#curds and whey

[lovelyllamasblog]

Maisie Muffet 🥣

Parent’s Story: Little Miss Muffet

Powerful Qualities: Creative, Generous, Authentic

Roommate: Helga Crumb

Birthday: December 8

Star Sign: Sagittarius ♐

Favorite Food: My Frozen Yo-Cord. Delicious!

Secret Heart’s Desire: I want to expand my Frozen Yo-Curd business. Archie says we should move it outside of the Dark Forest first.

My “Magic” Touch: Despite what my story says, I always know where Archie is. He tries to be sneaky, but he sometimes fails.

Storybook Romance Status: I’m not really focused on romance at the moment. I just want my business to flourish.

“Oh Curses!” Moment: I cannot turn down a good bowl of custard and whey. It’s one of my favorite dishes.

Favorite Subject: Cooking Class-ic. I love experimenting with new ways to expand my menu.

Least Favorite Subject: Poison Fruit Theory. I’m not trying to poison people with my custard! That would be ridiculous.

Best Friends Forever After: Helga Crumb is always hungry, so that means she and Gus are hexcellent people to test taste my newest creations!

Pet: Archie the Spider

[lowpawly]

was so hungry that i impulse bought a container of cottage cheese and then proceeded to eat 80% of it like a wild animal as soon as i got home

[bl1tzzard]

I was talking to my dad about the subpar mac n cheese I had overcooked, to the point where the milk had almost separated. My dear father thought about it for a moment before saying, "So it was filing for the divorce, but hadn't submitted the papers?"

[pynkhues]

Dragging myself through writing about cheese so I can go back to editing my vampire story 😭

[ilearnedthistodaysblog]

#1273 What are curds and whey?

What are curds and whey? The curds are the coagulated proteins from milk and the whey is the left over liquid. Cheese is a diary product made by coagulating casein, which is the milk protein. Making milk into cheese is a good way of making it last much longer because cheese doesn’t spoil as fast as milk does. Nobody knows when cheese was discovered, but it was probably about 10,000 years ago. The thinking behind this is that humans domesticated sheep around this time, and these were the first milk producing animals that we domesticated. The milk needed to be stored and it was probably stored in clay pots, but it would also have been stored in sheep’s stomachs, which make good, watertight containers. These sheep stomachs  could have still contained rennet, which would have coagulated the milk and made the curds and whey separate. Rennet is found in all young ruminants and it is there to help them break down and digest the milk they drink. It disappears as they get older. Interestingly, sheep were the second animal that humans domesticated. The first was the dog, roughly 15,000 years ago. That made sense because they were very useful for hunting and before we found agriculture, we were hunter gatherers. Then we domesticated sheep 10,000 years ago and pigs 2,000 years after that. We domesticated cattle shortly after pigs and we domesticated horses 6,000 years ago. That is surprisingly recent. After the discovery of cheese, it went through many evolutions and by the time of the Romans, there were many different types of cheeses. One of the oldest still eaten cheeses is called Pecorino romano and it is made from sheep’s milk. The Roman legionaries were given it as part of their ration. It lasts a long time and is easy to store. The legionaries were given 27 grams of it a day. Cheese is made by coagulating the milk protein called casein. Coagulation is when a liquid changes into a solid state. We are most familiar with it in our blood. If we have a wound, the blood very quickly coagulates in the wound to seal it up. To make cheese, you have to remove the water. This is done by separating the milk into the curds and whey and to do this you have to make the milk coagulate. The first step is to add bacteria to the milk. This is the same thing that you do when making yoghurt, but the bacteria tend to be different. Different bacteria are used for different flavors of cheeses. The bacteria feed on the sugar in the milk, which is there as lactose, and create lactic acid as a byproduct. This lactic acid makes the milk start to curdle, which is another word for coagulate. The acid makes the casein in the milk, which is the main protein, unwind. When the proteins unwind, it is easier for them to get tangled up and they start to clump together. This is why you get lumps in milk if you let it get old. At this point, the enzyme we found in sheep’s stomachs, rennet, is added. Rennet makes the proteins that were beginning to tangle together to join up and hold together. Once this has happened, the liquid can be removed from the cheese. The solid bits that have coagulated are the curds, and the liquid is the whey. These days, most cheese is made by using rennet produced in a lab because the only way of getting traditional rennet is by killing the young animal. After the liquid has been removed, the curd is salted and then pressed. This gets out any remaining liquid and squashes the cheeses together into a shape that will hold. The cheese is then taken to be aged for one month to sometimes as long as two years. By altering the milk, the bacteria, or any of the other steps in the process, you can completely alter the taste and the texture of the cheese. That is why there are so many types of cheese. It is estimated that there are over 2,000 types of cheese. Because they contain salt and they don’t contain any water, cheese will last for a very long time. It is a very inhospitable environment for bacteria to flourish. Although, of course, that depends on the type of cheese. Hard cheeses, such as Parmesan, are dried more than other cheeses and can last even longer. If you have a hard cheese and there is some mold on the edge, you can cut that bit off and still eat the rest of the cheese. And this is what I learned today. Try these next: - #53 What are the blue bits in blue cheese? - #993 What is a guard llama? - #481 Why can’t all animals be domesticated? - #208 How do cows produce milk? - #290 Why does UHT milk last so long? Sources https://www.thecourtyarddairy.co.uk/blog/just-cheese-made-heres-basic-outline/?srsltid=AfmBOoqHnD9PZLl43HcSymAd8JONxx3COVWURzNcvGsDVDKhDmIiDDFl https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese https://nhccmuseum.org/history-of-cheese/ https://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/horse/domesticating-horses/domestication-timeline https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pecorino_romano https://www.bleedingdisorders.com/about/how-blood-clots-coagulation https://www.tastingtable.com/1212578/what-actually-is-curds-and-whey https://www.thekitchn.com/the-science-behind-why-acid-curdles-milk-222962 https://www.kitchenaid.com/pinch-of-help/major-appliances/types-of-cheese.html Photo by Carlo Primo: https://www.pexels.com/photo/dutch-cheese-shop-display-in-waalwijk-29412671/ Read the full article

[grotesque-gargoyle]

today i learnt about casein glue

thanks to my cat, two of my books have become firmly glued together with kefir and i don't know how to unstick them and apparently nobody online has ever had this problem before

[najia-cooks]

[ID: Seven yoghurt balls on a plate drizzled with olive oil. The one in the center is plain; the others are covered in mint, toasted sesame seeds, ground sumac, za'tar, crushed red chili pepper, and nigella seeds. End ID]

لبنة نباتية / Labna nabatia (Vegan labna)

Labna (with diacritics: "لَبْنَة"; in Levantine pronunciation sometimes "لَبَنَة" "labanay") is a Levantine cow's, sheep's, or goat's milk yoghurt that has been strained to remove the whey and leave the curd, giving it a taste and texture in between those of a thick, tart sour cream and a soft cheese. The removal of whey, in addition to increasing the yoghurt's tanginess and pungency, makes it easier to preserve: it will keep in burlap or cheesecloth for some time without refrigeration, and may be preserved for even longer by rolling it into balls and submerging the balls in olive oil. Labna stored in this way is called "لبنة كُرَات" ("labna kurāt") or "لبنة طابات" ("labna ṭābāt"), "labna balls." Labna may be spread on a plate, topped with olive oil and herbs, and eaten as a dip for breakfast or an appetizer; or spread on kmaj bread alongside herbs, olives, and dates to make sandwiches.

The word "labna" comes from the Arabic root ل ب ن (l b n), which derives from a Proto-West-Semitic term meaning "white," and produces words relating to milk, yoghurt, nursing, and chewing. The related term "لَبَن" ("laban"; also transliterated "leban") refers to milk in Standard Arabic, but in Levantine Arabic is more likely to refer to yoghurt; a speaker may specify "لَبَن رَائِب‎" (laban rā'ib), "curdled milk," to avoid confusion.

Labna is a much-beloved food in Palestine, with some people asserting that no Palestinian home is without a jar. Making labna tabat is, for many, a necessary preparation for the winter season. However, by the mid-2010s, the continuation of Israel's blockade of the Gaza strip, as well as Israeli military violence, had severely weakened Gaza's dairy industry to the point where almost no labna was being produced. Most of the 11 dairy processors active in Gaza in 2017 (down from 15 in 2016) only produced white cheese—though Mustafa Eid's company Khalij had recently expanded production to other forms of dairy that could be made locally with limited equipment, such as labna, yoghurt, and buttermilk.

Dairy farmers and processors pushed for this kind of innovation and self-sufficiency against deep economic disadvantage. With large swathes of Gaza's arable land rendered unusable by Israeli border policing and land mines, about 90% of farmers were forced by scarce pasture land and low fodder production to feed their herds with increasingly expensive fodder imported from Israel—dairy farmers surveyed in 2017 spent an estimated 87% of their income on fodder, which had doubled in price since 2007. Cattle were thus fed with low quantities of, or low-quality, fodder, resulting in lower milk production and lower-quality milk.

Most dairy processors were also unable to access or afford the equipment necessary to maintain, upgrade, or diversify their factories. Since 2007, Israel has tightly restricted entry into Gaza of items which they consider to have a "dual use": i.e., a potential civilian and military function. This includes medical equipment, construction materials, and agricultural equipment and machinery, and impacts everything from laboratory equipment to ensure safe food supplies to packaging and labelling equipment. Of the dairy products that Gazan farmers and processors do manage to produce, Israel's control over their export can cause huge financial losses—as when Israel prohibited the export of Palestinian dairy and meat to East Jerusalem without warning in March of 2020, costing estimated annual losses of 300 million USD.

In addition to this kind of economic manipulation, direct military violence threatens Gaza's dairy industry. Mamoun Dalloul says that his factory was accused of holding rockets and subsequently bombed in 2008, 2010, 2012, and again in 2014, resulting in repeated moves and the loss of the capability to produce yellow cheese. The Israeli military partially or totally destroyed 10 dairy processing factories, and killed almost 2,000 cows, during its 2014 invasion of Gaza, resulting in an estimated 43 million USD of damage to the dairy sector alone. Damage to cow-breeding farms in 2014 reduced the number of dairy cows to 2,600, just over half their previous number. Damage to, or destruction of, wells, water reservoirs, water tanks, and the Gaza Power Plant's fuel tank exacerbated pre-existing problems with producing cattle feed and with the transportation, processing, and refrigeration of dairy products, leading to spoiled milk that had to be disposed of. Repeated offensives made dairy processors reluctant to re-invest in equipment that could be destroyed at any time.

Israeli industry profits by making Gazan self-sufficiency untenable. Israeli goods entering Palestine are not subject to import taxes, and Israeli dairy companies are not dealing with the contaminated water, limited electricity, high costs of feed, out-of-date and expensive-to-repair equipment, and scarce land (some companies, such as Tnuva, purchase milk from farms on illegal settlements in the West Bank) with which Gazan producers must contend. The result is that the local market in Gaza is flooded with imports that are cheaper, more diverse, and of higher quality than anything that local producers can offer. Many consumers believe that Israeli products are safer to eat.

Nevertheless, Gazans continue building and rebuilding. Despite significant decreases in ice cream factories' production after the imposition of Israel's blockade in 2007, Abu Mohammad noted in 2015 that locally produced ice cream was cheaper and more varied than Israeli imports. In 2017, the amount of dairy sold in 74 shops in Gaza that was sourced locally, rather than from Israel, had increased from 10% to 60%. Ayadi Tayyiba, the region's first factory with an all-woman staff, opened in 2022; it produced cheese, yoghurt, and labna with sheep's milk from affiliated farms. However, demand for sheep's milk products has decreased in Gaza due to its higher production costs, leading the factory to supplement its supply with purchased cow's milk.

The current Israeli genocidal offensive on Gaza has caused damage of the same kind as—though to a greater extent than—previous shellings and invasions. Lack of ability to sell milk that had already been produced to factories, as well as lack of access to electricity, caused an estimated 35,000 liters of milk to spoil daily in October of 2023.

Support Palestinian resistance by calling Elbit System’s (Israel’s primary weapons manufacturer) landlord, donating to Palestine Legal's activist defense fund, and donating to Palestine Action’s bail fund.

Equipment:

A blender

A kettle or pot, to boil water

A cheesecloth or tea towel

Ingredients:

1 cup (130g) cashews (soaked, if your blender is not high-speed)

3/4 cup filtered or distilled water, boiled

1-3 vegetarian probiotic capsules (containing at least 10 billion cultures total)

A few pinches sea salt

More water, to boil

Arabic-language recipes for vegan labna use bulghur, almonds, or cashews as their base. This recipe uses cashew to achieve a smooth, creamy, non-crumbly texture, and a mild taste like that of cow's milk labna. You might try replacing half the cashews with blanched almonds for a flavor more similar to that of sheep's or goat's cheese.

Make sure your probiotic capsules contain no prebiotics, as they can interfere with the culture. The probiotic may be multi-strain, but should contain some of: Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus rhamnosus, Bifidobacterium bifidus, Lactobacillus acidophilus. The number of capsules you need will depend on how many cultures each capsule is guaranteed to contain.

Instead of probiotic capsules, you can use a speciality starter culture pack intended for use in culturing vegan dairy, many of which are available online. Note that starter cultures may be packaged with small amounts of powdered milk for the bacteria to feed on, and may not be truly vegan.

If you want a mustier, goat-ier taste to your labna, try replacing the water with rejuvelac made with wheat berries.

You can also start a culture by using any other product with active cultures, such as a spoonful of vegan cultured yoghurt. If you have a lot of cultured yoghurt, you can just skip to straining that directly (step 5) to make your labna—though you won't be able to control how tangy the labna is that way.

Instructions:

This recipe works by blending together cashews and water into a smooth, creamy spread, then culturing it into yoghurt, and then straining it (the way yoghurt is strained to make labna). It's possible that you could skip the straining step by adding more cashews, or less water, to the yoghurt to obtain a thicker texture, but I have not tested the recipe this way.

1. If your blender is not high-speed, you will need to soak your cashews to soften them. Soak in filtered or distilled water for 2-4 hours at room temperature, or overnight in the fridge. Rinse them off with just-boiled water.

2. Boil several cups of water and use the just-boiled water to rinse your blender, tamper, measuring cups, the bowl you will ferment your yoghurt in, and a wooden spoon or rubber spatula to stir. Your bowl and stirring implement should be in a non-reactive material such as wood, clay, glass, or silicone.

3. Make the yoghurt. Blend cashews with 3/4 cup just-boiled water for a couple of minutes until very smooth. Transfer to your bowl and allow to cool to about skin temperature (it should feel slightly warm if dabbed on the inside of your wrist). If the mixture is too hot, it may kill the bacteria.

4. Culture the yoghurt. Open the probiotic capsules and stir the powder into the cashew paste. Cover the bowl with a cheesecloth or tea towel. Ferment for 24 hours: on the countertop in summer, or in an oven with the light on in winter.

Taste the yoghurt with a clean implement (avoid double-dipping!). Continue fermenting for another 12-24 hours, depending on how tangy you want your labna to be. A skin forming on top of the yoghurt is no problem and can be mixed back in. Discard any yoghurt that grows mold of any kind.

5. Strain the yoghurt to make labna. Place a mesh strainer in a bowl, making sure there's enough room beneath the strainer for liquid to collect at the bottom of the bowl; line the strainer with cheesecloth or a tea towel, and scoop the cultured yoghurt in. Sprinkle salt over top of the yoghurt. Fold the towel or cheesecloth back over the yoghurt, and add a small weight, such as a ceramic plate or a can of beans, on top.

You can also tie the cheesecloth into a bag around a wooden spoon and place the wooden spoon across the rim of a pitcher or other tall container to collect the whey. The draining may occur less quickly without the weight, though.

Strain in the refrigerator for 24-48 hours, depending on the desired texture. I ended up draining about 2 Tbsp of whey.

6. If not making labna balls: Put in an airtight jar, and add just enough olive oil to cover the surface of the labna. Store in the fridge for up to two months.

7. To form balls (optional): Oil your hands to form the labna into small balls and place them on a baking sheet lined with parchment paper. They may still be quite soft.

Optionally sprinkle with, or roll in, dried mint, za'tar, sesame seeds, nigella seeds (القزحة), ground sumac, or crushed red chili pepper, as desired.

Optionally, for firmer balls, lightly cover with another layer of parchment paper and then a kitchen towel, and leave in the refrigerator to dry for about a day.

Place labna balls in a clean glass jar and add olive oil to cover. Retrieve labna from the jar with a clean implement. They will last in the fridge for about a year.

[celticcatgirl2]

“Someone get that SCARY SPIDER OFF of my CURDS AND WHEY!!!”

[dreadwedge]

wow. I really am the premiere new york city street vendor of specifically curds and whey. if you eat my curds you will agree. if you eat my whey you will agree. if you were to perch upon my tuffet you would be amazed by the premium material which sets me above the rest, the common curdsmongers and whey stands with inferior with only uncomfrtable pleather tuffets upon which tyop perch when patronizing their unremarkable (spiderless) whey stands. you would say "i am amazed by the taste." you would say "i am amazed by the premium tuffet material". you would say "i am amazed by the spider". you would say "wow. you really are the premiere new york city street vendor of curds and whey. i have et of your curds and I agree. I have et of your whey and i know it to be true.

[desertdollranch]

Making Cheese with Josefina

Today Josefina learned how to make cheese! She's finally old enough to do the task with guidance from her older sisters. And she's here with me to teach everyone else how to do the same, following the directions contained in Josefina's Cookbook, which will be shared at the end of this post.

The Montoya rancho keeps a small herd of goats specifically to use for their milk. They use it in cooking and for drinking, and they preserve it by making cheese, which can be stored and used through the winter or other times when the female goats aren't lactating.

Cheese making is an ancient art, developed thousands of years ago. It was brought to North America by Europeans. It's done a bit differently now than it was in Josefina's time, and lucky for us, the necessary ingredients are easy to find.

The Montoya sisters take turns milking the goats. Then the milk is brought to the kitchen, where it is heated with a bit of cultured milk left over from the previous batch of cheese.

After the rennet is added, the milk is allowed to sit, until the curds (the solid bits of fat and protein) separate from the whey (the liquid).

Rennet is an enzyme that coagulates milk. In Josefina's time, it was obtained from the stomach lining of a young goat. When goats were butchered for meat, the stomachs were carefully cleaned and dried so the rennet could be used for making cheese.

Today, you can buy vegetable-sourced rennet that does not come from animals.

Then the curds are scooped into a straining cloth, and Josefina squeezes all the whey out of the curds until they're dry.

The cheese is pressed into small molds. Some of it is left to age and develop a richer flavor, and the rest is wrapped up and brought out to the fields for the laborers to eat with lunch.

Josefina always brings a bit of cheese when she and her sisters head into the hills to pick piñón nuts. She's carrying her lunch in a bag woven with wool produced by the sheep that live at the Montoya rancho. I made that as well as her little water canteen.

Recipe and directions are below the cut.

Before I get to the recipe (bear with me, this won't be long), I do want to verify that Josefina's Cookbook is legit and the cheese making method actually works. I first made it in 2006, and loved it so much that I moved on to more elaborate recipes and learned how to make mozzarella, feta, and a few other kinds of cheese! It's a lot of fun and very rewarding to master the art. So if you try this and enjoy it, you absolutely can turn this skill into a hobby of making cheese.

Thanks for reading my life story. Now on to the recipe.

INGREDIENTS

4 tablets of Junket rennet (buy this online if you can't find it at a grocery store)

2 teaspoons water

1/2 gallon goat's milk (not ultra-pasteurized)

3 tablespoons plain yogurt with live cultures (not low-fat or nonfat)

1/2 teaspoons salt

DIRECTIONS

Put the rennet tablets in the small bowl and crush them with the back of the small spoon. Add the water, stir to dissolve, and set aside.

Pour the milk into the large saucepan. Add the yogurt and salt, and stir to mix completely.

Clip the thermometer to the edge of the sauce- pan. The tip of the thermometer should not touch the bottom or sides of the saucepan.

Turn on the burner to medium-high to heat the milk mixture to about 90°, or "wrist warm"- warm, but still cool enough so you can stir it with your finger.

Turn off the heat and move the pan from the burner to a warm spot in your kitchen. Remove the thermometer and gently stir in the dissolved rennet and water.

Let the saucepan stand undisturbed for at least 1 hour so it can "set," or form a thick, stiff curd. This may take several hours longer if the room is cool.

As the milk sets, line the colander with 2 layers of dampened cheesecloth. Place the lined colander in the baking pan.

When the milk has turned into a custard-like curd, use the knife to cut the curd into 2-inch chunks. Use the slotted spoon to gently move the pieces into the colander to drain.

Let the cheese stand at room temperature for at least 4 hours so the whey can drain. Do not stir it, but from time to time tilt the colander or sieve and adjust the cheesecloth to help drain the whey. As the pan fills with whey, pour it out so the cheese is not standing in the whey.

When all the whey has drained, the cheese can be gently molded with your hands into a ball.

Serve the cheese immediately, or store it in the refrigerator for up to a week.

[rwby-encrusted-blog]

Ruby: Hmm~ Good morning Weiss- What're you eating?

Weiss: Cottage Cheese and yogurt.

Ruby: Like. Mixed together?

Weiss: Yes. Together. The yogurt adds a nice sweetness and thickens the whey, while the curds add texture and variance. It's quite nice, light, and simple.

Ruby: ... Huh.

[screamingay]

tried making clotted cream even though I only had ultra pasteurized cream and it.... kinda worked? definitely more whey than I wanted and that whey was very milky, and the cream itself didn't get quite as firm as I wanted, but I think it'll work just fine in any recipes I use it in, and I'm gonna see if separating the whey and curds and leaving them in the fridge a while might separate it a little more, maybe?? either way, I'm using the whey (more like buttermilk) for scones as soon as I get the dishes washed, and then hopefully I can also get the hot cocoa cookies done today that I've been wanting to try since literally february

[sentientcave]

Making milk cake since it's my birthday tomorrow (And I love Indian sweets) but we are really at one of the less appetizing stages rn

Mmmm curds n whey

[n30n-allavita]

Secrets of the Underground pt.5 - Muffet

“Little miss Muffet sat on her tuffet, eating her curds and whey”

…

“Along came a spider…who sat right beside her”

…..

S c a r I n g

M I s s

M u f f e t

A w a y

Context!!!

—————-

What a fun opening lol! Muffets turn for my series yippee!!! This was a crazy lighting piece to make. Not sure how I did it but I did.

Muffet - the royal scientist - once was surrounded by other spider monsters. Though slowly…a medicine Muffet had made using a touch of determination caused them to slowly disfigure…and become hive mind creations that lurk in her lab.

She tried to fix them….truly she did.

But with time came zero results. Though they have a sweet tooth that keeps them calm. She’s hidden them…and if you’re unfortunate enough….you just may see one.

-Tools used-

iPad

Procreate lineart pack, spray paint pack, color pencil pack

Halftones, noise, color aberration, bloom

Process

—————

Sketch

Line

Block

Lighting

Shading

Finishing touches✨

-Time taken-

8 hours….a long time that spanned across two other projects cuz I got bored halfway through this-

I hope you liked it!

[grootficguy]

just bought some curds and whey. gonna be a wild one in the Tuffet household this weekend.

[cakemoney]

i'm still only a little bit into the ending fight (for neverafter for those watching me watch at home) but i am like. the rational part of me understands that attacking the princesses' philosophical justifications (especially in the heat of battle where rational thought would be pretty impaired) is simply not going to be as effective at changing people's minds as an offer of hope that it doesn't have to be this way. that is in fact true in real life as well. but like. somebody needs to point out that the princesses are fundamentally no different than the stepmother or the fairies. all you are doing is deciding what's best for other people without asking them. all you are doing is lashing out from your own rage and trauma and the people who suffer the consequences will be innocents, and you don't care. like take two seconds and tell me why little miss muffet and her lonely curds and whey deserve to be and should be and must be wiped from existence, with no one to remember her or her town full of adults who have strictly nonsexual sleepovers. tell me why if the itsy bitsy spider decides to keep climbing up after being washed down again and again its entire life, you should be the one to decide that they don't get to try one more time. look me in the eye man. all you care about is yourself, because you were raised as royalty, and you believe you deserve better, and you believe you are better than everyone else and the world revolves around you, and you believe that your feelings and your pain and your suffering are more important than those of normal people, farmers, peasants, families throughout the realms who, despite having no name and no power and no book and no destiny, despite eking out miserable existences in constant downpours or under threat of being crushed by giants or being forced to use old moldy shoes left by giants as houses, still choose to keep living. do people stop falling in love because the times are bad? do children stop being born, growing up, making friends, making art, scraping their knees when they trip but then getting up again, because the skies are dark? none of their memories and joys, none of their stories and bonds, no matter how brief, are worth preservation? all of their lives are worth nothing because you said so? you wanna run that one by me again buddy