#got 8x04 analysis

[what-do-1000-swords-look-like]

Omg ok so much good stuff to discuss in your amazing response!! First off, thank you for the analysis, you picked up on so many subtle implications I missed. 1. What happens when they demand you press your claim and take what is mine?” Confirmation: Dany always knew Jon wasn’t in love with her. If she thought he was, she wouldn’t have thought this. And suspected/knew he may be manipulating her. 2. I think she kinda began looking for a reason to justify executing Jon. As you point out she

Hey, Anon! Thank you so much for the compliment!!! =D You are truly too kind. =) And omg, I am so sorry this took me so long to reply to!!!

1) Oooo, yes, I think Dany suspected it all along tbh, but I think she hoped that a) her manipulation would supersede his & b) he would love her the way she wanted him to and that love (and belief/devotion) would come first. I think that's really why she had such an issue with Sansa rather than Arya or Bran (besides the obvious love people had for Sansa in the North). Not only was Jon not willing to "hurt" his family for her, especially Sansa, but also it was obvious he still valued Sansa's opinion (that she could see to an extent) and was a rival for him (I'm not even talking romantically at this point, though that's obviously still very much a thing as well with the whole love triangle).

I have this whole meta on how Jon and Sansa were also two sides of the same coin (I swear, I will get around to finishing these metas sometime soon, I promise lol) and Sansa was very much a threat to Dany but not only because of her being a Queen the people would love or because she didn't want Dany on the IT or because she wouldn't bend the knee or because she loved Jon as well. I truly believe Sansa represented Jon for Dany in a way, the part of him that couldn't be tamed or controlled or manipulated. She was his Stark side, the side Dany very much wanted to crush and dominate, and get under her rule. Jon and Sansa have way too many parallels that not only complement one another but also show had they joined forces/come together as one, that was the power couple that would have been difficult to defeat, dragons or no dragons. And it's only begun to be hinted at in 6x09.

So it's no surprise to me that Bryan Cogman (who seemed to have a pretty good grasp on Sansa's character and her true motives) wrote that line into the scene between her and Dany in 8x02. "Tell me, who manipulated whom?" This line not only confirms that Dany knew that Jon was manipulating her but she is actually using Sansa's very tactic that she used with Jon in 6x04 to get him to listen, that Jon has been using with Dany herself and Dany has been using with him (once she learned it from Jon; she hugs Jorah at their reunion in 7x05 but later on in the episode puts her hands in his when saying goodbye to him; grabbing Jon's hand in 8x04 while "begging" him):

And Sansa knows what's happening, what Dany is trying to accomplish here. Which is exactly why once Dany pulls her hand away, Sansa waits until Dany is focused on the Maester and then pulls her hands away, sitting upright. And in this moment, Sansa is currently Lady of Winterfell, which is one notch under Warden of the North (but the same positions Cat and Ned were in until Ned became Hand), but before Dany showed up she was Regent (in Jon's absence, even after he bent the knee, she still ran things until he and Dany arrived). Not only is it all connected, but this confirms that Dany knows she's being manipulated by Jon but she loves him (and wants to dominate him/the North), and she is very familiar with manipulation herself and utilizes it often.

And she has quite a bit before this moment, from the Unsullied and slaves in Mereen to Missandei to Tyrion to Jorah to Jon. And later on, she even manipulates Grey Worm (in 8x05). Sorry, I got kind of carried away here lol but I mean to say I completely agree with your point!

And absolutely, completely agreed! Dany never trusted Jon, not completely. I think she started to because she expected him to fall in line with the rest. I think her guard even started to come down slightly after she has that conversation with Tyrion where the latter suggests Jon is in love with her. Some might think she softened to him because she didn't want him to leave, and then tries flirting with him, but that's not the case. It's only after Tyrion says this and we see her go to rescue Jon and Co and she sees Jon's wound, that we see her then soften towards him. So I think you're 100% right, she knew Jon wasn't completely in love with her and she never fully trusted him, which is why she was always willing to believe the worst about Jon, like when we see her go from 0 to 60 in 8x05 when Tyrion talks about Varys. She's not willing to dismiss the notion that Jon has betrayed her. So, yes, Anon, brilliant!!!

2) Exactly!!! I don't think she had a specific point in time picked out or the execution planned out to the nth degree, but she absolutely was on her way there. It was continuously escalating, even to the point where other people in the show saw it and would warn him. That is why I will never understand why some still buy the PR bs that the show espoused for the last season, and that some Dany stans/Jonerys shippers still think that had "bad writing" not come into play, that the Targaryen dynasty would have been restored through J/D. That they believed Jon would have survived if Dany's death never happened, and they would have ruled the 7K happily together. Yet they missed all the major red flags indicating the escalating tension between the two and how it was about to be Dance of the Dragons all over again. Hopefully, now if they're watching HotD and they're watching this same tension build and escalate in that show between those two factions of Targaryens, they get it a bit more. Probably not, but I'm still hopeful. ;-)

3) This! Agreed, I think she hasn't truly conquered Jon and she knows that, which is why she keeps trying. And it's exactly why she continues to try to drive a wedge between him and Sansa. Sansa is a threat not only because of what she represents for Dany (Dany as a ruler/conqueror I mean) but also because of what she represents for Jon. Which I'm willing to bet is why they have the whole parallel of Tyrion and Jaime for Dany: 7x04: "Your family you mean. Perhaps you don't want to hurt them after all", 8x02: "Perhaps he trusts his little brother to defend him, right up to the moment he slits my throat", 8x04: after she hears Jon being complimented by Tormund, she then focuses on Tyrion laughing with Jaime (and then sees Jon's back to her again while Tormund continues his praises & Jon is surrounded by people), 8x04: seeing that Cersei will not kill him (not that this has to do with Jaime per se but goes back to that whole Dany can't come between the family thing), 8x05: "Your brother was stopped trying to get past our lines. It seems he hasn't abandoned your sister after all. The next time you fail me will be the last time you fail me", and 8x06: "You freed your brother. You committed treason." I mean, it's all right there. Jon and Tyrion had already been two sides of a coin so to speak when it came to Dany and their love for her. But now they're also running a contrasted parallel (is that a word?) alongside each other when it came to their loyalty and devotion when it came to her and her response to it. I dare say I think Tyrion and Jon frustrated her more at times than Cersei and Sansa themselves. Which then goes back to that weird parallel the two guys have. It also makes me think this is part of the reason why Jorah was no longer around (besides contributing to the endgame for Dany). So my whole long point (sorry, I'm talking too much today lol) is I definitely agree with you. I think Jon was more of a problem for her than Sansa was, in her mind, because of what Sansa represented for Jon.

4) Yes!!!! I think he chose to do that because he felt it was the right thing to do but also so Sansa and Arya would know the truth, for so many reasons. I think he absolutely wanted to end the intimacy between them and like you said, Dany was then unable to reassert the power dynamic between them, and that frustrated her beyond measure. Which is definitely why she reacts the way she does in that 8x04 bedroom scene when he moves away, and then brings up how he was looked at by everyone. I think he was more disgusted with who she was than by the family connection. That's the thing I think a lot of Jonsa antis/Jonerys stans don't get: it's on record that family marriages did sometimes take place in the history of the North. I believe (and I can't remember the names) that there was even an uncle who married his niece at one point. In today's society, yes, gross. But back in the medieval days, this was more easily accepted and par for the course. As it was that two different houses would marry/unite for a political alliance (like Rhaegar with Elia). So while the type of incest between Jaime and Cersei was looked down upon in Westeros post-Targaryen era, some form of incest has always been around Westeros pre-conquering and post-conquering. Cousin-cousin marriages for example were not unheard of. So, I'm not saying that Jon was completely comfortable with sleeping with his aunt, but it's not that he never heard of it, especially with the Targaryen history. And if she conquered KL again, there was no way that the Targaryen incestry wouldn't be re-established at some point.

I agree, I think he's very turned off by who she is. That's also another thing the Jonerys stans don't get, this romance with a character like Dany's goes against Jon's very character. Especially, when you compare Dany to Ygritte for his romantic history. Ygritte was literally fighting against what Dany represented; she never wanted to bend the knee to any ruler/faction. So how could Jon fall for someone like Ygritte whom he clearly loved, but then fall again for the very person that was her antithesis? It makes no sense. How would that be character development for Jon at all? No sense. So I think you're right in that he was looking to end the physical intimacy between them, but I also think he was trying to do it smartly and not outright reject her and draw her ire. Which is why I think the 8x04 bedroom scene starts to happen until Jon pulls away, and then in the 8x05 fireplace scene, it's clearly in the context of fear which is exactly what Dany sees herself. And based on what you mentioned, then that would explain Jon's little half-smile on the beach when Varys approaches him in 8x05, not just exasperation or 'typical Sansa'. As a matter of fact, I don't think Jon was angry that Sansa told his secret, not until he had to kill Dany to protect her. I think he figured 'typical' aka that familiar affectionate exasperation which then turned into fear once he saw what happened to Varys and heard Dany's threat towards Sansa, then anger when Tyrion (and Arya) basically tell him that Sansa won't have a chance if Dany survives. And I don't think he didn't want to kill her because he loved her, I think he didn't want to because she was family to him in a way and he never wanted to kill a woman (which we saw happen twice, with Ygritte [before he fell for her] and then Melisandre [someone he didn't love]).

So yes, I agree, I think he was hoping to end the physical relationship between them and transition it into a family bond instead, just like you said. I think this is especially reaffirmed when Jon points out to Tyrion that the latter has been counseling her in that 8x06 jail cell scene. To me, that sounded extremely protective but in a familial way. I never got romantic vibes from it. So I completely agree!!!

5) Awww thank you!!! 🤗 That is interesting. I have heard that about the books, that Jon was going to rescue the Gray Lady I think it was, that he thought Arya was captured by Ramsay but it's actually Jeyne Poole, I think? To be fair, I haven't gotten to that point in the books, I should though. (I really need to set aside some time to finish them) I didn't realize that was why he was murdered, though. How horrible! I mean, yeah okay, it's horrible any way you look at it, but with the Wildling thing in the show, I kind of got it in a way. But because he went to go save his sister? Yikes. That would have been interesting to see play out on screen, though. Yes, yes, yes!!!! Always for the Starks!!!! ;-)

About Jonsa, that's an interesting take. I do think part of the reason the Jonerys romance happened is half what you mentioned, to keep Dany's dark turn hidden (and subvert expectations, D&D's catchphrase), but also part because the "dance of dragons" had to happen (in place of the I think Aegon story line in the books, I think I read something about Aegon somewhere, don't quote me on this though) and Dany and Jon were two sides of the same coin in the show. Jon and Sansa are, too, but in a different way if that makes sense. Their sides complement one another, whereas Dany's and Jon's did not.

I also think that they whittled it down to this (meaning the way it all unfolded in the end of the show) because of that coin, meaning Jon was going to be the hero and Dany was going to be the final boss. But of course they were going to reach those destinations in a very grey way, just like GRRM made his characters to be.

And like you said, they couldn't confirm that Jon was in love with someone else because it would have disputed the whole Jonerys romance thing, which then would have led to "why are they doing this then?" which would have eventually led to possibly revealing too much too soon. While we know that the hints were always there since season 1 that Dany would turn dark, the GA didn't pay attention and no one saw the KL massacre coming. Well, not that particular scenario I should say, since we knew there was always going to be a choice that she made that she wouldn't be able to come back from. And I think that was what they mostly wanted to keep hidden as well, what she does to KL and the massacre of one million innocent people, including burning alive children. So, I absolutely agree with you about them needing Jonsa to be implied but not explicitly confirmed. I think it also helped (in D&D's minds) to keep the decision Jon would have to make in the dark as well. Again, we all saw the buildup and the writing on the wall, but I think for the GA, the show purposely kept it as ambiguous as possible until the end.

I think it's also very telling (and reiterates your point) that one scene from the documentary, where Bryan reads the part where Jon kills Dany and we see Kit's reaction: "She kisses him...it's the perfect kiss...she looks up at the man she loves..." Never once do we hear (even though the show was over at this point & HBO purposely didn't air it until after it was over so as not to spoil anything) about Jon kissing her, Jon looking down at the woman he loves. And if Jonerys was full-on and not one-sided, then why not show us that part? Why did D&D emphasize only Dany's POV in those lines?

Why...

Why not show us the forehead touch? Why pull back on the frame for this one shot?

Which is exactly what they did with the 7x06 scene where Jon allegedly starts to have feelings for her?

We know why. ;-) So yes, Anon, I absolutely agree with you that they couldn't let Jonsa be explicit which is why I think they worked to confirm it in several other ways that would show again during rewatch after the things they worked to keep hidden had been revealed (minus Jon's big reveal aka pol!Jon since they changed that in the eleventh hour, I'm thinking it was most likely a mixture of Emilia and HBO that was the catalyst for this last minute change).

Oh and not to mention that had Jon killed Dany if they made Jonsa explicit, they would chalk that decision up to him choosing one romance over the other, when it wasn't just about that. That decision held way more importance to Jon's arc and Sansa's arc separately and together as characters than it did romantically. The romance would have just been the icing on the top. But had they made it solely about which woman he chose, it would have negated many things for Jon and Sansa themselves, I think.

I'm so sorry, Anon. I got so wordy and rambled a bit here lol, and I do apologize for my delay in responding to you. Thank you so much for the asks!!! I love discussing GoT and especially this area, so thank you! I hope you have a wonderful week!!! <3

[adecila]

Game of Thrones – 8x04 “The Last of the Starks” episode analysis – or who the fuck ever let D&D write stuff

You know I am pretty much like this dude here –

so I will be the woman to lead this ship or so help me all the old gods and the new.

Spoilers, d’uhh.

Aftermath - but everyone has their wardrobe on fleek, hair looking fab and they even had time to clean the entire field of Winterfell

The episode starts with the funeral pyre and how DARE you make me love Jorah even more and twist the knife in my heart. And did you have to show me Theon, Beric, Edd’s and Lyanna’s bodies??? 

RUDE.

Jon is doing a big speech and it is nice and drove the sobbing further, but I get it this is Jon’s turf so he has to be the one making the big speech. That is such a Dany thing though, and I can’t help to think, when put into perspective with the rest of the episode, that it’s yet again a thing Dany has lost. But more on that later. 

The pyres are lit, sad music, more sobbing from me. OOOPS BUT DID YOU CATCH THAT JONERYS EXCHANGE OF LOOKS? Because I did! I can’t help but think how he looks at her for reassurance and she feels it and she turns and she is just.so.broken. And then she cries and I cry again. 

A feast for crows the survivors 

And then we get a feast and suddenly everyone is happy and stuff… ok, I guess life goes on. Maybe Sandor’s crass remark, under the guise of a funny moment, was meant to make us think on it. But maybe that’s too deep for D&D who the fuck knows. 

Let’s talk about Gendry’s legitimisation. 

Dany does it quite publicly, and small exchange between her and Tyrion makes sense. Honestly, if she hadn’t done it herself then and there, it would have come up at a later point, but with 2 episodes left there’s no time. S.ansa does her shady looks because she throws shade and Bran just stares into the void smh. 

In which I am the Hound unimpressed and eating his chicken. 

Davos x Tyrion

The Lord of Light fucked off into the sunset when he saw D&D’s piss poor writing and honestly same. He probably fucked off when he saw Melisandre was still getting his prophecies wrong. 

Every time S.ansa comes into frame my soul leaves my body a bit more because whY THO. 

Tyrion x Bran the 3ER

Cool beans Bran, that’s how you use you abilities? OMG JOJEN FUCKING DIED FOR YOU–

“I mostly live in the past now” - to me this means Bran has become this empty shell of a man and he just visits the past and checks out cool shit. It’s like a kid who gets access to YouTube for the first time. Heck he can even see his dad or whoever else he misses if he feels anything at all now. Because if he doesn’t even have “wants” then? What was the point of it all? God I swear the writers will not rest until they will have reduced all characters to tropes and empty shells of their former selves.

Tormund and the gang around Jon; Tyrion with Jaime ; Dany alone

This scene right here was the beginning of the end. Remember when Tormund was a dude who was in awe by strong women? D&D don’t. He suddenly is so far up Jon’s ass nothing could take him out. Guess it pays off for him in the end since Jon just gifts him Ghost.

S.ansa just fucking stop OMG PLEASE STOP WITH THE FUCKING LOOKS JFC.

But where was Missandei??? Why was Dany alone? And what the fuck was that look, VArYs?? Someone give Dany a hug because my god the isolation is real. Fuck. STOP. TAKING. EVERYTHING. FROM HER.

Never have I ever… thought the writers would stoop so low but here we are

So it’s all fun and games until it isn’t. 

Poor Tormund. Jaime never deserved Brienne and that’s a fact. 

And the mystery of Willa, the sassy Northern girl has been solved! Bless!!!

SanSan, but with more misogynistic undertones than you ever thought

Yeah you know what, I am not touching this scene. Fuck D&D for daring to say that.

Gendrya - or the moment Gendry decided to pull a Ted Mosby 

I feel so bad OMG they did this ship so dirty. However. Arya saying that was expected. But I call bullshit on her never rethinking her decision. Girl’s got a list and she just can’t NOT try to finish it, I mean, wouldn’t you? After you killed such a big boss as the NK? 

At the same time, they would be trying for faux feminism, pulling a Arya doesn’t need a man to be happy. Guess the sex was just to try it? Wow can you believe they cheapened this ship and that beautiful moment like that? 

I’m so sorry babies, you deserved much better. Guess Gendry was always meant to have his heart broken by a Stark girl once he became a Baratheon. Wow. 

Weirdly enough!!! And spoiler maybe?? Leak? Idk. But I feel like Gendrya will prevail (also because she looks heartbroken to reject him like that…). When asked if Gendrya will rule the 7K, Friki said no, these two aren’t made for ruling anything. For what’s worth, Friki mentioned he does know Arya’s endgame and shebis confirmed alive in the Dragon Pit in 8x06 :)

Oathsex

Uff yeah I did not like that. It felt wrong in the context and it felt cheap and I…. yeah IDK. And then Jaime leaves. He could have at least told Brienne that he is he only one who can kill Cersei or IDK, but not leave her like that. Jeesh dude my poor Knight, she is gutted by him. 

Jonerys makeout and chat and hey who wanted angst? Turn on your location I just wanna chat. 

Sooo flip side: I somehow, for the second time, predicted a thing in my fic. HOWEVER D&D keep only getting half my fics because GURL DID YOU NOT GET THE SMUT MEMO? AND THE FLUFF MEMO?

So Dany goes to find Jon, again, who is tipsy, and Jon suddenly remembers to give Dany some comfort for having lost Jorah… 

The set up for Dany saying ILY it’s a bit .. ehh. But her actual words: “He loved me, but I couldn’t love him back, not the way he wanted it. Not the way I love you. Is that alright?” 

A+ scene. I love how he can’t help himself and as soon as she is in his arms’ range he just pulls her into him, BEFORE she asks “Is that alright?”. 

Uff emo side note here, this scene and this phrase reminded me of this song. Listen and sob. you’re welcome.

On that depressive note, wow that make out tho. Two things I learned from this scene: 1 - Jon is horny drunk, which same; and 2 - Jon is a tiddies guy like he dove in and went for the tiddies, which also same. Am I Jon? Is this why I keep guessing his fucking reactions but D&D won’t give me the rest????? We’ll never know.

And… then Jon stops and pulls back. And I KNOW that in the BTS we are told he is disgusted or whatever along those lines, but to me?? That look means he is CONFLICTED. And listen, if y’all wanted it to make it to mean "disgusted" then you should have made Kit do it differently since YOU KNOW HE WAS FAKE GAGGING TO EMILIA EVERY OTHER MINUTE. YOU CAN’T KEEP ADDING SHIT LATER YOU FUCKING DUMBASSES YOU EITHER PUT IT IN THE ACTUAL  SHOW AND THE ACTUAL ACTING OR STFU.

But I guess to me that rejection was more for the general audience than for us. C’mon he clearly loves her, his dick was so hard he was about to nut then and there. Stop bringing your 21st century considerations into a feudalistic fantasy where you have Royals and dragons. Also FUCK YOU VARYS BECAUSE EVEN IN THE NORTH AUNT AND NEPHEW MARRIED SO FUCK YOU BALDIE.

I digress. Then Dany echoes what Jon himself thinks/said - wishing she would have never known. And then we get something that I felt when she was alone and sad at the feast. “I saw the way they looked at you. I know that look; the same way people looked at me, but never on this side of the sea” - yeah so I need a break.

This here - cemented for me what I think the show is doing: stripping everything away from Dany: her armies, her children, her people and the love her people have for her… then Jon. And I don’t mean that as in the sense of some bullshit fleak. No, I mean it in the context of this episode. Because Jon never says I love you back (and maybe @normalisjustafairytale is right and Jon is afraid to say it after Ygritte), and he rejects her, and he says he can’t NOT tell his sisters, even if Dany begs him not to. So in a sense, for now at least, Jon is being taken away from her. So you have all this isolation and losing and losing and then what does she have left? The only constant in her life? The fucking Iron Throne. Because at the moment there is nothing else for her and she probably feels like she will be nothing without it. Hence why she presses to go and take Cersei down. I won’t lie to you, it is cheap writing and very lame and honestly I have read fics a million times better than this bullshit, but they will, at one point, hit us with the boatie reveal, and when that happens, and when Jon fucking finally pulls through and stands by her side, she will have something else, a different constant in life. Moreover, because she realises that the people here in Westeros will never love her, she will have even more of a reason to bow out, say a big fuck you, take her boatie and her hubs and get to her house with the red door. 

This is not just wishful thinking, it is very much D&D, and they will of course “humble the powerful woman” (I puked in my mouth by writing that). But also, my consolation is that with this episode, heck even the people who weren’t necessarily her fans, are on her side and asking her to burn KL down. Which I don’t think she would, but more on that in a different post. God this post is already long.

*bathroom break*

BAck. Then Dany echoes what I also said in my fic ugh I hate myself what we all know and are thinking: it doesn’t matter if Jon doesn’t want it; it matter that there are people out there (fucking S.ansa jfc this fucking UGGHDGugduzdahidfg) who don’t like Dany and will support Jon immediately over her. She is right and he is stupid for not seeing it. 

I guess I also got my bending the knee from my fic. Kinda. FUCK.ME.

I cannot believe that my Queen had to BEG him and Jon had to be so naive. BOY DID YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THE LESSON FROM YOUR FATHER? Two can keep a secret is one of them is dead, Jonno. Did you not watch Pretty Little Liars??? Why the fuck do you think Ned Stark didn’t tell his wife?? LMAO she would have sold him just like S.asnsa blabbed on you, guess the J___sas were right, it was a bit of a Ned x Cat parallel, probably Cat would have sold Ned also in a fucking instant. Dany is absolutely right. This shit cannot be contained because you don’t know how people would react to it. 

“She’s not the girl you grew up with” … BOOM.

I love how he cradles her face into his hands MY FUCKING HEART MY HEART.

Pause. The part where she begs remind me of this traumatic moment:

… fuuuuck. Anyway.

And I love how she turns the tables on him. But Jon… is still Jon for plot reasons I guess. Maybe he didn’t understand why Ned had to keep the secret for so many years. 

The end of the Northern plot - BYE NO ONE WILL MISS YOU

The Starks can choke. They are cancelled. 

Yeah no. Bye. Fuck S.ansa or Sandra, who the fuck this OOC shitty ass character is. Fuck every single one of them. Wow, emotional manipulation at its finest. I just love how they basically called this episode the last of the Starks because they just character assassinated all of them. Edit: LMAO you know what this is? The shitty family that pulls over one member and tries to break him up with his wife, for the sole reason they don't like her. Because fuck their brother's happiness. Because they are fucking selfish people.  

Jaime x Tyrion x my headache

Let’s add to the list of cancelled people Jaime and Tyrion just for that fucking chat.

“I will pay you double” ex machina, and that’s how the Bronn issue is solved. Just as Friki said, btw. 

Arya x The Hound

So I guess Arya just fucking lies through her teeth now smh, since she was guilt trippig JON JUST MOMENTS AGO and she just up and leaves BECAUSE FUCK FAMILY I GUESS 

Tyrion is suddenly afraid of Dany so I guess we are supposed to excuse Sandra’s petty shady jealous ass 

Sandra is fucking jealous and insane. Littlefinger will be proud. Her face though. This fucking bitch doesn’t like that he is a Targaryen LMFAO she is scheming so hard bahahahahah

She is fucking cancelled. They murdered her character the moment they took her out of the Vale. FIGHT ME ON THIS I FUCKING DARE YOU.

Jon x Tormund x Ghost - say your goodbyes

Hey hey hey so that line where Jon belongs in the North? The real North, which for Tormund is North of the Wall since he calls Winterfell the South? Guess where those waterfalls from 8x01 are?

Jon is the worst dog owner KILL ME.

Fucking Sam Tarly

Jon was like yeah no don’t name your kid after me. Interesting how he could tell from a hug that Gilly was pregnant. Hope Dany starts showing soon *wink wink boatie is still coming*

The IT or Southern plot

Tyrion x Varys

I cannot wait for Varys to die. Like, he is spewing inaccurate information and then, he is suddenly against Dany and suddenly only Jon is a war hero. Just because he has a dick. Fuck D&D and their sexist asses Also VArys keeps talking about the realm LMAO YOU KNOW WHAT I SEE? I see kings dying all around you, and the only constant it’s you. Who is the problem, I wonder? 

Euron ex machina

Makes no fucking sense. But I guess nobody cares anymore.

Yeah I screamed when Rhaegal died. And I screamed again with Dany.

I guess Dany couldn’t just fly behind Euron’s ship and roast them all for plot reasons. 

Dragonstone mess

Fuck you, Varys. And fuck you, Tyrion. Not you, Greyworm, ILY *hugs tightly*

BONUS: FUCK YOU JAIME FUUUUUCK YOU FOR LEAVING BRIENNE LIKE THAT. BYE BITCH GOOD RIDDANCE.

King’s Landing mess & the shitty ass parley that even Captain Sparrow could have organised better

Ew how much time has it passed since Cersei is already claiming to be preggers? 

“So much for the breaker of chains” - is again, a sign they are trying to strip Dany of everything she has and is. 

Tyrion and Qyburn - ew, but also Qyburn has a point, why would Cersei surrender? Oh and I think the point to save Rhaegal from the NK only for him to die at the hands of Euron is to further handicap Dany and make the Cersei threat real, and have a reason to keep Drogon away from KL - HAVE YOU ALL SEEN THE SCORPIONS EVERYWHERE?

Ugh Tyrion stop trying to get Cersei to love you LMFAO she doesn’t. But I know, it is hard to break from toxic relationships and abusers. Tyrion told Cersei “you are not a monster” and she literally went “HOLD MY BEER”.

Missandei’s death made me sick to my stomach and traumatised me for life. We should all collectively agree to NEVER give D&D our attention again and never let them write anything again. 

Missandei hatefully spewing DRACARYS as her last words was so strong it made me start crying because holy shit this was a peaceful person, and for her to show this much hate and rage was so gutting…  fuck me. I am crying again. I think she also meant, besides from the obvious, “there is no reasoning with these people, so why bother. Might as well blow it the fuck up.”

And Grey’s reaction wow - again, I was about to puke, despite the scene not being the most gorey on GoT, but it was so intrinsically and viscerally wrong my mind could not deal. 

In conclusion

Poor Dany, she has lost everything. EVERYTHING. She is literally at her lowest. After the discussion with Jon, she slipped back the Queen mask - like you can pinpoint the moment she does so! And she keeps it on in front of everyone else but her dragons.

I am expecting a very very cold (but very fragile inside) Dany in 8x05. I am expecting her to push Jon away. Oh and at the ending of 8x04 she totally just gets up on Drogon and goes back to Dragonstone. No way she does anything yet so soon.

I haven’t watched any of the BTS and Making of videos, nor have I watched the 8x05 promo. Will do soon.

Stay strong, jonerys is still going strong. I am here until the very end and I still think this will end with jonerys together. Will it be good writing? Nope. But it will end well. As I keep saying. We’re missing the “sweet” in this fucking “bittersweet” shit show. Stop saying it ends badly because of 8x03.

If you need me, you know where to find me. Image of me in the fandom. Except I charge nothing.

Oh and PS: FUCK D&D.

[ansheofthevalley]

Different approaches to the truth: Dænerys, Jon and the Iron Throne

(this is in response to this post)

The Starks vs. Dænerys clash is very clear, especially in ep. 4. So we have two scenes in which Jon seems to be in the middle of this clash: both sides want him to pick them. But from what I’ve seen all week is that something really important is flying over people/stans’ heads, and that’s their reasons. While the clash started as something purely political, it turned to be extremely personal (for Dæny in 8x02, for the Starks in 8x04). The conflict is still very much political, but now in a way that not only affects the North but the whole Seven Kingdoms, and it’s personal because it puts at risk the last of two of the greatest Houses in Westeros, all because of RLJ.

While the Starklings view this issue as a personal one, one that has political connotations; for Dænerys is the other way around: this is a political issue that happens to be personal as well. 

The scene really start when they kiss, because that will be the catalyst for their conflict in the scene: the fact that Jon is Rhaegar’s son and what that means, both personally and politically.

D: I wish you’ve never told me. If I didn’t know, I’d be happy right now. I try to forget, tonight I did for a while, and then I saw them gathered around you

D: I saw the way they looked at you. I know that look. So many people have looked at me that way but never here, never on this side of the sea.

She wants what Jon has: the people’s devotion. Just as she was Mhysa in Slaver’s Bay, just as she’s the great Khaleesi to the Dothraki, she wants that same devotion from the Lords and Ladies of Westeros, but the thing is Westeros is not the same as Essos. In Essos, she broke chains; in Westeros, she’s trying to subjugate people. Of course people won’t look at her the same way people did back in Essos. She’s been aware of this ever since she set foot in the North:

The fact that she witnesses the loyalty and trust Sansa also has is noteworthy. This ultimately becomes an issue for Dænerys. I believe one of the biggest issues Dæny has with Sansa is the fact that she has the things she so desperately wants: the people’s love, loyalty and trust. And she ends up resenting her for it, as we’ve seen in 8x04. 

J: I told you I don’t want it

D: It doesn’t matter what you want

D: You didn’t want to be King in the North. What happens when they demand you press your claim and take what is mine?

Well, there’s a lot to unpack here. First of all, Jon is telling her he has no interest on the Throne. She can keep it. But Dæny offers two good points: he didn’t want to be KitN and he ended up being one and she’s factoring in the will of the people. I know we joke around saying she lacks self-awareness (it’s not really a joke if it’s true but that’s not the point), but right now, in this moment, she’s self-aware. She’s aware she doesn’t have the support of the people, that her chances of getting the Throne rest on her firepower and the support of the Lords. 8x01, 8x02 and the feast in 8x04 made her and us see that. She does not have the people’s loyalty, nor does she have their love. Who does though? The Starks, namely Jon and Sansa.

J: I’ll refuse. You are my Queen. I don’t know what else I can say.

D: You can say nothing to anyone, ever. Never tell them who you really are. Swear your brother and Samwell Tarly to secrecy and tell no one else

D: Or it will take a life of its own and you won’t be able to control it or what it does to people, no matter how many times you bend the knee, no matter what you swear.

Like I said, this is the first time in a while we’ve seen Dæny this self-aware, in this case, of her fragile grasp on the little power she has. While she asks Jon not to say a word, she’s passionate and vulnerable, a stark contrast to, let’s say, the audiences in 8x01 and 8x02, the war council in 8x02. Even during the reveal in 8x02, she had her “queenly mask”. But not here. Because she’s looking the truth at the face. While asking this of Jon, she’s acknowledging how fragile her power actually is. Because, in a land where people chose who should rule them, she knows she wouldn’t be first choice. 

But there’s also another thing. She’s openly rejecting Jon as a Targaryen. For her, the complications of Jon being her nephew are purely political. Jon is a threat to her claim. So, to neutralize the threat, she asks him to keep the truth a secret. To make him consciously live a lie, all so she can get the Throne. And to be fair with Dæny, I get it. I fundamentally disagree with it, but I get it. She’s been on this journey for years. She suffered a lot in order to get where she’s now. And just when the Iron Throne is at the reach of her hand, another contender for the Throne appears. A legitimate Targaryen with a higher claim than hers who is loved and respected by northerners, the wildlings, the Knights of the Vale, and even some of the Lannisters. From her POV, it’s as if everything’s falling apart, just when she’s about to get the one thing she’s been after for so long. After facing many foes, after being abducted, after crossing the Narrow Sea, after losing Viserion, after losing a large part of her armies, after losing Jorah; it turns out she’s not the last Targaryen and she’s not the rightful heir to the Iron Throne. But she’s been isolated for so long, unapproachable, alone in that bubble of hers, all the while she feeded the idea of destiny, of being the princess that was promised, that she has a warped version of reality. So when she finds out Jon is her nephew, her family, she isn’t happy. Instead she sees it as a threat to what she’s set up to do. All of this contrasts the dynamic Jon has with the Starks:

 But let’s go back to the Jon-Dæny scene.

D: I want it to be the way it was between us.

J: I have to tell Sansa and Arya.

I’ve given a definition (according to Roland Barthes) of a romantic scene in a previous meta:

In a romantic narrative, the scene is a back-and-forth. The two (they’re always two) argue or exchange remarks and they want to prove to the other that they are the ones on the right. They both seek to have the last word. As this is a back-and-forth, neither of the two is above the other; they’re on the same level, they’re equals, but most importantly, they need each other. It’s a confrontation, but neither of the two will leave the scene or submit to the other; it’s a way for the characters to have pleasure without it being physical: it tortures them, it’s perverse, but they will give into it.

For the scene to work, there must be a bait, something that will get the scene started. The bait can either be a) a fact (one affirms it and the other denies it) or b) a decision (one imposes it and the other rejects it). There is no way the tension in the scene can be resolved, there’s no agreement, simply because what’s being disputed between the two is not a fact or a decision, it’s something that lays outside the scene: it’s subtext. So the scene has no object or loses this object (the reason they’re arguing) very quickly. The scene builds in like a crescendo, what one character says reinforces the opposite idea of the other and so on and on. Silence is a powerful tool. It doesn’t stop a scene, it strengthens it. There are three possible ends to a scene, all external to the scene’s structure:

-both characters are fatigued -a stranger arrives -the aggression changes into desire

At first, one could read this scene as romantic. But it’s not. This scene plays like a reverse romance scene. It starts with desire (the kiss) but it quickly changes to aggression. There’s also the fact that Jon and Dæny are not equals. Jon tells Dæny she’s his Queen twice, one of them while he’s on his knees. She constantly brings up the power inbalance in their relationship (”it doesn’t matter what you want”, ”take what is mine”, “never tell them who you really are”, “no matter how many times you bend the knee”). The scene, instead of working as a back-and-forth, gives the impression of Jon trying his best to reassure Dænerys that what she’s saying that will happen won’t. It looks like the bait is a fact, the matter of Jon’s parentage and its impact, that one is affirming it and the other one is denying it. But Jon’s denial of what Dæny is saying comes from a place of submission. Jon denying what Dæny is affirming is him trying to appease her doubts and fears, nothing else. What’s my basis for saying this? The fact that there is no subtext. The conflict is explicit, it’s part of the text. This is not a romantic scene.

D: Sansa will want to see me gone and you on the Iron Throne.

J: She won’t.

D: She’s not the girl you grew up with. Not after what she’d seen, not after what they’ve done to her.

J: I owe them the truth.

I’ll repeat myself (for the third time). God knows I have my issues with the dialogue in this episode (x) (x), but one of the things D&D manage to do right is to make Dænerys aware of the situation at hand. She’s not been in Winterfell long, but from what she’s seen, Sansa is a respected and loved leader, one that defends her own interests (her fierce allegiance to her House) but that of her people (Northern Independence). Whatever she says, it will be heard and it will be taken into consideration. And for Dæny, that’s a problem, because Sansa and the North’s interests go against her own. And from the little time they’ve spent together, she knows she cannot sway her nor subdue her.

And the fact that she sees only Sansa as the problem goes on to confirm that Dæny sees this conflict as a political one first and a personal one second. She can’t see the deep bond the Starklings have with one another and how they make their decisions as a pack, as a unit, moved by their sense of family.

D: Even if the truth destroys us?

J: It won’t.

D: It will. I’ve never begged for anything... but I’m begging you, don’t do this. Please.

Again, Jon is trying his damn best to appease her doubts and fears. He tries to reassure her that him telling Sansa and Arya won’t be a problem, but Dænerys continues on challenging him. But what’s interesting is that she’s really vulnerable here. She begs him not to tell them. IMO, this is the closest thing we had of them being shown at “a same level”, of them being equals. In this part of the scene, she’s not Dænerys Stomborn, Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. She’s just a girl begging her boyfriend to keep his mouth shut. But the fact that this is the closest thing we’ve had of them being equals goes on to show how disproportionate the power dynamics are in this relationship.

J: You are my Queen. Nothing will change that. And they’re my family. We can live together. 

D: We can. I’ve just told you how.

What I like about this scene (after rewatching it a couple of times and forgetting about that god-awful line) is the fact that Jon himself reinforces the Starks vs. Targaryen conflict. He sees Dænerys as a figure of power/authority and he sees the Starks as his family. This is huge. For all the POV blocking he’s fallen victim to, Jon basically tells the audience that his allegiance is to the Starks, though it’s subtle. This is reinforced by the fact that, after Dæny begged/ordered him to keep his mouth shut, he still makes sure Sansa and Arya find out the truth. 

[nomnomzombies]

8x04 Identity, Symbology and Implications

In my 8x04 analysis, I talked about how Ghost and Rhaegal are the physical embodiment of Jon’s dual identity--which, really isn’t news... people have known and discussed at length the symbolism behind the fates of the direwolves and their respective owners. But one thing that I hadn’t talked about were the fates of the two animals in this last episode. In my analysis I talked about how their state after the battle was heavily symbolic of Jon’s security in his identity. 

In the face of some of the leaks that have been floating around, I thought it would be important to dissect some of the easter eggs and symbology that’s at play with the two animals. So, given the information that’s already canon, and the information that’s speculative, let’s look at what 8x04 was telling us in terms of the fates of Ghost and Rhaegal, and what’s in store for Jon Snow. 

First, and foremost, the Eulogy that Jon gave: 

“We’re here to say goodbye to our brothers and sisters; to our fathers and mothers; to our friends; our fellow men and women who set aside their differences to fight together and die together so that others might live (1). Everyone in this world owes them a debt that can never be repaid (2). It is our duty and honor to keep them alive in memory (3) for those who come after us, and for those who come after them, for as long as men draw breath. They were the shields that guard the realms of men, and we shall never see their like again (4).” 

(1) Jon’s Wildling speech at Hardhome

(2) ADWD “The North Remembers” Speech--”Even when I threatened to have her tongue out, [Wylla] reminded me of the debt White Harbor owes to the Starks of Winterfell, a debt that can never be repaid.” Interesting note? Wylla was the name of the woman that Ned Stark had said was Jon’s mother. 

(3) Jon’s conversation with Qhorin Halfhand, “...your death will be a gift for them South of the Wall. They’ll never know what you’ve done, they’ll never know how you died, they won’t even know your damn name, but they’ll be alive because some nameless bastard North of the Wall laid his life for theirs.” 

(4) Obvious Night’s Watch reference. 

Everything about the eulogy is in reference to The North, and the Night’s Watch. This seems pretty obvious, right? Because that’s every part of who Jon Snow is. How he was raised. His entire life up to this point has been centered around the North and the Night’s Watch. Jon was never going to embrace a Targaryen identity that he doesn’t have. He was raised with Ned Stark’s values, teachings, ideologies.... Everything. The only thing that Jon knows about the Targaryens are from 1) Dan and 2) literal horror stories that he was told throughout his entire childhood. 

Any hope that Jon had for developing a Targaryen identity died with Daenerys’ ambition for the throne. 

And this is directly addressed in canon by Dan forcing an injured Rhaegal to fly south and Rhaegal being shot down as a result. In my previous analysis, I talked about how Dan marching south on the backs of a compromised host was telling of her current mental and emotional state following RLJ, and it’s likely that Dan forcing Rhaegal to fly south despite being gravely injured is an allusion to the fact that Dan is relentless of Jon in the wake of RLJ and “begging for secrecy.” (Rhaegal is shown as flying poorly. Euron was able to shoot down Rhaegal so easily because he first shot him in the chest--the exact place where Viserion had ripped apart his scales. Rhaegal was also an easy target because he was injured and flying poorly as a result. Not only that, but we’ve only seen dragons die when they are riderless, likely pushing the “lone wolf dies” mantra).  

Ghost should have stayed in Winterfell with Sansa.

There, I said it. Ghost has been in Winterfell and in the presence of Sansa for years now. They’ve bonded, they’ve connected. /rant

 Fanservice aside, what does it mean?

WHY should Ghost have stayed in Winterfell with Sansa? (symbolically speaking) If we look at Game of Thrones like the massive chess match (or cyvasse, arguably, since we have dragons and shit), Sansa is Jon’s queen. Regardless of shippers, regardless of all of the parallels between Jon/Aragorn and Sansa/Eowyn, Sansa is playing the game. And the queen is the strongest piece on the board. 

So why did Jon send Ghost go North of the Wall? Just like with the death of Rhaegal, the animals are representing what is happening NOW, not what WILL happen. Jon’s hope of a Targaryen identity died between Jon and Dan in “begging for secrecy.” He chose his Stark heritage by telling his family, and sending Ghost North of the Wall is one form of protection, but it’s also respect. He knows that he can’t give Ghost the life he deserves at Winterfell, and wants to give him the opportunity to live the life he was born to live. Sending Ghost North of the Wall represents his desire to escape, but also his feelings of inferiority as a “real Stark.” He’s refuting his Stark identity because, after everything, he still doesn’t feel good enough. His gazing down at Lyanna’s body during the funeral showed all of his guilt for feeling as though he betrayed the North for bending the knee to Dan. 

Moreover, they’ve done a lot to parallel Jon and Dan to Jon and Ygritte. The infamous How to Train your Dragon sequence in 8x01 was an interesting parallel to Ygritte showing Jon the ways of the Wildlings, right down to the banter. And where did it end up? At the waterfall, with Daenerys saying, “We could stay here for a thousand years,” and Jon’s pensive silence. This is a direct reference to the playful banter between Jon and Ygritte that lead them to the cave and Ygritte saying, “I never want to leave.” And what did Jon say? *insert pensive silence here* 

What’s the point of paralleling Jon and Ygritte other than to emphasize Jon’s inner turmoil in the face of a broken oath and a doomed romance.

Jon felt like an oathbreaker for running with the Wildlings, just like Jon feels like an oathbreaker for bending the knee to Dan. It was obvious that Jon was enjoying his time with Ygritte, and had a deep affection for her. There’s evidence that Jon’s enjoyed his time with Dan and had affection for her, too. There’s plenty of things to like about Dan, but it doesn’t change the fact that she’s fundamentally flawed. Her entire arc, since season 1, has been a direct parallel to Cersei, and her interactions with Sansa have been very telling of the Cersei 2.0 action that’s been happening while Dan’s been in Winterfell. 

So Jon sending Ghost north could be seen as heavily symbolic of his Ygritte arc, as well. Tormund even told Jon that he’s got the real North in him. And, let’s not forget, that Ghost was running around North of the Wall the entire time that Jon was with the Wildlings, as well. 

So where do we go from here?

Honestly? I think that there are a handful of really great metas floating around that discuss the LotR parallels that are emerging, and in my humble opinion, I’d have to say that Jon is emerging to be Aragorn, NOT Frodo. But I’m really not a Tolkien wiz, so please see @fedonciadale for insight on that. 

.

If you’ve made it this far, thank you so much for your overwhelming support of my last analysis! I know that I initially talked about analyzing the Sansa/Dan dynamic and literary symmetry, but the more time has passed the more I’ve been consumed with the unethical treatment of Ghost. And.... I also typed up a several page essay that paralleled Dan and Cersei’s arcs without doing my research first.... (this is awkward), but I spent a lot of time on it, and if you have the time to give it a read, I’d really appreciate it! I had a lot of fun doing the analysis. If you’re enjoying my metas, please drop a line and let me know, or give me suggestions about what to talk about/how to improve! I’m still very new to this. Cheers!

[captainfangirlll]

ANOTHER REASON WHY WE HAVEN’T SEE THE LAST OF GENDRYA

So Guys I asked Jordi (Youtuber who mades soundtracks analysis) about Gendrya theme song because if you saw my analysis about Arya’s themes in GoT you know that they haven’t complete her love theme yet, Let you here my analysis in case you haven’t see it:

So you all know i have the theory that if a theme is not complete the history either, I’ll prove the theory with Theons death💔 (theme complete, arc complete, so he died) in Gendrya’s case I told you all that Gendry wasn’t dying in Winterfell battle bc Gendrya theme wasn’t complete and he didn’t, so last episode they put Gendrya love theme in their scene, so I asked Jordi if the theme was complete, and he answered me (fangirl)

Is on spanish bc he is from Spain so I will Translate:

I asked:

Hey Jordi I know you haven’t post GoT 8x04 musical analysis but I want to know if Gendrya theme was complete bc if it was it’s posible they close their arc but if they haven’t we can expect more scenes between them?

Nope is not complete yet, what a shame...

Thats good! they can give us more scene and fix that arc. Thank you

Well then he left me on seen😂... BUT

I still with my theory! Why they didn’t complete the theme? Is because we haven’t arrived to their closer, we can expect more Gendrya scenes bc they haven’t complete their theme yet, they are waiting for the perfect moment♥️.

THERE IS HOPE PEOPLE. We waited 6 years for this, against all the odds don’t surrender now.

[lo-lynx]

The reluctant (masculine) hero in GoT and Harry Potter

(Spoiler warning for episode 8x04 of Game of Thrones)

In the latest episode of Game of Thrones Varys and Tyrion talks about who would be the best ruler of The Seven Kingdoms; the queen who has spent years trying to get the throne, or the potential king who doesn’t want it. (NOTE: I AM NOT TAKING A STAND ON WHO WOULD BE THE BETTER RULER) Varys then says: “Have you considered the best ruler might be someone who doesn’t want to rule?” (Game of Thrones 2019: 57:34 min) This plays right into the classic trope of the reluctant hero, the character who doesn’t want to lead but is forced into the situation and turns out to be the hero. Another example of this is Harry Potter, who never wants to be the chosen one, but ends up leading the fight against evil nonetheless. In the seventh Harry Potter book the issue of power and how it can corrupt is very present, and in their final dreamlike discussion Harry and his mentor Dumbledore discusses just that. Dumbledore says:

It is a curious thing, Harry, but perhaps those who are best suited to power are those who have never sought it. Those who, like you, have leadership thrust upon them, and take up the mantle because they must, and find to their own surprise that they wear it well. (Rowling 2007: 575)

I couldn’t help but to think of that quote after watching that latest Game of Thrones episode and ruminating on how alike Jon Snow and Harry Potter’s journey of reluctant leadership are. Jon Snow declines leadership several times in both the books and the show, in this latest episode of the show they emphases several time how he doesn’t want the throne. The books obviously haven’t gotten that far, but there as well this trope is evident when Jon initially doesn’t want to be the Lord Commander of the Night’s Watch (Martin 2000/2011: 519). This recurring theme in stories of the hero not wanting to lead is interesting and is most likely there to make us more sympathetic towards them. But as @arhythmetric on twitter wrote (and shout out to her for being the inspiration of this text), not everyone has the opportunity to be a leader in the first place:

I understand the appeal of the “reluctant monarch” but I continue to hate it because it almost always cuts against those to whom power doesn’t just fall into their laps. Look at who gets to be the reluctant monarch every time: straight, able-bodied white men.

The myth of the reluctant leader cuts against women, POC, LGBTQ, disabled people, those who DON’T already have power. And when they try to take some of it, they get painted as power hungry for wanting something denied to them. Because we have to fight for it in a way those who just get it don’t.  (arhythmetric 2019)

There are a million ways one could analyse the reluctant hero, why some leaders are seen as legitimate and some not, but one thing that struck me as interesting is the way the importance of them to be masculine.

As many have written before, the traditional hero in Western stories are male, and masculine (Goodwill 2009: 15). But what does masculine mean? RW Connell (2008: 109) writes that there are different types of masculinities in society, that are all a result of the gender relations that exists. She sees gender as a way to organise social praxis, that is, how everyday life is organised based on the reproductive arena (i.e. bodily functions such as attraction and child bearing) (Connell 2008: 138). Moreover, by describing the different kinds of masculinity that exists she makes it clear that there are hierarchical relations between them as well (Connell 2008: 114). She describes different types of masculinity, but here I want to focus on hegemonial masculinity. Hegemonial masculinity is the type of masculinity that is on the top of the gender hierarchy. It is the ideal version of masculinity and the one that best preserves men’s power over women. It’s important to note that this might not be what we often think of as the most masculine, it doesn’t have to be a body builder for instance. In Sweden (where I live) I’d probably describe it as a white middle class man, who works out (but not too much), is a responsible dad, is handy and likes being outdoors, but is also “with the times” and tech-savvy… You get it, the ideal. The point is that hegemonial masculinity is different in different contexts. One important part of it however is that it often excludes certain types of men, for instance LGBTQ men are often seen as “too feminine” (Connell 2008: 116). Another example is that men of colour for instance might represent a marginalised masculinity, something framed as the opposite of the (white) hegemonic masculinity (Connell 2008: 117).

How does this all connect to the reluctant hero? Well, I would consider most heroes to be examples of hegemonic masculinity. In many ways, that is what makes others rally around them as leaders, even if they don’t want to be those leaders. If we use Harry Potter and Jon Snow as examples they very much fit many of the requirements to be ideal masculine heroes. Firstly, they’re both white, straight (as far as we know…), able-bodied and men. Like Varys said in this last Game of Thrones episode “Yes because he’s a man. Cocks are important I’m afraid.” (Game of Thrones 2019: 1:01:08 min) (Note: I obviously don’t think genitals determine one’s gender, but the world does, including in Westeros) But while they’re both fighters they aren’t merciless, both of them try to spare people from death when they can, often to their own detriment. (Martin 2011/2012: 829 & 1064; Rowling 2007: 64) This shows that they aren’t just super-masculine killing machines. The fact that they don’t want to be leaders also show that they are somewhat humble, another good trait. But the fact that they can afford to not be ambitious, and still becomes leaders is in my opinion dependant on the fact that they fit the image of hegemonic masculinity so well.

Wahl, Holgersson, Höök and Linghag (2011) discusses how gender impacts hierarchies in organisations, and what kind of leader someone can be. They write about three aspects that impacts one’s ability to rise in the hierarchy; ability/opportunity, power, and the composition of the group (Wahl et al. 2011: 77). The first aspect is about what kind of ability one perceives themselves to have to advance. Someone with limited resources/opportunities will limit their own ambition, but someone who starts off with many opportunities will have a higher self-esteem and make use of the opportunities they have. When it comes to power, someone with a small amount of power becomes more authoritative and has to use force to get their will through (Wahl et al 2011: 79). But someone with more power can afford to be more relaxed and thus is generally more liked. Finally, the group’s composition matters because if you are in a minority (for instance being a woman in a male-dominated workplace) you become more visible (Wahl et al 2011: 80). This can be negative because you then become a representative of that whole minority and might have to suffer from stereotypes that exists. You might also feel more pressured to perform well, feeling that you are a representative of for instance all women. A final consequence might be that the majority group might feel threatened by you infringing on what has previously solely been their territory.

Does any of this sound familiar? Those last points in particular, in my opinion, very much describe how Daenerys and Jon have been described in this last season of Game of Thrones. Authoritative and disliked, or less bothered by formalities and more liked by the people. Daenerys is a stranger, not only as someone having lived in another country, but also as a woman trying to rule. She becomes hyper visible in this way, and as Varys says, perhaps people would be less forgiving if she was a man. Jon on the other hand doesn’t want to rule, but people keep trying to force it on him. He can keep turning down leadership, but people will still accept him as a leader. If Daenerys didn’t actively try to seek power no one would give it to her. This is in the end why so many reluctant heroes are white straight able-bodied men, they can be reluctant and still be given power. I’m not saying that someone that isn’t a white man is automatically a better ruler. But I am saying that it’s much easier for such a person to gain power. If a woman, POC, LGBTQ+ person, and/or disabled person doesn’t actively seek it no one will give it to us. But a good hero doesn’t seek power.

 References:

arhythmetric (2019). I understand the appeal of the "reluctant monarch"(…) [twitter post], 6th of May. https://twitter.com/arhythmetric/status/1125377350596812801 [2019-05-06]

Connell, R.W. (2008) Maskuliniteter. (2nd edition). Göteborg: Bokförlaget Daidalos AB [this is the Swedish translation of Connell’s book Masculinities]

Game of Thrones (2019). The Last of the Starks. [TV-show] HBO, 5th of May.

Goodwill, J-A. S. (2009) THE ACTION HERO REVISIONED: AN ANALYSIS OF FEMALE “MASCULINITY” IN THE NEW FEMALE HERO IN RECENT FILMIC TEXTS. Master dissertation. University of South Africa.

Martin, G.R.R. (2000/2011). A Storm of Swords 2: Blood and Gold. London: HarperVoyager.

Martin, G. R. R. (2011/2012). A Dance with Dragons. London: HarperVoyager.

Rowling, J.K. (2007). Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. London: Bloomsbury Publishing.

Wahl, A., Holgersson, C., Höök, P. & Linghag, S. (2011). Det ordnar sig: teorier om organisation och kön. Lund: Studentlitteratur.

[scarlet-sun-blog]

Berric's Final Words to Arya

In an interview, Richard Dormer said he was supposed to say "Live" as Berric's last word to Arya.

Link here: x

But it was cut. Why?

My analysis:

You know how this season GoT really trying to tell us that Arya is regaining her humanity. Maisie said that Arya is torn in this season. I think, Arya is torn to choose between being a cold-lonely assasin over family and love.

Beric saved Arya's life and told her to live. Not "don't die". Not "survive". Not "are you okay?". Or etc. No. He said "Live". Berric told her to live, to choose what life has to offer. To live a life she wouldn't regret, a life that leads to her happiness. Not surviving a lifeless life as a coldhearted-identityless assasin.

But they cut that scene. MEH. Well, I can't blame them.

Arya was appeared to be sad at the funeral in this episode (8x04) even though she's not crying cause she's supposed to feel nothing. She was seen looking at Beric's body, he died saving her after all. But of course, Arya still need to go to complete her list of killing, before she's done fighting.

Therefore, I think, there will be Hound and Arya conversation about life, maybe at his death bed. It would make a heavier impact on Arya if he is the one who got to say this than if Berric did. If they didn't cut those Beric's last word scene, it would seems like Arya taking Berric's word for granted because now she's choosing death (not planning to comeback to WF because she thinks she won't make it) over life.

So yeah, I hope Arya would successfully regain her humanity. Whether being a lady or not, I hope she'd realize and choose love and family over death.

There's hope for Gendrya, the hope is faint yeah, but I refuse to give up!

What do we say to the god of hopelessness? NOT TODAY.

[tarthserjaime]

Re: the White Book scene

Long reply to @ofwickedlight spot-on meta (read that first):

Don't get me wrong, I loved the beautiful love/marriage/honor theme playing over this scene -- proper analysis of which may or may not be forthcoming at some point -- but one of the reasons it made me sob when I heard it properly from the OST was that it felt *unearned*. Too little too late. Not after Jaime's actions in the previous 1.5 episodes.

So while I may take some comfort from the fact that at least Ramin Djawadi saw JB's relationship for what it was before the end of 8x04, it's also a bit of salt in the wound. Or, at best, a bandaid slapped over a mortal wound that will never heal, not properly.

I found the specifics of this scene troubling for all the reasons in the OP, and for all the things it implied about Brienne's future and her role in the world. No, it wasn't the worst possible ending of all bad endings: she has respect, purpose, and there was some acknowledgement of the JB bond (albeit an acknowledgement that shit on that bond), when I thought they'd just relegate her to mute background bodyguard again. And she didn't end up with T*rmund as a final fuck you to Brienne's integrity as a character, thank the gods.

But D&D as usual have reduced her to what they needed her to be: the unattractive "other woman", only important as a sword and a trigger point for fuckboi Jimmy Lannister (who took over Jaime's body sometime after TBTWP) to sow his wild oats just enough to realize that murderous incest cooch was the only cooch for him. Nevermind Brienne's status as sole heir to her own damn island. Nevermind her future as the Evenstar. Nevermind that she was a highborn lady who publicly shacked up with an infamous man *for whom she'd vouchsafed her life and her honor* for like a month only to have him abandon her for a toxic but more beautiful woman. Nevermind that Brienne's own grief wasn't allowed proper expression other than a barely quivering chin. We never saw her reaction to Jaime's death, or even if Tyrion told her while remembering that he himself had thought Jaime very happy with Brienne in Winterfell, which he already 'kind of forgot' the next episode when he suddenly switched to toxic twincest cheerleader.

No, we just got this one scene for Brienne to literally be the automaton for D&D trying to narratively shorthand both some cleanup from Jaime's character assassination (again, too little too late) and put the final nail in the ~toxic twincest 5evah~ message of the series end.

AND to do all that while making Brienne, whose story is about love as much as honor, consign herself to a loveless life as payment for daring to trespass on D&D's OTP, while occupying the same space and role that her erstwhile lover had before. Carrying his sword, with a goddamn lion watching over her shoulder, writing on the desk where Jaime fucked another woman (gifsets courtesy of JC stans that I wish I could bleach from my brain forever) -- no pretty music could sufficiently wallpaper over the bitterness of that scenario for me.

Gwen's own interpretation of that scene offers little comfort on the JB end. Yes, Brienne is the better person, is moving on with her life after acknowledging once again (like Renley) that she loved someone who didn't love her back or at least not enough to stay with her or even acknowledge there was love between them before he tossed her aside without a backwards glance. And yes, some days I want a moment of respite from this gnawing restless mix of anger and grief, so I'll cling to any shred of JB as a fully requited love story. But really I just can't get over how D&D have tainted or destroyed every possible indication that Brienne's love for Jaime was returned in equal measure, as ruthlessly and thoroughly as show!Joffrey and book!C*rsei rooted out and slaughtered Robert's bastards. Which is only appropriate given D&D's obsession with C*rsei and toxic twincest.

[mahesh-qalaxia]

The case for S8-E7

GoT shot an alternate ending. Note that this leaker has been very accurate in his predictions. From - https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/bkc8xd/compilation_of_spoilers_for_got_episodes_46/

Alternate Ending: (less likely) Tyrion's Trial: (Friki is the only one advocating this) Tyrion's trial in the dragonpit is a major scene and has no Jon, Dany, or dragons. Sir Davos is present not wearing the Hand of the King pin (he wasn't in 8x04 either) along with all 3 stark children. Samwell Tarly, Brienne, Robyn Aryn, Grey Worm, an unknown man wearing golden clothes (likely Dornish), and another unidentified man (an older short bearded one dressed in green) will be there as well. Bran will flash back to season 1 where Tyrion Lannister told Catelyn Stark, "I never bet against my family". Tyrion is filled with anger and resentment against the people of Kings Landing because he saved them against Stannis and they still turned on him. Thinks people of King's Landing deserved it. He saved them and were ungrateful (trial of Joffrey's murder) Will fall to his knees in the middle of the speech dragged down by the weight of his actions. His death was filmed in studio so not sure how he dies.

There were rumors about a surprise episode 7.

https://popculture.com/tv-shows/2019/04/09/game-of-thrones-season-8-secret-7th-episode/

This alternate ending lines up pretty well with my analysis of Episode 6 in my earlier blog posts.

[twdmusicboxmystery]

9x01: Details

Good morning! So today, I'm going over details.

***Once again, spoilers abound for TWD 9x01. I think most people have watched by now, but if you haven’t, don’t click the READ MORE. You’ve been warned!***

Of course we saw a lot of motorcycles at the beginning. We could call that part of the Bike Theory. 

We also naturally saw a lot of horses. I notice the ones between behind and Jesus were both dark and light. Of course, with lots of horses that the characters were writing all throughout.

I want to say a word about the crucifixion walker on the X. First of all, it's on X. (X theory). As I said yesterday, it's one of three Daryl shoots in the head, and because premieres set up for the rest of the season, I think this points to us seeing a crucifixion this year. Maybe not a literal one, but maybe seeing the truth of what happened with Beth.

We also discussed in my group that there are major parallels between this walker and the one outside the moonshine shack that Daryl did target practice on. 

We felt like this was a Beth moment because in Still, she got after him for being flippant about killing walkers. She thought it was more respectful to “just kill it,” than to use it in a way that might be disrespectful to the person the walker once was. We think that's why Daryl shot this walker. In truth, using a walker to keep the crows away from the crops is actually a good idea. But obviously Daryl had an emotional response to that and shot it.

I mentioned this in my analysis of the trailer, but there's also a walker in the city, sitting next to the car, just like Rick and Daryl during their “you’re my brother” convo. Not sure why they put this in here, except perhaps to be a little ironic because Daryl and Rick are at odds right now.

I couldn't help but notice a "flip" theme. When Jerry passes Daryl on the bridge, he says, "Clearing the rally point, dude. See you on the flip.” Later Rick and Michonne pass walkers in the city and then flip around and come back to kill them. The writers talked a lot about a literal “flip the script” kind of thing for this season, which we’re hoping means we’ll see Beth. But I feel like they were incorporating this into the episode as the theme.

 (The walker Michonne kills when she “flips” back around is the one that was sitting by the car, reminiscent of the “you’re my brother” convo. So maybe symbolic of them returning to stuff that happened in S4?)

When they ride into the city, there are some signs behind Daryl. Before I got a chance to look at them very closely, @wdway identified three different signs with Ps on them. 

That mirrors the PPP card Tara found when Heath disappeared in 7x06. 

Because we know the Whisperers are coming this season, I still think this probably points to them. Which would mean that Heath is with the Whisperers. Either way, this foreshadows something. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Inside the Capitol building, I was reminded a lot of the compound Rick and Daryl found Gracie in in S8. Mostly because there was so much white and wood interior. Because it was darker inside than out, it also had the Grady lighting going on. It also reminded me a bit of father Gabriel's church and the Big Spot, mostly because TF sneaked around and explored quietly with guns. It just gave me S4/S5 vibes.

Ways in which this episode parallels 4x01:

1.Them entering the Capitol felt a bit like the Big Spot.

2.When Ezekiel fell through the glass floor, it looked exactly like the walker who came through the roof of the Big Spot. (And combine that with Breaking Glass Theory).

3.The “B” painted over a 30 mile-per-hour side. It felt like Beth and 30 Days Without an Accident.

4.Similar but opposite. In 4x01, there was a herd of walkers overtop of the group (at the Big Spot). In this case, there was a herd of rockers underneath the group. In that case, a walker fell through the roof. In this case the human person fell through the floor. You can see the parallels, but it's also sort of opposite. Which adds to the flip the script theme.

5.What happened with Siddiq felt like an echo of what happened to Zach, just with spiders added. (Another opposite: Siddiq didn’t actually die but Zach did.)

6.We saw wooden barriers with spikes around the communities, just like the prison.

7. In 4x01, Zach saves Bob. Here, Ken saves horse.

8. Villain mentioned but absent. In 4x01, it’s the Gov. Here, it’s Negan. Sort of backs up the theory about how they’ll replay the sequence from 4x08, but this time Negan will take the Gov’s place, Rick may take Hershel’s place, and Beth will take Rick’s place.

9. The Daryl/Carol scene. These have been mentioned by others previous when this scene was released as a sneak peek, but to recap: A) Daryl and Carol hanging out and talking casually. 2) She says “stop.” I think in 4x01 it was him that said it. Either way, the line was said. 3) She calls him Pookie. I don’t think we’ve heard that at all since 4x01.

When they find the seeds, the packet says Rattlesnake Snap Bean. 

It’s a real thing. As far as I can tell, they’re kinda like green beats but longer and thinner with dark streaks that make them look like a rattle snake. (Source) Hence the name. But this is an example of them specifically using that brand. I mean, they could have shown tomato seeds or something, right?  And when was the only time you saw a rattlesnake? In Still.

Michonne looks at a “More Perfect Union” poster, but it’s specifically about the conflicts that led up to the formation of the country. This is obviously a foreshadow of conflicts coming this season, and it probably foreshadows Michonne's leadership.

During the scene where Ezekiel falls through the floor, there's lots of emphasis on people's shoes and boots. It's probably at least in part because they’re showing that the floor is rickety, but we saw a lot of boots in this scene. It jumped out at me.

I said yesterday that I was nervous about Ezekiel maybe dying. After reading spoilers for next week, I'm already less worried. It occurred to me that Zeke falling through the floor COULD foreshadow his death. But the he didn’t actually die here, and I didn’t see any specific death omens. Rather, it was just a close call. If this does foreshadow something, I would say it foreshadows him almost dying, but in the end he’ll survive to make out with Carol for another day. ;D At least, that’s the hope.

Ken said, “Shoeing these horses is a full-time job.” This reminded me of @frangipanilove’s theory about hoofed animals, especially horses, and shoes.

I thought it was really funny when Carol refused the ring. She was being such a girl. At that point. "If you’re gonna propose, do it right! Not on back of a horse!” 😆😆😆

Rosita said something interesting when they discovered the broken bridge. She said, "two other herds merged into Sylvia, so now it's even bigger.” She also said that they took out the walkie repeater on the bridge went out.

It's interesting to me that they're naming herds now. There obviously tracking them and trying to manipulate their pathways. Sylvia means “forest” or “spirit of the wood.”

A repeater for the walkers helps widen the area that can pick up the walkie talkie signal. And that’s been taken out. So their communications have been somewhat compromised. This definitely qualifies as part of the Communications Theme.

After Ken dies, we once again seen a 8:20 clock. Remember that last season, we saw one, particularly in Rick's Old Man Coda. I was originally just going to say that this is still in play, and while we were wrong about it pointing to episode 8x04, obviously this symbolism is still important.

Then I sat and thought about it for a minute, trying to make connections. Remember, Rick's Old Man Coda was actually Carl's vision of the future. In that vision, he saw Negan being a part of the community and making nice with Rick and teen family. I do think they will eventually move toward realizing that vision. The clock could be to show that they will be moving toward Carl's vision as a way of honoring him this season.

But. Remember THIS POST in which M-Nonny discovered that the opposite time (10:10) represents famous people who were shot and killed. So doing 8:20 may represent someone who was shot and lived. And y’all know I think Carl’s death and Beth’s return will be related. And then there was the Phoenix behind Carl. So, I know this isn’t at all definitive, but it's a symbol I'm definitely keeping an eye on.

I thought it was funny during Rick and Daryl’s convo that Daryl said, "We can't make enough corn fuel to run the cars or the trucks." Notice that there was no mention of not being able to run the RVs or his motorcycle. LOL. I get that smaller vehicles take a lot less gas, but it's just a convenient way for the writers to allow him to keep riding his motorcycle, even though there out of fuel. LOL.

The whole charter vs constitution thing was interesting. For the record, a charter is something issued by a sovereign (king or queen, which kind of reinforces the whole 4 Queens theory, btw) while a constitution is written by the people. So for right now, Michonne and Rick are just telling the people how it will be, rather than having them come together and agree on their own rules. Not exactly sure why this was included, but it’s interesting.

With Gregory's death, they might have been specifically doing an antiparallel to Randall in S2. Remember in my Opening Credits Analysis, I noted there was a noose in the barn, and it reminded me of F almost hanging Randall. It also obviously foreshadowed Gregory's death.

I don't disagree with Maggie’s actions (let's face it, the dude really had to go). I do think they’re trying to show that Maggie is becoming a little too dark and brutal for it to be a good thing. So, in S2, TF almost hung Randall, but didn't. Here, Rick and Michonne didn't think Maggie would really hang Gregory, but she did. Maggie is taking a dark stance on things, not unlike Daryl, and it's not entirely healthy.

A few more small details and I’ll shut up for today:

There were tents set up in the Capitol building, which reminded me of the ones on the sky bridge in 5x06.

Oh, and this walker is wearing a sweater that looks just like the one Beth wore in the Bethyl hug scene in 4x01.

There were red umbrellas in the background when the spider walker grabbed Siddiq. Kinda like the red umbrella we saw in 7x16? It’s a Red Object which, once again, probably represent red easter eggs/resurrection.

Right in front of that is a sheet that reminds us of Daryl and Beth putting the tarp over the Rick Bitch walker in 4x12. And it’s yellow! Just so many callbacks.

I haven’t mentioned Xs, but they’re all over: the crucified walker at the beginning. The boat Daryl and Cindy get is resting on wooden Xs. The glass floor has grids, so either boxes or Xs, depending on how you look at them. A vent under one of the Natural History tarp that’s full of Xs. If you just look for them in the episode, you’ll find them everywhere! (X Theory).

I think it's all the details I have for right now. Tomorrow I'll analyze the lyrics of Eldon’s song. Anybody see anything I missed?

[heartlandians]

beth-is-rainpaint replied to your post “Filling Empty Spaces (Amy/Mitch), part 76”

I am constantly in awe of the depth of your character analysis. Amy’s flashback to the opening scenes of 8x01 was brilliantly written; the way you describe her motivations and thought processes makes SO much sense. I was especially struck by the idea that she had to learn how to manage Ahmed’s moods. And the details about her thoughts and feelings in the moments leading up to Ahmed’s kiss are just so heartbreaking. Just--thank you for dealing with Amy's trauma with the depth it deserves.

Thank you! I just felt like it all made sense in the context of the show and the story I’m trying to tell. Like in the show there are little moments that become even more heartbreaking once you see more into Amy’s POV and not just kind of the perspective of the video that started it all (when Amy comes home and sees the pictures on Georgie’s wall, her problems with kissing Ty (in the loft), Ty accusing her of keeping secrets when she’s the one who has actually been more truthful in the past than him (she told about Chase right away, for example) but when she actually is keeping a secret for once it’s because of a sexual assault and because she wants to protect her family, Lou insisting she must have lead Ahmed on when Amy actually stood by her when the thing with Richard happened to Lou (in season 3), Amy being scared with Ahmed when he takes her to see the house (8x04), when Ty wants to take a break and doesn’t listen to what Amy’s trying to say (he wants her to be someone else, not this mess; what does that do to someone, who is trying to recover from a sexual assault, mentally to have someone tell you “you're not who I want” when she’s left alone and the only way to get that person back is to shut up and pretend like nothing happened to you, because no one wants to hear it or see that it changed you), him telling her she’s changed with a displeased tone (and yes, she has and part of it has to do with the trauma she has to carry alone), you know, things like that, for example).

I also feel like all her life, Amy has had to deal with other people’s emotions and she’s often trying to guide them to a better direction, like with clients and Ty, and it’s kind of a role she has taken without really realizing it and taking it with Ahmed made sense in my head (we see glimpses of this in season 7 when she calls him out and then when she tells him to cowboy up). Most men in her life also have a temper and she’s learned to calm them down, maybe it also bleeds into why she’s so good at reading horses because she’s had to learn to read people’s tempers as well. She’s “a fixer”, people depend on her to fix things. Essentially no one wants to hear Amy’s side, they’re all stuck on what they think they saw in that video and thinking “Ahmed had the right to do what he did”. It does something to a person.

For me, what happened in Europe (or this head canon of mine, at least) explains why Amy’s not been the same since season 8, why her fame didn’t really turn into anything, why she closed in so much, why she never really talks about Europe, why Ty has sort of gained more power in their relationship and then also why Amy has this experience of being emotionally abused in a way because she’s too afraid to upset Ty and why she often takes the blame for things. I think Europe and what happened with Ahmed really shaped her and I think no one from her family really realized what she went through and how she came out of it different, not because of she got to taste the life of the rich and famous like they assumed, but because she experienced a sexual assault and was silenced and blamed for it. It's easy for her family to dismiss her experience because it didn't happen under their eyes, it happened somewhere else, and it happened under circumstances they have no idea about. They only see Ahmed, money and fame, when it's really all about power and isolation.

I’d like to think that if season 8 happened now, with the #MeToo and everything being more topical, the response to it would have been different. Back then, most people blamed Amy and didn’t see her POV. Or at least it happening now would reveal who really gets what the victims of sexual abuse have gone through, because I still see people blaming Amy for leading Ahmed on at FF.net (”she’s damaged goods”, “what a slut”), which of course I expected, but it’s still sad. After all these conversations in the public, victims are still blamed. The abusers get away with it all. It’s so messed up.

// Edit: Also, I’m interested in the parallels with Georgie’s homecoming this season; she got a bit of taste of fame and fortunate as well but her homecoming was very casual and she seems very grounded despite her circumstances last season (pushing herself to the limit). I feel sorry Amy’s experience was ruined for her and her homecoming was so horrible it left her traumatized and no one even cares.

[adecila]

Game of Thrones - 8x03 preview analysis + speculation

Or the moment I realise I am blind as a bat and I need glasses.

Busy week, but hey we’re still 3 days away from what has been advertised as an episode that will kill us. At a whoopin’ 80 (ish; 82 according to some websites, 79 according to others so I’ll just say 80) minutes and advertised as the longest battle in television (surpassing LoTR) I am ready to die! 

Wait wait does this mean it will be 80 minutes of stress? 80 minutes of fighting?  80 minutes of me yelling at the screen JON NO and KHALESSI NO until my throat is sore and I barely have any voice left? Yeah, probably.

Anyway- this is probably more on the speculation and prediction side since we don’t have that much to go off of…. 

Unlike the preview / promo / trailer –whatever you want to call it– we got for episode 2, episode 3 gave us a big fat nothing. Mhm, basically. 

But first the famous 6 photos EW gave us: (also a big pile of nothing!)

S.ansa looking worried, sitting, maybe glossy eyed - interior? exterior? Who the hell knows. Technically, as per episode 2 S.ansa is to stay in the crypts with the other women and children.

Ser Brienne of Tarth and Jaime fookin’ Lannister and some Knights of the Vale (noice shields) - this looks like an actual screengrab from the episode, and from their faces something it’s INCOMING. I am trying not to read too much into it, but tbh their faces can be just from seeing the huge ass army coming at them. 

Jonno mah man, my stupid son (and I say this with all the love in my heart) lookin’ sweaty, and rough and shooketh and I cannot help but to think something BIG is happening. Could it be something as simple as coming face to face again with our main boss the Night King himself? Could it be another “bitch watch me use your fallen men against you” moment? Could it be someone he cares dying in front of him? Could it be the dead surrounding them? Honestly guys this preview is giving me nothing, except anxiety. There’s some fire burning behind him, it can be dragon fire or it can just be fire they made in order to keep the dead at bay (as seen in the next pic). It is snowing and we can see fire behind him. Also also this pic clearly proves that HBO intentionally darkened the trailer since in the trailer we see the clip with Jonno running and this pic is from that exact scene. Gosh, his face tho - LISTEN he looks terrified. 

Jonerys overlooking Winterfell, but from the North-West side? So clearly at one point in the battle they get to this vantage point so they can see better. I am assuming that it’s quite early into the episode, since Jon still has his furs on, whereas in the previous photo he had no cloak and looked like he had already fought for some time; we see the forces spread out exactly like on the map (as I explained it in my 8x02 analysis when the war council happened), and oh my it looks glorious. We also see some fire strategically lit and it looks beautiful. Now BURN IT TO THE GROUND. Jk but also not jk; asoiaf theories on how Winterfell is meant to be destroyed at one point in the story are a-plenty ! Last night @muttpeeta asked me if I could see the dead in this pic and I said bitch I can’t see shit. I guess in the right down corner are just trees, so maybe the dead are in the trees (lmao just imagined them in the trees). On the other hand, @thescarletgarden1990 said she could maaaaybe see something in the left dark corner… gurl, I still can’t see shit. Uff notice how Jon x Dany suddenly have a space in between them? Ah, remember when we had nice things like when they had no idea what “personal space” meant? Hang onto your hats for the angst, bitches.

S.ansa x Arya on the battlements. Is it just me or is there something like a bar or blade or maybe a bow on Arya’s left side, almost resting on her shoulder? The spear Gendry made her? Maybe it’s an optical illusion. Also seems pre-battle, also seems quite early in the episode, when we have still time for dialogue. Hmm.. maybe that first S.ansa pic is in the same scene, but before? S.ansa looks a bit worried and shit I would be too. Scratch that, I think the first S.ansa pic is after the discussion with Arya. 

Tyrion x Varys in the crypts, chatting to kill time whilst everyone else is getting killed. I also expect this to be in the very first part of the episode. 

See, exactly what I said, they gave us something without giving us anything.

Now, onto the preview:

“The most heroic thing we can do now is look the truth in the face” - voiceover by S.ansa, as the screen flashes to: the troops, Grey Worm, Jonerys at the vantage point, Sam, S.ansa x Arya on battlements, Davos on battlements, women x children x Varys x Tyrion in the crypts, Jorah. Interesting line though, what truth is she talking about? Jon’s parents? I doubt. The fact that the dead actually exist? Remember when I said S.ansa doesn’t seem to believe Jon much?…

“The Night King is comin” - voiceover by Jon - we see Jon scared shitless, (from the photo we also got), the army in position, Arya running (from the trailer), Unsullied marching in formation, Beric x the Hound (INSIDE WF? WHAT???), Dany on Drogon in a blizzard, more Unsullied, Theon with a bow with fire in the Godswood, Jonno pulling out Longclaw in the Godswood looking a bit too sad/disturbed/scared??? 

Jonerys at the vantage point, face to face, Dany saying to Jon “The dead are already here”, she looks angry, Jon looks … emo :D 

Ser Brienne yelling to her flank “Stand your ground”

Now, let me regroup all my thoughts now that I made a general break down of the photos and the actual preview, let’s discuss what I think it will happen. This time I am heavily relying on speculation since tbh we don’t have much to go off.

About Jonerys:

Yeah, I don’t think they are just going to get over the parentage reveal that fast. My guess, based on how 8x02 ended and on the way Dany says “The dead are already here” is that there is going to be some tension. A lot of it. My best guess? the conflict isn’t going to be solved until 8x04 at the earliest. 

I told @smoldany I am thinking Jon wants to stick to the plan (contrary to what he did in BoB) and Dany will maybe see her troops getting smashed. As I mentioned, they make the vanguard so they will get hit the most. I imagine Dany is still shook from the reveal and when Jon will tell her to stick to the plan, she will go KHALESSI YES and mount on Drogon and go fuck up some wights and WW and protect her people because that’s what she does. Maybe Jon tells her something along the “The NK isn’t here” and she replies that exact phrase we hear in the preview. 

I am expecting some sort of rift between them mid battle. I know, I have mentioned it, but that’s what happens when person A and B go into a fight for life while they are also fighting. 

I mentioned in an ask how we will get a parallel to the scene beyond the wall where Jon falls into ice water in front of Dany. I am expecting something like this to happen, but reversed. This time it will be Dany falling and Jon running, watching something in horror. Maybe she falls off Drogon, maybe she falls with Drogon, but something happens, because I swear that Jon pic where he looks horrified it’s all I can think of. Plus! We haven’t seen Dany in armour yet! What if the Red/Black Dragonstone dress from the teaser is actually her armour? Maybe she gets injured and they finally decide she should get armour. Why? Well, I cannot stop thinking of what Tyrion said in season 7, that it only takes a well shot arrow for it to be all over. I also think that if this isn’t the moment she gets injured on Drogon, it will come later, probably in 8x05. 

Plus, c’mon, they have to make us think (even for a few minutes) for maximum angst ™ that one of the two heroes may die. 

If we get Jon carrying Dany to safety I will be the happiest. 

If what I said happens, we also have all the chances of getting the I THOUGHT I LOST YOU kiss I keep mentioning. D&D do not fuck this up for me. 

The Crypts or “sure, the Lich Night King is coming, you know what would be a good idea? To go sit in the motherfucking crypts where the motherfucking dead are kept.” 

Look. Do I believe the dead will rise in the crypts? Mmmmm not really. Except maybe Rickon, because he is the freshest dead person to be put here. There is a lot of foreshadowing in the books that the dead in the crypts may rise in a form or another, but… I don’t think it will happen in the show. 

However! Since the crypts have been mentioned a lot, I am inclined to thing something BIG will happen. My best bet? The dead push through the gates and the Mormont forces and they make it to the crypts. AHA but you will say - “UMMM aLiCe but the people are then sitting ducks” - well, not necessarily. There are a lot of secret passages in Winterfell, if you remember, that’s how Bran escaped ! So if the dead are to invade the crypts, I am guessing at least some of the people will flee through the tunnels. We just have too many big characters there for them to die so soon, at least Tyrion. Let’s be real, Tyrion won’t die now. He has to flee somehow. 

Winter FELL

I told my friend @tomakeitbeautifultolive once that I thought the fight for Winterfell is doomed from the start. Imo, this keep is meant to fall, and the NK will have a victory here. 

While we’re on the subject of Winterfell, lemme bring up my theory that it will be a sort of Culling of Stratholme situation from WoW. In case you’re interested, click on that link, the lore is so rich in this game, but I digress. I think the bittersweet part if they don’t get slammed and pushed to retreat or die, it will be a sort of decision - aka if we don’t burn as much as the fallen as we can then we are just adding more forces to the AoTD. So… I am thinking there will be a point where the dead are clearly winning and they cannot take any more chances, so they burn as much as they can, living and dead, especially inside of WInterfell. Or maybe I am just too MUCH :D

Regardless if Winterfell is being sacrificed or not, our heroes will be forced to retreat. Because if you think the NK is going to be defeated in episode 3/6 …..

Where the fuck is the Night King then?

Funny how we haven’t seen the NK in the trailer, nor in the preview for this episode, nor at the end of episode 2 - we just saw the WW on their horses.

Will he even be at WF? Idk man their plan looks pretty dumb. And as far as I remember, the NK could see Bran. The NK knew Dany was coming and was prepared with spears for dragons (and chains!). So why the fuck would he not be able to see this shitty ass plan??? 

I told some of my friends that I think the NK will fool them, send his forces to WF while he will either stay on the sides for as much as he can in order to bait Dany and/or Jon… (so he will swoop in let’s say mid battle - maybe that’s why we see Dany on Drogon in a blizzard, or idk, we saw the weather change also when WW are present, so you never know) or go to the Isle of Faces because I think he may want to destroy some big important weirdwood tree… or maybe I am thinking again too much about WoW and I am getting Teldrassil vibes 

Bran Starkashian waiting for his date with the NK under the weridwood tree

Uff I think this is the part of the plan that will backfire the most

I am 99% sure this is where Theon dies, while defending Bran because the dead are gonna come to the Godswood for Bran’s sexy ass

I told @tomakeitbeautifultolive that Jonno looks too distressed and oddly calm when he is drawing Longclaw and he looks to also be in the Godswood - oh gosh what if he mercy kills someone ? Oh gosh what if it’s Theon… or Rickon…

But Alice, what about Cersei and her GC? And Bronn?

I honestly don’t know. Weird how Cersei seems to have a plan in place. So what happened to Euron after ep 1? Did he get mad when Yara got rescued? Is the GC just gonna sit in KL and wait for an attack? Are they marching North? Are they gonna also arrive in WF while the dead are there? 

I just want to mention that in the trailer, when Arya does her spear thingy, it seems there is blood spatter from one of the people she hits… “but wights don’t bleed, Alice,” - I hear you say. Exactly, buddy. EXACTLY. So who the hell is Arya killing? just something to keep in mind. 

Last thoughts: 

Jorah will die - as Theon, his arc is fulfilled, and especially after his heart to heart with Dany in 8x02 I am 99% sure he dies. 

Grey also may die. Listen, I was surprised he made it alive out of Casterly Rock. I don’t think he will get to take Missandei to Naath…

I’m thinking 5-ish minutes of intro + 60 ish of action + the rest is the retreat

The jonerys conflict will most likely continue into 8x04, where it may get solved - if not, 8x05 for the makeup sex.

Beric dies; either Podrick or Jaime die, but not both

Edd dies

ALIVE: The Starks + Gendry + Dadvos + Missandei + Lyanna Mormont + the Hound + Sam + Gilly + Little Sam + Brienne + Ghost + Tormund

I am still holding off for Nymeria and her pack! 

Bottom line is, I am pumped for this episode, it is gonna hurt as hell, so yeah! Asks and dms are open, as usual, so feel free to ask questions if there is something I missed. See you on Sunday! Bring wine and food! 

[nomnomzombies]

8x04, Identity and Accountability

> Part 2 <

This started off as me writing a general analysis of last night’s episode but it got really long, really quickly and I haven’t even talked about what I really wanted to talk about. So.... Yeah, here’s my ted talk, and if you guys think I should type up and post the rest of it (themes being Narrative Symmetry/Full Circle and the Sansa/Dan dynamic) let me know! Otherwise, here’s two of four.... Identity and Accountability in relation to Jon, Dan, Cersei, and Missandei. 

Wolf and Dragon symbolism and the theme of Identity

GHOST IS ALIVE!! We kinda knew that from the previews. And his role is just as minuscule as the rest of the season. After everything, Ghost looks like he’s in rough shape.... cut and bruised, missing an ear. And Jon releases Ghost without so much as a fucking good boy goodbye (still not fucking over it. WORST DOG DAD EVER), saying that “he belongs in the North.” We know that the direwolves are direct symbol of their respective owners’ Stark identities, and the direwolves have had deep symbolism in respect to their fates and the fates of their owners. Ghost’s sorry state after the battle shows the state of Jon’s security in his identity. Ghost is alive, Jon is still a Stark, but he’s grappling with the RLJ reveal and his relationship to his Stark identity. Rhaegal is the embodiment of his Targaryen ancestry, and is in sorry shape after the battle as well. Considering both of these animals are directly tied to Jon, Rhaegal not being given time to heal after the battle (because of Dan) may also be an allusion to Dan being relentless about Jon’s heritage and unwilling to compromise. Jon releasing Ghost to go north with Tormund while following Dan south, along with Rhaegal, may seem like he’s choosing his Targaryen heritage over his Stark upbringing, but it’s important to note, however, that Jon is not riding Rhaegal. He mentions that Rhaegal is injured and isn’t riding him to give him a break. There’s distance between him and his Targaryen heritage, and there’s distance between him and Dan following RLJ and “begging for secrecy.” Instead, he’s firmly planted on the ground with the tired and wounded Northern troops who are following him south.  

Dan, on the other hand, is still riding Drogon even though he was assaulted by wights. 

Ever since it was established that she could ride a dragon rather than a horse, she’s opted to (with the exception of when she came to Winterfell with Jon). Her relationship to the dragons has always been a symbol of her power. Not only does she draw her power and confidence from them, but the simple fact of her riding a fucking dragon elevates her to a higher status in the eyes of her subjects. Eerily similar to James Cameron’s Avatar (right down to mighty whitey and the white saviour trope), Jake Sully becomes the leader of the Na’vi against the militarized industrial complex by harnessing toruk and becoming the legendary Toruk Makto (toruk rider). Dan becomes the leader of the Dothraki horselords by overthrowing the current seats of power and riding her mount into battle (dragon rider), leading the charge against her enemies. She garnered the Unsullied by leveraging her dragons value before sacking Astapor. Much like Cersei has connected the throne and her ego as symbols of self-worth, as has Dan connected the symbol of “the dragon” as representations of hers. This could be the reason that the s8 marketing has melded Drogon and the throne together as one image. Both are the battling queens’ symbols of power and identity. This could also be alluding to the fact that Dan has completely lost sight of her initial goals in life and has melded the two (dragon, throne) in her mind in terms of her identity. Many people believe that the season 8 poster is a breadcrumb to something as straightforward as “Dany will win the throne” or “Drogon will melt the throne,” but considering the last season’s poster was an image of the Night King, and the entire season was in preparation for the threat of the AotD, I think it’s far more likely that the poster symbolized that this season’s biggest threat is going to be Dany’s ambition for the throne. She is, after all, “the last dragon,” in that Jon and Gendry are two others with Targaryen ancestry but Dan is the last full-blooded Targaryen (Interestingly, Dan is the great-great-granddaughter of Aegon V Targaryen, which puts her at the same distance from Aegon V as Gendry. This would mean that she’s behind both Jon and Gendry for the throne, considering the Targaryens were usurped and legitimizing Gendry would make him Heir to Robert’s throne, and then Jon, and then Daenerys).  

Daenerys’ decision to not only march south on the metaphorical backs of a compromised host, but on the literal back of her wounded dragon is very telling of her current mental and emotional state following the RLJ parentage reveal. Which leads me to my next overarching theme of the episode:

Actions Finally have Consequences Again

People have said for a long time that the allure of Game of Thrones is that “it’s so realistic.” And, on a surface level, it’s easy to agree with it for a variety of reasons, but once you start to really pick it apart, the arguments don’t really hold up in court. While ASoIaF is incredibly rooted in real-world history, Game of Thrones has become untethered from this sense of reality. I think that a huge part of the story that the writers have lost sight of is accountability—and in this episode, we’re finally starting to see, once again, that even in this high fantasy actions still have consequences. Ned made the decision to confront Cersei about her childrens’ legitimacy out of honor and respect, while incredibly well-intended, he failed to follow through and ended up beheaded. Robb made the decision to break an oath and married for love, and he lead thousands of men into their graves for it. Theon chooses to betray the Starks and was tortured in mind, body, and soul. Jon brings the free folk south of the wall and is faced with a mutiny. Stannis burns his daughter at the stake and half of his host deserts. Cersei elevates the High Sparrow and suddenly reaps half of her life’s worth of sowing. 

While Dan managed to make it through her entire Mereen arc escaping accountability for her actions, those sown seeds are making for an awful harvest. She was able to leverage power and ruthlessness to bulldoze those cities into the ground, and maneuvered her way into her crown by inserting herself into the master/slave dynamic, but she’s stagnating because the game in Westeros is not one where she can just flip the table; in order to change the system you must first infiltrate it. Daenerys believes that she can come over, touting “birthright” from a monarch that was overthrown, and show people that she’s “The Liberator” the “Breaker of Chains.” But with neither chains to break nor people to liberate... how do you get these people to love you..?  

Doesn’t matter to Dan! Much like Cersei, she’s happy as long as they fear her;

 as seen with the burning of the Tarleys (Randyll definitely had it coming, but Dickon?) and the less than warm welcome in the North (and the return of the “saviour” complex).

Speaking of the Tarleys.... I bet Dan’s wishing she’d had a hostage to trade for Missandei. While it’s hard to say if the execution of Mis was unavoidable, it cannot be ignored that Dan declared no quarter after the Loot Train Attack and chose to burn Cersei’s new Warden of the South and his heir. So even if Missandei’s beheading was more psychological warfare than political, the importance of taking at least one Tarley hostage is paramount. This brings us back to The War of the Five Kings, and the consequences of Joffrey’s decision to behead Ned. There’s parallels on both sides, now, because executing Missandei was likely just as foolhardy as executing Ned since we know how important she is to Dan. Cersei, however, probably saw Missandei as little more than a scribe... just one of Dan’s puzzle pieces and as expendable as the Tarley’s were to her. 

As a result, the first person to be liberated by the Breaker of Chains has just died in chains. 

Missandei’s last words are a call back to Olenna Tyrell’s “You are a dragon, so be a dragon,” because Mis essentially prods Dan to “burn it all down” in one word. Which brings up an interesting point, in that Missandei gives awful advice. Let’s not forget that Mis was the one who suggested that Daenerys start ignoring her counsellors all the way back in season 4—and it parallels Olenna nicely because neither Mis nor Olenna were concerned with the outcomes of “burning it all down.” Both allied themselves with Dan because they saw that brutality as a very satisfying route to retribution for their pain. Dany indiscriminately burns and crucifies everyone but the slaves. It’s not hard to see why Mis and Olenna are attracted to her brand of power, especially when neither of them are going to have to face the consequences of Daenerys’ actions. Olenna’s already lost everything, and Missandei already knew she was getting her head cut off. So why not tell the dragon lady to burn it all down?