#but I think the marriage thing also makes zero sense and is a questionable choice on his part

[trekwiz]

@janusfranc15

The answers to these questions are really complicated. I don't see a real way to provide an honest and nuanced answer without a wall of text.

My realization of Christianity's "unpleasantness" has a lot of different origins, at different parts of my life.

The first realization is one you've probably had yourself: the Christian god claims that being gay is immoral ("sin" isn't more nuanced than that), and when I started to understand that I am gay, I knew I had not made a choice or engaged in behavior subject to moral judgment.

The underlying claim made as much sense as if the Christian god decided that brown hair was a sin. "Fun" fact: being left-handed was considered a sin, too, and involved physical punishment for it. Christians just like hating people for frivolous reasons.

There are no positive conclusions to make from those facts: if the Christian god existed, then it knew it was making false statements--if it were truly omniscient, then it was also making false statements that it knew would lead to significant suffering and death. This necessarily means that if the Christian god exists, it's an evil being unworthy of worship, and completely devoid of moral value.

The other alternative is that it didn't know it got this wrong. This necessarily suggests that this creature is not a god, or that the beliefs were determined by people who had no knowledge of a god.

Personally, I think it makes more sense that there isn't a god, than it being a malevolent god that wants to sow chaos but won't actually reveal itself, or an advanced creature that just happened to be a fraud.

It was hard to avoid that Christians themselves embraced the lie suggesting that being gay is a sin. I grew up in the 90s. There was no such thing as marriage equality. Sex was still illegal. And my first sex ed class came with this disclaimer, "you can anonymously ask any questions you want by writing it on these note cards and leaving it at my desk. But don't ask any questions about being gay because we won't be covering that."

Even before the internet, it wasn't a secret that this kind of behavior was Christian in nature. Christians controlled the community standards to a ridiculous extent.

I had an experience in college that made me deeply uncomfortable at the time, but in hindsight, provided a lot of insight.

I had come out as a freshman; I'd also become active in the Multicultural Student Affairs organization, including Allies.

The college put together a community panel to explain why equal rights are important; because of my participation in related organizations, I was asked to speak. The panel was well received and we got a lot of thoughtful questions: importantly, there was zero tolerance for bigotry, and they made the event safe.

The campus Christian organization (the progressive, "I prefer to be called a believer in Jesus than a Christian" kind) was offended that this was a specifically pro-equality panel and demanded to hear a counterpoint; they wanted someone to say we didn't deserve rights.

The college said no, that's stupid. (Ok, not literally, but you get the point.) So they decided to hold their own event with their own speaker to talk about, "theo-logic".

It was a Catholic priest who talked about how gay sex is sin because you can't do it while facing each other. ...no, I'm not joking; he had hand gestures to describe frot and how it isn't possible. He also talked about how we didn't deserve rights, and should be considered lesser.

I was proud of my campus community, though: though the audience was a fraction of the size of the real panel, the room was packed with allies who wanted to shut it down. For every Christian in the room, there had to be at least 6 good people.

We argued. We heckled. We called out the stupid arguments. The Christians were pissed that they were embarrassed at their own event.

I was the only one who acknowledged being gay. The part that stuck with me: when it ended, this creepy priest came up to me and said, "I've always wanted to do this." And hugged me.

Aside from being something that happened to me, it's also the perfect analogy for the Christianity I know: it says you're inferior in one breath while pretending to be friendly in the other, so you'll be seen as the aggressor when you question how they treat you. It's a tactic to trivialize the harm they do.

Aside from the fact that there are no secular arguments against being LGBT--and really, how could there be, any more than there could be secular arguments against having brown eyes?--all pro-fascist protests involved slogans like, "god hates ____". There has never been ambiguity that the movement against human rights is a Christian movement.

For a while, I allowed myself to be argued into believing it's just a few bad Christians, and not the religion. I honestly regret that, because it's just propaganda.

It was Christians--the "good ones"--who chipped away at the propaganda for me over the years.

Every, "I wish Christians would stop doing this to us" was met with, "stop saying these things about my religion. It's only fake Christians who are hateful. Jesus never condoned hate. Real Christians aren't like that."

And then the same person making this argument would always end up sharing support for homophobic laws. Or nonsense articles about trans people destroying sports. I have yet to find someone complaining about fake Christians who didn't participate in the hate they were disavowing.

I've had other progressive Christian friends who let the mask slip in other ways. One earnestly said that she didn't think my sin of being gay was any worse than her sin of having an abortion, which she strongly believed should be illegal. 🙃

Another was supposedly an ex-Satanist who believed, "I don't like being called a Christian because they have done some very evil things in the world. I'm a believer in Jesus, but even that's hard to say sometimes because I know a lot of blood has been spilled in his name by Christians."

He started the conversation because I had complained about new laws related to Christofascism. He spent the rest of the conversation using my anxiety as a means of conversion.

"Yeah, Christians are horrible. But Jesus was great, don't you think? I think you'd have really liked him. He'd be disappointed in how Christians act in the world. You should look into his message." He even tried to "relate" to me by saying how hard it was for him to come out as a Christian. 🙃

These are just a couple anecdotes that really stuck with me. But they're representative of what I've seen from Christians in general. It's the used car salesman vibe; they're compelled to sell you their bullshit, and they're not going to let you call out its flaws.

If you get the chance, look through the notes on the post that spurred these questions. I intentionally mirrored common, popular Christian arguments about gay people; they all have real, current laws they refer to. The responses from Christians show more concern with PR for the religion than the underlying behaviors that were called out. I expected it, but it might be eye opening for you.

It was also startling to me that we made recent strides in equality, and lost so much of it overnight. It looked like public perception was turning around and society was getting its heads out of its collective asses about LGBT people.

Then Trump became president and just. Enticed the fascist infestation back into the open. With distinctly Christian messaging. The cake lawsuit wasn't secular. The fraudulent wedding website design lawsuit wasn't secular. The Proud Boys engaging in armed intimidation at LGBT events is terrorism, and it's not secular.

This was Christianity deciding that nearing equality couldn't be tolerated and they had to claw it back. They'll never be haply in a world where we're equal; they'll lay low for a little while and then revoke our rights. Again. At some point we have to call out that cycle and refuse to let them repeat it.

Whenever you hear the words "family friendly", you need to know it's a Christian catchphrase. It was created by Christian groups who wanted to ensure we wouldn't be seen on TV. It's directly related to the bad faith arguments about "grooming."

It's an attempt to make Christian arguments look secular, as a way of getting their religion into the law. It's basically a "get out of a first amendment violation for free card." They've demonstrated recently that they have no intention of being good people; that we will always have to be subjected to these awful false and damaging beliefs.

This return of fascist thought also brought me to a new realization: fascism is built in to the very core of Christianity.

It's not controversial to say that a fascist government includes an authoritarian leader that cannot be questioned, special privileges for the most loyal including privileges against being punished for committing crimes, lesser rights for marginalized people, extreme nationalism, and genocide for outsiders. Those are key defining characteristics of fascism.

This is how Christianity--all of it--is structured. You cannot question the existence of Jesus/god or his "benevolence": that is the single worst crime in the religion. You must do what he says otherwise you're punished for eternity; he's a "loving" authoritarian leader who would only do that to those who "deserve the punishment". You know, evil people like lefties and LGBT people. 🙄

It's most obvious in Catholicism, but church leaders can break the law in the most horrific ways (child sexual abuse being a very common one among all Christian clergy), but their standing in the church never falls. As long as they are loyal, they just get shifted around. This is an obscene special privilege.

But if you're just a member of the congregation? You will be vilified for breaking even minor laws. There are different sets of rules for the masses and the loyal leaders.

While Christianity is tied to nationalism in the US, it does also have its own internal equivalent. Those people who think it's horrible that I flipped the script and asked Christianity to confront its own words? It's the same kind of unquestioning allegiance, that trivializes and refuses to fix serious institutional flaws, which defines nationalism.

And Christianity has never met a genocide it didn't want to take part in. Even if you're too close to it to acknowledge that this is what Christians are doing to LGBT people, there is an unbroken history of it around the world. If you've read about the bodies found at Canadian Christian schools, you know it's not just the distant past.

But even today, the "soft" form of missionary work is intended to commit genocide. The whole goal of doing things like providing water to impoverished countries is to show how great Christians are, so the locals will decide their own way of life is inferior and abandon it. It's intended to destroy cultures; even if it's not always waged as war and torture, the goal hasn't changed. They've just made genocide look polite.

I don't believe it's possible for a religion to have a world view that's deeply tied to fascism, and be capable of having denominations that aren't evil in some way. Seeing that kind of fascist structure as normal will inevitably poison how you see other people and the world around you.

Which ties in to your next question. If you discount the damage a fascist religion does to the way a person thinks, I'm still certain there aren't any decent denominations.

There are a few reasons. The biggest one is that most Christians will say they're part of a progressive denomination. But it should be apparent that it's impossible: if most Christians are good people in denominations that aren't hateful, how do that minority of bad Christians keep getting anti-LGBT laws on the books?

Evangelicals are the loudest and most visible, but they alone don't have that kind of voting power. Just like it's obvious that it's not just Catholics who are behind abortion bans. They're a visible enemy, but they are not the totally of the threat. The underlying belief is widespread enough among Christians that it doesn't immediately guarantee their loss at the ballot box. They vote together when it comes to voting against our lives.

There are plenty of "I support you, I don't think being gay sends you to hell" Christians who still vote for Christian candidates who do believe that way. It's not a deal breaker for these people, because it's still tacitly a part of their religious beliefs even when they pretend it's not.

It's also compounded by the PR provided by the "nice ones." Think back to my comment about how closely the culture mirrors nationalism: If a Christian attacks a gay couple with a knife and you point out that Christianity was a motivating factor, you will absolutely hear from the "nice ones".

They will tell you that not all Christians are like that; that it's a "loving" religion, and it's horrible to paint them all with the same brush. That you're just as bad as the attacker for acknowledging that it was a Christian-motivated crime.

But it's necessary to acknowledge that the attacker was motivated by his religion. How do you stop attacks like that without considering why they happen? Could it have been prevented by church leaders if they spoke differently? Did other members of his church accidentally encourage him by agreeing with his mindset? Would the attack have been prevented if he didn't get specific, false and hateful messaging from his religion?

He learned that his perspective was correct from somewhere. It didn't happen in a vacuum, and the religion's contribution is an important fact. But people in the "good denominations" never allow any analysis of the cause, because they don't want it to result in a scenario where they have to change their harmful behaviors. They care more about the perception of their religion than the actual pain and suffering of its targets.

Until they stop serving as PR for the abstract "bad ones", no, there really can't be a good denomination. They all share responsibility for their contribution to ongoing homophobia and transphobia in our society--regardless of whether they're actively encouraging it, or "only" shielding the reputations of those who do.

And even if you find one that's not encouraging LGBT-phobia, and refuses to do PR for those who do, I come back to that experience in college. How do you know this group isn't just being nice to your face, but dehumanizing you and acting against your human and civil rights behind the closed curtain of the voting booth?

The fascist structure and the religion's refusal to admit that being gay or trans isn't a sin points to that latter scenario being more likely.

I hope that answers your questions, but I can clarify anything if it doesn't.

[citizen-of-the-fandom]

Playing Baldur's Gate 3 and I'm mostly through Act 1, finishing up the Underdark quests, when I came across what I think is thus far the most complex, complicated, morally grey question:

What do you do with the Noblestalk?

Like, yeah yeah choosing mean dialogue choices to make Astarion happy is a thing I have made my peace with, it says a lot about a person and so many of the choices in this game are like that. BG3 does not make it easy. There are no "good" options and there are no "bad" options. You have to decide, which matters most in this instance? Do you save a tiefling girl or do nothing? Why?

But the Noblestalk.

Derryth and Baelen Bonecloak.

You meet Derryth and she's angry, bitter, and dismissive of her husband. You rescue him and get back to Derryth and she's like 'dammit I wish he had died' and you think "oh, okay, the morally correct decision is siding with Baelen" and then you find out he's been abusing his wife their entire marriage and you're like "oh okay so she was right" but then you think "no, actually, when Baelen lost his memory and she treated him like shit and sent him to fetch things that could have killed him, that's wrong also--"

Being hurt and choosing not to hurt others, regardless of whether or not they deserve it, is one of the main themes of this game. Breaking the cycles of abuse.

So, as I usually do I look up the wiki to figure out what happens if you choose path a or b or c because this is surprisingly difficult, and there were no correct answers. I felt bad no matter what I chose.

The answer that made the most sense, that ended with Derryth realizing what she and Baelen are doing to each other and leaving him, requires giving Baelen the Noblestalk.

Which means he gets his memories back and starts abusing his wife again immediately. She has to go through it again before she says "no more" and leaves. This leaves Baelen in charge of his shop and seemingly rich and with zero problems, having never learned anything even like a lesson.

And if you were going to play this in character, with no knowledge of what happens in the future, what would you choose?

(I'm choosing to give it to Shadowheart, and meditating on the fact that I am now resigning Baelen to a shitty life at the hands of his wife, just because he hurt her first and it's a video game and I can be petty and I value Shadowheart's story more.)

It is a complicated question, a truly morally grey quandary and it really made me think.

[felikatze]

andaron saga screaming

I KNEW BAUD WAS GONNA GET SIGURD'D I FUCKING KNEW IT

like "haha baud is so disorganized that's why jakka is the convoy character

i know what you're doing

i know

also if you dont take the dawncaller mortimer gives you a SILVER SWORD. HEY

also also like. as soon as aylanda says she's pregnant it's like. yeah baud is gonna die

i really didn't expect morty to be the one to do it

logical brain: yeah out of the steel brothers morty really is most suited to be king. he's the only one with any intelligence

emotional brain, sounding a lot like jakka: MORTIMER STEEL YOU ARE A DEAD SON OF A BITCH

it's so fucking funny how i. saw baud's corpse thru the cell. i checked his stats. all zero. "ah yeah cuz he's unconscious right. this is gonna be an escort mission" checks his con. "still 7? theodor can carry him easy then"

aylanda: "my husband is dead"

me: "ah"

and like. it feels SO logical that morty would be the one to betray him. at first i was ragging on samuel in the scene where baud and morty get "captured" cuz i thought it was just sam but

it's entirely logical that when sam came back to house rose to heal theo that morty would catch wind of baud and aylanda. and that morty could use a) baud hurting theo and b) sam's hatred of aylanda to turn ol' sam against baud

cuz it was morty needling baud into taking the throne when all he wanted was to elope. morty's arguments for killing baud makes sense. baud has the most legitimate claim to the throne of andaron since the rebellion. what really sealed his fate was having a kid, cuz it proved he and aylanda are for realsies. everyone fucking hates the lightbringers, everyone fucking hates house steel, but the worst thing about tradition is that it has weight

morty cant kill aylanda and the kid cuz of the whole "only a lightbringer can stop darkness" thing, which he WOULD know about bcuz he's the biggest momma's boy and lady maria was besties with the lightbringers. (didn't he also learn illusion magic from a lightbringer tome?)

on the other hand of course you're on jakka's side here. from the game you know that baud is just a good guy who dreams of a simple life with the people he loves. there's the whole backstory that he was a bit of a scoundrel, a gambler and a player - but falling for aylanda really changed him, made him want to shape up and do right by her. it's a shotgun marriage after 3 months yeah but that's also game limitation you cant build the relationship up for half the game since you gotta keep the plot moving.

so seeing how baud changed and that he was only convinced to take on randall with the argument it would keep his family safe and then he's killed by his brother. augrh.

and jakka's been his right hand through everything. jakka's a piece of shit in a lot of ways but he cares about his crew and he DOES soften up to jaheira and garram throughout the game. all it really took for him to start dismantling his prejudices was actually meeting the people he kept talking shit about and seeing them as. also just people. like he's not all there he still keeps calling jaheira a scalie but he respects her at the very least.

also the convo with ashley where she asks him if baudimon was really a brother to him and he gets so worked up about it. like i dont think he has a crush on baud NOW but he definetly did at some point. but also this convo questioning jakka's feelings right before he finds baud dead AURGH

and jakka's skill being loyalty. When within 2 spaces of Baudimon-

it's a skill that gives him bulk earlygame when jakka really needs it but now it's just. a dead skill slot. it's nothing. it's just gonna sit there. Loyalty. When within 2 spaces of Baudimon-

I had Baud and Jakka on B support and as for any dead character that's just gone now. AURGH.

rip to everyone who took the dawncaller and didnt get zakarias cuz i am THINKING abt his talk with jakka in 12x. how he said jakka's gonna come to a choice soon and jakka said he'd put baud's life over his own. and zakarias tells him it's always easy to choose in your own head but would jakka really? would he put baud over his family? over femke, a character we've never seen and only know through how much jakka loves his sister?

and i think that can still apply and i am betting RIGHT NOW that jakka will have to choose between his friends/family and his desire to avenge baud. it wont be baud's life he puts first, it will be his war brother's ghost. i am saying this now i am speaking it into existence.

Good game moment jakka vowing to kill mortimer really really hurts. morty i trusted you. i'm gonna kill you so fucking dead. if it plunges andaron into a civil war because the entire royal family is dead then so be it.

[saintobio]

That final scene reminds me of the “we were on a break” ordeal between Ross and Rachel.

Ffs Utahime, that was an all time low. I’m a believer in three strikes and then you’re out, but she struck out after the first swing.

Also part of me thinks Gojou isn’t 100% about Utahime. He wants to move on because YN told him to and Utahime just happened to be there.

It’s also kind of underhanded that Utahime went above and beyond, as well as behind YN’s back to cater to Gojou just to scratch the itch she has to be loved by someone, even if it’s her best friend’s ex husband.

If this were Euphoria, Utahime would literally be Cassie. The toxic Nate would be Gojou. And the fabulous Maddy would obvs be YN.

There’s this connection I can think of when Maddy asks Nate if he knew that she loved him and if he felt loved by her. I feel like this really reflects Gojou and YN’s situation bc I don’t think there was ever a doubt in Gojou’s mind that YN loved him, but that wasn’t the case for YN. She felt like she had to earn Gojou’s love the way Maddy would put extra effort into her appearance and “study” sex to make him feel powerful and so that she’d be desirable to him. Much like Nate with Cassie, Gojou really only zeroed in on Utahime because she was there and available. I can’t remember exactly but I have the fevered memory that maybe YN expressed her doubts to Utahime and wondered about an idealized life with Gojou and Utahime steered her away, maybe I’m just doctoring up a memory, but I’m still gonna reread just in case it was a thing after all. But if it did happen, then it’s be a parallel to Maddy telling Cassie she was considering getting back together with Nate only for Cassie to tell her not to solely based on her own hidden agenda.

Also… part of me still thinks that Toji might not want to go through with his marriage to YN after all and at this point he’s just being stubborn despite his own son throwing it in his face that he doesn’t love her as much as he thinks he does. Which I think is the case for YN, too. I don’t think she’ll ever love Toji the way she thinks she does.

In my mind, I still think Gojou and YN are endgame. If anything… the ending of this chapter proves it. I don’t think YN would have reacted that strongly if her feelings for him were gone and she was done with him like she claimed. I think part of her really wanted, or secretly wished, for Gojou to insist and woo her into taking him back. She wanted it to be more than just word of mouth which was the case for Sincerely Yours. She needed to see him in action in order to give him a second chance. Part of me would have loved to see a scene where Gojou wasn’t with Utahime in his penthouse and for him and YN to have a moment. I wanted to see her break and actually express that all she’s ever wanted was for them to be a family together but to share her conflicted feelings and sense of commitment and debt to Toji.

Also… Gojou telling Utahime that he could learn to love her reminds me of some of Gojou’s inner monologue from SY, where he still believed himself to be in love with Sera and was attempting to work with YN. The only big difference was that Gojou truly loved YN all along and saw her as a happy ever after, and Utahime is more of an option in a multiple choice question.

I KNOW I WROTE A LOT but my thoughts are fresh and I needed to vent💀

Much love♥️ as always, you fucking killed it

such an interesting read !! you never miss 👀 and also all the euphoria parallels, even the smallest details, made sooo much sense. i didn’t even notice them 😭 tyty for reading!!

[shoutaaizawas]

Also hhhh bakugou in arranged marriage w "have you ever kissed anyone before?"

thank you for this request!!

↳ bakugou katsuki x fem!reader → ❝free❞

event: au prompt event summary: you have no choice but to marry bakugou katsuki, your parents made sure of that. he’s the last person you would want to marry but maybe he’s not as bad as you thought. word count: 2,835 tags/warnings: arranged marriage!au, fluff, a hint of angst

It would have been your preference to not end up in an arranged marriage but sadly you didn’t have much choice. It wasn’t that you were in love with someone and couldn’t stand the thought of being without them. No, you were single and had been for a long time. Well forever technically.

Maybe that was why your parents had set you up with Bakugou Katsuki. Well set up was a polite way to put it. More like guilted into and slightly threatened into an arranged marriage. Your parents were great heroes with great quirks that were passed down to you and you were following in their footsteps as a hero.

They wanted you to have children that would also have a great quirk. There way of doing that was to have you marry Bakugou Katsuki. If you refused not only would they be upset but they had threatened to kick you out of the family agency and denounce you which would end your dreams of taking over the family agency. You considered starting your own but if they denounced you publicly you would drop so hard in the ranks you wouldn’t be able to.

It was a bad situation altogether but you supposed that there were worse things than getting married. You just weren’t sure if it was better or worse that you were familiar with Bakugou. The explosive hero, Ground Zero, was known to all. He was an impressive hero with a powerful quirk it was no wonder that your family picked him. You had worked with him enough to know that his personality was a bit much. Fitting to his quirk.

Your mother had insisted that you meet him for dinner, you were thankful she didn’t insist on attending with your father. At least you could try to pretend this was just a blind date and not the first official meeting that would end in you marrying someone you hardly knew.

There were very few things in your power so one way you decided to get your internal revenge was by dressing down for your first meeting. A part of you hoped he would be so unimpressed with you that he would back out and you would be free. Maybe if you had more time you could establish your own agency before they found another suitor.

The dinner was at one of, if not the nicest restaurant in town. You were certain sweat pants and a loose shirt were not to dress code but that was the point. You internally snickered at the look the hostess gave you as you told them you were here for a reservation under Bakugou.

Approaching the table you almost felt bad when you saw how nice Bakugou had dressed for the date.

“You’re dressed nice.” He comments sarcastically.

“Only the best for my betrothed.” You said giving a curtsy before sitting down. “Can’t say I’d ever imagined I’d be here with you.”

“I can say the same thing.” He said.

You ordered a drink, something strong to get you thought the night. Bakugou wasn’t your favorite person, granted you couldn’t say that you knew him very well but your interactions had always been tense at best.

“So why did you agree to this?” You questioned.

“I have a few reasons.” He said but you already knew he wasn’t going to elaborate.

The rest of the dinner was awkward. You discussed details of the process. It was very taboo arranging marriages in this day and age so it was to be kept secret. You would ‘date’ for a few months before planning the wedding. You have a few drinks ordered something expensive and left him with the bill going home to sulk about your new life ahead of you.

You hadn’t expected him to text you that night asking if you got home okay. You smirked at his dismissive response when you asked why he was worried about it.

Bakugou text you that week asking if you were free. You knew that for things to look normal you had to have the appearance of dating even if you would rather avoid him, enjoying the rest of your single life that was fading away quickly.

You figured he would take you out to dinner every once and a while and you would be done with it but he took the time to plan out dates. Taking you to the zoo, to festivals, even to amusement parks. It caught you off guard that everything he planned were things that you enjoyed doing. He would even get you little gifts that you loved, not that you would admit it.

Perhaps what surprised you the most was that he tried to get to know you. The great Bakugou Katsuki, arrogant, hostile, and explosive was taking the time to ask personal questions. You almost resented him for it but after a few dates you realized something.

As much as it gave you a sense of instant gratification to be rude or annoy him in the long run it would only hurt you both. If you had no choice but to marry him did you really want to shoot down his genuine attempts to start a relationship?

You supposed that was how you started to fall for him. When you took the time to answer him genuinely and ask him questions back you realized that he wasn’t the man you thought he was. Underneath all the attitude was a good man who cared and had a good sense of humor. Someone who had been formed by his childhood and the way his parents treated him and was trying to change that. Someone who wanted to be a good hero and help people.

There were even times that you could forget that you didn’t choose him. Sitting with him at dinner laughing at something stupid he said while he nearly pouts at you, how could you remember that this was set up?

It was a beautiful night, a perfect end to a lovely day with Bakugou. He had taken you to all your favorite places, you had eaten your favorite food and now you were in a beautiful part of the city. Lights sparkled around the two of you as you walked through a nice park.

The two of you stopped to take in the view, standing side by side, arms brushing against each other.

“I know that these aren’t normal circumstances but I was hoping today could make things feel a little more normal.” Bakugou said looking over at you before getting down on one knee, presenting a small velvet box to you.

The ring was beautiful, not what you expected. So many would go for the typical ring, silver, shiny with a big diamond on it showing off how expensive it was. But this was exactly your style. It was delicate and detailed with a unique gem, not showy or expensive but your favorite gem stone. Your breath caught in your throat as he stood, sliding the ring onto your finger.

“Bakugou, it’s perfect.” You nearly whispered.

“Call me Katsuki.” He said.

“Thank you, Katsuki.” You said looking up at him. How did he look so perfect in this light? His features so striking and soft at the same time, his red eyes boring into yours with emotion you hadn’t expected from him. When had you fallen so hard for this man? The man just months ago you couldn’t stand.

With his proposal the media went crazy and wedding planning began. It was easy to pretend that you and Bakugou were a normal couple before but with planning underway it was a reminder that this hadn’t been your choice. You were almost upset with yourself that you nearly didn’t care anymore.

Bakugou was good to you, he was considerate and respectful and sometimes it felt like he loved you. Not just the shallow love that many people had for each other but a real kind of love. The kind of love that meant you would do anything just to make sure the other person was happy.

You were at Bakugou’s place cooking together in the kitchen when he brought up a subject you had been hoping to avoid.

“You know, we’ve never kissed before. We’re getting married in a few weeks but no kissing.” He said.

“We’ll get to that at the wedding.” You said not looking away from the vegetables you were chopping, hoping he would drop the subject.

“Are you blushing?” You could hear the smirk in his voice without looking over.

“I don’t know what your talking about.” You turn to look at him with an annoyed look on your face.

“I know a flustered girl when I see one.” He teased. “Have you ever kissed anyone before?”

“I don’t see how that’s any of your business.” You defended. Okay, you could admit that your future husband probably had some business with the topic but you were embarrassed and had been hoping to not bring it up and get it over with at the ceremony.

“Do you want to have your first kiss in front of a crowd?” He asked. “What if you bump your nose into mine? Or hit your teeth?”

Crap. You hadn’t considered the ways things could go wrong. Unfortunately he made a good point, you didn’t want to embarrass yourself in front of who knows how many people. Your mother was relentless with the guest list. How many people could you invite to a wedding?

“Okay, you have a point.” You admitted. “I don’t know how to fix that.”

Bakugou looked at you like you weren’t getting something obvious.

In one quick movement Bakugou went from standing at your side to pushing you against the counter. Suddenly his tall, wide figure felt so imposing in front of yours with his red eyes intense. His hands held the counter behind you, caging you in. There was no escape. He leaned in slowly, your breath frozen in your chest.

“I can think of one way to fix it.” He said in a raspy tone, his lips near your ear. Your heart was pounding in your chest, cheeks burning. “If you’re interested.”

Just like that the topic of your first kiss was very interesting and something you wanted to address right away. You nodded softly, leaning in to him. He met you the rest of the way, one of his hands moving to you cheek preventing you from bumping him accidentally. You silently thanked him for helping you not make a fool of yourself, even if it was just the two of you. He tilted your head before pressing his lips against yours gently. A softness that months ago you would consider impossible for this man.

After a moment he leaned back with a satisfied grin on his lips. You looked at him with hazy eyes, surprised at how emotional you felt. How could one action make you feel so much closer to him?

“Thank you.” You whispered, eyes drifting back to his lips. A part of you wanted to lean in for another kiss but the other part of you wondered if that was too much. This was an arranged marriage and just because Bakugou had been nice to you it didn’t mean he felt that way about you.

As quickly as you felt close to him you now felt miles away. You stood up straight before going back to chopping vegetables. Just because you fell in love with Bakugou Katsuki didn’t mean that he felt the same way.

It was a week till the wedding. One part of you was thankful your mother was so overbearing, making all of the choices for the event. The other part of you, a smaller part wished you could have a small wedding with loved ones in a private place. That same part wished that the man you were marrying loved you back.

Bakugou had texted you asking if you could talk, normally that would make you nervous but you knew that it was probably just something about the wedding. So here you were at his apartment.

Bakugou opened the door, letting you in before leading you to the living room. You took a seat on the couch.

“Do you want anything to drink?” He asked standing there.

“I’m good right now.” You answered. “What’s up?”

Bakugou let out a sigh before sitting down next to you. He ran his hands through his hair nervously before finally speaking.

“Do you want to cancel the wedding?” He asked.

Your heart dropped. Did he not like you so much that he was ready to back out of the contract. No doubt he knew the repercussions, your parents were ruthless they would drag his name through the mud. The worst part was him asking made you realize that you did want to marry him.

“Even if I did want to I don’t have a choice.” You admitted. You never explained how your parents had forced you into this.

“What do you mean?” He questioned.

“If I don’t marry you my parents will kick me out of the family agency, denounce me in public make it impossible for me to get another job much less not drop to the bottom of the ranks. All my hero dreams gone.” You explained.

An emotion you didn’t recognize flashed across his face before he let out another sigh.

“Your parents approached me, offered me the opportunity to marry you, promised that they would help me in the ranks and my agency.” He said. “That’s not why I agreed, I have no interest in help. I don’t need it. They threatened something similar with me if I didn’t agree.”

It was sad, a part of you wasn’t even shocked that they had forced Bakugou into this too. Your parents had a lot of influence it wasn’t a joke.

“I’m sorry, they’re awful people.” You said as you looked down.

“They don’t scare me, they might be powerful but I’m a top ten hero, I was mentored by All Might, all of my friends are pro heroes, I have my own influence.” He said. “The reason I agreed was you.”

“Me?” You questioned looking up in confusion.

“I’ve always liked you, wanted to get to know you but you never gave me the time of day. I know that this wasn’t the best circumstances but I don’t regret getting to spend this time with you, to really get to know you.” He said. “I never intended on going through with the wedding unless you were one hundred percent okay with it.”

“Katsuki I-” You started but he cut you off.

“I love you, it was too easy to fall in love.” He said. “I care about you more than anything. I don’t want you to feel forced into anything. Back out of the contract, work at my agency, and I’ll make sure your reputation doesn’t suffer.”

“Katsuki.” You said quietly, tears welling in your eyes. He loved you. “Katsuki, I love you too. We could just save the trouble and get married, if you wanted to.”

“I don’t want you to feel like you owe them anything, I don’t want you to feel trapped.” He said. “I want to propose again and make it feel perfect, not like it was expected because of a contract.”

Not only did he love you but he was willing to risk himself to free you form your parents grasp. Tears spilled down your cheeks and you nearly tackled him as you wrapped your arms around him, pressing your face into the crook of his neck.

“Thank you, Katsuki.” You sobbed. “Thank you so much.”

“Anything for you, princes.” He said as he wrapped his arms around you. “Anything.”

Bakugou did as he promised. His team at his agency was able to compile all the evidence that your parents had forced you into this contract. He gave you a job that you enjoyed far more than working at your parents agency. He even promised to help you start your own agency if that was what you wanted to do. Your parents were torn apart in the media, losing almost all of their power and influence.

You were free. Not only were you free but you had Bakugou. You moved in together, loving the time that you spent with him in and out of work. Bakugou proposed again, making it even more special than the first time. You had a feeling it was coming when you couldn’t find your ring.

You had the wedding you wanted, small and with close friends and family in a secluded destination far away from the city.

Marrying Bakugou had felt like the worst thing that could happen to you at first but as you walked down the aisle towards him dressed in a nice black suit it was hard to imagine you could ever feel that way.

Bakugou Katsuki was the best thing that had ever happened to you.

taglist: @sugarmaplewings-fics @lilkiwisfinest @ewwis-but-more-otaku @kandy1410 @moonlightaangel @winnies-headcannons @bkglovesyou @paintedr0ses1 @toobsessedsstuff @spellboundxizi @ourladyofseijoh  @x0doodlebug0x @katsushimaa @mooncademia @moon-write

[mrslackles]

what do you think are gg's biggest flaws?

Ooh, Anon! It’s like you’re in my head. 

I’m busy making a video (that will probably never see the light of day) about this --  my distance from the show has really helped with some super objective clarity -- so I’ll use my notes from that to help me answer. 

I’ll preface this by saying what I was most shocked by after putting down all the points was that Rio isn’t even mentioned until really far down??

Anyway, let's get into it.

These are Good Girls' greatest flaws in my opinion (and relative to season 1 -- while I think it had its flaws too, the list is far smaller and I think that's a separate post)

1. It didn't stick to its guns

What set this show apart from others in the 'Everyday person does crime (poorly)' genre was its comedic lightness, strong friendship element, relatability and emphasis on girl power.

a) By season 2, the lightness was already slowly disappearing to make way for season 3's darkness. (Quite literally; this show said sunlight scenes for WHO.) It also stopped being as fun. Remember how it genuinely used to be fun? I mean let's not forget The Best Scene Ever where Ruby shoots Big Mike by accident and we all laughed our asses off. (Compare and contrast to a similar-in-tone-and-context scene -- or even the whole episode -- like Boomer popping up behind them as Rio's package in season 3.) I think season 3 had some great lines and laughs, but in general, the fun element was completely missing for me.

b) As was the friendship. We already know Annie and Ruby basically became Beth's backup dancers in season 2, but at least then they still seemed to have some type of agency. In season 3, they rarely question Beth's (truly questionable) decisions, don't talk to her about shit like why she's still with her horrible husband and have very few true friendship moments as they did in season 1.

c) Which made it less relatable, but what also contributed was the major plot holes (it's less easy to relate when you're constantly having to remind yourself to suspend your disbelief). And, to be honest, their stupid actions. Just the most common-sense things weren't followed, like not taking your children to a crack den or not putting a hit out on a gang leader. It's frustrating watching a TV show -- where characters are supposed to learn things, have arcs and improve over time -- and feeling like you have more logical sense than all the main characters in every scene. (WHO would think a hitman was going to use a sniper rifle on people in broad daylight on the side of the road???)

d) You don't have to look any further than the title or the stans who shout "THE SHOW IS ABOUT THE GIRLS" -- or, hell, the first 10 seconds of the show where Sara is literally talking about the glass ceiling -- to know that the main characters being women is very important to the show. If not formally feminist, it was at least supposed to be empowering or feel like "girl power" (a term I hate, but we won't get into that now).

And I think it did it pretty well in season 1 -- it actually played on my favourite theme of the show, which is the world's perception of these women being what ultimately allows them to get away with so much. (Rife with opportunities for commentary about white privilege, but also a genius way to upend patriarchal beliefs.) But more and more it seemed like the show was asking you to accept empowerment as simply "these things are being done by women, yay".

And, well.

2. Its marketing

I'll keep this one short because I think we all know how messed up this situation is. Basically they're selling a show (every week!) that they're not making while ignoring all feedback on every social media platform. Which brings us to...

3. The marriage of Death

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times -- Beth's character development starts with getting rid of Dean. Her growth is stunted by him on multiple fronts and it's frustrating to viewers since she's constantly put forth as the main character. Not to mention how the audience, separately from Beth, was originally conditioned to see Dean as the scum of the earth (think of scenes like him crashing his car because he was perving on a woman jogging) so keeping them together is really... a choice. To actively root for this marriage (which seems like what the show wants, at least for the protracted moment) means either thinking Dean is a great person (which, as I said, we've only seen the opposite of) or believing he's all Beth deserves. Which leads me to...

4. Beth's (socio)path(y)

Is sociopath a 'good' word? Probably not. Have I seen dozens upon dozens of posts talking about whether Beth is one? Yes. And I see it from a huge variety of people -- from viewers who just binged the show last weekend to those who've been watching for years, the question keeps coming up. And I entirely blame the writing of the show that, by the way, I don't believe is deliberately creating Beth to get this reaction. I think she's written (and, to an extent, acted) in a way that is much too aloof and I'm not convinced it's meant to come off as cold and unfeeling as it does. Everything else leads me to believe that the audience is supposed to root for Beth, but it's just so difficult.

Beth does a lot of messed up shit that requires dialogue to sympathise with her and the inner workings of her mind, but in the later seasons Beth rarely gets to express herself verbally. And every time she does get to speak about her emotions, the dialogue is a pick-your-own-adventure between "She's in so much denial", "This person feels no emotions" and "I'll go find an analysis/fic later to explain this" (scenes like "Nothing" or "I was just bored"). Compare and contrast with some of the great scenes in season 1 where she emotes, like her paralysing shock after they first rob the store or admitting she enjoys crime, or (one of my favourites!) the one in the park where she's mimicking the other mothers beside her.

5. Brio

I said in the beginning that I was shocked Rio doesn't get mentioned until this point and that's because I've always felt like he was an integral part of the show. When people say the show is about the girls, they're truncating -- the show is about the girls getting into crime. That crime is represented by Rio over and over again -- they never bring in another criminal at his level (which is another one of its flaws, but that's also a different post); Rio is it.

And though I stand by Rio's importance, the truth is that Brio isn't as essential to the show, by which I mean that if all of the above were done well, it wouldn't be as sorely missed. In lieu of riveting plot, a fun friendship, character development and empowerment, most viewers have glommed onto Brio like a lifeboat (or ship, heh).

Unfortunately it's also what the show has most stubbornly refused to develop significantly.

It's honestly a toss-up for why I feel Brio is a flaw: is the flaw that they got together? That they never got together well enough? That the writing keeps bringing in these 'chemistry-filled' scenes that are ultimately filled with air?

I don't know. Maybe all of them; maybe just one, depending on the day.

6. Its criticism falls flat without intersectionality

This is a big one because Good Girls is *trying* to do something very clever. As mentioned previously, my favourite theme of the show is how the women's apparent innocence/vulnerability in the eyes of society is their biggest strength. The show plays with this and other interesting themes with varying levels of success, but ultimately they all fall a little flat when they don't feel intersectional.

When Ruby gets sidelined. When Turner, who sees and all but calls out by name Beth's privilege, is portrayed as the villain. When Rio is told he's gonna "pop a cap" in his young child's "ass". When the racist grandma becomes a sympathetic character whom we must later grieve. (And she really didn't have to be racist, now that I think about it? It was just that one line for laughs and that was it.) When, despite the real-world implications, Dean can loudly announce in a store that he's buying a gun to kill someone with and the show just glides past it. When Ruby has to grovel for forgiveness from Beth for trying to protect her husband and family from the system, with no acknowledgement from Beth about how their realities are different. When Rhea gets booted off the show as soon as she's done serving Beth's plot. When Rio gets treated like a prostitute for absolutely no reason. (Oh, and is accused of raping Beth and is literally spoken of as an animal and starts only existing in zero dim lighting as a one-dimensional stereotype... the list goes on.)

7. PR/The actors

I'll risk my life here to sprinkle this in because I do think it's a massive problem. The Manny/Christina of it all is just the tip of the iceberg (although wtf Good Girls? There's nothing you could do to get these two into an interview together??). The main actors do the bare minimum to promote the show and it's weird. I also think it's the height of unprofessionalism to keep characters on the show against the wishes of the majority of the audience just because you enjoy their actors (Boomer confirmed; Dean highly suspected). While, on the flip side of the coin, limiting a character's screentime because you aren't best buddies with them. Having less and less Rio when he's such a fan favourite is dumb; as is not including him in any series marketing material. It feels personal and that isn't how a TV show should be run.

8. The entire hair and wardrobe department needs a stern talking-to

[canary3d-obsessed]

Restless Rewatch: The Untamed Episode 06 (first part)

(Masterpost)(Episode 05)

Warning: This contains spoilers for All 50 Episodes

Bad Boys Bad Boys What You Gonna Do

Nie Huasang’s brought his nuts, and someone’s brought wine, so the boys are drinking in Wei Wuxian’s guest house. Finally he gets to drink some of the Emperor’s Smile wine that he’s been doing all those product placements for.

Boys, get a bowl or something for your shells, were you raised in a barn?

Wei Wuxian hits on waxes poetic about the wine, and Jiang Cheng tells him to shut up. 

Wang Zhuocheng’s raw-fish-eating face may have failed him, but his drunk faces do not disappoint.

Wei Wuxian teases Jiang Cheng about his list of standards for a chick: She should have natural beauty, be virtuous and caring, from a good family, not too talkative, with a gentle voice, and not too capable. Also she should not spend too much money. Drunken running ensues.

Cue Maple Leaf Rag by Scott Joplin

(more behind the cut)

Much of the fandom has decided this list is a good fit for Nie Huaisang himself, and it sorta is. But he is both talkative and unvirtuous, what with all the current sneakiness, and all the eventual murders. 

This also definitely doesn't fit Wen Qing because she's capable as hell.  

This list is, however, a 100% a match for Jiang Yanli. Not in a weird, Jin Guangyao way--a lot of men want to marry a woman like their sister.  In a gender-divided and generation-divided society, a man’s sister might be the only woman he’s ever known well. Jiang Cheng adores Yanli and she’s his ideal model of a woman, as opposed to his mother, who...isnt.  

All these robes and talismans over the door do nothing to stop Lan Wangji from strolling in.  

Okay so - Lan Wangji is the senior disciple of the Lan Clan, yea? There is no way that patrolling the guest area is in any way his job. He is just walking around here at night specifically to see what Wei Wuxian is doing.

I already did a gifpost of the boys and their totally nonsexual horseplay, over here. I’ll just add, for sad factor, that Jiang Cheng is play-choking Wei Wuxian when they’re all on the bed, and later in the running-and-crying episode he is gonna for-real choke him. Foreshadowing! or maybe just coincidence!

One fun thread running through the young-cultivators episodes is that Nie Huaisang is legit terrified of Lan Wangji while also having a major aesthetic crush on him. Look at how flustered he is here, trying to act sober while also checking him out. 

Lan Wangji is shocked and visibly upset - what are you guys doing? This is not his busting face, this is, for a moment, his vulnerable and disillusioned face. He is super not used to what normal people are like. 

Wei Wuxian doesn't lie or otherwise try to get off the hook, which has got to have Jiang Cheng and Nie Huaisang grinding their teeth in frustration. He invites Lan Wangji to join them for a drink. LWJ cites a the “no drinking on campus” rule and WWX tries to convince him to chill. 

Then we have this lovely coordinated faint by the boys, to get out of going to get punished. Nie Huaisang has been practicing fainting in front of a mirror just in case he ever needs a skill like that in the future. 

Wei Wuxian keeps trying to turn this into a date. Eventually Lan Wangji is so upset he admits he can’t take all three of them by himself. 

Then the boys run away fake-barfing and Wei Wuxian hits Lan Wangji with a talisman. 

Steal His Agency That’s What You’re Gonna Do

What Wei Wuxian does to Lan Wanji here is definitely wrong. But it's not entirely a disaster.  It allows some crucial information to be shared between them, and it results in Wei Wuxian getting the utter shit beat out of him and never doing this again. I mean, he continues to mind-control his enemies and their eventual corpses, but he doesn't intentionally violate a friend or ally's autonomy in the future. Uhh not counting that whole golden core surgery-without-consent situation. And probably some other situations I’ve forgotten. He improves slightly, okay? 

It’s important to note, incidentally, that the Lan rules about drinking and other “vices” should not be viewed through a Christian lens. The Lans are neither puritans nor ascetics (look at their clothes, furniture, and jewelry, for starters). Being drunk is forbidden probably because it’s a loss of self-control. 

Speaking of self-control, mad props to Wang Yibo for being able to have zero physical reaction to fingers snapping in his face.

Drunk Lan Wangji

Under duress, Lan Wangji knocks back a cup of wine and promptly passes most of the way out. 

Wei Wuxian puts Lan Wangji into bed not unkindly, but pretty much like a sack of potatoes. Compare this to how tenderly he handles Lan Wangji the next time he’s drunk. 

WWX tells LWJ to call him Wei Gege, and giggles. Is this a term of endearment in this context? So far the various boys are calling each other -xiong, not -ge or gege.  In Western media, men calling each other “bro” is basically saying “no homo,” but brotherhood and sisterhood in C-Drama is often a way of indicating stronger love than friendship, without saying whether it's sexual or not. 

They finally start to have a conversation, and when Lan Wangji explains that no-one can touch his headband except, etc etc, Wei Wuxian stops trying to touch it. So at least he's not a handsy bastard in addition to all his other faults. 

Wei Wuxian tells Lan Wangji that his clan is boring and women won't want to marry him. Lan Wangji says that's fine. On one level this is the show acknowledging that he's gay, but I think he's responding in a gender-neutral way; he doesn't want to marry anyone. Marriage, from his perspective, is the literal worst. 

We don't know how he felt about his father, but he definitely loved his mother deeply, and she had a profoundly unhappy marriage, in which her husband did not provide companionship and her children were taken from her.

A note about all that: The dynamics of heterosexual marriages in The Untamed are not based on contemporary companionate marriage. Sex and reproduction is a wife's job in this world, and giving a gentry woman the option to choose her husband is radical. Wei Wuxian is the only one who dares say that Jiang Yanli should have a choice when Jin Guangshan casually tries to give her to his son in front of everyone.  

OP made this today but will totally reuse it when episode 23 rolls around

So Lan Wangji’s parents' marriage was extremely problematic but not necessarily for the reasons it would be in contemporary terms. Having signed on to marry Lan Dad, Mom would have expected to live together and get laid regularly (important for health, in some traditional views, regardless of love/no love) and to have the company of her children. Instead, she was isolated. Lan Dad wanted to have it both ways and so even though he loved her and apparently hooked up with her sometimes, he didn't do his duty by her. She didn't love him but she did her duty. 

Wei Wuxian continues to not get it, calling Lan Wangji dull and babbling about Lan Wangji’s parents until he realizes that LWJ is an orphan like him. 

A nice shift happens here. Once the penny drops, Wei Wuxian doesn't ask a single additional question - he just sees - by reading Lan Wangji’s face - what the deal is, and shares his own story to show he understands. 

This is the first time Wei Wuxian mentions being chased by dogs, which is kind of a big deal, because why was he left all alone when his parents died? 

Why didn't anyone take him in before Jiang Fengmian found him? How isolated are independent cultivators in this world? 

Tea Time

Lan Qiren and Lan Xichen are having tea, and the Lan Clan is so uptight they don't touch each other's teacups. I don't know what this thing is called so I'm going to call it a tea speculum. 

Lan Qiren is back from the cultivation conference and says the red crack plague is happening over in Qinghe where the Nie clan lives.  Lan Xichen fills him in on the water demon, specifically saying Wei Wuxian figured out the connection to the red crack dudes, and explaining who WWX is, as if Lan QIren hadn't already thrown stuff at him and threatened to eventually kill him. 

Fun fact that I just noticed this week so didn't make it into earlier posts: In Episode 46, when Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian are in the Jiang ancestral hall, WWX says he was often punished to kneel there, and LWJ said that they heard about this in Gusu.  

So when WWX came to Gusu he already had a reputation as a troublemaker, and the Lan brothers were aware of it.   

Busted and Beaten

A Lan snitch comes in to say that Wei Wuxian has successfully corrupted Lan Wangji, which really shouldn’t cause as much surprise as it does.

“Wei Wuxian got drunk”

“Lan Wangji got drunk”

Lan Xichen takes a moment to consider carefully whether Wei Wuxian is a good friend for his little brother and whether perhaps he was too hasty in throwing them together. Ha ha ha no he doesn’t. 

On the punishment porch, Lan Xichen tries to lecture Lan Wangji in a calm way, but Lan Qiren wants to beat him and Lan Wangji wants to get beat. Wei Wuxian can’t understand why Lan Wangji doesn’t let him take the blame for the drinking. 

Lan Qiren goes way the fuck overboard with this punishment because he's angry--losing control and losing his sense of proportion--and Lan Xichen is shocked. The drone camera watching from above is also shocked.  

Lan Qiren has a few (very few) redeeming qualities, but his extreme rigidity and chronic resentment of anyone he perceives as bad are serious problems. His nephews are both struggling with complex moral quandaries as they get older, and he is absolutely no help to them in resolving their conflicts.

This is definitely...a style of parenting & teaching, but you can see how poorly it works, with Lan Wangji straight up saying “fuck it” after many years of conformity.  Lan Xichen is devoted to the middle path and tries to be obedient. But he is actually not walking anywhere near the middle path, as he gets pulled into colluding with a murderer at the same time as getting dragged onto his brother’s carnival ride. These men need parenting that isn’t so, uh, fucking stupid. (Yes, grown adults still need good parenting; watch Go Ahead if you doubt me) 

Wei Wuxian initially yells and falls down when he gets hit, but then he sees Lan Wangji is taking the beating without any reaction and he tries to do the same. 

Aftermath

Jiang Yanli gently lectures the boys, blaming Jiang Cheng for Wei Wuxian's drinking.  Jesus Christ, he's the younger sibling, could you just NOT, Yanli?  

Both boys ask Yanli not to tell their parents. The boys bicker about who's at fault and then Wei Wuxian shifts to baby voice and starts whining to Yanli about the pain. 

Yanli tells him to suck it up, and says after school she'll -- ok and I know this will be a surprise for everyone -- make soup for them. The boys immediately get back on the same team, which is team Please Put Meat In the Soup.

There's a nice character building moment for Wei Wuxian here. When he sees Lan Xichen he initially turns away to avoid running into him, but then he adults-up and goes to face him and greet him, giving him a half of a bow because of the pain, the pain. Rather than complaining about his punishment he meekly asks if he's broken another rule. 

Lan Xichen tells him that he did wrong but that Lan Qiren’s punishment was too harsh, and then in what is one of my favorite Lan Xichen moments, invites Wei Wuxian to use the cold spring to heal, but doesn't invite Jiang Cheng to go with him even though Jiang Cheng also was beaten. Lan Xichen, Matchmaker Auntie Extraordinaire. 

Then he answers Wei Wuxian’s question about his mom by saying she was just like Wei Wuxian and drove Lan Qiran up the wall. Jiang Cheng's reaction to that is really sweet. He does enjoy Wei Wuxian at the same time as being constantly irritated by him. 

Lan Xichen does his patented “breaking off in the middle of saying something and leaving out a chunk of the story” maneuver, although this time he doesn't include a flute solo. 

OP is mildly obsessed with Xuan Lu’s shoulders in this outfit. Also Yanli has an interesting sword, that's got some wood carving similar to Subian, but without the organic look, which OP only noticed because of screen capping Xuan Lu’s shoulders.  

Club Ruohan

Wen Qing continues to be pretty and slightly evil at this stage, sending magic fire notes to her boss using this talisman that is definitely floating in the air and not just hanging from a string. 

Wen Ruohan is in the mosh pit with his zombie groupies while he reads Wen Qing’s extremely vague status update and says "it all makes sense." 

Reach out and touch faith

Soundtrack

Maple Leaf Rag by Scott Joplin Personal Jesus by Depeche Mode

Writing Prompt

How did Wei Wuxian’s parents die?

Admin Notes

I’m going to start spacing out my “first part” and “second part” posts by a few days.  I’ll update this post to link up the second part once I post it, and my masterpost is always up to date. 

Also: if you want more of my original content but don’t want to follow my whole blog (not following is fine!), I keep a pinboard of fun stuff at the top of my blog. I try to post original content at least once a week.

Continued in the second part later this week!

[siren-of-redriver96]

Villian Heights (part 4)

(reading Wuthering Heights for the first time and  trying to figure out the deal with this book with some assumptions from  previous summaries of the story)

Today: until before Isabella’s letter

(spoilers and kind of heavy themes - also strong language)

(btw some of my quotes may not be word for word because I’m reading it in another language)

some thoughts first: this story seems to be largely about people going insane from a traumatic childhood and circumstance, and a lot of strong emotion that they never managed to find a healthy outlet for)

Bronte’s writing is starting to remind me of Stephen King - in the way he takes the time in IT to describes, sometimes only in a few sentences, why a character has become the way they are - like I said, Bronte is very psychological in her writing

she’s also using a lot - a lot - of words when Heathcliff and Cathy speak/express their feelings, but it kinda makes sense as they just try to put into words what is going on inside of them - it’s a lot, so they need a lot of words

back to the story!

Cathy going crazy is kind of wow - I’m sure she’s showing a certain pattern of symptoms, but I can’t tell of what

kinda sad that she seems to feel so trapped - one thing I noticed, does she ever really leave Thrusscross Grange? Like, did her and Edgar go to London, other cities, take a holiday? They have guests, but so far, it seems they stay at home mostly ... Isabella and Edgar are certainly indoor people, but she isn’t - she’s trapped in that estate, the nearby small town, etc. - it’s smothering her, no wonder she misses Wuthering Heights

idk, but I feel like she wasn’t really given a choice looking at their lack of interests outside the house - I think Cathy could have felt a little better if she had been granted an occupation, given that she used to love horseriding, and different kinds of sports (I think even competition) weren’t off limits for women at that time from what I could research

also, she’s just kind of trapped with her mind - if she had the chance to interact with people and get into the writing and any organization for events that were available for women of the time ... is it just me or do Edgar and Isabella just hang around being rich and don’t think anything else is really interesting? No wonder she goes crazy, this is not working for her abilities (is this a meditation on that the expectations of what a woman would be satisfied with were bs? If so, I like it, Bronte)

TL;DR: Thrusscross Grange is a prison to her - kinda reminds me of “The yellow wallpaper” - is this based on Cathy’s experience? Honest question

Furthermore, as Cathy goes more crazy, she spews out more poetry - she’d be a great writer of that, tbh ...

Nelly has zero patience, but she cares for Cathy when admitting she’s going mad - also props for not taking Edgar’s bs. Dude, you didn’t check on the person you married for three days, knowing she was in her room all this time - go. and. knock. If she doesn’t answer for too long, call the doctor.

dude that man is lazy.

another toxic relationship trait (though coming from a crazy person) - threatening suicide. If someone does this to you, leave. They can live without you. They need help, and this is beyond your capabilities as a partner. This is a case for experts.

also: Edgar, your wife is going crazy in your arms, telling you she wants to die, and you throw in jealousy of Heathcliff? This is really the first thing that comes to your mind?

the scene with Isabella’s dog caught me off-guard O__O (reading this, I thought she had done this, out of some of the madness that several of these characters show)

I thought they wanted to kill it so it wouldn’t run after her

I’m glad he’s fine

Nelly acknowledges the tendency to rage running in the Earnshaw family

kinda bummed of the fact that Edgar acts as a father to his sister and would have the power over her to forbid her any marriage if he decided so (in Heathcliffs case it would be alright, but it still bums me out)

oh, he notices Isabella is not there, but doesn’t check on his wife’s well-being for days. Bravo.

well, at least he lets her be (a good thing in principal)

he’s Cathy’s caretaker now - at leas he does that, but it’s sad for both

Edgar - no - crocus is poisonous, don’t (checks - they’re not vastly poisonous, but still - also, she’s not of great health right now) don’t put them on her pillow

you’re rich - buy roses or something. Or pick daisies. That’s more you isn’t it? (now I wanna pick daisies...)

and they’re nice to each other, that’s good

imagining her moving down to the living room was really nice - and yeah she doesn’t want to move back upstairs, I get it - what else do you have a giant mansion for? Let’s sleep somewhere else now

[funkymbtifiction]

Hello. I have a few odd questions after reading this post I hope that’s alright. INFP said “When I do have feelings for somebody, I love them so deeply that I find it almost impossible to ignore that intensity” and that they’re miserable if they approach relationships ‘pragmatically’ i.e. no attraction and chemistry. So would that mean that high Fi users would be unlikely to do blind dates, arranged marriages (like in Islam where it’s believed love is comes after marriage, would they be miserable like this and unable to fall in love most of the time?), or even to believe in the “well give them a chance, you never know” approach because of Fi?

History stretches way back and often in it, people did not marry for love -- that is a relatively new concept. IFPs in some situations have zero control over their life choices -- in certain cultures and religious establishments, your parents and/or “elders” choose your spouse for you and you don’t have a say. That does not automatically mean you won’t fall in love with your partner/spouse, but it also doesn’t mean you will. In a free society with the benefit of choice, a lot of FP types would say they would rather fall in love than get married for practical reasons. And yet... aren’t all relationships eventually in some sense “practical”? People find people for many reasons -- some of them because they want to fall in love, some of them because they’re afraid to be alone, others because they are lonely. Your motivations are probably derived from your core Enneagram type, more than your personality type -- but a Fi also is miserable, as various posts have pointed out, trying to “force” feelings. The higher the Te, the more able they would be to rationalize with themselves about it, but it’s still ultimately true that Fi does or does not love someone, and cannot force chemistry. I’ve seen FPs be open to blind dates, etc., as long as the ultimate choice is theirs -- and others who refuse to do any such thing. It’s all dependent on them as individuals, what they want for their life, and through what means. I do think, however, the “well, I’ll give them a chance” is more EFP than IFP. IFPs usually know quicker how they feel about someone, and if it’s a no-go, it’s over. It also relates to being sx-blind. Soc wants to bond and forge a relationship, sp wants to nest and grow old together, sx wants raw intensity and friction.

Is this approach to love a high Fe/Te way? <- no, an FJ may also want love or say no to an arranged marriage or a blind date or not care at all.

Would sx-dom high Fe/Te user feel the same way as this because of sx?

Sx is looking for sexual intensity and attraction -- sometimes Lust.

And does this mean that high Fi and sx-doms would be the type to love the most “deeply” then?

What does love mean to you and how do you measure it? To me, love is being willing to stay with someone even when it’s hard, when you have to take care of them while they battle cancer and have nothing to say to you, because they are up at 2am puking their guts out in the toilet -- and you wish you could save them from that pain, because it puts you in literal physical agony to see them suffer. To me, love can mean sending your kid to rehab so they don’t wind up dead of an overdose. It can mean caring about someone enough to walk out of their life, because you realize they are better off without you, that you bring out the worst in them or cause them too much pain. To me, true love is unselfish, and cares more about what is best for the object of their love, than what they want. Is that deep love? Possibly. But it’s not the “consume you alive” kind of love that a lot of movies and books glamorizes, is it?

Basically I’m asking - people love differently right, some fall in love fast and others take more time, some fall in love 'pragmatically’ and others are guided by their feelings, some root their romantic relationships in friendship and familiarity and through that experience love and others base it in chemistry and sex appeal, so does the way we love and experience love correlate with our types and social instincts? How?

I imagine it does, but you’re asking me to compress all of humanity and its complexity into a single answer -- and there is none. I would say heart types make decisions through their feelings, head types try to make them with their head, and gut types operate off of instinct. I know an ESFJ/INTP who got married after their first date (a week later) -- though they had worked with each other for six months. They’re now 40 years into marriage and have been through hell and back, health-wise, without ever making a misstep. I’ve known other couples who dated FOREVER before finally getting married. I’ve seen people hop in and out of marriages and relationships, never seeming satisfied. Are some combos more pragmatic? Yes. Are some more restless? Yes. But that does not automatically mean they will do/not do certain things.

[whencallstheheart]

WCTH Season 8 Survey Results

Thank you so much for participating!  Here’s what you all had to say:

Responses to the short answer questions are under the cut!  It’s very, very long.

What do you see happening in the future with Lucas and Elizabeth?

Literally nothing except them talking about how cute they are and her stupid book

Lucas will lose everything that makes the character interesting in favor of conforming to whatever best suits Elizabeth.  They'll be so boring.

I have no interest in any story between them.

A lot of candles

Reply hazy, try again.

I can definitely see them having a lot of relationship drama and business drama, as well as Lucas learning how to be a good stepdad to Little Jack

They’ll break up when she realizes his criminal ways.

Don’t know, don’t care

Nothing good

Traveling. To see her family to get married

More depth to their relationship (I feel we were told more than shown)

LOL. They're going to be as boring and disgusting as a dead slug.

Hopefully a breakup.

Lucas is shown to be Abusive and Elizabeth will be hiding it.

He loses all his money, ruins friendships through business, constantly stalks Elizabeths every move listening to any conversation she has, having zero interest in Jack and Elizabeth reverts back to her big city attitude, but they stay in Hope Valley and annoy everyone. I’m not sure I see it lasting with the ratings are bad - I think the writers may be forced to make up their mind on Lucas for maybe even Nathan. I hope Jack rises from the dead (that would reek havoc and fun). Really I wish them all the WORST. OH and I think Lucas has deep secrets he wants to hid and I think the writers may even pull a repeat storyline (like with Nathan - even though they claim they don’t repeat storylines).... COUGH COUGH CHARLES MUCH?!? Oh and they’ll have his dad show up in town to cause drama. I almost hope Lee starts to clash with Lucas.

I want them to break up...

Lots of cringe worthy dates. Maybe some disagreements about their jobs or where they might live if they get married. Lucas spending some time with Jack

Elizabeth being out of character to fit with Lucas

the same for any new relationship - rocky roads with great romance

Problems, the two are sickening when they are together and their activities are only about them

Lucas needs to leave.  He is not a family man.  Elizabeth is a mother first, Nathan is a family man.

Lucas will learn to have a family.  Want him to loose the saloon and try to get it back. Problems with the pinkertowns

Hopefully nothing

Whatever the writers have in store. Since I'm choosing something else, I won't know and I won't care.

Well, she already has a great saloon dress, so I see her leaving teaching to work in the saloon while Robert raises Little Jack for her.😜

Boring boring boring storylines!

I do not care.

I don’t see a future as I will not be watching. Show is ruined.

Too many stupid over the top romantic dates

Marriage

Marriage

Engagement, Marriage, and Pregnancy

Not much.  What kind of story or life will they have?  Courting and dining and not much else.

Courtship and eventually marriage if the show lasts long enough. Lucas learning how to be a father. Maybe a trip or something after her book is published.

Get married and raise Jack together. Maybe have another kid.

More of the same. Just a physical relationship with some books and candles. Boring.

I don't know! That's my biggest problem. I can't see a future for them because I can't see them together, I always saw an end point. Where will they even live??

Marriage and a new baby girl

Not much

Trouble. Stress with things not working out as easily as they thought they would.

I honestly don’t know. I just feel like she looked so uncomfortable with him all season. Then all of a sudden she’s making out with him on a bridge?? She didn’t even want to hold his hand and when she did it was awkward.

Not interested at all.

Don't care.  Will only watch for other storylines.

Many dates, becoming a family with little jack , Lucas proposing   On  bridge in   The season 9 finale episode

Disappointment when she finds out he hired Christopher to spy. Lucas will have financial hardships and will spend time with Little jack. May partner with Nathan regarding land grab and the "bad guys".

Honestly no idea. I could see them not working out, but maybe that's wishful thinking right now while I'm still bitter.

I think Lucas will be supportive of her in her work and raising jack and there relationship will grow and they will be engaged sometime in season 9.

Dinners with champagne and too many candles. That's about it.

Chris McNally should leave the show

I'm honestly not sure. I think they have a lot of work to do before they even think about getting married because we haven't even seen a fleshed out relationship between them. I assume there will be some adjustments with how Lucas will fit into Jack's life too as he will be getting older since there has been zero interaction between them. I really have no idea but I also could not care less about either of them, so I'm hoping they won't monopolize the time in each episode. But I also think it would be hard for them to monopolize time because they don't even do anything lol, this is just a long winded way of saying I have no clue.

Getting to know each other better. Helping each other with changes with their jobs. Getting married.

I see them supporting each other through career struggles, Lucas trying to find his role with Little Jack, Elizabeth maybe feeling weird about Lucas’ money and trying to go full homesteader :)

Marriage, fights, baby Jack moments, etc.

Some boring shit...

Them having trust issues only because of how little we actually really know about Lucas and he has put himself in sketchy circumstances before. I honestly just don’t trust him, he’s been portrayed so perfect this season which isn’t realistic at all.

Relationship does not work

He will lose everything and she will see he was superficial

Probably a lot of fancy dates and romance

I don’t really know, not interested much in them.

Writers will have them marry, even though they have no chemistry whatsoever.

I guess something to do with Elizabeth's writing? I'm not sure, I feel like they had such little development together that it's the only thing they share.  

They should be working toward learning how to fully trust each other and communicate properly. Hopefully Lucas bonds a lot more with Jack. I have loved the little interactions between Lucas and Jack and there needs to be more if he is supposed to be Elizabeth's next husband.

Maybe a proposal by the end of next season. I'm really so neutral about the relationship that it doesn't matter to me. Maybe if we actually see some development I'll feel differently.

I really do not care enough to have any thoughts - I will be skipping what the show comes up with anyway.

They have a satisfying break-up lmao. That final scene was the most stilted and painful thing I've watched on the show in ages and that's saying alot.

He will break her heart

I'd hope they find they are just too different and break up. He's too smarmy for her.

A breakup

An engagement and Elizabeth pregnant with a baby girl

Moving back to Hamilton to live their champagne privileged life.  Hope Valley deserves the other characters to have their story told. Nobody wants to see a teacher and saloon owner being together.

Nothing. Completely have no interest in them. Wasted all season watching a so called love triangle.

More of the same.

Marriage

I never saw them as a couple- don’t think it’s a good match — they have not chemistry — hope they

break up — I just find his character as having no charisma - he’s too slick looking.  He was never into Baby Jack.... unlike NAthan

I hope they move away.

I hope they do not marry

I am not sure. Lucus is into the business of making money. That is what drives him. I don’t see him as a family man at all. Truthfully I will be disappointed to see Elizabeth go back to her privileged ways because of Lucus. I think she grew independent of her upbringing and to set her right back into the lifestyle she was born into totally undermines the strength and courage we watched her character blossom into and fell in love with.

Lucas will die.

Moooreee loooveee

Lucas’ relationship with Little Jack as a first time father and how it affects his relationship with Elizabeth

Who cares LOL i do not watch for Elizabeth

Getting maried

Ugh! Don't care.

More courting, scenes with baby Jack, probably some tension

Lucas is a duplicitous, dishonest person. Elizabeth will regret her choice and go back to Nathan.

Business problems, secrets galore, probably a super over the top wedding

More dinner dates?

I see Lucas and Elizabeth still in a relationship, but having some problems. Lucas's trust issues and bad communication vices needs to end!

Honestly, I have no idea.  Whilst I do love the actors and watch them separately,  I find it very difficult to watch their relationship on screen together.  For some reason it sets off a deep seated anxiety in me,  so I tend not to watch them where I can help it.  If I do watch in season 9, it will be for the supporting cast stories, and I will avoid their relationship storyline altogether.

Really don't care as that pairing makes no sense to me

full courtship

Don’t really care.

courtship, some struggles,  and then marriage - hopefully

No idea … don’t care about them

Candles.  Lots and lots of candles.

Don't know

I don't know and I'm not interested

Blah....

Spending time together, double dates with Lee and Rosemary, and dealing with any problems Elizabeth has with the edcuation guy from the county.

I really don't care, sorry.

A nice long courtship

I think Lucas will  encourage Elizabeth when her book is released they will continue to fall more and love and Lucas will propose in the finale of season 9

I have no idea. Their storyline was already so bland and boring. I guess they'll try to write stuff about E's book and then ppl trying cause trouble for the saloon. I dont really care what they do.  That relationship and storyline is dry as toast

Don't really have an opinion

Elizabeth stops teaching to write full time. They marry and move into swankier diggs on the edge of town. Little Jack spends his days at  Rosemary and Lee's house to get away from the constant champagne swigging and insufferably bad French.

Don’t care

I will not this show any longer. Season 8 did it for me.

a lot of kissing

Hopefully small, simple storylines that build up to an actual relationship that isn't just tonsil-sucking smooching. I think we deserve the attempt at seeing a relationship build after all this nonsensical drama.

That she finds out he isn’t who she thought he was and she made a big mistake. By then Nathan will be happy and fulfilled with someone new

More chemistry-free scenes

She leaves him for Nathan

Mismatched couple.  Very materialistic.  Maybe leave the show!

Move out of hope valley

They will make out all the time.

God I don't even know. I'm not remotely invested in their relationship so I don't really care honestly.

Far fetched - I hoping the past catches up and problems arise

Hopefully moving away so we dont have to watch them anymore

Nothing exciting

Boring storyline

I wish a break up

Don't care

L losing his money and figuring out how to be a real person with hardship. E struggling with the school but not actually doing anything kinda like the finale. I want them both to stay away from Nathan and not force a friendship.

Don't care

They will get married and have children

Lucas sells saloon and starts new, family friendly business.  He and Elizabeth court and become more serious

Dating, getting to know each other better, marriage

His shady ways will nip him in the butt and Elizabeth will open her eyes and realize how he's caused her to change into the "Hamilton" woman she didn't want to become.

Continuing courtship, then Lucas does a shady deal and leaves town

breakup

Blech- If those last scenes are any indication

Borrowing inappropriate life

I do not give a damn

I think and truly hope Lucas will show a side of him she doesn't like and she will get with Nathan. Probably won't happen but I think Lucas is just too slick and a little shady.

Think she will discover he has some things she doesn't like or agree with and will fall out of love with him

It will be a love forever!

I honestly think nothing will happen, they'll have another rather long (one season or two) relationship, then they'll get engaged, marry again, have babies... unless they decide to bring in random troubles, but honestly nothing much

Don’t care.  

I'm not really interested in these characters anymore

That they don’t get married and the storyline goes back to the original premise of the teacher and the Mountie.

I don’t care.

I don’t care.

They split up

they will settle into a comfortable relationship and then there won't be that much oppertunity for grown

They're a terrible couple and I don't really care what the writer's do with them.

Not interested in their future

A wedding.  They have unfortunately taken it this far, they have to finish it.  Anything else would make John Tinker's decision even more ridicuous.

I hope she realises she made a mistake thirty seconds into S9 and runs back to Nathan.

Don't Care, will not be watching.

I hope their relationship grows until ultimately they get married and have a family

They will get married and hav a baby girl.

Boring story line of privileged life and focus on book publishing and tour.  No chemistry "romance".Should marry right away as there scenes are so sexualized, which would be scandalous for that time.

fun romance, hopefully more with Jcak

No idea.  I can't picture Lucas involved in the school or any other part of Elizabeth's Hope Valley circle, so I imagine the storyline will give them a new focus.

Elizabeth will realize she made a mistake and leave Lucas!!! Only to find it's too LATE!

L& E have NO CHEMISTRY  

Don’t know, but I’m excited to see them as a couple! Just them getting to know each other even better and becoming more a part of each other’s lives (this includes spending time with Little Jack) as they move toward their future together. :)

They will probably get married.

Whatever serves Elizabeth’s plot line

What do you think they have planned for Nathan?

Who knows but I have no faith in the writers so they’ll probably fuck it up

Maybe he tends to a woman in need?

I would love for him to interact with more people in the town. Definitely more day to day scenes with Allie. I’d love to hear her refer to him as Dad. I hope someone new will come into town who will be perfect for Nathan and he will sweep her off her feet

Something great I hope

New romance. Maybe a tussle with the Pinkertons.

Hopefully a lot of interesting things! I'm hoping for a romance with Faith, I think they could be pretty great

Nothing. If they didn’t decide who elizabeth picked till last minute, no way they have anything planned for Nathan this far out. BB and Tinker are all talk.

Hopefully better treatment but I won’t know because I will not watch anyway

I hope someone amazing

A new love interest

More “Girl Dad” Nathan, potential relationship with Faith of a new character, a platonic acquaintance ship with Elizabeth & Lucas despite everything

Nothing that will do him justice.

No fracken clue. Maybe he’ll focus only on Allie from now on.

Nathan finds out that Lucas is abusive toward Elizabeth and ready to thrown Lucas in Jail where he belongs.

Some bullshit like always. I don’t even care to predict much. They have so much contempt for him it’s insanely uncalled for. They think he’s boring, they think he’s a Jack 2.0 (Brian Bird even said this on Twitter). They undermine his duty, frame him as if he is some like creep who followed Elizabeth to town, when in reality he was doing it out of respect, duty and honor. They are so needlessly disrespectful to him (Kevin knows this), especially bc they framed it as if Nathan never gave E space and time, which we know is BS. He is a real man and does what real men would and we know WCTH is scared of a real man. They’ll try to put him with Faith (snooze), or hell maybe they have not renewed When Hope Calls and he will become a lead on that show (I’d welcome him back into Alfonso’s arms any day). Lord knows Alfonso can write and actually respected his character.

A new love interest. Maybe a career change so he can be there for Allie more.

At this point with how they handled him so far I'm not very hopeful

I truly think something more exciting than it would have been with Nathan and Elizabeth

Not sure, can we trust anything logical to happen, hopefully he can see it was good not to be chosen by Elizabeth

He should be with Elizabeth

Probably saving Elizabeth and Lucas from danger

Help Lucas with this Spurlock Guy.  Navigate with a teenager.

If the writers/producers are smart, they will get Lucas away from Elizabeth almost immediately and get her hooked up with Nathan.  This was a blow and so deceiving to the fans!  (I only answered “someone new” to the question above because Elizabeth was not an option).  

Unfortunately not anything I trust them to do a good job with.

I am worried they’re planning to stick him with Faith.  Ugh!  

BB doesn't care, it will be tacky and messy.

Probably kill him. They’ve done everything else terrible to him.

Sadly, probably a relationship with Faith. Never been a fan of her.

A new love interest

A new love interest

I hope a new love interest. Courtship, Engagement, Marriage, and Pregnancy.

A great love story with someone new to Town!!!

Plenty of Mountie storylines, fathering Allie through teenage years, finding love, learning how to be friends with E & L. Maybe a visit from his mom.

Hopefully an epic story of heroics and a forever love who is unwavering and true to him. He deserves nothing less.

Get shot. Lose a leg. Get a life-threatening infection. Fall in a lake. Get locked inside a burning building.

I think they're gonna try to pair him with Fiona

New mountie responsibility and new love interest

No idea

Leave the Mounties and start a horse ranch or be in charge of the livery. I like him as a Mountie though.

They had all these amazing story lines for him even though it was just one road block after another for him. I want to continue to see Nathan deal with Allie growing up and their relationship.

I feel so disappointed & sad for him.

A storyline that hopefully won't screw him over, with no Elizabeth  involved. She needs to stay out of his life decisions. Bring in a new character for his love interest. But, most of all give him and Allie the happiness they deserve.

Faith romance ,more challenging cases in his job and trouble with ally father

Allie’s Dad, promotion

Not enough! Will try to find him a love interest but will focus on his relationship with Allie and her father, who will come back to cause problems. Nathan will partner with Bill regarding mining disaster investigation and Pinkertons.They need to make him prominent next season for show to survive because Kevin McGarry is beloved by fans and the best actor on the show next to Martin. The Mountie character should be prominent. If they try to put him with Faith it will be like a Dr. Quinn-Sully type relationship, and I don't think it will work. I love Kevin opposite Jen Lilley.

They will probably shackle him with Faith and that will bore me.

Have no clue

Relationship drama, Mountie stuff, trouble with Allie. Pretty much the same as this season but hopefully there will be more of a focus on him instead of Elizabeth.

Love with Faith, UGH. And more incredible fathering with Allie <3 Elizabeth could have had her chance with that family but no, apparently she’s “not in love” with him and never was.

I'm hoping we get to see Nathan form more friendships with other HV residents and deepen his relationship with others. I assume the Pinkerton storyline (which I have no idea how that will play out) will bring him and Bill together professionally, so I would enjoy to see their friendship be fleshed out more. Hopefully more of him with Allie and facing her teenage years as her father will be fun to see. I hope they bring in a new love interest for him because I would really enjoy seeing him catch the eye of someone new and vice versa.

More adventures as a Mountie.

No idea - I think he should find another path though. I don’t think he likes being a Mountie.

Another suitor, work stuff, family stuff, scenes with Allie

I just hope it is not faith as his love interest

Hopefully more storylines about him and Allie! I love them and I just really hope they focus on him and his journey with Allie. I don’t want a romantic storyline for him bc that’s really soon and he was IN love with Elizabeth so it would be unrealistic for him to jump into another relationship like that. I do want him to get over Elizabeth though and see him recover and grow from that!

Elizabeth will come to her senses and ditch Lucas for Nathan

A new love. A spunky woman who goes after him.

No clue!

Probably a love story with Faith, but I don’t like that direction if they decide to go that way.

Not to be a leading man and take the focus off of Elizabeth.

Probably a new love interest. I didn't catch that he could potentially end up with Faith at first, but I'm down for it as long as they can make it work. They've both been left behind by the people they love, that would make for an interesting narrative at least.

They probably will pair him up with a female character, but I think he should stay single and continue to focus on raising Allie.

Hopefully they don't go the Faith route, but I have a feeling they might.

A good Mountie storyline with the Pinkertons etc. I'd like to see Allie's Dad again too.

Ehhh they'll probably put him with Faith which I'm not into at all.

A spin-off I hope

Not sure, I felt he belonged with Elizabeth all along.

Who knows. I don’t trust the show runners anymore.

Faith and challenges raising ally

Hopefully leave Hope Valley and leave that shit show. I’m not really buying the writers saying they have exciting things for him. They have mislead the viewers too long. It’s a ploy to keep the viewers watching the show. It’s all about covering their butt right now and try to keep the ratings.

I don’t know. I won’t be returning to watch

Grief.

Faith

I think Elizabeth has trouble w/Lucas and runs back to Nathan realizing that she made a mistake.  A blended family would have been a good storyline.

I don’t know, but it better be good!

Don’t know

I would hope that he would be allowed to at least go on an actual date with someone before he is over looked and not even given a chance at love. That the decision to whether he is able to love and be loved is not determined by the uniform he is wearing but rather by the quality of the man wearing the uniform.

🤔

Mourning the loss of Elizabeth and then finding a new love interest, hopefully successfully

Something amazing I hope but the writers are so terrible I do wonder if they can

good things

I hope love

No idea.

Exploring being a father to Allie, An ACTUAL love interest, probably more career - mountie vs “normal” life thinking

I hope that Elizabeth and Lucas break up when she realizes how bad he is. Nathan loves Elizabeth and was NEVER given the chance to even have one dinner date with her. Elizabeth needs to have an opportunity to see him now for the incredible man that he is.

New love interest, new job maybe?

Probably a romance for Allie he has to handle?

Probably to put him up with Faith...

I hope something fantastic after the shocking story-telling he has had to endure this season.  I love him and Allie, and him and Bill, and feel there is great potential there.

I hope something good for what he's endured

Action storylines

At this point have no idea.

hopefully something fun, Kevin is a funny guy and they should take advantage of that

Downplaying his role as a “police” figure

I think they will put him with Faith, but I hope not.

New love interest

I hope that he will have as important a role as before (like, for example, the one Abigail had before she left) and that he meets a new love interest.

Faith

Nathan needs some stories with humor and adventure but they will probably focus on his romance next.

Bigger mountie related stories, new love interest perhaps

Fiona, Fiona fiona

Dealing with losing Elizabeth him and faith will bond over heartache and eventually become a couple he will have some problems taking ally as she continues to get older maybe a new aspect of his job being a Mountie

Also dont care what they do because anything after this point will never make up for the way they screwed his character over.  They'll probably write him with Faith which we all know makes zero sense. I would hope someone new comes along for him to love him the way he deserves but I dont think that will happen.  He'll have problems with the Pinkertons probably.

I hope some happiness for a change

They have already telegraphed that Faith will latch on to him. Yuck, what a consolation prize.

nothing

Probably some action stuff.

He will emerge as the strong wonderful Person he is.  He will be involved with the Pinkertons storyline.  He will find a new love and be happy

Back stab his character again

Promotion and a new mom for Allie.

Death

I hope someone new comes in and adores him.

I'm sure they'll rush a love interest for him as a consolation prize while also still trying to shove Elizabeth into his life as a "friend".

Life with Allie

Don't know with these writers

New love interest

Not sure

To be with Elizabeth that's what i want to keep watching

Saving the town from the Pinkertons. Dealing with bill and the mine. Making new friends and being admired by everyone including l&e. More sweet lessons with Allie (helping her in math) and possibly the aftermath of Dillon coming out. That could be a good opportunity to have him lean on someone new. I’d like Allie to put E in her place when she oversteps her involvement in N&A life since we know she will. It’ll show A maturing as a 14-15 y/o and serve E a much needed amount of humble pie after the crap she pulled with them in S7&8. Please no rushed friendship with e or l like give the guy a season and also make them the uncomfortable ones. He deserves to hold his head high. I would love for him to tell E he’s more than his uniform and it’s unfortunate she never tried to see that.

Don't no

A new girlfriend

He finally loses the chip from his shoulder

Not sure yet, a town mystery maybe, time him to heal with what happened.

He will uncover Lucas' shady ways.

Wrangling with the Pinkertons

No idea

Probably nothing to good

I do not want to Know. Not interested in the show anymore

I have no idea. I really can't imagine him with anyone but Elizabeth

Don't know but they did him wrong with Elizabeth's decision. She left Hamilton because of the life-style Lucas has. JUST DOESN'T FIT!!!!!!

another love

Probably more Allie and Mounties related things, and hopefully a nice, good love interest. I am really hoping they'll keep Elisabeth away from him for at least one season. The last thing we all need is her being all up in his business again with Allie and goodness forbid his new love interest #LEAVENATHANALONE (sorry, couldn't help it)

Hopefully finding love and happiness with someone who makes Elizabeth feel she made a big mistake.

j'espère juste qu'ils ne minimisent pas le temps de presence à l'écran de son personnage, qu'ils arrêteront de mal le traiter pour rien et qu'il lui arrivera que de bonnes choses

I don’t care enough to speculate.

Something lame.

Something lame.

No idea. They've just wasted the family Allie, baby Jack, Elizabeth and him already were.

sideling mountie buisness

I hope he finds true love.

A new love, but I hope they don't pair him up with Faith. More mountie stuff.

New love.  His continuing story with Ally.  More examples of his nobility, if they are smart.

If I were Kevin I don't know if I'd want to stay.

Probably another beating.

I would love to see Nathan and Fiona get together as a couple I think they would be awesome together

Romance with faith problems with ally’s father struggling with ally growing up and maybe him getting hurt on a mission.

That Nathan's heart will heal and that he will fall in love with a new beautiful godly woman coming to Hope Valley (A new teacher that can teach special needs?)  Continue to build the strong relationship with Allie and be an excellent dad.

new love

They'd better have an EPIC love story for him!

He needs to find someone NEW so when Elizabeth comes back it's too LATE!!  Faith and Nathan NO WAY!! You can't just fall out of love with someone just like that.

Challenges  in him being a Mountie . I really hope that he has a good storyline and has some romance with faith and is happy in his life and not despressed with Lucas and Elizabeth being a couple.

For Nathan, we should see him slowly healing from his heartbreak, and fully finding his place in the community beyond Elizabeth. Definitely more of him and Allie as a family. I expect our Mountie will become involved with whatever is going on with the potential new factory and the Pinkertons hanging around. No guesses as to what he and John Tinker have in store exactly, but I hope it’s good! As this is a Hallmark show, they probably can’t bear to leave a main character single for too long, so they’ll probably start setting up a new love for him, but hopefully not too soon.

Continue to be a parent to Allie and have a new love interest.

Lessening of his prominence on the show

What did you love about this season?

Well, I liked Nathan’s parts

that they attempted to fill some of the holes in plots and that they gave everyone something meaningful to do.  Ned and Florence were great.  Loved meeting the Canfields.

I was happy with the season up until the finale. I loved the thought of Elizabeth and Nathan going through everything to make their relationship stronger. Now it seems pointless. They kept kicking Nathan while he was down and he never got a fair chance

Allie and nathan

References to Henrigail.

Seeing the town become more busy and lively I guess

That Nathan was going to end up with Elizabeth.

I also loved the Canfields and the bigger storylines for minor characters.

Nothing at this point, it’s all tainted by garbage finale

Too rushed and not written well

There were more stories with other people

The ensemble as a whole....

The Coulters, Henry and Christopher, the Canfields, Florence and Ned, and Hickam and Fiona.

The Nathan / Allie storyline.

Jack Jr, Elizabeth and Jack Sr Photo

Absolutely nothing. It was blasphemy. My favorite moment was Either the Fort Clay argument at Bills uniform event thing, or Allie sticking it to Mrs. Thornton by ripping up the dinner invitation in front of her face in the school house. I like any suffering Elizabeth went through and Lucas.

Some things that were left hanging from prior seasons were resolved. The Canfield family- it was nice to see faith-related things being more included in the show again like in earlier seasons. Florence and Ned were adorable. Mike and Fiona were pretty cute together too- love how they encourage each other to be their best!

Not much but Nathan as a character

The Canfields, Ned and Florence, Rosemary and the paper, and the ending of the triangle

Nathan's smile.

Nothing

Florence and Ned

The Canfields and  the bell even though Lee should have is back jam when he lifted the bell.

The Nathan/Elizabeth scenes

Allie's adoption. Joseph Canfield becoming the new minister.

Florence and Ned’s romance, Lee’s one liners, Molly’s pursuit of Bill, when Elizabeth thought she was holding Lucas’ hands but it was actually Nathan

I loved the Nathan/Elizabeth story of getting over fear and do what you are afraid to do theme, until it all went sideways in the last 20mins!!!!!

Fiona and Mike

Nathan and Allie

Rosemary and Lee

The end of the triangle

The Canfield's.They are a breath of fresh air. I love that they love God, their family, and others. Ned and Florence was a beautiful love story. Bill and Molly. Molly giving her dress to Florence, Fiona adventures, Nathan and Allie's stories, Rosemary and Lee, and every minute of every Canfield.

Relationships - Fiona and Hickam, Allie and Nathan, Henry and Christopher. Joseph becoming the pastor. Nathan’s character growth.

The Canfields, Nathan’s storyline( even though nothing went his way he was always noble and true), Rosemary and Lee as always

I liked Hickam getting more story. I liked Rosemary starting the paper. I liked Minnie working at the restaurant.

Elizabeth finding love with Lucas

Allie and Nathan. Getting to see some of the fun side of Nathan.

Nathan and Allie. I liked Elizabeth with them too until the ending.

Seeing Nathan and Allie. Canfields. Mike and Fiona. Ned and Florence. Bill and Molly. Lee and Rosemary. So I guess the point is the attention on the other characters and couples. I think I enjoy the new couples just because we finally got to know two more side characters each time.

Nathan & Allie.

Everything BUT the annoying love triangle!

All the Lucas and Elizabeth dates, almost kiss in the rain ,  and the finale was the best episode of the entire series, there kisses were enchanting

Nathan

Humor, Ned and Flo, finding out Nathan's involvement with Jack finally. I thought Kevin did a magnificent job  and I loved seeing Jaeda shine- she is so talented. I loved Henry and Christopher and the positive impact of Rachel. My personal quote favorite: "Go stuff your trout!"

Nathan's face. Rosemary and Lee, the Canfields, Ned and Florence's wedding.

The triangle  Rachel and chrispthoher  can fields rosemarys paper

Anytime Henry referenced Abigail and telling stories about ALL the characters, not just Elizabeth. I like the whole ensemble cast feel. This season did keep me engaged, I always tuned in when it aired.

The Canfields arriving, Henry mentioning Abigail, and Nathan and Allie - because Kevin McGarry and Jaeda Lily Miller are incredible actors with fantastic chemistry.

I really loved seeing more storylines introduced with the other characters and then for the most part developing those storylines. I adore Ned & Florence, I thought their wedding episode was so sweet, and I think they will bring a dynamic as a couple that will be fun to watch. I like how they have such a rapport together and with the mercantile being the center of town, I'll enjoy seeing more of them next season. I loved the edition of the Canfield family, both Angela and Cooper are so sweet and are great additions as HV kids. And Minnie and Joseph quickly turned into some of my faves this season too! I love them as a couple and I love them building relationships with the others, the Lee & Joseph friendship was definitely one of my favorite things this season. And Minnie is such a soft-spoken badass, I would listen to her read an audiobook all day long haha. I enjoyed learning more about Henry with the addition of Christopher, I definitely liked the depth their scenes brought. Any time my faves Lee & Rosemary were in a scene together was a win for me. I liked the crush developing between Allie & Robert too, v cute. Overall, I really enjoyed the new relationships that were formed and the new additions that were brought in, I think it paved the way for a number of new stories that I will be excited to see play out.

Fiona and the Canfields were the best storylines this season.

Lucas and Elizabeth are finally together.

Lucas' character is a real gentleman.

Martin Cummins was phenomenal, and I loved the whole Christopher story, including him and Rachel, and Henry reflecting on Abigail and being there for Ned. Joseph and Lee’s friendship is great. Loved Rosemary finding a new career. And Robert!

I would’ve liked Clare and Jesse struggling if they handled it better. I liked the general structure they began of drawing out stories and slowly unpeeling their layers but they set up too many in every episode and didn’t follow through well. If they can tighten that structure, it would be great.

Angst, Henry, The wedding, etc. (triangle ending too)

Allie and Nathan's cute family, Fiona and her interactions with Mike, Rosemary and the newspaper thing, flirty Molly and Bill

The Canfield family! I adored them they are so sweet and I really hope we see more of them next season!

Nathan and Allie

Nathan and Allie's adoption also the Canfields

Joesphs family and the return of faith to Hope valley! I also loved Lee and Rosemary’s relationship.

Lee and Rosemary were my favorites. I basically watched this entire season for them and Nathan and Allie. Ned and Florence were fun to watch as well.

Ned and Florence and the Canfields

Carson and Faith's conflict was honestly really compelling to me, and I'm fine with Carson leaving as well. The theme of calling was also really good in my opinion. I also loved Rosemary in general. She's my favorite character and I love watching her grow throughout the whole show.

I was very happy to see more representation on screen. The Canfields brought representation for POC and people who are blind. I would like to see more diversity in the cast.

I really liked the Canfields. They brought a nice dynamic to the show. As always, Rosemary and Lee were my favorites. As far as I'm concerned, they're the heart and soul of the show. Ned and Florence's wedding was nice too.

The Canfields. Lee & Rosie and Rachel. Henry and his son. Bill & Molly. Ned & Florence. Mike & Fiona.

Everything except the love triangle! The love triangle was one of the worst things I've seen on television (even before the finale). Everything but the love triangle was better than anything we've gotten since season four. Christopher, Henry, and Rachel were my favorites of the season. Loved all the stuff surrounding those characters. Also Fiona and Mike are really becoming great!

Allie & Robert

Allie's adoption was finalized.

Mike and Fiona

Triangle Clara and Jesse faith becoming a doctor Nathan adopting ally Elizabeth’s book Lucas and Elizabeth  kiss

Nothing. It made me mad.

Nothing

Nathan and Allie, Henry and Christopher.

Nathan and Allie

Rosemary — and Lee.  But the season writing was not good - need more dramatic things happening like - in past seasons.  It was almost goofy dialogue- the Fiona barber shop thing was stupid too — boring!  What happened to the blacksmith that liked her????

Canfield’s, FloYo wedding

Allie and Nathan

I loved the fact that Rosemary was patient with Elizabeth even though she didn’t deserve to be treated like she was by her.

More episodes

Glad to see Elizabeth be happy, at least for now. Also they have a number of different story lines that they can play with and help some other characters share the limelight, like Lee and Rosemary

The Canfields

fiona

Nathan and Allie

Aside from the gutsy decision to go with the less outwardly popular pairing? (I applaud it) I loved the new characters (Canfields/Christopher not Rachel) and seeing more of Nathan and Lucas outside of the triangle

Seeing Nathan get set free from his guilt and finding his voice to declare his love to Elizabeth and watching Elizabeth always pursuing him. After loving Elizabeth so much, it is not right to try to set him up with someone else.

Learning more about Henry and watching Florence and Ned get married!!

Nathan Grant

The Canfields

Fiona is a fabulous character, I really enjoy the dynamic she has brought to the valley.   I have always loved Mike, so those two are always a joy.  Always love Lee and Rosemary.  Nathan and Allie.  Bill and Molly, Florence and Ned.  Robert.  

The multiple storyline being dived into more

Lucas

Not able to come up with a positive answer at this point.

The Canfields, the angst of the love triangle - it felt more realistic then this show has in the past, with people making mistakes and trying to find their way.  For anyone who has ever had strong feelings for two people at the same time, there was a realism in the way the writers handled it with the shifting feelings, the questions about what and who is right, the missteps and the emotional angst.  The last two scenes of the finale (writers, actors, setting, humor) were pure magic.   Oh yeah  - Ned and Florence!!

Watching anything with Nathan and Allie

The Canfields

Scenes between Elizabeth and Nathan

Nathan/Allie relationship and her adoption

Not much

Rosemary starting the newspaper!!!!

Ned and Florence, Allie and Nathan

Lucas

Lucas and Elizabeth

I loved everything having to do with Nathan and Allie.  I just wanted E and N together and to join their families into one. It would have been beautiful.

Seeing Nathan and Allie's relationship deepen

Not much, it was all over the place. I can't believe how much I've come to dislike the main character.

Not much. It has gone on a different path.

The Canfields

The Canfields were lovely, Bill was better-written, Henry had amazing scenes.

Nothing

Lee & Rosemary.  Looking over your lists of major/minor storylines, I realized I didn't really enjoy any of those storylines. But I always enjoy when Lee and Rosemary are on screen.

Allie and Nathan

Nothing, the finale ruined the whole season.

I loved the Canfields. Always love Rosie and Lee scenes. I am enjoying that the show is becoming more of an ensemble rather than focusing on just a few main characters.

I loved the addition of the Canfields.

Nathan and Allie.

The Canfield and the new side they brought

Nathan and Allie. Canfields.

Nathan

Chemistry between Nathan and Elizabeth

Nathan and Ally

Disappointed

Nathan and Allie, Bill being Bill, FloYo, Henry, The Canfields

Disappointed

Elizabeth choosing Lucas in the end.

Nathan with Allie

To me each character was given the chance to grow and was able to work on things in their life.  I enjoyed the new writing. It made the show better to me.

Bill and Molly. They were so cute. And new characters/family.

Rosemary’s journey to find a new hobby

Canfield family

Fiona, the Canfield, Nathan & Allie

Lee and rosemary and the Canfields

Nathan and Elizabeth chemistry

The Canfields, Fiona and Lee and  Rosemary

The Canfield's and Rosemary

End of season.

Honestly, Allie's scene at Nathan's inquiry was the best thing of the season. I loved all their story lines, I'm ready for a whole season about them.

Most of it except the last episode.

the characters of Nathan and Allie

Ned & Florence

Nothing

The build up to her choosing Nathan... oh wait.

Fiona I love, Lee and Rosemary I love always

the canfields and nathan and allie

Rosemary and Lee's story line.

Not much.

Nathan's nobility, Ally, Ned and Flo, and the Canfields, especially their faith aspect.

I still think the last scene of the second episode was the strongest scene this show has ever got.

The Grant Family.

I really loved the additional episodes and hope they approve at least the same number or more next season.

Lucas and Elizabeth dates Clara and Jessie’s struggles the barbershop opening and Lucas and Elizabeth kissing and her finally choosing him.

Ned and Florence's romance and wedding. Nathan and Allie, the Canfields.

ned & Florence,  the end of the triangle, robert at the babysitter, Canfield life lessons

Nathan adopting Allie and everything about their relationship, hearing Henry talk about Abigail, seeing Ned & Florence come together, cute Robert becoming a part of "adult" Hope Valley, Lee & Rosemary doing absolutely anything.

Not Much Elizabeth is not a good character anymore.

Nathan and ally Ned and Florence Elizabeth and Lucas I’m glad the triangle is over and everyone can move forward with there lives

The Canfields! They were such a welcome addition. I also loved Florence, the Florence and Ned wedding, Elizabeth and Lucas as a couple. And this was a pretty good season for Henry! Happy to see Faith back too. I also appreciated that there were more storylines that lasted more than an episode or two and it felt like a coherent season. It wasn’t exactly fantastic, but I don’t expect that of When Calls the Heart and I quite liked the season overall.

The addition of the Canfields.

Nathan and Allie

What did you miss this season?  What could there have been more of?

Common sense

Lee and Rosemary!  Not enough of them.

Dates with Nathan

Nice Elizabeth

Um...more Henrigail.

Emotion. I feel like other than the stuff with Nathan and Elizabeth there were no other instances of real raw emotion

A Kevin McGarry shirtless scene. Also I missed Bill. I felt like he had very little to do this year.

Elizabeth getting called on her shitty behavior

Deeper story lines

Lee and Rosemary

I did wish Allie had called Nathan dad at least once

That they dropped the ball on Rosie wanting a child

I think Lee and Rosemary could have gotten where they ended up in the season finale half way through the season. I think that would have been nice.

Nathan x Elizabeth. She didn’t even have a rain check dinner she promised him.

More of Jack Sr Mentions, but also Elizabeth not hiding what she is really feeling

Nathan and Elizabeth and their little family with Allie and Jack. I will never forgive the robbery of such happiness.

The kids in the schoolhouse.

Little Jack, more of the kids, school, L and R

more time spent on few stories - too much jumping around and not enough substance

more time with the individual characters, fewer chopped up plots

Elizbeth acting as a mother first.  She should be concerned who would be an outstanding father/role model for Jack.

A date between Elizabeth and Nathan

Nathan and Elizabeth actually getting together.

Reality.

We needed more Lee and Rosemary, and I really missed the kids bc of Covid.

Some common sense maybe??? A good ending to the season maybe???

better writing and the Elizabeth that left everything she knew to make her way in a new place.

Heart warming wholesome moments. They were few and far between.

More school scenes

Interaction with little Ja  CB k

The kids. I missed Opal.

More schoolhouse scenes

More Bill, Rosemary, Lee, Molly, Henry

Substance.

I missed Lee & Rosemary! It felt like they barely got screen time. And then truly if Elizabeth & Lucas were going to end up together I would have liked to see their actual love story build, instead of her dating him while staring at Nathan the whole time, which is what we got.

More Rosemary and Lee; them adopting or having a baby

But lightheartedness. The whole season just felt stressful and misleading

Truth I missed Elizabeth and Nathan flirting.

Opal!! I feel like we needed another girls sleepover night or camping trip. It feels like we barely saw the kids aside from Allie crushing on Robert. There were no festivals or fairs. It was a bland summer for the kids.

Nathan finding happiness with Elizabeth.

Nothing really

Rosemary having a baby, Henry with oil business, jack and Lucas scenes, faith working in the infirmary , Elizabeth’s book .

Nathan

They dropped Nathan's chances at being with Elizabeth after he cried out his love for her and we should have seen him get more of a chance. Really wanted to see Allie more and less of Elizabeth. Hoped to see more of Fiona, too as she is comical playing off Hickam. Show really veered off course-[ writers kind of dropped stuff in and out on a whim and I thought the show lacked connection between storys and characters over time. Lots of whiplash- Canfields just moved in to a cabin then almost immediately sold it. Rachel was dropped in then all of a sudden leaves to celebrate a birthday. All of a sudden newlywed Ned applies for a bandaid patent! What the hell???

Better writing.

I didn’t miss anything. More of the hope valley children

Some type of villain. There was no crisis, no major overarching storyline aside from the love triangle. It overtook the whole season. Thought I was watching The Bachelorette for a second.

The love triangle was set up to bring Elizabeth and Nathan together - and don’t tell me they weren’t in love, Brian Bird, you literally spend 3 seasons showing them getting closer, feeling physically affected by being around each other, protecting each other, and becoming more open and you literally had Elizabeth seek him out and draw him in over and over again, getting closer to Allie as a mother figure in the process. Don’t tell me that’s not what a woman in love does for someone she loves, both romantically and deeply. And no resolution for ALLIE: Elizabeth telling Nathan to pass a message to Allie in that rejection scene, not even seeking Allie out to apologize? Is that somehow supposed to make that little girl feel better?! Treating Allie, her beloved student, like some insignificant afterthought, after everything Allie’s been through, just because she realized she’s in love with Lucas? Unbelievable. So yeah, sorry not sorry but I’m sore and pissed off, I feel manipulated and I’m angry. I did not buy Elizabeth’s sudden desperation to find Lucas, I did not buy that kiss or that she would want to spend a lifetime with him. The storyline literally did not support this ending at all. Even if I did want Elizabeth with Lucas I would feel shafted because their interactions were so damn surface-level the entire season. Here’s a replica of Elizabeth and Lucas’s backyard date conversation:  Elizabeth: *wears a saloon-worthy, not flattering, potentially scandalous dress*  Lucas: Did I tell you how beautiful you look tonight?  Elizabeth: yeah you mentioned it a few times  Lucas: do you know how happy I am to be with you?  Elizabeth: yeah...you said. Me too I guess. Oh and by the way, sorry about baby Jack, sorry he exists, and that we had to have dinner in my backyard  Lucas: leave the dishes, I’ll have Gustave my slave come and collect them. Tonight should be about us  Elizabeth: ... *crickets* *light hand holding*

So for season 8? I wanted more of Nathan and Elizabeth getting together I guess.

Obviously I am bummed about the lack of a baby Coulter this season, but the interview with Kavan & Pascale has made me hopeful it will happen next season. Even with the lack of a baby for them, I was disappointed with the whole Rachel thing because they barely spent any time "parenting her". She spent more time with Christopher that we saw on screen than she did with either Lee or Rosemary, and every scene they were in together was pretty much spoiled in the trailer for that episode, so that was a let down for me. I would have liked to see them actually spend some time with her or watch them struggle with parenting her. I always want more of them in general too, but I do feel like they got pushed to the side this season to make room for the triangle and other stories to play out. I'm really hoping for more of them next season, especially as it seems as though their journey to parenthood is finally in the cards. I also would have liked to see more of the HV kids this season, I did enjoy most of the scenes with the kids.

Elizabeth and the school children.

Rosemary and Lee were tired and wasted for most of the season, needed more of their fun. School scenes - I wish they would’ve tried to do something outside. More stories that weren’t romance. (And you didn’t ask but I could use way less of Elizabeth dramatically stopping and gasping.)

Kid scenes. There could be more kid scenes and unlikely interactions among all the main cast.

Elizabeth at least giving a chance to Nathan

There could’ve been more good and consistent storytelling lmao

Little Jack

Drop the triangle mid way and let the focus go back to HV

More time for Elizabeth to grieve and process. Would have loved to see her more in her role as a mother.

More Nathan and Elizabeth. It felt like they never gave Nathan a chance.

Nathan and Elizabeth going to dinner and spending time together.

More development for Lucas would have been really nice. Not that he wasn't present enough, but I feel like he took a back seat for his character development, growth, insight, etc. Also, if they focused on him more, especially in relation to Elizabeth, her choice would've made more sense to me.

I missed a certain simplicity which was evident in other seasons. I often felt that there was too much going on and that weakened the storylines since there was only so much time for each one.

More focus on the other characters and less on the love triangle.

Gah, so much screentime was wasted on the love triangle. I miss the time we could have gotten exploring other stories.

Better story telling.  It was boring, frankly

Elizabeth interacting  a lot with Little Jack and falling in love with Nathan like it should have been.

Mike and Fiona. I hated that she was gone for so long.

The magic that we saw in the earlier seasons. It’s too far from the books. They should have just replaced Jacks character with another actor.

More in depth storylines

Better writing.

Continuity

Good story lines, more  serious stories - less fluff / silly stories, —-and Elizabeth - disappointed in her decision— and where the show is going with her character. Acting is just limited to not engaging with the characters ....dialogue not deep enough.

The kids and school scenes. Covid, I know, but I did miss them!

Not sure!!

Not much comes to mind

Meaningful stuff for the Coulters

Rosemary and Elizabeth

Missed the Teacher Elizabeth scenes

There could have been some more opportunities to see Nathan have a chance to pursue Elizabeth. There could have been more of Elizabeth taking her own advice to drop her fears (of marrying another mountie) in order to allow Nathan to shine for himself. They did have chemistry. I wish I would have seen LESS of Lucas trying to charm Elizabeth with extravagant gifts and the extremely unrealistic scenarios he created to win her heart (so many candles, so many lanterns in the sky, etc.)

More Lee/Rosemary family focus

Nathan actually having a chance to prove himself to Elizabeth

Oh, that is a hard one to answer right now, it might come off as bitter.  Actual consistency to ensure the past 3 years hasn't felt like it has been for nothing.  Clarity around some of the characters and their choices (and I am not just talking about the triangle), respect for the characters in the writing.  Need I go on.  

As cheesy as it is to say, more heartfelt moments. Because they did so much, felt as though I couldn't appreciate singular storyline as in depth as I normally do

Lee and Rosemary

No answer

a baby for the Coulters, missed the kids and little Jack but I get why

Rational writing

I miss the short story arcs where they focus on a few characters and tell a complete story in one or two episodes instead of having every character’s story stretch out for the whole season.

Depth of conversation

More Rosemary and Lee

Better writing

More school time with Elizabeth and.her students, but I understand the restrictions.

More harmony, there was so much conflict!

Josie Bassett as a love interest for Bill

I wish Rosemary would have found out she was pregnant Elizabeth would have made her choice when she and Lucas were in the rain and Jesse and Clara wouldn’t have had problems

Not enough screentime for our main character Elizabeth. Things havent been centered around her for a long time and I dont think that will ever change. More heart to heart conversations that are actually real and meaningful without being cringey and forced.  The show also never replaced the vacancy of Abigail's character. She was the glue that held the whole town together and offered sound advice. We dont have anyone like that anymore

I missed story lines with the school children.

gee, i dont know, ACTUAL PLOT?

Meaningful scenes for Jesse and Clara, Lee and Rosemary, and possibly Fiona.

The storylines were awful ad choppy.  

I missed the triangle that was supposed to play out.  Instead we got Elizabeth dating one man and choosing to be with that man in the finale.

Need a better writer

Intelligent dialogue with meaning and substance.  Written for an 5 yr. old.

Smart characters

More Rosie and Lee scenes

Always more Henry.

I would have liked to see someone care about Nathan. I wish he'd interacted with more people and not just in his role as mountie; same with Allie. I want to see her have more adult female support instead of just Elizabeth.

The school

Elizabeth and Nathan

Actual dates between Nathan and Elzaibeth

Kids

Elizabeth and Nathan

More Lee and Rosemary. There could have also been more completed storylines they honestly made so much cut short or unclear.

Elizabeth and nathan

it's all good.

Should have been more depth for Lucas with Elizabeth

More of actually giving Nathan a chance instead of constantly pushing him away. It wasn't really a love triangle.

Character development

better writing

I wish there was more Lee & Rosemary.

Heartwarming wholesome stories

Are you kidding?

More development of Nathan's character

Development of Nathan's character

Abigail

As I said earlier, I think they could have dug deeper into the adoption/ biological father of Allie, because it would have been a lot more interesting than some out of the blue story lines (Coff coff Jesse's and Clara's money coff coff)

Seeing Nathan and Elizabeth on a real date.  

a smoother transition to succeed in understanding the final choice of this false love triangle

Bill & Molly comical scenes

Anyone and everyone other than this triangle.

Broken storylines. What was the point of Allie’s dad? The Pinkertons? Wyman? Mentioning Abigail? Even Rachel and Christopher if they never return to HV? I get cliffhangers but they dropped stories or made storylines feel pointless.

the children

Interaction and actual dates with Nathan and Elizabeth where she got to know him so she didn't think of him as Jack 2.0.

A better sense of community.

Everything that Alfonso Moreno did: a clear, focused, measured, believable story arc.

Nathan and Elizabeth to be given a chance. More logic and less crazy, in what universe does the writing of the finale make ANY sense.

I missed seeing any thought process in the writing....To late for anything more.

I would love to see a little more action and adventure or maybe a mystery

Missed the well written story telling like Moreno's.Tinker and producer's lack of integrity to mislead and get fans fight against each other, instead of building a good story to justify why the choice was made at the end.

I missed Jesse & Clara being happy.  I always miss Abigail. I missed Faith & Carson in sync. i missed the romance I anticipated between Elizabeth & Nathan.

The essence of Hope Valley is gone. Less focus on the love triangle more about other characters, family community. Elizabeth is not NICE

Though they never tend to be my favourite storylines, I actually missed being in the classroom more.

Could have done with more Canfield family stuff.

I know she was there, but it didn’t feel like there was enough Rosemary (never is tbh).

I always want more of the Florence and Fiona friendship specifically, as well as all of the female friendships. There were some lovely moments this season, but I’d still like more.

I understand they rushed the resolution so they could save it for the finale, but I would have preferred way more of Elizabeth and Nathan each dealing with Jack’s death and more time spent on settling their feelings for each other.

I wanted more of Rosemary and Lee's story with infertility. I'm pretty neutral on this season.

Journaling

What do you hope to see in season 9?

🤷‍♀️

Maybe but only if they make Nathan a main character the same as Elizabeth

Kindness

Henrigail. I'm copying and pasting at this point.

More of the kids!!

Lee and Rosemary having a child! More Henry! And a Kevin McGarry shirtless scene, lol.

Absolutely nothing

Better story lines

More stories for all the cast

more stories that involved multiple characters (and characters that don’t interact as much to interact/form new and unique relationships)

I won't be watching Season 9.

An apology from TPTB.

Lucas true dark and evil side

Nothing. I’m not watching blasphemy.

Lee and Rosemary become parents. A fun new love interest for Nathan. Mike and Fiona dating.

For it not to happen. Take me back to season 7 ending

new love and adventures for Nathan, a baby for Lee and Rosemary, fun and challenging love for Elizabeth and Lucas

Honesty, no more bait and switch just for ratings

I won't watch it.  After 8 seasons it sickened me to see Lucas as the pick when he is not a father figure or role model.  So unlike a moral mother to not look at a person's interaction with your child first when choosing a partner.  

Less scenes between Elizabeth and Lucas since she found her love focus the season on Nathan finding his

Nathan and Elizabeth actually getting together.

Nothing. I'm moving on to greener pastures.

I would like to see Rosemary and Lee finally have a baby or adopt, Elizabeth and Lucas break up or just leave town so I don’t have to watch them make out, Nathan find a better love, and Lee as mayor take on Wyman Walden and the Pinkertons.

Elizabeth realizing that she actually loves Nathan and Lee and rosemary surprise pregnancy or adoption.

I do not care what happens.  

Elizabeth/writers/ producers realizing they are incredibly stupid. Apologizing and Nathan NOT taking her back. She needs to be alone and probably miserable. I think that’s what the show and she deserves. They’ve ruined it. I’m gone.

Less soap opera

No more triangles

Nathan finds true love. Allie getting an amazing Mother. The Canfield's (every minute of every Canfield). Rosemary and Lee. Bill and Molly. Clara and Jesse maturing. Every minute of Nathan and Allie. The kids. Ned and Florence enjoying married life and seeing him strike it rich. Lee for Mayor. Henry coming back. Mike and Fiona. Faith being a Doctor.

Healing and happiness for Nathan after getting smacked around in Season 8

A baby for Rosemary and Lee, Henry and Abigail to return together, Carson to come back and propose to Faith because she obviously does love him and want him to stay, an amazing newcomer to fall head over heels for Nathan

A cohesive storyline!

Rosemary and Lee have a baby

The whole season just felt stressful and misleading

Allie and Nathan prominence in the community and storylines. Lucas and Elizabeth to go on an extended international book tour.

Lee and Rosemary having kids finally!!!! Mayor election!

I won't be watching anymore.

A storyline that doesn't screw Nathan over.  Rosemary/Lee blessed with a family. Less Elizabeth/Lucas kissing scenes. More focus on other characters.

Rosemary pregnant,faith and Nathan getting closer, more of Nathan being a Mountie,jack and Lucas bonding, Lucas and Elizabeth dates and kissing , Lucas proposing .

Nathan

I already cancelled Hallmark first thing this morning. The writers and showrunners have no credibility for me any longer, and I did not make my decision based on the triangle alone.

More focus on characters not named Elizabeth.

Henry and Abigail  rosemarys paper lee for mayor Elizabeth and Lucas getting closer Nathan finding someone

I want Henry and Abigail to come back and see how that relationship plays out. I like the show but what got me excited was there relationship. Love enemies to lovers stories play out. I also hope they bring back Lori. Though she definitely does not need to be such a huge part of the show as she once was.  

NOT Faith with Nathan.

Minnie Canfield becoming more a part of the town community with her fabulous boldness and integrity. I really love her.

Allie and Nathan having some incredible adoptive father-daughter laughter and tears moments, like her teasing him, him teasing her, and them going on trips together, just ALL Nathan and Allie. They deserve a spin-off. They are a great father-daughter love story. Way better than the romantic one.

Elizabeth and Lucas go on a very long trip to Europe together and season 9 is all about Hope Valley without them.

Fiona doing everything she does with boldness and fun, cause she is fantastic. Fiona getting into some real schemes!

Henry brings Abigail back.

First and foremost a little Coulter. I'll be interested to see how Rosemary's paper and hopefully Mayor Lee are doing haha. Definitely more of the friendship b/w the women, I love Florence & Molly as well as Fiona & Clara & Faith. More Nathan & Allie, and hopefully Nathan enjoying himself and meeting someone new. More of the Canfields.

Better writing

Less stressful situations. Mr. Canfield becoming the town's preacher. So happy that Hope Valley will have a preacher. Someone the town people can go to with their problems. Only good can come from putting faith back into the show. Thank you.

Henry and Abigail in some form; Rosemary being a tenacious journalist; real relationship  work and personalities for Jesse and Clara; a fun mayoral race; the town coming together again for important things unlike the complete lack of momentum this season from Jesse being lost or the rig exploding; and just get rid of Faith. Bring back Dottie or something.

Nathan and Allie, Nathan Nathan and Elizabeth’s friendship, Nathan and Lucas getting along, Nathan moving on from Elizabeth, Lee and Rosemary talk about kids, and more Canfields.

A well-written storyline for Nathan, not him just as a background town mountie popping if needed sometimes

more happiness!!! Obv I still want drama but also it’s my comfort show so I just want to watch it and not be yelling at Elizabeth and other characters the whole time lol.

Elizabeth and Nathan - together!

Less commercials

Won’t be watching, but best wishes to the show!

I would like to see Abigail return, and have Lee and  Rosemary somehow have a kid, though I’m not confident that either of those things will happen. I’m not sure if I’ll tune into season 9, we’ll see.

Rosemary and Lee finally starting a family, and for anything good to happen to Nathan whether it's above interest or something else. He suffered this season, he deserves good things to come his way.

I hope to see more character development. I would especially like to learn more about Nathan and Lucas now that the decision is made. I want them to be more than suitors for Elizabeth. I would also like to see them become friends. If Nathan must have a love interest, I would be interested in a woman of color being casted for the role. Also, even though it would be nice to see Rosemary and Lee have a baby, I think it would be really interesting to have them adopt a child or two (siblings).

Up until a little while ago, I was very opposed to the thought of Abigail returning. I wouldn't put it past them, and if Gowan isn't gone forever, it could be an interesting plot. (She would need to take on a less involved role, and not sure Loughlin would agree with that)

I want Henry back (don't care if it's with or without Abigail). Lee & Rosie to have a baby (don't care how). Nathan (& Allie) to have a good storyline and to be happy.

I just want to see Lucas and Elizabeth break up. I cannot hammer home enough how painful that final scene was. If this is how their relationship is going to be, I'm barely going to survive.

Abigail

Elizabeth comes to realize she is indeed in love with Nathan when she sees how taken Little Jack is with him.  Little Jack never warms up to Lucas...ever.

I’m not watching, so I don’t care.

Henry’s happiness ally and Nathan scenes more Elizabeth and Lucas dating and an  engagement   and nick ham oil buisness

It should be the last season. The writers deserve to be unemployed for taking the series to this point.

Not watching season 9

Don’t care.

Nothing

Elizabeth - goes to Nathan — bring up happy with Lucas —- so they can be together (hey, they guy had more emotion than Lucas !!

I’ll wait to watch. Follow along on social media to make sure they don’t massacre any other storylines first.

Elizabeth and Lucas break up

Nathan to find his true love and Rosemary and Lee to start a family.

Elizabeth and Lucas to be married, Rosemary and Lee addressing the baby question and what happens with Henry trying to start with a clean slate

Better plotlines for the Coulters and the return of Henry

Henry and Abigail

A continuation of the stories already set up.

The survey did not give me an opportunity to say that Nathan needs to STILL get together with Elizabeth, so I had to pick someone else. The survey should be designed so that I do NOT have to pick an answer that I do NOT believe in. I hope that the writers will realize that they set up a story, especially at the end of season 7 and in 8 where it looked liked they were setting up Nathan as Elizabeth’s choice. Her choice of Lucas makes me wonder if she is only responding to the “temptation” she feels around Lucas. (He tells her,  It is not a date, but if it were a date and he lightly touches her hand...This is duplicitous behavior!) Elizabeth and Nathan have tough conversations about real life and they have the kind of relationship that is very healthy for a long term marriage. ...Frankly, I CANNOT watch a “romance” develop between Lucas and Elizabeth. They might have a similar interest in literature, but the inside character and values of each of them are very different. Elizabeth only needed a little opportunity once Nathan was free of guilt to give him a chance to win over the “romantic” side of her heart.

Lee and Rosemary adopting a child!

For Elizabeth to dump Lucas or for Nathan to meet someone new who will really value him and let him in

I am not sure if I will be watching season 9 as yet.  I need to figure out if I can get past the finale first...  It took me over a year to come back after Jack's death and with the way the finale has disrespected the past 3 seasons, I don't know if I have it in me.  I want to, I just don't know if I can.

Still on fence about watching it

Wholesome cast

Do not really care.

a baby for the Coulters, the development of the relationship between Elizabeth, little Jack and Lucas, the story of Nathan's journey to love,  a challenge the community has to face together,  a love interest for Fiona, the development of the Canfields.  No more Bill and Molly.  I love Bill's character - especially the role he has in Elizabeth and little Jack's life - and Molly is fine too, but I don't see any chemistry there.

Nathan becoming more popular than Elizabeth

I want a happy ending for Nathan and Allie.

N/a

Only the new adventures of Nathan, Allie, Rosemary, Lee, the Canfields, Bill and Molly, Florence and Ned and the return of Henry.

No interest in watching 9

I hope the mayoral race is fill of humor and not contention.

Whatever they write

Mike and fionas business Rosemary pregnant Nathan and Lucas are friends Elizabeth’s book is released maybe a baby for Clara Nathan and faith together ally and Robert together  Henry returns Lucas and jack bonding Elizabeth continue to teach and Lucas proposing

I wont be watching to find out, but some respect for Nathan and Allie, and Rosemary and Lee.  I have an inkling that Rose and Lee are going to be screwed over next.  Hopefully E and L just break up randomly bc idk how anyone could sit through the show and watch them together. It's disturbing

I'm not sure of the year anymore, but the Spanish Flu should be showing up any day. I have a list of characters that could fall victim.... let's start with Elizabeth.

less kissing

Better writing, less pair-the-spares, more focus on relationships and less on interpersonal drama.

More Nathan

More Lee and Rosemary.  Nathan getting a storyline instead of being a punching bag.

No

Not going to watch it.

Not watching

Rosie and Lee having a family of their own either by adoption or pregnancy.

Increased focus on entire ensemble.

I won't watch season 9, but I hope that they finally give Nathan and Allie happiness. I hope Allie calls him dad, and that she gets her own horse, and I wish that Elizabeth would just leave them both alone now. I hope that whoever they do pair Nathan with loves and appreciates him for who he is, and loves Allie, and puts them above everyone else. Bonus points if whoever she is tells Elizabeth to back the hell off at some point!

More of Nathan

Nothing

Not watching

Break up of Elizabeth and Lucas

Don't care not watching anymore

More action and real suspense.

Don't care not watching anymore

Lucas and Elizabeth getting married.

Meaningful conversations between E & L; Nathan being Allie's dad/Allie supporting him through his loss of Elizabeth; Hopefully Elizabeth, Lucas, and Nathan can still be friends.

Continued better writing and character growth.

More of Nathan. I really like his character. I want more of his past and what has shaped him. I want to see his honest and noble character.

More challenging life experiences; give Fiona more prominence ... perhaps as a stringer for Rosemary’s paper; Jesse develop some character.

better more coherent writing

Henry back

I don’t care. I’m no longer a viewer after this season.

Elizabeth realizing Nathan is the one and Nathan rejecting her the whole season, having another serious love interest but forgiving her for her bad choice at the end

More emotion from Nathan . A chance in Elizabeth

Elizabeth realizing she made a mistake

Many interesting stories

Lee and Rosemary getting back on their "parenting issues" the whole Rachel thing was put in and taken away way too soon? There were a lot of things thrown in this season just for something to do, and at this point, since Nathan is still the mountie...more proper mounties storylines, like the investigation on the tampered oil, that was cool (maybe I should just switch to Murdoch's Mysteries XD)

Very little of Elizabeth and Lucas

Improved writing by then staff

see less of E and L and see more of the other characters , Nathan and Faith just become friends who console each other for their heartaches not a couple

Bill & Molly

I have no hope for season nine

Abigail come back as EP because obviously Erin is terrible at it. Kick Tinker to the curb and bring back season 1 showrunner. Bring back Julie and Cat Montgomery.

Abigail come back as EP because obviously Erin is terrible at it. Kick Tinker to the curb and bring back season 1 showrunner. Bring back Julie and Cat Montgomery.

less drama

Lee and Rosemary have a child.

I'm not very hopful.

Nathan and Ally moving on and eventually finding a family with a woman as selfless and noble as Nathan.

I don't even know, I'm just so angry and sad.

Don't Care , will not be watching..  I am finished with the Hallmark Channel  and anything Hallmark.

Just a continuation of the hopeful storylines and of course the romance

Faith being more in charge Ned and Florence being married lee running for mayor Elizabeth and Lucas engament jack growing ally and Robert and a baby for Clara

Focus on building a compelling beautiful story for Nathan; that his heart will heal. That he will fall in love with a new beautiful lady coming to town, which will be a deeper and more epic love that would have been with Elizabeth.  More storylines with Nathan and Allie; Rosemary and Lee to be parents.  Hope that writers and producers will not ruin Nathan's character and storyline. And do not pair Nathan with Faith nor Fiona.  Hope there will be less of Elizabeth and Lucas and focus on other characters.

more time spent on the storylines - not so many brief scenes

Nathan gets a love story as glorious as Elizabeth & Jack.

Will not be watching. This heartie is broken and lost hope.

Elizabeth engaged

Elizabeth and Lucas happy and in love. I hope we get plenty of Florence and she doesn’t fade into the background now that they gave her a romance. I’m also hoping for more of the Canfield family. Idk if there will be any progress on the Coulter family front, but I would like to see them adopt an older child or at least decide to sometime later this season. Nothing against them finding fulfillment without a child (I love a happy childless couple!), but it’s been established they want to be parents and it would be nice for them to do that as well. I do hope Henry comes back without Abigail! I’d miss Henry, but I don’t miss Abigail lol. I won’t be mad if she comes back, but I don’t want her either. Looking forward to whatever the season brings!

More story with the Canfields.

Don’t care

Any other comments?

I will only watch to support Kevin, Kayla, and Jaeda. Nathan was by far by favorite character on the show. Kevin McGarry deserves better than this decision and I hope that they will give his character more air time next season

Everybody calm down. There was nothing new, better, worse, different, or surprising about how this season was written/handled. We don't watch WTCH for it's sparkling dialogue and satisfying storylines. We hope for something showing decent people living good lives with faith and optimism, and they still manage to do that (and have finally brought back the "faith" part of this with the arrival of a new pastor) even if they screw the pooch with the details.

I understand why people were mad about the finale, but idk all this hate on IG us just rude and disrespectful to the crew

Team Nathan!

I cannot enjoy WCTH because it’s not remotely entertaining if you can’t trust you understanding of the story over time.

None

This was my first season watching live and despite the fallout from the triangle I had fun

Nothing I haven't or you haven't or the fandom hasn't already covered. I'm just disappointed in all the potential they threw out the window. I have zero trust in the PTB. They don't care about these characters.

I will pretend that the series finale was season 7. I don’t know how I will ever love the show like I used too. I’m too tired of the letdowns.

You’re the best, I’m so thankful you let us vent and give us sane, logical takes about this show. OH and all you Team Nathan people boycott the crap out of this show and maybe they will reverse their decision to Nathan on the love triangle. At these tank the ratings. You don’t owe the show runners anything for destroying this show.  

I truthfully haven't seen a single episode. Had it recorded and followed this blog and live viewing comments on the FB page. After hearing how everything went down in the last episode, I have absolutely no desire to watch the season. I could have forgiven Elizabeth for how she acted towards everyone if it was truly her working through her fears of being with another Mountie. But since that wasn't the case, I have a lot of dislike for her (and the writers) now.

Thanks for your blog. I appreciate it. There must be a reason for how this turned out. Although we we can't see it and will probably never know the answer. It suck

I was Team Nathan for a long time - pretty much two years.  I saw the writing on the wall when Lucas said he would wait and again when Elizabeth was resistant to moving forwarding with Nathan at so many steps along the way.  Even the hand holding post wedding seemed intentionally friend zone. And look on her face when she realized that she was acting with Nathan like she did with Jack, to me that was the end.  All the signs were there.  Some people were so routed in Nathan that they couldn't see another possibility.  I have opened my mind to Lucas because I love the show.  And you know what - it's not so bad in land of Lucas and Elizabeth.  For those who are devastated and done, maybe down the road, when you're feeling less heart broken, you might want to try going back and watching with a more open mind.  There is some pretty hot stuff there.  Because of my love for Nathan (and yes, I still love him!) I couldn't have said that a year ago. :)  

It's not because my guy didn't win the girl, but because this story is getting too much like a soap opera and in the case of that last love scene, a little trashy for a family show.

After next season I will look at the recap.  If you have changed Elizabeth's stupid decision I will watch again, if not, there are plenty of other shows to watch.

The love triangle wasn’t real in the true sense of the word since Elizabeth never went on a date with Nathan.

Brian Bird is a jerk.

I have never been so mad and sad  at the conclusion of a TV show..not really my personality.  BUT the chemistry between Nathan and Elizabeth was undeniable.  Nathan proved over three seasons to be his own unique character, and fans would not have labeled him as Jack 2.0.  There would have been plenty more stories to tell.  Now I think I am done watching.  The other characters are great, but the story is mostly Elizabeth’s....the way it was created and, in spite of Jack’s death, the way it has continued.  I honestly think the producers want a show that is going to last for a long, long time, so it needs to begin focusing on other characters.  And I also think that Nathan and Elizabeth would have been so great together that the spotlight would have stayed on them.  This would have wrecked the direction the producers want the show to go, but instead the show is just wrecked by a new formula that isn’t working.

What a relief that I can move on and actually feel so good about it. Yippee!

I was really enjoying this season, I thought they were doing really well and better than they ever have and then in the last episode it felt so rushed and thrown together without any thought!!! That ruined the entire season for me. I can’t even go back and watch it again because it’s all for nothing! It was so obvious that E was in love with N but just scared of her past, I was waiting for something to happen for her to realize. And maybe to see the quote that N gave her again. It seemed that L was just a rebound/distraction I didn’t see one ounce of affection from E toward L. And what about the bachelorette party? Didn’t that mean she was meant to be with N? And the touch in the library? They were portrayed as “sparks” but apparently it was mistaking him for Jack??? Come on, we are meant to believe that garbage??? There was none of those scenes with L, what love story are they talking about in the last scene? So many things! How can N say it was L all along when we saw zero evidence of that!

I’m finished with the show. I do not care to see how S9 plays out. They do not deserve my time after the complete disregard to viewers time and investment over the last 8 years. I am appalled at the reaction from Brian Bird and Chris McNally. I have never been so offended as a fan. I will not watch so they can send their rude tweets to the very few people that still watch their show. I’m DONE!!!

Disappointed in Elizabeth but think back to season 2 and how she led on Charles...no surprise with how she treated poor Nathan

I'm going to watch Season 9. Just skip over E's storylines. I now hate her.

Too many storylines this season, writers need to tighten it up. Love triangle was handled the worst possible way it could be handled.

This season was a disappointment unfortunately. And not only because of Elizabeth, but also because my favorite characters either weren’t a big enough part of the storyline or they just were so different from previous seasons.

I'm still so shocked at the outcome of this finale. It's even more egregious to me because they managed to ruin just about every character and it was so unnecessary. I wish they had Elizabeth choose Lucas in the first episode of this season that way they could have let them grow together while also letting Nathan begin to move on and Nathan and Lucas to begin a friendship. But they took it so far and raked everybody through the coals that I just can't imagine any of that happening right now in a realistic way. I think I'm the most upset because there is a world where I would have been fine with Elizabeth choosing Lucas. But they spent the whole season + prior seasons showing us that her love for Nathan was deeper, that there was more to explore there and that her time with Lucas was limited & she couldn't be with him because she kept thinking about Nathan (I don't care what any one says, that is what was done) that I couldn't even get into the relationship between Elizabeth & Lucas. Then at the last second went JK NOT THAT'S NOT WHAT WE WERE DOING AND YOU'RE STUPID FOR THINKING THAT! It's just so unbelievable.

Unsure if I will watch

Very disappointed with the finale.

They got it so wrong...

The love triangle was annoying and a straight line. Elizabeth was horribly written.  Nathan was screwed over. TeamNathan got screwed over.  I will still watch just to see what happens next.  I will not let Elizabeth/Lucas storyline ruin it for me.

The finale was my favorite episode of the series. I’m so happy they didn’t go down the same road  as jack with her picking Nathan .I love Nathan’s character as a Mountie but NOT with Elizabeth. I’m so looking forward to seeing her and Lucas as a happy in love couple I’m just so happy  and there kisses were so beautiful and passionate I couldn’t love them more.

They made the case for a beautiful love story between Nathan and elizabeth- not for Lucas and Elizabeth. The ending of that triangle was not believable for me. Kevin McGarry is a fabulous actor with tremendous range and seems to bring out the best in any scene partner he has had. He has always been believable in everything I have seen him in. He is a true leading man and they should be treating him better or he will/does not have to stay with the show. I am not trying to trash Chris McNally, but he is rather limited as an actor and looks almost wooden in some scenes. I can't always hear his dialogue because he speaks too low or too fast sometimes and he is not always believable for me- nice to look at, yes, but not the actor Kevin is. Maybe they partnered him with Erin so she could help him develop more. I love Allie, Rosemary, Henry, Bill, and Fiona and can see some great stories ahead for them if the writers don't screw things up. I would never be able to stomach Lori Loughlin and Abigail again, and I feel they will force her back on the fans next season. As evidenced by the love scenes in the finale, Hallmark is changing this show forever- it will be edgier, sexier and much less "Christian-based". Not sure if the Hearties will accept that. I don't really care anymore as I am no longer supporting Hallmark channel. Don't like the mess they made this season, or many of the changes made in their movies of late. I have found myself tuning out a great deal. I hope people like Kevin McGarry, Jaeda, Kayla Wallace and Pascale are seen i other non-Hallmark projects so I can enjoy seeing their work. Really disenchanted with Erin Krakow's performances of late.

Thanks for all the work you do running this blog!

I’m very happy with this season I will continue watching as long as it continues. Does anyone here watch new Amsterdam tv series?

Love that they took characters who are always in the background and gave them actual storylines.

I think I’m in the anger phase of grieving. I’m sorry if the answers cause a reopening of wounds but it feels right to me to call them on their shit by voicing the injustice of treating your viewers this way. These writers just told the laziest, quickest, ficklest (?) “love story” I have ever seen, EVER.

Thank you so much for everything you've done this past season! I really enjoy your blog and your insights on the show as well.

There can be a conflict with women owning business (no offense) and other women in the show working and having families. Please keep the show from becoming so feminist. Please retain some strong men.

Thanks for the survey!

I hope season 9 explains things and or finishes plots left behind in season 8.

That ending really just made no sense at all..what was the point of the whole season before it?!

Nope!

Terribly written finale. So rushed and smacked together. Yuck

Sigh... it really was a letdown after it seemed that all the signs were pointing to Elizabeth facing her fears and accepting the love of Nathan and loving him in return and them being one big, happy family.

This was my first season watching WCTH in years (since like season 2), so I’m glad I wasn’t too invested just to be disappointed in the end with the decision Elizabeth made.

I hate that Elizabeth used to be my favorite character to the point of seeing myself in her, but now I really dislike her. On the bright side, at least I've grown to love Rosemary enough for her to be my new favorite!

I think the writers need to listen to their audience and work to smooth out this bumpy season. I hope the writers are more selective with the storylines they choose so that those arcs can be fully developed. For example, Jesse being missing in the last two episodes was mishandled in my opinion. So few people cared that he was gone and I don't think the writers even fully explained what happened to him.

So glad the triangle is over, and I hope we never see anything like it for anyone else again.

Overall I liked this season (except the love triangle stuff) but I don't know if it will be enough to keep me watching. Guess I'll have to see how season 9 plays out.

I'm glad Carson is gone lmao. I'd be pretty happy if I never saw him again. Henry better be back. Lucas and Elizabeth can move to Hamilton...seriously. Baby Jack deserves a more attentive and present mother. But honestly, keep Carson away & write Lucas and Elizabeth off and I'd be DELIGHTED and actually stoked for season 9.

The stories are lame.  I want more Lee and Rosemary.  I did not like Christopher/Rachel.  And, why are they doing with Henry?  It’s all confusing.

Please consider reversing Elizabeth's choice. She and Nathan look so good together.  Lucas is too lecherous looking in my opinion.

I wonder if Rachel will return will Lucas and Nathan become friends?

The season sucked! The writing was poor and there really wasn’t a triangle. They misled and lied to the viewers. It would have been easier to accept Elizabeth’s decision if we saw her date both men and see how it worked out with each of them. The writers never gave Nathan the opportunity but instead used him as a punching bag the whole season.

I can’t even bear to rewatch any of the seasons after that ending. I’m so glad I didn’t preorder the season—and I’ve canceled my HM subscription.

Get new writers!

I was for either guy at the beginning of the season. All they had to do was show me the love story. They didn’t do that.

The choice of Lucas was ridiculous. Will no longer watch the show. I’m very sad.

If you are going to have Elizabeth and Lucus in a relationship I would hope that you would work on him becoming more child friendly. If he doesn’t accept little Jack then he doesn’t deserve Elizabeth. They are a package deal.

Love the show. I think people that threaten to stop watching because “Team Nathan” are just bellyaching and will wind up watching it again just to have something to grouse about. It’s just a TV show, people. If it always goes the way you want you’ll just complain that the writing is getting stale!

love your blog

Extremely disappointed with this season. Will no longer watch.

No

This season felt like it was perfectly setting up for the next. It felt like a lot of new beginnings were being set up leaving us ready to explore.

I’m personally Team Lucas so I’ve been happy with the decision but I actually think if Nathan had “won” it would have been more interesting for Lucas in s9 so actually think Nathan as a character will have a better, more interesting s9

I said the season was good and the writing was, but I will clarify that the finale TOTALLY ruined the underlying track that was being built up for Elizabeth to choose Nathan. I don’t believe that the script writers gave Nathan the chance that they gave Lucas. Elizabeth grilled him to try to find him guilty of wrong, but Lucas had a number of shady deals that reveal poor character and Elizabeth did not find out about those and have a chance to grill him. If she knew those things, would she still be choosing him? Elizabeth was allowed to be “charmed” by his superficial lifestyle and empty promises. Because of Lucas’s shady dealings, he and Elizabeth almost got killed in the saloon. Later, he said he would never let anything happen to her. Nathan was the one who saved Elizabeth and Nathan’s life in that scene. Lucas is a talker with empty promises and Nathan is the one who actually rescued Elizabeth from Lucas’s bad deeds. The ending of Season 8, Episode 12 is NOT even logical. She needed someone like Nathan to protect her from Lucas. If this is REALLY who Elizabeth is, I don’t want to watch her. She does not follow her own advice. Once Lucas’s full character is revealed, we would only have to watch her get hurt over and over.. I CANNOT watch an Elizabeth and Lucas love story. The writers should not be biased against Nathan just because he was a Mountie. He should be seen for himself. Also, if Elizabeth cannot love Nathan because he might get killed this is not a strong enough reason. Lucas could get killed. She told Ned that he could miss the joy if he didn’t go thru with his wedding with Florence. This should have indicated that she would get over her own fears so that she could experience joy with Nathan.

I truly hope everyone gets to the end of season 9 and is pleasantly surprised.  It is the eternal optimist in me, but I would love to see getting there and being unable to imaging things being any other way, despite the heartbreak we all feel for the series right now.  As I mentioned, I have my doubts, however am trying very, very hard to keep an open mind.

I hated the way Nathan was treated this season and won’t be watching anymore.

You are amazing for what you do with this blog and I thank you for your efforts to make it so enjoyable day after day.

No

I think my opinion on this site is in the minority, but Lucas and Elizabeth have solid chemistry and the chance for an interesting relationship. However, I would have been cool with Nathan too.  I love Kevin McGarry and want to see more of his fun side as he dates and raises Ally.  Could absolutely be a great relationship between Fiona and Nathan, but someone new could be exciting too if it's the right person.  Happy the triangle is over. Disappointed at the number of self-proclaimed "Hearties" who are acting like angry (Team Nathan) or gloating (Team Lucas) children.  I love this show because it's about kindness, being decent to one another, and forgiveness.  I had hoped fans on all sides would follow that lead, but not so much I guess. Here's to hoping we all embrace the Hope Valley way, putting the triangle behind us and moving on to whatever comes next!

I thought I would continue to watch even if she chose Lucas but after the way the season played out, I feel like TPTB care more about generating drama for the ratings than good storytelling and I won’t be used like that again.

I gave season 8 an average rating because I liked the stories about Nathan/Allie, the arrival of the Canfields, the love story of Florence/Ned and finally the story of Henry and his son.

Fans need to stop getting hung up on everything BB and the actors say to manipulate viewers into watching. I learned that lesson the hard way from Pretty Little Liars. We were misled over and over by the showrunner and let down every season finale. The series finale was the longest hour of  ridiculous shit to ever air on tv. We were looking for clues the whole time (7 years) and there were no clues, just a lot of pointless crap. I never pay attention to anything BB says on social media or what actors say in interviews. I watch WCTH without looking for clues or expecting any outcome. I saw E picking L a mile away. I like the idea of a heartbroken Nathan getting his own romantic storyline and look forward to that new love story next season.

This was a very good season I like the direction they went with this season and I’m very happy the triangle is finally over and she ended up with the man of her dreams. Lucas and Elizabeth are endgame .

Screwed us over big time. Not just us but the characters too. Nothing made sense and the whole season was for nothing because the story didnt go anywhere. Dont trust Hallmark anymore to write a complete, meaningful, and satisfying story. They disrespected everything about storytelling, the show, and disrespected the community that watched and supported the content. Someone either stupid, bitter, vengeful, or horny decided this finale. F them

Thank you for all you do!

The more I read about the writers of this show and some of the actors responses to the fans disappointment, the Lee’s I want anything yo do with this show. They’re arrogant, disrespectful; I guess thy think they’re so popular that everyone will tune in again next year. They think they have it in the bag. Nope! I believe season 9 will be a failure and probably their last one.

I don't hate the season but the bad balanced out the good so severely I felt like it was just a 'meh' season. I guess that's still an improvement from how I felt about S6 and 7, though.

Hopefully HM fires John Tinker his writing was awful.  I don’t mean the triangle everything was dumb and disjointed

I don't know why I watch this show.  But I must enjoy it on some level.  

Been a fan from day one - you lost 70% of your viewers. Some comments from   WCTH have made the fans feel if you don’t like their story line don’t watch - they are correct - I won’t ! Should of listen to the 70%. Good luck with your viewer ship you forgot who pays you!

I was surprised that E. was so insensitive leading Nathan on for so long.   She is also very materialistic and obviously chose Lucas for all that he could do for her without much depth.

Honestly, I mainly watch the show for Rosemary and Lee. I would like to see them become parents at some point, but I would also like a little more of Rosemary’s backstory. We gotten some of Lee’s backstory. I think it would be interesting to meet some of Rosemary’s family at some point. I am glad that Lee and Rosie are finding their niches career wise.

I just don’t see Lucas as Jack’s father. He hasn’t cared one whit for the boy, and yet the boy is everything to Elizabeth?? Doesn’t make sense. Since I don’t want Abigail back, I hope Henry isn’t going to get her. Alas that also means I think he’s likely left the show. Maybe good for Martin, since it has veered so far away from its beginning.  Thanks for all your work on this Melanie. I value it a lot!

I wish I could take back the last three years of life that I invested in this show. If I had known they would do this I never would have come back after Jack's death. Despite that, I still love and adore and am invested in Nathan and Allie, and some other side characters. But I can't even fathom watching season 9 after what the writers did. My WCTH, the one I loved and enjoyed, ended with season 7.

No

Bring Elizabeth and Nathan together

See Elizabeth and nathan hitched and get married  

love the show Wish there wasn't such a long wait for the next season

I hope they can redeem themselves. I'm a true hearty and I've never missed an episode. I can't stomach the person Elizabeth is becoming. I will stop watching if she doesn't go back to the Elizabeth we fell in love with.

New actors for Ally and little Jack, or less time on screen

The storytelling was not coherent; storylines started and ended abruptly with no flow. They need to get back to the roots of the show and make it more of a family drama again, not an over-the-top soap opera.

Chris McNally and Brian Bird’s attitudes are contemptible. I was not happy with the finale and how everything played out, but their comments have set me over the edge to choose not to support anything they are in or a part of. Rude, self righteous attitudes from both. I’m done.

I am shocked at my own reactions. A TV show shouldn't have so much affect on me but I am truly unhappy with Elizabeth's choice...and I think I am crazy because it is really bothering me!!

I am upset how the season ended. She picked the wrong man. I see no chemistry there.

Honestly no, I am not happy with how the characters were written, both Lucas and Nathan deserved better, Elisabeth came across as constantly freaking out and not following her heart while running over a lot of people (Rosemary, Nathan and Allie in particular) but she's never been my favourite character anyway, so whatever.

p.s. thank you so much for all your amazing work! I love your gifs and your blog <3 keep it up!

Elizabeth’s character has changed drastically.  She has become  egotistical, pompous, cruel, The character that Jeanette Oke originally wrote is nothing like the Elizabeth we now have.

Elizabeth played games with Nathan and Lucas just like she did with Jack and Charles. The series was written about a school teacher and a Mountie.  Not so anymore.

The betrayal of the original story and the fan base is hard to overcome.

I have completely changed my opinion about this show, Erin Krakow, and the direction this series is going in.

This season had so much promise but the finale left me angry. Agree with other comments that if they had invested in a better story for E&L it would be different. Warming the serge was the only time E “might” have been confusing Nathan for Jack. Their relationship was so different... single parenting, especially. Their love story could’ve been even more epic than E & J. Just a real shame. Will not continue to watch. Moving on.

no

The writer's blew this. I am absolutely disgusted with the character of Elizabeth. There is no way a school teacher and mother would have been allowed to associate with a saloon owner in that time period without being run out of town. It's ridiculous that they expect fans to be okay with this.

If I decide to watch, I will skip the Elizabeth and Lucas scenes.

I just discovered your Tumblr site yesterday: it a really comprehensive and insightful work!

Thank you so much for your blog, I seriously need a place to vent and scream for a while. This is ridiculous.

Tell your bean counter I will not be watching .  Hallmark has gone WOKE.

Hopefully John tinker will continue a show runner he did a wonderful job brought some new life to help Valley

I’m very happy with all of the promising storylines in season 9 , Rosemary and Lee’s business vendors, faith being the head doctor Henry’s story Elizabeth and Lucas finally being a couple there is a lot of promise in season 9

Tinker and the producers destroyed in 1 season, what Moreno worked so hard in weaving and building up a beautiful storyline with Nathan and Elizabeth to form the Grant family.  They have to understand that fans are leaving not because of Elizabeth's final choice. The reason is that Tinker and the producers disregarded the premise and the family wholesomeness of the show, and debased it by making it into a poorly written soap opera with lots of shouting and cheap superficial steamy scenes and called it "romance'. They did not take the time to carefully development of storyline of why Elizabeth's decision. If they have done a good job leading to Lucas as a decision, I think that Team Nathan's fans would have accepted the choice. Instead, they played with fans emotions and hurt them badly through the season from both Teams misleading them and make them think who was the endgame. They need to realize that we watch WCTH because of the feel good and heart warming story. The fans kept to the end because they wanted to see their guy been chosen, even though there was lots of anger and disappointment. Who really wants to watch a show that does not entertain us in a heartwarming way. Tinker and the producers are arrogant, prideful, foolish, and not to be trusted and have no integrity to go back to what WCTH values that kept the loyal Hearties coming back yearly. They destroyed all Moreno's hard work to rescue the show after season 5.  We wanted a family friendly clean show that make us happy and hopeful.  The show is shifting to likes of Dallas and Dynasty with steamy scenes, skimpy clothes, bickering and may become darker stories.  

Tinker did a horrendous job by introducing too many disjointed scenes and characters that led nowhere. He did not take the opportunity to develop the story behind Allie's dad, Rosemary and Lee barely had any storyline, many couples bickering and destroyed Elizabeth's character as a morally strong caring woman. The "new" Elizabeth in this season was cruel, mean, self-centred, uncaring and was not really sorry or remorseful for her actions that hurt Nathan and Allie badly, as well as Rosemary. Is unrealistic that Nathan was the one who convinced Lucas to stay.

Positives of the show was Ned and Florence's romance and wedding. Loved the Nathan and Allie's storyline.  Nathan portrayed as the noble, sacrificial, kind, wise, heroic and because he loved Elizabeth, he let her go. It showed that Nathan was the better man with an impeccable character.

After this season, Elizabeth has been cheapened to a weak character that did not overcome fear, getting onto people's affair (Especially into Nathan's even when she rejected him, which gave him false hopes), was attracted to wealth and superficial romance, instead of the deep abiding unconditional love with Nathan. She became hypocritical by giving everybody advise and yet she did opposite to what she was saying. This Elizabeth did not deserve to have Nathan. He is too good for her. I don't know what will happen to littleJack as I can't see Lucas to love Jack as his own. He might be raised by nannies (as Elizabeth have already done)  and become a Little Lord Fauntleroy.

If the writers and producers are smart, they should focus on developing a compelling and heartfelt story for Nathan. In my opinion, he is the favourite character that embodies all the good values in When Calls the Heart, even through his imperfections. If they focus on Nathan and weave a great story, they may get some of Team Nathan fans coming back to the show and avoid cancellation after season 9.

Thank you for providing a platform to voice my opinion and disappointment of Tinker and the producers (eg Bird, Erin Krakow) ruining a show that could have been wonderful with lovely storylines for years to come.

It is time to move on from the love triangle.  No matter what a fan group was going to be heartbroken.  No point feeling so betrayed. We were never promised an outcome one way or the other so there was no betrayal.  There was only disappointment of not getting what we wanted.

This was my least favorite season overall.  The main characters didn't seem quite themselves, key couples weren't in sync, no compelling storylines other than the arrival of the wonderful Canfields, Elizabeth & Rosemary were even on the outs.  Missed the kids (although completely understand why they couldn't be there). And very, very disappointed in the ending.  Not a fan of Lucas' character at all.

Hallmark really dropped it on this one. Look at the survey and polls  the  fans wanted Nathan! A good show ruined.  If this was the plan for Elizabeth a different actor should have been cast as Lucas.  No chemistry , a saloon owner it just makes NO sense. The storylines are so disappointing. I am done!

I have some complaints, but overall I liked the season and am genuinely excited for season nine! Positive feelings here for sure! Still, I understand and respect that a sizeable portion of the fandom is upset (I was prepared to be completely crushed myself so I Get It). Since the love triangle ended the way I wanted, I’m relieved and prepared to just enjoy whatever comes our way next.

PS to the person behind this survey and blog - we have some ugh... disagreements, but you have contributed so much to this fandom with your gifs and these surveys. Thank you so much for that. <3

Ratings were down in the key 18-49 demo by 10 percent last year, and now 20 percent this year while total viewers remain flat. I guess we’ll see if their gamble pays off next season. But it really seems like a lot of their most loyal fans really got hurt, and as we know, karma is a b%^^. So much for the showrunner righting the ship.

[shreddedleopard]

Suns, Moons and Songs.

My favourite. The soundtrack is littered with songs that allude to Historia and Levi’s part in the plot. I’ll just bring up some of the major ones.

Okay, first biggie - Zero Eclipse. 

This song is purposefully vague in a lot of places, in that a lot of the lyrics could fit to Ymir, and I believe the sentiment is genuine. Ymir was a huge part of Historia’s life before she left. However, there are a lot of similarities between her and Levi, which is handy for Yams. Same for the bond Erwin and Levi shared. Clever, clever.

The first verses could work for either on the whole, but the lines about jealousy and blades doubling and the use of kid absolutely reminds me of Ymir when she joins the survey corps with Historia.

When we get to the bridge, the first lines about never hearing the person sigh of ecstasy likely suggests that Ymir wanted to get to that point with Historia but they never did. And of course the chorus very much reflects Ymir’s speech to Historia about living a life she can be proud of, and not doing silly suicidal things to be the hero, like she did with Daz.

Okay our next verse is where it gets very interesting!

Every single line fits Levi perfectly. Seeing the fallen? It’s that image at Shiganshina of Erwin surrounded by their fallen comrades. Still we have that question, what will Levi do with those sacrifices? A recurring theme, but now we should have a pretty good idea of the answer. 

Next we have a direct reference to the Beast Titan - which conveniently also links perfectly to Historia’s childhood bullies - both threw stones to ‘make us go away.’ 

‘It was only the face of anger, and kindness, it lit my way’ - well this has soo many connotations. So firstly, Historia and the bullies. Because Frieda taught her to be a good, kind girl, Historia understands that the bullies were only acting out of anger, and kindness is the answer here. Hmm ... who else right about now in the story could do with realising anger and revenge won’t solve anything - but working together might, even if you’ve been pelted by stones at the hands of this person? It’s Levi and Zeke. And Historia’s influence on Levi - the idea of kindness lighting his way - will mean he makes the right decision. It’s also worth noting very briefly here, because I will explore this more later, that in the manga, we have that removed scene of Levi behaving aggressively towards Historia, although she later puts this aside. Originally, Isayama also wanted to parallel Levi with Historia’s childhood bullies, but he changed his mind for the anime. We’ll look at this more when we check out an interesting interview by Yams.

‘Ain’t no picnic to be abandoned’ - again, such a simple line, so many meanings. Historia and Levi’s childhood parallels are uncanny, and both were abandoned by parental figures in their youth which we see in Uprising had lasting impacts on them. So much so, they work together to open an orphanage, saving children from within the walls and even the underground.

‘It led us here, we had to share the pain.’ I mean, I’ve said this so many times, but how could they not end up bonding over all this!? But wait, there’s more. Shiganshina happens, and Levi looses Erwin. Historia has not so long ago lost Ymir, and we see how upset she is when she receives her letter. Remember that scene though where Levi arrives and she wipes away her tears? Yep. They were both abandoned again in a sense, and so, it only serves to push them closer together. They mourn for what have been pretty much their other halves since the start of the series, and they do it together. Yams is screaming at us to read between the lines for these two, while he drops just enough surface hints to keep the trail warm, so to speak. 

Okay the next lyrics ‘Now you are a part of me, I will defend and honour thee’ ... what do they remind you of? I get knight protecting Queen vibes. And this literally used to be the role of the Ackermans according to Kenny's grandpa - the sword and shield to the crown. Levi is virtually back in that role for Historia, and we come full circle after the years of persecution. 

NEXT. ‘Did you think that you could die a hero?’ Kenny tells Levi everyone is drunk on a dream in order to keep moving forwards. He asks Levi, what are you? A hero? Everyone expects Levi to go out fighting, taking out Zeke and finally fulfilling his vow to Erwin. But that's not the message of this story. We need to break the cycle of revenge and hate, remember? Kruger said so himself - love someone within the walls, it's the only way to stop this cursed history. Levi won’t choose revenge. He’ll give up on his dream to go out like a hero, because now he has something to return home to. 

‘Our awakening means less than zero.’ And just in case you were wondering, it’s not because of any Acker-bond crap. It’s the real deal; just like Zeke told Eren in chapter 130. Being an Ackerman has nothing to do with either Levi or Mikasa’s feelings towards their respective loves. 

Let’s look at that chorus again, while I start to blush in the corner. ‘You’re trembling, we share a kiss, our worlds eclipse.’ Heck, I never knew SNK could be so ... ahem, yeah. It gets raunchier further on, by the way. But besides the obvious suggestion of passion here, we have the symbolism from the song’s title - the eclipse. What happens during an eclipse? Well, depends what sort to be fair heh, but for a solar eclipse, we have the moon moving in front of the sun, blocking it’s light. And we see the Dark Side of the Moon. Wait!? Isn’t that literally the title of Levi's character song ...? Oh, shit. We’ll check out those lyrics later. Historia is often associated with dawn light, which of course means the sun. The eclipse here is her pregnancy. The two solar bodies appear to become one. Not to mention the literal shape of her stomach! We had those lyrics about ‘letting our worlds collide’ earlier too. Not just referring to the pregnancy, but their supposedly different ideologies around violence/revenge and love/kindness/forgiveness. 

Now for the best bits. 

‘Black sugar, keep it, up til the dawn.’ Told you it gets better. Black sugar is apparently something very addictive. So Levi and Historia are engaged in something very addictive here, keeping them up until the dawn ...? Ah. Yes. Makes sense, considering her current condition. 

And then my very favourite line, that hit me right in the gut when I first listened to this. Because the words sounded very familiar, but not for Historia. 

‘Make a promise that I cannot regret.’ Levi’s whole theme is not regretting the choices that you make. It’s repeated over and over. He makes a promise to Erwin in his vow, but he comes to terms with the fact that fulfilling this is no longer what he really wants - we’ve just seen that realisation in 136 when he talks about how he’s never bungled one of Erwin’s orders, but yet his last one ... He knows attempting to keep that promise will mean he likely won’t ‘get back out alive,’ so instead, he will make Historia a promise that he can’t regret, because he just can’t ‘learn how to let you go.’ I’M NOT CRYING - YOU ARE. Do you remember the two letters - from Petra and Ymir - about marriage? I think we know what Levi is going to dedicate his heart to in the end. Note also the, ‘as long as I can see you, but in secret.’ That just gives us that final confirmation that the relationship alluded to here in Zero Eclipse is one that has been hidden from us - this fits neither Historia/Ymir or Levi/Erwin, although there are elements of both of these in the song. 

Okay, here's the lyrics to Levi’s song. I’m not going to rip it apart like I did with Zero Eclipse, because a) I think a lot of it is self explanatory, and b) the next chapter comes out soon and like, I’d love to have got through everything I want to say before then. So some quick (ish, knowing me) notes:

Okay so this second set of lyrics is the one I want to draw attention to - cleverly nestled in the middle of the song. We’re going to ‘someday’ see the dark side of the moon ‘revealed’. Yeah, when there is an eclipse. This is the only time you see the dark side of the moon. Literally. So we’ll see Levi’s other side when he finds Historia, and they create this eclipse - this child. His true nature will be revealed, and he will not choose violence or revenge. 

‘Persuasion by memories of pain an essential lesson.’ Okay, I can’t really go hugely into this without the Akatsuki no Requiem video, which we’ll look at in a bit. Because then things will mind-bogglingly make sense. If you’ve already seen it and know the theory behind it, then you’ll get what I mean. But essentially, our ending for Levi is going to be bittersweet, because while he ends up with a family of his own finally, he is also plagued with regret and sorrow for what came to pass before, and the huge role he played in it.

‘Just being without regrets, is my own decision.’ Such a simple line, so many powerful meanings. Levi will make the ultimate choice with no regrets in his promise to Historia, and their child. He cannot regret either of them. But he has to make that decision, and we know it will be difficult, because it will mean failing to execute Erwin’s last order. It will probably look likely that he will make the wrong choice up until the very last moment. This again too links in with the ackertalk between Zeke and Eren. Levi is confirming that his decision to be with Historia does not stem from duty or something in his genes. It’s the real deal.

More Fun Song Facts.

Here's the lyrics for Before Lights Out:

Freedom! Freedom! Forgive Me! Retake Maria! Victorious, triumphant! All of my kingdom For your return I will let it burn! I will let it burn! Dear departed I’ll cry for you in a dream Now I must rise to be queen Be worthy Be worthy

The song that is a different version of APETITAN - the soundtrack to Zeke’s Beast’s first appearance. Before Lights Out plays when Erwin leads the suicide charge towards Zeke, after Levi makes his vow to ‘take down the beast titan.’ He watches Erwin and the scouts charge to their deaths and whispers, ‘I’m sorry.’ 

Because he’s never going to fulfil that vow, is he? And we know why when we read the lyrics of the song.

HOLY MOTHER OF FORESHADOWING I have chills.

Ahhhhh I need to talk about Akatsuki no Requiem I guess. This one definitely needs it’s own post.

You still with me? I have drunk a lot of coffee at this point.

[fiery-assassin-arc]

꧁༒☬𝓒𝓵𝓸𝓼𝓾𝓻𝓮 –𝓘𝓻𝓲𝓼’𝓼 𝓟𝓞𝓥☬༒꧂

He remains still, not wanting to attack. Hands behind his back. Gentle smile. I am still holding the fire poker in my hands, aimed at him. Part of me wants to attack, but he knows I wouldn’t. I was blinded by rage that day.

 He knows I’m haunted by what he did.

 I wonder if he had time to reflect.

 “Put that down, Phoenix.”

“Why are you in my home?” I accuse, taking a step closer, placing it by his chest. “How are you in my home?”

 “I’m the Grandmaster of lock-picking as well as the Lin Kuei.” He explains, raises his eyebrow ever slightly. I should have known. “As for the why,” He looks at the fire poker, me, then at the improv weapon again. “I would like to talk it over with you, if you’re willing to listen to me.”

 I chew the inside of my cheek. Contemplating my options. I could listen to him, or get him out of the house. I never did listen to him that day. Even at the pyre, I stood far away from the others as they mourned. I was angry, but how I had to force his hand to have Frost be buried along with the others… I don’t know if I can forgive him. But I’ve also grown so much with him, he’s helped me slowly overcome my fear of the dark (managed, not completely eradicated).

 I put the fire poker on the rack, and gesture him to the kitchen. “Hungry? I’m sure you’ve had a long journey.” At his shrug of indifference, I make my way to the kitchen, checking to see if he follows.

 Just because I’m angry at him, doesn’t mean I no longer respect him.

 He sits on the bar stool, looking uncomfortable as I grab ingredients for colcannon. Potatoes, kale, butter, heavy cream. His cold is familiar I clear my throat, hoping it could ease the tension here. “How are things?”

 “The temple has slowly come back to normal. Some new recruits have joined.” He tells me, looks at how I cut the potatoes. Even, use the knife to peel the skin carefully. “Some of the other members miss you, Phoenix. I have missed you.”

 The knife slams down on the cutting board, remembering the name I gave myself.  It was the rebirth from the ashes. But now I am ash, nothing to spark me. “I don’t know if I can come back stronger like last time.” I say to him. I continue cooking. Boiling the potatoes.

 “I have watched you go from a little, barely sparking ember on wood to a forest fire. Destructive, powerful, confident. You have grown in the past five years. Whatever ails you, you will overcome.” There’s pride in his voice, a gentle smile that I haven’t seen in a while.

 “Yeah, but now I’m back to where I started.” I argue, before chopping up the kale. “You never did answer my question on why you’re here.”

 “I know you have taken a leave of absence. Because you are upset with me.” Sub-Zero sighs, and his hands slap his thighs. “On that day, I thought I could possibly disengage her thoughts, put her in temporary rest. But Raiden decided that it was best to eliminate her entirely. And I’m sorry I couldn’t stop him in time, or didn’t say anything to prevent it.”

 I look over at him. His ocean eyes show an amount of regret. I never did look at him that day. All I say was someone who indirectly took something most important from me.

 “You both had such a powerful bond, the same Hanzo and I once had. When she challenged me, I made the choice of exile because I would not, could not kill her; deep down I cared for her like one would a daughter to a father. Same with you.” He sighs, and I pass him the bowl of potatoes, and the masher. He chuckles. “What’s this?”

 “Mashing potatoes is better than hurting yourself. Trust me. Do it.” I offer, leaning on the kitchen counter.  

 “That won’t be left unchecked.” Sub-Zero says, and proceeds to mash the vegetable, continues. “I was angry with her when I found she had allied herself with Sektor. I did not hold her back, she simply needed more guidance, even though she was Chief. And I remember how you were hurt by my choices, yet you remained loyal. Why?”

 Why. That’s what it all boils down to, does it? Everyone has a why, but do I? I sigh, crack my knuckles. “I did what I thought was right that day. I argued with her earlier that it was foolish to do so, but she didn’t push me to join her.” I look into the bowl of potatoes—looks good enough. But he’s still mashing them in a clockwise motion. “I trusted your judgment, in the end. And I believed, maybe, maybe she’d come back to us.” To me.

 “I remember you told me Frost didn’t cyberize you. She set you free.”  

 “She did. But we fought before that. I don’t know what provoked her, but I noticed her movements…” Sub-Zero pushes the bowl to me, and I prepare the rest of the dish. Adding butter, cream. “It was if she held some sort of restraint. Not completely, but enough to overpower, and get a chance to escape. It was before you and Master Hasashi arrived.” I add salt and pepper. “I think then, she still protected me.” Toss in the kale. Get some bowls for us.

 “At least there were still parts of her that were human. Her love for you never left her even when she changed.” He reaches a hand over, hesitant. I slowly take it, embrace the chill. “I hope what I said is enough for closure.”

 I feel a lump in my throat, unable to melt with the heat, and I feel tears burn my eyes. Second time today. It’s nice to hear how he really felt that day.

 “It’s a start, but it doesn’t mean I’ll forgive you right away. I may need time.”  

 “That is something I will accept, Phoe—Iris.” He sends me a crooked smile. It’s a comfort to me.  “And know, you will always have a home at the temple.”

 “And you have a place to stay at the palace,” I offer. “But why do I sense there’s something else…”

 Sub-Zero presses his lips into a thin line. “What you said earlier. About cooking is better than hurting yourself. The way you held the fire poker, I notice a look in your eyes: fear.” When I eat as a distraction, he goes on. “Something happened to you, did it?”

 I swallow, my food suddenly bland in my mouth. “Grandmaster . . .”

 Sub-Zero takes a deep breath, gently pats my shoulder. “I won’t make you tell me, but when you get the chance, you know I’ll be lending an ear.”

 I nod. “I appreciate it. You should eat your colcannon, it’s going to get cold.”

 “I’m sorry—my what?”

 “Colcannon. It’s potatoes with a green vegetable in it. It’s really good.” I gesture to his bowl.  “Try some.”

 “I guess I will indulge.”  Sub-Zero takes a spoonful of the dish, his mouth twisting into a frown. “It’s . . . good.”

 “Do you not like the food or my cooking?”

 “Erm..”

 “You’re a shit liar, Grandmaster Sub-Zero.” At that, we both chuckle softly, the fireplace our music as we try to reform a bond like a lost father and daughter.

 This is something. Not like therapy. Or maybe it is. Because a slight weight is off of my chest.

  Bend the knee. Lift the leg, Stretch. Repeat until it does something.  My pointe shoes are almost ruined, the dirt under the padding and blood seeping at the toe. But it shows dedication, it shows my determination.

 I landed the role of the Black Swan, and I’m doing my best to make my moveset more . . . seductive. I would have once gone for the White Swan, but shockingly enough I landed a role that was new to me. I’ll take it.

 I walk to the center of the room, and start the dance, Christian screeching words of encouragement with Wren watching. I made one of my rooms a makeshift ballet studio. “Thanks buddy.” I say softly.

 “How does it feel being the Black Swan instead one of the little swans?”

 “It feels great.” I say, doing a pirouette. “It was fun being the cute swan, but now, being kind of like the bad guy, I’m enjoying it.”

 Wren smiles, and lightly coughs into her hand. That’s the second time today.  And earlier this morning at brunch. “Let’s hope you won’t become like that ballerina in that movie. Don’t overwork yourself, and don’t stress.” Wren reassures me, shaking off an invisible feeling.

 “Do you want some tea? You’re acting like you have a cold.” I stop my practice, and lean against the bar. “Please don’t tell me you caught a cold.”

 She scoffs. “What are you worried about? You don’t get sick.”

 “Not often. But it’s annoying when the symptoms pop up. I’ll get chills instead of fevers.” I shudder, before redirecting our conversation back. “But you’ve been warm. Your temperature is higher.”

 “Maybe I am catching a cold.” I take a step back in fear. She scratches her head. “Or the flu. I’ve been a little nauseated.”

 “Have you? For how long?”

 “A few days.” Wren sighs. “I’m pretty sure it’s nothing. Now, you’ve made me your ballet coach. So I say we keep going. Come on, show me . . . something alluring.”

 I laugh,  turn the music back on. I arch my back, my hand floating above my head, spinning on my toes. I make my movements fluid, but sharp. As I look at  Wren, I notice how she almost looked a little tired than usual.

 Ever since the marriage between her and my brother, Wren has been like a big sister to me, making me laugh and giving me advice, especially when it came to dating. Being myself. But how can I, now? When I no longer know myself?

  I spin in a flurry, going at least five times. Stopping once and going once again. Looking at the mirrors. Then I see her.

 Someone who died years ago.

 The vibrant red hair. The ember eyes, red from angry tears. A bruise under her eye. Blood on her lip. The dress she’s wearing is black. Darkened by obvious stains.

 It’s a younger version of me.

I trip my spin and fall on the ground, pain radiating up my leg. My breathing is fast. My heart hurts. What the—why am I seeing a young version of me?

 Christian screeches in worry and flies over to me. His head touches my cheek. “I’m okay, boy.” I tell him. Wren looks at me with concern, helping me up. “No, really I’m fine. Let’s keep going, yeah?”

 “…Are you sure? That was a nasty fall.”

 “I’m sure. And turn up the music louder.” I say, and practice on the other side of the room. Making sure not to look at any mirrors.

[magnumdays]

Higgy Suddenly Marrying TC Makes Zero % Sense - Rant

So this was going to be part of my weekly review. But I decided to just make this little rant post to get it out of my system...

Basically, as the title says: 

Juliet switching to marrying TC is totally senseless (and makes it more likely that they’d get caught) and here are the reasons why...

A) they’ve been telling people she and Magnum are getting married and started planning their wedding!!! You can’t just switch it around like that! I mean if anything is going to raise red flags, switching grooms 5 days before the wedding is! 

Cake topper! Too good! 

B) as business partners they have spent time together and have a legit reason to have fallen in love and lots of things such as phone calls and being undercover (for “dates” and going on love tours) to make it believable. 

(Fun fact: Almost 40% of people have dated a co-worker and 14 %of marriages are between co-workers.) 

So while Juliet and TC are friends, anyone looking into the amount of contact they’ve had compared to her and Magnum would realize something was fishy.

C) Gordon’s point that ‘they’ll talk to your clients, you’ll have to keep it up all the time‘ is stupid. 

First of all, two people about the same age who can show they know each other and have a relationship - where the “spouse” is coming from the UK...my first thought is - no one is going to investigate too much. 

Maybe marrying someone you’ve never met from Russia is going to make the government pull out the big guns and go round asking questions. But someone who has been in the US, lived at the same address as their new spouse, is educated, has a job… I don’t think the government will spend too much of their time trying to prove it ‘fake’. As much as I love “The Proposal” the US government isn’t sending agents (or kittens) out to stalk you halfway across the country to prove your relationship isn’t real.

Second if they were going to investigate, why would they interview their clients? Friends and family for sure, but just like Magnum points out when the girl is all “you don’t seem like your getting married” “we like to stay professional”. 

Which makes sense and is a legit explanation! If you date someone at the office, your not going to pull them in for a kiss at the end of the Monday meeting, are you? Geesh! Same would go if you run your own small PI business.

D) What was the thing with “I asked another friend” bit Juliet pulled there at the end? She should have just gone, “I asked TC and he said he’d do it”. 

I mean I guess they were going to have a bit of a fun “Reveal” with the banner being re-done (like in the set photos), but either I missed it or the cut that scene.

She should also have talked to him about her concerns. I mean she tried, so I’ll give her that, but this made me annoyed. I know they’re doing it for DRAMA but Jay is just too good at making sad puppy dog face whenever Higgy does something to make Magnum sad. 

So I just felt sad for Magnum and like Higgy was kind of the bad guy even though it was clearly a tough choice for her and she was doing it to protect him and keep their partnership intact. Still not really fully motivated for me and I don’t like because I want to understand the motivation of both my babies even when I only agree with one of them…

Now, I’ll forgive them for this stupid plot-line if something good (like lots of Miggy feels) comes from it, which I think it might (why else do it?). I also don’t think Higgy and TC will actually get married as that would make things waaay to complicated when Miggy does happen (and love it or hate it, you gotta agree that that is kind of where things are going.) 

But then there is this, so I just don’t know!  

In the end I think either Robin saves the day or Magnum (we do have this from the 2x20′s summary: ....Magnum makes one last bold move to help Higgins stay in the country) which will be interesting for sure! 

So that was my rant! What are your thoughts?

[summerspn]

Gilmore Girls

Lorelai Gilmore

Witty, carefree, hardworking, intelligent, & fun. Lorelai is loveable in many ways but she can also be irresponsible, very selfish & a commitment-phobe.

Lorelai hasn’t changed at all over the years. The lack of evolution is actually disappointing.

In the first few seasons I found her charming but later I found her selfish & annoying. I think that’s because she never takes responsibility for her actions & everyone always loves her. Sometimes it reaches almost Mary Sue or cult-like levels. She can do no wrong in the eyes of almost every single character except her parents...which is probably why she gets annoyed with them. She resents the fact they don’t worship her the way the town does.

Even Luke gets annoyed at her a lot but then gives in, smiles & then looks like he’s over it. He’s one of the few people to call her out on her ridiculous or selfish behaviour but then let’s it go.

She always gets her own way. He even said in Year in the Life that he’ll never leave no matter how bad she treats him....Was that supposed to be romantic? It’s actually sad, like an abused spouse sticking it out. Though I think it was likely just the word choice used. I get that Amy Sherman Palladino was trying to showcase Luke’s loyalty but there were better ways...

Through the entire series Lorelai has a love for gimmickry & silly rants. Sometimes it was cute & other times I just wanted to tell her to “Stop interrupting people!”. By the end of the series I wanted to tell her to shut up- mainly because her little ‘amusing’ rants were ill timed & often made her sound like an idiot.

Lorelai grew up with a silver spoon in her mouth & she resented her parents for that. Once she became pregnant at sixteen she didn’t make any effort to plan for her (and baby Rory’s) future. Yet we see in the flashbacks that she was still annoyed at her parents. They were scrambling to try to make the best of the situation & she was annoyed with them for it.

Lorelai was ungrateful then...ungrateful when they arranged for a nanny to help after she gave birth...and ungrateful for everything afterwards.

There’s a lot of questionable behaviour that Lorelai does. Some can be attributed to the fact she was a teenager at the time - like dismissing Christopher’s marriage proposal. She loved him but said no. Not a mistake exactly but she still pushed him away - which I think was a bad move. She should have talked to him about finding a way to keep him involved in Rory’s life.

Christopher was pushed away & being immature he felt they were better off and he kept his distance. What is questionable is that never, in all the years growing up did Lorelai tell him to grow some balls, man up & see his daughter more. She would have been broke & should have asked for some money to help with daycare etc.

The only reason Lorelai didn’t ask for money or more involvement was pride, pure & simple. She wanted to say she did it all ‘alone’, to feel superior to how her parents did things.

Later, even when Christopher does start to take more responsibility as a father, she says things that sounded very passive aggressive. Like she didn’t want him to have a better relationship with Rory. So it’s a catch 22, a no win situation where there was really was no way for Christopher to fix things.

They say early on that Christopher did weekly phone calls & the occasional visit. Not great but not terrible either. But Lorelai acts like he is a bad father & yet still constantly flirts with him. What is that?!

It’s a complete mind fuck.

That’s probably a big reason I started to like Christopher by the end. He always did as Lorelai wanted, respecting her wishes while trying to have a relationship with his daughter & do his own thing. All contradictory but so is how Lorelai treated him. She basically jerked him around.

You shouldn’t do that regarding your child’s father. Be clear & set boundaries... that’s important but she did the opposite all the time & there was zero evolution with that over the years.

Even later, when Christopher made more effort to see Rory, and when they had a good relationship, Lorelai chose to keep a very big life decision from him. Rory didn’t tell him she dropped out of school because she was being selfish right? Well as a co-parent, that then fell to Lorelai. She should have called Christopher and told him their daughter dropped out of college & is acting out of character.

Even if he couldn’t change her mind, he should have known. But who knows, maybe she would have listened? Sometimes it’s easier to listen to people you’re not talking to every day (like how Jess was able to talk some sense into her).

But Lorelai deliberately kept quiet about Rory’s dropping out of school & her arrest. Why keep it from him? He would have been worried.

The only thing I can think of is the Lorelai somehow thought it didn’t matter to him, which just shows she wasn’t paying attention & was being selfish.

When Christopher happily agrees to take over paying for Yale, both Rory & Lorelai keep it from Emily & Richard. It’s avoiding an awkward conversation but instead the elder Gilmores end up being embarrassed by having to deal with the financial mix up, thinking the school had made a mistake.

So Emily & Richard were embarrassed & probably had a very stressful & panicked reaction to make sure the tuition was covered. Richard said he had yelled at a woman out of desperation to make sure everything was settled. I personally would have been freaked if someone said school was paid for but wasn’t. I’d want to know there wouldn’t be any issues!

So think about it, the woman dealing with that had a really bad day because of it.

So Lorelai (whose job it was to tell her parents), was selfish again and it resulted in a lot of stress for others because she was avoiding telling her parents about the tuition.

Lorelai isn’t evil and sometimes she is a good partner. Like when Luke for some reason didn’t tell her about April for two months. She was upset but sticks by him.

She adjusts & tries to deal. It was refreshing to see. Her & Luke have chemistry & the banter is good but even by the end of the series they still don’t communicate very well. She still acts like he should be her servant a lot of time because she’s pretty bossy.

In Year in the Life they have zero communication skills & it’s pretty sad considering they’ve been together for 10 years. But again everything is always about her. Lorelai keeping therapy from him, wanting to meet with Paris about IVF when Luke clearly is just...stunned. It’s just baffling.

During her marriage & rough patches with Christopher Lorelai insists she loves him. I think she loved him as a teenager & as an adult loves the idea of him but she always strung him along which is not exactly a loving trait. So I actually liked when she married Christopher I just thought it should have included Rory & her parents (even if spontaneous).

What made me upset is that one minute she’s telling Christopher she loves him then she’s taking to Luke again. Christopher - her HUSBAND- tells her he’s not comfortable with the relationship & she completely ignores his concerns.

When he suggested they buy a bigger house she was adamant they stay in her house (even though it was going to be too small for them, Gigi, Paul Anka & Rory when she visits). Christopher accommodates quickly....then sees more interaction between her & Luke & gets jealous.

Of course he does. He acts like a jerk but so does Luke & so does Lorelai. But we’re supposed to hate Christopher for that? Um, no.

Then Lorelai writes that personal reference letter about Luke for the custody battle & Christopher finds it. She kept it from him. Hearing the letter & seeing his reaction - to me - sounded very much like it was saying Luke was Rory’s father not Christopher. I can understand the hurt there.

Seriously, all Lorelai would have to do was tell Christopher she feels she owes it to Luke to write the letter. Be honest with him & it would have been a non-issue. But by hiding it like a 12 yr old, it gave the wrong message, that she had feelings for Luke still. And Christopher may be immature but he wasn’t an idiot.

The only really stupid thing he did, was pull away for those few days. I think Lorelai said it was less than a week. It was dumb & a dick move...but I also get it. That would be painful. You change your entire life, commit to the person you were in love with for 20 yrs, make a life with them & your child, only to see proof she wasn’t even trying to commit to you? That’s rough. Not an excuse but I get the anger there.

However, hearing the messages that Lorelai left him, it still sounds pretty weak like she wasn’t sure what she wanted. She didn’t put her husband first, she never offered to give up her ‘friendship’ with Luke. Tv shows always act like it would be unhealthy to give up an ex for their current partner. But no, giving up an ex is part of the commitment process...if it’ll make your spouse happy & prove your love, do it.

It shouldn’t be a question. Besides at that point Lorelai was barely taking to Luke anyways. But she didn’t want that & again put herself first. And many of her phone messages to Christopher were dancing around things.

She could have at that point, agreed to move to a new town together - which also would have proved her commitment & made him happy. She could have said ‘I love you & miss you but screw you for leaving me!’ It took her awhile before she finally said it & as soon as she did he came to his senses....but then saw Luke there, again.

And right after Lorelai wanted a divorce. No counselling, no talk of what boundaries they should have regarding Luke. Nothing. Lorelai just said it is what it is...being selfish. And Christopher just backs off like a scared & heartbroken boy.

What annoyed the crap out of me about the marriage was Lorelai still made all the decisions. She basically wanted Christopher as a roommate only. No thought about what a marriage should be or what they wanted from the marriage.

That, and the fact Emily was offering her advice but Lorelai never took it. She never once asked her mom for help...and Emily liked Christopher so she would’ve helped in any way she could. Lorelai knew this but didn’t even try.

Then once the marriage is over, before the big celebration party, Lorelai waits to tell her parents. Her mother spent money on a brilliant party...giving no thought to how that would make her mother look or feel. Wedding-party talk with her mom was important to Emily because she missed her only daughter’s wedding but Lorelai didn’t care.

Then there are instances where Lorelai is just being immature & makes things tough for her parents as an adult. She constantly whines about Friday night dinners, rarely told her parents she loved them or cared for them. Her love was conditional.

When her dad needed his meds her mom was clearly implying that she needed someone to pick them up.

Lorelai was toying with her, playing games about who can pick them up. Playing around when Emily was stressed. I don’t know about you but if I see my mom stressed out I want to help. She could have just said ‘I’ll pick it up’ though she does later, after jerking her around first.

There are times we clearly see Emily trying to make Lorelai feel better. When they were bonding over taxes, Emily tells her it’s not horrible & that she’ll be okay. It’s a complicated relationship so Emily later thanks her for helping but is also upset & grieving the thought of not having Christopher as a son-in-law anymore. So Emily points out how much money was thrown away on the party, so what? Lorelai acted like her mother was bad for doing that but wouldn’t you be upset if you spent tens of thousands of dollars for nothing? I would!

Lorelai was ungrateful & spoiled.

As much as some people hate season 7 I think there are some really good moments in the series. Especially showing Lorelai’s character. At one point T.J. calls her too much drama...and he’s right! When Rory disrespects people Lorelai never calls her out on it. She jerks both Christopher & Luke around.

An episode near the end of the series, Rory , Lorelai & Emily go to the wedding of the old owner of the Independence Inn, Maya. The entire episode Lorelai is completely oblivious to how her mom feels. When Rory spells it out for her Lorelai tried to be gentle & reassure her mom she didn’t lose her. It was nice to see.

But the next episode it was like Lorelai went right back to treating her poorly so Emily keeps her at arms length.

In season 7 though we see that Lorelai accepted Logan which was a big step. She also agreed to keep seeing her parents after Rory graduates, which is big. So there were a few things that weren’t bad & were improvements but at the same time, with all her whiny & passive aggressive behaviour, I wouldn’t say she evolved at all.

I did find it strange the entire town wanted to go to Rory’s graduation from Yale. Was this supposed to be funny?? Personally I thought it was dumb. Lorelai should have at that point told them to back off. A wasted opportunity. It could have shown some evolution regarding the town’s unhealthy idol worship of both Lorelai & Rory. But nope it was just Lorelai dancing around it, not wanting to set boundaries again.

I think Lorelai is very selfish as you can tell. She’s always jerking people- mainly her love interests- around. Max, Luke, Christopher, even that guy Alex (she dated briefly) she was back & forth on.

When she gave birth to Rory she made some mistakes. That’s understandable as is how immature & selfish she was. However, by the start of the series she never evolved. Ever.

Even when she goes back to school & gets her business degree - which is big life accomplishment...she still acts unprofessional on the phone at work & with vendors. Sure she had some funny conversations and all but she’s 32 in season one. Then she acts exactly the same in season 7 - at 39...both professionally & personally. Then Year in the Life was supposed to be 10 years later so she’s 49.

She & Luke still didn’t get married. No other kids, zero communication. Ugh I really wished the time jump could have been used better. All it would have taken were a few family photos & like ONE scene where Luke & Lorelai are in bed reading to their 3 yr old twins or something. Could have been cute!

It also would have shown Lorelai’s growth by giving up the house to get a bigger one for everyone (it would have proven her commitment to Luke & the family too). But what can one expect from the train wreck that is Year in the Life?

I’m a big fan of seeing characters grow & evolve. So it annoys me when I see a fun character like Lorelai, stuck as a selfish spoiled brat. I may have liked her more if she ended up friends with her mom or being more strict with Rory...something. Wasted opportunities with her.

To put it plainly I was so-so about Lorelai when I was younger but now as an adult I don’t like her. But she did have some great lines!

The actress who plays her, Lauren Graham is perfect though! Just amazing. Not sure how she could have remembered all those lines, talk a mile a minute & make it feel like her emotions are genuine. Takes real talent!

[shicca-no-aoneko-blog]

EDENS ZERO THEORY:

IS XIAO MEI SHICCA'S DAUGHTER?

{THE POST CONTAINS SPOILERS FROM THE MANGA "EDENS ZERO" BY HIRO MASHIMA.}

Before starting with this absurd theory I want to thanks @theweiszguy for providing me the official English scans of the manga (thank you so much Hali, you saved me! 💕) but above all I apologize if I make any grammatical errors.

I am Italian and English is not my first language ^^ ".

I also want to say that this theory will be REALLY LONG.

That said, let's start and remember.

THIS IS JUST A THEORY.

I know that surely the title of this post has certainly shocked you a lot but slowly I will try to explain my hypotheses about it.

During the formulation of this theory I asked myself the following questions:

What happened to the Shicca found dead? But above all WHERE are they dead?

Towards the end of the Chapter 4, we see this scene.

These two robots find two dead bodies, One of a man and one of a woman.

Obviously a great cold shower for Shicca shippers since we understand immediately who they are talking about.

And it is then confirmed by Rebecca's b-cube.

So we have the confirmation that those dead bodies are Shiki and Rebecca's.

But what happened? When did it happen? Where did it happen?

Unfortunately we don't know what happened but we can go back to when it happened and where it happened.

The manga gives us a first clue as to how long this death has happened,20,000 years before the bodies were found.

But there is another detail that makes us understand that a long time has passed, the fact that one of the robots says that it does not know what a B-cube is and that it has never seen one.

In addition, Rebecca's b-cube is really VERY damaged and most likely, despite the advanced technologies they will have after all those years, they will struggle to find intact video material inside that really shows what happened.

Also always on the b-cube and behind of itwe see the inscription "Edens Zero", the name of the demon king's ship,which will then become Shiki's ship.

And now the question comes spontaneously.

Why would Rebecca have to write Edens Zero's name behind her b-cube?

The answer is actually it could be easier than you think.

Rebecca had the name of the Edens Zero written on her b-cube because she became the queen of that ship before she died.

Calm, calm, calm, I'll explain everything!

If you think about it, it would also make sense that Shiki and Rebecca were found dead together.

Maybe before their death, Shiki and Rebecca developed their relationship to the point of actually becoming a couple and they decided to get married.

And from her marriage with Shiki, Rebecca would not only become Shiki's wife, but also the Edens Zero's Demon Queen.

If we follow this hypothesis we can also say that Mashima has already given us a signal about it...

More precisely in the color cover of chapter 19.

As we see in this cover (but also in a good chunk of chapters) Shiki and Rebecca wear the same clothes.

But those clothes are different from the others of the EZ Crew.

But I don't want to dwell so much on clothes as on Shiki and Rebecca themselves.

As we see in this cover the only one to be seated is Shiki.

And he's sitting on his throne (rightly, it's his throne) but next to him there's Rebecca. (And Pino but let's dwell only on Rebecca).

Rebecca is yes, standing like Weisz Witch and Pino, but she is literally leaning gently on the throne of Shiki.

She touches it but she's not sitting on it.

This is a very small but particular detail, because it makes us understand (always following this theory) that sooner or later Rebecca "will sit on the throne just like Shiki" because she will become queen thanks her marriage with him.

So ... Why put the Edens Zero's Name behind the b-cube?

First of all to demonstrate a certain loyalty to the ship as a friend of her crew members, but above all to show that that ship belongs in part to her.

Second, to have a certain "security".

Rebecca always runs with her b-cube with her and certainly even during the time of her death she had the b-cube with her.

And the fact that the name is behind the b-cube and maybe not at the side of it is not accidental.

Surely during the course of history Shiki and Rebecca will meet in front of a lot of enemies who want to take them out.

So putting the name of the Edens Zero behind would have been the certainty of having gone unnoticed by these enemies in some way when she and Shiki were off the ship (therefore "vulnerable"), and maybe being passed off as an ordinary couple and not the demon king and demon queen.

But it would also have been the security of being recognized in the event of premature death.

If you think about it is something that even the pirates did in real life,that of writing in their jewelry (especially the earrings) the place of belonging and / or the place where they wanted to be buried.

Seeing the risks they were taking, Rebecca could have thought of a similar thing to do with her b-cube and write the name of the ship of which she was the queen.

So if anything had happened to them at least she would have had the security that someone finding them would also find her b-cube, he would turn it over and read "Edens Zero" thus having a clue from which to start to reconstruct the whole puzzle of what happened.

But you will now ask yourself "Why did Rebecca have to think about such mature decisions?" but we'll talk about this soon.

First I want to dwell first on WHERE the Shicca have been found dead.

or rather ... where they were... "reborn."

In chapter 14 we come to know this:

Therefore, anyone who encounters the Mother can be reborn in the form of a new life.

And do you know where the Shicca are found dead?

Take a good look at this detail.

Exactly, their bodies are found on the Mother!

Therefore, Shiki and Rebecca arrived at the Mother and were reborn!

And their bodies is just what remains from their rebirth. (probably the mother takes people's souls to revive them)

And this also explains this phrase of Shiki when he sees the mother's hologram.

He very vaguely remembers the Mother because in an another life he met her.

It's really TOO serious while he says it, you can see he's not kidding.

So yes, the shicca are dead but at the same time they are reborn and Rebecca's b-cube can help us somehow rebuild to history.

But ... what does Xiao Mei have to do with all this? Why should it be the Shicca baby?

Well, the time has come to talk about why Rebecca would make all those mature choices for her protection and Shiki's.

As I said Shiki and Rebecca could already be married at the time of their rebirth.

And you know no .... especially when you get married you also think about building a family.

In the case of Shiki and Rebecca there would also be some pressure because they are still the King and Queen, and sooner or later the need to leave the ship, the title of "Demon King / Queen" and the riches of the ship to someone, exactly like the demon king did with Shiki.

Therefore, during those choices and especially during her rebirth, Rebecca was probably PREGNANT.

As I said Shiki and Rebecca could already be married at the time of their death so it is very likely that Rebecca was pregnant during her rebirth.

Pregnant with a little girl.

Pregnant with that child who will become Xiao Mei.

And as I'm saying, we're talking about Shicca's reborn.

This means that the ones we know in the manga are the Shicca reborn after the death of the previous ones.

So the Shicca that preceded "ours shicca" are none other than the Shicca found dead on Mother 20,000 years later.

And now you ask, "But why would Rebecca have to be put at risk so she was pregnant?" and above all "How is it possible that the shicca found dead have been found so long and above all that the b-cube is found to be the same model as "normal" Rebecca's?

I honestly asked myself too, and in fact for quite some time I was left with the doubt that these two questions would contradict my theory.

But then I re-read the chapters 5 and 11.

In chapter 5 when she learns that on Norma are 50 years back (X442) than normal (X492) Rebecca says this.

She's says that She haven't even born yet in.

And this is true because Rebecca should be around 17/18 years old so she should have been born in X474/ X475.

However we do not know what happened during those 32/33 years before her birth and above all we do not know how long the Mother takes to revive a new life.

Knowing moreover from Xiao mei herself that "time in this story is not very valuable" we can therefore assume that the Mother takes at least 30 years to revive a new life.

And that therefore the shicca found dead on the Mother died about 33 years earlier from the actual birth of the new Rebecca and Shiki.

This means that the Shicca found dead on the Mother died in X442 and should be born (if we calculate that they will have been 18 and 19 at the time of their death) around X423 and X424.

Exactly the same period in both the Weisz Steiner (the old and young one) were born.

And as for the two Weisz, the dead Shiki and Rebecca and the "normal" ones are four different people.

So the dead Shiki is different from the Shiki we know and the dead Rebecca is different from the Rebecca we know.

And even Xiao Mei, if she were really Shicca's daughter, would be the daughter of the dead Shicca and not our Shicca.

Therefore Xiao Mei could have been born 33 years before the story we know, in X442.

Also it is plausible that even the old Weisz had been a member of the old Edens Zero in which there were the Shicca found dead as a demon King and Queen, which would have made the young Weisz go with the new Shicca.

Furthermore, it is plausible that the old Weisz in his youth was in love with the old Rebecca, and maybe for her he also stopped looking at other women, but that after his death he never recovered and decided to close himself in his life as a professor and he only allowed himself to go to bed with other women every now and then, maybe then finding the love again in the Bunny Girl with whom we see him together.

Interestingly he has "adopted" as if he were a daughter Rebecca when she was a child and repaired Happy, but the child and the cat do not live with the doctor.

As we know, Norma was really a dying planet ...

but why not go to Bluegarden with Rebecca and Happy?

Well, but because old Weisz understood that the one in front of him was the reborn version of old Rebecca he loved in the past.

Although more than 30 years had passed Weisz still felt remorse for not having saved either Rebecca and Xiao Mei that time, and above all for having had to abandon Shiki from the Mother, losing a friend, the beloved woman and the daughter that they were having in a single blow of the same in a short time.

Therefore always have Rebecca, (especially so young) with him, would be living constantly with his walking past,that's why he wanted to keep her away from him.

But now we come to a question that you will surely be doing.

How could Xiao Mei actually be born?

We have a clue from her with this sentence.

We therefore know with certainty that Xiao Mei was reborn but that on the condition of her rebirth and her powers she would not have known where the Mother was.

It is therefore very likely that Rebecca found dead on Mother was pregnant with Xiao Mei at the time of her rebirth.

We also know that the mother can fulfill wishes as well as revive, so it is very plausible that during the journey to get on the mother, Rebecca's pregnancy has worsened and that, during a miscarriage, Rebecca died of a complication.

Rebecca then would never have been able to meet the Mother as was her and Shiki's desire ... but Shiki did.

After the death of Rebecca and her daughter, Shiki made sure that the bodies remained in Edens Zero ship until they arrived at the place where the Mother was, let him leave together with the two corpses to the point where the Mother was from the members of the edens zero and who has asked as a desire to revive him, Rebecca and their child.

However, if Shiki and Rebecca were already young adults when they were born again, Xiao Mei was born dead.

Therefore, Shiki and Rebecca were reborn 33 years later as humans though.

Xiao Mei instead received a "grace" from Mother, who made her an immortal and omniscient being but could no longer be human like her parents.

And being an oracle of the time, Xiao Mei knows what happened to her parents and what will happen to the "reborn" version of the same, but she experiences it with a certain detachment knowing that she is different from them and that our Shiki and Rebecca most likely they will never know the truth.

Or at least if they know it they won't be able to do much more about it.

This is why Xiao Mei always seems to not want to say much about her and wants to be taken as a simple storyteller.

And that's why Xiao Mei is presented to us at the beginning of the chapter 5,after the 4 when we know about the Shicca's death.

Despite everything she says that one day we will know who she is, this means that sooner or later we will know not only that it is an oracle of time but also her true identity.

It is also plausible that Xiao Mei's little body did not find itself together with that of its parents' because during the time of the abortion she was so small that her ossicles were lost with time and the decompression.

If you also include what I told you before about the b-cube found on Rebecca's body, then we can hypothesize that at the time of her rebirth on her corpse (brought by Shiki togheter with their dauguter's and himself) her b-cube was still around her neck.

And that the B-cube had the name of Edens Zero behind it.

So that what was born as a "clue" in the case of an untimely death due to enemies, has become a clue to understand how and when the ribirth Shiki and Rebecca died but above all that they were part of the Edens Zero ship.

However, there may be a new problem.

Why Xiao Mei, if she's Shiki and Rebecca's daughter has red eyes while Shiki and Rebecca have black and blue eyes?

The only plausible answer that comes to mind is that during her abortion, Xiao Mei was not fully formed (and therefore Rebecca's pregnancy was more or less the first few months) and that therefore her eyes were not yet formed.

Therefore, during her rebirth Xiao Mei has taken over all the genetic heritage of her parents ... except for her eyes.

She has not taken over the genetic heritage of the parents for the eyes either because when she died she had not yet formed them.... and it is probably because now her eyes show she everything she knows as an oracle of the time.

So they are red to show that her eyes are her "power".

For the rest, it is simply enough to compare many Shicca images with Xiao Mei's few appearances in the manga to realize that they are physically very similar in some respects.

(Having exceeded the limit of 10 photos per post I will probably do a second post below this to show you where, at least in my opinion, this physical similarity between the three is practically obvious.)

So here's all my theory about Xiao Mei as Shicca Baby, I hope you enjoyed it and let me know what you think about it!😊

nyan nyan minna ~ 💙

[crazy-loca-blog]

Personal thoughts on The Royal Heir, Ch. 9

Note: As the title says, these are just personal opinions on Choices books and chapters. Of course, you may agree or disagree with them, I only use this platform to express my thoughts on what I read every week and what I’d like to see in the next chapters, because none of my friends play Choices so I have no one to comment the books with.

I know I’m late again… there’s something about Saturday’s chapters that I just can’t write these posts earlier... I promise I’ll try to have a better posting schedule.

Some weeks ago, I questioned the fact that we were spending so much time in the Walker ranch. That’s when someone reminded me (I can’t find your user name now, but thank you!) that this series was originally meant to be a short book that would be focused on Bertrand and Savannah’s wedding. This explanation not only made a lot of sense, but it also made me have a lot of questions.

This fact would also explain why going to Auvernal just felt so out of place to me. This is nothing against Hana or Olivia (both were simply amazing this time), but about the trip itself. It is like when you’re in the middle of you holidays and your boss calls you because you’re needed at the office… and you go. It felt unnatural, like “out of plot”. Also, even though I played the chapter twice, I don’t think I fully understood the idea behind it.

I know Isabella wants us to arrange a marriage… or that’s what they’re making us believe. Being the ruler of a nation with such a military power makes you unpredictable by nature, but Isabella seems to hide her real intentions and the real truth about Auvernal pretty well. How a kingdom that is shows itself as “poorer than Cordonia” has such a modern facade and such a military power? Why is she suddenly so interested in Cordonia’s heir when she could just attack Cordonia to get what she wants? What’s the real reason why Constantine decided to break the relationship between Cordonia and Auvernal without even considering that his own wife was an Auvernese? Why would a “girls day” have a military parade… in a gala dress? That was a serious intimidation strategy.

Luckily, if you used your diamonds (a wise choice, in my opinion) we had Olivia with us… and Liam knows it. This is not a foreign affairs thing (in that case, we could have taken Kiara with us). This is about supremacy and power. And who’s more intimidating than Olivia in Cordonia? No one. I’m beginning to think that Liam and Olivia are into something we don’t know yet, and that’s the reason why we don’t see her as often as we’d like to. Cordonia is known for being a rich kingdom whose traditions are related to apples. Cordonia is not known for having a powerful military force. And I think Liam and Olivia are trying to change that somehow. Otherwise, I don’t see the importance of getting to know that Bradshaw got his medals without being on the battlefield (something that clearly shows he’s not the type of person he wants us to believe he is).

In the end, Isabella showed she’s not as smart and perfect as she seems to be at first sight. She didn’t hide that she married her husband for convenience, and that she’s not into motherhood despite having two kids. She also showed no manners when she questioned Hana, her diplomacy knowledge and her love life, and when she questioned our MC’s abilities to raise an heir. And she showed zero military abilities when compared to Olivia. So… she’s definitely all talk and no action.

I’m not quite sure if I enjoyed this chapter as much as I’ve enjoyed the rest of the book so far. And I’m beginning to see where the real problem is. When PB decided to go from a single book based on a wedding to a series based on an heir, they should have made some major changes, as the focus wouldn’t be in the wedding anymore, but in the baby. But they didn’t. Instead, it seems like they took the lazy route by adding new things to what was already written… and they left a mess that I personally still enjoy… but a mess anyway.

Now I’m beginning to wonder if changing the name of the series was a smart move. Do you think people would be complaining so much about this series if they named it “The Royal Romance, Book 4” instead of “The Royal Heir”? I don’t think so. It even makes more sense this way. It wasn’t necessary to change the whole title of a series just to introduce the heir topic. They could have introduced the topic slowly in the first fourth book and then make it the main plot in the second fifth book. They could have shown the same struggles our MC is having to get pregnant (by the way, the writers are doing a fantastic job on covering these issues… our MC is scared, vulnerable… she’s wondering if she’ll actually get pregnant… she doubts on her abilities to become a mother… that’s how real life works, guys!) and then in the second fifth book they could have introduced all these kings and queens that seem to be so out of context here.

Anyway… I know the writers make a huge effort and work hard to get things done. However, I think that crossing these two very, very different plots in the same book (this is like mixing water and oil, to be honest) will cause them a big headache in the end.