#gwen kelly

[lenetaylor]

The Kellys - Paul McCartney's domestics

George and Gwen Kelly were employed by Paul McCartney for about a year (1966) at his house at Cavendish. The circumstances of their leaving are somewhat mysterious. Here's all the information on them that I could gather from public sources.

Paul bought the house at 7 Cavendish Ave on 13 April 1965 for £40,000. He then spent about £20,000 to renovate and redecorate, finally moving (from the Ashers' house on Wimpole Street) in March 1966. The house had (has) a basement, which served as living quarters for servants, a ground floor, and two floors above it. On the ground floor Paul installed an open-plan kitchen and a formal dining room.

In Paul McCartney: The Life by Philip Norman (2016), he writes: "Paul’s brief to the Adamses [the designers] was the strangest they’d ever received, or ever would again; he said he wanted the kind of house where a smell of cabbage floated up from the basement...In fact, the house had no basement from which cosy cabbage-smells could waft to its upper storeys." 100% wrong: The house does have a basement, and you can see the windows to the basement in some photos. This was a standard design for houses at the time, with the main kitchen in the basement along with quarters for some of the staff. This is where the Kellys lived.

Even though he gets that wrong, we'll continue with Norman's book:

In those same Sunday colour supplements one could read how, if traditional domestic servants might have no place in the egalitarian Sixties, wealthy young bachelors often employed a live-in married couple, usually Spanish, the husband combining the roles of butler and chauffeur, the wife cooking and keeping house. Paul started out at 7 Cavendish Avenue with just such a couple, albeit Irish rather than Spanish and with the reassuring Liverpool-echoey name of Kelly. When he hired them, he gave warning that his household would be anything but a conventional one, and defined their main role as just ‘to fit in’. He soon discovered the drawback in having domestic servants, as noted by writers like Harold Nicolson back in the Victorian country house era: there are always people standing around, eavesdropping on your conversations, obliging you to shut the toilet door (all the more irksome if you’re fond of sitting there, playing guitar) and generally behave as if you’re in an hotel rather than at home. Mr Kelly, evidently seeing himself as Jeeves to Paul’s Bertie Wooster, would ceremonially lay out his young master’s clothes for the day ahead until firmly dissuaded. Pop star pals who stayed overnight, and expected to be left comatose until after noon, would instead be briskly roused by Mr Kelly with early morning tea. On the big dining-room table, he placed a display of silverware whose highly-polished formality was too much even for Paul; to annoy them, he’d take out the ornate silver cruet and put a cheap plastic one in its place.

The "to fit in" quote is from a short piece that appeared in the London Sunday Times on September 18 1966, by Hunter Davies, titled "ATTICVS: All Paul":

Paul McCartney was in his new mansion in St. John's Wood. He lives alone. A Mr. and Mrs. Kelly look after him. Nothing so formal as a housekeeper and butler. Their job, he says, is just to fit in.

Barry Miles, in Many Years From Now (1997), picks up the silver cruet story:

There was a large dining table with an antique lace tablecloth, which was always beautifully set with all the appropriate cutlery, but it had a plastic salt cellar and pepper shaker in the centre. Paul owned silver ones but insisted on using the cheap ones, mainly to annoy the housekeeper, Mrs Kelly, and her husband, who had previously worked for gentry and let it be known, not very subtly, that they regarded their new position as a step down in the world. The husband had initially attempted to continue his role as gentleman's gentleman by laying out Paul's clothes each morning until Paul made it abundantly clear that this was not required. Every time they set the table the silver cruet was laid and each time Paul replaced it with the plastic one. Paul fired them for selling their story to an Australian magazine... “I had this live-in couple called the Kellys who would wake you up early in the morning like everything was just going normally and we had just stayed up all night and it was like, 'Go away please!'”

Nicholas Schaffner's book The Beatles Forever (1977) has this information from George Kelly:

George Kelly, a veteran of 16 years of service in the Royal Army who went on to become butler and chauffeur at some of Britain’s most stately homes before being hired by Paul McCartney in 1966, recalls with distaste in his memoirs having to bring morning tea for two to Paul’s bedroom when Jane was away, and having to endure the sight of the Beatle stubbing out ciggies on his silver Ivor Novello awards. But nothing seems to have unhinged Kelly more that the time he accidentally stumbled in on “one of the most bizarre scenes I have ever witnessed. There, in front of the television set, were the highest-paid pop group in the world and their manager, bowing down and salamming, chanting and dancing with one another!” Kelly recalls making his way through the billowing incense and flashing colored strobelights to give Paul a message, but “nobody took the slightest notice of me. They were all on their own little clouds. So as the Eastern music…grew louder, I just left the room quietly.” Shortly afterward, the butler handed in his notice, but not before receiving lectures from his employer about the benefits of LSD: “Your whole life flashes before you and you realize all the mistakes you have made.” (p. 76)

Schaffner says this is from Kelly's "memoirs", but I can't find any evidence of these memoirs being published. It's possible Schaffner had access to an unpublished manuscript; the quotes certainly read like something written, not an interview.

In addition to serving morning tea at noon and whatever else they were doing, they had to deal with the endless stream of fans. At Meet the Beatles For Real, Carol Bedford talks about visiting London in the summer of 1966:

“I couldn't have been there for more than two minutes when Mr. Kelly, Paul's gardener, came out screaming and waving a hoe at me. He said that Paul had just come in at 3 a.m. and needed rest. I looked up to see the curtains being rustled on the middle window of the second floor. Mrs. Kelly came out, and when asked if Paul and Jane were married, she answered, "No, of course not! That's a bunch of rubbish!"

(Lizzie Bravo added, "Funny, I remember her husband, Mr. Kelly, we called him "Stick" and he was pretty nasty but I don't remember her...")

So did they quit, or were they fired? They were gone by the end of January 1967. Here's an article published January 12, 1967 that ran in several American newspapers; this was titled "They’ve Had Enough of That Job, Thank You":

George and Gwen Kelly, who were Beatle Paul McCartney’s chauffeur and housekeeper until they quit recently, read a newspaper ad saying a Mr. Brown needed a chauffeur and housekeeper. George telephoned the employment agency that had advertised, said he and wife might be interested and asked for details. “Yes,” said the voice on the telephone. “Your prospective employer lives in St. John’s Wood—” “Did you say St. John’s Wood? We know the area very well. We’ve got friends there. We used to work in St. John’s Wood.” “And the wages are good,” said the agency man. “Go on, please,” said George. “There’ll be lots of entertaining. You will see a lot of interesting people.” “Tell me,” said George, “what sort of a chap is Mr. Brown?” There was a long pause. Then in a low, confidential voice, the agency man said: “Now, you must promise not to say anything, but Mr. Brown is really Paul McCartney—one of the Beatles, you know.” “I know,” said George. “Thank you for your trouble in answering my questions.” “When will you be coming in for an interview?” asked the agency man as George hung up. When the Kellys left McCartney, George said he and his wife thought they would be happier working for someone with more regular hours.

(They're not wrong!)

Back to Norman:

Paul’s live-in domestic couple, the Kellys, had left his employment in January 1967, after Mrs Kelly talked out of turn to an Australian newspaper, though he still hand-wrote her a reference calling her ‘efficient and trustworthy’. After trying another couple, the Millses, he found Rose Martin (no relation to George), an unflappable, unshockable woman who would serve him with irreproachable loyalty and discretion for many years to come. However, Rose was fiercely loyal to Jane, so treated Maggie with barely restrained hostility.

And back to Miles:

Paul asked his housekeepers, the Kellys, to leave after he found that they had written an article about his home life for an Australian magazine. Paul: “Mr and Mrs Kelly are looking for another place and I’m getting another couple to replace them. There have been disagreements over the running of the household. I haven’t asked them to leave instantly because that would be unreasonable.” They were replaced by Mr and Mrs Mills. (“She still hasn’t given me a tune yet,” quipped Paul, referring to popular pianist Mrs Mills.)

And then we have Mike McCartney, who has a different story - here he's talking about his photo of Paul's smashed-up face:

The fab pic was eventually stolen from Cave Avenue by a ‘butler’ and sold to an Italian mag to illustrate ‘wild Beatle drug parties in swinging London’.

(I'm pretty sure he's conflating stories here - I don't remember reading anywhere else that his photo was stolen)

The only contemporary account of their departure I can find in the newspapers is from The Daily Mirror on January 6, 1967.

Beatle’s Staff Driven Out By His Fans By Kenelm Jenour

The married couple who act as housekeeper and chauffeur to Beatle Paul McCartney have given him their notices. The reason: They could not stand the fans any more. The couple, George and Gwen Kelly, have looked after Paul at his £40,000 London home behind Lord’s cricket ground since he moved in almost a year ago. Last night, while Paul was recording with John, George, and Ringo, Mr. Kelly told me: “Paul has been a good boss. But the fans have been a terrible strain. “In fact sometimes it’s been murder. We’ve had no private life at all. “Sometimes we can’t even get into the house because of fans crowding around outside. And we get phone calls from all over the world at all hours of the night.” The Kellys, both aged 40, told Paul on Wednesday of their decision to quit. But they did not set a date for leaving. “We don’t want to leave him in the lurch,” said Gwen in their basement flat at Paul’s home. “We will probably go in four or five weeks.” Engaged Gwen, who once worked with her husband for the Lord Lieutenant of Monmouthshire, went on: “We didn’t even know Paul was a Beatle when we came here. All we knew was that we had been engaged by a Mr. Paul McCartney. “And that’s what we have always called him - ‘Mr. McCartney’ or ‘Sir.” He hates any familiarity.” One thing the Kellys stressed: They are not leaving Paul, the only bachelor Beatle because he wants to get married. “As far as we know - and we probably know him as well as anyone - he has no immediate plans to marry,” said George.

The image at the top of this post is Paul's letter of recommendation for Gwen Kelly, which was sold at auction in 1993 for £250, according to The Paul McCartney Encyclopedia by Bill Harry (2003). It seems to have been sold through Tracks Ltd. in the UK. Here's the description:

A one-page job reference for a housekeeper, Mrs. G. Kelly, who Paul McCartney employed for a brief period in the mid-sixties in his home in Cavendish Avenue, London. Mrs. Kelly resigned as housekeeper due to differences with Paul about the running of the home. The reference dates to 1967. It reads, "Mrs G Kelly, Mrs Kelly worked for me and was a very capable and trustworthy housekeeper. She is an excellent cook and generally very efficient. Paul McCartney". It comes with four black & white modern prints of photographs of Paul McCartney's home which were formerly the property of Mrs. Kelly, (3 of these depict the housekeeper on the forecourt of the house) an original newspaper clipping relating to her resignation and a modern print out of another newspaper cutting. Three of the photographs measure 9cm x 9cm (3.5 inches x 3.5 inches), the fourth measures 10.5cm x 8.5cm (4.25 inches x 3.25 inches). The photographs are not being sold with copyright. The reference letter measures 20cm x 25cm (8 inches x 10 inches). It has tears and tape stains on the folds. The condition of the letter is fair.

Back to Norman:

Paul’s live-in domestic couple, the Kellys, had left his employment in January 1967, after Mrs Kelly talked out of turn to an Australian newspaper, though he still hand-wrote her a reference calling her ‘efficient and trustworthy’. After trying another couple, the Millses, he found Rose Martin (no relation to George), an unflappable, unshockable woman who would serve him with irreproachable loyalty and discretion for many years to come. However, Rose was fiercely loyal to Jane, so treated Maggie with barely restrained hostility.

I have spent considerable time searching online for "the Australian newspaper/magazine" that the Kellys supposedly sold their story to, but I can't find anything at all. Three possibilities:

The story was published in a small paper or magazine but isn't available online or in an archive

They talked to an Australian reporter but the story was never published, perhaps due to pressure from Beatle management (Murdoch involvement? He owned many newspapers in Australia at that time)

It was a rumor that got published as truth and keeps getting recycled; they really left because the situation was intolerable

I can't find any more information about what happened to the Kellys after they left Cavendish. I would love to know the end of their story!

(Honestly, being Paul's housekeeper in 1966 sounds like the worst job in the world.)

[potato-lord-but-not]

mbanus protocol characters….. magnus protocol characters save me….

[lostlavenderer]

I love Sam as our protag and I appreciate Lena as our new ominous office manager but sorry neither of them stand a chance. that entire office is literally just 'Alice Dyer and people who are irrevocably undeniably intensely in love with Alice Dyer' with not even a single exception

[listography]

THE YEAR IS 2000

[autismprotocol]

TMAG Theory Board Update (EP 11-12)

Hi guys sorry about the late posting I've just started a new quarter of college and its been pretty hectic. also got into my school design BFA program so pretty stoked about that! Anyways lets get into the Episode Breakdowns because even though not a lot of lore related things happened I still have a lot to talk about

For the breakdown I'll separate each by episode in sequential order

What Happened in Episode 11: Marked

Celias Rude Awakening- we jump right into the weirdness straight away with Celia waking up on the side of the interstate. she indicates that this is not a weird occurrence and ends the scene by telling someone named Jack that she's "on her way." If you remember episode 8 after Celia and Sam talk to Gerry and Gertrude, she mentions stuff about wanting help with her own mystery. When Sam asks about it she says she's looking into Time travel, other dimentions and teleportation. Many people have theorized that maybe Celia is just a super heavy sleepwalker, but I think the she teleports random places out of nowhere. This could be a side effect of her reality hopping if this Celia is originally from The archives universe.

As for the identity of Jack I'm not quite sure about that yet. I cross referenced the name Jack with past episodes of TMA. The only thing that came up was Jack Barnabas from the statement about dating Agnes Montague (aka an avatar of the desolation and Jesus-like figure for the cult of the lightless flame) So Unless Celia is secretly Agnes of Agnes reincarnated , I can't find any way to link Barnabas to Celia. (if anyone has a theory feel free to send it my way.)

Sam Lore- this one is pretty minor story-wise but I thought it was interesting. Before the statement for the episode is presented we get some classic Sam and Alice Banter ™ most of it is pretty lighthearted but I noticed Sam mention something that could indicate he might be an amputee.

These could not mean anything and I find it weird that it hasn't been mentioned until now but thought it was kind of cool and I will probably be drawing sam with a prothetic leg in the future cause I really like this head-canon. It also begs to question if he is missing a leg. it might have anything to do with his past as a Magnus institute test subject but then again could just be a fun character detail added by Jonny and/or Alex .

The Statement- Getting into the statement we get another Ink5oul appearance. Also possible Ink5oul identifying as she/they. (and lets be honest being a fear avatar is pretty non binary core). I found this Episode gave me a feeling of a hybrid between the Vast, Buried and the Flesh some people are theorizing that is might be a new entity called the Deep but I think that the fear of the ocean could easily apply to the vast or buried. Not much to say about this story though pretty standard Magnus horror that also gave us a hint to what Ink5oul's goal could be/which entity they serve.

Post Bonzo- Gwen has a debrief with Lena after her first Externals Liason assignment and her meeting with Mr. Bonzo. Undoubtedly Gwen is still pretty shaken from her encounter, even arriving late to work due to sleeplessness. Gwen is able to ask Lena a few questions mainly she wanted to know who's name was written on the letter given to Bonzo

Lena is largely unhelpful but tells Gwen she should have worked it out by now and if not to pay close attention to the case load for the next couple of days. before the latest episode my guess was Klaus because that is the only person mentioned so far that the OIAR intends to kill. but more on that later

Marked- Now were getting to my favorite thing about this episode. This episode title can have two meanings. The first is the more literal interpretation. Tattoos are marking of the body and the case this episode was all about tattoos so easily a good name would be marked. But I believe this is a red herring meant to misguide listeners who have not consumed all 200 episodes of TMA because if you know the world of Magnus Archives the term Marked takes on a entirely different meaning.

In TMA the term marked is used to indicate that somebody has been influenced by one or more or the fears and are one their way to becoming an Avatar. I think this could be a coded way to tell the audience someone in the OIAR has been marked. I have two potential candidates

Alice Dyer- Alice has been having dreams about the Institute after her and Sam's adventure into the ruins. also she mentions feeling like someone's watching her (common to people influenced or fed upon by the Ceaseless Watcher/The Eye) My guess if she is marked it would be by the Eye.

Gwendolyn Bouchard: Probably the most likely culprit. The main way an entitly tends to mark people is through encounters with other avatars. Gwen has just had an encounter with Mr Bonzo last episode who I strongly believe must be an avatar of some sort.

What Happened in Episode 12: Getting Off

Aww Sam!!- Sam asked Celia out and it was adorably awkward. not much to say I just loved this interaction and I'm longing for a new Magnus brand office romance hopefully is wont be an agonizing slowburn that ends tragically like a certain pair of morons from Archives (I love you Jon and Martin but Jesus christ)

It's Bonzo time bitches!!- Probably one of the most gruesome Magnus statement I've ever listened to (good work Alex) Mr Bonzo completely annihilated some poor dude at his bachelor party. Based on the date of the Incident the I can confidently say that whoever Baz (the groom) was he was our mystery person the OIAR sent Mr Bonzo to get rid of. Along with some of the bloodiest imagery we learned a few things about Bonzo. The most interesting detail is that Bonzo has to be summoned by playing his theme song I think the CD of his theme song acts somewhat like the tapes did in TMA by materialising out of nowhere. Also fun fact you know that torn seam that is right down Bonzo's middle? that is actually is his mouth lined with rows sharp teeth so I guess I know that now (so fun) Moral of the story dont f*ck with Mr. Bonzo

Alice knows something: Theres been this recurring audio glitch throughout TMAGP thatnks to a few extremly observent fans we have started to relize that these glitches are not at all random and are actually letting the audience know when a character is lying (i actually reposted somones deepdive into all the istances of this glitch so far if you guys are intrested in knowing more) why i bring this up now is becuase since we know when any charater is lying we also know when they are being truthful if there is no glitch when they say somthing and at the end of this episode this interaction occurs

Alice goes ahead and makes a joke about this to annoy Gwen but the fact theres no audio glitch when she says "I know" means she does actually know who is behind the OIAR and is activly refusing to share it with Gwen or the others. What do you know Alice!?

and that's about it im already loving these next batch of episodes and am so excited to learn more (ERROR has to show up somtime )

thanks to everyone who resonded the poll on the last update I will continue to include drawings into the breakdown even if it takes me a little bit of time to post. anyways I wrote this all in one sitting and I'm about ready to pass out so thanks again and the ask box and comments are always open for discussion and theory crafting.

-Echo

[punkeropercyjackson]

Someone add an Apollo dodgeball meme

[y2k-2day]

No context cellphones in y2k music videos

[palabarian]

I just know she had the biggest glass of wine after that inspection.

[residentmommyissuedbi]

Never beating the toxic workplace yuri allegations

[hell0jon]

god i love tma/gp transcripts

[broadwaydivastournament]

BROADWAY DIVAS SUPERLATIVES: Bosom Buddies - Icons Only

Yes, yes, there are so many iconic friendships on and around Broadway (Bernadette and Mary Tyler Moore, especially), but this time there's no "other" option.

Video Clips & Stories Beneath the Cut: More Polls

Angela Lansbury & Beatrice "Bea" Arthur: Angela and Bea first met in 1965 during rehearsals for the production of Mame, in which Angela played the titular Mame, and Bea her "bosom buddy" Vera. Both women would earn Tony Awards for their iconic, never-to-be-bested portrayals. They remained lifelong friends for the next five decades until Bea's death in 2009, where Angela hosted her memorial service at the Majestic Theatre. As the story goes, Angela's legendary Jessica B. Fletcher is named "B" for Bea.

"She was a class act and a real joy to work with. When I first met her I thought I was meeting this patrician, classically trained actor, but she has a mouth like a longshoreman. No kidding. She loved telling dirty limericks." - Bea Arthur on Angela Lansbury, 2003.

Ann Reinking and Bebe Neuwirth: Forever linked by dance and the great Bob Fosse, Ann and Bebe met in passing during the special 3,389th performance of A Chorus Line, but would not come to know each other closer until Sweet Charity, where Annie took over Charity for Debbie Allen during the run, and Bebe played Nickie (Tony Award). They remained dear friends until Annie's death in 2020, working together in Fosse, and of course, the 1995 revival of Chicago that persists to this day.

“I fell in love with her, I continued to fall in love with her. I am in love with her forever. There was a trust between us, there was a connection between us that was beyond anything that had any logical explanation. I felt sometimes--this may sound strange, but it’s the truth--I felt sometimes I looked in her eyes and I time travelled.” - Bebe Neuwirth on Ann Reinking, 2021

Carol Burnett & Julie Andrews: Though they may have never starred in an official Broadway show together, Carol and Julie are too iconic to pass up here. They met in 1961 and are both still alive, kicking, and enduring friends. They did a series of television and stage specials together, including Julie and Carol at Carnegie Hall (1963, Emmy Award), Julie and Carol at Lincoln Center (1971) and Julie & Carol: Together Again (1989). They also both starred in Putting it Together as the part, one after the other. And as a story goes, Carol and Julie were "caught" kissing as a prank on their friend Mike Nichols, but were instead discovered by Lady Bird Johnson.

"As we sat in the darkened hotel hallway on the sofa in front of a bank of three elevators waiting for him, we started to feel rather foolish, and we thought 'Let’s do something to make him laugh.' We decided to pretend we were making out," she said at the time. "He’d called our room and said he was coming right down, so we thought, well, the first person off the elevator would be Mike. But it wasn’t." - Julie Andrews recounts the story to Oprah magazine.

Chita Rivera & Gwen Verdon: Before there was Annie and Bebe, there was Chita and Gwen. The original Velma and Roxie duo in the 1975 Chicago, Chita and Gwen remained friends until Gwen's death in 2000. As Chita recounts, Gwen Verdon was the first person to tell her she had her own talent and didn't need to be her understudy. Years later, they were starring together in Chicago. Chita and Gwen shared the role of Charity (alongside many others) in the benefit concert production of Sweet Charity in 1998. It would be Gwen's final stage appearance. Though Fosse brought his own drama, Chita and Gwen never fell out.

"Our relationship was what it was from the day I stood beside her in “Chicago.” She was a strong woman. She was private. She used to, which is really kind of cute because I would call her on it, sometimes dramatize a story and would say, “Isn’t that right, Chita? Don’t you remember that?” And I wasn’t even there. I would find myself saying, “Yeah, absolutely.” She was so terribly funny, really, really funny." - Chita Rivera on Gwen Verdon, 2019

Donna Murphy & Marin Mazzie: Donna and Marin met while doing the Passion workshop in 1993, and their friendship endures to this day, despite Marin's death in 2018. After all, "and should you die tomorrow, another thing I see: your love will live in me." Marin sang at Donna's daughter's christening. Donna sang at Marin's remembrance concert. She still writes her memorial posts to Marin each year on the anniversary of her passing. Donna played Mother in the earliest workshop of Ragtime, before Marin took over and made that role what it will always be.

"She would always be the first person to say "how are you doing?" That kind of kindness and selflessness in a way--it's not that I didn't appreciate it then--I really did. So I don't need to smack myself in the head and say "why didn't you realize how rare and beautiful it was?" I did. What I couldn't calculate was how much I miss it." - Donna Murphy on Marin Mazzie, 2018.

Kelli O'Hara & Victoria Clark: Our first and only mother-daughter duo, though who is mother and who is daughter is up for debate. Kelli and Vicki met playing mother and daughter in the 2005 The Light in the Piazza as Clara and Margaret Johnson. They remain dear friends to this day and the only pair alive, well, and not dangerously close to death... Kelli and Vicki, trained opera singers, also reunited for Dido and Aeneas in 2016. Their friendship has survived a few awkward situations, such as being up against each other (alongside fellow Piazza star Celia Keenan-Bolger, and that's a story in and of itself) for the role of Nellie Forbush in South Pacific.

"I just started calling her Mother, because I felt like I could be who I was without covering up. Why she called me Mother back is pretty obvious, but she was, for me, always the rock. I felt like, Okay, she loves me, warts and all. Hopefully." - Victoria Clark on Kelli O'Hara, 2016.

[theanxiousghostartist]

TMAGP 28 Spoilers

Reaction and Theories

Literally screaming with this one/pos

The Minister's Visit:

Trevor is the Minister? It's very interesting given his character in TMA was a vampire-killer, homeless outlaw, and a great father figure for Julia. I wonder if this means his first experience with a vampire went differently than in TMA. Maybe his brother survived, or maybe someone came to help?

His diversity comment with Sam??? It is reminiscent of TMA!Trevor but still, it was very unexpected for me.

He seems to be in a similar situation to Lena, having to keep his bosses happy. He mentions that the ONS has been "sniffing around" and that Gorman-Smith is on top of him. From what I can see, the ONS is the Office for National Statistics, but it could mean something else in TMAGP. Otherwise, the language Trevor uses reminds me of the Hunt a lot - "sniffing around," "someone's head to roll," "come back to bite me," ect. I know that these are common phrases, but Trevor seems to be similar to his TMA counterpart, so I've been vigilant, trying to pick up on any settle details about his relationship with the Fears.

Lena and the Minister:

So, Lena's running the OIAR without much oversight, interesting...

A reliable source? Who Trevor??

Ahh, Ink5oul is still committing crimes. Good for them. It makes sense too, with them Becoming, they need to feed.

Daniel "Danny" Turner is the Commissioner, so I assume he's been involved in the investigation of Ink5oul to some extent.

Trevor wants someone punished for Ink5oul, someone in the OIAR. What will Lena do? Maybe she'll fire Colin, since he knows too much already and tried to destroy the computers.

It seems like Trevor is giving Lena permission to kill or fire whoever is a liability.

In this interaction between Lena, Trevor, and Gwen, it seemed to me that Lena was trying to protect Gwen from Trevor. Like she made sure that Gwen didn't reveal herself as contracting externals and made tried to keep Gwen away from the conversation entirely, perhaps so she wouldn't know too much about the way the OIAR is run by the higher-ups. While Lena was firm, she seemed scared as well, showing more anger than usual. Her character is similar to Daisy in TMA, so I'm using her as a basis, as they both seem to get angrier and more defensive when they are scared. Especially since my theory is that Lena is Hunt and Web aligned, it would make sense that they would show these emotions similarly.

Alice, Celia, and Sam:

So Trevor knows nothing. I wonder if it is because information is given on a "need-to-know basis" according to Lena. She and the higher ups would have to know, as she runs the place and the higher ups have power over her, but Trevor seems more like a middleman than anything. "Pan?" Is Celia pan??!! Yippee!!!

OoooOOO, Alice is having drinks with Teddy, I hope we get to hear about it next episode. Also, he's having insomnia. I wonder if it is because he's away from the OIAR?

I appreciate Sam respect Celia's boundaries but also acknowledging that her "mysterious origins" (TMA-verse), are going to have to be revealed in order to get closer to Sam.

Alice wins the bet ^_^

Gwen and the Minister:

Wilson is Trevor's driver; I wonder if they'll be important...

Gwen nooo!!! Please don't get Lena killed ))):

Jeremy Bouchard?????

Nooo Gwen don't please ))):

She has a flashdrive full of 20 years of "incompetence" of Lena as the head of the OIAR. Ok, so she is older, that's good to know for my design lol.

A concerned 3rd party sent this information to Gwen... It's from the email isn't it? I'm pretty sure it's Jonah. Since Jonah took over Elias, he had to have access to his memories. If they were related, it makes sense that Jonah would know about Gwen, and if they are the same person, we know Jonah is a master manipulator and has manipulated Elias before. Maybe he's trying to claw to the top via Gwen in order to free himself?

How does Trevor know Jeremy? Maybe he is the reason Gwen got the job? Ah, so Gwen is a spy now.

The Archivist and Sam:

So Sam is locked out of the OIAR?

Archivist!!!! They found the OIAR!!! Oh, I wonder if they are going to serve a Jane-Prentiss-esc role for the OIAR crew.

Sam is able to resist, for a little bit, at least? That may be because of his connection with the Eye.

Sam's Statement: So, we finally get more information on the Gifted Children Program! Gilbert wore a fake smile. All I can think of is the Stranger's Dolls and Distortion, maybe he was marked by the Stranger or Spiral? Two stern-looking older women... I wonder if one of those women was Gertrude.

"Was I happy at home?" "What do I do when I feel angry or upset?" "When is it okay to lie?" The Institute was most definitely looking for someone to mark or who was already marked...

Oh, so Sam was marked at the Institute, while they were trying to do a ritual. Very interesting.

Dr. F. Welling's skeleton ripped out of his skin after a yellow light went into him? I wonder if he was doing a body transfer and that word he messed up when Sam interrupted him caused it to go haywire. It definitely feels like the Flesh, especially since Sam mentioned near the end that he was unnerved by the sight of seeing a bit of the form of the skull "smiling" underneath the skin when he looked at his parents Maybe the Stranger was mixed in a bit as well? IDK, it reminds me of the coral case.

The development of Sam through his statement is great. I loved being able to see his fear of being a disappointment shine through, even as a child, and this statement definitely helps show us why he makes some choices today (like seeking out the Institute, valuing the Institute more than Alice at times, ect)

So, the Archivist (not necessarily OUR archivist, Jonathan Sims), left Sam on the floor, and leaves the tape recorder with Sam. Maybe this is how they establish a connection with their victim and slowly feed off of them, even after death, like the drowning victim Alice saw? The transcript also says that "The archivist steps forward to takes one last breath of Sam's memory..." so I wonder if they are not only feeding off of the fear but damaging the memory as well. Or maybe they take the memory and force it into the tape recorder, hence why when it turns on, even after death, the person starts speaking again, sort of like Gertrude's skin in the Unknowing - it holds a bit of the essence of the person.

Great episode! I was screaming the entire time/pos

[kairos-polaris]

I never understood the jokes about Gwen/Lena being a second Elias/Jonah if only because Jonny and Alex wouldn't write the same character/plot twist twice. you should have more faith in them

Jonah's villain reveal is a plot twist, it makes no sense for them to repeat the whole "the boss is secretly evil and planning on ruining the world" when the majority of the audience would know this already

Lena isn't even on the same level position wise, there are obviously people above her, unlike Jonah who was the Institute's Head. it seems Lena's position is similar to Jon's as Head Archivist

(also if you want to compare Lena to someone from tma, she feels like a mix of Gertrude and Jon in terms of her position, knowledge, keeping her employees in the dark while also caring for their safety)

[lostlavenderer]

Current TMAGP theory that I'm lowkey obsessed with: Alice used to be in Lena's managerial position

NOW HEAR ME OUT.

Starting off, we're immediately informed that Teddy and Alice have been working together at the OIAR for four years, and it's implied later that Alice has been there for longer.

In the same scene, we learn that Alice recommended Sam for the job, which Lena sounds rather delighted about. Judging by her tone, I'd say she values Alice as a worker surprisingly more than she does Gwen. Why is that, when Gwen actually really values her job and tries to do it with meticulous accuracy?

Next, while she tries to downplay it, you constantly get small hints that Alice knows really bloody well how the OIAR works including the response department they used to have. With everything she says, to me she really carries an attitude that screams 'goofing around but I know more about this place than any of you ever will'. That's the feeling I get too when she's on about the categorization when explaining it to Sam in the first episode, too:

It's all very 'I know exactly what happens with these categorized files and I know what does and doesn't matter'.

So. What I think, is that she used to be the manager before Lena, and that she was the one to hire both Colin and Teddy. I think back then, there was still a response department, whatever the fuck that means, and that the three of them were involved in it and went through some shit.

(Sidenote- I'm also convinced that the old response department is responsible for locking up whatever that creature in the Magnus Institute in ep10 is)

Anyway, they went through some shit together and Alice personally made sure the response department was shut down. Freaked the fuck out or maybe even overwhelmed with (Entity-related?) power, she steps down, instead hiring Lena, ambitious and clever Lena, as her replacement. After all, Lena claims she started at the bottom too:

Yet Alice still decides to stay at the OIAR, because knowing what she knows, she wants to stay closeby in case anything like [REDACTED PAST TRAUMATIC EVENT] ever happens again, especially because Colin and Teddy are still working there as well.

(MAYBE, but this is digging really damn deep, maybe somehow Colin and Teddy forgot said Traumatic Event for some perhaps Beholding-related reason, and Alice stays to protect them from it happening again. It's why she's almost glad that Teddy finally gets another job)

Now she's just another worker who claims she doesn't give a damn. Because she's been there; she knows what happens when you care, when you let incident files get to you. She won't go there again, and she won't let Sam either.

Anyway. Ex snarky office manager Alice is canon TO ME.

[sourw0lfs]

[pinkelotjeart]

The OIAR, no one knows what they do!