#at the beginning of the pacifist route chara's like: 'WHY did I have to get stuck with a human of all things? ugh'

[shimmershy]

Chara can stand exactly ONE human. That's it.

[carlyraejepsans]

Wanted to send this for a while but I'm stoked that you're also on the "the fallen human is meant to be named the player's/your name" train. Imo it's kind of a shame that we discovered Chara as "the true name," because I think it allows for a mental separation between the player and their actions in a way that dilutes the experience of Undertale. Some people have this mentality that it's not you, the player, doing all those terrible things -- it's Chara! Chara is possessing Frisk! When, no, Frisk is the vessel for the player. The remnants of Chara's memory/determination may be there as well, as evidenced by narration in the Geno route, but my take is that the part of Chara that is lingering is shaped by the players actions, too. It's nice to know the fallen human's true name so that we can talk about Chara as an in-universe character, but I think who Chara was and the "demon" that takes their form at the end of the Geno route are actually separate things -- because that figure at the end is a manifestation of the player's/your will; it's the culminating evidence of your actions, and not something that exists all along whether you play a Geno route or not. It's you. That's how I think about it, at least.

Also... inspecting the coffin of the 1st human and seeing your own name on it? That moment slaps and it loses its potency when you don't use your own name on the first run, if you're going in not knowing the lore.

seconding pretty much everything you said here. the only thing I'd add is that, in my interpretation, chara is meant to represent not just You you, but "you" as in "the intended audience for undertale when toby had no idea it would blow up like this", which is specifically RPG fans.

undertale is a commentary/prank call/love letter to that genre, after all, and the key of its message lies in challenging that violence, that unquestioned reality that you should mow down enemies to advance with the game. chara falling into the underground after running away from child abuse, the "kill or be killed" mentality that generated from that, their idea of helping monsterkind involving 1) excruciating self-sacrifice, 2) destroying humanity to let monsters rule the surface... i think chara's meant to symbolize the state of RPG players before then. violence being taken for granted, and for a good reason! it's not like most games gave you a peaceful alternative.

but... the plan fails. you don't kill, so you get killed. simple right? that's how it was always going to go. game's over... until it's not.

because the game's just beginning.

and here is why I'm such a big defender of the "the last fallen human is a reincarnation of the first and frisk in the pacifist run specifically is what is still standing after the ghost of that first child is put to rest" theory. after YOUR grief and violence and unfinished business are put to rest. until YOUR notion (as an RPG player) that "it's kill or be killed" is proven wrong. i think that's why it's so important that flowey is framed alongside you as a mirror to ye average player. and i think THAT'S why we only learn frisk's name in a pacifist run after the asriel fight, where we literally dig up asriel and chara's memories and exorcise them from the story, finally putting them at rest. it's also why the merch keeps calling frisk "the human" even though there are so many bigger spoilers everywhere, and why it doesn't matter if the neutral endings don't make sense (where does the human go. where did they get the monster soul if flowey shattered asgore's? did they cross the barrier? are they dead?) because they're not really endings are they? flowey says so himself "don't you have ANYTHING better to do?"

IT'S USING THE MECHANIC OF RESETTING A GAME TO REPRESENT HAUNTING. THE PLAYER IS THE GHOST, THE GAME IS WHAT IT HAUNTS. that's why the pacifist ending is the True Ending! because as long as you have unfinished business (remember, chara died by the hand of the same humans that abused them. violence was their world and that world broke them), you'll keep haunting the story!

as for the chara sprite, i also agree that it's something we can only see in genocide, and I don't think it's a coincidence that in the pacifist run and the once upon a time cutscene they always have their face covered. chara IS you. that's the whole plotwist of the entire goddamn game!! of course, they had to have their own characteristics and quirks and life inside the game, in the same way that you don't live in a world with pokemons in it, but the MC are still supposed to represent you and have your name. there's an inevitable seam between where you, individual player, connects to "you" your representation in the game itself, for the simple reason that the game can't read your mind. as long as you do the right thing, that seam blends into nothing.

during a genocide run though? sans said it best: "the more you hurt, the easier it is to distance from yourself". other characters actively point out your lack of emotion and weird distant behavior. the more you kill, the more you pull on that seam until it rips apart completely. THAT'S why you meet "chara" face to face at the end. you completely estranged them from yourself.

and now things are out of your hands.

don't say they didn't warn ya

[bobipineman]

I once wondered if a crossover of undertale and mortasheen do exist, how it would work. So was thinking about the main character... and begin to design them

Frisk: From the wraith civilisation. They have fallen from on a damaged celestial engin Toriel: a difformed goat like mutant, quickly took frisk as one of her many lost lambs and take care of them even if they are unwilling and fleeing her clutch Sans: Mysterious weirdo who is able to do weird spatio-temporal stuff. Maybe not a 'skeleton' after all Papyrus: Sans ''brother'' gullible and can be even befriended but technically a dangerous killing machine Undyne: A vampiric merfolk knight. Patrol the blood cavern in search of intruder Alphys: You average run of the mile mad scientist but darker than the original undertale (not as edgy as underfail but something that rhyme with a poor grasp of what can be considered ethical and no remorse) Napstablook: (ghost and spiritual thing aren't technically canon in mortasheen, but the definition of science in the setting was already stretchy) A psychic manifestation of a deceased person.. Temmy: A experimental mistake who were thrown in a dump. It have spred and build a small "town'' in here Mettaton: pretty much the same as his undertale version but more biopunk(ir: a brain in a machine) Asgore: A powerful but fair darklord that control his small empire with a firm hand. Hate the wraith for some reason flowey/Asriel: The son of toriel and asgore, he received occult experiment on him to help them fight the wraith resulting in the birth of ''flowey'' Flowey is full of resent about what his ''parent did and want the whole world burn Muffet: just your average muffet but a lot bigger

Further oddity of the AU

-The respawn system isn't based on determination. But on cloning. They're some cloning machine spread everywhere on the city, you just need a DNA sample and a clone is spawn when you die (the pacifist/genocide route will be very different or even a complety different nature if their no permadeath) -Frisk didn't receive a phone from toriel but some kind of goat headed worm that she detached from her body. Frisk will wear the creature on their back as it will serve as a some sort of spiritual guide

How the AU can work and some specific story point Undertale AU usually copy the term and story of the original even if it contradictory. (the best exemple is underfail/horrortale who just use the same plot point but try to make it edgier sometime it just dosen't work or barely make any sense) Some plot point may be kept but he whole story and it nature may be changed.. Like rather to kill or not to kill system. It more of a keep your humanity system (rather than the genocide route it the extremly hard YOLO route, no save(cloning) to achieve it -There some rivalery with the wraith and underworld -The celestial machine have weapon of mass destruction -Asgore tried in vain to defeat them -A ''un-exister'' kind of device lie somewhere in the world. It own reality is hotly debated. Sans seem to be aware of it existence -Nobody can truly ''die''(not impossible but vaporising a poor mofo who didn't have any cloning data seem to be the only normal way to permakill) but they will be still pretty pissed if you kill them -frisk wasn't the only member of the wraith who have fallen -Frisk have something inside them, so that why asgore is addement to retrieve it dead body something necessary to build a super weapon -On the main reason why everyone want to take frisk, is they are a ''genetically pure'' human -the amalgate are failed alphys experiment. Some kidnapped human something something involving soul and true immortality (chara vs frisk is kinda murky here, maybe chara itself is just some AI generated tough of wiping clean the earth of all ''evil'') may elaborate later when I will get idea...

[moonfang256]

To finish with these theories, I'm going to tell you one last one I've regarding Kris and the reason why Chara and probably Frisk fell on Mt. Ebott.

It can be said it all starts with Deltarune where we see that Kris has a huge resentment towards the player and wants to do something somehow. This will likely end up causing what is known as "The Roaring" and the Deltarune universe will collapse.

Kris's plan probably has to do with wanting to be a player to control the real player, but something will go wrong and he'll end up in the Undertale universe alongside Sans, but not the way he expected.

Now, let's remember that in each universe there are different variants of the same person. For example Delta Undyne being a police officer and Under Undyne being a royal guard. Here's the interesting thing:  Apparently the variant of Kris in the Undertale universe could be Frisk himself. The point here is: Kris became Chara and ended up taking Frisk's place.

Frisk (Under Kris) was the one who had to meet Asgore, Toriel and Asriel from the beginning, but due to a bug or something, it was Chara (Delta Kris) who swap place with him. Story was rewritten, and taking advantage of this, Chara once again searched for a way to control the player. That's why he did what he did and became in a megalomaniac spirit determined to control and destroy the player in many ways. 

After a few years, Frisk returns with the player inside of him to finish this off and all Chara wants is to have “fun” with them. If we do the pacifist route, Frisk and the player take control and Chara's plan fails, getting lost in the dark. However, if we do the genocide route Chara gets what he wants.

Now, we don't know why Kris has so much hate for the player (apart from the control we've over him), but maybe later on we'll know why he went too far for it.

That's all I've for now and I remind you this is just a theory. There are still missing pieces to assemble this complicated puzzle, so I can't guarantee anything yet.

[random-autie-fangirl]

I make Chara posts

so here are a few of the longer/more notable ones

from the top:

about the buttercup plan 1. (5) My thoughts on the buttercup plan and the true lab tapes is like...yeah, Chara's being pushy and they are being manipulative.... – @random-autie-fangirl on Tumblr,

2. (17) Because of Chara's wish to be "erased from existence", I cannot really consider their death (through buttercups) a sacrifice.... – @random-autie-fangirl on Tumblr

"that's the power you were trying to stop" (20) Determination - the power Chara was fighting to stop – @random-autie-fangirl on Tumblr

oversealous judge child (30) I think with the message of Undertale basically being "everyone can be a good person if they just try". It makes sense that at... – @random-autie-fangirl on Tumblr

what path do they prefer? (50) "Chara wants you to fight and hates it when you spare" "Chara wants you to spare and hates it when you fight" Buddy, they most... – @random-autie-fangirl on Tumblr

and...when do they start helping? (55) Okay, the thing is that with the geno run, Chara only actually starts helping at the beginning of Snowdin, that's when they... – @random-autie-fangirl on Tumblr

do why know why Chara climbed the mountain? (65) There are enough lines that make it clear what Chara told Asriel their reason for climbing the mountain was that I am starting... – @random-autie-fangirl on Tumblr

Aaah, hubris...

(73) The most succinct way for me to describe my Chara is... – @random-autie-fangirl on Tumblr

(86) Hubristic Asshole Fight – @random-autie-fangirl on Tumblr (this is a reblog)

A headcanon sheet!

(99+) Hey, Do you have any Chara headcanons? – @random-autie-fangirl on Tumblr

(99+) Hey, Do you have any Chara headcanons? – @random-autie-fangirl on Tumblr

(In two parts because I added stuff to the first post that doesn't show up on the reblog)

(99+) I think Chara never really believed in Asgore's idea of peace between humans and monsters while they were alive – @random-autie-fangirl on Tumblr

What does Chara think of Flowey/Asriel post pacifist? (99+) In my opinion, Chara gets really close to forgiving Asriel for messing up their plan, really close to just admitting they made a... – @random-autie-fangirl on Tumblr

Black and white morality (99+) I think one thing many people would agree that Chara has is a rather black and white sense of who (or what's) good or bad. It's... – @random-autie-fangirl on Tumblr

Chara as embodiment of narration and statistics (99+) The holy quartet of video game narrators which are actually living beings (...and also kinda suck) – @random-autie-fangirl on Tumblr

Deltarune stuff:

(99+) I have quite a few Chara related deltarune headcanons but what is possibly the funniest and (initially) easiest to explain thing... – @random-autie-fangirl on Tumblr

(99+) Yes, I do genuinely believe Alvin to be the knight, and I believe Chara to be the angel/final villain (in the normal route, that... – @random-autie-fangirl on Tumblr

(99+) With my personal view of Deltarune being after souless pacifist... – @random-autie-fangirl on Tumblr

(99+) My plan did not fail. Look around you, look at the monsters living up in the sunlight Hear about my brother, alive and well,... – @random-autie-fangirl on Tumblr (this is creative writing!)

Chara the scientist (99+) Chara the scientist – @random-autie-fangirl on Tumblr

[shedpuns]

So... what's there to say about sneaky?

ok SO. none of this is set in stone because they're a character im planning to use in an rp but I have a pretty clear idea of how their character arc will go and I think it's super cool

to start with basically they were not the greatest person before they fell into the underground. not evil by any means but the kind of kid who has been watching next video in their youtube recommended so long they've learned a lot of unexamined shit and developed a super abrasive personality mirroring the behavior of hypercompetitive gaming streamers and such

but they don't go right for nm! not at all! they do a pretty chill first run through undertale, not a pacifist neutral run but not going out of their way to kill anybody either. flowey offers to help them figure out what went wrong and they go back to the beginning. in fact the first whole bunch of runs are essentially what you might consider flawed pacifist runs. flowey hasn't yet figured out he's going to take Every monster SOUL eventually anyway, he's mostly thrown his lot in with this kid he considers a kindred spirit, so he's sort of testing as he goes whether there's an ending that satisfies both of them and what that hinges on. and far be it from him to assume killing a couple people is a dealbreaker at this point, since it always gets different results.

(here is as good a place as any to toss in that sneaky's undyne, cap, and sneaky's alphys, al, are somewhat reset aware, further complicating things. they don't remember resets, but they're able to tell that things have been reset because the wider rp settings keeps progressing without their universe and isn't being reset. so part of why the results are always so different is the two of them are trying to figure out what's going on with the human.)

this is where the corruption arc sort of roots. the effort to try more things and get more results leads into an urge to explore every possible outcome, even ones that are clearly Worse, in a flowey-like way. they fall very quickly into the mindset that this is all a game and stop wanting to get out for good before they've gotten any secrets it has to offer. flowey is more than happy to encourage them to play with him forever and starts suggesting they go down certain routes he's found particularly interesting, mostly being the named routes from irl undertale (which in a more narrative setting like this are only a fraction of the possible endings) like King Mettaton and Depressed Undyne and Dog Ending etc etc. it becomes clear that they don't really face consequences since for each lost run where the monsters do avenge their dead there's a minute pathing adjustment that can be plotted to avoid that, so they desensitize themselves to killing, since it can always be reset away.

then flowey notices that if they kill a lot in the RUINS, they start behaving Differently. he recognizes and/or projects chara, so he suddenly has a lot of skin in the game and wants to investigate it more. sneaky finds this Boring, since they don't notice a difference and anyway they're not one of the characters they're investigating. they have their first major quarrel since the first handful of runs and remind flowey that they're the one in control and he's just their guide, possibly by killing him and resetting. flowey obviously takes this badly, since to him they were equals and friends, so he decides to manipulate them into doing a real no mercy run.

even from there it takes a bunch of resets, because sneaky is interested in breaking off the run to explore all the aborted and incomplete variants and flowey knows that he has to give them breaks because he's been down this road before and knows it's easy to burn out on these runs because they objectively suck, okay, he never did them because he liked the runs themselves just because he liked what they gave him access to do in other runs. so by the time they reach the point of no return in waterfall and proceed to the Undying fight cap and al have a lot of the pieces in place about what's going on and why.

this turns out to be vital because, for the first time, sneaky cannot beat a boss fight. they try a few different variants on the run, but as long as they fight undyne on the bridge and not at the arch, they can't win. their patience and tolerance for anyone and anything stopping them, thin as it was, has been completely eroded, so they throw everything they have into the fight believing that eventually, undyne will stop coming back. they get to a point where there's no break in the fighting--theyre right on top of sneaky's save point and undyne just survives every hit, so they're in like a thirty second time loop of literally just fighting.

and then, through the power of determination and love for the world and character development that isn't part of sneaky's story, undyne breaks through it. she uses red magic and her spear to shatter the FIGHT button the same way asgore can shatter the MERCY button. it's a risky move since this is reciprocal--doing this means just killing sneaky is not an outcome to the fight anymore. but it pays off and sneaky's ability to attack for damage is destroyed.

obviously they'll just reset and do something differently so they don't run into that fluke again though, right? woops, turns out that resetting without their FIGHT button just makes that permanent. so now they have to adapt to not being able to kill at all or die. flowey could not possibly be more pissed with them too since this means his whole subtle plan to bring out the chara in them is fucked forever. and to top it all off they're not even that good at surviving fights on their own so they NEED to depend on friends to make it through to the barrier and leave for good now because this game is NOT fun anymore. they're really lucky that cap has just had a whole arc about befriending and accepting frisks.

it is super not easy to get sneaky safely across the underground and it takes a couple of runs just to do it without anybody getting hurt even then. along the way they apply their mindset of having every outcome at their fingertips through resets towards helping people rather than exploring their worst agonies and become close friends with the usual suspects, who help them piece together the information needed to do a perfect true pacifist run, including a successful final confrontation with flowsriel.

time to waltz off into the sunset with a polaroid that definitely doesn't have any large red Xs on it right? nope. cap and al rope them into the rp scenario and they have to UGH help and save spacetime with UGHHH other universes including frisks who were more suited to the whole angel thing and UUUGHHH they don't even get any reset powers to do it with. the major significance of this is that that's where they get the nickname Sneaky, to differentiate them from other frisks.

and that's pretty much all the things I know about them! by the end they've sloughed off a lot of their more obviously floweyish behavior but they still fall back on seeing the world as a game they're competing in and have to Git Gud at, but in a more multiplayer way where people are more than just variables. they can't hit anyone with any more than a gentle tap or use any weapons or otherwise FIGHT, but they aren't by any means entirely unable to hurt people; environmental damage isn't magically prevented or anything so they can pull some looney tunes shit if they have to and won't hesitate to remind people of it. their favorite ut main is Alphys because they feel she manipulates the world to get by in a similar way to how they do now and therefore that she has the best and most optimal approach to life (and she's even also terminally online). they don't really dislike any of the most important monsters because they're all sort of On Their Side and have helped them figure out how to live without their FIGHT button but if they had to pick a least favorite it would be sans, since from their perspective he was never particularly interesting since they never reached a point where he had to intervene. they do still mistrust flowey too and that feeling is mutual for their flowey, who feels they gave up a perfectly good thing by losing to undyne. their situation with chara is less of a haunting and more of a reincarnation, but they don't understand it very well and never will since they associate tapping into that part of them with their worst runs. all in all not a perfect outcome but accepting an okay one was always kind of the point

in conclusion I love them. lil shit

[realityverse-en]

Story of Glitch, Chapter 1: Liberation (Bad English)

It all starts in UNDERTALE. Frisk RESET without stopping at every end of a road, but an anonymous creator programmed, an artificial and living human. Every time Frisk RESET, the human shows himself little by little. He finally shows himself in a genocidal end, but he asks himself questions at the beginning because his creator gave no objective. He was a baby who knew nothing about him. He appears instead of Frisk. He was confused, he knew he shouldn’t be there, but out of curiosity he discovered everything. except he only had 3 RESET at his disposal.

He presses the RESET button, he starts slowly on his way, he decides to do a RUN PACIFIST, he already knows what to do, he already has the memories of the RUN that Frisk did. He befriends everyone, and weirdly also befriends monsters that can’t be connected. At the end of the RUN PACIFIST, he understands that he had to save Asriel, An incredible gift suddenly appears, he had the power to create, modify, delete what he wanted. He changes the properties of his turn so he can save his friends in one turn. And He will create the SAVE button much too early in the fight, and then press the button to finish his RUN. He creates a monster soul for Asriel to stay in this Timeline to live together. The human was very happy, he loved his friends, his mother and his brother. But Frisk in a corner of the TIMELINE, gives signs that it should RESET otherwise their universe will disappear following an anomaly. The artificial human, not wanting to see the TIMELINE disappear with him in it, decides to RESET…

Second RUN, but this time it’s NEUTRAL. The human didn’t know what to do, and also who to kill to make a neutral route. He decides to kill those who seem mean at first glance. He thought he wasn’t going to kill many people. You also thought the same thing? He continues on his way, always thinking of killing monsters that seem mean. He arrives in front of Asgore and knows that he will have to fight against him. As soon as Asgore destroys the MERCY button, his gift resurfaces. He will repair the MERCY button in front of him, Asgore himself shocked and felt threatened to see the gift of the human. Asgore did not want to fight knowing that he could get killed at once. The human decides to choose the MERCY option, but Flowey kills Asgore, to take human souls and turn into Omega Flowey. Before the fight even begins, the Human finishes the fight. What? Didn’t you understand? The Human just ended the fight by killing Omega Flowey.

The void… It’s weird to be in the void, isn’t it? You don’t fall, you don’t hear anything, you don’t see anything. I thought the same thing to myself… That’s why I reset again. I don’t like the void.

The last road, the last story… The Human was a bit curious, he added the Item REAL KNIFE in his inventory, he will have the idea to kill all the monsters in one shot, to have an answer. At first, it was difficult to kill the people he loved, but in any case he will also die. Yes it was his last RESET, after that he will disappear.He had nothing to lose. He will continue his way by respecting every mechanism so that he succeeds in his RUN GENOCIDE. Toriel, Papyrus, Undyne, Mettaton. Everyone goes through it. Even without it, he will die Sans with zero dodging. Pathetic. The Human kills Asgore in cold blood, and tramples on Flowey. Finally at the end, here he is again, but this time with Chara asking to remove this world. Even though he killed everyone, he refuses. Exactly 2 seconds he was removed all his life, a very great pain came from his whole body, until he reached 1 hp. He presses the RESET button to end this suffering.

Is it over? Chara is gone? Hm... What was that? Who is that demon?! Arf.. I’m back alone in the void. But I’m not going to stay long anyway, I should disappear in the next few minutes... That’s what I was thinking too. But just a bug in the program changed my whole life.

The Human waits, waits, and waits. Hours, days, months, years. But nothing happens, he had to disappear but he’s still here, why? He asks himself the question several times, even to wonder about himself, if he was real? Is that what disappearing is? Do the beings who disappear from the TIMELINE still have a consciousness? It seems irrational to him. He was going crazy, he was hearing voices, he was seeing people from the TIMELINE GENOCIDE. He didn’t want to see them dead. He thought only of curiosity. And-

So you are an anomaly? You are mentally damaged to flee; you will make my job easier, Glitch.

A being resembling Sans appearing ar a portal, it seemed different, it is black color as well as these clothes. These eyes had several NEON colors. At first, he thought he could see the sans of his TIMELINE but quickly understood that it was not him, while the sans différent approached his hands in the pockets towards him. the Human will dodge the attack of the without before jumping into the portal… It falls very long before being caught by a GASTER BLASTER made of ink. The GASTER BLASTER made of ink makes the Human land safely in front of a larger Sans clothes, a large brush and colored eyes. But the Sans in black comes in angry.

Ink! Why did you save this human, I had to make him disappear!

How can it "make it disappear"? Your forgotten truce Error?

The two Sanses seeming to know each other and also to be enemies, the Human listens to them in their disputes. the Sans in black had to be named Error and the Sans with colored eyes Ink. Names not very innocuous. Error seems to have abandoned the argument, he sighs looking at the Human then leaves by a bugged portal at the edge.

Ink: Phew, we avoided the catastrophe! Sorry for the trouble, you avoided a certain death! My name is Ink and you?

Well, they call me ... Glitch ...

Ink: Glitch?? It’s not a very innocuous name, but we’ll deal with it! Do you follow me?

End of Chapter 1.

Next

Credit:

Ink!Sans : @comyet Error!Sans : @loverofpiggies

[mangom1lk]

recently watched (well, listened to) @nezumiva 's new undertale video and i finally understood what the genocide route is supposed to be and why i don't like it all that much.

i used to be under the whole delusion that the genocide run was genuinely a commentary on the morals of the player. this led to confusion on why it was even in the game to begin with. i failed to make the connection between "don't you have anything better to do" and the mechanical execution of the route. if the game is trying to punish you for being a bad person, why even include the option to make that choice to begin with?

i also used to feel that the "don't you have anything better to do?" stuff was intended to guilt trip you for playing the game *at all*. i used to think that under the game's rules, you were intended to play true pacifist exactly once and never replay the game. so, that's what i did at first. i put the game down for like five years and never came back to it. eventually i did come back because i felt that "rule" was stupid even if it was true and i replayed the game. i had an okay time. i did also try genocide this time and i skipped all the text because i had already learned about the run's contents online, bailing before the game "taints" your save file.

...and that's where i feel genocide goes wrong, really. now that i know it's just commenting on how the player is wasting their own time with genocide, i kind of understand what was being attempted and why it was a mistake, at least in execution. see, toby fox was a bit naive when he first released the game. he thought that people would never share any of this information online if he just asked them not to. he placed internal files to try and deter TCRF researchers, which were later removed in an update. he included the "dirty hacker" ending. he genuinely trusted that the only people to find this route would be those who actually tried grinding in order to see what would happen. i imagine for folks who did that, the genocide route's message actually does hit home.

i do understand that toby never expected the game to get big, that's another thing mentioned in the video. but... fact is, things were primed for people to play the pacificst route, dive into the fanbase like normal people, and find out about the genocide run secondhand. this is what happened to me. i genuinely didn't even catch on to the fact that grinding was required for a little while because i simply didn't know about it. i just thought the route was activated if you killed every monster you came across. in that context, the entire point of the run completely fails to land. you'll get people like me asking why it's in the game. "don't you have anything better to do than wasting your time on grinding to see what will happen" becomes "don't you have anything better to do than play the widely publicized alternate route that i myself put into my game". it just... gives the whole thing a pretentious air, one that was completely unintended.

i think the chara stuff was also a mistake in conjunction with this. in general there is a lot of material in undertale that is ripe for misinterpretation, even with the intended introduction to the concepts. it's quite clear this was a first attempt on toby's part, therefore.

thankfully i think toby learned from his mistakes. deltarune is not only a far larger story with a lot more intrigue as the focus, it's also an episodic release. with this model, toby ensures there are secrets that will always remain as such until the next chapter(s) have been released. the snowgrave route in chapter 2 is framed a lot less ambiguously than genocide as well, to the point where actually playing the route is a far more character-focused experience than undertale's genocide. it is exactly what genocide pretends to be: an alternate route. it builds upon the story and adds new elements to the world. this isn't the only place i think deltarune improves, but it's an important one, and i feel deltarune will be a far greater title than undertale when it is finally complete.

that's all :) this revelation has improved my opinion on undertale itself somewhat, too, though i still have the rest of my criticisms (the visual style doesn't quite work for me, it runs at THIRTY FRAMES PER SECOND in fake 640x480 - just 320x240 upscaled with a handful of smaller assets, the pacing is not always the best, etc). i'll be sure to keep revisiting it from time to time though, now that i know that's allowed :p

[lightsmores]

In a world were all Monsters have a small amount of determination, and a handful of aggression towards outsiders.

Notale takes place in a timeline where mostly everything remains the same. Although there are minor outfit changes, and personality shifts here and there. Chara never fell down. Instead, it was another human. The only minor difference is that most of the weak monsters are slightly more aggressive towards humans. Much like in Undertale, they cannot go up to the surface, but they are happy and contempt with being underground. Frisk wears Chara’s signature green and yellow sweater. They also have a permanent round blush on their cheeks.

Ultimately , all monsters have given up on trying to go to the surface. Due to what the humans put them through. They all agreed it’d be best to just better to reside in their small town. It was easier that way. After all, they weren’t welcome up on the surface.

Many are still against the idea of having humans down in Snowdin, since they were the reason they were locked away in the ruins to begin with. One day, Frisk falls into the ruins, making them one of the few to end up in the ruins. They decide to spare all monsters and do a true pacifist run. Despite this, the monster's attitude towards them doesn’t change for the better. They feel like they’re doing this as a way to set things right. Ultimately, Frisk is killed over and over. Injured left and right by these monsters who still hold onto what they did.

After getting killed by a weak monster and showing that they weren’t a threat. Frisk’s heart starts to feel nothing but hate for all the monsters. Thinking things like “I show them mercy, why don’t they do the same for me.” The frustration turns into anger, anger turns into hate. Hate then turns into violence. There was one time when Frisk was afraid to die, what if they didn’t come back? They could feel their determination becoming less and less with every. What would happen if they ran out of determination? Would they disappear? Every day they start to grow more and more anxious about dying.

They had already completed the True pacifist route but it wasn’t fair. Why should they get a happy ending? They finally got to live on the surface, but had they ever thought about what they did to them? After the hell they put them through…they deserve to feel the same pain, in double. In the blink of an eye, everything was reset and Frisk wasn’t planning on showing mercy, not anymore. They gave them a chance, now it was their turn to choose what fate would fall on them.

Flowey takes notice of this and decides to pop up and talk to Frisk. They had rejected their offer of killing when they first arrived, but the odds of them taking his advice seemed to be better now. The exact words exchanged between the two.

Flowey: “Have you finally decided you wanted to stop showing mercy?”

Flowey: “Or are you here to tell me you want to save all these monsters yet again?”

Frisk: “What do I need to do?”

As the story progresses, Frisk kills the first monster they encounter. A froggit. They couldn’t explain it but they felt a rush of adrenaline when they gained EXP from their first kill. It felt way better than getting hurt over and over again until you could spare the enemy. Not only that, their accuracy and speed had increased since

“I’ll show them who the real monster is.”

Later on, Frisk acquires a toy knife. Which soon turns into a real knife after their encounter with Asgore. They kill all monsters, making sure no one is left alive. Starting with one of the more well-known monsters, Toriel. Then slowly everyone else. With every kill, Frisk’s visage becomes more and more corrupt. They now wear a smile on their face constantly. Watching them all cover in fear as they begged to be spared, brought sick pleasure to them. Occasionally, Frisk would give them false hope and let them run off, they would never get far. But their meek attempts to get away always amused the human.

“Now you know what it’s like to be on the receiving end. Let’s keep it that way.”

While the genocide took place, Halo wasn’t present, it’s not known where she was through this time span. However, when she returned, nearly everyone was gone. There was no sign of any other monsters, all that was left was the haunting silence and the sound of her own feet hitting the floor. Time went on, and no sign of anyone. Void wasn’t around, neither was Echo. That was enough to set off alarms in her, she grew anxious by the second.

After some time, Halo ended up finding Void, who was now slowly fading away. He was the weakest monster in all of Snowdin. She couldn’t believe that she was about to witness one of her closest friends perish. There was blood leaking from his usual bright smile. For the first time in a while, Halo felt helpless. She couldn’t do anything for him, nothing at all. All she could do was cry and apologize for not being there to help keep the others safe. Echo…Toriel…Everyone.

It was hard to believe that someone she shared so many fond memories with could hold such anger and hatred against her and the other monsters. But…strangely enough Halo wasn’t angry. How could she? If anything, she felt responsible for all this. She was the one who was supposed to closely watch Frisk at all times. To ensure they wouldn’t do anything like this. But it was too late. And now, she’d have to live with the consequences.

“I promise you…I’ll find someone…and I’ll make this right.I’ll fix this.I’ll…I’ll fix everything, and then we can all go back to telling jokes. Just like old times.”

Without another word, she places her halo besides the monster and hugs him one last time. She couldn’t bare to watch him fade away. So, she left before it was too late.

As for Frisk, they believed they had gotten rid of all monsters. No longer did they have a reset button.

Our main character is Halo. The plot mainly revolves around her and trying to get her AU back. She was found by Nightmare in the waterfalls, due to the negative emotion she was letting off. Terror, fear and sadness. Nightmare was quite amused by all this, mainly due to how timid and weak she looked. Their first meeting is a bit rough, but nonetheless do they manage to have a somewhat decent talk. She isn’t afraid to talk to him, but her composure is somewhat meek upon when speaking.

Eventually, she asks Nightmare for help, in hopes he’ll be able to help her get her AU back. Since she believed he was Ink. Although she had never seen the skeleton, she had a vague idea of what AUs and the Multiverse were. Halo had heard tales in town about a strange skeleton who popped up from the ground randomly, appearing when no one was around. Surprisingly, they said he resembled Void to an uncanny point. After some thought, Nightmare agrees to help her out, but in the process tries to scare her by saying that the price for his help would be her soul. They shake on it and agree to help one another for the time being. In the process, she meets the one of the bad sanses without realizing it. She’s not aware of how dangerous they really are, but she has yet to find out what their goal is. Nightmare isn’t too fond of Halo upon first meeting, but he liked how obedient she was, which ultimately ended up being the reason why he allowed her to come along. He figured he could use her to his advantage. Seeing as to how negatively she reacted to everyone in her timeline getting killed, he wondered how she’d feel if she saw others in pain. Now, she spends most of her time in a white void like area. Just pure blank white around the whole place.

Author’s Note! : This is all a quick summary for what NoTale is! There’s still a lot I left out or didn’t mention, but I promise I’ll get back to it whenever I have the time! Thank you for reading <3

[luobingmeis]

I think Undyne's determination has less to do with like something that happened in the past and more like the overlap between determination as an actual physical thing VS a spiritual thing. Whereas the amalgamates were injected with determination by Alphys, Undyne makes her OWN. You've killed her best friend. You're going to kill the love of her life. You're going to kill her mentor. You're going to kill everyone. You've killed HER. But she still has to stop you. Everyone is counting on her 1/2

Undyne's whole motif is letting the monsters of the Underground achieve their hopes and dreams. Theres a reason she is the boss fight in Waterfall, the most backstory rich area in the game. Hope and dreams have just as much weight as determination does, its what helps you defeat Asriel. And Undyne the Undying's design mimics Asriel's because in Genocide SHE is the heroine, SHE is the determined hero that defies death in order to save everyone she loves via the hopes and dreams of everyone (2/2)

Sorry I just really fucking love Undyne Undertale fhfhfndkdk she willingly letting herself be used in an experiment to help her people is Very Good tho too hmmmm

!!!!

sorry ur abt to get a whole essay i love undertale so much.........

(also i use a lot of !!! for emphasis, not bc i’m yelling omg)

(also i’m letting you know this is an incoherent mess, it is 2am here akjsdkjsdjk)

but you can definitely be right!!!! tbh your idea seems much more par for the course than the spaghetti im throwing at the wall

even then, though, it’s stll so interesting bc like!!!! undyne’s courage is undeniable, and her fight to protect the underground plays Such a huge role in her whole waterfall arc. and, in the spiritual sense, she is absolutely determined!! that just makes me WONDER though bc, like, canonically, monsters Are Not determined! they don’t have that threshold!

and then, in looking at determination in the spiritual sense, what exactly makes undyne different? is it that her desire to live and protect the underground unlocks that threshold needed for determination? at one point, could monsters be determined, but then their millennia trapped underground biologically/psychologically stripped them of that? so then could any monster in the underground, when facing high enough stakes, have that determination? or is it just undyne?

bc then i think about the other bosses in either route, like papyrus, mettaton, asgore, sans. where undyne is the monster/boss capable of possessing determination, sans is probably the one least likely to have any threshold for determination (this is bc his entire boss fight is him realizing he can no longer be an observer, he is literally the last line of defense between chara and the annihilation of all monsters). mettaton is complicated bc as a napstablook turned corporeal, i dont even know where to BEGIN with him. but then there’s papyrus and!! it feels like he should be capable of feeling determined. in both the pacifist and genocide route, he is so assured that the human has some internal goodness. while, in the genocide route, that hope could be translated to fear, that still makes me wonder: under what circumstances could a monster’s determination be unlocked? is it not solely life or death? does it require some ulterior motives (aka undyne’s whole character being protecting the underground)? and like!!! it’s just so fun to think about bc, say it is undyne’s spiritual determination being unlocked, it’s so interesting that she’s the one differentiated!! that even papyrus, a character brimming with good and happiness and love, doesn’t have that determination, but undyne, who has a similar type of passion and goodness within her, does!!!

with experiment undyne, i will admit my theory is very much uhh wild! and unhinged! and, while my theory is much more playing in the “what if’s” of the science of artificial determination, it still makes me wonder! especially in the boss fight herself. ever since i first saw her genocide boss fight, i’ve always been a bit fixated on her eye, specifically the one w/ the eye-patch that eventually seems to have Some type of arrow power. while this definitely could have just been A Design Choice (and one i stand by!!), undertale is a game that reveals its complete lore when the pacifist and genocide route are put together. thus, in a hypothetical situation, i don’t think it would be out of the question that undyne’s eye could still Do that even in a pacifist route.

but even then, there are holes to poke! such as why doesn’t she use it? if undyne has been injected with artificial determination, why is she, frankly, normal until it’s a matter of life and death?

(to cut to the punchline before i get into my bullshit: i think it’s bc, at first, it seemed as if the artificial determination just Didn’t Work and had no affect, when in reality it needed to be met with spiritual determination as well)

and, again, i know i’m playing with a lot of hypotheticals right now, and mostly this is me just kinda fun bullshit theorizing, but i think it could have something to do with the fact that she has the threshold for spiritual determination! the reason i even think that she would offer herself up to determination experimentation is bc of the loyalty and love she has for asgore and the underground. i would argue that she is just as invested in asgore’s plan as asgore himself is, and she obviously sees him as some type of father-figure. so that alone gives her this Drive to do whatever it takes for the underground to survive.

so, therefore, i think in regards to this hypothetical experiment undyne, i think it quite literally is that spiritual determination threshold combined with artificial determination

and for that, i quickly want to talk abt the amalgamates and why they tie into this:

the timeline: corpses/souls injected with determination --> no reaction --> corpses wake up and act normal --> ??? happens  --> (quickly leads to) amalgamates

and so then that once again raises the question: what differentiates undyne? 

i think, for that, we then have to consider another question: if most monsters do not have the physical determination to continue living after death, can that determination be given when they’re already dead? monsters in general already have no threshold for determination, so can that be artificially made if it never existed in the first place? 

bc while alphys’s experiment, iirc, was to see what happened when a soul was injected with determination, i think the other much needed question is if monster souls could even Handle determination

and, while we do not know specifically what went wrong with the amalgamates (aka like How did they melt together), we do know that their physical forms really were not able to handle the artificial determination, imo most likely bc they do not even have a threshold for spiritual determination

but undyne is, as you have noted, different!

so, frankly, i think you’re right! i think undyne does have an inherent spiritual determination. it’s uncommon in monsters, but her want to save the world is enough to leave her determined

however, i think That would have just been enough to keep her alive

i think it’s artificial determination that gave her that final form! to reference  back to the amalgamates, they were all creatures whose powers we had seen before, but different now and, specifically, more powerful. that very same thing could be said for undyne! her powers are, essentially, things we have seen before, but fucking to Max Intensity 

AND THEN!! AND THEN!!!!!

when you do kill heroine undyne, she doesn’t turn to dust first

she melts first, and then turns to dust!!!!!

and, honestly, it’s that small detail that sent me down this rabbit hole, bc the only ever time we’ve seen monsters melted together are the amalgamates!

i think the main difference between heroine undyne and the amalgamates is the fact that undyne, at first, had No Reaction to the determination at first bc, since she most likely already had this secret threshold for spiritual determination, it wasn’t the Biggest of changes. it wouldn’t have had such a drastic reaction on her physical form bc, even if she didn’t know it yet, it wasn’t an entirely foreign substance

the amalgamates, however, aka monsters who had no spiritual determination, could only handle the artificial determination for an unknown amount of time before their bodies began rejecting the chemicals and becoming..... that

of course, then, this leaves me with even more questions, such as could undyne sustain this final form? would her body eventually give out, overcome by determination? was this form only meant for life or death situations?

and uhhh i think this is the end!! if you made it this far and are thinking to urself “damn you’re really an english major when you write like this?? this isn’t even comprehensible” do not fret!! i know this theory is kinda a shitshow, and it’s one of those things where i can keep myself up all night thinking abt this and talking myself in circles bc there are some points that i think have strengths and other points that are probably pretty weak

basically though!! i see the connection between artificial determination and undyne through the fact that her form actually changes, the reveal of her legit power eye, the way her attacks have been altered, and the fact that she melts at the end (akin to the amalgamates’ appearances) before poofing into dust

this has been,,,, a shitshow i am so sorry i hope this was at least somewhat understandable ajkdsjkdsjk

[zirkkun]

📂 Tell me more than one. I like hearing your ideas.

Hoo boy. Giving me no limit to my thoughts is too much power lol I'll limit myself to 5 for now???

1) UT Sans is the type of person to not particularly enjoy physical contact and usually avoids most any other than like, basic things (handshake, tapping a shoulder, etc). But when he's super close to someone, he's the exact opposite and will cling to them as if he needs it to survive. I kind of project this onto Error too, where like his fear for touch comes from the fact that he'd witnessed everyone he cared about die as Geno, so he doesn't believe he can get close to anyone again, leaving him in fear of all physical contact.

2) Gaster didn't do anything wrong. Everyone seems to write Gaster like he's done something wrong in Undertale or was a terrible person that experimented on Sans and Papyrus or something, but there's really nothing to say that he was. I'm convinced he was well-respected in the Underground as a scientist and merely died from a scientific failure of sorts. Due to his odd sprite, I'd assume it was Determination-based, but the idea that he "fell into the CORE" has genuinely always confused me. Did they throw his dust into the CORE? Did he sacrifice himself to power the CORE? Was their misinformation spread after his death (hence why all the Gaster Followers say something different)? I dunno lol

3) this one is. Pretty out-there. But I have this theory that Sans and Jevil were purposefully designed to be foils (aka characters who are exact opposites) and may possibly represent some kind of god and demon, respectively. Both of them have specific requirements that lead to their battle that requires extra work from the player, first of all, so they're technically both under the "optional fight" category. Both of these fights are even completely opposite: Sans's battle is repetitive, easy to predict, and can be beaten through sheer repetition and memorization because there is an order and pattern to each of his attacks. Jevil's, while I think is mostly the same order of attacks, is entirely randomized where things are going to land, so the most you can predict for is what attack is coming next, but not where to start, where to go, etc. It's chaotic. To get to Sans, you have to climb up through the Underground, because the Judgement Hall is nearly the peak of the mountain, and that's where he'll judge you. Not to mention, it's pretty church-like in the Hall. Those who get past him, go to the Surface, where the Delta Rune legend's Fallen Angel is from. Not to mention everyone praises the Surface like it's the most beautiful place in the world. Jevil, on the other hand, is in the lowest part of the Dark World you can possibly go to, and was put down there to be locked away for the chaos he'd caused. He's convinced that he's free while in that cage, because no one will bother him. There's no social norms or laws to break because he's the only one in there. Those OUTSIDE of it are the ones that have to abide by rules. That and... Jevil? Devil? Yeah, pretty obvious.

I could go on for hours about this theory ... But something tells me I'm looking too deep into it and if Toby saw it he'd just be like "neat. Didn't even think about that." LMAO

4) While it can definitely be assumed that Sans knows about resets, alternate timelines, etc. from his mention of them in the Genocide battle as well as the fact he has a (many?) quantum physics book, which the concept of alternate universes comes from quantum physics, I don't think in every timeline he recognizes the resets. At the VERY least, he has something to keep tabs on Undertale's "code," for lack of a better term, because he straight up tells you in the Genocide fight that he noticed that you were suddenly there by recognizing you were an anomaly. I'm convinced this is because you, the player, have been the only thing that has an outside influence on their world, one of the only things that has been able to mess with the "code" in the way of resets, saving, literally glitching things (I'm pretty sure there's like an easter egg where you can walk through the wall in the MTT Resort or I totally dreamt that). At the same time, I don't think Sans recognizes that there's someone controlling Frisk, and just sees this "anomaly" as Frisk. Additionally to this, I'm pretty much convinced Sans hates Frisk/the player/possibly even so far as humans as a whole by default. Because of the way he speaks to you about everything in the Genocide run, saying something along the lines of he only tried being nice to guide you on the correct path for everyone else's desire to go to the Surface (cause we know he couldn't give two shits about going to the Surface or not. Even on a neutral/pacifist route on the MTT Resort date he'll try and convince you to stay before deciding to take it back.)

5) Frisk is a vessel like mentioned in the beginning of Deltarune. While you can't choose how Frisk looks, you can choose everything else about Frisk. Unlike Kris, there are no pre-determined relationships or actions to shape Frisk's character, and Frisk does very, VERY little on their own, unless you play Genocide. Notably, I think a lot about how Kris is a lot more independent of a character, because he fights back against your actions, and when he does it's the one time we see an expression from him and his eyes. The main point of Deltarune is "your choices don't matter." The other character that said our choices don't matter? Chara. At the end of Genocide, if you choose to not erase the world, Chara will say, "When were you the one in control?" I feel like most people take this as they were speaking to the player directly, but I've always taken it as they were talking to Frisk directly. Chara can't see us, but they can see Frisk. They know Frisk is being controlled -- and, to compare again to Kris, possibly because we cannot see Frisk's eyes. They walk around blindly, so they have to be guided by SOMETHING, right? In this case, that something is the player. Frisk is nothing but a vessel for us to communicate with the game.

..

Okay that got LONG I'm sorry avdhsbs it's a v good thing i preemptively told myself only 5 because I could go on for. Forever.

[sweetygirl90]

"Together at last" AU will have a comic or a fanfic? I know the concept like many others is an ideal universe where Asriel and Chara would return from the dead and the Dreemurr family would be completed, but is there anything else besides that? I am very interested in the way in which different artists can visualize the relationship of this family and love relationships between characters.

 Honestly the only reason I made it an AU is for organization of the hashtags and to separate it from undertale canon stuff. However I would like to be able to do some comics or oneshots for it, although the way it would work best is maybe with both. What do I mean? A narration and illustrations.There are certain things that lose their dynamism when they move on to a comic or drawing, that's why I prefer to make illustrations of the scenes and narrate to make it more complete.

The reason for this is because of the things that the AU handles, which more than being action are about the emotions of the characters and how they deal with traumas and problems.

I don't want to give the impression that in the AU things are so simple for many characters. To give an example, since you mentioned that: The Dreemurr family. 

The designs that I have drawn at the moment for both Chara and Frisk and Asriel are from when they are already of legal age, around 20 years old. It's been a few years since they solved certain issues and that's why I haven't drawn them going through those problems (Well, Frisk might be a small exception for now). 

Toriel and Asgore went through a reconciliation process before getting back together. As much as it would be nice to think that they reconciled as soon as Frisk brought Asriel and Chara alive at the end of his pacifist route, that did not happen. They had to talk a lot and heal wounds to rescue their marriage to finally live together with their children.

As for Chara, Asriel and Frisk, they too went through somewhat complicated stages so that they could consider themselves a family. Not so much with Asriel and his relationship with the two of them. The problem is between Chara and Frisk.

Chara did not consider Frisk their sibling nor did they want to have them in the family from the beginning, they had too much hatred and resentment for them and only hid it because they knew how much it would hurt their parents and Asriel. Currently the two have a very good sibling relationship and Chara protects Frisk as much as possible, but at first Chara would have let them be killed without doing anything to prevent it.

I'm not someone who goes a lot for plots with action, but rather character development. For this reason the AU may be boring for some, but I am comforting to write and draw it. I really appreciate the interest ;;;; <3

[saltiestgempearl]

I get but still don’t agree with the people who wanted the diamonds to be “soulless villains monsters” cause it’s easy to think and label them as solely villains and the people who doesn’t like them may have had experience situations like abuse and trauma, so whichever they feel about them is valid, it’s just that,

Condemnation and punishment were never the themes of Steven Universe, we are so used to “good guys kill bad guys without second thought and everything is better now” that Steven’s narrative is inovative and refreshing,

But because of popular media like Undertale and mlp, people think is a “overused” narrative when it really is not, as a form of media we are just beginning to explore this storyline compared to all the more abundant “traditional” storylines in which they just kill the bad guys without thinking about the systematic factors that led to that unfair system or how it affected it’s individuals.

Steven explored all of this and gave it a fresh twist to it, I wonder if this is why so many people become negative towards the show.

See, I agree with you, but I think Steven Universe actually took it a step further than even those other two pieces of media you mentioned.

Undertale’s big thing was taking all your basic assumptions about video games, from “big bad boss, time to kill” to “oh it’s a shop keeper, they will surely want to buy all this junk in my inventory,” and forced the player to look at it a new way. The way you win the “pacifist” route in Undertale is ultimately by trying to find any other solution than killing your enemy, even if you have to get really creative to do it. It’s a wonderful game that subverts a ton of different tropes and showcases how powerful love, kindness, and forgiveness can be in its purest form.  However, the narrative still tells us that some people are “too far gone” to be helped, like Chara and the player themselves if they pass a certain number of kills. It’s literally a “too far gone” threshold that changes your opportunities in the game. 

MLP isn’t quite as extreme on either of these fronts; the main (or mane) six ponies don’t always explore every other possible option. Queen Chrysalis, King Sombra, Lord Tirek, the Storm King and Cozy Glow were all straight up killed (more or less; being turned to stone forever counts as killed in my book). But it also doesn’t give a literal threshold of redemption, a point of no return. That is to say, several of the villains who did get redemption arcs actually did some pretty awful things. And a few, like Starlight Glimmer, even had a somewhat non-linear redemption arc, which was really cool to see in a kids show. Though it should be noted that, in pretty much all cases, it was very much the power of friendship that helped redeem the “redeemable” characters (granted, the show is called friendship is magic, so that’s not really unexpected). 

Steven Universe, in my opinion, combined the best of both of these concepts, and added an additional layer: what if “do they deserve a second chance”  or “have they earned a second chance” aren’t even the right questions? Did the Diamonds deserve to be redeemed? Maybe yes, maybe no, but that’s not the point. The point was that Steven saw a solve-able problem, even when the solution wasn’t The Power Of Friendship™

And his solution was more creative and effective than any “kill the bad guy” one would have ever been.

Steven Universe, as a narrative, said “fuck the moral event horizon, we’re going to talk about universal welfare.”  It also explored a concept I don’t think I’ve ever seen before, certainly not in children’s media: toxic selflessness. And I mean completely toxic, hurting everyone involved, not just the person being selfless.

This show doesn’t coddle the viewer, it doesn’t give you a character to safely and comfortably project onto without also being shown your own flaws. By extension, it doesn’t give you a Bad Guy to safely project the people who hurt you in your life onto in a way you can hate them in peace.

I think it’s the combination of these pretty revolutionary concepts combined with its refusal to give you a perfect character to project onto (which both Undertale and MLP very much still do) that make some people so uncomfortable with the show. And that’s fine. But it irks me when people mistake their discomfort with the material itself being poorly written. 

[kytea]

The True Nature of Deltarune

Deltarune Chapter 1 has been out for over a year now, and being the big UT/DR fan that I am, I’ve been slowly mulling over both games, reading many fan theories and putting together my own interpretation of what I believe the nature and goal of Deltarune will be. This will be a long one so grab some popcorn, put on your matpat hats and click to keep reading!

So what is Deltarune? Is it a sequel to Undertale? Is it a prequel? Is it an alternate universe? Is it the coming of age story of a bunch of teens? Is it a complex meta-narrative on the nature of video games?

The answer is yes to all of the above. And to begin delving into this we must first understand the creator of this game: Toby Fox.

I won’t toot Toby’s Fox’s horn too much, we all know how talented and hardworking he is, but he’s also very emotionally perceptive and empathic. His general disposition is reminiscent of avant-garde artists that push the boundaries of artistic creation in a medium.

Toby loves mysteries, and in the early version of Undertale there was an included file that disparaged hackers and went on to say that it’s difficult to add mysteries in games these days due to data miners and such.

Thankfully, this did not stop Toby from lovingly adding quite a few big mysteries to Undertale that have yet to be resolved. Knowing Toby and his strong desire to share his story, a story that according to him, kept him awake at night:

“For the past 3 years I've been waking up in the middle of the night unable to go back to sleep because I've been thinking about the scenes that happen in the game. Even though so many details are still hazy, I really want to show you the things I've been thinking about.That's really my only reason for making this game. If I don't show you what I'm thinking, I'll lose my mind.“

I don’t believe Toby will let these mysteries go unanswered, and it is here that we can begin to understand what Deltarune is about.

The Mystery of W.D. Gaster

Truly, the biggest mystery of Undertale is that of W.D. Gaster: former royal scientist, creator of the CORE and the Determination Extraction machine.

A player can go through the entirety of Undertale multiple times and never even hear word of Gaster’s existence. This is because all the events that pertain to him are hidden behind a value in the game’s files known as the “FUN value”. Outside of actually manipulating this file manually yourself, it is, to the average player, random. The FUN value can trigger multiple different events throughout the game, some of which include running into “Followers of Gaster” or even Gaster himself.

While the latter has nothing to say before he “boings” out of existence, the former Followers all tell an eerie tale of a scientist who fell into his own creation and was scattered across time and space.

But hold on. Time and space? Why does that sound familiar?

Ah yes, during the Sans battle he speaks about an “massive anomaly in the timespace continuum”.

And during this battle Sans says a lot of other cryptic things without context, for example, he laments not being able to “go back” somewhere. But where or when is he referring to?

He mentions how he and others were monitoring time-lines and their readings showed them stopping and starting, jumping left and right, and eventually ending. Who was he monitoring these readings with? This all seems incredibly scientific and sci-fi, I thought Sans was just a silly skeleton, is he some kind of time cop? (he does have a “badge” in his workshop) He also uses skeletal weapons known as “Gaster Blasters”.

What…? Gaster Blaster?

Okay, now we KNOW Sans DEFINITELY has some connection to this mysterious scientist W.D. Gaster, but what? Well, for starters W.D. Gaster is short for Wing Dings Gaster, a type of font that he also speaks in.

Who else is named after and speaks in specific font types? Sans and Papyrus of course!

Furthermore, in the concept sketches for Papyrus, Toby wrote and redacted parts of a message that says: “has a brother named comic sans and a [BLANK] named [BLANK]”.

Who is this mysterious redacted person and what is their relationship to Sans and Papyrus? The easy money is on a family member, and for sake of argument lets use the prediction most of the fandom has already concluded and accepted: that Sans and Papyrus have a father named Gaster.

So Sans and Papyrus have a long lost father that was a scientist. This explanation would begin to explain why Sans has a weapon named after him, and why he wanted to “go back” to some place or time, perhaps in an effort to save him from his fate.

There’s a hidden event in Undertale where if you reset after listening to Sans speak about LOVE and EXP in a pacifist route, and initiate the conversion a couple of times in a row, he’ll catch on by the expression your face that you’ve heard it before and will surmise that you’re a time traveller and give you secret code words to tell his past self.

This will lead to him giving you the key to his room which ends up just being a prank at first.

But then you find a key to the secret workshop/basement hidden behind his house.

Once you enter the workshop, you’ll find some blueprints written in symbols you can’t read (wing dings?) and a curtain covering a machine that doesn’t seem to be working, among other things.

Toby Fox tweeted a message regarding this machine a few days after Undertale’s release around the time people were figuring out FUN values and the secrets surrounding Sans and Gaster.

“You’ve all seen the happiest outcome. Neither of them could fix the machine, no matter how hard they tried. No one can.”

This tweet seems to imply that if the machine could be fixed that Undertale could have a happier outcome.

And this my friends, is the gateway to the nature of Deltarune.

Deltarune, according to Toby Fox, is a game for players that have completed Undertale. But what does it mean to complete Undertale, and I mean, TRULY complete it? Toby often expressed that he wasn’t happy with how people told others how to play the game, that it is best played completely blind. Having played Undertale blind myself, and having watched others do the same, the natural way the game is meant to progress is that first players will experience the Neutral Ending, followed by the Pacifist Ending, and Finally the Genocide ending. This is because the game cruelly plays against your expectations of how an RPG should work and this almost guarantees that you will kill at least one monster your first play through. As if the fact that the fight button is always the default position in battle isn’t enough, in the early parts of the game you are told that you may need to weaken a monster before you can spare them. This naturally brings to mind the systems of Pokémon, where you have the best chance to catch a Pokémon if it’s at low health. Well, if you try this during the Toriel fight, as most do, you’ll find that as soon as you get close to critical health, you’ll instantly kill her.

Poor goat mama..

Difficulty-wise, the neutral route is the most easy, because you can level up a little and gain more HP. The Pacifist route is a bit harder because your HP is lower, but with the experience you gain from the previous route, it should prove no problem. Finally the Genocide route is the most difficult because it takes a concerted effort that implies knowledge of the previous routes to kill every single monster.

So an ideal Deltarune player has knowledge of all three main routes of Undertale, and may have experienced or heard of Gaster.

Is this player you? If so, ask yourself, what would a “happier outcome” look like to you? And be honest. Many fans in the Undertale community have already answered this question in the form of fanworks. Some of the most common elements among them are as follows:



1) Frisk and all the monsters are free from the Underground and living on the surface with humans.

2) Asriel is revived.

3) Gaster is revived.

4 )Chara is revived.

The revival of Asriel, Chara, and Gaster are the undisputed holy grails in terms of happiest endings that the UT community dreams of and creates endless fan works to explore the possibilities. Toby knows this well.

Using a speech pattern attributed to Gaster, Toby teased the release of Deltarune Chapter 1

“I LOOK FORWARD TO CREATING A NEW FUTURE WITH YOU.” stands out quite a bit to me as the prospect of a “happier outcome” is already tied to Gaster and Sans, now a “new future” is connected.

And when Deltarune released, and fans had a chance to play it, they found:

1) All the monsters are free and living on the surface.

2) Asriel is alive and well and living his best life.

3) A voice with the same speech pattern as Gaster (based on Japanese text) brought you to this world and attempted to give your own vessel before…

4)…a voice with the same speech pattern as Chara (also based on Japanese text) discarded it.

Right off the bat Toby seems to have given fans what they wanted, a perfect future ending. But as you continue to play, you begin to realize that this may not be the world you dreamed of.

First, while all the monsters are living on the surface, they aren’t the same people from Undertale, for example: Undyne has never met Alphys, and the amalgamates that went to live with their families at the end of Undertale are deceased in this world. And while Asriel is alive, it’s not THE Asriel we were so determined to save in Undertale.

Gaster’s presence permeates Deltarune so thoroughly it would take awhile to point out every example, but it seems clear that he’s present in some form.

And Chara? You only need to see the ending cutscene of chapter 1 to know that they are around in a similar fashion as when they possess Frisk in the True Pacifist after a Genocide ending.

But their presence is also present in subtle ways. For example, if you attempt to play the piano in the hospital in Hometown and then speak to the receptionist, she comments that Kris’ playing isn’t the same as usual (Likely due to our control), but it seems that Chara may be good at piano. Interestingly, on the cover artwork for the official Undertale Piano Collection 2 book, Frisk can be seen holding a knife playing a key on a piano in the judgement hall filled with bones.

So for better or worse, what appears to be the original Chara and Gaster from Undertale are present in Deltarune, in some meta form or another. And maybe that’s the key: “Meta-characters”. After all, you yourself as a player are a “Meta-character”. You can ask the inhabitants of this new world questions that only someone with knowledge of a True Pacifist route would have, such as being able to ask Undyne about Alphys. Asking her this only makes sense if you yourself completed a True Pacifist route before playing Deltarune.

Ralsei, the lonely prince.

Toby being the trickster dog he is, he didn’t just give us 1 Asriel and call it a day, no he gave us 2.

Ralsei is quite clearly meant to be a version of Asriel because not only do they have similar or identical dialogues, but he was also was meant to look more like him before Toby decided to give him his Black Mage look.

There are even strong parallels obviously meant to create an emotional response and connect Ralsei to the feelings people had for Asriel in Undertale by giving the players the option to hug him.

Ralsei is quite the mystery on his own. And while he’s most certainly sweet and lovable, there’s undeniably some disconcerting things about him such as:

-Why does he know Kris and Susie’s names?

-Who did he learn the prophecy from? “Foretold by time and space” isn’t a good answer (or is it?).

-What did he say to Kris when the player SOUL wasn’t present in the prison?

-When he’s KO’d in battle, what does he become? Apparently he can still eat to regain HP when in this shrunken form.

Ralsei seemed to be under the impression that violence wasn’t needed in this world, but upon nearly being defeated by the King after mistakenly healing him, Ralsei says “This isn’t a world where kindness always wins, is it?”

The way he says this seems to imply he knows of other worlds and that they have different rules. Perhaps he comes from a world where someone being kind to everyone they met had great results?

There are definitely things that Ralsei is not telling us, whether this means he’s up to no good will remain to be seen, however, I would like to take this opportunity to make a prediction based on the previous understanding that the original Chara and Gaster are present in this new world in meta forms, and assert that Undertale Asriel, the final piece of the perfect ending puzzle is present in Deltarune in his own meta-character form of Ralsei. Perhaps the form he shrinks into when KO’d is one we know well...

There is that unused Flowey face...

Add glasses and a hat and...

but that’s just a game theory!

And I can't help but wonder about the dark heart on Ralsei's chest and this merchandise in the Deltarune section of fangamer that specifically features a quote from Undertale about the prophecy of Delta Rune (that turns out to be about Asriel in the TP ending, and Chara in the Genocide ending) "There is a prophecy. The Angel... The One Who Has Seen The Surface... They will return. And the underground will go empty."

It's also the Deltarune game logo

Because the merchandise is called Darkheart, it made me immediately think of the dark heart on Ralsei's chest, and having an Undertale quote about Asriel/Chara makes it all the more mysterious...

Regardless, in just the first chapter of Deltarune, the elements of the “happier outcome” connected to Sans’ machine are present. But how do they all connect? Well, let’s look at the other characters in Deltarune, starting with:

Lancer

Oh Baby Santa Claus, how we love you so. It’s hard to overlook how similar Lancer is to Sans. They’re both hilarious in their own way, both ride bikes, have similar color-schemes, both have a love for tomato-based products, and both have some scientific/engineering affinity (Sans and his workshop, Lancer and his “Lancer Industries”).

But that’s not all, the door to Sans’ room is identical to the warp doors found in the Dark World that Lancer hails from, and Sans’ warp ability also makes the same sound effect as these doors as well.

Lancer is a member of the FUN gang (remember the FUN value?), that, as far as we know currently, has 3 other members besides himself: Kris, Ralsei, and Susie (with the possibility of Noelle and others in the future).

Speaking of Susie, her name (or a version of it) popped up in Undertale prior to Deltarune’s release when the game was released on the Switch. By speaking to the Gaster Follower “Clamgirl”, you can learn of a girl named “Suzy”, that you will meet her soon, and that “in life’s grand scheme, she might be why you came here in the first place...”

Upon receiving this dialogue, checking the drawers in Sans workshop will reveal a card with a drawing of 3 people smiling and the words “don’t forget”.

“Don’t Forget” is the vocal theme of Deltarune sung by Laura Shigihara, and the melody from the ending verse,“Don’t forget, I’m with you in the dark.”, is leitmotifed throughout the entire Deltarune chapter 1 OST. The connections between Sans, the FUN gang, Gaster, and by extension Undertale and Deltarune are quite apparent. Perhaps the actions of the FUN gang in the Deltarune world will have an affect on the FUN value in Undertale.

Based on all the evidence we have now, I am going to make a bold prediction:

Lancer is literally a younger Sans.

That’s right, Toby Fox made Baby Sans before Disney and Sega made Baby Yoda and Baby Sonic.

Deltarune’s Dark World is the past from the perspective of Sans and Gaster (or a recreation of it). How Lancer becomes Sans will likely be a very large part of Deltarune’s narrative, and once he becomes Sans, he will exist as a separate meta entity that can traverse different worlds, even if versions of himself already exist in some form there (similar to Ralsei and Asriel).

We’ve seen that if characters are exposed to elements that make it clear they live in a video game world, whether this be Determination for humans and Flowey, a time-space accident for Gaster, or a strange man whispering to Jevil, these characters become something wholly different, more powerful, and begin to become more similar to players with the ability to SAVE, RESET, or use abilities that seem beyond the scope of the game (e.g. Photoshop Flowey, Jevil’s ability to speak, etc). Undertale and Deltarune are video games about video games.

So if it is to be believed that Gaster is Sans’ father, and that Lancer is a younger Sans, then it stands to logical reason that whoever Lancer’s father is, that they must be Gaster.

No, not the King, there is another. A “Lesser-dad”.

Yes, Rouxls Kaard.

“GOD DAMNIT”

Rouxls Kaard, or “Rules Card”, or if you rearrange his name “A Dark Soul Rx”, wait, Rx as in prescription? As in a doctor? Dark Soul as in Mr. Darkness Gaster himself? Too much of a stretch? Maybe. Although you can’t deny they have similar appearances.

If Rouxls Kaard is Gaster, and therefore the father of Sans and Papyrus, then he’s undeniably similar to one of his sons. Rouxls Kaard seems to be quite passionate about puzzles, (despite not having a natural predilection to them). I could see Papyrus gaining an affinity for puzzles by being raised by such an individual, they both have quite flamboyant personalities. And let’s not forget that there are also hints that Rouxls Kaard may be inclined to creating scientific devices such as the “Control Crowne” he uses to control K.Round.

Hmm, controlling other people… sounds familiar to what we the player are doing to Kris… and who was it that was initially going to give us control of a vessel before we lost said control to Chara’s intervention? Control seems to play a big part in Deltarune doesn’t it?

Also, isn’t his manner of speech is reminiscent of a silly ye olde knight. Wait, wasn’t there a Knight causing trouble in the Dark World? Hm.

So something is going to turn Lancer and Rouxls Kaard into Sans and Gaster, respectively.

Now remember the CORE that Gaster built? This one?

It turns geothermal energy into magical electricity via an unknown means with one of the byproducts being ozone, which is corrosive and could potentially make someone very melty. This is what it looks like on the inside.

Lots of blues of varying hues with white accents. Kinda reminds me of Rouxls Kaard and the other “card” people’s color schemes.

What a coincidence! Oh and apparently the layout of the CORE can be re-arranged or something:

"I work at the CORE. The inside is a maze made of swappable parts... That means we can shuffle the layout at will." - Hotland NPC

Almost sounds like a sliding puzzle…

Finally, Gaster is referred to as “The man who speaks in hands”, likely due to his Wing Dings font that contains a lot of hand symbols, however, it isn’t a stretch to also apply that epithet to Rouxls Kaard, after all, the Rules Card speaks in hands as well. Hands of cards.

Susie

Can’t forget Susie. Unfortunately, there’s not much we can say about how her role in all this will play yet. If we are to believe that the “Suzy” that Clamgirl references is Susie, then it’s clear that she’ll be key, perhaps as a catalyst for all the big changes some characters will need to undergo...

I will say that I think it’s interesting that toby specifically has a character in Hometown comment that humans are made of blood (and implying the monsters are not),

and Susie says:

“Everybody bleeds, right?”

From our understanding of monsters in Undertale, monsters don’t bleed, they turn to dust. But, maybe Darkners can bleed. If we believe Sans is a Darkner, it may explain this:

It could be ketchup. It could be a Darkner thing. Lancer does mention blood casually. But if only humans and Darkners bleed, then why would a monster like Susie say “everybody bleeds”?

So what is Deltarune you ask? I think it’s:

1) A story about Sans, Papyrus, and Gaster’s past and future. We get to experience their past in the Dark World, and speak with their future selves in the Light World. But these future versions of Sans and Papyrus may not be as far into the future as the Sans and Papyrus we meet in Undertale. Remember, Sans had an Ice-E’s crossword in Undertale? Ice-E’s-P’E’zza is a restaurant in Hometown. Papyrus may also be younger than he was in Undertale because Sans, an adult who runs a grocery store, thinks a teen like Kris should hang with his little brother, and it would be “weird” if he were there with them.

2) A story about post-Undertale Asriel, Chara, and Gaster. Asriel/Flowey maintains his new form as Ralsei thanks to the power of the Dark Fountain. He now lives in what is/was Sans’ childhood home. Whether he knows this or remembers the events of Undertale is unknown, but it is my belief that he holds a deep connection to the Asriel we all wished to save. Chara resides within Kris in a similar manner as they did at the ending of a UT True Pacifist Ending after surrendering the red SOUL to them in a Genocide ending. Does this mean that Kris’s body or “vessel” is Frisk? This seems to be heavily implied by Kris’ outfit taking on the same color scheme as Frisk’s UT shirt while in the Dark World.

3) A coming of age story for a bunch of teens. Kris, Susie, Ralsei, Noelle, Lancer, and all the friends that may join on their adventures are still people regardless of what grand meta narrative is at play involving the nature of their reality. They still need to go to school, fall in love, and worry about growing up and going to university. Noelle will undoubtedly play a large role with Toby’s tease of her as “Lost Girl”, and considering how attached most of the community has already gotten to these characters, it hurts my heart to think about what may befall them as they try their best to live their lives. Does this mean Deltarune’s world is doomed? I hope not... but those save file screens sure are creepypasta...

“IT WAS AS IF IT WAS NEVER THERE AT ALL.”

4) A story about video games and the control (or lack thereof) we have over them. It’s quite clear that we, the player controlling the red soul, is able to influence this new world based on knowledge from Undertale that should have no barring. For example, we can name “Onionsan” who has forgot their own name. One of the options is “Onion”, but why? Is it because we know their name is Onionsan in Undertale? How do we even know if that is actually what this version of them is really named?

Deltarune is so close to the perfect Undertale ending we wanted, but it’s just a little bit wrong. Would it hurt to force Undyne and Alphys to meet and fall in love? To get Toriel and Asgore back together? To make Bratty and Catty friends? If you were given the option in game to do it, would you do it? What if it made their lives worse…? I believe that the fact we are able to influence inhabitants of Deltarune with our Undertale knowledge may have some unforeseen consequences, and perhaps, be what begins this whole situation in the first place. (Paradoxes are the best time travel stories!)

Toby Fox said that Deltarune was the game he originally wanted to make, but whether it was too ambitious or time consuming, his idea evolved into Undertale. Now that he’s creating the game he always wanted to, I believe that he will connect everything we know about them together and resolve the mysteries, after all, Gaster has been waiting for this chance.

And maybe, with a little luck and determination, we can create a new future with a happier outcome. If I’ve learned anything from Undertale, it’s that you must hold on to your hopes and dreams, because dreams are the goal of “Determination.”

[debrisyume]

Deltarune Theories

This is super late, I know. I’m only posting this after most people stopped caring about the game but I really wanted those who are interested to know what theories I am going with. I actually like the fact that I did it like this because people have noticed and discussed interesting things months after the game was released.

Warning, I don’t think I bring much of anything new to the table with my theories, but I still want to put my thoughts into context so people know where I stand currently. Also imagine everything has a disclaimer that says “This is what I think but I’m prepared to be wrong when the full game comes out.” After all, we don’t know how much of the story we’ve been shown, it could be less than a third for all we know. And I think there’s a lot of lore we aren’t aware of right now.

It might sound kinda fanfiction-y at some points (not that fanfic is bad, but fanfiction doesn’t rely on evidence, I probably discuss a lot of headcanons here with little no backup). Also, this is super long (perhaps excessively so). I’ve broken it up into sections for more easy reading, and I have a short list of my most important or favorite theories at the end, but without explaining why I like them or the evidence for it. If you’re confused or don’t like a theory of mine, I recommend reading the part where I talk about it to at least understand my perspective.

Let’s talk about the ending scene first because I have some... thoughts about it.

That Ending

Ok, first of all, I’m 100% completely certain that the red soul Kris took out doesn’t belong to them. They were definitely possessed by it. I used to think it was theirs but then we took control of it and Kris was willing to get rid of their soul to stop being possessed, but that ended up being too convoluted.

Also, a big piece of evidence that pretty much confirms it’s “our” soul is how Gaster literally summons the red soul for the survey. (“ARE WE CONNECTED?”) Presumably it was going to be put into our created vessel, but then Chara dunked it and Gaster had to make do with Kris. (Or maybe it was Chara who put it inside Kris but I strongly suspect it was Gaster, because Chara was cut off when they were saying “Your name is...” This link also provides evidence toward Chara working with Gaster. They consider Frisk/the player their partner, an equal, and see themselves as a servant for Gaster)

Probably the biggest indication towards Kris being possessed by the soul is the whole ball of junk sequence. They don’t want to throw it away, but we force them to do it and they are clearly upset by it. Not to mention how we can still control the red soul inside the cage by moving it around a little. I don’t see how the ending could be anything but Kris trying to take back control of their own body.

Now, I don’t think Kris is evil. I don’t think they want to kill anyone, I can’t think of a reason why they would want to kill anyone so I’m not expecting it. Their LOVE is at 1 and we never heard about them being violent. There is a big gap between somewhat creepy and mean pranks + social awkwardness, and literal murder. They’ve also done things outside of the soul’s control that make them being evil unlikely in my eyes, they protect Susie and they call her their friend. They also clearly care about Asriel and miss him deeply.

Why would they throw away the first friend they made in years and ruin their relationship with Asriel by killing people in their hometown? I believe the knife thing was just a threat towards the soul, to scare it into leaving them alone. All Chara similarities are because they’re like Chara, not being possessed by them.

I believe they used to have a red soul themselves, but it was taken from them or lost somehow (their similarities to Frisk and Chara are way too stark and prominent for me not to think they had a red soul). For probably a long time they were soulless. We see how being soulless affects Flowey, he can’t feel love, compassion, or hope. I think Kris being soulless like this worsened their already terrible depression, and while they were able to get those feelings back through the new red soul, they aren’t willing to be controlled like that, so they got rid of it. Maybe they’re hoping to get their own soul back one day.

Also, I suspect that Kris has been possessed before, which is why I think they haven’t had their own soul for some time already. The rusty cage they used to trap the soul ‘has seen some use before’. There’s also a suspicious stain by that cage. I believe the first few times they had to rip a soul out, their body couldn’t handle it well and... yeah...

I don’t have a clue why Kris moves the way they do before ripping out the soul though. They walk very similar to how Frisk is described to walk in the Genocide Route, “shambling about from place to place.” But that was as a result of the LOVE they gained, right? It doesn’t look like Kris is controlling their own body well either, and the footsteps from the Dark World... maybe prolonged possession really hampers Kris’ own control of their body. They are described as looking sick in Hometown, which implies being possessed made them sick... someone help them already.

Kris’ Weapon

I would like to talk about the knife for a second too. So, their weapon is listed as “pencil” and not knife. I don’t know about you, but a pencil sounds like a pretty shitty weapon, especially if I already have a knife with me. But, what if Kris didn’t always have that knife with them? I know this will sound kinda crazy, but I think they summoned it with magic (Chara/Frisk/Kris has a strong resemblance to one of humanity’s seven greatest magicians, the poncho human, so this doesn’t come across as that unlikely to me. I think Poncho Human is one of those magicians because they’re always seen as toward the front/leading the humans, including when the barrier was being made, although I will admit this isn’t really confirmation).

We already seen this happen in Undertale. No matter what weapon you have equipped in the Omega Flowey fight, the knife animation will always play when you attack him, even if the knife isn’t in your inventory. This happens in other instances too like when Chara kills Sans, Asgore, and Flowey for you. Kris does look like they reached into their pocket for the knife, but I still believe it wasn’t there initially, otherwise the knife would be their “weapon.”

Is the Red Soul really supposed to be us?

Back to the soul, I don’t think the soul belongs to the player specifically. While I think it’s a valid theory, it kinda makes me uncomfortable, similar to the player theory in Undertale which I used to believe in. It’s not just that though, I believe the red soul has a good chance of belonging to Frisk.

Think about it, the red soul knows things Kris shouldn’t know about, they recognize Sans (and Sans probably recognizes the soul but is pretending not to know anything about what’s going on), they ask Undyne about Alphys, who’s supposed to be her girlfriend in the universe they came from. They also explicitly can’t play piano, unlike Kris, which excludes many players. Kris’ Dark World outfit matches Frisk’s usual clothes very well, and then there’s the flirting thing.

The vessel we made at the beginning has two stripes on their shirt, and their soul is red... like... a certain someone... we’re familiar with... it can’t be Chara, because Chara is the one who got rid of our vessel. And what was Chara doing before they got cut off? Telling Frisk a phrase similar to ones they heard before (Despite everything, it’s still you. Try as you might, you continue to be yourself. No one can choose who they are in this world.) and trying to remind Frisk of what their true name is (“Your name is...” a direct parallel to the flashback when Asriel introduces himself to Chara, but the flashback ended before he could, so we only heard “My name is...”) because apparently Frisk forgot who they were.

Anyone else find the survey questions weird? Besides how the speaker clearly isn’t too familiar with humans, none of them particularly identify a personality, they’re all about favorites or physical things. Gaster summoned Frisk’s soul for a specific purpose, but apparently they don’t need to be completely “themselves” to fulfill that purpose?

Also, if the red soul is supposed to be the player, not only is the bad piano playing oddly exclusive, but so is the color. We know from UT that each soul color had a virtue to go along with it, yet ours is always red, like Frisk and Chara’s. You could just wave it away as being red because it was our previous player character’s, but I still think it’s weird because Toby could have let us choose our own soul color or made a small quiz that picked our virtue for us. I still think red has its own virtue, despite us not knowing it. It can’t be determination, because DT is some sort of magical substance that exists in all humans (it’s also too similar to perseverance to be a separate trait). I have my own ideas, but maybe we’ll find it out in this game? Either way, there’s no reason it has to be red in particular, if it’s meant to represent the player, unless we’re actually playing as a character with a red soul.

Now that I’ve established that I think the red soul is Frisk, I need to explain what kind of Frisk. I think this Frisk is older, closer to Kris’ age than how old they were in Undertale. It must be after a pacifist run, because that’s the only run where Alphys and Undyne get together, although I haven’t decided yet if it’s regular pacifist or soulless pacifist. The way Chara talks reminds me more of their Genocide run self, not to mention the callback to the soulless pacifist ending in DR.

The thing about determination in Deltarune’s universe is that I think it still exists, otherwise we wouldn’t be able to save and reload at all, but that it hasn’t been named or even have much research to it at all. After all, the one who discovered it was Alphys, after Chara and Asriel were long dead. And Alphys in this universe isn’t a scientist. Kris also seems to be aware they can save, but their save file is weirdly empty...

The Dark World isn’t Real, kinda (but neither is Hometown, kinda)

Now, pretty much everyone has considered the idea that the Dark World is not actually real. The food isn’t filling, after completing a playthrough you can skip going to school and just go back to sleep to come to the Dark World, the areas and characters each have a counterpart in the unused classroom (except for Ralsei, hmm). Kris’ pencil also turns into a sword, we can tell because if they get the spooky sword, they come back with a Halloween pencil.

I don’t think it’s as simple as the Dark World being fake though. The idea of Kris and Susie having some sort of shared dream experience is weird, and all the roleplaying theories make no sense to me (why would Susie participate when she only starts caring about Kris toward the end of their journey?). All the characters not being real just makes me sad, and the adventure feels hollow of if it was just imagination.

I believe the Dark World is a pocket dimension of some sorts, influenced by what goes on in Hometown (Seam being old is because ‘stuffed animal Seam’ is worn out after some years). It might be pretty dependent on Hometown to exist, but all the characters are perfectly sentient and have their own agency. Think... idk what goes on in Toy Story or Spirited Away?

However, I also believe Hometown is fake in some way, or at the very least, there’s some shady magic stuff going on. While on the surface it seems like a perfectly normal town where monsters are happily living above ground, seemingly never been trapped by humans in the first place, most of the characters we know are unhappy in some way. Bratty and Catty hate each other, Alphys and Undyne don’t know each other, Mettaton isn’t confident and seems pretty depressed, being a teacher is literally the worst job Alphys could have, etc.

There’s also things that feel super off. The way Toriel acts as a parent to Kris feels like a downgrade from Undertale, Asgore is living in poverty and no one is really helping him (almost makes me wonder if he was never a king in this universe?). Why don’t Alphys and Undyne don’t know each other, anyway? The town is pretty damn small and they both hold job positions that would make them well known, especially given how it seems like only Toriel and apparently Blooky is the other teacher/officer respectively.

Why is there a stain in Kris’ room that Toriel doesn’t seem to care about, even just to clean? Why is she overprotective to the point of punishing Asriel for being kissed by a girl? Why is Asriel the only character living his best life? He’s alive, he’s popular, his family is proud of him, while is Kris is seen as a creepy loner.

The lights in the school not reflecting the correct way, assuming that was deliberate (considering its similarities to the judgement hall, which is weird on its own, I’m betting it is). The way Toriel’s doorknobs on multiple doors work should be impossible. That fucking bunker?? Why is it there?? Why is Gaster’s music playing there?? IM SO UNSETTLED

Anyway, my point is I have to wonder if Hometown is fabricated in some way. I like to think of it as a world someone created that isn’t completely finished, or something went wrong in the process. This post talks about a great idea about how the Deltarune universe is meant to be an “ideal AU” for Asriel and Chara (Asriel creating the Dark World while Hometown was done by Chara) and I’ve been really into it since I first read it. It just makes a lot of sense to me. I believe it was done with the help of Gaster, who has his own agenda going on, which is why things aren’t perfect.

What’s up with Kris?

Now, about Kris’ identity. It’s hard for me to believe they’re completely separate from either Frisk or Chara because of the similarities they all share. Kris’s skin and hair colors match Frisk’s perfectly, but their personality seems to match Chara more. They’re quiet (we never hear Chara’s voice in the videotapes), the demon horns headband are very much Chara’s style, they like being creepy, while Chara’s hair doesn’t cover their eyes when see them at the end of the Genocide run, we never actually see their eyes in the flashbacks, they’re also both very close to Asriel.

I also think it’s important to mention that Deltarune takes place in 202X, while Chara fell in 201X, and Frisk fell much, much later. I’ve seen people liken Kris to a “Chara self-insert” and it makes a lot of sense to me in the context of Deltarune being a created AU. I’m more in the “Kris is an AU Chara” boat than “fusion who’s taking the place of both” or “AU Frisk”, because personality sticks out more to me than physical stuff. But the “self-insert” idea could explain away the name and appearance differences. Chara could see Frisk as a better version of themselves, taken stuff like Asriel saying Frisk “is the friend he wished he always had” to heart, and unconsciously mold this AU version of them to resemble Frisk more.

Essentially Kris is Chara’s OC in the same way Ralsei and the Absolute God of Hyperdeath are to Asriel. Not to mention since I think Frisk is the red soul, the idea of them possessing an AU version of themselves is a bit... odd, but if it’s an AU Chara than it’s almost a reverse of the situation they two had in the Undertale (although I don’t think Chara took control outside of certain instances). Which is a fun idea to me! Like Underswap but angsty teen edition, haha.

Tbh, the idea of Kris being an “AU Chara” is more just my personal preference, as it goes well with a lot of headcanons for Chara (I had one that they played the piano before Deltarune came out, for instance), however, I can admit that some sort of fusion between Frisk and Chara (heck, their name is even a combination of the two, ‘Chris’! It’s probably spelled as Kris because that’s more gender-neutral, I bet) seems more likely at this point, no matter how weird I personally find it.

By the way, I strongly feel that Kris would have a different outfit in the Dark World if they had their own soul instead of Frisk’s soul inside of them. I can see theirs following a similar knight theme, but it wouldn’t have a blue and pink color palette.

Also, I have to wonder if maybe Kris was Chara’s old name back in Undertale? It’s not a stretch to imagine that they chose their name before meeting Asriel the same way we chose Chara’s name in the beginning of Undertale. But, if it’s a case of Kris being Chara’s old name, I think it’s just that they haven’t figured out their ‘true name’ yet because they never heard of ‘Chara’ before, rather than everyone disrespecting their wishes. Frankly, the idea of everyone misgendering/deadnaming Kris intentionally makes me uncomfortable and also comes across as pretty OOC for the monsters.

To pacify or not pacify?

I said before that I’m uncertain as to whether Deltarune is a sequel to post-pacifist Undertale or post-soullless pacifist, but I think if it was the soulless version, it would give us a good explanation for how Gaster acquired Frisk’s soul (Toby could easily explain it away as void fuckery powers but whatever). Chara could have been to the one to give it to him, because they are technically in possession of Frisk’s soul.

I still consider the soul to be Frisk’s even if they gave it to Chara. We already know from the Omega Flowey and Asriel fights that even when someone else is using the soul, the person will still exist in some way. Even if Chara owns the soul now, it’s still made from Frisk’s essence. Also, Chara and Gaster seem to be working together, I think Chara gave the soul to him and that’s how the survey got started. And since it’s not in Chara’s body anymore/Chara could have just given up ownership of it, Frisk is the only one in control of it now.

Frisk isn’t evil they just lack empathy and occasionally go into a dissociative state where they commit atrocities

(The title is supposed to be a meme reference don’t take it too seriously, although I always liked the headcanon that Frisk struggles with empathy more than people think). You guys might be thinking I’m being too harsh on Frisk. They’re possessing Kris, they probably did a Genocide run, etc. Well, I don’t think any worse of Frisk than I do for Flowey. They (along with Chara) are just traumatized kids in messed up circumstances with way too much power in their hands. Frisk also never consented to being put into Kris. I don’t think they have any idea what the fuck is going on.

You can answer ‘no’ to multiple questions in the survey and it continues on as if you answered yes, they probably thought the whole thing was weird and kinda shady, but they literally had no choice but to go through with it. They were also under the impression that their vessel would be the new artificial human they’re creating, not someone who already has a life. I’m also not sure if they have a good way to communicate with Kris and hear their thoughts on everything. Frisk might be able to talk to Kris through narration, but not hear what they want to say in return, only some of their feelings. Or they’re not able to talk to each other at all, which just makes the situation harder on both of them.

Frisk can do many things that unintentionally hurt Kris, like hugging Ralsei when Kris doesn’t like hugs, but that seems to be a case of ignorance. As far as I know, there’s only one thing Frisk can do that’s deliberately bullying them, which is breaking the ball of junk (it’s also crappy if they named it that way when Kris clearly likes it). That is pretty shitty of them, but it’s not too far off from the jerk things you can do in Undertale, liking eating the snowman piece in front of the Snowman or letting Monster Kid fall to their possible death, as far as Frisk knew (all on a pacifist run too!).

Frisk still needs to apologize to them, but I think the two will be able to mend things together eventually. I’m hoping they will because I’ve already thought a lot about their possible friendship after they reconcile lol (This is going to be one of those theories I’m sad about if it’s not true)

I would also like to say that if Frisk has ever met the Gaster followers/Gaster himself (which you can do without hacking in updated versions of Undertale) during a couple of timeline resets then they might feel an obligation to help him, even if they have a bad feeling about it.

Chara and Gaster are playing tug-of-war (and I want the old man to lose because I’m biased)

Back to Chara and Gaster working together, I believe this is almost certainly what’s happening, but they definitely seem to have different goals, or at least different ways of going about it. The way Chara takes over gives me the impression they’re arguing with Frisk caught in the middle. I’m uncertain as to why Chara discarded the vessel, but I doubt they killed the little guy. Maybe possessing a Goner Human would have unpleasant consequences we aren’t aware of.

From what we know of goners, they essentially don’t exist in the same way Gaster doesn’t. Maybe, people would be able to acknowledge us at first, but overtime, similar to Gaster, our existence is forgotten while our accomplishments still exist. I’m expecting them to come back eventually. I like the idea of them being The Knight, although that would require some weird timeline stuff going on, like the period between our vessel being discarded and the red soul being put inside Kris to have taken a much longer time than we thought.

As I mentioned before, I think Gaster was the one to put the soul in Kris, not Chara. My reasoning for this is how Chara gets cut off when telling the soul their name. Gaster could have went with Kris because they’re the best fit (being a human, presumably used to being possessed— notice also how despite clearly not liking being controlled, they still do everything we say) and how they’re already a part of the Legend, apparently, so they were supposed to go the Dark World the whole time.

If Chara was the one who did it, then I think it’s because since Frisk is “their partner”, Chara wants them to work with this AU version of themselves. If Kris is supposed to be Chara, then I can also see Chara just not caring about their comfort or what they want, since Chara always seemed to have a low opinion of themselves, I doubt they’d care much about an AU version.

Otherwise, well, the Chara that gets corrupted by LOVE by the end of the Genocide Route seems to treat everything with apathy unless it has to do with power and irresponsible people getting what they deserve, so they still probably wouldn’t really care much about what Kris wants. Chara could have also thought they were helping by giving them a soul, even if it’s a soul that will control them.

Btw, I doubt Chara has completely bad intentions even if this is the Genocide run version of them, nothing to do with a massacre at least. They’re not even directly interfering with the world besides the vessel thing, Gaster is the one’s in charge of our game over screen (something I think is important and will get back to later!) and we’re the one who chooses to fight people. It’s just that the Darkners run away before we can kill them. Chara has also never been above doing questionable things for the greater good, just look at the buttercup plan.

Suzy/Susie, also that other lizard teen

As far I’m concerned right now, Suzy from Undertale is the same Susie from Deltarune, similar to Chara and Kris’ connection, she’s just younger. However, I wouldn’t be surprised if Suzy is a different character and she’ll appear later in the game. I’m thinking she’s another monster rather than a human, if she isn’t Susie herself. The reason I’m being cautious about whether they’re alternate counterparts is that Catty and Catti are separate characters, despite having very similar names. I wouldn’t be surprised if Suzy and Susie are actually related in Deltarune.

Also, if the soul is a post-pacifist Frisk like I think it is, and Suzy is Susie, then I definitely think Frisk became friends with Suzy after the barrier was broken. I imagine a younger Susie would be more mellow and less of a bully, and Frisk could be a good source of support when she’s dealing with her problems. I think even if they aren’t the same person, it’s likely that Frisk knows Suzy if she’s a monster.

Goner Clamgirl specifically told Frisk they’ll be meeting Suzy soon, so if she isn’t Susie, we’ll definitely see her eventually. And if this is post-soulless pacifist... well, I never thought Chara killed everyone, I thought it was a threat to scare Frisk into behaving or remind them/the player of what they’ve done. Kinda hard to be completely happy with your family and friends while being haunted by the fact that you killed them before.

Monster Kid is kinda screwing with me. Their horns are pointing the opposite side of where they did in Undertale, this is significant because Goner Kid’s horns point the same way as DR Kid. We already know of one goner living a normal life in Deltarune, could DR MK be Goner Kid while UT MK is... uh... MIA, in the Deltarune universe, for the lack of a better term? They act exactly the same though, which is pretty weird. I am still very concerned.

The Narrator is more confusing than Gaster at this point

Now, one of the mysteries that is fucking with me the most is who the narrator is. I don’t think it’s Kris, the use of ‘you’ and other things (Kris got the hot chocolate, you felt a feeling of relief @ the ball of junk not being thrown away is clearly about Kris) doesn’t really fit it being Kris in my head. There’s a lot of similarities with Chara but too many odd things as well... it uses the exact phrasing but with notable differences. The cactus isn’t tsundere, “it’s only you” feels VERY off and kinda mean since Kris isn’t exactly alone anymore... It’s sometimes stiff and brief, similar to the Genocide run narration at times, but it also has its playful moments “It’s good to conserve water” when choosing not to flush the toilet, and the whole “perpetrating the cycle” when talking about the moss.

I like to think it’s a Frisk trying to mimic Chara at times, actually. “He cannot be reasoned with, but don’t give up...!” when checking the Spade King gives me strong Frisk vibes. Also “It's quite small, but some people REALLY like it,” for the choco diamond implies the narrator isn’t a huge fan of chocolate (which Kris and Chara are, the choco diamond heals Kris the most). It’d also make the most sense, if the red soul is Frisk, for Frisk to be the narrator.

However, something that feels off for both Frisk and Chara as narrator candidates is that the narrator seems familiar with Kris. They know Kris can save (“the light only you know”), they know which locker belongs to them and Asriel, they know Kris’ and Asriel’s old Halloween costumes are from 8 years ago specifically... which is... extremely weird? How can Chara or Frisk know these things if they’ve never been to this world before?

Which leads me to my crackpot theory, the narrator is college!Asriel who’s actually dead. THINK ABOUT IT. It’s definitely wrong but whatever. For now my favorite candidate is Frisk but who fucking knows. I’d even accept Gaster at this point, and I hate that theory for Undertale. It’d be too easy if they’re not meant to be character in this game, I think it is supposed to be someone.

ALSO ALSO important fact is that they are definitely narrating to Kris. They refer to Toriel and Asriel as “your mother and brother” and there’s stuff like “You really didn’t want to throw it away.” So the narrator is talking to Kris and not to the soul. I think this is significant.

But yet ANOTHER weird thing about this is “the power of reoccurring bake sales shines within you” line (or whatever, can’t remember the exact phrasing). There’s only one bake sale in Deltarune, but this makes sense in the context of a post-Undertale playthrough, because we experienced more bake sales there. But that means the narrator (Chara I guess, if we’re just going off of this line) is talking to Frisk... which can’t be possible because I already established how they’re clearly talking to Kris, not the soul... (the narrator talking to more to one person or there being two narrators would get way too confusing too fast, like, how are we supposed to figure out who’s who or who exactly they’re talking to if there’s more than one for either?)... and yet if it’s Frisk talking to Kris this line is still strange... because Kris has only been to one bake sale before... you guys understand yet why the narrator mystery is frustrating to me???

Gaster isn’t evil but he’s probably worst void grandpa ever

I do not trust Gaster. I do not trust him at all (I also don’t trust Ralsei). I don’t think he’ll be a traditional villain though. It’d be kinda hypocritical of me to assume the worst of him when I’m such a big Chara fan. The problem is we barely know anything about him. With Chara, we have just enough info to figure out likely motivations, backstory, and personality (from the narration). I have an idea about what Gaster wants but not much about why he’s going about it in this... pretty convoluted way.

I think Gaster wants to be whole again, I think he wants to go back to his friends and family. However, he’s going too far and is fine with people getting hurt as long as he can achieve his goal. Being shattered across time and space probably fucked with his mind at least a little bit. And after a while of nonexistence he’s probably gotten desperate. I’m thinking he’ll be a helpful, if confusing, ally at first, then as we learn more about what he wants he’ll turn into an antagonist. And it will end in an redemption.

Also since there’s apparently an actual debate about this, Gaster is definitely involved with Deltarune, along with Chara. I’m uncertain as to how big Chara’s role is, but Gaster will certainly be a big part of the game. The post I linked about Chara discarding the vessel has undeniable proof it was them, and there’s wayyyy too many hints about Gaster around for him not to be in the game. The speaking style of the one who gave us the survey matches exactly with how Gaster speaks in Entry 17, his music motifs are everywhere (when we call the phone number, the area around the bunker, etc) at least one of his ‘followers’ is up and alive, Seam directly quotes his iconic “darker, yet darker” line... like, there’s no way he’s not involved.

Now, the game over screen is very interesting. Gaster asks us if we want to continue on after we die, and if we say no, the world was “covered in darkness” and we get to listen to some very pretty, but melancholy and slightly ominous music, while we wait in the blank void for Gaster to let us restart. It reminds me of when Chara destroys the world and there’s only howling winds to listen to until they decide to talk to us. Actually, the more I compare the two, the more similar these scenes are.

Frisk is at the mercy of a being more powerful than them, who’s the one that gets to decide if they can continue interacting with the world (with Chara you have to convince them to remake the world). Gaster doesn’t let Frisk reload the timeline themselves, almost as if Gaster is the one with control over the timeline. Gaster bluntly tells Frisk that they failed to save the world, puts them in a time-out as some, frankly, kinda messed up punishment for saying no to restarting, and after a while of presumably contemplating their failure, it’s only then that Gaster lets Frisk try again.

I read a very cool theory that at the start with the survey, when you accept the agreement, you give up your determination to Gaster. This lets the Game Over screen make a lot more sense in context. Gaster is the one who gets to decide when we get to reload the timeline and even where (I saw someone point out that Kris & company typically don’t respawn right by a save point like in Undertale, rather closer to where you last died, that only happens a few times in UT I believe). If this is true that’s... more than a little concerning, but it’s cool too!

Ralsei isn’t evil but he’s certainly suspicious

NOW, let’s talk about everyone’s favorite fluffy boy! Evil Ralsei sounds like the most boring and predictable twist ever. But I’m willing to bet money that there will be a couple of twists with Ralsei’s motives and who he actually is. It’s kinda interesting how Ralsei knows Kris and Susie’s names already, and that he’s the one who tells Kris to direct the soul to Susie, obviously to help out Susie, but maybe also to have a private conversation with Kris?

Gaster never intended for the vessel to be discarded, so it was most likely going to take the place of the human from the prophecy, yet Kris is also one of those “wonderful people” we’re going to meet (Gaster says something to this affect when we name ourselves Kris, note that he only does this with major characters like Susie, Ralsei, and Noelle, who looks like she’s joining us later, and says something different when we call ourselves Toriel, Sans, etc). What I’m getting at is that I’m pretty sure Ralsei either knows the name of the “creator”, the vessel, or both even, and that Kris was also going to join our adventure despite being an extra human. Similar to how Noelle is apparently an extra monster for the Legend.

Back to Ralsei, he definitely seems to know more than he lets on, and could also be lying about some things. It’s pretty interesting that the Spade kingdom’s fountain is the one that was made recently and that we’re supposed to destroy, in contrast to Ralsei’s fountain, which, despite apparently being around for longer, doesn’t have his own subjects? Yet another interesting thing is how Ralsei is usually referred to as a Lightner when he’s with Kris, or with both Kris and Susie.

If Ralsei is hiding something or lying about stuff, I don’t think he’s doing it maliciously. It could be directions from Gaster or something like that. Ralsei’s similarities to Asriel are also very suspicious, and I find the idea of those two not being related at all extremely unconvincing. He acts like a goody two shoes version of Asriel, with his flaws relating to how much of a doormat he is. He’s basically the inverse of the Absolute God of Hyperdeath. Despite how much he advises against fighting anyone, he lets us fight people as much as we please.

Personally, I think he’s a post-pacifist Flowey. It just makes sense to me. Ralsei looks like he’s trying to imitate his idea of Frisk (you can play Frisk as a huge jerk in pacifist yet Asriel still thinks Frisk is super cool), and thinks nonviolence is the way to get the happy ending. He also uses some of the same lines as Flowey in the first battle of the game. I think he’s being manipulated somewhat by Gaster, probably regarding his memories, so he’s actually being genuine as opposed to putting on an act. Although the idea of Ralsei trying to guilt trip us when we drop the manual too many times is hilarious. I also like to think his Light World form is a flower.

The Skeleton Brothers

Last but not least, Sans and Papyrus. Sans, like always, seems to know more about what’s going on. You could interpret Sans as not knowing who we are, but I think he’s actually trolling us. He acts like he knows Kris at first, probably because he’s aware that we don’t know this is their first meeting. “Look who it is! How’s it going kid?” is what you say to someone you met before, I don’t care what anyone says.

Pretending to know someone is a weird joke for a first meeting, imo, unless he means it as a inside joke for Frisk, and isn’t really talking to Kris at that moment. Then, when we say “great to see you again” Sans pretends we’re a weirdo to make fun like he usually does, not giving away that he recognizes Frisk’s soul and putting them on edge as a result (probably failing on the latter at least lbr), so Frisk gets to feel sheepish while Kris is confused as fuck.

I’m not... completely certain from what timeline Sans is, and I’m pretty certain it’s a Sans from one of the Undertale timelines, with the joke about knowing us and how he’s the only returning character with an unchanged sprite. The easiest would be a Genocide run, maybe he didn’t really get killed and if that’s the case, he really has nothing left to live for so might as well go to a different universe, especially if the anomaly is running around and possibly mucking things up again. But why does he have Grillby’s bar with him? I guess he did leave it behind in the Genocide timeline and he said he’s “going to Grillby’s” so that would make sense.

But what about Papyrus? Papyrus throws the biggest wrench in these theories about this being the same Sans because we don’t know anything about this Papyrus. If it’s the DR version of Papyrus then that means there’s a DR version of Sans around with no little brother, and I can’t see UT Sans being that selfish. Post-pacifist would work better, I think. Papyrus is alive in that timeline and maybe if it was important enough they’d leave their friends behind to the DR universe but I kinda can’t see them doing that?

Any other timeline besides Pacifist and Genocide doesn’t work because Grillby never leaves his bar alone for Sans to take (I can’t see him doing that if Grillby is still tending to it). Although I will say if this is a Papyrus who knows who Frisk is, I can see Papyrus being able to play dumb about the similarities he sees between Kris and Frisk, including the soul. He’s always been good at hiding how powerful he is (and seems to be aware of Sans’ teleportation and study of different timelines), so he could just leave more hints about the apparent dimensional travel going on between these games but never being too obvious about it.

Also, I have to say I don’t think either of them are aware of Gaster being involved, although I could be wrong, there’s not much to indicate for either or. Oh, and since Gaster seems to be such a big deal in this game, I think we have a good chance of finally knowing more of the skelebros’ backstory.

Predictions for the full game

There’s no way “your choices don’t matter” is going to be 100% endorsed by the game, even with only one ending. I feel like the ending will be like the “despite everything, it’s still you” line, ie it’ll have a different feel depending on what you do. That particular mirror line still appears whether you do pacifist or when you’re at LV 18. It sounds bittersweet and affectionate when you’ve shown mercy, but when you’ve been pretty dusty, it sounds almost... judgmental. Like wow, you didn’t improve yourself at all, huh?

We already kinda see this with when you fight the Darkners or spare them all (which I definitely think will have a butterfly effect, along with freeing Jevil maybe). The fight ending is more somber while the spare ending is a lot more funny. I highly doubt Deltarune will go full grimdark, even if there will be challenges and horrifying things to discover. I’m sure the ending will be satisfying and have some sort of hopeful tone.

Anyway, now for less big picture things. I’d LOVE for Monster Kid to have a bigger role in the later parts of the game, since they were basically Frisk’s only peer in the underground that they could count on not to kill them (yes Flowey I’m shading you), and I have a big soft spot for their friendship, despite it being rather minor. If the soul belongs to Frisk like I think it does, there could be some interesting interactions. Especially since Frisk is closer to their version of MK than Kris is to the one they know.

However, I highly doubt it. MK doesn’t have a portrait or their own soundbites. I do think part of the game will be Kris improving their relationships with the monsters though, and MK will be one of them. They seem to count on each other to be group partners when they need to, but they’re not close at all. MK looks like they have a tendency to put their foot in their mouth around Kris and doesn’t really get them. I’m thinking that’ll change depending on our choices whenever we get a chance to interact with them. Either that, or there will be a running cycle of MK accidentally annoying Kris, them realizing it and getting uncomfortable, awkward silence ensues, rinse and repeat. RIP school friends.

Noelle will definitely be a big character, since like many predicted, she’s coming to the Dark World. Rudy is almost certainly going to die and that will affect her character arc, along with her seemingly strained relationship with her mother (her being too scared to ask her mom for the house keys raises a red flag).

I think her and Susie will get off on the wrong foot, Noelle will come on too strong and Susie thinks she’s making fun of her and doesn’t actually want to be her friend, because why would she? As they have to interact more in the Dark World though, I’m sure eventually Susie will realize she was being sincere, they’ll become good friends, and even start dating toward the end. Unlike with Alphys and Undyne, I don’t think we’ll get to be a wingman. We might attempt it, but nothing comes from it and it’s just those two becoming a couple on their own to follow the “your choices don’t matter” theme.

Berdly kinda seems like he’s just going to be a jerk character with funny lines, but he does have a portrait and unique soundbites, so I wouldn’t be surprised if he gets an arc to himself. Maaaaybe he’ll join the party but who really knows. I’m applying this same “maybe” to all new school characters that have the portrait, because why bother giving those to characters with minor roles? Maybe so we can see what they look like better but eh.

Also this is more of a personal preference of mine but I don’t want more villains like the king... a big appeal to me with Undertale is how no one is completely evil and every major character gets their happy ending (except Asriel, Chara, post-Genocide run Frisk, and Gaster, more on that in a little) and is generally written to be flawed but likable and understandable in their own way. I can deal with the king because the fairytale/Alice in Wonderland vibes of the Dark World gives me the impression that it’s meant to have a black-and-white story to tell, where the heroes defeat the bad guy with very little depth, especially if it was created by Asriel, but I think as we explore the Dark World more, it will be more gray.

Timeline shenanigans

(Please also read the last paragraph in the last section for added context)

As I stated before, the universe of Deltarune comes across to me as an imperfectly created AU in a post-Undertale ending setting. This is a big, albeit maybe unlikely wish of mine, but I’m hoping that those who didn’t get an actual happy ending in Undertale will by the end of Deltarune. I think it’s significant how you’re told to play Deltarune only after finishing Undertale. Outside of it generally bring more enjoyable when you recognize the characters and get the references, I think it’s also important to understand the story.

Toby has stated that Deltarune “is a different world with different rules, but that doesn’t mean there won’t be no connections between [it and Undertale.]” If you got a happy ending in Undertale, Deltarune isn’t a sequel to that. It’s a sequel to the soulless-pacifist/genocide ending, or a sequel to a pacifist ending unrelated to our own. Undertale has already made a point to say there’s other AUs and timelines going on separate from ours, which what I think Toby means by our specific playthrough being “untouched” if we got the pacifist ending.

Also, about the 3 save files. They are, frankly, extremely confusing to me, but I still have some things to say. It’s interesting how Asriel’s drawers (and I think other places in the room) each contain different things between the different save files. I have to wonder if they’ll be implemented in the story somehow, and if the differences will increase as the story goes on, but I can’t see how Toby will do that without making multiple endings in the process? I wonder if we’ll have to use them in the same way Omega Flowey did (who had multiple save files according to the souls).

Chapter 2

As for chapter 2, like I said earlier, I highly, highly doubt Kris is going to kill any monsters, that just wouldn’t fit with what we know of them so far. I wouldn’t be surprised if they do attempt to attack the soul though. I’m leaning more towards them threatening it, doing a fakeout stab or something (“who’s in control NOW?”), and dumping the soul somewhere. Maybe they’d succeed in killing it but the soul would just reload, to the last save point even, back within Kris, which they’re probably aware of. There’d be no point in killing it when it’d just come back to life, so I think Kris is going to get rid of it in a nonviolent way.

I’m not sure if we’d go straight to what happens there though? I heard in Mother 3, a game Toby clearly likes, each chapter starts off with a different character’s perspective or something, which would be good for suspense in Deltarune ch 2. We’d probably play as Susie or Noelle at first, I’m thinking Susie in particular. We’d see what her home life is like and where she lives (big mysteries in the game and a point of concern considering her eating habits). She’d go to school, but Kris isn’t there because they’re sleeping in and didn’t feel like going. They’d probably get away with it by telling Toriel they’re sick because literally everyone talked about how being possessed was making them look ill.

Susie wanders around town for a bit after school, mustering up the courage to ask Kris if they still want to go back to the Dark World because what if skipping school was their subtle way of rejecting her friendship? She comes across the red soul, goes what the fuck that’s KRIS’ soul?? Is immediately concerned and brings it back to them. Kris looks like they don’t give a shit but is internally freaking out, makes up some excuse, looking entirely too shady so the Kris-is-evil theorists can have some fuel before being shot down later.

And then we’d switch to their perspective (or, I guess we get to play as the red soul) where they talk to the red soul, initially Kris is very aggressive but somehow we figure out a way to communicate with Kris and tell our side of the story. Apologies are made and Kris is somewhat mollified. Maybe this time Kris consents to being possessed but makes up some ground rules or the two work together to find a different vessel, maybe the golden flower in Asgore’s shop?

Also in the middle of all this there’s a flashback to how the soul ended up where Susie found it. I think this could all work with Noelle instead too. We don’t know what she does after school and she has known Kris for a long time, she might know what their real soul looks like (Like I said earlier, I do think Kris’ actual soul is red) or at least how human souls aren’t white and are right side up.

Summarization of the most important theories I guess

—Kris is being possessed by the red soul, which belongs to an teenage Frisk after a pacifist or soulless pacifist route.

—Considering the options for when you talk to Sans (“Great to see you again!” vs “Who the hell are you?”) I think one half of most options (probably the left side) is something Frisk would like to say while the other half is what Kris wants to say.

—The Deltarune Universe was created by both UT Asriel (more specifically post-pacifist Flowey) and Chara, with help from Gaster. However, he’s manipulating them for his own agenda which is why the world is more than a little weird. Asriel and Chara probably don’t know the other is working with Gaster as well.

—Chara is aware that Gaster is shady and doesn’t fully trust him, to the point they’re interfering and outright arguing with him, unlike UT Asriel, who might have his memories scrambled up.

—Kris is Chara’s self-insert for the Deltarune world, while Ralsei is Flowey. I’m not exactly sure if DR Asriel exists.

—Even if Gaster will be an antagonist he’s getting an redemption arc. He just wants to exist again, but he’s getting too desperate.

—Sans (who is his UT self as far as I’m concerned) is here to keep an eye on the anomaly (Frisk) and make sure they don’t abuse their time-travel powers again. UT Papyrus is also here, knows more than one might expect, possibly to befriend the anomaly to discourage them from doing anything questionable (although I doubt he thinks badly of the anomaly, whether it’s us or Frisk).

—We should have read the fine print before “accepting everything that will happen from now on” because doing that allowed Gaster to steal our determination and now it’s his turn on the timeline.

—Determination still exists, otherwise we couldn’t save and reload the timeline, it just hasn’t been named by Alphys like in UT.

—Gaster is the one who put Frisk’s soul in Kris, while Chara was trying to tell Frisk what their real name is, before getting cut off.

—I think every character is getting a happy ending it’ll just take a while to get there.

—Not exactly a theory, but I find it very interesting how the Angel in the Legend is seen as some sort of enemy to peace between the Lightners and Darkners, while also being revered as a god in Hometown’s religion. Not to mention how the Angel in the prophecy of the Delta Rune is either Frisk, Chara, or Asriel in Undertale.

Annnnnddd that’s it I guess? Congrats if you got to the end, and I appreciate people reading this even if you didn’t read the whole thing. I’m not tagging this because I don’t want people coming onto this post to say how Chara or Kris are definitely evil, but I don’t mind discussion and people telling me they disagree with any of my theories.

[tally-kiza]

Undyne Headcanons

UNDERTALE

- After Undyne’s parents died when she was young, she became determined to get justice for al monsters who had to die without seeing the surface. She went to Asgore to fight him so she could get into the Royal Guard, but instead Asgore trained her. It wasn’t long before she felt like a daughter to him. It warmed his broken heart. Many years passed before he finally let Undyne into the Guard. As the king expected, she quickly climbed up the ranks into captain.

- Undyne and Papyrus’s friendship is full of sarcasm and weird jokes (like that time in canon where they joked about spider-ducks); a typical offbeat humor. They also get into weird competitions with each other, like who can drink 8 glasses of milk fastest, and who can leave the biggest splatter by smashing tomatoes. Watching their chaos is... an experience.

- Undyne is her students' favorite teacher. Most consider her gym class awesome. Obstacle courses, extreme dodgeball, bench pressing the students. The kiddos, humans and monsters alike, have a blast. (Even thought she's not so good at the whole grading thing.)

- Even on the surface, where Undyne has proper recipes, she's still a terrible cook. At least her house isn't always on fire, though. Unfortunately, Alphys is also a terrible cook. She can only manage noodles and take-out. After a few months of this awful diet, they both agreed to take cooking lessons. It went swimmingly!! ...Yeah, they got kicked out after 3 classes. Undyne only barely managed to reign in her chaotic nature enough to learn how to make a salad and boil water with burning her house down.

- Owns a bunch of giant swords on the surface --- Swears like a sailor --- Hated nerdy stuff as a kid, but now is super supportive about it --- Blushes and gets a dreamy look on her face every time Alphys is mentioned; Even when they’ve been married for 20 years lol

UNDERSWAP

- She’s timid when Chara first meets them, but by the end of their journey, her passionate side really shines through. It just takes a bit for her to come out of her shell. But once she’s herself, it’s very clear how passionate and exuberant Undyne can be! Mostly about science, anime, and Alphys lol.

- Met Alphys at the dump. Undyne was looking for spare parts for her experiments when she spotted Alphys. The dino was staring at the waterfalls, contemplating her decision to be captain of the guard. Alphys never really wanted to hurt humans but she did want to free everyone, so it was a difficult decision for her. Noticing the other’s sadness, Undyne nervously introduced herself to snap Alph out of her reverie. They quickly became fast friends (and fell in love huehuehue)

- Experiments tend to go a little haywire when she’s really excited (and by haywire, i mean... explosion-inducing.) There are permanent burn marks on the walls of her lab. She doesn’t bother to clean them off anymore, not when they appear so often.

- Even more affected by the amalgamates than UT Alphys. Undyne truly thought she had saved everyone; she was so proud! But when she saw what the aftermath, she was devastated. The scientist never thought about her reputation, only how horribly she ruined them, how much pain she caused for them and their families. It was unbearable, knowing she was causing so much suffering. So Undyne hid them, not because she was worried of how people would think of her, but to prevent their families from seeing how devastated their loved ones had become. Chara reminded her, though, that she was just causing more suffering by making those families never know what had occurred.

- Undyne has been friends with Papyrus since they were kids. Shortly before he graduated, she got him an apprenticeship with the royal scientist. And even when he quit, they stayed friends, and often cook up explode-y experiments together. Both of them are still horrible cooks. ‘Dyne also has him join her to watch anime together. Pap isn’t as invested as she is, but he likes it well enough.

- Meme illiterate --- Loves side scroller games --- Can’t cook to save her life --- Plays piano for Chara when they first meet --- Met Napstablook at their cousin’s human fan club meeting. NTT felt guilty when they started distancing themself from her after they got famous, but the more time went on, the more awkward it would be if they returned, so they just.. never did... sorry...

UNDERFELL

- Papyrus is Undyne’s second-in-command and best friend. Neither of them will ever admit it, but they wouldn’t trade each other’s friendship for the world. And more so, they’re just chaotic goofballs a lot of the time. Normally Pap can calm Undyne’s hectic nature, but once she convinces him to join her mischievous plans, they are an unstoppable force of nature.

- Oddly enough, for being so chaotic and destructive, Undyne avoids fighting people as much as possible. She’ll always choose verbally de-escalating a confrontation over physically fighting any day of the week. Not because she’s a weak fighter, (no, if anything Undyne’s the strongest opponent you could ever face, second to Sans) but because she wants to minimize the bloodshed. The captain hates seeing her race at each other’s throats; it’s heartbreaking. So when it comes to monsters, she will always choose the most peaceful option until she has no other choice.

- When it comes to humans, though... ohohoho Undyne is merciless. She doesn’t even give the human the chance to run away. Frisk can’t beat her, all they can do is survive as long as possible. That is, until Pap shows up and distracts undyne while Frisk escapes. (Pap loves protecting helpless creatures, and Frisk was just too cute of a kid to let Undyne slaughter them). From there it proceeded like in canon UT: the human and Pap ran away to Hotland until Undyne passed out from the heat. Frisk stopped and gave her some water before the fish lady was revived, glared at them, and stomped back home.

- From there on, Frisk befriends her the same way as UT, except Papyrus doesn’t insist on hanging out with Undyne. In fact, he urges the human not to, but Frisk decides to go back and talk with her anyway. Pap tags along only to protect frisk! Definitely not to make up with Undyne. The hang out progressed as normal (just with ‘Dyne being a little more destructive and ranting about Paps’ betrayal for a bit), and she and Pap call up Frisk often with their usual snarky banter.

- Probably sets her house on fire on purpose. Why wait for the fire to come to her, when she can get one leg up on the fire!! Oh no... now she’s literally trying to fistfight her burning house. Can someone get a fire extinguisher!? Additionally, everything she cooks ends up on fire. Boils water? Fire. Makes a salad? Fire. Looks at a box of cereal? Fire. She’s like a Sim.

- Always gives the guard dogs pets --- Swears all the time and super crass. She doesn’t even censor herself around Frisk --- Wears her hair in a bun to prevent enemies from grabbing it during battle --- Has a very obvious crush on Alphys. Always gets shy and blushy when she talks about her. Pap teases her about it constantly

SWAPFELL

- Met Papyrus when he applied for an apprenticeship with the other Royal Scientist. The two of them quickly became fast friends: science-y, anime-loving nerds. But when Undyne started the DT experiments, Pap left. He could not in good faith sit back and watch her play god with people’s souls. They had a huge argument before he stormed out and they haven’t talked since.

- Over the course of Chara’s journey, as they have phone calls with Papyrus, and eventually Undyne, the two of them slowly begin talking things out. And by the end of the true pacifist route Pap and ‘Dyne have reconciliated and are friends again. It’s truly heartwarming!

- Rumors claim that Undyne is some kind of horrible mad scientist. Screams and shrieks are often heard emanating from the lab, surely awful and painful experiments are going on. But nobody dares go near the lab to investigate, fearing their lives... but NOPE! it’s just Undyne’s shocked wails at dramatic plot twists in her animes, and the sadness of particularly brutal scenes. Chara was terrified they met her, believing all those rumors. imagine their relief when they found out she’s just a nerd.

- Has the same motivations as US Undyne when it comes to the amalgamates, but SF ‘Dyne also hid them to try and fix them. Do more research, more experiments, anything to undo what happened! But none of it worked, so she just gave up...

- She is very curt when you first meet her, but it’s not long before that stony exterior melts away to reveal Undyne’s true form: a chaotic and excitable nerd with access to highly dangerous chemicals and explosives! ‘Dyne’s not crazy, she’s just really passionate and reckless about the things she loves.

- Loves how strong Alphys is. It’s the coolest! (But they both think they’re each the protector in their relationship lol) --- Created NTT to kill humans, but they just ignored her after she made their body, and left to pursue music instead. How rude! --- Adores vocaloid songs! Her favorite is “Paradichlorobenzene.” She even learned to play it on her piano! --- Addicted to coffee. She is VERY hyper at times. --- Tends to prefer darker animes but she secretly loves Mew Mew Kissy Cutie. No one can find out. Or else.