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textfromthelookout · 1 year

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Super is a horribly made cash grab. Something like the Dragon BallZ multiverse would've been a lot more interesting to watch.

Especially the early chapters were we see universes with diffrent "what-if's" like Friza taking over, Planet Vegeta still around, Cell or Buu winning, Goku being raised as sayin, introducing the games etc.

I especially hate how super ignores Vegeta's already established character development and makes him regress. Either they just didn't know how to write a Vegeta like that or simply didn't care.

And god Gohan got the worst treatment ever. I understand the man doesn't fight, it's not what he does and that's a great point to his character but not keeping up with his training especially after cell and buu? Is out of character. The man is smart and knows that a bigger threat can come in at any moment.

Just wanted to leave that, drink some water

Perfectly valid opinion! Nevertheless, I disagree with you, and you’ve given me an excuse to ramble on at length about Dragon Ball, so ramble on I shall.

Super is a horribly made cash grab.

I think you’re thinking of the Z movies (which, for the record, I like). A cash grab’s supposed to be something you make quickly just because you know it’ll sell, and while I’m no economist, I do know you have to follow appreciably current trends when you’re trying to make one. While you may be right, it’s hard for me to feel that something is a cash grab when there was a ten year dry spell between GT ending and anything important that was DB-related coming out—and it wasn’t even Super, it was a little festival special that a bunch of people don’t know about because it never came overseas. Battle of Gods didn’t drop until five years after that, after the first half of DBZ Kai had already wrapped up, and Super didn’t start properly until the second half of Kai finished two years later. You don’t spend seven years feeling out if people are still receptive to something after a ten-year hiatus if you’re trying to make money quickly, is all I’m saying.

Something like the Dragon BallZ multiverse would've been a lot more interesting to watch.

I’ve never read Multiverse so I leafed through the first 400-ish pages to see if I agreed with you, and I don’t. A common complaint about the Tournament of Power is that it’s the most dragged out 48 minutes in existence, and from the looks of it, Multiverse is like if Super was nothing but the Tournament of Power. To me, one of the best things about Dragon Ball is that it doesn’t have to be all high-stakes head-to-head all the time. You get things like the Orange Star High arc, or the filler episode where Piccolo and Goku have to get their driver’s licenses, or the one where Goku doesn’t quite have control over his ki for a day or so because he essentially shorted out the wiring fighting Hit (which is a cool fucking concept that I wish they had done more with). It’s just fun. It opens the door for questions that are more entertaining—and more importantly, more varied—than arguing until you’re blue in the face about who would win in a fight between X and Y.

Sure, I’ll give you that, Multiverse does knock that concept around a little. The problem is it doesn’t do much of anything with it. The setting is a character too, in its own way—arguably the most important one, since it’s the one that every other character has no choice but to interact with. You’re right, all of those what-ifs would be interesting—if they were set in the what-ifs.

Here, I’ll share one of my favorite what-ifs as an example to try and explain. What if, instead of being able to retreat back to his lab, Dr. Gero was destroyed along with 19 by Vegeta’s attack? There would be no reason to go check his lab out if the android threat is eliminated, so 17 and 18 would still be asleep. Cell would grow unhindered for 17 years, and when he hatches, he could simply go up the ladder and attain perfection without a fight. Goku wouldn’t have died at the end of the Cell Games. There would be no training in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber for anyone. Does Vegeta become an issue again, since his character arc stalls at the part where he’s reveling in his own power? If so, how does that resolve? How would the struggle against Cell play out if they had no warning at all that he even existed? What role would Gohan play in it—or Goten or Trunks, since they’d be old enough to be a factor? These questions and any number of others you could pose don’t even account for the fact that it entirely upsets the timeline—Buu arc would occur before Cell, if it occurs at all. Assuming it does, would they stand a chance in hell against Buu without the power they gained in Cell arc and the seven year gap? Could Cell somehow end up coming into conflict with Buu? In short—how does this change things?

Multiverse answers this with ‘who cares, where does it put you in the power-scaling?’ and that’s not compelling to me in the slightest.

I especially hate how super ignores Vegeta's already established character development and makes him regress. Either they just didn't know how to write a Vegeta like that or simply didn't care.

Define regress. If you’re referring to Vegeta retaining his determination to get stronger than Goku after the ‘you are number one’ speech, that’s. Pretty integral to his character, frankly. Just because he’s learned and accepted it’s not the end of the world if he isn’t stronger doesn’t mean he has to drop the competition entirely. I read it less as a set-in-stone declaration of Goku’s superiority, more like a concession of his own defeat. ‘You’re number one forever because you’re better than me’ vs ‘You win for now, but when the next fight rolls around, I’ll outdo you’, you feel what I’m getting at? He does show up to fight Goku in the tournament during the very end of Z, after all. My point is that it shows Vegeta’s worldview and perception of himself is more malleable now—and so, confines him far less.

As it turns out, that concept of ‘freedom’ is the direction Super chooses to develop him in, and I feel that it pairs very well with what he goes through in Z (spoilers incoming). In Z, Vegeta is restricted by The Way Things Are Supposed To Go. In Super, especially later on during Moro and Granolah, this has a natural continuation in how his past actions in the name of TWTASTG weigh on him in ways that hamper his growth. This has been one of his biggest stumbling blocks for forever—he thinks so goddamn much, he can’t get out of his own head.

His defense of the Namekians and Earth against Moro is motivated in part by Vegeta feeling obligated to right the balance, so to speak—and he says as much, even going so far as to ask Moori if he bears a grudge against him for his actions. He still considers himself a villain bound for hell. In effect, this idea that he has to atone for his sins via being the one to save the day (which essentially amounts to being stronger than Goku on some given day) has snuck in and made itself into the new Way Things Are Supposed To Go without him realizing it.

Beerus realizes, though. I couldn’t think of a way to eloquently get across what Beerus does for him short of copying down the dialogue wholesale, so fuck it, that’s what I’m gonna do, since not everyone has access to the official translation. (From ch 69)

BEERUS: How many planets have you Saiyans destroyed? VEGETA: ? Hard to say. Fighting was the only way of life for my people, so we had a way of racking up sin after sin. B: Sin, huh? V: However, it wasn’t until Freeza’s clan came along and began using us that the destruction and invasions became business as usual. B: You trying to lay all the blame for your wicked ways on Freeza and his people? V: Not in the least. In his pursuit for power, my father built his own kingdom atop countless deaths. Freeza’s clan taking control didn’t help, but the seeds of the Saiyans’ destruction were sown before that. B: So it was the Saiyans’ destiny to be wiped out, then? V: I’d say so. B: Hmph… Ridiculous. V: But never mind that. My people’s problems aren’t your concern. B: I’m saying it’s ridiculous! V: ! W-what? What do you mean? Weren’t you going to show me a technique used by Gods of Destruction?! What could that possibly have to do with the history of the Saiyans? B: Plenty. […] As long as doubt weighs down your soul, this power’ll never be yours to wield. V: D-doubt, you say? B: Your own crimes aside, you’re feeling guilty for the sins of all Saiyans. That’s awfully self-centered of you, mortal. Here’s a fun fact. The one who suggested that Freeza eliminate the Saiyans… was me. V: W… what? B: You still think it was destiny? You’re just gonna accept that? […] Everything those Saiyans did in the past… what’s it got to do with you now? As long as you’re trapped by the past, you’ll never manage to grow past this point. My mind’s always on destruction and nothing else. That’s why there’s no limit to my power. Listen. If you really want this power, you’re gonna have to destroy any stray thoughts and recreate yourself from scratch. Before creation comes destruction. Get it?

Yeah. He takes this and he intentionally divorces his efforts to get stronger from his tendency to dog Goku’s heels in leveling up. Ultra Instinct isn’t a power suited to him, so he gives it up instead of torturing himself over it and works on what eventually becomes Ultra Ego instead. Here’s the thing though. The biggest indicator of Vegeta’s growth to me is that he can’t tap fully into that power because he’s no longer callous and unfeeling, and he knows it. He identifies too much with Granolah to simply destroy him. And he tries to lead Granolah off the path that ruined him for so much of his life. That doesn’t sound anything like regression to me.

The way things stand with Goku and Vegeta right now, the next step seems to be adapting their Ultra forms to them personally, so I’m curious to see how Vegeta will bend that power to the person he is now.

You could be right, but no amount of kvetching is going to change what the writer wrote, so you may as well stretch your critical thinking legs and ask yourself why the writer thinks this is in character. Speaking from the perspective of a person who makes a hobby of examining these pieces and spackling them together into something cohesive (fanfiction. I write fanfiction, in case that was somehow unclear), this is the more fun option for me. I’m not saying it’s really That Deep (‘don’t put more thought into something than the creators did’, yak yak yadda yadda) or that my personal interpretation is correct and canon or anything, I just know that writers rarely write something a certain way without a reason.

Because you’re right, Gohan is a smart person. I don’t think he did stop training after Buu in the way you’re thinking of, for two reasons. First, he mentions at the end of Super Hero that he’s been practicing the Makankosappo in secret, and the Makankosappo took Piccolo presumably several years nonstop (between OGDB and Z) to make from scratch. Gohan may have prior knowledge to base his experimentation off of, but he has a lot less free time too, between his family and his father’s tendency to one-track-mind the things he’s passionate about—Videl says he’s been in his room working on his ant project for several days. So how long has Gohan been practicing it?

That’s rather theoretical though so, second, Gohan was ready for the Tournament of Power with 48 hours of training, which I don’t think would be possible if he wasn’t at least keeping himself physically in shape. Indeed, when Piccolo is training him (DBS episode 88), his problem is not with Gohan’s practical technique—it’s with his attitude. Freeza notices this and mentions it earlier in Resurrection F as well, that Gohan is going out of his way to leave the people he beats alive. Piccolo describes it as a failure to ‘close the deal’, in the sense that Gohan needs to be able to win in a way that leaves no room for a rematch or a sneak attack at the last second. This doesn’t necessarily mean killing, mind, especially since the Tournament of Power has a no-kill rule. What Gohan has let go to rust is his willingness to be ruthless enough to remove an obstacle that has to be removed. That, I think, is the true meaning of the ‘training’ that everyone in universe harps on him for. Gohan’s always been softhearted, after all.

I will concede that it is very stupid that he apparently doesn’t recognize Piccolo’s ki when by all rights he’s probably the person most familiar with it. I consider that ‘out of character’, in that I have no clever explanation for it, but given that it isn’t load-bearing so the story functions, I mainly shrug and ignore it. That’s the healthy thing to do.

completely forgot to say... I *hate* how bulma is now. Nothing to the bulma we saw in Z, even at her most vexing she was never like the one we see right now. Genuinely massacred her

Personally I would be angrier about Videl in your position, because boy does she just not exist in Super. More to the point, I don’t know exactly what you mean by this. Unless I’ve misremembered/misread something, Bulma is still doing what she’s done from day one. She’s still smart. She’s still willing to try using her charm to get what she wants. She still builds things that are plot-crucial (Goku Black arc couldn’t have happened without her replicating her own time machine! Which she couldn’t have done had Future Bulma not counted on her and left her own notes!) She still wants to get a look at every would-be destroyer of Earth du jour, even though it’s really not a good idea. If you’re referring to her occasional shallowness/bitchiness/pettiness, that never went away, you know. That’s a pretty big part of Bulma.

Just wanted to leave that, drink some water

Cute, but I’ve been on the internet too long to get upset when a random stranger boos something I enjoy. Thanks for the opportunity to write way too many words about it though! 2500 of them, in fact! I’d genuinely love to hear your thoughts on them.

#vegeta #son gohan #bulma briefs #dbz #dbs #dragon ball z #dragon ball super #text from the mod #long post #i'm not being sarcastic either tell me what you think #i swear i don't bite

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the-azure-archosaur · 4 months

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Just watched DBZ episode 95, aka the one where Goku goes Super Saiyan. Man, it's still so good. Especially after rewatching all of OG DB and Z over the past several months. It really hits different. Nozawa is on her a-game too. She's so good here. The deep guttural scream when the transformation finishes is iconic. Now and forever THE definitive voice of Goku.

Though I feel like the true feeling of the scene can be lost on people, especially those who only know it through the old funimation dub. The SSJ transformation isn't supposed to be a "fuck yeah" hero moment. It's sudden, chaotic, and dangerous. Our Goku, the kind boy that we watched grow into a man over 200+ episodes snaps; and it's scary. We've seen him angry before (i.e. Tambourine), but this is different. The music sounds like something out of a horror movie. Goku's movements are erratic and jerky, almost like he's fighting it, or his body can't contain it. When it finally bursts forth, his demeanor entirely changes. He even warns Gohan to get away while he still has some sense of reason. It's hard to imagine what's going through poor Gohan's head when he sees his father like this.

Even Freeza, who just moments ago was dropping the pretenses and had moved on to just offing everyone one by one, is taken aback and is frozen. There's a reason this is perhaps the most iconic scene in anime. Everything fundamentally changes after this. Both in, and out of universe.

#dragon ball #goku #super saiyan #dbz

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yamcha-thelonewolf · 10 months

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How would you feel if Toriyama made Yamcha a fighter again and was actually stronger this time? I'll always be thinking how when he smacked Beerus in the back he made a face. What if he wasn't taken just by surprise that he did it but by the power behind it?

Like what if Toriyama did Yamcha dirty and decided he's not strong unless he does not want to fight?

Good question. Yamcha is still a fighter, for me. He never really gave up, even though what DBS showed us seems to say otherwise. I can't accept the fact that he threw in the towel, that was never like him. Yamcha always shows to us, in his own way, that he still has a passion for martial arts. Get it? Martial arts. That thing that long ago in Dragon Ball was the leitmotif of the whole story.

However, I don't think Yamcha has really stopped believing in his potential. It is virtually impossible to do so after reaching such a power level that makes him literally one of the strongest human beings in the world. Plus if we consider the fact that, between him, Tien and Kuririn, Yamcha's features are the most "normal" (he's got a nose and only two eyes) we can also safely say that Yamcha is the strongest human being in the world.

Okay, this is a bit of nonsense that I sometimes like to bring up.... But think about it, it might as well be so if we have to be really precise.

«JUST LOOK HOW SERIOUS HUMAN MY FACE IS!»

So, I would just be happy if his warrior attitude, that was never really buried, was put on display again. Even a little sentence, a hint, a tiny scene where he is seen fighting or training with one of his friends... That would be enough for me.

Yeah, something like that... Dragon Buddies.

For example, I am so glad that he made his return in Moro Arc as a Z-Fighter; I would like to see the animated version of his moment. Unfortunately, I think this is not the beginning of his rebirth. I have always thought that Yamcha's only enemy is Yamcha himself, and partly so, but the truth is that the real villain of his story is Akira Toriyama himself. It pains me to admit it, but it is so. I can't understand why he is pandering so much to the idiocy of the DB fandom making fun of Yamcha.

Yamcha laughing at memes about Yamcha knowing that he could destroy everyone with one finger.

The hell, even in Majin Buu Arc he was amazing. All right, I know, they're fillers, but you want me to be honest? The fillers took better care of him than the canon episodes and the manga. I mean, at the beginning he was presented to us as a 40-year-old man who had now given up martial arts for good, wearing a banana yellow suit, expensive and sadly unsuitable for battles. He just doesn't seem to want to hear about it. But then, after several episodes of him goofing off or being a fanboy in the stands, like everyone else Yamcha dies, and it is in the afterlife that his will to fight is reawakened after so long. As it was with King Kai before. For those who have followed him from the beginning of Dragon Ball, to be able to see Yamcha again happy, excited and strong, with his uniform on like the old days, is a joy to behold.

Relative joy.

Guys, I can't accept the fact that Yamcha has to be dead to feel even more alive, or even worse that his existence depends only on fillers. Yes, I know, it's still better than nothing, though...

Another good job was also done by the OVA Dragon Ball: The Return of Son Goku and Friends!, probably the last work that remembers that Yamcha also exists and especially treats him as a very valuable fighter. I'll talk about it.

This moment is still one of my favorite. It is one of the most badass things about Yamcha, plus it reminds me so much of a scene where Tarzan does the same...

Look! On one side we have the ape man (no, not a saiyan), on the other side the wolf man... Damn, I love it! Well, maybe I'm digressing, but it is curious to notice how the act of undressing is cathartic for both characters. They both strip off a garment that does not really belong to them and wildly bring out their true nature, their animal instincts, but most of all their desire to protect those they love. That's Yamcha. After all, who says Yamcha has to save the world to redeem himself as a character? He can also do so by protecting someone. That is something he can do very well, and I will prove it to you. Anyway, I sincerely hope that his role in the world of Dragon Ball will also be recognized in DBS. I also hope he can use again even his sword, but unfortunately he became a meme and, apart from the Moro Arc, we only saw him slaughtered and humiliated even by his own friends. This is the saddest thing that could have happened, also because in OG Dragon Ball it would NEVER have happened. There is no more demeaning thing than seeing Goku completely ignore one of his close friends, one of the first, and treat him as if he were worth less than zero. Seriously... WTF?! The Goku I love would never have done that.

Alright, that's the real Goku! Thank you!

I mean, maybe Goku wouldn't have invited him to the Tournament anyway, but at least he would have stopped in front of him to say a few comfortably words. As he once did.

Because, you know, that's what you do with friends and those who have been there for you in the good and in the worst of times. Let us remember that Yamcha took care of Goku together with Chichi when the virus struck him in the heart...

Well, I try hard to think that this is all a joke, though I doubt it. I strive to think that the whole attitude that the characters have had in DBS toward Yamcha is just the result of a studied plan to piss him off and spur him to undress again and howl like he used to. But... I know it's not.

Therefore, even though Moro Arc slightly brought our Z warrior back to the forefront and confirmed that Yamcha is still very strong, I still do not consider myself satisfied. What I would like more than anything else is just a confrontation between him and the protagonist, Goku, in which the saiyan helps him believe in himself again. And if it is not Goku, someone else is fine as long as Yamcha is reconsidered with dignity.

I don't think I'm asking for that much. Goku has helped so many people, dinosaurs, mice, monkeys, strangers he has met only once in his life, even bad guys... So why not help the first character who consciously believed in his abilities?

...Guess I have started a new topic. I will definitely talk about the relationship between Yamcha and Goku as soon as I can. Being the main character, a positive assessment of Yamcha by Goku could change the current idea of this character and make him much stronger as a result. I mean, Goku is the Mr. Satan of the real world. What he says is the truth, so it is only up to him to make sure that Yamcha can come back stronger than before.

Thanks for asking! 💕

#yamcha #goku #dragon ball #dbz #dbs #dragon ball z #dragon ball super #akira toriyama #justice for yamcha #make yamcha great again #chichi #kuririn #tenshinhan #topic 5

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julie-finlay · 2 years

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Finlay Friday

12x16: "CSI Unplugged", script extracts

#CSI #CSI CBS #Julie Finlay #Finlay Friday #DB Russell #Frussell #Jim Brass #CSI Unplugged #my gifs #script extracts #there wasn't too much fun stuff in this script #4th down is barely even an “extract” but LOOK AT HER FACE #the ending is super cute #especially as Finn spends the whole episode telling Russell the kid is probably dead like 20 times lmao #okay that's not fair I went back and counted it's only 3 times :')

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danthepest · 2 years

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Every now and then I think on how Piccolo taking Nappa’s blast for Gohan was the ultimate and most selfless sacrifice in the entire DB series.

He didn’t know about the Namekian dragon balls. He knew that Earth’s dragon balls would be gone if he died. For all he knew there was no coming back for him. He didn’t know he’d get to keep his body in the afterlife. Worst case scenario he’d end up in hell and have his soul erased. There was literally no we’ll-fix-this-later option for him. And he still jumped in to save the kid.

Everyone talks about Vegeta’s sacrifice in the Boo arc but in my mind it pales compared to Piccolo’s. Especially since Piccolo didn’t pull a dumb Majin episode beforehand.

#dragon ball #dragon ball z #dbz #db #piccolo #vegeta #nappa #son gohan #gohan #saiyan saga #saiyan arc #buu saga #buu arc #boo saga #boo arc

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howlingday · 23 days

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My idea for a potential DB! #11

2024 jun 26, 27, jul 4, aug 22, 24

Tenya Iida vs. A-Train

MASTER LIST

Chaos VS Kyogre (Sonic the Hedgehog VS Pokémon) | DEATH BATTLE!

Their rains of destruction will flood and drown the world!

THUMBNAIL

FIGHTER 1: Chaos, the mutated God of Destruction of alien descent from Sonic Adventure.

FIGHTER 2: Kyogre, Pokémon’s legendary sea expander of primordial origin.

Wiz: Water is the substance that fuels all life, the sea is where life originated, and rain brings crop growth and rejuvenation.

*insert clips of the sea, flooding, and torrential downpours*

Boomstick: But too much H2O will leave you drowning or flooded, especially when it comes to these two ancient gods of rain and sea. He’s Wiz and I’m Boomstick.

Wiz: And it's our job to analyze their weapons, armor, and skills to find out who would win... a Death Battle.

PREFACE (What to know):

For Chaos, I’ll primarily be looking at Sonic Adventure and Generations for references to power, and I’ll look at Sonic Battle for moveset. For Kyogre, the games are the primary source of Pokémon canon, so I won’t look for any anime or manga adaptation. The games I’ll be looking at for Kyogre are Pokémon Sapphire and Alpha Sapphire.

This MU also has some popularity. Brandon Yates gave us Primal Chaos (both an instrumental and vocal version), Sky / TehGM gave us Chaos Primal, and we even had a DEATH BATTLE cast episode related to this MU. You can find other MUs for these two (I noticed Chaos vs. Zygarde a few times), but this is perhaps the best MU for both due to their icons and surface-level similarities.

I will not be treating this as a Pokémon battle, so we don’t just get damage that correspond to “It’s not very effective…” attacks, and Kyogre will be using the moveset from when you encounter it during the climax of Alpha Sapphire as Primal Kyogre: Body Slam, Aqua Ring, Ice Beam, and Origin Pulse, as seen here, but I’ll still make reference to other moves because Kyogre’s thing is manipulation over rain and water.

I also looked at the VS. Battle Wiki pages for both characters, but I decided not to use their stats, only their abilities.

WHY:

Connections (What do they have in common):

1. Both are ancient water beings who were reawakened by the main antagonist of their debut games (Dr. Eggman and Archie of Team Aqua) for their big plan to change the world (Dr. Eggman wanted to conquer the world by making Chaos subservient to him and Team Aqua wanted to expand the oceans to make more room for aquatic Pokémon)

2. Both have reputations for being destructive god-like creatures with potentially world-ending power. Chaos is known for wiping out the Echidna tribe, flooding Station Square, and being one of Infinite’s “4 Horsemen”. Kyogre is known to have expanded the oceans via torrential downpour and tidal waves. At their most powerful, Perfect Chaos and Primal Kyogre both had big potential to, again, destroy the world. Perfect Chaos handedly flooded Station Square and Primal Kyogre could have drowned not just the Hoenn Region, but the entire world via rain. Their final forms even look like giant Leviathans from the Bible.

3. Both draw power from ancient stones that allow them to transform into their strongest states. Chaos becomes Perfect Chaos with the Chaos Emeralds and Kyogre becomes Primal Kyogre with the Blue Orb. Said rocks were used by the aforementioned main antagonists, but our rain gods only ended up turning against the villains.

4. Both also have connections to ancient peoples, Chaos being the descendant of the extraterrestrial Ancients that brought the Chaos Emeralds with them and Kyogre is connected to the Draconid people that prayed for Raquaza to stop the fight between the Primordials.

5. There is a possible thematic element of peace vs chaos. Ironically, Chaos could represent peace as Chaos is the first known guardian of the Chaos Emeralds and watched over a Chao colony in ancient times. However, 3,000 years before the events of Sonic Adventure, an attack from the Knuckles Clan led to Chaos being consumed by a fury that threatened to destroy the world, but was sealed in the Master Emerald. After the events of Sonic Adventure, Chaos has only re-emerged in times of great crisis. Kyogre would represent chaos and destruction to all of its lore regarding its legendary fight for dominance against Groudon.

Personal reasons (Why I want this battle/like this MU):

We could use a good Sonic vs Pokémon MU. Mewtwo vs. Shadow deserves to be redone with love, so in the meantime, here’s my idea.

Kyogre is also one of my all-time favorite Pokémon ever since I first played Alpha Sapphire in 2014. Chaos, while not one of my favorite Sonic characters, is intriguing to me, mainly because of its reputation from Sonic Adventure and its lore from Frontiers. Also, I liked the idea of being able to play as Chaos in Sonic Battle and I liked how Chaos looks in the Sonic Smackdown videos.

Imagine Chaos as a Pokémon. I imagine it starting as a Chaos Chao, but its first evolution would be a lot like iconic Chaos 0 and the Ancient Warrior. The limbs and body are now water and fluid. The cutesy features of the Chao start to disappear, with some scales and the brain starting to protrude from the body, but there is also a core in the chest of the beast. The eyes become a mix between the yellow of Chaos Chao and the emerald green of Perfect Chaos. The final stage would be a giant kaiju-based monster like Tyranitar, Archaludon, Groudon, etc. Scales, the monster-like eyes, the brain now exposed, and scary power with a busted ability that lets it set up beneficial weather and boost its own attacking power or speed, almost like a two-in-one Drizzle and Swift Swim. The line would have a pure Water typing until the final evolution, which would be either part Psychic or Dragon due to using the power of the Chaos Emeralds, which their abilities to affect space and time and even powerful god-like beings (Solaris, Dark Gaia, Time Eater, Nega Mother Wisp, THE END), are affected by the thoughts and emotions of the wielder, can be recharged by the planet, and are artifacts of alien origin. Either that, or Chaos would be tapping into its alien ancestry. The line would have poor speed, but its HP, Attack, and Defenses are great. Maybe it would have a stat total between 400 and 500. Maybe it could even be a pseudo legendary/member of the 600 club for a new region.

Maybe I’ll actually draw this Fakemon someday.

August 22, 2024

King Bowser VS Dr. Eggman is confirmed and is currently a work in progress. I want this to be a celebration of not only DB!’s return, but also of the eventual release of future Hard-Boiled Fury.

Art:

THE FIGHT:

Art and animation:

It’ll be in 2D sprites. Let’s count: Sonic has had 12 fights with 11 of them being done with sprites, and Pokémon has had 6 fights with 4 of them being done in sprites. Sonic’s only none-sprite fight was the show’s 100th episode, done with hand-drawn animation, and the none-sprite Pokémon fights were done in 3D, which were the season 2 finale and the “milestone episode” 125. The fight will most likely be in 2D unless it's a season finale or milestone episode like 250 and not a pseudo milestone episode like 125 or 175.

You can find Chaos sprites, though there may be some struggling with some Kyogre sprites, so it’s likely that some custom sprites will need to be made.

Or maybe it’ll be in 3D for ease of movement for Kyogre, but I don’t know where you can find the models for it. There already is a model for Chaos if Sonic Smackdown is any indication.

Possible setup:

Groudon and Kyogre have emerged from the Seafloor Cavern and Cave of Origin. They have once again engaged in their eternal endeavor. There may be rain, but the sun is still shining.

Groudon uses Precipice Blades, but before Groudon can fully execute the attack, the land on which it stood falls and Groudon is seemingly pulled down into the water by an invisible force. The rain clouds start to quickly block out the sun. Kyogre is also struggling to control the waves as they are going against its command, until a fist made of water deals an uppercut to Kyogre’s jaw, staggering Kyogre a bit. The fist of water lands meters in front of the Sea Basin Pokémon, and it morphs into Chaos 0.

It is a time of crisis, and so Chaos has re-emerged.

Kyogre lets out its battle cry as if it were a Pokémon battle.

FIGHT!

1. Chaos enlarges a fist and strikes Kyogre and starts to unleash a combo, ending it with slamming both arms and fists into Kyogre, submerging it. Kyogre responds by spins around and strikes Chaos, like if it used Aqua Tail. Chaos retaliates by plunging his arm into the ground, causing a fountain to spring up and knock back his opponent (Upper Chaos).

2. A Chaos Emerald quickly descends from the sky, and Chaos turns into Chaos 1. Before Kyogre could move, Chaos repeatedly starts lobbing water at Kyogre (Chaos Shot). Kyogre gets hit, but then uses a Body Slam, crashing into Chaos.Chaos then uses Chaos Strike, a ripple of Chaos Energy hitting and dazing Kyogre long enough for Chaos to dive into the water, shoot out of it like a crazed angel fish, and stretch his arms down and lands a powerful Air Chaos Strike. Kyogre, while hurt, simply launches water under immense pressure a la Hydro Pump and damages Chaos.

3. Yet another Chaos Emerald descends, and Chaos 1 becomes Chaos 2. Kyogre charges at Chaos like if it used Double Edge, but Chaos simply becomes a puddle, emerges by Kyogre’s tail, grabs it, and swings Kyogre away with a lot of effort. Kyogre enters the water again but with little trouble. Kyogre then cools the air around Chaos in a poor attempt at using Sheer Cold, momentarily freezing and greatly damaging Chaos, but then another Emerald descends.

4. Chaos 2 becomes Chaos 3 when another Chaos Emerald descends and breaks free from the ice. Chaos jumps into the air and then strikes the Sea Basin Pokémon with a punch on the way down, inflicting a large shock that triggers an earthquake, damaging and dazing Kyogre (Chaos Impact). As Chaos then starts striking Kyogre up close again with powerful aquatic arms, Kyogre charges at Kyogre again, but as Chaos starts to hold Kyogre off, Kyogre uses Ice Beam and starts to freeze and break off Chaos’ limbs.

5. Chaos 3 becomes Chaos 4. With greater speed, Chaos starts to emerge out of the water in an arc and splash down around Kyogre, and before Kyogre could use Ice Beam again, water in the shape of tendrils suddenly forms upwards and starts bashing Kyogre. Chaos is using Chaos Splash, but Kyogre makes the water around it launch upward like if it used Water Spout, launching Chaos 4 skyward and Kygroe bounces Chaos once like a dolphin or sea lion bouncing a beach ball and then bounces Chaos away.

6. Chaos 4 absorbs two more Chaos Emeralds and turns into Chaos 6 who then turns into a giant puddle, escaping another Ice Beam and charges at Kyogre with a giant version of Chaos Dolphin, but Kyogre uses Aqua ring, and Chaos then merges with the Aqua Ring and is launched out towards whence he came, and Kyogre then launches origin pulse to launch Chaos 6 further away. Chaos then escapes back into the water and uses Chaos Heal. Kyogre continues healing with Aqua Ring.

7. The rain is pouring down, but neither beast is dead. They have their ancient stones in possession, and so draw power from them and from nature itself. With the final Chaos Emerald descending into the ocean, Chaos becomes Perfect Chaos, erupting out of the water, and with the Blue Orb, Kyogre becomes Primal Kyogre. We see the world now almost fully flooded. The rain is now pouring down furiously, and the two gods roared at each other.

8. P. Chaos launches an energy projectile, but P. Kyogre moves out of the way and strikes with an Ice Beam, severely damaging P. Chaos. As Kyogre moves around the battlefield, Chaos then lifts up water tornadoes, preventing Kyogre from moving. Chaos then bites down on Kyogre, and with one swift motion of the neck, throws Kyogre across from him.

9. Chaos wins by using power and terrain control. Perfect Chaos causes a whirlpool and then a water spout to launch Primal Kyogre skyward. As Kyogre reorients itself, it starts to use Origin Pulse. However, Perfect Chaos unleashes a faster Breath Attack and Tentacle Attack. Effectively juggling the Sea Basin Pokémon until Chaos can use Chaos Bind, freezing the air and Kyogre. Perfect Chaos then catches Kyogre in its open jaws and splits the legendary leviathan in two, the giant bloody body falling into the water. Victorious, Perfect Chaos releases a perfect roar of triumph as the rain clouds start dissipating, and rays of light start piercing down.

10. Kyogre wins by exploiting Chaos’ weaknesses. Primal Kyogre uses Ice Beam on Perfect Chaos, reducing its mobility. Chaos opens its mouth to launch a super charged laser, but Ice Beam has frozen it, and by using Ice Beam once more, but this time, on the exposed brain, Chaos is effectively done. Kyogre charges one more Origin Pulse and shatters the frozen leviathan. The clouds are now pouring waterfalls, and the sky is fully dark save for the lightning. Kyogre then gives a primal scream of victory.

11. The victor doesn’t celebrate for long because a giant green snake with ephemeral, golden, and glowing tendrils as long as its body protruding from its lower jaw descends from the sky and unleashes its own war cry. The aquatic adversary responds in kind, and another battle for the Hoenn region and the world begins.

12. KO!

RESULT:

Strengths and weaknesses:

Chaos:

+ Perfect Chaos is powered by all 7 Chaos Emeralds, which could move pieces of Sonic’s world and power planet-destroying weapons. Perfect Chaos is more powerful.

+ The better fighter up close.

+ Several Chaos forms have hydrokinesis. Perfect Chaos can even create and control water tornadoes and entire floods, thus having terrain control in the ocean, lakes or sea in which Chaos fights.

+ Chaos 0 can cause status effects. Chaos 0 can use Chaos Bind and freeze his opponent, and so has the faster freezing option and can also use Chaos Strike, which can disorient the opponent (basically casting confusion).

+ Chaos, at least Perfect Chaos, can change his shape into liquid, “and if dissipated, can reconstitute himself again.”

= Comparable healing. Chaos needs to stand still when using Chaos Heal while Aqua Ring is passive, but Aqua Ring doesn’t heal as fast or as effectively as Chaos Heal and will eventually wear off.

= At their strongest, both have similar flooding power. Tikal said that Chaos could eventually destroy the world and Steven said that if Kyogre’s rain/reign doesn’t stop, then the whole world will drown, not just Hoenn. Chaos may have an advantage as Tikal said that Chaos has destroyed the world before.

- The brain on Perfect Chaos is a highly exposed weak point.

- Cannot take advantage of Kyogre’s weaknesses of electricity or sapping plants.

- Slower regardless of form

- Lacks a meaningfully powerful moveset

- It is told to us that Perfect Chaos is powered by the negative energy of the Chaos Emeralds, and it is implied that this negative energy is not as powerful as positive energy, which is what is used by the Super Forms. If this is true, then it’s a matter of how much more weaker negative chaos energy is compared to its positive form. If it’s a lot, then Chaos runs the risk of being weaker than Kyogre. If it’s minimal, then Chaos remains the stronger combatant.

Kyogre:

+ Kyogre produces rain that powers up its own attacks.

+ Ironically the more agile combatant.

+ Origin Pulse and Ice Beam offer better ranged attacks.

+ Ice Beam can freeze Chaos, and Chaos has been damaged in lesser forms by being frozen.

+ If given access to moves like Thunder and Sheer Cold, then Kyogre has instant win attacks. Sheer Cold is stated to attack “with a blast of absolute-zero cold”. Thunder (which is more appropriately named as “かみなり / Lightning” in Japanese) never misses in the rain, and is described as “A wicked thunderbolt is dropped on the target to inflict damage. This may also leave the target with paralysis.” Again, this is a conditional advantage that isn’t fully common.

+ Moves like Calm Mind increase Kyogre’s resistance to energy attacks and projectiles (Special Defense) while augmenting its own energy attacks/projectile attacks (Special Attack)

= Comparable healing. Chaos needs to stand still when using Chaos Heal while Aqua Ring is passive, but Aqua Ring doesn’t heal as fast or as effectively as Chaos Heal and will eventually wear off.

- Limited moveset that doesn’t always take advantage of Chaos’ weakness and can be exhausted. (Power Points, aka PP)

- Kyogre doesn’t learn Thunder naturally and doesn’t always have access to Sheer Cold.

- Ice Beam only has a chance to freeze, compared to Chaos Bind which always freezes.

Ending puns:

"Kyogre couldn’t handle all this destruction and Chaos."

"Kyogre truly did rain on Chaos' parade."

MUSIC:

Art by me. (:

Name: Raining Chaos

The name makes reference to Kyogre’s rain abilities and to Chaos directly by name. I wanted to include “Alpha” in the name to make reference to “Alpha Sapphire”, but I couldn’t think of anything. I also did not want to include “Primordial”, “Primal”, or “Origin” because most VS scores for this fight have titles referring to the ancient nature of both fighters. It will seem hypocritical considering what I’m going to do with the sound, though.

Art: The cover shows a Chaos Emerald with both the beautiful sapphire shade and alpha symbol of the Blue Orb. From it Perfect Chaos’ tentacles are emerging from under, and from above, there is a blast of Origin Pulse. If there is a background to the image like in Hearts of Light, Chaos Unraveled, and Thunder Shroud, then it will be the flooded Station Square or the flooded world

Sound: There’s really only two songs that need to be referenced: Open Your Heart and the Vs. Groudon and Kyogre music. Just use Open Your Heart’s guitars and the Kyogre and Groudon battle music’s bells and horns. I specifically think Yates should be the one to make the battle track since, as previously mentioned, gave us “Primal Chaos”.

The song starts with the iconic bells of the fight from Groudon and Kyogre with the sounds of distortion of the Primal Reversion like this mashup here. As the bells fade out, we get the starting guitars from Open Your Heart. While the sound is primarily Open Your Heart, every now and then, the guitar fades for a bit and the bells play again with Hoenn’s iconic horns in the GBA sound like Vs. Primal Kyogre & Groudon, foreshadowing the eventual primal reversion.

FINAL THOUGHTS AND WORDS:

I like the idea of Chaos winning only to have to take Kyogre’s place in the fight against Groudon and Rayquaza. By embracing the wish to destroy, Chaos only perpetuates ancient conflict and becomes a monster. Rayquaza then becomes almost a reflection of who Chaos was: a figure considered divine with legendary power that reappears when there is great conflict that threatens the world, but will become aggressive when a threat comes near.

I had to do a lot of research into Chaos’ abilities, so I hope I did a good job of portraying them alongside Kyogre’s fearsome power. I wanted to give them both respect since both are more or less gods of water, rain, and sea.

August 22, 2024:

I wanted this to be my release for June and have the next episode be for July. Obviously, that didn’t happen. DB! has since announced their return with their next episode airing October of this year. During the summer, I was struggling with my life and career choice and then my classes resumed, which is why I haven’t continued with this for almost two months.

I also had an idea of drawing the cover art for the music. After I drew my “Raining Chaos”, I decided to resume writing this for a little bit, but then I started writing more, and I thought to myself that I can get this done before my next class. Maybe I’ll make a more well done version of my drawing, but it won’t be donde digitally like all DB! track art since I have neither the tools or knowledge to draw digitally.

When the two beasts fully transform into their Leviathan forms and roar, we get an epic Crush 40-style solo like what Yates did in Primal Chaos. It’s just pure glorious guitar from there on out. The song ends similarly to Open Your Heart but with the bells from the start of the song fading out.

IDEAS THAT I HAD:

1. Kyogre vs Chaos 0 - 6, Perfect Chaos vs Primal Kyogre.

2. We see the world drowning and being flooded. Maybe the Draconids pray for Rayquaza and Tikal is praying for Chaos to find peace

3. When reaching the final transformation, they let out a titanic roar.

4. Chaos trying to attack Kyogre with Aqua Ring active, causing Chaos to be molded into the Aqua Ring and launched away.

5. Include references to Noah’s Ark and the Leviathan of Biblical fame in the analysis.

6. Chaos hearing Tikal’s prayer, remembering the Chao, and winning by embracing positive chaos energy

THANK YOU AND I HOPE YOU ENJOYED THIS!

NEXT TIME…!

After the A-Train/Ingenium fiasco, Vought has come under intense scrutiny and UA is losing popularity for endangering one of their students and for associating with a company that employed a Nazi like Stormfront and a questionable character in A-Train. Homelander has taken it upon himself to “fix” the problem, and while UA may have given a press conference to address the issue, Homelander, the charismatic devil that he is, started a slander campaign against the threat of “Quirkies”.

In UA, the students have left as the school day just ended. All Might is in his normal form, taking down anti-UA propaganda that people have stuck to the school protective wall as well as some anti-Vought propaganda after a long day of teaching and trying to calm down protestors outside the school making noise that were shouting that word spouted by that fellow hero, a blonde American whom All Might initially thought well of. His press conference called to action the… More unpleasant elements of society. All Might hasn’t even changed out of his costume. and as he enters his office to grade papers, he hears a voice coming from within it.

“Ah, Toshinori. Just the man I’m looking for.”

That voice… All Might was hoping not to have to face the man in front of him. Toshinor turns on the light and behind his desk with his legs on the table sits a middle-aged man wearing a navy blue suit, red boots, and an American flag for a cape. Homelander had snuck past UA’s defenses and gotten in. He must have been waiting for him. He was… Looking at a picture of young Midoriya and Class 1-A.

“Homelander. Why are you here?” Toshinori was hoping that the other teachers, and especially the students, weren’t here.

After a chuckle, John replies: “That f*cking little UA goody two shoes and that moron A-Train ruined everything at Vought and are making Supes look bad, and then that red birdbrain Hawks tried to leak some confidential info. So, I decided to come here and fix the problem at its core. Step 1? Remove Quirkies, and that starts with UA and you.” Homelander puts down the picture.

“Young Ingenium is a great hero! He may have faltered, but he lifts those around him and encourages them to be their best selves! I’m sorry to hear about A-Train, but he murdered an innocent civilian, and then you decided to make Heroes with Quirks look like villains.”

“See, here’s the thing, Toshi.” Homelander sighs and he stands up, approaching the skeletal figure. “We’re heroes, right? We gotta look for the public. I. Gotta look good.”

“After that press conference you did, I can’t consider you a hero. Your words are putting my students and colleagues at risk.”

“To the people, I am a hero, the GREATEST hero. I’m saving them from this plague, your genetic diseases of superpowers that make the majority of you Japanese not even Supes. A-Train and Ingenium may have brought bad press, but it’s nothing uncontrollable, and Hawks wasn’t able to get anything. So don’t stand in my way, Toshinori. I’m a real hero, and I will save everyone from you Quirkies, and if you don’t…”

Homelander’s eyes start to glow red and he smiles evilly.

“Well, let’s just say that you’ll have a hard time being either a hero or a teacher.”

Toshinori’s cheeks then stretch downward with his lips, steam exiting his lean body that is now starting to fill in his costume. The lanky man who was more bone than skin now stood almost two feet above Homelander, with his costume now stretched by his amazingly dense muscles, and his two long strands of hair, droopy and miserable now stand proud and curved like rabbit ears. Where there was Toshinori Yagi now stands All Might, a sharp blue gleam in his eyes.

Class 1-A may be able to handle Homelander, they certainly could handle almost everything, but in front of All Might stood a villain masquerading as a hero, and it was his duty to stop villains. “As the Symbol of Hope and as their teacher, I’m warning you: Don’t you dare hurt my students.”

FIGHT!

All Might VS Homelander (My Hero Academia VS The Boys)

--------------------------------------------------

Whale, whale, whale,

Look what washed up on our shore. Another Death Battle idea? Holy mackerel! As fishy as it may seem, I smell blood in the water and we're gonna need a bigger post.

...Tuna.

Anyway, great work on another awesome idea! I can't say I've played Sonic Adventure, though 2 was definitely the best Sonic game ever. I did watch Sonic X, which briefly touched on the story of Sonic Adventure, though. I've played A LOT of Pokémon Sapphire, too, so I am very aware of Kyogre and their legendary status.

To be honest, the Chaos Emeralds do feel a bit deus ex machina, but it's not like it'd be the first time Death Battle pulled this kind of thing. The battle also feels very strange, since it's a physical fighter VS what's basically a whale ocean wizard, and Kyogre's only response to being punch in the face is either "flipper whack" or water/ice beam. Still, it was a fun fight to read, especially with Primal Chaos playing (Non-Vocal, because the lyrics can be very distracting).

Overall, great work!

As for this next fight, I'm feeling a little bit antsy. See, based on the dialogue, this is post-injury All Might, which means Homelander is going to be fighting against someone not in his prime. Also, that line about him purging the world of "Quirkies" got my blood boiling, so awesome work on that! Then again, maybe using this All Might is giving Homelander the Handicap~?

If I were to give this next battle track a name, I'd say...

PLUS BETTER

#submission #death battle #idea #chaos sonic #Sonic adventure #perfect chaos #kyogre #primal kyogre #blue orb #pokemon sapphire #pokemon alpha sapphire #hoenn region #chaos emeralds #raining chaos #sonic the hedgehog #chaos #Pokémon #my thoughts #my submissions

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