#come to think of it I can't think of wwx responding well to jc's personality since...that time jc went to the BM and tried to kill wn

[llycaons]

it's very sweet when wwx is like 'aw jin ling is just like his uncle' in postcanon fics but I have to laugh because in canon he's literally like 'ugh, jin ling is JUST like his uncle 🙄'

[poorlittleyaoyao]

I appreciated your thoughts about MDZS Vol. 2, since you were able to help me realize just what bothered me about Wangxian/WWX in the novel. It always felt to me that LWJ was WWX's only romantic option in a way bc WWX didn't have to think about his past as much with him? Personally I felt like his relationship with JC was more intense and meaty and interesting. And also why JYL maybe HAD to die. Honestly the ending just feels so strange and unhealthy the more I think abt it.

[pt 2 i guess??] but also can you imagine JYL if she had lived post-timeskip? how she would react to WWX being back? how she would feel about the core reveal as well as WWX + JC's reactions it and the way WN revealed the truth? how she would feel about what happened to Qin Su? also JYL had to die bc no way she's taking LWJ forcing her son to be quiet lightly (only half joking here).

ANON YES I AGREE WITH ALL OF THIS. I got another anon back when I first complained about Novel WWX who defended his lack of concern about his past actions with that exact argument: that meaningfully acknowledging and processing the consequences of his past actions would get in the way of his happily-ever-after with LWJ. But yeah, for my part, I much, much, much prefer the tangled mess of love and sacrifice and perceived betrayal that all iterations of Chengxian have going on to the Novel Wangxian holding pattern of LWJ behaving romantically towards WWX and WWX misinterpreting and/or not remembering over and over until they finally have bathtub sex.

And oh my god, there is SO MUCH GREAT STUFF you can do with JYL living! Yes, okay, you don't have as profound a rift with JC... but I think that's compensated for by there now being a rift between WWX and his beloved shijie whom he previously could count on to mother him and laugh good-naturedly at his antics without ever questioning. Suddenly, WWX's least complicated relationship has become one of his most complicated. How would he respond to that, especially since he can't write off JYL as being a cranky asshole like he can JC? When the sweetest person in the jianghu is unable to forgive you, but you know she loved you enough to risk her life to save you, what do you do with that? I get why the drama was reluctant to change such a huge plot point, but I'd love to have seen that explored within drama canon with its more-developed JYL in particular.

Re: JYL and QS, ahhhhh there are so many ways that could go! Is that particular tragedy prevented entirely, as JGS marries JYL off to JGY to keep JL at Lanling fulltime? Does JYL somehow get wind of Madame Qin's secret and break the news to QS herself? Does NHS use JYL--either wittingly or no--as one of his informants, and she delivers the letter not realizing the consequences it will have? At the very least, JYL would be a trusted friend and ensure that someone gave a damn about QS's death other than her husbandbrother who's trying to conceal a severed head.

And omg. Yeah, Hanguang-jun, you go ahead and try that silencing spell shit in front of JYL. JC has sect politics to consider. JYL's priority and actual job as dowager is to defend her son. The gloves are coming off.

[gravitywonagain]

Ok, but the whole Wen Qing sacrificial Au is like one big clusterfuck. And Wei Wuxian wouldn't know shit about the functions of his own new body. And what if the eyes of the body change color as a reaction to the new soul inhibiting it. He would have monthly bleedings! He would have to deal with cramps and fuck! He would understand so much more about his Shijie and Madame Yu!

Also correlating with the homecoming gift, what if she found a way to package her knowledge as a gift and Wei Wuxian now understands so much better why Wen Qing was so pissed about his disregard for his own health all the time. And he starts to connect that knowledge and know-how to develop his talismans and cultivation further!

How would Lan Wangji react to see the Wen doctor again, only for her to paralyze him after a fight with a monster where Lan Wangji just was not at his best, and actually check him over as if it was the most normal thing to do. What if Wei Wuxian went on and found a way to heal the scars on Lan Zhan's back to a degree where it's not visible anymore unless you know to search for it.

And he would get suibian back as soon as possible and fly with it. He would have his sword back. And if people ask he would just flippantly say that it only responds to people Wei Wuxian trusts and held dear to his heart.

Ah, sorry about my rambling, I have brain rot about this thing now. And I had a WIP where I was leaning on the aspect that Wei Wuxian was the son of a servant and had servant skills as well... You make me more work ^^'

yessss i love the rambling!!! i see the next one, too!!! sorry it took me a minute there was brain fog and then wife birthday daytripping and then many sleeps and now we're here

i am now a little bit obsessed with the idea of wq somehow passing on her vast amounts of medical cultivation knowledge to wwx. or at least imparting enough of it that he can do nonsense wwx innovation shit. something something the formation and structure of her core is built around the use of certain skills and techniques and this might have happened with mxy too but all of his previous knowledge was based off of wwx's own.................. yeah. fascinating. fun. i love it.

also the idea of wwx actually trying to pull of just being wq -- at least in public because there's no way he gets away with that around lwj -- is patently hilarious to me. but also! who knows her better than wwx and wn anyway? who else could possibly pull that off if not them? also i do love the shenanigans that ensue in a good identity porn fic.

okay so if i'm being very honest, half the reason for this au even popping up in my head is that i, like @jasontoddiefor, love a good genderswapped resurrection fic specifically because all of the nonsense that comes with having a uterus. (and also the idea of wangxian biological babies, like hell yes, their breeding kink dreams can become a reality, but also only if they try hard enough because actual conception can be fucking difficult!) and yes, after the years of malnutrition and general anxiety of living under threat finally starts to recede, wwx gets to deal with a whole new set of problems! lucky boy.

as for lan yuan, i feel like he might be grateful to see his qing-jie's face again, even though he's forgotten it, but would then mourn her presence and his xian-gege's face. it would be rough for him. moreso than with mxy because wq's face mixed with wwx's mannerisms might actually trigger some more memories earlier? idk, what do you think?

ALSO. i can't get over lwj figuring out how to marry wq without arousing the suspicion of the entire cultivation world. like this is early in my head. this happens just a few years after wwx dies. so a lot of The Nonsense hasn't happened yet. he gets out of seclusion and then immediately goes for the next worst person imaginable? the escaped but somehow not dead last daughter of the wen? lqr would have a fit. lxc would be confused as hell. jc would be furious and hurt and so even more furious. nhs would, probably, figure it out pretty quickly, as would jgy, and now the race is on. like this would be such a political nightmare and i'm living for it!!

[plan-d-to-i]

What's your opinion on JYL and JFM? I've seen a few say they were just as bad to WWX for not doing much to defend him, especially against Madam Yu, or like when JYL apologized to the Jins on his behalf.

I think the novel doesn't mean them to be seen as bad people just weak. I think I'm more defensive of JFM because fandom is really hard on him, while he was stuck in a terrible situation himself with his wife. The only way you can come out on top w YZY is to never fucking interact w her. To never marry her in the first place ideally. And he tried!

He didn’t like Yu ZiYuan’s conduct and felt that the two wouldn’t be an appropriate match. He had politely refused the offer a handful of times. However, the MeishanYu Sect set about multiple factors, putting pressure on Jiang FengMian, who was at the time still fairly young and had nothing to lean on. Along with the fact that, not long later, ZangSe SanRen had become cultivation partners with the most loyal servant at Jiang FengMian’s side, Wei ChangZe, and rode off into the sunset, roaming around the world, Jiang FengMian finally gave up.

Meishan Yu literally schemed behind the scenes to force JFM to marry this bitch so rip JFM you really pulled the short straw in life. Once he married she's not the type of person he can tell what to do.

Madam Yu, “What am I doing here? What a joke that I am asked of such a thing! Sect Leader Jiang, do you still remember that I’m also the leader of Lotus Pier? Do you still remember that every inch of the earth here is my territory? (Chapter 56)

Much like how JGS can't stop Madam Jin from beating the shit out of JGY... JFM tries to end WWX's punishments early, but he's doesn't seem capable of banning YZY from punishing him entirely. Although JFM is kind to WWX I don't see any favoritism. Correcting jc's behavior when it's wrong is not in fact showing favoritism towards WWX. & ultimately as WWX concludes later on regarding the Wen sibs:

Just as Wen Qing said, if Wen Chao truly wanted to kill anyone, it was unlikely for Wen Qing to be able to stop him. Perhaps she’d be affected as well. After all, children of others could never compare to children of one’s own.” (Chapter 60)

No matter how much he likes WWX, WWX is not his own son. JFM's last interaction with WWX is to ask him to care for jc.

As for YanLi I wrote about her more at length here. I think a lot of ppl in this fandom project really hard on her, so they get very defensive over what is a kindly but mediocre person who benefits from a heaping helping of privilege and WWX's rosy view. To be clear I don't think you're supposed to hate her in the novel. I think she's forgettable. The person who didn't quite catch WWX when he jumped from the tree. The mother of Jin Ling and the person who consistently showed WWX some crumbs of warmth in the Jiang household.

It's this fandom that made her into a soup goddess of goodness lmao. Personally I think it's absurd when they act like YanLi's not responsible for her own ignorance or choices. Like someone locked her in the attic and she didn't know what money or war refugees were. They try to blame the society she was raised in for why her ass only knew how to make soup and it's like... Her mother is YZY. Can't stand YZY but there's no way in hell she wanted her daughter making soup and not training or educating herself. Or that JFM was tyrannical and wouldn't let her do what she wanted. All this to say it's YanLi's own flipping choice to stay not knowing. So she'll always fall short in my eyes, compared to Wen Qing or Mianmian. And again people act like she was so helpless and no one would let her speak, yet:

“Jin ZiXun’s face was dark, but he didn’t respond. There were two reasons. First, he had never seen Jiang YanLi step up and talk before, so he didn’t know how strong his reply should be. Both Madam Jin and Jiang Cheng held Jiang YanLi in high regard, and he didn’t dare rashly go against them." (Chapter 73)

“The people who gathered around Jin ZiXun had on the same dark faces as he did. Yet, taking into consideration Jiang YanLi’s background, they didn’t dare talk back to her directly.” (Chapter 73)

“If the one currently saying these words wasn’t Jiang YanLi and instead some random person, Jin ZiXun would probably have come at them with a slap already. His face was almost black, but he kept his mouth shut.” (Chapter 73)

Ahhhh... look at all that privilege. No one reprimands YanLi for speaking up. Sharp fucking contrast to Mianmian. YanLi just doesn't want to speak up. She wants her wedding to go off without a hitch. She wants WWX to exclaim over her pretty dress and play nice with jiang cheng and probably stop w his foolishness w the Wen Remnants. Ig she thinks the mental image of her in her wedding dress will be much more filling than meals or funds. Ironically when jc, WWX & the other disciples were headed to the Wen indoctrination camp she loaded them w snacks, so maybe she gets how supplies work. She just didn't think WWX would need any when he was possibly starving on the corpse filled mountain.

Jiang YanLi saw them off, staying with them road after road. She filled everyone’s arms with all sorts of snacks, afraid that they’d starve at the QishanWen Sect. Clothes brimming with food, the twenty boys set off from Lotus Pier. (Chapter 51).

guess she's not sheltered enough to not understand how starving works... interesting. Luckily it's not my eyes she's being judged through and WWX certainly remembers her fondly. However he's not wracked with guilt about her death as fandom often portrays him- and rightly so bc it was her own harebrained ass that stumbled on a battlefield unarmed, and untrained and asked the guy everyone was attacking to stop fighting.

[crossdressingdeath]

Looking back, I feel like JC is projecting himself on JL. Like he couldn't do all this stuff as a teen so he's having JL do it. JC sets impossible standards JL couldn't possibly achieve on his own but JC expects him to. And I hate when people take the "I'll break you're legs" threat as coming from love. Like, even if teen JL knows it's an empty threat, he probably didn't as a kid. If I had to pick between an uncle who threatens me all the time and sets too high of expectations to an uncle with kind words and smiles if somewhat distant I'd definitely choose the latter.

For me the thing with the "Oh, JC threatens to break JL's legs out of love!!!!" argument is... point me to where it's suggested to be loving or joking. Show me JC smiling as he says it, or JL laughing at it. Show me anything suggesting that it's anything more than an empty threat that JL knows is empty only because JC has made it so many times and never actually did it (presumably because actually attacking the heir to another sect and breaking his legs, nephew or not, would in fact not be taken as a sign of avuncular affection by the sects at large). JL runs all the way to Koi Tower to get JGY's protection FROM JC at one point, explain to me how that says he thinks JC's threats are "loving". And if he doesn't think they're loving, explain to me how JC continuing to make them when JL thinks they're serious but probably won't go anywhere and responds accordingly is anything other than abuse.

And yeah, JC is definitely projecting onto JL; he's expecting JL to be the super-prodigy mega-genius who can outdo WWX in all ways that JC wanted to but obviously never could. And obviously JL can't be that; for one thing he doesn't have WWX's once-in-a-generation genius, and for another JC isn't teaching him how to be that sort of cultivator. JC teaches JL what he believes, which is 1. abuse authority, 2. cheat, 3. give up when it gets hard, and then expects JL to be like Brilliant Self-Sacrificing Genius WWX by... magic, I guess? Because of course he does. Because it's not like he's not WWX's equal because he's a horrible person who can't be arsed to make any effort to improve and doing his best to teach JL to follow in his footsteps while expecting him to be like WWX was doomed to failure in the first place, or anything. He wants JL to outdo WWX, but never really bothered to teach JL to outdo WWX; the only "teaching" we see him offer is "Hey, do this thing that I probably couldn't do even now never mind at your age or I'll never let you come home again" which... you know... isn't so much teaching as it is an ultimatum and it nearly gets JL killed because JL takes it seriously and throws himself into battle with a foe he knows he can't defeat. And then JC yells at JL for being an idiot! Even though JL just did what JC told him to do. Hey uh. JC stans. This guy? This guy. This is the guy you're insisting is the best uncle ever? The guy who orders his nephew to fight a foe well beyond his skills and then yells at him for doing it? Him? Really?

[llycaons]

ep48 (1/3): thank fucking god jc and wwx are finally talking it out

this was sweet. when does lwj ever defend someone to wwx rather than vice versa? but he dutifully reports than wen ning didn't do this happily

wwx rolling his eyes like 'oh GOD here we go again'

okay okay but I am so excited for this because I truly believe this is jc's absolutely best scene best monologue best interaction with wwx in the SHOW. finally everything coming to light! finally communication! finally a solid closure to the rage and grief that has torn them apart! but first it displays all of jc's issues and problems so so clearly

and it start off with jc bitterly praising wwx for being such a saint. which I really enjoy on a writing level, because it's very self-aware. it's easy as a reader to think that jc should bow down in gratitude, but jc as a character has a lot of pride and judges things very differently - he's a living, breathing, thinking character who has his own beliefs, principles, grudges, and motivations

I don't even know how to describe this. mocking praise? it's very characteristic of jc of this arc. sarcastic, insecure, and bitter, keenly aware of wwx's achievements and virtues and resenting him for them. idk what he wants wwx to do...obviously he's not thinking rationally but wwx can't help being good at stuff

he's making wwx entirely responsible for his feelings. not even 'you did this and I felt this way' but 'you are this way and I'm different and it's your fault that I'm not as good'

not even forgiving the debt owed from all those decades ago, even knowing the truth! he also has a big victim complex - even when wwx was being disrespected and even abused in ways jc wasn't, he still remembers it the way it'll suit his needs. no capacity to consider wwx's troubles or suffering. absolutely no emotional imagination. not that being low-empathy makes you a bad person, but the way he acted has never been part of a healthy relationship w wwx

this moment captures him SO well. while castigating wwx about jin ling, jin ling himself tries to reach out - to comfort or dissuade. and jc throws him off, impatient and angry and entirely focused on the object of his revenge rather than the living child he claims to be trying to protect, the child who's right there asking for his attention

this also feels very self-aware of the writing. almost...lampshading? not the right term. it feels fair and right that one major character close to wwx, and sympathetic despite his behavior, is holding wwx to task for this. I am obviously on wwx's side, but it makes sense than people would be upset but what happened and it feels very honest to allow jc this bitterness and anger rather than forcing everyone in the story to immediately forgive and love him. it adds texture and complexity to the characters and the world, and it makes actions like lwj's more significant. jc was never going to be the partner wwx needed, and that's extremely important to the story

another fair accusation. on the other hand it was pretty clear wwx was majorly depressed after the war and while jc might have been angry with him for drinking, he only responded with punishment instead of, idk, compassion for the other sibling who lost his entire home and family? jc didn't talk to wwx either

I read this as jc angry with himself for not being able to truly hate wwx, and blaming wwx himself for...not being hateable? it's very convoluted. jc needs so much therapy

CLOWN MOMENT

wwx touching lwj's hand to prevent him from jumping to wwx's defense, jl interpreting lwj leaning forward as him about to attack, and jc tearfully saying "I can take him!! you think I'm scared of him?" a lot going on here

oof. ough

there it is 😭 circumstances of the past aside, I'm glad they made it this point

...is that a smile? I can't even tell I swear

and NOW he's calling HIMSELF pathetic for even caring that much. my guy I think easing off on being judgemental towards yourself and your loved ones might help

JIANG CHENG APOLOGY EVENT CATCH IT ONCE EVERY TWENTY YEARS 🎇🎉🎈🎁

I can't tell if this is putting distance between jc and wwx (bc wwx is saying he did it as payment) or bringing them closer (bc wwx is saying there's no need for jc to regret or agonize over the past anymore)

I forgot how satisfying this scene was. wwx went through so many trials and despite the residual trauma, he really feels like he's able to move on. and that can include jc too

🥺🥺🥺

I believe in yunmeng sibling reconciliation!!! this was a really hopeful and honest and cathartic discussion and I feel really good about their future relationship. I get caught up in the scenes before this and I just a lot of jc fic writers on it, but after this scene I can def see their dynamic becoming much less antagonistic. wwx isn't joking about his pain or making excuses for jc or talking about how much he likes to be mistreated - he's gentle and honest and real. and he wants to move on. finally. finally they got there

[llycaons]

ep21 (p2): a lot of pensive staring in this one

this was a strange scene, and one that still baffles me. many questions:

why do we need to see the wen prisoners this early? we see wq later on her own, and it makes more sense for her to wander for a while alone than get captured and then escape leaving her granny behind. we see the wen prisoners later too, their harassment and their murders and their imprisonment.

what is wwx DOING? the smoke seems to flare up when he's angry about something then he plays and causes an avalanche. we've already seen that his music can do damage! and we see and hear him say later that his powers are connected to his emotional state

next question is whether his cultivation is connected to the yin iron, which is turns out it can be, but this scene has nothing to do with the yin iron either so ??????

it's very odd and if I was a novel reader I'd definitely be annoyed. one of the weaker choices from the drama

also wen qing in full makeup with one smear of dirt artfully applied to her forehead. okay!

and then he's SO DRAMATIC coming in lmao the wind coming in at his back everyone covering his eyes, and he's all cryptic despite lxc's best efforts to figure out what the fuck he's talking about

he says this but he still closes his eyes to inconvenient political situations if questioning them would cause any disruption in his sect or the system. his defense of jgy is out of compassion for a man discriminated against, but it's also out of a personal affection for him. and lxc is uncomfortable with injustuce, but he's an able politician and he doesn't have the intensity of lwj towards his principles, nor wwx's comittment or clearsightedness

oh boy, this scene. is there a more loaded silence in this entire show?

lwj lies so fucking much as a teenager it's hilarious how he got his reputation

jc lmao

this is a weird thing to say. first of all, it's hurtful when wwx clearly cared about lwj a lot, and second of all does he really think lwj was so determined to find wwx just out of wartime camaraderie? it's easy to assume lwj disliked wwx in CR, but surely three months of frantic searching and the threat of torture led jc to realize that maybe lwj cares about wwx on a personal level

...god, maybe not. jc and lwj were really never going to connect, huh. jc takes him at face value and lwj extends no compassion towards him in return

coming from YOU?!

this scene made me laugh. jc like 'get rid of your naughty toys!' and wwx like 'suuuure, yeah I'll DEFINITELY do that'

their dynamic here is pretty fun ngl

ah! the depression setting back in. his eyes look so empty...some of it misery over the general situation, losing lwj etc. but also. the trauma

oh I love this scene. the restraint behind not knocking. ah! my heart is a-flutter

walking away in the middle of a conversation bc he's mad ♥♥♥♥♥ truly he and wwx were made for each other they love leaving situations

I love this expression of his. truly does look on the verge of tears and MAD about it. a really important thing about lwj as a character is that he is so so seething with emotional at any given moment and he can't verbalize it so he expresses it physically. or artistically.

here, he's attacking wwx as all his pent-up anger and frustration and hurt erupt and it's a language that wwx knows how to speak too and responds to. I don't know how they would have started talking again if it wasn't through this fight. going up to him and saying 'hey can we talk?' would only have resulted in more deflection, lies, and manipulation. but they're honest when they fight like this

and this shot. whew

personal highlights:

jyl was incredible in this episode! I know most ppl's favorite scene for her is dressing down jzx, but I like to appreciate her more everyday acts of love and guidance as well

wwx referring to himself as 'no longer a child' fucking ruined me

lxc explaining the fact that nuance exists in a really kind and nonjudgemental way

that tense meeting of the two sets of brothers

jc and wwx conversation where jc expresses concern like a normal person and then does an epic eye roll

lwj and wwx both lying point blank to their families

lwj being SO reserved at the door makes me feel like a victorian maiden

the abrupt attack was really fun too. FIGHT!!!