem behavior. Like none of these students "learn differently" (that we've been told at least) they caused problems (intentional or not) that people didn't want to deal with. Maybe this isn't representative of all Exillium students, but it's all we've seen so far that I can recall.

And yes Exillium is improving and did have a positive initial intention, but as it is right now I find myself (personally, these are my feelings) uncomfortable at it being used to say its okay to learn differently. Because it doesn't feel like it follows through on that message. Having the school where kids with criminal behavior are sent out of sight separate from the rest of society being the school for alternate learning styles just doesn't sit quite right.

And yes, some of the kids sent there were just labeled disruptive/problematic and they didn't actually do anything wrong but be themselves, but their being fucked over by the system doesn't change that that is how the system works.

I'm not really going anywhere with this and it's difficult to articulate (I'm sure I've missed a few clarifying points because I keep debating with myself back and forth) because I do think Shannon meant well, I'm not an expert, and there are always arguments to be made to the contrary (like I said, I've been debating with myself). It's just something I've been thinking about because I always feel icky reading that part of Linh's Exillium commentary, but maybe I'm making a problem out of nothing.

[nururu]

hiyori and Zoro is one of my fave Zoro ships and one day I'll write an analysis on them and convert all of you.

[a-god-in-ruins-rises]

so my family usually visits my aunt’s for thanksgiving. but we also like having our own thanksgiving dinner. so usually we buy an extra turkey and the weekend following thanksgiving we have a second thanksgiving dinner.

that’s what we’re doing today. so i’m over here sipping on eggnog (that i made), chopping onions for the stuffing, listening to christmas music, etc. the whole family is participating. 

life is just so good, man. 

[hallwyeoo]

Maybe a controversial take but I think the themes and ideas of tlou1&2 are pretty aligned, actually, and the difference is pt2 forces you into the other perspective instead of just hinting at it like pt 1 does (for example, if in tlou1 we played sections as Marlene before outbreak/before Anna’s death/ as Ellie is being brought to the fireflies)

[sysig]

My kingdom for a "So you say” (Patreon)

[incertis-itineribus]

there is a difference between "it's good" and "i like it" and that difference is my innate ability to weed out nepo babies with 100% accuracy

[tempestimes]

I'm so tired and need to work but I just want to say how...relieving the process has been for me this few weeks or so of letting go of toxic people, making new friends, and reaching out and reconnecting with old friends. After being in a particularly shitty 'friendship' (it honestly felt more parasitical than anything sometimes), it was so weird to meet people who respect my boundaries and listened to what I had to say, rather than just use me to satisfy their own wants or needs. I'm still working on making sure I set and keep those boundaries up, but yeah. I'm glad I'm making progress.

[kh2prologue]

sick and ridiculous about juniper and orion rn. what if the part of you that i admired most was the part that i was most ashamed of and what if our unwarranted and foolish trust in one another paid dividends despite the fact that it never should have worked out and what if even after i found out what you were really like i tried harder to love you anyway