#ask: kosem sultan

[electricsoul-rpg]

BESTE KÖKDEMIR as Meleksima Sultan

Muhteşem Yüzyıl: Kösem / The Magnificent Century: Kösem s1 (2015-2016)

[noovva]

Beren Saat new 🩷💙

[horizon-verizon]

Hurrem and Kosem would’ve yelled at show Rhaenyra and Alicent once and these two would’ve cried themselves to sleep because HOTD doesn’t know how to handle ambitious women in power ready to spill blood, they’d rather have the consort and the heir spend the season crying and suffering WEAK ASS 🥺🥺 EMOJI ASS DOORMATS this fandom need to shut the fuck up with feminine soft power I don’t want the throne I don’t want bloodshed let my sons be beaten up in front of me like passive ass rhetoric have these writers ever heard of backbones ???

It’s so refreshing to watch Magnificent Century or even The White Queen because those women ARE NOT PASSIVE AND PALATABLE, most women on these shows would stop at nothing and have no moral qualms whatsoever in pursuing their own agenda. They have fire in them that comes out one way or another, they feel real, they aren’t just classic art teary doe eyed pinterest pale aesthetics barely alive on screen.

You have no fucking idea how much I love The White Queen & the White Princess...like, the whole thing, for some of its flaws, was fucking art.

And I agree with you! Elizabeth Woodville in that show, she had her flaws and her revenge was intellectually terrible...doesn't mean I couldn't understand nor that she wasn't a character I could recognize as a human being with their own thought processes and the writers managed to make her feel so real. I want real people, not characters made to make me or certain others (HotD's case, centrists and sexists and liberals) feel comfortable.

[ottomanladies]

Have there been any recent discoveries about the number of children Kösem had?

I personally would remove Gevherhan from the list of her children.

[haticesultanas]

Hi! Previously in Ottomanladies you answered an ask about marriages of Burnaz Atike, Gevherhan and little Atike. So, some historians confused Burnaz Atike with one of Ibrahim's daughters when they claim she married Musahib Cafer Pasha (d.1647) in 1630, as according to Giorgio Giustinian in 1627, Koca Kenan (d. 1652) was already married to Murad IV's sister (Pedani, p.596). And some historians say Gevherhan was the one who married Cafer in November 1646, like Sakaoglu.

And according to Joseph von Hammer, the youngest daughter of Ibrahim betrothed to Cafer was married to the other Kenan, Sari Kenan (d. 1659). But some historians separate the wives of these pashas as Gevherhan marrying Cafer and her sister Atike marrying Sari Kenan, with Atike going on to marry Ismail Pasha.

However, in "Dubrovacka akta i povelje", a report of 1650s refers to "Ghiusciahato sultana moglie di Chieman passa", so it seems to me she married Sari Kenan after Cafer died. And the "Mémoires du Sieur de la Croix" in 1670s, pages 368, 369, 370 and 371 says: "Les soeurs du Grand Seigneur (...) la premiere fut mariée à trois ans, & eftoit à dix avec fon second mary Affaki Mehemet Pasha, Gouverneur dAlep, il fuit étranglé fous pretexte de fauffe monnoye, & elle fe maria pour la troisiéme fois avec Ibrahim Pacha Tefterdar, du depuis Pacha du Kaire, dAlep, & enfin Capitan Pacha, aprés la mort duquel Jemblat Oglou Gouverneur du Kaire la épousée en quatriéme nopces. La seconde mariée auffi jeune que sa soeur, a eu cinq maris, dont le dernier la prit vierge, à cause dun défaut de nature (...) Je ne fcay pas le nom des deux premiers, le troisiéme fut Sinan Pacha, lequel estant Capitan Pacha, perdit la Bataille des Dardanelles (...) Le quetriéme eftoit Ismael Pacha, ce grand Seigneur l ayant choifi pour und es Lieutenans generaux de l armée dHongrie (...) Le cinquiéme sappelle Kassum Pacha, il est Chirurgien de profession"

The quote says Mehmed IV had 2 sisters in 1670s. The 1st married Haseki Cavuszade Mehmed Pasha, then Defterdar Ibrahim Pasha and then a Canpulatoglu (son of Kosems Fatma?). The other, younger than the first, was married to "Sinan" who was Kaptaniderya, so it should be Sari Kenan. After him she married Ismail Pasha and then Cerrah Kasim Pasha, and also had 2 husbands before the first.

(All in all, I believe the first sister who married Haseki Cavuszade could be Beyhan instead, as in 1653, according to "Dubrovacka akta i povelje" she is called "Behar sultana, moglie di passa di Cairo", and in 1563 this was Haseki Cavuszade Mehmed; but interestingly historians believe he was Gevherhans second husband instead...)

In "Per favore della Soltana", several lists give us marriages of Gevherhan. In 1648, she is called widow of Cafer, in 1662 she is wife of Ismail Pasha, and in 1670 she is called wife of Casciu Pascia who is probably Cerrah Kasim Pasha. And in 1676 and 1680, she is called wife of a Canpolatoglu and not another Sultana as Croix claimed.

Paul Rycaut in "The Present State of the Ottoman Empire" also says Gevherhan married Ismail Pasha (and then remarried to Gurcu Mehmed Pasha): "At this tenderness of age, Sultan Ibrahim, father of the present Grand Signior, married three of his daughters, one of which was called Gheaher Han Sultan, hath had already five husbands, and yet as is reported by the world, remains a virgin; the last husband deceased was Ishmael Pasha, who was slain in the passage of the River Raab; and is now again married to Guirgi Mehemet Pasha of Buda".

So it seems to me that Gevherhan married the following: Musahib Cafer in 1646, Sari Kenan in 1647, Ismail Pasha after him, then Gurcu Mehmed, then Cerrah Kasim Pasha, and then maybe a Canpulatoglu (unless that was the other sister like Croix claimed, maybe Beyhan?), before finally marrying Palabiyik Yusuf later in life.

But after all this, I want to ask whether its possible that this sister of Mehmed IV called Atike existed at all? Because it seems quite certain that Gevherhan married Kenan Pasha and Ismail Pasha, not one named Atike, and historians did make a confusion with Burnaz Atikes marriages. And if little Atike didnt exist, was Gevherhan the full-sister of Mehmed IV instead? I know Gevherhan is believed to be born in 1642, and with Mehmed and Fatma it gets too much for Turhan, but Hammer describes her as the youngest daughter in 1647, and if the sister who married Haseki Mehmed was Beyhan, and she was reportedly married for the first time to another at the age of 3 as Croix claims, and the sister who married Sari Kenan and the others was younger than her, then Beyhan could still be born in 1645 as she married Hezarpare in 1648, and Gevherhan was born after her...

Hi! Please be patient with me because these asks take time to unwrap and I’m only doing this in my free time.

I think you’re talking about this ask. About the confusion, it’s something that Uluçay too believes:

Alderson confused the daughters of Ahmed I, Murad IV and Sultan Ibrahim, so he made mistakes.

Alderson confused the daughters of Ibrahim with the daughters of Ahmed I and Mehmed IV, and therefore made some mistakes.

and he’s right because the rapid successions plus the practice of marrying princesses as children created so much confusion.

(it’s so funny that he says that twice lmao)

Okay, so your theory is that Atike Sultan binti Ibrahim doesn’t exist and that some historians seem to have mistaken Burnaz Atike with a daughter of Ibrahim? I hope I understood well.

Everything under the read more (it's very... heavy, sorry lol)

I read Giustiniani’s relazione and the math is not really mathing because he says Murad IV put his four brothers-in-law at the highest posts of government but then mentions five brothers-in-law:

Çatalcalı Haşan Pasha: he’s Fatma’s husband

Hafiz Ahmed Pasha: he’s Ayşe’s husband

Bayram Pasha: he’s Hanzade’s husband

(Recep Pasha: he’s Gevherhan’s husband) > Giustiniani only mentions her as Osman II's elder sister

“Chinan” who, you believe, was Koca Sofu Kenan Pasha

“Mustaffà” ?? who is he??

Sicill-i Osmani says that Kenan Pasha married Burnaz Atike in 1633-34, but Giustinian’s last dispatch from Istanbul was dated 4 July 1627 so… did he foresee the future? Were there more Kenan Pashas?

(Also, who is that Mustafa??)

Now, onto Ibrahim's daughters.

So, I made this table to semplify things because I was going insane with all the information.

I think there is some confusion between Haseki Mehmed Pasha, who was strangled in Aleppo in June 1661 (like de la Croix says), and Çavuşzade/Çavuşoğlu Mehmed Paşa, who lived until 1681. Sicill-i Osmani doesn’t call the latter “Haseki” but he’s identified as Gevherhan Sultan’s husband. Now, the princess who married Haseki Mehmed Pasha could have remarried after 1661, but the one who married Çavuşzade/Çavuşoğlu Mehmed had to wait until 1681.

Beyhan is admittedly a mistery because she was married for less then a year to Hezâr-pâre Ahmed Pasha when she was little but afterwards didn’t have a husband for 11 years? It seems strange. If the Ragusian diplomats called her “wife of the pasha of Cairo” and if Haseki Mehmed Pasha was beylerbey of Egypt in 1653 (as Oztuna confirms in Devletler ve Hanedanlar), then Haseki Mehmed Pasha was married to Beyhan binti Ibrahim. Unfortunately my only Ragusian sources come from the essay Per Favore Della Soltana, and in it there’s a gap between a letter dated 1648 and one dated 1662.

About the Canpulatoğlu Pasha, I would like to add that Canbulad-zâde Mustafa Paşa had two sons with Fatma: Sultânzâde Hüseyn Paşa, who was governor of Budin and of Egypt, and Sultânzâde Süleymân Bey. Both lived to adulthood. Moreover, he had a daughter from his previous marriage: Ayşe Hâtûn. Maybe he had other sons too. It is interesting, though, that de la Croix says Canpulatoğlu is Governor of Egypt, because Sultânzâde Hüseyn Paşa was indeed governor of Egypt at some point.

About Atike binti Ibrahim:

(Uluçay doesn't believe she existed)

As we can see, Oztuna and Sakaoğlu use the same source. Oztuna, though, says that Atike binti Ibrahim was buried in Ibrahim’s mausoleum, while Sakaoğlu says that her burial place is unknown. Curiously, Atike binti Ahmed I is buried in Ibrahim’s mausoleum too.

Since Alderson gave his sources, I went to check. This is a passage from Histoire de l’Empire Ottoman, volume 12, pp. 49-50:

L'ainée, Aïsché, fiancée dès l'age de trois ans à Ipschir-Pascha, épousa à dix Mohammed-Pascha, gouverneur de Haleb; ce dernier ayant été décapité comme faux monnoyeur, elle devint la femme du defterdar Ibrahim, gouverneur du Kaire, puis de Haleb, et alors kapitan-pascha; à sa mort, elle fut mariée à Djanbouladzadé, ancien gouverneur d’Ofen, qui depuis remplit les mêmes fonctions au Kaire. La seconde, nommée Aatika, épousa d'abord le vizir Kenaan-Pascha, puis le vizir Yousouf-Pascha, et en troisième lieu le kapitan Sinan-Pascha, qui avait perdu la bataille des Dardanelles contre les Vénitiens; elle eut pour quatrième époux Ismail-Pascha, grand-inquisiteur en Asie, qui fut tué à la bataille de Saint-Gotthardt; enfin elle contracta une cinquième union avec KasimPascha, l'un des pages de la chambre intérieure, et chirurgien de profession, qui, lors de la circoncision du sultan Mohammed , sut arrêter, au moyen d'une poudre astringente, une hémorrhagie qui avait fait tomber le prince-en défaillance, service que ce dernier récompensa plus tard en donnant à Kasim le gouvernement de Temeswar. […] le Sultan, en reconnaissance du sang qu'il lui avait conservé, refusa de répandre le sien, et, pour le sauver, lui donna la main de sa sœur, qu’un vice de conformation avait empêchée d'appartenir à ses premiers maris, et qui, après dix-neuf ans de mariage, entra vierge dans le harem de Kasim. Celui-ci la délivra de son infirmité au moyen d'ine opération qu’il pratiqua pendant le sommeil d'Aatika, assoupie par un narcotique. Ce fut ainsi qu'il acquit des titres puissans aux bonnes grâces de la princesse, comme précédemment il avait mérité la faveur particulière de Mohammed IV.

Doesn’t it kind of sound like de la Croix (below)? I think Hammer’s source is him.

"La premiere fut mariée à trois ans, & estoit à dix avec son second mary Assaki Mehemet Pasha, Gouverneur d’Alep, il fut étranglé sous pretexte de fausse monnoye, & elle se maria pour la troisiéme fois avec Ibrahim Pacha Tefterdar, du depuis Pacha du Kaire, d’Alep, & enfin Capitan Pacha, aprés la mort duquel Jemblat Oglou Gouverneur du Kaire l’a épousée en quatriéme nopces. La seconde mariée aussi jeune que sa soeur, a eu cinq maris, dont le dernier la prit vierge, à cause d’un défaut de nature (...) Je ne sçay pas le nom des deux premiers, le troisiéme fut Sinan Pacha, lequel estant Capitan Pacha, perdit la Bataille des Dardanelles (...) Le quetriéme estoit Ismael Pacha, ce grand Seigneur l’ayant choisi pour un des Lieutenans generaux de l’armée d’Hongrie (...) Le cinquiéme s’appelle Kassum Pacha, il est Chirurgien de profession”

Now, I think Hammer starts with a mistake because Ibsir Mustafa Pasha was one of Ayşe binti Ahmed I’s husbands. Also, it’s impossible to say where he found that Mehmed IV’s eldest sister was named Ayşe. After these mistakes, though, he repeats what de la Croix said: Haseki Mehmed Pasha, Defterdar Ibrahim Pasha, Canbuladzâde Pasha. The second sister is named Atike (so he says) and stayed a virgin until her last husband, Cerrah Kasim Pasha, operated on her to solve some kind of physical problem she had. This story is similar to the one reported by Rycaut, but he named her Gevherhan instead:

At this tenderness of Age, Sultan Ibrahim, Father of the present Grand Signior, married three of his Daughters; one of which called Gheaher Han Sultan, hath had already five Husbands, and yet, as is reported by the World, remains a Virgin; the last Husband deceased was Ishmael Pasha, who was slain in the passage of the River Raab; and is now again married to Gurgi Mahomet Pasha of Buda, a Man of 90 Years of Age, but rich and able to maintain the greatness of her Court, though not to comply with the youthfulness of her Bed, to which he is a stranger like the rest of her preceding Husbands. — p. 40.

It’s possible that Rycaut had already left the Ottoman Empire when this princess married Cerrah Kasim Pasha. He’s the only one talking about Gurci Mehmed Pasha, though… Interestingly, Sakaoğlu corrects Rycaut’s Gürcü into “(Çavuşzade, Haseki)” but, admittedly, his quote is quite different from Rycaut’s original. In Sakaoğlu’s it is said that the pasha is 30, while Rycaut says he’s 90. Moreover, as far as I know, Çavuşzade Mehmed Pasha was never governor of Buda.

In conclusion, I’m more confused than before lol

As for Mehmed IV’s full sister, I really have no opinion on this. Usually, it’s Beyhan who is given as Turhan Hatice’s daughter but with no hard evidence.

You (and other people) can send me asks on ottomanladies now, I have re-opened my ask box. As I have already said, please be patient with me because I don't have much free time and these things need to be analyzed properly :D

[lemonhemlock]

If Viserys wanted Rhaenyra on the Iron Throne so bad and change the unwritten rule that woman cannot sit on this throne he should have made an actual order. In show called magnificent century, Kosem sultan changes cruel rule in Ottoman Empire that says the one who ascends the throne has to kill all his brothers. How she did that? Seconds after her husband, Sultan Ahmed died she wrote on piece of paper that this rule no longer exist and the throne will go to the oldest son (before even the youngest son could have a throne if he managed to kill all of his older brothers) so brothers murdering each other for throne rule ended. And after writing this on piece of paper she put sultan seal there so it was basically an edyct, a new rule to apply to, ordered by sultan (even though he was dead at that moment but no one except Kosem knew). And by this she made sure her sons won't brutally execute each other. Viserys could have done it basically in episode 1 or even after Aegon was born. Saying Rhaenyra is heir means nothing after sons were born. He should have solidified her right to rule by writing something like this and showing it to every lord so they would all know it was king's order that Rhaenyra will be Queen not King's whim based on the fact he didn't want Daemon to be his heir.

Between the point in time where I received this ask and today, I think I managed to answer something similar here and here (including @duxbelisarius' addition about Dorne, which I had forgotten to mention).

I have heard of Magnificent Century, but I haven't had the chance to watch it, so I can't really comment on what Kosem did. Unfortunately, I am not versed in Ottoman sultanate inheritance either, beyond the basic premise of brothers killing each other for the throne. :)) So I don't really feel confident in performing a comparative analysis between Kosem's fake edict and 12th Century England (Anarchy time - the civil war the Dance is based off).

My main concern with this is that I don't think the solution would have been as simple as "writing a piece of paper", otherwise Viserys would have done it and, most importantly, the real-life king Henry I would have done it for his real-life daughter Matilda, whom he very much wanted to succeed him. The fact that the Anarchy still happened leads me to believe that common law (especially regarding such an important topic as inheritance to the throne) couldn't really be changed that easily.

There are so many different types of feudal societies that some historians dispute the use of the term, but for Westeros specifically we seem to be operating on the basic understanding of a politically weak(-ish) King* with a collection of very powerful vassals. I say this because the King only seems to have the Crownlands + Dragonstone as his own personal lands, from which to derive his own resources & taxes, which are of questionable profitability (as highlighted in the linked posts). Everything else seems to be based on what his vassals agree to give him. eg. they should be in charge of tax collection in their own lands; if the King raises taxes to (what they consider to be an) unfair level, who is to say they won't just skim off their tributes and lie about it? The King imposing his own tax collectors who worked directly for the Crown was one of the steps towards dismantling feudalism and creating a more centralised state, if I am not mistaken. Similarly, if the King tries to impose a certain law that proves to be unpopular, who is to say that his vassals will just agree to it?

*Ofc, Targaryen Kings have something no one really does - dragons - which gives them an important power advantage. But they still have to haggle and please their vassals to a certain extent because going on dragonback and burning down the subjects who disagree with you every time is not only Not A Good Look, it's also not feasible. You can't go to war every time you have a disagreement.

Also, important to note that at the time of Rhaenyra being made heir, Viserys' Balerion had been long dead. Rhaenyra was teenage girl, he wasn't going to send her off in any kind of military expeditions. Daemon was the only actual dragon threat, yet he was hardly willing to be fighting any battles that invalidated his claim to the throne.

Anyway, not to digress too much, this is only to imagine a scenario in which Viserys issued such an edict after Aegon's birth, confirming Rhaenyra as heir and trying to pass it off as law -> disgruntled vassals -> need for military reprisals to subjugate them into accepting this new law. I think Viserys realised this really was a pain in the arse and decided to not complicate his life too much and leave things vague in the hopes that "everyone will get along in the end" (he really is non-confrontational if he can avoid it).

But, obviously, enough people in Westeros disagreed that the original oaths were still valid after Aegon's birth* - a complication Viserys had no idea how to solve, so he just avoided it as much as possible. It's also historical fact that two different sets of oath-taking were not enough to ensure Matilda's crown after her father died, so I would really question the practical impact these vows had as a legal instrument. It's very easy as a noble lord to nod your head whenever the King verbally insists his eldest daughter will succeed him, while planning to throw your support to her brother anyway after he dies.

*In addition, a contract cannot be enforced if the terms that lead to the signing of that contract no longer exist; there are legal concepts such as force majeure that account for this. When those oaths were taken, Rhaenyra was an only child, and their options as heir were Rhaenyra or Daemon. When Viserys died, Rhaenyra had three legitimate younger brothers.

[misc-obeyme]

Hey, Hi, so it has been a while. I don't know if you remember my Hurrem Sultan request, but you did an amazing job with it. The reason I asked for it was because Hurrem was a successful person who literally did the impossible and ruled the world. Same with Kosem who did even more the impossible. Hurrem managed to marry the sultan, which was against the rules for a sultan to marry a slave, and Hurrem opened opportunities for other women to marry the sultan as it became normal. While Kosem did the impossible, too. She was the padishah (Ruler), in Ottoman Empire only men were allowed to rule, that's why Kosem was that girl! Athough after her death, they never let a woman rule because of her, it shows how powerful Kosem was.

I was focusing on the fact that such a person can be so ambitious and determined with big impossible dreams. I would say I find myself between Hurrem and Kosem, who managed to achieve their goals while being fierce, cunning, manipulative and passionate. My MC is also like that, and she achieves that success in my story. Though she became ruthless, I made in my story that she wanted what was rightfully hers, by the antagonist who became successful and would feed his power by the fans and huge loyal base about his creations. My Mc managed to kill the antagonist but she learned that his creations would become history and never die, and will continue as a legacy by others. So she took measurements, forced to kill the innocent ones, she wiped out every single creation of his work and the old generations, It wasn't even history, literally brain washed the new generations, under her rule, so yeah she did the impossible. Ayo don't judge me I'm feeling creative right now-

I always have my phrase "Success is my second name.

I'm not asking for any requests, just the brothers opinions on my MC.

Pretty please~

Oh well, hello there, anon! I do indeed remember that request because I had to do a decent amount of research into who that even was lol. What can I say, I'm a USAmerican, they don't teach us about history in other places.

Anyway, I'm not sure if I could give any better insight into their opinions on your MC than you could? I mean, you know your own MC far better than I do! So however you imagine the brothers would react to her is accurate!

It sounds like you have a whole story based around your MC that is canon divergent. If there was an antagonist that she had to kill and so on, it's hard for me to say how I think the brothers would react without knowing the full story.

I also think it depends somewhat on how you choose to characterize the brothers. I usually make them quite fluffy myself, but sometimes I like to characterize them as being more demonic. And it kinda sounds like the more demonic versions would fit better with an MC like this.

For instance, I think Lucifer would see an MC with that kind of ambition as a threat. Assuming your MC still has pacts with him and his brothers, we've seen how stressed out Lucifer gets when he thinks someone is controlling them without their permission. Even if he's loyal to your MC, he might try to control her himself in order to make sure his brothers stay safe.

I think some of the other brothers are going to be more likely to fall into a place of loyalty to her. Like they're content to let her control them and they'll do whatever she wants. I see Mammon and the twins being like this in particular. Levi to a certain extent, but I also see him fighting back a bit because he doesn't like having to do things that disrupt his preferred lifestyle. Satan's gonna fight the whole way but never get anywhere unless he can work with Lucifer and like... good luck there. Asmo is more likely to allow her to believe she's controlling him, but he's really the one who's getting what he wants from her.

Anyway, those are my quick thoughts, but again, your own ideas are probably going to make more sense than mine!

[gulnarsultan]

What do think about reader being immorality or being from our time?( Your choice.) Like she ends up in the harem of yandere Suliyman or Murat IV

An interesting and beautiful request. You are a fan of the magnificent century and the magnificent century kosem series. You always read a lot of books about the Ottoman period. You always dream about Sultan Süleyman and Sultan Murat 4. One day, you are sleeping in front of the TV while watching the series. When you open your eyes, you realize that you are in another place. When you look around, you realize that you are in the harem. You are alarmed and afraid. You are looking for ways to go back in a few days. But you can't find any solution. You are chosen by Valide Sultan. In the evening, you are sent to the Sultan's room. Sultan (Süleyman/Murat) falls in love the first time he sees you. Sultan spends most of his time with you. Hünkar tells the truth and asks for help. However, Sultan does not want to send you. You get pregnant in no time. Hünkar gives you more than one child so you don't run away. There are always guards around you. Now you need to focus on your new life. You must fight to protect your children.

[deathmetalunicorn1]

Hey! I finally have a question to ask lol, I wanted to ask a lot of things and forgot, but here's one.

Have you seen Game of Thrones? Oh House of the Dragon? I'm not much of watching novels (I see summaries haha) but how about you.

Or the Turkish series, I love the one from Magnificent Century that speaks of Sultan Suleiman and Sultana Hurrem and the one from Kosem the sultana. But I'm straying, if you've already asked this question I apologize for repeating it, bye! Lots of love for you!

I know of both of the series, Game of Thrones and House of Dragons, but I have not watched either of them other than a few clips (mainly with Jason Mamoa <3)

I unfortunately don't know of the Turkish series you mentioned as well. I'm not a super big series watcher unless if it's something like Great British Baking shows or things like that.

Thank you for your kind words my dear one :)

[thegreatsultana]

anon requested: kösem sultan & sultan ahmed - wedding night → 1.24 “winter garden”

[mc-critical]

How do you find the relationship between each sultana from SOW and their trusted eunuchs (Hurrem&Sumbul/Nurbanu&Gazanfer/Safiye&Bulbul/Kosem&Haci/Turhan&Suleyman)? I loved Hurrem and Sumbul by S04 when he truly became devoted to her, I feel he also looked for his interest after valide's death in S03, similar to Haci somehow, but I always felt that Safiye never got that close as the other sultanas to Bulbul, or is just me or perhaps her cold personality (she loved power above all after all)

Hürrem and Sümbul is clearly the relationship that got most attention and development and it was an interesting turn in both Hürrem and Sümbul's characters. The fact that their cooperation began in the end of S02 is very fitting, because that was the season and the arc of status-quo changes, a point where they both were searching for allies. The strive of Hürrem's to find loyal servants was presented as far as the beginning of the season (and by the point Sümbül came over, she already had the first political ally in the face of Iskender Celebi) and Sümbül, who tried to be in every sultana's good graces until then, sought his interest and benefit and then the two crossed paths in a small, yet crucial moment. Their relationship did undergo an evolution: it was interesting how such a well oriented in the harem, yet servile character who was known for pleasing all the forces in the harem (SS, Valide, Mahidevran, Hürrem) and move back and forth between them, ended up becoming so loyal to one person to the point of fully bonding with them.

On one hand, Sümbül's servility is one of the things I enjoyed the most about him and I agree that S03 is the more dry part of their relationship, there it was more of a normal dynamic between a sultana and an eunich who has to fulfill her orders, so to say. Sümbül's transition to loyalty to Hürrem was more gradual: first he went with her out of necessity and not really having a choice after the convincing words of hers ("do you want to be loyal to Mahidevran and be a part of the past or do you want to be a part of the future?" or something like that), then he stayed because there was no other sultana currently residing in Topkapi and only focused on doing his duty and then he bonded with her over time. His relationship with Hürrem and S04 overall revealed a big vulnerability of his character: he had bonded to the castle, to its rules and games, to Hürrem so much that he felt miserable for betraying her secrets to the spy by mistake and for ever upsetting her, he let himself tell her that part of his story he would probably never want to recall otherwise and he couldn't handle leaving the harem and her service. Maybe he adapted so much to the system that he had to go by the waves and forget what's morally right and wrong or thought only Hürrem could understand him or how he felt, at least for a while. Hürrem also had an evolution regarding him: first I feel she treated him closer to Rüstem, demanding loyalty and obedience and only in S04 she could open up to him and fully appreciate him. I loved their calmer scenes the most (especially when they drunk coffee together 💓), these were the points they could relax and escape from the hierarchical boundaries even for a moment and they showed that they actually like to be around the other outside of orders and obligations. The scenes with Sümbül contrasted with the otherwise quite ruthless S04 Hürrem and were a good breathing room after all the tension and densely-packed plot of the season. I do really like them, this is one of Hürrem's best relationships (which far outmatched Afife and Fahriye, imo).

Nurbanu and Gazanfer are probably the dynamic most similar to Şah and Mercan (which is my favourite eunich-sultana relationship, btw, for the way they complemented each other and how unique both of their characters were) due to the unrequited love Gazanfer felt for Nurbanu and him willing to die for her. While Hürrem and Sümbül had more mutual soft spots for each other, here Gazanfer is the one with the soft spot: we see how dedicated he was from the very start. By contrast, I think Nurbanu didn't view him as so much more than her loyal, trusted aga. Not that she didn't appreciate him at all, of course, and she by no means would want to lose him and was certainly moved in a way by what he thought of her and how far he was willing to go for her, but there wasn't much of a feeling or bond concerned here, probably because of Nurbanu's colder and more pragmatic nature. For me, she was the one that bonded the least with her eunich, compared to everyone else. We didn't see all that much of them, though, and we had more usual interactions between an eunich and a sultana only with a few distinct scenes here or there, more later on than early on. Again, while Nurbanu was moved by his dedication, we saw her demanding him to quickly come to his senses for his own good and pretend everything's normal or else he may be in trouble. Nurbanu wasn't much in the mood for bigger sentiment that didn't include her love for Selim, since her arc was more about at least repressing her human principles bit by bit. (by killing Nazenin, a person who has been with her before coming to the castle, losing a precious thing to her - her dog, and then questioning whether a father could kill his son, and then motivating Selim to fight that war without so much scruples etc.) I wish we saw more of Gazanfer and her, to be honest, even though they're fine like this too.

Safiye and Bülbül are fascinating. Safiye indeed is a cold sultana, heartless to her own enemies and willing to keep her power at any cost, discarding any kind of morality or moral responsibility that comes with this power itself, but her scenes with Bülbül, along with her reaction to her children's deaths and her first scene with Hümaşah, were the more vulnerable and human parts of her character. We had scenes where she scolded him for something going wrong or when she demanded something of him, but they were as much as them looking more like close companions, compared to Safiye's other relationships. The way she talks to him outside of the times where she scolds him is just different and her appreciating so much him and his loyalty is a side she rarely shows. It's clear she cares for Bülbül and that despite of all, she has given him a reason to care. Bülbül is the eunich most attached to his sultana - look at the amount of genuine feel: he's happy for her wins and sad, devastated by her losses and while he certainly had a soft spot for Kösem, he would never give Safiye up, ever. He would always believe in her and stand for what she stood for. He cherished her with all his heart and that is moving, this guy has a heart of gold and he should get all the happiness he deserves and get out of this horrible harem!!

I always viewed Haci and Kösem as the relationship most built by time. It's like in the end, Kösem is glad he's with her for all these years and the fact that in the end it was Haci that stayed with Kösem when even Kemankeş refused to go through poisoning the little Mehmed in the finale (though his loyalty to her, to the real her never wavered), was also meaningful for me in the way that Haci has accepted to be with her until the end, no matter what she did. What's unique about both of them is Haci being more of a voice of experience for Kösem. He would be there to recall the past since he has seen nearly everything in this harem. (like he did once recall Handan's fate) He is a person that would seek interest like everyone else, of course, in S01, but he did have a loyalty before Kösem, to Handan and he was moving to Kösem when that was gone. I don't think she began to trust Haci in S01 all the sudden, but by S02 we saw the mutual trust they shared. Kösem could also be calm and laid back with him, I feel she could forget about her problems for a bit in his company.

I don't have much to say about Turhan and Süleyman. Just like everything with her and her character, I couldn't feel any sort of emotion and it was all about the facade of hers she had to keep for a goal. She was relying on him to do his duty and be loyal to her and that's it. I couldn't see anything genuine in her. Süleyman himself seemed glad to fulfill her every need and was considerate with her, but that's about it. Their dynamic was underdeveloped, even though the interactions they had were not so little. It was still close to a functional dynamic when it comes to Turhan.

[electricsoul-rpg]

BESTE KÖKDEMIR as Meleksima Sultan

Muhteşem Yüzyıl: Kösem / The Magnificent Century: Kösem s1 (2015-2016)

[noovva]

Beren Saat - Last Call For İstanbul 🔜

[ottomanladies]

Hi!! Do you know why Kösem didn’t stop Ibrahim’s execution? Do you think Kösem could be described as a tyrant? Also, what do you think of the decision of the showrunners/writers (of MCK) to make Kösem seem like a woman capable of murdering her own children/grandchildren for power? I mean, there’s no historical evidence that states that Kösem was behind Murad’s death neither Ibrahim’s, as far as I know or is there? It made me so sad and disappointed the writing for the last episodes, especially bc it made Kösem look like a cruel person towards her own family, not a loving mother anymore just a power hungry woman that would sit on the throne and depose any prince as far as there were more alive to occupy the throne if needed. I know it’s a DRAMA show but there was no need to make Kösem’s character act like that. The real story is interesting enough so why not rely mostly on that?! Sorry this was long but I have so many questions, just finished the show and I love Kösem, I want to learn more about her and your blog is really helpful and resourceful, thank you💖

Mmh I think that Kösem didn't have the power to stop Ibrahim's execution, because the conspirators had obtained a fatwa (judicial approval) from the Şeyhülislam, which is the highest religious authority in the Ottoman empire. I don't think Kösem expected Ibrahim to be executed (because in the end Mustafa I wasn't, in 1623) but she couldn't do anything to prevent the execution; Ibrahim's deposition was done within the rule of law: fatwas were asked by the conspirators, the Valide Sultan was notified about it and she had to sanction it. Technically, it was all legal, even the fatwa for Ibrahim's execution, which was done on the interpretation of parts of the Qur'an by the Şeyhülislam.

About Murad IV's death, you're right in saying that there is no historical evidence that Kösem ever tried to kill or depose her eldest son. Unfortunately the last episodes about Murad IV's reign in MC:K are a mess. Kösem is completely out-of-character and unfortunately the "legend" that Murad IV asked to have Ibrahim killed so the empire could pass to the Crimean Khans was reiterated.

On the other hand, it is true that Kösem wanted to depose Mehmed IV (because of Turhan): she seems to have said in public that he was feeble and weak and unsuited to rule the empire. Of course Mehmed was only a child so he was excused if he didn't know how to show strength, and Kösem knew that but she had another goal; she needed a more pliable mother to work with (or more like to just ignore)

Another problem about the end of MC:K is that they were trying to wrap up a show that should have had another season (one only about Ibrahim's reign) but the views didn't allow that. This is why Ibrahim's reign is dealt with in three episodes and why you can't really understand why Kösem reaches the conclusion that Mehmed IV needs to be deposed (and, I think, this is also why Turhan is presented as a schemer from the start). In the show, it seems like Kösem just wakes up one morning with the desire of getting Suleyman on the throne instead of Mehmed (also because you don't really see Turhan's meddling in the empire's affairs); the truth was it was a desperate move, the last option in a list of actions she first took to ensure that Turhan's faction didn't grow and didn't become influential. As I have said, all of this couldn't be portrayed in one episode.

I am very glad you’re liking my blog :D

[humasahsultanim]

turhan hatice sultan + koprulu mehmed pasha ✦ magnificent century kosem

[feo-oliau]

Mag - Kasım 2018 part 2