#hyperdulia

[primordial-archetypes]

Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception

O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.

[sag-dab-sar]

Worshipping Mother Mary

I am not Christian so I thought I'd write about my practice.

[Art: 12th Century Mosaic The Annunciation, Church of San Marco Venice]

◾️Marian "Worship" / Mariolatry▪️

"Marian Devotion / Veneration" are Christian practices, the exclusion of the word "worship" is very important. Mariolatry is a name for this practice used pejoratively by many Protestant. It literally means "Worship of Mary." I use this term to distinguish it from Christianity. Latin Maria + o + -latry. Maria referring to Mother Mary, 'o' is an interfix, and "-latry" meaning 'worship of.' -latry according to wiktionary comes from Late Latin latria, from Ancient Greek λατρεία (latreía, "service; worship"). In Catholicism, the largest denomination of Christianity, worship is known as latria. It comes from the exact same origin "-latry" does and giving Mary latria is a sin.

Latria is due only to God (The Trinity) and God alone. Dulia, which comes from Greek δουλεία douleia meaning slavery/service to a lord, is the honor paid towards Saints. Hyperdulia, which is just dulia with a hyper prefix attached meaning "over", describes the honor paid towards Mary. It is above the honor of saints but below worship.

"Wherefore dulia, which pays due service to a human lord, is a distinct virtue from latria, which pays due service to the Lordship of God. It is, moreover, a species of observance, because by observance we honor all those who excel in dignity, while dulia properly speaking is the reverence of servants for their master, dulia being the Greek for servitude". — St. Thomas Aquinas

I am a polytheist so I do not ascribe to the belief that she deserves lesser honor while The Trinity alone deserves worship (latria). I use both Marian Worship and Mariolatry and took a very strong liking to the latter.

The above was an edited excerpt of this post LINK, that goes a bit more in depth about terminology.

I originally found Mary as Our Lady of Sorrows via Las 21 Divisiones (Dominican Vudú), not Christianity. Metresili is syncretized with Mater Dolorosa's and as I learned about the practice I felt "drawn" to her. However, I found myself wishing to honor the Christian Saint Mary not the Vudú Lwa Metresili, so thats what I did. I shelved my exploration of Vudú as it has requirements I'll never be able to meet.

◾️Mary as a "Hero"◾️

I do not worship Mary as a Goddess. I worship her in the same mindset as the worship of heroes by the ancient Greeks.

"Heroes can be distinguished from the less powerful dead by their extraordinary achievements, importance to and worship by an entire community or multiple communities, their powers to help or harm, and their privileged afterlife." — Hero Cult in Apollonius Rhodius by Sarah Hitch in Gods and Religion in Hellenistic Poetry. LINK

"For the ancient Greeks there was no clear-cut definition of a hero; still, heroes were distinguished from gods and from the ordinary dead. How we perceive a hero and his cult is dependent on which kind of evidence we consider. A hero can be defined as a person who had lived and died, either in myth or in real life, this being the main distinction between a god and a hero. He was thus dead and may have had a tomb, which sometimes was the focus of a cult, though not all heroes received religious attention. The difference between a hero and an ordinary dead person lies in the relationship with the living, the ordinary dead having some kind of connection with those tending the grave and presenting offerings, while the heroes were worshiped on a more official level. Finally, the hero was generally a local phenomenon and most heroes were connected with one specific location." — from Heros and Hero Cults by Gunnel Ekroth LINK

[Art: This Annunciation of 1892, by Arthur Hacker based on Gospel of James]

Mary has certainly taken on this distinction, not a Goddess but certainly not an average deceased person/ancestor. And in many cases her devotion takes on different forms in different locations and time. The rise of different titles, the various feast days of Mary, different locations of pilgrimage, spiritual Mother of certain groups, matron of certain activities, associated with holy relics, and associated with 'verified' miracles.

She is seen as a mortal woman who accomplished the amazing feat of bringing Jesus into the world and being his life long companion. People turn to her for divine intercession and miracles. In many Christian traditions she is certainly above all the "normal" deceased humans including even the saints.

◾️What She Means To Me◾️

[Art: 'The Madonna of the Roses' and 'The Madonna of Pietà' by William-Adolphe Bouguereau]

Her response during The Annunciation & Her Seven Sorrows are paramount in her meaning to me.

Mary answered "yes" when her God asked her to take on the most important role for humanity, Luke 1:34. After her conversation with Gabriel, beyond basic questions about it being physically possible her response, to this incredible responsibility her God was tasking her with, was simply: "I am the Lord's servant,' Mary answered. 'May your word to me be fulfilled.' Then the angel left her." (NIV translation).

Mary is the embodiment of piety.

Before her son was even one years old a respectable devout man told her a horrible prophecy of her son's greatness that will lead to her soul being pierced (Luke 2:25-37).

Mary is acceptance of painful things to come.

She fled to Egypt in order to protect her son (Matthew 2). She cherished her son fulfilling the prophecy even after her anxiety of losing him. (Luke 2:51) She suggests he preform his first miracle (John 1:5) knowing he is much more than just the son she loves. She has to watch her son be tortured by carrying the cross and be executed on a cross, helpless to stop it but simultaneously knowing this was always the destination.

Mary is strength in the face of tragedy.

She cared for Jesus deeply knowing all along that she would have to undergo great emotional pain but that her God had placed this responsibility on her, and her alone.

Mary is the epitome of spiritual devotion.

Her son raises from the dead, but that is brief and he ascends into heaven... leaving her behind, her role during life was complete and her son was not coming back to her. If we take from non-canonical biblical sources she was a constant companion to her son in life and continues his work after his death and ascension.

Mary is the ability to accept grief.

◾️Historicity ◾️

Historicity is the historical actuality of persons and events, meaning the quality of being part of history instead of being a historical myth, legend, or fiction. The historicity of a claim about the past is its factual status. Historicity denotes historical actuality, authenticity, factuality and focuses on the true value of knowledge claims about the past. — Wikipedia LINK

She may have been a mortal woman, but her historicity doesn't concern me. Wheather or not she was a real woman—born of Anne and Joachim, in the tribe of Judah or Levi, with a relative named Elizabeth, and gave birth in a manger or house— in real factual history is irrelevant. In a similar vein the tales of Greek heros need not be historical factual truth to carry religious meaning and importance.

I do not believe in the historicity of Sacred Scripture thus her stories in the canonical New Testament, Quran, and Christian apocrypha I view in the same light as the literary Epics of heros describing their life, accomplishments, and character. I write more about the nature of Sacred Scripture here LINK.

◾️Mary's Titles I Worship◾️

I view the multitude of "Our Lady of ___" as all the same person but like many I give her honor under different names and roles.

🔹Our Lady of Sorrows, Mater Dolorosa. The Virgin Mary in her aspect of the suffering she endured as the person to bring Jesus (The Savior) into the world. This is the main focus of my worship. There are seven sorrows she faces. I switch between calling her Our Lady of Sorrows and Mater Dolorosa kind of at random.

[Photo: Our Lady of Sorrows with 7 Swords, Church of the Holy Cross, Salamanca, Spain]

Additionally I may worship her under the titles:

🔹Our Lady of Altagracia, Nuestra Señora de la Altagracia. Protective and Spiritual Mother of the Dominican People. Feast Day January 21st.

[Photo: from a mass to Our Lady of Altagracia, unknown location, found on blog link]

🔹Our Lady of Solitude as it is a title of Mary that relates to Our Lady of Sorrow— an 8th sorrow almost, it is Mary when she retreats into solitude after Jesus crucifixion but before Jesus' resurrection. Honored in many Spanish & Portuguese speaking countries. Feast Day is Holy Saturday.

[Photo: Our Lady of Solitude at the Basilica of Our Lady and Saint Anthony of Mafra]

◾️Worshipping◾️

Mary's Worship is separate from my Sumerian-Hellenic polytheist tradition. Despite being founded on the viewpoint of Hellenic heros it feels better separate.

Things I find relevant when developing my practice:

🔹Literature: Passages in the canonical Gospels; passages in the non-canonical Gospels; Christian apocrypha of Mary's life; other Christian writings concerning Mary. The Quranic Mary is so different in story that I don't take it into account thus far.

🔹Edited prayers: I tend to edit prayers so that they focus more on Mary and her strength, rather than focusing on asking Mary to intercede on our behalf with God/The Trinity or bring us closer to her son Jesus.

🔹History of her honor: The history of feast days, the stories behind certain titles, the history of miracles, even heretical practices criticized by Christians if I feel it works

🔹Roman Catholic traditions primarily because they are easily accessible and I went to Irish Catholic school K-8, and experienced Latino style Catholicism in one of my childhood homes. This includes feast days dates.

🔹Occasionally other denominations traditions especially Eastern & Oriental Orthodox. This may include using alternative feast day dates.

Actual Practices:

🔹Prayers thats pretty straight forward.

🔹Seven Sorrows Rosary, I use the shortened prayer for each or may edit the longer ones one day. Found here LINK

[My Rosary from World Visions International]

🔹Honoring the Sorrows Across The Year

[Art: 16th Century Unknown Artists (as far as I can find)]

Sorrow 1: Prophecy of Simeon. Candlemas. February 2nd.

Sorrow 2: Flight into Egypt. February 17, Roman Catholic Missal.

Sorrow 3: Losing Child Jesus. 3 Days after Passover.

Sorrow 4-7: All dealing with the Crucifixion. Good Friday.

Our Lady of Sorrows Feast Day September 15.

🔹Other Feast Days I might consider celebrating if I'm up for it: The Annunciation (Feb 25), Marymas (Sep 8), Our Lady of Altagracia Feast Day (Jan 21), Our Lady of Solitude Feast Day (Holy Saturday).

🔹"Collyridian Offering", what I am calling the offering of sweet bread (Koulourakia or Koulouri would be best, but I have gluten sensitivity). Either at each special day or at least once a year on Mater Dolorosa's Feast Day of Sep 15. This comes directly from a (possibly) historical heretical practice I discussed here LINK.

🔹Marian Shrine. What it sounds like, a Shrine to Mary. I use my KJV Bible because it's gorgeous even though I know the Bible best via the NIV translation and usually only use NIV for writing. I use a saint candle like those I used as a kid in Latino Catholism. If I have one set up I may keep my rosary there as well as printed prayers.

[ghostsandgod]

1. COMMON PRACTICES BOTH INTERIOR AND EXTERIOR.

There are several interior practices of true devotion to the Blessed Virgin. Here are the principal ones, stated compendiously: (1) to honour her as the worthy Mother of God, with the worship of hyperdulia, that is to say, to esteem her and honour her above all the other saints, as the masterpiece of grace, and the first after Jesus Christ, true God and true Man. (2) to mediate on her virtue, her privileges and her actions. (3) to contemplate her grandeurs. (4) to make acts of love, of praise, of gratitude to her. (5) to invoke her cordially. (6) to offer ourselves to her and unite ourselves with her. (7) to do all our actions with the view of pleasing her. (8) to begin, to continue and to finish all our actions by her, in her, with her and for her, in order that we may do them by Jesus Christ, in Jesus Christ, with Jesus Christ and for Jesus Christ, our Last End.

-St Louis de Montfort

[fruityyamenrunner]

for my money the great tell that hyperdulia is disguised hypolatria is the singularity of the category.

there are many extremely holy people who are surely worthy of elevation among the duliated, and it is not prima facie obvious to me how to rank, for example {abraham, paul, eve, moses, peter, noah, adam, john the baptist, stephen, david, israel, dismas} and it is so far from obviously the case that mary is a stand-out holy figure out of all the many characters who played an important part in the great story of salvation.

and what nudges it over is the dogmatic quality of this doctrine -- if there were a spectrum of opinion, from people with a special devotion to mary alongside people with devotions to the other characters, and people who have no special devotion to anyone but Christ who think "hyperdulia" is a doubtful thing, that would be one thing. but it is obligatory to hyperduliate Mary and no other figure, and it is that mandatory quality, of pushing people to make worship, offerings, prayers, songs, devotions etc. in parallel to the - more justifiable - mandatory worship, offerings, prayers, songs, devotions etc to Jesus that is extremely suspect.

[e-a-noe-henry]

songs of mary the end times . . . again ? with the whole swirling hypocrisy brought to you in detailed crystal ball hyperbole visions of pestilence blinded and governed their contrived howling formations dive like first century xenomorphs contemporary cable t. v. it's daytime programing tip the scales beginning to reach citizens far . . . in the outer bands of the cali yuga the old fashioned way ? the old fashion way ? in reverence they wait the next round as those yet learned poke . . . and prod at a protected nest accidentally wondering into the race of " the jones " they all lust for invention displaying that proud but unprepared look we all love so much quickly life's acid horrors peak so , the transparent meaninglessness cause most to toss god aside doing so in surprised self-awareness of the true self the whole of it . . . inspire a wanton non exploration and the contraction of character entertainment entrepreneurs quickly put it to music releasing a hit polka hyperdulia e.a. noe henry

[geraldemacaulay]

Mary, Mother of God

Mary, Mother of GodMary, the mother of Jesus, is highly honored in Christianity with a special place of reverence known as “Hyperdulia,” which signifies her unique status above all other created beings except God. Here are key aspects of her veneration:1. **Annunciation:** Mary was visited by the Archangel Gabriel, making her the first woman to receive a direct message from God. This visit…

[martinwilliammichael]

Do Catholics worship Mary?

Robert Fastiggi, a professor of theology at Sacred Heart Major Seminary in Detroit and former president of the Mariological Society of America, answers common questions about Mary to help readers more fully understand the church’s teachings regarding the Virgin Mary and why she is truly the “cause of our joy.”

Q: Do Catholics worship Mary?

A: According to Catholic teaching, it is forbidden to worship any creature, and Mary is created by God — “For no creature could ever be counted as equal with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer” (“Lumen Gentium,” No. 62). The Second Council of Nicaea in 787 made a clear distinction between the worship due to God alone and the veneration or honor (often called dulia) that can be given to Mary, the angels, the saints and sacred images. Because Mary is the “Queen of the Saints” and the “Queen of the Angels,” she can be accorded high veneration (hyperdulia). Mary, though, can never receive the worship due to God alone.

Robert Fastiggi, 7 mai 2024

Excerpt from www.catholicreview.org 

Hail, Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners now and at the hour of our death. Amen.

[katakaluptastrophy]

OK, but the question of how you transpose whats going on in TLT into a modern AU is actually really interesting.

Because in universe, Alecto literally called "the devil", and her being locked up and the opening of that prison heralding the end is very much drawn from the role the devil plays in the Book of Revelation.

But John and Alecto's relationship is rather more complicated, and the metaphysics underlying it point in a rather different direction.

I feel like if you're going to transpose what's going on, your best bets are either to have Harrow be part of a Catholic group that has a devotion to a Marian apparition that seems to tip beyond the appropriate hyperdulia, or a syncretist sect, or to make Harrow some sort of 'gnostic', seeking the hidden true divinity.

The fact that it took Harrow such a long time to be like ‘you aren’t my god anymore’ about John considering she’s been in love with the equivalent Of the devil since she was like ten is hilarious.

Modern Harrow would be a catholic/satanist at the same time and I would love someone to make a fic about that

[lillycreations2023]

ದೇವರಿಗೆ ಆರಾಧನೆ, ಮಾತೆ ಮರಿಯಳಿಗೆ ಅತ್ಯುನ್ನತ ಗೌರವ. Latria, Hyperdulia, Protod...

[allaboutjoseph]

St. Joseph and the Child Jesus

Image from: Raul Versoza

[owenbroadcast]

hyperdulia. second image in the series i posted about yesterday. really like how this one turned out.

[jonesgirl88]

*rolls up to press conference* *leans into mic* Me: Catholics worship Mary. Next question. #I said what I said #send tweet

If I, as a Protestant, posted that, with the same tags you did, I would have scads of Catholics screaming at me about the difference between "hyperdulia" and "latria" and how dare I speak of the Blessed Virgin Mother©️ that way. There would be no "it was a joke! Lighten up!", I would be vilified by the pitchfork brigade with smug vitriol and Catholic Righteousness™️.

Your "playful joke" fell flat because your target audience deemed the joke a failure and in bad taste. Take the L and move on.

ngl im still kinda stunned how quickly some of y'all got vitriolic and nasty on my playful joke post about protestant pastors. y'all proudly call yourselves christians but jumped on the chance to act smug and dismissive the moment someone showed what you assumed was ignorance. like all jokes aside, some of y'all seriously need to examine these instincts because that was pretty gross.

[sag-dab-sar]

Personal Terminology: why "Mariolatry" and not "Marian Devotion/Veneration" ?

Mariolatry is a pejorative term used primarily by protestants to describe Catholic & Orthodox veneration of The Virgin Mary.

Mariolatry

Wiktionary Entry

Latin Maria + o + -latry

Maria referring to The Virgin Mary, 'o' is an interfix, and "-latry" meaning 'worship of'.

-latry according to wiktionary comes from "Late Latin latria, from Ancient Greek λατρεία (latreía, “service; worship”).

So the literal meaning is "Worship of Mary"

This may not seem bad on the surface but it certainly is bad for many Christians because there are different types of acceptable veneration.

Christian Veneration

*Obviously individual Catholics and Christians are going to have different ideas. Certainly not all follow official doctrines many syncretisms and DIY exist. I am basing my view off Church *doctrine* as I know it.

In Catholicism (largest denomination of Christianity) worship is known as latria. It comes from the exact same origin "-latry" does.

Latria is due only to God (The Trinity) and God alone.

Dulia, which comes from Greek δουλεία douleia meaning slavery (i.e service to a human master), is the honor paid towards Saints.

Hyperdulia, which is just dulia with a hyper prefix attached meaning "over", describes the honor paid towards Mary. It is above the honor of saints but below worship.

"Wherefore dulia, which pays due service to a human lord, is a distinct virtue from latria, which pays due service to the Lordship of God. It is, moreover, a species of observance, because by observance we honor all those who excel in dignity, while dulia properly speaking is the reverence of servants for their master, dulia being the Greek for servitude". — St. Thomas Aquinas

Worship is due to God and God alone.

So saying "you worship Mary" can be offensive, and a Christian who participates in Marian Devotion might strongly disagree. Marian devotion exists in the Roman & Eastern Catholic Church, Eastern Orthodox Church, Oriental Orthodox Church, Anglican Communion, and Lutheranism. They don't worship her, they give her honor and veneration that is below the worship of God, even if it is devout.

Many Protestants refuse these distinctions and see the veneration of Mary and Saints along with statues and icons as idolatry..... hence "mariolatry"

My Personal Practice

The distinctions individuals wish to use is all well and good, and I completely respect it.

But I am not Christian. I am a polytheist. I see no reason to give Mary Hyperdulia/Dulia and not Latria.

I don't come from a theological framework were worship is due to The Trinity and The Trinity alone. Or even due to Gods alone. Many other types of spirits that may not be considered Gods or "fully" Gods can receive worship in my practice. I view Mary on par with heros such as Herakles, he certainly receives worship.

Mary is separate from my rituals, offerings, and prayers to the Theoi and Diĝirene. However, my veneration/honor of Mary is still not below their worship. Hence "worship of Mary" seemed completely acceptable and well thats what "mariolatry" means so I took a very strong liking to the word. I use Mariolatry because I like it and Marian worship because it's understandable to most English speakers.

Other Terms

"Mariology" — this is the theological study of The Virgin Mary. Her place, her role, etc within Christian theology. I have no interest in studying theology.

"Marian devotion" — devote is a very strong word in my religion that can't be ascribed to Mary

"Marian veneration" — connects my desired personal practice more to Christianity than I want it to be. Also "Marian devotion/veneration" just tingle my childhood catholic school spidey senses and I don't like that.

Last Note

I am not trying to be pejorative towards Christians. I have no issues with Christians. Nor would I insist Marian Devotion by other people = worship. This is solely about me personally using a particular word. I also don't feel any offense if someone called me an idolater, even if they are trying to offend, since I call the animated objects of the Diĝirene & Theoi "Idols."

Anyways hope that all makes sense.

-not audio proof read-

[wcatradio]

Episode 212: More Biblically-Implicit Evidence of why God wants us to have Devotion to Mary and Honor her Hyperdulia (December 14, 2021)

[e-a-noe-henry]

songs of mary the end times . . . again ? with the whole swirling hypocrisy brought to you in detailed crystal ball hyperbole visions of pestilence blinded and governed their contrived howling formations dive like first century xenomorphs contemporary cable t. v. it's daytime programing tip the scales beginning to reach citizens far . . . in the outer bands of the cali yuga the old fashioned way ? the old fashion way ? in reverence they wait the next round as those yet learned poke . . . and prod at a protected nest accidentally wondering into the race of " the jones " they all lust for invention displaying that proud but unprepared look we all love so much quickly life's acid horrors peak so , the transparent meaninglessness cause most to toss god aside doing so in surprised self-awareness of the true self the whole of it . . . inspire a wanton non exploration and the contraction of character entertainment entrepreneurs quickly put it to music releasing a hit polka hyperdulia e.a. noe henry

[elfpuddle]

The Catechism is available for free online. The Catechism is available for free online. The Catechism is available for free online. The Catechism is available for free online. The Catechism is available for free online. The Catechism is available for free online. The Catechism is available for free online. The Catechism is available for free online. The Catechism is available for free online. The Catechism is available for free online. The Catechism is available for free online. The Catechism is available for free online. The Catechism is available for free online.

Don’t tell me what the Catholic Church teaches, believes, knows to be truth unless you can show me in the Catechism where it says so. For the above Marian issues, find the parts of the Catechism teaching about Latria, Dulia, and Hyperdulia. I’ve read the Catechism more than once. I taught it for years. I live it out daily. I’m happy to discuss it with you.