#and that causes a whole ripple effect that changes so many of the characters and dynamics

[shyguygubbs]

I was thinking about kotlc recently and how the Black Swan originally wanted to wait to bring Sophie into the Lost Cities until way later, probably when she turned 18, and how different of a person Sophie would have been if that were the case.

Like at the start of the series, she's this child prodigy who has to go to community college in the fall at the age of 12 because her parents won't let her go to Yale (a totally valid parental choice btw), and the thing is I think she would have THRIVED in that environment. Like at first she would be scared and hesitant because in all other school environments she has been bullied for being as smart as she is, but now she's going into a school that people choose to go to in order to learn. Community college doesn't just have mean, jealous teenagers who attend, there are people of all ages and all walks of life who are ready to learn. Sure, Sophie would still be the youngest one there, and I doubt it would be super easy with the whole mind reading thing, but she would be in a much more supportive environment when it comes to learning than anything else she's experienced.

She'd be able to make friends with her peers, being able to bond over a shared love of whatever they're studying, and these friends don't think she's too smart or too weird. She maybe finds some way to muffle the voices in her head better than her earplugs did. Yeah, she still gets headaches, but she can manage it. I can see her taking as many classes as she can, figuring out her passions and what she might want to do as a career. She'd be in a fantastic place academically to transfer to any school she wants when she turns 18. I can even see her parents letting her graduate when she's 17 and allowing her to transfer to a four year college to get a bachelor's in whatever she wants to study, whatever she finds her passion for, because she worked hard for this, and doesn't hate school now, and has found a path for herself in life that feels right.

And then the Black Swan shows up and whisks her away from all of that, and she's heartbroken because she doesn't need to be taken away from everything she's worked so hard for. Yeah it feels nice to finally have the whole mind reading question answered, but she doesn't need a new place to belong, she has one. I imagine this Sophie being a lot more confident in herself, but a lot angrier too. She's fascinated by her new world, but desperately wants to go back home, to just live out the life she's been working towards. I can see her working side by side with the Black Swan from the jump, because she's in a world with injustice and she can't just sit back and let this slide, but constantly fighting back this resentment for them and how they took everything from her. I think of how canon Sophie had a brief moment of hesitation when it came to training her Telepathy, and I think this older Sophie would be conflicted between wanting to know more about this abnormality that she's been dealing with her whole life, and wanting to cling to her human identity and her old life as much as she possibly can. Because she's been ripped away from it, and no matter what her genetics say, this Sophie still views herself as human.

[cassiasims]

I'd love to hear more about how stacy haunts the narrative :)

OH I’VE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS ONE. i’m going to keep comparing her to amber just because the post where i first mentioned stacy haunting the narrative was originally about amber and why i think she doesn’t haunt the narrative (as opposed to stacy). anyway:

-just logistically speaking: stacy doesn’t come back after her departure in s2. obviously she gets a finale cameo, but like who doesn’t lol; for all intents and purposes she is defined by her absence. we are told all the key facts about who she is and what she has done—constitutional lawyer, house’s ex, someone who lived with him and loved him—well before she ever appears; stacy’s identity is less important than the role she plays in the narrative, which is simply not to be there. compare this with, say, amber, where she keeps coming back in hallucination form and the twist with her being wilson’s girlfriend is that…it’s amber, y’know? there’s a real tangible dead space left by stacy in a way that there isn’t by amber, because stacy is defined by her leaving in a way that amber isn’t.

-all the parallels between house/stacy and cameron/chase, which i’ve written up a separate post on (can’t link here as i’m on mobile but it’s in my #asks tag). but tl;dr: if chase ‘is’ house (to put it in very reductive terms), then cameron ‘is’ stacy. there’s also echoes of house/stacy in foreman/thirteen—him switching her off the placebo without her knowing because he thinks it’s the right thing to do, because he (believes he) loves her. amber’s whole thing is that she’s unique, a distinct change of pace from wilson’s usual relationships; he relapses back to his old ways when he gets back together with sam. but for stacy it’s the opposite; her dynamic with house crops up time and time again in other people, other relationships, whether it’s called out explicitly or not.

-stacy causes so many ripple effects with both presence and her departures (pre canon and in s2). without stacy, does it take house and cuddy so long to get together? without stacy, does house get to keep full use of his leg? without stacy, is there more of a chance for house/cameron? you can take a gander at all of those questions, but it is REALLY difficult and, imo, borderline impossible to answer them definitively. stacy is really inextricable from a lot of the pre-canon and canon timeline; a version of the show without her (as a plot device, that is) would look radically different. compare that to amber, or to cuddy, or to cameron; yes, things shift and reboot to accommodate for their absence, but the general structure of the show and its characters continue on mostly as they were. the fallout the first time stacy leaves is nuclear (albeit also combined with the infarction), and it isn’t much better in s2; house struggles with increased psychosomatic pain for the rest of the season. do we even get ketamine arc without the increase in pain from stacy??? do we get tritter??? etc etc

i will probably think of way more examples as soon as i post this but these are the most salient ones, i think. it’s not that stacy as a person is so unique and special (although i love her and think she is an excellent character with GREAT chemistry with house), but the ROLE she plays within the narrative certainly is. she haunts it, if you will. hopefully you guys can pick up what i’m putting down here.

[zenshigarakilover]

I just realized that if All for one wouldn't have give Yoichi a quirk the whole OFA vs AFO thing wouldn't have happen.

So no Izuku become a hero and No happy ending. What do you think about it?

If he didn't give him a quirk wouldn't Yoichi still end up dying but this time with no hope of ever getting him back in any form? :(

That would mean we would be dealing with a severely depressed AFO who is only taking over the world because he might as well complete what he already had planned out. But he does it without any joy or enthusiasm. Bleak ending for him imo, ends up ruling the world but becomes extremely lonely because he killed the one person he wanted to be by his side as he rules.

Let's say somehow Yoichi didn't die and ended up joining AFO after having his spirit broken in the vault.

Well it would be completely terrible for everyone, but AFO would be having the time of his life which would be fun to see. So so so so much would change, the world and our characters would be so different they probably wouldn't feel the same. There are so many variables at play here that I can't confidently say how things would've turned out. But ultimately I think it would be interesting to see how AFO would handle being in charge of everything. I would love to see this concept in a fic or something.

I often wonder what a world ruled by AFO would look like since he's so vague about his plans. I mean yes we know he wants to destabilize the Japanese government and crash the economy. That way it can lead to a ripple effect and cause the rest of the world's governments governments to crash as well so he can swoop in and be the one to bring stability as long as they serve him. Blah blah blah typical evil plan. The thing is though... this will be nothing short of a political nightmare to sort out and I'm not sure if AFO has it in him to handle it. His own plan to have everyone rely on his quirks seems childish and improbable and is only done because he wants attention. Not because he cares about the everyday man's plight. Let's put it to a vote.

[oh-no-another-idea]

WIP Questionnaire tag

Today I've collected 2 very old tags from the lovelies @mysticstarlightduck and @saltysupercomputer -- thank you!!! <3 I'll fill this one out for Invisible Girl :)

1. What’s the first part of your WIP that you created?

The very first part was the idea of a long caper on a moving train. Though the train changed a lot, and even was briefly cut at one time, that vision remains the heart of this story.

2. If your story was a TV show, what would the theme song/intro be?

This is a tricky question, says the writer who is extremely music-less, no playlists or anything to be found. I think I'd want something that expresses the time period, some jaunty piano music that could segue into a darker theme...🤩

3. What are your favorite characters that you made? Why?

In this WIP...I'd have to say Paris is the teacher's pet by a little bit, he's just...he's my type of character, so I have extra special fun torturing him. But Antonio surprised me with how much he's blossomed and grown throughout the course of my drafting, and I'd say he's a close second now.

4. What other pieces of media do you think your fanbase would share?

Well, this is hard to answer without tooting my own horn, but I hope perhaps it would be another book for fans of Six of Crows by Leigh Bardugo and other political/urban fantasies.

5. What has been your biggest struggle with your WIP?

Ugh. Plot. This story started out as both a heist and a murder mystery, and it was awfully ambitious of me. I don't know enough to write a murder mystery, and I'm not even sure it suited the story?? To be discovered, by later me, fingers crossed 🙄

6. Are there any animals in your story? Talk about them!

No featured animals, although a couple get mentions as background ingredients. There are some stray dogs in the city, a couple crates of chickens on the train...not much more.

7. How do your characters travel/get around?

Haha. When not on a cross country train ride, they can be found in taxis, streetcars, and the occasional horse driven carriage (Antonio).

8. What part of your WIP are you working on right now?

I'm neck deep in draft 2, holding up different chunks and seeing if they can be stitched together or need to be thrown out. Half the time it's invigorating and fun, half the time I wander around crazed, wondering if I should just scrap the whole thing and move on. le sigh

9. What aspects (tropes, maybe?) You think will draw your audience in?

This is a story about friendship, first and foremost, about connection and loneliness and learning to let yourself open up. It's an exploration of causing a ripple, of who we become when our actions have no effect. I think these are questions that everyone can connect with in some way and find exploring them interesting and entertaining.

As for tropes, well: Found Family, Heists, Magic versus Machines, Self Discovery, Adventure, Loneliness, Friendship, Friends to Lovers.

10. What are your hopes for your WIP?

I hope to wrangle the story into something that I feel pleased by, and to share it with friends and family, including some friends I have that are already authors, and start accepting feedback. I know the first novel you're ever serious about isn't usually destined for great things, but if I could use this experience to learn and grow as a writer, my next few (many) projects can go farther. :)

That being said. If I was dreaming, I'd get this baby published.

Passing the tags on to @nrivanwrites @reneesbooks @eccaiia @revenantlore @sarandipitywrites and anyone else who sees this -- no pressure!

[langfield]

Hi. I had a question about Alderman. I remember someone on Reddit saying there's no reason for him not to be alive or in Caledon in the living world so surely when the timelines combine he'll still be alive? Although Max seems to be certain he's dead/expunged from existence going by her journal entries. What do you think? thanks

hello! so, the alderman thing is rather tricky, because his status ( as either alive or dead ) is never actually confirmed by max nor moses. all we know about the situation is this : alderman, after touching a version of himself, completely ceased to exist in dead world … nobody knows him, and now his mother never had him at all, with her pregnancy being morphed into abdominal pains instead. there are pieces of his presence scattered around if you know where to look, but overall? vincent alderman is nothing short of an anomaly, something that once existed and has since been removed from that particular version of earth. he was sucked into some sort of vortex before even that disappeared into nothingness as well. it’s a rather intense fate for a character and implies a sort of schrödinger's cat scenario, where alderman is forever inbetween being alive or dead, since we never figure out what really happened to him. my tentative theory is that he’s alive but stuck between timelines eternally? almost hidden, if you will. my partner’s imagery of the whole thing is that if you unraveled the strings of time, he’d slip out and be visible again. think of it as him stuck in a knitted purse, i guess? though that’s just my idea.

we don’t know anything about living world alderman, besides the fact that he should still live in lakeport, vermont, and should be a detective on the force. as it stands, i’d say there isn’t an alderman at all anywhere, anymore. given how intense time-based consequences are, i find it highly unlikely that living world alderman is just fine and dandy … again, he didn’t just die, he was instead effectively erased from time entirely! that’s rather severe, and it makes more sense to me that this caused a ripple effect across all of time and space : like safi’s and max’s storm, which tears into every caledon timeline regardless of choices made or not made. this also adds a scary layer of permanency to double exposure that is rather needed? there is no fixing what happened to alderman. he may still be in need of saving, but it will take more than timelines clashing to fix his predicament ; which is already a pretty hefty feat on it’s own! i like how nervous alderman’s erasure makes you feel initially, how you can’t help but think of someone else falling into the same tragic fate. or how reggie got so, so lucky … there are many things max can’t fix, and this is one of said things to me.

to clarify : these are just my opinions, all of which aren’t backed up by anything except feelings and vibes. the handling of alderman’s character and plot was rather poor, without any proper conclusions or evidence to back up anything outside the obvious. i’m being rather kind in assuming that a.) there was plans to pick up the alderman plotline in the rumored de sequel, and b.) they didn’t mention alderman again because there was nothing to mention when the timelines collided, since nothing changed about his fate. i hope my answer is satisfying somewhat, even if not backed by any evidence!

[thetwilightroadtonightfall]

re: this post [see below if link is broken], I’ve got so many Ephemera thoughts that I’m just gonna dump

“the things we develop to keep us alive often change us for the worse” if I’m being really honest, I need this so freakin bad for Ephemera. It’s easy to make him noble and stalwart, to keep him as the good force of light that keeps shining and guiding. But as a lot of us have said time and again, light corruption is an under-utilized concept that would be cool to see more of. I think it would be extremely extremely interesting to make him flawed as a result of being reformed by the trauma of losing Player, and by extension, everyone close to him, to darkness

I’ve said in my essay that Ephemera is a catalyst character, and ML confirms that this is still true even when he’s not physically present on screen anymore. As master, leader and founder (and father), his influence on other people is naturally going to be very powerful. So all this requires is a shift in his mindset—a realization, a fear, a new rule that light is the only path a keyblade wielder should ever go down, lest they bring destruction—in order for him to cause a ripple effect on the generations after him.

It doesn’t have to be a full-blown villain arc necessarily. Recently, I’ve said that he can still be a good person despite developing the extremist ideology that darkness = evil. In fact, I believe he would develop this with good intentions, just wanting to keep his family and other people around him safe from the dangers of darkness, no matter what it takes. Same deal with Eraqus and all.

And the thing is, this will be the wrong choice, and we know that because of Riku in the future (it’s a whole other story of whether or not Riku could be one of his descendants, but it would be quite poetic if things were to go this way, with Riku learning truth and undoing family mindsets about darkness, wielding it for good). And Ephemera may never actually learn that he was wrong within his lifetime, or he’ll learn too late. It may even be the reason why he sticks around for hundreds of years later. Would he feel guilty? Ashamed? Worried about the remaining wielders? All the drama that takes place during ML had to have come from somewhere, and I wouldn’t be too surprised if it’s from him

It’s a fascinating possibility! An extension to his character that would really give him new dimension. And I would especially love to follow a journey that involves both Player2 and Brain unraveling this key piece of history, and a new facet to Ephemera that neither of them ever knew before.

screenshot of the post that inspired this in case it gets deleted:

[kathleenkatmary]

I find the contrast between Gideon and Evelyn really interesting. We see Gideon have his encounters with the echoes, and they clearly bother him, but it never reaches the point that it does for Evelyn. I suppose that could come down to how much they experience and such. Gideon has a goal, something he feels is important that he must do. And while I suppose it could be argued that he's able to have that goal and work toward it because he's less effected by the echoes than Evelyn is, I wonder how much of his ability to not be over taken by the echoes actually comes from having that goal.

We see a real contrast between Gideon and Evelyn in one moment when he goes to get her from her house. She says she can't go because the washer is going to break and she has to fix it, and Gideon responds by telling her that she knows what's going to happen the next day just as well as he does.

But to her, that really seems to be just another of all the many, many things that just keep happening over and over again to her. Unlike Gideon, who looked at this horrible thing that he knows is going to happen, that keeps happening, and is trying to change thing stop it. Evelyn's way of 'dealing' with things was to just hide herself away from the world to try to escape the echoes. But there's never any way to escape the echoes of herself. So her way of dealing with things and trying to stay grounded clearly hasn't done much to keep her grounded and sane.

Gideon, on the other hand, doesn't try to hide away from everything. The only way to stop what he's trying to stop is to engage with the world, which means accepting the possibility of regularly encountering echoes. But he's clearly in a much better place, mentally and cognitively, than Evelyn. The different really does seem to be that he has a goal, an objective to follow. Trying to stop the bombing, or even more specifically, find the culprit, seems to be something that really does keep him grounded. Almost as though embracing it all and using it helps to stabilize things.

But I think that opens up the interesting possibility that he's created this problem for himself to solve because it's the only way he can deal with it, that his fanatical devotion to his repeated quest isn't because he thinks or knows it's really the right thing to do or that it will make things better to stop it, but because it is the only way he knows to remain somewhat stable. Like, it's less that he's fighting through echoes he experiences and the effect it has on him in order to keep his fight going and achieve his goal, and more that he's able to get through them and somewhat keep them at bay because of his goal.

I think that's a really interesting possibility for a few different reasons. For one, because it just really adds a new layer to both his character/story and to his relationship with Lucy (and, by extension, Isaac and even Sylvia). As long as it was just him involved in the whole thing, it was relatively clean, he didn't have to think too much about the potential harm he could be doing, and he didn't have to question if the changing what happened actually would be for the best. But by saving Sylvia and waking up Lucy, things got a lot more complicated and messy. He's had to come face to face with the impact the changes he makes could have and just what kind of ripples those changes can cause.

Which brings me to another thing I find really interesting about that possibility, and it's the way it really does set up Gideon really having to look at those potential ripple effects and really think about whether or not changing things really would be the right thing to do, the best thing for the world, or if the goal of it all is just the best thing for him.

It seems like saving Sylvia seems to be the first time he's done something that had such significant ripples on the rest of reality. And now that he's coming face to face with the impacts the changes he makes can have, he's being put in the position for probably the first time of really having to think about what the impact of finding/stopping the bomber could really have and all the different things that could change because of it. So I think having that angle of the goal being the thing that helps keep Gideon grounded makes that all a lot richer, because it opens up a lot of big questions about what the right thing to do really is and whether his goal really is about saving people or saving himself.

And make no mistake, I'm almost positive that The Devil's Hour is going to go down the same route so many time travel mysteries do and have the bomber and their actions/agenda be a direct result of Gideon meddling with the timelines. So having his mission be motivated more by trying to keep himself grounded rather than honestly trying to save people would make that an even more interesting thing to explore.

The Devil's Hour - S02E05 Birth of a Tragedy

I hadn't seen anyone commenting upon how awful life must be for those who can perceive the echoes or ghosts or whatever you want to call them. Evelyn is just a mess from things like the moment when she looks in the mirror. Sylvia was left in a catatonic state from all the ghosts she was hearing or seeing until Isaac reattached her to reality. Even Gideon has his disturbing moments as we've seen.

Isaac has his watch to keep the ghosts at bay. Gideon has his little box of items. Evelyn was going through the same routine time and time again at that remote cottage where the only ghosts were of herself. I think Lucy's love and concern for Isaac kept her grounded. It's interesting that Sylvia seems to be no longer troubled by ghosts after Isaac helped her.

And I have a feeling that in season 3 Gideon will learn that maybe he really wasn't changing things for the better.

[friendlybowlofsoup]

5 Things You Never Get Tired of Writing!

@heart-forge tagged me, and ofc I must comply (ノωヽ)

This is very obvious, but I have lots of fun with sensory descriptions. To me, mundane physical sensations take on a lot of charm when meticulously described, and I definitely abuse that to make my writing more immersive. For GotRM in particular, I've been having a lot of fun connecting emotions/thoughts to different tastes and smells, and I do let myself run wild with it all.

Character inner conflict, but specifically when it arises from cowardice. Actions, or non-actions, caused by fear draw me more than most other types of conflict, because it causes characters to act against their moral judgement. The self-resentment that often follows is just too tasty to resist, so cowardice/faint-heartedness is a common character flaw for me.

Non-verbal expressions of character relationships. Dialogue is a lot of fun too, but man. The nuance of actions, the slight ambiguity of emotions unspoken, and all types of skinship just add so much more to characters as a whole. This will also explain why many character asks on this blog have little to no dialogue, hehe.

Alternate scenes/endings lol. This is what drove me to write an IF, but I love exploring all the different ways a scene could go, and further exploring the ripple effect of events caused by those changes. When I originally wrote GotRM, I ended up writing three or four different endings, and all of that would, of course, lead to what it has become today.

I'm pretty sure this isn't what the prompt means, but I love writing outlines. I have a pretty busy schedule, so I can't write in long sessions as much as I want, but outlines are easy to jump in and out of! And then when I actually get to write, the outline helps in keeping me on track and really reduces writer's block. Some people really hate outlines, I understand why, but for me, I could not live without them.

Waah, as for tagging, I'm not active as much these days, so I'd feel bad for popping in just to call someone out. However, if any writer sees this, this is my open invitation :3 Honestly, this probably could pass as writing advice, so please join :3

[deadlockorignalfilms]

I think as a culture we really need to retire the idea that a show can "jump the shark" or "die". That if a show makes one wrong move it can never be good again

It really doesn't make a whole lot of sense when you realise that a TV show is made by artists, artists who can leave, be replaced or find new inspiration

A long time ago it was a very convenient way to explain why later episodes of a show didn't feel right. But like most scientific theories it's not quite correct

If the entire creative team of a series leaves, and is replaced with people who have lots of passion for the project and fresh ideas, there's absolutely no reason that a show or franchise can't be good again someday.

I would have thought that we had matured past this idea, but I see a lot of video essays with the title " the day that ___ died" and some of them probably mean that sincerely and are not just doing clickbait

I've seen plenty of TV shows and anime where things get really shitty for like a season or two and then the creators are able to pull themselves together and turn the ship around.

In the Modern Age of television we have direct feedback between fans and creators, as well as television Seasons taking multiple years to produce, and smaller episode orders. More than ever artists have the opportunity to take several steps back, and look at things in a way that they weren't able to before. With shows like The Simpsons they had to make 20 episodes a year, but most modern TV shows are lucky to get eight.

This might be a good way to explain sitcoms from the 70s and '80s that were in constant overlapping production, never taking breaks and just getting into weird habits. but that's not the case for modern television.

This may be partially thanks to the proliferation of serialized television, if a show has to reset completely at the end of every episode then there are only so many times you can do that before it starts to get dull, but the modern television show has massive status quo changes that can cause Ripple effects for seasons and give people lots of opportunities d

For creative storytelling

Looking at a show like Rick and Morty I think is a perfect example of the opposite of a show dying. Rick and Morty started to get crappy in season 3 then it got good again then it got crappy then it got good again then it got crappy.

I think it would be really really stupid to say that a show that lasts for 50 years could make one wrong move at season 4 and then be bad for the rest of the series no matter how many creative teams try to work on a show.

There are people who try to argue that Saturday Night Live stopped being good in 1978 and I bet there are people who argue that doctor who stopped being good in 1970. I would like to think that we can agree that that is a silly thing to say, so why is it the people are taken seriously when they say that about The Simpsons, that it can never be good again?

The only time you can write several decades of a show off as bad is if the creative team just refuses to leave. I think people who don't know a lot of about The Simpsons think that the show was just kind of magically good until season 9 and then suddenly it was bad because they ran out of ideas. but what really happened was around season 12 all of the people who worked on the first four seasons came back to the show and they just refuse to leave, they mandated that everything has to return to the status quo at the end of every episode , threw away character development that happened in the in between seasons and just generally made it really hard for any new and creative ideas to flourish ( not impossible but very hard)

The simpsons has only just recently begun it to turn itself around again, I think largely because the person who's been in charge since season 12 has been working on less and less episofes, and his successor is in charge of more and more of them.

[eyemarked]

potential ending theory: a world without fear

i have a theory about a possible ending of the magnus archives that i think would be satisfyingly horrific, thematically appropriate, and well-foreshadowed. i’m sure that someone has already thought about this basic concept, but my reasoning is a bit elaborate so i just wanted to lay out some thoughts and document my own theory process. 

i think that everyone in the world is going to become fearless like georgie, killing the entities forever. this will also involve the extinction. reasoning under the cut:

(given how many different connections i’m making here, and how long this post ended up being, i’ve bolded important words/phrases in some sections for accessibility. this whole post is the equivalent of a messy red string board, so i hope it makes more sense this way!)

the setup

georgie barker is established in ep 94 dead woman walking to be fearless, and thus immune to the effects of the entities. this trait of hers is due to an encounter she had with the end, which affected her deeply and changed her on a fundamental level, removing her fear.

there’s a fundamental question here that has not been addressed by canon: how and why would an encounter with the end remove a person’s fear in such a unique way? why would the end benefit from georgie’s state of fearlessness?

jon establishes in ep 164 the sick village that “[the entities] can’t be destroyed while there are still people to fear them.”

oliver banks establishes in ep 168 roots that the end will eventually consume all of humanity, leaving the world a lifeless husk and starving the entities to death in the absence of anyone to fear them.

oliver also speculates that “[as] the other Entities grow in their awareness of their own end, the grotesque ripples of their own impossible panic shall glut and feed my master, gorging it to the point where – perhaps it will even surpass the Watcher in prominence.”

note how the phrasing implies a level of sentience and consciousness! according to oliver, the entities themselves can feel fear - specifically, fear of their own death.

various people in season 5, most notably jon himself, have referred to the apocalypse as “the change”.

the extinction, also known as the terrible change, was speculated by adelard dekker to be an emerging power fueled by the human fear of, quote ep 134 time of revelation: “catastrophic change. A change in our world that will wipe out what it means to be us, and leave something else in its place ... leave us something alien and cold. We will press a button that in a moment will destroy everything we have ever been.”

in ep 94, georgie explains that her encounter with the end initially took away all her emotions and left her numb.

the very first adelard dekker statement was a manifestation of the end that initially appeared to be the extinction.

in ep 157 rotten core, adelard dekker speculates that the extinction might be “an existential fear that flows through the others like a vein of ore.”

in ep 168, martin, who had spent the entirety of season 4 studying the extinction, mistakenly refers to oliver banks’ end domain as “the rotten core”.

as established in ep 111 family business, the flesh is a relatively new animal fear of slaughterhouses. it manifests as body horror to humans because animal fear “gets weird [when it] gets mixed all up with human neuroses”.

in other words, if a fear originates in one type of mind, its manifestations can get weird and oblique when applied to a different type of mind.

in ep 175 epoch, while they are in a domain of the extinction, jon indirectly references ep 168: “Everything ends, I suppose. Even this place. Can’t last forever. Eventually… it will die as well.” 

notably, this is seemingly the only instance in season 5 of jon independently bringing up the conclusions made in oliver’s report.

the theory

the extinction is not entirely an entity in its own right (or maybe it is; fear soup!). in fact, the extinction is a manifestation or offshoot of the end, filtered through the minds of the entities themselves.

in other words, the extinction is the “entity” of the other entities’ fear of their own death.

the entities can only die if there is no one left to fear them; the extinction is actually the fear of this scenario - i.e. a world where no one fears them.

when filtered through a human mind, this fear becomes the “extinction” manifestations that we’ve seen in the podcast, in the same way that the fear of slaughterhouses becomes the flesh when filtered through a human mind.

georgie’s encounter with the end in university was actually a manifestation of the extinction; in fact, georgie herself is now a manifestation of the extinction.

georgie’s existence as a fearless human being, completely immune to the entities, is a constant memento mori for them - a reminder to the entities that they are capable of death (specifically, death by starvation). the end/extinction uses her to fuel and feed off this fear.

the apocalypse ritual in 160 did, in fact, kick off the full manifestation of the extinction, in that the state of the world has now gone from “the entities might hypothetically be capable of dying” to “the entities will inevitably die and will eventually be fully aware of this fact.” 

the show will end with the fulfillment of the extinction - all of humanity stripped of fear, as georgie was (and perhaps of other basic emotions as well, in the same way that georgie’s encounter initially left her lacking all feelings). this will kill the entities, but also fundamentally change the nature of humanity forever.

to tie this back around to what i’ve been saying: the extinction is described as the fear that humanity will end, or change in some way to become unrecognizable and alien. and a human race completely without fear would definitely be exactly that.

the thematic relevance and narrative closure

the entities as a metaphor for capitalism has always been in the subtext of the show, but as other, better meta has noted, season 5 has seriously ramped it up and made it much more obvious and present. what better way to resolve the podcast and the problem of the entities than by destroying the entire fear system at its foundations?

demonstrating that individual action and even system-wide reform (i.e. jon's plan in ep 194 parting to take over and appoint "good" people to avatarhood) will not ever lead to real long-term change, and that the only way to truly defeat the system is to rip it out at the roots? 

as well as acknowledging that doing so is far from an ideal solution due to the immediate inevitable harm that the upheaval would cause to countless innocent people, but would potentially lead to a better and safer future for humanity in the long run?

oliver banks’ statement from ep 168 has not yet become relevant. given how big of a game-changer it is in terms of the stakes of the decisions the characters are making, i would be baffled if the finale didn’t involve it in some way.

going by the way that tma’s writing and structure has previously set up its big twists, georgie’s fearlessness should factor into a plot point in a major way. this has not yet happened, and so given how close we are to the finale, it’s got to be a part of the finale if it’s a part of anything at all.

obviously, i might be wrong; all of this could be complete nonsense. but given the amount of setup for the concept that the entities will die if no one fears them, and the fact that this scenario hasn’t been brought up in-podcast as a possibility at all yet, it feels pretty probable to me. at the very least, regardless of whether my elaborate redstringing about the extinction is correct or not, i think we’re getting an ending involving a world without fear.

[author-a-holmes]

I LOVE THIS!

There's so many little gems in here even if I can already tell this whole process isn't quite for me!! I read it before going to bed but I'm going to have to reread this a couple of times and tease out the parts of your process I want to try implementing within my own!! <3

I'm going to do a little bit of a breakdown on what I'm going to try out, and what I'm not going to try, beneath the cut, in case anyone is interested in seeing how I incorporate other techniques into my own toolset, but @unbearable-lightness-of-ink don't feel obliged to wade through it!

Just thank you very much for sharing! I love learning new methods and techniques, and hearing from other writers about their processes ^_^ <3

1) Round Out The First Draft

Yes! I do this already. I don't go back and make edits while I'm writing the draft. That's possibly the fastest was for me to confuse myself, and get lost in the reeds. This is also why I need a 2nd draft for Darkling. I didn't have a huge number of things to add or change with Changeling, so when I got to the end of my frist draft it was really clean.

I start with an outline on the computer, and then as I'm writing I will build a physical timeline as I write stuck to a large sheet of craft paper that's taped to the wall of a cupboard in my living room. This really helps me keep everything neat, and logical, and in order, so I've never needed to go back and add a whole lot of stuff at the end of the first draft before.

Darkling's become a different beast, I've still got about 7 chapters to go, and I already know (from my physical timeline building) that I need to add a lot of content, and at one point a whole new chapter, which is why I'm looking at a 2nd draft for the first time.

2) Leave It To Cool

This is common writing advice because it works really well for a lot of people. It doesn't work for me. I've tried it, and I get bored too easily. I have to be able to dive straight back into a project once I'm done, and I beat myself up for that for a long time, until I learned that Sarra Cannon does the same thing (Vindication tastes sweet lol)

Seriously though, I would always recommend to authors to follow this step because it DOES work best for most writers.

It doesn't for me I think, in part, because my distance from my stories takes literal years. I can remember every detail of my books, the stories never fade. I can remember the plots of stories I wrote over twenty years ago, so it's easier for me to just dive straight back in. At most, I usually give myself a week, but that's more to give myself a break and a rest, before starting work on my edits as I usually find them very mentally draining.

3) Rewrite

Ah, the bit I'm most excited to dig into, since I've never actually done a rewrite before!

Starting with a brand new blank doocument, and setting it up via a split screen on my main desktop PC (so the screen is large enough) was my plan, so I'm glad to see I was on the right track with that Lol

Adding in chapters, changing transitions, fixing magic systems, etc, all of these are what I was referring to when I said rewrites are for big, structural changes.

And I think this leans into where every writer writes differently, and every book requires a slightly different process. Rarely do I need to change things at the developmental edit level, by the time my first draft if finished.

The fact that I do this time is exactly why I'm going to move into a rewrite.

And you mention those changes is where your drafts split off from the original. I agree, I can already see where some of the pieces I need to add are potentially going to change later scenes in the story. Some of the scenes may change the relationships between characters, like a series of cause-and-effect ripples. It's going to be rather exciting to see how those ripples span out.

Take notes as you go; I do this already for the first draft, it only seems to make sense that I'd continue doing it on a rewrite. Things I spot and need to address in my editing passes that wo't change the trajectory of the story. Often these aree foreshadowing pieces I need to include for me, sometimes I'll notice I've foreshadowed something and I'll want to go back and make sure there's more than one instance for readers to pick up on, for example.

A lot of the details you mention addressing in a rewrite, such as Character Dialogue, POV imbalances, or setting details, are things I address as I'm drafting. I can't not, because if it's wrong, if it feels wrong or sounds wrong my brain stalls on them, and I grind to a complete halt.

The sheer number of times I've had to backtrack and rewrite a chapter from a different character's POV because my head just won't let me keep writing in the wrong POV is too many to count.

When it comes to researching technical details, this is also something I usually do during the outlining stage, and include in my pre-writing worldbuilding research. Again, has become a different beast for me this time because I do have a few things I need to worldbuild in that I didn't want to pause writing to figure out. The downsides to writing a large majority of the first draft during Nanowrimo, tbh.

4) Fill plot holes, reorder scenes, and add missing stuff

This is the stage of your process where you lose me. I don't make huge structural changes in this way because I plan out the shape of the story before I start writing.

This is part of my outlining process, and I don't have sections where I add [Write this scene] or [add transition] because I cannot write out of order. And if I'm going to reorder scenes, that happens during the first draft because, well, I can't write out of order.

I've said it a couple of times, but Darkling is a bit of a different beast for me. I know I need to add in a new chapter somewhere between chapters 19 and 20. This is highly unusual for me and my process, but is also why I'm doing a rewrite for the first time.

I can't just go back and add that extra chapter, it will feel really disjointed and weaving in the section into the story requires, for me, to write the story from the beginning and weave in the new strands the during the flow of the overall narrative.

5) Time travel aka chronology aka “how the fuck did they to all those things before sunset?”

Yesssssss!!! I love this! But, not a big but, BUT, I do this while drafting.

This is part of the reason I create a physical outline/timeline on a sheet of paper on the wall while writing my first draft. I stick post it notes on the wall, and on each note I give rough details of what happens in that chapter... and at the top of the post it note I put which day of the story it is, or what date it is if the story is set in the real world.

I started doing this for Changeling because the vampire school classes ran overnight, which mean every day was technically spanning 2 days, and I got myself really confused on the timeline... but I found it SO helpful that I've continued the habit.

(I'm gonna hope this is small enough/blurry enough that all the spoilers are unreadable *crosses fingers*)

6) Vibe checks

This one I want to adopt wholesale. In combination with your note about how editing each chapter in isolation (which is my current method) doesn't give you a birds eye view, because you're totally right.

I tend to have a particularly good birds eye view of my story, because I don't forget my plots, like I mentioned earlier, but doing a complete read through/pass through to focus specifically on things like character voice is something I want to adopt into my process.

Character voice is something that can be so easy to get wrong, that even though I'm confident in it, because I tend to slip into a character's headspace fairly easily, I don't think that doing a pass specifically focussed on it can ever really be a bad thing.

I have one character in Darkling who speaks in very short, clipped, sentences, and one of my notes for my self edits is to go through and check that none of his sentences extend past 15 words long, unless he's in a high-emotional state.

Things like that are, and should, require a pass all of their own, so you can focus in and pay attention to details.

7) Cuts

This is a tough one to address, because many people feel very, very strongly about cuts.

I also don't want to just gloss over it, because it's important for every writer to consider the impact their words are having on the narrative, and to learn how to differentiate between something that adds to the story you're trying to tell, and something that you just want to share with the reader.

For the latter option, I'd advise taking that stuff you just want to share because it's cool, and making bonus content, or a reader magnet for your newsletter, or whatever.

For me, personally, I'm a very wordy writer, but I'm wordy with a purpose. And what I mean by that is I can point to any single paragraph in my book and tell you at least 2 things it's doing.

Whether that's character development, character backstory, worldbuilding, foreshadowing, or actively moving the plot along, it's there for at least two reasons. I prefer to have 3 or more, but if a piece of writing only has one reason for being there I either remove it (Copy and paste it into a "Scraps" file), or I rewrite it so it's doing more heavy lifting.

This part is interesting because I don't have a specific section of my editing process dedicated to this. I kind of work on it as I go through everything else, and I mean that from the first draft through to the final editing passes before it goes off to my Editor.

If I spot a section that's not pulling it''s weight, I fix it, one way or the other.

On the other hand, I'm a wordy writer. I know this and accept this about myself, and it's also part of the reason I never contemplated traditional publishing. I wanted to be able to tell the story I wanted to tell, in the way I wanted to tell it... so as long as I can see the wrods are doing multiuple things, and aren't ONLY there for gratuitious info dumping, then I'm not too harsh with my cuts either.

8) Ctrl+F fixes (I'm switching this one from 9 to 8)

Oh bloody hell. Okay. This is an entire editing pass for me. I actually do this part per chapter. I have a list of my personal crutch words and phrases, and I check every chapter for them during my self edits.

For my biggest ones, I'll then do one more Ctrl+F at the end to see how many are LEFT across the entire document, just in case I need to thin them out even more.

9) Make It Pretty

I moved this one from 8 to 9 because it's the last stage I do before sending it to my editor. I tend to do this readthrough right before I need to send it off to my editor, maybe a week before, because by this point I've been going over every single chapter one chapter at a time.

It's probably been about 2 months since I read chapter 1 and did my self editing process on that chapter, so I just go right back to the beginning and reread through from the start.

I'm usually very happy with the manuscript at this stage, what I'm mostly looking for are places where I repeat myself, because if I find something I think needs rewriting in the editing stage, I'll hit enter and rewrite it on the next line. Sometimes I'll forget to remove the previous version of the paragraph from above it.

Apart form that, this pass is usually my fastest, and easiest.

10) Proofread

Before proofreading, it goes out to my editor, but, uh...

I don't proofread my own work. <3 I know I'm probably going to get yelled at for this one, but I don't!

By this point in the process I'm usually sick of rereading it lol, so my manuscript will come back from my editor for the line/copy edits. I'll work with her to make all the appropriate changes, and once we've finished and the file has been okay'd I move onto formatting.

Once the book's formatted, I'll then send it out to my mum and a couple of friends (who act as my informal proofreaders).

Once I've fixed anything THEY'VE caught, I send out my ARC's. Anything my ARC readers catch and message me about gets edited in my formatting program, the book files redownloaded, and the final, buyable files, then uploaded to all vendors

Again, I know this isn't the best way to do this, and one day I hope to earn enough money from my books to hire both a copy/line editor AND a proofreader, but in the meantime, I rely on my friends, family, and ARC team for those final, tweaks.

This is a purely financial decision, and if an author can afford a proofreader, I'd absolutely recommend one.

11) Send it to Someone; Make Subsequent Passes

I don't do this, because I don't have a critique partner I'd trust with my work. There's a couple of people I would trust to critique my work, but they'd all busy with their own projects.

If I was going to do this, I'd be sending it out for feeedback around stage 6 (vibe checks) before stage 7 (cuts) just because I'd like to see if they suggest cutting the same pieces I'd cut, or if their favourite parts are something I was going to cut, I might then consider leaving it in.

But all in all, I've been writing for twenty.... four? years? I wanna say twenty four. I tend towards trusting my own instincts at this point, and when they fail mum will always tell me if something's not working. Even if she can't articulate why, that usually gives me a good jumping off point to sort it out on my own.

It has recently occurred to me that to make a second draft after the first one I have to... rewrite the entire thing?? Not just, take the document and, edit ON IT, OVER it.

And that a first draft is not really supposed to be... readable?

Guys I need help,.how do you do drafts??

[ginmo]

How do you think the Bran and Jaime’s meeting will go in the books? I’ve read theories guessing he might end up as King Bran’s Hand, meta where the writers want him to become a mentor or father figure to the Starks in a full circle of his redemption arc, while others don’t want or think he should be involved with the Starks long-term either because of his and his family’s sins against the Starks or because they view his arc as reclamation rather than redemption or atonement. 1/2

This is what GRRM said about Bran and exploring time. 

“It's an obscenity to go into somebody's mind. So Bran may be responsible for Hodor's simplicity, due to going into his mind so powerfully that it rippled back through time. The explanation of Bran's powers, the whole questions of time and causality - can we affect the past? Is time a river you can only sail one way or an ocean that can be affected wherever you drop into it? These are issues I want to explore in the book, but it's harder to explain in a show.” - Fire Cannot Kill a Dragon

Hodor’s name reveal is neat and all, but Bran’s power to manipulate the past doesn't exist just so we can randomly learn Hodor’s pointless name origin. That would be ridiculous unless the scene was used to introduce that ability. Hodor’s name reveal is important to the narrative, and I believe its purpose is to set up a much bigger event/reveal involved around Bran interfering with the past, not just observing it. I’m pretty sure GRRM was hint-hinting to D&D about this, which is why he told them about the random ass Hodor scene that was already written, thinking it would be obvious what that means for the overall plot and letting them run with it but………………..

Because of this, I think it’s possible Bran brought himself to where he is. 

IF Bran isn’t involved in The Push, then he could have been involved with Jaime killing the Mad King. I kinda like the idea of Bran playing into Aerys’ madness, causing him to stock up on wildfire around the city, because then the wildfire would be an essential future plot element for a bigger purpose towards the end of the series and it would be a question of time, “a river you can only sail one way, or an ocean that can be affected wherever you drop it,” but for the entire series. (And, as someone with a passion in astrophysics, I’m a sucker for discussions around time. BUTTHAT’SJUSTME) 

Do I totally subscribe to this theory? Eh. I’m still not convinced Bran is King of All of Westeros for reasons, but I’m open-minded. I DO think Jaime is surviving the series, for reasonsssss, so I’m putting that disclaimer out there right now. I will never claim with absolute confidence that he is surviving though because, I mean, nobody fucking knows, and there’s an argument for death. I’m just going off of narrative clues that I perceive to be clues, and taking other character arcs into consideration. After literally drawing up a table because I’m weird, the column for Survive has more evidence and justification than the column for Dies, so that’s why I lean the way I lean. SO with that being said, I think it’s possible he has more of a political future.

IF this is what GRRM is writing, Jaime would still be responsible for pushing him, of course, but future Bran would want to be pushed. He'd be setting everything in motion to create the butterfly effect that makes it happen. 

Even if that isn’t what GRRM had intended with exploring time, it’s highly likely Bran’s character development is taking him down a path of apathy over it, meaning he wouldn’t be needing Jaime to do something for the purpose of redemption for him. 

Speaking of Redemption…

-deep breath-

I’m going to go off on this a bit because it IS relevant, I swear. 

“Limits of redemption” is probably the biggest wtf interpretation fandom has when it comes to what GRRM actually said. I’ll try not to go off on it too much here but -

Interviewer: Both Jaime and Cersei are clearly despicable in those moments. Later, though, we see a more humane side of Jaime when he rescues a woman, who had been an enemy, from rape. All of a sudden we don’t know what to feel about Jaime.

GRRM: One of the things I wanted to explore with Jaime, and with so many of the characters, is the whole issue of redemption. When can we be redeemed? Is redemption even possible? I don’t have an answer. But when do we forgive people? [...]  I want there to be a possibility of redemption for us, because we all do terrible things. We should be able to be forgiven. Because if there is no possibility of redemption, what’s the answer then?  [x]

I bolded “we” from the interviewer, because it gives context to GRRM’s answer with “we” being the readers, not the characters or Jaime himself. (I think there’s another interview where he says “limits of redemption” but it’s in the same context. I could be wrong but I SWEAR I heard it. Anyway…) 

“I kind of tried to ask, ‘do you think he’s changed?’ to get him to talk about Jaime’s redemption arc, so he said something like he wanted to explore the concept of forgiveness and whether it’s possible to be forgiven for doing such horrible things, and that his goal was to ask the question, not give an answer.” [x]

Fandom thinks this is the characters giving Jaime forgiveness, and maybe there will be a small element of that in the books, but the question is for the readers. No, Jaime is not actively seeking redemption from people. His redemption is for himself, through living his best life, by rediscovering the person he used to be. Yes He Will Be Redeemed and No He Will Fail assume redemption is some arbitrary checklist determined by One Big Act, and they’re answers to a question GRRM doesn’t want to give an answer to. 

The purpose of Jaime’s POVs is to ask the readers, and the most obvious moment of this was the bath scene. GRRM smacks us over the head with the Aerys confession, and then as we’re introduced to more and more of his POV chapters, he slowly chips away at the Jaime illusion that was intentionally established the moment he pushed one of the perceived child protagonists out of a window. It’s brilliant, and I’m sorry GRRM that a large chunk of your fandom is too dense to get it. How frustrating lol. I’ll be insulted for him. (I’m legit wondering if his recent angsty tweets about grey and redemption about real life stem from a concern that his fandom won’t understand the point of the series.) 

To give you an idea of where these people are coming from, at least one BNF idiot on Twitter believes redemption hasn’t been explored with Jaime yet. 

But uh… 

GRRM mentioned his intent is to “explore redemption” after delivering Jaime POVs, because... it’s... not a spoiler… he’s already exploring redemption, because the question is being asked TO US. We were supposed to have an “oh shit” moment, realizing this is more complex than the surface level, biased perspective we were delivered at the beginning of the story. “Maybe Westeros and my protagonist have it wrong.” -cough- the people in the village in BatB -cough- 

No matter how much fandom likes to pretend they love GRRM for pushing the boundaries of fantasy, they secretly fucking hate it. They love to be comfortable, dude. That’s why they read this series as if it’s a clear cut Good vs. Evil, because a) ego and b) that’s easy. If GRRM was writing Jaime as doing everything with ill intent then…. his… question isn’t being asked. They think everything he does right now is selfish and Bad, so they’re waiting. They want it spoon fed to them. They want classic fantasy. They want Starks = Good, Lannisters = Bad. 

But… if the author sees Jaime’s actions as grey and complex, enough to ask the question to the readers if he’s redeemed in their eyes or not, then he’s not going to write an endgame that punishes the character for narrative payoff, because he doesn’t see his actions as “sins” or “crimes” in the same way that these people are. Once upon a time, a person on tumblr reblogged one of my posts and said that Jaime will rape Cersei before he kills himself and that will be his endgame. But GRRM doesn’t view Jaime as a rapist, so he’s not going to write Jaime as a rapist. I’m bringing that up, because it’s the same phenomenon. People can ignore authorial intent all they want, but NOT when it comes to predicting narrative trajectory. The general fandom is terrible at that lol. 

The exploration of redemption for Jaime comes in the form of confronting his disillusioned self and everything attached to it. Before someone thinks, “lolllll he isn’t disillusioned” 

 “he actually was a very idealistic young man who was disillusioned by life” [x]

Jaime’s redemption is the path of returning to that idealistic man for himself. It’s by feeling ashamed of the things he’s done to hide his love for Cersei. It’s by gaining independence and detaching from the toxic relationship that caused a mess outside of them. It’s by wanting to be like the knights he admired in his youth, and like the woman warrior that inspired him. 

So when I think about narrative payoff for Jaime, I don’t see it framed as him being “punished” for actions viewed as “crimes,” when GRRM clearly established those “crimes” as complicated and grey with a character already going through some positive development, and especially when the characters judging are written to be flawed as well.

On the other side, having him be “punished” by succumbing to hatred and anger is for sure giving an answer (this just… -sits on hands- don’t even get me started on THIS fucking hot take). That answer would be a clear, solid, “No, no matter how hard he tries to turn his life around, he can’t be redeemed, because he’s a hateful, angry, fucked up person.” I’ve legit seen people think “limits of redemption” is a boundary of redemption drawn in the sand that Jaime is walking towards but he won’t be able to cross it. I-......................... 

And what’s even the point of his handchop if scenario number 2 happens?  

“And Jaime, losing a hand, losing the very thing he defined himself on is crucial to where I think I want to go with the character. And he questions what do you make of yourself if you’ve lost that.” - GRRM [x]

(I’m going to put this quote in every post sorry not sorry) 

So he’s going to take Jaime on this big identity journey just for him to be like “lol nah he isn’t that” …?? That makes the loss of his hand meaningless, not “crucial.” Is it really crucial for him to lose his hand if he’s bringing him back to the beginning? Is it really crucial for him to lose his hand to make himself realize he’s hateful and a failure and murder Cersei and then himself? No. He could have still met Brienne and been inspired by her knightly ways, attempted to live a better life, found out about Cersei’s affairs, etc. He doesn’t need to lose his hand to reach a point of fucking murder/suicide lmao fuck (not saying he’ll do that but I KNOW people are thinking it). 

The loss of his hand is “crucial,” because GRRM has bigger endgame plans for him in the form of politics, and the journey to believably get there requires the forced loss of his warrior identity and everything that the hand symbolized. 

AS FOR THE ACTUAL HAND THEORY...

Even though I’m undecided on it, I CAN see it IF Bran is King. I get it. Jaime’s missing his right Hand, he becomes the Hand to the kid he pushed out the window. Hardy har har. I understand how that would be pleasing.

And we all know GRRM said something about how the best ones for power are the ones who don’t want it…  

And… this suspicious scene at the very beginning of the series… 

“You should be the Hand.” 

“Gods forbid,” a man’s voice replied lazily. “It’s not an honor I’d want. There’s far too much work involved.” 

Bran hung, listening, suddenly afraid to go on. -AGOT

BUT IF that happens, it wouldn’t be there as some sort of #atonement #forredemption. It would be there because of Jaime’s growth as a character after developing into a political player, after asking himself, “what do you make of yourself if you’ve lost [the swordhand]?” He’s no longer the warrior he once was. He dislikes any sort of political position, because he feels most alive with a sword in his hand. But that was Warrior Jaime, and the point of “what do you make of yourself after you’ve lost that” is Jaime going down a different path after discovering that Warrior Jaime has died. I mean, he’d never be actively seeking power and thinking it’s the best career ever, like he’d probably be all -sighhhhhhh- about it, but he’d be doing the responsible thing and what’s necessary. He’d make himself useful in a new way. 

“The Warrior had been Jaime’s god since he was old enough to hold a sword. Other men might be fathers, sons, husbands, but never Jaime Lannister, whose sword was as golden as his hair. He was a warrior, and that was all he would ever be.” - AFFC (Do I really need to make a post about how GRRM foreshadows? Mr. Bran: “I never fall”...?)

Jaime losing his hand was the narrative consequence for The Push, making all of his development post handchop -ALL OF HIS POVS- the redemption theme. It was the hand that pushed Bran, fucked his twin, killed his king, swung the sword against fandom’s Precious Protagonists… 

“You ought to be pleased. I’ve lost the hand I killed the king with. The hand that flung the Stark boy from that tower. The hand I’d slide between my sister’s thighs to make her wet.” - AFFC

So if Jaime becomes his Hand, it would be the two characters meeting in the middle, not Jaime groveling at his feet, begging for forgiveness, framed as a punishment for sins - “sins” that fandom views as “sins” that need narrative payoff, because they don’t understand intent. 

[mallowstep]

Just saying on the whole: I decided on Brackenpelt and Mintfur's personalities, this blogs anon's (and a bit you, no offense) literally decided to kick canon Reedwhisker to the curb, he now looks like Oakheart, and he's a sweetheart and a bit of an idiot who tries his best to protectand tell on Hawkfrost? (I've not read past TNP, so idk if he's actually like this so if he is forgive me.)

oh my god i. i can't.

okay so i have this thing that. is kind of long and convoluted to explain and also i neither want nor have to but i have this thing about repeating work. i can't do it. like i physically cannot make myself do it. if something interrupts what i am doing, and i lose what i wrote for an ask, i cannot make myself rewrite it. the thought alone is enough to make me want to cry.

so. i was. god. i can't even -- even summarizing what i wrote is very difficult for me. so i'm just going to jump in to where i was writing, maybe back up a little, because i was having fun talking about character arcs, and -- y'all can just deal.

(n.b. when i bring this up, people tend to suggest things like drafting responses to asks in software with autosave, or just saving responses to asks as drafts periodically. the answer is always, "i know that's an option, and it doesn't work for me for any number of reasons." while i appreciate the care, i'd rather save us all the time.)

(but to respond as quickly as i can to your actual ask -- i change background characters all the time, and no one has ever commented on it. secondly, while i often enjoy what anons offer me from different ideas, i'd prefer if we don't -- treat them as mine, perhaps? hm. not sure how to phrase that well and i want to move on now.)

anyway, basically, i'm rambling about decisions anons make and why i wouldn't personally make them. because i was in the middle of a thought, i'm going to have to back up a little, but -- i'm going to try to save myself some time and pain and just make one starting statement and then move on.

while i'm about to explain why i wouldn't make the following choices, that does not make them bad choices. in fact, i often enjoy responding to your asks with snippets utilizing these choices. they're just not choices i would independently make, but that doesn't make them bad. i just like to ramble about character arcs, and this gives me an excuse

reedpaw interfering with hawkpaw's dreams of the dark forest

the arc i have planned for hawkfrost revolves around no one knowing about the dark forest. it is essential to tigerstar's manipulation of him that no one knows. it is fundamental to his character arc.

so -- i can't just throw in reedpaw interfering. it would change every character's arc. and i like my arc for hawkfrost. i do not think it is benefitted by reedpaw interacting with it.

(this is kind of what i mean -- i've greatly enjoyed writing the drama that comes of reedpaw interfering, but i would never choose to have him interfere in independent content.)

reedkit being born not long after hawkkit, mothkit, and frogkit

this is the piece i'm most angry to have lost. i had -- guys i had a very good explanation of this one. it's. i will do my best because -- i don't know.

i am very -- the misty au matters to me. unlike the other aus, the misty au is mine. it is not some web of ideas, it is my au, and while i adore seeing everyone play with it, it often feels like -- handing someone a rubiks cube, watching them fiddle with it, and then, when they give it back to you, you solve it in a few moments. (i did speed cubing personal best was 27s, although i doubt i could get anywhere close to that now.)

like, you hand me this idea. mistyfoot has another kit about six moons after hawkkit, mothkit, and frogkit. i nod as you explain, am excited to see you so excited about it, but i cannot simply leave the cube unsolved. it is a compulsion of a sort. you hand me an unsolved cube, and i will solve it. i don't mean to, sometimes. it is simply that i know the patterns so well, and the process of observing and solving a cube is so instinctual, that i look for the best cross without realizing what i am doing, start to solve without meaning to.

and -- in this case, this is me solving the cube, this explanation. i have inserted this metaphor in part to explain why i feel i must try to explain this once again, why i am -- now that the chance, the idea of covering this topic has been raised, i cannot set it down.

so. although it is difficult, i want to tell you why i wouldn't choose to do this. again. there will be less couching this time, as there always is, so review my -- i don't think you're wrong, i just wouldn't make these choices -- above. i mean it.

reedkit being born changes every character's arc inherently. i've mentioned this in passing, but it fundamentally changes every single character's arc. for the main seven, it is a direct and tangible change, and for others, it is a ripple effect, and no stone is left unturned.

but i will use mistyfoot's arc as a catch-all, to explain my reason for not making this choice.

mistyfoot -- okay, if reedkit is born, mistyfoot's primary focus is no longer feathertail. i'm not one for "one child is loved more" stories. i don't like writing them. so. mistyfoot's focus is split between reedkit and feathertail.

and that is a problem. because -- feathertail is the most important thing in the world to mistyfoot. in an unhealthy way at first, but in a healthy way, later on. it is Unhealthy for mistyfoot to base her every action around how it affects feathertail; it is healthy for mistyfoot's top priority to be feathertail. codependency vs being a parent.

so. why is that a problem? well -- because it changes a lot of things, but most importantly, or at least, most close to the main time period the misty au covers, it changes how mistyfoot builds a relationship with hawk, moth, and frog.

because -- well, let's back up for a moment.

mistyfoot does not go in the nursery once. despite the fact that it is feathertail, that before and after this, they are nearly inseparable (unhealthily before, heathily after), she does not visit feathertail in the nursery a single time.

[insert a tangent about mistyfoot being in the nursery with reedkit i cannot bring myself to rewrite]

her interactions with the kits, once they are weaned, are either highly structured, or incidental moments she avoids and escapes from as fast as she can.

but -- feathertail is always there as a buffer. feathertail brings them out to mistyfoot as her kits, as a form of -- presentation, almost. or, mistyfoot and feathertail are talking, and one of the kits approaches momentarily.

because she can't do it anyway.

[insert tangent about mistyfoot being a good mother and how in this instance, that means not being around them]

and as the kits grow up, it is through feathertail that mistyfoot manages to build a relationship with them. the fact that they are feathertail's kits is how she does it. in part because -- it is a degree of separation that she is afforded. if things are too much -- she is not their mother. she can back off. but also because -- they are important to feathertail, and that makes it easier for mistyfoot to want to know them.

this is -- core to all five arcs at hand, here.

she sees hawkpaw seek out feathertail after a nightmare, and she sees a kit, who loves, who feathertail loves. she sees -- it makes it easier to forget his father, if he can simply be a child, sleeping with his mother to ward of nightmares.

hawkfrost is -- will always be the one she has the hardest time connecting to. this has little to do with his appearance (while he looks similar to tigerstar, he is not a clone -- he has more contrasting markings, a white chest, blue eyes, a narrower build, sleeker, glossier fur, and so on), and everything to do with the grief he causes feathertail as an apprentice. she worries over him, and mistyfoot doesn't know what to do.

frogheart is easier, or at least more straightforward. he bonds with mistyfoot when he's carrying feathertail down the mountain. there's -- two levels. first, he's doing a great service to the most important person to mistyfoot. second, this is a very hard time for feathertail, and mistyfoot wants to be with her for it. so -- they walk down together.

mothwing is -- she starts to be more and more responsible for feathertail's healthcare. and -- mistyfoot is. pretty much always with feathertail for that. even something as simple as marigold on a scratch, or getting a thorn pulled out -- mistyfoot is there.

it is an Anxiety Inducing Time. feathertail associates being treated with very bad things, and avoids going to the medicine den, so like -- mistyfoot has to be there to actually get her to go.

so while mothwing is learning to deal with -- a bit of a role reversal, in that she has to take care of feathertail. as a doctor, yes, but feathertail -- requires a lot of patience, cajoling, and creativity. and you know, that's hard. it is hard to see the cat who raised you like that. that's a big theme for mothwing.

but it means she starts to build a relationship with mistyfoot.

so -- why does it matter?

well, putting aside a long list of reasons that mistyfoot having reedkit then is so angst inducing (she's grieving for her first litter, she's not in a place to voluntary have another child, she's still coping with the trauma of a forced pregnancy, etc), if her focus is split between reedkit and feathertail, the weight of all of this is decreased.

not -- by half, or anything. love is not some finite resource. but mistyfoot no longer avoids the nursery, and she has many more early interactions with the kits. when feathertail leaves, she has another kit that means she can't fall apart in the same way. and -- that means that frogpaw, hawkpaw, and mothpaw's initial impression of her never changes.

when feathertail vanishes, they start to gain a deeper understanding of mistyfoot, which enables them to be able to start connecting to her.

other stuff

i'm doing this thing where i try to go to bed before 3am, so unfortunately, not right now.

oh wait i lied real quick

tawnypelt

i think this is because you haven't seen her pov yet, but a lot of asks about her tend to misunderstand her internal thought process. or at least -- they don't characterize her the way i intend to.

[stevetonygames]

Spotlight Post: Canon Soulmate Bonds

Yooo, this is a blog takeover, Mizzy here, ready to champion one of my favourite fictional causes: canonical soulbonds in the Marvel universe.

We all love a good soulbond fic. Words on your body, names on your wrist, red string of fate...so many glorious versions, and all of them *completely awesome*. The problem sometimes with starting a soulbond fic, though, can be all the worldbuilding required to make it work. But what if I was to tell you that no worldbuilding was necessary? That you could technically write a soulbond fic without having to set it in an Alternate Universe? What if you could set your soulbond fic *directly in main canon?*

Marvel 616 delivers you a canonical soulbond mechanic… not once… but at least *twice*. There could be more. There’s a lot of comics to go through and I’m only smol. But here’s the two I know about and I’m here to introduce you to today. :)

The was a ripple of mild confusion around fandom when Kevin Feige announced that the Eternals were getting a title movie in the next phase of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Created by Jack Kirby in the 1970s, in a wild combination of mythological fascination and spite at DC comics for not letting him finish his New Gods saga, the Eternals were an offshoot of humanity, created by the Celestials for humanity’s protection; this reason for their existence would lead them into their ongoing conflict against the deadly Deviants. There have been a few Eternals runs (notably one run by Neil Gaiman, which did not serve to bring the Eternals the commercial success Marvel was searching for with the title, that nevertheless remains the most fun and accessible Eternals volume), but they’ve not yet really reached wide-reaching traction among even the most die-hard comic fans. The MCU might change that, and here’s hoping, because I love these nearly-immortal idiots, and I’m hoping not to be alone in that for much longer. :D

But even my Eternals-happy soul has to admit, Eternals canon for the most part is dense and can be convoluted, and the spellings—both of their character names and one of the main fun parts of their existence, the Mahd W’yry—are enough to give one a headache. The idea of the Eternals is that they’re long-lived and have interacted with human history over the years in various impactful ways. You might think at first glance that you’ve never heard of the Eternals Sersi, Ikaris, Makkari, but I think you wouldn’t find Circe, Icarus, or Mercury unfamiliar names.

The Mahd W’yry is a symptom of the Eternals being so long-living. In order to stop them going insane, the Eternals have to bond into something known as the Uni-Mind, which basically squishes all their consciousnesses together into one, where they can share memories and blend temporarily into one mind. Regularly bonding into the Uni-Mind allows them to stave off the Mahd W’yry. (Yep, that’s just a headache-inducing spelling of ‘mad worry’, we know.)

Anyway, did you need to know all this? Eh, maybe, a little bit of canned backstory is always handy for you to briefly glance over and promptly forget. Because along with some dense mythological adventures, some glorious angsting across beautiful landscapes, and that ability to turn into a big massive floating brain, the Eternals also gave us a beautiful gift:

The Gann Josin.

In Avengers #361, Ikaris comes down to Earth and decides that Sersi needs to be bonded to Dane Whitman, an Avenger who canonically didn’t have any powers, he was just a *really good guy*, destined for tragedy. Honestly. That’s his bio. Really good guy. Destined for tragedy. The character creation in the 90s was peak talent. Dane, sadly, was in love with another woman, but did this matter to Ikaris? No. Apparently the Eternals don’t know about the dangers of letting himbos like Ikaris have life-changing powers, like the ability to create the Uni-Mind. 

Because the power to control the Uni-Mind also gives an Eternal the power to form a Gann Josin bond. And that’s what Ikaris does in Avengers #361—he forces a Gann Josin bond on Eternal Sersi and tragic human Avenger Dane Whitman.

Gann Josin (sometimes Gan-Josin because what is spelling continuity in Marvel comics) is both the name of the bond, and the title given to an Eternal and their chosen life-mate. It has a bunch of cool side effects. Both Gann Josins get glowing full-red eyes. It’s a really intimate tiny form of the Uni-Mind (without the part where you become a big floating brain), and creates a small scale mental union. The Gann Josin bond makes the Eternal and their partner lifelong soulmates. As the bond progresses, it creates a telepathic/empathic bond that strengthens in time. According to the Eternal Sprite, humans are rarely chosen by Eternals for the Gann Josin.

Now, Dane Whitman does manage to break the Gann Josin several issues later. But… it’s not easy. It’s rare. When Dane manages it, it is called an “astounding act.” It’s pretty dang hard, in other words. There’s every chance your chosen Gann Josins won’t have the mental fortitude of Dane Whitman to break it. (Although, we’re talking about Steve and Tony, and are there any bigger stubborn idiots in the universe? Probably not.)

But Mizzy, I hear you saying. I don’t want to write about Ikaris, even if he is a party king and that sounds pretty nifty. I don’t know anything about the Eternals and I don’t want to go down that gnarly rabbit hole.

That’s totes fine, my friend. I am here to save you. Because in very recent canon, during Jason Aaron’s turn at the helm, the Eternals are all dead. Very dead. That whole Mahd W’yry thing got ‘em, it got ‘em good. But before Ikaris died, he granted his Uni-Mind power to someone we all know and love.

Yep. Tony Stark. Tony Stark currently has the power of the Uni-Mind.

Which means that Tony Stark can now Gann Josin people.

In Avengers #361, Ikaris performs the Gann Josin by basically just pointing his hands at Sersi and Dane and some light goes WHEEEEEEE!! in their direction, and bam, this rare and special bond is done. And Tony Stark can do that now. To anyone! Unfortunately Ikaris is dead and didn’t leave Tony with an instruction manual. But the point is, he *can*. You can make up all sorts of fun things with this canonical fact (or write your own version because lbr Canon Is Dead; Long Live Canon.)

There are so many possibilities. Does Tony deliberately learn how to use it so he can bond himself to Steve? Does Tony *need* to be able to hear Steve’s thoughts (to thwart some bad guys) and thus end up soulbonded forever to Steve in result? Is Tony’s power activating at random because he can’t control it, and he ends up soulbonding everyone around him? Does he just subconsciously bond himself to Steve without consciously meaning to? Do Tony or Steve want to try it for science?

Gosh, I love comics.

But WAIT. There’s MORE.

It’s not just 1990s comics going ham on the soulbond idea. No, we got some *this year*. Canonical soulbonding? TWICE? In one universe? Two different kinds??

And this time, it’s not in a D-list Marvel title. We’re up the ranks to the big leagues this time, folx, with a brief trek to the world of the Fantastic Four.

In Fantastic Four (Vol. 6) #15, we’re introduced to a Spyre citizen called Sky, a winged team member of the Unparalleled (more cosmic-powered superheroes), who work under The Overseer. (The Overseer, in a burst of beautiful retcon in the way Marvel comics keeps doing to us, is apparently the entity who is responsible for giving the F4 their powers. Huh. The more you know.)

On the planet Spyre, all children are brought before something called The Great Eye. This measures them against the radiation signature of everyone on the planet, divining who their perfect match is. 

Sky looked into The Great Eye, only to find out her match was Johnny Storm, who was 44 light-years away at the time. Long-distance relationships can be tough. Anyway, plot happens, the F4 get stuck on Spyre, get told they can’t leave, and Sky tells Johnny Storm that she is his soulmate. Oh, and she attached a soul binding onto him while he slept. Neat, huh, all the bodily autonomy people get in this universe before being force soulbond to people? So neat, much consent, wow.

Johnny feels a connection to Sky, which is supposed to let us know this lack of choice is a good thing I guess. The Overseer wants Sky to renounce Johnny and crush the F4 which obv doesn’t happen, so of course she leaves The Unparalleled and skips off to Earth to be with Johnny. 

Who knows how this relationship is gonna last. I mean, you can look at the rest of Johnny’s relationship history and have a good guess. Who knows. Anyway, Reed and Sue are each other's soulmate, and also share a “Soul Binding”, so there’s some canonical proof right there that maybe this system has some validity going for it.

The soulbond for this form takes the form of a golden bracelet worn on the upper arm, that Sky explains her people call a “Soul Binding”; it represents them as being soul-mates. This bracelet can only be removed by your soulmate. This soulbond doesn’t seem to come with any extra powers, it’s just to show that The Great Eye has measured their radiation signature and declared them a match that is supposed to mean they’re perfectly compatible in every way: spiritually, mentally, and physically.

I don’t know about you, but I have a pretty good feeling that Steve and Tony might just have matching radiation signatures… Or what if Steve and Tony have perfect matching signatures….with other people? (Someone else on Spyre believes Sky is *their* perfect match, after all!) What if Steve has feelings for Iron Man, but he’s a perfect match with Tony Stark? I feel faint already just thinking about it.

So here you go. Two canonical types of soulbonds for your fannish consideration. Feel free to ask me questions! You can find me on tumblr (@mizzy2k) or on discord (addy#0908).

[avianurges]

For the ask meme- yes. The whole fucking alphabet. Any fandom of your choice for any of them -kipp

LMAO THE WHOLE THING? THIS SHOULDNT BE ALLOWED-

A - Your current OTP(s)/OT3(s)/OTX(s)

Honestly besides the Constant love for Mell and Kai, Ash and Eiji from banana fish, and Reki and Langa and Joe and Cherry from sk8 right now. Also i like Lawlight from specifically the 2015 death note tv drama. OH. AND ALSO. SEKI AND SHIMIZU FROM OYASUMI PUNPUN I LOVE THEM

(Side note ngl Detective Roberts and His Ex-Wife are v nice together i like them)

B - A pairing you initially didn’t consider but someone changed your mind

Ellspen from Self Aware. LIKE LISTEN. I KNOW I WRITE THE THING. BUT I NEVER CONSIDERED THAT UNTIL READERS STARTED SHIPPING IT

C - A ship you have never liked and probably never will (be nice)

Uhhh idk I never thought about it. Ig i’m not really a fan of Aizawa/All Might? that’s the first ship to come to mind. oh and also Hawks/Endeavor. not my cup o tea, never will be

D - A pairing you wish you liked but just can’t (again: be nice)

Any ship with Tanaka from haikyuu that Isnt him and kiyoko. like art of him and enoshita or him and noya are Cute, but i just dont ship it

E - Have you added anything cracky/hilarious to your fandom, if so, what

Does writing “Regenerate, Fate” count

I also have Goose Yagami meme and the yelling cat meme but it’s death note

F - What’s the longest you’ve ever been in a fandom

BNHA fandom has been since... november 2017ish

G - Do you remember your first OTP, if so who was in it

.........................................................................Klance.

H - What is your favorite source text for fandom stuff (e.g., tv shows, movies, books, anime, Western animation, etc.)

(ngl i dunno what this Means so sorry if my answer doesn’t make sense but-) I really like anime and animation, but also i really like comics and manga, more so now that im Making a comic

I - Has tumblr caused you to stop liking any fandoms, if so, which and why

I don’t think tumblr’s ever stopped making me like a fandom, but just like. stop going in tumblr’s tag for it. for example 15ish year old me was NOT ready to see the things in the undertale tag that i did. oh god the horrors.

J - Name a fandom you didn’t care/think about until you saw it all over tumblr

i dont think tumblrs ever led me to starting a show/getting into a fandom, but pinterest has. most of my fandoms have been through seeing random things on pinterest ngl

K -Say something nice about someone in any of your fandoms

Vigilantedekus is The Best and I Love Them

L - Say something genuinely nice about a character who isn’t one of your faves (chars you’re neutral on are fair game, as are chars you dislike)

Matsuda from death note might’ve been played as the “Funny because he keeps fuckin up” kinda chara, but i do like that he was the one to shoot light and that he had that kind of outburst about light’s dad. BUT ALSO MATSUDA’S THEORY IN THE END OF THE MANGA? RIGHTS.

M - Say something genuinely nice about a ship that you don’t ship (or its shippers, or anything related to you)

i dont have anything specific in mind, but all fandoms have DOPE artists

N - Name three things you wish you saw more or in your main fandom (or a fandom of choice)

head empty no thoughts

O - Choose a song at random, which ship or character does it remind you of

Right now “The mind electric” reminds me of Jamie from SA, “Butterfly’s Repose” reminds me of Mell And Kai

P - Invent a random AU for any fandom (we always need more ideas)

uh uh uh uh Self Aware but without Aviancorp. That’s the only difference. The au is just what kind of ripple effect it would have on everyone and their lives

Q - A ship you’ve abandoned and why

nothing’s coming to mind

R - A pairing you ship that you don’t think anyone else ships

Sobs. Seki and Shimizu from Goodnight Punpun. I only say them for this because theres So Little People who know them

S - Show us an example of your personal headcanon (prompts optional but encouraged)

Athen (my oc, Choosing(02)) wants to see hatsune miku because he uses a voicebank to speak and “! she sounds like me!” 

T - Do you have any hard and fast headcanons that you will die defending, about anything at all (gender identity, sexual or romantic orientation, extended family, sexual preferences like top/bottom/switch, relationship with poetry, seriously anything)

I’m going to do these with my OCs instead. because while im the author, they’re headcanons because most of them i cant Really make canon: 

Athen has a mothman pajama set. He and adam have matching “Humanfucker”/”Robofucker” shirts

athen Has seriously wondered if adam would leave him for mothman

athen gets a pet roomba named Hal

Jamie would be a good parent

Sam (one of the dead kids from Subject 402/SA-) would’ve been a soccer player if she lived

Letho (the Other dead kid) would’ve been an art student

if jordan(Kai) had a Normal Life and WASNT a human experiment, he wouldnt be very accomplished in school despite being a genius, he’d be kinda a delinquent and getting in trouble a lot

If mell had a younger sibling, people would probably think HE’S the youngest one. they would not believe he were older if they were close in age

U - 5 favorite characters from 5 different fandoms

Mob from Mob psycho

L and Light are tied

Aizawa and Shinsou and Deku are top faves ig

ash and eiji from banana fish. love them. AND SHORTER> LOVE HIM

i like punpun as a character but if i had the chance i would prolly throw hands

V - 3 OTPs from 3 different fandoms

Mell and Kai - Self Aware

Shindeku OR tododeku - bnha

(Letho and (Redacted)) - Self Aware (but like. the au if letho Lived)

Ash and Eiji - Banana Fish

W - 5 favorite ships and 5 kinks you like best for said ships

I think we all know my fave ships from this post so far. no need to do this question lmao

X - top 5-10 characters who are yoUR PRECIOUS BABIES AND YOU WILL DIE DEFENDING THEM

MOB. WOULD KILL FOR HIM BUT I KNOW HE WOULD BE :( AT ME FOR IT

ngl there aren’t many Precious Babies. like I’d say Hinata is a precious baby but haikyuu ends when he’s like fuckin 30 so what counts as a precious baby hmmm

Y - What are your secondhand fandoms (fandoms you aren’t in personally but are tangentially familiar with because your friends/people on your dash are in them)

my dash gets so much TMA

Z - Just ramble about something fan-related, go go go (prompts optional but encouraged)

this post is long enough,,,

[snkpolls]

SnK 131 Chapter Poll Results

The chapter poll closed with  2,192 responses. This month’s poll results were brought to you by @momtaku​, /u/staraves, Crunchwrap, u/_Puppet_, Luna.  Thanks as always for your support.

  RATE THE CHAPTER 2,118 responses

This was a standout chapter for the fandom, garnering a positive rating from over 90% of respondents and an average score of 4.68 which makes it the highest rated chapter since 122 - and in the top 5 in the history of the poll! Many of you were eager to express your enjoyment of it, with this question getting the most responses it has since chapter 102 (over two years ago!). As we go deeper into the endgame, it’s good to know enthusiasm is going strong.

Yams is a damn genius. This is one chapter I have not been able to stop thinking about or rereading. It's just... its so fucked up and SO. WELL. DONE.

I really, really loved this chapter. My favourite so far probably.

This is the first time I cried after a chapter. It hit me so hard.

Almost made me quit the manga. We finally got a confession from Armin, but right in the middle of all that grief, I couldn't enjoy it. Poor Ramzi and Halill, and all other innocent people beyond and within the Walls.

This chapter has had a ripple effect on how I’m seeing the series now in retrospect. I’ve been re-reading the manga , & I’ve become very melancholic after the Rumbling , knowing  everything was leading to this.

This was a phenomenal chapter. Thank you Isayama for everything.

WHICH OF THE FOLLOWING WAS YOUR FAVORITE MOMENT?

2,137 responses

Finding a favorite moment in a tragic chapter isn’t easy but we managed. “Child Eren’s moment of happiness” tops the list with an impressive 30% of respondents. “Seeing the reality of the rumbling” (18.8%), “Eren’s tearful apology to Ramzi” (15.9%) and “Getting Eren’s thoughts on the Rumbling while in Marley” (13.8%) round out the top four.

Very cool to finally see the destruction caused by the rumbling and some more insight into Eren's character

I like that this chapter showed perspectives from both the initiator of the rumbling (Eren) and the victims of his choice. It makes you sympathize with Eren, but at the same time, terrifies you with the price humanity has to pay.

Definitely one of the most depressing, if not the most depressing chapter thus far. Isayama brilliantly handled the transition between Eren's despair and the result of Eren's despair (Rumbling). Beautiful artwork. Great cliffhanger. Definitely a 9/10.

Tragic, Terrifying, Heartbreaking also Awesome because atleast AruAni became somewhat cannon

beautiful art as usual

The freedom scene with kid eren is the most beautiful/horrifying scene of the manga.

I also loved the Annie and Armin talk, anyone who says it's shipping cringe is a child, this was a long time coming and it was executed beautifully. (I also love how Hitch was mentioned twice, she would be proud of Armin this chapter.)

Ramzi and Halil deaths were the saddest part of this chapter, and I don't know about Ymir, but I guess she's helping Eren.

The panel showing the wall titans faces, especially the one shown on the right with empty eye sockets, gave me the chills. Can't wait to see how things will go down between the gang and Eren.

  WHO WAS THIS CHAPTER’S MVP? 2,144 responses

This month giving us the most harrowing chapter in a while made it feel wrong to be looking for an MVP amidst all this despair, and almost half of you agree (47.5%). Just over a quarter of you believe the Eren focus earned him the spot (28.9%), with 9.4% choosing Armin and 9.1% selecting best bros Ramzi and Halil. A distant minority of you chose Annie and Birb, the former of which coming dead last. Poor Annie, you’ll be more popular than a bird one day.

the true mvp was the depression we got along the way

Eren needs a hug

Eren needs to be put down.

I really admire the way Isayama deeply makes you care for a character in a few panels, like he did for those two - relatively unknown - boys.

Annie is the best girl

birbs are the rreak mvp since chap 1

  EIGHT MONTHS AFTER FIRST APPEARING IN THE MEMORY SHARDS, WE GET FEZ-KUN’S STORY.  DID IT LIVE UP TO YOUR EXPECTATIONS? 2,121 responses

Only a month ago, the fandom had no idea what to make of the mysterious Fez-Kun. The plucky pickpocket had a simple but effective story, and knew more secrets than he could possibly have understood. A perfect half of respondents were pleasantly surprised with Fez kid’s part in the story. 41.2% were content as it was about what they expected. 6.2% wanted to see a more in-depth picture but alas, that chance has been crushed mercilessly along with Ramzi’s hopes and dreams (and… the rest of him). 2.5% just weren’t into anything that let Eren lean into some morally black territory. Don’t worry, there are still plenty of grey shades here. Very dark shades of grey.

I didn't expect Ramzy's story to be expanded on, but it's so brutal to see the man he's been talking to killing him, his brother, his family and his hopes.

I know Ramzi and Halil were plot devices, but damn their death hit hard.

I think Eren saving Ramzi is foreshadowing. He knew Ramzi was gonna die in rumbling, yet he saved him. Same will happen, after someone reaching him and reminding him who he is, Eren will stop this madness and die. Or I wanna be hopeful.

even if i'm satisfied with Ramzi's story, I wish there would have been more to it because it is a tiny bit dissapointing but it's more or less what I expected.

Ramzi and Halil didn’t deserve death

i think everybody who dies in this rumbling will get back alive same will happen to halil and ramzi they will come back alive

Ramzi and Halil's deaths were so horrible but so good to see, because this is what it means when you destroy the world. You don't get to pluck out the nice ones and enjoy killing the bad ones. It's the height of cruel selfishness. And no amount of apologies changes that.

Ramzi and Halil deserved so much better

  WHY WAS EREN DISAPPOINTED THAT HUMANITY EXISTED OUTSIDE THE WALLS? 2,117 responses

There’s been disagreement over exactly what Eren meant when he said he was disappointed that humanity existed outside the walls and our poll reflects that. Just over a third of the fandom (34.2%) take Eren’s words literally and believe that his disappointment was with any existence of humanity since it marred his pristine childhood vision. The second most popular option is that he was disappointed in the attitudes, selecting “he was disappointed to discover all of humanity was filled with violence and oppression” (29.5%). We deliberately left off an “All of the above” option but that didn’t stop more than 50 people from writing it in.

He is disappointed at the fact that he has to fight humans with homes, families, pasts and futures and not mindless titans.

It's also a clear contrast between the outside world Armin envisioned and the one Eren wanted. Armin genuinely wanted to know more about it, Eren wanted his worldwide natural park to walk on. When it was full of civilization, he wanted to get rid of it. Like any typical villain wanting to purify the Earth of all the worms infesting it.

When he discovered that humans are just as cruel within the walls as without, it put his entire journey into perspective. He could not be Eren the hero or Eren the explorer and ultimately meant that the sacrifices made by his comrades were negligible in comparison to the big, cruel world , at least in his own mind.

He thought of all the beautiful landscapes and stuff that Armin showed him. Too bad there's these stupid humans in the way. Makes sense to eliminate the entire human population ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Everyone's fight against titans was pointless and the people who caged them could enjoy the things that Eren will never experience. The world is not a uninhabited landscape open to explore it, the world didn't need them and their freedom wasn't a possibility to enjoy it like the others civilizations do.

The world was out there and yet they did NOTHING to help Eldia

yes, eren is disappointed because there are now more enemies. but more than that, he's disappointed that they're not the monsters he's imagined them to be. that he can't kill them without feeling guilt and remorse.

he would never be able to enjoy the freedom he wanted because the clock is ticking and he will have to keep on resisting the whole world till the end without ever having time to properly realize his dream

I think he's disappointed in the fact that he's feeling sorry for humanity outside the walls just like Reiner used to feel sorry about people inside the walls. When he discovered Reiner was a traitor, he especially hated that part of his behavior, and how he realizes they're not that different, and in any case he's worse because at least Reiner had his child soldier brainwashing as an excuse

His disappointment is as bad as it sounds, having to deal with humans outside the walls was too bothersome for him and when the option to wipe them out was available to him, he was more inclined to take it, instead of fight for another resolution.

Typical privileged White boy outraged by prejudice and hatred OUTSIDE the walls, as if that didn't exist in Paradis already.

Any hopeful expectation Eren had of the outside world were completely decimated. Not only did he discover that humanity hadn't perished, but they actively contributed to or blissfully ignored Paradis' hell. In addition, the outside world is exploiting one other for resources. Paradis’ synthetically concocted hell is just part of a game to the outside world (there’s some uncomfortable real-world allusions here and I think it’s important that it’s being explored). Eren thought he was the saviour of humanity only to discover everything's he's done was for naught, humanity's the problem in his eyes.

  WHAT DO YOU THINK OF EREN’S CONTRADICTORY NATURE? 2,106 responses

Deciding to crush the vast majority of the world and its citizens kind of takes a mental toll on people. Who knew? 48% of respondents think Eren’s emotional breakdown side by side with determination to reach freedom at any cost is simply him deciding the results will be worth his immense guilt. 23.2% think it’s a very human case of cognitive dissonance, and that Eren’s just trying to juggle his conflicting values. 19.2% believe his mental state is fraying at the seams reminiscent of the way Reiner’s did. 6.8% don’t buy that there’s any contradiction being shown here.

He was willing to throw away his humanity to become the monster that brings change

He's being a hypocrite. His guilt doesn't hold any value because it's entirely his choice. He's apologizing because there's no greater good, just his selfish dream.

He's never been okay, it's just that we're finally seeing him for who he is without the "protagonist illusion".

I don't think it's contradictory though. He's grieving sure, but he's also going along with his plan. Because he wants to be free.

He's not mentally stable and it shows

He's to some extent influenced by the Shingeki and/or its previous holders

He's trying to convince himself that humanity is evil sl he won't feel guilty about what he's doing

Hes a fully grown adult who knows better, no matter how bad he feels he doesnt deserve sympathy

The future cannot be changed and Eren is a slave to the attack titan's objective to push foreward

This chapter shows a lot of parallel between Eren and Reiner, he even said himself that he's worse than Reiner in the genocide that he's created. says himself that

What a fucking asshole

When Eren saw the future he knew the rumbling was inevitable so he is the one having to carry to burden of being ‘humanity’s enemy’ whether or not it was Eren to fulfill the rumbling it would’ve happened either way so he isn’t immediately a devil

Erens nature isn’t contradictory. He’s just now becoming self aware of the impact of his violent nature

He feels guilty about his actions and feels sorry for people who are going to be killed, but on the other hand - he is selfish and will do everything to reach his perfect reality.

Humans are an amalgamation of their actions. They sometimes arrive at destinations they did not fully intend. They may also realize too late that the path that they’ve set down is leading them in a direction they are not happy with, but eren is too far gone. He’s sane, understands he is objectively evil, but cannot turn back.

He totally snapped and turned into the psychopath that was sleeping inside of him for a long time. It was indeed very dangerous to entrust him with more power than he can handle.

Isayama did the same thing with Zeke. I think he likes the idea of the cool, mysterious guy, but it falls flat when the motivation doesn’t line up & the characters turn out to be crying & weak to fit the narrative once it’s revealed.

I don't know how to word this, but he is caged in his own vision to the point where any human decency and the ability to think is killed. Only a selfish, hateful and childish shell remained that is throwing a tantrum over his childbook fairytale not being true. It's not the same as Reiner, because Eren chose this. He wanted this, it is his fault. He had the power to stop this, but didn't. He can apologize as much as he wants, but he isn't feeling sorry at all.

He feels guilty, which is why he is having a mental breakdown like Reiner.

He’s having a mental breakdown but it's worse than Reiner's

painfully obvious this chapter was just Eren trying by all means to justify the Rumbling. Not because of some noble intention or cornering them into the inevitable, but just because he wanted to erase the world.

the eren reiner parallels man.. they never stop

  IN HIS FINAL MOMENTS, RAMZI SEES AN APPARITION OF YMIR. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN? 2,104 responses

Ymir has finally appeared since we last saw her in chapter 122, and her presence as well as motivations are seemingly shrouded in mystery. Over a third believe she is watching everything but not necessarily feeling good or bad about it (32.1%), and some of you think she may be questioning her decision (16.2%). A minority of you opted to choose that her appearance means she is enjoying seeing it unfold (9.6%), or that we are witnessing a phenomenon related to titan deaths that have occurred all this time (7.5%). The most popular choice, however, (34.6%) is simply expressing bewilderment at the Evangelion-esque shenanigans we’re seeing.

Ymir could be the one doing all the actions of destruction since Eren let her free.

i really think after ymir appeared again even tho eren freed her that she's regretting giving him the founder's power and will have a role is taking him down

the presence of Ymir intrigues me and I hope that in the next chapter we will have her point of view.

I think Ymir is the one who's been pulling the ropes for a long time. Whenever Eren thinks there might be another way (especially throught he disappearance of the Eldian race) he compulsively thinks that he just CAN'T accept that, like there's a force driving him towards seeking freedom.

I hope that Ymir appearance means that she is counting and seeing Eren victims so she can create them Again without Eldian hate

Ymir being outside, and Kid Eren appearing in the paths might have a connection. Ymir was a grownup when she was killed but inside the paths she was shown a kid. Same as Eren being shown in the paths. This might signifies Eren is not in control of the situation but Ymir is.

I have had theories for a while about Ymir possibly turning on Eren, whether this is to save the world to show she is better than Eren, or to bring Paradis to destruction as well to show she is just as bad.

WHAT IN THE EVA?

Loved the Evangelion reference. YAMS YOU MADLAD!

Ymir might be the true enemy

WHAT THE FUCK IS YMIR AYANAMI DOING THERE?  

  WHAT IS KID EREN DOING HERE? 2,099 responses

Child Eren appears in one of the most stunning panels of the chapter, but what does it mean?  Two options came out on top, with the idea that Eren is mentally regressing to a child (37.9%) edging out that it’s symbolism comparing child Eren to current Eren (36.1%).

I think we are going to see different Eren during the rumble, the past with Eren as a child, the future perhaps with a more mature or elderly Eren and the Eren of the present.

Adult Eren is incapacitated and Kid eren took his place through paths, will wake up for the "see you later, Eren"

Adult Eren unknowingly brought kid Eren’s consciousness to the present while he was sleeping under the tree. This is part of his “dream” that he had at the beginning of the story.

It is symbolises Erens mentality as a kid and how his flawed ideology doesn't hold up to the real world he faced outside of the walls. Also to cope.

Eren is the only character who cannot overcome the cycle of violence, so he will die.As you know, only without people can you become absolutely free, so he enjoys it when he realizes that nothing else binds him.

He has taken over paths from ymir, but since he is not bound by anything, he can do whatever the hell he wants, and is the reason he connected to armin while speaking to him.

It shows that Eren is not fully in control of the PATHS. For example in this scene, he remembers Armin because of his memory as a child talking about freedom with Armin then Armin suddenly appears although Eren himself didn't wish for something like that to happen thus it's just to show that PATHS connecting all Subjects of Ymir even in different timeline.

This links in with Floch... Eren loves Floch.

He was dreaming about the past and accidentally used the power of the Founder to show his younger self a vision of the Attack Titan's current point of view.

He's a sociopathic freak

It is symbolic of his old dream that he will have to give up on soon.

Can I say all of the above again? I saw it as a representation of Eren in his most pure, idealistic state which is then contrasted by the realistic horror of the destruction he is causing.

Brought into the present by adult Eren to give his younger self a taste of freedom without all the guilt. This is the beginning of the long dream kid Eren awakes from in Chapter 1.

Child Eren's Evangelion/Devilman(Crybaby)-esque "elation" seems like a metaphorical emotional release (and P A T H S shenanigans).

Something about the kid-Eren “freedom” scene is just so incredible and impactful; fully restored my faith that Isayama will deliver an amazing finale for this masterpiece.

THE MORE I LOOK AT THIS PANEL THE MORE MY HEART HURTS. ITS SO BEAUTIFUL YET SO DAMN FUCKED UP. GOD. FRICK. FRIIIICKKKKKK

  KID EREN FINALLY WITNESSES “THAT SIGHT”, BUT WHAT DID HE ACTUALLY SEE? 2,113 responses

The world-shattering reveal almost a year ago of Eren gaining an important glimpse into the future, characterised as “that sight”, was finally answered in this chapter -- or was it? The majority of you believe kid Eren was merely enjoying the view from above that filled him with freedom, blissfully ignorant to the carnage of the rumbling (50.8%). Close to a quarter (23.8%) think he was able to see the rumbling but was enjoying the freedom in spite of it, with a small portion (5%) believing all the death was a part of his glee. Some aren’t yet sold on the idea that this is “that sight”, perhaps believing we will see it later (20.4%).

I don't think that his inner child is aware of the rumbling. He is only focused on the scenery and wants Armin to see that too.

A world without any walls is what kid eren always wanted to see. Through paths, kid eren achieved this (without seeing the death)

  HOW WILL ARMIN BEING ABLE TO SEE KID EREN THROUGH PATHS AFFECT THE PLOT? 2,114 responses

Child Eren showing up was confusing enough, but he had to see Armin through paths too!?  What does it mean!?  A majority, at 55.5% think it foreshadows Armin’s coming importance in whatever the endgame turns out to be. Almost a third, at 28.6% think that it also opens up the possibility for other characters to connect with Eren through paths.

Armin was the person Eren has been sharing his dreams with. He is mentally showing his friend that the realisation of their dreams is finally at hand.

Eren can call forth anyone he wants, but if he doesn't want to see them I'm not sure if they could get to him

It foreshadows Armin and Eren clashing on a deeper level. I don't think anyone can actually stop Eren at this point.

Eren is so suped up with in this final form and with Ymir's "support" that when he thought about Armin it created a link through the paths.

Armin gets to briefly see the old "idealistic" Eren again. The one he can somewhat see eye-to-eye with and incidentally "created".

I think it might be just a visual metaphor on how Armin and Eren never really understood each other while sharing the same dream and that Armin is realizing that (I mean that the dream of "seeing the outside world" didn't mean the same thing to them). Or it might be that Eren is in a comatose sort of state and that since he technically is in control of paths, his thoughts are "sent" to Armin since he's reflecting on their shared dream

It shows Eren and Armin both want the same end goal. Though they disagree on the means of getting to it

The world is not like the one he saw in Armin's book. Hence why he contacted him, this is his way of reaching for his vision of freedom that he was denied because of the trauma of the wall.

Reference to the ocean scene where Eren was depressed and Armin excited, now its reversed

  WHAT DO YOU THINK OF ARMIN AND ANNIE’S TALK ON THE SHIP? 2,124 responses

While this tiny moment of apparent romance was a delight for the 20% of the fandom who expressed “Whoo hoo Aruani is canon!!”, the remaining 80% were slightly more subdued in their reaction. The largest percentage (35.3%) was happy that the build up between their characters had some payoff. The second most popular selection had nothing to do with Armin or Annie at all with “I just wanna know what’s up with the birds” garnering 26% of the vote. Lastly, 11.2% felt like this moment was completely out of place, selecting “Now’s not the time for love drama Isayama.”

We better see Armin and Annie kiss next chapter

The Armin/Annie was not that necessary, I’d loved way more a more "group" discussion with Mikasa, Jean n Reiner in it. Old 104th days style

Besides the shipping moment, Annie just came to terms with that she’s still not alone, which is huge for her character

I'm not sure if Isayama knows how unnatural aruani is. These two had a grand total of 3 interactions, and sparing each other still isn't prone to romantic feelings blooming on either side.

a bad fking attempt by isayama at romance, should have stuck with eren historia love child

The aruani was unexpected but nice xD I don't exactly ship them but they are cute in this chapter(I can't help but feel one of them is getting a death flag because of this though💀)

What about them talking about all the shit she did or has been through? I wanted to see that.

SHE'S NOT TAKING MY MAN ISTG SHE'S NOT ON MY WATCH

Ship and let ship, this is actually a very intresting pairing and I think the scene flowed very naturally. But I still hope that in the future manga focuses more in the plot and not in the ships. I'd hope the same from fandom, but of course that's too much to ask...

This was a nice moment away from death and destruction

They’re definitely gonna die soon

am i the only one who don’t ship annie and armin? like bro... she squashed your little friends like bugs

Yoo bitch AruAni is canon LETSS FUCKING GOOO Love this cinnamon couple..More canon couple please Yams!

CANT BELIEVE ARMIN IS TRYING TO GET A GF WHEN MILLIONS R DYING HES FR A HOE🤦🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️

I only saw Bertolt there.

Maybe it's just me but i dont see anything romantic about the scene to me i prefer the weird friendship they have

While it seemed slightly out of place I’m glad Isayama touched on their “therapy sessions”.

Oh God no please don’t do this, Annie isn’t they type of character that needs any sort of romance in her story to be happy

Both aruani is canon 🥳 and wtf Isayama not the time…

c'mon falling for an enemy uncounscious girl with whom you have wangsty once-sided talks, a girl you manipulated to capture and used as a bait against enemies, really ???

They’re finally talking, I’ve been waiting so long for them to talk things out, also I really like Annie’s character development! And finally CANON, I’ve been waiting for sooooo long!!!!!!

I selected the bird because I feel threatened by it but also WOO HOO ARUANI IS CANON

I really enjoyed the scene between Annie and Armin. I think it further cements AOT as a very human narrative. They both know there are bigger things going on, but that doesn't allow them to turn off their very human emotions, which come out in a moment of rest. I don't believe this will necessarily lead to more romantic scenes between them, unless the ending of the story is far more hopeful than I expect it to be.

  WHY DO YOU THINK EREN APPEARS TO BE IN A SLEEP-LIKE STATE? 2,088 responses

Not long after his grand arrival on the shore, Eren seems to be having a little nap. 45.3% of respondents think he’s relying on his base instincts for his walk around the world. 15.8% think he’s wide awake but just trying to ignore the squishy things he’s stepping on. Turns out it’s actually pretty tiring to declare war on the world, or so say 14.2% of you. 12.1% think it’s no coincidence his apparently sleepy face was shown right after the intense stare of birb, and 8.8% think that the image hints at a secret puppet master pulling Eren’s strings. We received a lot of comments suggesting Ymir might be the big bad after all - now how is Eren gonna earn that sweet sweet freedom if he’s not willing to bust a few billion skulls, eh?

He left the Attack Titan on auto-mode

i just wish to know that....now that Eren has a long ass neck.....will he come back as a human or....he will be like this forever

Symbolic of the fact that he isn’t really seeing the sight. It’s a fools errand like Eren’s goal.

I think it is symbolic. The 'adult' in him is sleeping while the 'child' in him is taking the reigns.

His consciousness has been transferred to his titan's brain. He's essentially an Attack Titan battery .

He is dreaming, ignorant to the destruction below and seeing the freedom he envisioned as a kid.

his consciousness is in PATHS dimension and he's controlling things from there

How the fuck is he sleeping when the wall titans are executing complex commands, like diving under ships and surrounding the city?

I don't think he is sleeping. He rather looks beaten and devastated and just numb to what he is doing in order to cope.

I figure that bc he's so big, he kind of has to be like this. Normally when he's in his titan with his eyes open, he's being active. I think that although he's set the titans in motion, he's in a more passive role now. He also can't be all that active when he's that huge, right?

I honestly don't know. I can speculate its connection to Ymir's apparition and child Eren's lucid dream?

He's irrevocably fucked thanks to good old Gabi and her rifle.

He's losing his will to live.  Also leaves an opening for Armin to wake him up like he did in Trost.

HE'S THE SLAVE NOW

Maybe he is actively controlling / managing something else at the time? Maybe something crucial we don't know about yet, I don't believe that he is just exhausted.

His adult self is asleep now because his child self is having fun in his perfect world. Eren is mentally weak as adult but his inner child is strong and is reaching everything Eren always wanted - freedom and happiness.

He’s unable to regenerate due to controlling all the colossal titans, or just won’t because he wasn’t in Titan form when his head was blown off, meaning he will eventually die

i feel as if having eren not be in control would be mildly disappointing because the manga has done so much to set up erens decent into madness and how his actions became so extreme, i would be disappointed if all of that went to waste.

I would guess that Eren might be sifting through future memories at the moment. Looking at the "unknown world"/"the scenery" that made him smile wistfully instead of being horrified/the thing "beyond hell" Eren mentioned to Falco.  

His adult self is sleeping now, while his young self is having fun.

I think hes not fully in control (maybe ymir calling the shots)

I'm kinda torn between him operating on base instincts and him being controlled by someone (Ymir?) so I'm gonna go with both as the possibility.

Maybe he really doesn't want this? I think Ymir's the one in control

Ymir is controlling him

He is not the one driving this titan, Ymir is.

Really? You talk about his eyes being closed and not the fact that he has the neck structure of a turkey!?

  THE FINAL PAGE ENDS ON ARMIN’S HOPEFUL WISH FOR THE EXISTENCE OF THE OUTSIDE WORLD HE ENVISIONED AS A CHILD, BUT WHAT DO YOU THINK? 2,101 responses

Despite the darkness this chapter brought to the story, Armin ends on a hopeful note. The top two options were 36.8% thinking there’s a possibility Armin will in fact be able to stop Eren. and 33.7% believe Armin to be too optimistic, and that it won’t pan out the way he wishes.

Armin's recalling of his childhood dream with Eren in the last page made me think there's still a hidden solution to resolve the dilemma.  

This chapter also shown Armin not wanting to give up with reconciling the Eren he wanted to see and the actual Eren. He hears no evil.

Tragic ending, yes, but I don't think Armin's hope is misplaced all the same. I think Eren cannot be stopped without death, but I also don't think the entire world will be destroyed, and I don't think it will end hopelessly.

Either Armin’s gonna save humanity or everybody just dies the end 😹

That one bird that was perched on the ship might be the symbol of peace. But I'm not sure how that peace is going to be achieved if the option's still on the table.

I hope the alliance is able to save Eren from doing this unthinkable sin.

Probably a blossoming hope through Armin breaking Eren from Ymir's plan uwu

I think Armin could join/support Eren

  THIS CHAPTER CONTINUED THE BIRD MOTIF, THIS TIME HAVING A FOCUS ON SCENES ENDING WITH A BIRD STARING DIRECTLY AT A CHARACTER. WHAT DOES IT ALL MEAN?! 2,067 responses

The Spy Birds theory seemed a bit nutty last month, but I don’t trust that seagull one bit. And it looks like many of you agree because that nutty theory has gone mainstream! The majority of respondents (54.1%) think that the birds are under the influence of a higher power, mainly that of Eren (27.4%) or Ymir (26.7%). 26.6% don’t think the birds are suspicious, they’re just free, man. 13% just reckon Isayama has moved on from his love of drawing thicc horses, and birds are the cool new animal. No complaints here. But I still don’t trust that seagull.

The birds are up to something

Animals sense danger coming from nature before humans do.

bird is symbol for freedom, but some bird like crow and raven in some culture are symbol for death.

I think that pigeons are watching me through P A T H S

Black birds symbolize the people's doom , white bird that flew to armin symbolises hope

black birds: death ; seagul: garbage :))) I dunno, the seagul was so random. It means they are approaching the shore?

EREN IS BRAN STARK IN AOT UNIVERSE LET'S GOO

I dont sure its eren or ymir. But i hope there is something about bird. I hope there are a huge plot twist

Might be another Odin parallel if Eren is using them, but I don't really see why he'd bother. I don't think he needs to do recon.

FREEEEEEEDOOOOOM

Last time I thought that the bird theory was a little far-fetched but now I think that's 100% the deal. That seagul is just somehow way too focused on to be just a random animal.

I commented in the previous poll that the birds are surveillance cameras and i’m even more convinced now. And isn’t it poetic that the Wings of Freedom logo is made up of a pair of black and white wings, representing the different interpretations of freedom pursued by Eren and Armin.

This is all just a Genjutsu by Itachi

my personal favorite theory, it’s zeke seeing everything transpire through the power of the beast titan

Pure!Boy Armin gets the seagull because he still has DREAMS and Eren gets crows because he wants to feast on human flesh.

WHAT'S UPP WITH THE BIRDS AAAAAAHHH TELL ME

I don't know but is really cool if you see it as a symbol of hope/freedom. Birds are the only kind who will not going to be tumble over the rumbling.

I think it's about the colors, black is dark, just like the destruction Eren is causing to the world (including Ramzi and Halil) and white is bright, just like the peace that Armin wished for and is aiming to achieve with the alliance

  HOW DID THIS CHAPTER AFFECT YOUR VIEWS ON THE RUMBLING? 2,100 responses

If we thought seeing the reality of the rumbling would be a game changer when it comes to our view of it, we were wrong. Only 5% of people who formerly supported it no longer do. For the rest of us 44% do not support the rumbling and 30% do. Most curiously, 21% claim to have no opinion. More on that below when we mirrored this question about our views on Eren.

I still don't support The Rumbling, I just want it to stop. It doesn't do anything good for anyone, even Eren himself, and this awfully awesome chapter proves it. I totally expect that via P A T H S.FM Armin and Mikasa could stop him (and save him, physical or psychologically, idk) . It's the only plausible way.

I think the rumbling is justified but I don’t think the civilians who had nothing against Erin don’t deserve to die.

I don’t think there is any other solution, and that’s the point… His outburst at Hange tells me that he was desperate for something. This is coming from Eren who can essentially see everything and inherited multiple people’s memories. If he couldn’t come up with it, I don’t think anyone else can (aside from Armin? But I’m not holding my breath). The 50-year plan was a delusional fantasy at best, technology would evolve rapidly and nullify any threat the Rumbling poses.

I was still kind of hoping Eren had something up his sleeve that wasn't mass slaughter, but I guess we're going there

I believe the full rumbling is a morally grey decision, but I’ll concede and say it’s on the darker end of the spectrum. ultimately eren will have to answer for what he’s done, necessary or not killing millions of innocent people is a horrible thing to do.

The world was never peaceful, and never will be. The Rumbling was inevitable, nothing could stop that.

  ON A SCALE FROM “IT’S JUST A FLESH WOUND” TO “HOLY SHIT THIS IS AWFUL”, HOW DID YOU FEEL ABOUT THE PORTRAYAL OF THE RUMBLING?   2,110 responses

This probably didn’t need to be asked but we did it anyway. For the vast majority of us, the portrayal of the rumbling was overwhelming in terms of sheer horror. “It’s awful! I love it!” seems to be a common reaction.

Whelp... we wanted to see the rumbling. I guess be careful what we wish for.

I am once again reminded how gory SnK can be.

No holds barred. This is the sad, traumatic truth that we asked for.

RIP in pieces Clown-kun

At this point, it makes me sick to read pro-rumbling posts. Normally, when you like a villain or a morally grey character (Eren went past this point long ago) you enjoy seeing how their mentality works. And this is fully respectable, but not the "uuuh my baby did nothing wrong". If we did the same with our kings Floch and Zeke, it would be crazy, wouldn't it?

I’m glad the Rumbiling was shown in its full glory. It didn’t hide anything about the situation and was very gory. I’m glad we were shown what happened to the people during it, and not just after.

I can't feel engaged in the rumbling when it has been the default scenario since the sea, but more specifically 123. The boy had a death flag the size of Marley and now he's dead. Thanks for the shock, Yams. I'm interested in the potential of everything else. I hope I didn't follow this story for the final conflict to be whether to save more people or less people

It was great to see the Rumbling in its full gore. Isayama showed it masterfully and rly put emphasis on how terrifying and disturbing it is. I was never anti or pro of it before, bc I'm just enjoying the view as the reader, that didn't change, and I still like Eren bc he is a very entertaining character.

I loved seeing how awful everything was. Ofc in real life I wouldn't support it, but narratively? Wow!

  WHICH OF THE FOLLOWING BEST DESCRIBE YOUR FEELINGS ABOUT THE RUMBLING? (MULTISELECT) 2,109 responses

This chapter didn’t hold back in its brutal display of the rumbling, and it may be difficult to find the words to describe it, so we gave you twelve. A clear majority are able to agree on it being both tragic and terrifying, closely followed by those who would describe it as unavoidable, distressing or immoral. The choices in the minority included describing the rumbling as awesome, justified or heroic. Fun fact, over a third of the people who chose “heroic” also described it as some combination of “excessive”, “immoral” and “indefensible”. Talk about mixed feelings.

  HOW DID THIS CHAPTER AFFECT YOUR VIEWS ON EREN? 2,093 responses

If we thought seeing the horrors of the rumbling would be a game changer when it comes to our view of the person who unleashed it, we were wrong. This chapter did nothing to change the minds of the 40% who support Eren and the 30% who do not. Only a minority (8.3%) said this chapter made their support for Eren wane.

We were most curious about the 20% who selected “I have no opinion.” When we’ve waited so eagerly for Eren’s POV, how could a quarter of the fandom be neutral on how it affected them? Was this a failure on Isayama’s part or were our poll options poorly worded? We decided that rather than having no opinion,  “I don’t know what to think yet” might have been the better cop out...err I mean *neutral* option :P

I was one of those that was convinced that there had to be something more to the Rumbling, and this chapter shocked me to my core by revealing that there really isn't. Eren is just that disturbed. We wanted Eren POV but we weren't ready for it. Now I just want to see how Armin and Mikasa end this.

i love eren so much nothing can make me hate him but he is insane... all this and for what. THEY COULDNT HAVE TALKED IT OUT??? i feel so bad for eren he clearly does not want to kill all those people man...

We finally have Eren's pov now; I still don't know how to feel about it, but I'll always support him.

Eren is a character who really disgusts me because of his fucked up delusion of fReEdoM but I love him at the same time because he's really well written, this boy is a fascinating mess.

This chapter seems to have made things pretty straightforward. Eren is a lot of things but he’s not one to go back on his word. He said he was gonna rumble and now he’s doing it.  Not sure why people are having a hard issue saying he wouldn’t have done it. Uhhhh hello he’s nuts

i get eren's side but i just wish that there was another way to bring freedom and justice without genocide

I support eren as a character, however if his actions were translated to real life I would disagree with them. At the end of the day, genocide is not ok. He could’ve wiped out military bases, but civilian deaths is not ok. HOWEVER, for the sake of fiction, & the fact that there’s no decent alternative, it’s team Yeager.

Deep down his choice is selfish and this is why he is ashamed of it, the rest are just justifications. And he is not the only character who has selfish objectives hidden over good intentions, Erwin fought for humanity, but deep down he wanted to prove his father right, and Reiner on his quest to "Save Humanity" was just a mask to become a hero.

Really I want to see Eren fufill his dream, I’m still supporting him.

Ymir might have a role to play in his mental state.

Not to support the rumbling or anything, but I do feel sorry for Eren. He's like a cornered animal that attacked in panic and that attack's freaking deadly.

Even though the rumbling is tragic, this is Eren truly getting his way, no matter what. It's a rare thing to see in any literary work, and although I'm curious as to what the downfall/tragedy of his character will end up being after this, I love it all because for what feels like the first time, a character with bad intent is using the god power to accomplish their goal, and I can't get enough of it.

  WHAT BEST DESCRIBES YOUR THOUGHTS ABOUT EREN THIS CHAPTER 2,111 responses

Empathy for Eren is the theme for nearly 70% of the fandom with “I feel for him. He’s in a tough position” (43.7%) and “my heart aches for him” (22.1%) being the top two selections. On the opposite and more extreme ends of the spectrum, those who think he’s the greatest (15.1%) and those who think he’s the worst (14.9%) are nearly evenly matched. Interestingly only 4.2% expressed “I have no opinion” on this question compared to more than 20% on the question above.

Eren is my favorite character but I also don't support his actions.

I was disstressed for a few days after it.  How did it go to this? I kept reading this far just because I wanted Eren to be happy and have his happy ending, and what do we have now?..

I feel bad for eren, he's in a position no one would want to be, and he hates what hes doing no matter how much he needs to

This chapter could possibly stablish once and for all Eren as a unchangable character since he has reached a point of no return.

Eren is GOAT, the rumbling is wrong but I still love eren

This entire chapter just reaffirms the fact that Eren has always been a self absorbed, self-pitying child from the very beginning

I don't get how people can still support Eren just because he cried a little.

To think that all the shit that has happened since RTS (Sasha killed, Liberio attacked, Tybur murdered, Zackley assassinated, Nile and Pixis titanised, Levi forced to decimate his own titanised squad and then nearly dying, Jaegerist coup, Shadis beat up, Historia pregnant AND ANYTHING ELSE I'VE FORGOTTEN) is all because of some long, convoluted plan for one single boy's childish, problematically simplistic, black-and-white dream for "Freedom" is. I can't. I'm tired. Eren's pov is so outrageously outlandish that I can't relate. At all.

I cant feel bad for Eren, he is the only person responsible on his guilt and sadness. Also genocide is the worst option and even Eren says it.

He was sheltered his whole life; he has no proper context or framework for concepts like racism and war between humans. He “optimistically” thought his fight was that of human vs titan. That's why I don't blame him for coming to the Rumbling conclusion after the basement reveal. I give him a lot of credit for empathizing with "the other side" and I do believe Eren tried his best to come up with alternative solutions.

I feel for Eren, he was sold the idea of a perfect, peaceful, untouched world, ripe for discovery, filled with the beauty and awe of nature, but in reality it was full of cruel xenophobia people who hated his very existance. I don't support the rumbling but i understand why Eren did it.

Eren is obsessed with his perfect vision of "Freedom" where there are no limits to his will, but sadly for him, he lives on a reality where others exist and as long he has to interact with them, there are going to be limitations he is going to be bound. So even if he kills everyone outside the island, there is going to be another "wall" he needs to overcome.  

Seeing Eren cry and hear his doubts actually made me just more angry with him: "If you are so sad about the fate of the outside world then fucking change the future, don't just give up!!!!!!!" He seems to be very clung in the idea that the future is set and there is nothing he can do to change it.

Okay but look at Eren's centipedal Hell's creation's TINY BUTT. It's so funny seeing that little boney ass on this gigantic thing

  EREN SEEMS TO HAVE MANY MOTIVATIONS. HOW WOULD YOU RANK THEM?

This one was interesting. With this chapter’s iconic imagery of kid Eren spreading his arms declaring “this is freedom”, it’s unsurprising that most of us agree with that as a very important motivation for him. His friends were also chosen as a very important motivation, though not as much as his love for freedom. Historia and her child just edged out the motivation of the people of Paradis, though interestingly it has less “somewhat important” votes and more “not important at all votes”, making it clearly divisive even if it has more “very important” votes.. But the motivation with an even more divisive perception is revenge, with nearly an even split between those who view it as very, somewhat and not important at all.  

Everything Eren is doing is for the sake of his friends and Historia, there was no other choice to protect the island.

I think that the only thing what matters to Eren is freedom and reaching the perfect world he saw in his dreams after reading Armin's book. The dream of his inner child is playing the most important role in his life. Eren is ready to sacrifice his friends, his mentors and people on Paradis - just to see the special scenery and finally feel FREE.

Feel sad to see eren need to do all of this, but i know its for his friend and paradis

I hope that Eren doesn’t harm the alliance

  REGARDLESS OF WHETHER YOU FEEL POSITIVELY OR NEGATIVELY ABOUT EREN, DO YOU THINK HE IS BEING PORTRAYED AS A VILLAIN AT THIS POINT IN THE STORY? 2,098 responses

It’s truly a testament to Isayama’s strength as a writer when a character’s deliberate annihilation of billions is met with a majority response of “there are no villains or heroes here.” 57.1% think that as tragic as the situation now may be, nobody in this manga really qualifies as villainous. Or at least, not when our feisty protagonist is involved. 33.7% think the manga is a tale of a hopeful boy slowly turning to the dark side. 5.6% see this all as part of a hero’s tumultuous journey. Finally, 3.5% think it’s unfair to cast Eren as a villain since he’s not the one in control. Gotta say, if Eren is not the one destroying the world he really shouldn’t have said he was going to destroy the world.

This chapter just proves that Eren ISN'T a complete villain. I disagree with the rumbling, but what Eren's going through is something that I empathize with.This chapter just made it easier for me to keep rooting for everyone, even though a completely happy ending is not an option anymore.

I really hope Eren's in for a change of heart soon. I hate the idea of him being the final villain. He's definitely redeemable. Even he is eligible to have a dark foil and rival. Maybe we'll get that later on in Zeke who I feel is also redeemable.

More and more of the story is unveiled, I really like how this is going. Ever since knowing the outside world I have decided that Eren is no longer a hero but then he is not a villain either so does everyone in the story. I like Eren a lot but I'd say that I just like to observe, to see, never to support or to oppose. So this chapter is really amazing to me as I managed to see more about Eren.

eren is a villian whether you like it or not

I feel Walter white Vibe from Eren.

Eren is evil period!!!! There is no justification for mass murder. If he wants to savr his ppl then just wipe out the army, navy, air force, warriors and the leaders period not everyone including INNOCENT ppl....

EREN IS GOAT. He is portrayed as a hero who makes tough choices that no other shitty shonen character even can do.

Eren needs to stop the rumbling. It maybe justified his needs but the people outside the walls didn't deserved it. They're both each other's enemies. He used to say people outside the walls are monsters but he became one himself. He desired freedom but in the end he was a slave to his own desire.

Isayama could chose to make him some what of a villainous character, or he could chose to set it up as if eren is more of an anti hero doing then wrong things for the right reasons

  DESCRIBE THE CHAPTER IN ONE WORD 1,543 responses

No superlatives to describe how great or awesome this chapter was this month. The Rumbling hurt us all (well done, Yams, mission accomplished). That being said, it looks like we’re all masochists, considering this chapter is in the top 5 highest rated chapters since chapter 91.

Tragic [169; 4.69]

Sad [89; 4.73]

Pain [77; 4.86]

Depressing [69; 4.75]

Heartbreaking [48; 4.77]

  WHAT ARE YOU MOST HOPING TO SEE NEXT CHAPTER? 2,089 responses

With what we want next chapter we find it especially surprising that the majority are ready to give Eren’s perspective a break. Since google sometimes fails us in displaying the data, we’ll just list it all out. Of the options we provided, our wishes for next chapter from most to least popular are: Let’s keep it with the Eren POV (23.4%), The alliance reaching Odiha (22.4%), WHERE TF IS LEVI??? (10.6%), I could go for a few more mental breakdowns (10.1%), More Ymir being mysterious (7.9%), WHERE TF IS LEVI??? (10.6%), SAVE US ZEKE (8.9%), Oh god go back to Historia please (8.5%), Finality for Floch (6%) and More birbs ovo (2.2%)

Yo where tf is Rico

I want to see levi

fuck yeah more mental break down, I'm ready to be depressed

I really want to see more of Armin and kid Eren in Paths next chapter. That one panel was super interesting and I would love to go back to it.

hurt me more isayama

Please yams I want to see Flochad kill Hange, that’s all I ask for.

Zeke returns next chapter pleaseeeee

HOPE WE GET TO SEE HOW THE ISLAND IS DOING NEXT CHAPTER

It's getting to the final and I don't like that

as only 3-4 chapters are left, I dont think we are going to get another eren POV, I am still dying to see the conditions of the other main characters, whereas zeke and floch are unfinished mysteries.

someone from alliance is dying soon

I've gotta see more Historia. What is she doing and thinking right now? What is her role moving forward?

Just shut up with historia in this survey. She's irrelevant. Now I hate answering your polls.Never again!

i literally don't know what to expect next chapter like yams is just THAT good

  WHERE DO YOU PRIMARILY DISCUSS THE SERIES? 2,025 responses

The platforms where we discuss the series remain relatively unchanged with Reddit providing the plurality of responses. Thank you Reddit! We appreciate it. That said, we’d love to see this chart balance out a little more so please feel free to share the poll wherever you discuss the series. That includes the 5 of you degenerates on Snapchat.

  ADDITIONAL THOUGHTS ON THE CHAPTER? 553 responses

Uhhh *disappears*

ZEKE-KUN PLEASE BE A GOOD ONII-CHAN AND SAVE THE WORLD FROM YOUR TROUBLED LITTLE OTOTO

listen, birds are pretty cool ok

Beautifully tragic, exactly what I wanted to see from Eren after being shown in a villainous light for 30+ chapters. Being introduced to a new character, in particular an innocent child and then finally revealing his name and story was a perfect way to show the true horrors of an indiscriminate near-omnicide, it definitely brought tears to my eyes.

(😢) SIE SIND DAS ESSEN UND WIR SIND DIE JAEGER (😢)

As expected of Isayama-sensei, it's exactly right.

Annie being revealed as aromantic is the unexpected happy development in this tragedy.

Kiddos, the "it's just fiction" argument refers to the fact that you are allowed to *enjoy* watching fucked up things in fiction because people, in general, can distinguish between fiction and reality. It does not mean writing essays to *justify* said fucked-up things that happen in fiction, because you almost certainly start bringing your own real-life logic to fictional events. Aka, mixing up reality and fiction. Showing your true colors. Allowing your beliefs to slip into discussion. Whatever you call that.

THE BIRDS HAVE PATHS, I CALLED IT LAST CHAPTER!

Annie has always had a hard time expressing her feelings and that she has had complexes for a long time. I'm glad Armin was able to tell her what he was thinking because it will give Annie more confidence. Plus, Annie has always been introverted and I love that Isayama tells us more about her character.

The ravens are a reference to Odin’s, a mythology character. He has two ravens, they symbolise memory and mind/thought.

What a manga.

what eren did is right you can come up with any other solution

What in the everliving fuck is going on? Can we go back to factory reset and knock some sense into Eren before he starts having wild ideas like this one? Please

BEST SHIP FINALLY HAPPENING PROPERLY AHHHHH MY BOY ARMIN IS FINALLY TALKING ABOUT HIS FEELINGS EVEN IF IT'S SUBTLE

If Eren is the bird he really is Armins WINGman.

I KNEW ARMIN LIKED ANNIE! But seeing Annie blush was a nice surprise. I thought she was the ice queen in terms of romance.

This poll is bias toward historia. I wish if y’all stop the shipping b.s

birds are supposed to symbolize freedom in most cultures, innit?

This chapter was so important to me. It showed the reality of the rumbling, and that scenery, and most importantly, Eren's true feelings on the genocide, including his now split younger self. He feels guilty about it, he knows it's bad yet he has to do it because he has no other option if he wants Paradis and everyone he loves to survive. During my life I have had a lot of instances where I had to sacrifice a lot  in order to survive, including disociating and splitting my personality in two, crushing my own feelings to do what had to be done, so characters like Eren are very relatable in that sense to me. In a kill-or-be-killed situation, there is no place nor time for doubts nor mercy and you have to do what you have to do.

Very interesting, trágico and raw, but also  liked the comparison between different concepts of the world and freedom between Armin and Eren. Also loved all the AruAni moments, they were not only adorable but also helped those two characters talk about things they needed to open up about since a long time ago lol.

I want to get off Mr. Isayama's Wild Ride

Am I the only one who can't take the alliance seriously?

Wasn't really feeling the AruAni moment, but other than that top tier chapter can't wait for more.

Armin possibly realizes Eren isn't in the right state of mind. If Eren is projecting himself as a child, then Armin might be able to come up with a plan to stop what he is doing.

Fantastic, worth the wait.

Fav chapter yet. Fall of Wall Maria got overthrown as the most depressing event in the series for me.

Favourite line in AOT :"SIT DOWN"

I don't want it to end, but I am very happy about the direction the manga is going.

I felt for eren

This chapter was legendary, it hit all the right notes for finally giving Eren's POV. The shot of child Eren above the clouds will go down as one of the best panels ever... also Eren's line about "disappointment"... fantastic it gave me chills.

I find ‘the cycle of revenge’ storyline tiring. I’ve seen it so many times before and there isn’t anything new being covered here. I just feel tired and sad honestly. My last (and probably unfulfilled) hope for the series would be for Levi to make it through this, work things out with Zeke without violence and be able to move on in his life. He could help the survivors of the rumbling and reestablish civilization, maybe open his tea shop, see the world, maybe fall in love. I don’t really care. I just want to see my boy alive and doing okay for himself. A ridiculous thought for this series, I know. With 3-4 chapters left I feel we will most likely just be left in a misery marinara. I’m soaking in it right now.

I have too many thoughts on this chapter, I wouldn't know where to begin

i wanted him to save ramzi, but i didnt at the same time?? i was glad he didnt spare him, but im sad he didnt?? i dont know why

I just want everything to end already

i just want the best ending for all characters, esp Eren.

I like how Isayama is pushing the cognitive dissonance that i have of what side i should choose.....he is really fuckin with me at this point. All the thinking has now made me kinda numb

I like Isayama drawing birds and see the art improvement through the chapters :D I announce August is the Eek Appreciation Month dedicated to the Wings of Freedom! EEEEEEEEEEEK

I like that it pretty much ended the discussion of Eren having other plans. He's been totally honest the entire time. If he had other plans, why'd he put his friend in danger by having them fight against him?

for real had to pause for a bit at many points in this chapter lmao

Maybe this is why he never talked to his friends- he didn't care about discussing what's right for them, he just wanted his FrEeDoM and would walk over children to get it.

Glad to see Armin and Annie being cute, they deserve a few moments of happiness.

Glad to see Eren’s thoughts and feelings about the rumbling. There are a lot of loose ends that I was hoping to have some answers for in this chapter but it didn’t happen in this chapter, which just made me more intrigued.

Glad to see that Eren's uncaring exterior was finally dispelled this chapter

God I can't see this ending good and I just really want this to be over soon. Never rooted as much for an MC to die as now.

Which of the following best describe how you feel about the rumbling?  Pointless, it won't achieve anything.

while i find aruani cute i still find it weird since she literally was crying the previous chapter. i was disappointed that we didn't get to see all the alliance

Why tf is Ymir in the realworld!?

WHENS MAHVEL

SS ARUANI GONNA RUMBLE THE SHIP HARDER THEN EREN RUMBLED THOSE POOR CHILDREN, TAKE THAT NONBELIEVERS no really, this was built up from s1, and they have wonderfully complementing personalities. Sad that half the fandom gets triggered from any het ship (and vice versa)

Crack theory: Eren has two personalities which is why he acts in contradictory ways. The "evil" nature is in kid Eren and the "good" nature is in the bird. There is no consciousness in his actual body anymore.

Genocide route best route

Way better than the last chapter. 130 was just good art and shipping bait which felt like it was forced for the sake of the end of a volume. This chapter was amazing and balanced its multiple purposes effortlessly, as opposed to the clunky nature of the previous chapters. Probably the best chapter since Ymir's backstory. I love how Armin tied into it, we haven't seen he and Eren's shared dream brought up for a while, as it had faded into background despite being such a driving force for both characters before the timeskip.

I was sure that the dichotomy between Eren's motivations was clearly between his friends/the people he wants freedom for, and his own quest to soothe the anger he has in his heart. Essentially is he doing this for love or hate. Yet we get a third motivation introduced this chapter, of him achieving his child self's dream of freedom in a wall-less world, and what do you know it's tied into "that scenery/that sight", Isayama you genius. What does this mean about those other motivations, though? Is everything false and it's just what Eren is telling himself? What's the lie? What's the truth? What to believe…

It might just be because Eren subconsciously called to Armin. So if more memories surface, more characters can talk with him potentially.

Time loop theory!

Timey Wimey P A T H S shenanigans.

Even if I'm not surprised, it's disappointing to see how Eren is the worst Jaeger after all. He used to make bad decisions trying to help "humanity", but now he just thinks he's right, when not even half of Paradis agrees with his ideas.

I hate Eren from the bottom of my heart. He's disgusting, a total piece of shit. And I love Isayama for giving me all these feelings. He's the real GOAT here.

Really made me wish Isayama hadn't gone for the ~mystery~ of Eren becoming the villain and had instead at least given us the flashbacks in chronological order. The way this long-awaited PoV reveal has been done has felt so clunky and awkward.

I honestly don't understand those who used to support the Rumbling but no longer do after this chapter; maybe they are the same kind of people that romanticized Omnicide and kept defending it as the  "morally correct thing to do"  and that they "would most certainly do it"  if they were in Eren's shoes... Until the reality hit them and all of their posturing like a bag of bricks - i.e. the typical edgy keyboard warrior.

As a pro-Rumbling fan, I always knew this was the expected outcome; if anything this chapter was everything I hoped that Isayama would show to us because it once and for all disproved the idea that Eren has a plan beyond the Rumbling. A Lelouch ending (which I hope doesn't happen) can still be pulled, but its not something that Eren is actively working torwards, but the end result if the alliance somehow stops him.

rumbling go brrrrrrrr

Zeke is controlling the bird with his beast Titan ability that he learnt from the paths realm

"what will my mother think of me?" Ashamed of you, eren, duh.

I really can't feel sorry for eren when this is ultimately the choice he made. There were always other choices up until the point where he killed many world leaders in his attack on Marley.

A bit sappy but understandable. From a egoist point of view Eren is justified in his actions, but of course this just reaffirms the Eldians "monstrous" nature to them. The Eldians dont have a realistic out unless the titans are truly gone forever if Eren loses. Curious about the birds.

A freckled girl appeared. That's progress.

BRUTAL.

Also what about the Eldians living outside of Paradis Island? IMO they are the ones suffering the most

Can he even be stopped?

Can people stop saying that because you enjoy the direction of the story that you’re a genocide supporter? I like shooter games too but I’m obviously not going to go kill anyone, everyone needs to chill out with the moral policing, you sound like the Tipper Gore crowd. Is the rumbling justified? No, but it’s a great direction for the story and it was inevitable once it was established what was in the walls. Chekhov’s gun had to go off sometime, I’m actually surprised how many people seem to be agonizing over this.

Can't put it into words how amazing AOT has become and is just stepping over each level taking one step at a time !!!

Can't wait till next one

Changed the opinion of many people on eren's genocide

Chapter confirmed Eren is NOT the father

Cruel just like the world

This chapter re-assured me that that first scene of Mikasa is the moment she says goodbye to a dying Eren.

Damn bro it’s great

Dang. When this is animated, I guarantee a lot of youtubers and just the anime fandom in general will think this is the best series of all time.

Eren is one of the best MCs of all time.

Eren is one of the most tragic characters on manga

Eren is the best protagonist

Eren is the GOAT but is also wrong and needs to die real soon

EREN IS THE GOATTTT. AOT IS THE GOATTTT. ISAYAMA IS THE GOATTTT.

Eren is truly the best developed main character from any shonen series, this chapter made my mind.

Eren loses it, again

great job Isayama. well done you madman

Great painfull chapter, Eren having a breakdown Made me so sad and depressed,  I wish him to achieve freedom

Greatest manga of all time

greatest piece of fiction of our generation

Hange is right, this is not an acceptable solution

I cried while reading it no joke

I don't even know what to say about Eren. Sure, this chapter is showing his guilt, but that definitely does NOT justify his actions. EXPLAIN YOURSELVES, YEAGERISTS, EREN STANS!!!!!! (sorry I'm just angry about him)

I still think there needs to be a twist, because for me the character development still doesn't work. Eren and Historia have both forgotten common sense and do awful stupid things for stupid, hollow (plot) reasons, and the 104th this entire arc have both become somewhat useless and self-righteous at the convenience of the author. I don't care if the whole arc happened this way just because clearly Isayama wants to have the rumbling as the last arc, but if this was his objective he should have been more focused on character consistency and less on the mystery of it all. It still all feels less like the choices of actual characters than plot convenience, and it gives me the same sensation of the Serumbowl, which I thought was the nadir of the series.

If truly there's won't be some last minute twist it's just bad character writing in service of a plot decided in advance. Same with Historia and the 104th. Who cares about character consistence? Not Isayama, apparently

For some reason Eren wants Armin to the what his is doing.

Honestly, of all the characters Armin is the last I'd want succeding in stopping Eren. Let Mikasa have the spotlight, damn it.

Beautiful pain

Beautifully drawn but very gory

a person can gladly become a devil or a god if he has to, for justice.

A truly sad and terrifying chapter. I never understood how anyone could support this. Don't get me wrong. I understand plotwise why it had to happen. I knew Isayama would show us this. This part was unavoidable for the story he's trying to tell. Doesn't mean I have ever supported it, or that I ever will. But hey at least Aruannie is cannon, so that's a silver linning to this absolutely horrible chapter.

PS. I never wanted to punch a fictional character in the face as much as I want to punch Eren's. Alas, he's not real and I will never get the satisfaction of doing that.

Adding onto child eren's freedom panel, i believe it represents the idea of freedom he had wished for before he was betrayed by the world itself.

All hail the mad king

All that suffering, for what. You won but at what cost

IT MAKES MY HEAD SPIN AND THE FORSHADOWING BUILD UP TO THIS CHAPTER IS JUST *chefs kiss*

It really shows that Attack On Titan isn’t an ordinary story. It is a storyline filled with emotions, tragedies and somehow the cruel reality that this world possesses.

It shifted through a lot of POVs, it was pretty good.

It showed the rumbling and Eren in much more impartial way.

It was crazy to finally see in Eren's Head but all it did was confirm the things I was thinking for awhile and put me more on his side.At this point I'm ride or Die Eren Yaeger just so I can see how this all ends.

It was good, but I wish we would've gotten more with the rest of the crew going to Marley.

Listen, I really love Eren, I have deeply felt for him. I still do, I relate too much with his own traumas but since the timeskip. I have distanced myself from him and I don't and have never supported on his stance for genocide because he set this up with Zeke and pushed Marley to go into war while they didn't want it in the first place. However I have too much of a strong emotional connection to him so I understand him and I admit, it made me doubt a little bit on some of my stances. Since Eren is so different from who he was back before the timeskip, I have always assumed and the manga has not proved me wrong, that he's being influenced by something or someone which is feeling on his traumas, anger, depression and dissapointments. So I am still extremely optimistic about him.

Jesus Fucking Christ

its funny how the dream dies with reality

Its great to finally get some of Erens thoughts but it’s just made me think he’s not acc the one in control

My tears create a whole new ocean.

no opinion really, chapter felt kinda flat and repetitive in parts

Alliance supporters learning that Eren is suffering with all this shit and isn't trash and pitiful like their hypocrite babies who were genociding their own people in the last 32 volumes.

Amazing. The way Eren developed from this angsty little child to someone who's willing to kill everyone to achieve his childhood dream and save his pals is truly wonderful.

Rumbling go wee

I found it tragically ironic that Eren just has a passing thought of what his mom would think of his actions, and it reminds me of how he wouldn’t listen to her when he was younger. Do you think this is a subtle indication that Eren hasn’t matured from the thought processes of a selfish boy, or does he truly hold weight and more consideration to what his mother (and other people) would think? Personally, I think he is more aware of outside views, but just refuses to accept that reality because he is so stuck on his own desires.

It's one of the pivotal scenes because atleast I know that within Eren he still at somepoint have consicience and shows that at somepoint he can be stopped.

Rumbling goes rumble

Eremin <3

Yams makes me confused! I dunno!

Collosal Titans go brr

CONFUSING IN WAY TOO MANY PARTS!!! where to start or stop... from ymir to bird to child eren is all confusing af but nice :)

Depression and depression

Did we really need to spend that many pages on that AruAni BS? So much for fucking 5% being left.

Dis gon be good

Let's get the final confrontation underway!

Welp, there is absolutely no defying it: Eren is the big bad and there is no secret plan to make it up.

Let’s get ready to RUUUUUUUUMBLE!

LETS FUCKING GOOO

Levi and Hange convo when? Armin and Annie end of the world sex when? Jean confessing to Mikasa when? Floch suprise killing Connie or Jean when? Floch getting thrown over board to die at sea rather than being shot when?

LOLZ at anyone still defending the rumbling after this chapter portraying it as something heroic or justifiable

Make me feel. Make me feel more.

Man, this is rough.

Overall well rounded chapter. Time to get back to alliance and Historia after this though.

Poor Eren. But I kind of understand.

Ppl who are calling Eren GOAT or saying they were only sad in this chapter bc Eren cried are legit psychopaths.

Seeing Eren’s POV and reasoning behind pursuing the rumbling makes me feel for him. We know he cares about his friends, paradis, etc. I am at a loss of words for this chapter. However I will say this, Armin in paths with Eren is not a coincidence. I think isayama is foreshadowing of a conversation THEY’VE ALREADY HAD, and what’s to come..

Isayama is being stingy about letting his characters talk to each other properly. I mean really how many scenes do we have left on this boat while the rumbling goes on? When there’s still so much to be said. Wasted chapter imo, a lot more could’ve been said and done.

E+H=Y

Eren confirmed that he will kill everyone. The rumbling cannot be stopped.

Even though we have gotten some insight on Eren's pov, it has created more questions than answers. His motives are still very confusing and we are still being kept in the dark

Every chapter update makes me sad :( the story has gotten so tragic and i love it but oof. I didnt think it could get sadder but Isayama proves me wrong every month

Every new released chapter is better than the last one. I love these series. Props to mr. Hajime Isayama 💪🏆

Exactly what we needed, have more faith now.

Exceeded my expectations. The last two chapters were mindblowing after a slow mini Arc at the port. Isayama can really pull ar your heartstrings with flashbacks and Eren's pov.

Thanks Isayama for the microscopic eremin crumbs

that kid eren scene though... easily the best scene the series so far

That was damn perfect

That was f***ing amazing and awful at the same time. I want this series to end, but actually no. Keep going Isayama. You crazy motherf***er.

the "beyond the walls" talk between armin and eren is being brought up again and im emotional now thx

The ending's gonna disappoint people, no matter how well/badly it's executed. Chapter was cool, but overhyped imo

The pacing seems slow, but then again, it was recently nodded to that the manga won't end at Chapter 134 or 135 but 136. And Isayama does have everything planned out for a long time. I don't think he'll disappoint.

the significance of many things in the story are too epic, carla and mikasa look alike, grisha and eren look alike, historia and dina even look alike, the repeating actions, along with the intricate history formed, give us a lot to speculate but nothing to confirm.

I am somewhat sad for eren, to see the point that he has reached by having that freedom that he longed for so much but that I hardly think exists is sad, I don't know how the hell this is going to end but hey I don't know

I can't even begin to imagine how this is going to look in the anime. Definitely not for the faint of heart.

I can't imagine how the manga will end in a few chapters

I can't wait for 132.

I can’t believe this

I can’t wait to see this chapter voice acted, holy shit.

I loved the context that Eren's apology provides, really gives some much needed insight on his thoughts about the future during the timeskip

I need him to talk to mikasa and armin!

On this poll, I noticed that there's nothing about Mikasa haha. I want her to have a moment for the next chapter, or appear on Eren's memories. We know she's gonna be playing a big role for this arc.

I like where the story is going and I can’t wait for the anime so I can show AOT to everyone.

I think Eren is going somewhere. If he wanted to rumble the world, he can control the titans even from the safety of Paradis. I think he is going to that tree under which Ymir fell.

I think it focuses on Eren a bit too much. Maybe show us some Levi? Thank you.

i think reiner is gay

I am currently not taking a side. Not with Eren or with the Yeagerists or with our heroes. I'm just here to see how it all goes down and how Isayama wants to play it out. I've been enjoying every single chapter and being so moved it's insane. F the ship wars and the bs, this story is much more than that. And tragedy is written all over it. Ok brb getting my tissues prepared for next chapter.... 👍

I don't know how many more issues we're going to have but I worry that the story is going to come to a screeching halt and leave too many questions unanswered. Isayama has got so many plates spinning, narratively speaking, I have no idea how he is going to finish them or if he'll finish them at all.

Just a series of gut-punches one after the other after every panel, oof this chapter affected me more than any other. It also made me wonder about how the planet in general would be affected.  Like how would ecosystems change?  Will Eren only go after the civilized countries and then stop?  Or will he not let a single person survive outside the island and just actually steamroll the whole planet?  If he does, wouldn't that change climates and stuff?  What's about the animals and plants? Am I thinking too much about this? How will the drastic changes affect the Paradisians? All this assuming the alliance doesn't manage to stop him (which is likely)

although initially him and reiner seemed to pursue the same path, eren initial motive was to wipe them all and he said it multiple times, I don't believe he has guilt nor remorse because "it was all set from the very start"

We also got a seamless reintegration of the theme of what it means to be a "good person", something both Armin and Annie have grappled with as far back as Female Titan arc, and it's great to see it re-emerge in the context of the rumbling. Annie is an underrated character. Isayama could have had her come back with some bullshit royal blood or daughter-of-Kruger twist, but instead he decides to integrate her into the conflict as her own person and make her a more interesting character than Reiner (sorry Soul).

Eren is allowed to have emotions, he should be able to feel terrible about himself for having to wipe out most of humanity. But he also believes that this is the only way. He begged Hange if there was another way, he WANTED an option that didn't end with the world being rumbled. When Hange had no ideas, and no else had a plan that would keep Paradis safe, he felt like he had to move forward, towards freedom.

Eren is neither right or wrong in his decision. Killing innocents, destroying entire ecosystems and ending human civilization is morally bankrupt. In many ways his plan is short sighted, but when I say this, my stance comes from a logical standpoint rather than a moral one(the political instability of the island, the precedent it sets, the danger he put his friends in). The *most* moral thing to do was a partial rumbling(there are still some issues both logistical and moral) and while 2 wrongs don’t make a right, I hold Marley and many other nations equally at fault for not being willing to end this diplomatically. Their scorched earth policy brought this on. It’s unfortunate that their citizens are paying the price for their governments crimes. But you can’t threaten to wipe out an entire civilization with no negotiation and not expect a desperate response like a full rumbling. This doesn’t absolve eren of responsibility of his actions, but the rumbling is an extremely unfortunate even that was 100% avoidable if diplomacy had been an option.

Eren, no! That’s all I can say at this point! Armin please, I’m begging you, stop your mans.

Eren, what the fuck?

Eren's self pity doesn't change the fact that he's killing millions of innocents and he's not going to stop despite it.

Eren’s guilt over his actions doesn’t mean a thing considering he’s still doing it. The fact that he saw the future and did nothing to stop it (and actively made it happen) makes him even worse. I don’t feel sorry for him in the slightest.

Even though Eren has the skeletal structure as an (I don't even know.. turkey/bird.. eh...) people are still going to simp the shit out of him on twitter, like jfc-

Eren wanted to destroy all life outside paradis not because he wanted outside world to be just a wonderland of blazing fire , grasslands etc. but because the people outside are making it impossible enough for him to realise his dream of total freedom

I would like to add that AruAni scene was, in my opinion, really important for both armin and Annie character development, since they're having a romance scene with the theoretically enemy (armin is from paradis and Annie is from Marley). I think this represent well that people from Marley and people from Eldia can live together, without violence. (I wish I could write more, but English is not my first language)

I'm glad we're finally getting things more thoroughly from Eren's perspective. Up until now, his motivations and thoughts have mostly been discussed by other characters, but we finally get to hear from him directly. This chapter mostly confirmed what I suspected, that Eren isn't heartless, but he was also a tragic character that was perfectly aware of the destruction he was about to bring upon so many people. Overall really good, can't wait for the next chapter, whatever it may be.

I'm happy that Isayama made clear what an egoist and violent nature  Eren always had, since he was a child: he's not an hero, not an avenger and surely not the "chad goat" some teen edgelords think.

I'm literally shaking so hard rn

The wall titans were always an obvious metaphor for "what if Japan had WMDs", but in this chapter this is made even more obvious when there is nothing left from migrant children but two dark kid-shaped splatters on the ground, which is a pretty clear visual reference to citizens of Hiroshima leaving nothing but scorched silhouettes behind when the atomic bombing happened.

Ironically, there was a popular twitter thread this week about the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and despite not being very familiar with the topic itself, I was somewhat amused to find the arguments in the comments to be very familiar. It's payback, it's to prevent future war, it was justified because of Japanese government's war crimes, Japanese citizens were indoctrinated and racist and would NEVER give up fighting foreigners so bombings were a mercy, it's collateral damage, etc etc.

The warriors deserve much better than being used as props.

There's 99% chance this series is getting a downer ending

They had it coming. The world was warned yet they still provoked him so much. I feel for Eren..

What is the most disappointing thing is how selfish and unreasonable mankind can be. So much hatred between so many people and nations, the world of Attack on Titan is a cursed one. So much blood spilled everywhere, and why? Is it because it's justice? Or is it because it's mother nature? Or is it because mankind is known for bloodshed and selfishness? So much hatred has blinded people, they no longer care to listen for the reason. Nothing matters to them, just their goals. All of this pointless conflict when people can simply try to speak up, try to understand each other, simply make bonds. If people could only live with a bit more empathy... All we can do is hope that so many deaths will have any meaning. Or perhaps Genocide/omnicide never had any meaning... Perhaps all of this was pointless strife.

This chapter confirmed Uri's predictions during his conversation with Kenny by the river. It remains to be seen now whether the alliance will be able to stop eren. I am sad for the world and for Ramzi and his brother. The pictures were horrible to watch (Isayama is very good at drawing emotions).

i'm...so very tired

I’m freakin cryin i need someone to hold me

Slowly, everything is coming back in its place. I am super dedicated at this point to the manga and I just hope Isayama is gonna be able to reach the perfect conclusion for such all these years of construction.

So Eren is a fish Titan...?

Still pro-rumble

Such a tragedy this whole story is. Really heartbreaking to witness. But so meticulously done and masterfully written.

Somebody said, maybe Eren and Zeke were actually fighting or going on memory journey schmuck in the Paths currently, that's why Eren is sleeping and automatically runs the titan on the outside.

If zeke didn’t pull this shit up in the first place none of this wouldn’t happen

Starting to reconsider the time-loop theory being wrong. Everything is literally coming full circle.

Isayama youre a genius but you love seeing us hurt and confused dont you 😭😭😭

It bothered me how surprised people were that Eren did the rumbling and it was sad.  He's been saying he was gonna do it for ages, and now he is.  What's with the surprised pikachu fandom?

Jesus Christ everyone needs therapy

Please end this story with happy ending!