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Adam had the power of an archangel inside of him
And then wanted to be Small
#adam was comfortable being small#being insignificant#and that's what made him beautiful#letting go of the notion of Grand purpose#the achilles heel of road narratives is they look outside not inside and it should be both#no one was a premium on outsider narratives because that Is The Human Condition#meaning making and what is the point#you can have an unstable identity regardless of your gender sexuality#i promise you there are so so SO many ways to be an outsider#it is not nuclear fam vs everything else i guarantee you there are housewives with internal upheaval on par with romanticized road stories#to think otherwise is an erasure of internal complexity#not everyone has the mobility or health or privilege to be on a road#some of us are stuck building and maintaining it#others joyride#my economic class is coloring my views again#i know#road narratives are also the lifeblood trope of fantasy narratives not just queer ones#and queer is a good reading but to say that straight ppl can't understand being an outsider is just...don't y'all have straight friends?#or do you assume aunt carol is a 2d caricature who can't understand Romantic Things like why are we here#File under All of Literature and The Human Condition#As much as I love oppressive social structures#I don't think being disabled or queer means I and I alone understand the feeling of loneliness or a lack of purpose because that's Life#Anyway I love that Adam wanted to be small#He Got It#it's very end of Candide#Tend to your own garden stuff#I just think the segregation of This story is for US and That story is for THEM ain't ever gonna Be It#And stories aren't for everyone but oh oh OH Trying to Find Yourself and Meaning and Purpose is for Everyone#anyway what was i talking about again?#owning your own struggle does not mean denying others may struggle similarly even if theyre not exactly like me
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how fucking ironic of charles saying 'you're not alone' and then being left alone by his loved ones
#:)#making my life worse by seeking angst in insignificant scenes#anyways still being sad by the fact that they – his best friend sister and some of the other mutants – left him dying on the beach :/#xmen#x men#charles xavier#professor x#cherik#xmen shenanigans
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i need to get this out of my head before i continue clone^2 but danny being the first batkid. Like, standard procedure stuff: his parents and sister die, danny ends up with Vlad Masters. He drags him along to stereotypical galas and stuff; Danny is not having a good time.
He ends up going to one of the Wayne Galas being hosted ever since elusive Bruce Wayne has returned to Gotham. Vlad is crowing about having this opportunity as he's been wanting to sink his claws into the company for a long while now. Danny is too busy grieving to care what he wants.
And like most Galas, once Vlad is done showing him off to the other socialites and the like, he disappears. Off to a dark corner, or to one of the many balconies; doesn't matter. There he runs into said star of the show, Bruce who is still young, has been Batman for at least a year at this point, but still getting used to all these damn people and socializing. He's stepped off to hide for a few minutes before stepping back into the shark tank.
And he runs into a kid with circles under his eyes and a dull gleam in them. Familiar, like looking into a mirror.
Danny tries to excuse himself, he hasn't stopped crying since his parents died and it's been months. He rubs his eyes and stands up, and stumbles over a half-hearted apology to Mister Wayne. Some of Vlad's etiquette lessons kicking in.
Bruce is awkward, but he softens. "That's alright, lad," he says, pulling up some of that Brucie Wayne confidence, "I was just coming out here to get some fresh air."
There's a little pressing; Bruce asks who he's here with, Danny says, voice quiet and grief-stricken, that he's with his godfather Vlad Masters. Bruce asks him if he knows where he is, and Danny tells him he does. Bruce offers to leave, Danny tells him to do whatever he wants.
It ends with Bruce staying, standing off to the side with Danny in silence. Neither of them say a word, and Danny eventually leaves first in that same silence.
Bruce looks into Vlad Masters after everything is over, his interest piqued. He finds news about him taking in Danny Fenton: he looks into Danny Fenton. He finds news articles about his parents' deaths, their occupations, everything he can get his hands on.
At the next gala, he sees Danny again. And he looks the same as ever: quiet like a ghost, just as pale, and full of grief. Bruce sits in silence with him again for nearly ten minutes before he strikes a conversation.
"Do you like to do anything?"
Nothing. Just silence.
Bruce isn't quite sure what to do: comfort is not his forte, and Danny doesn't know him. He's smart enough to know that. So he starts talking about other things; anything he can think of that Brucie Wayne might say, that also wasn't inappropriate for a kid to hear.
Danny says nothing the entire time, and is again the first to leave.
Bruce watches from a distance as he intercts with Vlad Masters; how Vlad Masters interacts with him. He doesn't like what he sees: Vlad Masters keeps a hand on Danny's shoulder like one would hold onto the collar of a dog. He parades him around like a trophy he won.
And there are moments, when someone gets too close or when someone tries to shake Danny's hand, of deep possessiveness that flints over Vlad Masters' eyes. Like a dragon guarding a horde.
He plays the act of doting godfather well: but Bruce knows a liar when he sees one. Like recognizes like.
Danny is dull-eyed and blank faced the entire time; he looks miserable.
So Bruce tries to host more parties; if only so that he can talk to Danny alone. Vlad seems all too happy to attend, toting Danny along like a ribbon, and on the dot every hour, Danny slips away to somewhere to hide. Bruce appears twenty minutes later.
"I was looking into your godfather's company," he says one night, trying to think of more things to say. Some nights all they do is sit in silence. "Some of my shareholders were thinking of partnering up--"
"Don't."
He stops. Danny hardly says a word to him, he doesn't even look at him -- he's sitting on the ground, his head in his knees. Like he's trying to hide from the world. But he's looking, blue eyes piercing up at Bruce.
Bruce tilts his head, practiced puppy-like. "Pardon?"
"Don't." Danny says, strongly. "Don't make any deals with Vlad."
It's the most words Danny's spoken to him, and there's a look in his eyes like a candle finding its spark. Something hard. Bruce presses further, "And why is that?"
The spark flutters, and flushes out. Danny blinks like he's coming out of a trance, and slumps back into himself. "Just don't."
Bruce stares at him, thoughtful, before looking away. "Alright. I won't."
And they fall back into silence.
Danny, when he leaves, turns to look at Bruce, "I mean it." He says; soft like he's telling a secret, "Don't make any deals with him. Don't be alone with him. Don't work with him."
He's scampered away before Bruce can question him further.
(He never planned on working with Vlad Masters and his company; he's done his research. He's seen the misfortune. But nothing ever leads back to him. There's no evidence of anything. But Danny knows something.)
At their next meeting, Danny starts the conversation. It's new, and it's welcomed. He says, cutting through their five minute quiet, that he likes stars. And he doesn't like that he can't see them in Gotham.
Bruce hums in interest, and Danny continues talking. It's as if floodgates had been opened, and as Bruce takes a sip of his wine, it tastes like victory.
("Tucker told me once--") ("Tucker?") ("Oh-- uh, one of my best friends. He's a tech geek. We haven't talked in a while.")
(Danny shut down in his grief -- his friends are worried, but can't reach him. When he goes back to the manor with Vlad, he fishes out his phone and sends them a message.)
(They are ecstatic to hear from him.)
It all culminates until one day, when Danny is leaving to go back inside, that Bruce speaks up. "You know," He says, leaning against the railing. "The manor has many rooms; plenty of space for a guest."
The implication there, hidden between the lines. And Danny is smart, he looks at Bruce with a sharp glean in his eyes, and he nods. "Good to know."
The next time they see each other, Danny has something in his hands. "Can you hold onto something for me?" He asks.
When Bruce agrees, Danny places a pearl into his palm. or, at least, it's something that looks like a pearl. Because it's cold to the touch; sinking into Bruce's white silk gloves with ease and shimmering like an opal. It moves a little as it settles into his hand, and the moves like its full of liquid.
Bruce has never seen anything like it before, but he does know this; it's not human. "What is it?" He asks, and Danny looks uncomfortable.
"I can't tell you that." He says, shifting on his foot like he's scared of someone seeing it. "But please be careful with it. Treat it like it's extremely fragile."
When Bruce gets home, he puts it in an empty ring box and hides the box in the cave. He tries researching into what it is. he can't find anything concrete.
Everything comes to a head one day when Danny appears at the manor's doorstep one evening, soaking wet in the rain, and bleeding from the side.
#dpxdc#dp x dc#danny fenton is not the ghost king#dpxdc crossover#dpdc#dp x dc crossover#dpxdc prompt#man i just really need more dpdc stuff where danny and bruce have a good relationship. like man i NEED it. like i need to see these two#bonding together. and not in a cracky 'oh danny is a distant friend/cousin/etc' stuff but like. active participants in each other's lives#or as active as can be in this case. i neeeeed these two getting along and caring about one another#this idea came to me like last night and hasn't left since nd it was driving me up the wall to think about both positively and negatively b#i neeeded someone to hear about this or i was gonna implode#danny is the first son#tried to just get the general gist of the idea down but i definitely thought of the idea that bruce lowkey suspects vlad for having a hand#Vlad allows Danny to sneak off because he thinks Danny is alone. if he knew Bruce was there he'd be piiisssed and would put a stop to it#Sam and Tucker are alive they just got ghosted for a bit by danny bc he was in Major Grief and didn't wanna socialize. He couldn't go to#them because he didn't wanna put them in danger via Vlad.#oh that thing he handed Bruce? Yeah that's his ghost core. I have a headcanon (that isnt always applied) that ghosts can take their cores#out of their bodies at will and painlessly and without issue. and its common practice actually to do so bc they can be a not insignificant#distance away from said core before problems start to act up. and its common for ghosts to leave their physical cores at their lairs for#safekeeping because as long as the physical core is fine: so is the ghost. they can reform if their body gets destroyed. it also acts as a#fast travel sometimes. where they can reform at their core in an instant. its not inspired in the slightest by SU but i do see the overlap#most cores are pretty small for safety sake: its harder to hit if its small. and they're pr resilient too but its better to be safe than#sorry. so yeah. danny essentially gave bruce the physical embodiment of his soul and indirectly said#'if anything happens to me at least i'll be safe with you'#danny doesn't know he's batman btw#starry rambles.#was gonna go into danny becoming a vigilante beside bruce but im sleeeepy so i'll do that in a reblog. he's gonna go by nightingale if#anyone is interested. stereotypical but to be frank it is a *good* name imo. has a good amount of syllables and consonants to it#and the bird theme. and since its part of an ancestral name it has even more backing for it being bird-y without being meta
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I have indeed been simply deleting asks that I receive about this, but I just want to say. I find it so discouraging that people are so thoroughly nation-state pilled that they think that the only way for millions of one group of people to be safe living in a geographical region is the existence of a nation state which is actively enacting ethnic cleansing on the other people in that region. GOD that's fucking depressing I'm so fucking depressed.
#I've been trying to find a way to state how I feel about this for months and months and months.#like I desperately need people to know where I stand on this because it's actually very important to me as a human being and as a Jew.#and I don't want to do it in a way that detracts from the people who are Actually suffering but like#I do think that the psychological impact of having this done in your name is not insignificant. its. really bad. its compounding a lot of#really bad things.#and i hate it.
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you ever think about vex and percy being so stand-offish and snarky to vox machina but vex being the first one to call them all family and percy cushioning scanlan’s leaving by reminding them they are a family, and percy quietly confessing to grog that it’s nice to have an older brother again? you ever think about the fact that percy and vex, members of a party that — except on rare occasions — existed as a group of seven, had five kids?
#in case it wasn’t clear. I do#trying to work on fics for perc’ahlia week is just every five minutes being like. what if i lost my mind about this tiny insignificant#parallel. except it’s not insignificant to me it’s life ruining#the two smartest in the room to literal parents of five children pipeline is real and they’re living it#percy de rolo#vex’ahlia#percy + vex#vox machina#cr1#critical role#de rolo kids#tlovm spoilers#that always feels like an assumptive tag but better safe than sorry yk
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Bryce giving the starsword to Nesta and specifically telling her to go do something with it, and the fandom immediately launching into debates about which character is going to use the sword is so ???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
#like not even 50% on that poll for Nesta? the person who was given the sword with specific instructions?#the way there's no evidence she's giving it away#i can see you assuming things because you KNOW that's not some insignificant moment#like the most i'll take is that it's a reason to sideline nesta in the next book#but that's such an odd way to sideline her by giving her the sword they made such a big deal out of#sorry i'm being petty ignore this#acotar
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I blame omegaverse for popularizing this misunderstanding, so I cant be too mad at y’all, but I need you to know. Heat is a term that comes from actual biology and is reserved for female animals. As in, like, afab female.
If your demon is in heat, he wants to get railed.
If your demon wants to rail you, that’s called rut.
#If you talk about our demon blorbos ‘going into heat’ people will colloquially know what you mean#and ok fine whatever i dont have skin in that particular game#but at least be aware of this. being a writer y’all should know what words mean#obey me smut#ask to tag#insignificant nitpick but a nitpick nonetheless#nsft#i guess
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was thinking the other day about how parasites are ganondorf’s solution for so many things. now cant unsee him being a massive nerd about parasites
#parasites cw#trypophobia#ocarina of time#tloz#ganondorf#zelda#nabooru#morpha#barinade#gohma#this makes less sense if u haven’t seen my tweet barrage but yeah oot ganondorf & his silly giant parasites. i love them#yes i know morpha isnt technically a parasite but still#it IS an insanely huge single-called organism tho. which must be why its ‘water’ isnt normal water lol#just the fluid surrounding its nucleus#i think he would have an interest in funny creatures like that especially if they’re distinctly nonhuman#but him being interested in parasites specifically makes sense to me#the idea of a comparatively tiny & insignificant being infiltrating a much larger one. and then wreaking utter havoc on it#while sustaining itself in the process#i think he would be really into slime molds too…..let him be a weird nerd…..
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the great thing about falling really deep into a new media niche is developing opinions on many new things. the terrible thing about falling really deep into a new media niche is developing opinions on many new things
#fjdkfdjkfd.#anyway. last week a trailer came out for something only called kidnap. which is hilarious because that's a blocked tumblr tag#it's a romance (with the kidnapper. who is secretly only doing it to pay a medical bill). i don't think it sounds or looks very good#& considering who is airing this and their history with Edgy Content the keyword here will probably be Bland. or maybe Toothless#but unfortunately...... tragically...... one of the leads is an actor i'll take in literally anything.#so i've spent my week periodically being attacked by this insignificant bit of knowledge and experiencing shrimp emotions#literally just. going about my day. thinking 'kidnap'. going OOF. then remembering i'm in the middle of brushing my teeth#also. i found out the original writer of bad romance & together with me is ALSO the writer of not me. and it's things like this#that would take like. twenty layers of explanation of these properties in general and also my takes on them specifically#and how it contrasts or aligns with their general perception. to even come CLOSE to explaining the mental hit i took from that#i need a corkboard and some red thread. and then probably three more corkboards#for day 1 that is. i think i have a week's worth of loosely connected spontaneous deep dive video essays i could do off the top of my head#ah well. the curse of having interests#*
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anyway Dr. WD Gaster being a soft and kind soul makes his character infinitely more interesting to me than him being evil or even just kinda mean. like his passion for his craft lies not in fucked up experiments, but in a genuine love for learning and the opportunity to teach others and do good by his people. he's definitely strange (all scientists are) and kinda intimidating but he's literally the most thoughtful and considerate person ever it's just a little bit hard to tell because of the way he speaks does anyone HEAR me. he's one of the few characters that WOULDN'T benefit from the mad scientist trope.
#hes just a nice old man to me. he LOVES his job and his friends and his people so so so much#and loving the world around you so much that you want to know everything about it is all science is really#he just speaks so matter-of-factly that its hard to find all of that emotion in his words#but the emotion isnt IN his words. its in the pauses in-between#its in the beat of quiet in the middle of his sentences; where he searches for the exact words to describe what hes thinking or feeling#because every experience is worth that much effort. no single thing is insignificant enough to be mindlessly approximated and forgotten.#its in the moment of silence after the player gives up. accepting your choice as it is --#-- but holding you on a dark screen just a moment longer to mourn a world lost to darkness#we always talk about “very very interesting” being one of his calling cards. but “wonderful” is one of his favorites as well.#undertale#deltarune#utdr#wd gaster#dr gaster#gaster#gaster undertale#gaster deltarune#wingdings gaster
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The Lonely Shore Devlog #9
( 07/06/2024 ) Chapter One, Part Two: 87,636 words Added: +40,887 words Total Wordcount: 201,865 words
Hey everyone! Popping in for the first devlog in a while. Apologies that I haven't posted one recently--mostly I've been hesitating because I feel like I don't have much new to say.
Still--this is long overdue.
There are a couple of reasons the update is taking a while to be completed. The first--and biggest--is that the ending scene(s) of the chapter are incredibly complex, coding-wise, for me. There are a few different variables to keep track of and I'm far too stubborn to adjust the plot to simplify.
To keep things vague, the MC gets the opportunity to do something, and can either go at it alone or bring Jay, Ravi, or both along. Which means there are essentially four different worldstates I'm accounting for. That being said, I'm finally at the end of it. There's still a bit that needs wrapping up, but it's coming.
Also, my mental health has been...pretty terrible, recently. Writing on top of mental illness and working full time has felt near impossible some days. I'm doing my best to take breaks and practice self-care, but unfortunately it doesn't always lend to the fastest writing.
The goal is to get the update out by the end of this month. I'm determined.
Thank you all for your patience, and here's a little plot-relevant teaser for your trouble:
#author posting#devlog#interactive fiction#preview#this all being said#i guess a 65k-ish update won't be insignificant#since that's longer than the prologue#sigh#just gotta finish it
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A thing on Uran and Helena in Pluto
Okay a short little thing on Pluto. Uran and Helena are my absolute favourite characters in Pluto. Urasawa has always had amazing side characters, from Mr. Rosso in Monster to Lee Harvey Oswald and Jackie in Billy Bat to God in 20th Century Boys, but very few have tied off the emotional ends of the story like Uran and Helena.
Maybe I'm projecting here but much like myself I feel like Urasawa is absolutely obsessed with Frankenstein. And he recognizes the influence Frankenstein has on Dr. Umataro Tenma. Or at the very least, the similarities between the two. And so when he made the protagonist of one of his most popular works Monster, Dr Kenzo Tenma, he solidified that connection. Kenzo Tenma calls back to Victor Frankenstein needing to end his creation while also calling back to Japan's other famous Tenma, thus making the connection explicit. Another throughline between the three of them is that all three are father figures to their creations and have obligations to their children, though all three have varying levels of success with them.
I've only read what I like to call Urasawa's "Core Four", conspiracy minded thrillers that are essentially road trips featuring usually two main protagonists that we see the world through, Monster, 20th Century Boys, Pluto and Billy Bat. Though I still haven't caught up to Asadora and that could still possibly fit this mold, Urasawa's Core Four share a lot of themes and ideas. One of the most important being the responsibility for one's creations, whether it was Kenji Endo and the Book of Prophecy or Kevin Yamagata and Billy Bat or Dr. Kenzo Tenma and Johan, all of his protagonists could arguably be seen as someone with the need to take up the responsibility of their creations. So where do the protagonists of Pluto fit in there? That's where Uran and Helena come in.
But first, we should take a look at Pluto's themes. While I could be wrong, at a cursory glance, I feel like the general consensus towards it's themes is that it's about hatred. I don't really think that's what it is as I feel like Urasawa is more trying to show us what it is to be human and what it is to be alive. And in that, he has a hidden protagonist in Pluto. Someone who's influence snakes through the plot and isn't seen much, but without who the story's themes would remain incomplete. Pluto tackles what it is to be alive through many things, such as memory, sadness, grief, hatred, love and parenthood. But none of that works without the realization by Tenma of his own mistakes. And Uran and Helena bookend these revelations and are absolutley key to understanding that.
In my favourite chapter of the series, Chapter 37, Uran goes from person to person as she finds a way to deal with her grief and eventually comes across Tobio's grave, Tenma having left recently. It's an absolutely beautiful chapter that shows Uran's humanity and Urasawa's love for sharing these kind and soft moments. But it also sheds a light on Tenma as Uran realizes someone who was grieving has just left. Without saying much at all we realize that Tenma has finally realized his mistakes. In the process of grieving one son, he lost the other. While remembering Tobio, he let Atom go. His grief towards Tobio is clear in the following chapter, Chapter 38. All of the things he wanted Atom to be; Tobio come back to life, Tobio's ghost punishing him, Atom rejected. And Tenma could only see that rejection, and not what he had, another son.
Uran shows us very clearly what Pluto, the story, is. It's a chapter in their lives. And we've come into a story nearing the end for Tenma. And it's through the humanity of two absolutely amazing characters in their own right, Uran and Helena, that we are able to so fully understand Tenma. Despite being robots, these two characters are the most alive of everyone. They love fully and freely and are catalysts of change. Uran's vibrant and full of life in a way that really sticks out. And Helena has such depth that it's evident in every scene she's in. She's not pointed out to be made by any famous scientist so all the life she has is her own. These two represent the life of robot's more than any other characters in the series.
So it's that much more poignant when Helena finally breaks down after putting on such a strong front of everybody. Grief intersects and she brings out Tenma's sadness as well. They've both been putting up such strong fronts that it's heartbreaking to see them collapse. It completes Tenma's growth and strikes a heartbreaking contrast between the two. Tenma became the way he is through the loss of his son whereas Helena doesn't even get to remember her own loss. It makes you wonder if the grief for her and Geischt's child compounds her sorrow too.
Without these two and their grief, a large part of Pluto becomes inaccessible. Pluto is largely about death so when two characters come in who've never had a hand in the grim work of taking life, you see the world through a lens that's absolutely crucial in order to fully connect with all of the character's and their situations. Death and Grief has scarred the characters in Pluto. Time and time again they've chosen the worst path. They've chosen revenge and hatred. But Uran and Helena are different. Without them, the story is incomplete. They provide an alternative. They provide the path towards healing.
im sorry for this one:
#naoki urasawa's pluto#helena#uran#pluto#pluto anime#umataro tenma#astro boy#this was supposed to be short#also its largely unreasearched#i would need to read the original atom and read all of urasawa's other works and read up on the gulf war before tackling a proper piece#random thoughts I didn't put in:#something i love about Pluto is how each robot is a reflection of their creators in some way or another with Uran being Ochanamizu's love#the combination of jackie and lee harvey oswald will probably throw off so many people who don't know(totally not why I did it)#also God#honestly though no side characters feel insignificant in Pluto#Some more shared ideas between the Core Four are the burdens we carry and share and the importance of stories in our lives
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Listen they barely interact face to face but Adam Warlock and Mistress Death have the funniest dynamic of all time actually.
#they hate each other they're best friends they're rivals they're lovers they're insignificant to one another. and also Thanos is there.#adam warlock#mistress death#thanos#adam magus#the magus#the goddess#and a surprise cameo from Norrin but I'm not tagging him.#thadam#cosmic marvel#art#this is old art but I was gonna draw more then just forgot this in my drafts for a year or two 😐 Being so brave and posting anyways#idk if these are even comprehensible to ppl who aren't super well versed in Starlin's comics but enjoy my sillies.#special shoutout to that time Death asked Thanos to kill Adam and he said no. :)#the way Adam just inserts himself into their relationship makes me scream this throuple is crazy
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Common reactions when feeding goys latkes:
Ew, it's hot and greasy
Ew, it's damp and cold
OH MY GOD THANK YOU THANK YOU I LOVE YOU FOREVER
Please bring me more
This is the first time I've ever felt lust (???)
Aren't these just hash browns?
Lockouts? Lock what nows?
#latke#latkes#POTATOES#god this is the best thing about being vaguely jewish#im so proud of my ancestors#for other things obviously#but the latkes are not insignificant#jewblr#jewish#judaism#judaica#jew-ISH#only vaguely i cannot emphasize enough#jewish cuisine#jew food#jewish culture
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Get away from me
#fields of mistria#fom#fom adeline#fom march#March the reason we don't talk during the week is because you're mean to me and I hate you#im sorry i feel like march has a lot of content in the game already either bc he was a favorite of the developers#or they (correctly) predicted that he was going to be popular#but it kind of makes me feel like the game is trying to push me towards him and i do not care for that#from the amount of events he gets featured in to how often NPCs are like 'no he's nice deep down!'#to him getting more overtly flirty dialogue when drunk & being framed as my rival#yknow all that#you are NOT my rival march you are an insignificant little blight on my life#my rival is Valen because it should be ME in a situationship with a condescending femme who i win over with my good heart#art
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"You're not thinking fourth dimensionally."
Excuse you, I’ve been doing nothing but thinking of the fourth dimension as a Byler. 🤨
I can’t stop thinking about how a wheel represented time freezing around Will. Likely representing a Wheeler.
#like I don’t stop thinking of how time is involved#and the implication of how romance is insignificant#is a very biased perspective#remember Back to the Future??? yeah. there’s romance in it and time travel.#the main song is the power of love#come on now#time travel existing Will being important AND having some romance can all co exist#he’s right about Willel stuff Brenner etc#but he’s just making assumptions about byler and seems to care very little about the romance plot anyway#byler#stranger things#again he’s missing the visual element#scripts don’t tell us everything
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