#ask byron

[bogusbyron]

Valjean kissing Javert on his bald head for les mis requests? :3

more surface area for kisses, clearly ...

[earlgrey24]

Top 5 underappreciated historical figures!

Thanks for the ask! This one was super fun, but also super difficult to answer. I've purposefully avoided mentioning the ladies of the French Revolution, since I have another question specifically about them lined up.

With that being said, in no particular order:

Fulvia

Anyone in the classics circle likely knows much more about her than I do, but I'm so glad I've discovered her through Tumblr! All of the things I've learned about her so far have been so interesting. It's incredible to see how much political (and military) power a Roman woman was able to yield despite living in a deeply patriarchal society.

(also, the part of me that loves drama really appreciates the story about her stabbing Cicero's tongue with hairpins after the proscriptions and Octavian's atrocious poem about her)

2. Émilie du Châtelet

Also hardly a surprise for anyone who's been following me for a while. Again, the fact that I've only relatively recently found out that there was a female mathematician and physicist in the fist half of the 18th century with such significant contributions to the field makes me almost feel as if I've been lied to.

She is special to me both because she was incredibly smart (she was able to understand Newton like few other people in her time and she spoke so many languages!) but there's also something about her writing that makes her feel deeply human and relatable. I've read some of her texts, and not only are they written in a beautiful prose but they're also incredibly moving. Her view on how to achieve happiness in life is one of the best I've ever came across, and her arguments for the education of women always make me feel so emotional...

...when she says that it was only after she realised that the circle of (male) French intellectuals accepted her among themselves and treated her as equal that she realised she too "might be a thinking creature"... I don't know, there's something about it that always gets to me.

Okay, time to introduce some male historical figures as well! This one is a residue from the time when I was really into the American Revolution.

3. Peter Stephen Du Ponceau

He was probably the only one in Baron von Steuben's original group that was able to speak decent English when they first arrived in the US to join the revolutionary war, which a) makes him quite important b) is kind of funny to think about.

But what I especially like about him is that he was a talented linguist who seemed to have genuine respect for other cultures, which let's face it, was quite rare in his times. While taking part in the American Revolutionary War, he recorded and studied the languages of Native American People. How cool is that?

(He was also potentially queer and I do have a soft spot for queer history)

Okay, guess should bring up someone interesting from Czech history as well. I fully confess that my own country's history is not necessarily my favourite area of study, but for her, I'll always make an exception:

4. Milena Jesenská

Probably most well known as Kafka's (kind of?) girlfriend/pen pal, but there is so much more to her story!

She was a writer and a journalist during the first half of the 20th century. She was really talented and soon made a reputation for herself, which let's face it, wasn't an easy thing to do for women in her time.

After Czechia became occupied by Nazi Germany, she joined the resistance movement and helped Jewish families to escape. She was later transported to a concentration camp, where she worked as a nurse and was said to have been "a moral support for other prisoners". She unfortunately died there when she was only 47. Still, what a life!

5. John Polidori

He's not necessarily my number one favourite person but I'd argue he is one of the most unappreciated figures. Vampires in fiction are massively popular but he rarely gets credited as one of its first authors. (Also the theory that Lord Ruthven, the charismatic, immoral aristocrat featured in The Vampyre is heavily based off on Lord Byron is not only entirely plausible but also quite funny).

Whenever I read something about the Geneva Squad, I always end up feeling kind of bad for him. As a foreigner, someone who was of a lower social status and - since he technically came along as Byron's personal physician - a paid employee, it just seems to me like he was never actually fully part of the group. Maybe I'm wrong, but to me, he felt kind of like a perpetual outsider. Lord Byron also got the credit for writing The Vampyre that should have gone to Polidori.

He was of course far from a perfect saint, with his drug and gambling addiction, but I still can't help but feel that he deserved better.

[is-the-19thcentury-man-okay]

I was very pleased with my English 1820s man. I made sure he had enrichment of a scholarly nature, to balance out the Romantic tendencies they have. He took to studying classical history and language, and I confess I was proud to have such an intelligent 19th century man. More recently he took an interest in current affairs but, as he is quite young, I assumed this was a sign of maturing. Then, just like that, he ran away! I went out searching and a neighbour informed me that he'd gone to Greece to fight against the Ottomans! I was horrified and went straight there, but I found him with a pack of Greek 1820s men and he adamantly refused to come home. What should I do? I worry that he will get hurt fighting, or that his constitution will not survive rough living in the Greek mountains. But he's having such a good time. He is learning the modern iteration of Greek (such a clever man), enjoys the local cuisine, and even wants to dress like his new friends. Is he in great danger if I let him stay, and how could I take him home without breaking his heart? (I don't want to risk any of those Greek 1820s men getting angry either, if I take their lucky mascot away.) Many thanks for your advice!

Romanticism and nationalism make for a very potent combination, as you have learned by now, and for many 19th century men of a certain social class and level of education, the attraction of the Classical world adds another layer of mythical folklore; not to mention the allure of pagan ceremony and skimpy neoclassical clothes.

For 1820s-1830s men, the Byronic appeal of exotic "Eastern" nations can be irresistible, and in general you will find a lot of national myth-making and interest in folk costumes.

Lord Byron in Albanian dress, 1813. This man is not Albanian!

You also have to be aware of your 19th century man's possibly very different ideas of national and imperial boundaries. He learns the polka in Bohemia, he wants to fight the Ottomans, he wants to fight in the Miguelite war—he might support Romantic German nationalism! It's not always the national and cultural understandings of the 21st century.

Being British is also not a guarantee of sensible behaviour. You might think that your British naval officer is going to rest on his laurels after the Napoleonic Wars, and the next thing you know, he's leading a fleet in the Chilean Independence movement!

Thomas Cochrane, naval officer for hire.

19th century men are not for the faint of heart. It can be challenging to balance their Romantic desires with a sensible course of action. Since your man has already spent so much time with his new Greek friends and has embraced their lifestyle, you could suggest that it's important that he document his experiences in a travel narrative that will also champion their cause.

As much as possible, you want to convince him that he's very valuable as a writer and/or visual artist giving voice to a cause—too valuable to foolishly risk his life or ruin his health abroad.

[askthebrawlers]

Hey Edgar, psst- have a cookie for your hard work at the gift shop 🍪🍪🍪 hope you get to keep your tips today :'D

Ed: Thanks, but if Colette doesn't pocket any of the tips before Griff gets to them, we won't be getting much.

[salon-maiden-anabel]

If I may, follow up to Roark as a Lati: Byron as a Lati?

SORRY THIS TOOK SO LONG TO RESPOND TO but hands you an old man

[fractalkiss]

3!

for prompt #3, "platitude"

university au, teacher and student, also inspired by this tweet lmao

Button isn't bad; he makes things pretty easy for everyone in his class. Even when hungover or running on four hours of sleep, it isn't hard to pull through if you've got him, and it helps that they've moved on from freaking Bleak House. Lance actually listens to most discussions now that he doesn't have to read any more Dickens.

They have specials in the cafeteria at humanities every Friday and it's the only time Button is in the cafeteria with other professors. Lance was about 90% sure he'd be—he barely goes there himself because the menu and coffee is awful. Button is there, his plate almost wiped clean and sitting across Alonso at a corner of the cafeteria.

"You don't look like you're keen on feedback on your essay," Button tells Lance, though he's smiling, surprised to see Lance at their table.

"I thought I could have gotten an A," Lance says, shrugging off the hood of his pullover and fixing his hair. Button is right though; Lance is happy with B's. If Button isn't convinced, whatever, fine. "I thought the argument was solid enough."

"You wavered in the middle with evidence," Button points out. He motions to the chair next to Alonso and Lance sits in it. "Have you read Jane Eyre, Fernando?"

"No. Please, do not ask about any movie adaptations, because no also," Alonso says. He looks bored, sipping on his Coke but he doesn't seem to want to leave, and doesn't busy himself with his phone. He's wearing a white polo today, the tattoo below his wrist a stark spike of black against the fake marble table surface. He was mostly covered up when Lance was in his class. Lance feels like he doesn't see it enough sometimes.

"You should, you might enjoy it. But as I was saying, your evidence," Button goes on.

"Not even with the references I used?" Lance says, feeling kind of stupid talking about this now. He's hoping Button doesn't go off too much about what he's written. Alonso—Fernando, would find it funny and never let Lance live it down. Lance bumps his knee against Fernando's leg, presses it there under the table. He feels Fernando go tense, the inseam of his black jeans stretching as he shifts.

"The analysis of Rochester in terms of Byron is overdone and unnecessary in this context to Saint John," Button explains.

"Right, okay," Lance says, trying to think about a follow-up question. He was better at those in Alonso's class. Alonso didn't like wasting time and is kind of an asshole to his students on a bad day. He softened enough if Lance caught him alone after class and looked at his mouth and hands too much, made the press of his fingers on Lance's waist hard and greedy.

"If you just described Rochester as a rake, that would get your point across fine, even if it's still the obvious," Button says.

"A rake?" Fernando asks.

"Lance, do you want to tell him what it means?" Button asks, smiling like this is his classroom.

"Uh," Lance says smartly; he feels Fernando touch his knee, hand moving up slightly to rub along the inside of his thigh.

"A man of immoral or excessive pleasures," Button answers, and Fernando nods, keeps his hand on Lance in the same place, his touch hot and spreading a restless itch through Lance.

[burningvelvet]

Hi! I was enchanted by your description of Byronic-ness, and really impressed with the wealth of knowledge you bring to bear on the topic. I'm re-listening to The Portrait of Dorian Gray, and I was wondering if Dorian would be Broadly Byronic, or Byronic-Orthodox? Conversely, how would Lord Henry stack up?

(for context, the post this ask is referring to, where I discuss my theory on the Byronic Hero, is here: https://www.tumblr.com/burningvelvet/733557464082120704/some-thoughts-on-the-topic-of-byronism-byronic)

Thank you for the ask and sorry for the late reply. I wish I could give a more thorough answer, and although I've read Dorian at least three times, I haven't since my study of Byronism. Now I would like to read it again just to scan it for Byronic themes - but at the moment I can't justify spending time on a venture like this. But I could write essays about this topic, as many other people have.

In short, I believe Dorian would be more Broadly Byronic and Henry is also probably Broadly Byronic, but that Henry is much, much closer to being Orthodox Byronic if we see it as more of a spectrum than a binary, which would really be best, although I didn't really take that approach in my original post. Very few characters could be classified as Orthodox Byronic, so a spectrum really is most necessary.

In my original post, I included some quotes from top Byron scholar Peter Cochran writing about the Byronic Hero concept in his essay "Byron's 'Turkish Tales': An Introduction."

Cochran contrasts the Byronic Hero with the Shakespearean Tragic Hero by saying that the latter can be something of a witty conversationalist, whereas the former never is, being too dead inside (my words, not his). Henry is certainly a cunning conversationalist, and is actually a lot like Iago from Othello — a character who, ironically, Lord Byron loved so much that he put on a production of the play just so he could play him (as an aside, because I love this story: Mary Shelley played Desdemona and Percy directed, but one of Byron's mistresses forced the rehearsals to stop, supposedly because she was jealous of one of the actresses and felt left out because she couldn't speak English).

Anyway. Cochran also says that the prototypical Byronic Hero (what in my post I originally called the "Byronist's Byronic," but prefer to call "Orthodox Byronic" for clarity) never succeeds romantically, which is true. I don't know if this fully applies to Dorian or Henry. The former has several love affairs which aren't really genuine but which he does derive a sort of decadent satisfaction from. Dorian "wins over" Sybil Vane. Henry is married, and though not in love with his wife, he doesn't despise her like Heathcliff does his wife. Heathcliff is widely considered the greatest overall Byronic Hero, as he meets most of the criteria for both Orthodox Byronic and Broadly Byronic.

Cochran also says:

"The Byronic hero is a human dead-end."

Which does describe both Henry and Dorian. But in being companions, neither of them have the solitary nature which the Byronic necessitates, although they both come close (especially Dorian in the end) by being outsiders. And they are both hedonists, which isn't really Byronic, though people consider it as such, probably because of the cultural & literary confusion (as I explained in my original post) between the writings of Byron the Writer and the life of Byron the Man.

The Orthodox Byronic Hero, like Heathcliff, is mostly antisocial with few exceptions and basically has anhedonia the majority of the time. Dorian and Henry are a little anhedonic, especially Dorian in his infamously increasing pursuit of pleasure, but the Orthodox Byronic Hero is really too depressed to get it up for prostitutes or to go to an Opium den, and would never be caught dead at the kinds of dinner parties Dorian and Henry frequent.

But again, my overall opinion is that whild both of them have strong Byronic elements, they are more Broadly Byronic than Orthodox Byronic, which is a more rare character type.

[birdstooth]

Sudden AU. Christine and Raoul are bees, Eric is a hornet, Carlotta is a wasp, Piangi is a bumblebee. Meg and her mother are probably bees too, and the managers are bumblebees or wasps.

(Although some might be Cuckoo Wasps and some might be Hover Flies)

If anything, drawing is optional, I just wanted to share.

Ok so actually I am rlllyyyyy scared of bees like even the emoji is scary to me so I cannot draw these bees for u 😔

But here is the main trio in bee themed attire and 2/3 are having a good time!! 😊

The other bees I haven’t got an idea for the outfits yet and I want to make Carlotta’s very fancy so I’ll get back to u on that haha 😅

Original sketch

Also to everyone pls note that rn I’m using the doodle requests as kind of Guinea pigs to test out brushes and stuff on procreate so if it comes out wonkier than usual that’s why 🫠

[soccerpunching]

I looked at every notes on all that tournament's posts and the aphrodi vs selene one is 4 times the notes on the other posts. We really love you aphrodi, we really really do

Spreading also this propaganda on spoutible later. Let's see if any of my cool older pals have tumblr. (I also shared on the spoutible server with the younger users there)

Anyway, vote Aphrodi!!!

[llynwen]

hey I saw your tags abt reading the MM book too and I desperately need to hear abt it from more ppl that also shoved it up their ass. Thoughts?

oh brother you have no idea just how many thoughts i have about it.

i really didn't wanna read the book because i knew it was going to make me go insane, but then a friend of mine who i'm trying to force to watch the show (i beg of you martyna. it's so good) decided to get it for me for my birthday.

from the very first few fucking pages i was Perplexed, to put it lightly. i was expecting a light and breezy autobiography with some silly childhood anecdotes and maybe behind the scenes tea about the hollywood crowd. Instead i was served almost 300 pages of trauma dumping, philosophical ruminations and some very TMI info that i wish i never read. i rated this book 5/5 on goodreads btw.

the first thing that really knocked me on my ass was this (i'm ignoring the ketchup story i DON'T want to think about that)

this should've given me an idea about that kind of book this was gonna be. yet i continued on, blindly, thinking, okay maybe he just wanted to get that out there. more power to him. whatever. (not really).

then the motherfuckers starts explaining his little philosophy, the titular green lights, right? and i'm like, yeah. i agree. you're correct. but why did it take you 50 years to figure this out? i'm 24 and i've been living by this very logic for years. Anyways. i continue reading.

now, bro spends half the book trying to convince us his parents were NOT abusive. i disagree. i think he has stockholm syndrome. i hope he's in therapy. i don't wanna think about this either.

now, this is where i started catching on that he was lying to me. i know it took me an embarrassingly long time, but i was giving him the benefit of the doubt. the undead parrot and the 13 story tree house, however, was what made me go Wait A Damn Minute.

yeah, turns out this book isn't a memoir, it's a mix between a magical realism novel, a self help handbook and a philosophical treaty. served to you on really nice paper (i mean Really nice. i appreciate that) with important words in bold, italics or even sometimes in green (which i appreciate even more, since i am tragically dyslexic).

after establishing that all men do is, in fact, lie, i gained a different outlook on the whole thing (i swear i need to read it again, this time in full englit major mode, make some notes and dissect this thing like it's shakespeare).

i like how candid he is about kind of getting lucky with the whole famous thing. he really took that slutty slutty waist and peculiar bone structure of his and said I'm Gonna Make A Career Out Of This. good for him.

he is, however, just a man, and at the end of the day, you can really tell he sees the world through his privilege. the white straight cis christian rich and famous thing kinda sways him into obnoxious territory in some parts, and it had me seething with rage. like, i too would love to go hike through south america because it came to me in a dream. i'd looooove to go visit my favorite unknown artist in a country on the other side of the world. i was half hoping to read about a piranha biting his shlong off when he went skinny dipping in the motherfucking amazon. (un)fortunately, no dice.

the david and goliath story made me chuckle out loud. he makes it Just believable enough to make you think about it. i like being made to think.

the philosophics continue in the form of the single most cursed wall of chicken scratches i ever did see. i sat there, straining my eyes, trying to decipher this shit, and i'm pretty sure he was on something when he wrote it because all of this

could be summed up with "you've gotta leave your comfort zone to learn more about yourself and the world." suck my cock dude.

i Really like how he talks about his wife. but then again, when you look at her, there really isn't any other way of talking about her.

i mean. how the Fuck did his stinky ass pull this goddess. lucky bastard.

now, the 3ish pages where he talks about filming the show (which was the whole reason i even started reading) are criminally underwhelming. i was hoping for a sneak peak into that elusive 450 page manuscript (i will Steal your laptop matthew. watch out), but instead i got a one liner of him being like i wanna play rusty because he's the specialest little girl in the whole entire world and the producers going yeah fine. THAT'S IT. still mad about this, especially because after that he hits you with the love letter to new orleans. i mean be serious. he should Not be allowed to write shit like that.

to summarize, i think he might be a genius, or he might be insane. he is probably both. i want to shove this book up his ass for many reasons, for example him making me learn the names of his kids (i hate knowing things about celebrity kids. leave them out of this) or for making me agree with him. because i do. agree. I don't appreciate his continued efforts to convert me to christianity and i think he's disgustingly obnoxious in some places, but the truth is he has a real cool outlook on a lot of things and i'm very mad that i now respect this bastard for more than his acting skills. i would like to buy him a six pack and listen to him talk about it. i'd love to argue with him, too. i can recommend this book to everybody who feels like they need to experience some psychic damage and maybe an existentialist crisis alongside it. on Very Nice Paper.

[cup0fcocoa]

Finally did that pair chart thing

[bogusbyron]

request for @alilsakurablossom :-)

[earlgrey24]

asking you your top-5 anything: ok this might not come in list form, but what 5 things do you like the most about Catullus?

Hi, first of all thanks so much for the interesting ask and so sorry for taking forever to answer it!

(obligatory am not a classicist, just an enthusiast. I also sadly can't really speak Latin, so take anything I say here with a grain of salt)

1. The sheer variety of his poems

Are you looking for a poem describing a fun playful banter between friends? A tender love poem? A poem about stolen napkins? An epic poem inspired by Greek mythology that is so beautiful and haunting that it shakes you to your core?

Or perhaps a poem so obscene that it wasn't allowed to be published in most of the English anthologies until relatively recently?

No matter your taste or mood, Catullus has got you covered!

2. There's a feminine aspect to his poetry

The understanding of gender and sexuality in Ancient Rome is hands down one of my favourite subjects, and Catullus' poems give you a great insight into them if you read between the lines.

You could for instance read C 16 as an inherent testimony to the fragility of Roman masculinity (seeing it as an attempt to re-establish his masculinity after he's been criticised for writing 'unmanly' love poems).

But what I especially appreciate is his ability to take on the female perspective. There's the fact that he was a big fan of Sappho's poetry (as evidenced by him calling his partner 'Lesbia' and by his (beautiful!) reimagination of one of her most famous poems) or the fact that he was able to draw parallels between his and Ariadne's pain stemming from feeling betrayed by a former lover.

(I'm also kind of here for the interpretation of Lesbia's sparrow poem as an example of some kind of Pseudo-Freudian clit-neid...)

3. His brutal honesty/ him just wearing his heart on his sleeve in his writing

It just seems he had no filter whatsoever, so reading his poems is this incredibly raw, often times bizarre experience.

But to me, it demonstrates that even though our society has obviously changed quite a lot over the 2000 years that separate us from him, a lot of things that remained the same - the petty jealousies, ambivalent feelings after a breakup, but also the pure joy one feels after spending time with their friends and loved ones

4. His use of language and imagery

More evidence in my previous post. It just sounds so beautiful at times? Plus it often alludes to Greek/Roman mythology in really interesting ways. I'm sure reading the original would make it sound even better, but I'm personally a sucker for the Czech translation as well.

5. He was ahead of his time! (You could say he was a romantic poet almost 2000 years before it was cool...)

Again, by no means an expert of this, but I think you could definitely say he paved the way for some of the latter great Latin poets, like Ovid,

Some aspects of his poems to Lesbia also remind me of the courtly love poetry from the middle ages: the poet's desperate pining after a lady of a higher class - which Clodia, as a patrician woman married to a consul, undoubtedly was. There's of course the important difference that she has been... previously attained, to speak in the annoyingly gendered language of medieval poetry - but alas, no more Catullus!

But to me, he was most of all a forerunner to the romantic poets like Byron or Shelley! The talent, the scandals, the rejection of societal norms (like the fact that he didn't really seem to be too interested in a career in politics or the military which were essentially the two things a respectable Roman man was supposed to take interest in), as well as the homoeroticism of it all (in his case indisputable, re: his poems to Iuventius)...

Hope that covers it! Thanks again for the ask and giving me a chance to rant!

[cecils-dragons]

You could maybe draw byron again.. he's v handsome..... or maybe somethin with your merfolk lad. The purple one

My pen died so you're just getting Byron for now ;) I love putting him in outfits so much, especially those that can show off his eyes. My beautiful big beefy boy. Tits out!

[askthebrawlers]

Byron how u fall in love with Mortis? I'm curious 🥰

Mortis: He was relaxing after buying some chocolate, with the little sweet tooth that he has!

Byron: Mmng... Shut..

[spineless-lobster]

idk what a byronic hero is but i'm stoked to find out why thomas is one

I’ll give a brief rundown! I explain it more in the essay but lord knows when that’ll be done lol

Essentially a Byronic hero is a romantic hero who is often dramatic, brooding, plagued with a traumatic past, and is often arrogant. But underneath all of that he has a soft interior. Some examples are Mr. Darcy from Pride and Prejudice, Wirt from Over the Garden Wall, Edward Cullen from Twilight and Victor Frankenstein from Frankenstein

The trope is called “Byronic” because lord byron popularized the character in his writings, basing their personalities off of himself. (Though, there are Byronic characters that predate Byron, as seen in some of Shakespeare’s work)

And yes I will address the irony that Thomas is Byronic while also hating Byron, that is was sparked this whole thing lol