#character: yang wen chang

[movielosophy]

Destined | She wants me.

[withthewindinherfootsteps]

I sometimes see the opinion that MXTX took the clichéd tropes she'd critiqued in Scum Villain, and played them straight in MDZS. But though a lot of them appear in MDZS, I'd argue that none are actually played straight at all!

The main point of MDZS's tropes is subversion. Yes, WWX has a 'tragic backstory', even an arguably overused one (orphaned by his parents at a young age, forced to live on the streets with nobody to rely on, etc) – but how things differ in how it's used. Tragic backstories are normally used to build sympathy for a character, to make us care and get invested in them. But... we're never actually shown any of those street days, we're never shown and never dwell upon how much he suffered during them. They're only really mentioned in passing and whenever dogs come up! If the goal was to make us feel bad for WWX, this would be very ineffective writing. But what's actually important here isn't that WWX went through tragedies – it's how he doesn't let the tragedies he went through define him. He doesn't dwell on them, the narrative doesn't dwell on them, it's never used to earn sympathy points... because what defines WWX is his choices and how he chooses to act, not a backstory completely out of his control. What gets us invested in him is his personality and the character writing of MXTX, not tragic events used as a substitute for identity.

And this trope treatment fits extremely well with WWX's personality itself – he's someone who 'forgets the pain as soon as the wound has healed'*, but also who actively chooses to focus on the present because you can't change the past; someone who holds the belief that 'gains and losses [should] remain uncommented on' when choosing what to do.

The use of the tragic backstory isn't the only thing that's subverted, either – the other main thing is the 'blackening' of the protagonist, and its impact on the protagonist's fall. After being thrown into the Burial Mounds, on a surface level it does seem like this blackening has occurred: the first thing we see when he returns is his gruesome torture of the Wen cultivators; he's 'forsaken' traditional cultivation in favour of an 'evil but more powerful' path; and frankly, Sunshot-era WWX is terrifying. But MDZS is not a blackening story, and so the events of the Burial Mounds aren't used as a catalyst for that purpose. Though it's true that WWX's not entirely the same person he was before (because how could be be?), underneath it all, his morals, worldview and core** stay the same. Though gruesome, his revenge is directed towards the ones who wronged him, not those past that and certainly not the entire world. His experience in the Burial Mounds doesn't lead to him being some evil, blackened overlord... like everyone says he is at the start! That's subverted, because again, WWX's values and choices are more important to the story than genre conventions.

But the most crucial thing? What leads to WWX's downfall isn't any blackening! It isn't any vengeance or morally dubious actions***– he was praised for those things during the Sunshot Campaign! No, what leads to his downfall is something completely unrelated to that, something which would've disappeared had the trope been played straight. It's him doing what's right by defending the Wens, it's him following his moral code when it opposes the world's, it's him standing up to the injustice of others – not others standing up to the injustice of him. That's the subversion here.

(Also, once again, the fall of Lotus Pier, the Burial Mound, etc, aren't used for sympathy points – and if it was relevant, they wouldn't have been used to excuse any actions, either. Using tragic events as an excuse for doing bad things is critiqued many times in MDZS, through characters like Xue Yang and Jin Guangyao. And that's not exactly a trope subversion, but it is a critique of badly handled 'excuses'.)

These are by no means all the tropes MDZS subverts – the nature of guidao vs the usual nature of modao being another very major one – but they're the main ones that feature in Scum Villain.

So, though at first glance MDZS seems to play the tropes MXTX critiqued there straighter, it's not a simple case of using them as cliches, and we see that by how they're used to impact the narrative, and how that differs from what they're traditionally used for. MDZS doesn't fall back into clichés Scum Villain satirised – it's the subversion to Scum Villain's exploration and critique.

--

*Which I know is generally used negatively, to describe someone not learning a lesson from a punishment, but it really describes WWX in general, too. He doesn't dwell on that pain, he does his best to move on from it.

**...heh

***And, because it's often debated – whatever the morality/culpability of Nightless City is doesn't even matter! The events happened at a pledge conference against him that was already taking place. WWX's actions there didn't make people want to kill him because that was explicitly happening beforehand.

[canary3d-obsessed]

Restless Rewatch: The Untamed, Episode 40 part one

(Masterpost) (Pinboard)  (whole thing on AO3)

Warning! Spoilers for All 50 Episodes!

Agree to Disagree

The juniors are arguing because Sizhui said that some demonic cultivators might have good intentions. According to Jin Ling that means that Sizhui is celebrating the murders of Jin Ling's parents, or something.

(Actor) Peixin Qi uses forehead-squinching as a primary acting tool, which would be perfectly fine if he wasn't playing a character with a red dot between his eyebrows.

He goes on to say that Wei Wuxian is the evillest of them all, way eviller than Xue Yang. Which in sheer numbers of victims, is probably a fair point. But Xue Yang was way more of a dick.

Ouyang Zichen is all of us when he asks Jin Ling to chill the fuck out.

Sizhui apologizes even though Jingyi is ready to throw down on his behalf. It's unclear if this helps, because Hanguang-Jun chooses this moment to arrive. He immediately defuses the situation with the power of stinkeye.

(more after the cut!)

More Than Meets the Eye

Many differences between CQL and the novel are adaptational choices - Wei Wuxian and Lan Wangji's deep, early friendship; the yin iron plot, Jiang Cheng being loveable, etc. Changes like that, I normally don't point out, because adaptations are AUs, in my view, and can be enjoyed separately from their sources.

Other changes are driven by censorship, however, and in those cases I think it's fair to look to the novel and its less-censored adaptations for a peek at what's happening off camera. Particularly when there are scenes and interactions in The Untamed where the show seems to be deliberately pointing to the novel to fill in the blanks.

This moment on the stairs is one such scene. In the show, Lan Wangji carries liquor upstairs to Wei Wuxian, and the juniors react with shock; Jingyi drops his chicken out of his mouth and Sizhui stuffs it back in there.

They are shocked because he bought liquor, and that's the extent of their reaction.

In the Donghua, Manhua, and Novel, Lan Wangji is dragging Wei Wuxian up those stairs, having drunkenly tied him up with his headband.

First he stops to show his prize to the juniors, who have basically the same reaction in every version of the story, including Jinygi dropping his chicken and Sizhui stuffing it back in his mouth. In the novel, however, Sizhui does that to stop Jingyi from saying anything to Lan Wangji & his captive.

The liquor, in all versions, is a clear sign of how much Lan Wangji has mellowed since his youth. In case we need another reminder, we learn here that he let Sizhui get a tattoo on his finger.

Every parent will tell you, you gotta pick your battles.

Returning to to the timeline in which no visible bondage is occurring, Wei Wuxian is sitting around in the room upstairs waiting for Lan Wangji. Wasn't he busy talking to Lan Xichen when Lan Wangji went into the inn to shut the kids up? How did he get upstairs before Lan Wangji? Never mind, never mind.

Wei Wuxian goes to look out the window and Wen Ning appears, hanging off the roof like a dork, or like someone who has seen that one Spider-Man movie and is hoping for some upside-down kissing.

Wen Ning asks if Jin Ling is the kid he halfway orphaned, and Wei Wuxian says yes.

Then he hears Lan Wangji coming, and Wen Ning falls to the ground for no reason.

Wei Wuxian urgently shoos Wen Ning away, trying to hide him from Lan Wangji.

Wen Ning acts way too clueless for someone who spends so much time third-wheeling.

There's no in-world reason for Wei Wuxian to hide Wen Ning; They fought side-by side in Yi City, and they were all together for A-Qing's burial. There's not a problem between him and Lan Wangji.

Once again, the novel provides the missing information. Wei Wuxian is hiding Wen Ning because Lan Wangji is hella jealous even when he's sober. Wen Ning fell to the ground because drunk Lan Wangji leapt through the window and kicked him.

In the novel, Wei Wuxian & Lan Wangji's evening ends with a game of tag that's loaded with sexual tension, followed by a kiss...followed by Lan Wangji literally knocking himself out to avoid taking advantage of Wei Wuxian.

Lan Wangji does everything in the most extreme way possible.

In the live action, the most sexually charged part of their interaction is this positively sinful hip thrust that Wei Wuxian gives when he turns around at the window.

If you've seen Xiao Zhan dancing, you know this is not an accident.

Unlike the novel's perpetually clueless protagonist, live-action Wei Wuxian clearly knows he's on a date right now.

...and he's enjoying every minute of it. He's delighted that Lan Wangji has provided *good* liquor, rather than the rotgut he's able to afford himself.

As he pours for Wei Wuxian, Lan Wangji points out that both of their brothers know who WWX is at this point. Wei Wuxian isn't happy about it but he says they can't do anything. Which is...not correct.

He tries once again to get Lan Wangji to tell him how he recognized him, and Lan Wangji responds by asking him why his memory sucks so much.

Wei Wuxian says "you try dying by falling from a great height TWICE and see how your brain likes it." That's what he should have said, anyway.

This whole thing about his memory isn't actually important in the live action, even though it keeps being mentioned. He's forgotten the name of their song because he was delirious when he heard it; otherwise his memory seems perfectly fine.

I think this might be another instance of the live action giving a wink to novel readers in the audience, because in the novel Wei Wuxian forgot Lan Wangji's confession of love. Which, like WangXian, was presented in a cave while WWX was delirious; Lan Wangji is not great at choosing his moment.

Anyway, this may be why Lan Wangji seems to take Wei Wuxian's memory problems personally, despite having very little in-show reason to be upset.

Lan Wangji changes the subject by asking Wei Wuxian to go to Jinlintai with him, to search for Nie Mingjue's head. Sounds like a perfect romantic getaway for a boy and his favorite necromancer.

Just as Wei Wuxian starts to ask what Zewu-Jun will think, Zewu-Jun and his cheekbones come into the room.

He's taken time to think things over--a concept the rest of the cultivation world could stand to learn about, incidentally--and he agrees that they should investigate.

Note: the non-CQL illustrations come from the MDZS manhua, which is complete online (mangadex.org includes the uncensored extra bits), and is about halfway through being published in English by Seven Seas. It's delightful and I highly recommend it.

Bonus: Lan Wangji and Sizhui enjoying some tie-in cup noodles. (A few in-character ads are included in the Viki version of the show.)

[whetstonefires]

A fantastic thing about Wangxian is that they both have vast, bulletproof, towering edifices of self-esteem.

They know they're hot shit, they know almost nobody can compare; nothing changes their minds about this at any point. Even at their lowest they think highly of themselves; they're confident in their capabilities and judgments, and that they can outperform their peers.

They're arrogant, and they can back that shit up, and they have backed it up so often they're unshakeable on the subject of their own excellence.

This enormity of self-esteem is not at all incompatible with compromised self-worth, especially on Wei Wuxian's part, because the titanic self-destructive hubris that combination instills is the engine that drives his epic tragic backstory. But that's different! Thinking you're expendable and thinking you're inferior are separate judgements, that can certainly influence but don't force one another.

And one of the reasons this is cool is how the story holds them up against characters that are mostly pretty confident if not necessarily secure about their own value, but have very fragile self-esteem.

In varying ways, this is more or less what's up with Su She, Jiang Cheng, and Wen Chao.

Xue Yang also, but he's so weird about it it feels wrong to group him with those three.

Jin Guangyao is hard to place on this scale, because he shares wangxian's overweening sense of being better and more capable than other people as a rule, but he's not quite secure about it, and he shares Xue Yang and Su She's insane levels of conviction that he deserves to get what he feels is his due, at any cost to anybody.

But he definitely has a more complex relationship to that belief than either of them; su she's just like 'it's not fair!!!!!!!!!' about literally anything that doesn't go his way and xue yang is like 'obviously my finger is worth more than hundreds of lives because. it was mine.'

[baoshan-sanren]

best cdramas I’ve watched since the last one of these posts in 2023 (and some I’m still looking forward to seeing)

A League of Nobleman (watch on WeTV VIP | watch on AppleTV | watch on Viki | watch on bilibili | watch on YouTube) Adapted from the novel "The Mystery of Zhang Guo" (张公案) by Da Feng Gua Guo (大风刮过) starring Jing BoRan, Song WeiLong, Hong Yao, Guo Cheng and Wang Duo. Definitely gay, but in like a very focused, we-have-a-mystery-to-solve way. Loved the acting and the plot; cannot believe people actually gave Song Weilong shit for his acting in this drama. He was aMAzing. The downside is that the editing grew progressively sloppier as the drama progressed, and although majority of the visuals were very satisfying, I never realized how crappy the quality of the light was until I tried gifing some of the scenes. The upside is Jing BoRan holding kittens. Enough Said. 7/10

The Blood of Youth (watch on Viki | watch on YouTube) Adapted from the novel "Shao Nian Ge Xing" (少年歌行) by Zhou Mu Nan (周木楠) starring Li HongYi, Liu XueYi and Ao RuiPeng. Love this goddamn drama. I adopted the entire cast within the first 3 episodes and then I spent the next 37 terrified that half of them would get killed off. There’s def some major character death in this drama my chickens, so keep that in mind (and not a canonical death either, from what I understand). Anyway, this is my fave genre by far so I’m never really picky, but this drama is exhilarating and gorgeous from beginning to end. Highly recommend. 9/10

New Life Begins (watch on iQIYI | watch on Viki | watch on YouTube) Adapted from the web novel "Qing Chuan Ri Chang" (清穿日常) by Duo Mu Mu Duo (多木木多) starring Bai JingTing and Tian XiWei. Just sweet and fluffy. The plot is easy and devoid of complexities, but very satisfying nonetheless. The acting is definitely on another level. The entire cast has bonkers chemistry, and it’s about time someone made good use of Bai Jingting’s comedy potential. One of the top 5 easy viewing dramas on my rewatch list.  8/10

The Legendary Life of Queen Lau (watch on Viki | watch on YouTube) Adapted from the web novel "Huang Hou Liu Hei Pang" (皇后刘黑胖) by Ge Yang (戈鞅) starring Li JiaQi and Li HongYi. Loved this. Although it doesn’t shy away from difficult subjects, this is basically a comedy from beginning to end. Not gonna lie, I mainly gave this a go for Li Hongyi, but it’s hard to even notice him when Li Jiaqi is in the room. There’s no shame in being overshadowed by superior talent :) 7/10

(yeah, after all this, I rewatched Nirvana In Fire again)

Under the Microscope (watch on Apple TV | watch on Bilibili | watch on iQIYI VIP | watch on Viki) Adapted from the novel "Xian Wei Jing Xia De Da Ming" (显微镜下的大明) by Ma Bo Yong (马伯庸) starring Zhang RuoYun and Wang Yang. Continuously impressed by Zhang RuoYun’s skills. This drama is 90% grit and tension. Drool-worthy visuals. Interesting plot. Sound mixing that gives me a Mo Ran style boner. Make your friends watch it and they will hate you. 9/10

Till The End of The Moon (watch on YouTube | watch on Apple TV | watch on Viki) Adapted from the web novel "Hei Yue Guang Na Wen BE Ju Ben" (黑月光拿稳BE剧本) by Teng Luo Wei Zhi (藤萝为枝). Starring Luo Yunxi and Bai Lu. This was so breathtakingly gorgeous. The chemistry between the actors, the visuals, the special effects, the costumes, everything is stunning in this drama. The romance is by no means original, but still manages to draw you in. Absolutely worth watching at least once. 8/10

Still waiting on:

Immortality - based on danmei novel The Husky and His White Cat Shizun by 肉包不吃肉 starring Chen Feiyu and Luo Yunxi (you can think I’m a clown but you’d be wrong bc I’m a wholeass circus)

Winner Is King - based on the danmei novel Sha Po Lang by Priest starring Tan Jianci and Chen Zheyuan

Step By Step Lotus - based on historical novel Return to Ming Dynasty as Prince by 月关 starring Zhang Binbin and Luo Yunxi

Eternal Faith - based on danmei novel Heaven Official’s Blessing by Mo Xiang Tong Xiu starring Zhai Xiaowen and Zhang Linghe

Joy Of Life Season 2 - based on wuxia novel of the same name by 猫腻 starring Zhang Ruoyun and Li Qin

Story of Kunning Palace - based on the novel 坤宁 by 时镜 starring Bai Lu and Zhang LingHe

Flying Phoenix - based on danmei novel of the same name by 風弄 starring Dai Jingyao and Shu Yaxin

The Story of the Bat - based on danmei novel Bat by Feng Nong starring Mao Zijun and Zhang Yao

The Longest Promise - based on xianxia novel Zhu Yan by 沧月 starring Xiao Zhan, Ren Min, and Zhang Yunlong

Mysterious Lotus Casebook - based on wuxia novel 吉祥纹莲花楼 by Teng Ping 藤萍 starring Cheng Yi and Zeng ShunXi

Follow Your Heart - historical drama starring Song Yi and Luo Yunxi 

The Thirteen-Hongs in Canton - historical drama starring Zhu Yawen and Yu Haoming

White Cat Legend - based on manhua of the same name starring Ding Yuxi and Zhou Qi

[nemainofthewater]

Welcome to the 'Best Character with [X] surname' polls!

This is where I take several characters from different Chinese media (mostly cnovels and cdrama) and run a poll on which one is the 'best'. What does best mean? It's up to you! Whether you love them, are intrigued by their characters, love to hate them, or they're your '2 second blorbos whose personality you made up wholesale', these are all reasons for you to vote for your favs!

NB: the surnames are not exactly the same in all the cases, as often they will be a different character. I am, however, grouping them all together otherwise things got more complicated.

If you can't find a surname, it's because I couldn't find enough candidates (at least 3 from 3 distinct medias) to compete. Feel free to submit candidates!

I will be posting several polls at a time, so do come back and check this masterpost to remember which polls are ongoing, who the winners are, and who's coming up next!

Finished polls: Xing/Rong/Nan/Ren/Pan/Qu/Fu/Sui/Tan/You/Sima/Xuan/Chang/Xun/Shangguan/Jian/Qian/Shu/Xi/Yuwen/Cai/Sha/Yin/Ceng/Helian/Zeng/Lou/Mi/Ji/Ping/Tong/Tuoba/Ge/Murong/Hei/Niu/Tao/Si/Pang/Zi/Gongsun/Mao/Qing/Lian

Chi/Shan/Tian/Dao/Chao/Xin/Ran/Sang/Cang/Miao/Yao/Zang/Chong/Nangong/Kong/Hai/Deng/Kang/Jun/Chun/Gui/Peng/Gong/Dai/Bao/Bian/Leng/Xian/Kan/Hou/Shao/Kou/Zuo/Lai/Tie/Huan/Min/Xiong/Cen/Dou/Misc

There's only a certain number of hyperlinks that can be added per post, so the rest of the completed polls can now be found here

All the details of the individual polls under the readmore

An - posted 15/03/24 WINNER An Zhe

Bai - posted 28/02/24 WINNER Bai Fengxi

Baili - posted 22/03/24 WINNER Baili Qingmiao

Bao - posted 1/05/24 WINNER Bao Rongxing

Bi - posted 26/03/24 WINNER Bi Changfeng

Bian - posted 1/05/14 WINNER Bian Cheng

Cai - posted 7/04/24 WINNER Cai Quan

Cang - posted 23/04/24 WINNER Cang Jiumin

Cao - posted 8/02/24. WINNER - Cao Weining

Cen - posted 7/05/24 WINNEER Cen Xiao

Ceng - posted 8/04/24 WINNER Ceng Aiyu

Chang - posted 3/04/24 WINNER Chang Geng

Chao - posted 21/04/24 WINNER Chao Zi

Chen - posted 9/02/24 WINNER Chen Qingxu

Cheng - posted 10/03/24 WINNER Cheng Shaoshang

Chi - posted 19/04/24 WINNERS Chi Zhanggui and Chi Xiaochi

Chong - posted 25/04/24 WINNER Chong Ming

Chu - posted 12/03/24 WINNER Chu Wanning

Chun - posted 28/04/24 WINNER Chun Shen

Cui - posted 11/03/24 WINNER Madam Cui

Dai - posted 30/04/24 WINNER Dai Mubai

Dao - posted 20/04/24 WINNER Dao Mingsi

Deng - posted 27/04/24 WINNER Deng Kuan

Di - posted 16/02/24 WINNER Di Feisheng

Ding - posted 7/03/24 WINNER Ding Rong

Dong - posted 21/03/24 WINNER Dong Yi

Dongfang - posted 25/03/24 WINNER Dongfang Qingcang

Dou - posted 7/05/24 WINNER Dou Cheng

Du - posted 26/03/24 WINNER Du Cheng

Duan - posted 23/03/24 WINNER Duan Baiyue

Fan - posted 27/02/24 WINNER Fan Xian

Fang - posted 24/02/24 WINNER Fang Duobing

Fei - posted 20/03/24 WINNER Fei Du

Feng - posted 28/02/24 WINNER 'Other'

Fu - posted 31/03/24 WINNER Fu Yao

Gao - posted 13/02/24 WINNER Gao Xiaolian

Ge - posted 13/04/24 WINNER Ge Chen

Gong - posted 30/04/24 WINNER Gong Yu

Gongsun - posted 17/04/24 WINNER Gongsun Heng

Gu - posted 7/03/24 WINNER Gu Xiang

Guan - posted 17/03/24 WINNER Guan Hemeng

Gui - posted 29/04/24 WINNERS Gui Wen, Gui Yang, Gui Bai and 'Other'

Guo - posted 9/02/24 WINNER Guo Changcheng

Hai - posted 26/04/24 WINNER Hai Lanshi

Han - posted 17/03/24 WINNER Han Ying

Hao - posted 16/03/24 WINNER Hao Du

He - posted 22/03/24 WINNER He Xuan

Hei - posted 14/04/24 WINNER Hei Xiazi

Helian - posted 9/04/24 wINNER Helian Yi

Hong - posted 8/03/24 WINNER Hong Qigong

Hou - posted 3/05/24 WINNER Hou Bin

Hu - posted 6/03/24 WINNER Hu Tianying

Hua - posted 21/02/24 WINNER Hua Cheng

Huan - posted 6/05/24 WINNER Huan Xiaoyan

Huang - posted 20/03/24 WINNER Huang Shaotian

Huo - posted 25/02/24 WINNER Huo Xiuxiu

Ji - posted 11/04/24 WINNER Ji Xue

Jia - posted 18/03/24 WINNER Jia Kui

Jian - posted 4/04/24 WINNER Jian Buzhi

Jiang - posted 12/02/24 WINNER Jiang Cheng

Jiao - posted 27/03/24 WINNER Jiao Liqiao

Jin - posted 29/02/24 WINNER Jin Ling

Jing - posted 14/03/24 WINNER Jing Beiyuan

Jun - posted 28/04/24 WINNER 'Other"

Kan - posted 3/05/24 WINNER Kan Jian

Kang - posted 27/04/24 WINNER 'Other'

Kong - posted 26/04/24 WINNERS Kong Xiu and Alexis Kong

Kou - posted 4/05/24 WINNER Kou Baimen

Lai - posted 5/05/24 WINNER Lai Zhongshu

Lan - posted 23/02/24 WINNER Lan Wangji

Lei - posted 12/03/24 WINNER Lei Wujie

Leng - posted 2/05/24 WINNER Leng Yue

Li - posted 18/02/24 WINNER Li Lianhua

Lian - posted 18/04/24 WINNERS Lian Yufan and Lian Qiao

Liang - posted 13/03/24 WINNER 'Other'

Lin - posted 14/02/24 WINNER Lin Chen

Ling - posted 6/03/24 WINNER Ling Wen

Liu - posted 16/02/24 WINNER Liu Qingge

Long - posted 23/03/24 WINNER Long Zhi

Lou - posted 10/04/24 WINNER Lou Yao

Lu - posted 5/03/24 WINNER Lu Guang

Luo - posted 24/02/24 WINNER Luo Binghe

Ma - posted 13/03/24 WINNER Ma Xiuying

Mao - posted 17/04/24 WINNER Mao Panfeng

Mei - posted 14/02/24 WINNER Mei Changsu

Meng - posted 29/02/24 WINNER Meng Zhi

Mi - posted 10/04/24 WINER Mi Chong

Miao - posted 23/04/24 WINNER Miao Renfeng

Min - posted 6/05/24 WINNER Min Yunzhong

Ming - posted 26/02/24 WINNER Ming Yi

Misc - posted 7/05/24 WINNER Gongyi Xiao

Mo - posted 18/02/24 WINNER Mo Xuanyu

Mu - posted 22/02/24 WINNER Mu Nihuang

Murong - posted 13/04/24 WINNER Other

Nan - posted 29/03/24 WINNER Nan Feng

Nangong - posted 25/04/24 WINNER Nangong Si

Nie - posted 15/03/24 WINNER Nie Huaisang

Ning - posted 19/03/24 WINNER Ning Yingying

Niu - posted 14/04/24 WINNER Niu Chunmiao

Ouyang - posted 5/03/24 WINNER Ouyang Zizhen

Pan - posted 30/03/24 WINNER Pan Zi

Pang - posted 16/04/24 WINNER Pang Yizhi

Pei - posted 20/02/24 WINNER Pei Ming

Peng - posted 29/04/24 wINNER Peng Sanbian

Ping - posted 11/04/24 WINNER Ping An

Qi - posted 22/02/24 WINNER 'Other'

Qian - posted 5/04/24 WINNER Qian Jin

Qiao - posted 10/02/24 WINNER Qiao Wanmian

Qin - posted 16/03/24 WINNER Qin Banruo

Qing - posted 18/04/24 WINNER Qing Ge

Qiu - posted 25/03/24 WINNER Qiu Congxue

Qu - posted 30/03/24 WINNER Qu Lingfeng

Ran - posted 22/04/24 WINNERS Ran Lin and Ran Yun

Ren - posted 29/03/24 WINNER Ren Ruyi

Rong - posted 28/03/24 WINNER Rong Changqing

Ruan - posted 21/03/24 WINNER Ruan Nanzhu

Sang - posted 22/04/24 WINNER Sang Zan

Sha - posted 7/04/24 WINNER Sha Hualing

Shan - posted 19/04/24 WINNER Shan Gudao

Shang - posted 3/03/24 WINNER Shang Qinghua

Shangguan - posted 4/04/24 WINNER Shangguan Qin

Shao - posted 4/05/24 WINNER Shao Lin

Shen - posted 23/02/24 WINNER Shen Wei

Sheng - posted 4/03/24 WINNER Sheng Minglan

Sima - posted 2/04/24 WINNER Sima Yi

Shi - posted 8/03/24 WINNER Shi Qingxuan

Shu - posted 5/04/24 WINNER Shu Yanyan

Si - posted 15/04/24 WINNER Si Yilin

Song - posted 19/02/24 WINNER Song Lan

Su - posted 13/02/24 WINNER Su Zhe

Sun - posted 15/02/24 WINNER Sun Wukong

Sui - posted 31/03/24 WINNER Sui Zhou

Tan - posted 1/04/24 WINNER 'Other'

Tang - posted 12/02/24 WINNER Tang Fan

Tao - posted 15/04/24 WINNER Tao Ran

Tian - posted 20/04/24 WINNER Tian Qi

Tie - posted 5/05/24 WINNERS Tie Yinyi and Tie Miansheng

Tong - posted 12/04/24 WINNER Tong Lu

Tuoba - posted 12/04/24 WINNER Tuoba Yan

Wan - posted 24/03/24 WINNER Consort Wan

Wang - posted 26/02/24 WINNER Wang Pangzi

Wei - posted 8/02/24 WINNER Wei Wuxian

Wen - posted 2/03/24 WINNER Wen Kexing

Wu - posted 15/02/24 WINNER Wu Xie

Xi - posted 6/04/24 WINNER Xi Ping

Xia - posted 11/03/24 WINNER Xia Dong

Xian - posted 2/05/24 WINNERS Xian Ge and Xian Qing

Xiang - posted 19/03/24 WINNER Xiang Liu and Xiang Nanfang

Xiao - posted 20/02/24 WINNER Xiao Jingyan

Xie - posted 21/02/24 WINNER Xie Lian

Xin - posted 21/04/24 WINNER Xin Ziyuan

Xing - posted 28/03/24 WINNER Xing Zhi

Xiong - posted 7/05/24 WINNERS Xiong yipei and Xiong Chumo

Xu - posted 25/02/24 WINNER Xu Da

Xun - posted 3/04/24 WINNER Xun Feizhan

Xuan - posted 2/04/24 WINNER Xuan Shen'an | The Empress

Xue -posted 11/02/24 WINNER Xue Yang

Yan - posted 19/02/24 WINNER Yan Wushi

Yang - posted 3/03/24 WINNER Yang Wuxie

Yao - posted 24/04/24 WINNER Yao Zhen

Ye - posted 10/02/24 WINNER Ye Baiyi

Yi - posted 9/03/24 WINNER Yi Bichen

Yin - posted 8/04/24 WINNER Yin Yu

Ying - posted 17/02/24 WINNER Ying Hecong

You - posted 1/04/24 WINNER You Huo

Yu - posted 11/02/23 WINNER Yu Ziyuan

Yun - posted 1/03/24 WINNER Yun Biqiu

Yuan - posted 27/02/24 WINNER Yuan Boya

Yue - posted 4/03/24 WINNER Yue Qingyuan

Yuwen - posted 6/04/24 WINNER Yuwen Xuan

Zang - posted 24/02/24 WINNER Zang Ming

Zeng - posted 9/04/24 WINNER Zeng Xiangdong

Zhan - posted 10/03/24 WINNER Zhan Yunfei

Zhang - posted 17/02/24 WINNER Zhang Qiling

Zhao - posted 1/03/24 WINNER Zhao Yunlan

Zhen - posted 24/03/24 WINNER Zhen Ping

Zhi - posted 14/03/24 WINNER Zhi Xiu

Zhong - posted 27/03/24 WINNER Zhong Li

Zhou - posted 2/02/24 WINNER Zhou Zishu

Zhu - posted 9/03/24 Winner Zhu Hong

Zhuge - posted 18/03/24 WINNER Zhuge Liang

Zi - posted 16/04/24 WINNER 'Other'

Zuo - posted 5/05/24 WINNER Zuo Ran

[poorlittleyaoyao]

Actually I find very fitting how women are treated in mdzs. Mdzs's world is homophobic, classicist and misogynistic. Imo Mdzs's world represents the worst of the real world, so I find very suitable that in a patriarch/misogyny society where reputation is what matter the most, women payed the consequences of men's choices. The fact that they have no agency makes their stories even more tragic (like Greek heroines) imo. I've read historical novels from a very youth age, so I am accustomed to this. (disclaimer : that doesn't mean that I am not frustrated with the narrative or our assholes as wwx wn etc... ). What makes me very upset is how fans treat mdzs's women! Wq is not a Mean Lesbian, who is just wwx's best friend. jyl is not just wwx's mom or, even worst, a badass kickass (she is ill! She can't cultivate! Madam yu would love to have a badass daughter, but she can't! She has a chronic illness!!! ). And madam yu reminds me so much of Medea but she doesn't have the same hype. These women are trapped two times : firstly by the narrative and then by fans and I find myself less tolerant towards the latter

When I saw this ask yesterday, my gut response to the comparison between Greek tragedies and MDZS was to be like "no!! it's not the same!!" But I couldn't immediately identify why I felt that way. All the works that have given me lasting brainworms are historical tragedies with mostly-male casts and moral complexity. Everything I vibe with can be traced in some way back to getting fixated on the Trojan War, MDZS/CQL included. So what's different? I have been pondering it ever since then. So thank you, anon, for making me think!

For me, I think what it comes down to is that the issues you mentioned--the classism, the homophobia, and the misogyny--aren't actually explored within the text itself. The in-universe homophobia primarily manifests itself as people saying slurs at Wangxian. There is no external pressure to enter into heterosexual unions and have children to ensure a line of succession (3/4 of the sect leaders are unmarried after the timeskip, after all), nor is there the internal conflict of unpacking internalized homophobia. Classism is examined more with JGY's whole deal, but when the only character pointing out the flaws in the status quo is the Crimes Man, it muddles the message somewhat.

As to the misogyny... with the notable exception of QS, none of the women in MDZS die for reasons that relate to in-universe inequality. YZY, A-Qing, WQ, and JYL all die making the active choice to protect someone or something. Taken individually, all of their deaths make sense. The problems is when you take them as a whole, and you realize that the mortality rate for women in the series is off the chain. Below is a list of all the named characters who show up for more than one scene in MDZS. Bolded characters live, struck-through characters die.

Wei Wuxian Jiang Yanli Jiang Cheng                 Yu Ziyuan Jiang Fengmian           Wen Qing Lan Wangji  Granny Wen Lan Xichen                   Wang Lingjiao Lan Qiren                     Madame Jin Lan Jingyi                     Qin Su Lan Sizhui                   Luo Qingyang Wen Ning                      A-Qing Wen Chao                                            Wen Ruohan                                         Wen Zhuliu Jin Zixuan Jin Ling                                               Jin Guangshan                                                Jin Zixun Jin Guangyao Nie Mingjue Nie Huaisang Xue Yang Xiao Xingchen Song Lan Su Minshan Ouyang Zizhen Sect Leader Ouyang Sect Leader Yao

That's bonkers! It's even worse if you don't count the dead characters who quote-unquote "deserved it" for murdering people, which changes the list to:

Wei Wuxian Jiang Yanli Jiang Cheng                 Yu Ziyuan Jiang Fengmian           Wen Qing Lan Wangji  Granny Wen Lan Xichen                   Madame Jin Lan Qiren                     Qin Su Lan Jingyi                     Luo Qingyang Lan Sizhui                   A-Qing Wen Ning                       Jin Zixuan Jin Ling                                               Nie Mingjue Nie Huaisang Xiao Xingchen Song Lan Ouyang Zizhen Sect Leader Ouyang Sect Leader Yao

Again, the women's deaths each make sense individually, but as a trend, it's fucking wild, and that's what bothers me. There's no actual honest-to-god plot reason why the ratio has to be this way. Why can't Lan Qiren be a strict auntie? Why can't the juniors be a mixed-gender group? Additionally, there's the matter of how the deaths are treated. NMJ's death is the entire reason for the book; JZX's memory is invoked as much as JYL's. It's not that bad things happen to the women, it's that they're unnecessarily killed off at a disproportionate amount.

ALL THAT SAID. ALL THAT SAID!! You're absolutely right about fan treatment. One would think that these interesting women who don't get to take center stage in canon (and thus have a lot left to explore!) would be a GOLDMINE, but instead they're sanded down like you said. It must be ROUGH trying to find fic about JYL in particular, because so much of what she's tagged in is just her being WWX's Gentle Soup Sister in the background. Wangxian is far and away the biggest pairing WQ's tag--not just for MDZS, but for The Untamed, where she's a much bigger character! I sense that you're more charitable towards the canons than I am, anon, but at least the canons are honest about what they're about and aren't patting themselves on the back for their super progressive inclusion of a Mean Lesbian Friend or whatever.

[variouspolltournaments]

SUBMISSIONS CLOSED

The next poll tournament I will be running is the Characters With Fans Tournament.

...Um, fans as in hand fans, I should probably clarify.

I have submitted two characters myself (they'll be at the top of the submissions list)

Submit a character with a fan, along with where they come from and (if you want) propaganda. You can do this through ask or submit a post.

Currently submissions will be closing once the already running poll tournament ends (the 7th of May I think it would be). This could be changed and there will be an update if it does, but for now that's how it is.

@tournament-announcer

Submissions in bold have propaganda, submissions not in bold do not have propaganda. Whether they do or do not have some already, you are still free to submit some.

SUBMISSIONS:

Princess Hildegard: Sofia the First

Nie Huaisang: Mo Dao Zu Shi

Shen Yuan/Shen Qingqiu: Scum Villain's Self Saving System

Shi Qingxuan: Tian Guan Ci Fu

Xue Zhengyong: The Husky and his White Cat Shizun

Wen Kexing: Word of Honour

Haruaki Kurama: Ayaka: A Story of Bonds and Wounds

Kalluto Zoldyck: Hunter X Hunter

Kyoshi: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Douma: Kimetsu no Yaiba

Shiver Hohojiro: Splatoon

Sharon Rainsworth: Pandora Hearts

Sheryl Rainsworth: Pandora Hearts

Rufus Barma: Pandora Hearts

Suki: Avatar: The Last Airbender

Kagura: Inuyasha

Eva Ushiromiya: Umineko no Naku Koro ni

Mulan: Mulan

Temari Nara: Naruto

Tenten: Naruto

Yukimi noh Daiomoru: Protector of the Small Quartet

Tingyun: Honkai Star Rail

Mayura: Miraculous Ladybug

Yukimaro: 9 R.I.P.

Mei Mei: Kung Fu Panda

Yumi Ishiyama: Code Lyoko

Kamisato Ayaka: Genshin Impact

Lady Windermere: Lady Windermere’s Fan

Yuzu Hiiragi: Yugioh

Shen Lanzhou: Qiang Jin Jiu

Lady Bow: Paper Mario

Swire the Elegant Wit: Arknights

Qing Ming: Yin Yang Master: Dream of Eternity

Maria Posada: The Book of Life

Princess Amber: Sofia the First

Princess Clio: Sofia the First

Ageha: Reine Des Fleurs

Madame Enge: Reine Des Fleurs

Yi Bang-won: My Country: The New Age

Yukiko Amagi: Persona

Sasara Nurude: Hypnosis Mic

Argos: Miraculous Ladybug

Robot With Fans For Hands: Futurama

April O’Neil: 2012 Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles

Aramina: Barbie and the Three Musketeers

Princess Kitana: Mortal Kombat

Sensu-Style Oricorio: Pokemon

Chelle: Dragalia Lost

Bai Qian: Ten Miles of Peach Blossoms

Reina Itsutsuboshi: Doki Doki Pretty Cure

Boss: Underworld Office

Milady: Persona

[michiiyann]

Modaozushi Character Nicknames

Just some funny ideas I came up with-

Literally just a shitpost-

Wei Wuxian -Wei Yeet

Lan Wanji - Lan Wait-ji

Nie Huaisang - No Huaisang

Lan Xichen - Lan Wingman

Jiang Chang - Jiang Chang-e your freaking hairstyle!!

Wen Qing - Wen Queen

Wen Ning - Baby just baby

Jiang Yanli - Pain Yanli

Jin Ling - Jin iM gOnNA fiGht a STaTue WiTh aRroWs Ling

Lan Sizhui - WangXian Love Child

Lan Jingyi - Fringe King

Xue Yang- Xue Wrong

Xiao Xingchen - I can’t see (I will be punished for that one)

Madam Yu - maDAM Yu

Wen Chao - When the zombies Chao on you

[thatswhatsushesaid]

did nie mingjue give jin guangyao a 'new life' after his mother's death?

okay i'm not trying to call out one post specifically or anything but this is definitely not the first post on this site to call jin guangyao the cruelest character in MDZS, and that is such a reach, especially when both xue yang and jin guangshan are, you know, right there. but i also want to dig into one of the points raised about jin guangyao and nie mingjue's relationship, and what they owe to each other, because i could not disagree with the principle assertion more.

so, did jin guangyao "[kill] the man who gave him a new life after his mother died"?

I assume we are discussing nie mingjue here and not jin guangshan lmfao.

okay, let's for the sake of argument assume your assertion that jin guangyao owes nie mingjue a life debt is correct. to be clear: I don't think it is. i do not think that meng yao owes nie mingjue a life debt when he comes into his service, nor do I think that he accrues one after receiving his courtesy name and title of lianfang-zun. but let's just pretend anyway.

JGY LIFE DEBTS OWED TO NMJ (STARTING TALLY): 1 - because nie mingjue gave him a job NMJ LIFE DEBTS OWED TO JGY (STARTING TALLY): 0 - how nice for him

I also want to emphasize that nie mingjue's attempt to help creates additional hardship for meng yao that he likely wouldn't have experienced if nie mingjue had stopped to ask him what he wanted before deciding he knew best. recall that he did not offer meng yao a promotion after overhearing his cultivators mocking his low birth: he just gave it to him, without considering how this promotion might (and in fact did) cause the bullying and harassment meng yao received from the nie sect cultivators to escalate. please also remember that meng yao does not ask mingjue for a letter of recommendation to take to jin guangshan to seek his recognition--he does not even want to leave! in fact he is explicitly telling lan xichen in that moment before nie mingjue interrupts their conversation that he feels obligated to remain with nie mingjue! it is nie mingjue who decides to send him off to jin guangshan with a letter of recommendation, and while meng yao expresses his immense gratitude for this gesture in the moment, it is so important to emphasize that he not only did not ask for this, but he was not asked if he wanted it, either. even then, the letter of recommendation that nie mingjue sends along with meng yao when he opts to release him from his service does not open any doors for meng yao at all. in fact, jin guangshan seems to use this as the perfect opportunity to eliminate another inconvenient bastard son during war time, and assigns meng yao--a weak and self-taught cultivator--to the front lines under a captain who not only beats and abuses him, but also forces him to come up with military strategies for the jin sect's successes, which he then takes the credit for when reporting to jin guangshan. if meng yao had not killed this captain, it's likely he would have died on the langye front during the sunshot campaign. meng yao gives himself a new life as jin guangyao and lianfang-zun because he is the one who kills wen ruohan during the battle for nightless city, and he does this entirely on his own (making use of deceit and trickery that nie mingjue finds dishonourable, in fact).

but anyway. after presumably giving meng yao this 'new life' in the form of the impromptu field promotion that meng yao did not ask for, meng yao repays his, um, debt (is that what we owe our employers when we are already providing them our labour?) to nie mingjue in full (??? only in full? he isn't, you know, maybe owed some change?) when he saves nie mingjue's life from wen ruohan at the battle of nightless city. and to save myself a lot of stress and frustration, let's all just collectively agree that, while the life-debt ratio of "giving someone a job" vs "risking your life to save else's" is absolutely not 1:1 in the real world, we're just. assuming it is, for the sake of this argument. the salient point is jin guangyao's ledger is now clear. he's back in the black, as it were.

JGY LIFE DEBTS OWED TO NMJ (UPDATED TALLY): 0 - he saved the life of the guy who gave him a job NMJ LIFE DEBTS OWED TO JGY (UPDATED TALLY): 0 - and the guy who gave jgy the job does not owe him anything in return for having his life saved, since jobs and lives are interchangeable and of equal value apparently

that's it, y'all, they're square.

except nie mingjue then explicitly attempts to murder meng yao/jin guangyao three times before jin guangyao even begins to play the song of spirit turmoil for him. which means we need a new scoreboard for keeping track of the mutual-murder attempts that define the rest of their relationship, beginning immediately post-sunshot campaign. here's where the mutual-murder attempt tally stands:

JGY'S ATTEMPTS TO MURDER NMJ (STARTING TALLY): 0 - he did literally the opposite of attempting to murder nie mingjue NMJ'S ATTEMPTS TO MURDER JGY (STARTING TALLY): 1 - nie mingjue tries to kill meng yao (who is not fighting back!!) with baxia, prior to being stopped by lan xichen (chapter 49)

that's explicit attempt #1! but if we believe that part of lan xichen's intent with all three of them swearing brotherhood to each other was to, in essence, provide jin guangyao and nie mingjue a clean slate upon which to rebuild trust in their relationship, then let's go ahead and reset that scoreboard. even though that is not how reconciliation between human beings actually works, particularly not when mutually-inflicted trauma is at work, but. whatever.

JGY'S ATTEMPTS TO MURDER NMJ (UPDATED TALLY): 0 - by the power vested in zewu-jun as the first jade of lan, apparently NMJ'S ATTEMPTS TO MURDER JGY (UPDATED TALLY): 0 - zewu-jun now pronounces u both even stevens, you may put baxia down. ..put it down, mingjue.

nie mingjue does not put baxia down, figuratively or literally. explicit attempt to murder jin guangyao #2 happens after they have sworn their binding oath of brotherhood to each other, and is the infamous "what else should I expect from the son of a prostitute" confrontation at the top of the jinlintai tower steps. nie mingjue literally kicks jin guangyao down 50 solid stone steps, which could easily have broken his neck or spine (or both). please note that this was an unprovoked act of violence against a much, much weaker cultivator whose only offence[1] against nie mingjue--arguably the strongest cultivator and martial artist of his generation--at this point was… saying words nie mingjue didn't like, and not killing xue yang when nie mingjue told him to. time to update the scoreboard again!

JGY'S ATTEMPTS TO MURDER NMJ (UPDATED TALLY): 0 - no, jin guangyao has not begun playing the song of spirit turmoil for nie mingjue yet! (chapter 104) [2] NMJ'S ATTEMPTS TO MURDER JGY (UPDATED TALLY): 1 - kicks nmj down the jinlintai steps, which, yes, is attempted murder (chapter 49)

which brings us to explicit murder attempt #3, which happens immediately after nie mingjue kicking him down the stairs. while jin guangyao is still recovering and picking himself up off the ground (in other words, not retaliating in any way or provoking further violence) nie mingjue unsheathes baxia to finish the job, and would absolutely have done so if lan xichen had not, yet again, intervened to protect jin guangyao. you know what time it is now.

JGY'S ATTEMPTS TO MURDER NMJ (UPDATED TALLY): 0 - nope, still has not begun playing the song of spirit turmoil between getting punted down the stairs and standing back up again NMJ'S ATTEMPTS TO MURDER JGY (UPDATED TALLY): 2 - yes, this is a second attempt at actual murder, I am not going to argue about this with anyone

all of this happens /gestures @ literally all of that, while jin guangyao is continuously traveling back and forth between jinlintai and qinghe to play the unaltered version of cleansing to help stabilize nie mingjue's qi. we know this because lan xichen explicitly tells us this in chapter 49, and nie mingjue agrees with him. we also know that this unaltered version of cleansing is having a positive impact on nie mingjue's spirit and his relationship with jin guangyao, because wei wuxian remarks on this while experiencing nie mingjue's memories in empathy. to be very clear: before jin guangyao has played the song of spirit turmoil for nie mingjue even one time, nie mingjue has already tried to kill jin guangyao three times. he is actively attempting to murder jin guangyao while jin guangyao is actively working together with lan xichen to repair their relationship and forestall nie mingjue's inevitable death by qi deviation. and we can go around in circles all day about whether jin guangyao ultimately kills nie mingjue solely because he is defending himself against a man who will not stop trying to kill him, or whether he's doing this because daddy said jump, or if it is a bit of both--I fall into the "it is always a bit of both" camp with jin guangyao--but that is actually beside the point.

the point: if we are keeping score about who has attempted to murder whom (and how frequently) by the time nmj ultimately kicks it, the final tally is nie mingjue 3 - jin guangyao 1. if we include his attempt to kill jin guangyao at the point of his qi deviation, the final tally becomes nie mingjue 4 - jin guangyao 1. so, even if i didn't disagree with the principle assertion made here, i would argue that jin guangyao not only squared that debt to nie mingjue years ago by saving him from wen ruohan, nie mingjue in fact now owes a life debt to jin guangyao for all the attempts to kill the guy who literally saved his life.

tl;dr these are the actions of a man who gave his subordinate a lot of trauma and anxiety, but not a new life.

[1] I am shelving any discussion of what meng yao does or doesn't owe nie mingjue within the context of his time spent undercover in wen ruohan's court because I feel there is nuance enough in that situation to justify its own post. meng yao and nie mingjue both deeply, irreparably traumatized each other in that situation and should never have been let within 6 li of each other ever again after the end of the war, much less pressured to swear brotherhood to each other. (grips lan xichen's shoulders, stares deeply into his beautiful eyes: wtf were you thinking, er-ge)

[2] even if I were to agree that he obtained the song of spirit turmoil in advance of the stairs incident and had already begun playing the song for nie mingjue (which I do not), it is clear that mingjue is improving, pre-stairs. this implies that jin guangyao, while he may have prepared a contingency plan, has not been putting any spiritual power into the portion of cleansing that contains the altered bars of the music. we know that he is capable of altering which parts of the song receive spiritual power because both wei wuxian and lan xichen confirm that this is possible in their (emotionally fraught, for poor xichen) conversation inside the cloud recesses library pavilion after the torn page is discovered. this, combined with the two to three month time frame that the altered song requires to trigger mingjue's qi deviation, plus the two month time frame that jin guangyao presents disingenuously to nie mingjue regarding xue yang, are clear textual evidence in support of my position. the music changes after the stairs.

[allthelittlecreepycrawlies]

OK big thanks to @micchikureshima for letting me rant this concept out in discord because otherwise I probably never would have gotten it typed.

This is basically throwing together multiple ideas i've already posted (the meng yao has serious misconceptions idea and the tumblr post about the sect rejecting huaisang as heir and him leaving to keep from forcing mingjue between a rock and a hard place) into one vaguely coherent storyline.

Also it's gonna be long, so some of it will go under a cut.

Starting with that fic where Meng Yao wakes up to find Nie Huaisang burying a bird he couldn't save, slide to the left into a timeline where Meng Yao didn't go outside and thus never got his POV recontextualized. Having only his preconceived notions and gossip to go on, he starts quietly developing a resentment against Huaisang.

It kind of comes to a head when he's convinced to accept some local wine at a dinner and is so not ready for the paint thinner they drink in Qinghe. In vino veritas or a reversal of the 'confessing to a crush while drunk' trope where he says some very uncharitable things about Huaisang while plastered.

When he wakes up the next morning with a massive hangover and remembers what happened, he's mortified and convinced he's in so much trouble.

But... he's not?

In fact, his insults towards the sect heir seems to have actually gained him some popularity, even among disciples and soldiers who didn't like him before. And while Nie Mingjue isn't among the ones who outright thought it was funny, even he says his silly useless brother brought it on himself, and maybe he'll learn from it.

And Huaisang definitely learned from it, even if the only lesson he took was to avoid Meng Yao completely to keep from being further humiliated. The only time they're in the same room together after that is if Huaisang can't get out of it.

Like when Nie Mingjue sends Meng Yao along with the prospective students to make sure there are no Incidents, not caring how uncomfortable his brother is about it. Grow up, Huaisang, you're going to be dealing with people who don't like you your entire life, it's just a thing people expected to work in politics have to live with.

On the trip, Meng Yao notices that while he doesn't keep any, Huaisang seems to be able to charm wild birds with ease. It briefly makes him wonder about the aviary… but no, not important.

It's not enough for him to start questioning his earlier opinions.

Veering fully into CQL-territory for a moment, Huaisang gets home on time this go around instead of making the long detour because he doesn't want to be stuck with Meng Yao any longer than necessary, but the Yunmeng group still arrives with Xue Yang in tow, the Wens still show up, Meng Yao still gets injured, Xue Yang still gets freed, and the captain still gets killed.

When Meng Yao finds himself banished, he is caught off guard when Nie Huaisang is angry about it (this time entirely because he thinks it's bad form to exile someone who's still badly wounded, especially when they got that wound in the line of duty), but he correctly believes nothing will come of it when Huaisang says he'll talk to his brother, so he leaves while Huaisang is gone. Back to MDZS canon but with a bonus character, It's not until the Phoenix Mountain Hunt, when Jin Guangyao is having to put up with his family's general everything that the situation changes.

Shortly after his father has read him the riot act over the Jiang sect's behavior during the hunt, he comes across Nie Huaisang and Nie Zonghui quietly talking on one of the guest balconies.

"It's probably just different when it's family. Or else I'm just that much of a monster, if I'm less forgivable than someone like Jin Guangshan."

…Oh.

Jin Guangyao doesn't stick around to hear what Nie Zonghui says in response, but the short exchange haunts him as he goes back to his duties.

What has Huaisang done that's in any way comparable to his relatives' behavior?

Now that he's trying to actually think of anything, he can't find an answer.

In fact, he can't stop wondering if he hadn't been coloring Huaisang's behavior with Jin gold the entire time, his first encounter with his father's sect having tainted his opinion. He'll apologize, he decides.

But he doesn't get the chance before the conference is over, kept so busy by everyone's demands that he can barely catch his breath. and even after the other sects are gone, his father constantly has new tasks and orders and creepy little plots for him to carry out.

Before he realizes it, it's been almost a month.

And then his spies in Qinghe tell him about the inheritance chaos going on in the Unclean Realms.

And then Nie Huaisang is gone. Walked out into the night and vanished with only a letter to his brother left behind.

Nie Mingjue of course doesn't bring it up with him, why would he? Even if they've sworn brotherhood, they're still mostly on the outs. but he hears from er-ge that Nie Mingjue won't talk about it with anyone, not even him. Just keeping it all bottled up and boiling.

He should be relieved, even with this new source of tension. Now it doesn't matter if he apologizes or not.

That doesn't make the discomfort go away, though, because he's plagued by the same doubts as Nie Mingjue, wondering how much he contributed to public opinion eventually forcing Huaisang out.

Months later, just after Jin Ling is born, Jin Guangshan is already expecting to throw a massively extravagant hundred days celebration and has Jin Guangyao making all the arrangements and gathering all the necessary supplies.

His current assignment is to visit some merchants the Jin sect occasionally does business with in a little port town in order to arrange some expensive future kitchen deliveries.

There's a painter doing portraits for a tourist couple on one of the piers.

Nie Huaisang is almost unrecognizable. He's thinner, his clothes are plain and unadorned, his hair pulled up into a bun with no braids. If it weren't for the black and gold bird singing on his shoulder as he works, Jin Guangyao would have overlooked him entirely, and even then, it's only the green eyes that make him realize just who he's looking at.

He watches as Huaisang chats amiably with the couple, all bubbling cheer like he used to be whenever trying to win friends, and Jin Guangyao wonders if leaving the sect has really had any effect on him at all. And then as soon as they walk away, happy with their souvenir, the mask vanishes and he looks so tired and withdrawn, even as the bird comforts him by pulling at his hair.

Ah. Jin Guangyao knows all too well what it's like wearing that mask.

It looks like the apology will still be necessary.

Jin Guangyao manages to coax huaisang into at least meeting for dinner if only for a free meal, and it becomes clear as they exchange (mostly) meaningless small talk that while Huaisang has a lot of 'neighbors' because he does a lot of small clerical or scribing jobs here and there, he has completely given up on any actual social relationships and mostly keeps to himself.

And he doesn't really believe the apology, mostly because it seems everyone else agrees with Jin Guangyao's original opinions of him, so why would he walk it back? But he's grateful for the food anyway, so Jin Guangyao decides that has to be enough for now and he'll work on proving his change of heart in other small ways when he's not as constrained by having to conduct sect business matters on this trip.

With the hatchet sort of buried, Jin Guangyao will report on what he's seen to Nie Mingjue.

It turns out Mingjue hasn't even opened any of his brother's letters, though he's been keeping them all. He's convinced himself they'll just make him madder and he's barely holding it together as it is. But whatever Jin Guangyao tells him makes him finally read them, and when the last one mentions giving up on writing, he realizes it's been almost a month and a half since it was sent, when before, the letters had been arriving practically weekly.

Fuck. Huaisang really did give up. All he's been doing by keeping this bottled up is pushing his brother even further away.

He decides that a response letter at this point won't do, and besides, he wants to see for himself this new (difficult, if Jin Guangyao didn't lie) life Huaisang's been living.

The resulting…. not a confrontation, but not exactly a reunion in the seaside town is super awkward and uncomfortable for both Nie brothers, but at least it ends with them understanding each other a little bit better? At least they'll start writing each other properly, as will Jin Guangyao and Huaisang.

(And that's pretty much as far as I got on this idea, so it'll stay pretty open ended.)

[movielosophy]

Destined | Send you off

[joys-of-everyday]

MXTX and Class

I thought about how to do this for a while and got stuck. So instead of writing anything, I'm just going to list potentially interesting topics and think about it later.

Shen Jiu and Ling Wen: the distant dreams of meritocracy. The pitfalls of supposed meritocracy. The importance of education and why those who rise to the top tend to shed their origins.

Luo Binghe: poverty and trauma. The lasting impacts of Luo Binghe's childhood on his mental health and the Problems that caused. Bonus: What that says about Shang Qinghua.

On 'Prominent Households' in Chinese history. What were they exactly? Reflecting on the Lius, Qius, Mings, Wens, Jins, Jiangs, Lans, Nies, etc. of MXTX's worlds.

Jin Guangyao: of courtesans, murder, and the nuances of class. Comparisons with Wu Zetian, courtesans in the Tang dynasty, and the nuances around people who exist outside the usual class buckets.

Wei Wuxian, and Mu Qing: the different flavours of gentry adjacent. So what was WWX's position actually ? Retainers 家臣, servants 家仆, and their position in society. Bonus: Feng Xin, Wen Zhuliu and how they fit into this.

Qiu Jianluo, the Little Palace Mistress, and Wen Chao: subtle notes of the spoilt rich brat. What makes the 'insufferable rich' so insufferable. (And what changed with Qi Rong.)

The Old Palace Master, Wen Ruohan, and Jin Guangshan: big daddy. Of power, exploitation, and manipulation. Comparisons to the above point.

Gongyi Xiao, Lan Wangji, and Lan Sizhui: look the rich can be good too. On benevolence, righteousness, propriety, wisdom, and sincerity. Confucianism, Taoism, Buddhism, and the ideal of a 'gentleman'.

Yu Ziyuan, Wang Lingjiao, and Xuan Ji: intersections of class and gender. Positions and powers of women in Chinese history.

Xue Yang: morality, class, and salvation in unlikely places. ‘The good person can reach the Pure Land, so of course the evil person can as well’ said some Buddhist dude. What even is Xue Yang's character arc actually.

Xie Lian: morality, class, and virtues of saving one person. How worldviews change with hardship. On 'big virtues 大德', 'small virtues 少德' and the self-importance of the elite.

Jun Wu and Xie Lian: so are the common people unworthy? The hundred people in the temple, the importance of the random people on the street, and why class buckets can be unhelpful.

Mu Qing, Hua Cheng, and the tale of the Street Performer. Why the poor fight each other and the middle class turn on the poor. (maybe someone upstairs is fanning the flames)

Lang Ying: vive la revolution Comparisons with the Hongwu Emperor. Social unrest, revolutions, and why things go back to how they were before (but not completely). (edit: oops. fixed a mistake)

Ghost city vs Heavenly Court: on virtue signaling The disorder of the Ghost city vs the corruption of the Heavenly Court. Ghost city as a 'safe space' for those running from authority and Hua Cheng's thing about going after 'tyrants'.

[unfortunatelycake]

OK here's part 2, following on from part 1 & the Ladies' Version...

Winners of part 1 & 2 will be pitted against each other in one final showdown of hypothetical necromancy!

Reblog for bigger sample size, to click more buttons, and show love for precious cinnamon rolls, poor little meow meows, and stinky garbage mans.

[sophia-sol]

MDZS/CQL fic recs for the month!

within these walls, by Shadaras

- cql/mdzs. this is a remix of another fic but you don't need to read the original to follow this one, as it follows a character who gets less focus in the original

- about wen qing and her interactions over the years with jin guangyao, in an au where she's imprisoned by him and helping him, after surviving leaving the burial mounds

- a great look at wen qing and her choices, and what she is and isn't able to do to affect things, and what she's willing to help with

- 2k words in length

Bird on the Wire, by villainousfriend (katzenfabrik)

- mdzs space au about nie huaisang and his years-long project in avenging his da-ge

- a repeated theme throughout the fic is nhs visiting and talking to back-ups that had been taken of nmj's personality before death, and the way that this makes literal how HAUNTED nhs is by his brother's absence is just sooooooo good

- the worldbuilding is great, the things that are changed from canon due to this different context are great, the anguish and monofocus of nhs are great

- I AM ALL EMOTIONS ;_;

- 8k words in length

mutual aid, by verity

- mdzs wangxian modern-with-cultivation au where lwj is a trans man and wwx is a trans woman

- and ahhhh it just makes me so emotional about how GREAT wangxian are!!!

- wonderfully integrated characters/plot into a world they inhabit where friends and work and weird tastes in books are part of their lives, and also, lwj and wwx find each other and are immediately obsessed with each other, finding something in each other that allow them to best be themselves

- so many very funny details also, at the same time that it's many feelings

- 10k words in length

how Yao Yongzheng traveled back in time to save everyone, by ShippersList

- mdzs/cql time travel au fic where Sect Leader Yao travels back in time at the point of his death, and intends to Make Changes For The Better

- a funny and fun look at how things happen, with and without his intervention!

- 6k words in length

lotus blossoms out of season, by Kieron_ODuibhir

- mdzs/cql canon divergence au, where instead of mxy sacrificing himself to resurrect wwx, jc sacrifices himself to resurrect jyl

- jyl and wn and mxy eat soup together about it

- and jyl grapples with how she feels about everything that happened. and what she's going to do next

- and like. DANG I love it!!!

- 5k words in length

the mountain, by verity

- mdzs songxuexiao t4t4t modern au where they're grad students in china

- I had the pleasure of getting to see this fic as it came together, and the thought and care verity puts into their writing is always so evident in their beautifully written and beautifully constructed stories!

- from song lan's pov as he watches creepy stalker xue yang entwine herself into his bff (and object of pining) xiao xingchen's life

- sl DOESN'T trust xy, he DOES find it super hot to put her in her place and have sex with her, he DOES struggle to be fully vulnerable with xxc despite everything she is to him

- the vibes are so good, I love how real and present each character and their complex emotions about each other are, and I love the way the theme of the weather runs through the whole fic holding things together

- highly recommend!

- 12k words in length

[wutheringskies]

I find this interesting in mdzs posts on Tumblr. Once the profile pic or background pic on their blog is either Xue Yang, JGY, or CQL pictures, then the post they wrote must be "The MC of mdzs is not morally that good, the reason is bla bla blah. To make flaws in the MC they went to the extent of victimizing the Perpetrators mainly Wen Chao and QishanWen Cultivators who'd chosen to join the war, a war to oppress other sects and slaughter them if they were to defy.

Don't you think that pattern resembles MDZS world? If you find someone spreading rumors and distorting facts about WWX it must be from the Jin. After the war ended, The Mobs actually accused WWX of killing too much (Wen Cultivators) during the war, in the occasion of talking about WWX freeing the real innocent Wen Remnants from LanlingJin's true war crime. The Irony and Ridiculousness are so thick. But that actually came into being in real life on their fans. How amusing was that?? Like Idols like fans. There really are people like that in real life...even MianMian can't put up with such mobs.

Excellent point, anon.

I always feel that MXTX's stories - specifically, MDZS and TGCF do a great job at presenting in the bounds of fiction, a real society. In our sort of society, those who are kind, are also often foolish. Those who are brave, are treated as rebels. In our world too; minorities are treated with suspicion and hostility. Systems aren't set down in rules; the rules can be changed by those who hold power; those who constitute the majority. Most of the people in this world listen along to the flute of him who is most powerful. Most people are mob-like. They don't help, but they criticize those who do for not doing enough. They don't like putting themselves into difficult positions. Even if they feel sympathy, they never act on it. They treat outliers as scandalous; they just wish to be accepted in any community, and put down all voices of reason, and pleas, to act like a banded group; like a bunch of 'teen mean girls.'

That is the sort of world MDZS is based in. In such a world, there are two idealistic people with solid morals - Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian, and this is the story of coming to peace with such a world and finding each other. I strongly feel that if one tries to justify an antagonist's actions; they rob themselves of the experience of reading a book which subtly, yet strongly pokes at how corrupt power structures, social hierarchies are; and how terrible it is to not examine the information you are presented with.

We are well aware that Jin Guangyao is a villain. Yet, saying that he is just evil at the root, two-faced and a vengeful, lying snake isn't enough. We must consider into account the nature of society - the untouchability that he faced; the humiliation, the rejection, the plea of a boy to buy out his mother's freedom. But note, that these difficulties aren't meant to free him of his guilt, but rather to add nuance to his character. Jin Guangyao is a victim of society, and on gaining power, he is one of those who stand atop the social ladder and cause harm to those below; and when he falls to the bottom, it is the same people who once held him as powerful, kind and benevolent that spread truths, rumours and secrets about him. Thus, the people probably had hints of what he does; yet they considered him of good standing until it was no longer beneficial; until they could turn the tables around and throw him down. Then they turn into his enemies.

This is not to absolve Jin Guangyao of his guilt, but to make us uncomfortable with how society is. I recall this line by Wei Wuxian - "How cheap is your hatred, and how cheap was your admiration."

Similarly, Jiang Cheng is an antagonist. He's a safe sect leader; never taking fights he can't win. Thus, he turns a blind eye to all injustice that would harm his position by putting him at odds with other powers and even encourages it. Social hierarchy allows him to whip up innocent people and not pay back his debts. As he's in a more privileged position than many others, being the literal sect heir of a major clan, he can retain the right to be upset, angry and hurt over whatever he chooses, whether or not his feelings were drawn on valid instances.

For some reason, this fandom falls into the same cycle of reading the book as if they're a civilian in the MDZS world, rather than a reader, containing an omnipresent point-of-view and analytical skills to understand whether the information presented is reliable or not. Perhaps, it is due to their in-built classism, where they are born and raised in places where they are allowed to exaggerate their pains beyond necessity. Perhaps, it is because they are readers who grew up on a bunch of material that is targeted at being 'relatable.' Since MDZS is similar to our world, there are plenty of people who hold sympathy but never act on it, care but not enough, cannot show it, or people who grow resentful. On the other hand, moral ideals like Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian are rare. Thus, they cannot relate to these two. What they can't relate to, or cannot understand - they make up narratives to bring them down to 'their' level by framing their righteous actions as wrong, morally incorrect or selfish to make the characters 'more complex' and thus, relatable, and thus, digestible.

Another reason for condemning the main leads comes from the more genuine lack of understanding of the setting and the themes. I've been raised with Indian literature and I found Chinese literature sharing similarities. The protagonist isn't someone you should 'relate' to but someone whom you can idolize, and hold in high regard; someone from whom you can learn to become better. Society isn't generally kind, and love isn't what the characters are after; whether it be platonic, familial, romantic or parental.

Thus, Lan Wangji and Wei Wuxian are fine with just being together, despite their feelings being reciprocated or not. Of course, when you're a child, you are prone to jealousy and anger. But when you mature, it isn't like that - they aren't possessive of each other. Their love lies first and foremost in sharing the same ideals, the same path, the same search for truth and knowing each other inside out even when the world frames you as this or that. That is the greatest act of love for them. Just like that, Wei Wuxian didn't give his core up due to brotherly love, but a sense of responsibility. Love isn't something that exists; but something that is borne, something that grows between two characters.

Yet people don't even understand things like this; they make Lan Wangji petty and Wei Wuxian some sort of manwhore flirt. They don't understand that in xianxia and wuxia, the dead are an entity, just like the living. The body, the soul, the resentment - all are different parts of the same being. Not all souls can be liberated, thus the end result is having to kill those souls, but Wei Wuxian's cultivation uses their resentful energy to do his bidding, and liberate them. Instead of mindlessly killing, he kills with aim. Even highly resentful fierce corpses can be neutralized. Yet, people think it's his cultivation that is his dissent. They say he killed Wen Chao wrongly. I only feel that they haven't read much Asian literature. If you let vermins go then they will come and bite you in the foot.

Honestly, there is so much wrong with fanon interpretations. It is literally a different book that they are reading. If these were only fun, fanon comics, it would be fine, but these are their actual interpretations upon reading the novel. How far are interpretations valid until you literally ruin the book? It's like being in a fandom where the author wrote a book about cats being lovely, but instead of that, people debate which cat character was more evil.

But, well, I always just think such people are Sect Leader's Yao's followers. Haha. I have no issue with those who like XY, JGY, or JC - but at least like their canon selves, lmao? Or even if you wish to make them more sentimental, that is okay, but don't drag the actual moral ideals to their level, you know?

Well, this got pretty long! But thank you anon for this wonderful ask. I got to rant a lot.