#book: the life of cesare borgia

[earlgodwin]

obviously, i love when tv shows resort to adapting defamatory rumors about the borgias, in fact it makes stuff spicier for good television! but i have that pet peeve and it is the false narrative with zero factual basis that i keep encountering while reading biographies about the house of borgia that the scholars really need to fuck off with them, and it's the whole irritating narrative that juan is the pope's favorite son, and cesare is consumed by jealousy towards him. which is total bullshit when cesare in fact received so much affection and appreciation from the pope as much as juan received (if not more than juan) cesare was the one who has always been consistently by their father's side and enjoyed immense popularity in rome, even among the artists who hailed him as the most handsome man in italy, and machiavelli was all over him. basically cesare was the renaissance's main prince. so there's nothing that indicates that cesare is jealous of juan over literally anything, and it's just the biographers being overly dramatic about him by giving him the "from zero to hero" trope (read maria bellonci's 'the life and times of lucrezia borgia' because she dives deep into this topic)

and no, cesare didn't hate juan. it's quite the opposite! his letters to his younger brother are full of tenderness, guidance, and fraternal love. it's another borgia famous rumor that needs to die down in biographies.

let's take sarah bradford (the author of 'lucrezia borgia: life, love, and death in renaissance Italy' and cesare borgia: his life and times) for example, and how she deliberately cut the part where cesare signs his letter to juan with "dal vostro fratello che vi ama com se stesso." translated as "from your brother who loves you as himself" because of her unnecessary haterism towards juan since she likes hyping cesare at his expense.

she also manipulated a document about the ambassador who visited cesare. here's a snippet from her book:

the actual translation from the document (praising both brothers) :

at this point, i'm convinced that if sarah bradford (and authors like her) didn't burst blood vessels for one minute by projecting her one-sided beef towards juan onto cesare with her unfair, incorrect statements of him she might start getting chills and have a stroke

that's it for now! i'm planning to make a masterpost about stuff like that because there are a lot of infamous rumors that some biographers tend to resort to, which is truly exhausting lol

[nicklloydnow]

“THE BORGIAS AND THE MAFIA

In 1455, the Holy See was occupied by Alfonso de Borja, a descendant of this eighth knight, under the name Callixtus III. Having gained the trust of King Alfonso Il of Naples, he came to power at the age of seventy-seven, while suffering from stomach cancer. His pain made him suspicious. He believed only in the loyalty of his Spanish family. Through the legacy of inheritance, his fortune fell into the hands of Rodrigo Borgia, who used it to fund his own ascension to the papal throne. Thus was born the first Mafia clan in history.

The Borgias possessed an absolute thirst for power. Europe had, by then, lost all hope in the goodness of God: the plague known as the Black Death had made miserably clear just how precarious human life can be, and with the bitterness of an orphan deprived of its supreme father, the populace consoled itself by indulging in carnal pleasures. It was in this context that Rodrigo Borgia, now Pope Alexander VI, began trafficking in a very powerful drug: papal bulls, which granted the forgiveness of sins . . . Every citizen could murder, steal, gamble, engage in prostitution or incest or unbridled gluttony, and all without fear: because in exchange for a handful of ducats, the Church offered absolution and the assurance that God would welcome the sinner into heaven.

The Borgias' passion for life, for dominance over all mankind, their disdain of any divine retribution, this absolute lack of morality, offset by their staggering appreciation of fine art, utterly captivated me. Knowing that the respectable Church of today once had a Spanish adventurer at its roots, a clever thief who was surrounded by his bought-and-sold lovers and by his children, each embodying a spiritual summit as well as an abyss - Cesare, strength and tyranny; Lucrezia, beauty and lust; Giovanni, intelligence and vanity; Gioffre, purity and stupidity - reminded me of the lotus plant, whose bright flowers spring from filthy swamps . . . And so I yielded to the temptation to write a comics script: in the form of a vast historical fresco on the creation, growth, and death of this provocative family, so similar to some of the people currently governing our planet.

(…)

In place of the Black Death, we have cancer and AIDS, along with pollution of our air, our water, and our planet. Instead of cities at war, we are witness to entire countries fighting. Christianity and Islam remain in conflict even today. The discovery of the Americas has now become interplanetary exploration. We're experiencing the artistic revolution of the Renaissance through personal computers and the Internet. The papal bulls of yore are today's commercial "benedictions" from the United States. Just as the ducat was the key to paradise during the Renaissance years, our only God is the almighty dollar: whether its value goes up or down and the gates of heaven open or close . . . Just as Machiavelli, in his book The Prince, recommended aggressive invasions to achieve Italian unity, in this day and age a powerful nation (that shall remain nameless) ruthlessly attacks any country, claiming to obstruct "Evil" but spurred on, in fact, by its thirst for oil . . . Today, the Borgias have been replaced by oil mafias, pharmaceutical industry multinationals, drug cartels, and greedy bankers.

And yet, the corruption that flourished during the Renaissance could not prevent the emergence of a Leonardo da Vinci, a Raphael, a Botticelli, a Michelangelo, a Dante, a Machiavelli even, as well as so many others who opened up new vistas to human awareness. This is what brings us great hope: the possibility that the decadence of the world today is just the pain of a chrysalis becoming a butterfly, and that from the last vast crisis into which we plummet a new humanity will arise, one that will look upon us with the same tender compassion we feel for the monkeys.

—Alejandro Jodorowsky

August 2011”

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

what is your second most favorite otp from any series?

AAAAAAHHHHH, DON'T DO THIS TO ME! There are some many pairings I love in so many books, movies, series, soap-operas, etc.

*sighs* Okay, gun to my head, there's three, in no particular order that I absolutely ADORE, have made me cry, and that I legitimately don't understand how anyone could watch these shows and not ship them (spoilers for Friends, How I Met Your Mother and The Borgias, respectively)

Monica and Chandler

Because I was just 4-years-old when Friends final season was aired, I already knew these two were going to be endgame when I watched the show - and it didn't take long for me to see the appeal, even when they were still supposed to be just friends.

They're just so affectionate with each other right from the start, cuddling on the couch, helping each other out - and Chandler just casually says stuff like "If neither of us is married when we're fourty, I'm totally willing to marry and have a kid with you just so you get the family you want" and actively tries PROVE to her he is boyfriend material and they make a game out of it??????? Genius. Perfect. Amazing.

And then it happens, they hook up and right away they're couple goals. Can't keep their hands off each other, are super clingy, all of their friends find them ridiculously adorable, Chandler matures A LOT and Monica is very patient with him because she knows he's used to hiding any emotional turmoil behind a sarcastic joke, and they can joke about and tease each other without either of them being too mean or too sensitive.

Also their conflicts never last more than one or two episodes and they never break up after first getting together, and it was a breath of fresh air coming from the same show that gave us Ross and Rachel.

Barney and Robin

They have INSANE chemistry, Robin was the only woman Barney was truly willing to change for, and Barney was the one guy Robin was with that ever truly liked her for who she was.

They. Deserved. So. Much. Better.

Seriously, I can't get over how unfair their ending was. There's a reason I tell Zutarians to give this show a watch before they complain about how their ship, that was never even canon, was "robbed of it's happy ending."

We see Barney and Robin being teased as potentially having at least a fling someday as early as season 1, they finally hook up in season 3, season 4 is all about him struggling with being in love with her, seasons 5-7 are all about them dating then breaking up while still being very much in love yet never properly reconciliating because life gets in the way, season 8 is them getting engaged and being adorably happy together, the 9th and final season is THE WEEKEND OF THEIR WEDDING and them working through every last issue they still have to make sure they will a long, happy life together as a married couple...

Then the finale goes and says "Actually, they divorced off-screen because their hotel room had no wi-fi. Sorry." WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT? It's really no wonder the network cancelled the planned spin-off right after the finale aired.

Cesare and Lucrezia

Ah yes, a Nichya list of great ships includes a pair of siblings, specifically Older Brother X Young Sister, who would have thought? This time a kind of, sort of historical one! (Seriously, The Borgias is the kind of over-dramatic, historically inaccurate period piece I love wasting my time with, and the aesthetic is incredible).

Even as someone who is very into that kind of dynamic and that knew the show was gonna go there, I was still SHOCKED at how unsubtle is right from the start - especially once I found out the writer didn't want to play up the sexual tension originally.

Somehow, the first time we see these two on screen, Lucrezia is spying on her brother as he has sex and once he notices he playfully chases her around the garden, berating her for spying on him AGAIN, and then when they're on the ground together he just casually admits to loving her more than he loves God????????????????????????????? NORMAL SIBLING BEHAVIOR, EVERYBODY! NOTHING WEIRD GOING ON HERE!

I adore how protective (and possessive) Cesare is of her, ready to commit murder at the very thought of a man mistreating her - yet he is still willing to step aside when he thinks she found a good man, because nothing matters to him more than Lucrezia's happiness, not even his own. It just so happens that he always has to step in again because nobody loves her quite to insane degree he does, and thus she only feels truly safe, happy and loved with him, hence her saying "Only a Borgia can truly love a Borgia."

And they, legitimately, are insepareble. They're always close to each other, holding hands, hugging, cuddling, KISSING - all long before they're ready to admit, even to themselves that they're in love.

They are so clueless about what level of physical affection is normal between relatives that they made out in front of her husband and were surprised he found out about their incestuous affair.

And more importantly, thanks to the show being cancelled after season 3 instead of getting the planned fourth season, they never broke up! The show literally ends with them in each other's arms, accepting their love. I couldn't have asked for literally anything else.

[darklinaforever]

Yes of course... You clearly need to get the shit out of your eyes cleaned. If while Daemon is having sex with Rhaenyra you see him making a quick deal even though it's explicitly quite slow and gentle (makes sense since she gave birth not long ago) I don't know what to say other than that shit in your eyes must be powerful once again. And like I said before... As if he hadn't squeezed her thigh in his hands ? As if he didn't caress her face again before resting his forehead on hers ? Oh and if you watch from 1 minute and 14 seconds to 1 minute and 17 seconds Daemon actually puts his arm under Rhaenyra to hug her too. So he's also hugging her as much as she's hugging him. Then as if the sex itself hadn't been slow and tender ? Saying that he's done with sex with her as soon as possible is the biggest bad joke I've seen. 😂

So... Rhaenyra was 19 years old. An adult then. But the information is clearly having trouble getting to the brain... Laena was 16 years old, marriageable for the time of Westeros. You don't understand what a feudal / historical context entails do you ? The fact that a man of Daemon's age would marry a young woman of 16 years old is not shocking in context. It's inspired by fucking feudal times. If you want to accuse Daemon of being a predator for marrying a 16 year old woman, complain about how society worked at the time. No Daemon. Otherwise you can also complain about almost all the men of the time! And it had nothing to do with predation! Idiot... But given your level of understanding I imagine that for you all men of that time were predators... Also Laena was 22 years old in the book. Not 16 years old. In the series and book Mysaria is a fully adult woman. Rhaenyra may be younger in the book than in the series when Daemon asks for her hand, but depending on the era, Rhaenyra was also of marriageable age. Whether it's the series or the book, the women in Daemon's life therefore have varying and different ages, they are not all located in the same youth age group that you promote to try to make him pass for a predator attracted specifically to young girls. You really look ridiculous at this point. Honestly, thanks for proving that you know nothing about the book Fire and Blood and basic feudal society. Oh and at the risk of annoying you... Nettles has never been proven. And never will be in Fire and Blood.

I've seen both versions of The Borgia series, and Cesare & Lucrezia don't have any toxicity ? Lol. They do, just in a different way than Daemyra from the series. Also I repeat Daemyra is not grooming, book and series. On the other hand, the only thing I can say with certainty about Cesare and Lucrezia's love is that compared to all the crap that goes on in this series and their family, they are definitely pure in comparison. And what do you do with Hades and Persephone ? Literally one of the healthiest relationships in Greek mythology ? 😭😂

For the thousandth time, I obviously know the definition of grooming and historical context and you don't. Dameyra is not a grooming book and series.

Oh and Daemon didn't kill Rhea Royce in the book.

And since we're staying on the series... it's hard to understand that Rhaenyra is 19 years old in this fucking episode 4 and 5 ? An adult and not a child !

You must really have a shitty life to come and repeat the same shit over and over again anonymously as if it's going to change anything in reality.

You don't need a doctor ?

You almost never talk about Criston Cole and the other men. Stop pretending to care about Rhaenyra. You're literally the type of person who says you can't wait to watch her get abused over and over again. Daemyra is not grooming, I literally for the thousandth time wrote a huge article about this but YOU ARE DEAF ! You don't understand the definition of the word and what a historical context implies. You are a bunch of idiot butchers. I never denied the toxicity of Daemyra in the series, non-existent in the book because again HISTORICAL CONTEXT ! Once again, go read @horizon-verizon it might educate you. And I NEVER claimed Daemon was Prince Charming. What do you not understand about a gray and complex character ?! Unless for you a gray and complex character is in fact incapable of loving a woman and having a healthy relationship with her ?!

Oh, and I have already said I don't know how many times that I recognized that Daemyra had toxic aspects in the series version, except that, so what ? This will prevent me from shipping the Daemyra version of the series maybe ?! No. Love is not necessarily something pure, we have to stop the bullshit, especially in fiction. On the other hand, I maintain that there is nothing toxic in the book version. There is no such thing as a brothel. It's an invention of Mushroom. There is no voluntary abandonment of Daemon for 10 years. In reality he was banished under penalty of death. There is no Daemon leaving Rhaenyra to deal with childbirth alone. He was by his side in the books. There is no strangulation either. And once again, the age difference and or the incest aspect are not real arguments as to a possible toxicity in their relationship, due to placing the relationship in its fictional and historical context from which GRRM draws inspiration, namely the feudal era, where age differences and incest were included in the customs of the time for specific reasons. Especially if we are in a family where incest has no impact due to their MAGIC BLOOD ! These elements are not evidence of toxicity. Open a history book. An age difference and incestuous marriage in a historical context does not necessarily result in toxic abusive relationships. This is bullshit.

So basically, I'm right when I say that you don't read my responses and just repeat the same shit over and over again ! “Acknowledge that Daemyra is toxic” I've said I don't know how many times that they were toxic in the show's version. Honestly, go get treatment for stalking my account like a crazy person. Are you interested in me at this point ? Sorry, you're not my type.

See when I say they repeat the same shit over and over again without wanting to hear it ?! Real parrots. Clearly I must really be a bridge to have so many trolls coming to see me. The antis have small brains. What do you think Daemon ?

Yeah, that's what I thought...

@aleksanderscult

[transdimensional-void]

thanks for tagging me @esther-dot

9 TV shows, 9 characters (let’s hope anime counts lol)

in no particular order:

1. natsume takashi - natsume’s book of friends

2. cesare borgia - the borgias

3. sansa stark - game of thrones

4. saiki kusuo - the disastrous life of saiki k.

5. merlin - the adventures of merlin

6. jim - our flag means death

7. guillermo de la cruz - what we do in the shadows

8. katara - avatar the last airbender

9. willow - buffy the vampire slayer

(what does this list reveal about me? who knows)

tagging @ahappydnp @thegraceofebonee @dreamdannie @l0zito

[moviemunchies]

I read the novel back in 2017, and I remember liking it! When I told my dad that I read this book by the same guy who wrote the novel that was adapted into the movie Captain from Castile, he looked to see if we could find it. And we did! And we saw it.

Hey, you know Orson Welles is in this movie?

Italian aristocrat Andrea Orsini is one of the courtiers in the employ of Cesare Borgia, helping him create alliances in his quest to conquer Italy. And, y’know, kill people; but mostly build alliances! Except Orsini has a secret–he’s not actually an aristocrat, or even an Orsini. Pretending to be one and working for Borgia has allowed him to build up his own station, and send money to his mother, though, so he goes on with it. Now Borgia has sent him to the city of Cita del Monte to build trust with its ruler, Lord Varano. Except Andrea, out from under Cesare Borgia’s thumb, realizes that he Varano is a truly honorable lord, loved by his people. Even more frustratingly, Andrea’s falling in love with Varano’s wife, Camilla.

I don’t remember all the details of the book, though I DO remember the basic Plot. I also remember a fun side plot involving Saint Lucy Brocadelli being guarded by Mario Belli. Sadly, this storyline was cut from the movie; which makes sense as it’s not immediately relevant to the Plot. Still! I liked it a lot so I’m a bit bummed.

I should probably go into this a bit more. Because so many of the supplementary side stories have been cut, the movie feels really, really straightforward. It’s not quite a speedrun of the Plot, but it feels like it at times. There are things that I think could have spent a lot more time developing. Andrea and Varano’s relationship needs more time to develop. So does Andrea and Camilla’s, but that’s typical movie romance stuff. Part of what makes Andrea decide to stop working for Borgia is because of his respect for Varano, this great leader, this honorable man, this noble figure… and we don’t actually see the two of them interact all that much. This is one of the linchpins of the story.

In comparison, Andrea and Camilla’s relationship isn’t that underdeveloped. The audience can pick up that there’s attraction between them right away. And the whole point is that they don’t act on that attraction because she’s married. There are some problems with that delivery, but overall it works better than what’s going on with Varano and Andrea.

Also, unlike movies today, it’s nice to see that these two don’t instantly jump into bed together because of immediate attraction. Her being married is actually stopping them from getting together.

If there’s another character in this movie who I think needs some work, though I think he’s still my favorite and a highlight of the movie, it's Belli. He’s the guy first sent to assassinate Andrea, but then Andrea flips him and hires him on as a loyal servant in return for his life. He’s an entertaining, straightforward guy who doesn’t understand why Andrea’s conflicted about something as straightforward as killing someone else on the boss’s orders. He grows as a person, though.

Belli’s fun. I like him.

Oh, and there’s sword fights. Those are cool. Though I should let you know: the battles and sword duels don’t happen until fairly late in the movie.

And Cesare Borgia’s played by Orson Welles?! Orson Effing Welles?!? He was thinner in those days. He’s clearly having a lot of fun being a villain. He’s not too complex, he’s just a guy who wants to conquer stuff, though he’s willing to try diplomacy before going all-out in war. He’s a perfect Renaissance villain, and the kind of antagonist who is perfect for the story, especially as we know that the hero can’t defeat him–sure, the story may bend history, but it’s not going to go so far as killing off Cesare Borgia.

I think it’s a fairly good swashbuckling action movie. The movie poster declares it the ‘King of Romantic Epics!’, which, uh… it’s not. But it is a really cool older movie, a nice Renaissance epic, and I think it’s worth checking out. I’m sad about how much of the book was cut out; then again, that’s to be expected from any film adaptation, so I can’t say it’s too unexpected.

[glvlvukcan]

The Prince stands as a pivotal yet controversial masterpiece in Western literature. Its true nature sparks endless debate: is it a biting satire or, as Bertrand Russell suggests, “a handbook for gangsters”? The true intent of Machiavelli remains shrouded in mystery. However, its enduring legacy is clear: a profound exploration of the lengths to which some will go to acquire and retain power.

Born on May 3, 1469, in Florence, Italy, Niccolò Machiavelli emerged during a period marked by the division of Italy into four competing city-states, leaving the region vulnerable to Europe’s more dominant powers.

Portrait of Niccolò Machiavelli by Santi di Tito, c. 1550–1600

Witnessing the rapid ascent and downfall of leaders, Machiavelli pinpointed traits he deemed crucial for acquiring and sustaining power. His groundbreaking book diverged from idealized views of leadership, instead detailing the actual strategies of the powerful. The ends, he asserted, always justify the means, no matter how harsh, deceitful, or unethical.

Prior to Machiavelli, political philosophers generally viewed good leadership as embodying humility, morality, and honesty. Machiavelli challenged this, bluntly stating, “It is better to be feared than loved, if you cannot have both.” His depiction of a successful ruler was not the noble prince of fairy tales, but a figure who could be brutal, manipulative, and immoral when needed.

According to Machiavelli, leaders must hide their true intentions, strive for consistency, and, at times, act “against mercy, against faith, against humanity, against frankness, against religion,” all in the pursuit of preserving the state. He also stressed the importance of appearing moral, even when not being so, to maintain public image. In his words, “A prince must always seem to be very moral, even if he is not.”❝ 

Everyone sees what you appear to be, few experience what you really are. Niccolò Machiavelli

Arguing for the effectiveness of cruelty over kindness in certain situations, he explained, “Making an example of one or two offenders is kinder than being too compassionate, and allowing disorders to develop into murder and chaos which affects the whole community.” Furthermore, Machiavelli cautioned that keeping one’s word could be dangerous, as “experience shows that those who do not keep their word get the better of those who do.”

On the topic of destiny, Machiavelli urged leaders not to rely on luck but to actively shape their fortunes through charisma, cunning, and strength. He saw life as governed by two key elements: fortune and virtù, with virtù representing bravery, power, and the exertion of will. In his perspective, an effective leader maximizes virtù and minimizes dependence on fortune, embodying the principle that “fortune favors the brave.”❝ 

Never attempt to win by force what can be won by deception. Niccolò Machiavelli, The Prince

Cesare Borgia, a ruthless and shrewd prince of the Papal States, was a key inspiration for Machiavelli’s The Prince. Machiavelli personally observed Borgia during a visit to discuss Florentine relations, where Borgia cunningly assassinated his enemies after luring them with gifts and false promises of friendship. Machiavelli saw Borgia’s decisive leadership as a model for what Florence needed to rejuvenate its morale, unify its people, and restore its historic prominence.

Front cover of the 1550 edition of The Prince

The Prince was eventually published in 1532, five years after Machiavelli’s death, sparking a mix of outrage and admiration over the following centuries. This positioned Machiavelli as a revolutionary, albeit controversial, political thinker. By 1559, the Catholic Church had listed all his works on its Index of Prohibited Books.

Yet, some saw the book as a candid reflection of actual statecraft. 18th-century philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau believed Machiavelli was exposing, rather than celebrating, the misuse of power, calling him “an honest man and a good citizen.”

Machiavelli’s influence was far-reaching. He was blamed for inspiring Henry VIII’s defiance against the Pope and his seizure of religious authority. William Shakespeare referred to him as “the murderous Machiavel” in Henry VI, with many Shakespearean characters displaying Machiavellian traits. In the 20th century, Machiavelli’s ideas were linked to dictators like Adolf Hitler, who kept a copy of The Prince by his bedside, and Joseph Stalin, who was known to have read and annotated his own copy.

Tomorrow, get ready to be swept away by the invisible force that shapes our world, whispers through the trees, and dances with the leaves. Stay curious!

Support Curious Peoples

If you’re a fan of Curious Peoples, your support on Patreon can can make a big difference. Help us continue to feed your curiosity with more amazing episodes.Support us on Patreon

Editors’ finds

Rewind: Printing Press: The Information Revolution

Delve: The Prince by Niccolò Machiavelli

Read: 8 Most Brutal Dictators in History

Explore: Crime Rate by Country 2023

Words of wisdom

“The first method for estimating the intelligence of a ruler is to look at the men he has around him.” —Niccolò Machiavelli

“Never was anything great achieved without danger.” —Niccolo Machiavelli

“Men are driven by two principal impulses, either by love or by fear.” —Niccolò Machiavelli

“Everyone who wants to know what will happen ought to examine what has happened: everything in this world in any epoch has their replicas in antiquity.” —Niccolò Machiavelli

How did you like the episode?

 Love it  |   It's OK  |   Meh, do better

Spread the Curiosity

Update your email preferences or unsubscribe here

© 2023 Curious Peoples, 2023

Calcada da Estrela 215 Lisbon, Lisbon 1200-663, PortugalPowered by beehiiv

Remind you of someone? Clue, he has small hands and orange skin

[finitefall]

Honestly I think people who criticize Jonerys for being incest are stupid because they didn’t know they were related when they met. That’s what creates the gut “ick” feeling most people have at the prospect of mating with relatives. We can’t read someone’s DNA to tell who’s a relative. Our brains identify relatives based on experience. Meanwhile they think Jon//sa is better because they’re less related when Jon and Sansa actually grew up together and would recognize each other as relatives. Personally I’m not a fan of Daemyra (not a fan of Rhae//nicent either though) but the argument kind of applies. Daemon rarely sees Rhaenyra as she grows up. Plus I think the “ick” instinct must just be broken in Targaryens since we have siblings who were raised together feeling attraction to each other, which rarely happens in real life. I don’t like Daemyra because of the age factor but that’s just my personal taste and I’m not going to go slamming it and sending anon hate 🥴

Thank you for this message, nonnie! It's very much appreciated after the last one.

I don't think it was went by a Jonsa shipper, but yes there's definitely a huge hypocrisy with Jonsa shippers who say Jonerys is disgusting because Dany is Jon's aunt by blood. If you're disgusted even by fictional incest, Jonerys should be the one you find the least disgusting since they didn't grew up together. Their real issue isn't incest though, they just hate Daenerys. You just have to see so many of them putting the "she's his aunt" argument against this ship at the same level as "she's barren" (which is a disgusting argument, thrown like an insult against a woman). Jonsa shippers (most of them) are really just in love with fanon Sansa and use book quotes from Jon's POV about Arya, pretending they're about Sansa.

I don't think shared blood will be an issue for book!Jon, by the way. And there's heavy Jonerys foreshadowing in the books, no matter if people like it or not. It's happening, get used to it.

Obviously, Rhaenyra and Daemon aren't disgusted since Targaryens had been marrying brother to sister for centuries. They don't come from the same culture and the law was changed for them (since it was against The Faith of the Seven). It's interesting though to note that it was only brother and sister, father and daughter, mother and son that are considered incest in Westeros. First cousins isn't considered as incest, uncle and niece or aunt and nephew can also happen by followers of the Old Gods (I do think that while it's not written, The Faith of the Seven protest against it? I'll need to check my ASOIAF History again!)

I'm not sure how old Rhaenyra and Daemon are supposed to be in HOTD, but they married when she was 23 and him 39. I think the age difference is supposed to be the same in the show? The age gap doesn't bother me, but it can bother many people. You could even not like Daemyra because them being uncle and niece does bother you even in fiction - as long as you don't go around hating on those who ship it and that's what matters.

I can totally understand someone who doesn't like an incestuous ship, what they need to understand is that me and plenty of other fans actually separate incest in fiction from incest in real life. Yes, I loved Cesare and Lucrezia in The Borgias even though they're brother and sister and I'm disgusted about this happening in reality at the same time. It's entirely possible, it's even the case of most people who love an incestuous ship. It's incredible to have to have to explain this.

[quotesoutofseason]

Machiavelli was by no means the only thinker of the Renaissance who wrestled with this problem, for the question itself was familiar to all the thinkers of his age. It pervaded the whole cultural life of the Renaissance. Artists, scientists, and philosophers were eagerly concerned to find an answer to it. In the literature and poetry of the Renaissance the theme occurs over and over again; in the fine arts we find innumerable symbols of Fortune. On the reverse of a Portrait Medal of Cesare Borgia there was such a symbol. But Machiavelli's treatment of the problem proves once again his great originality. According to his predominant interest he approaches the question from the angle of public instead of private life. Fortune becomes an element in his philosophy of history. It is the power of Fortune that brings to the fore now one nation, then another nation and gives it the dominion of the world. At all times, says Machiavelli in tlle Preface to the second book of his Discourses, the world has always been pretty much the same. There has at all times been nearly the same portion of good and evil ill in it; but this good and evil have sometimes changed their stations, and passed from one empire to another. Virtue which once seemed to have fixed itself in Assyria afterward removed its seat to Media, from thence into Persia, and at last came and settled amongst the Romans. Nothing under the sun is stable and ever will be. Evil succeeds good, good succeeds evil, and the one is always the cause of the other. Yet that does not mean that man has to give up his struggle. Quietism would be the deathblow of an active life — the only life worthy of man.

[earlgodwin]

I know you focus more on Lucrezia and Juan (valid), but I was curious if you knew any books that went in-depth about Giulia? If not Giulia, any about the family in general, I just love the historical sources you pull from to parallel the show

hi!! i adore giulia so much! she's a truly captivating and intelligent figure to me as she wielded significant influence within her family based on the strength of her personality. remarkably at some point she defied the pope not just once, but twice, risking herself and her loved ones in the process. however, her close bond with lucrezia remains one of my most cherished aspects of the borgia history 🙏

“Admitedly, [Giulia] was quite different from Vanozza and in a manner that was not simply due to the great difference in their ages. Where Vanozza had been dedicated both to her own financial interest and her lover’s well-being, Giulia was lighthearted and featherbrained, never looking beyond the delights of today. and where Vanozza sought to tie her lover by submission and acquiescence, Giulia displayed an independence of spirit which kept Borgia’s interest at fever pitch even while such spirit could enrage him.”

— E.R Chamberlain - The Fall of the House of Borgia

“Vasari tells us, in his Vita degli Artefici, that over the door of one of the rooms in the Borgia Tower, the artist painted a picture of the Virgin Mary in the likeness of Giulia Farnese with Alexander kneeling to her in adoration, arrayed in full pontificals. Such a thing would have been horrible, revolting, sacrilegious.”

— Rafael Sabatini, The Life of Cesare Borgia

"The fifteen-year-old Giulia was already famous for her beauty. Giulia Bella, the Romans would call her a few years later, was not only beautiful, but intelligent, “endowed with gentleness and humanity.” Blond was the preferred hair color in those days, and legend has it that Giulia was blond. But a letter written to Cesare describes her as fusco (“dark complected”) with black eyes, a round face, and quidem ardor (“a certain vivacity”)."

— Emma lucas, Lucrezia Borgia

here are some fiction/biographies where giulia has highlighted roles (some of these books delve into giulia's relationship with rodrigo and the influence ower she wielded within the family, her political maneuvering and unwavering loyalty to her loved ones, capturing her fierce intelligence and her relationship with lucrezia) :

Lucretia Borgia According to Original Documents and Correspondence of Her Day (Ferdinand Gregorovius)

The Life and times of Lucrezia Borgia, Maria Bellonci

Cesare Borgia: La sua vita, La sua famiglia, I suoi tempi, Gustavo Sacerdote.

Lucrezia Borgia, Emma Lucas

Cesare Borgia, Rafael Sabatini

The Fall of the House of Borgia, E.R Chamberlain

Blood & Beauty, Sarah Dunant

The Borgias: Power & Fortune, Paul Strathern

[web-novel-polls]

Other Tournaments Masterpost

[Last Updated: March 11th, 2024] 

Upcoming

N/A

Ongoing

Alloaro Swag Tournament

URL: alloaroswagtournament

Tag to Check: #tumblr tournament or #poll 

My Tag: #alloaro swag tournament 

WN Contestants - Bracket 2: Li Lianhua/Li Xiangyi, Shu Yanyan, Pei Ming (Eliminated) 

Best Webtoon Female Leads

(I’m listing the Webtoons/Manhwa adapted from a novel since it’s a webtoon-themed tournament with a lot of novel-adapted manhwa)

URL: webtoon-brackets (Multiple Tournaments)

Tags to Check: #polls

My Tag: #best webtoon female lead

WN Contestants: Penelope Eckhart from Villains are Destined to Die, Shuri from A Stepmother’s Marchen

Eliminated WN Contestants: Athanasia de Alger form Who Made Me a Princess, Deborah Seymour from The Perks of Being a Villainess, Eris Miserian from Kill the Villainess, Rosentine Arzen from Secret Lady, Raeliana Macmillan from The Reason Why Raeliana Ended Up at the Duke’s Mansion, Roxana Agreche from The Way to Protect the Female Lead’s Older Brother, Valeta from I Failed to Oust the Villain, Rudbeckia de Borgia from How to Win My Husband Over, Maxi from Under the Oak Tree, Keira from Actually I was the Real One, Abigail from I’m Only a Stepmother but My Daughter is Just So Cute, Leticia Halstead from My Husband Hides His Beauty, Judith from The Villainess Flips the Script, Hillis Inoaden from Untouchable Lady, Reilynn Candimon/Raylene Shan Kandmion from Today the Villainess Has Fun Again, Aria Roscent from The Villainess Reverses the Hourglass, Kayena Hill from The Villainess is a Marionette, Dillon from For Better or For Worse…. (Stopping here to save Mod’s brain) 

Gay Books Tournament

URL: gaybookstournament

Tag to Check: #gay book poll

My Tag: #gay book poll

WN Contestants: The Scum Villain’s Self-Saving System

Eliminated WN Contestants: Heaven Official’s Blessing, Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation

Gay Dragon Tournament

URL: gaydragontournament

Tournament Tag: #gaydragontournament or #polls

My Tag: #gay dragon tournament 

WN Contestants: Xue Xian from Copper Coins (Round 1, Part 3)

Eliminated WN Contestants: Shi An from After the Abyss Dragon Woke Up

His Pussy Popping Tournament 

URL: myfaveisfuckable (Multiple Tournaments)

OP’s Tag: #poll or #tournament

My Tag: #his pussy popping tournament

WN Contestants: Wei Wuxian, Shen Zechuan, Wen Kexing, Zhou Zishu

Eliminated WN Contestants: Qi Rong, Hua Cheng

Misrepresented Morally Grey

URL: misrepresentedmorallygrey

Tournament Tag: #misrepresented morally grey

My Tag: #misrepresented morally grey

WN Contestants: Wei Wuxian (Bracket A), Jiang Cheng (Bracket B), Luo Binghe (Bracket B), Shen Jiu (Bracket C)

MLM Ship Bracket

URL: mlmshipbracket

Tournament Tag: #mlm ship bracket tournament 2024

My Tag: #mlm ship bracket

WN Contestants: Weilan (Guardian), Wenzhou (WOH/TYK)

Eliminated WN Contestants: Chuguo (Guardian)

Most Breedable Twink Tournament

URL: mostbreedabletwinktournament

My Tag: #most breedable twink tournament

Round 2: Shen Qingqiu (Side A) & Wei Wuxian (Side B)

Most Fucked Up Webtoon Couple

(I’m listing the Webtoons/Manhwa adapted from a novel since it’s a webtoon-themed tournament with a lot of novel-adapted manhwa)

URL: webtoon-brackets (Multiple Tournaments)

Tag to Check: #polls

My Tag: #most fucked up webtoon ship

WN Contestants - Ilyana and Magnus from The Beast Tamed by the Villainess 

Eliminated WN Contestants: Ariadne and Cesare from I’m the Queen in This Life, Valeta and Reinhart from Failed to Abandon the Villain, Chloe and Damien from Betrayal of Dignity, Layla and Matthias from Cry, or Better Yet, Beg; Charlize and Dylan from I Tamed a Tyrant and Ran Away, Karloi and Rue from Wished You Were Dead, Ophelia and Alec from Why Ophelia Couldn’t Leave, Chloe and Kairos from I Shall Kill that Sweet Devil, Erna Hardy and Björn Denyster from The Problematic Prince, Cierra/Sierra and Claude from Cierra/Sierra, Eilec and Rose from The Empress of Ashes, Syriana and Azester from Villains Behind the Curtains, Odette von Dyssen and Bastian Klausitz from Bastian, Carcel Escalante and Inés Valeztena from The Broken Ring: This Marriage Will Fail Anyway, Selena Evan and Ignus from I Was Discovered by the Villain

Old Hag Tournament 2024

URL: oldhagtournament

Tournament Tag: #old hag tournament 2024

My Tag: #old hag tournament 2024

WN Contestants: Granny Wen from MDZS 

Queer Book Character Tournament 2.0

URL: queer-book-character-tournament

OP’s Tag: #queer book character tournament 2.0

My Tag: #queer book character tournament

WN Contestants: Hua Cheng (TGCF), Shen Qingqiu (SVSSS), Lan Wangji (MDZS), Wei Wuxian (MDZS), Yin Hanjiang (DVAWTK) 

Eliminated WN Contestants: Wenren È (DVAWTK), Shen Qiao (Thousand Autumns), Xie Lian (TGCF), Luo Binghe (SVSSS), Yan Wushi (Thousand Autumns)

Queer Book Tournament 

URL: unrequitedbrainsidianangst

Tournament Tag: #queer books

My Tag: #queer book tournament 

WN Contestants: The Husky and His White Cat Shizun / 2ha

Eliminated WN Contestants: Case File Compendium / BAB, Heaven Official’s Blessing, Female General and Eldest Princess, The Scum Villain’s Self-Saving System, The Imperial Uncle, Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation, JWQS, Guardian

Serial Adopters Tournament

URL: serialadoptersbracket

Tournament Tag: #tumblr polls or #tournament poll

My Tag: #serial adopters bracket

WN Contestants - Round 2 (begins Feb. 26th): Cale Henituse (Day 3), Xie Lian (Day 13), Han Muchun (Day 25), Kim Dokja (Day 27), Wen Kexing & Zhou Zishu (Day 29) 

They Should Have Been At The Club Tournament

URL: should-have-been-at-the-club 

OP's Tag: #should have been at the club tournament 

My Tag: #should have been at the club tournament

WN Contestants: Luo Binghe (SVSSS)

Tortured Artist Tourney

URL: tortured-artist-tourney

OP’s Tag: #tat2023 

My Tag: #tortured artist tournament

WN Contestants: Han Sooyoung (ORV), Wei Wuxian (MDZS)

Eliminated WN Contestants: Yoo Jaeha (Tomb Raider King) 

Ultimate Webtoon FL

(I’m listing the Webtoons/Manhwa adapted from a novel since it’s a webtoon-themed tournament with a lot of novel-adapted manhwa)

URL: webtoon-brackets (Multiple Tournaments)

OP’s Tag: #polls

My Tag: #ultimate webtoon fl

WN Contestants:

Abigail Freidkin (I’m Just a Stepmother, but My Daughter is Just So Cute) Aisha (Into the Light Once Again) Ariadne (I’m the Queen in This Life) Aria Roscent (The Villainess Turns the Hourglass) Asha Pervaz (The Age of Arrogance)  Astina (The Lady and the Beast) Athanasia de Alger Obelia (WMMAP) Bianca de Blanchefort (Marriage of Convenience) Charlize Ronan (I Tamed a Tyrant and Ran Away) Chloe Verdier (Betrayal of Dignity) Daisy (Tricked Into Becoming the Heroine’s Stepmother) Deborah Seymour (The Perks of Being a Villainess) Dillon (For Better or For Worse) Edith (I Thought It Was a Common Possession) Elise (Doctor Elise)  Eris Miserian (Kill the Villainess) Estelle (From a Knight to a Lady) Fiona Green (Author of My Own Destiny/I Become the Wife of the Male Lead) He Yan (Who is the Prey) Ilyana Glayne (The Beast Tamed by the Villainess) Judith (The Villainess Flips the Script),  Karen Heyer/Carynne Hare (Resetting Lady) Kayena Hill (The Villainess is a Marionette) Keira Parvis (Actually, I Was the Real One) Lariette (I Thought My Time Was Up!) Layla Llewelyn (Cry, or Better Yet, Beg) Lyrica (Mother’s Contract Marriage) Maxi (Under the Oak Tree) Melissa Foddebrat (Beware the Villainess) Navier (Remarried Empress) Penelope Eckhart (VADD)   Pereshati Lapileon (My In-Laws are Obsessed With Me)  Raeliana Macmillan (Why Raeliana Ended Up at the Duke’s Mansion) Reinhardt (I Tamed My Ex-Husband’s Mad Dog) Rosalite (Touch My Brother and You Die) Roselyn (Shadowless Night) Rosentine Arzen (Secret Lady) Roxana Agreche (The Way to Protect the Female Lead’s Older Brother)  Ruby de Borgia (How to Get My Husband On My Side) Selena Evan (Caught by the Villain) Seria Stern (The Tragedy of the Villainess) Shuri (A Stepmother’s Marchen) Tia Lombardi (I Shall Master This Family) Valeta (I Failed to Oust the Villain) 

WN Eliminated

Autistic Headcanon Tournament

URL: autistic-hc-bracket

Tag to Check: #autism

My Tag: #autistic hc bracket

Eliminated WN Contestants: Lan Wangji, Chu Wanning

BPD Blorbo Bracket

URL: bpd-blorbo-bracket

Tag to Check: #polls

My Tag: #bpd blorbo bracket 

Eliminated WN Contestants: Luo Binghe

God’s Specialest Little Guy

URL: godsspecialestlittleguyskirmish

OP’s Tag: #tournament poll

My Tag: #god’s specialest little guy

Eliminated WN Contestants: Mobei-jun (SVSSS), Yoo Joonghyuk (ORV), Kim Dokja (ORV), Xie Lian (TGCF), Hua Cheng (TGCF)

Most Fucked Up Ship Tournament

URL: fucked-up-ship-tournament

Tournament Tag: #most fucked up ship tournament

My Tag: #most fucked up ship tournament 

Eliminated WN Contestants: Beefleaf from TGCF, Bingqiu from SVSSS, He Yan and Fu Shenxing from Who Is the Prey, Claire and Balt from The East Wind of the Atlas, Eucenielle and Tes from I Hold the Tyrant’s Heart, Estelle and Khalid from From a Knight to a Lady 

Queer Media Tourney

URL: queer-media-tourney

Tournament Tag: #queer media tourney

My Tag: #queer media tourney

Eliminated WN Contestants: The Untamed

Sleepyhead Tournament

URL: sleepyhead-poll 

Tournament Tag: #sleepyhead poll

My Tag: #sleepyhead poll

Eliminated WN Contestants: Jing Beiyuan (Round 3C)

Sword Gays Showdown 

URL: badass-queer-couples-battle (Multiple Tournaments)

Tournament Tag: #sword gays showdown

My Tag: #sword gays showdown 

Eliminated WN Contestants: Wei Wuxian (Bracket 1), Zhou Zishu (Bracket 1) Yin Hanjiang (Bracket 1), Di Feisheng (Bracket 1), Hua Cheng (Bracket 2), Luo Binghe (Bracket 2), Liu Qingge (Bracket 3), Xie Lian (Bracket 3), Lan Wangji (Bracket 3) 

Victims of Yaoi

URL: victimsofyaoipoll

Tag: #poll

My Tag: #victims of yaoi tournament

Eliminated WN Contestants: Han Sooyoung

Completed

MXTX Swords Tournament

URL: mxtx-swords-tournament

Tournament Tag: #mxtx swords tournament

My Tag: #mxtx swords tournament 

Ultimate Shizunfucker Tournament

URL: ultimate-shizunfucker-tournament

My Tag: #ultimate shizunfucker tournament

[aether-light777]

"Aether Proof" puts all physicist out of a job!!!

"Aether-Light Video Proves God is Light."

"JUDAISM and ISLAM-Gets It Right."

Jews and Muslims  believe Jesus did not fulfill messianic prophecies that establish the criteria for the coming of the messiah.

Cesare Borgia is the Jesus Christ hanging on the wall of every Christian all over the world.

Cesare Borgia was an Italian cardinal and condottiero, an illegitimate son of Pope Alexander VI and member of the Spanish-Aragonese House of Borgia.

All my life for 67 years I was told that Jesus Christ is God's Son.

Yes, I am at the present so very upset!!!

Yahweh "YHWH" Or Allah is the only One True God.

I have always believeed in the One True God, and I have always known that he is LIGHT.

1 John  1:5  "God is Light, and in him is no darkness at all."

"All Living and Non-Living things are made of LIGHT."

In 2017 I wrote the bestseller book AETHER-LIGHT  "The Fact Of Everything."

This book will answer the 7 questions that no physicist or scientist has been able to answer.

1. Where did we come from?

2. What is Gravity?

3. What is Matter?

4. What is Dark Matter?

5. What is Dark Energy?

6. What is Aether?

7. What is Light?

By: Aether-Light.com

[ducavalentinos]

“It is a noteworthy matter that in all that concerns the history of the House of Borgia, and more particularly those incidents in it that are wrapped in mystery, circumstantial elucidation has a habit of proceeding from the same quarters. You will remember, for instance, that the Venetian Paolo Capello (though not in Rome at the time) was one of those who was best informed in the matter of the murder of the Duke of Gandia. Another who on the subject of the murder of Gandia “had not doubts” ―as he himself expressed it― was Pietro Martire d’Anghiera, in Spain at the time, whence he wrote to inform Italy of the true circumstances of a case that had happened in Italy. It is again Pietro Martire d’Anghiera who, on November 10, 1503, writes from Burgos in Spain to inform Rome of the true facts of Alexander’s death ―for it is in that letter of his that the tale of the flask of wine, as here set down, finds place for the first time. It is unprofitable to pursue the matter further, since at this time of day even the most reluctant to reject anything that tells against a Borgia have been compelled to admit that the burden of evidence is altogether too overwhelming in this instance, and that it is proved to the hilt that Alexander died of the tertian fever then ravaging Rome. And just as the the Pope’s death was the subject of the wildest fictions which have survived until very recent days, so too, was Cesare’s recovery. Again, it was the same Pietro Martire d’Anghiera who from Burgos wrote to inform Rome of what was taking place in the privacy of the Duke of Valentinois’s apartaments in the Vatican. Under his facile and magic pen, the jar of ice-cold water into which Cesare was believed to have been plunged was transmuted into a mule which was ripped open that the fever-stricken Cesare might be packed into pulsating entrails, there to sweat the fever out of him.”

[silence-herault-of-joy]

"I've never forgotten him. Dare I say I miss him? I do. I miss him. I still see him in my dreams. They are nightmares mostly, but nightmares tinged with love. Such is the strangeness of the human heart."

Yann Martel, Life of Pi

[prideandprejudice]

Cesare should be totally satisfied with this victory, but he worries about his sister's health. She is bedridden and depressed, having given birth to a stillborn. Of course, he tried to comfort her in the letter that came after Camerino's fall.

Ivan Cloulas - Cesare Borgia (Son of Pope, Prince and Adventurer)

[madonna-la-cardinalessa]

Me writing my B.A.’s Thesis: Today I will WRITE and don’t spend to much time on unecessary research.

Also me writing my B.A.’s Thesis: Why the f*ck did author *insert name* wrote THIS? Where is the PROOF? I WILL FIND THE PROOF BY ANY COSTS.