#i think laios and falin should get to kill

[busket]

I understand personal preference and that some people just don't like ships with men, and that's ok! but I'm annoyed at the implication from some fans that labru has less depth as a relationship than farcille or any other wlw ship in dungeon meshi, and the idea that people are only shipping it as a joke, or because they're horny, or because they're misogynistic and don't want to look at female characters, etc etc. I've seen people call it like, "bloodlust obsession that turns to horniness" and it made me realize that the people who don't ship labru don't understand their dynamic at all. labru shippers didn't just pull this out of our asses lol

a lot of the story around kabru involves how he and laios are perfect opposites of eachother. NARRATIVE FOILS, if you will. everywhere kabru thrives (social interaction, charisma, the surface) laios completely fails. and everywhere that laios is most successful (in the dungeon against monsters) kabru keeps getting killed. not only that but their desires are mirrors of each other too: laios grew up bullied by humans and wanted to become a monster, kabru grew up dehumanized by his villagers and then the elves, so he wants to affirm his identity as a human being.

despite how kabru should be repulsed by laios due to his hatred of monsters, he's drawn to him instead. kabru spends the entire story trying to get to laios to talk to him and to get to know him. firstly he knows laios is closest to defeating the dungeon lord and needs to sus out if he's a good person, but he admits that he really wants to be friends with laios too, not just to determine his virtue but to see what value laios sees in monsters. he wants laios to share his interest in people, he wants laios to be interested in him back. kabru never had any true bloodlust or desire to kill laios, he was prepared to go that far if laios wasn't a good person, but once finding out that he has good intentions kabru spends all his energy trying to help laios instead. and when you consider that kabru spent his childhood believing he was half monster because of how he was ostracized in utaya, his curiosity about how laios could possibly love monsters feels so much more personal.

and for laios, he's not used to anyone taking an interest in him. people are constantly telling him he's weird, and the person he believed to be his best friend told him he couldn't stand him. he misses falin so dearly because she thinks he's the coolest man on earth, so meeting someone and being told "I hate monsters but I still want to know YOU" would have an impact on him, I think. in postcanon they become good friends, kabru becomes laios' right hand man to help him with more of the dicey social aspects of being a leader. laios asks him to stay by his side and help him, and kabru says "yeah, that's what I've been doing this whole time"

I wouldn't claim that a romantic relationship between them is CANON, but I wouldn't even say that about farcille either tbh (and I love farcille just as much so don't come for me lol) this isn't a comedy crackship that yaoi fans just made up. laios and kabru are really multi dimensional characters and they're made to reflect eachother in every way, even down to their physical design. so it's not out of nowhere that people ship them

[johannestevans]

What I love about the laios/kabru dynamic is that like. Laios is more comfortable with and obsessed with animals and monsters, monsters being his Special Interest

And it's like. One thing feeds into the other - he's alienated so he relates to and studies monsters

And this in turn triggers everyone around him to alienate and ostracize him further

MEANWHILE like. Kabru has always been ostracised because of like, his own features, his light eyes contrasted with his skin, and his early exposure to the monsters of the dungeon nearby

For him BECAUSE of like, not his fear of monsters, but because of the political situation around how everyone there was killed, HIS focus and obsession and his own autistic Special Interest has become other people. Their thoughts, their machinations, the ways they lie and obscure

And because of people's obfuscations, as soon as he meets laios his obsession becomes laser-focused on laios himself, because this is a man with almost no machinations. He's been so focused on animals and now monsters his whole life, and SO autistic without learning to mask

Whereas kabru like. ALL he has is a mask. Esp BC of the implication of racism that he's experienced within the text like, even his face has been treated physically as more like a mask than a human face, and then its just lies on masking on obfuscation on repression

Whereas laios feels every single emotion immediately and painfully, and he expresses almost all of them openly - his love, his enthusiasm, his curiosity, his frustration, and to a limited extent, his rage and anger

Here you have laios, treated like a monster so he's become obsessed with monsters, to the extent that he almost fears people more despite craving to be with them, to be seen by them and loved by them, and to an extent being blind to the extent of their cruelties

And here you have Kabru, not treated like a monster, but treated effectively as less IMPORTANT than a monster, because of other people's politics and motivations, to the extent that he has become obsessed with appearing like The Right Person to every single person he meets

It's no wonder that Kabru should become so utterly obsessed with Laios, with studying him - and no surprise either that Laios should enthuse about this undivided and devoted attention that feels equivalent in EFFORT to love and friendship... And isn't that enough?

And at first, no, but I think. So rapidly it would and could become so. Because laios' loyalty is so fierce and devoted, and I think Kabru would be blindsided by how EAGER laios is to please him even though kabru remains, in his own eyes, distant and a bit apart from him

And kabru for like. Studying laios so fervently and focusedly, as intense and off-putting as that may be, he comes to and will come further to understand laios better and more intuitively than anyone else, and no one in the world but falin has ever BOTHERED to do that

And isn't that love? Kabru might not call it that, might be disdainful at the very idea, but if it walks like love and talks like love and feels like love and takes even more effort than love... That's enough, right? That's good, right? Laios is grateful

And the more grateful he is, the more frustrated Kabru will get. Doesn't he respect himself? Doesn't he want more? Doesn't he care enough to DEMAND more?But laios doesn't like to make demands - he likes to be grateful for what he's given. For kabru.

[bloodyshadow1]

look, the thing with Toshiro is that he is not a bad guy, I don't think he would work out with Falin no matter the case, but he's not a bad guy. He is just a guy in a foreign land, and he was sheltered as a rich guys son who has retainers instead of friends, he doesn't know how to act towards people.

He is friends with Laios, yes things in ep 17 came to a boil and Toshiro finally exploded, but that doesn't mean he really hates him. He might not be the best friend Laios imagined him to be, but he doesn't hate the guy despite what he said. Yes, I'm sure he was genuinely bothered by the way Laios acts like the rest of the party, sans Falin, but him exploding at Laios because it's the worst possible time is not the same as him secretly always hating him.

At the time things break bad, had just had a party wipe where not only did they lose to a dragon, the woman he was infatuated with didn't leave with them. He did what he thought was best, get skilled retainers and head back into the dungeon. He has been fighting monsters through the dungeon, not resting, sleeping or eating for days. He finds out the same girl he likes was revived with dark magic, then turned into a Chimera that tears through his retainers, and almost kills them. As he's panicking Laios keeps saying the wrong thing at the wrong time and he finally explodes.

People are not just who they are at their worst moments, just like they're not who they only who they are at the best moments in their life. He's not an asshole for believing Marcille is dangerous because of her using dark magic when he thinks it turned Falin into a chimera and the social norms is dark magic is evil. Especially when Falin became the most powerful monster in the dungeon capable of using magic that slaughtered his retainers and every other adventurer in a few minutes.

*Spoilers for the manga*

When he's had time to think and get some rest and food, Toshiro is on Laios' side, willing to fight elite elven dungeon specialists on his behalf.

Also I know Laios is the fandom's precious little autistic bean, but he isn't guiltless in their relationship. Sure, there was not a malicious bone in Laios' body, but it doesn't change that he saw a foreigner in a bar and blasted him with questions without asking him his name. Yes, Toshiro should have explained, but everyone in the Touden party is neurodivergent, you cannot change my mind. Sometimes it is easier to avoid awkwardness by not correcting people when they get your name wrong. Toshiro didn't think he's be a part of Laios' party for years, he thought it was a meeting with a stranger in a bar, and then he's Shuro for 2 years to everyone in the party and the adventurers community.

People are complicated, and they should be allowed to be. Toshiro might not get a lot of chapters, but it is clear he is not just some asshole who has secretly hated Laios, it's just at the worst moment of his life after a series of terrible weeks things come to a boil. The whole manga/anime has more nuanced characters than any I've read/watched.

[thetransguard]

okay i knew it was coming but its kind of killing me how obtuse people are being towards toshiro (im not fucking calling him shuro and honestly yall should stop with that too). should he have told laios how he really felt about him, sure, yeah, but im going to go off on a limb here and suggest maybe! maybe! he's been raised in an environment where it's actually like legitimately unheard of and taboo to be very open and straight forward about his feelings. the entire party has been calling him by a name that literally isnt even his own because he is so used to quashing down his own reactions to others. like i think other poc diaspora dunmeshi fans might agree with me here but he just reads like someone whos not bothered enough to correct every microaggression thrown his way. because that shit is exhausting. and after like five hours of laios bugging him about stories of his homeland why would he have a good opinion of him. genuinely. im not saying laios is entirely at fault but neither is toshiro. i love laios too but it is Very Weird that toshiro gets the brunt of their friendship's falling out (ill circle back to this)

also to preface this i am a farcille shipper so im. not pushing for falin/toshiro. but people acting like his affection for falin is somehow not relevant or he has no devotion to falin at all is CRAZY. immediately after being teleported out he threw himself back into that dungeon and didnt eat or sleep properly to rescue her. we literally watch him collapse from it. after multiple episodes emphasizing the importance of nutrition and caring for yourself and your take away from a man willing to toss that away is that he just. doesn't care for falin? why is he in the dungeon then? answer. quickly. granted he's not as onboard with the whole black magic thing but his concerns are literally valid and before we see falin chimera he seems to have been talked down from reporting them all for it. its the proof of his concerns of the use of black magic that he decides to go up and report them at all. his bond with falin isn't nearly as strong as marcille's bond but its also not nothing. ignoring that or minimising his own sacrifices is such a nasty bad faith disservice to his character.

speaking of bonds. toshiro doesn't hate laios. guys. his last act this episode was to give laios and the rest of the party (yes, even black magic user marcille) a way out of the hole that they'd already dug for themselves. fleeing to the east and leaving falin to the elves isnt the best case scenario but it is one that lets the majority of the party survive whatever's coming. its the realistic play. is this the act of a man who hates his former colleagues? is he wishing harm and further misfortune on them? his actions speak for themselves. you guys are being way too hard on toshiro and its really fucking telling. this goes for white viewers especially

[laikabu]

I think what fundamentally tips me off abt the shuro discourses is that there's this common sentiment of "marcille should get pissed and chew shuro out for "chasing" falin/being mean to laios, give shuro what he deserves" which is just hilariously transparent on how self-righteous and projecting the ppl saying these things are bc it is so clearly not actually abt what falin and laios want. Yknow, a big theme in dunmeshi! I'd forgive ppl for not knowing abt the extra, but falin outright says she needs to make decisions and take stands for HERSELF and she amicably turns shuro's proposal down, which he accepts. She's not being preyed on or being taken advantage of and so she doesn't need some defense against what is very much an imaginary offense to make shuro look bad. And laios does the same! Laios beats shuro up and they come out with their grievances on the table and all honesty there, and they are explicitly on good terms by the end! The siblings clearly like him and see value in their relationships with him despite any conflict they had. That literally should be the end of it.

(Also, not a fan abt the way white fans want to write off the micro aggressions and "forgive" laios for something they have no room saying anything abt! Acting like it's impossible for him to be racist when there's a bonus comic of him (and falin) outright talking abt "savage" people on his hometown's mountains that were "barbarians" they killed onsight! Given this manga's emphasis on cultural disconnect you'd think we'd be smarter abt this!)

exactly LOL throughout the whole manga the touden siblings treated shuro with kindness and respect even after the big fight, so i'm really confused about the hostility towards him?💀

i noticed that in the anime, kabru doesn't actually give his name out at all, and all instances of laios saying kabru's name correctly were scrubbed, so i'm curious if this has anything to do with changing the "kapru" joke somehow since they did consult kui in changing small scenes. i guess we'll find out tomorrow.

[prismatoxic]

cause I need to hear more of your sweet thoughts bout those two freaks, favorite laichil moments that have been stewing in the back of the mind?

oh gosh ummmmm

well now that episode 11 is out i am so very deeply fond of laios's visual pan from kensuke to chilchuck's dawning, rage-filled horror at what's happened

i think the swearing was better in the manga--not because the anime let him say actual words (bc i think that's awesome) but bc in the manga i thought they were still running while chilchuck was doing this. good visual

OF COURSE THE BEST EPISODE 11 CHILAIOS MOMENT... TO ME... is when chilchuck tells laios they're going to have a Talk later

the dub delivery kind of disappointed me (as it always does) BUT IN THE SUB the way laios immediately agrees is so very much, to me, a "yes sir" moment. and if you read my fic you know i'm very into this

i have a lot of little canon moments that i'm super fond of and am very excited to see in the anime... my faves are often when chilchuck is being a hostile little goblin but i'm so fucking excited about what i assume will be episode 13. you know. because

um

okay i have a lot of thoughts actually (MANGA SPOILERS I'M SERIOUS)

so. chapter 30.

chilchuck goes to get the party's supplies from where they were abandoned in the house they had dinner with falin at, having his own character arc along the way. we have seen him try to convince both leed and senshi that the smartest thing to do will be to lie to laios and marcille so they can return to the surface. trying to continue in this state will kill them, but neither of them will rest if they think they can still find falin. neither senshi nor leed agree with chilchuck's plan, and leed insinuates he's a coward. chilchuck stays firm. even after he's clearly pushed off kilter by leed saying he should just tell the truth, we don't have any concrete reason to think he will.

then they return and senshi is struggling to keep a now-awake laios down. laios is wounded and weak and senshi is a dwarf but laios is so deeply, fervently determined to get falin back that he's very hard to stop.

chilchuck, by contrast, is not strong at all, but somehow his added presence gets laios to sit back down. chilchuck rests a hand on laios's shoulder and even before he says anything, laios is looking at him. he knows something is coming. i think he resents chilchuck for it, too--the implication that there's anything to be said here.

we don't know at this point what chilchuck intends to say. senshi still thinks he wants to lie and intends to stop him, but i think it's clear in this moment that chilchuck has changed his mind.

he kneels--proud, all-too-aware of "how his people are treated for their size" chilchuck kneels between laios's legs. and i'm not pointing this out for horny reasons, for once.

he's bringing himself closer to laios--assuming a position associated with pleading and willingly making himself not the authority in this interaction. he believes, wholeheartedly, in what he wants to do and what needs to be said, but...

he also knows laios is hurting.

laios is... devastated. he's terrified. he's angry. but he's also still laios, and he knows chilchuck, insofar as chilchuck has allowed him to. he also respects chilchuck. so this--a teary-eyed plea to do what goes against everything he feels--gives him pause. chilchuck does not beg, and he does not cry.

...and he never talks about how he feels.

but he does, here: he doesn't want to lose his friends. and he does mean all of them, senshi included. he has three people to think of--three people whose lives he cannot in good conscience allow to be put at risk any more than they already have been. even so, he acknowledges that however laios feels about falin is probably incomparable.

but he tries to give laios hope--he gives him a plan of action. he says we will come back. he tries to impress upon laios that this isn't defeat and it isn't surrender, it's being safe. it's giving themselves an actual fighting chance at getting falin back.

laios doesn't want to... but he also doesn't say that. all the things he's feeling haven't gone away, but he's also aware of just how big this situation is if chilchuck opened himself up this way. chilchuck does not and never has done this. up until the fight with the red dragon, you could be forgiven for assuming chilchuck is just a contracted coworker who's a little fond of the party and nothing more.

senshi and leed, the only people who knew chilchuck's plan to lie to the others, don't openly acknowledge his change of heart... but they back him up. they pitch in to push laios just a little further, to get him to agree.

and it works.

so. um. episode 13 will be good i think

[lyscot-blog]

Chilchuck is a tsundere dad,

and why did he stick with Laios?

SPOILERS FOR CHAPTER 30/48/56/ADVENTURE'S BIBLE ONWARDS.

Chilchuck Tims is a rogue. A bitter old rogue. But I guess it's more accurate to call him a professional adventurer. That's probably what people want to see him as. He's very pragmatic and realistic but sarcastic and prideful. The man is on the verge of retiring with a few things to his name. He founded a halfling union and is respected in his community as *the* guy that can go deeper down the dungeon. Chil gave his life for dungeoneering, he knows the politics and the dirty side of his job. Some people can see him as an insurance in their team. Because he has the skills and brains to keep you safe, go deeper and that you are paid well.

But why the hell did Chilchuck agreed to join on Laios' suicide mission?

Think about it.

Half of Laios' team are either dead or left the group, the remaining is a weird oddball of a leader and the other is a mess of an elf that doesn't really see you as an adult. They both can be reckless and can definitely get themselves killed. The group is also low on supplies and desperate for food. So there's that.

Although he may criticize the group, he is close to one member, Namari. He knows her situation and they share the same pragmatic view and drinks together. So why didn’t he follow in Namari's footsteps.

But yes in chapter 30 we actually got to know that Chilchuck actually cares about the group underneath his cynicism and sarcasm. Because unlike his optimistic and outlandish companions, he is the straight man.

But think again and I know he cares. But if he actually cared, he would not let Laios and Marcille to even set foot in the dungeon to their death. Remember he agreed to these deadly conditions before meeting Senshi. Deadly conditions that a seasoned adventurer like himself should already know. But he accepted it and was calmer about it as well.

So, does he trust the group? Does he not trust the group? Should he trust Laios?

Lets look at Chilchuck's most polarizing topic, group relations.

Despite Chil's critical nature, I think in my opinion Chilchuck respects and recognize everyone's strengths and weaknesses. But because he knows people's qualities, he likes to point them out and berate them from making further mistakes. He's harsh, but he wants to keep everyone alive. So that's why I think he sometimes see Laios and Marcille as immature or irresponsible at time. In turn, I think he sees himself as the most capable/reliable person in the group. With good reasons of course.

He knows how close Falin is to everybody, he will surely keep note of it. So when Laios and Marcille are automatically ready to save Falin despite deadly odds, I don't think he's surprised, he's sure they will die for Falin and no one will be there to revive them. But I don't think Chilchuck wants to see the remaining member go to their deaths and as the person that's supposed to keep everyone alive, he must have some guilt. After all, in some ways, he still cares for his own family, so he might understand Laios. But because of how reckless Laios is and how stubborn Marcille can be, I don't think he can stop them from going further. He'll help and he'll just ride along with these insane people.

Abit related. Isn't this against his halfling union's objective. Using a highly skilled halfling to their advantage on minimal pay to go on a deadly adventure. Surely this breaks his own code, right? But he does it anyways.

Despite not liking interpersonal group conflict and being as professional as possible. There's a point in time that Chilchuck actually got attached to them, to the point where he will break his own code. Whether he likes it or not. I think that he thinks that without him, the group and/or the rescue will break apart quickly and he really does not want his group to break.

Chilchuck is not tragic (compared to others), he has a relatively normal life but definitely unfortunate. Unlike the rest, his loss at most is his wife leaving him. The loss of a love fleeing you for a reason you do not know, the fear of chasing is evident. He also keeps in touch with his daughters as well. He cares but I guess prefers an independent approach.

I did notice the way he describe his daughters is similar to how he sees the others. He describe his daughters weakness, interest and strengths. He's perceptive not just with his senses, but others as well. Like how he knew that Laios have always wanted to try eating monsters and how peculiar Senshi is. He has to know people to keep them safe of course, that's how he shows that he cares.

To dive deeper, the way he cares is different from others. Senshi takes on the more nurturing approach, he sees the others as younglings that needs to feed and take care of, to protect them is his responsibility. Chilchuck is different, although he is similar. He makes sure that they are safe and criticize their bad behavior, but he respects their privacy and freedom. He criticize Laios, but for the majority, he lets Laios leads. Because unlike Senshi, he actually has kids, he has 3 adult kids. He expects better and for them to behave up to his expectations, as proper adults.

The relationship between Chilchuck and Laios is interesting. Chilchuck knows Laios' objective and he knows he can't stop it. But he also knows that Laios can be reckless and unconventional. However, he also knows Laios can be experimental and creative, but this too can blow up on his face. So to make sure that everyone (including Laios) do not explode, he has to be there. But he knows it has to be Laios to hold the torch and lead it himself, Chilchuck just has to guide and help him sometimes. Also I think Chil is a tsundere and actually likes Laios.

Chilchuck Tims has a pride bigger than himself. He'll stick by you because he likes you even if he won't say it. There are many times where his dad like behavior comes to play, particular with criticizing Laios and respecting Izutsumi. But he is ultimately someone that will make sure everyone is safe and sound.

[erros429]

why are you calling farcille sapphic representation when they aren’t even canon

had a very lengthy internal debate with myself on whether i wanted to answer this with an essay or say something short like “because i’m sapphic and they represent me.” but you guys can have the essay too.

i’d like to preface this by saying that i understand where you’re coming from. explicit lgbt+ representation is so deeply important and queer characters in media needs to be normalized instead of tokenized so that queer viewers can feel like there is a world that accepts them and that they can belong in.

HOWEVER. this does not also mean that queercoding and subtext should be devalued, especially given how ingrained it is in queer culture and media. historically, when it was a lot more dangerous to show a character as queer without villainizing them in some way, subtext was all a queer viewer could have. but it’s because of those small hints (see: the legend of korra) that we could have popular media that unabashedly shows queer love. however, even that representation has been stifled, either by only allowing the queer love to be shown in the end (see: adventure time, she-ra, and voltron) or by straight up canceling the show itself (see: the owl house, warrior nun, i am not okay with this, sense8, and first kill).

now let’s get into the actual discussion of farcille. more often than not, shipping arises more from seeing the buildup of a couple rather than when they actually get into a relationship. and this goes for any ship, not just queer ones. but you’re not questioning me on shipping farcille, you’re questioning that i called them sapphic representation without them actually being canon (and therefore they can’t be considered representation).

however, i wholeheartedly think that farcille cannot be read as anything other than romantic, and i genuinely believe that (MANGA SPOILERS) they’d pursue a relationship post-canon, now that falin is un-chimera’d and marcille has a less anxious attachment style to the people she loves. dungeon meshi doesn’t focus on romance whatsoever, and there honestly wouldn’t be any time to show romance anyway because neither character was in a position to be ready for one, so the only appropriate moment would be post-canon.

and that’s where the importance of subtext comes in. ryoko kui’s storytelling relies heavily on her audience’s media literacy skills. though laios is never explicitly stated as autistic, his character is written in such an exquisite way, that any viewer could easily guess what she was trying to represent there. i would 100% consider him to be autistic representation, even without him saying it in-text. now why shouldn’t i be allowed to extend that same logic to farcille being sapphic representation? all the tell-tale queercoding signs are there, just like all the tell-tale autistic-coding is present in laios. i don’t need the two girls to kiss to be aware of how utterly devoted and in love they are with each other.

[ruporas]

Hey sorry if I’m being annoying but. I see posts of dungeon meshi every so often and I came across your harpy piece (which is AMAZING btw) but why does falin (I think that’s her name) turn into a harpy?? If you know please spoil me I just I have to know if it’s doomed yuri or not

haha not annoying at all! here’s my debrief of it

important thing to note is that Falin dies in episode 1, like first minute, she is dead and the entire journey is about defeating the red dragon that killed her in order to revive her before she gets fully digested. long story short, she DID get digested with only her bones and strands of hair as her remains which makes standard resurrection impossible, but marcille is then revealed to been studying ancient/black magic and is able to revive falin using monster parts aka the now defeated and dead red dragon. falin gets revived, they’re happy for a night and talking about going back to the surface with the rest of the party, yay!

the dungeon lord senses a disturbance after his red dragon is killed though and shows up. in resurrecting falin, the red dragon’s soul had intermingled with hers so she ends up being overtaken by the dragon’s soul upon the dungeon lord’s appearance and strictly follows his orders from then on. next time she shows up in front of the party, she ruthlessly kills/injures half the people they were with and showed basically no falin-ness in battle except for a brief moment with laios (which i assumed was bait).

that’s how falin gets turned into a chimera! there were harpies that showed up with her in the recent ep, but she herself is like. a weird dragon chicken thing.

i should also note marcille and falin are childhood friends, they’re very close to one another and marcille, despite the odds, adamantly joined laios in getting falin back. i think the importance falin has in marcille’s life has been enforced so falin becoming half monster, alive but not as herself entirely and becoming wrapped in a situation where they must defeat the Dungeon Lord in order to get her back (potentially) is kind of devastating. and in the recent episode, laios nor marcille knew how to approach falin, they just knew they didn’t want/couldn’t hurt her. this entire situation is new in their world, it’s not certain whether falin will ever return to herself. they’ll continue onward in the journey, but everything is probable! so not 100% doomed, but still, devastating.

the manga is finished so i highly recommend reading it if you’re curious about what happens. i feel like the yuri is better enjoyed if you know more about the world and of marcille’s character too, because her goals and desires makes everything she has to experience a bit more tragic. if not the manga, then definitely the anime!! watching it is very fun and i believe they’ll stop the anime at a good point. but anyway i hope this answers your question! ^_^

[littlelightfish]

The hearts don't mean he is in love with no one. The problem with English is how vague of the word love is in his meaning. It envolves different kinds of caring in one single word. But I'll try to express here what I mean.

He cares, as a person, about everyone. This is a basic level of love that he haves towards everybody. He doesn't want anyone to actually die, that's what I mean. He doesn't necesarily cares about someone, but he loves them enough to not want them to die.

He starts befriending someone and gets to know it. He starts liking things about them and disliking others. He starts loving this people in another way, we'll call it liking. This is more a get-to-know phase he doesn't always like. The less he knows, the less reasons to get attached get attached he has. I think this are the kind of love the hearts show in the image. He has to make sure to keep a balance between how much he loves and how much he let's himself be loved. He doesn't want to have misunderstandings. He is in constant fear of "what if I made them love me more and they care more?"

And then it comes the deeply care that love is in the non-romantic way. This care a (good) parent has for his babies. The love that makes people suffer emotionally in an absolute different way from what it could be a heartbreak or a misunderstanding between friends. If something happens to the loved one, the pain is unbearable. It's one of the worst things rhat can happen. And Chilchuck knows this, he is father of three daughters, and his wife left him. She left, he knows the pain it is to come home and find it empty when there should be someone. He knows the guilt it comes with failing those loved ones. The shame. He doesn't like being this vulnerable. This love makes him suffer like no other does. So he is very very carefull of how much he allows himself to care about someone so he won't get to love like this.

He draws a line between work and private life because his private life envolves love and deep care, and he doesn't want to love nor care like this for people who's job is to constantly risk their lifes. He doesn't want to feel the anguish, he doesn't want to feel the loneliness it will come after the unenviable separation of the party.

He tries his best to not get attached to people. To not let people get attached to him. But he fails. He fails and falls downstairs with a whole drum set.

He can't help but to care about this people. He can't help but to love this people he's been living with the past few weeks in the risking of their lifes. He tells himself he's doing this for money and that he doesn't care, but he does.

Those hearts don't mean anything other than him caring about them. He cares about Senshi. He cares about Marcille. He cares about Laios. About Itsuzumi. About Namari. He cares in a way that hurts. He loves this people. He doesn't want to even imagine a world in where they are gone, or suffering, or in problems. They're his friends, they're something he, unwillingly, accepts as family.

He cares about Falin and Mickbell because he doesn't want them dead. He doesn't feel any anguish toward if they do or not get hurt after they're out of his sight. Sure, he cares, but he can live without thinking about them the rest of his days. It doesn't happen like that with Laios. He can't just simply let Laios go and follow Fallin just after he recover consciousness from a punch in the gut. Was it Mickbell, he would let him if he really didn't wanted. But Laios didn't wanted to sit and wait, and he had to care. He had to verbalize to himself that he cared. He had to let them know, so they would act accordingly. So they won't get themselves killed like idiots.

He doesn't want others to fall in romantic love with him. He doesn't feel romantic love towards anyone either. He isn't the man for this kind of love. He is, in fact, afraid of it. He doesn't want to fall in love, because he's still in love with his wife. She left him because he was negligent. But since when has this become the definitive stop for love? Chilchuck knows his wife is angry at him, and she has all the reason to be so! His husband, the one she loved and cared for, gets himself in dangerous situations, treats his body poorly and almost never is home. She loves him, and it hurts her to love like this, so she leaves. Like this she won't have to look at him get himself mistreated like he does. She would have the pull in her's stomach that tells her that he could be in great danger, that she could become a widow, but she tries to calm it with his daughter's mail to him. He could never. He can't imagine a world in wich they cease to exist. A world without his wife, even if she distanced herself, without his daughters, would be a world worthless of living. He knows this. Because he cares and he loves in such a deep level that he is scared of loving anyone else like this. To become so vulnerable to emotion. This vulnerable to something bad happening.

The fact that he is so afraid of loosing his wife, even after she left him, says a lot. He still cares about her. He is still in love with her. He wants to go back to what it was before, but he can't and he know its his fault. And he respects his wife's distance because he loves her. Now, he doesn't love her in the movie way, he isnt in love like a teenager would to his first girlfriend, he doesn't want to kiss her, or hug her, or be by her side at all moments of the day. He loves her. He cares about her deeply, deeply enough that he doesn't need to be by her side to care, to love. He also respects her. He can survive without her because he knows she's better with his daughter. For sure he wants to hug, kiss and be by the side of this person he loves, it would be ideal, but he can survive without thinking about it too much. It's just like with his daughters. They're all adults that now live far from him. And he is ok with it now. He sends mail and recieves mail, and even if he misses greatly, he can manage not to think about it. Because he knows she is allright. Because he knows he fucked up. He doesn't know where he fuked up, but for his wife to leave him, at least he knows he did. They never talked about it, because they both seem to have a problem in expressing themselves. She fell into a bad mood and then she disappeared. The amount of pain he must have felt it's... let's say it's quite big.

He keeps his guard up. He doesn't want to love deeply anyone. He doesn't want to feel the emptiness, the hurt, that comes after someone so dear leaves. He knows for a fact he'll be leaving this people. He knows that they could die. If he loves, it will hurt in a way nothing else hurts. He will miss. He doesn't like missing people he cares like this. This is why he doesn't want to love. This is why he doesn't want to be loved. This is why those hearts that are almost full are his main source of concern. This is why he makes the effort to keep this feelings at bay, to love only in the friendly way and with extreme caution.

But he can't controll his own love. And he ends up caring more and more about these people. He slowly makes him a part of the dangerous love zone that family means. He is afraid to confuse someone about his feelings towards them, so he still tries to maintain distance with his abusive remarks, but this only works so far. He loves and is loved. And because of this he will suffer.

I... I extended myself a bit I see...

[unkat]

chilaios medical au idea i have been bouncing in my head (will not be written until after my current one is done)

i am thinking of a like firefighter/paramedic story for these guys. where laios is a new shift commander/chief at a small middle of nowhere station and chilchuck is a medic from a big city who keeps getting reassigned because he is trying to recruit for a union and the company is trying to make his job unworkable/find a reason to let him go.

laios was promoted because of his work ethic and ability to teach other people about the ins and outs of emergency medicine, not because he wanted to be in charge. he is too new and disinterested in the company politics to throw him under the bus for other people, and by the time someone explicitly says he needs to fire him, he has gotten attached.

"he's reliable, does good work, and catches things nobody else here would have. i know he cussed out the family trying to get into the rig, but he had already told them no and they should be grateful he saved their daughter instead of filing a complaint! even if i were to discipline, he deserves a verbal warning and not dismissal. You were not there, and i am his direct superior."

(wins the argument and walks away trying not to hyperventilate)

also falin is a surgeon and marcille is a research fellow who abandoned her big-city super-focused projects to come out into the country and work with subpar equipment and an incompetent assistant. im not thinking like full rural hospital here, but closeish to it. could be an academic satellite hospital and she switched from like gene therapy trials to studying exposures/population/histology stuff.

shifting the touden hyperfixation from monsters->medical fascination i think would still get across the same vibes. falin is very nice and pleasant but she treats everyone nicely and pleasantly without actually empathizing with them. shes one of those surgeons who went to shadow a heart transplant in college and cried because it was so beautiful and then got a bunch of scholarships plus student loans for med school.

laios hunts and has a big appreciation for the lives of things he kills and butchering/using everything he can. then it translates to him being fascinated by the human body as an object more than as a being that is different and special from other animals that he is a part of. he is a fantastic emergency responder because of this- people are a pile of flesh that is broken somewhere, and he wants to figure out why. (this is something that I'm like. not sure if it is okay for me to include because it can be squicky/triggering. but i feel like when I'm unsure if I'm going too far that is when i am reaching the line i want to?)

the touden siblings still go hiking and mudding and spend their time off in the woods (marcille wears white shorts and sandels on a hike leaving laios to be very explicit and offering clothes to chilchuck when he offers him to join. chilchuck borrows his shirt and it is way too big, but he keeps it for a while.)

chilchuck is extra divorced. he facetimes with the girls a couple of times a week and gets them on rotating holidays. sometimes ex-mrs. tims invites him over for dinner because she feels sorry for him and her new boyfriend is also there. it's awkward but they both know he's harmless, just annoying and closed off. he smokes but has tried to quit 7-8 times. started when he was an emt and couldn't shake it because it helped him destress. he only knows how to drive well enough to pass his vehicle license renewals and still doesn't know what the buttons in his car do. the ac has been "broken" for a week before a station mechanic pushes the button to turn it back on (they should put a subway around here, stupid cars).

laios respects his experience and history of being at a constantly busy station that saw a variety of crazy shit. chilchuck initially resents him for being so out of touch, but grows to respect his leadership abilities. laios also always follows up on cases at the hospital to figure out the outcome and reflect on best practices.

he is the first person to get chilchuck to actually debrief after a shitty call and chil cries and never wants to talk about it again. but its like a seal in a dam has been breached, and opens up when they are cuddling on the couch. they spend more time off shift with each other. chilchuck crashes on laios' couch and initially feels like he needs excuses to do it until laios says he really likes talking with him and having him there. he tells him about the company's EAP coverage and that he encourages everyone to take advantage of it.

in the end, they hit that threshold of basically living together, and one of them would need to change their station (superior/employee romance) after they go from making out off shift in secret to seriously considering having laios meet his daughters in person. (they already think they're married because laios is always there when they call now)

[ambrosiagourmet]

thistle for ask meme!

Thistle :0

First impression

No joke I was convinced early on that Laios & the party were making like a huuuuge leap in assuming that Thistle was the Lunatic Magician TM like guys you can't just go accusing every random person you find in a living painting of being the manager. Alas... he was, in fact, the manager.

Impression now

He's so jester coded👍

I think Thistle is very interesting and a great foil to Marcille, which I looove. They are both magic elf(-ish) advisors, they both get caught up in wanting to help the people around them live longer, they both become dungeon lords in pursuit of that... I think Thistle's story as it is works well for the narrative and I don't necessarily think he was underutilized exactly, but it is a little hard not to want A Bit More sometimes. Even if I do think it would be hard to add that more in without sacrificing some of the pacing overall :')

Favorite moment

I was initially going to say the ending for them, because I do love it, but you know what? I've got a more interesting answer. My favorite Thistle scene is.... this:

This fundamentally changes the trajectory of the story. In trying to find someone to stop the Winged Lion, Thistle launches Marcille into becoming the next lord of the dungeon. The next victim of the Lion. If Thistle hadn't resurrected Marcille, then the plot would have played out totally differently. She wouldn't have been able to finish unsealing the book. Laios would have been on his own when the canaries came. Would they have just cleaned everything up more easily? Would it instead have become something worse? Would Laios somehow have unsealed the book and become the lore of the dungeon right away?

I dunno. But this action reshaped Marcille's life, and Laios', and so many other people's. And it was done out of a desire to keep fighting. To not give in.

Augh idk. It's good. Their connection is good.

Idea for a story

Thistle & Chimera Laios.

But not just a "Laios gets eaten by the dragon instead," I think it would be cool to explore an AU where for some handwavy magic reason, Laios gets his soul bound up w/ the dragon during Falin's resurrection, and he gets poofed into a dragon form.

There's a note somewhere that says that chimeras start popping up the more the lord of the dungeon starts to lose their hold on things, but having met Laios before might help Thistle eventually realize that something is Off about the dragon. From there... well maybe he starts to ask questions and gives Laios more freedom to actually answer, and things could continue from there as Laios gets enough humanity back to start to understand what's happening, and also Thistle takes more time to question the Lion's plans rather than just continue to act. They'd be stuck together, probably with Laios still under Thistle's control, but maybe as they figure out more of the truth, they'd actually work together? Need to rely on each other? I'd like to see how each of them would deal with that situation...

PLUS then on the flip side I think switching Falin into the group part way through the story (rather than at the start) could be really interesting. So the adventures on that side would be fun too.

Unpopular opinion

umm idk. Is Thistle widely regarded as a Marcille foil? Because if not then why. They are so inchresting. funky little mages.

Favorite relationship

Hmmm okay so like obviously Thistle & Marcille, but also as seen in my story idea I want to explore more of Thistle & Laios bc their interactions were fun, soo... I'll just say the Dungeon Lord quartet as a whole. I like when people draw art of them all together. Let them bond through shared trauma. And also all of them have tried to kill at least one other person there at some point. It's great. They should go on brunch dates.

Favorite headcanon

This post about Thistle's goal to eat a meal with Delgal fundamentally rewired my brain

[chilpilled]

hi i am thinking about. evil king laios with chilchuck kneeling between his legs except!! fuck it. evil chilchuck. the king and his most trusted beloved right hand man advisor (except you wouldn't know it on sight because the advisor is wearing a collar with the sigil of the demon king embossed on it) but rest assured. chilchuck is not a victim here. and then when laios is done being the evil demon king for the day they go stare into each others' eyes and whisper sweet nothings away from the prying eyes of the monster court. i think i gauve myself covif.

anon ur an absolute genius and im in love with you. ur so right. ur literally so right. im on the floor with my head in my hands…youre literally so right. im so deeply normal about the concept of chil sitting next to laios all doe eyed and innocent and then when nobody is looking hes like „laios…..you should kill them all“. i dont even care how he gets corrupted but i need it NOW its important for my physical wellbeing i need it for my survival. my entire body is shaking. i think laios should talk about how he would burn the entire world (minus falin) down for chil and chil is like aww <33 youre sweet

[jadequarze]

Jade, Jade I have a favour to ask: can you info dump about Dungeon Meshi? Work is going tits up and I was hoping for something to look forward to after my shift is over. Pretty pls?

Let me try because it's so hard not to spoil TOO much.

Dungeon Meshi is a manga about a group of adventurers who had a big fall when they were up against a red dragon and one of theirs (Falin) is killed/eaten. Once they manage to escape, the brother (Laios) wants to go back and save his sister. However, some of the members left because it's not worth the risk. Unfortunately, they don't have the golds to but supplies that then leads to the MC suggesting they should kill monsters to cook them. Who actually genuinely wants to eat monsters. He manage to convince them. Then, they meet with Senshi, who knows how to cook monsters and despite the other members reservation, enjoys the food Senshi cooked. This is a very brief summary but yeah. The running theme is going to be this, food.

The whole manga revolves around food. It starts with food and ends with food. Ryoko Kui is on point when it comes to the themes she made in the manga and it doesn't taper off. The manga have a lot of fun bits in and there are times where it's serious for character development. Like, it's a nice balance of fun and serious if that makes sense. It's not too overwhelming with information and you can see how it progresses and not feel like it gives you whiplash. It tends to end the day when the group stops to eat and gives them a chance to talk/ contemplate on what had happened hence, character growth. Eating together is the main core of the manga. Moreover, to me especially, Ryoko Kui doesn't focus too much on any romantic subplots. There are a few tease for Falin/Marcille, but other than that, it's not her main focus. You can ship them but don't expect too much of it and honestly, I don't mind at all. I didn't read this manga for romantic subplots, I just love the world building and the individual characters themself. Despite being really horny, like legit horny, it's not in a sexual way kind of horny. It's more to horny of eating or being eaten. This post is better at explaining it than I could.

Characters summary:

You have an autistic MC, Laios, who is really fixated on monsters. He has a sister, Falin, who died saving the group from the red dragon. They both live a really hard life as Falin is the only one who is magically-inclined leading to their parents keeping her under a tight leash. The way they treated Laios, especially his dad, is bad because he's not like other 'normal' children.

A cringe fail half elf girl, Marcille, who has nightmares of people leaving her due to her long life expectancy.

A divorced short dad, Chilchuck, who gets treated as a kid because he's short and looks young (especially in early chapters but eventually tapers out as they grow together). He's a half-foot (a halfling in dnd terms).

You have Senshi the dwarf (the one who has the fanservice, you'll know why soon enough). He's the cook of the group.

Finally, honestly my favorite character, you have a cat girl, Izutsumi. She appears later in the manga though. She's not the typical overly cute cat girl you usually see in medias nowadays. She's the legit cat girl, as in she acts as a cat. Moreover, as the manga progresses you can see Chilchuck taking her under his wing and basically becomes her adopted dad (which is really cute).

Again, this is really a really brief summary of the characters. There's more depth to them but I'm not saying too much. Avoiding spoilers as best as I can. The ending, THE ENDING IS SO ON POINT AND ACTUALLY FEELS FULL!!!1 The main plot has ended but that doesn't mean it ends fully because it's been mentioned that Ryoko Kui will be writing/drawing epligoues for the characters after the main plot. Which is awesome.

Here's a couple post that I think can articulate better on why I fucking love this manga:

[fumifooms]

My take on why Falin saw the Winged Lion

(chap 97 spoilers)

I have one main theory, and its central point is that Falin wouldn’t have been successfully revived if she hadn’t, without him.

After all, we’re told that the only reason revivals are possible is that the dungeon’s mana ecosystem makes it so that souls are bound to the body even after death. But when reviving her, they’re out of the dungeon and mana is fading. Marcille was assisted by elves and I seriously doubt they used ancient magic, which can bypass some of these rules and issues to an unknown extent. By those standards, it’s a miracle that reviving Falin could even possibly work.

And what is ancient magic, really? It’s mentioned that ancient magic is a magic that comes from another dimension of infinite magical energy, which is Marcille’s field of study. The same dimension the Winged Lion comes from. As the demon said himself, he is Power. He’s not a finite entity, he himself talks about his intangible and even abstract nature. He changes appearances, he can be anywhere and have as many bodies as he wants acting simultaneously without problem (as shown with his multiplying as Laios, and the ambiguous way and timeline that he hops from dungeon to dungeon), he cannot be killed. He does not exist on the same plane, in the same way, as everyone else. Ancient magic uses his energy, and though the dungeon Lord is the one that orders and shapes things to their wants, it’s the Power’s magic that actually get things done. It’s the Power’s magic that creates the creatures in the dungeon, the dungeon’s ecosystem and mana is the demon. The Power is a being of magic, he is ancient magic and ancient magic is him.

It’s not only how Falin is fused to the soul of a dragon that the Power birthed, it’s also that Falin was revived through ancient magic by Marcille. Falin owes her life to ancient magic, it’s this magic that regrew her body and bound her soul long after her body was too damaged to keep the soul bond. I think that means that there’s remain of that ancient magic in her, wether it’s in her flesh or her soul or in the very fabric of her being, and I think it’s that sliver of ancient magic in her that allowed her to come back and be revived.

The Winged Lion went back to his dimension, and who the hell knows where souls go after they leave their body and don’t become ghosts, since the Winged Lion has this "exists somewhat everywhere at once in many dimensions" thing, I could see the space where she saw him be some purgatory, but personally I see it more as an inner space thing. I think there’s a small part of the Winged Lion in every creature it materialized into life, and maybe even in everyone that he gave himself as food to like in his backstory story. And in a space as abstract as the place between life and death, that tiny presence of his can manifest itself. Wether that spark of ancient magic got used when reviving her or simply allowed her to be brought back and continues to live in her, I think it could go either way. She’s part of the dungeon forevermore, even if only in infinitesimal way.

I lean a bit more towards the former option in that last bit. But I don’t really remember wether in the worldbuilding, mana is used up and disappears or is simply transformed and moved, law of energy conservation and whatnot. Welp, I should reread it again

[eclecticopposition]

falin/marcille and laios/kabru. mav/kcom. alizarin/neon. octave/kor. friss/aleen/dianida. friss/blitz (puttin' on the fritz). kalrin/rythis. kalrin/valope. ohnyxx/mesuid. mesuid/kalrin/ohnyxx. regius/bezzle. argyro/randoh/dolome. so many questions, so little time. leaving dynamic and nature of relationship intentionally vague, giving free license to talk as much as you want about any or all of these

you're a war criminal. we love you.

these are our first vague dartboard instincts. we might change our mind about these as things go. looking at it again, these results are skewed because the ships are all pretty good. everything would be way further to the top left if there were actual ships that we don't like on here. like, you've got baseline "yeah, I could see it" interest eyebrows.

Starting from the bottom left and working counterclockwise...

Marcille/Falin: This is basically canon, we just don't care much. Good art though.

Laios/Kabru: We like both of these characters a lot and we can see where people are coming from. We also just mostly don't care. Maybe slightly more than Farcille because we actually like seeing them interact with each other and want to see where it goes? It's hard to get us on a ship without good dialogue.

Regius/Bezzle 🕺: WE HATE HIM GET HIM OUT OF OUR HALLWAY. OUT. WE'RE COMPELLED TO THROW THINGS. GOD. FUCK OFFFFFFF

Bottom right, now...

Ohnyxx/Mesuid: We can see the dynamic, we just don't like it. It is very one-sided, but it is also very funny. We could be talked into putting it higher with a good pitch.

Kalrin/Mesuid/Ohnyxx: We like this one a little more because we think Kalrin should get bullied and Ohnyxx should get mad about it and Mesuid should get in over her head. One very good fanfic could convince us.

Alizarin/Neon: Ah, they who run the gamut. Love these two. Two utopians who just won't stop.

Top right. Hi we love you.

Friss/Blitz: THEEEEEEE MOST TOXIC SHIP with a potential competitor in any ship Aleen has ever been in. It's SO bad. We want Friss to take complete control of this relationship and self-destruct so badly. We want to see Blitz be a smartass. We want to see Blitz overestimate themself. We want them to both be composed icy assholes with an unbelievable amount of history because one of them helped kill ALMOST EVERYONE FRISS KNOWS. You KNOW we are on this shit on some level we LITERALLY wrote them having a martial arts duel where for bug gender reasons they both mostly use their legs

Mav/K-Com: You know this is so funny. You know it is. They have chemistry. This is a classic for a reason.

Kalrin/Valope: See we could SEE it. You know we could see it. These two would go together. Give us one really good fake dating AU because you know they are doing it for more fucked up nefarious reasons than any that have ever been seen before. They could kill each other. Kalrin canonically likes her. Are they attracted to each other? Probably not. Or like, maybe a little. But that never mattered. What matters is the scheme.

Kalrin/Rythis: This is cheating. This is cheating you can't do this to us. You know we love Rythis. You KNOW that this whole thing is a disaster that actually works because we TOLD YOU. You can't take out this thing that we said would start to fix Kalrin Pyrhis knowing that we SAID that for the first time in their life they would catch feelings and then get FUCKING DUMPED and ACTUALLY BE SO MAD ABOUT IT

And the laudable top left;

Friss/Aleen/Dianida: Two things. 1) This ship is canon, Dianida just doesn't know it. And 2) We oscillate between being like "meh" and being like LOOK AT OUR AWFUL OLD WOMEN. LOOK AT FRISS. LOOK AT THIS TRAGEDY. COME PLAY A KINGDOM GAME WITH US. This is a case of "sometimes can't muster two words, sometimes can talk for an hour."

Regius/Bezzle 😔: OKAY. FINE. YOU GOT US. IT'S EXTREMELY COMPELLING. THESE HORRIBLE MEN GOT US. OKAY? ARE YOU HAPPY? WE ARE COMPELLED BY THIS SHIMMY SHAKING CREEP AND THIS EVIL YOUTH PASTOR. WE WOULD ONLY BE MORE COMPELLED IF THEY GOT EMOTIONALLY INVOLVED. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? THIS WOULD SKYROCKET TO TOP-SLIGHTLY RIGHT IF THEY GOT EMOTIONALLY INVOLVED. IF THEY WERE EVEN A LITTLE BIT IN LOVE INSTEAD OF JUST BEING FUCKING AWFUL QUID PRO QUO GOLF PARTNERS. WE WOULD BE ON THE EDGE OF OUR SEAT. CAN YOU IMAGINE. CAN YOU *IMAGINE.*

Octave/Kor: Listen. We just. Sometimes you draw things. Sometimes you think about things. These two are actually good together. We don't even know or care if it's romantic. There is a trust and they are both such angry competent people. Parentified children in a world with no parents. This is so important to us as the biggest, most vital relationship that Octave makes for themself. This is a legitimate loyalty bond.

Argyro/Randoh/Dolome: IT'S SO FUCKING GOOD. THREE OF OUR ALL TIME FAVORITE GUYS. THIS DESERVES THE EPIC OF THE CENTURY. IT'S. UNBELIEVABLE!! IT IS UNBELIEVABLE. TWO GUYS WHO DO NOT KNOW WHAT HORS D'OEUVRES ARE AND ARE TRYING TO FUCKING FAKE IT SO BAD. ONE GUY WHO KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT HORDERVES ARE AND IT'S YOU. WHAT IS THAT VERY FAST MAN DOING ON YOUR ROOF. ALEXA PLAY TASTY FISH