#but syscourse is what i had in mind when i made the meme

[quincy-clover]

[sophieinwonderland]

Okay, I want to break down this post that made it to the top of the syscourse tag, especially since it was vagueing an earlier conversation with me.

For the first point, the term "plural" was used specifically to distance itself from OSDD/DID, as an alternative to "multiple" which was more used in OSDD/DID spaces at the time. I assume then that this statement isn't about the term "plural" being intrinsically linked to DID/OSDD but rather, the concept of being multiple beings in one body itself.

And that, I feel, is an equally problematic claim. Spiritual possession has existed throughout the entire world in nearly every culture throughout human history. In contrast, OSDD/DID were only recognized as medical disorders in the past couple hundred years or so. Most plurality throughout history has been considered spiritual in nature. OSDD/DID systems don't own a monopoly on the concept, nor do they even make up the majority of people who could technically fall under the plural umbrella.

As for this hypothetical, sure, it can happen in some case. But OSDD and DID are already highly comorbid with a large number of other disorders. I legitimately wonder how many endo-identifying traumagenic systems with PTSD symptoms with suicidal ideation who aren't in therapy already would suddenly decide to seek help if they knew they had a dissociative disorder on top of that.

Most of the time, this is just stacking one extra diagnosis onto a pile. And if someone's not getting treated for other issues, why would they get treated for this one?

There's obviously value in getting the diagnosis for treatment purposes, but this seems like it could usually be worked out between therapists and patients naturally over the course of treatment for other conditions.

(By the way, I believe the statistic that this is referencing is that 70% of outpatients diagnosed with DID had attempted suicide. This is not a suicide rate. That's obviously way too high and I'm not saying this to minimize the statistic, but because I want to keep facts straight. Also, this study was focused strictly on DID, and did not include OSDD systems as the quote suggests.)

It's never just been about how this hurts non-disordered plurals. That's narrow-minded. It's about how psychiatry as a whole handles and should handle mental health.

The focus of mental health programs is helping people reach a point that's healthy for themselves, not just stopping them from being "different."

For tulpamancy, specifically, many tulpamancers report improvements in symptoms of other disorders because of their plurality. It's likely the same would prove true for other non-OSDD/DID systems If a non-OSDD/DID system is seeking treatment for reasons unrelated to their plurality, trying to diagnose them with a dissociative disorder and convince them that a system that's been overall beneficial to their mental health is part of a disorder can be extremely harmful to the system's mental health.

In the case of someone with MDD who create a tulpa for companionship, the plurality should be seen as a form of treatment to an existing condition, not a disorder, and attempting to treat the plurality could deprive a "DISORDERED" person something that's helping them to heal.

But let's go beyond that and talk about religious considerations. Like I said, the first plurality was spiritual. Should all instances of possession where a spiritual identity takes over be considered pathological? What about voices?

The book When God Talks Back describes religious practices where certain evangelical Christian groups speak to "God" until they can have two-way conversations with it in ways that resemble mind-voice communication. (Also mentioned here.) Should we deem this form of voice-hearing inherently pathological due to similarities to certain hallucinatory experiences, even though the evangelicals (like the tulpamancers) report positive health benefits with no notable impairment?

I know some atheists have the meme that religion is a mental illness, but at what point would medicalizing all experiences of voice hearing and dissociative identity states become religious discrimination?

Finally, let's come back to how this affects disordered systems. You say that you're not saying systems need final fusion, and that's great. But you're supporting the same mentality that leads to that, by pathologizing the experience of plurality itself.

If plurality is inherently pathological, then why wouldn't final fusion be the ideal option for healing 100% of the time? That's the logic used by singlets who think final fusion is the only valid goal for therapy, and don't understand why any system would choose to remain plural.

When you shift the definition of a disorder to any experience of being different, you then subsequently shift the goal of therapy to reaching normalcy and fitting in with society rather than achieving a personal standard of health. And that's sanism.

In the end, I think we're lucky that the American Psychiatric Association is intelligent enough to acknowledge and recognize that not all presentations of similar symptoms should be considered pathological in the DSM-5, and it's integral that we continue to defend that going forward against people who would seek to medicalize non-medical experiences.

[memoriesofthecircularroom]

Fuck it. I can’t stand this big thought tonight, and this started as a vent blog anyway. Discussions of triggers below, and my experiences as both a pro-endo and an anti-endo.

Endogenics, Mixed-Origin, Pro-Endos: you may read, and interact, but attempt to syscourse on this post and I will lose my goddamn mind.

So. I joined this community - and by that I mean the tumblr tags for DID, OSDD, and Plurality - around 2016 or 2017. This was soon after my system “came back.” See, I hadn’t known I was a system in high school, but I can tell looking back that That is what was wrong. And in college, I heard about DID. I struggled for weeks after that, researching it and understanding more and thinking “huh. That’s not normal?” And then, soon after, I became aware of ALL the alters all at once, and we began consciously switching, dissociating, the works.

When I joined tumblr back then, it was to find others like me. To understand what the fuck was happening to me. I reblogged memes, tried to laugh things off, and understood next to nothing that was happening. I still couldn’t believe I had trauma.

I used words incorrectly. We said we “integrated” when we didn’t - the best we can come up with now is “mass dormancy for a bit.” We didn’t understand endogenic or traumagenic or any of that.

All we knew was, when we said we had “created alters,” people got fucking pissed at us. Understandably - I was claiming to have Created My TRAUMA BASED System. By this time, I recognized that my overbearing childhood HAD been traumatic. I was the classic DID OSDD System But I Made My Headmates Guys.

I know I didn’t create those alters now - even though, to this day, it feels like I did. Because that’s not how this disorder is works. You don’t create alters with OSDDDID. But back then, I was being told my experiences weren’t real. I was being fakeclaimed, harassed, told I was just trolling and RPing, etc etc. to this day, that behavior has fucked with me, and I’m still so angry and mad at the people who did that to me - at the *anti-endos* who did that to me.

But I still grew, and changed. At that time, I was radically inclusive. I forget where along the line I started to change. I know alrer race was a big topic to tip me out of endo spaces. We have two alters who don’t match the body’s skin tone. They are not POC. And I felt like saying that would kick me out of my safe endo spaces. The people who DIDNT hate me. But I disagreed with that. I disagreed with the people who didn’t hate me.

It’s why I started listening to anti-endos more. I never felt like I fit in endo spaces. I always felt so lonely. While these people were ranting about how they were just as valid as me because they had alters too, I was forgetting to turn in my senior thesis because of my dissociation. I was working on 3 hours of sleep a night, trying to catch up on work I had missed because I needed to relearn it all again. I was crashing my car into someone else’s while going 30+ miles an hour because I was trying to switch with everyone else to stay awake - that’s the logic I had back then. I could have died. We, to this day, flinch in cars.

None of what I was going through was relatable - none of the bad stuff, anyways. I couldn’t speak to any of the endos about this. I couldn’t explain how badly I was hurting - because Anti Endos Are The Ones Who Are Sad. I felt like I wasn’t allowed to be doing poorly because of my system - I was just doing poorly because of stress. Because of life.

It’s hazy, now, when I started changing. But I know I started speaking my opinions out more. Speaking out against misinfo. It started small - mild corrections here and there. And… anti-endos agreed with me. And Endogenics didn’t.

I never agreed with you all in the first place. I just convinced myself I did. And to this day, that ideology has hurt me. Even now, I am seeing the harm what used to be MY community has done. I’m seeing the harm they wish on me - someone who still feels strongly they “created” their alters. Someone who doesn’t fit into “traumagenic” experiences as easily. Someone who, as anti-endos have admitted, is hard to explain!

But anti-endos… Endogenics… those aren’t the problem. It’s shitty people that are the problem.

I’m just choosing to stop surrounding myselves with shitty people.