#i hate agent milton the least put of the three

[strrwbrrryjam]

if I was stuck in a room with micah bell, dutch van der linde, and agent milton, and I only had two bullets, I'd shoot Milton and Micah and tear Dutch apart with my bare hands

[jess-rewatches-prodigalson]

Ouroboros (S2, E8)

The hiatus almost killed me. So glad we have new content <3

As usual, my time-stamped thoughts for this episode are below. As always I reference Malcolm’s mental health. A lot. So if that’s going to be a trigger for you, don’t keep reading.

SPOILERS AHEAD:

0:04 - That scarf is so extra.

0:26 - OH LOOK THE FIRST SUNSHINE SIGHTING OF SEASON TWO!!! It only took 8 episodes. *insert eyeroll*

0:40 - Ugh. This montage makes me hate Hoxley. He embodies the type of human I abhor: self-important, egotistic, obsessed with appearance.

1:19 - “No I didn’t.” LMAO. Mr. David is so done with Martin’s bullshit.

1:36 - That makeshift shiv in the dude’s arm.....that’s Daryl’s shiv from a few episodes ago right? Am I going crazy?

 2:25 - Sooooo Birdie hasn’t left New York? She’s moved into the Milton’s “Murrayville Building”. Huh. Wait. Was Birdie in the house when Malcolm and Ainsley fought? Do you think she heard?!? Birdie might become a problem for the Whitly’s later this season....I hope?

2:43 - Jessica doesn’t know about the contents of the fight. Interesting. How long has it been since the end of 2x7? 

2:58 - “I’ll be there at 8.” hahaha OMG. I swear Malcolm was a terror during his ‘rebellious teenager’ phase.

3:38 - Yep. This fog horn reinforces the fact that I believe Hoxley is a dick. 

3:40 - Awww.... the way Malcolm jumps/flinches at the fog horn is both hilarious and adorable.

3:58 - “And who the hell are you?” YES GIL. YES. Don’t let him talk like that to Malcolm <3

4:04 - Duuuuude. Gil looks pissed and scared. He does not like Europol snooping around his crimes. ALSO I’m like 95% sure that Gil knows (or at least has a hunch) that Malcolm is somehow involved with Endicott’s murder. I’m pretty sure Gil is scared that this dude is going to try and arrest Malcolm. 

4:07 - OMG. JT is adorable. “You’re that guy. The mind sleuth.” Personal headcanon: JT read Hoxley’s book to try and understand Malcolm better. 

4:22 - DANI IS MY QUEEN. SHE IS MY ICON. I LOVE HER SO FREAKING MUCH. “No.” This girl is fierce. <3

4:23 - <3 <3 Malcolm’s heart eyes, head tilt, and visible pride is so so so precious. THIS is why he’s attracted to Dani. She’s not afraid to assert herself. 

4:31 - “And then took in his son.” ....Okay, so this infuriated me. Nothing Hoxley is saying is untrue. BUT something about the way he’s saying it just gets under my skin. 

4:45 - I think Hoxley is pissing me off so much because he’s psychoanalyzing Malcolm in front three of the people Malcolm trusts and loves most in the world (3 out of a very very short list of people). He’s trying to humiliate Malcolm and I hate it. I hate that Dani, JT, and Gil haven’t told Hoxley to shut up. I hate that Hoxley is trying to drive stakes of doubt into the three people whose opinion Malcolm treasures. 

5:25 - “Aim a little lower, Whitly.” and and and.....then Hoxley looks to the team as though he wants them to laugh. I’m furious. 

5:32 - THANK YOU GIL. STEER THE CONVERSATION AWAY FROM MALCOLM

6:04 - Malcolm is so obvious. There’s no way that the team doesn’t know that he was involved with Endicott’s murder. If they didn’t before this episode - they HAVE to know now. Right? They’re detectives. Malcolm is a terrible liar. 

7:00 - Oh. So now Ainsley cares about the crime. Now it’s “how much trouble are we in”. And let’s be real. Ainsley doesn’t even seem very worried or scared. She’s concerned that the crime will get out - she’s not sorry she committed the crime. She’s not sorry that her big brother tried to take the fall for her. 

7:15 - “We said no more secrets.” ...when. When did you two say that? Was there a ‘fight part 2 - the tentative truce’ that we didn’t get to see?

7:33 - A mention of Sophie Sanders. Finally. I still hope she comes out of the woodwork and takes the fall for this. I want more closure on her. Did the team ever find out that Malcolm found her? How did the Eddie murder finally get resolved (I’m not satisfied with the “not every case gets solved” line)?

7:42 - Yo. I don’t care about the time constraint of a 45 minute episode. I don’t care that it was required to move the plot along. The fact that Ainsley starts typing frantically into the computer at about 7:42, stops typing at 7:47ish and has found at least 4 different articles relating to murdered random people (who apparently helped hide Endicott’s body?) is SO UNREALISTIC. I just can’t. I can’t suspend my disbelief on this one. The article headlines say nothing about ‘couriers’. It’s stuff like ‘Local fisherman found dead’. HOW THE HELL WOULD AINSLEY KNOW THEY WERE HELPING MALCOLM IN LESS THAN 10 SECONDS OF GOOGLING?!? Nope. I can’t justify this one. Fedak - you dropped the ball.

8:40 - Poor Malcolm looks terrified. :( 

9:04 - My first impression of Natalie was that she’s a beautiful young lady who seems really sweet and a little socially awkward. Kudos to the actress.

9:41 - Another mention of Sophie. God - I hope she becomes a twist in this season’s storyline. I’m not content with how her story arc ended. 

10:21 - “I didn’t have anything to do with Endicott’s death and neither did Jessica.” Yep. Gil definitely knows (or at least suspects) that Ainsley and Malcolm are somehow involved with Endicott’s murder. It’s killing me that we’re not getting the big “team and/or Gil find out and/or confront Malcolm about it” moment. 

10:31 - OMG. Alan Cumming’s eyebrow wag here. hahahahaha

10:35 - Look at how pissed off Gil is as soon as Hoxley suggests that he and Jessica have a romantic history. 1) Gil still has it bad for Jessica (and is hurt that she rejected him again 2) Gil’s a pretty private dude and probably doesn’t like his personal business being speculated upon by a total stranger with ill intent 3) Gil is also getting protective of the Whitly’s. Not just Jessica but Malcolm (and maybe Ainsley) too. 

10:58 - Europol agents aren’t allowed to make arrests?!? THEN WTF IS THE POINT OF HOXLEY’S CHARACTER?!? TO DRIVE DOUBT INTO THE MINDS OF THE TEAM WITH REGARDS TO MALCOLM?!? FOR REAL. WHY?! TO FORCE GIL TO ARREST MALCOLM AND AINSLEY?!?!

11:08 - “To watch you put the cuffs on Mr.Endicott’s killer. Deal?” “Deal.” oooooooohhhhhh no. I do not like the foreshadowing here. If Gil has to arrest Ainsley and/or Malcolm.....idek. Part of me wants to watch it for the emotional whump (of all parties - including Jessica). Part of me wants to ugly cry at the thought of it though.

11:39 - “How do you know so much about yachts?” ....THANK YOU JT. DANI HAS A STRANGE AMOUNT OF NAVAL KNOWLEDGE IN THIS EPISODE AND WE ALL KNOW “I watch a lot of Below Deck” IS UTTER HORSE CRAP. Ugh. I want to know more about Dani and JT’s personal lives. So. Badly. 

11:44 - <3 <3 <3 The look Malcolm and JT exchange when Dani claims that she watches a lot of Below Deck is absolutely precious. It’s like they’re best friends and/or brothers. They both knew Dani was lying. <3

11:54 - “At least he’s the real deal.” Ouch. I honestly can’t tell if JT is just teasing Malcolm here or if JT genuinely believes this. ....Is this JT’s way to letting Malcolm know that he has suspicions about his involvement with Endicott’s death?

12:06 - “Says the guy who bought his book.” HA. Dani is on fire this episode. The snark queen. Look at how pleased Malcolm is that Dani is defending him. <3 Warms my cold dead heart.

12:09 - annnnndd now JT is definitely teasing Malcolm. “What our boy Bright needs is a moniker.” hahaha watching Dani and JT come up with stupid profiler monikers was so cute. I love it when the team gangs up to (lovingly) tease Malcolm.

12:30 - “No. Nothing yet.” Again - Malcolm is a terrible liar. The team must know that he’s involved with this thing. They’re detectives. 

12:59 - Martin’s physical reaction to Malcolm saying, “No. That woman does not deserve to die.” Is HILARIOUS. Martin is so freaking desperate for Malcolm to become a serial killer that he doesn’t even care the Ainsley has already murdered someone. 

13:19 - “He has a perfect track record.”.....what? So does that mean he’s solved every case he’s ever worked on? Taken credit for solving every case he’s ever work on? Hand picked the cases he works on so he knows he can solve them? Probably a combination of the above. Sometime about Hoxley reminds me of Gilderoy Lockhart from Harry Potter. You feel me?

13:23 - The fact that Tom Payne (a Brit) is being told that Hoxley has “perfect teeth. For a Brit” by a Welsh man is hilarious.

13:34 - Does this fish packing joint have no security?!? Like Malcolm didn’t have to pick a lock or anything. He just walked right in (and he’s not being quiet).

13:51 - “I can think ruthless. I don’t know if I can be ruthless.” THIS. THIS is Malcolm in a nutshell. Think about Nicky Covington. Malcolm wanted to act ruthless but he couldn’t. He ended up saving Nicky because he couldn’t go through with his ruthless plan. That’s the difference between Malcolm and (quite frankly) the rest of his family. Jessica, Martin, and Ainsley can all be ruthless. All of them. Jessica on a lesser degree but Martin and Ainsley are confidently ruthless. Often.

13:57 - Ok. For real though. HOW HAS NO ONE OVERHEARD THESE PHONE CALLS BETWEEN MARTIN AND MALCOLM. THE PHONES HAVE TO BE TAPPED RIGHT?!? IN A SECURE MENTAL INSTITUTION FOR MURDERERS?!? and I stg that Mr. David knows things. That man is not a moron and he’s pieced stuff together (not from this scene obviously, but still).

14:13. - “Why don’t I break out.” The fact that Malcolm hasn’t mentioned that Martin wants to escape to anyone (since 2x4) is really stressing me out. I know Martin’s going to break out - the promos have made that very obvious but I’m still anxious about it. Mostly I’m worried for the health and safety of Malcolm (and Gil, Jessica, Dani, JT, Edrisa...).

14:17 - “We all go on the run together.” Martin is delusional. He thinks that the whole family will go on the run with him?!?!?  He might be able to convince Ainsley. He might be able to blackmail or threaten Malcolm. BUT Jessica? She’s not going willingly. Hell - she might kill him herself if Martin escapes and tries to come near her (which.....I would actually kind of like to see).

14:48 - The fact that Malcolm apologizes to a corps is so precious. Really reinforces the fact that Malcolm is not a killer. 

15:00 - Oh look. Another scene for Malcolm’s nightmares. “The time I cut off a dead guy’s thumb to protect my sister”

15:24 - annnndd Malcolm is really close to having a panic attack. Look at that face. :( Someone give this guy a hug. Please.

15:34 - Where the HELL is Edrisa!?!?!?

15:42 - Malcolm, you utter moron. What possessed your stupid ass to show up at a crime scene with a soaking wet arm and draw attention to your arm by shaking it?!?! WHEN THE BODY WAS JUST DRAGGED OUT OF A VAT OF WATER. AND YOU TAMPERED WITH THE BODY?!!? YOU DUMBASS. 

15:52 - This is Gil - terrified. He’s scared because 1) he knows Malcolm is lying , 2) he’s concerned for Malcolm’s mental health and 3) he’s starting to think that either a) Malcolm killed this guy, b) Malcolm knows who killed this guy and is obstructing justice, or c) Hoxley is going to pin this on Malcolm and Gil won’t be able to save him.

16:14 - “I’m never buying frozen fish again.” hahaha Dani is killing it this episode. <3

16:23 - Check out how Gil is staring at Malcolm. Gil totally thinks Malcolm has the thumb.

16:50 - “Older model” Shit. Seriously? Are finger print scanners on phones old?!? My phone isn’t that old......I got it 6 years ago? 

17:16 - MALCOLM IS A TERRIBLE LIAR. Honestly, the pure terror on his face throughout most of this episode screams “I KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT THE MURDER.” If the team hasn’t pieced this together yet they’re not worthy of being detectives.

17:29 - I’m not going to lie. I had to fast forward through the Martin/Capshaw scenes for the rewatch. I find them so upsetting to watch. I just can’t do it more than once. Their whole dynamic is gross, creepy, and just ugh. 

20:00 - Jessica and Hoxley talking about Endicott’s death is so satisfying. 

20:35 - “Jessica Whitly. Played for a fool. Yet. Again.” Ok Hoxley. You are not allowed to disrespect my girl Jessica like that. 

21:10 - The biggest problem with Jessica and Gil’s “mock interrogations” by Hoxley is that neither of them mention Ainsley or Malcolm. It’s super suspicious. They mention other people by name. People who should be connected to Ainsley and/or Malcolm given the context of the sentence. Hoxley is a moron for not nailing Ainsley and Malcolm for the crime during this episode. It’s so so so obvious.

21:19 - hahahahahahahaha Jessica grabbing the martini out of Hoxley’s hands. hahahahaha I stan.

21:35 - annnnnd Jessica is a terrible liar as well. Seriously - why doesn’t she just say “ENDICOTT WAS KILLED OVER HERE!!”. Another parallel between her and Malcolm though. Malcolm + Jessica can’t lie well. Ainsley + Martin are expert liars.

22:54 - Again. Ainsley is intrigued at the fact that Malcolm has a thumb in his freezer. Much like Martin would be if he knew. Jessica on the other hand shares Malcolm’s fear and disgust about the situation.

23:00- “We”?!!?!? AINSLEY YOU HAVEN’T DONE ANYTHING. MALCOLM HAS BEEN COVERING FOR YOUR ASS. YOU JUST HAVEN’T TURNED YOURSELF IN AFTER YOU REMEMBERED. THAT’S YOUR ONLY CONTRIBUTION TO THE “KEEPING ENDICOTT’S MURDER A SECRET” SITUATION. 

23:07 - “Do you even see what you are doing to him.” This line both terrified and delighted me. On one hand - I’m grateful that Jessica can see how much emotional pain Malcolm is in because of this situation. One the other hand - Ainsley looks pissed that Jessica is blaming her for Malcolm’s general brokenness. If Ainsley goes full serial killer - Malcolm is going to be on her list. “The brother that overshadowed her.” “The favourite child” “The reason she had to be a perfect daughter” “The reason she was ignored”

23:32 - “Got it.” Damn. Ainsley is bitter. She wants to control this situation. She doesn’t like taking orders from Malcolm. 

25:00 - MR.DAVID IS RIGHT THERE. IF HE DOESN’T BLOW THE WHISTLE ON THIS I’M GOING TO BE SO DISAPPOINTED. 

25:12 -”The Brain Fart” hahahahaha OMG. 

25:53 - “You’re being rude Hoxley.” ......Martin being the nice guy? I’m genuinely disgusted.

26:26 - “Your son Malcolm.” THIS. THIS is why Ainsley is so pissed off. Everyone has always thought Malcolm would turn out like Martin. Ever since they were kids. She’s pissed off that no one considers her to be a threat. They’re all concerned for and scared of Malcolm. Not her. She’s invisible. Why do you think she became a TV reporter? To force people to see her. 

26:50 - I’ve never wanted to Martin to kill anyone more than I have in this moment. I do find Martin’s protective love for Malcolm interesting though. 

27:37 - How long was that phone in water before Malcolm grabbed it?!? Anyone ever drop a phone in water? I don’t care how much rice you have. It’s toast 90% of the time. 

27:44 - Malcolm explaining murder to Sunshine is so cute. 

28:22 - And my heart rate has skyrocketed. 

29:10 - “To protect your sister.” Huh. I find it interesting that Hoxley has considered that Malcolm may have killed Endicott to protect Ainsley. It suggests that he thinks Endicott was a threat to Ainsley alive. Makes me wonder about what happened to Ainsley before Malcolm got back to the house in 1x20.

29:16 - “You all had something to gain.” Did they though? Martin had something to gain - keeping his cushy Claremont cell. Ainsley had something to gain - “A news story.” Jessica had something to gain - “safety”. But Malcolm? He didn’t personally have anything to gain. He wanted his Mom and sister safe but he never thought about himself. 

30:11 - “Perhaps the murder weapon is still among your mother’s silver.” I find it interesting Hoxley has pieced that together. I also find it highly unbelievable but that’s just me. 

30:15 - Hoxely, rich people don’t carve their own Christmas roasts. The Whitly’s have staff for that. 

30:24 - “You’re still just a scared little boy. Hungry for daddy’s love.” Ouch. It’s true but it still hurts. This is not helping Malcolm’s mental state. At all. Istg if we don’t get a Malcolm mental health crisis soon I’m going to have my own mental health crisis. Seriously. I want to see this boy lose it. I’m a monster. I know. I want ugly crying. I want panic attacks. I want him to go catatonic. I want someone to comfort him. 

32:35 - Nat’s a good liar. Very convincing. Too bad Malcolm’s a good profiler. 

33:53 - Check out Spider Monkey Malcolm. <3 

34:14 - Earlier this episode when Malcolm said he can think ruthless but not be ruthless? This is the proof. He could’ve sat back and let Natalie kill Hoxley. In some ways - it would be good for Malcolm. But Malcolm’s not ruthless. He values human life. He’s an A+ dude. For better or for worse he tries to help people.

34:26 - Really Hoxley? Do you plan on stabbing Malcolm?!? (FYI - this scene is very reminiscent of Lockhart pulling his wand on Harry and Ron in the Chamber of Secrets #justsaying).

34:45 - “I’m going to be killed by a millennial. What a twist.” hahahhahahahahhaa

35:22 - “I’m British.” hahaha I love this scene so much.

37:14 - FINALLY THE PAPA!GIL CONTENT WE”VE BEEN WAITING FOR. (it’s weak but I’ll take it)

37:39 - AHHHH the fact that Gil and Malcolm are both non-verbally communicating that Natalie didn’t kill Endicott is killing me. Does Malcolm think that Gil hates him? Does Gil really think Malcolm killed Endicott? Or just that Malcolm covered it up? I NEED TO KNOW.

37:46 - Concerned!Gil and a hand on Malcolm’s shoulder. <3 <3 <3 My icy heart has melted. 

37:54 - annnnnd Hoxley ruins the moment.

39:39 - I’m not content with this ending. It’s all too convenient. Hoxley still thinks Ainsley and Malcolm did it. Mark my words. This isn’t over.

39:53 - Ainsley is so smug here. I want to slap her. She’s elated that she’s getting away with murder. She doesn’t care about how it’s hurting her family. 

40:00 - Did they really do the interview inside Jessica’s house?!?! Gross. 

40:17- I might be the only one but I love that polo on Malcolm. Something about it is adorable. 

40:22 - ......is Ainsley really trying to take credit for “putting this Endicott mess behind us”?!?! Because - she didn’t. OMG. She absolutely didn’t. Even if she did - she’s the reason they’re in the mess to being with!!!!!!! I can’t. I just....can’t. 

40:45 - The episode ends right here for me. I know Capshaw and Martin kiss. It makes me want to hurl and I refuse to watch it again. I also know that Capshaw takes the scissors away from Martin. I think their whole dynamic is upsetting and creepy. I’m like 95% sure that Capshaw is a serial killer on the DL. Or at least some sort of psychopath. Martin and Capshaw are both manipulating each other and it’s too stressful to watch. 

I didn’t love this episode. It was a bit all over the place. If you stuck around this long - thank you. I’ll see you guys next week. <3

[thesummerisacurse]

Monday and the Bad Case Of Demonic Possessions: Part 3

3. KitKat- Hellhound On the Loose (Not the First Time)

Summary:  A favourite Hellhound goes missing and Monday calls in some favours.

Warnings: Swearing

After my show had ended and I felt like it, I decided that it was time to actually start looking for my favourite Hellhound, KitKat. KitKat was different, to say the least, he was my favourite and Luci’s too and he had a tendency to escape Hell and his kennel with all the other little Hellhound puppies. This wasn’t the first time that KitKat escaped, he’s already escaped four times this year and countless other times in the time he’s been around.

Like always, I start by trying to track down rouge crossroad deals to see if KitKat wanted to drag some people down to Hell. That’s what it was last time but so far it was looking like something else. Maybe he got bored of Hell. I did and that’s why I spend all my time up here, fixing up demon’s mess but the views sure do beat Hell by a long shot. I couldn’t find any links between rogue crossroads deals and the places that KitKat had been. See KitKat had a thing for leaving things (dead people) in his path and so far my contacts had nothing which meant I might have to call in a favour.

I hated calling in my favour. I had millions to call in but I always save them for dire situations, for example, the apocalypse or if I die, or if I get kicked out of this job, not finding lost Hellhounds but it’s time to use one.

One of the favours I have been keeping for a very long time is from a crossroads demon called Nyla. I saved her ass from a lifetime of torture due to a small misunderstanding between her and a prince of Hell called Azazel. He wanted her to pay for her mistake but I said that I would torture her for the rest of her days and well conveniently ‘died’ a few days later and she owes me one now.

I did not want to do this in the slightest but I needed to find this stupid dog or my head was going to be served on a silver platter and feed to Luci. I don’t want that to happen just yet.

I was going to do this the old fashioned way. I wasn’t going to call Nyla and say ‘What up? I’m here to call in my favour from a few centuries ago’. No, I was going to be a bit dramatic. I was going to go to the crossroads and try to sell my non-existent soul to Nyla. Yep, I’m way too dramatic these days. Stupid T.V shows.

I showed up at the first crossroads I could find. It was quite easy actually. I knew where every crossroad was. It was quite simple how to sell your soul for a wish, all you need is a small box with a picture of you in it, graveyard dirt and a bone from a black cat, place it all in then bury it at the centre of the crossroad then wait for a demon to show. I did all that then wrote a little note in Enochian, language mainly used by angels (stupid winged sons of bitches (Demons know Enochian but we don’t use it too much but I do because I like to piss of angels. Raziel can suck my dick) saying that I want Nyla to do the deal. Now comes the waiting.

Normally, it takes longer than five seconds for a crossroads demon to get out of Hell and to the crossroads but Nyla was here now. She was a basic crossroads bitch. Made to look hot so guys would sell their soul.

“You know that there are easier ways to contact me then via a deal, Monday,” Nyla commented in a wonderful accent.

“Yeah I know but I’m dramatic and you know that Nyla,” I said.

All the crossroads demons like me. Most of them I saved from being tortured for the rest of their lives. They all love me now and if Hell needs a Queen, it would be me. I know a few demons who wouldn’t like that but I don’t care.

Nyla and I talked about using my favour to help get a lock on where this stupid Hellhound might be and what he’s doing. Why can’t he just wander back to Hell himself? She agreed to help me find this stupid little shit and off we went on this adventure.

I should mention that this adventure was not done in the normal ways, like car or train or plane, it was done as the smoke clouds that we really are. It was easier that way, we could fly and it made looking for a Hellhound five times easier.

It took a while but we found KitKat’s vague location. This stupid puppy was nowhere near where I was and I didn’t have a body right now. Once Nyla and I were back inside the bodies, we went our separate ways, her back to Hell and me to the wonderful city of San Diego. All I have to do was snap my fingers and I was there.

I once again got into the best hotel and took the best room. I got into some FBI databases thanks to an inside agent that I placed there myself (think of it as a sort of witness protection). These FBI agents had been looking into a bunch of dog attacks in the city. The victims barely made it out alive and had told the agents that they were attacked by something invisible. I knew that I had to go and talk to them. Now it’s time to play dress-up again.

Once I had become an FBI agent, I went and talked to the real FBI about these attacks. I talked to the best-looking agent, agent smith, about these attacks and he gave me all the information that I needed to prove that it was that Hellhound piece of shit, KitKat, then I disappeared.

I got out of dress-up gear and turned on the T.V to watch some stupid show about cops and all that crap. It wasn’t horrible but I used it more like background noise, so I could start writing up Jess’ report and send it to Luci. I completely ignored writing Jared’s because it was very work in progress.

Once the reports were done, I went to bed. Well, demons don’t need sleep but I like it. One time, I slept for five weeks and people thought I was dead. It was fun. I like to sleep because time seems passes faster and it reminds me of Hell. One month in Hell time is equivalent to 10 human months.

It was about three in the morning when I woke up. It was easier to search for my Hellhound. Don’t ask why with the time but it was easier to do things at night or early morning sometimes.

I found the best looking car and took it. It was easy to find KitKat once I got a trace of him. It only took a short period of time before I found him. He was in some backyard. I stole a laptop from the house and looked up the residents. They were the Miltons. Nice, quiet family with two kids, one boy, and one girl, and they had a dog called Kat. That’s where KitKat was. I got out of the car and went to retrieve my dog.

It was quite easy to find KitKat. Well to everyone else, he’s invisible but I’m a demon so I can see him. He was asleep with a tiny little poof of a dog tucked up with him. I walked over to KitKat and he woke up and bounced over to me. Stupid mut, I love him. He was happy to see me. He must have gotten lost. Sad doggo. Now I was going to be mean.

“You stupid dog, do you know how much I have looked for you? Luci sent me here to find you and what are you doing? You are asleep with some poof that’s not even a dog! I thought that you would be killing human or making half breeds but no you stupid dog I love you and don’t do that again okay?” I ranted and KitKat whimpered in agreement.

I put KitKat in the car and we drove to the edge of the city where I made a call and used another favour. This demon owed me a lot and using one favour wouldn’t hurt me. This demon was Amy. Amy was a demon but no ordinary demon. He was a great president of Hell who had about thirty-six legions of demons under his command and he was one of the few higher-ranked demons who liked me in my position. He supported me and he owed me a fair few favours, so I called him. Hell has its own telecom services. They don’t work too well.

“Yo Amy, can you send someone to open the gate, I have KitKat,”

“Yes, Luce’s dog, and I want to give him back so my head isn’t cut off,”

“Okay fine, I’ll wait but make sure he goes to Luci or someone who will give him to Luci,”

“You’ll do it, great tell him I said Hi,”

It was pretty one-sided. Amy didn’t talk much and demons can communicate via thoughts but I prefer speech.

I waited a moment and a hole opened in the ground and Amy appeared. He said thanks and took KitKat back home.

Once the gate waws shut, I called Luci. He picked up quickly.

“If this is about returning KitKat, I know, He’s sitting on my lap,” He said.

Okay, I knew that KitKat was a favourite but I didn’t know he was the favourite favourite. You learn something new every day.

“Yeah it was about KitKat but since he’s fine, I’ll leave you two along. Bye!” I hung up. I did not want to become involved in that love fest.

After a long day of Hellhound hunting all I wanted was a nice cocktail and some doughnuts and a good movie. Something that I always do is watch horror movies. It’s cliched but I’m a demon and I can complain about the acting and how it’s all fake and that not a single person in those movies would be able to survive a night in a haunted house, not even Jared’s house which is pretty basic.

The first horror movie that I found, I started to watch. Well, I didn’t get to watch much of it because my stupid phone started to ring again. I swear to something if it’s Luci asking me to do something I will hang up. I grabbed the phone off the bed and it was Jared. That was a surprise.

“What do you want?”

“There are teens coming to the house and they know how to perform an exorcism,”

That’s bad. That is very bad. Scrap bad, it was the worst thing that could be happening to Jared right now.

“On my way,” This is not what I want to be doing up duty calls.

[acehotel]

Just/Talk: Justin Strauss with Jerry Schatzberg

Since the beginning of his illustrious career in the 50s, Bronx-born Jerry Schatzberg’s singular vision has shaped, shifted and pushed the cultural needle in fashion, music and film the world over. His seminal works are so powerful that they’re indistinguishable from the subject itself — it’s hard to envision Bob Dylan’s Blonde on Blonde without immediately calling to mind Schatzberg’s portrait of him. He's photographed the greats, directed Al Pacino’s starring debut and was a trailblazer for boundary-pushing art. For this edition of Just/Talk, legendary DJ and Ace friend Justin Strauss talks to Jerry about dressing The Rolling Stones in drag, his foray into photography and why Dylan’s iconic LP photo is blurry. 

Justin Strauss: I'm really thrilled to meet you. I've interviewed a lot of people. When this opportunity came up, it was really something special for me. Your images are burned into my psyche. I've been buying records since I was seven years old. When I grew up, my dad was into records. The cover you shot for Bob Dylan’s Blonde on Blonde LP is one of the most iconic record covers ever.

Jerry Schatzberg: I hope so. We just had an issue over a cover on a Bob Dylan book I'm doing  now, and I think the book cover is beautiful. The German publisher decided they didn't like it. They didn't think they could sell it. I don't know why. I realized after listening to what they were talking about, they just wanted to do their thing. I could just see the board meeting in the morning on how can we get our touch on this and all that. I didn't like anything they submitted.

If somebody shows me something better than what I've got, why not? I'll say it was my idea. But they came through with really terrible stuff. I told the publisher. I said, “No, you'll have to go with the cover we've got.” It's being translated into four different languages. They wanted a little something different in each one so they could tell the difference between the languages, which was just an excuse they gave me.

Finally, I said no to them. Then they said, “Well, let us just submit something.” I said okay. They submitted something, and it again was terrible. “We'll find something else.” They submitted it. It was also terrible. I wasn't being difficult. If somebody does something better than what I've got, I want to do it. It's still going to be my book.

Finally, I got my lawyer involved. They said to him, “We're not going to do the book.”  I said, “Okay. I don't care.” That's a good position to be in because, first of all, books  don't make a lot of money. Fortunately, I have the final say. My lawyer called back and said,  “They're not going to take it.” I said okay. That afternoon, the publisher called back and said, “Okay, we'll take it, but we're not going to take as many books as we were going to.” I said, “I don't care. Fine.” If they sell a bundle of them, they'll order another bundle. Who cares?

And the one of the reasons I like the  cover idea is because I'm a visual person. If you put Blonde on Blonde in a window of record covers, it'll always stand out. I think this in a bookstore on a shelf or in a window will also stand out.  

Justin: You grew up here in New York?

Jerry: In the Bronx, until I was about 13 or 14. Then we moved to Queens. When I got married the first time, we moved out to Long Island.

Justin: And where did you develop a love of photography?

Jerry: That was all just hating what I was doing and I just had to find something different. I was working for the family fur business, but I hated it. There was a big retail camera store not far from where we worked, Willougby's, I don't know if it's still there. I used to go there for lunch hour, and I'd end up walking around for a couple of hours. I didn't even know I was there for a couple of hours, but my father would let me know when I went back to work because he didn't like that his brothers were working back in the factory and I'd take two hours...

Justin: What was your first camera?

Jerry: I had a camera when I was about eight or nine, or six. It was a plastic little camera. I don’t even know what it was.

When I was getting out of the Navy, I had seen something I liked. It was a 35 millimeter camera, an Argus C3. I didn't take many pictures with it, but one day I saw an ad in the Times for a photographic assistant. I had no idea what that was. But I called the number, and the person there was really an employment agent. I told him my story, and he laughed.  He said, “Come on in  and I'll see what I can do.”  

He sent me out, and the first place I went to was Lillian Bassman Studio, and it was like falling down the rabbit hole. I didn't see anything like this in the Bronx or school or anywhere. The interview went very well except they couldn’t offer me much money.  I couldn't take the job.

My uncle worked for a company where, if you rented their diapers each week, they'd give you a free picture of your baby.  I told him I’d like to do that, I’ll take baby pictures. My uncle said, “No, there's no money in that.” I said, “Well, how much money?” And what he told me was more than I was offered at the first interview. So he set it up for me and I borrowed money from my mother to buy a camera. When I went out for my first appointment, the baby was sleeping and they wouldn’t let me in. When I went to the second appointment the baby was sick and they wouldn’t let me in.  So my uncle was right. There's no money in that.

So I decided I would try to sell the photographs and that was a mistake. My Uncle was very good at it. He'd come back with $40, $50 orders from people who can't afford $10. I didn't like that very much. After a year of suffering through that, I call the employment agency back and he remembered me, and he laughed again. He sent me to two places.

Justin: As a photographic assistant?

Jerry: Yes. The first place was too fancy for me, it was really a catalogue house. They made a lot of money, but they didn’t do anything creative. The second place was up on top of a building. There were other guys waiting when I arrived and I was fourth in line. The stylist didn't know when the photographer was going to arrive, and told the first three guys to go out and get some coffee. After five minutes the photographer arrived, and I was the first in line. I had my interview, and he told me he would probably hire me. I didn’t quite believe him, and I went back to selling pictures on Long Island. I called home that night and my wife told me Bill Helburn had called. That was the photographer who said he would hire me. I figured I probably lost the job. I called him first thing in the morning and I got the job. I probably asked for the least amount of money. I worked for him for two and a half years. When I told him I was leaving, he offered me a piece of the business.

I had made a few friends in the industry. One of them was Bob Cato, who was an art director for Charm Magazine. He promised me work at the magazine, and just after I quit working for Bill Helburn, Bob Cato lost his job at the magazine. Now I had a big studio, a small rental, no work, but lots of experience photographing all the young woman who came to New York wanting to be models. We exchanged photographs for experience.         

Justin: When did your work start to appear in Vogue?

Jerry: Through the small advertising agency of my friend, I started to get a few little assignments, around 1954 and, of course, Vogue was the first decent thing that I got.

I said to the secretary as I was leaving, “If I don't hear from him in two or three months, can I call back?” She said, “In two or three weeks, call back.” By the time I got back to the studio, he'd already called to give me an assignment. That was a beginning. It was small assignments, small pictures in the magazine. It was a start.

Justin: Were you into fashion photography?

Jerry: My father was the salesman in the family fur business and, in the showroom, they'd have one magazine, which was Town & Country. I do remember Milton Greene’s name. I guess he was doing most of the photographs for Town & Country at the time. I remember his name, and I didn't pay much attention to the photographs until I was in it.

Justin: And you were always into music?

Jerry: Yeah, even as a kid. I remember I always liked the big bands. I'd be in the car driving with my mother and I'd hear a band, tell her who it was, and she’s be so impressed. I was thirteen years old and I already knew the name of the band.

Justin: And in the 60s, with the Beatles, and the Stones, and Dylan. Were you into all that as well?

Jerry: In the beginning, I was more into rhythm and blues, and that was when I went to college. I went for a year to the University of Miami. It was just starting, and I found two other guys from Jamaica in my neighborhood and we had rented one room on Miami Beach — the three of us lived in that one room. I remember asking one of the bellmen where could we go to listen to music. He said, “Real music?” I said “Yeah.”

He took us out to this place. I guess it was a church, but a small building with spaces between the clapboards. You could see right through them and Count Basie was playing there. The place just shook, but he played for his people, and it was great.

Justin: At some point you merged your love of music and your love of photography and started shooting musicians as well?

Jerry: Oh yeah. Once I was working for magazines, I started to get assignments to do actors and other personalities.

Justin: This was the golden age of fashion photographers, people like Avedon, Penn, William Klein… Did you know them?

Jerry: I didn't know Penn. Actually, Penn bought a camera from me. I knew Avedon. I knew Bill Klein, because we both worked for Vogue. Norman Parkinson, Helmut Newton. When I first started working, I worked mostly in England, and I hadn't gone to Paris. I was friendly with David Bailey, Terrance Donovan and Duffy. They were my buddies. We were working all the time, and playing all the time. We just had a lot of fun.

Bailey told me when Beatles came here and we were all going crazy, he says “Hey, you haven't heard anything. You got to hear The Rolling Stones.” The next time I went over, we went to brunch at a friend's and Mick Jagger came in. At first I didn't know who he was, but he came into the brunch. Dirty sweater, very long dirty fingernails. I was talking to him and then I realized who he was. I hadn't heard the music yet. I said, “Where can I hear you play?” He said, “We're playing this afternoon.”

I said, “Oh, can we all go?” He said, “Yeah.” He called up the theater and put away some seats for us and we went in a caravan of about four or five cars. At the time, Mick’s girlfriend was Chrissie Shrimpton and she was driving his car.  I remember that we all went up there, and when we got to the theater, I saw all these people, these kids outside screaming and running after the cars as we turned into the driveway.

We went to the  backstage entrance and we couldn't get through the people. Mick got out of his car and started running for the backstage and they're pulling on his sweater, hair, all that. We got in. We fought the crowd and went inside. We watched about four or five groups perform. Red outfits, blue outfits, and I figure The Stones were putting on the chartreuse outfits or something. They came out, and they had his ripped sweater and I started to understand who The Stones were and where they were coming from.

Justin: Then, at one point, you shot the picture sleeve for single “Have You Seen Your Mother, Baby, Standing In The Shadows.” What that your concept to dress them in drag for the sleeve?

Jerry: No, Andrew Oldham, their manager called me up, and said, “The Stones have a new single coming out, would you like to photograph them in drag dressed as their mothers?” I said, “Yeah, but I'd just as soon do them as Americans and shoot in New York.” They're wearing American military uniforms. Right around the corner from my studio was a building that looked just like the building I grew up in the Bronx, so I wanted to photograph them in front of that with a star in the window. We did that, and probably some of the most interesting ones are the back behind the scene there, getting dressed for the shoot.

Justin: To dress them in drag was a revolutionary idea at that time.

Jerry: I wasn’t thinking anything like that. But in the new Dylan book I’m doing, Jonathan Lethem (who did the text) also said “You started something,” referring to that sleeve, and mentioned David Bowie.

After that sleeve came out, Frank Zappa called me and wanted to do a combination of the Mothers of Invention in drag and the Beatles’ Sgt. Pepper for the cover of their album We’re Only In It For The Money. We used fruit and vegetables instead of flowers.

Justin: Amazing. And you owned nightclubs?

Jerry: Yes, one was called Ondine. The other one was Salvation. We had a different crowd at Ondine. Ondine started as very café society. The person that started it was a Frenchman named Oliver Coquelin.

I had just come back from London the week that we were opening, and he showed me the records they were going to play and I said, “Oh come on.” Charles Aznavour, that's alright once in a while. So I took him to Colony Records and we bought about $100 worth of records and he said, “Oh, my patrons are not going to like that.” I said, “Do you want a successful club, or do you want just have your patrons?” We opened. We were very successful, and then Sybil Burton opened the club Arthur and that took a big chunk out of our business.

My partner, the person I found to manage the club, was friendly with the groupies, the kids that would come in there and give us atmosphere. They were telling us about the bands from California and I figured the way we should go was for the young people.

We brought in the Doors before their album. We brought in Buffalo Springfield before their album. We brought in Jimmy James and the Blue Flames, who a year later became Jimi Hendrix. Linda Keith, who was Keith Richard’s girlfriend at the time, told us about this guitarist she had seen down at Cafe Wha, a club in the Village.

But things were up and down at Odine. The stockholders reneged on the deal they had with me and wouldn’t pay me. I said, “Okay, I'm leaving,” because the same guy that offered us funding was starting another club, which was Salvation. I said to Bradley, my partner, “Let's go down and let's go with the other club.” We did, and Jimmy James (Hendrix) had just come back from London — he opened the club for us just one night, the first night. After that, we just had a disc jockey.

Justin: But no one knew who he was at that point?

Jerry: No, nobody knew who he was, but the club had a good reputation. We had everybody come to that club.

Justin: And was Andy Warhol and his crew hanging out at your club?

Jerry: They'd come, but they'd rather hang out at the Factory, although Albert Grossman, Bob Dylan’s manager called me and asked me if I would photograph Edie Sedgwick. He thought there was something there. I said, “Well, what?” He said, “I don't know, but there's something there.” I said yeah, I would. I was walking the street and there's Andy with Barbara Reuben who was an underground filmmaker.

“Hey, Andy. How you doing?” “Oh, good. How you doing?” “Oh, I'm photographing Edie…” and I sensed  something because he didn't like anybody stepping into his territory. I didn't think I was stepping into his territory...I'm just photographing Edie. I'm not making her my super star or anything. I told him Albert asked me to and he goes, “Oh yeah, fine. Bye.” I get back to the studio and Barbara calls me and says, “Andy wants to know if you'll do five minutes of Edie for his film of her?”

I said, “yeah I’d like to” because I'd been playing around with a film camera. Hang up. She called back five minutes later. “Andy wants to know if he can do five minutes too? He's doing five minutes.” I thought for a minute. “Yeah, sure.” Hang up. She calls, “Can I come down?” I said yeah, everybody can come down. Everybody showed up. The Velvet Underground showed up. All of his gang showed up for the shooting, and I made them stay in the studio. We were in the dressing room. We did it. I have my footage but I’ve never seen Andy’s footage because, while we were shooting, Bobby Neuwirth said to Andy, “Andy there’s no film in the camera,” and Andy said, “oh it doesn’t matter.”

Justin: Did you ever photograph Velvet Underground as a band ?

Jerry: No. I photographed Nico when she was a model. I've got some good photographs of Edie. She's probably one of the most asked for photographs that I have. People just know of Edie, so Andy did a good job.

Justin: Tell me how the Dylan Blonde on Blonde album cover shoot came about.

Jerry: Albert Grossman, Bob’s manager, called me for that. I'd already been photographing Dylan.

Justin: Where was that picture taken?

Jerry: In the meatpacking district. The building doesn't exist anymore. We've tried to find it. People have asked, and then there was actually a search made for it, but they can't find the building. Some guy seems to have found the location because he plugged it into other things that might have been there.

Justin: It was one of the first rock double LPs and the way you used the one photo to cover both of the LP sleeves...

Jerry: Robbie Robertson, in his book, claims that it was his idea to do the double spread. That may be, because it wasn't my idea. I thought it was Dylan's idea, but in his book Robbie talks about it and how he suggested doing it that way.

Justin: When you shot that picture, it's a little blurry, and a little different. Did you know that was the cover, and did you know that it would have the effect it did?

Jerry: No. If they had asked me to send in my choice, I would never have sent that. It was the beginning of February. Dylan had on this little jacket. I didn't want to put on a big coat or anything, so I just had a little jacket. It was cold, and we were shivering. I grabbed about four images where it's blurred like that, moving.

Justin: So it's blurred because you were cold and moving the camera.

Jerry: Yes. Dylan, when he saw the photographs from that day, he picked that picture, which I was delighted about.

Justin: It's a great choice. It was really a breakthrough album, musically and visually. For me as a kid buying records, and for a long time after, record covers were almost — if not as — important as the music. It was what you saw first because we didn't have the ability to hear things before we bought them like we do now. You'd see a record in the record store. “Wow. This looks cool. I'll buy it.”

Did you ever think that in 2018 you'd be talking about this record cover still, that people are still blown away by it?

Jerry: No, no. I'm delighted. I think of these German publishers bullshitting me on the telephone. It's Bob Dylan. Put Bob on the cover and people will buy it. What are you talking about, that you want to change this, you want to change the type, and think people won't understand it.

Justin: So you're doing record covers with the biggest artists of the day, you're doing fashion photography shoots for Vogue. You're living a dream life right in the 60s, early 70s. And you’re a big part of it.

Jerry: Nora Ephron did a piece. It had something to do with “where's it happening.” I was always where it was happening. Her articles were good. She did five photographers. I think she did Hiro, Avedon, Halsman, me and somebody. I think it was at the Post, when it was a liberal.

Justin: Did you know or feel like that time and the work you were doing would have such an impact on modern culture?

Jerry: No, those things you know after. We were just living our lives and doing our thing.

Justin: When or what motivated you to want to go from what you were doing to making movies?

Jerry: When I went to do the collection for Vogue, I wanted to take my favorite model, Anne St Marie, with me to do the collection. Vogue said “No, we've got to find a new girl. She's been around.” I got so angry with that because she was still a great talent, a great beauty. I thought that was so unfair to her. That happened to many models. In those days, they started in their twenties, early twenties.

Justin: You got upset with Vogue for not letting you use the model you wanted to use for your shoot?

Jerry: No, I was pissed off at that story. I wanted to tell that story and I couldn't figure out how. I thought maybe I'd just do a series of photographs and show how beautiful this person is and all that. “No, we don't want to work with her. We've had too much of that.” It's that kind of power trip I didn't like; I always had it in my mind. Then there were a couple of producers from LA that got in touch with me, and they were doing a TV special, The World's Most Beautiful Women. Would I be interested in being an advisor on this?

I said, “yeah, of course.” They came in. They were two interesting guys. Not too interesting, but they were always fighting with one another. I remember that. They had this thing, and I said, “Who's directing it?” They said, “We don't have a director yet.” I said, “You know, I've been shooting film.” And they said “Let us see it.” I showed it to them. They liked it. They showed it to ABC. They liked it. So I was the director now. We went over, and it wasn't just cosmetic beauty. It was women that had more substance, like Antonia Fraser and Queen Sirikit of Thailand and Claudia Cardinale.  

I did Antonia, and then we were waiting for Queen Sirikit to come into London, and she kept canceling. Finally, I told them I had an arrangement. I've got a job. I've got to get back to do that job, and I'll come back again. I left, and maybe two days after I left, she came to London and I couldn't come back. So they decided they would shoot her. They did, and the two guys are still fighting all the time. They each confiscated one segment, the one that I shot, and the other one. They wouldn't give it to each other. The network just canceled them out. But it gave me the experience, and I felt that maybe this is the way to tell my story.

I started to develop that story. It took me four years to get it on, but I started to develop it. I came back here. I talked to some friends of mine who knew a French writer. I got in touch with him. He was coming over to do something in California. I paid him to write a screenplay for me. He did. I liked it, but I didn't like him. He was just a pain in the ass. I didn't want to put up with that, so I just figured I'd take the loss and, by that time, I had already told my story to Faye Dunaway, and she fell in love with the character. So she became part of the project, and it was much easier at that point.

Justin: She had already starred in Bonnie & Clyde, which was a huge film.

Jerry: Yeah, I met her when she was doing her first film. Esquire sent me down to Florida to shoot her and then she did another film for Sam Spiegel, and then she did Bonnie & Clyde. When they came back to New York, Marianne Downy — her press agent — said, “Why don't you call Schatzberg and see if he'll do more photographs with you?” She did. I said, “Yeah, I'd love to,” and she had actually just got an apartment here on Central Park West. Went there, and looked like a hurricane had hit the place. But we became friends, and then once we were having lunch or dinner, she said, “What else are you doing?” I said, “I'm working on this film.”

I told her about the story and she fell in love with it and the character. Then she met the woman that the story is based on, so it just kept building. Through her agency, we got a deal with Warner Brothers. I found a writer, and he did a terrible screenplay. The first screenplay was pretty good, the Frenchman, but I just couldn't deal with him.

Then I was in an elevator in Los Angeles at the Beverly Wilshire, and somebody in the back said, “You Jerry Schatzberg?” It was a producer I had met at a party and he remembered me. He said, “What are you doing here?” I said, “I'm looking for a writer.” “Like what?” I told him a little bit about my story. He said “I just worked with a writer you should meet. I think she's great. But the director doesn't like her screenplay.”

I said, “Can I read it?” He sent me the screenplay and I fell in love with it. I called her up and I asked if she'd come and meet me and Faye Dunaway at the Beverly Wilshire, and she said, “Yeah.”  I thought she'd kiss our rings or something. Shine my shoes. She was very nice, said “Yes, thank you” and she left. 

I was going to do the film with film producer Ismail Merchant. I told him the story, and he was in India. He invited Faye and I to India. We went to India.

Justin: You and Faye Dunaway were romantically involved at this time?

Jerry: At the time, yeah. We went to India. Then we went around the rest of the world and back. I kept calling Ismail and telling him, “We've got to make a deal with this writer. I really want to use this writer.” He says, “Well, I've got to finish this film with James Ivory.” “Yeah, but you're telling me that all the time, and it'll go on and on and on, and I won't have a writer. I really want this writer.” I finally called him, and I said, “Ismail, we're going to have to end it because I'm moving on.” We made a deal with Paramount. No, first I went out to California. I rented a house there and I called Carole Eastman — who was the writer — and I asked her to come. I want to talk to her. She said, “Oh yeah, yeah.”  

But every time I talked to her I said, “Don't worry. I haven't forgotten about you, Carole. I haven't forgotten about you.” She came up to the house. She says, “I can't stay very long because I've got a friend of mine in the car and she's got a bad toothache, and I've got to take her to the dentist.” I figure “Oh, she's making her escape.” I said, “Well, I've got a tape I'd like you to listen to.” “How long is that? Two and half hours? Oh no, I can't.”

I said, “How much can you listen to?” “Well, let's play the first ten minutes. Let me see what it is, and then we'll see.” In the car was Helena Kallianiotes, she played the hitchhiker in Five Easy Pieces. I said, “Well, do you want to invite your friend in?” She said, “No, no. She doesn't want to. She's shy.” I put the tape on. She sits there for two and half hours listening to the tape. She decided she wanted to do that film, so we made a deal. We became good friends. I'd go out to dinner with her and spend six hours with her just talking about it and all that. It was just great.

Justin: So what happens to this film?

Jerry: Then we got the script. I love the script. I brought it to the executive producer Bob Evans at Paramount to read. He didn't like it. He hated it. I said, “Oh, that's too bad.” He thought he was going to get Antonioni’s Blow Up, and my film was not Blow Up. Blow Up might have made more money, but my film was not that. My film's a really good film. I was just delighted with it.  

Freddy Fields was my agent then. He said, “I've got maybe one more shot. I don't know where we go now, but I've got one more shot we'll try. I'm going to give it to Paul Newman and his company, see what they think.” Paul and Joanne Woodward read it and they loved it. Joanne had a roommate that had the same experience and she fell for it. My original thinking before I had met Faye, was thinking of either Joanne or Anne Bancroft as the aging model, and then just get a younger actress to do the other part. But after meeting Faye I thought she could do the part from beginning to end.  

So we started off, and it worked beautifully. I remember the first time I wanted to bring Paul the script, let him read the script and talk about the script. We got there and before we even started working, Joanne came running out of the house. Sharon Tate and Jay Sebring had been murdered. They were very friendly with Jay, and I was very friendly with Sharon. We couldn't work and I just left. We were up in Connecticut and I called Roman Polanski who was in London. I went out to California for the funeral. It was a really sad time.  

Justin: After all this, how does your first film Puzzle of A Downfall Child about an aging fashion model, whose life is now falling apart, finally get made?

Jerry: Well, in 1970 I took the film to Oregon, where Paul was shooting something. I know we showed it to Paul, his crew, and Henry Fonda. He loved the film. People loved the film. Then it was invited to the San Francisco Film Festival, and a Frenchman had seen it there. First of all, I didn't know the Frenchman, but he told me later that when he saw the schedule, he said, “Oh, a film by a bullshit fashion photographer. I'm not even interested.” He turned out to be an important person in the film world. I didn't know him. He called me and said, “I've called Universal because I want to represent the film in Paris and I just want you to know and we're moving ahead.” I said, “Wow. Goodness, that's fantastic.”

I brought the film to Universal’s executive's home to show his friends at his private screening room. They were all eating and drinking and half of them were drunk. I’m there and I hear people saying “I didn’t get that. What was that?” After the screening, the executive says, “I want to talk to you.” He takes me into a toilet and keeps me there for 20–25 minutes trying to convince me that I should have somebody do voiceover at the beginning to tell you what the film is about. I said, “I think if you just sit and watch it, you'll find out what the film is about.” He went on and on and he said “I won't change it unless you agree to it.” I said, “Okay, I don't agree to any changes.” Then he changed it.

I spoke to Pierre and told him what had happened at the executive’s house. He said, “I’ll speak to them.” He called Universal and said “I won't take the film unless it's the original Schatzberg film.” They said, “Oh come on, Pierre. We know what we can sell and what we can't sell.” He said, “I don't care.” Pierre said, “We won’t take it.” They had other prospects, so they said “we'll leave the European version as the original, and we'll do what we want in America.” They did, and I hated it. Every time it would come on, I'd just cringe. But then when years later when they went to restore the film, they restored my version because that was the first version submitted to them. The people in the labs didn't know which one, so they restored my version.

Justin: Your next film The Panic in Needle Park certainly made a big splash.

Jerry: Yeah. Well, that was sent to me right at the end of my finishing Puzzle, and the film lab scratched the last six minutes of my negative. Screw came loose and just scratched the negative all the way to the end. I had a safety, but you can see the difference when the film changed. Now digital has made it so you can do that stuff, but I was very upset. I got the script for Panic at that same time. I didn't like the script. I don't know if I liked it or not, but I didn't like it in my mind. I was really too concerned about Puzzle and the lab's mess.

Justin: Who approached you to direct the film?

Jerry: My agent. They had the script that Joan Didion and John Dunne had written. They were looking for a director, and she saw my film and loved it. I went to my business manager and he said, “There's a good script around.” I said, “What's that?” He said, “It's called Panic in Needle Park.” I said, “Funny, I think I just turned that down.”

He asked why and I didn't tell him about the scratching. I said, “Drugs. I don't know. Too many friends have died.” We're having conversation and he's trying to talk me into it and he says, “You know Al is interested in it.” I had seen Al with him on stage four or five years before that, and I remember saying to him if I ever made a film, that's a guy I'd like to work with.

Justin: Al Pacino, we are talking about. This was his first movie role?

Jerry: This was his first. He had a small role in Me, Natalie or something like that, but this is his first major role. My agent was trying to get him as a client, so we went backstage afterwards and the difference between seeing him on stage and seeing him backstage, you could see how great an actor he was. On stage, he just blew me away, and then he was this pussycat backstage. I went back, read it again that night. Called up the producers again and told them how foolish I was, and they agreed.

Dominick Dunn was the producer, and he was at a party and he was talking to the publisher Helen Gurley Brown about this film. She says, “Well, that sounds terrific. Why don't you talk to Richard?” Richard Brown was her husband, a producer with Richard Zanuck. So my agent talked to him about the film, there at the party, and then he went and gave him the script. Then they said, “Well, what about the directing. I don't know his work.” So they looked at Puzzle, maybe the beginning and the end, and they said okay. Now I was the  director of his film.

Everything was going fine. We started to do some pre-production. They decided they didn't want Pacino. He was too old. He was thirty-one looking twelve. I said to Nick, “Nick, the reason I'm doing this film is because Pacino is involved.” “I know,” he said, but let's go through the charade of casting and at the end tell them it's got to be Pacino.”

I trusted him, we went through the process of casting, and the last actor that came to see me was Robert DeNiro. He was pretty good.

Justin: That's a tough choice.

Jerry: But then the more I thought about it, for me Al is the character. Even though DeNiro is a great actor and he did a great job auditioning with it, Al is the part. So I left it at that. One day I'm looking in a store window on Third Avenue, and I hear a voice behind me saying, “Man, I really want to do that part.” I turn around and it's DeNiro. It's like a deer in the headlights, and you don't know what to say, so I told him the truth. He looked at me, and he turned and walked away. Through the years, we see each other, “Hi.” That's all. Just like that.

There was a tribute to Morgan Freeman at Lincoln Center. I was speaking and he was speaking. We nodded at  each other.  hey wanted us to come back on stage after Morgan spoke, and so I come out. I was standing there. I forget who I was talking to, but DeNiro walks by me. He stops. He comes back. “Hi Jerry.” It took forty years for him to say “Hi, Jerry” to me. That was it. He would have been great in it.

Justin: Well, I think you made the right choice.

Jerry: Yeah, Al was pretty good.

Justin: People still talk about New York in those days, how New York is not the same. What's your take on it?

Jerry: It's not the same. But you have to adjust. I'm not the same.

Justin: The world is not the same. It's not a change for a better or a change for worse. It's just things always change.

Jerry: Well, for some people it's a change for better. Some people it's a change for worse. There are probably some things I don't like about it. There were less restaurants, and I enjoyed going to the few that were special. Now there are more restaurants, and I enjoy going to the ones that have good food.

Justin: How do you feel about the internet, and how it's taken over everyone's life?

Jerry: Oh, that's changed everything. That changed the whole film world. I haven't done a film in ten years. I've been working on one, but I stopped working because I figure my legacy is going to be in my photographs.

Justin: Yes, do you keep up with what's going on with current photographers?

Jerry: So many that I don't know them. Now that you can take a picture and take it again, and again, and again. I see some wonderful things. People have wonderful eyes. They don't experiment as much, and the ones that do experiment do too much experimenting, doing things that have no soul. They add graphics to them, but they don't have any individual souls. It's tough to find people that can take a portrait like Penn, or get the excitement that Avedon gets in a picture.

Justin: Was there anyone that you wanted to shoot that you never got to shoot?

Jerry: I would have liked to have shot Miles Davis. I would have like to have shot James Dean. But I shot so many.

Justin: You've had quite an amazing life. How old are you now?

Jerry: Ninety-one.

Justin: Any regrets?

Jerry: Of course there's always regrets, but regrets are not anybody else's business but mine. But I've had a good life. I'm not complaining. I've lived a good long life.

Justin: I look forward to your next movie, I hope you finish it.

Jerry: I really like the way it's going. Now that I've finished with the book, we're going to concentrate more on that because I think I've gotten some interesting ideas on it.

Justin: I could talk to you from now til tomorrow.

Jerry: No, you can't.

Justin: I can’t. But I would like to.

Jerry: Let’s call this part one then.

[rebeccahpedersen]

Shouldn’t We Talk About Rent Control?

TorontoRealtyBlog

“A Plan For The People”

I know many of you cringe when you read this.

I hate government rhetoric, and I hate catchy slogans that are designed to solicit votes from the least-informed, who are least-likely to look beyond the surface.  It’s like those who get their news from headlines, but don’t spend the additional sixty seconds to read the story itself.

While many blog readers have told me I’m far too political for what is supposed to be a real estate blog, I have always maintained that “Toronto Realty Blog” covers one topic per word; all things Toronto, all things real estate, and all things that I want to talk about, on any subject, in the blog format.

I have made no secret about my disdain for the Ontario Liberal government, who were mercilessly ousted from power earlier this year.  But I will also admit that one of the last people in the world I want running the province is Doug Ford.

Nevertheless, the PC’s policies are more in line with my wishes for the province, as the fiscal conservative that I am.

C’est la vie.

I monitor the PC’s moves very closely, as I had with the Liberals.  And while I get acid reflux when I see “A Plan For The People,” because it’s just so damn cliché, I have to admit that I’m pleased thus far.

A Plan For The People is a girthy 174-pages long, and I read the whole thing over the course of a couple of weeks.  As with any government manifesto, this one is ripe with self-congratulations, aloof references to would-be policies to be implemented at a later date, and a whole lot of hyperbole!

As a real estate agent, the one aspect of the plan that I find the most interesting is with respect to housing, more specifically, rent control.

Don’t get me wrong – ending “discovery math” puts a smile on my face that could stretch from coast-to-coast.  But I think today, we’ll stick to real estate.

While the “Housing Supply Action Plan” section of the document is devoid of any actual plan, and merely specifies that the Ministry of Municipal Affairs & Housing will launch a plan in the spring of 2019, it does reference the following:

“Since 1992, rental unit construction has not matched household formation. Approximately 20 per cent of Ontario households live in purpose‐built rental housing. In 2017, the level of new rental construction would accommodate only 10 per cent of new Ontario households. If construction of rental units had kept pace with underlying demand, construction would have started on an additional 6,100 units in 2017. 

This undersupply of purpose‐built rental units contributed to historically low vacancy rates in the rental market. Rent control policies that weaken investment incentives and construction activity have played a role in limiting supply growth in purpose‐built rental housing. Strong increases in the supply of condominiums, which until recently were not subject to rent‐control guidelines, have helped keep the market better balanced.

To address these challenges, the government will enact policies to increase the supply of housing across Ontario. Part of this initiative will be the reintroduction of the rent control exemption that will apply to new rental units first occupied after today. This will help create market‐based incentives for supply growth that will encourage an increase in housing supply to meet the needs of the people of Ontario. As well, the government will cancel the Development Charges Rebate Program. This program is an expensive and ineffective method to incentivize new housing supply and cancelling it will result in savings of approximately $100 million over four years. The Province will follow through on its commitment to preserve rent control for existing tenants. This balanced approach will protect existing renters while creating the right conditions to increase the supply of rental units.”

I don’t disagree with any of this, nor do I disagree with the government’s decision to end a rent control policy that was destined to have the opposite effect of what was intended.

However, many people in Toronto are up in arms about the decision, and in my humble opinion, that’s because many of them are grandstanding, and/or don’t understand rent control.

Let’s not forget that Jennifer Keesmat didn’t even know how rent control worked.  And I spoke to people who were present at this meeting, who reenacted her dear-in-the-headlinghts, dropped-jaw demeanour when told that what she was asking for, was already in place.

If you’re like many of us in the city, you read BlogTo and Toronto Life on the regular.  I am no different.

Three weeks ago, when the changes to rent control legislation were announced, Blog TO published this:

“Ontario Government Scraps Rent Control And Toronto Doesn’t Like It”

Again, read the headline, then read the article.

In my opinion, I would suggest the headline should Read “….And Toronto City Councilors Don’t Like It.”

You could specifically add that the left-leaning (I know many of you hate that term, but how would you describe it?) councilors don’t like it.

Here are a few Tweets in response to the announcement:

  This is grandstanding, by very definition.  But what else should we expect?  Left, right, centre – every politician is going to act accordingly, at every opportunity.

The BlogTO article contains this little nugget:

“Experts say otherwise, arguing that scrapping any form of rent control will effectively serve to drive people out of their homes.”

This, I believe, is where the conversation should be.

Not around politicians grandstanding, not around sexy headlines, not around hyperbolic and catastrophic predictions like, “This will drive millennials out of the city,” without supporting evidence, but rather around the economic arguments for and against rent control.

From my perspective, and why I struggle with this topic, is that economists universally agree that rent controls have an adverse affect on the market.  And all the while, politicians use it as an opportunity to fight “for the people,” whether they want to acknowledge the economists’ findings or not.

I have read countless articles and papers on rent control, many are long, and many are complex.  But there’s one I like from the Library of Economics & Liberty, which is a bit dated, but contains a solid economic explanation of why rent controls fail, and I can’t help but enjoy being brought back to the days of examining supply and demand curves.

I’m sure many of you can provide links, essays, et al, and I encourage you to do so.  But this one is short enough to share on this blog, concise enough to drive home the point, and I believe, above all else, fair.

    The Effects of Rent Control

Rent control, like all other government-mandated price controls, is a law placing a maximum price, or a “rent ceiling,” on what landlords may charge tenants. If it is to have any effect, the rent level must be set at a rate below that which would otherwise have prevailed. (An enactment prohibiting apartment rents from exceeding, say, $100,000 per month would have no effect since no one would pay that amount in any case.) But if rents are established at less than their equilibrium levels, the quantity demanded will necessarily exceed the amount supplied, and rent control will lead to a shortage of dwelling spaces. In a competitive market and absent controls on prices, if the amount of a commodity or service demanded is larger than the amount supplied, prices rise to eliminate the shortage (by both bringing forth new supply and by reducing the amount demanded). But controls prevent rents from attaining market-clearing levels and shortages result.

With shortages in the controlled sector, this excess demand spills over onto the non-controlled sector (typically, new upper-bracket rental units or condominiums). But this non-controlled segment of the market is likely to be smaller than it would be without controls because property owners fear that controls may one day be placed on them. The high demand in the non-controlled segment along with the small quantity supplied, both caused by rent control, boost prices in that segment. Paradoxically, then, even though rents may be lower in the controlled sector, they rise greatly for uncontrolled units and may be higher for rental housing as a whole.

As in the case of other price ceilings, rent control causes shortages, diminution in the quality of the product, and queues. But rent control differs from other such schemes. With price controls on gasoline, the waiting lines worked on a first-come-first-served basis. With rent control, because the law places sitting tenants first in the queue, many of them benefit.

Economists are virtually unanimous in concluding that rent controls are destructive. In a 1990 poll of 464 economists published in the May 1992 issue of the American Economic Review, 93 percent of U.S. respondents agreed, either completely or with provisos, that “a ceiling on rents reduces the quantity and quality of housing available.”1 Similarly, another study reported that more than 95 percent of the Canadian economists polled agreed with the statement.2 The agreement cuts across the usual political spectrum, ranging all the way from Nobel Prize winners milton friedman and friedrich hayek on the “right” to their fellow Nobel laureate gunnar myrdal, an important architect of the Swedish Labor Party’s welfare state, on the “left.” Myrdal stated, “Rent control has in certain Western countries constituted, maybe, the worst example of poor planning by governments lacking courage and vision.”3 His fellow Swedish economist (and socialist) Assar Lindbeck asserted, “In many cases rent control appears to be the most efficient technique presently known to destroy a city—except for bombing.”4 That cities like New York have clearly not been destroyed by rent control is due to the fact that rent control has been relaxed over the years.5 Rent stabilization, for example, which took the place of rent control for newer buildings, is less restrictive than the old rent control. Also, the decades-long boom in the New York City housing market is not in rent-controlled or rent-stabilized units, but in condominiums and cooperative housing. But these two forms of housing ownership grew important as a way of getting around rent control.

Economists have shown that rent control diverts new investment, which would otherwise have gone to rental housing, toward greener pastures—greener in terms of consumer need. They have demonstrated that it leads to housing deterioration, fewer repairs, and less maintenance. For example, Paul Niebanck found that 29 percent of rent-controlled housing in the United States was deteriorated, but only 8 percent of the uncontrolled units were in such a state of disrepair. Joel Brenner and Herbert Franklin cited similar statistics for England and France.

The economic reasons are straightforward. One effect of government oversight is to retard investment in residential rental units. Imagine that you have five million dollars to invest and can place the funds in any industry you wish. In most businesses, governments will place only limited controls and taxes on your enterprise. But if you entrust your money to rental housing, you must pass one additional hurdle: the rent-control authority, with its hearings, red tape, and rent ceilings. Under these conditions is it any wonder that you are less likely to build or purchase rental housing?

This line of reasoning holds not just for you, but for everyone else as well. As a result, the quantity of apartments for rent will be far smaller than otherwise. And not so amazingly, the preceding analysis holds true not only for the case where rent controls are in place, but even where they are only threatened. The mere anticipation of controls is enough to have a chilling effect on such investment. Instead, everything else under the sun in the real estate market has been built: condominiums, office towers, hotels, warehouses, commercial space. Why? Because such investments have never been subject to rent controls, and no one fears that they ever will be. It is no accident that these facilities boast healthy vacancy rates and relatively slowly increasing rental rates, while residential space suffers from a virtual zero vacancy rate in the controlled sector and skyrocketing prices in the uncontrolled sector.

Although many rent-control ordinances specifically exempt new rental units from coverage, investors are too cautious (perhaps too smart) to put their faith in rental housing. In numerous cases housing units supposedly exempt forever from controls were nevertheless brought under the provisions of this law due to some “emergency” or other. New York City’s government, for example, has three times broken its promise to exempt new or vacant units from control. So prevalent is this practice of rent-control authorities that a new term has been invented to describe it: “recapture.”

Rent control has destroyed entire sections of sound housing in New York’s South Bronx and has led to decay and abandonment throughout the entire five boroughs of the city. Although hard statistics on abandonments are not available, William Tucker estimates that about 30,000 New York apartments were abandoned annually from 1972 to 1982, a loss of almost a third of a million units in this eleven-year period. Thanks to rent control, and to potential investors’ all-too-rational fear that rent control will become even more stringent, no sensible investor will build rental housing unsubsidized by government.

    Is the piece dated?  Yes.

If you want something more current, there’s no shortage of options.

January 18th, 2018, Bloomberg: “Yup, Rent Control Does More Harm Than Good”

From a policy perspective, even frequent critic of Doug Ford and the PC’s, the Globe & Mail’s Marcus Gee, suggested that rent control wasn’t the best option to deal with the housing crisis, and this was back in April of 2017: “Rent Control Isn’t The Solution To Ontario’s Housing Problem.”

Toronto Realty Blog readers represent the perfect blend of conservative and liberal voices on all things social, fiscal, and economic, so I’m interested to know what you have to say.

The comments on last Friday’s blog were epic; folks like Chris, a blog-regular, going out of his way to provide evidence to counter my thoughts and opinions, and of course where would we be without Kyle, the voice of reason in my chaotic world?

To everybody that posted on Friday – thank you!  Agree or disagree, I loved the commentary, and I respect the efforts.

When it comes to the topic of rent control, I think there are arguments to be made on both sides.  As an economics major in business school, and now a Realtor, I have ample reasons to have landed on the side that I am on.

What do the rest of you think?

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