#i like eiffel and hera and minkowski and lovelace as people. and everyone else is. narratively significant.

[commsroom]

im sure you've talked about this before but what are your opinions on hilbert

hilbert is... a fascinating character. he's an archetype disguised as another archetype, concealing a real person with understandable motivations and sincerely held ambitions. in a way, that's very reflective of how his work has been hollowed out and warped with each iteration of himself he becomes to continue it. hilbert is an insidious type of evil, because his goals are noble and he doesn't enjoy hurting people, but he will carry out orders and rationalize his actions "for the greater good." which makes him an excellent foil for eiffel; hilbert is nothing if not a Big Picture thinker. "you talk about helping people, but what about the real, live people around you?" / "increasingly, i find them to be of negligible importance." etc.

i think it says a lot about wolf 359's character writing philosophy that hilbert's betrayal and big reveal is really kind of his first character moment. he's there for two seasons after that, but he's never redeemed, and his goals never change. what makes hilbert more complex, more real, more understandable, is entirely perspective.

and the tragedy of hilbert, i suppose, is that he sacrificed everything for what he believed was right, sold his soul to the devil for it, and then... wasn't even particularly good at it. he's a big fish in a very small pond, as far as wolf 359 antagonists go. his death virus was never going to be anything but a death virus, and cutter figured that out (and found another use for it) ages ago. in change of mind, he was so certain he had the right answer - of course it was the scientist, his work was threatened - and they wouldn't have made it out if not for fourier, who realized it was really about human relationships. in am i alone now? hilbert's part is the only one where no one else speaks. before he dies, jacobi cuts his comms line, and his final words are a cut off "can anybody hear-?"

so, again... hilbert is a narratively and thematically significant character. this is barely even scratching the surface of that. but do i like him? hell no. absolutely not. he tried to murder hera and then said "tell me you're not mourning that appliance" so i think it's fine that he died, actually. that's how i judge all wolf 359 characters.

[vonkarma2]

literally over a year ago I did a wolf 359 survey with a total 180 responses and then forgot to publish the results 😁 sorry everyone. but I thought I might as well post them now in case anyone is interested <3 spoiler warning also btw

question 1: who is your favorite character

solid mix as you can see, but Hera and Eiffel beat everyone else by a fairly decisive margin

question 2: who is your least favorite character

most people just chose the major villains, though it’s interesting hilbert and kepler also had quite a few people put them as their favorite. by this metric, hilbert is the most divisive character

question 3: which group of characters do you most enjoy to listening to?

I don’t have any commentary this is pretty expected. Fans of the podcast tend to enjoy listening to the group with by far the most screentime

question 4: which group do you find the most narratively compelling?

all the “side character” groups got a bit more attention, but the responses for lovelace’s hephaestus crew doubled. presumably, something about their offscreen tragedy had versus the relatively little of that that was shown in their episode intrigued people

question 5: which group do you think is the most well-written?

si-5’s time to shine, though of course the hephaestus crew was still more popular. it makes sense for 3 people introduced a cohesive team and handled as such for a long time

question 6: which characters do you like as a person? (not as in thinking they’re a good person, but as in feeling some amount of affection for them)

Eris wasn’t added for a while, so the results are skewed for her. Interestingly, Eiffel was more people’s favorite character, but Minkowski got slightly more votes by this metric.

question 7: which characters do you like in the sense that they are well-written and contribute to the podcast’s themes?

The “villain” characters got way more votes in this sense, especially Hilbert, but all the original Hephaestus mission characters except Eris had several fewer.

question 8: which characters do you think are funny?

Doug Eiffel crowned the king of comedy. That result would probably be different in-universe.

question 9: did rachel young killing kepler make you like her more or less?

strong plurality of survey respondents did not care. still, despite the frustrating nature of the death and the unpopularity of young’s character, more people approved of it than not.

question 10: who had the best monologue in Am I Alone Now?

makes sense based on how popular hera was earlier in the survey, especially when her monologue here pertains very strongly to the core of her character.

question 11: is minlace real?

sorry for putting this question on the survey. there were a lot of “yuri”/“ambiguous” or polyamory-based write-in answers

question 12: what is Kepler’s sexuality?

Even more sorry for this question. Pretty even split, but I really liked the 7 pages of write-in answers.

question 13: Did Miranda Pryce have girl power?

Despite being the most hated character, respect for women in stem remains strong among wolf 359 fans.

question 14: if you got to kill one wolf 359 character, who would it be?

basically just the most hated characters again, though seeing the difference between Cutter 23 responses and everyone after him is pretty funny.

so that’s how it panned out :) iirc there’s an image limit on posts, so I’ll do an addition with funny things people said on this in an rb 👍

[nobodysdaydreams]

If Pryce and Cutter hate the youths so much, then why don't they move across the universe to get the marriage counseling they clearly need and stop making their BS everyone else's problem?

(Or my reaction to Episodes 59-60 of Wolf359).

I said I would have self control. I said I wouldn’t listen to or react to anymore Wolf359 this whole weekend. But guess what dear readers? As usual, I lied, to you and myself. Sadly, I am weak. Now, with my confession out of the way, let’s get into it!

Tagging the mutuals who got me invested in this, and if you want to be tagged or untagged from these posts, lmk, or you can follow my blog or simply follow the tag "#bods wolf359 reactions". Anyone who has followed me for a while knows my updates are inconsistent, so I apologize in advance for that and for any spelling/grammar mistakes in my posts.

@sophieswundergarten @oflightningandstars @acollectionofcuriousreblogs @herawell @commsroom @lovelyladylavie

Episode 59: Crash and Burn

"Oh how fun. Come on kids, scream if you want to go faster." It's trippy that when I hear Pryce talk for a moment I'm like "Hera?" and then I realize. Also she and Cutter really do act like criticizing and mean disappointed parents.

"But just a small fire, and look it's out now!" good point Doug.

"This time you finally killed us" Congrats Doug!

"It's a fire on a spaceship, you shouldn't need explicit instruction to know it's a bad idea" "You don't know the first thing about commanding Douglas F. Eiffel" LET HIM KNOW DOUG!

"Cyborg De Vil" Eiffel really does have the best nicknames.

"I'm just a poor little old lady" Oh, I've met old ladies like you Pryce. Terribly entertaining, but awful all the same. Hated their own children too. At this point, I'm just waiting for your sad little backstory.

"Nobody says "thank you" anymore. Kids these days..." Pryce, maybe when you do something worthy of thanks, then you will be thanked.

"If it seems like I'm wrong, you don't have all the data" Well geez, I hope that pride doesn't kill you.

"Why are you asking us to read the values for you?" OH GET HER MINKOWSKI.

Okay, Pryce, in fairness to Doug, I think we've well established that most characters in this show are "metaphorically blind" in one way or another.

"Blinded by my own survival manual" it's fitting to be honest. The next edition? No, we don't need another edition Miranda.

"Well this should be easy!" Doug...Doug when is it ever easy?

Well gang, it looks like the gang's not getting out of this one this time. I will miss you all. Minkowski and Doug most of all. Kepler and Pryce less so.

Calling Pryce's husband is unfortunately the only plan. Let's see how he feels about wifey being in danger. This is either gonna go one of...potentially a few ways, and I'm very interested to see his reaction.

Will he leave her to die in space? Will he feel bad about that? Will he give up an advantage for her?

Wait. Is this Hera? Oh it's Marcus and Hera. I love the juxtaposition between Doug and Pryce and Marcus and Hera. I guess they both have a common interest. Nothing brings people together quite like it.

Oh gross Rachel's here too.

Skin alive whoever designed the flight's pod system? But this is so arbitrary...if all their enemies had been the ones to get blasted off, Cutter would give the man a promotion. For a guy who only promotes "the best" a lot of this is really just luck.

Wait. GUESTS???

Oh they got Lovelace and Jacobi. Oh dear. At least they can't kill or control Lovelace.

"I can't do much without her" I see. So she is the brain's behind Cutter's little happy murder business operation.

"Part of my signature look" Jacobi's sarcasm is growing on me the more he uses it against the right people.

"Pretty please with sugar on top" OH SO CUTTER DID HEAR JACOBI SAY THAT AND THREATEN TO SHOOT KEPLER. I think those were the exactly words he used too.

And speaking of that episode, we're back to singing about beer! 🍻Jacobi really is (formerly)evil Doug. 😂 They even sing the same song.

Is Pryce threatening to...EAT Doug? Well this is creepy.

Pryce, shut it. If you're so much of a grownup, stop acting like a pouty child.

Geez all Pryce knows how to do is complain. I guess Cutter is into that. For some weird reason. "Do I have to do everything around here." All you do is make trouble.

"You can't afford to take a chance on this" CALL HIM OUT JACOBI! I love his arc, I love his arc so much, it took way too long, but I'm so happy he's gotten here.

Oh dear. Is Jacobi in the right headspace for this? "Prettiest pumpkin princess at the ball?" Well good for Jacobi. Also very similar to the line Pryce gave to Hera. It's scary how much they sound and speak alike.

That is true. It might need to be a self-sacrifice mission. If Jacobi misses, Cutter kills him, and Eiffel and Minkowski don't survive. It's a tough situation, especially because we're not even sure how many lives are at stake here. But Jacobi, the whole point of self-sacrifice is that the people making the sacrifice agree to it, or there's literally no other way.

Yeah, Doug, Pryce is not gonna be reassuring. That's not in her generation's vocabulary.

Uh oh. Jacobi, I hope you know what you're doing.

Oh dear. Marcus seems testy.

And how much longer do we have with Rachel and Reimann? (Yes, I was corrected on the spelling).

"Just get it right this time Marcus" wow she is demanding.

Ah...there it is.

...or not...

...Jacobi?

...DUCK BOY?

Well they got them. But what happens now?

Oh great Marcus' slow clapping. And let me guess, he kills him anyway?

Business to catch up on? Pryce doesn't sound too happy.

And yeah Minkowski, hold her at gunpoint! (Though in my experience, people like her don't fear death, rather they complain it's not coming fast enough), but whatever gives you the upper hand.

Episode 60: Terms and Conditions

What's with the beeping?

"You are alright?" Strange that Rachel asks that. I guess she'd be the one to notice he's quiet.

Ah. The sunset. Very fitting.

Westerns. Cutter probably saw some of them down at the old timey picture show when he was a wee lad.

Yes, yes, "the bigger picture". But what if there is a bigger picture to even your story, Cutter? One that you're not in control over?

Cutter knows what's about to happen. He knows it's time to choose. Work wifey or scary evil plan? What's it gonna be old man?

"Who is it?" 😂 I love Doug. I love him so much.

"We could have a cup of tea" oh gosh Cutter really is every old person stereotype.

"Reflect on the working conditions. Are you fostering a supportive company culture? One that values the contributions of its employees?" Doug is the best. Doug is the best.

"If you ever want to see your worst half ever again" 👏 Tell him. TELL HIM.

So now Cutter has to a choice. He can go Legend of Korra and kick Pryce to the curb, or he can drop his tragic backstory and try to come to an understanding.

"Can you guarantee the safe recover of Dr. Pryce?" "96%" Hm. Cutter doesn't seem happy with those numbers.

Special Projects? "Similar to you while still not you. You will see what you miss and say what you don't want to" interesting. So that's why Cutter keeps Rachel around.

"How possible would it be to complete the mission without Dr. Pryce?"

DANNGGGGGGG... Rachel asking the real questions.

"I don't know what your partnership with Dr. Pryce means" Interesting...so Cutter kept that even closer to his chest.

"Before I decide, I want the information" Cutter is unraveling.

See this is why you shouldn't talk when Cutter can hear them.

"Handle this personally?" Did he just crack his knuckles? Is he going to try to fight them? 😂

Neat idea? Is Cutter gonna make his own radio show?

Kepler and Lovelace are speaking for them? This is weird. And unnecessary unless some other mischief is a foot.

CUTTER IS MAKING HER DO THE "MM-HM" 😂😂😂

Kepler reading out Eiffel's words too 😂

Cutter's promises are stupid. And taking the collar off Hera doesn't mean that Pryce can't do something else terrible.

"Those are big promises" That's basic human decency.

"That's one thing. I'm giving you three. What else?"

Kepler and Pryce are two people. I love how it clearly shows Cutter views Kepler, who he's having Lovelace talk to, a disposable.

"You wouldn't lift a finger to help anyone if you didn't need them for something." CALL HIM OUT. CALL HIM OUT. 👏👏👏

"With all due respect to you Warren, that Dr. Pryce's return is worth two of your demands" wow, Cutter just went there didn't he?

"We won't annoy you" "I'm not sure you can promise that" "First off this is...this is your boy, Douggie Fresh at the mic" 😂 I knew it was Doug when he said the "won't annoy you" thing, but having him use Kepler like this is amazing. "Gumming up the works" I love Eiffel. I love his whole speech.

Is Cutter making her slow clap? Cutter and Eiffel really are a theatrical duo.

Reject your terms? Taking advantage of you guys? You should be asking for way more. That's very true. They should ask for way more. They really should. But um...what is Cutter doing???

Ugh. It's like Cutter is still trying to teach them a lesson. Like an evil twisted mentorship figure.

I have a bad feeling about it too.

"You two crazy kids still there?" Shut up Cutter (no offense Isabel).

Cutter is gonna destroy the sol when it leaves. He has a plan to do so.

"No catch" THERE IS ALWAYS A CATCH.

"Talk to us baby" Aw, I'm so happy Hera loves it. 💕🥰

"Tell us who you are and what you're doing up here?"

YES! THE TRUTH AT LAST.

Ah, Doug has figured it out. Cutter is just ecstatic.

"Super old, look like you're 28, no need to sleep or eat, know everything, obsessed with aliens..." Oh Doug thinks they are aliens.

Not a bad theory Doug, but I feel like you're not correct.

I feel like they're about to say something like "no silly Doug. We're not aliens. Don't be an idiot. That would be over the top and ridiculous. We're obviously cyborgs from the past and future who have travels here to enslave all of humanity and rewrite the course of human history. Which is SO much more reasonable."

Also given that Lovelace WAS an alien, it's not that crazy of a guess. They're being a little unfairly mean to him right now.

Modified???? Wait, no, no deal, what does modified mean? Explain that first please, explain it now.

Send Kepler first. Cutter doesn't care about him.

"You want to stay with us" "No Boy" oh dear. Looks like they're in the middle of a little marriage spat. "You'll never be rid of me 214" I knew it, Pryce has a thing for keeping Hera under control.

Yeah, what did Jacobi do? Hopefully that alien blood works quick.

OH WHAT IS THE TEA THE BOOMERS ARE FIGHTINGGGGG!!!!

"Better to be lucky than good" something tells me you won't be for long, Miranda.

Rachel is going with them? Um. It doesn't sound like either of them like that. "Fill you in on the details" that's obviously code for something. I don't like how fast Rachel agreed to that.

Oh dear. Trouble in paradise it would seem. Worried about wifey, Marcus? "Be quiet. I was worried." "For me?" "I was." "You're not immortal" "yet" "of course, I was worried for you."

"Your only task is to back my play" wow. They really ARE a toxic married couple from the early 1900s. I guess Cutter couldn't stand the thought of losing his precious cold detached mean evil science early 1900's house/work wife.

"Friends?" "Partners." Hm.

This relationship fascinates me. Miranda shows him hardly any respect or gratitude. Yet Cutter seems to care about her in a...weirdly toxic way. Though I do wonder if Miranda feels the same.

Very true something has to be wrong here. Cutter wouldn't let them leave unless...

Wait. Unless it was irrelevant to his plans. Unless them getting back to Earth didn't matter.

"That's not why you're not gonna leave" ...um Rachel. What are you talking about? Please fill us in on the plan.

Oh Kepler's here too.

THE END OF THE WORLD?????

Wait...oh my gosh...

So...there will be no Earth to return to? And all the people on it?

ARE PRYCE AND CUTTER TRYING TO MAKE A DEAL WITH THE ALIENS???

Well I did say in a private discord chat that it was odd that they mentioned Minkowski’s husband and Doug’s daughter only to never bring up threatening their lives again. I guess they really saved that one in their back pockets for the grand finale.

Kepler, how much longer are you going to go along with this? If they destroy the Earth, everything on it goes too, including your beloved Whiskey.

Rachel, idk how much longer you think Cutter is gonna keep you around, but he clearly only cares about his evil science arm candy, and that's not you or Reimann. He'll toss you both under the bus when he's done.

Cutter, wifey seems a bit unstable, and Pryce, your man seems to not be valuing you as an equal, and as much as I dislike you, I'm still not cool with that on principle. Perhaps the two of you ought to see to some marriage counseling, somewhere...oh I don't know...far far far far far away on the other side of the universe? Where you two can finally stop having to deal with those pesky youths you claim to hate so much?

Well at least the thing about Cutter naming the AI and putting on a charming appearance and Pryce hating it and acting so cold towards them makes so much sense now. Cutter wants to play house. House where he casts himself in the role of a toxic, stereotypical, controlling, abusive, and terrible father, with a flimsy "I care so deeply" facade and horrible taste in women, but house all the same. I guess it makes sense given when he was born. Pryce views the AI and their employees as things, Cutter views them as their children or rather their "creations" but at the end of the day, their views amount to the same thing: tools from which they demand unquestioning obedience that they can cast aside if and when they chose to do so. Absolutely disgusting.

Wait. 2 hours?

THE LAST EPISODE IS TWO FULL HOURS.

And Volte Face is one hour. But then...when will I have the time to...

oh boy. Stay tuned everyone. Hopefully I'll get my answers soon. Thanks for reading!

[coteriedrables]

Wolf 359 post finally

Getting back to earth, and everyone, realizing that none of them really have anywhere to go.

Eiffel was in jail before mission, Lovelace is an alien clone, who is original was killed in action… technically Minkowski could return to her husband, but who knows at this point he may have moved on thinking his wife was dead.. Hera is an AI and a super computer. She is kind of stuck in her housing.

But Jacobi still had his apartment that he shared with Maxwell… she had projects in there and there probably was a unit that they could transfer Hera to there.

Hera would probably know enough between herself and Jacobi on how to transfer her to this housing just for the time being just until they find something better she doesn’t wanna be too far from her friends

And Eiffel goes with them following like a lost puppy. He doesn’t wanna leave her he has nowhere else to be.

Yeah he could go find his ex and his child but he is in no condition still even with that long, long journey he’s re-discovering himself he doesn’t want to go somewhere where he’s expected to perform in a certain manner quite yet.

Minkowski tries to go home first see her husband they break the story on what happened up there not all of it but the parts that evil NASA minimum… and she tries to rekindle. He’s gone for a while regardless. She keeps the people in charge from bothering her people.

Lovelace maybe follows back to Jacobi’s apartment at first and then quickly realizes she is not meant to settle down she has unfinished business. She needs to go the next kin of her crew. She needs to do anything she has to keep moving. She doesn’t know how to stop.

And honestly, neither does Jacobi.

After a few months Eiffel comes out of Maxwells old room, says good morning to Hera, and realizes Jacobi is gone. He doesn’t question it up, figuring his roommate is off at the store…. or I guess going on some short trip….ooor going on a longer trip I suppose. after a month he decides Jacobi is not coming back for a long while but rents due next week he knows that. He also knows that he doesn’t have any money still… Two days later there’s a letter in the mail

“Eiffel I’m sorry here is rent,” and Eiffel is confused, which admittedly is a fairly common feeling for him, but he doesn’t worry about rent. He doesn’t worry about a lot of things but he worries about everything. But somehow Jacobi has made sure he has enough to get by and to make sure that rent is paid usually with a little extra for a treat according to him…

And Eiffel is confused

A few weeks later, he sends out a call to Minkowski, Have you seen Jacobi have you heard from him? and then to Lovelace, Have you seen Jacobi? Have you heard from him? No one has heard from Jacobi… but it’s December who knows maybe he’ll be back by Christmas

[pomodoriyum]

there was a post about eiffel and now i cant stop thinking about who jacks it on the space station. sorry everyone. anyway heres my list.

eiffel: definitely. frequently.

minkowski: yeah probably occasionally. esp as stress relief

lovelace: much less the more stressed she gets. almost never after she returns to the hephaestus the second time round. maybe she tries a few times as a distraction from the agonies but. it doesnt work. had an average sex drive before she went to space. after she returns idk. probably fluctuates as she figures out how to be comfortable in her own skin again

hera: not sure if she would be motivated to or if she would try out of curiosity? idk heras probably curious about it but doesnt have interest for it?

hilbert: he probably jacked it at least once the first time he was in space. to see what it was like. also i generally feel like he had a fairly normal sex drive when he was under the age of. forty ish. his attitude towards jacking off is that its in the same category of body maintenance as eating, washing, etc. his sex drive during the series is v low. hes too tired and busy with other things

jacobi: probably a few times when he was mad about something. i dont actually think jacobi has that high of a sex drive either way, but hes absolutely into pissing people off / sexually frustrating them. it doesnt necessarily get him going but he does like the rush/sense of power when hes managed to get someone else going and/or frustrated

maxwell: yea she probably jacks off fairly regularly. totally average sex drive. shes like very professional about the whole thing and probably has figured out a way for hera to voluntarily exclude knowing about/being forced to know about it

kepler: i think this guy was so into the performance of his mission/ so intense about command that he wouldnt let himself be vulnerable enough to jack off. maybe like. every once in a while. when everyone else is asleep and hera isnt available to be aware of whats going on. has a normal sex drive on earth though i think

cutter: this guy thinks of sex as a tool. he probably jerks it every now and then but i think hes mostly in the game to see how much he can manipulate people with sex. its closely intertwined with power for him

pryce: probably not at all, since it’s mildly undignified and annoying. she’s ‘improved’ it right out of her system

rachel: shes the one who definitely brought a toy or two with her to space. she jerks off only once in a while though.

riemann: we dont know enough about this guy for me to say. probably jacked it in space though

[itrin]

another wolf359 relisten

bc ive relistened to this podcast maybe four times now and im coming back to it for a fifth time (in 2 years) and i think i could genuinely listen to it 59 times and still enjoy it just as much as the first time

bc holy shit this is such an incredible podcast and i love noticing the tiny details i missed in the previous listens and just absorbing the dynamics again

anyways here's my totally normal feelings and thoughts dumped out, completely unsolicited and without order:

the sound design and production are everything to me; wolf 359 is the only podcast that I dont have to do another to in order to listen lmao I can, have, and do listen to the podcast at the table with my hands folded or eating dinner like I can still be engrossed in the story just by being still too

hearing hera's voice in episode 1 DFHSDKJG she's so...customer servicey and just the sharp contrast between her in the very first episodes and later on in the series; hilberts voice is changed too for the first episodes -- he sounds high-pitched like he's really trying to sell the character of Alexander Hilbert, quirky and unassuming scientist. listening to them when we're first introduced to them, with the knowledge of who they become and what they do, it hits-- all the nuances in voice is just wow. Like Hilbert's mask slipping briefly, the crack in the character, the facade, as indicted by his voice deepening into his real voice sometimes (I think in the empty man episode)

the Empty Man still creeps me out like it did the first time. The Empty Man always gives me chills.

minkowski holding a gun to fiffel's like how lovelace holds a gun to everyone on board with her bomb like how cutter holds a gun to humanity with the decima virus. how eiffel is humanity and humanity was the only thing hilbert cared about

when minkowski says she's never seen eiffel as happy as he looked in the picture he taped under his desk, the one where he's with anne; eiffel's voice when he first talks about what happened with anne to minkowski, flat and forcibly casual, then raw and bitter...oof

minkowski says in mini episode 6 that "my husbands going to kill me" ....gurl..ur husbands going to witness u get killed on tv..and his company covers the story..

episode 38 "happy endings" was very satisfying and I love the dynamic between hilbert and lovelace. and also:

hilbert is such A Character; everything is for progress, for the big picture. he has morals and boundaries but he'll willing to cross them, he has principles and he's willing to compromise; he wanted so badly for everyone under his care to live but they didnt and he started again. there's no humiliation he won't endure for the big picture. lovelace constantly kept getting outraged on his behalf because he couldn't muster up anything besides determination (resignation) -- which I think is the best part of their dynamic, hes cold, dead steel and she's a blazing, dangerous inferno. they hate each other, they're the only ones who know each other, who remembers the first Hephaestus crew. hilbert did care for the og crew, and he cares for the new Hephaestus crew too, but he cares about decima, the progress of humanity, and the big picture most of all

in ep34 when kepler asks eiffel "what's going on, what's the problem?" in that voice, and i-

I had many conflicted feelings about si5. still do and probably always will with every listen. si5 is...recruiting people at dead ends and rock bottoms because they have no where else to go, no one else to turn to, and its all they have to dedicate themselves to Goddard. si5 are people who have nothing else, so they dedicate themselves to each other. si5 have complexes upon compartmentalizations upon complexes and they're callous, objectively bad people but they're bonded stronger than most families. they're trained, loyal and without hesitation, they trust each other and only each other. they were set up to be invincible, and when they fell, it was spectacularly hard.

what's that one post thats like "what makes w359 incredible is that every character is written like a main character" yeah

when "we try not to be monsters. when we can help it" goes to "the hell do you think we are, ups?" and to "*maxwell collars hera*" [insert tearing teeth out noises]

I think about Kepler's pig joke.

I think about someone saying Kepler's laughter is his cry.

I think part of why Kepler hates Hilbert so much is because when si5 kills, its with a purpose and a plan, and Kepler knows decima will go nowhere further than this so to him, the murders are disgusting because they're purposeless

si5's divide and conquer approach from the very beginning was ruthlessly effective holy shit; but at the same time, I cant help but think about how nice it must feel to have someone who understands, to have an advocate for the first time; Hera with Maxwell, and Eiffel with Kepler

on that note, I never understood why, really; every time, I just cant help but think its hypocritical for any of them to feel distress and anger over murder when theyre responsible for the same crime. but thats human, simply put. jacobi has blood on his hands, he killed hilbert remorselessly, but he's in pain and grief over Maxwell's death--and ig the act of murder doesn't protect u from the fallout of death.

god I fucking love Renee Minkowski so much, so MUCH. and the little things too -- refusing to back down from Kepler in that first bit when he interrupts her solitary confinement for help (satisfying, go girl); and also calling out Jacobi for his shit every time, including the fact that he had a choice to disobey orders, not kill Hilbert, and save Maxwell and he didnt make that call. just - I love her

Jacobi once said something like "Kepler doesnt push people past breaking point" and then kepler realizing hes pushed too far when Jacobi tries to force minkowski to shoot him dead. "please tell me you have a plan" said in a shaky voice, ah

truly I dont know where id be without the "Memoria" episode where Hera uncovers her subconscious saying "I cant do this, im not good enough," and then every single time afterwards she does it anyways. always. that episode impacted me..somuch.

this isn't even close to capturing everything, w359 is truly the chefs kiss. but I had to put this out somewhere.

anyways.

[hephaestuscrew]

Do you ever think about Minkowski and Eiffel? Do you ever think about how, even when she didn't really like him, she refused to contemplate the idea of not going out into a solar storm to save his life? Do you ever think about how after Hilbert's mutiny, when everything they thought they knew about the mission had been replaced with dangerous uncertainty, Eiffel was the only person within lightyears that Minkowski could trust, and vice versa? Do you ever think about how he was able to make her laugh in spite of everything? Do you ever think about him saying "At least I have you around to keep me out of trouble" and "The force of your common sense keeps the rest of us insane-os in check"? [cont. below the cut]

Do you ever think about how Minkowski told Lovelace she couldn't imagine losing Eiffel, and then she nearly lost him over and over? Do you ever think about her shouting "No. No! After all the crap we - We still have time!" beside what could have been his deathbed? Do you ever think about her promising not to leave him out in deep space and then yelling his name into the void? Do you ever think about how she had to report him as 'missing in action' on two separate occasions?

Do you ever think about how often he imagined what she would say to him in a crisis? Do you ever think about how his imaginings of her went from just relentlessly berating him (Ep6), to harshly talking him through working out how to survive (Ep30), to reassuring him and telling him not to listen to his insecurities (Ep61)?

Do you ever think about when they were reunited and she hugged him so tightly he could barely breathe and he said "I missed you too, Commander. I missed you too"? Do you ever think about how he never stopped calling her Commander, not when Kepler demoted her, not even when she voluntarily gave up Command to Lovelace?

Do you ever think about how deeply it shook her to learn about his jail sentence? Do you ever think about he couldn't deal with her not talking to him? Do you ever think about when they reconciled, how they stumbled over themselves to apologise, how he said that his past was her business, how they shook on the fact that they were friends and Hera said they were "adorable"?

Do you ever think about how he didn't give a shit about the military chain of command but he would have followed her straight into hell and everyone else on the Hephaestus knew it? Do you ever think about how often and how determinedly he backed her up? Do you ever think about him declaring "there is a special place in hell reserved for those dumb enough to die trying to outstubborn Lieutenant Commander Renée Minkowski"? Do you ever think about how he served as her moral compass and how he reminded her of her values when circumstances almost pushed her into doing awful things?

Do you ever think about how at the beginning of the mission he didn't really listen when Minkowski explained about the importance of the pronounciation of her name, but, after she told him towards the end of the mission how much it mattered to her, he made sure to get the pronounciation of her name right, even when she wasn't there, even in high stress situations like preparing for a leap of faith into a star?

Do you ever think about how he trusted her specifically to convey "all the stuff you tell people back home" if he didn't make it? Do you ever think about when he returned from his journey into the star and he told her "Oh, it's so good to see you" and (according to the script directions) "embrace[d] her tightly, happiness radiating from him"?

Do you ever think about how he said he didn't want to hurt her even as she was beating him up because of Pryce's restraining bolt? Do you ever think about his horrified under-his-breath "No..." when he realised that Pryce was planning to make her step out of the airlock? Do you ever think about his desperate yells for her to snap out of it?

Do you ever think about her calling him "my mischief specialist"? Do you ever think about how he was the one she decided needed to make it back to Earth? Do you ever think about how his survival was more important to her than having his help in the fight against Cutter's plan? Do you ever think about how distressed he was at the idea of leaving her behind? Do you ever think about "Goddammit, Renée, DON'T DO THIS!" / "Goodbye, Doug."?

Do you ever think about how he went from resenting her authority to telling her "It was an honor to serve under you. Sir."? Do you ever think about how she watched him forget her? Do you ever think about the script direction "There's a BEAT for Minkowski's heart to break a little"? Do you ever think about how she reintroduced herself to him but asked him to call her by her first name? Do you ever think about her insistence on seeing him as soon as possible when she woke up on the Urania?

Do you ever think about how she once called him an "insubordinate hyena" and a "conniving little snake", but later told him that he "made it up to [her]. Big time"? Do you ever think about how he went from seeing her as "our resident Statsi agent" to thinking she was "the greatest, coolest, most badass space commander ever"? Do you ever think about how Eiffel thought that "spending time with [Minkowski and Hera] was about the best damn thing Doug Eiffel ever did"? Do you ever think about how, after everything she'd been through, after three and a half years away from Earth, what Minkowski wanted "more than anything" was to be there with Eiffel as he figured things out?

[clonerightsagenda]

I was recently reminded of our 2020 conversation about the Crewmember Stacking Game, which as far as I am concerned is an official zero gravity sport and if I ever write something set in 0g where the crew has room to move and at least semi gets along they will play it. You have been warned.

Kat popular 0g game: how many crewmates can you carry weight is not an issue, positioning and strategy are Hui and Fisher once teamed up with Hui drawing a diagram and Fisher managed to carry the entire crew (minus Rhea of course) it's like human Jenga

Gill Wide shoulders and long arms constitute an advantage Is it cheating if you are carrying a crewmate who is then carrying another crewmate?

Kat no that's valid strategy BUT you have to be able to move and bring all the others with you in some way

Gill Eiffel: Finally! I can be a real life Scooby Doo cartoon!

Kat this started bc someone (probably Hui) was mildly injured and insisted on being carried around until they recovered and then someone was like, but how many can we stack

Gill Hui: Fourier, hold me~ Fisher: she’s busy at the moment, but don’t worry Doc, I can give ya a hand! Hui: This is also fine

Kat pictured: an acceptable Crew Stacking strategy

Gill That is exactly what I was picturing yes

Kat (getting Hilbert onto your stack is extreme difficulty  mode bc he does not want to cooperate) someone, bored out of their mind in s3: any ideas that aren't terrible road trip games? Lovelace: I have one idea Hilbert: disappears into his lab before anyone can pick him up

Gill The Challenges with the New Gang are: Getting Eiffel to hold still Getting people other than Eiffel to participate (ranked in terms of difficulty from least to greatest: Maxwell, Jacobi, Minkowski, Kepler, Hilbert) Overcoming active attempts at sabotage

Kate Ahahahaha

Kat strategy to get each one of them to submit to being stacked: Jacobi - at least someone's paying attention to him Kepler - explain that it is a Competition and his cooperation will make him a Winner Minkowski - explain that if they stack Eiffel he can't be somewhere else breaking things, so she should encourage this for Team Efficacy Eiffel - explain he doesn't have to do work while being Stacked

Gill Maxwell: Get Hera to ask her to play

Kate Minkowski: this is blatant manipulation. It’s not even subtle Minkowski: but unfortunately you’re not wrong

Kat Hilbert - you just gotta catch him there's no easy way out of this one note: you  must have all previous crew members stacked while acquiring new crew members Lovelace, piled with crew members, chasing Hilbert down the hallway

Gill It’s the only time she and Kepler have ever enthusiastically cooperated as Kepler has zero reservations about just reaching out and snatching Hilbert

Kat everyone's just trying to grab one of his limbs Hilbert's like I have never been so disrespected since the time Fourier uncharacteristically put me in a headlock so her team could win the stacking contest

Kate PARTICIPATE in the GROUP, Hilbert! You are a MEMBER of this CREW whether or not you like it or we like you

Gill Fun mishaps include: Lovelace being unable to see where she’s going and receiving conflicting directions and thus ramming everyone and herself into a wall at high speeds

Kat part of the stacking experience it's important to choose who the legs are and who the steering is wisely

Gill Minkowski and Lovelace, the Navigations Specialist Dream Team

Kat Minkowski: Left, left, tight turn - whoops, sorry about the elbow, doctor Maxwell

Kate They have SKILLS and will put them to good use

Gill Note to accomplish this one of them has to be able to see their surroundings with a fair degree of accuracy so if Minkowski gets buried within the stack and her vision is obstructed that’s a no-go

Kat there is not technically a gunner position but Eiffel occasionally lobs shit at hilbert to slow down his escape

Kate Eiffel valiantly taking over: okay okay go left- I MEANT RIGHT I MEANT RIGHT It’s too late and Lovelace has already run straight into a wall

Gill Kepler also tends to try and strong-arm the Designated Legs into following his directions by Yelling The Loudest so I guess if you can’t hear your Chosen Navigator over him that’s also Something Ditto threats of violence if you don’t listen to him

Kate Kepler that’s Cheating >: (

Gill Lovelace got back at him for this when he tried it with her. Used his directions to ram him into something, thereby inflicting totally accidental head trauma.

Kat we have fun here

[crossguild]

people really wanna say kepler's cruel for sending eiffel on a spacewalk to retrieve a bottle of undrinkable whiskey that he jettisoned into space along with all of his other belongings after minkowski tried to freeze eiffel out of the comms room for one tube of toothpaste that she explicitly pointed out hilbert could probably synthesize more of? seriously? i used to at least kind of be on board with 'yeah, kepler's an asshole but he's funny tho' but he is literally less of an asshole than everyone else on the station except maybe maxwell, who is generally nice when she's not doing heinous things to hera, and hera, who is mean but is very justifiably so

like kepler shot lovelace as a fellow soldier while she was part of an active mutiny and while she was goading him into shooting her, which, expected! unsurprising! he said he'd do it and he did! but he's somehow worse than hilbert, who lied to her and acted like her friend while killing her crew, and eiffel, who lied to her, took away her agency by actively forcing the aliens to take control of her body, made her relive her biggest traumas, and badly damaged whatever little trust she had for him in the first place?

like yeah, it sucks to get shot in the head, but she got better and kicked kepler around a little in the next episode, and then was perfectly comfortably playing a game of questions only with him. hilbert hurt her so badly he's the primary cause of her trust issues for the entirety of the series, and eiffel's behavior from the moment they met-- notably not even from when he hiccups method'd her-- was so egregious they had to have a crew-wide intervention about it, which he then immediately made about his own feelings--

i have more respect for people who hate kepler on his vibes alone, because anyone who says his actual canon behavior is worse than literally any other character's didn't listen to the podcast

[dragonfly756]

Why did Kepler call Eiffel his Point man that one time: An essay.

Okay here is the reason I was researching what a point man is.

So there’s this throwaway line from Kepler in ‘Persuasion’ where he says he’s “Not about to waste his point man on such a hazardous mission.” Which is incredibly interesting to me because in a military context a point man would go out first into the most hazardous situation to investigate.And, if necessary, to die so others didn’t. Kepler very much isn’t asking Eiffel to do that....Yet.

See, in the episode, he’s asking Eiffel to stay with him on the Hephaestus while everyone else goes out on the dangerous space walk. So maybe it’s just an Inception reference, or the writers didn’t research some terminology that well, and it’s not that deep? (Probably, but I also feel like over analyzing this a little bit.)

So a point man, right? Characterized by being a scout, taking tons of danger for everyone else, and also, and this part is very important, being ceaselessly loyal....... and also an Inception reference, (Creating a sort of right-hand man connotation into the bargain, if you consider the character of Arthur.) (I could write a whole other essay about the whole point man thing for him but it would get really long if I did it here.) and obviously, Eiffel would appreciate a pop culture reference.

But isn’t that role more suited to Jacobi? I would argue not. Especially after Maxwell’s death, Jacobi quickly loses faith in Kepler, in fact, he seems to blame Kepler for Maxwell’s death more than he blames Minkowski. Kepler was the one to make the orders, even if she was the one to pull the trigger. Although his loyalties to Kepler seem pretty fluid, even after Maxwell’s death he has so much faith in her, I don’t have the exact quote handy, but he says something along the lines of “People like that (Kepler) are there to let people like her (Maxwell) be brilliant.” (And presumably better humanity and all that jazz, really sweet that someone as outwardly cynical as Jacobi has such....Noble thoughts.) Even from as early as the Goddard Christmas party, they seem to back each other up on the most banal of lies. TO KEPLER, no less.

This suggests something really interesting, that Jacobi isn’t Kepler’s point man, he’s Maxwell’s. Even before her death, Jacobi’s loyalty to Kepler is always going to be secondary. And even though Kepler heavily miscalculated how much Jacobi would still be loyal to him after the mutiny, I think he does realize this on some level.

So Kepler needs a new right-hand man, one who already has proven himself to be loyal, and who goes out into danger to scout it out.

Enter.....Doug Eiffel! Who has, A: Proven himself to be extremely loyal on multiple occasions, something Kepler would have witnessed both firsthand when he first picked him up on the Urania, and through Doug’s logs. and B: Had significant experience in dangerous situations. (Again, the whole ‘cryosleep and readjust the tiny spaceship to get in comms range of help’ is something Kepler would have seen firsthand.) and C: Eiffel is viewed favorably by the aliens they’re trying to contact. All of this adds up to a very good point man, if Kepler can win him over.

Which Kepler attempts through......Drum-roll please.....Emotional manipulation!!! Is anyone really surprised? Anyway. He starts by outwardly validating the person hood of both Eiffel and Hera, mainly by yelling at Hilbert a lot, While behind the scenes he has Maxwell put malicious code in Hera and expects Eiffel to eventually die for him if it comes to that.

He also isolates Eiffel as much as possible from other members of his original team.

He assigns Minkowski the most menial jobs he can, and since turning Eiffel against her is frankly a tall order, attempts to turn her against him with the records ‘leak’ of his past.

He gives Hera a new friend who understands her on a level that Eiffel doesn’t.

He keeps Lovelace close, (My personal interpretation of their dynamic is that Kepler views her as an opposing, but largely unattached agent. No loyalty to either him or the Hephaestus crew.) as master-at-arms, but largely doesn’t seem to worry about her.

Since degradation and other forms of manipulation (punishment?) don’t seem to work on Hilbert, Kepler attacks him through the only vector he can, denying him his research. (This serves two purposes, keeping Hilbert in line and submissive, and encouraging Eiffel to like him more. I don’t think Kepler would care that much about Eiffel’s health unless it benefited him somehow, so he uses Eiffel’s bodily autonomy basically as a treat for good behavior. Not unlike how a lot of people treat Hera, actually.)

And Eiffel? He praises him for his resourcefulness, he gives him preferential treatment, doesn’t call him stupid. (This is all heavily conditional on his mood, of course.) He makes himself the one person on the station who will give Eiffel consistent support and doesn’t underestimate his ability. This is all to the point where I think if the contact event had gone to plan, even if nobody else on the original crew survived, and it was just him, Jacobi, Maxwell, and Eiffel? Well, Kepler would be just fine with that. Eiffel would go out first, attempt to communicate with the aliens, and come back, maybe short a few limbs, maybe with some additional trauma, but ultimately fine.

Because beneath all the bluster and pop-culture references, Eiffel is stunningly good at his job.

He’s good at not dying, at thinking on his feet.

He’s made first contact with aliens when no-one else in presumably hundreds of  other missions has.

Because you know what they say, when you’ve got a pig that good.....

[commsroom]

how would the characters do working in a public service job, such as retail? I'm particularly curious about hilbert, kepler, and minkowski.

you know, you can really tell that nobody in wolf 359 other than eiffel has ever worked retail. it explains a lot about them.

it's impossible to imagine hilbert working retail in any context that isn't just. a joke for how out of place he would be. everything hilbert does is for his research, and he considers anything else a pointless distraction. he thinks that "bedside manner is like anesthetic: it just gets in the way of what needs to be done." honestly, i wish i could make hilbert work customer service. it would be torture for him, and he would say the kinds of things to customers that most people can only fantasize about. if you put him in a retail job, somehow, he would still just disappear into a dark storage room to do god knows what. i think hilbert would let people shoplift. he doesn't care.

kepler... could thrive in retail, actually. that's really scary. not that he would like it, but that he's got that kind of personality type and work ethic. the version of kepler who hollowed himself to become the manager of a dick's sporting goods might be worse than regular kepler, for the limited power it would offer him. but stagnation would drive him crazy. kepler really values progress - always working harder, doing more. he doesn't mind being a cog in the corporate machine, but that would be a much less. complex machine, compared to his real ambitions. he would still tell the exact same stories.

minkowski would be very, very frustrated by a job like that, but she would take it very seriously. she would enforce every nonsensical, nit-picky little policy to the letter. she would want to run that place like the navy, for sure, but people wouldn't be scared of her the way they'd be scared of someone like kepler. she's a tryhard people pleaser, and she tries to come across as strict and no-nonsense, but i think minkowski really takes people at their word and it wouldn't be hard for both customers & her employees to walk all over her once they figured out how she operates, and which of her threats are empty. that's what eiffel did. if she wasn't in a management position, it would be even worse for her. she would grit her teeth, and try very, very hard, and she would hate every moment of it.

characters you didn't ask about, but i have to talk about anyway:

i think lovelace would be a relatively cool manager who would take your side if a customer was a jerk to you, and she wouldn't really care about the rules as long as things got done. but it would be difficult for her to hold a lower-level position, unless she had a cool manager.

eiffel is the only one of them who's canonically worked food service (and a whole assortment of dead-end jobs he got fired from within a few months) and he approaches his current job pretty much the same as i imagine he approached his job at pizza hut. he complains about his boss, zones out, maybe even falls asleep. if he could wander outside and smoke, he would. eiffel and hera are really the only two people here who don't have career ambitions. almost everyone else wants something more, in their own ways, but eiffel just wants to clock out, go home, and relax. doesn't really matter what the job is, he just doesn't want to be at work. respectable.

and hera is already doing the equivalent of putting on a customer service voice, seething with contempt, and then going to cry in the bathroom, like, every day of her life. so...

[autisticbisexualemaskye]

*asks you about hera(?) wolf359 being an autist despite not having listened yet like a boss*

ok its like eight am and i havent gone to sleep yet so this might be mildly incomprehensible but okay first of all shes so like. the way people treat her i think is the biggest one. like even her friends who love her they always see her as an Other and as slightly less than human and nobody takes her seriously ever when she talks about how other people hurt her. like with eiffel and his stupid casually dehumanizing jokes or the way hilbert and minkowski and lovelace just refuse to interact with her like. a person. like even the very physical pain she experiences because of hilbert isnt validated because it isnt physical pain in a way the rest of them can understand you know? and also her glitched speech is very autistic of her i think and the way lovelace uses it against her to prove she isnt capable of "basic" things when actually shes been running the entire ship by herself for like the whole series and whats "basic" to lovelace is very different than whats "basic" to hera.

and then theres si5 who treat her like. a person, you know? and everyone else hates them and they kind of dont understand why hera isnt with them on this and like. of course shes their friend but theyve never really stopped to consider how her wants and needs are different than theirs and maxwell *understands* her and its like. idk i dont think allistic people understand what its like to be surrounded by people who, for some inconcievable reason, dont see you as a person on the same level that they are and then meet someone who does and like. idk i really cant blame her for taking the side of the "bad guys". and i think her relationship with kepler is also v intriguing bc of this but moving on thats also why maxwells betrayal hits her so hard u know? like its nothing personal but like. isnt it though? she takes advantage of the fact that hera is an ai to disempower her in a way she never would to the other members of the crew. and jacobis blind defense of maxwells actions is like. hooh boy. nother can of worms and honestly jacobis misogyny and jacobi/hera dynamic is so like. im getting off topic

and also the way she reacts to maxwell confronting her prememoria and during memoria. like she knows something is wrong but she doesnt understand it so she cant ask for help. and i think the whole like "its just her programming" scene was very autistic i know you dont listen to it but trust me on this one.

and idk idk idk this probably makes nosense. but basically it all boils down to the fact that her brain is made of different stuff and, while shes a human being beyond that fact, it affects her relationships with other people and how she interacts with her Own identity as a person to a degree where if you took that out you would have to build her whole character up from scratch. and everything about that makes autism brain go brrr one of us

[tixixis]

I went crazy and wrote out my wolf359 dnd headcannons so. you have to look.

Its long, so its under the cut! i think they’re pretty good n cool :)

Eiffel: very bad at it. Every pair of dice he touches is cursed. He hardly gets into character at first (he names his first character Doug) but then gets REALLY into the rp aspect as time goes on. He makes the most ridiculous characters. Every silly dnd character shitpost ? Ghost written by doug Eiffel. I think he prefers to play humans but also likes Dragonborn, and probably starts out playing fighters but then drifts a bit more into bard territory. 

Minkowski: stickler for the rules. Likes combat. Follows the name guide so always has some True Fantasy shit instead of fun fruity names. She always calls people out on their spell slots and components even though the dm (which I’ll be getting to later) doesn’t care THAT much. Probably plays halflings or maybe even half-orcs! I think she likes to play the cleric but picks whoever will balance out the party best. It’s not for fun, it’s to win. She’s also probably very into the roleplay element though. Her character will probably have a bit too much of her though and end up arguing with eiffel’s character. 

Hilbert: he’s just so stiff. Never does a character voice. He’s read the entire rule book but if he can bend some of those rules to make it easier for himself he will. If it means that he does a good job, he’ll probably lie about a dice roll now and again. He doesn’t care about the purity of the game, he just wants to do what makes him have fun, even if it’s at the detriment of the other party members. He likes to play necromancers. He thinks “magic” is stupid though. Likes to play gnomes or dwarfs.

Lovelace: probably had the lasting impression that dnd is only for hardcore nerds, but got roped into it. Shes decent, she’ll probably do anything that’ll piss someone else in the party off while everyone else thinks it’s funny. Gets surprisingly good dice rolls and everyone thinks she’s cheating but she’s not, just unnaturally lucky dice. Her character falls to 0 hp the most but always has successful death saving throws. She likes to play tieflings but they’re always taken by jacobi or maxwell and Minkowski won’t allow more than two of each race so she usually plays a half-elf 

Hera: HERA DMS. Well, and maxwell sometimes. But mostly Hera!!! She’s a really good story teller and always knows when Hilbert cheats because. Duh. But she lets him get away with it cause thats how he has his fun but one campaign she just calls him out EVERY TIME so he stops trying. Before she starts a campaign she gets eiffel’s help a little bit cause he’s a surprisingly good story teller, but she’s really good at keeping track of details and World building. Doesnt do very many npc voices though. 

Maxwell: she is the biggest dnd nerd ever. She’s played it since highschool. She loves to dm but also to play so it’s always a moral dilemma, but Hera likes to dm a lot more than play so she usually takes the player role. When she dms she goes HAM. SO DRAMATIC in the best way. Makes stories that’ll really hit your heart. When she’s playing, she always makes a ten page backstory for her character. She loves to make an in campaign BFF with her character if that makes sense? Sometimes she gets so into it when they’re done she still talks in her character vocie a bit. She likes to play elves and teiflings, and probably rouges mages or wizards, but she’s done every class at least once.

Jacobi: started playing with maxwell when they met. He tends to match her energy, he also loves it. Theater kid, duh! He hates combat. He takes the best notes, and knows everyones character better than they do. He likes to play a barbarian or a Druid, and a tiefling or a firbolg. He likes to talk to EVERY npc and really tries to get kepler into it. Speaking of which... Kepler... 

Kepler: he. Hates. Dnd. He doesn’t get it! Why does have to have a character. Why does he have to do a dumb voice. There’s more than a six sided dice? LOVELACE IS CHEATING! I SWEAR! He becomes the target of the group because they all like to rile him up. He’ll sometiems leave in the middle of a session. Plays whatever character he makes maxwell and Jacobi make for him, which can be anything from a warforged to a human. They usually give him the same class though so he knows it, probably a fighter.Message #general

[everwizard]

Back to the Present

Summary: After arriving back on Earth, Hera and Minkowski try to return Eiffel's memories through movie nights. Tonight's movie is Back to the Future.

Words: 1,374

Warnings: Spoilers for Back to the Future

AO3 Link

Eiffel sits down on the sofa. He looks at the blank screen in front of him. He doesn’t know what he will be watching today. It’s a surprise. It’s always a surprise.

They had gotten off of the Urania seven months ago and ever since, Hera and Minkowski, or Renée, or whatever he was supposed to call her, had been trying to return his memories to him. He started with the tapes but finished them quickly. He couldn’t understand half of what the previous Eiffel was talking about at the time and so his friends decided to bring him up to speed on over thirty years of pop culture.

Movie nights like this were frequent. Sometimes Lovelace and Jacobi would join if they were interested in the film and/or in the area but tonight it was just the three of them.

“I’ve got popcorn!” Minkowski announces as she moves into the room. She sits down next to Eiffel, handing him a bucket of the salty snack. “Hera, will you turn on the TV, please?”

“Of course, lieutenant,” the sentient AI replies. The television flickers to life, displaying the brand logo before switching to a DVD menu screen.

Eiffel reads the title. “Back to the Future, huh? Some sort of time travel movie?”

“Yes!” Hera proclaims. “I chose this one this time.”

The group had long since finished Star Wars, Star Trek, Indiana Jones, and several other action-filled franchises of various genres. Today they were starting the 1980’s time-travel trilogy that, as always, Eiffel knew nothing about.

Minkowski presses play on the menu and the movie begins.

The movie opens with the ticking of dozens of clocks and Eiffel settles into the sofa with his popcorn.

The characters seemed interesting enough to Eiffel. Marty, the teenager with a knack for music, was the run of the mill high schooler. Eiffel wondered what high school was like. Where was he on the social ladder at that age? And Doc Brown, the eccentric scientist of unknown origins whose mind was on a totally different level than his peers. Was that what this Hilbert guy was like? Probably not. The Doc never killed anyone. Probably.

Eiffel watched with attention as, through a series of mishaps, Marty ends up in 1955 with no way back.

The mentions of aliens brought Eiffel's thoughts to Lovelace.

"'It's mutated into human form', huh? Remind you of anyone?" he says.

"Eiffel, do you have to make a Lovelace joke every time we watch a sci-fi movie?" Minkowski asks, pausing the movie.

"What? Come on, they're funny!" Eiffel exclames.

“No they’re not, Eiffel,” Hera chimes in. “Now shut up, I’m trying to watch.”

Eiffel scoffs, “Can’t you know this whole movie instantly?”

“Well yeah, but that goes against the whole point of movie night,” Hera sighs. “So I set my television processing power down to your human brain levels.”

“Alright, fine. Let’s keep watching then.”

Minkowski rolls her eyes and resumes the movie.

The trio sit in comfortable silence as the film continues. Well, Eiffel and Minkowski sit. Hera exists as a large house.

As the movie progresses, George gets beaten by Biff, George gets beaten by Biff again, and, you guessed it, George gets beaten by Biff a third time. Eiffel dedicates his full attention to the movie, determined to learn the secrets of his past.

His attention returns to the world around him when he hears Minkowski snicker to his left. He glances over. “What’s so funny?”

Minkowski hides her face. “What? Nothing.”

“Hang on, wait. You’re actually enjoying this?”

“Of course not. I would never enjoy something as cheesy as this.” Minkowski scoffs.

“Come on,” Eiffel prods, “what was it? The Darth Vader reference?”

“What? No.”

“The Vulcan reference then.”

“Absolutely not.”

“She’s lying,” Hera chimes in. “It's definitely the Vulcan joke. Her Command Authentication Code was literally Vulcan.”

Minkowski flushes. “Hera! Who’s side are you on?”

Hera laughs. “I’m on my own side.”

Minkowski sighs. “Fine, it was the Vulcan joke.”

“Wait a minute,” Eiffel starts. “Is this why we watched Star Trek first? Are you that big of a Spock fan?”

“No…”

“Lieutenant,” Hera warns.

“Fine!” Minkowski bursts. “Fine! I'm a Spock fan. Is that what you wanted to hear?”

“Minkowski! That’s so cool! Why didn’t you say something before?”

“Eiffel,” Minkowski sighs, “the last time I brought up one of my interests, you laughed at me.”

Eiffel’s face falls. “Oh,” was all that he could say. Did he really laugh at her? At his friend? What had she confided in him that he just blew off like that? Mocked her for? His past self must have been a real asshole.

Minkowski notices Eiffel’s change in demeanor. “Eiffel…” she starts. “Doug. You were a different person back then. You’ve more than made up for it by now. If it weren’t for you, we wouldn’t even be here right now. On Earth. You made the biggest sacrifice of us all and I’m…” she hesitates, “I’m sorry for hiding this from you.”

“No Renée, I’m sorry. I’m sorry for everything I did to you. Back then. I was a real dick, wasn’t I?”

“Doug, you don't have to apologize. You were a different person. You don’t have to apologize for things you don’t even remember.”

“But that doesn’t excuse what I did. I was—”

“But you’re not anymore. You are a new person now. You’re my friend and nothing is going to change that.”

“Are you sure?”

“I’m sure,” Minkowski smiles. “Are you ready to keep watching?”

“Yeah. Let’s go.”

The movie resumes and everyone continues watching in silence.

Everytime Doc brings up not wanting to know his future, Eiffel cannot help but to think of his past. Who was he, really? The tapes only covered the last three or so years. He was never going to be able to get the rest back. All he knew from before the Hephaestus was what he said in the tapes. Besides his daughter, there wasn't much else there. He didn't even know how he ended up on a space station to begin with. He somehow got out of his prison sentence and that was all he knew.

His train of thought is interrupted when Lorraine begins trying to make out with Marty. “Woah, woah, woah! That's his mom. Is this guy really kissing his mom?”

“Technically, his mom is kissing him,” Hera answers. “But it doesn’t really make it that much better.”

“It really doesn’t,” Minkowski agrees.

Eiffel nods. “This is weird, even for me.”

Hera laughs in agreement. It was indeed weird, even by Eiffel’s standards.

“Hey, you picked it,” Eiffel points out.

“I’ve never seen it before!” Hera argues.

“Well that's fair, I guess,” he says, returning his attention to the screen.

Marty was fading from existence. His actions were causing him to be erased from history. Eiffel begins to think how that is going to affect Marty going forward. To almost die. To almost lose yourself forever.

Well, for Eiffel, it wasn’t an almost. The old Eiffel did die. The new Eiffel did lose himself forever. There was nothing left for him to remember, no matter how badly he wanted to.

Eiffel returned his attention to the movie once again. If he missed parts then he’d have to watch it again, which would slow the whole process down. So he paid attention again.

Marty safely arrived back to the future. He and all his friends were alright. The Doc survived. His family was happy. His girlfriend loved him.

Eiffel had arrived back on Earth in much the same fashion. His crew was alright. Almost everyone had survived. His friends were happy. And he had people who loved him. Everything was going to be alright.

He would never get all his memories back and that’s okay. He had his friends and they were going to help him. They would do what they could but ultimately there were always going to be blanks.

This was his chance to start over. To be better. For Hera. For Minkowski. For himself. For Anne.

He would fix his past for a better future. Just like Marty McFly.

The credits began to roll and Eiffel sighs, "So when are we gonna watch the next one?"

[dementedgnomicwizard]

celestriakle replied to your post “oh my god i fucking HATE the wolf 359 finale no podcast has ever made...”

Man I feel you. Personally I didn’t see a tpk coming and for me that probably woulda been too dark, but I remember feeling so weird about the ending as is, it was just, uncomfortable? It felt like they were trying for a happy ending and def did not get there, there was for sure a balance off. (Keeping in mind I listened like 2 or 3 years ago probably)

yeah i think it was maybe me being used to/having a preference for slightly darker fiction generally gfdhsjkhf i like stuff that’s humorous and doesn’t emotionally fatigue you but the stakes are high as hell and you know that none of the characters are ever 100% safe regardless of how much of a main character they are yk

ok i just started writing and then it got Long so i’m putting this under a readmore, ALSO HUUUGE SPOILERS UP AHEAD OBV FOR ANYONE WONDERING

what put that idea in my head initially was when eiffel almost got sent back to earth and turned back—in my head i was like ah, okay, so that’s the moment where he makes his Choice to come back no matter the cost, they’re gearing up for an Ultimate Sacrifice ending. (now looking back i’m like.... well. i Guess that’s still what was going on but.... lol.)

i assumed that for most of the episode the plan would be “stop goddard+kill cutter pryce and young, get home,” and that towards the end it would become clear that there wasn’t enough time/options/whatever to accomplish all of the above (either that they would succeed in killing cutter+price+young but in order to finish it they’d have to stay on the station as it crossed the red line or something like that, or that they would realize there were no options left besides destroying the station with everyone on board) and they’d have some touching moment as a crew where they reflect on all the development they’d undergone as people throughout the journey and all things considered are pretty gung-ho about accepting what has to happen.

it just feels (to me) like the logical and satisfying conclusion for their arcs! they finally have ALL the answers they’ve been looking for, they’ve succeeded in stopping goddard, etc. for lovelace it would’ve been a pretty kick-ass “the captain always goes down with the ship” moment and honestly a well-deserved /rest/ after everything she’s been through and all the loss she’s witnessed (because... um... can she die? now? of anything? bc it doesn’t seem likely, and ‘going back to earth so i can settle into a normal life again and then watch everyone i know get old and die around me while i stay alive because i’m not fully me anymore’ feels like ... kind of a really cold and sad ending for her, considering everything). 

for hera it would’ve been a chance to (once again) reaffirm her humanity and just how much she’s progressed beyond what goddard tried to make her be; a really excellent final fuck-you, ESPECIALLY if the nature of the TPK in question was like “hera has to initiate the self-destruct and pryce is alive to witness this but powerless to stop her for once.” 

for jacobi... i mean... like am i forgetting something or did they just not really bother establishing much information about like, what jacobi has to return to on earth? bc it seems like blowing the station could’ve been a way for him to 1) let go of a lot of his guilt/grief over maxwell and 2) a salute to kepler for his efforts (assuming that by the time the TPK happens kepler has already been revealed as a double-double agent + swooced out the airlock)

for eiffel it would’ve been a good conclusion to the Massive amounts of development he had; he spent the entirety of the show slowly and painfully learning how NOT to be an asshole/selfish/basically everything that he Was that contributed to destroying his life on earth care about, and how TO Show Up For the people around him despite getting off on the wrong foot initially. he arrived on the hephaestus as a (mostly) well-meaning but self-absorbed jackass with virtually no concept of boundaries or self-restraint, and by the end of the show he’d Realized this about himself and put in a colossal amount of hard work in order to Be Better... and then at the very peak of that arc, which the audience and the characters themselves have invested so much time and energy into, the decision is just to... throw all of it away? IT’S JUST GDFKSJGHFDK SOOO MUCH MORE FRUSTRATING TO ME THAN IF THEY’D JUST STRAIGHT-UP KILLED HIM because they try to dance around it like “Ahhh but IS he the same person anymore... who can never be sure.... maybe it’s a second chance....” but that logic just doesn’t WORK given the questions+answers about what makes up one’s humanity/personality as established AT LENGTH by like everything else in the show!! according to everything we’ve learned so far from hera/maxwell/pryce etc as they address these questions through the lens of the AI system, the answer to “are you still the same person if you’re physically unchanged but every single one of your memories is altered or removed?” is a resounding “NO.” i hate it when writers spend their entire story establishing certain rules/information/logic and then suddenly make decisions that completely fly in the face of all of it and think it’s a “subversion” when really what that’s called is “a bad writing decision.” i genuinely think they were just too hesitant to actually kill him so they tried to do “the next best thing” but it just... didn’t work the way they wanted it to. i’ll elaborate more on why i think they would’ve been afraid to kill him (beyond just “he is the beloved main character”) in a second 

for minkowski... i mean... from a character/writing standpoint, if lovelace, hera, or eiffel (not including jacobi here only bc i don’t think they were QUITE close enough by the end for his death to have caused her As Much guilt as the other three would have) died during the finale then minkowski would almost definitely have to die as well, bc her primary motivation as we’re all very aware is to ensure the safety of her crew above all else; i don’t think there’s a universe where minkowski is okay with leaving herself if all three aren’t with her. BUT i think this became a corner that they wrote themselves into with her by the end, because then (i assume) the dilemma became “well, as much as we might like to, we basically can’t kill off any one single other character, because it will cut minkowski’s strings” WHIIICH is why i think they couldn’t go through with killing eiffel. 

ANYWAY. YEAH. ALL THIS TO SAY for me personally an ending where the characters all have to sacrifice themselves, but it’s a choice they arrive at together easily + something they welcome and accept without much sadness/regret because they’ve done everything they could (and, in the case of those crewmembers w active ties to earth, successfully ensured the safety of their loved ones on earth) would’ve made a lot of sense and been satisfying. i’d be sad, definitely, but in an “this story and characters were excellent and i’m sad it’s over” way more than a “wait i’m so frustrated by this ending that can’t possibly just be It” way

[palukoo]

so a couple months ago i relistened to w359 and made a 18000 word document while doing so containing iconic quotes, my reactions, feelings, et cetera. heres some highlights with varying amounts of context. (theres lowkey spoilers for the whole series btw)

""""i empathize too much""""

crazy how i still vividly remember walking outside [my old job] and to starbucks while listening to the spider ep... trauma

i mean i dont love it but it makes me feel things

GABRIEL THATS TOO ON THE NOSE

"let me have my badass space chick victory cocktail"

god like i AM team what wrong with handcuffs but I WOULD NOT HESITATE to kill hilbert for hera

the girlssss are fightinggg

THE SAD W359 MUSIC IS KILLING ME

like memoria who maxwell who jk jk

i love you renee minkowski marry me

local idiot's heart is in the right place

HARPOOOOOOONSSSS

lovelace lovelace lovelace loveLACE LOVELACE

"maybe she's some kind of clone thing" EIFFEL... this is day 1!!!

i hate these self sacrificial idiots

no no no not this music again ill cry

yall are so emotionally stunted it fucking hurts but damn if you dont care

literally how are they still alive

i want to hug her so much omg

alan rody shut the FUCK up im crying

rip zach valenti's throat

face the death reality via math

jacobi being a piece of shit

maxwell said lets kill hilbert rights

this is a kepler hate blog

minkowski thinking her emotions dont matter to the mission oh ho ho

"youre gonna straighten up" cutter they cant theyre not straight

maxwell and jacobi show up and blow up lads

"and you should really be more careful with your queen" KEPLER WHAT DOES THAT MEAN

wolf 359 stop making me stan these literally terrible people

FUNZO FUNZO FUNZO

i am caring about men tonight lads

theyre both awful sure go ahead have history

hilbert you interrupted their emotional moment they wouldve had a MOMENT

hera said im gay

ohhhh nooo interpersonal conflict makes me sad

hug minkowski rn

FRIENDSHIP IS MAGIC jacobi and maxwell are iconic

minkowski how did you not kill him

how much do yall use the words "good enough" and "cant"

"are you an alien" GOD the Hints

"one of our... sexier jobs" vs "this is gonna said less sexy after that"

eiffel stop cockblocking them

y'all's choice of pronouns IS illuminating

PROTECT HERA AT ALL COSTS

aw eiffel... minkowski... communication is KEY

oh yeah THATS what the psi wave regulator is for.... SURE

hilbert read the room

JACOBI you can't just describe minkowski like that without giving me a heart attack

how many times have all these bitches almost died

SORRY ANYTHING THEY SAY I LOSE IT

oh minkowski finally flipped (VALID)

oh wait that fact isnt fun at all and im literally crying

LIKE sometimes you save someone's life at great personal risk only to kill her a little while later

minkowski cries to “back to before” from ragtime

i feel to many things about the gals here idk what to tell you i love them thats the problem

its gay and it hurts!

lovelace laughing at people who can and will kill her... hot

OH WERE STARTING LOVELACES SELF SACRIFICE ALREADY

they let lovelace say FUCK

OH WAIT NO I FORGOT ITS WORSE

THANKS FOR MURDERING ME WITH YOUR TEARY ANGRY VOICE

ouchie anyways gay or no but also gay

hilarious and sad at the same time?

MAXWELL dont be a bitch... i expect this from jacobi and honestly i actually expect this from maxwell too but i dont like it

NO NOT THIS MUSIC

BROTP BROTP BROTP

i cant say anything else im too busy crying

UGH I COULD WRITE ESSAYS ON MY THOUGHTS ABOUT THIS THE MESSAGE THE TAKEAWAY BROADLY THE PERSONAL EMOTIONAL ANGUISH THE DESIRE TO HUG HERA ITS

im mad but thank you... all of you... explain... 

stop stop stop im literally so tense gone straight from sobbing to freeze instinct

GOD I HATE ALL THESE SURVIVALS GUILT IDIOTS

OH theyre all about uncertainty... the what ifs... okay... ouch ouch ouch

give everyone awards for bolero

eris are you gay

she said gay rights and AI rights

like i know i know we been knew but goddard really is so awful

Hera stop narrating Lovelace’s ongoing existential crisis

HOW IS THIS NOT GAY (I know how it’s not gay but. Let me have this)

KEPLER stop giving Lovelace insecurities and existential crises

Team back off lovelace for the win

like not to be dramatic but her arc is beautiful

oh boy thats my girlsssss

THATS FLIRTING MINKOWSKI

god i love that concern for your gf keep it up minkowski

COMMUNICATION? WITH THIS CREW? BOLD

GOD angrey hera is great

you know hera is having the time of her life witnessing it

eiffel you just ruined their romantic moment

minkowski is gonna kill them

a much better gayer more altruistic light

WE’RE ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT COMMUNICATION

WAIT I WAS BEING CANON DAMN I THOUGHT I WAS BEING CREATIVE AND PERHAPS OOC BUT IM IN THE CLEAR I GUESS

god hera has needed to snap at eiffel for so long

i can already feel myself about to get hit with the tears... the emotions

that shit hits different renee

The implications that Goddard like destroyed global warming omfg

it’s the moral grayness babeyyy

when it hits you with minkowski's shaky sigh first thing you know its gonna hit different

MINKOWSKI i need you to. love yourself as much as i love you

GOD the mutual concern they always have for each other is touching whether or not you think its gay. i think its gay

HERA WOULD YOU ASK A COW TO NOT BE A COW

oh of COURSE they cut coms first

lovelace is man, butterfly is quote, it says "is this flirting"

jacobi i need you to chill

but jacobiiiii thats lovelaces schtick

oh eiffel... you fucking idiot who gets really lucky sometimes

this game of chicken where theyre both chickens and kepler doesnt know any of that and each of them only know half

minkowski said im an ethics teacher now

who taught minkowski empathy in high stress situations?

yeah so i stay hitting the nail on the head

“kepler SHUT UP” is what brings everyone together

this is, como se dice.... kinda gay

this statement does not bode well for that

“Maybe less talking to yourself” he says to himself

ugh, to be Pop Culture Man™️

RACHEL i love you even tho I also hate you

Rachel if you make one more hand joke I’ll lose my mind

HER NAME!!!! IS HERA!!!! And I love her!!

i have a vivid mental image of post-series eiffel doing stand up like chris fleming style 

"my crew has made it very clear through a series of looks and gestures that one more slip up and i am out, thats it, so im taking this job very seriously"

"minkowski is very overprotective in a weird, erratic way, like when your seat belt randomly locks and its like i appreciate what youre trying to do but im going 4mph in a drive way."

"so when something like this happens you have to at least consider going away for a long time and living on a cursed space station"

"you know how when maxwell and hera are talking ive never felt less needed, you know, like ‘cause you guys would be totally happy alone on a rock in the middle of a lake"

"this is the kind of body you look at and go he'd probably be ok in space without a space suit"

the whole "theater kids" video is actually him going off about minkowski

minkowski is too swole for her own good

jacobi im gonna need you to take the redemption arc more seriously

i love my crazy crazy bitches

this FUCKING music

GOD HOW DOES PRYCE JUST ALWAYS GET WORSE

she just like mutilated that man he is doa absolutely destroyed one hit ko

can you tone down the gay, sweetie

you did it you broke rachel and Goddard down to their bare essentials

GOSH shes so AWKWARD 

so damn jacobi was just IMMEDIATELY ride or die for maxwell

this is too much for my poor baby heart

pryce & carter literally are just like lets do eugenics, lets do genocide

when hera says ill pull a yall and sacrifice myself for minkowski and lovelace 

god like cant believe KEPLER got a redemption arc (well not arc but you know)

ah yes the most tragic scenes all take place at once :)

I HAD TO STOP LISTENING TO BRAVE NEW WORLD CAUSE IT MADE ME TOO CRAZYYYY

THE SCRIPT SAID IT NOT ME

i love space moms!

this fucking music ALAN RODY IM SUING FOR DAMAGES

like the document also does have a lot of like deep thoughts and meta and parallels and discussion of motivations but this is just fun random things i said