#bitterbridge

[mejcinta]

Aegon and Helaena creating Maelor 'on the bedroom floor' woulda actually saved House of the Dragon as a show, thank you very much! 'Butterfly Effect' and all that.

[asoiafandotherbooks]

TWOIAF/Fire & Blood: Maegor's War With The Faith

Warning, Spoilers Ahead…

Maegor has awoken from his coma. Remember the Ghost of High Heart’s quote: “…but when her eyes opened, oh, I woke from terror”? Well, the Faith Militant is soon to feel that same terror.

Cue “No Mister Nice Guy” by Alice Cooper. (Not that Maegor was ever nice).

The king awoke with the rising of the sun. Maegor appeared on the walls of the Red Keep, standing with Alys Harroway and Tyanna of the Tower. He was met with cheers from the population of King’s Landing. The celebration turned to dread when Maegor mounted Balerion and set the Sept of Remembrance (the location of the Warrior’s Sons) ablaze. Archers and spearman waited outside to finish any who escaped the flames.  Seven hundred men died. The annihilation of the King’s Landing Warrior’s Sons marked the downfall of the order. The Warrior’s Sons still retained chapterhouses in Oldtown, Lannisport, Gulltown, and Stoney Sept, but would never regain their former strength.

Maegor’s ability to awaken from a month-long coma and immediately lead an attack on the Warrior’s Faith indicates his recovery was magical in nature. It’s not normal for a man to lay comatose for a month and be able to spring into action within 24 hours of awakening.

Maegor’s first proclamation as king was to order the Poor Fellows to lay down their weapons under penalty of “proscription and death”. When the Poor Fellows ignored his orders, Maegor commanded all leal lords to “take the field and disperse the Faith’s ragged hordes by force”.

The High Septon responded by ordering the “true and pious children of the gods” to take up arms in defense of the Faith and put an end to “the reign of dragons and monsters and abominations”.

The High Septon is giving me Meria Martel flashbacks. The difference being the Faith is provoking the Targaryens instead of the Targaryens’ unprovoked attack on Dorne. The similarity between the High Septon and Meria Martel is that both knew the Targaryens vastly overpowered them, but still committed to their cause, ensuring thousands would die in the process.

The High Septon, the Faith in general, has overstepped. Are incestuous marriages bad? Yes. Should you send thousands of men to die to overthrow the ruling dynasty because of it? No. The Faith gained so much ground because Aenys was an indecisive idiot. Maegor’s attack on the Warrior’s Sons demonstrated that he wasn’t afraid of taking a violent, hardline stand. Maegor’s response was violent but he’s not wrong in ordering the mobs of Poor Fellows to disperse – it’s not good to have mobs of armed individuals roaming the streets.

The High Septon is delusional if he thinks he stands a chance against Maegor. Maegor is not Aenys. He is decisive and not afraid of violence. He might even prefer it.  How does the High Septon think he stands a chance against Balerion/Vhagar when all the Seven Kingdoms failed? Yes, I include Dorne in that count. Did the Targaryens conquer Dorne? No. Did Dorne spend decades recovering from the destruction unleashed on Dorne from the dragons? Yes. At best it’s a draw.

Let’s backtrack to the First Dornish War for a minute. I read a theory a few weeks ago that I loved but it was after I covered the First Dornish War. Near the end of the First Dornish War, Deria Martell arrived in King’s Landing with a letter. Aegon read the letter and ended the war the next day. No one know the letter’s contents as Aegon burned it. The theory speculates that the letter stated Rhaenys survived the crash near the Hellholt but was later killed by Aegon/Visenya during the “Dragon’s Wrath” attack on Dornish castles.

This is one of my favorite ASOIAF theories. It explains why Aegon had such an emotional reaction and promptly ended the Dornish war. Aegon realized he killed his beloved Rhaenys and no longer had the desire to continue the war. Brilliant!

Back to Maegor’s war with the Faith. The battle lines have been drawn, and the commanders have summoned the troops. The first battle was at Stonebridge in the Reach. Six lordly hosts battled nine thousand Poor Fellows led by Wat the Hewer.  The battle was one-sided as Wat’s poor, untrained followers had no chance against the charge of armored knights. The grievous slaughter caused the Mander river to run red for twenty leagues. The town/castle the battle was fought at became known as Bitterbridge. Wat was taken alive but not before slaying Lord Meadows of Grassy Vale, the commander of the king’s host. Wat was delivered to King’s Landing in chains.

Ser Horys Hill led 13,000 Poor Fellows, two hundred mounted Warrior’s Sons from Stoney Sept, the household knights and feudal levies of a dozen rebel lords from the westerlands and riverlands. Lord Rupert “the Fighting Fool”Falwell, Ser Lyonel Lorch, Ser Alyn Terrick, Lord Tristifer Wayn, Lord Jon Lychester were among these knights. The army totaled 20,0000.

King Maegor’s army was similar in size, twice as much armored horse, plus a large contingent of longbowmen. Oh, and a small advantage named Balerion.

The two forces met at the Great Fork of the Blackwater. The battle was savage. The Fighting Fool slew two (unnamed) members of the Kingsguard before being cut down by the Lord of Maidenpool. Big Jon Hogg, fighting for the king, was blinded by a sword slash but still led a charge that broke the lines of the Faithful, and put the Poor Fellows to flight. A rainstorm dampened but did not quench Balerion’s flames as Maegor descended time and again to set his foes aflame. King Maegor’s forces achieved victory by nightfall and the remaining Poor Fellows scattered away in all directions.

Up next, the Faith licks their wounds, Rhaena gives birth, and Maegor takes a third wife.

[kazz-brekker]

imo i actually think maelor being left out of house of the dragon moving forward is quite interesting because then aegon finds himself in the exact same situation as his father where he can choose between either his daughter or his brother as heir, but the precedent set by his own crowning is that he has to pass over his own child and name his brother who has tried to kill him once already his heir. there’s a lot of dramatic tension possible from the situation as well as adding to the very cyclical nature of the dance and the targaryens in general.

[pookiebearhelaena]

"You shall receive the same terms you gave my nephew Maelor."

Daeron the Daring and Prince Maelor

[zetaaa]

Brienne of Tarth

(I had to draw her in chainmail, and in pink and blue. You know why)

[kataraavatara]

Daeron Targaryen watching his men follow his lead and slaughter innocent civilians right after he slaughtered thousands of innocent civilians:

[atopvisenyashill]

What would happen if Joffrey executed both Ned and Sansa?

I mean…a small riot happens? but maybe not? things definitely get more tense between the north and the iron throne that’s for damn sure. There’s not a reason to execute Sansa - she cooperated, she tried to help Cersei, and she’s eleven, and Ned specifically confessed to keep Sansa safe. If Joffrey says “all traitors and traitor’s blood must die” and then has eleven year old Sansa’s head lopped off in front of a crowd, i do imagine this is gonna ruffle some feathers.

There’s a few flashpoints here - the actual execution, Robb’s reaction to it, and Tywin’s reaction to Robb. Take the execution first.

there’s not a lot Ned can do in this situation but if Joffrey is stupid enough to say he’s going to kill them both, Ned is not going to willingly walk to his death. He’s gonna start screaming that Joffrey is a bastard born of incest, or he’s going to insist that Sansa is innocent and he never told anyone of his treason, but either way he’s gonna get the crowd riled up and start acting up to get Joffrey to change his mind, and let us remember how recent it was that a stark father pleaded for the life of his child and a stark child pleaded for the life of their father In This Very King’s Landing. If this becomes A Whole Big(ger) Scene, that’s bad. If Joffrey kills Ned and THEN says “actually bring Sansa up here too”  - and doesn’t Sansa pass out at some point after Ned is killed?? - what does he do here? Has her woken up so he can kill her? has her executed while she’s passed out or heaving and sobbing and saying she never betrayed him and she loves him? I don’t think Joffrey has enough reason to execute her, and if Ned, Sansa, or both are yelling and pleading as they’re held down and executed, it’s gonna give a lot of people flashbacks. He can do it, of course, but I do think there will be some hesitancy, maybe some arguing, and probably some loudly expressed opinions. and meanwhile Arya is watching all of this happen with Yoren. What is KL going to even look like after this? by the time Tyrion gets there, what’s happened without Sansa there? Dontos is dead. Littlefinger has to go back to fixating on Catelyn. Joffrey has started sexually abusing random maids and ladies because he has had no Sansa outlet for his temper. They can’t hold onto staff because Joffrey put Sansa’s head on a spike and won’t take it down and it’s freaking people out. Cersei and Joffrey keep having knock out fights in public over what to do about Jaime. Joffrey is devolving much faster here, and Jaime’s life hangs in the balance. 

Then there’s Robb’s reaction to whatever the hell happens in this scenario. He has just captured Jaime, and remember Cersei was nervous about Joffrey killing Ned bc Robb might kill Jaime in reprisal. If Joffrey executes Sansa? I think without Sansa as a hostage, Robb gets more reckless on the whole. I don’t think he’ll do anything stupid - nor would the lords at Riverrun agree to anything they thought was stupid - but Rickard Karstark and Edmure Tully as well as several other lords, are pushing for Jaime to be killed. He’s not fighting to save anyone at the capital anymore; this has strictly become a rebellion. I’m sure the Lannisters would try to lie about having Arya but Robb has Jaime, he has Riverrun, he has the North, he has everything to lose, and the Lannisters have no bargaining chip. Even if you assume battles and tactics stay completely the same, would Catelyn release Jaime in this scenario, if she knows Sansa is dead, and they have zero proof Arya is alive and zero explanation for her disappearance? I think it’s more likely she’s either continuing to work as an envoy, praying she’ll get word of Arya from someone if only she keeps asking and searching, or somehow in contact with Tyrion, trying to get more information on what may have happened. It’s possible she still gets herself in trouble, but is she going to just randomly set Jaime free? No, not without proof Arya is alive. Robb could choose to use Jaime in his terms - acknowledge me as King in the North and of the Trident, get your people out of the Riverlands, agree to these borders, and I’ll give you Jaime back - or give into the anger of the people around him and send Cleos Frey back to KL with Jaime’s head and a note that says fuck you and your family. Even if Stannis and Renly are still acting dumb (likely), and Catelyn comes back with Brienne and a wild story, does Robb just send her back out as an envoy to someone else? I mean potential shadow baby assassins notwithstanding, Jaime’s presence at Riverrun (or death to lord over everyone) is useful for Robb here. 

(I keep dancing around Arya because - is Yoren unable to stop her from straight up storming the execution, if Sansa gets brought out? In the commotion of whatever scene is happening, does Arya get lost? Get caught? Get hurt? Are there more guards out looking for her because she’s the only chance Cersei has of trading for Jaime now? Can she even get out of KL? Is Yoren more desperate to hand her off quickly now that he’s seen Sansa get executed? Lots of factors here!) 

Then there’s Tywin’s reaction to Robb. Jaime may or may not have been executed but he’s certainly in a much more perilous situation. Even with Roose helping to sabotage shit (would Roose decide this is the time to enter his villain era or would he figure joffrey is too much of a risk, and bide his time a bit more??), even if Robb still sends Theon with the exact same deal, at the exact same time, and that happens the exact same way, Tywin has to take into account that Jaime is a hostage in Riverrun when he gets to king’s landing to scheme the red wedding up, OR he gets to King’s Landing ready to scheme the wedding up and devices something 100x more brutal because Robb killed Jaime. Lannister dynamics are WILDLY different here with Jaime not coming back with Brienne, too!! 

Uh anyways the point is I think most everything in Westeros is affected by this.

My opinion is that KL becomes much more stressful to live in, because Joffrey has to crack down on the population, because they didn’t appreciate him killing Sansa, and also Cersei is hysterically angry with him, Tyrion has a much harder time getting control of the city back, the Tyrells are much more nervous about negotiations with Littlefinger in Bitterbridge, and Catelyn does not set Jaime free, which puts both the Iron Throne and the North/Riverlands in a weird ass position. 

[agentrouka-blog]

Do you see the winged Knight Tourney for choosing Robert's Winged Knights as a parallel to Renly's Rainbow Guard? Happy extravagant summer events in face of danger, which doesn't last long and ends in chaos with murder of an important political figure? If your theory about Lyn Corbray being promised Sansa's inheritance by Baelish stands to be true then him murdering Harry and creating chaos in the Vale camp could be a parallel to Renly's assassination and the ensuing chaos in the Baratheon Reach camp.

Hi there!

I think the parallel is fairly superficial. The Vale is actually not being as "let them eat cake" irresponsible about this event as some frame it.

They spent the War of Five Kings in peace, they had a rich harvest, their stores are bursting after the long summer, and Littlefinger is even hoarding food from being sold abroad. They have the food, the money and the leisure to do this one little Tourney to foster harmony and cohesion among the ruling elite before going into Winter. (Let's not forget that this tourney has a larger political purpose than just fancy outfits.)

And unlike Renly, they have not actually been doing any war mongering of their own. They are unbelievably privileged compared to the rest of the kingdoms, especially the Riverlands and the North, to have been at peace literally all this time. Is it insensitive when compared to the starvation in other places in Westeros? Utterly. Is it... a reprehensible waste of resources that exposes them as out of touch with reality or contemptous of the danger of war? No. Renly had crowned himself king. The Vale is literally just chilling. Their literal only problem is the current inner conflict that this tourney is supposed to help pave over.

And it wasn't the little melee leading up to Brienne's naming to the Rainbow Guard that ended in chaos and bloodshed. That was elsewhere, on the eve of battle with Stannis.

The "face of danger" is actually one that would have become a problem with or without the Tourney: the always starving, and newly well-armed mountain clans. Perhaps Lyn Corbray, or any of the other volatile factors at play.

The actual mirror to Brienne being smuggled out of Renly's camp by Catelyn after being accused of regicide is Sansa being smuggled out of King's Landing after Joffrey's death. Both are rumored to be kingslayers now, Sansa is literally on the run because of it, while Brienne's "crime" is overlooked because Renly was not a rightful king according to the Lannisters on the throne. Brienne's next big confrontation came at a little feast in an Inn run by orphans, suddenly under attack by brigands.

So, I don't doubt that there will be some more superficial similarities when this tourney is disrupted, when people die, etc. But I think there are equally if not more important parallels to be found to the events in the North. Ramsay's wedding and the shenanigans at Winterfell leading up Theon's and Jeyne's escape and the impending confrontation between the Bolton faction and Stannis, the Manderly conspiracy, the Karstark treachery, the infiltration by secret agents (Mance), the starvation of one group v. the uneasy cohesion of the other... I think we'll find better parallels there.

[navree]

How was Aegon's relationship with his sister-wife and the rest of his brothers in the book?

We don't know a whole lot about his relationships in the book, because as always, it's meant to be a historical record, and those will rarely record feelings and emotions unless they're relevant to the historical events being described. But with what we can tell, and what I remember from Fire&Blood (it's actually been a while since I honest to goodness read it, though I do know how to look stuff up in it to get quotes I need to prove points), they actually all seem to have a pretty good relationship.

Aegon and Helaena's relationship actually seems to be pretty stable up until Blood and Cheese. We don't know a whole lot about it, just because it's not something that's remarked on and because Aegon only becomes a character the book focuses on once the Dance starts, and Blood and Cheese happens early on. We know that Aegon was unfaithful, since when Alicent sends people to find him in Helaena's rooms she quite bluntly says “He is not in my bed, you may be sure. Feel free to search beneath the blankets.” But at the same time, there is an expectation that if someone were looking for Aegon, they'd find him with Helaena and with the kids, which speaks to enough a routine that they're together on a regular basis. Additionally, it seems that, rather than the typical way royal couples sleep apart (like we saw with Alicent and Viserys, for example), Helaena and Aegon did share a bedroom. It's specifically noted that Aegon and Helaena started sleeping separately in separate rooms after Jaehaerys was killed, apparently in defiance of their regular custom of not doing that, now that Helaena was having a breakdown and they were both heavily grieving.

Aegon's relationship with Daeron is incredibly hard to parse out due to how vague it is and just how little we know about Daeron. Their relationship seems to have been fine, if a bit distant, due to Daeron's time at Oldtown and also the fact that he's the youngest and apparently wasn't really considered much of a force by either of his brothers. But Daeron is described as "the gentlest" of Alicent's sons, which might have lended to him and Aegon getting along, and notably, Daeron's participation in the sack of Bitterbridge is explicitly said to have been brutal and unmerciful on purpose as revenge for how Maelor, Aegon's youngest son, died. That does speak to enough of a closeness to Aegon, and likely Helaena as well, that he's willing to take what happened to Maelor so personally and decide to burn an entire town for it.

Aegon's relationship with Aemond also seems like it's pretty stable and probably better off than in the show. There's nothing to suggest that Aemond was bullied in the book, or that Aegon was any sort of ringleader in any behavior, and that the two seemed to have a pretty normal brotherly relationship. And again, in the book, Aegon's the only one who isn't upset with Aemond for killing Lucerys, and literally throws him a party in his honor once he comes home. He also trusts Aemond not just as a fellow dragonrider and battlefield soldier, given that they both participate in Rook's Rest, but also as a leader and as an ally, in spite of Aemond's ambition. Aegon does explicitly name Aemond as his regent, so clearly he thinks that's the best option (you don't need to be related to the king to be a regent, he could have picked Criston or Otto if he really wanted). And Aemond, for all of his "the crown looks better on me" ambition, is very careful to never try and overstep on Aegon's turf, never calls himself king but only Prince Regent and Protector of the Realm while Aegon recovers, and he does fight incredibly hard to continue securing Aegon's claim even when he goes MIA, ultimately dying specifically in a battle he sought out in order to eliminate what he perceived as the biggest threat to Aegon's rule (Daemon). That does speak to the idea that Aemond did value his brother, and did want to do right by him, and did respect him as king and leader of their faction in the war.

All in all, it's hard to figure out where a lot of these relationships are emotionally, because that's just not information we're given in the book, but the hints we have about the kind of people they all were, and the way they interacted, seems to speak to the fact that they've all had pretty good and stable relationships with each other, and were certainly able to coalesce around each other as a unit and fight for each other in times of crisis.

[horizon-verizon]

Maelor getting torn apart by the mob, so much love for the son of a beloved queen. And notice how the smallfolk did nothing to save Alicent when she was imprisoned.

*EDITED--added how Rhaenyra is not that to blame for Maleor's death and why*

Some people will counterargue that the smallfolk who killed Maelor was different from the ones at KL...

The smallfolk at Bitterbridge were a different, Alicent-less people. However, Alysanne Targaryen made sure that the right of the first night was abolished for ALL smallfolk and lords from the North to the Stormlands.

Alicent was also intelligent enough to at least try to argue or use her Consort influence on the king to make better reforms for the smallfolk of the entire realm, but she didn't.

While she did not have the bond with Viserys that Alysanne had with Jaehaerys, their marriage was never that contentious either (until we get to the Vhagar incident, and even then Viserys is the type of guy to want to put out a benevolent image to his subjects, why not take advantage of that?).

This goes further to prove how Alicent was way more concerned with what her public acts of charity could do for her image than for actual care and change for the smallfolk. Her interests in the smallfolk are mainly for her aristocratic goals, not their wellbeing.

And it shows in how Maelor was treated more as an object to be made money or get any sort of benefits from in a crowd of desperate and angry smallfolk [quote], rather than a child royal of a supposedly beloved woman and grandson of another supposedly beloved woman.

Rhaenyra did put out wanted notices with reward prizes for Maelor, which wasn't the smartest thing so much as the most convenient and first thing amidst a time of instability for her short reign. But, Maelor's disappearance itself was not her fault, she never mistreated him and there was no attempt on his life in the Keep, so there was no reason to think he was in danger there. That Maelor was even out of the castle and safety is due to Larys Strong.

Once again, how did the war start? Aside from Jaehaerys and his misogyny, who began the war?

[tronodiferro]

House Caswell of Bitterbridge

GameOfThronesFanatic-Knjiga

[imaginarianisms]

okay but when larys & aegon are preparing to take jaehaera & maelor away during the fall of king's landing to daemon & rhaenyra & the blacks, helaena tells them to STAY ALIVE & that mother will always love them bc like deep down she's just as scared & afraid as everyone else but she set aside her fear & herself all for jaehaera & maelor. & she KNOWS she's doomed & like the adults would Know that just in her tone of voice. but like. as they leave she quietly whispers to herself before covering her mouth: don't go, don't leave me.

[zoya-nazyalenskys]

oh it wasn't just about b&c he fully spoiled something from season 3...

https://x.com/RedanianIntel/status/1831394696981062006?t=onpG7hEjVKlfU8TUSSMzLg&s=19

i mean it literally is all about blood & cheese and the affect maelor's erasure has on it and the further story? is the spoiler you're talking about (F&B SPOILERS) helaena killing herself in s3? i personally don't think of it as one since for anyone that's read the book it's a pretty obvious thing that's gonna happen in s3 lol and why would anyone who didn't read the book be scrolling through martin's blog

[falllpoutboy]

i am putting off rewatching the show just for the accuracy of my fic bc i literally cant go through this again lol

[synchodai]

I understand that because GRRM deleted his post, people will wildly misconstrue and exaggerate what was written, so here it is in full so you can read the actual words firsthand:

I want to isolate the part about Maelor. Here are the things GRRM says about him:

Condal assured him that Maelor would be included but walked it back.

Said that he still loved the B&C sequence on the show despite the lack of Maelor and it not being as strong as in the books.

Rickard Thorne in Bitterbridge wouldn't happen without Maelor.

Helaena commiting suicide wouldn't have happened if she didn't receive news of Maelor being so brutally murdered in Bitterbridge.

The Butterfly effect he is talking about is Maelor's birth -> B&C Helaena chooses Maelor -> Jaehaerys is killed instead of Maelor which leads to Helaena's guilt and trauma -> Maelor is brutally murdered in Bitterbridge -> Shatters Helaena's already fragile psyche -> Helaena kills herself -> KL smallfolk riot because Helaena was a popular queen -> Rhaenyra is driven out of KL by the smallfolk.

Things GRRM DIDN'T say:

He hates how the show handled B&C.

That Rickard Thorne or even Maelor is an essential character.

That the events have to happen as written in the book.

That he hates Rhaenyra.

Ryan Condal has committed treason most foul and now must be fed to his dragon.