#i think her arc in s4 and continuing into s5 is really interesting

[stfuimprojecting]

Hey, I’ve really enjoyed your 911 posts but your last one was very hurtful and came across as victim blaming. Maddie left due to mental illness, she didn’t choose to leave anyone.

it wasn't my intention to impart blame onto maddie for leaving, i fully understand why she left and the reasoning behind it

but she did leave, and by doing so she does leave buck, chimney and jee yun

that's not to say maddie is a bad person, she's someone who is hurting and is acting on that hurt

we see that maddie struggles with self blame and insecurity and not feeling good enough. she's depressed, she feels alone, she's scared. scared that she's a bad mother, a bad partner. she's scared that she does more harm than good. she's scared of herself. so she runs. and i get why, she thinks that by removing herself from the equation then she can't hurt anyone. and hopefully her time away gives her a chance to recuperate and heal, lord knows it's what she deserves

but that doesn't mean that she's free of consequence, her actions impact those around her and hurt the people around her. we see that her leaving hurts the people she loves, even though they understand why she left

i love maddie. she's one of my favourite characters. i don't blame her for running, i deeply understand the want to run. i understand that mental illness can be so overwhelming you can't think straight, you can't stop to consider the consequences of your actions. maddie's mental illness is the driving force for why she chose to leave. but that's still a choice she made. mental illness provides the context and the reasoning, but when all is said and done, you have to take ownership of the decisions you've made and the subsequent fallout, whatever that may be

[annabelle--cane]

there's a lot going on in the mag 58 supplemental, this one little scene does a lot of heavy lifting to set up martin and tim's arcs for the rest of the show, but I want to focus on these lines particularly because of how therapy comes back as a symbol in s4/s5.

broadly, in the context of the meta plot and not the individual statements, seeking therapy in tma is representative of trying to improve oneself and get out of a bad situation. later, when taking melanie to therapy, georgie suggests that jon should get some as well but, when asked, says she wouldn't be willing to escort him like she does with melanie, showing how she does wish the best for jon in theory but doesn't think he actually wants to get better, or at least that she's not sure enough to involve herself with him.

that view of jon doesn't come from nowhere, because here we have an instance of him rejecting that same offer, symbolically rejecting help in favor of digging himself deeper on his own (obligatory disclaimer that irl therapy is a very personal thing and says nothing about one's overall character, this is just an examination of a motif in fiction). the word choice of "he just says no" imo implies that martin has suggested this multiple times and jon keeps giving the same answer, continually reaffirming that he does not want outside assistance to pull him out of this spiral.

the fact that martin's the one advocating to go soft on jon despite repeated refusals for more sympathetic help is interesting to me, because I would guess that this conversation was instigated by jon aggressively confronting martin about trevor herbert two episodes earlier. we know he was stalking all three of his assistants, but that is the biggest and most threatening outburst we get from jon in this period, and in this conversation it is still martin being defensive and apologetic vs tim being frustrated and pissed off.

I've said recently that I'm pretty sure martin believed jon was self harming and/or suicidal at this point, so I can see why he would be particularly willing to give jon slack and try to prevent any big conflicts, but that still contributes to his current narrative role of "guy who is treated the worst but ignores it because he's also the guy who cares the most." in that way, he's a foil for georgie; she cares, sure, but not enough to ignore (perceived) risks. martin pushes for jon to get therapy even as he lashes out and rejects help, and georgie won't involve herself when jon asks if she'd be willing to help him see a therapist.

this motif comes back around for a final complication in s5, when laverne, melanie's therapist, winds up as part of her cult. melanie's effort to get better and get out did have lasting effects, she is separated from the watcher/watched system and is coping a whole lot better than she would have before, but those personal efforts still weren't enough to fully get her out of the whole mess. no amount of individual action could remove her from this structural problem, her therapist helped her a lot but also now thinks she's a prophet.

which also comes back to the above scene. tim and martin both write off elias as useless in this situation, so they start sniping at each other and talking about how to stop jon from doing what he's doing without even really lingering on how the guy who is actually in charge and has power over them all is making it worse by neglecting his managerial duties. I'm sure jon could have done with some therapy at this point, but that would have only dealt with, like, 10% of the archive gang's current problems.

[epiphainie]

you thought eddiesol was a good endgame? girl... /j

Lol anon, I had to go back and find what this was about.

I assume it's about me saying I thought Eddie's S6 ending was good? Which does not mean I think Eddiesol is a good ship/couple! What I meant was prior to S7 recontextualizing that relationship and more broadly Eddie's character arc, I think him reaching out to Marisol served a good enough narrative purpose.

We've seen Eddie in S2 as this single dad who's in a tumultuous marriage. Then we see his wife die so tragically with so much left unsaid and unresolved between them. Then we see his immediate reaction to that loss and traume in S3 with the fight club Eddie. S4 is when he seems like he's moving on but he's doing everything for Chris, like the relationship with Ana which he only continued because Ana got along with Chris. Then we see him get shot which brings out so much more bs from his past he needs to deal with like his PTSD over his time in the army. Leaving the 118, then coming back, we can say that at the end of S5 he (for story purposes) processed all of that. He's in a good place in S6 but he still shields behind what Chris wants and needs to actually live for himself. The 118 even makes fun of him for not knowing how to date because between being a teen parent, the army, then a single parent he didn't really live for himself. Him reaching out to Marisol, in this case, is a good cap to his character arc. Not because I think Marisol is the great love interest for him but because his happy ending to me (at that point at least) is more about him healing enough to start living for himself. Marisol is kinda nothing as a character - even less so back then - but as a plot device (heh) she serves her purpose. It doesn't matter whether Eddie stays with her post-canon, they don't exist once the screens go dark. But what matters - Eddie's arc - feels complete for him.

I can't say this for Buck's S6 ending for example. That's why I feel like they kind of had to regress with Eddie in S7 whereas for Buck it felt like a second chance to get his romance arc right. I have more thoughts about this but this answer is already long lol.

[kpchrs]

Since Life is Strange referenced Buffy the Vampire Slayer (Victoria is a reference) and I'm a big fan of BTVS, I think if LiS characters watch it, their favourite characters would be:

(The characters are Max, Chloe, Kate, Warren, Vic, and Nathan.)

Max: I think Max wouldn't really like the vampires and dark theme. Maybe it's too fantastical horror for her cuppa. But I think she'd relate to Willow the most. (A nerd who has no self-esteem then gets a magic power and gets too powerful she's drunk in it? Hell yeah.) And she'd love Tara a lot, the kindest character of all. I think Max would be very interested in Giles too. No, it's not because he's a teacher, she swore. He was very intellectual, it was very attractive! She watched when Chloe watched. It's more fun for her that way.

Chloe: Chloe would be that girl who is like "Yum, sista" when she met Faith and "I can't believe Faith is not gay. SHE'S DEF FRUITY AT LEAST." She would really empathise with Faith too (esp. her parental issues) and she would love her darkness. (Buffy had daddy issues too, but I think Faith resonated in Chloe more.) She'd think Spike was so fricking cool, at least in S2 when he was still a hardcore evil punk rock vampire, but not really after he got chipped. She'd be a little bit disappointed, but she'd still think he was hilarious. I think Chloe would be kinda annoyed at Angel's character, at least in BTVS. I don't think she'd continue watching after S5...? Maybe she didn't really care about the main romance plot lol (Hey, my mom's name is Joyce too! They are very different tho.) When Chloe stopped watching, Max stopped too.

Kate: I appreciate the soul and demons explanation, Warren. But, um, it's too dark for me. I don't really like vampires anyway...

Warren: Warren would LOVE this TV show. He'd be the type of person who SOBBED at Bangel. Bangel is so tragic, Max, I can't believe the universe doesn't want them together, WHY. He'd think Buffy was so hot, Spike was so cool, Giles was rad, etc. He loved almost every cool character. He'd be offended because a guy with his name was a pathetic, gross villain in S6. He'd really enjoy Spuffy too, he'd think it was so spicy ohohohohoho. Delicious, delicious. Then was kinda shocked at SR (iykyk) (but more like, "Oh, shit, they went there!"), cheered at the end of the S6, and then SOBBED again in the end of S7. I think he'd just enjoy whatever it was on the show and he'd think it's one of the best shows of all time. But my favourite is always Doctor Who, Max, always. He then would be off yapping about his analysis of each season and episode, or what he read on Reddit that he claimed as his own, and go blah blah blah bla--

Victoria: Same as Warren, Vic would be the biggest fan of the show. I think Vic would have Buffy as her favourite character. She'd be a Bangel shipper and a diehard Angel and DB fan. She'd be on Tumblr fighting the Spuffy fans. She agreed that Spike was hot, but the ship rivalry was just...yeah. But she'd secretly see herself in Cordelia. Victoria would ask, "I'm not as bitchy as Cordelia, right, Nate? Right??" and Nathan would just laugh his ass off, annoying her. Later in ATS, she came for Angel but had Cangel as a guilty pleasure. Cordelia's character development would kinda trouble her. Not because it wasn't good but because...well, she saw herself in her and could I be like that? Then she watched S4 and was so mad at them fucking up Cordy's arc.

Nathan: Nathan watched this show on and off because Victoria was watching it near him but he didn't like it. He wasn't too interested in a female main character and would be one of the people who was like: "She's hot but there's no way a girl that small can beat up people. (Stupid name, btw.)"

"She's the vampire slayer!" Vic protested.

"So fucking what?!"

He'd remember Riley and ask, "Where is that soldier guy?"

"He fucked off to Brazil a season ago, Nathan! Shut up about Riley already, he sucked!"

"Brazil again." (Iykyk.)

[steveharrington]

21 & 22 also hi i'm a big fan

hi so nice to meet my supporters

21. part of canon you think is overhyped

hmmm there’s so much to choose from… this is weird but i’m gonna say like. character deaths. i feel like people vastly overestimate and exaggerated how sad these deaths supposedly are and i’m NOT saying this to be edgy and i DO think some of them are really sad okay like. the first couple hit!!! benny and barb and bob all make me emotional even if barb’s actual death scene does make me laugh bc they literally interspersed clips of her dying with stancy fucking which is hard to take serious. but like i cannot for the life of me relate to people who are sad alexei died. who are sad chrissy died. even eddie’s actual death scene is so hollow and forced to me that the scene itself doesn’t make me sad in the slightest and i Only get emotional thinking about the hypothetical feelings of the other characters, which we didn’t even get to see!!! ppl will inevitably be sad when the designated Born To Die character in s5 dies. i feel like st saw how much barb and bob affected people and they were like oh let’s do that every season then! but barb was sad because she was nancy’s childhood best friend and we spent a lot of time examining nancy’s grief over it, bob was sad because he offered hope for joyce that she could have a safe and stable life and his death was like ripping away her last shred of hope. alexei and chrissy to me aren’t developed or integral to the story nearly enough for me to be sad that they’re dead i’m SORRY

22. your favorite part of canon that everyone else ignores

ugh lucas’ storylines……s1 baby lucas so intent on getting his missing friend back that he goes to stake out a government lab BY HIMSELF and struggles to trust an outsider who he instinctively blames for the horrors until he empathizes with her and ultimately becomes her bestie…..s2 lucas developing feelings for max but literally being threatened and eventually attacked by her 18 year old racist brother and STILL making sure max knows that she’s a separate person who he cares about…..s3 lucas slaying bc that’s kinda all they let him do that season…….s4 lucas hoping he can thrive in high school and start a new chapter where he can feel socially accepted and kinda make a path for himself with a new interest but now max won’t talk to him and he’s worried about her and terrified for her wellbeing and no matter how much he tries to communicate this to her she continues to self isolate until finally his love for her is LITERALLY what saves her fucking life and also one of his friends dies horribly and it’s only given like 2 seconds of attention even though he’s clearly affected by it. god. all of lucas’ story arcs are so rich and compelling and no one ever wants to talk about him!!!!!!!!!

[raayllum]

hi jsyk watching your hype and excitement after the new short story is really funny (affectionate/positive)!!! ur excitement for s5 and love of the show is so clear

oh my gosh thank you this is so sweet!! it's the funniest thing because literally every time I want something specific as hell from this show, but lovingly put my clown makeup and assume I'm not going to get it, or that it's a fun prediction but doesn't have to pan out, but then

I either end up getting that exact thing or an even better variant of it??

Like pre-S1 I noticed Rayla's face markings looked like tears, so I hoped we'd see her cry at one point bc I thought it'd be a nice visual parallel? And then 1x09 gave it to me. Going into S2 I hoped for Callum to get over Claudia and for a Rayllum tag, and then [gestures] All That Happened. Even before S3 aired with the "written in the stars" skit I'd noticed the slight dark-lightness theme running through Rayllum's arc and thought it'd be a nice consistency, but I didn't think it'd be a Big Theme, even if as soon as the S4 intro came out I was like "yeah that 'south star' shit is coming back" and well... Gestures to the entire ass "stargazing" clip just between the two of them. The way post-S3 I assumed S4 would be about Callum flying too close to the sun magic wise, being terrified of Aaravos invading this mind, that Aaravos would get out in S5, and that S5 would deal more with Rayla's coin stuff? Ezran as the thematic Witness / Embodiment of Justice? Everything about Claudia's arc?? Chef's kiss

My first post-S3 theory back in 2019 was a "Rayla and Ezran disagree with Callum caught in the middle, leaving to a broyals conflict" wish, gave up on it when TTM hppened because it seemed like we were going in a different direction, campaigned for 2+ years for Callum to do something Fucked Up for Rayla, and like... now I'm going to get both things, presumably that I have desperately wanted/hoped for??

And then there's like, all the things I didn't even know I wanted that TDP just decided to give me anyway?? An Angor Rot villain variant in Kim'Dael? Motherfucking pirates? The game motif becoming a chess motif? Wanting a trio variant sitting around a campfire scene in S4 (that we haven't had since S1) and S4 gave me one and S5's already given me one and there might be More?

I've talked before about how healing TDP has been for me when my prior two fandoms source materials back to back were very disappointing and shoddily put together / majorly side lined their disabled characters / characters of colour (who were also my favourite characters) but like

You ever watch or something, and it feels like it was Made For You, in a way? Like tailor made for like, your interests or preferences or character archetypes, or whatever? That's always how TDP has felt for me in everything it's released and every time it's a beautiful, wonderful experience and a surprise. It would be hard not to be so excited and positive about it, and I cannot wait to continue to be catered to. They never miss!

[ninadove]

number 11 for feligami (you know this is an excuse to warm my heart)

I am more than happy to warm your heart! 💜

11. What was their first impression of each other?

The thing with these two is, we actually got many different “first impression” scenes, so prepare for a looong post:

Gabriel Agreste (S4 E9):

Obviously, this little staring contest was building up to something, but we weren’t sure what that was at the time (and I don’t think the writing team knew either).

We don’t get much from this scene except that Kagami immediately sees right through Felix’s bullshit - she doesn’t know what it is about him, but it sure is something. Later in Pretention, we see that she is not afraid to call him out on said bullshit, which we always love.

More interestingly, there’s a form of curiosity in the way she holds his gaze and only breaks eye contact when Chloé starts yelling (as she does), continuing to observe him as he gets up to conduct very important plot business. He might be dangerous at this point in the story, but that doesn’t make him any less fascinating.

As for Felix's side: this encounter reads like a “first draft” of the reaction we get from him in Emotion. Even without knowing that Kagami is a Sentibeing, he senses something familiar in her, which reads a lot like this feeling of shared otherness queer people and abuse survivors often get very early on with each other.

But ultimately, at this point in the story, he is on a mission that takes precedence over everything else in his life. Which leads us to their actual first meeting, as in the actually plot relevant one that has been living in my head rent free since Christmas (what a beautiful gift):

Emotion (S5 E18):

Where do I even start with this one. Well I guess we need to start with the beginning.

Emotion is the continuation of Felix’s arc towards regaining his freedom and safety, and so far he hasn’t cared much about throwing people (including and especially his cousin/twin/clone) under the bus to further its advancement. He has an objective and he knows exactly how he will get to it.

Which is why it is so interesting and fun to see him deviate from his plan, out of to sheer concentrated annoyance (Chloé) or romantic interest (Kagami):

Kagami herself said it best: the kiss was a little too much. There was no reason for Adrien to do that. So what motive could Felix potentially have to go so overboard with his displays of affection? Well it’s simple, really: Kagami has the most gorgeous hazel eyes and the cutest nose and freckles like stardust on her cheeks. Flirting with this pretty girl he had already noticed months ago might be part of the plan, but he’s genuinely having the time of his life doing it.

Then of course he notices the ring.

And suddenly it’s not just about Kagami being the cutest girl he’s ever seen anymore. It’s a confirmation of the ✨ vibes ✨ both of them were picking up on in Gabriel Agreste. Of course, the in-universe implication is that they are both Sentibeings, but it’s not actually about that: it is about Felix recognising the horrifying abuse he’s been subjected to in another person, and desperately wanting to reach out to her.

WHICH BRINGS ME TO:

The Diamond Dance breaks my heart into a billion tiny pieces and puts it back together multiple times a day. I am so normal.

Felix is flirting so hard, because of course he is, and it hurts. Kagami cannot see that he is being sincere, and it’s not just because of Adrien: Perfection and Protection have shown us that she has repeatedly felt like an afterthought not only as a love interest, but also as a friend. Her self-esteem has taken a major hit and she cannot believe that anyone could be interested in her romantically at this point.

Which is utter bullshit because look at this boy:

Getting more and more enamored as he discovers that not only does she understand what he’s been through, she’s also brave, intelligent, honest, and considerate in ways that are completely foreign to him.

The best thing about this scene is how Felix « I lie for fun » Graham de Vanily progressively lets his mask slip around her, letting out more and more truths that cannot just be written off as Adrien getting bolder. Until finally he says the most Felix thing ever:

And this is when we get Kagami’s real first impression of him. When so much honesty from her leads him to take his own mask off. When the plans for rebellion and revenge are quickly abandoned for something more important. When he asks her to run away with him.

Obviously, she likes what she sees.

[sleepy-moron]

So I had a big brain thought about how Will and Mike are behind El specifically in the last shot and obviously the relationships are grouped together and all the people present are likely going to be the characters leading the plot forward but I think it ties into a really interesting thing about how the ga views the main characters of the show. So the people present in the shot are the main main characters of an ensemble show. The audience does not see it that way at this point in time, most people think El is the most important character in the show, and in a way she is, but she isn’t the main character because there isn’t just one main character.

So the problem with people assuming El is the main character is it means they start viewing the other characters as less important or less interesting, and assume the show itself agrees with these points. Specifically talking about Mike and Will though I think it’s fair to assume that post s4 they’re most people’s least favorite characters of the main 6 party members. Mike is seen as a dumb jerk and Will is seen as being pointless or not having any reason to continue existing in the show by the people who aren’t just blatantly homophobic about him. I know multiple people who hope Mike dies early into s5 because they think he’s the worst and are tired of his shit. It’s interesting that El is from and center while Mike and Will are together behind her if it’s just love triangle imagery. If that was the case Mike would be in between them, and he is at multiple points throughout s3 and s4. El being in front because she’s more important is odd to me because we have already been told Will is very important to the future supernatural plot next season so why would they place him on the same level as Mike? The only way Mike is relevant next season (to the average viewer) is as El’s boyfriend or the dude that is going to be homophobic to Will (which is also a weird stance?) and has no other relevance outside of that? So why place him on the same level as Will who very much is having his own major arc next season?

It’s because El is believed to literally eclipse the other two by most of the audience. El’s happiness is viewed as the most important part of a happy ending for the show and so byler cannot happen because it would be “cruel” to El. Obviously this is not meant to be El hate she is lovely and deserves to be happy but it is weird how people use her as a way to pry Mike and Will into not having the history that they do. Breaking them down into El’s brother and El’s boyfriend completely ignores the fact that Mike and Will’s relationship has been given focus in every season and is actively used to make byler seem unfair to El when in reality doing this is unfair to Will and Mike as characters who exist and have plot importance outside of their relationships with El. So she’s placed on front of and in between them because that’s how she is treated by the audience. It’s not a matter of what makes all or most of the characters involved in the love triangle happy, it’s just what people think El needs to have a happy ending despite this going against her s4 character development but nobody cares about that….

@aemiron-main big brain thought

[deanismysavior]

I do not know what is up with R3ddit but guys out there literally think the duffers are just going to give Will a background love interest in S5 or something. Do they really think they are going to give their main character a background love interest in S5? when they have introduced a love interest (Vickie) for one of their more minor character (Robin)?

Like, do they even realize how fucking ridiculous it sounds? So they were more encouraged to introduce a new love interest for one of their minor characters than to introduce a new love interest for their main character? Not hating on Robin here but objectively speaking she is not exactly a main character like Will is.

Not to mention the duffers could already have introduced a new love interest for Will in S4 by making him meet with a boy in Cali. Yet they have not.

Like I really am trying to see their point here. Do they think the Duffers would just hate Will so much that they make him suffer, throw him in an unrequited love storyline, and build up Mike's rejection... for what exactly? For ''realism''???? Why would they do that to their main character who is the only canonically confirmed gay boy on the show??? When they wouldn't do that to Robin??

Fuck off with your ''realism'', really. It's not realism you guys want. It's just cruelty and suffering and hate crime you guys want to see.

The Duffers aren't going to introduce a fucking homophobic heartbreak storyline for their main, I'm sorry if you guys want to see that happen but it's not how things work. I'm saying this to Melvins who want and expect this to happen as well, if you are reading this ask. It's not gonna happen. And if it happens, then the Duffers would give their only gay main character the most homophobic storyline for no reason other than suffering tbh, when they could have introduced a new love interest for Will already without involving him in Mike's storyline.

Do you guys really believe the Duffers would be that cruel and write something like this than to believe that they are breaking Melvin up since at least S3 by showing us how their relationship doesn't work because they are not compitable?

To be honest, I think the reason a lot of people, especially Reddit Bros, think this is because they don't view Will as a main character.

I've noticed a trend in which a lot of (mostly guys let's be real) in the GA kind of write Will off as an unimportant character. I think a lot of people are more focused on El and her arc, and are invested in the Vecna storyline, but they really don't view Will to be significant outside of his connection to Vecna.

Basically, they view Will as a plot device and not a character, which is why they're so comfortable with the idea that he ends up sad, alone, or dead, because they're viewing him as a way of getting from point A in the plot to point B,

But this is explicitly NOT how the Duffers have written Will, and they've made that pretty apparent, especially in recent interviews saying that Will is going to be a main focus in season 5, which means that Will's emotions, motivations, and struggles ARE important to the storyline. And that also means that his feelings for Mike WILL get more explicitly addressed.

But because they continually view Will as a side character or as less important to the plot, they couldn't even fathom him actually getting a well-developed arc in which he could potentially have a real love interest.

And yes, I do think homophobia has something to do with the fact that a lot of these dudebros don't really seem to care about Will as a character.

Anyway, Will Byers deserves better and he deserves his mf hero arc and he deserves love and affection from his boyfriend Mike Wheeler.

[cinematicnomad]

I agree with your critiques on ST4. I'm so torn with my feelings on Steve rn because on the one hand, I want him to live and to have him around because he's my fave and I probs wouldn't watch the show without him, so it's at least nice to know there could be some great content for him to look forward to with S5!

On the other hand...the way he was written in Vol 2., with 90% of his screentime being Nancy pining was disappointing. I'm not even against Stancy (I actually see good potential with them), but the fact that Steve's relationships with Robin and (especially) Dustin were largely ignored so there could be more moments between him and Nancy kinda sucked. I'm seeing some people say that Steve wanting to get back with her is killing his character arc. I don't agree with that--and I don't think you can really claim 'character assassination' until you see how his character ends in the show--however, if reducing his motivations/focus mostly to Nancy is where they're going to continue to go in S5, then yes, I feel like they should have killed him this season. To your points, it would have raised the stakes and let people know that no one--not even a fan favorite--is safe, and it would have delivered a major emotional blow to several characters (and the audience) to lose Steve. They may still kill him off in S5, which I would be okay with IF done properly. That's my last hedge on the idea that they should have killed him off this season. I hope the Duffers would be smart enough not to do this but... had they treated Steve's death the way they treated Eddie's. I can't imagine how angry and disappointed I would be. They can kill Steve, but they need to do it in a way that does justice to the character and acknowledges the loss it would be for the other characters and the audience.

i think killing steve would have really risen the stakes and propelled the story into s5 with the confirmation that no one's safe, not even a fan favorite. but i'm not surprised they didn't do it, and the fact that he's still around means i'm still gonna end up watching s5 just to see what happens with him, so...i guess they know their audience if nothing else.

i kind of get what they were getting at with bringing back the steve/nancy of it all? i'm not like...Actively Against the ship, but i was never super into it bc it was clearly doomed from the start since jonathan was v clearly the end goal for her in s1. i don't think it's killing his character arc for him to want to get back with her—his arc had nothing to do with growing away from nancy or falling out of love with her. if anything, steve's character growth comes explicitly from him wanting to be BETTER for nancy (in s1 he went to the byers to apologize to jonathan without knowing nancy would be there bc he knew it was the right thing to do, and once he realized they were in danger he ran BACK into the house with his bat. in s2, he ends up in the role of the babysitter bc he was trying to go apologize to nancy for their fight and then decided that it was the right thing to do to help dustin, his girlfriends little brothers friend, etc etc).

i'm not surprised that steve still has feelings for nancy, and i'm not even surprised that nancy still has complicated, lingering attraction for steve, but i guess i AM surprised that they made it such a focus of s4? and i guess i'm surprised that they've tee'd it up to continue into s5, ESPECIALLY since there's apparently going to be a time jump so like...potentially steve is just going to be pining for nancy for years?? and that just seems. depressing, honestly. i want him to move on and find someone who puts him first and doesn't consider him second best or their back-up option. i just don't think we've ever really seen anything to make it seem like nancy values steve as himself—to me it always seems more as though she values how he makes her feel? how his interest in her reflects back on her? in s1 it seems clear that like, it was her first high school relationship and yes, she liked him, but also she liked that it was Steve The Popular Kid who liked HER and the power/confidence that gave her. and then in s4 it really does feel like she's struggling in her long distance relationship with jonathan, and steve is just. there. easy to boost her confidence. like yes, she appreciates how he's matured and grown, but also it feels much more like a comfort thing than a genuine affection, if that makes sense.

my main issue with the steve/nancy of s4 is basically what you said—it felt like a lot of the meat of steve's story in volume 2 became centered around his feelings for nancy. which i would kind of be okay with if not for the fact that??? dustin's out there experiencing serious trauma and we didn't get even a moment of steve acknowledging eddie's death or how that impacted dustin. i feel like the season ending would have been SO MUCH stronger if we'd gotten to see steve/nancy/robin find dustin with eddie's body and given the audience the chance to see how steve handled it, how he helped dustin, etc. it's frankly bizarre that nobody but dustin (and eddie's uncle) acknowledged his death.

[dolokhoded]

hii this is the-reynolds-pamphlet (this is my main and i cant get rid of it LMAO im not active on here)

re what you said about the s4 pacing. LITERALLY i wrote that whole other post as an answer to another ask i got about how the chosen's storyline really sucks in some aspects and i said the pacing is going to be incredibly off for season 4

okay first of all. there's a huge timeline issue in season 3 concerning the holidays and how much time passes since season 1, i was gonna make a whole other post about all the timeline inconsistencies but i didnt get around to doing it (i probably should). but like at this point it has been one year minimum since s1, realistically it should be three years if the end of season 4 is palm sunday. then like ??? theyre gonna spend the entirety of s5 on ONE week? and for fucking what. i thought they wanted a "bingeable" proper show with pacing and everything, why would they zero in on that

but anyways about ramah. first of all im 99% sure it's because her actress has schedule conflicts and likely wants to drop out of the show (that's why she mysteriously left to go talk to her dad in season 3). but also it's kind of obvious that they're using her death as character development for thomas for the rest of the series (which is gonna be like 2 weeks maximum over 3 seasons anyway. unless they continue onto acts but that poses another huge pacing problem.) which is pissing me off like?? i had the same reaction when tamar was acting weird for like one (1) episode and then she told mary everything and just left. why would you not give them proper character development established over a long period of time and just confine it to singular episodes like that. im pretty sure tamar's backstory won't be brought up again lmao. also ramah doesn't really have much of a personality (which sucks because i got the impression she was a bit of a rich daddy's girl and there was potential for character exploration) and her character hasn't even been that established so like... partially it's easy to kill her but on the other hand, it isn't as emotional especially bc she wasn't even here the last season.

also remember how in the other post i was like why are they literally giving consistent character arcs and emotional plot for matthew, mary, simon & eden, and james & john but theyre basically forgetting everybody else exists. yeah like james just fucking launches himself at someone and gets knocked out in season 4 which is great but how long are they going to be just keep throwing new arcs for the main cast and keep ignoring thaddeus' existence. btw i watched a clip of That Scene in s4 (i didnt realize what it was when i was watching it lmao) with thaddeus and james and they're basically asking jesus why he's talking about dying. so thaddeus stays personalityless while big james is over there getting concussions #maincharacter. im not saying that scene w/jesus isnt necessary but im saying its thad's big scene and it is once again about Not thaddeus

this entire thing is incredibly bizarre to me because they COULDVE made an actual show with fleshed out characters and everything ??? they confined themselves to 8 1-hour long episodes per season, which of course restricts how much storytelling they can do while keeping in all the major gospel events they need to put in. but like first of all they couldve Not Done that. i think their audience wouldve gone insane for more episodes. second of all, if they WERENT gonna carry on character arcs and give everyone a fleshed out character then why did they introduce them as such??? i mean it was probably because they wanted to spark interest and then just forget about it but that kind of sucks. why did they do this lmao they literally had the opportunity to make it better

ok v rushed reply cause i have to go to the library the bus is coming in 15 minutes which means all the law students are leaving which means empty spaces BUT

you're so right the chosen's timeline is fucked up atp i can't really tell when it's been a day or a week or like. a couple months it's. i dont understand what theyre doing and why theyre doing it like this. cause like. even the characters who do have decent arcs like matthew and simon peter and james and john are not being developed properly cause the timing is so goddamn off. and i Know that in this new season they're gonna try to make john like Rise Above and start to kind of live up to his name as the favorite and have more understanding of jesus' teachings while james doesn't which is very stupid to me cause like. When. i think it was last season that this guy was bragging about getting to plough a field. how are they going to have john transition into one of the most competent disciples just. doesnt make sense.

and ALSO !!!! the reason all of these arcs are being so rushed is because they never get a break because as you mentioned literally nobody else gets any character developement. i wanna see more of thad. and little james. and nathanael while we're at it, and zee, and philip, and mary and tamar's friendship. why are they just throwing shit in there and never expand on it at all, unless you're thaddeus, in which case you don't even get that.

also i have a.,., suspicion, kind of, on where they're going with big james, and i can't be entirely sure, i'm not saying i'm correct, but just in case. Leave Tamar Alone ! i'm begging you ! dallas ! leave tamar alone ! not every single one of your female characters needs a romantic subplot ! i know big james is pretty and you want to give him a love interest so the repressed christian women in your audience keep watching your show, i see him, but for the love of christ actually ! leave tamar alone ! i know that if this happens you're only going to utilize her character for romance LEAVE TAMAR ALONE !!!!

[ginjointsintheworld]

Gin what do you think about freema's exit?

i was speechless and I'm sorry to say that no one makes a good impression (including freema, i'm sorry)

if the writers knew that she wanted to leave they could try to change her story in season 4 to give her a fair exit (by the way it's not an impossible thing considering they said they said fuentes had to leave in 4x09 and then they changed idea)

if freema has decided to leave NA at the end of the season, i'm sorry to say that she looks like a person abandoning the sinking ship (of course I know that she doesn't owe anyone anything and that it's about her career, but that doesn't mean a person can't be sad about it).

In conclusion: situation handled very badly by everyone.

anon 2:

I definitely saw Freema’s exit coming(the stans were intense but right, i fear lmao)because Helen’s screentime and storylines were trash and she was pretty much reduced to a love interest but I’m really going to miss her. Freema is so talented and I love Sharpe despite how much they tried to reduce her character. I keep wondering how they’ll save face going forward because her exit message to the fans was sweet but the producers were saying she wasn’t leaving up until two days ago lol so I can’t help but wonder if this blindsided them a bit. Anyway, I’m guessing they’ll do another time jump because that’s what NA tends to do after each season but I’m not really into that because idk how it’ll affect Leyren? Feels like they’ll skip steps again and have them magically back together…

I had doubts already about freema's status for s5 when wilder got promoted to main character. 2 seasons without a single promotion and they suddenly decide to bump someone up who was literally introduced as helen's replacement at NA? yeah. I'm annoyed and disappointed at how they wasted helen's character in s4 given that now there's little chance of us seeing her story continue to play out outside from second hand information from the other characters. I don't know when the writers were informed that she'd be leaving the show and maybe it was when part of the season was written already. But you can't help but think about all the ways s4 could've been a decent send off for helen's character with the premise they set up in 4x01.a premise that was built on her arc in s3 with mina too. If they had let her go to London on her own and get to do all the things she set out to, run the hospital and make it better, work on her relationship with her mother, unpack her history that sent her running from her home country. Really explore those things instead of constantly splitting her time with Max's story and him being a wrench in her plans. So that by 4x22 we could've left with helen's character settled into her new journey in London and new beginnings. Her character deserved that much after the seasons of "wait for it" to dive into her backstory.

as for a time skip, i don’t think it’ll be anything major, maybe 6 months or less. there wasn’t a time skip really for s3 to s4 and the only reason they had one for s2 to s3 was. well, pandemic stuff. 5x01 will definitely set the tone for how the rest of the season will play out. 

As for freema personally, I don't blame her for leaving the show. I know it feels like abandoning ship, especially this close to the end. But the reality is that New Amsterdam is ending and freema has an opportunity to lead a show that has a future. Given that the shows are in two different countries and that we are still in a pandemic, it likely wasn't feasible to do both even if she cut back episodes on NA. This is her career and she has to do what's best to keep it thriving. We can't fault her for that. i didn’t realize that any of the producers were saying she’d still be on s5 but i haven’t been following them closely during the break. maybe they were still working out the details and holding out hope to get her for a couple concrete episodes? though I'm sure the writers and schulner will work with her to fit in a scene or two to wrap up the series with. They'll just keep it hush for the surprise element.

[chasingfictions]

So I'm re-watching season five and feel like.

1.) Riley genuinely had a lot of potential as a character and if he had been allowed to have more room to breathe outside of being Buffy's love interest, he may have Gone Places.

2.) If instead of re-enlisting at the initiative, he had gotten turned as a result of playing with vampires, but his history left him Kinda Odd as a vampire (too stuck in the Rules and Anti-Demon mindset to vampire normally) and Buffy found herself with /another/ vampire she can't bring herself to stake, but this one without a soul or a chip for her to fall back on, and she had to contend with that? That would have been Neat.

You did not ask for any of this, but as the only Buffy person I know of who does not hate Riley's guts, I felt compelled to share my thoughts with you. Maybe someday I will actually write something, but for now, I continue to ramble pointlessly

Ooh this is interesting! i like where your head’s at with it — in that actually Riley is An Interesting Guy if you take a look at him for long enough!!! (by long enough I mean I actively disliked / didn’t care about Riley for like 10 years until this past rewatch I was suddenly like oh???? Oh the way the narrative is Using Riley???)

i feel like I’m on a slightly different wavelength though in that I kind of really love Riley as Just Buffy’s Boyfriend. like I think the places where he is most interesting is where the narrative is using him to talk about Buffy’s desire— Riley is the incredibly straight man Buffy loves so that we have a template to talk about Buffy’s queer longing , and a landscape for that to play out on. like, I think episodes like buffy vs dracula or fool for love wouldn’t quite hit the same without the knowledge that there is a Normal Human Man At Home Who Buffy Couldn’t Be Thinking Less About Right Now if She Tried.

of course that’s like!! The thing with Riley!! Is that he’s not just a Normal Human Man — truly I do think he is a little freak, he’s just so normal-seeming based on the people whose company he keeps. but there IS something so compelling to me about like, Straight Laced Military Guy who falls in love with this bisexual anarchist arsonist and her band of queers and it blows up his whole life . hdjdjfj buffy summers as that one text post that’s like, idk what my gender is but if ur romantically interested in me you’re at least a little bit gay. or something like that.

i guess this is to say I really do like Riley’s arc the way it is — i think he’s this really fascinating narrative pawn who is both interesting in his own right if you look at him long enough, and ALSO is really interesting in that, in a show that is so much about queerness and abnormality — themes that s4-s5 are rolling around in SO much especially — how people react to Riley and interplay with him in the narrative tells us so much about them. like, Riley and Spike spend 1.5 seasons narratively circling and mirroring each other (literally scene transitions from 4x07 are just like, these guys!!! Are narrative foils!!! These guys!!!!!) until spike eventually swallows the role of romantic lead whole out of Riley’s clenched fist. Xander’s obsession with Riley is both about his queer longing for Riley, and also about his heteronormative desire to be like Riley. Dawn’s irreverent disregard / passive disinterest in Riley signals how little he actually matters in the growing n developing landscape of Buffy’s priorities. he’s just such a guy!!!

that SAID I do think ur idea for having Riley be a vampire fucks and is also unceasingly fun sndjdjfj buffy summers is like. i DID IT U GUYS. I’m NOT psychosexually obsessed with vampires anymore!!! and Riley is like. lmao just wait one second. jdjdjd Riley becoming a vampire is kind of at xander-cordy levels of like, cordy’s demonification on ats making it retroactively that literally only demon women have been with Xander . angel is like hey buffy here’s some trauma about our relationship now go find a normal guy so buffy finds the Normalest guy in the world and it’s like. fucking AGAIN??? jsjdjd and then the spike love interest arc starts and Buffy’s like you know what I’m not even refusing the call anymore I am clearly just destined to be a vampirefucker. bring it on blondie bear. shjdjdt somehow in the timeline where Riley becomes a vampire it leads to spike and Buffy full on fucking in the alleyway in fool for love. prove me wrong,

[korra-the-red-lion]

Legends of Tomorrow and the Zarlie Incident: Is it happening again?

As many fans of DC’s Legends of Tomorrow are aware, during season 4 and 5 of the series, the ship “Zarlie”, a pairing of Zari Tomaz and Charlie, became quite popular during this time, especially during season 4.

Zari was a fan favourite character who was introduced in season 3. Throughout the season, Zari kept mostly to herself until she began to warm up to the others on the Waverider. Due to Zari’s closed off nature, she never had a LI in season 3. There were jokes about it, of course. Zari was very attractive to one Mr. Jonah Hex, and honestly. who wasn’t from the Waverider, haha? We’re told them as viewers that Zari is attracted to men. Sounds good.

Then s4 rolls around and Charlie gets introduced to the crew. Charlie takes an instant liking to Zari, affectionately calling her ‘Z.’ Maisie previously played Amaya on the previous two seasons, who was quite close with Zari as a friend, so it only makes sense that there is some chemistry between the two actors since they’ve been friends for awhile now. I wasn’t surprised when people starting shipping the two of them, thus the ship ‘Zarlie’ was born. What I wasn’t expecting was the writers to play into it. They had some pretty close scenes, and by close I mean there wasn’t enough room for two hands between their faces. And Zari made a comment about Charlie picking Amaya’s form because she was hot, implying that she thought Amaya was attractive. Thus the infamous scene happened:

No denial from Zari, just her usual annoyed look she got whenever Charlie started picking at her. Thus, the Bi Zari headcannon was born and mostly accepted by everyone in the LoT fandom. Of course, with Avalance and I believe Constangreen at this time, many people doubted it would become canon. And unfortunately, shortly after, Nate and Zari began dating, which felt sudden to me personally, and Steelhacker was born.

However, Steelhacker canon did not stop Zarlie from continuing. If anything, the writers only added more fuel to the fire so fans could have discussions. This is where I started to get annoyed, because why continue to bait the pair if you have no intention of making it canon? It felt a little dirty to me, even as I enjoyed the banter and chemistry between the two of them. Oh well, I thought at the time, it’s just shipping for fun now.

Season 4 ends with Zari being replaced by Zari Tarazi, or Zari 2.0 if you will. People still shipped Zarlie, though it was mostly from Zari 1.0. Fans were a little put off when Charlie said she slept with Behrad, but it also called attention to the fact that Behrad technically replaced Zari from the original timeline, meaning that Charlie wanted sleep with Zari, yes? Very confusing, but in a weird way, it was almost like they canonized the ship further.

Maisie had been on record several times acknowledging the chemistry between the two, and how much she wished they could have explore that more. Then of course, the news of the filmed but deleted kiss broke out and everyone from the Zarlie fandom lost their mind. There was a kiss, so in some strange way, Zarlie is canon, but only behind the scenes. From a show that does have amazing queer characters and content came a strangely bizarre queerbait that is now semi-canon, but only because the news of the kiss came to light, otherwise it would be another ship lost at sea, dragging people down with it as it lured them with its content. That should be the end of it, right?

Wrong.

Season 6 came out this season with Astra, the villain being manipulated by the Fates in season 5, being elevated to main cast. Joining her was newcomer Esperanza “Spooner” Cruz. Some people were hesitant because Astra was a bit of a polarizing character in s5, with reason. And of course, with any new character coming in, people are worried on how they will fit into the show. However, Spooner easily became a character that people enjoyed, and she somehow grounded the show, due to her very emotional character arc.

Spooner and Astra didn’t interact much until the animated sequence, when Astra turned her into a fork, much to the fans delight. Spooner actually encouraged Astra and after that, the two slowly became friends. They could have some snarky yet fun back and forth conversations and remarks to another, and the two actors played off each other well. They also connected from their lost mothers, Spooner who thought her mother had been taken by aliens and Astra who lost her mother to hell. They had a sort of emotional vulnerability between them that only they could understand.

Then the bowling episode came out and I think this is when the ship really got rolling. There was the big hug at the end of the match were a much taller Astra scoops Spooner up off her feet into a massive bear hug, smiles between the two. I know this is when I became a solid Esperastra shipper.

The pair continued to partner up after this. They partnered up again during the Clue-esc murder mystery game. Something that is very interesting about this is the pairings themselves. Ava gets killed by Sara right away (lol) and Nate dies shortly after, with Sara following behind. When Sara dies, her and Ava are shot together in a typical lovers pose in death. Makes sense, as they are engaged. Zari 2.0 is paired with Behrad and John, her brother and her lover respectively. Everyone is paired with someone they love. So...Astra and Spooner are paired up. Okay, no comment. JUST KIDDING. They die together, and this is shot in such a romantic way:

I know it’s dark, my apologies. But Spooner is leaning on Astra, and Astra is falling on top of Spooner. I’ve watched and read a lot of stuff, and this is a typical lovers in death position as well. 

Then we get to the final two episodes which see Spooner and Astra pairing up again. Spooner leans on Astra for emotional support throughout these two episodes, because she knows that Astra understands what she’s going through. Astra was devested when she thought she lost both Spooner and John at the same time. Luckily, Spooner did come back and the two shared a very emotional hug.

Now, this is where it gets a little frustrating as a fan. The writers and showrunners have stated clearly that they are Just Friends(TM). It seems like, based on some decisions from this past season, the writers are pushing for Astra/Behrad, which is like, not terrible but a little strange. However, Tala Ashe (Zari), has been on record to say that she thinks the actors have great chemistry and she ships them. So there is clearly a small divide yet again. So, if season 7 leans into this any more, is Esperastra the new Zarlie?

Of course friends can love each other, hug one another, and use each other as emotional support. However in this case, there does seem to be some underlying tension between the two that I wonder if the writers are going to explore. Is Esperastra going to stay friends, or end up becoming yet another queerbaited sapphic couple from Legends of Tomorrow? I guess only time will give us an answer on this. However, I will say, the parallels between the two ships is slightly uncanny, and perhaps even intentional. Zarlie connected by being two people who felt lost without family, and Esperastra may be doing the same thing now that John is gone, who was functionally Astra’s only family left.

Let’s hope Legends of Tomorrow doesn’t do the same thing twice.

[herinsectreflection]

I Don't Sleep on Bed of Bones: The Slayer as a Killer Across the Seasons

A pretty constant question throughout Buffy's arc - arguably the central question of the entire show, that Buffy must answer, is "what is a slayer? What does being The Vampire Slayer mean?". And a major part of that is the question of whether a slayer is just a killer. It's a question central to S5, but ripples throughout the rest of the show too, with some of the most iconic scenes in the show in converstion with each other around it. Inspired by an ask I received about this from @potterkid, I took a look at how this idea develops and resolves itself over the course of the show.

In S1, being the Slayer means accepting responsibility. It's metaphor for growing up - a metaphor that recurs throughout the show along with other ideas, but is strongest in S1. Buffy is torn between her teenage/human wants and her adult/supernatural responsibilities. She accepts her mortality and her duty (fighting the Master), and wins when she manages to integrate that with her personal desires (fighting the Master in a kickass prom dress with her friends and boyfriend). There's some stuff around the classic superhero idea that being around the hero is dangerous -e.g. in Never Kill a Boy on the First Date, but not much on the idea of a Slayer being a killer exactly.

In S2, being the Slayer means making hard choices. It means accepting that sometimes all your options are bad ones, but choosing one anyway, even at personal cost. This is introduced through Ford's story in Lie to Me, with Buffy's words to him forming one of the core thesis statements of the show ("You have a choice. You don't have a good choice, but you have a choice."), and it's climaxed beautifully in the tragic ending of Becoming. There's not much direct allusion to the idea of Buffy being a killer here, but this is a vital moment in that discussion. Ultimately, Buffy does make the decision here to kill Angel - not to slay Angelus, but to kill him. To take the life of her ensouled lover in order to save others. It's kind of the opposite of the decision that Ford makes - the best of two bad choices. It's the classic trolley problem, and Buffy's hand is on the lever by design - she has to make that choice because she's the Slayer. We will see this moment returned to again and again as this Slayer-vs-Killer theme develops.

Also, Ted is a very important episode for later. Buffy herself feels guilty specifically because she used her slayer powers on what she thinks is a regular human, and therefore killed him. Specifically, being the Slayer made her a Killer. It's also notable that this is where the idea of Buffy having a free reign to kill is first introduced - by Buffy's original shadow self in Cordelia no less.

Cordelia: I don't get it. Buffy's the Slayer. Shouldn't she have... Xander: What, a license to kill? Cordelia: Well, not for fun. But she's like this superman. Shouldn't there be different rules for her? - 2x12 Ted This isn't explored massively here but will be revisited again and again going forward.

S3 is where this theme really comes into focus. Faith enters as Buffy's shadow self and a representation of hedonism. How that manifests is as a Slayer who gives herself a license to Kill. She posits the idea that as slayers, they can and should decide who lives and dies.

Faith: Something made us different. We're warriors. We're built to kill. Buffy: To kill demons! But it does not mean that we get to pass judgment on people like we're better than everybody else! Faith: We are better! - 3x15 Consequences

Obviously, this is something that Buffy has to reckon with and fight against. But there is a glimmer of truth here, because at the end of S2, she does take the power of life and death into her own hands. She is faced with the choice between Angel and the world and decides that Angel should die. She had to, that's the position she has to be in because she is the Slayer. She has to be a Killer because she is a Slayer. So the two are intertwined.

More than this, Faith is someone who at least appears to revel in the kill. Up until now, we hadn't really seen Buffy enjoy being a slayer, but Faith does. Buffy is genuinely drawn to that, to slaying for pleasure. The equation of slaying/killing and sex for Buffy is first explicitly drawn by Faith in this season. ("Isn't it crazy how slaying always makes you hungry and horny?"). Slayers are very much like vampires in that respect, blurring the line between sex and death. In general, Faith introduces the idea that Buffy is drawn to killing - not just to protect people (the ideal of a Slayer), but for its own benefit. That's something that Buffy continues to struggle with going forward.

I have said before that Faith in S3 is an echo of Angel in S2, both in Buffy's relationship to them both and how that shifts mid-season, and in how it ends. In Graduation Day, Buffy again is given the power of life and death. This time, it's more personal - she can stop Angel dying by killing Faith. It's not such a straightforward (for want of a better word) decision as Angel .vs. the literal entire world, it's just the value of one life against the other. Another trolley problem, and it's not an easy choice, but it's still a choice. Just as she chose the lesser evil in killing Angel in S2, she kills the person filling the Angel role in S3. And this time, the choice is explicitly tied to the idea of being a Killer. Faith is set up as the person that Buffy could be in a slightly different world, and that person is a Killer, as Faith herself claims.

"What are you gonna do, B? Kill me? You become me. You're not ready for that, yet." - Faith Lehane, 3x17 Enemies

"You did it, B. You killed me." - Faith Lehane, 3x22 Graduation Day

In the act of choosing to pull the lever, Buffy has to kill. In the act of killing, she has become her dark mirror. In the act of defeating/becoming Faith, she becomes again the sole Slayer. Being a killer and a Slayer again intertwined. It's interesting here that she then makes the decision to feed herself to Angel. She unravels the trolley problem by throwing herself on the tracks. It's fascinating that between the dual trolley-problem finales of Becoming and The Gift, where in the first Buffy chooses to pull the lever, and in the latter she refuses and chooses a third option, Graduation Day exists in the middle as a stepping stone where she kind of does both.

The bulk of S4 is a little lighter on this theme, instead examining The Slayer as a role that must be juggled amongst a series of competing roles as Buffy's life as an adult becomes more fractured. There are flavours of it in Fear Itself, where Buffy fears that her friends will leave and her destiny lies with death and the dead, but otherwise not too much jumps out at me. Except, of course, for Restless, which is so heavy with this theme. It's one of the many reasons why I kind of consider Restless an honourary part of S5, as it's setting up the themes and arcs of S5 as much as it's wrapping up the like from S4.

RILEY: Hey there, killer.

BUFFY: We're not demons. ADAM: Is that a fact?

RILEY: Thought you were looking for your friends. Okay, killer...

TARA: I live in the action of death, the blood cry, the penetrating wound. I am destruction. Absolute ... alone. BUFFY: The Slayer. FIRST SLAYER: No friends! Just the kill.

OK, so SO much to unpack here. This is all within the under-10-minute sequence of Buffy's dream, and in that sequence she constantly shows a fear that she is in fact a "killer". It's clearly strong in her mind. Riley calls her "killer" multiple times, and Adam equates her with him, and with demonhood. I also find it very interesting how she responds to Tara's words, which are very literally describing the act of kiling ("the action of death...the blood cry...the penetrating wound"). She hears that and immediately identifies her as the Slayer, so slayerhood and killing are clearly bound up together in her mind.

Central to her concerns is the dichotomy between friendship and death. This was built up in Fear Itself, and it's central here. Riley and Sineya both frame it as a choice, between friendship and "the kill". This is a fear that Buffy has already, since S1, that her Slayer life will stop her ability to have a "normal" life of friends and family, but it also sets up her arc in S5 nicely. She chooses her friends over becoming a pure instrument of death in Restless, but that does not resolve her ongoing fears. They existed before and continue to dwell even more strongly in her mind, with words that both Sineya and Dracula repeat.

"You think you know ... what's to come ... what you are. You haven't even begun."

This sets the stage for S5, and her arc of choosing between family and being the Slayer. Friendship and family are presented as more of less one and the same a few episodes later in Family, and the choice Buffy is faced with in S5 is another trolley problem - the life of Dawn against the world. This time, it's more specifically tied to the Slayer/Killer dichotomy through the prophecy that Buffy is faced with ("Death is your gift"). This frames the similar choices she faced in Becoming and Graduation Day in the same light, with Buffy even specifically comparing this to the former.

BUFFY: I sacrificed Angel to save the world. I loved him so much. But I knew ... what was right. I don't have that any more. I don't understand. I don't know how to live in this world if these are the choices. If everything just gets stripped away. I don't see the point. I just wish that... I just wish my mom was here. The spirit guide told me that death is my gift. Guess that means a Slayer really is just a killer after all. - 5x22 The Gift

S5 is soaked in this Killer-vs-Slayer idea, and that's part of why I love it so much. It opens with Buffy having gained an appreciation of killing. She goes out not to patrol, but to hunt. To revel in the enjoyment of the kill, just as Faith did. There's also a constant theme of people identifying Buffy as a Killer. Importantly, it's a theme of her believing them. She knows that there is a kernel of truth there, and it develops from a subconcious worry in Restless to a more concrete fear in Intervention, where Buffy explicitly says that she is afraid that being the Slayer means losing her humanity and ability to love, and become nothing more than a "killer". Eventually, Buffy is so ground down by it that when The Gift rolls around, she simply accepts that the Slayer is "just a killer" as an inevitability.

BUFFY: Yeah, I prefer the term slayer. You know, killer just sounds so... DRACULA: Naked? - 5x01 Buffy vs Dracula

SPIKE: Death is your art. You make it with your hands, day after day. That final gasp. That look of peace. - 5x07 Fool for Love

FIRST SLAYER: Death is your gift. - 5x18 Intervention

I also like the way that Joyce is repeatedly linked to this idea. Buffy's response to Sineya points to Joyce's death as a rebuttal to the idea of death being a gift ("Death is not a gift. My mother just died. I know this."). Buffy talks about Joyce just before accepting that "a slayer is a killer" in The Gift. Spike's speech about Slayer's having a death wish comes immediately before Buffy finds out that Joyce is going into hospital. The idea of the Slayer as an instrument of death, killing every day, is juxtaposed against the mundane horror of what death is really like, as demonstrated in The Body. As the Slayer, Buffy must cause death, but this is what death looks like. It's hard and painful and mortal and stupid. Eventually Buffy reaches a point where she just can't do this anymore. She can't live in a world where she must choose to be a killer, because she understands death more now than ever.

It's here that the show explicitly connects the ideas of utilitarianism and being a killer. Buffy says that killing Dawn to save the world (and by association killing Angel to save the world, or killing Faith to save Angel), would make the Slayer "just a killer". This goes back to S3, and Faith arguing that the death of one innocent was washed out by the many people that they save, and that being Slayers gives them the right to make that calculation. Tara points to Giles in this episode, the voice of utilitarianism, and identifies him as a killer. Giles himself identifies himself as one when he kills Ben, and here draws a line between being a utilitarian/killer, and being a hero.

BEN: Need a ... a minute. She could've killed me. GILES: No she couldn't. Never. ... She's a hero, you see. She's not like us.

Some people criticise the moral absolutism of this, and could very justifiably argue that killing Ben, or even killing Dawn, would be the most moral thing in this situation. Who are we to say that Dawn's life is more valuable than the lives of a thousand other 14 year old girls, with families of their own that love them just as much as Buffy loves Dawn? But within the context of the show, I think it makes sense for them to reject utilitarianism. Buffy is a Sisyphean story. There will always be another apocalypse after this one is stopped. There will always be another impossible choice with innocent lives in the balance. Through that lens, the idea of "killing one to save a thousand" becomes meaningless, because there's a thousand apocalypses, and if you kill one to stop them all, then you've killed a thousand. That's how Buffy feels - she killed Angel, she killed Faith, now she has to kill Dawn? Where does it end? Eventually it all just gets stripped away, so what's the point? There's no winning move here. The only way to break the cycle is to change the game.

We should also keep in mind Buffy's words at the start of the episode. She fears that the Slayer is "just a killer", but she is also identified by the guy she saves in the alley in the opening scene as "just a girl". And Buffy agrees ("That's what I keep saying."). Buffy is The Vampire Slayer, which dictates that she must make these impossible choices, but she's also Buffy, which means she is a human being with the power of free will. She gets a choice - not a good choice, but a choice. As a human being, she can reject the options in front of her and find a third way. She can transform the whole game, and turn "Death is your gift" into an empowering statement. This was heavily foreshadowed of course - the Guide in Intervention outright stated that Buffy was full of love, and that "love will bring [her] to [her] gift". But it takes Buffy working through these fears and emotions and realising that she simply can't take Dawn's life. She chooses a new way. She avoids being a killer by rejecting utilitarian ethics. To paraphrase The Last Jedi, she wins by saving what she loves. Ultimately, she's not a killer, but a girl, a friend, a sister, a Slayer - a hero.

So season five is very much the climax and resolution of this theme. Very few themes ever disappear entirely from this show though, and this one continues to echo throughout the show. In S6, Buffy again fears she is slipping into darkness. That there is some kind of darkness that is innate within her. But where in S5 this was a fear that she recoiled from but at times seemed inevitable, in S6 it is something that she is drawn towards, that disgusts her but that she takes a kind of comfort in, because it's easier than facing the mundane reality of her depression.

This yearning for her own darkness takes the physical form of Spike, who she uses for what is basically sexual self-harm. Spike steps into Faith's role as Buffy's shadow self for much of the later seasons, and , and like Faith he represents killing as hedonism, and as sex. There's no vampire who so aggressively blurs the lines of sex and death/violence as Spike. Her fear that killing is part of her nature, and her fear of her own sexual desire, are very much one and the same. When she breaks down in Dead Things, she talks about the darkness within her, and of her shame over her own sexuality.

Spike also repeats Faith's utilitarian justifications from Consequences in the episode which forms the climax of Buffy's self-destruction, Dead Things. When Buffy attempts to metaphorically commit suicide by turning herself into the police, she does it while constantly identifying herself as a killed. She repeats some variation on "I killed her" four times in just two scenes. She wants to be punished for being a killer, and not protected for being the slayer. She has grappled with this several times, and is still resolute that being the slayer does not give her a license to kill, but this time she is desperate to be seen as a killer, to give justification for her own self-hatred.

The final way S6 explores this idea is with Willow. When she is after Warren, Buffy tries to stop her, not for Warren's sake but for Willow's. She knows that taking a life changes a person, and implicitly draws on the first time she chose to take a human's life, the moment she "became a killer" on that rooftop with Faith.

Buffy (re: going to kill Faith): I can't play kid games anymore. This is how she wants it. Xander: I just don't want to lose you. Buffy: I won't get hurt. Xander: That's not what I mean. - 3x21 Graduation Day

XANDER: She should be coming down at some point, shouldn't she? I mean, back there she was out of her head ... running on grief and magicks. BUFFY: Doesn't matter . Willow just killed someone. Killing people changes you. Believe me, I know. - 6x21 Two to Go Killing Warren might have been justified given what a complete piece of shit he was - just as killing Angel was justified, just as killing Faith was, just as killing Ben was. That doesn't matter, because Buffy still recognises that the act of killing leaves permanent psychological scars, which she is still bearing.

In S7, we get the final major exploration of the "does the Slayer have a right to kill" idea in Selfless. Here, Buffy seems to have reached the conclusion that Cordelia, Faith and Spike (all her shadow selves) were right, and she does, in fact, have the right to pass judgment because she's the Slayer, when she decides she has to kill Anya.

"It is always different! It's always complicated. And at some point, someone has to draw the line, and that is always going to be me. You get down on me for cutting myself off, but in the end the slayer is always cut off. There's no mystical guidebook. No all-knowing council. Human rules don't apply. There's only me. I am the law." - 7x05 Selfless

However, I don't think the show wants us to take this as gospel. Buffy is conclusively proved wrong in this episode, since killing Anya doesn't work, and it's Willow who finds a third option that saves the day. In S7, the idea of the Slayer-as-Killer is more an incidental theme, while the central exploration is the idea of "one girl in all the world". It explores the nature of that tragedy, that Buffy is by definition alone. Because of this, she necessarily must be a killer. She does have to pass judgement, because there is nobody else capable of it. She has to be the one to hunt and kill vampires. She has to face the choice to kill Angel, to kill Faith, to kill Dawn, to kill Anya.

This is where the theme ends up - as a tragic inevitability. Buffy must always make that choice. Making the selfless choice to kill her boyfriend doesn't stop it. Avoiding the choice and dying herself doesn't even stop it. That boulder just rolls down the hill again and again, and Buffy is the only one who can push it back up. The Slayer is a killer because the Slayer is alone. So the only way to break that cycle is for the Slayer to no longer be alone. There are still elements of The Slayer, and of Buffy as a person, that are linked to death and killing, but she has mostly made peace with those parts, and now can be free of having to be "the law" too.

[lucky-charming-cat]

Are we getting a reveal this season?

Possible. And here's why

1. This was explained multiple times by multiple people, so I'll keep it short - the whole secrets theme of season 4. A damn reveal to Alya in episode 3 - it all screams preparing ground for a BIG secret reveal in the finale. But you probably already know that.

Now here's the interesting stuff

2. Seasons 6&7 were confirmed after s4 and s5 were already written. Which means the plot for s4&5 was planned out before they knew there'd be a s7.

Now, from the beginning the show creators have been building up this idea of a superhero team. It's an amazing money maker - so much merch! So many possibilities!

But it hasn't happened yet. It's slooooowly starting - with Alya getting her miraculous permanently - but it's not gonna happen at least until the s4 finale. Which means it's basically not happening in season 4. But a proper superhero team (not something one time like Miracle Queen) is bound to happen eventually.

And season 5 is the perfect moment to develop this idea. The possibly (well, not anymore) final season - rich, colorful, with multiple characters, new adventures, new challenges. A new era, you might wanna say. And what's better to end the old era, to have a fresh beginning (making it easier to attract new viewers - may I remind you that the original target audience will not really be as much of a target audience when s5 airs) than the Big Event everyone's been waiting for. They need a new generation of viewers, and for that to happen, they need to close a chapter of this four-seasons-long arc.

Twilight Sparkle stopped writing letters about friendship lessons to Princess Celestia at some point. A new era in the show started. Then Starlight Glimmer came, and another new era started.

Kids won't be kids forever, kids' shows need to change and adapt to still entertain an audience that doesn't necessarily know the first few seasons.

It was always supposed to be like this, only now they have s6 and s7 to continue s5's path.

tl;dr It's profitable for the creators to make s5 something new and different than the previous ones, and since it was kind of a final season before, it makes sense to close the first chapter in season 4.

(it also generally gives a great opportunity to continue the show without it getting bad)

3. The Awakening Movie.

You know what would suck?

Having the reveal in the movie happen literally YEARS before it happened in the actual show. A marketing disaster.

It would completely change the dynamic, change the speculations, make people care less about the show because "it's probably gonna be similar". The Big Unknown is an obvious priceless viewer bait.

Now, the movie was revealed in 2018. And it's supposed to cover the plot of the whole show until season 5.

S4 was originally supposed to premiere in Autumn 2020, but, of course, 👑 happened, which is why we're currently in the middle of release chaos.

The movie was planned for "late 2021-early 2022". Season 5 is currently planned for Summer 2022.

If you do the math with Miraculous release dates from seasons 2 and 3 (ah yes, the golden days of the big hiatus)... Suppose S4 would premiere in Autumn 2020 (remember, it's 26 episodes that need to air, and it's not like they air every week), as it was originally planned.

Would they really be able to deliver the whole of season 5 before the movie?

No. At least I don't think so. It would maybe start airing, but we wouldn't reach the finale.

Adding that to my second point, The Big Thing needs to happen in season 4, so that the movie doesn't spoil it for us.

NOW. Separately, all of my points would just be interesting observations. But combining that with the whole secrets theme...

It's happening, guys.

I just hope the release order won't screw it up.