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Hob Gadling's wives and girlfriends, the forgotten women of The Sandman
DISCLAIMER: the following posts contains major spoilers for Season of Mists, World's Ends, The Kindly Ones and The Wake.
A couple of weeks I told @writing-for-life my next meta would be about the women who shared Hob's life. There's not much to work on in the comics for most of them, but the fact remains that they exist and that Hob probably loved them all. And his second wife in particular, Margaret/Peggy aka Jim, had a story dedicated to her journey, in World's Ends.
Hob's canon romances always interested me because these women were all mortals, while he was not. We know he had at least one kid who died, and he saw almost all his lovers/wives die while knowing he would never follow them in the grave unless he wanted it. We didn't see it happen with Gwen, but it will, eventually.
It makes me wonder: how does he do it? How does he manage to be completely invested in a relationship knowing that the people he loves will all grow old and die, while he will stay the same and live forever? I would have loved it if the comics had him discussing that, and I still hope in the show he will. We never saw what his last conversation with Hob was, after all... I like to think that Dream stayed a bit longer than usual with Hob, and that they opened up about their respective lives and experiences with love. Audrey is still alive and probably in Hob's life at this point, it would be nice if she showed up, met Dreams and asked him embarrassing questions... but I digress haha
Before I continue I'd like to confess that not being a shipper, I don't read Dreamling fics - I rarely read fics revolving a ship in general... I prefer Morpheus x oc or non romantic fics -, so any comment I can make about the fandom is based on what I see on social media, and not on fanfic contents. I'm sure that Hob's wives and girlfriends are often evoked and maybe sometimes, even more developed there than they are in canon.
Hob's first wife: Eleanor
Eleanor's just a portrait, we don't know much about her except that Hob probably cared about her since in the show he still calls her "my Eleanor" long after she died.
She exists only to show that Hob's situation stabilized after he started making money. Also, their son's death and hers may have been the first time that it hit Hob in the head that while he could live forever, he couldn't prevent his loved ones from dying. The loss of his family affected him very much and yet, he still wanted to live. I'll probably write a meta later about how his situation purposely mirrors Morpheus', about how they both lost everything they loved at some point but reacted in a completely different manner.
Hob's second wife: Peggy/Jim
We meet Margaret/Peggy/Jim in World's End. She pretends to be a man hence why she calls herself Jim, as she did during all the trip during which she met Hob Gadling. It's quite obvious that she did it for safety issues, as she would have probably not been allowed to travel on a boat let alone work on one if she had revealed as girl without a chaperon, and she clearly enjoyed the freedom and advantages she got as passing for a man. It's good to emphasize how brave she was to do that, as if her secret had gone out it could have put her in great danger.
Hob was the only one who saw through her, but he protected her secret. He also confirmed her doubts that he was much older than he seemed, a secret she protected as well. It seems she never believed he was immortal though - see the part about Audrey - .They bonded over having secrets they could possibly not reveal to anyone else, so it's a really sweet love story.
Later, in The Kindly Ones, we learn that Peggy died in his arms, during the Blitz. If they had kids, he doesn't say, but it's obvious he loved her very much and was deeply affected by her death, as he says on Audrey's grave, in The Kindly Ones, that Audrey's the first woman he was with since Peggy died.
Now I know that certain fans want Peggy to be trans or non-binary because she disguises as a man and asks to be called Jim. It's generally not as much because they care about her character or representation,than because it would make Hob canonically queer. Now I have no problem with anyone's headcanons: there are no right or wrong headcanon, no stupid or offensive ones - as long as they're not hateful, homophobic, racist, transphobic etc. - and whatever makes people feel represented and happy is fine by me. That said, I personally believe it's a bit simplistic to reduce a woman's refusal to follow societal norms to her being a man or non-binary, but again, whatever floats your boat guys.
I personally think that Peggy/Jim was written as a strong young woman who wanted to travel and see the world, knew she couldn't do that if she was seen as a woman, so she disguised as a man, took a man's name and enjoyed the role because let's be honest: the life for white men during this period was wayyyyyy funnier and easier than for women. What do you mean, it still is? I don't understand, are you saying institutional patriarchy is still very much a thing? *pretends to be shocked*.
You can find many stories like Peggy/Jim's in modern literature, and of course, in real life!
As for Hob, he knew Peggy was a woman quite early, and when he talks about her on Audrey's grave he says "Peg' ", not "Jim", which tells me he kept seeing her as a woman. But again, that's my headcanon and I won't argue about that, I just feel like Peggy/Jim deserves better than being discussed solely regarding Hob's sexuality. Her story is one of my favorite in the comics :)
Talking about the particular subject of Hob's sexuality is immortal and even though the comics doesn't mention any male boyfriend, he seems open minded and hedonistic enough to have at least tried... I always headcanoned Hob Gadling as pansexual, because it doesn't make sense to me that a man who lived for hundred of years would be straight, simply.
I really hope that the show will give us Peggy/Jim's story on screen, she highly deserves it. I love this character, I just wish it would be clearer in the comics that she's the future Mrs Gadling... I learned through social media that the Peg' he mentioned on Audrey's grave was the Peggy he met in World's Ends. It's very confusing, the way it's written.
Hob Gadling's girlfriends
We of course don't know every girlfriend that Hob had, in the comics we're just introduced to two: Audrey, and Gwen. We learn a couple of other names in The Kindly Ones though: Lisabet and Anne.
Audrey
Audrey's another woman who's never part of the conversations, yet the panel dedicated to Hob's reaction to her death is the first panel that made Hob sympathetic to me. But whenever this panel is discussed, everything that's related to Audrey is ignored so the focus is entirely on Hob's concern for Morpheus. Before I read the comics, I had no idea that Hob had just buried his lover, and begged Morpheus to resurrect her because the pain of losing her was too hard to handle.
A bit like for Margaret/Peggy/Jim, it's not clear at all that in Season of Mists, the woman we see with Hob in bed is Audrey, the woman whose grave he visits in The Kindly Ones.
It's really in The Kindly Ones that we can see how much he cared for Audrey, as he cared for all the lovers he had before but died. The reaction he has, he admits it himself, responds to a question we probably all asked: does he ever get used to it? Become insensitive, with time?
The answer's no:
I always wondered why Morpheus visited him at this moment: was it because he felt his pain and wanted to be here for him? Or was it because he wanted to say one last goodbye and it happened to coincide with the moment Hob was drowning in his grief? Was it because he himself needed a friend, more than ever?
Anyway he certainly didn't expect Hob's request. For the first time that we know of, Hob asked Dream to use his supernatural powers. Hob, the immortal who saw all the people he knew die, not only wasn't used to it but asked Dream basically the same thing as Orpheus asked him: help him to get his lover back. It must have been very painful for Dream, but poor Hob couldn't know that. I doubt he even knew that Dream had once been married and had a son.
So yeah, afterwards he runs after Morpheus and tries to make him confide in him, he even feels his friend's death is imminent and he shows a deep concern, but that's not all that this panel is about. I think it's about saying that no matter how old you are, how many lives you lived, how many people you loved and loved you.... The death of a loved one is always painful.
2. Gwen
Gwen is Hob's last girlfriend that we know of. She's also, in his own admission, the first Black woman he dates. Considering that Hob used to be an enthusiastic slave trader who needed an ethereal entity to tell him that slavery was wrong to think that he should find another way to become rich, I find this information.... interesting. After 600 years, it was about time... did he refuse to date Black women because of guilt for what he did? Or because he remained racist for a long time and didn't think Black women were worth his attention?
I feel very protective of Gwen, first because I dislike how she was written as a moral caution for Hob, as she absolves him for his sins but without knowing the extent of his sins - she has no idea he's immortal and was a slave trader - . When she appears in the show - and I really hope she will! - , I hope she'll be written in a way that she doesn't exist solely for Hob to express his guilt while being too coward to tell her the truth about what he did.
I was going to say something very personal about me, but I'm not sure the comparison I want to make would work, so I prefer keeping it for me, finally. If anyone's interested in knowing me better they can join me in private though :)
The second reason why I'm very protective of her is that as Audrey, on social media she's generally treated as non existent by the fandom - who focuses entirely on Hob's grief regarding Morpheus' death - . I recently saw a wish regarding Gwen that made my blood boil and almost made me hit the 'deactivate' button, but I'm not here to start a war, let alone to point fingers. I just really wish some people paid more attention to what they wrote, because some stuff I've read these last days came off as very insensitive.
And I'll conclude with one last panel featuring the gorgeous Gwen:
Also tagging @violetoftheendless and @tickldpnk8 , in case you're interested in discussing this subject :)
#sandman women#hob gadling#hob gadling's lovers#hob and women#the sandman#season of mists#the kindly ones#the wake#sandman comics#sandman spoilers#the sandman meta#fandom misoginy#fandom racism#fandom critical
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I love the implications of Xie Lian being into teratophilia with a monster Hua Cheng but being firmly gay. Like if Hua Cheng transformed into some dark globby million-eyed technical monster, Xie lian would still be DTF, but if Hua Cheng took a female form Xie Lian would be like. “I love you. And you’re beautiful….but I can’t have sex with you like that.”
#like Eldridge beings are fine but women are crossing a line XD#i’ve just heard a lot of people say similar things on XL being gay and him being a monster fucker#the idea of him being into having sex with male monsters but not woman makes me laugh#xie lian#hualian#hua cheng#tgcf#ti guan ci fu#heaven official's blessing#hob#mxtx
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i think it’s funny these two characters come from the same author
#mxtx#svsss#scum villains self saving system#scum villain#hob#tgcf#heaven’s official blessing#tian guan ci fu#sha hualing#liu mingyan#shi qingxuan#tgcf sqx#ming yi#he xuan#beefleaf#mxtx only has lesbian women#tell me im right
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BEEF EEF!!!!!
follow to put more gods into cute outfits 🌸
#yeah i own the outfit he xuan is wearing. harbringer of doom gf ass#winter is coming and im about to go full emo#this has been in my drafts for MONTHS because of a small mistake but i finally fixed it#i needed to draw some women you know how it is#i like to imagine shi qingxuan yelling speed drive by charlie xcx at the top of their lungs in the car#he xuan says they hate this song. notably they have not put in earbuds. and they know the lyrics well enough to correct sqx on it. hmm#finally one of 3 beefleaf drafts gets released into the wild idk why i keep drawing them and not posting#me and my terrible horrible boyfriend that i love so dearly#this is canon to the mcdonalds au. btw. if anyone was wondering#tgcf#art#my art#tian guan ci fu#beefleaf#he xuan#shi qingxuan#ming yi#hob#heaven official's blessing#天官赐福#🥩🍃
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Lacking any spelled out canon reason for Feng Xin's fear of women, I can only infer that after nearly 800 years of being accidentally known as "Mr Huge Cock, God of Massive Dicks" and having to suffer through how NOT NORMAL people get when they sexualize strangers to the point of dehumanization, as well as being bombarded with sexual prayers he didn't agree to or want to recieve, that all of that has resulted in cumulative trauma in a way that nobody considers legitimate and everybody seems to think is funny
#tgcf#Feng xin#Nan yang#tian guan ci fu#heaven's official blessing#heaven official's blessing#Hob#Tgcf meta#I'm aware this is a doylist problem of classic/tired tropes more than a watsonian problem but it's more interesting this way#Man needs a break#Shoutout to when I googled 'why is Feng Xin' and the autofill was 'afraid of women' and the upvoted answer was 'he's gay'
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Had a very bad horrible day but FEM!DREAMLING FOR THE WIN 💅🏼💅🏼yheaaaaaa
#fem!dreamling#fem!dream#fem!hob#dreamling#the sandman#my art#I support women's rights as much I support their wrongs#i think fem dream should be more allowed to be both pathetic and majestic as a treat#from goth twink to manic pixie girl (If that really made a difference )#also...fem hob ....I drool.bark bark#genderbend
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"I've known a lot of people, girlie."
This morning, instead of laboring for capital as required, I was daydreaming about how — canonically & in contrast to the typical fanfic portrayal — Hob never actually becomes less of a jerk. And my brain was arguing like Well, he was kind of sweet with Gwen, wasn't he? So I went back and read that last scene at the Ren Faire &... I mean, no, he becomes morally a better person, but he's still kinda a jerk. And I 100% forgot about him calling Death GIRLIE!
😳
I mean, oh boy, are you lucky she's so understanding, Hob!
#the sandman#hob gadling#And also the way he talks to the people working at the Ren Faire. It is totally understandable & he has unique reasons...#...to hate the whole operation but he's not exactly polite#which reinforces my theory that Hob is a FASCINATING character but not someone I'd want to spend time with#I mean this was the early nineties so maybe he made some progress in the last thirty years.#It's Hob. He's adaptable. His whole thing is learning and growing — slowly but like he gets there and I do like that.#So maybe Hob 2022 is actually the sweet 21st century man#the gentle professor#the one with the good communication skills who can teach Dream a thing or two#and doesn't talk to women like an asshole (and everyone like an asshole honestly)#Anyway. I am still supposed to be working.
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my major problem with fanon Hob is that he's treated as universal. which a) is impossible, nothing is actually universal, there is no singular Human Experience, and b) the text (show and comix) doesn't consider him a universal. he's an anomaly in his irrepressible desire to live. he's a foil for Dream. he's one of an unspecified number of immortals who occasionally cross paths with the Endless. he's not an Everyman, he's very much the product of the world around him (which changes with time but also doesn't - a white man in an established British empire holds a certain degree of power/liberty across centuries). why does whiteness = universality? why does whiteness = Human?
#sandman#fandom discourse#this is the major difference i notice between ppl's canons around hob vs canons around the corinthian#the corinthian - esp. as played by bhol - is a horror trope#and the americana signifiers locate him in a specific spacetime even if he's older than that#but mostly ppl pick up on the corinthian's ''thingness''#he's literally not human so there's less room to claim him as representative#i think there's possible parallels between coco and hob#(and then a Major Difference in how they're treated by Dream - for obvious reasons)#but also...#there's so many other human characters who are not afforded the same grace that fandom extends to hob#rose walker; lyta hall; jo constantine; unity kincaid#mostly they're women! and a lot of them aren't white#but rose IS supposed to be the every(wo)man trope#she IS supposed to be something of an audience insert bc she's encountering#the dreaming and the Fates and the rules around the Endless#along with the reader/viewer#why is the Black young woman not someone that fans identify with?#i'll give you three guesses...
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Bisexual men come in two flavours
Sarcasm is my only defence and I'm to pretty to die
Or
I'm eather gonna fuck you or fuck you up its your decision
#bisexual disaster#i love women and bisexual men#captain jack harkness#jaskier#john watson#hob gadling#stiles stilinski#chandler bing#they are all traumatised#this bitches ride or die for their bffs in a heart beat
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My Favorite NaNo Excerpt, 11/1/23
For accountability's sake, I think what I'm going to do at the end of every day is go through all the new snippets I've written that day and share my favorite! Possibly a bad idea because my two favorite excerpts today were both from smut fics and I have historically been reticent about sharing my smut on Tumblr. But I'll give it a try today. This particular excerpt is pretty vague in its descriptions but still, be warned.
Fic: "Blessed Be The Midland Railway" (The Excavation of Hob's Barrow)
Thomasina might not say that Henry Long was the perfect choice for a tryst in Bewlay. They may not have been in perfect sync. But the incongruities of their respective rhythms made for a fascinating bit of syncopation. And if he got just a bit too loud, it wasn’t much for Thomasina to nestle her head against his still-clothed chest, muffling him back to a pleasant volume with the cotton vest he’d sewed by hand. Distantly, she heard Henry laugh. “Oh, my – hah – my arse is getting numb,” he managed to say between raucous moans. His large hands, far more confident than they once were, stilled Thomasina’s hips. “Might we try…” Thomasina peeled her sweaty forehead from his collarbone and smiled at him. She liked the initiative. “How would you prefer to take me?” she asked, noting how ragged her own words had become.
#nanowrimo#the excavation of hob's barrow#smut#the tagline for this fic is: “women deserve to be neurodivergent and slutty”
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Julia Hart introduces the House of Black at AEW Revolution part 2 🖤
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so we're just gonna pretend the black mist never happened huh
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I wonder if Dream is actually bisexual now in the Netflix Sandman?
#he might be#but in the comics he's always having messy relationships with women#and no men#meanwhile the hob gadling thing isn't anywhere near as romancey around the edges#and hob is also in relationships with women for much of the modern stuff#but it's also clear that the netflix show is updating some things in the best ways so....i can hope!#i mean why exactly these entities (the endless) would be into just one gender in their human lovers i can't imagine
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Ever since I saw the Hob and the homework meme, I was like I know for a fact Hob would hate his past-selves a lot Also I know I pretty much draw crack ideas but a joke I make is that for all of Hob's days of bedding men and women. It was too much pressure to do it with Dream. (Don't worry to my Chimney post they will go at it for a very long time)
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Coriolanus x commander's daughter!! I've never seen anyone writing this but that would be so hot and forbidden
Request: Getting manhandled by peacekeeper!Coryo or getting fucked while he's in uniform or both YES PLEASE
Note: Birthdays should be spent doing the things you like...so I finished this one today. Enjoy!!
Warnings: 18+, uniform kink, semi-public fingering + oral (f receiving), forbidden relationship,
my taglists are here + you can send requests here at any time
—
Coriolanus Snow made a lot of stupid choices in his eighteen years of living, but having an affair with his commander’s daughter took the cake. The clandestine romance was risky and could, at extreme extent, get him executed for inappropriate conduct, but the fire that surged through your whole body every time you were together was addicting.
The first time you saw him, you were searching around for your father, having a message to deliver to him in person from the head commander. You kept your head high and stayed on your guard as you walked through the heap of peacekeepers in training, not wanting to look like a lost puppy among them.
You could usually find your way around the base, but today was scorching hot, so you decided to look for someone who would be kind enough to help you get to him.
A row of younger soldiers caught your eye. They were doing push-ups in their singlets, beads of sweat dripping down the side of their faces. As you were trying to pick which shaved head you were going to ask help from, one of them stood out near the end of the line.
Walking up to him, you couldn't help but silently admire the way his arms would flex as he continued the push-ups. Damn. Your stomach clenched at the sight.
‘’Excuse me?’’ You cleared your throat and he looked up, surprising you with the prettiest pair of blue eyes. ‘’Could you help me find Commander Hoff? I have something to deliver to him from the head Commander.’’
The blond cocked an eyebrow, uncertain if he should be helping you. It was his first time seeing you on the base. ‘’And you are to him..?” he prompted, staring you down as his mind embarked a sinful roller-coaster of thoughts.
‘’His daughter.’’
Although well aware of the dangers, Coriolanus couldn’t stop seeing you. And neither could you. You were addicted to his mouth and the way he could lift you up with ease and fuck you while standing, how his toned chest felt under your palms and attractive he looked in his blue uniform.
After you bid your parents goodnight, you changed out of your day clothes and ventured to where you knew all peacekeepers spent their nights at. You didn’t know for sure that Coriolanus was at the Hob, but the barracks were all empty and he didn't have many friends in District 12 besides Sejanus, so it seemed likely he would be there.
It didn’t take long for him to notice you in the bar, your dress brighter in color and certainly shorter than the locals. Your eyes met across the room for a brief moment, then you disappeared through the backrooms, confident that Coriolanus would follow suit.
You could hear his boots on the floors, slowly catching up to you. Your heart quickened its pace behind your chest, excitement building.
It wasn’t until you made it outside that he called you out. ‘’What are you doing here, Miss. Hoff?’’ he asked, his voice echoing in the dark alley.
Your feet came to a stop.
Coriolanus stepped forward, slowly closing the distance between you. ‘’The Commander wouldn’t want his darling daughter in a place like this.’’ Your back was now pressed against his front, an agreeable warmth in contrast to the night air. Coriolanus’s mouth moved to your ear. ‘’A place full of men who would like nothing more than dipping it in your tight cunt.’’
His words should have disgusted you, but they were speaking the truth. These men inside were drinking more than they should and no one was really stepping up for the women they were harassing. With the skirt of your dress hitting above your knee, some could associate it as provocative or inviting.
You turned to face him, biting your bottom lip when you noticed his uniform button up partially undone, revealing a glimpse of his white undershirt.
‘’I shall accompany you back to the base.’’ Coriolanus grabbed you by the arm, but you protested.
He was much stronger than you, so he easily grabbed both of your wrists with a hard squeeze and pinned you against the closest brick wall. You gasped, then quickly realized what game he was playing and you’d be damned if you didn’t play along.
‘’Are you going to arrest me, Mr. Peacekeeper?’’
Coriolanus’s grip on your wrists tightened, a stern command following. ‘’No talking.’’
You could feel your own wetness starting to pool between your legs, aroused by the unfolding situation. The game. The play of power.
His other hand moved from your waist to your hip, slipping underneath the fabric of your dress. He went over the curve of your ass before venturing between your legs to rub you over your panties, but he was met with a surprise. Coriolanus cocked an eyebrow. ‘’No panties tonight?’’
‘’I was hoping to run into you.’’
‘’Naughty girl.’’ His fingers started moving over your folds, coaxing a needy moan from you.
Your jaw dropped as he pushed two long fingers in, making you clench around them. Coriolanus did a scissor motion, then curled them inside, eliciting another moan. ‘’Fuck me.’’
Coriolanus shook his head. ‘’Sorry, darling. I don’t take any commands from civils.’’
‘’Please.’’
You could feel his smug smile behind your neck as the words left your tongue. ‘’What would your daddy say if he knew what his little girl was begging me to do to her?’’ Coriolanus pushed his fingers deeper, making you mewl, so needy for him.
He withdrew his fingers, letting you assume he was going to unbuckle his pants and finally take you, but Coriolanus turned you around and sank to his knees in front of you. The dirt on the ground will dirty his uniform, but he didn’t seem to care. Coriolanus looked up at you, then hooked your leg over his shoulder, leaning forward to kiss the inside of your knee.
You slipped a groan of approval when his mouth got closer to where you wanted him. Then, his tongue ran between your folds, circling your clit slowly. A loud, desperate moan echoed around the dark alley. Coriolanus pinched your thigh, a silent reminder to be quiet. He loved when you were loud, but the Hob was full of peacekeepers. If anyone were to see you together, Coriolanus would be in trouble.
His huge hands sank into your ass, squeezing at the same time he sucked your clit into his mouth. You reached to grab onto something, to keep you from being so loud, but found nothing other than Coriolanus’s buzzed head.
‘’Coryo…’’ you whimpered.
In the matter of minutes, he had turned you into a whimpering mess. Back arching away from the wall, eyes rolling to the back of your head.
One of his hands moved from my ass, and when you looked down, a pair of blue eyes was staring back at you. They stay burning into you, watching you closely as two of his fingers slide into you, finding that one perfect spot in less time than you need to say his name.
His pace increased as he pumped his fingers in and out of you, perfectly coordinated with his tongue. If the wall wasn’t holding you up, you would have toppled over by now. The feeling kept building, the heel of your shoe digging into the hard muscles of his back as you desperately tried to move your hips to ride his fingers.
You were wound so impossibly tight you couldn’t breathe. ‘’Coryo, I’m going to cu—’’
You didn’t even get the words out as every part of you spasmed, everything tingling and throbbing as you tightened around him. Below you, Coriolanus moaned, the taste of you welcomed on his tongue.
When he removed his fingers and mouth, he leaned back so he could look up at you properly. He grinned like a devil, his lips glistening with your juices as he sucked his fingers into his mouth.
—
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#coriolanus snow imagine#coriolanus snow x reader#coriolanus snow#the hunger games#the ballad of songbirds and snakes
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"The sheer effort that men have put in to persuading women that we are morally and/or biologically pre-programmed to undertake dull, repetitive work behind closed doors for no pay whatsoever is staggering (it would have been less effort for them to just do the dishes themselves). It’s your Christian duty! . . . No, wait, it’s just a moral duty to your lord and master! . . . Wait, hang on, it’s all to do with science, which has found absent mothers destroy their children’s mental health . . . Sorry, news just in: you’re needed at home because the destruction of the nuclear family is causing drug addiction and a major crime wave . . . Breaking: masculinity in crisis! You need to get behind the hob before your husband loses his sense of self and takes to the woods, Iron John-style! . . . No, we’re back to science now. Turns out MRI scans show you’re hardwired to take on all the unpaid domestic shitwork, even if you don’t feel thus hardwired (objecting to the science here being evidence of your lack of male, science-y hardwiring) . . . Debunking this is a never-ending game of whack-a-mole: yet another thing on the to-do list that women don’t need."
- Hags by Victoria Smith
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