#and that would imply it follows the plot of s2 which is VERY different from the ma/nga..

[himemeika]

Holy fuck this looks gorgeous

[chloe-caulfield94]

Do you think Rachel Amber is manipulative like some people say?

Rachel is a very interesting character because of her wildly different portrayals in Season 1 and Before the Storm, especially when we look at her from the perspective of her relationship with Chloe. In BtS, she's just as interested in pursuing Chloe romantically as Chloe is interested in her, if not more. Even if Chloe chooses to say at the junkyard that she sees Rachel as a friend, Rachel tells her later under the tree that the thing between them is "intense" and that "maybe she [Chloe] sees it as a friendship", clearly implying that Rachel sees it as something romantic.

However, if we go just by what is shown and said in S1, the dynamic between Rachel and Chloe seems to be that while Chloe was deeply in love with Rachel, Rachel "only" saw Chloe as a best friend (I put the word "only" in quotation marks, because I would never want to imply that platonic love you have for your close friends is something worse than romantic love - it's obviously not, but it is different, or at least it's expressed differently).

While these two portrayals of Rachel are wildly different, it is possible to reconcile them. People change as time goes by. Especially young people can change very fast. Some relationships do not withstand the test of time. So one could imagine the BtS Rachel, who loved Chloe and genuinely dreamed of leaving town with her to begin again somewhere far away, slowly turning into S1 Rachel, who lost her love for Chloe along the way, but didn't bother telling her that, letting Chloe live a dead dream.

While the above interpretation is certainly the more comprehensive one, since it bridges both games without leaving any plot holes or discrepancies and it is realistic (time grinds down everything, sometimes even love - that's a sad reality), I don't follow it personally. I just don't want to.

The thought of someone holding the love and devotion of another person in the palm of their hand but choosing to throw it away is soul-crushing to me. The only thing worse than that is someone holding the love and devotion of another person in the palm of their hand, but not even bothering to throw it away, instead just letting it slowly drip between their fingers, neither reciprocating the feeling nor releasing the person who offered it from the spell the holder has over them.

So I choose to look at BtS Rachel and S1 Rachel as two different persons. Or maybe two wildly different portrayals of the same person, of which it is impossible to say which is the "real" one.

I don't think that BtS Rachel is "manipulative". I think that players who try to portray her as such are missing the point of that character. Just like players who claim that Chloe in S1 is a bad person or that Daniel in S2 is an annoying ingrate miss the point of those characters.

Rachel is not some secret villain. Just like Chloe and Daniel, she's a complex and imperfect character. While she's not the playable character, her relationship with that character is the main axis of the game, just like it is with Chloe and Daniel in their respective games. The point of those characters is that while sometimes relationships can become challenging, it's worth fighting to preserve them. That sometimes people deserve not to be given up on. I think that turning Rachel into some sort of "master manipulator femme fatale seductress" who took advantage of unsuspecting Chloe completely warps and taints the message present in all Life is Strange games - one of empathy and understanding, not of prejudice and condemnation.

I don't think that Rachel not telling Chloe that their escapade to the park had a hidden goal of spying on her father is proof of some wrongdoing on her part. Firstly, she told Chloe the truth. She needed company. Someone to support her. She simply didn't tell a girl she's just met her family's dirtiest secret. I think that hardly makes her dishonest. Secondly, she didn't force Chloe to go with her. Chloe made that choice herself. While Rachel must've had a general idea that Chloe wasn't doing well at school, I don't think she could've predicted that principal Wells would react so harshly. And thirdly, don't you think that if she had told Chloe the real purpose of their trip, Chloe would've been MORE, not less inclined to go with her? Chloe felt drawn to Rachel. She would've grasped at an opportunity to gain Rachel's trust by helping her in an hour of need.

I don't think that Rachel pulling Chloe into the school play was "manipulative" either. You could say it was a stupid prank or that her forcing Chloe to leave her comfort zone was not okay. But Rachel's intentions were not malicious. She wanted Chloe to take part in something she liked, anticipating that Chloe would like it too. And wasn't she right? Chloe crushed it on scene.

And yes, by asking Chloe to investigate Sera, she asked for A LOT. But isn't this what you have friends for? If you're in need of help, who are you going to ask for it? Your family and friends. In this instance, asking family for help was out of the question, for obvious reasons. And I don't think Rachel's preppy friends would be willing or able to help in that regard. Chloe was the only person she could count on. Rachel asked for a lot. Chloe was under no obligation to help her. She didn't owe her anything. But she chose to help, because she cared about Rachel. Asking your friends for help is not a sign of being manipulative. It's a sign of you trusting and needing them.

S1 Rachel most certainly didn't do right by Chloe. But I wouldn't call it being manipulative. Manipulation is a way of getting people to do the things you want them to do. And it's clear that in the months preceding her murder, Rachel wanted very little from Chloe. S1 Rachel hurt Chloe in a different way - by not being honest with her. Rachel didn't owe Chloe her love. She didn't owe Chloe a new start together. But she owed her the truth. Once she realized she no longer wanted to leave town together with Chloe, she should've told her that, instead of letting Chloe live a false hope for a better tomorrow that could never come.

[lesbianrobin]

What do you think are the good and bad aspects of each season of ST?

ok 1. thank u for this question omg and 2. this answer may or may not be a mess, but either way it’s long (almost 7k words lmao) bc i’m insane, which is why it’s under a cut. it’s still by no means an exhaustive list but these are the things that just kinda came to mind.

also i realize you asked “good and bad” and i wrote this whole post as “strengths and weaknesses” which um. is not Exactly what you asked. but close enough <3 i also ended up including a lot of au ideas ksjdckmn bc like i personally hate when people say a certain plot or whatever was bad without suggesting anything that could have improved it yknow so whenever possible i tried to provide Some idea for fixing the issues i had with the show!!

season 1

strengths (this is probably gonna be the longest section but that’s because a lot of these strengths also apply to s2/s3 by default)

nostalgia and authenticity

this one’s pretty simple, but i think that season one did a good job of blending classic eighties media homages (such as the many many e.t./el parallels) with explicit pop culture references (such as mike’s yoda impression, mentions of the x-men, etc) to create a show that’s essentially dripping in early eighties nostalgia without it feeling too forced. before st, i think the most popular depiction of the eighties in mainstream media was that overly exaggerated neon scrunchie aesthetic from the mid to late eighties, and it was usually done in a comedic sense first and foremost. st took a different approach, instead focusing on the early eighties, a time that’s often ignored in favor of going either Full Seventies or Full Eighties, and i think that this choice likely resonated with adults who lived through the eighties and hadn’t yet seen something that felt quite so accurate to their own adolescence. a lot of young people who watched st were totally unfamiliar with this period of time, unfamiliar with books/movies like “stand by me” that st borrows from heavily, and i think st lent more seriousness to the eighties than most young people had experienced so far, and this was refreshing and interesting!

the use of dnd in the show is also quite genius in a way i’m not sure i can articulate?? it isn’t something Everyone would have played at the time, but it’s something that existed within a different context back in the eighties than it does today, and it really lent a sort of authenticity to the naming of the show’s sci-fi elements. like, of course these kids would name parallel dimensions and monsters and superpowers after these similar things in their favorite game! it just feels so real and it grounds st in our reality moreso than you might expect from the typical sci-fi or horror universe.

utilization of existing tropes

almost every single character in st clearly originates from some popular trope. the plot itself is riddled with classic eighties movie tropes. almost every single element of stranger things can be clearly traced back to some iconic eighties film or just to, like, overused horror/sci-fi/mystery/coming-of-age movie tropes in general. this might sound like a bad thing, but it really works in st’s favor! starting off with familiar tropes gives st the ability to easily create a lot of complexity and make a big impact by selectively deviating from those familiar, comfortable tropes!! while el’s whole plot, hopper’s character, etc, are all examples of this in action, i think the steve/nancy/jonathan plot is the greatest example. even from the start, the fact that good girl barb dies while nancy is off having sex with her asshole boyfriend is an incredibly thorough inversion of the most well-known horror movie trope in the book. how often do girls in horror movies have sex for the first time, walk home alone in the dark of night, and live to tell the tale? nancy and jonathan’s dynamic at first glance is a sort of classic “good girl meets boy from the wrong side of the tracks, discovers he’s actually got a heart of gold” thing, but instead of following this well-trodden path, st diverged. nancy is brash, impulsive, and at times downright insensitive. jonathan is angry, bitter, and actually a bit of a creep at first. while they have the capacity to emotionally connect and support one another, they can also bring out each other’s darker side, which is not what we’ve come to expect from that initial tropey dynamic.

in addition, steve, the popular rich asshole boyfriend, is actually... a human being! unlike the cartoonishly evil jocks that we’ve come to expect (especially from eighties movies), steve has complexity. despite his initial immaturity and selfishness, he’s also kind to barb, he backs off when nancy says no, he’s gentle and sweet when they sleep together, his first big Dick Move of the season is in defense of nancy, he realizes the error of his ways after the fight and does what he can to fix it, he’s worried about nancy when he sees that she’s hurt at jonathan’s house, and to top it all off, he ends up saving both nancy and jonathan’s lives when he could have just walked away, and the three of them all work together to fight the demogorgon. like... steve began as the most stereotypical character of all time, and by the end of the season, he had one of the most compelling and unique arcs among the whole cast!

finally, at the very end of the season, instead of dumping steve for jonathan as expected, nancy ends up getting back together with steve, and they’re both on friendly terms with jonathan. i realize that i just kinda. summarized s1. but my POINT is that i don’t think the dynamics between the monster hunting trio would be nearly as fun and interesting had the characters of nancy, steve, and jonathan not been set up to follow certain paths that we already had charted in our own heads. like, within the first couple episodes of s1, it’s pretty obvious that nancy and steve are gonna break up, nancy will get with jonathan, and steve will either die or go full evil or just never be seen again. like, duh! you’ve seen this story a million times! you know that’s how it’s gonna go! so, when the story DOESN’T go that way, the impact of each character’s arc and the relationship dynamics become stronger due to their unexpected complexity and authenticity. 

distinct plotlines separated by age group

this one’s rather obvious, but the way that the adults in s1 were essentially in a conspiracy thriller while the teens were in a horror flick and the kids were in a sci fi power-of-friendship story and all three converged at the end... wow. brilliant showstopping etc. not only was it just really well done and unique, it also gave stranger things near-universal appeal. like, there’s genuinely something for pretty much everyone in season one!

casting

obviously this applies to every season sorta by default, but when i think about what made season one So successful, i always think about the cast, and not just winona ryder. yes, she’s absolutely amazing in the show and it’s very doubtful that st would be as big as it is today without her name being attached to it from the start!! however, i think the greatest determining factor in st’s success is the casting of the kids, particularly millie bobby brown. like... el is just absolutely incredible. she’s amazing. this has all been said many times before so i won’t harp on it, but millie and the other kids are all So talented and charismatic and i think their casting has been instrumental to the show’s success.

strong visuals

the way that multicolored christmas lights which have been around for decades are now kinda like. a Stranger Things thing. jesus christ. those lights are probably the biggest stroke of stylistic genius on the show.

atmosphere and setting

this is probably like. the least important one here for me sdjncdsc because i think s2 and s3 both had like Even Better atmospheres and shit but s1 was good too and it laid the groundwork!! i know a lot of people would have preferred st be set somewhere more Spooky with lots of fog or giant forests or whatnot, and while i do enjoy thinking about alternate st settings and how they might alter the vibe, i think hawkins indiana was a good choice. as the duffers have said, placing stranger things in a fictional town allows them more flexibility than if they’d gone with their original plan of using montauk, new york. besides that, i think the plainness and like... flatness... of small-town indiana just Works. like, the fact that hawkins is never really scary on the surface is a big part of the horror in the lab’s actions and their impact. hawkins isn’t somewhere that people just disappear all the time. it isn’t somewhere known for strange occurrences (prior to s1, that is). it isn’t somewhere shrouded in mist and secrecy. hawkins on its surface seems like the sort of place with no secrets and nothing to fear, and that’s the point! the lab is out in the open! it’s right there! everything is so close to the surface, yet so far out of the public eye, and i think that really works.

the byers family’s whole deal (specifically the joyce/jonathan dynamic)

this is going here bc i miss it so bad in s2 and s3. i’m not one of those people who believe The Byers Are The Whole Point of the show, because st is and always has been an ensemble, and el, hopper, and the wheelers are just as instrumental to the plot as the byers, but ANYWAY, i do think the byers were one of the most interesting aspects of s1. joyce’s difficulties with supporting her sons as a poor and (implied mentally ill) single mother, jonathan’s stress as a result of having to earn money, care for his brother, and keep the house in order when his mother is unable to do so, and the resulting tension between them when will’s disappearance and supposed “death” brings the situation to a tipping point? holy shit! it’s so good! that argument after they see will’s “body” is just incredible and gut-wrenching. their relationship feels so real and messy and i think it’s just... good. also winona ryder REALLY acted her heart out and she carried a lot of s1 which i think people often forget to mention so i’m saying it here.

weaknesses

pacing/timing

ok so pacing is probably going to go in each season’s weaknesses, to be honest, because i think they all had a blend of some good and some bad pacing. good pacing is invisible pacing, though, so i probably won’t be putting it in any of the strengths sections and will only be focusing on it in the weaknesses. i’m also probably not going to talk about weird day/night cycle things, just because i don’t want to get nitpicky on timelines because that would require going back and rewatching things to double check timing which i don’t wanna do at the moment lmao. anyway, when i think of bad pacing in season one, i primarily think of two things: nancy’s little trip into the upside down and subsequent sleepover with jonathan, and the sort of staggered nature of the climax in the final episode. the latter is simple so i’ll explain it first: while i understand that each group’s respective climax is like part of a chain reaction and that’s why each big moment happens separately and at different times, i think that st is strongest when the whole group is together, and i think that makes the stakes feel higher too, so i’m not In Love with the way s1 separated everyone and gave each group their own climax. 

okay, now on to the nancy/upside down thing! idk if i’ve ever talked about it before, but i think the worst decision made in s1 by far is the inclusion of nancy’s brief trip into the upside down, wherein she dives headfirst into another dimension with absolutely no backup, watches the demogorgon chow down, freaks out and runs around for a minute, and then leaves. like... what the fuck? even putting aside what an idiotic decision this was (because i do think nancy’s tendency to rush into things headfirst is an intentional and consistent character trait), it just kind of destroys any remaining suspense surrounding the demogorgon and the upside down, and it accomplishes basically nothing besides scaring nancy enough to have jonathan sleep over, which is lame. i will break it down.

like, first of all, nancy just getting to waltz in and out of the upside down and get a good, long look at the demogorgon makes the entire thing far less mysterious, and by extension far less scary. like... before this scene, we the audience haven’t got a good look at the demogorgon. we’ve seen its silhouette briefly and we’ve seen a blurry picture of it, but nothing more, and i think that is far more effective at building fear than this jaunt nancy goes on which gives us a full view of the thing and makes it into less of a horrifying nightmare and into more of a humanoid animal. like, maybe this is just me, but i found the demogorgon far less intimidating after that scene than before. it also lets nancy and jonathan know For Sure that they’re right without providing any crucial information that they need to fight the demogorgon (aka it’s unnecessary to the plot), which removes a very compelling story element (the faith nancy and jonathan need to have in order to keep going against a vague and poorly understood enemy, the doubt they might have about each other and their own sanity, the possibility that they might be wrong, the trust they need to have in each other) a bit earlier in the plot than i believe is ideal. at the end of episode 5, nancy goes into the upside down and jonathan doesn’t know where she is and it’s intense!!! you’re thinking like, oh fuck, not only is nancy missing and fighting for her life now too, jonathan might be implicated in her disappearance!! some people already think he’s the one who killed will and people know that he took creepy pictures of barb and nancy before they both disappeared, maybe this is gonna cause some serious problems for him!! maybe nancy will find will in the upside down and she’ll help him survive!! fuck, maybe she’ll actually die!! this is huge!! and then episode 6 starts and they’re immediately like oh nevermind jonathan found the tree and got nancy out and she’s fine. my point with all of this is that nancy entering the upside down could have done A Lot in the grand scheme of the plot, but all it did was just... get jonathan to sleep over so he and nancy could have some awkward romance moments and steve could see them together and pick a fight. which could have honestly happened at Any point while nancy and jonathan were working together to hunt down the demogorgon, without ruining the demogorgon’s and the upside down’s mystique. so yeah <3

weird behavior and dumbass decisions that make no sense (aka the whole camera thing)

gonna go off about the teen plot again sorry but: why was nancy so unbothered and quick to forgive jonathan for taking those pictures? girl what the fuck are you doing? why wasn’t that a bigger deal? why was jonathan’s motivation for doing it so weak and why did they just kind of forget about the whole thing? why did nancy TRACK HIM DOWN AT THE FUNERAL HOME while he was PICKING OUT HIS BABY BROTHER’S CASKET to be like hey can you tell me what’s in this creepshot you took? it’s insane. it’s so insane. i mean i think the funeral home thing is hilarious and i don’t mind it being in the show necessarily but like my point here is that i think a lot of character decisions in s1 just kind of.. happened because they Needed to happen for the plot. like, they wrote this plot that required jonathan to be secretly taking pictures of the party and required him and nancy to work together after seeing something odd in the pictures, but they didn’t like... really consider what that event would mean for their characterization and relationship. the whole thing was sort of just dropped with minimal discussion and i think it did both nancy and jonathan’s characters a disservice and was really mishandled.

lighting and saturation/color grading

i am literally begging horror/sci-fi shows to let me see shit. i GET IT okay i understand that when you’re doing cgi effects it helps to keep the lights down and i’m not mad at any of the lighting in the demogorgon/upside down scenes!! i’m really not i think the demogorgon scenes in s1 all look sick!! but like... dude. the colors. where are they. why does everyone look like a vampire. i know blah blah this was probably an intentional stylistic choice intended to mimic film at the time blah blah but dude a lot of old movies are very colorful!! please just let people have color in their faces so everyone doesn’t look like a sheet of paper!!! also i’m white and not a professional lighting designer so yknow grain of salt but i think lucas was kinda poorly served by the lighting sometimes in s1. not Hugely so, not to the degree that i’ve seen poc be poorly served by lighting in other shows, but there were some times where it felt kinda like the lighting setup was just not designed with darker skin in mind. 

horror

i just personally don’t find s1 very scary like... ever. i don’t think they were really Trying to be extremely scary yknow so i’m not counting this as a big deal, but i do think that each season has improved on the horror aspects. i think s1′s horror lies more in the mystery and the unknown than in what’s seen onscreen, and as i’ve said already, i think s1 kind of fumbled that suspense ball.

season 2

strengths

the possession plot

i’ll warn u rn this whole s2 strengths section is probably gonna be really short bc idk like. how much there is to really say i feel like it’s all so self-explanatory skjncmn. anyway yeah the possession plot!! eerie as fuck, and noah OWNED. so did winona tbh and finn and sean etc but like. noah. wow! i think the possession plot helped the show maintain a good amount of tension and suspense throughout the season, and a lot of scenes with possessed!will are flatout disturbing to watch. in a good way. i think the mindflayer and will’s possession were far more genuinely frightening than s1′s demogorgon, and it provided a new layer of depth and intrigue to the antagonist besides just “bad monster want eat people.”

tone and aesthetics

halloween season... literally halloween season. halloween season. that is all.

actually i will elaborate a bit and just say that i think s2 did a good job of having the sort of foreboding vibe that s1 was often going for, but without the annoying darkness and desaturation. so points for that.

also st2 is like one of the best Autumn pieces of media ever like it just. like steve and dustin on those train tracks with the fallen leaves all around them.... god. god the vibes are unparalleled. all of the halloween stuff also really contributes to the nostalgia st runs on yknow it makes you think about childhood and trick-or-treating and you kind of get transported like damn... i remember going to the rich neighborhoods to score the good candy..... idk i just think the whole thing is incredibly effective. 

“babysitter” steve

by sending nancy and jonathan off together, the show created a problem: what to do with steve? this problem pushed them to create the unconventional and unexpected duo of steve and dustin, and the world is so much brighter for it. seriously though we all know steve and dustin are great i don’t need to argue that point. all i’ll add is that i think allowing steve to grow in this way, serving as a mentor figure and becoming genuine friends with someone so unexpected, really took the originality of his character to the next level. no longer content just to defy his archetype, in s2 steve begins branching out in ways that never would have been considered in s1, creating an incredibly complex and interesting person from the sort of character that most shows would have simply written out or killed off for convenience’s sake. and it works and steve and dustin are such a joy to watch and i love them. <3

the lucas/max plot

so first of all max mayfield is the most perfect baby girl on god’s green earth and idk what i would do without her but anyway. i think lumax is the best romantic relationship in the show and not just because they’re the only ones with like an age-appropriate approach to the whole thing. it’s also because their relationship accomplishes more than just putting the two of them in a relationship!! lucas and max spending time together motivates billy to do his evil shit, providing more conflict in the narrative, and it also helps establish max as part of the group in a relatively natural way while giving both her and lucas a great subplot. lucas (and dustin) has a crush on the new girl, they start spending some time together, and lucas ends up needing to decide whether he’ll keep the secret of the upside down and lose her, or risk both of their lives by telling her the truth. that’s a pretty big, character-defining decision that he gets to make!! max has to choose whether to trust this boy she barely knows and endanger herself, or to walk away and stay safe, yet another great character-defining choice that also contributes to the sense we get as an audience of max as somebody who’s incredibly lonely and desperate for love and connection. this post is way too long already and i have a ton more to say so i’ll stop now but yeah i think lumax really Works in the show without ever distracting or detracting from the overall plot and narrative in the way that some other ships (coughjancycough) often do.

balance between the normal and abnormal

s2 i think did a pretty solid job of melding daily life with more fantastical sci-fi horror elements. i enjoyed seeing so much of the kids at school in the first few episodes!! you really get a strong sense of where they’re at in life, what their daily lives are like, and you get a sort of gradual shift into madness that makes everything feel more grounded than i think it would if they had just leapt straight into the horror shit, yknow? 

the el and hopper dynamic

go back and rewatch s2 and tell me that’s not one of the most moving portrayals of parenthood and trauma and growing up that you’ve ever seen. you can’t. or well you can but i won’t listen. i really can’t imagine stranger things without el and hopper’s relationship, and it’s my absolute favorite part of s2. their whole dynamic is so beautiful and complex, and gives them each amazing personal arcs in addition! the black hole scene is literally one of the show’s greatest moments of all time. any given scene between the two of them in s2 is just guaranteed to be heartwarming as well as heartbreaking, and i think that makes for an incredible show.

weaknesses

flashbacks

okay this applies to Every season they All have too many flashbacks but in s2 specifically... please stop showing me shit from season one. i watched it. i know what happened. you don’t need to spoon feed everything to me!! flashbacks can be a really helpful way of delivering information to an audience, but st has a bad habit of not only being kinda demeaning in how often they flash back to shit that the audience already knows, but they also have a bad habit of using flashbacks almost as a crutch to avoid having to deliver information subtly and naturally. 

you know i gotta say it... the lost sister

this is so sad. the lost sister really is like a great concept for an st episode, and i’m not mad about the idea of st taking a break from the normal action to focus on one story for a full episode, but the execution of it was just dreadful. kali and her crew feel very over-the-top and stereotypical, and its placement in the season totally kills the tension and excitement that was built in “the spy.” 

i think the lost sister honestly could have gone over far better, even with the stereotypical fake-feeling gang kali has, if they had just swapped it with “the spy” like... ok, the end of episode five has el setting off to find kali and will collapsing on the ground seizing. right? imagine if, instead of immediately following will to the lab, we’d followed el. we don’t know what’s happening with will, but it’s a very simple cliffhanger that leaves us on edge without making us feel cheated by the show cutting away. we follow el on her little journey, everything happens much the same as canon, and then at the end, el sees hopper in scrubs. she sees mike, screaming, sees that they’re both in danger. holy shit!!! what the fuck!!! what’s happened since we left will seizing on the ground??? we feel el’s fear and confusion. she decides to go home. and then... boom. “the lost sister” is over. now, we rewind, right back to will seizing on the ground, and “the spy” commences. we learn how they got into the danger that el saw in the end of “the lost sister,” and we sit on the edge of our seats all through “the spy” and “the mind flayer,” KNOWING that el is on her way back to save them but not knowing when she’ll arrive!! idk i don’t think that would have necessarily saved lost sister but i think it may have alleviated some of the issues that i and many others have with it, timing-wise.

the nancy/jonathan sidequest

once again, the idea of nancy going off on her own little mission to find justice for barb after s1 is like. amazing. genuinely i love that plot for her and i can’t imagine anything better for her to have focused on in s2. unfortunately though i think her and jonathan’s little trip to see murray was just kind of... lame. the whole thing just felt like an excuse to get the two of them alone together, yknow? which is fine i guess people contrive all sorts of situations to get characters alone together for romance reasons but in this case i think it just really doesn’t work for me because of what it’s juxtaposed with. like, will is POSSESSED, and jonathan is just off on a mini road trip and sleeping with his bestie, and jonathan never seems to communicate to joyce/will that he left town, and joyce never like... thinks to tell him that will is like sick and fucked up and they’re looking at him in the lab??? like it’s so weird i know joyce always forgets about jonathan when shit’s happening with will but jfc you’d think at some point in that like... 72-ish-hour period where jonathan was out of town she would have thought about him. like at least once. maybe i’m forgetting something and she mentioned him sometime and i missed it but even still, i hate the juxtaposition of nancy and jonathan just like cheers-ing at murray’s place and sleeping together and whatnot while everyone else is dealing with possession or trying to hunt down dart yknow? it feels really boring in comparison and i think it could have been done far better. like it was SO insanely easy for them to get into the lab and get an admission of guilt and escape with it!! i think it might have been a lot more engaging if maybe someone from the lab tailed them to murray’s place and they had to like lose the tail and race to get the recording out to as many news outlets as possible before they got caught, or something like that. the tension in their plotline is completely resolved in episode four!! episodes five and six are just them screwing around and addressing envelopes. while there were a lot of strong ideas in this plotline (i really enjoy nancy going out of her way to get justice, and the fact that they have to water down the story to make it believable), i just think the focus on nancy and jonathan getting together hindered it a lot without adding a ton to the plot or their individual characters.

season 3

strengths

starcourt mall as a setting

while i don’t think the mall was utilized quite to its full potential (something i could make a separate post about if anyone’s interested), i do think that starcourt was a genius addition to the series. i’ve said this before, but building a new mall is a literal Perfect in-universe justification for a significant leap forward in fashion and aesthetics, and it provides a great location for characters to just... be characters. idk how else to articulate this i just think that the mall is a great setting to let people interact with each other and to bring people together who may not have been otherwise (i.e. scoops troop). not to mention how sick it was to see the mall get wrecked toward the end kdjncdkm like they were able to do so much more with the mall in terms of like The Finale than they could with just the byers house or the cabin or the school or even the lab. i love all the back tunnels they run through it’s such a fun like acknowledgement of how this glitzy eighties mall is just a real place where employees get shipments and take out the trash and shit idk it’s all about the perfect facade and what’s hidden what’s underneath what’s hiding in plain sight etc etc i’m just saying words now. anyway. 

willingness to experiment and go against expectations

gay robin. neon aesthetics. giant fucking meat monster. i know some people hate both the neon and the meat monster but i personally think they were kind of amazing and like. yknow regardless of personal tastes i think it’s impossible to deny that s3 had a lot of incredible visuals, and they’re all visuals that just wouldn’t have been possible if the show were too afraid to stray from its s1 aesthetic. robin being canonically gay (and her resulting friendship with steve) and the season’s striking visuals are two things that most everyone (besides like homophobes skjncdknm) can agree were great, right? and they were both departures from where the show began and what we all expected!! so yeah i think while some of the experimentation in s3 wasn’t ideal it was also that experimentation that allowed for some of the season’s strongest elements to come about.

the hospital sequence (and the season’s action/horror scenes in general)

this one is fairly self-explanatory. while they may have underutilized the “body snatching” element of the season, the hospital sequence with nancy and jonathan fighting off their possessed bosses did an amazing job of building tension and creating a genuine sense of really intense and personal danger.

in general i think that s3 melded action and horror rather well, particularly in the sauna test, the hospital, and when the mindflayer busts through the roof of hop’s cabin. horror can come from many things, and in this case, st elicited horror largely from the feeling of helplessness, and it was really effective for me personally. i think it worked better for me than s1′s brand of horror because it doesn’t rely so much on a lack of knowledge or a sense of suspense that inevitable disappears upon a second viewing.

the body horror we got in s3 was also really fun! that’s it i just think all the blood and guts and slime were fun and i would like more of them. once again, the impacts of body horror are less dependent upon the viewer being in the dark or unsure as to what’s happening, and as such i think it tends to be a little more effective at eliciting reaction in the long term.

timing and mechanics of the battle of starcourt/finale

i think the battle of starcourt is just fucking awesome, and beyond that personal opinion, i think it’s the most high-stakes and intense finale of all three seasons, and this is for two main reasons! 1. el is out of commission, and 2. (almost) everyone is in the same cental location. this means that (almost) everyone is in danger all at once, and they are all working together at the same time to fight the same threat. s1/s2 have their groups more fragmented for the finales, and while i understand why in each case and i wouldn’t call either season’s finale necessarily weak, i do think the centralized nature of the s3 finale just Works on another level. in s1 and s2, large segments of the cast are already perfectly safe by the time el dispatches the primary threat. in s3, however, everybody save for dustin and erica is still in danger up until the last moment, and el is seemingly (you can def debate how much power she still had in her when she peeked into billy’s mind and whether the memory broke the mindflayer’s hold on him or if she was actually controlling him to some degree) completely vulnerable. this increases the tension and raises the stakes, making the finale a real crescendo to fortissimo as opposed to a series of little mezzo forte moments. i hope everyone reading this knows music idk how else to phrase that my brain is stupid.

emphasis on friendship and adolescence (but in a different way than s1/2)

this is definitely a controversial one but i think that s3 really did like... show a side of friendship that had been more or less unexplored thus far in the show. el and max were amazing, and i think it’s really nice that we got an opportunity to see the kids have some growing pains as well as see them support each other through Normal Adolescent Stuff like boyfriends and breakups instead of just like. death and trauma. this is maybe just a personal preference, but i think it can be really enlightening and provide a lot of depth when you get to see how characters respond to normal everyday conflict and not just how they respond to giant world-ending conflict!! letting el use her powers for goofy teenage shit like spying on boys and messing with mean girls at the mall is not only fun for her and the audience, but it also really emphasizes just how much those powers are a part of el, making it that much more devastating when she loses them at the end of the season. 

weaknesses

tonal dissonance

so this is like. obvious. but it must still be said! i won’t go on and on about it since we all know this so i’ll try to like talk about it from an angle people don’t usually? anyway. it seems to me like they were maybe a little worried about s3 being too dark. while the choice to really lean into humor was definitely driven by the sorts of eighties teen films from which s3 drew inspiration (like fast times at ridgemont high), i think it was also done in an attempt to alleviate the more troubling implications of some events in the season, particularly the russian bunker plot. like, yeah, st can be incredibly dark, but if they’d played the whole “children being stuck inside of a foreign military base, tied up, tortured, and drugged” thing completely straight without the humorous elements that exist in canon, it had the potential to be like... disturbing on a new level. steve and robin don’t have powers like el yknow their kidnapping/torture doesn’t have any sci-fi elements to sorta soften the blow. they’re just innocent teenagers being brutalized and traumatized by grown men. so anyway yeah i think maybe the writers were concerned about this storyline coming off as too dark and they wanted it to be a little more whimsical but they ended up pushing way too hard in that direction and creating extreme dissonance at times. this goes for joyce/hopper/murray/alexei too, but to a lesser extent. i think the ridiculousness in that group felt a lot more like... realistic. but still. 

newspaper plot

once again i feel like i don’t even need to say this skjdncmn we all know it was insane how the show basically ended up delivering the message “while misogyny is a serious problem poverty and classism are not” and i’ve said it on this blog a million times so i don’t need to repeat myself. i’ll focus on another weak point of this plot: the fact that it completely separates nancy and jonathan from everyone else. once again, the show’s preoccupation with j/ancy held them back! like... can you imagine a version of s3 where nancy and jonathan both worked in the mall? i have a lot of ideas about this possible au and like how the plot could play out differently if they worked in the mall but first of all it’s just more realistic, second of all it further utilizes the mall as a central setting, and third of all, it would bring everyone together. as it is in canon, nancy and jonathan were unnecessarily isolated from the rest of the group, and this isolation was detrimental to both of their characters. like, they only ever get to interact with each other! if they’d gotten summer jobs in the mall, they could have had more interactions with the kids/steve/robin, and they absolutely still could have had a similar argument! maybe in this case, nancy notices the rat thing (or something else odd) herself when taking out the trash behind the mall, and she wants jonathan to ditch work with her to check it out bc she thinks it may be related to the lab. jonathan doesn’t want to ditch work because he needs his job, nancy argues that they’re working shitty mall jobs anyway and who cares if they get fired, and we get more or less the same thing as s3 without the cartoonishly over-the-top misogyny. i mean honestly i think the rat shit could have been cut entirely it didn’t rly... accomplish much of anything. in my opinion. like imagine s3 without the rat plot you literally would not be missing anything except it would be more surprising when the dudes melted into goo at the hospital. so yeah i think it would have been better if nancy and jonathan had jobs at the mall, weren’t isolated from everybody else, and were maybe absorbed into the party’s plot or the scoops troop’s plot from very early on, allowing them to interact with more characters and have a less... dumb.... plot. like god splitting up nancy and jonathan between the party/scoops troop would have been So Much better i just. sdkjcnksdmn anyway yeah.

briefness of group reunion/separation of groups

remember in s2 at the beginning of “the gate,” where mike and hopper had a confrontation and max and el met for the first time and el hugged everyone and steve and nancy had their sad little moment together outside... where’s that energy? obviously the s2 reunion wasn’t that long either, but it made space for some significant emotional moments to take place. s3′s reunion had some hopper/el/mike resolution, but besides that... there was nothing, really. i just think that the whole group getting together in s3 was SO exciting and powerful the way they did it (with both the scoops troop and the adults having their own Big Moment reconnecting with team griswold family), but the emotional potential was more or less squandered. 

i also think in s3 at times they were really stretching to keep everybody separated even though it made no sense. and like... in s1 the separation worked bc nobody else knew that (x group) was experiencing weird shit too, and beyond that, each group (as i mentioned in the s1 section) was sort of operating within their own genre and bringing something unique to the season. they’ve stopped doing that though! now, the groups aren’t separate bc each plot is tonally/structurally different, the groups are just separate bc... they need to be, because it’s a big ensemble cast and you can’t just have them all be together for a whole season or it would be way too difficult to coordinate things and keep the show dynamic. all this is to say that i’m excited for s4 because the location differences make it so there’s a Reason for each plot to be separate at the beginning, and i think that’ll work better.

general ridiculousness

i dont mean like i think it’s bad that they made jokes this is just me lumping in all the dumb shit like hopper not worrying about el and not wanting to check on the kids, him and joyce bickering long after they both know they and their children are in danger, max seemingly forgetting that billy is a racist abuser, etc etc. i think many of these are just a symptom of the show 1. trying desperately to keep the groups split up a certain way even though it may not make any sense, and 2. trying to fit into a certain genre/trope mold when their actual characters are more complex than the tropes they’re imitating. this is so fucking long already i am not gonna elaborate further rn but i trust u all know what i mean.

soooo... yeah, that’s about all! i mean it’s not all there are definitely many more things i could talk about and i know i focused sorta disproportionately on the teens which is my bad :/ but i’m done for now. thank you for asking, and apologies for the delay in responding!! i’m sure some people reading (if anyone read this far) will disagree with some of what i’ve said and that’s alright like i’m not The Authority on st or anything i’m just trying to talk about like my own thoughts yknow? so yeah luv u all i hope someone enjoyed reading this!!

[liesoverthec]

the post hasn't surfaced yet so please use this ask to talk abt the objectification of the 911 men!!

Ahh May you’re too nice but also thank you, I’m gonna 😂💛

This got. CRAZY long bc I just had a million thoughts so I’m gonna stick it under a cut.

To be honest, I think the reason they do *any* sort of objectification at all is that middle aged and older viewers are used to being able to objectify actors to a certain extent. Lord knows it happens on literally every other single piece of media, and this is a mainstream broadcast show, not an indie series or the likes, so I think they have to cater to those people as well as us, and the WAY they do it is so interesting to me bc even when they’re doing it, they use it as a way to drive home other, deeper messages.

For starters, I feel like the show OG was trying to be in the pilot and the first few episodes would have objectified the men WAY more than we see now if there hadn’t been that shift in tone - the sex addict plot could have been SO much more extended and given us a lot more opportunities to see Buck shirtless and to objectify him and his body. So I find it SO interesting that around the same time as Bobby opening up about his family and his past, we also stop w/ Buck being blatantly shirtless all the time. Narratively, it signals to me the point where the writers moved away from the the typical tv show that will treat their actors like meat, and moved more into a “female gaze” show. And then what’s really interesting to me, is that for Buck, after that, when he has sex w Taylor Kelly in s2, both times we NEVER see him undressed. The second time they don’t get very far, but he’s wearing a buttonable shirt. He absolutely could have been wearing that shirt closed, and she could have opened it, and he could have been wearing nothing underneath it, and we would have seen his chest again in a sexy scenario - but they didn’t. In fact they made the DELIBERATE choice to give him an undershirt. And of course with the first time they cut away and just left us w the understanding that sex was happening, yet again taking away an opportunity to show O.S. at least partially undressed. Which is SO different from how s1 goes about it, where we actually see Buck w his shirt open and his underwear exposed MULTIPLE times. So it’s so incredibly interesting to me that while none of the (main/regular) women’s stories are ever about sex like Buck’s is, I also think it’s REALLY interesting that the objectification of the men was, and could have been, much worse and that they didn’t have to move away from that, but they did.

But then secondly! The very last time we get into a plot that revolves around the men’s bodies specifically is in 2x01, which is SUCH an interesting plot. Surface level - it’s just about the men competing about who’s more attractive, and we get lots of muscle flexing and hot manliness to go along with it. And it is, at a surface level, incredibly shallow. But simultaneously they use it to 1. Introduce the idea that Buck wasn’t a sex addict bc he was “dealing w the stress of the job” like s1 mostly implied. It was bc he’s desperate to feel useful and wanted by someone, and at that point he really wanted that acceptance within the firehouse, rather than from other people. (Bc lbr, Abby didn’t do shit for Buck. It was Bobby, opening up and accepting the family, and specifically Buck, that gave him the connection he’d been seeking through sex.) And then 2. They also use it as an opportunity to SPECIFICALLY, IN CANON, say that it’s what you do that makes you attractive, and that makes you a hero, not how you look. Which is just!!! A crazy message!!! Especially considering they follow through on it, particularly in the areas where the women are concerned!

And in regards to 2x01, it’s soooooo fucking interesting to me that the ONLY time we really truly see Eddie shirtless, he’s actually putting clothes ON. They literally do the opposite trope of 'giving the hot male an excuse to take his shirt off'. And sure, they make it a sexy moment, but there's absolutely interesting commentary there about him actively covering himself up at the moment he is most sexualized, and it being taken as a sexy thing. Something about how you don't have to be naked to be attractive, it's about your intent in your actions, rather than your physical body. (Probably me reading too far into it, but again, they COULD have had him striping off his regular shirt, a good few seconds of him shirtless digging through a bag, and THEN the sexy slow mo pulling shirt on. At the very least, when they objectify him there, they make it MUCH shorter than they could have, which is SO DAMN INTERESTING to me).

But then finally, we still do have shirtless scenes! But the fact that it’s Chim who’s shirtless is just SO FASCINATING. Bc THE WAY THEY DO IT - they're never dunking Chim in a lake, or having something spilled on him, like other shows would do, to get his shirt clinging to him and him to whip it off in a spray of water or whatever. It's in scenes where it makes sense for him to be shirtless, and its NEVER treated like a big deal. It's just Chim, in his body, comfortably living his life. So I think the way they do it gives him more respect than other shows give their male characters, let alone their female characters 💀

And it's SO interesting to me that they use Chim (I mean, besides the fact that K.C. clearly has muscles for days and wow of course you'd use Chim). But I just think - on any other show, it would absolutely be Buck who we see casually shirtless. And that WAS almost this show, which is why we saw him shirtless at all. But failing that, it should have been Eddie. And then of course, after Eddie, it should be Bobby. I mean, plenty of other shows go for the 'sexy middle-aged white man' (cough cough LS) so Bobby would be the next logical step in the "who are we gonna make our hot man?" ladder, also - P.K. has BICEPS THAT COULD CRUSH ME so I would not blame them for making him the hot one.

But - like I said in my tags on my original post - I'm always thinking about Chim's story in 2x01 with the calendar, and feeling like he never gets to be the hero (WHICH I COULD GO ON AND ON ABOUT HOW BEING THE HERO IS EQUATED THERE TO BEING THE HOT ONE, SO LIKE, CHIM BEING SHIRTLESS, SUBTLE REINFORCEMENT OF HIM BEING A HERO!) I love that for him, being the truly hot one on the team. And then you throw in his story from 2x04, and feeling like his life wasn't going anywhere and seeing him now, comfortable in his body and his life and being happy??

I wish no one had to be objectified and shirtless but I know this is broadcast tv, and honestly, the choice for it to be Chim, with his story and his background, in itself is I think a choice that makes me happy.

Of course, the show is nowhere near perfect, and I’d argue that it’s one of the areas they fall shortest in. Buck sleeping w his therapist would never have happened for a woman on this show, and it CERTAINLY wouldn’t have been brushed off again as a joke like it was in s3. And it really bothered me in 4x07 when the lady slapped Eddie’s ass, esp since he was clearly uncomfortable with it. I’d actually really enjoy seeing them write a plot for one of the men that addresses them feeling oversexualized as firefighters, and how people seem to think they have permission since the men are all public employees, bc I think the show could do it really well, and I think it’s an area that hasn’t been addressed on other shows recently (plus lbr I know I’m biased but I think OG would do it better if it has been done…)

So idk. I don’t know if I have a solid conclusion here. The show does SUCH a good job with the women, and a solidly less good job with the men - but I also see some really interesting choices at work that I really respect.

Thanks for the opportunity May, sorry if there was no coherent thread to this. 😂🤷‍♀️

[sashannarcy]

hi op what are your thoughts on uhhhh *spins wheel* sasha's season 2b arc (hope that's not too broad a subject)

edit: putting this under a cut bc it got LONG but. enjoy (???)

okay I gotta start by saying I didn't expect the depth of it at ALL; I knew Sash was featured prominently in the ending episodes of s2 based off of what my friend informed me, but like. I was not expecting 4.5 episodes to be almost ENTIRELY centered on their character arc and design (the .5 being the first half of True Colors).

that being said, I think Sash's 2b arc is PHENOMENAL bc of the way the nuance in it is written so incredibly well. this character is about to perform the most antagonistic move that they've pulled in the whole series so far, which is the act of betraying both Anne and Marcy in order to support Grime and get them home safe, if they so choose to go home (as an aside, I think at this point Sash has probably decided that she likes it more in Amphibia than back home, and there's one line that I'll get to that seems to be VERYYYY indicative of that. and if this is the case, it makes sense to me why Sasha would want to help Grime at all and why they don't really seem quite eager to follow Anne and Marcy back home. but! important to note that they still give those two the choice to go back if they wish, because at the end of the day Sash loves them and wouldn't try to force them to stay). and yet we see!! this back and forth!! this FIGHT that's happening in their mind, the way there's a flash of guilt they express at the very end of The Third Temple directly after confirming to Grime that things are still going according to plan, their convo w Anne at the end of The Dinner, the entire plot arc of BotB, and ofc the Sashanne duel in True Colors. I want to make an analysis post for each of these episodes because they're so fucking PACKED w shit to analyze, but I'll try my best to touch on all points here.

obviously we first learn of Sasha's plans to betray Anne and Marcy in The Third Temple. but what's important is that throughout the entire episode, there's several points where Sash switches back and forth between manipulation and honesty. I can talk abt this w confidence just based off of the whole. *gestures vaguely at myself.* but Sasha's initial apology in this episode was sheer manipulation, I think we all know that. however, when Sasha has to do their final test in the temple, those few lines they exchange w Anne in the moments before they raise themself up off the floor and launch themself into battle... those were genuine. they know they've been a shitty friend, and they're willing to accept that. so you have this game, almost, where Sash keeps flipping between putting on a mask to ensure they can keep up their facade until Grime secures the city and genuinely acknowledging their behavior and knowing that what they are doing is not going to sit well w Anne and Marcy.

so with that, The Third Temple sets the premise for the rest of the episodes of the season as far as Sasha's character arc. The Dinner is such a good fucking episode to follow with, because it hammers in the fact that Sasha has not changed. what it ALSO hammers in is she is still acting in her own self-interest - to put it in her words, she wants to get the friendship back under control. they still lash out, they still have a short fuse, they're still heavily opinionated and rough around the edges and prickly because this is an environment where they feel threatened. they're finally reuniting with the two people that mean the absolute most to them, only to realize they've been left out of the narrative. also not for nothing, but their trauma in Reunion got joked about in this episode which led to them blowing up over it, and like. I'm giving that one a pass bc man. anyway. at the end of the episode they say they like who they are, but it's said with a frown, which I think is fucking GENIUS. because there's an actual meaning to this line - they don't ACTUALLY like who they are. we have plenty of evidence that they don't like themself. what they MEAN is that they don't want to change, because that would mean giving up a security that they need in order to keep themself together. AND THIS IS DEMONSTRATED CRYSTAL CLEAR IN BOTB. they literally PURPOSEFULLY detach themself from Anne and Marcy bc they know they want control but they ALSO know that their behavior is just going to hurt the other two, so instead of compromising, they just go hey I'm gonna do my thing and you guys can do yours. and we'll both get what we want. and if that's not evidence that this character is fucking GRAPPLING with how to grow and change as a person, idk what is

and then. sigh. we get to True Colors. ofc Sash goes through on their betrayal - they're loyal to a fucking T once you dig beneath the surface, and they wouldn't just not follow through for Grime. what is absolutely KEY here is the fact that they are still leaving room for their friends' best interests, as in they're not trapping them in Amphibia but rather explaining how they're gonna help Grime take over, implying they'll go back home once they're done, but if Anne and Marcy wanna go back now, that's cool. if she didn't give a fuck abt their wellbeing, she'd just keep them there w her. but she doesn't. and then Anne starts retaliating, and. well. we ALL know Sasha does NOT do well with criticism of any kind. so they just go okay I'll send you back now then (and this is STILL an action motivated by what they think is best for Anne). BUT THE LINE. OHHHH THE SUPER IMPORTANT LINE THAT MADE MY HEAD SNAP UP AND MADE ME PHYSICALLY GO "YIKES" OUT LOUD. is Sasha saying "say hi to your parents for me." it's like a goddamn full-on sucker punch packed into one sentence - seven words, and all of a sudden we know for sure this kid does not have a good home life. I could go into elaboration on Sasha and the way she views familial ties throughout the show, but I won't bc that's gonna take this already super long answer and make it even worse. regardless, Sasha has once again flipped the switch and is indulging in their worst behaviors, which is full on controlling and holding power to act on what THEY think is best in the moment. and the moment Anne snaps, the moment Anne yells about Sasha being a horrible person, literally EVERYTHING shifts and the reaction from Sasha is VISCERAL. and what I mean by that is. it's not just the look in their eyes at those words. it's not just the sudden and complete loss of meaning, of self, of motivation after they've lost Anne's support. it's not just the way they stare at their own reflection in a sword that represents the color of the person they're trying their hardest to protect. it's the way that for the rest of the goddamn episode, they spend it trying to do the one thing they fear the most: giving up control. I'm gonna elaborate on this whole aspect in a different ask bc I was asked abt it, but the way Sasha acts towards Anne after the fallout, especially at the beginning of the duel and during the confrontation w Andrias, is fucking monumental. they struggle so much with how to change their own behavior, yet the very moment they lose the support of the people they've been trying so hard to love and care for in their roundabout way, they can change the way they act. because who the fuck is Sasha Waybright without Anne Boonchuy and Marcy Wu? in her mind, no one. she doesn't have any idea of who she is outside of this, so ofc she can act differently when she's thrown out in the cold. after all, it doesn't take much to warp an identity that doesn't exist.

tldr; god. how do I sum this up. Sash's 2b arc is smth that's incredibly intricate and complex from the way they constantly flip between desperately needing control and feeling guilty that this is the way they need to live. and True Colors is able to finally demonstrate to us the final piece in how they operate - without their friends, they lose sense of who they are, and their personality comes undone. in 4.5 episodes the writers managed to give us 1000 aspects to their character that we hadn't gotten to explore, and we can see that Sasha was never meant to be the villain. so. final review is that's some good shit👍

[tendercoretroglodyke]

... I’m interested in legitimately gay Reese (I assume one piece of evidence is “look at what they’re doing and tell me you’re not gay”)

okay this is like 2 days late but this is why reese malcolminthemiddle is legitimately gay:

(side note: did anyone need a queer media thesis paper or something... I am willing to share lmao)

so none of this is like... rock solid evidence or anything but I need to believe at least one main character of a show is gay and/or trans to maintain interest and reese is the most plausible gay character. also it’s early 2000′s so he just gets a lot of vaguely homophobic jokes lmao

first of all, yes, the biggest piece of evidence he’s gay is those lines from that episode I quoted the other day--thinking malcolm is gay, he tries to show his support by giving him a gay porno: “’Naught Pool Boys 3!’ I watched 10 or 12 of these, and this one seems to have the most stuff you guys like.” and when malcolm says he isn’t gay, reese responds “Malcolm. Check out what those guys are doing in that movie, and THEN tell me you’re not gay.”-- so, 1) reese sat down and watched like a dozen gay porn movies to ““find a good one for his gay brother”” and 2) he thinks malcolm would reconsider his heterosexuality if he watched what was in that movie, implying that HE reconsidered his sexuality after watching that movie, or at the very least found it hot

in the same episode, the character tricking malcolm into thinking reese is gay lists the following as evidence: he obsesses over his hair and his looks, loves his gourmet cooking, has a bunch of magazines covered in comically muscular men, and that he’s angry and acts like a jerk because he’s “dealing with something weird and confusing.” now obviously, the obsession with hair/looks can be chalked up to the fact that he’s a teenage boy, and there’s nothing inherently gay about enjoying cooking. the dozen magazines of muscle-bound men could certainly be taken as gay evidence, though, and it IS established in the show that his entire bully persona is his way of masking his inner feelings and insecurities. there’s literally a whole episode where he & malcolm realize they have no friends because they act like little shits to push people away because they’re afraid of rejection and/or abandonment from their peers. they ostracize themselves before they can be ostracized by the other students at school. I could probably write a whole other essay on reese’s psyche tbqh lmao there’s a shocking amount there!!

of the brothers who are actually old enough to be attracted to girls (reese, malcolm, and francis), he shows the least interest. now bear with me here. you might be thinking, “well, yeah, it’s malcolm’s show, we’re not gonna see things from other people’s perspective!” but that is actually surprisingly untrue, the show is very much equally shown from each family members’ perspectives. starting about s2, when malcolm is in early middle school, he starts getting crushes on girls and pursuing them. francis goes after a few women in the first couple seasons and then marries a woman we see a lot throughout the show. 

in the roughly... 130?? episodes I have watched so far, nearly all of reese’s “interest” in girls involve either: competition with malcolm, genuinely just liking her as a friend, or some completely ulterior motive. the only exception to this I can think of is in the early seasons where he has a crush on a cheerleader and tries to get on her good side by joining the cheerleading squad, which the writers clearly set up as a way to make gay jokes about reese. let me give you a few examples of his relationships with girls

the first relationship we see him in is with a “stupid girl” that malcolm tried (and failed) to date, and the main reason they get together is that they think on the same wavelength and genuinely seem to enjoy hanging out. they take breaks from their bro chats to make out every once in a while. eventually he gets her to break up with him because he doesn’t want to go to the school dance with her (he doesn’t want to go at all). years later, he’s dating some girl we meet for like 5 minutes, before he goes to confess to her that she’s the first girl he’s ever loved. she then breaks up with him. he’s sad, but taking it fairly well. he’s about to leave when he sees malcolm hiding under the bed, and learns that he stole his girlfriend. he then runs away to join the army. he was clearly MUCH more upset that his brother stole his girlfriend than he was that his girlfriend broke up with him. there are many more instances of him and malcolm competing for a girl’s affections, and he seems mostly motivated by the competition itself.

in addition to “stupid girl,” he also manufactures an “attraction” to his female army buddy in the last season. the premise of this episode is that his old army buddy (a girl he play-wrestles with and insults like he would his own brothers) comes to visit him, and malcolm convinces reese that she’s attracted to him, and that reese’s nervousness at learning that fact is proof he’s in love with her. there’s a misunderstanding where reese asks her if she has certain “feelings” and she says she does, but what she ACTUALLY means is that she has a crush on reese’s MOM. she’s a lesbian. reese later propositions her (saying he’s saved his virginity for this--he’s probably about 18 here), and when she says omg no im gay, he is HUGELY relieved they can go back to being friends. CLASSIC mlm/wlw friendship moment. 

there’s an episode where these cute girls pick up reese (& nerds) to kiss in front of their boyfriends to make them jealous. reese is all for it, and when malcolm argues that it’s not worth his dignity and the beating he’ll get from the girl’s boyfriend, reese counters that that’s WHY he wants to do this--he’s completely invisible at school, and thinks getting beaten up for kissing some guy’s girlfriend will at least make him known around school. at no point does he indicate he’s actually attracted to this girl, and when it comes time to kiss her, he finds the weakest excuse to run away at the last minute. 

im not gonna list all of these but there’s more lmao

the following is a random assortment of one-off gay jokes and out-of-context lines with gay reese implications, often homophobically bc its early 2000′s writing:

says “I’m gay” to a girl to give malcolm a better shot at her

(again in competition with malcolm) tries to flirt with a girl by spraying milk in her face as the punchline to a joke, which is. well. hm. self-sabotaging, to say the least!!

Reese: “Do you think it’s right to totally change who you are and turn your back on EVERYTHING you believe in, just to impress a hot guy??” [his dad gives a long, blank stare, before asking:] “...Burt Reynolds hot, or Sting hot?”

“YEAH I like clouds! I call them sky kittens :)” (I just think that one’s sweet!)

“Look, Christie, here’s the thing. When I first met you, I was just messing around. But we’ve gotten so close that, now... I really like you! I can’t keep this up anymore. I’m not the person you think I am. I’ve been pretending since the day I met you. It’s so hard having to constantly cover my tracks to keep my story straight... and I don’t WANT to anymore! I’m tired of living this lie! I’m done with it. I’m sorry.”

he catfishes some guy to blackmail him, but is implied to continue the flirtation even after the catfishing/blackmail is revealed

reese is, technically, married to a man. this particular plot point is played as a joke and manages to be both racist and homophobic, so I won’t go into it. but I believe he is still married to that man. technically.

reese takes care of a huge box full of caterpillars until they pupate and become beautiful butterflies. I feel like there’s some kind of gay coming out metaphor here somewhere.

I think there are a couple other times where he comments on a guy’s attractiveness but I couldn’t find specific instances.

In conclusion: Reese is a deeply repressed gay kid who was socialized SO thoroughly as an early 2000′s straight boy that, despite his attraction for men and his obvious compulsory heterosexuality, he still cannot admit to himself that he is gay even as he enters adulthood. Furthermore, his subconscious frustration about this fact is turned outward to form the “schoolyard bully” costume he uses to mask his insecurities and keep others from getting too close to him. 

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. I could be convinced to come back for another talk about how Dewey is trans or about how each and every member of that family is neurodivergent in entirely different ways. Assuming anyone has read this far in the first place!!

[dooptown]

S2 Finale

for once i’m actually going to watch the episode again and get my thoughts down as i do cuz holy hell was this well done, i think

“Comet” playing first instead of the OP was brilliant. Also, as a note, the full music video of that came out, along with some killer animation inspired by the manga.

A detail i love about this music video is Ibuki spotting Free’s motorcycle light in the side mirror before he stops the car and, well, yeah

They actually show Louis reaching for his gun pretty early on into Ibuki’s monologue. I don’t think the manga showed that, but I could be wrong. He definitely has it pointed to him when it’s pitch black same at the anime, but the fact he reaches for it so early means he obviously knows what’s going on, even if he couldn’t pull the trigger.

predictably, the anime does the “darkness” as it always has, with the dark-blue background and bright lines for the characters. The Comet music video does this part of the scene better imo, but it’s not too much of an issue. Free’s whole bit is obviously rushed, and I think the anime suffers for that, but i understand that they couldn’t fit it in. We do miss him escorting Louis out of the BAM though, and also saying he’ll eat Louis if he comes back. That said, I don’t know how Louis gets back...I guess Free drives him back still but we just don’t see it

The Riz and Legosi fight has Riz getting the idea of eating Legosi in his head now that was seemingly missing before. In the manga he was thinking about how he’d become friends with Legosi by eating him, and that never came up in the anime until kinda now. Like I said before it’s an interesting part of Riz’s character so i’m glad it’s touched on a bit at least.

The moth scene is just as confusing here as it was in the manga...and without explanation or confirmation that it’s imaginary chimera (a part of the manga plot that was completely dropped), it just seems like...something. We don’t have Moth-san talking to Riz here or him questioning what he’s seeing so...it could be seen as purely metaphorical but it still remains a mystery (and just like in the manga it accomplishes nothing here cuz Riz just gets up and wails on Legosi) It looks fucking cool though! Word of Power: Respect for Life! It’s all one shot here, so we see every wound inflicted on Legosi, which is only a few slams. In the manga it’s implied he endured way more. That just follows the pattern of the anime, though, where violence is toned way the hell down. I’m not complaining, though. I don’t want to see Legosi hurt...

I knew what i was seeing when it was in motion, but damn does it look fucking good! Orange really is showing how to do CG right by properly stretching models for intense movements and actions! They’ve done this subtly before but here it’s very clear, but not distractedly so (unless you pause frame by frame) However, I still do think the models look a bit stiff when just...like...walking normally sometimes. Like we have this great fight animation but then Riz picks Legosi up and drags him a bit and he looks...off. Ah well

The whole bit about Legosi exposing his stomach doesn’t have the subtleties explained here...and really the anime leaves out a lot of character thinking but i think if they left it in it’d be a bit too hammy and crowded, so it’s fine that they cut it out. But still...tell me more pose isn’t as funny here :(

Legosi’s voice acting shines again here. He sounds really fucking hurt...

The moon cut and then them laying together is nice. Also i do like how there hasn’t been music up until this point at all. Riz talking about everything is nice too...I don’t remember him saying he feels like he could cry in the manga, due to him not remembering anything about Tem but his taste.

Legosi says: “I almost went through the same thing Riz did. If someone hadn’t snapped me out of it, my love for Haru might have made me eat her.” I recall he says something similar in the manga too...but like the only time he ever got close to eating her is when he didn’t know who she was. It really doesn’t seem like the same thing at all...it ties back into Legosi really seeming to have a really firm grasp on everything, all things considered, and he’s just selling himself short. I guess he could also be talking generally but really, he never had a moment where he wanted to eat her again after that first night. And the “someone” who snapped him out of it...Zoe???? Like, I’m just a bit puzzled on this part. I think what it really is is a reference to what he says to Louis later, how he’s the one that guided him and ensured that he is the way he is. Ensured that he did so well to begin with. Like, writing it out like that makes sense, but I guess I’m taking the words too literally.

Anyway, was typing my thoughts out there. I don’t think it’s entirely clear that Louis’s influence is what caused Legosi not to eat Haru after they started spending time together, but if Legosi says that’s what it was, that’s what it was. I felt that Louis’s guidance for Legosi was more about him accepting himself as a carnivore and using his abilities for what he believes in instead of thinking he can only do harm with them...not about controlling his meat eating instincts. I guess it kinda goes hand in hand. Anyway

The hand touch is, well, touching like it was in the manga, however Riz firmly regrasping Legosi’s hand to hoist him up and continue fighting and Legosi sounding surprised isn’t what i pictured. In the manga i saw it more as Riz slowly doing it and Legosi just being too weak to do anything about it. Riz has the advantage, so he can afford to make the action slow and deliberate

Ok here’s where things get interesting. Louis’s appearance is entirely different in the anime, whereas in the manga he appears behind Riz while Legosi is talking to him, with Legosi spotting him and using a distraction to escape with him. HERE!!! Louis actively stops Riz from attacking Legosi again, clearly out of breath as he ran all the way there, but he still has the mind to appear cool and collected and make a lil quip that pisses Riz off. And then when Riz charges him Louis is just walking calmly toward him like!

Like yeah, he does stop and react a bit, but he sees Legosi coming up to stop him so I suppose that’s why he stands his ground (honestly though was he gonna pull his gun? Did he have a plan? I feel like he just got there without one, which makes sense. He just had to stop what was happening no matter what)

And Legosi ragdolls Riz aside to protect Louis. Love wins

Pina scene is the same here. Although previously we didn’t get his thoughts about how he never wanted to get involved with carnivores ever again cuz of these two, but that ties into the whole “anime doesn’t say every single thought that’s in a character’s head like in the manga” thing. I think it’s interesting that they even bother showing him retrieving his phone from the trash bin, since he could have easily just got it from his pocket but it shows that Riz was smart enough to take it away from him (but not smart enough to destroy it or chuck it somewhere or hide it where Pina couldn’t see)

The next scene with Legosi and Louis up on the outcropping..Legosi mentions how this is his last New Year’s. He’s more convinced he’s gonna die than it seems in the manga (although depends on the subs i guess) The part where Riz is looking up while Legosi is talking about their fight to Louis...i never knew if he was supposed to be hearing that or not, here or in the manga. I guess it’s up to interpretation.

Legosi delivering this line in the manga: determined, stoic

Legosi delivering this line in the anime: clearly in love

we finally get one of these scenes for Louis! Season 1 had a few of these for Legosi and Haru when they had moments where they were deep in thought about the other. I thought that Louis’s would have been in his initial meetup with Legosi in the manga, but that scene got cut. It’s cool that they put his here, though! Also correct me if I’m wrong but I think this is the only shot like this in season 2

When Louis’s theme starts here when he’s acting strong, trying not to cry, I thought it’d slowly start to break down as he did and transition into a new track but it just kinda...keeps going. It sounds like a more somber, shaky version at the very least but I think the music at this part is a bit lacking...thankfully the animation and Louis’s voice acting more than make up for it

Boy, does Louis really cry. I’m glad they let him let loose like that but the bad thing about seeing it animated is...they don’t hug! I always wanted a hug here...one that Louis fully embraces unlike the earlier one on the balcony. It makes sense the Legosi doesn’t try to do anything and is taken aback, of course, but damn...and considering how Louis is treated later and at the end of the series...it stings a lot

Idk what to say about this scene...it’s done so well. Louis having his internal monologue, talking to Legosi...Legosi looking so damn guilty that he wants to go back and fight...the transition to the foot reveal...it’s all so good

A change here in the anime...Louis is a lot more steadfast. He offers his foot and is like, completely at peace with it. In the manga he’s still shaking and his expressions are like, more unsure, but here he seems a lot more convinced that it’s what he has to do

jeez

Legosi’s thoughts about how eating his leg feels almost ritualistic and it actually makes him desire and hunger for it is gone...which like, idk why it is. We just hear Legosi say that he wants to but we don’t feel it (we do see his lips pull back and reveal his teeth tho)

Enter: Buffgosi. This happens in the manga but since Legosi’s model is so much smaller in the anime it seems like a much more drastic difference.

intimate...

Legosi doesn’t apologize for not being able to stop growling, but it seems like they did a lot to remove any humor Paru put into these scenes. I guess it doesn’t work that well in one continuous scene vs. chapters broken up by weeks

Louis’s funny deadpool moment is changed with him just...telling Legosi to be a hero again. Guess he really likes that line. The way it’s delivered really feels like a video game, like Legosi is recovering from a hit and Louis pops in to heal him with some words

Seriously, Louis just keeps making this face...after an entire season of being super serious and stone faced he’s looking softer

the Riz and Tem story isn’t changed at all, and can still be read as either romantic or platonic. Seeing it in motion makes it hit harder though, for sure

Legosi still wishes Riz a happy new year here. He seems a lot happier here than in the manga. Also Louis doesn’t berate him for it, instead opting to speak up and talk to Riz here after hearing about his heartbreak. He does it without the pressure of the cops being there, and it truly shows that he really does like carnivores and sympathizes with their struggles now.

Yeah, so the cop scene is gone, which kinda condenses and cuts out a lot (including Pina’s small appearance) but I kinda like it better. It allows all the characters to breathe. Legosi thanks Louis naturally for the meal, and Louis telling Legosi to wipe his face is done in a friendly, joking manner...it just all feels a lot softer and friendlier without the cops being there making it all fucked. Just like in real life

THERE IT IS THERE IT FUCKING IS THEY EVEN GAVE LOUIS HIS LIL SMIRK AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

god i keep tearing up around these parts IT’S BEEN ALMOST 2 HOURS SINCE I STARTED MAKING THIS POST GOOD FUCKING LORD

I kinda thought they might put the aftermath in a sort of credits scene, and i think it works, even if it does pave over some important stuff

god it’s just so validating to see Legosi care for Louis and Haru equally. Like we all know it’s the case but they’re both dear to him

Now this is a far departure from his thoughts in the manga. I suppose it only fits with the ending of the season to make it more optimistic, but we skip the while “you can’t marry an herbivore cuz of your record” thing...but here he still cherishes it in a way. Very interesting. Wonder if they’ll backpedal on it in season 3

Legosi actually tells Haru he’s dropping out here too! He still does in the manga but it seems more abrupt there, like he already did drop out and then goes to tell her instead of telling her before he does. He’s also not suffering through his meat withdrawal here like he was in the manga at this scene (or at least the manga’s counterpart at Haru’s house)

The ending convo mirrors what Haru says to him in that scene too. It’s a funny way to leave off on the season without a stinger or anything. It just kinda makes the audience question their relationship (and now that Lougosi is pumping through everyone’s veins...hehehhehehe)

uh, well, anyway, i kinda wasted all of my time off after work writing this so...i hope you enjoyed it? Not gonna get one of these for a while...i know at least some of you like them

Also...what the hell was the extra “broadcast only” scene??????

Well, anyway, I hope you all have a good day, night, whatever, wherever you are. And remember: Legosi and Louis are in love

[that-thing-that-feeling]

Yeah the show looked v diff in the og pitch but ‘anthology’ is not the right word. An anthology series “spans through different genres, and presents a different story and a different set of characters in each episode, season, segment or short”. This was never the plan for ST. The Duffers were originally going to do a mid-season time jump à la Steven King’s IT, where the characters aged up and finished the story that way. But Netflix made them change it bc they knew the audience would fall in love with the kids and want to follow their story, which we did. Obvs a lot of things from Montauk carried on to ST - Will going missing, Jancy and prob Jopper being endgame, the demogorgon, the lab, Will’s sexuality (implied) - but lots of things are diff as well - Steve & El dying, Lucas’ last name, Jonathan riding a moped 😂 - so yeah we can’t treat that as the base of the show.

I agree s1 is the best season story-wise and character-wise since it was so much smaller and more intimate, we rlly got the time to bond with each of the characters and they all had an interesting and important part in the story. S2 and s3 were still great to me, but nothing will match s1, altho it looks like s4 might come close. All seasons since have had big problem of adding more characters that didn’t do much but bloat the story, and don’t fill any actual needs of the story. I love Max and Robin very much, but Max’s sole purpose has been to create conflict btwn party members and tie the new bad guy to the party. I love her, but in scale of things she’s never rlly been relevant to the plot herself, until finally now. And Robin was originally a love interest for Steve, a character who didn’t need a love interest and isn’t rlly relevant to the plot either. Thankfully they changed this and made a real effort to make her an interesting character you’re almost glad to sacrifice everyone else’s screen time for, but still scoops troop wasn’t srsly necessarily to plot (I maintain that Murray, Joyce, and Hopper could’ve found a way into lab without them). And now with s4, at least Argyle fulfills a real need in show, giving Jonathan a friend, but idk how any of the other teens will work, and at least it seems like they’ll find a way to tie Peter into plot since beginning. Anyway, I think there is definitely plenty material to fill 5 seasons, but ST’s problem is with every season they keep moving further away from what ppl loved abt the show when it first came out: the intimacy, the high stakes, the equal attention on all characters with everyone getting a satisfying individual arc, the focus on familial relationships, the captivating mysterious and unpredictable story. I rlly hope ppl are right that s4 has more of this stuff. I know bigger and better is ST’s motto, but just bc the story and in-universe continues to expand doesn’t mean everything else has to expand too.

Ugh so agree and all comes down to your bolded thing—part of it is they just went all in with plot and lost character moments and exactly emotionally intimate scenes, and deepening things like with family relationships. I hope s4 allows for some of that but it also has sooo much plot to fit in that I wonder if we’ll get a lot of character moments, and any evenly distributed ones

[you-are-crazy-beautiful]

S3 thoughts after complete rewatch

Please give me your thoughts and ideas. I’ll be blunt. Season 3 is bad. Really bad. There is absolutely no continuity between s2 and s3. I was joking that even though it’s meant to be set 6 months later, it could really be anytime after. I even would think I was watching an episode in the middle of a season if I was just shown 3x01 with no info. I feel that there is also a complete disregard to the tone of the show, despite Suzanne stating how it’s important to keep that. I do feel that Suzanne talks the talk more than she walks the walk. 

1.       When asked about the multiple POV Suzanne stated ‘those two women as the lynchpin relationship of the show. Their journeys are always at the spine of the story’. ‘all of them (new characters) have a really exciting energy, and really challenge the main characters’. I would argue completely against Eve and Villanelle and their relationship being the focus of this season. There are times and whole episodes when I feel there is almost a disconnect from each other. These two are absolutely, unhealthily addicted to each other. I think the amount of scenes they have together is perfect and almost the usual, but when they aren’t together, you know they are never normally far from each other’s mind. I would especially say I find it strange after V has finally got the kiss she has been waiting for 3 seasons, which would make her devotion go even more through the roof, she only has one Eve related moment (the cake) before phoning Eve after seeing each other at the train station in ep 7. They could have nearly sunk them!

·       Konstantin and Carolyn even overshadowed Eve and had more character development this season. Besides from Dasha, I would also say the new characters hardly gave anything to the plot such as Aubrey, Paul, and Geraldine. It even took me a while to remember these characters names. Paul you could take out of the season and nothing would change except that Carolyn wouldn’t have had another person to shoot in 3x08. I think Geraldine was a good character to have for Carolyn to show how she personally grieves, but why did they keep having the same scenes again and again? What the heck was that thing with Geraldine and Konstantin? I’m still unclear on how Dasha and Villanelle’s relationship came about and what happened. How old was Villanelle? How long was Dasha her mentor for? It seems like they forgot that they had Konstantin saying to V in 3x02 about Dasha doing something to her and the way Villanelle attacked Dasha upon seeing her again, that they just quickly wrote the hospital scene in 3x08. I was so confused what was happening. Did they mean Dasha shot at Villanelle because ‘she wasn’t ready’ as in emotionally or physically? Did Dasha actually manage to shoot her? Didn’t they allude to Konstantin being the one to recruit her from the prison in s1, so how did she not stay with him? How did she escape Dasha? It seemed random that Dasha just happened to die when Konstantin was there, when he said she was going to die in the hospital. I thought he had done something, but apparently not?

2. When asked what she was most excited about the audience seeing, Suzanne said Villanelle and Eve’s journey. This is her quote about Eve. ‘Similarly with Eve, we really get to see deeper layers of Eve, and her really coming to terms with the person she is now. She’s forever changed because of what happened to her and what she’s been through, and it’s really about seeing her now, this new version of herself, and her acceptance of herself, which is very exciting and really takes her into new places’. I really just have to laugh. Where is it? It is absolutely ridiculous how little Eve was developed and ignored this season. When you guys do a rewatch, I highly recommend to at least watch 2x08 before going into s3 because it really just highlights the difference and how nuts it is that they dropped Eve by so much! I really don’t understand how it’s even possible. Coming into the show there are many ways you could go wrong. However, it’s not like it’s an easy thing to cut out the lead of your show! Especially when that character had the most exciting things happen to them in the finale of s2. The things I was most excited about going into s3 was seeing how Eve was coping with knowing she has the ability to kill someone. I can’t believe they did not bring up that Eve had killed someone once in the whole of s3!!! Like @kassies​ stated, it’s like Suzanne just took one line and things she liked and disregarded everything else. Suzanne practically said in the BBC sounds podcast that she had this idea of mummy issues, which personally I don’t think there is any evidence of except the fact V is attracted to older women, like most wlw are. If anything there is more evidence she would have daddy issues with her history of castrations and the many times she comments that she finds it strange that Konstantin hasn’t tried to have sex with her. After the line ‘most of’ her family were dead she stated she could go down that route! She practically wrote the whole season just based on this. She hasn’t even taken the quote correctly, as like others have pointed out, most of her family were actually alive and it was only her dad who was dead. I loved episode 5 originally but on my rewatch with the whole season it really seemed strange. When I first watched it I thought the next episode was going to be largely devoted to Eve so I wasn’t so bothered that it was a whole V ep. However, considering Eve was hardly given anything in ep6, I really don’t see how a whole V episode was needed. The annoying thing was this season could have been the best yet. With Eve and Villanelle both discovering themselves and meeting at the end. It was that, but with hardly any Eve content and I feel they are so lucky they managed to pull it off in the last 2 eps, and that’s largely down to what s1+2 accomplished. Again, ep5 just seems like a way for Suzanne to explore her mummy issues story, as there is nothing really juicy or pivotal for the plot. Why not really show how the twelve have had their eye on V since she was little. Have the mum saying a man told her V was dead, as Konstantin did with Anna in s1? It would have added so much more to the twelve. Especially when the big thing about V this season is her wanting away from the control the twelve have on her. Why not show just how much?

I actually had no idea what Eve was thinking for most of the season and from what I do know and think is based on what I know of this character from the previous 2 seasons. Maybe this is just me not getting it, but I thought Eve was in the kitchen because she was in denial and I kept waiting for her to get a breakthrough and embrace her true self. It wasn’t until Sandra said Eve was actually showing strength by working in the kitchen, and by saying ‘no’ to working in the front, that I was like ‘oh’ that’s what it’s meant to mean. I actually feel so sad for Sandra because I can’t imagine what she must have been thinking with Eve’s treatment this season. I actually feel there are even moments in the season that delibrately stop Eve’s development. For example that lazy line of ‘lucky those tourists found you’. How? I know irl it’s a tourist attraction, but in the show they had to break into a tunnel to access it. I also don’t like the scene with Jamie. You could say it highlights the line in the finale ‘I think we all have monsters’ but I feel like it invalidates just how different Eve and Villanelle are from other people. Jamie taking his kids to the zoo when high is hardly the same as Eve hacking a man to death with an axe. 

 This is already so long, and I could go on and on, but I’m just going to point out  some issues and plot holes.

. Kenny’s death was meant to be the biggest storyline of the whole season and what got Eve back into the story. However, she only looked into his death in ep3 and never again. Carolyn didn’t even really look into his death and all we got was constant scenes with her and Geraldine. Why couldn’t we have gotten Eve and Carolyn doing real detective work like in s1 as was implied was going to happen in ep3? I don’t even feel like they actually thought through his death as it was ‘solved’ by Bear who despite apparently not thinking Kenny had commited suicide from the beginning and wanting access to his phone, apparently did not think to check a camera he had set up until weeks later?! I don’t think it’s possible Kenny fell off the roof as in ep4 when Eve chucks the cake, the wall comes up near to her chest. You could not fall off that. He also would have screamed when falling. I also don’t even know how the twelve knew Kenny was looking into the accounts. Especially if they knew Kenny was looking into it, and knew money was being taken, how did it take them so long to kill the accountant? Laura could develop this in s4, but I feel as though it was Suzanne’s job to follow through with this storyline. 

. How did Konstantin know what V looked like as a baby? Where did he see the photo? Why did they make a point to highlight that she was with someone in the photo and Konstantin really didn’t seem to want to tell her, yet the next episode he handed over her family right away? As much as I love Villanelle’s journey, on a rewatch, the family story seemed to almost come out of nowhere in ep3 and then the next episode she had the information and went home. Why not introduce the idea in ep 1?

. How would Puyter know that it was his sister? Upon immediately seeing her he knew it was Oksana. I don’t think it says how old they were, but he is younger than V, and we saw how old she was in the pics, I really don’t think he would recognise her, especially when he thinks she is dead. 

. Why is there not pictures of the dad? Even if the mum was saddened by his death as she really seemed to love him, why would she not have any photos? Also with how much she seems to be scared and despise V, why would she keep the photos of her? Did the dad die while Villanelle was still there or is she just taking he’s dead as he’s not there. I thought they were going to reveal that the dad was still alive and part of the twelve but nope.

. Why was Rhian so scared of V at the train station? I know she’s the demon with no face, but Rhian was ready to be moving into Villanelle’s shoes, and you can even see V is struggling to kill her, so why does Rhian act so scared and back herself onto the edge of the platform? That moment feels so disgenuous to me and at one point I though Rhian was acting. 

. How did Carolyn know Helene and that V was working for her? Is it a plot hole or something to be explored in s4?

. Why was Eve acting like she didn’t know Villanelle was responsible for the Catalan murder in ep4 when we know she can tell V’s kills after a sec (as seen in ep6) and even after Carolyn had shown her the photo and said it was V?

. They didn’t even seem to give much attention to Eve’s scar or wound. It was not where it was in 2x08. I know they said that they were going to move around where she had been shot, but when Suzanne was asked why the scar was different she said she wanted it to seem like Villanelle went for the kill shot, despite saying in other interviews that she doesn’t think Villanelle did try or want to kill Eve. The scar’s even so weird. I’m no expert, so that it maybe how they look, but it doesn’t even look like a bullet wound. Would the bullet not have left a round mark? 

. Why did they keep Niko around for so long? I personally loved where Emerald had taken it in 2x07 and was excited to see where Niko was. Maybe he was up for the murder of Gemma. It would have been another good opportunity to see Eve's skewed morals. A part of her being flattered that Villanelle killed Gemma as sort of revenge for stepping on Eve. Instead it got completely swept under the rug in 3x01 too by Niko saying mi6 said she killed herself. What happened? How did they find him? It doesn't even make sense now why V killed her. However, I would say there was also something symbolic about him ending up in a rehabilitation retreat because Eve and her actions has 'broken' him. It was quite powerful for his character to tell Eve he deserved better than her. Because he does. He basically told her to p*ss off there. Why make the little time Eve is being given to another ep where she chases him down, for him to get brutally attacked in a way that is so ridiculous that he would survive it borders on a soap opera. I thought the reason he survived was to give a big Eve moment of her saying her acceptance that she can't have a normal life. Instead they just had the same convo as 3x01 with him telling her to p*ss off. Then a scene with Eve looking at him and leaving. What is going on in her head? Why are you not giving her anything? We didn't even get to see her dealing with the act happening.

. This brings me onto the point of it. It could of had so much impact, yes it was cool because Eve knew it wasn't V, but there could have been so much more given to it. Such as Dasha saying to V in the lift in 3x07 about her having someone waiting for her back home, how Dasha has just destroyed the thread between the only person V cares about. It would have made V hitting her with the golf club so much more delicious.

. Villanelle saying to Konstantin that she didn't want him to die in 3x07 and looking upset. Yet in 3x08 she looks almost excited about the fact he's about to be shot?

. It also annoys me so much that Raymond was just discarded and we still know nothing about the twelve. I thought this season was really going to dive into them, but we don't know anymore about them than we did at the start of the season. After rewatching 2x08 I really wish they had explored the twelve thru Raymond. If you wanted to give Konstantin more why not have him in with the twelve and the consequences of 2x08? Raymond saying 'Some would say I'm a real somebody'. 'They will take you apart for this'. 'After today a lot of people are going to be angry'. How high was Raymond? The implications that V+E were in so much danger after killing Raymond. Then it's 6 months later and Dasha just says they've been watching V for months. Were they watching Eve? Who knows nobody cares about Eve this season😒 Why bring in new members of the twelve like Paul, make brand new stories such as Kenny's death and the money, to just kill Paul and not resolve them.

I really don't understand how the twelve haven't killed V yet. She screws up all the time from s1 onwards. I get she is amazing at her job but they have others such as Rhian. Why do they let her get away with it? It was confusing me so much this season. I thought they were going to make her dad a member of the twelve and that's how she's protected.

. The title cards and intro. By now you might all be thinking she's just tearing everything apart. Trust me, there are moments of s3 I love and that is why it's so frustrating. Laura's 3 eps are some of my fave of the show so fingers crossed that means good things for s4. I felt she grasped the original tone of the show. So speaking of staying true to the show, I don't understand why they were changing the format of the title cards. Sometimes it was funny 'p*ss off forever' and 'this is bullshit'. Yet, it also really threw me off because it's not what usually happens. I'm all for new things being tried, yet I actually find myself questioning what wasn't changed and what was kept original? The names coming up in 3x04...I can't even. This is more of a personal take as I know some people really liked them, but when it was coming up 'Eve' I was just sitting there thinking 'I know that's Eve. I've been watching her for 3 years'.

Why was there only a title sequence in 2 episodes? Suzanne got asked and said that it was only ep2 and ep7 that felt right. I mean...I'm pretty sure it could have worked in all of them. I loved the title sequences so much, and was so excited when that drop fell and they started in ep2. Then I was so confused when none of the next ones had it. Episode 7 is one of my favourite episodes of the whole show, and that title sequence is just *chef's kiss*. My point really is that it came across to me as an experiment as they only did certain things in one episode and never again, and it made me uncomfortable.

[lordeasriel]

I really care about your opinion, how do you feel about the bbc show and the way it's going?

I feel like before I give my take, I need to say that I understand the show is its own thing, and while I do wish they did a better job adapting certain things, I understand that sometimes there is a need for radical change or cut, especially when your budget is not super high (which HDM does have a lot of money into it, still is not a super big budget production, so they have to worry about these things). And I do enjoy many things about the show, but my overall vibe is mixed, to be honest. I’m stating this now because people often question whether I like the show or not, becaus I do criticise it a lot, and I simply have a critic view of the things I like, which is why I discuss them a lot and it can be overwhelming.

My main issues with the show are these 3 things: (which I’ll put under the cut because this got a bit longer than I wanted to lmao sorry)

Lack of worldbuilding and loose lore: I’ve been talking about this since day one, and this mostly applies to season 1 because I can’t judge season 2 yet because it’s not fully aired yet, but the show suffers from lack of worldbuilding, especially in Lyra’s world, which is the world that sets everything in motion. I still dislike the fact they introduced Will mid-NL, I don’t think he needed all those episodes to establish something that easily could’ve been done in S2 and because they gave TSK a lot of time, other parts of Lyra’s world suffered considerably, mainly the witches and the Magisterium.

The show doesn’t really expand on those two groups, especially, and I think that’s not good, especially the Magisterium (which they have over simplified by making it one big baddie, or so it seems at least, not to mention that implying a single leader for them practically ruins Marcel Delamare’s arc in TBOD and I’m very mad about that lmao). A lot of the Magisterium plot has that infighting aspect, which creates tension on their side as well as against their enemies, but the show doesn’t really explore that or the nuances of the Church, and they also don’t explore how varied the witches are, and I feel like this is a serious mistake. (The portrayal of the witches is by far my least favourite thing in the show, if I’m being honest).

Dull parallel world (and lack of daemons): this ties a bit with the worldbuilding aspect, but this is mainly about design choices. I think the show doesn’t make Lyra’s world as unique as it should be. On its own the world looks pretty and the outfits of most of the cast are great, but when you realise that Will’s world is intertwined with that, you don’t really feel like these two worlds are vastly different.

There is an odd situation in which Marisa’s fashion feels 30s/40s, but most of the men from her social circle (not fair to compare with the gyptians) just wear plain suits and they look much more modern. And while I get that they went for a timeless vibes, with different eras and styles, Lyra’s world feels like a caricature and it doesn’t feel believable. The colour palette is mostly the same for both worlds (even in s2, it’s hard to tell much of the difference because either the scenes are indoors or at night.) This, paired with the lack of daemons (which has been discussed many times in the fandom) kinda bums me out.

Marisa’s oversimplification: I’m mentioning Marisa, specifically, because she is the one that suffers the most due to this writing issues, but other characters like Lord Asriel, MacPhail, the general collective of the Witches, they all suffer from the writing trying to take away the nuances of them and make them flatter than in the book. Marisa is the worst because without her complexity and her flaws, she simply gets dull and boring and flavourless, and it’s kinda what has been happening in the show in my opinion. All she does is weep and she has no strength that doesn’t rely on a random fit of rage that dies out and she gets upset. There’s some great moments, like when she mimics the Monkey, but most of the time she’s just a shadow of who she is supposed to be.

The show tries really hard to make her a Scorned Mother - right from the get go, they try to makes us see how she wants Lyra, how she struggles with her “bad nature” and how that affects their relationship. There is this lingering implication that Lyra was taken from her against her wishes; they make it seem like being a mother to Lyra is her driving force, the only reason why she seeks power and influence. And that is the opposite of Book! Marisa, who is a force of nature, ruthless and ambitious, with not an ounce of maternal instinct.

She does eventually decide to help Lyra, instead of harming her, but even that action comes from a narcisistic place: Lyra is to her a possession, something that belongs to her, and that she wants to preserve. The show just handles her badly, falling into overused, boring tropes that struck far from the book version.

These are usually my main complaints about the show, and they upset me every episode to the point I’m practically ignoring them now lmao The show does a lot of good things too, making Will less of a prick, restoring Lyra’s personality from the first book into S2 Lyra (so far, please keep it that way), Mary is looking great too. They have mostly a great cast, and they did improve the daemons this season (except uh, there are far less daemons to show because of the other worlds - and the Ruta Skadi daemon change pisses me off tbh).

They do have a lot of interest in the show, but the writing (the main issue to me) feels clunky and childish, with the show toning down most of the themes that make His Dark Materials so special, especially to me (which frankly I expected them to do, but it still stings a bit). They make the Magisterium a single bad entity that feels more Authoritarian-Fascist, than a theocracy (even if they sneak in the religious symbols and rituals and garments, it’s just not a good portrayal, it’s very tame and shy); and they try to justify Marisa’s actions (especially in current interviews, there’s lots of talk about how her background will play in the show to “explain why she is the way she is”). The fact the Magisterium is portrayed as pure evil makes it looks less familiar than it should be, and therefore they don’t look scary, they seem like a caricature, a joke.

A lot of the essence of the characters get lost, and the core message of the story too, like when Iorek and the Gyptians tell Lyra she can be one of them, to support her lack of “proper family”, when that is the opposite of the books message. It doesn’t make sense for them to change that, other than maybe Jack Thorne wanted to because it makes the story feels less hopeless, but it’s why he fails to adapt these character - he doesn’t capture the essence, he tries to write these character with gaps in them.

However, the thing that annoys me the most is how they portray Asriel. It’s just... it’s bad. Really bad, which is a shame cause James is talented as fuck, but he had little time to film for season 1, and then they portrayed him very poorly. That scene when he addresses Roger in episode 7 is ridiculous, Asriel would never behave that way; there was relief in him finding Roger was there too, yes, but not to that extent and not in such a cringe way. Asriel is not deranged or irrational, he is a man on a mission, and Roger was a tool (there is no pleasure in Asriel taking his life and no excuses - it needed to be done and he did it); they just needed him to sound creepy in the show for whatever reason.

I hated how they handled the bridge scene for Asriel, Lyra and Marisa, but that’s long and complicated for me to explain here. In S2, there has been some mentions of him so far, including the implication he might have ruined Cittàgazze himself and I frankly don’t understand where did they get that idea. But the cherry on the top was Thorold telling Marisa that Asriel was gonna kill Lyra and that’s just-- that’s so dumb. That’s genuinely dumb writing, because Thorold knows Lyra followed Asriel to the mountain, and while I do believe Asriel would have killed Lyra if Roger wasn’t there, there is no way Thorold should know or consider that Asriel was gonna hurt Lyra, because Roger was there. In fact, Thorold’s interactions with Asriel in episode 8 already disprove this, so either Thorold was lying in S2 for the sake of, I don’t know, chaos or whatever, or the person who wrote this was a five-star, solid gold, fucking moron.

I’m not gonna mention the lost episode because that was no one’s fault, but the fact that they discarded an episode that all information we have on imply that it was important to set up the backstory of the angels and the city, it’s... concerning. It means they wrote something parallel that should’ve been woven into the season.

The truth is, I still watch the show on Sundays, and I still like some stuff they do (especially Mary’s stuff, so far), and despite me slandering the show per your request anon lol (cause unfortunately my honest opinion is mixed, I just don’t try to overfocus on the negative on Tumblr, I mostly talk about it on discord or private), I do think anyone who has read the books should watch the show.

For me, personally, everything I love about HDM is barely on the show - complex characters, the philosophy, the oppression by religion, the interesting world - and the vibe I get is that they’re adapting a coming-of-age love story, which is the last and - being fully honest - the least important message these books give us, but unfortunately they were set to making a family show from the start, and my expectations were high and unmatched, and a family is what we’re getting: toned down, cute, pretty visuals and soulless (heh, pun intended), philosophically speaking. I expect a certain pattern going into S3, but I always like to hold out hope that they will hire better writers (apparently Jack Thorne already wrote 4 scripts, so there you go lmao), and try to give HDM the adaptation it deserves. The truth is, if you’re a picky, canon reliant person like I am, the show might be a struggle, but if you just like the story for the teen romance, or if you don’t care about overthinking a show/book, then most people can have a good time with it.

[nikibogwater]

Niki Blethers about The Mandalorian S2: ep 7

Spoilers below the cut!

*inhale*

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

DANK FERRIK THIS WAS THE EPISODE I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR HOLY CRUDMUFFINS

I said last week that the series has been struggling to hold my interest this season. I haven’t been super active in the fandom, and I was just overall a lot less invested in the characters/plot than I was for season 1. I was never quite able to pinpoint exactly why until this episode.

The reason I started losing interest in the show was because the show had started losing interest in Din. For several episodes, the plot was mainly focused around finding the Jedi, learning about the Force, uncovering all these Imperial baddies. The show was always at its most interesting to me when the typical Star Wars stuff took a back seat to Din’s personal story, and this season was not letting that happen as often as I would’ve liked. 

But with “The Believer,” everything is solidly fixed on Din and his personal goal: get his son back. It also takes a good hard look at Din’s Creed and the Way of his tribe, which is a unique and interesting aspect of Star Wars lore that I’ve been slavering to learn more about. 

I’ve seen a lot of people saying they want Din to abandon his religion, take off his helmet and be “free” or whatever, and while I understand that there are definitely religious sects out there that champion very toxic and damaging ideas, Din’s Way never felt either of those things to me. It is centered on personal sacrifice for the protection of your tribe and your honor, but at no point was it ever implied that Din was forced into this, or that he regrets swearing the Creed. He even says that nothing bad happens to you if you break the Creed--you just can’t ever take it up again once you’ve made that choice. “Sanctuary” implied that there are times when he is tempted to leave it behind and live “normally,” but he chooses to resist that urge of his own volition, because he believes in the importance of what he’s doing. 

There has been a lot of helmet-removal foreshadowing in this season, and I was starting to get very concerned about the direction the writers were going in regards to Din’s Creed. I am absolutely 100% completely biased as a religious person myself, so this probably isn’t an objective viewpoint, but I think as long as your beliefs do not require you to intentionally harm other people (either physically or emotionally), it should be socially acceptable for people to believe whatever they choose. To practice any traditions they like, even if they seem weird and restrictive, as long as they are doing it by their own choice. I know this is hard for a lot of people to believe (especially in this country) but many people find a somewhat ironic sense of fulfilment in making personal sacrifices for a higher ideal. And DIn has been shown to take comfort from his Creed and the identity it gives him, and has never expressed anything more than passing wistfulness at the thought of living differently--not bitterness or resentment, simply a “Oh. Yes, that would be nice. But I’m still sticking to my guns here.”

So with all that being said...Holy crap, I love how this episode forced him to break his creed and sacrifice his identity. The show has hammered it into our heads since day one: Din’s most valued part of himself, the thing that he loves enough to die for, is his identity as a Mandalorian and follower of the Way. Din taking off his helmet was not an act of rebellion--it was truly a sacrifice, the greatest sacrifice he could ever make. Din has been shown to be pretty nonchalant about dying, but losing who he is, the code that has shaped him and guided his life--to him, that is so much worse than death. And before Grogu, I don’t think there was anyone or anything that could make him willingly give it up. 

Also MAJOR Kudos to Pedro Pascal for his acting in that whole scene. The guy has already been a god of the recording booth throughout this entire series, but his physical performance during this pivotal moment in Din’s arc was just 👌👌👌 Every swallow, every muscle twitch, every eye movement was clearly very intentional, and even though Din was forced to keep a straight face and pretend this was perfectly normal, the small subtleties of Pascal’s acting clearly communicated that Din was breaking inside. 

ALSO HI, HELLO, WHILE WE’RE ON THE TOPIC OF CHARACTER GROWTH, THREE CHEERS FOR MY BOI MAYFELD

You know, my mother pointed out, the first time she watched “The Prisoner,” that Mayfeld wasn’t quite on the same level of malice as the other antagonists. She picked up that there was a spark of morality somewhere in him. I didn’t think much of it other than “oh cool, different flavors of Evil in the villain squad” but hot DANG they really were teasing his redemption arc from the get-go. 

Also Mayfeld being his snarky, irritating self, spewing about the faulty logistics of a religion he doesn’t actually know anything about, trying to goad Din into showing his face, was such a perfect backdrop to his reaction to Din removing his helmet. Like, just seeing him realize what Din’s creed means to him, seeing this cold-hearted bastard have genuine compassion and jump in to help out his bro--just, tres magnifique.

Din and Mayfeld were obviously the stand-out characters here, everybody else was just kind of there, but that was fine. I like that Din and Cara have a few moments of silent communication, where they just look at each other intently, and nobody goes “Alright, break it up lovebirds.” Yes. Please normalize platonic relationships being just as emotionally intense and full of trust as romantic ones.

I still don’t understand why Boba Fett and Fennec are so dead-set on helping Din, but I’m totally okay if they all come out of this as Found Family. Please give me Din bickering with his sassy assassin sister while Boba yells from the front seat “WILL YOU KIDS SHUT UP, I’M TRYING TO FLY, HERE.” 

Also Fennec and Cara are Sharpshooting Sisters now, and no, you cannot change my mind, they are BFFs and they probably get into bar fights together and talk about guns.

Finally, let’s talk about the final scene (the one that broke me). “You may think you have some idea of what you are in possession of, but you do not. Soon, he will be back with me. He means more to me than you will ever know.” EXCUSE ME FOR JUST A SECOND

*screams in Found Family*

So, everything about Din’s threat message to Gideon is perfect. Not only is he forcefully reversing their roles so that now Din is the hunter and Gideon is the prey, but he alters Gideon’s own words in order to communicate something really important. Din doesn’t say “Soon, he will be mine.” He doesn’t think of Grogu as an asset to be possessed. Grogu is only his in the sense that Din needs to protect and nurture him, but no one owns the child. 

Also AAAAAAAAAH DIN STRAIGHT-UP PUBLICLY ACKNOWLEDGING THAT HE LOVES HIS SON, I AM FREAKING OUT, IT’S EVERYTHING I WANTED

I am pumped for the conclusion to this season now. I don’t think I’ve been this excited for a new episode in...ever. “The Believer” gets a solid 10/10 from Niki, if for no other reason than because it actually made me want to read Mandalorian fics again. Ahhhh I feel my passion for this series returning to me...it is Well and Good.

[darlinique]

[elliot voice] Jesus Fucking Christ

ah. This Shit, finally. some (MANY) robo-thoughts that aren’t all Joaks regarding 4x02, for the sake of my own organization and mapping bc *mcdonald corporate overlord jingle* I’m Losin’ It. so let’s just get this started:

1. another alter confirmation! huh. i know this one has long been theorized & i always looked at the evidence as subjective, but it’s definitely concrete now. nice work to anyone who called it early 🤙🤙 with this in mind though, we can comb back over the series to examine places where this alter may have fronted without us being aware at the time. i haven’t rewatched yet (gotta get on that), but from what i can remember, there’s certain interactions that stick out.

so, this is about to be my pepe silvia moment.

of course, the most notable is when tyrell recited the red wheelbarrow poem after his confrontation with robot in the car. whoever he was speaking to at that moment and whoever told him he wasn’t seeing what was above him definitely wasn’t elliot or robot—elliot has no recollection of the meeting at all, and robot demanded to know what the fuck tyrell was talking about in the arcade when he brought that exchange back up. plus, the demeanor of whoever was fronting was just...entirely different from what we’ve seen of both elliot and robot.

elliot takes on a similar demeanor when he berates bill harper in season 1. now i have to wonder, was this really elliot talking down to bill, or did this other alter front to handle it? if this were the other alter, theoretically, it makes me wonder why he’d front here. or why he fronted around tyrell...or why he wanted to name stage 2 after the poem tyrell recited. i don’t think i can fully place his intentions.

the halloween scene where darlene asks elliot to put on the mr robot jacket and mask, and elliot, under the mask, begins to calmly explain his ideas that eventually led to 5/9. this was framed as robot fronting before—maybe even the first time robot fronted—but...maybe it wasn’t even robot? i also have to remember that at the end of s1, robot begs elliot to not let darlene & angela get rid of him “again.” so robot seems to have existed for a while, and elliot can’t remember it? i’m assuming he was dormant? then maybe it was the birth of this other alter? but regarding another theory i’ll mention later, that doesn’t correlate. my god, So Much Is Happening.

the flashback where edward alderson (presumably) dies and young elliot leaves his body behind in the lobby to go sit in the movie theater. that kid wasn’t acting like the elliot we’ve known over the series. if this is actually that alter fronting, then how long has he existed? and who was the imaginary friend he was talking to in the theater? or was this elliot, and maybe he was seeing the alter as he “sees” robot beside him? who knows anymore!

2. this is all especially so tricky because while some instances are more definitive than others (i would consider the initial red wheelbarrow scene a definite instance of this alter fronting), i can’t actually place For Certain if these other speculations are true or not. because i can’t be positive about who was fronting when in light of the reveal, i can’t actually pin down...much of anything about the alter. we know he didn’t care much about vera returning. he’s calm and not reactive, sure. but what does he want? and what’s he been doing? (and if the speculations i brought up are correct, it seems to lean toward supporting that this alter may have more sinister intentions...? sinister as in: trying to keep the current, unfortunate status quo. or maybe he’s just handling dirty work to protect elliot? and what’s his deal with tyrell+the poem? more about that last one later, i guess.)

3. there are still several unaccounted for time periods that elliot has lost. the month between seasons 3 & 4 (during which darlene told the alter about vera), the month(?) after shayla died, and the three days after irving+the dark army took tyrell. we know this alter definitely fronted at some point between s3 & s4 based off of what darlene said, but was he ever in control during these other periods? was it robot? a combination? i’m stressing myself out trying to place these, lol.

4. but, regarding the reveal, i’d also like to think about what sam said this “twist” leads to, and that is a plotline that he’s called surprising but inevitable, and one that should feel earned. the word inevitable catches my attention most out of these, because that implies that whatever’s coming has been built up for the whole series—which is something else that sam has confirmed. sam has also said that while knows third alter theories have existed, he hasn’t seen anyone figure it out entirely. a lot of people on the subreddit jumped on the bandwagon again that the third alter was tyrell (and even more people gave them hell for it, lol) due to the end scene being in his meeting room from s1, but this theory can’t be true. not only because it’s been guessed multiple times (and sam said that the truth hasn’t been guessed), but because of other reasons that just don’t line up.

some include the fact that tyrell and elliot were separated on the FBI board in s2, the fact that elliot was in jail while the general public was searching for tyrell (the world would know if The Most Wanted Man were in prison), tyrell being in hiding when elliot was stopping the NY building from blowing up (prior to the 71 ecorp buildings attack), just...many, many things. tyrell is indisputably his own person.

going from there, the alter can’t be angela or darlene, either. these have both also been previously guessed, and the timelines just wouldn’t make sense. they all have definitely been in different places at different times, doing different things. i’ve seen people suggest (following 4x02) that the alter may be leon, but that also can’t be true, because trenton & mobley would’ve recognized him as elliot, and trenton trusted elliot enough to send him the backup email. and i really, really don’t believe she knew about elliot’s DID. vera is most likely not the alter either, because he had a plotline that involved his brother (and why would darlene tell vera she saw vera? that’s pretty convoluted).

5. so, if i’m trying to determine who this alter might be, i think it would require another examination of the season 1 dream sequence. i’m pretty sure that’s still applicable, and it’s really the only thing i think i can still turn to, lol. in the dream, angela tells elliot that he was only born a month ago. i have to consider that maybe this new alter may have been the original host, and who we know as elliot is an alter who only came about at the beginning of the show, or a bit prior to it, chronologically. that might make sense, but then...if this alter who seems to be very different than the elliot we know was fronting for almost every other moment of elliot’s life, why don’t darlene or angela notice a difference in elliot in s1 if a new alter is fronting? basically, there’s a lot to consider with all of this. the dream sequence can be read a whole bunch of different ways, and honestly, i still don’t even know what the key is supposed to symbolize for sure. so this is also speculation, obviously.

6. a theory that seems to have gained traction on reddit is that elliot’s online alias, sam sepiol, may have more to do with him than we think. people have suggested that this new alter has existed for a long time and was probably created due to a childhood trauma that elliot has repressed regarding someone named sam. in s2, elliot does say he had a friend named sam as a child, but as far as i recall, this is the only mention of sam outside of elliot’s online presence (and the scene with bill, obviously). while this makes logical sense for why elliot could have developed DID, i don’t really think there’s been much hinting at him having childhood trauma revolving around some kid he knew / a friend he had? because esmail said this plot should feel inevitable, it just makes me wonder. i don’t think a reveal like this would feel like it was coming, or as if it’s been “earned.” but it still does make some sense! i would just need to see more evidence. maybe that rewatch will help.

7. a reveal that i think would feel “earned” would be that the audience that elliot speaks to may be this alter. or, that we are the alter, who have been watching this show. because of how ingrained elliot’s narration has been in the style of the show itself, that could definitely be a big move—revealing that elliot hasn’t been talking to us, but to another alter. there’s a hole in this theory, though, because both elliot and robot were unaware of this alter’s presence (evident by their reactions at the end of 4x02). maybe esmail could justify that elliot hasn’t realized he’s been talking to another alter? hmm. this one is up in the air, too.

8. so, going back to the end of 4x02 regarding elliot’s alters...why was the young version of him in the room tyrell brought elliot to in s1? and in the same chair? is it symbolic of a higher power—those who play god, elliot once said?—or does it have to do with tyrell specifically? i want to say it’s symbolic, but tyrell’s impact seems to have some weird role in this. again, why did this alter we’re being introduced to front after the confrontation in tyrell’s car, just to listen to his desperate ramblings & admissions and then tell tyrell to see what’s above him? doesn’t that seem religious in nature, parallel to how tyrell’s love of elliot is pseudo-religious? is this exchange why tyrell’s love of elliot manifested in such a pseudo-religious manner? and why again did this alter choose to name stage 2 after the poem tyrell shared with him? i initially assumed it was to mock him, but from what i recall, tyrell seemed genuinely touched by the gesture in season 3. so, i guess what i’m trying to figure out is: what does this alter want with tyrell?

(broke theory: this alter recalls elliot’s initial trauma that led to his DID and empathizes with tyrell sharing a memory that’s affected his psyche for all his adult life;

woke theory: the alter just has a crush on tyrell and is acting out for his attention)

9. i’m not sure...with any of this, i guess. i’m really just not sure! like i said, this post is just an amalgam of Thoughts that have been nagging at me. hopefully the next few episodes will help me start to put more pieces of this whole puzzle together. and, uh, that rewatch too, of course.

10. so, onto another topic: whiterose! and her plan! someone on reddit came up with a theory i think makes a lot of sense, if it hasn’t hit the nail on the head entirely: she’s collecting everyone’s private & personal data around the world because she’s making a virtual reality. Of Reality. she’s creating a digital copy of everything & everyone who’s existed in the world to shape as she sees fit. maybe with some wacky, illegal technology. don’t know why the congo is necessary for that, though. anyways, angela claims to have seen this project, and angela also claimed that she knew there was a way to take this project away from whiterose. i think this theory is a good mix of both sci-fi & being realistic. or, realistic in the sense that a major antagonist could have it as her monumental Moment Of Evil trump card. i’d love to see how close this idea is to the actual plan that’s happening on the show. i thought it was a good guess, at least.

11. just a general comment, but i’m so glad darlene played a bigger role in this episode. i love seeing her and elliot work together, and while i’m also worried for her safety, it’s good to have her in on the plan. literally, my greatest priority for the end of the series is that her and elliot are safe, lol. and preferably happy. maybe that last one is a stretch, but... i’d really, really just like to see the aldersons survive and come out on top.

12. that’s enough yelling, right? right. wow, i’ve spent a lot of time trying to organize everything i’ve been feeling. lol. UH, ANYWAYS THOUGH—if anyone has any other theories to discuss that i haven’t mentioned (and you want to discuss them, of course)—just let me know!!! i’m so stressed! i love & hate the Thinking this show requires! Oh, Boy! but thanks to anyone who made it through this XOXO. ur sacrifice of time will be remembered...by me, and not whiterose. el oh el.

13. and remember 2 Keep it 💯

[chercher0w0]

A Discovery of Witches - Show vs Book - 1

If you don’t want to read this long rambling mess of thoughts, I’d say that, in summary, the show and book are great complements for each other. As usual, I would say that it’s best to read the books first and get all the plot through Diana’s POV, as well as more of her inner thoughts. Then, follow up with watching the show to see the other supporting characters more fleshed out, as well as, in general, be able to get solid visualizations of the places, people and magic in the story.

Goes without saying that under the cut there are spoilers for the whole of ADOW S1, as well as mild spoilers for Book 2 and 3, especially at the end where I speculate about Season 2 =w= (( for more ADOW and bishmont feels, my fandom trash site is @cherchersketch. Once S2 is out, I’ll probably throw my episodic book vs show ramblings there ))

Opening

In lieu of some sort of opening song, every episode starts with these words, as well as Matthew’s voiceover, ending with him reciting a phrase that his father once said, “In every ending, there is a new beginning”. It’s interesting because in the book, the titular phrase “ A Discovery of Witches” only appears towards the end as Diana is trying to find out more about Ashmole 782. The mention of Phillipe’s words don’t even show up until near the very end of the second book, Shadow of Night. It is an intriguing way to get viewers interested in the show though. From the very first episode, it’s speculated that Ashmole 782 contains the origins of all 3 types of creatures, vampires, daemons, and witches. It is also reminiscent of Matthew’s speech in episode 2 that only two emotions keep the world turning, desire and fear. The title cards confirm that that is true, Ashmole 782 does, at the very least, contains the origin of witches and their first spells. Especially since, in the actual scene where, in the book, Diana sees those words scrawled on a piece of paper, together with one of the missing Ashmole 782 pages as well as a letter from her parents. Instead of the letter and this phrase, the show uses the house as the expository catalyst instead. In episode 8, Diana only receives the missing page. The house shows, through some sort of flashbacks, more or less what the letter states. It’s one of the many ways the show writers really did a great job changing details so the exposition can be shown, instead of just told outright.

Opening Scene

Honestly, when I first read the book, I was surprised how different the very beginning is. As usual, the main point for switching things around is to be able to organically show and gradually introduce viewers to the world of the series.  From Matthew’s opening dialogue, which is the very first shot we see as well as the first dialogue we hear for this and every episode,  “Once the world was full of wonders but it belongs to humans now. We creatures have all but disappeared. Daemons, vampires and witches hiding in plain sight, fearful of discovery, ill at ease even with each other.” it immediately lets us know how this world is different from ours, the existence of these three types of supernatural creatures, as well as their hostile attitude towards each other. 

It also shows us Diana not having complete control of her powers, accidentally activating them in public. And most importantly, establishes the magic of the book, Ashmole 782. I love the shot of the librarian not finding it initially, then suddenly seeing it in the empty spot as she’s walking back with the rest of Diana’s requested books.  In the actual book, it directly opens with Diana having Ashmole 782 in front of her, a brief description of it, and then a bunch of exposition about herself, her parents and her powers. 

Bishmont

Another thing that surprised me, how they changed many scenes to have more Diana x Matthew scenes. Because lbr, we all know what sells. Haha. 

From the very first time they meet, the scene in the book and TV show are very different. Also, quite understandably, due to the differences a more visual medium like TV has versus a book which can more easily describe stuff that can’t be shown.  In the book, Diana has slightly more control over her powers, in that she vaguely knows it just takes a bit of desire, so to retrieve the book she needs, she just imagines the book in her hand and it flies there. She only realizes that Matthew is also there, noticing her use of magic, because as a witch she can feel when the different types of creatures are looking at her, so she feels his stare as cold spots in her back. In the show, Diana’s grasp of her powers are weaker and more erratic, so the book she hopes to get instead flys off the shelf and lands in Matthew’s hands. 

In the book, Matthew’s initial realisation of his craving for Diana is much more reserved than in the show, though it’s through similar catalysts. On the show, we get that scene of Matthew sniffing Diana’s dropped sweater and just barely being able to control his predatory instincts, prompting him to momentarily run to Scotland to hunt. In the book, a similar thing happens, in that Diana leaves her sweater in his car from being driven home from yoga. It’s implied he got a similar reaction to her scent, though he only tells Diana about it later on, once he’s returned from Scotland.

Another beautifully added scene is the one before the dinner Diana invites Matthew to. In the book, it goes as expected. On the show, the addition of Peter Knox barging in beforehand to harass Diana, leading to Matthew rushing in with vampiric speed to stare down Knox is gr9 because there can never be enough growly protective Matthew scenes.

One aspect of Matthew’s initial stalking of Diana that I feel the show really improved on over the books, is when he breaks into Diana’s room to find Ashmole 782. On the show, he takes advantage of the fact that Diana is out rowing to look through her room to find it. In the book, he just creaks in while she’s sleeping and even makes sure she stays asleep by feeding her his blood. Kind of approaching Twilight’s Edward level of creepiness, though at least it’s more of a means to an end instead of some weird desire to watch Diana while she’s asleep.

Since they don’t usually show the whole thing on TV, unless it has a higher rating, I didn’t really catch on that they haven’t fully done the nasty at this point. Only realized it when I read that Matthew is specifically refusing to go all the way (for now. Until we learn why in Book 2 ;w;) and on a rewatch saw that yea, he’s just... using his hand or his mouth :x 

One thing I do enjoy in the books over the show is that there’s more time for Diana and Matthew’s relationship to slowly develop. When I first watched it, it felt a bit too fast to be honest, though I did still enjoy the chemistry between Matthew Goode and Teresa Palmer, and a lot of the bishmont scenes were  🔥 🔥 🔥 It was pretty obvious that a lot of scenes had to be cut out to fit everything into the 8 episodes.  In the book, though they’ve also known each other in the same short amount of time, but the way Diana and Matthew’s feelings for each other gradually develop through several dates and yoga lessons (OMG the yoga) makes it seem less Insta-lovey. 

Diana

As I stated at the beginning, the book and the show complement each other. On the show, Diana is shown as being extremely athletic, often rowing by herself or going for a run. It doesn’t really seem to have much significance other than showing that Diana has hobbies outside of her academic work and occasionally providing an excuse for her to be alone so she can be snatched up (yes we know the scene I’m talking about). In the book, there is actually an explanation for it. We are told that Diana’s power incontinence leads to a build up of adrenaline which leads to her panic attacks, an unfortunate effect of the spellbinding on her. To work off the excess adrenaline, she turns to sport as she hates having to rely on medication to regulate it.  Also, as previously mentioned, book!Diana seems to have a bit more “control” over her powers whereas TV!Diana does’t seem to at all. She also seems to have more of a witch’s power for the third eye, seeing visions when she looks at certain objects, like Matthew’s armour. 

Matthew

I would say the main difference between book!Matthew and TV!Matthew is his anger management. From Diana’s description in the book, in the beginning Matthew seems to have an extremely quick temper, being able to go from calm to furious in a matter of seconds, even over seemingly small matters. Later on, it is revealed that he has an inherited blood rage problem. But without knowing that, initially it just seems like a red flag issue and someone Diana should avoid. On the show, Matthew Goode portrays a Matthew (Clairmont) that is always tightly in control of himself, but not necessarily with a hair trigger fuse. His bursts of violence only appear when Diana is threatened so it seems more justified to the viewer.  And book!Matthew’s eyes do the thing where they go all black when he’s in the throes of a blood rage. I’m interested to see how it will be portrayed on the show in the next 2 seasons. Honestly, TV!Matthew never seemed overtly prone to anger like in the books. Just the “usual” overprotective vampire growling and fighting. Guess we’ll have to see how the show is gonna portray it because it’s a pretty major point conflict in the relationship in book 2 and 3.

A bit of a minor detail but in the book, it is shown how impressive Matthew’s academic career is since his living quarters are in an exclusive area of the campus, as befitting his title as one of the very few with an All Souls scholarship. 

Gillian (and her friendship with Diana)

Book!Gillian is a bit more of a throwaway character than TV!Gillian. Book!Gillian seems to be more of a casual acquaintance to Diana, just another one of the Oxford area witches trying to get her to join the local coven. I like the modification in the series where they made her a closer friend to Diana. It gives a greater impact when Gillian ends up betraying Diana’s trust, spilling the secrets Diana thought were safe with a friend to Peter Knox. It amplifies the feeling of loneliness and isolation that Diana goes through when she learns there is no one in Oxford she can really trust, other than Matthew even though she’s only just gotten to know him.  She is also portrayed as slightly more sympathetic on the show. In the book, she is just an example of the many witches in the area who despise other creatures, and thus looks down on Diana for fraternizing with a vampire. This disdain, plus her ambition to be a part of the congregation, leads her to doing Peter Knox’s dirty work, like breaking into Matthew’s lab and sending Diana the gruesome photos of her dead parents. On the show, she seems to have more of a timid personality, making her a bit of a doormat that is easily manipulated by Knox. She is also given a lower position, still being unable to qualify for tenure while Diana is one of the youngest to have done so at Yale, giving Gillian a bit of an inferiority complex. This makes it easy for Knox to feed her lies about Diana using her powers for her own academic gain, leading Gillian to carry out Knox’s dirty work in order to gain more of a status in her witchy community.

It’s also an interesting detail that later on, when Matthew sucks her blood as payback for breaking into his lab, on the show it’s presented more as him wanting to know what Gillian has seen and how much she was able to report to Knox. It kind of implies that the extra blood loss that lead to her death might have been due to her dragging herself all the way to the house of the coven leader, at least, that’s how I saw it. Matthew later on even mentions that he didn’t mean to kill her. In the book, since we’re not really shown the scene, it is just mentioned that Matthew sucked her blood and killed her for revenge.  Since Matthew is one of the two main leads, and Gillian was a closer friend of Diana’s than in the book, it makes sense they would want to tone down the extent of Matthew’s culpability while still having Gillian end up dead. 

Marcus (and his children. Or lack thereof)

There’s a bit more of Marcus in the show than the book, which is nice. We see book!Miriam more in the beginning since she’s the one who guards over Diana in the Bodleian on Matthew’s behalf. Understandable as being Matthew’s lab assistant gives her access to the same areas in Oxford, unlike Marcus who works somewhere else. I liked the added interaction of Marcus and Diana where she asks him what food to prepare for her dinner date with Matthew, in exchange for letting him and Miriam draw her blood. It’s a cute scene. 

We are first shown that vampires are increasingly failing to sire by TV!Marcus failing to save his friend, James. They then analyse his blood, proving that he has the same genetic markers as other cases of failed sires. In the books, it’s just a vague mention of it happening to other vampires. The show kind of gave me the impression that it was the first time Marcus had tried siring but in the books, he has a whole family of children in New Orleans. I’m curious how the show will incorporate that then, since they’re sort of an important plot point for certain events, especially in Book 3.  Also, the point that Marcus attempted to sire James without asking for his permission first brings to mind Matthew’s previous siring of Cecilia that led to her suicide. It’s not given a huge emphasis on the show though it comes up twice, so having read the book Matthew’s anger at Marcus siring James without asking for permission is an extra D:

Pacing and plot changes The biggest difference between the book and the show, is that the book is written in a first person limited style, from Diana’s POV, with a smattering of third person limited chapters to show some scenes where Matthew is away from Diana. The show show employs more of a third person omniscient style. From the start, we are shown all the members of the Congregation, as well as other characters that loom in the background, slowly closing in on our main characters. It’s less of a jarring experience when certain events occur. 

Satu In the show, we are shown from the beginning how Peter Knox recruits her into the Congregation, as someone who can take his side in Congregation matters. She is portrayed slightly more sympathetic as instead of just appearing in the middle to open up Diana, we see her already confronting Diana early on to try to gauge Diana’s powers. We also see her try to learn more about Diana by reading through Congregation archives. And we see Peter Knox’s power over her initially as he subdues her using his power. Also, like most witches, she is convinced that Matthew is using his vampiric powers to put Diana under his spell. Though these don’t justify the extremes she goes to, it is less of an abrupt shock when she appears to whisk Diana away from Sept-Tours and open her up to see Diana’s secrets and true powers.

Juliette Another whoa-that-came-out-of-nowhere antagonist in the book. In the show, as with Satu, we see her slowly closing in on our main characters as she is shown to have an obsession with “Matthew”, under Gerbert’s control. Though it does seem kind of :x that Marcus and Miriam didn’t warn Matthew when Juliette broke into his room. It was only a matter of time before she tracked him down to Diana’s home in Madison.

Sophie and Nathaniel Definitely preferred the introduction of Sophie and Nathaniel in the series than the book =w=;;;  In the book, when they show up out of nowhere to hand Diana one of the items she needs to travel to 1590, it seems a bit Deus Ex Machina-y because we are only following the events through Diana’s limited POV. In the show, we see Sophie slowly try to decipher who she is supposed to hand her family heirloom to, through her prophetic dreams. The idea of creatures intermixing is also gradually introduced as we find out that Sophie is a daemon born to witches, carrying a witch baby. Also implying that her prophetic dreams is due to her witchly heritage.  It also shows us, from the start, Nathaniel’s proficiency in computers, which will come in handy later on. 

Deleted Scenes It’s a 579 page book that has to be condensed into less than 8 hours of screen time so of course some things have to be cut.

Yoga Oh the yoga scenes. It would have been vaguely hilarious to see Matthew doing yoga XD Also, it added to Diana and Matthew slowly getting to know each other, as well as the possibility of all creatures getting along.  Pacing-wise, it would probably have been a bit too early in the show to introduce the concept of all the different creatures working together in harmony. Throughout the 8 episodes, there’s a nice development from outright hatred, with Gillian’s attitude towards Diana hanging out with Matthew, begrudging cooperation, within the members of the Congregation, tentative co-existence, with Nathaniel’s daemon group talking about how they interact with other creatures and humans, to the shadow congregation/conventicle that Diana’s family, Matthew’s family and Sophie’s family end up forming towards the end of the season. 

The ghosts Another practical cut because plot-wise, they don’t really add as much. It would have been fun to see Granny ghost and the other’s checking Matthew out the first time he steps into the Bishop house XD 

Season 2 speculations

- Suddenly watching a period piece. Haha. Though considering the ending of Season 1, it’ll probably expand on the story and intersperse bishmont’s 1590s shenanigans with present day details, like Marcus’s leadership of the Knights of Lazarus and what happens between Emily and Gerbert - bloodRage!Matthew. Yes please. I AM HERE FOR IT  🔥 🔥 🔥 - T H E  M A R R I A G E and finally getting to see bishmont do the do  😏 - Diana’s R A I N B O W magic. Also, I honestly still can’t quite picture what the knotting that she does with her magic looks like so it’ll be interesting to finally get to see it on screen.  -  Also quite curious to see if they’ll leave the loss of their first child in. On the one hand A N G S T plus a parallel to Matthew’s first marriage to Blanca. On the other hand, is there enough screen time? Also, the whole fear of hereditary blood rage could cover the same A N G S T.    

Honestly, there’s so much plot to cover, I’m curious to see how they’ll do it in 10 episodes (EDIT: thanks for the update on S2′s ep count @adow-trash . Sorry I’m super new to the fandom. Only started diving in on Monday)

[ngame989]

S4 So Far: Fucking Why? A take on the use of emotions and romance as a character development/narrative device compared to past seasons

OK so I literally only slept 3 hours last night after watching the eps, and it was a shitty 3 hours, so apologies if anything is jumbled or incoherent. This post is about why Season 4 as a whole (at least with the character relationships overall, not just romance and not just Starco) feels to me like such a gigantic and unnecessary fundamental writing/focus shift compared to past seasons (especially 1 and 2, but also 3).

Curse was... obviously just a slap in the face, a full descent into “will-they-won’t-they” for no purpose other than dragging it out, since it CONFIRMED that Star and Marco have true mutual love for each other and basically directly stated to the audience in the dance that, no, this isn’t because of the curse, it’s genuine, but decided more love polyhedra and suspense and drama were needed. NOTE THAT I FULLY ADMIT AND ACKNOWLEDGE THAT THEIR FEELINGS ARE REAL, THEIR DANCE HIGHLY AFFECTED ME, AND IT WAS A VERY STRONG EMOTIONAL MOMENT. I’m not trying to imply that it meant absolutely nothing, not at all, I’m more talking about its purpose in the narrative than the emotions it contained as an isolated scene when I say “it had no purpose other than to drag things out.” Not sure exactly where we go from here, but I know Starco’s still endgame, and I also know that the route there is gonna be at least some level of disappointment to me. No way around that, but I think it’s worth looking at the rest of the season to dig into what just feels different in a bad way, because it’s really not just Curse. I feel like half the fandom is freaking out simply over just the fact that they claimed they didn’t feel anything anymore, and worrying about the suspense and drama over whether Starco would still happen at all, but that reaction is the goal of will-they-won’t-they, it’s why it works and why so few stories bother going beyond it, and I hate that. The point I want to tackle and criticize isn’t “I’m worried Starco won’t happen!” but rather a look at the overall handling of characters and relationships in the show narratively.

Let’s start with a look back on earlier seasons. I should hope that anyone could agree watching the first 2 seasons that Star and Marco’s relationship was very strongly built on a foundation of emotional intimacy, honesty, supporting each other and understanding each other, etc. Even if you’re not a Starco shipper, even if you’re anti-Starco as a couple and see them as entirely platonic, this much at least should hopefully be agreeable to everyone, because it’s like 80% of what the show contained until the middle of S2 actually got some plot going. Once we get into season 3, it becomes a lot more contentious among the fans, but there’s still a lot of this same stuff. Yes, Star and Marco spend less screentime together, but the majority of moments they share feel special, and have a strong emotional core with moments between them. Toffee, Lint Catcher, Sweet Dreams (sort of), Night Life, Deep Dive, Marco Jr., Booth Buddies, Divide/Conquer - every single one of these had a clear focus on why Star and Marco’s relationship, specifically, was important and special to them, and what made them work so well as a pair. Not just “they go on an adventure together to accomplish a goal.” Granted, not EVERY single episode in any season was like this, all three of the past seasons did have episodes that were just the basic adventure, but this was still an overall important part of the pacing of the show even if not omnipresent. And yes, absolutely, other characters had meaningful emotional moments and bonds with each other as well. Bonbon provided payoff on a genuine emotional honesty that Marco had been building up with Jackie in Sleepover and Naysaya, not just romance for romance’s sake but feeling like it had a purpose, it made total sense why Marco and Jackie had feelings for each other and why they did to some extent work together. Demoncism for Tom and Star was another such moment, capitalizing in some part on Star’s heartbreak, yes, but still serving as a turning point with a genuine purpose to both their characters as they tried to take steps forward as people first, and they bonded over that. Similarly, Is Another Mystery built off of Monster Bash for Tomstar and specifically Tom’s issues with caring about others. Things flowed as a whole across the season, even if not in a way that involved Star and Marco constantly on screen together.

Now let’s look at S4 as a whole thus far. As far as Starco is concerned... what moments like this have we had? When has their relationship been clearly special to them as a normal part of their day to day lives and not just in some epic WOW moment? I guess the end of Follies, and the hug in Ransomgram if you squint just a little bit, but even then, the actual emotional core of that episode really didn’t have anything to do with Star and Marco’s relationship with each other specifically. All their other episodes are just very basic “Star and Marco perform an activity for some episodic plot purpose” with no heart or soul put into their dynamic itself. Then we get to Curse, where apparently Marco’s feelings for Star are so strong that he’s constantly beside himself with emotion over them, and Star’s for Marco obvious enough that even dense as fuck Tom knows. In any past season, these things would’ve been firmly built up over the course of meaningful Star and Marco moments across a handful of segments leading up to it, so... why not now? We had a single tangential reference to it on Star’s end in Lake House Fever, and Marco saying how hard it’s been in Kelly’s World immediately beforehand, and that’s it. Not to mention that Marco apparently has budding feelings for Kelly (despite not having had any meaningful emotional moments with her Lava Lake Beach, a full season ago), after only one episode in Season 4. Bonbon had Sleepover and Naysaya for Jarco, Demoncism had Club Snubbed for Tomstar, what did Kelly’s World have? To me, right now, it feels like emotions/romance in teen relationships in the show 180′d overnight from a genuine part of their day to day lives and interactions that ebb and flow naturally and subtly to “le epic shipping drama with blushes and handholding to get people’s feely-weely uwuing to the max and ready to tune in for more,” and this feels like a HUGE departure from the storytelling method of literally everything before Season 4.

EDIT: Let’s not ignore Curse itself either, though. The idea of destiny vs free will, and Star and Marco choosing to be with each other on their own terms entirely is cool on paper. Issue is, LITERALLY NOTHING IN THE SHOW UP TO THIS POINT HAS GIVEN OFF THE IDEA THAT IT’S MAGICALLY FORCED. Many fans postulated it, but the show never brought it up as a problem to be handled later, and put explicit care into all their developments being entirely natural. The “Blood Moon Curse” was a problem with very little buildup in the narrative, created specifically to start an arc that as an isolated thing seems fine, but ends up just fucking with what they’d already developed and delays the outcome more and more.

Maybe, best case scenario, all of this is just kind of wonky pacing for no clear reason, the show is known to fuck that up even at its best, but the overall progression will still be kind of fine. Maybe we fairly quickly enter an arc where they try to live their new lives, free of feelings, and they allow themselves to get closer to each other without reservation because they think the feelings are gone and begin to find genuine joy and happiness in their relationship (as a result of the love which is still there, but the placebo effect that they think it’s gone makes them open themselves up to it after seasons of trying to hide from it). Maybe this results in Kellco not really going anywhere, with like one episode of them trying to make it work and failing because Marco’s heart still isn’t in it, and Tomstar also breaking up because they both finally accept that even the Blood Moon going away didn’t change anything, and we’re still set for a Big Moment somewhere around Cornonation-Beach Day to be Star and Marco fully accepting and recognizing their love, on their own terms, with every bit of denial and every obstacle behind them, giving us at the VERY least a handful of segments before the end to showcase some day-to-day canon Starco, show why it works for them and why it makes them so happy, and to show Tom (and Kelly too, maybe?) being OK with the situation and finding fulfillment in it themselves. Then the series finale could be the final push for Starco, from “our feelings are real and we want to pursue them without any doubts” to “I want to spend the rest of my life with you”. I’d still overall call this a lot of unnecessary drama and dragging, and still highly question everything about these first 8 episodes that I did, but I can’t deny there IS a symbolic/narrative benefit for Curse here. It could serve as an important milestone where Star and Marco finally put the heartbreak and hurt their feelings cause behind them once and for all, which is sort of what a lot of people thought it would be anyway, and if things still move forward quickly as part of an arc then it would still perhaps accomplish something meaningful and not just dragging for drama.

Or maybe the rest of the season will largely follow the pattern of what we’ve had thus far, with everything through Cornonation being almost devoid of anything special in relationships, just showing characters interacting normally without any real developments, Star and Marco spending time together and Tomstar and Kellco being almost entirely background, with maybe one segment apiece just for fun. Then Beach Day could be a Big Ship™ episode that compresses all the lack of emotion into one giant over-the-top romantic episode where they finally start realizing “huh after the last 8 episodes of our normal friendship, guess we do actually still maybe feel something special after all” and then the breakup(s) happen afterwards as a result of “welp guess it won’t work, it’s been fun” with the series finale being when Star and Marco finally get to say “YES AFTER ALL THIS I NOW REALIZE I LOVE YOU” and kissing once and that’s the end of the show. Which still would be satisfying if for NO other reason than the first 3 seasons lingering in my mind, I still will almost certainly love Starco as a whole no matter what. But holy mother of fuck this would be the dumbest shit ever, a complete reversal on how they’ve always handled everything, for seemingly no other purpose than because they wrote themselves into a corner where they wanted to force Starco to only be series finale, but they also made it so strong in the first 3 seasons that its natural progression would make it canon before then so they had to fuck with it, and would make me almost regret being anything more than a casual appreciator of the show.

So all in all I’m still, for the time being, at least willing to see where it goes I guess, because Star and Marco are still firmly embedded in my heart even if the show’s handling of them in this final stretch turns out to disappoint me in almost every way imaginable. Unless things TRULY go to shit, I have some plans for some fanworks post-canon that will, if nothing else, help me and maybe some of you make peace with the potential the show will likely waste in rising above romcom drama to portray Starco actually blossoming into a fully happy and healthy canon romantic relationship to rule them all. But I will almost definitely not be staying up into the morning watching and freaking out about episodes, if the show is going to appeal to the lowest common denominator of casual romance drama, I suppose I need to become a casual viewer to compensate.

[sol1056]

git along little nonnies

Got a whole bunch of you on related themes, so I’m just gonna do this all at once: a bunch of questions about DW, spinoffs, merchandise, business, management, support (and protest) and whatnot. In no particular order.

Ok there are petitions and peaceful boycotts directed at DW but problem is they aren’t addressing the EPs and things they, not DW, did so how are we to sign them, how to handle this when this could at best confuse the situation and not give any results and at worst, make matters even worse about what we want regarding DW addressing things? 

Here’s what companies care about: money. Everything else is gravy.

If you want a corporation to pay attention to your complaints, then you need to figure out their sources of income, and find a way to threaten that. If the social reprobation is high enough, damage to the brand can translate into lost sales, but the tempest required to make that happen must be much, much larger than anything I’ve seen the fandom manage. 

I’ve been saying this all along: voices are far more powerful than signatures. If twenty thousand people wrote or called in, and said what they liked vs what upset them, that would have a far greater impact. Certainly a lot more than a list of names with no emotion beyond a request that may not even be something DW can, or would, fulfill.  

And don’t even get me started on mailing stuff in. Cute, but hardly actionable.  

Do you know what kind of contracts DW sign, as in, are they obligated to air all seasons, can they choose not to air them, do the companies they work with (netflix, wep) have a say or more say than them? Who gets the last word? Is airing all seasons squarely on DW or more? 

As I’m not a corporate lawyer employed by any of the signatories, I can’t tell you what the contract stipulated. What I can tell you is that a contract of the magnitude of the DW-WEP-Netflix agreement probably had a dissertation worth of riders covering the different types of possible defaults or breaches, and the penalties for each. Additionally, the contract also likely covered what constituted ‘satisfactory delivery’ of the product. 

To take it down to a really simple level: you place an order at a restaurant. You expect to get it, eat it, and pay for it. You don’t expect to be told, “hey, we burnt your steak and we’re out of butter for your sweet potatoes, so have some green beans instead,” and then be told you still owe the full amount, anyway. 

Netflix wouldn’t settle for ordering (and paying for) something never delivered, anymore than you would. Sure, any corporation worth their over-inflated stock options would try --- but that’s the point of contracts, to make sure they can’t. 

Netflix paid, DW delivers, end of story.  

 ...do you think ppl in charge didn't think EPs would tell they made changes and also thought they'd manage to bury it? And then they got in trouble and DW is going thru changes for that reason? -waves at DW goings on and silence.

I got lost in all the pronouns, there. Who’s the first ‘they,’ the EPs or DW execs? Is the second ‘they’ referring to the same as the first? So... I’m not really sure what you’re positing, but if the ‘DW is going through changes’ is implying DW’s got a shakeup and/or is promoting its head-of-TV to president and that’s somehow connected to two newbie EPs screwing up?

I’d say the chances are so infinitesimal as to be nearly in the negative. (I should also note, the press release listed successful shows Cohn oversaw, yet oddly did not include VLD.) DW is not a three-person start up; it has stakeholders and a board and a C-suite to satisfy. Cohn got that promotion ‘cause she’s got a track record going back thirty years, most recently growing DW’s TV division from 8 to 800 in five years. 

Most corporations tend to announce their new CEO or President like someone woke up that morning and went, hey, I’ve got a great idea. Truth is, it’s usually in the works for at least a year, sometimes several years, or more. The only thing that has me side-eyeing the announcement is the silence around who’ll fill Cohn’s previous position. 

But that’s again less to do with a single series, and more to do with what it says about DW as a whole, business-wise. 

What meaningful changes could the new president Margie Cohn make that would be different than the last one? Also I'm sorry if your getting a bunch of Voltron/DW questions lately, you just seem to be the most knowledgeable person on this platform.

I’d be willing to bet I’m far from the most knowledgeable person; I’m just someone not bound by an NDA, and curious enough to do a bit of digging and jaded enough to talk about (most) of what I find. 

A president can have immense impact on a company’s direction; that’s kinda why they exist, to set that high-level strategy. That said, Cohn will be bound by all contracts signed by her predecessor. The TV side (barring someone filling the shoes she left) will probably continue as it was. The theatrical side (which she’s taking over) will be where we’ll probably see any major changes. 

And even those aren’t likely to be on films currently in production. Hell, given theatrical animation can take up to five years, I’m not sure that’d show much change, either. Look instead to changes in investors, new deals, and new properties. 

What do you think DW will do about a sequel if there’s really no bible? Theres tons of plot holes & abandoned storylines. VLD will never feel satisfying, and fans already argued with different interpretations based on conflicting content, without a nice satisfying explanation...

I know this is the first of a three-part ask, but I’m skipping the rest because the only answer possible is to your very first question: the bible doesn’t matter. 

Any new series --- even a continuation --- will construct its own bible. Same as we’d do in fandom: they’ll patch together what they can, fill in blanks as they need, and gloss the rest, or retcon it outright. Even if there were a bible, diligently followed, that doesn’t mean the next series is automatically beholden to it. Some franchises would care (ie Star Wars) while others might let a reboot mess with the details (ie Star Trek). 

For every continuation, there’s gradations in between, since otherwise what’s the interest for creative minds, if you’re obligated to follow someone else’s script exactly? So, no. The absence of a story bible doesn’t preclude the next iteration making its own, as it needs, to whatever extent it requires. 

I was wandering around the hot topic online store, and i noticed a shirt that raised a few flags and questions. it's the 'Voltron Location' shirt. it has all the paladins in different places in a star globe chart thing? with what might possibly be planet designations. plus Lance is the only one not inside his blue colored bubble. Keith is in Red and Shiro in Black again. it's interesting at least.

Nearly all the shirts use the same base images, just changed up. It feels a little like someone handed a designer a half-dozen images with a request for forty-something designs --- and now HT is just throwing them all at the wall to see what sticks (or sells). 

HT’s stuff has been pretty consistent, from what I’ve heard: Shiro is Black, Keith is Red, etc. Considering the t-shirts seem to be selling out regularly (along with various other sidelines), I’d say someone is savvy as to the fact that the segment of fandom spending the most money is also the segment that prefers the S1/S2 lineup. 

If that’s what customers want, it’s smart business for DW to provide.

(Yes, that applies on more than one level.)

There are VLD comic books being released by LionForge Comics, are those considered canon? Do LM and JDS have any involvement? They take place before Season 7and8 but I don't wanna support the original EPs.

Every fandom has its own stand on what counts as canon. Sometimes (especially with adaptations) you’ll find fandoms being explicit as to whether they’re book or movie (ie HP and LotR). I expect the same will eventually shake out in VLD’s fandom, too. 

From everything I’ve heard, Hedrick and Iverson were handed the comics and ran with it. I suppose that would argue for seeing the comics as canon, being they were written by people also writing the main series... but from what I can tell, it’s one-way. The show affected the comics, but nothing in the comics ever affected the series.

That said, your purchases have nothing to do with the original EPs. All you’re doing is telling DW you like the VLD-iteration of Voltron.

What are your thoughts on the final vld poster? I feel like it’s missing the end. Allura is randomly staring back into nothing.

It’s a clever idea to do a poster for each season, but it’s not something I’ve ever paid any attention to, really. If it were drawn by the head writer? That might mean the artist had more insight than, say, a storyboarder or animator. But even then... cool picture, still not-canon. I’m only interested in canon.

Do you think that Voltron was rushed purposely by the EP's. [...] Wouldn't this effect the quality of, well, everything? I feel as if they got frustrated with the show at that point and just wanted out.

Dude. There are times I sit here and just stare into space, bewildered yet again not just at the thought of 39 episodes released in one year --- but doing that with 26 as a last-minute cut-and-paste rearrangement. All I can tell you is that what I’ve seen from animation people and aficionados (and friends) is that three full seasons in one calendar year is just bonkers. 

If DW hadn’t wanted the schedule that packed, the EPs aren’t the ones getting the say. That’s a DW-Netflix thing. I really wonder whether DW used VLD as a guinea pig. TH went a year between S1 and S2, and the numbers slumped badly. Perhaps DW wanted to know if more episodes, more often, would keep fan interest high? DW has experienced execs, but they’re all from broadcast; how you arrange and time things in the brave new world of binge-watching is a completely different beast. 

So, it’s possible it was less of a rush job to get the show out, and more from a desire to see what'd happen to release so much, so close together. 

I still think it’s a bonkers schedule, though.

"Relaunch the whole property" sounds like they won't continue expanding the whole vld universe and they'll make a new itineration. Though if they do a spin-off it'd likely be on the vld universe surrounding the new "Legendary Defenders" from the epilogue. And "especially given the response" do you think after the negative response from s8, wouldn't be better for WEP to not keep working with Dreamworks? Or maybe they need to clean their brand from vld fiasco? What can you say about all of this?

I can say you might try re-reading, because boy is that a radical interpretation of the text. Remember, Jeremy was speaking before S8, and all indication is that he was caught off-guard as much as the fans. Re-read in light of Jeremy (at the time) appearing to expect S8 to be a crowd-pleaser.   

...I'm becoming more confident in my belief that DW has something planned for Voltron. I mean they are still heavily promoting the show, LionForge is still publishing Voltron comics, and merchandise is still being made. These don't seem like the actions of a company trying to get people to forget a show. 

You’re not wrong. Up to the last few days of 2018, DW gave every indication they wanted S8 quietly buried. Nothing they’ve done since has fit that pattern --- including the anomaly of failing to announce their 2019 series. Something is going on, that’s for certain. 

Did DW really just throw the VAs to the wolves [for] three days? and there's still no official stance? One panel was enough. They had [the VAs] take the heat for them? But thankfully fans felt sorry for them? Which could also have been the goal, shut the fans up [with] the VAs of the characters who got the worst treatment and who love their characters ... Yes DW this really makes me trust you /sarcasm/

I don’t think that was the original plan. Let’s pretend DW released its 2019 schedule via press release in the first few days of January, and among those was an announcement of a VLD sequel or spinoff, coming late 2019. 

People wouldn’t be fussing over putting the VAs through three panels. They’d be complaining we didn’t get the biggest room for every panel. The majority of the fandom doesn’t trust the EPs, and is wary of DW --- really, the only ones who retain any goodwill, at this point, are the VAs. So who better than to assure a nervous fandom about the goodness of the second iteration than the VAs whose characters were most shafted by the first iteration?

What breaks this is that immediately after S8 dropped, Josh and Kimberly went silent on twitter. AJ slipped into passive-aggressive snarking; Jeremy fell off the radar and usually he’s pretty interactive with his fans. Bex pretty much wiped  VLD from her stream, possibly including deleting older tweets. Neil tried to engage and made a hash of it, bless his heart. 

Josh and Kimberly are consummate professionals who reliably promote the series after every season drop, but their radio silence continued for almost two weeks. This wasn’t the first season that came saddled with controversy; if there was a time to go quiet, it was after S7. Something else was going on. 

I have strong suspicions backed by research, but if I’m right, I’d be stepping on a major legal landmine. In the interest of not getting blown up, I’ll only say that the VAs appearing for those three panels (and their low-key and mostly diplomatic hedging around VLD’s conclusion) was a good sign that all parties involved are willing to work things out.   

[DW was] quick to handle the Season 7 backlash and have stayed mum on what is arguably a much worse reaction to the 8th and final season.

and

I believe the S8 of voltron we got was not the original ending we were supposed to get and highly edited. My question is why? What was the point of changing the original ending? [The] radio silence from DW and the cast is driving me nuts. I wish DW would make a statement.

DW is in an interesting place. Its TV side is barely five years old, but dominated by execs with long-time broadcast experience, predating vibrant interactivity afforded by platforms like twitter, tumblr, or instagram. DW’s background as a theatrical company also seems to incline it away from any ongoing engagement with the audience. It releases a movie and by the time that hits theaters, DW is onto the next thing. 

It’s a strong contrast with production studios like Zagtoon (Miraculous), who penned an open letter to their fandom about production delays. Or little studios like Wonderstorm (The Dragon Prince) whose deft use of twitter and tumblr sets their brand apart. Or Federator (Castlevania), with their witty marketing campaigns and willingness to engage with fans. Even Disney was willing to be open about its errors with Tiana, and to make clear how it was striving to do better --- so there’s no excuse that only small studios do such outreach.

My guess is that DW's core leadership is from the school of business in which admitting a mistake is tantamount to ritual suicide. Don’t blink first, or maybe the rule is never let them see you sweat, but whatever it is, DW is turning into a textbook case of how silence can damage a brand. 

Companies have multiple avenues to reach customers directly, now. Our modern technologies are a two-way street, and good companies leverage that to create not passive fandoms but active communities. It takes work, careful planning, and some level of transparency --- something old-school execs find highly uncomfortable, to be honest --- but in this day and age, those are crucial building-blocks to achieving any kind of audience loyalty.

DW isn’t going to render itself obsolete (at least not overnight), but it's on a track to end up as the studio whose work audiences only watch when there’s nothing better being offered. Unfortunately for DW, there’s a hell of a lot of other studios out there, and they're all offering something better. 

[anotheruserwithnoname]

Thoughts on Victoria Series 3

Some general thoughts on the just-concluded (well, in North America, anyway) Season 3 of Victoria. Obviously spoilers ahead - and I will be talking about some of the season’s major moments, so read on only if you’ve seen the show or don’t care about spoilage!

To start at the very end, the cliffhanger finale appears to have answered two questions: will there be a fourth series and will Jenna Coleman and Tom Hughes be a part of it. Of course we won’t know officially for maybe months to come, but I think it’s relatively rare for British seasons to end on a cliffhanger if there isn’t a follow-up season already in the bag. Maybe some examples can be given of cliffhanger cancellations - The Omega Factor, maybe? Red Dwarf went off the air for four years having left things on a cliffhanger. So maybe I’m wrong, but considering S1 and S2 both had “full stops” (albeit with S2 having a Christmas special as a postscript), if nothing else it suggests confidence.

And as for Jenna continuing - well, they could change the actress on a cliffhanger, I suppose. Maybe we’re going to jump ahead closer to Albert’s death and not directly resolve the collapse. But Jenna is on record as talking about what she wants to do in Series 4. Time will tell.

Looking at the season as a whole, although I greatly enjoyed it, it did feel perhaps a bit uneven. There was perhaps a greater emphasis on supporting characters this year, but with the Francatelli/Skerett arc cruelly cut off midway through the season, and surprisingly Ernst and Harriet being absent completely - there was greater emphasis on Lord Palmerston, who I think deserves a show of his own, and Victoria’s semi-estranged sister, Feodora, who I found was played perhaps a bit too much like a costume-drama villain. Similarly, the romance between Sophie and William the footman was well handled, but at times felt like it belonged in another series - though I loved the verbal thumping that Victoria gives Sophie’s abusive husband, and the Penge-William dynamic was interesting to see. Mrs. Turner, Skerett’s successor as Victoria’s dresser, is also an interesting addition, especially as Victoria starts to use her as sort of her own Baker Street Irregular.

I was very surprised at Ernst and Harriet being absent from the season, especially as I could have sworn David Oakes and Margaret Clunie posted about filming. Were their scenes deleted? Is it possible that, as a consolation for ITV delaying broadcast of Series 3 well beyond the US airing that this time British viewers are going to see the bonus scenes? I don’t know. But we get no more of their budding romance (which might be for the best as it was rather “doomed to history”). Also totally forgotten about is the marriage of Lord Alfred and Wilhelmina Coke that was expected to follow the Christmas season (though Paget is still present). Diana Rigg was also nowhere to be found. We still had  Penge and Brodie, and Lady Portman provided some interesting dynamics with Lord Palmerston. Peter Bowles (who I’ll always remember from his appearance in Patrick McGoohan’s The Prisoner) gets some great moments before bowing out as the Duke of Wellington. As for Francatelli and Skerrett, things seem to be going well ... then they suddenly get cut off in their prime.

I know there are people really angry about what happened to them, but I actually didn’t mind it because, realistically, once they left the palace, there really was no further value to the characters in terms of helping tell Victoria’s story. Plus, it gave real stakes and consequences to the deadly disease that afflicted Londoners at the time. It was a brave choice, and I think a good one. they couldn’t exactly kill off Albert 20 years early, right? There was also a line of dialogue implying that Lord M is no longer with us. Robert Peel’s death isn’t mentioned; instead we have John Sessions as rather undynamic Prime Minister Russell, though he’s undynamic mainly because of Lord Palmerston taking all the attention.

Also new this year were the Prince and Princess of Foreshadowing - otherwise known as Vicky and the future King Edward VII. I thought the storyline involving Bertie’s learning disability was well handled, but I did find myself eye-rolling a little bit when Bertie professes his love for his cousin Heidi. And in Vicky I could sense Daisy Goodwin giving a bit of a wink to today’s audiences; after all, it wasn’t until William and Kate’s first child was nearly born that Parliament finally did away with the “first male is the heir” rule. Had it been in place in the mid-1800s, we might have had Queen Victoria II come to the throne in 1901 (albeit only for a short while as Vicky only outlived her mother by about 7 months). The tension between Bertie and his father - which Victoria later blamed for contributing to Prince Albert’s early death - is foreshadowed pretty heavily.

What kept me truly engaged, once again, were the performances by Jenna Coleman and Tom Hughes. Both approached their roles with renewed confidence. Jenna clearly was still working on the momentum of The Cry, and Tom had himself been busy filming between seasons, and it shows. Tom’s Albert has a drive to him I haven’t seen since the Series 1 episodes about the trains and his speech about slavery; he successfully manages to overshadow Victoria several times. Jenna’s Victoria exhibits the type of maturity expected of someone who has worn the crown for more than a decade and has had 7 children (and the season doesn’t sugarcoat the impact that has on both Victoria and Albert). The show comes back to a recurring theme that Victoria doesn’t like change - in particular when people leave her. Her upset at Skerett’s resignation, her sadness at Wellington’s retirement, and her rather pointed words that may or may not have changed Sophie’s plan to elope. It’s pretty consistent. The relationship between Victoria and Albert is strained this season, less romantic at times - Victoria even comes to the conclusion Albert doesn’t love her anymore - but in the end, their relationship is more mature than ever. They aren’t teenagers anymore; to have them acting as such is perhaps unrealistic. And the result being two people still deeply in love and bonding like never before. In an odd way I could almost compare it to the Eleventh Doctor and Clara Oswald vs. the Twelfth Doctor and Clara. The first relationship was giddy and first-date like; the second was the deep bond of love (that goes “beyond romance” to quote Peter Capaldi) of the type you get when two people mature together and have life experiences together. Still in love, but differently, as Series 3 establishes.

If there is one disappointment, it’s that Series 3 didn’t - for me - produce any standout single episode, the way Series 1 had the train episode and Series 2 the Scottish episode. Perhaps the closest was the dysentery episode, though more because of its tragedy than the heartwarming feelings generated by the first two. The finale was good but it had to deal with resolving several plot thread (or at least setting them up for cliffhangers).

I know Victoria is not to everyone’s liking. I’ve seen people criticizing it for violating history in much the same way that I’ve seen Trekkies going after Star Trek Discovery for violating Trek canon. It even has a bit of Discovery vs The Orville-style rivalry happening as there are those who prefer the harder edge and Netflix trappings of The Crown. But Victoria is, above all, a generally light-hearted romantic drama. It’s not a documentary. And it certainly hews to history closer than, say, the Reign TV series about Mary Queen of Scots or, for that matter, the recent movie about Mary Queen of Scots. (That said, in casting Laurence Fox as the dynamic Lord Palmerston they did try the same thing they did with Rufus Sewell’s Lord M; Palmerston was considerably older than Fox in real life.)

Victoria Series 3 did its job - it was entertaining, it transported me out of a rather unpleasant period of my life for an hour or so, and it was good. Even if I wasn’t a Jenna Coleman fan, I’d still have watched it. I loved it.

So is Victoria done? Well, leaving the series on a cliffhanger (a couple of them) would suggest they hope to come back. Will Jenna come back? They certainly seems to have set things up that she has to return. But then in the new Harper’s UK interview out just today (March 3) she talks about going to LA after her play is finished to look for movie roles. That doesn’t sound like someone expecting to spend 8 months filming Victoria starting in the summer. She could be just covering her bases like any good actor and not assuming that a renewal is guaranteed (there are videos out there of the casts of Magnum PI and Brooklyn Nine Nine being told about their renewals and the sense of relief of continued employment is palpable). Maybe my guess is right and we’re being set up for the most depressing Christmas special ever? Time will tell, the saying goes.

Regardless, I will miss Victoria and if she is indeed finished in the role, I can’t wait to see what Jenna does next (starting with the play which is to have a National Theatre Live cinema showing).