#critical role discourse

[topazsink]

Sometimes Taliesin will dance around an aspect of his character, and other times he will give a hard “no.”

Him saying, “No, Ashton did not manipulate Fearne using her feelings for them because they don’t realize she has feelings for them because he thinks he’s UNLOVABLE” is *chef’s kiss*

God, so many people are eating their words right now.

[song-of-baldy-ron]

Also I will not stand for infantilizing Ashley Johnson in this fucking house. If she, or any of the cast, is upset they will make it clear next week or settle it offline like the adults they are.

In her words every time Sam sneezes, STOP IT

[deramin2]

I want someone to explain to me how Bell's Hell's "obviously failed" the doppelganger test.

They were told two of them were fakes working against the other. The players had an absolute blast throwing ridiculous accusations at each other as per the game. Mind magic didn't work, so the mind magic enjoyers were trying to figure out how to communicate like normal people. Orym tried asking elaborately specific questions about past events that no one else actually remembered, but were close enough to pass the test. They were both working together and hedging their bets.

Imogen was the first to hit on the idea that there were no doppelgangers and no traitors. Slowly others listened and they worked together to solve the challenge. No one told them the answer. They didn't get a mulligan. They worked out on their own that the parameters they were given were fake and there never was a traitor. That was precisely what they were supposed to do.

So how is that actually a loss? What would they have had to do to win to you? Trust each other from the beginning even though they were EXPLICITLY told not to? This makes zero sense to me. They won. There was a goal and they accomplished it. That's how you win games. What secret rules did they break?

[dreanner95]

The funniest people are the ones shipping Percy & Vex or Caleb & Essek but decrying now how they don't like Imogen & Laudna because of how toxic they are. Every CR campaign had a less healthy romantic pairing and in C1 and in C2 they became the most famous ships. But suddenly in C3 people feel the need to dumb Imogen and Laudna down to their most toxic traits.

[the-matron-of-ravens]

So, it’s understandable for Laudna to almost kill FCG and to actually kill Bor’dor when betrayed because she was triggered.

It’s understandable that Imogen lost control and leveled an *entire city block* because Laudna was killed and she lost control.

It’s understandable - and cool actually - that Fearne didn’t fully heal FCG because she was mad at him for hurting Laudna and he almost died because of it.

(Meanwhile all of Bells Hells readily accept all of the divine healing FCG has to give (which to my memory he’s never denied someone) no matter how much they hate the source of it.)

It’s even understandable that Chetney lost control at the Ruidus flare and almost bit Orym or Fearne (and DID bite FRIDA).

But it’s NOT okay for FCG to also lose control and go Murderbot. He’s an abusive monster for doing so.

It’s NOT okay for Orym to be incapable of keeping others in line anymore - and even more it’s HIS fault for Laudna losing control cause he didn’t reign her in.

Like I want to be so clear I don’t actually hold ill will for any of them for any of this. It’s juicy conflict and delicious. But I am getting very annoyed at the very prevalent double standards, seemingly because those characters don’t have the opinions fans like.

And I also hate the part of me that is worried I’ll lose followers for being Too Negative or not having the Right Opinions but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[criticalbeauregard]

if i was a bull instead of a red cloth they could just show me keyleth hate comments and i would be sent into a blind rage and destroy everything

[hand-of-devotion]

The take that Ashton should be punished/"nerfed" by losing his dunamantic abilities and having the hypothetical elemental themed ones replace it is? So wild to me tbh.

Like. If we're being honest, the titan abilities could literally be ANYTHING. So instead of introducing an entire new set of abilities for a functionally new subclass while getting rid of the ones we've been seeing all campaign? If the rewards would really make a single character THAT unbalanced? It would probably be 100 times easier to just nerf/adjust whatever hypothetical abilities they were supposed to be adding in the first place to make it more "fair".

Because they already have the Ka'mort shard and the only mechanics "benefit" it's given thus far is the fact that it changed Ashton's pre-campaign race from half-elf to earth genasi. Which is arguably not even a benefit because he didn't keep the features/traits of a half-elf. Then the only known narrative benefit has been the fact that they seem to have an unnaturally heightened connection to nature/eidolons. Which has only ever been for ultimately inconsequential narrative implications or adding a little spice to explain/"justify" the effect of certain dice rolls.

So we have no real established expectations for what the "awakened titan" abilities will be. It'll be sad to have them watered down but would make way more sense than just scrapping an entire homebrew subclass's mechanics?

[nottanickname]

I love it when the cast/characters makes controversial narrative choices like Taliesin did tonight and suddenly you have all the snide "well I've never liked -insert player/character here- and this just proves it" think pieces until the next episode or until the cast gushes about how much they loved playing out that choice.

[finniferd]

Only Fearne Calloway has the charm and charisma to be able to neatly clean up her mess by getting it laid and this is why we stan.

[topazsink]

This might be beating a dead horse, but the minds of this fandom are really weird at times.

Like y’all will pile the hate on Orym for pressuring Imogen to stay focused on what they need to do (not saying he’s right but I also see where he’s coming from, it’s a crappy situation) … but say “Essek starting a war and doing MANY MORALLY REPREHENSIBLE THINGS was because he had TRAUMA and he should never face repercussions for that poor baby”

Honestly, for a lot of people around here, how you judge a character’s actions is intrinsically connected to how much you like them - or how much you like them compared to how much you like who they’re squaring off against. Thinking through the arguments logically and trying to understand different points is thrown out in favor of just following your bias.

Idk if all this makes sense I’m just tired of seeing people in this fandom going to war with each other on who’s a “good or bad person” when in actuality it depends on who you like.

[witchfable]

A pet peeve of mine is how often Essek's boundaries are treated like a joke. Like, him being pressured into a hug he was clearly uncomfortable with as a thank you for the Xhorhaus, the "We all appreciated that, Essek" comment after he showed them he didn't have one of the Eyes on his body, the group hug where he was audibly groaning in discomfort, probably more if I did a rewatch. I'm glad that, with Ashton, people's boundaries regarding touch are being taken more seriously in the show, but I wish that sentiment had been present earlier.

[some-one-thing]

I get that the characters and players aren't too keen on religion, i get that Marisha and her characters hate the idea of gods controlling stuff, i get that ashton is a punk and that everyone else (aside FCG) isn't keen on the gods.

But they were given a vision by a god in her temple, even without believing in her as well as got multum of useful stuff about the perspective of the clerics, and yet they still doubt in helping the gods.

I may be ignorant here but i don't think any of them ever suffered because of the gods. In fact quite the opposite, Pike with the powers of Seranre allowed Laudna to even be resurrected.

Ashton feels abbandoned by them and doesn't care but to me his idea that the gods have "favourites" disregard that gods aren't there and the only way they help is through the people that truly commit to the belief and through doing stuff for their cause. I am happy that he doesn't wish to kneel for them and that he stands up for himself, but it severely damaged the idea of how the gods work in Exandria.

And only FCG speaks in true favor of the gods side and his arguments make sense, but the other players seem to be lost in the idea that gods aren't worth saving.

The goal of this rant is that i feel like the players seem to be so lost in the idea of gods not being worthy allies (which extends to their followers), that even after being granted a vision they seem to not acknowledge that the gods helped them- FCG being the main proof that the gods are willing to help.

(I am also mad they so much world changing info to themselves which definitely will lead to major casualties, like telling vox machina right away ab secret of Ruidus or giving advice to the soldiers on what to expect, - remember Predathos is a secret to all, i doubt few if any clerics know even about it's existence)

TL;DR Players are too convinced that gods and their followers won't help them even after getting a free vision, which in company of them withholding information on Predathos is gonna lead to unnecessary deaths and tragedies imo.

Also i think Laudna gonna find out ab Imogens lightning tiddies real soon-

[deramin2]

Something about stripping women of autonomy and responsibility for their choices because a man said he'd back up whatever they do but has a preference just does not sit with me right at all in the current Critical Role discourse. Like woman can't want power on their own, it has to be a man forcing them. Woman can't choose their own corruption, it has to be a man corrupting them. Heck, a woman PLAYER can't decide it's more interesting for her character to take a darker turn, it needs a man's approval first. Let woman be fucked up all on their own. Having a man say he'll support bad decisions isn't making the decision for her. This is actually a pretty misogynistic line of thinking that's bugging the hell out of me. Woman aren't pure and perfect brings who only make good choices until men are there.

[dreanner95]

Most of the Imodna hate boils down to buzzwords that mean nothing. For example: They get called "bland" but when you read explanations about that you realise these people just can't deal with the fact that Imogen and Laudna actually support each other and don't have romance tropes as part of their relationship. Characters in fiction don't actually have to hate or resent each other most of the time and suddenly realise they actually love each other to have an interesting relationship. And they get called toxic because they are "codependent" which makes even less sense. Since when have characters who are codepentent automatically the most toxic relationship? They are codependent in the same way Pike and Grog or Vex and Vax are codependent and I have not seen anyone call them toxic. And no, them prioritizing each other over everyone else in BH does not prove they are toxic, just that they have a pretty intimate relationship. Not every adventure party has to become the perfect found family where everyone loves everyone else equally. Campaign 3 and Imodna as a romance is much more complicated and some people don't seem to want to accept.

[the-matron-of-ravens]

“The worst thing BH has done to Orym is ask him to question the status quo”

Ummmmm no. The worst thing the Bells Hells have done is repeatedly question in front of Orym if maybe the Ruby Vanguard is Right, Actually and maybe they shouldn’t stop them and implied that maybe their means are Justified cause Gods = Bad. Knowing full well that they attacked his home and leader unprovoked and murdered his husband and father. Even after he’s repeatedly expressed how that makes him feel.

We can fight all day about whose trauma this fandom fixates more over. But don’t try to tell me that this is just “questioning the status quo” and that this wouldn’t be *devastating* for someone to hear from their friends

[aresine]

Idk if this has been discoursed about before lol, but to me Calm Emotions has the potential to be (and often is used as) such an EVIL spell and the fact that it is used so lightly kind of surprises me. If someone did that to me (especially my FRIENDS??) I'd be like ???? what are you doing to me in this vulnerable moment? Stripping away peoples access to their emotions makes me feel so weird.

Am I rambling here?