#i think laios and falin should get to kill

[obligatory-name-change]

reading dungeon meshi

[busket]

I understand personal preference and that some people just don't like ships with men, and that's ok! but I'm annoyed at the implication from some fans that labru has less depth as a relationship than farcille or any other wlw ship in dungeon meshi, and the idea that people are only shipping it as a joke, or because they're horny, or because they're misogynistic and don't want to look at female characters, etc etc. I've seen people call it like, "bloodlust obsession that turns to horniness" and it made me realize that the people who don't ship labru don't understand their dynamic at all. labru shippers didn't just pull this out of our asses lol

a lot of the story around kabru involves how he and laios are perfect opposites of eachother. NARRATIVE FOILS, if you will. everywhere kabru thrives (social interaction, charisma, the surface) laios completely fails. and everywhere that laios is most successful (in the dungeon against monsters) kabru keeps getting killed. not only that but their desires are mirrors of each other too: laios grew up bullied by humans and wanted to become a monster, kabru grew up dehumanized by his villagers and then the elves, so he wants to affirm his identity as a human being.

despite how kabru should be repulsed by laios due to his hatred of monsters, he's drawn to him instead. kabru spends the entire story trying to get to laios to talk to him and to get to know him. firstly he knows laios is closest to defeating the dungeon lord and needs to sus out if he's a good person, but he admits that he really wants to be friends with laios too, not just to determine his virtue but to see what value laios sees in monsters. he wants laios to share his interest in people, he wants laios to be interested in him back. kabru never had any true bloodlust or desire to kill laios, he was prepared to go that far if laios wasn't a good person, but once finding out that he has good intentions kabru spends all his energy trying to help laios instead. and when you consider that kabru spent his childhood believing he was half monster because of how he was ostracized in utaya, his curiosity about how laios could possibly love monsters feels so much more personal.

and for laios, he's not used to anyone taking an interest in him. people are constantly telling him he's weird, and the person he believed to be his best friend told him he couldn't stand him. he misses falin so dearly because she thinks he's the coolest man on earth, so meeting someone and being told "I hate monsters but I still want to know YOU" would have an impact on him, I think. in postcanon they become good friends, kabru becomes laios' right hand man to help him with more of the dicey social aspects of being a leader. laios asks him to stay by his side and help him, and kabru says "yeah, that's what I've been doing this whole time"

I wouldn't claim that a romantic relationship between them is CANON, but I wouldn't even say that about farcille either tbh (and I love farcille just as much so don't come for me lol) this isn't a comedy crackship that yaoi fans just made up. laios and kabru are really multi dimensional characters and they're made to reflect eachother in every way, even down to their physical design. so it's not out of nowhere that people ship them

[bloodyshadow1]

look, the thing with Toshiro is that he is not a bad guy, I don't think he would work out with Falin no matter the case, but he's not a bad guy. He is just a guy in a foreign land, and he was sheltered as a rich guys son who has retainers instead of friends, he doesn't know how to act towards people.

He is friends with Laios, yes things in ep 17 came to a boil and Toshiro finally exploded, but that doesn't mean he really hates him. He might not be the best friend Laios imagined him to be, but he doesn't hate the guy despite what he said. Yes, I'm sure he was genuinely bothered by the way Laios acts like the rest of the party, sans Falin, but him exploding at Laios because it's the worst possible time is not the same as him secretly always hating him.

At the time things break bad, had just had a party wipe where not only did they lose to a dragon, the woman he was infatuated with didn't leave with them. He did what he thought was best, get skilled retainers and head back into the dungeon. He has been fighting monsters through the dungeon, not resting, sleeping or eating for days. He finds out the same girl he likes was revived with dark magic, then turned into a Chimera that tears through his retainers, and almost kills them. As he's panicking Laios keeps saying the wrong thing at the wrong time and he finally explodes.

People are not just who they are at their worst moments, just like they're not who they only who they are at the best moments in their life. He's not an asshole for believing Marcille is dangerous because of her using dark magic when he thinks it turned Falin into a chimera and the social norms is dark magic is evil. Especially when Falin became the most powerful monster in the dungeon capable of using magic that slaughtered his retainers and every other adventurer in a few minutes.

*Spoilers for the manga*

When he's had time to think and get some rest and food, Toshiro is on Laios' side, willing to fight elite elven dungeon specialists on his behalf.

Also I know Laios is the fandom's precious little autistic bean, but he isn't guiltless in their relationship. Sure, there was not a malicious bone in Laios' body, but it doesn't change that he saw a foreigner in a bar and blasted him with questions without asking him his name. Yes, Toshiro should have explained, but everyone in the Touden party is neurodivergent, you cannot change my mind. Sometimes it is easier to avoid awkwardness by not correcting people when they get your name wrong. Toshiro didn't think he's be a part of Laios' party for years, he thought it was a meeting with a stranger in a bar, and then he's Shuro for 2 years to everyone in the party and the adventurers community.

People are complicated, and they should be allowed to be. Toshiro might not get a lot of chapters, but it is clear he is not just some asshole who has secretly hated Laios, it's just at the worst moment of his life after a series of terrible weeks things come to a boil. The whole manga/anime has more nuanced characters than any I've read/watched.

[thetransguard]

okay i knew it was coming but its kind of killing me how obtuse people are being towards toshiro (im not fucking calling him shuro and honestly yall should stop with that too). should he have told laios how he really felt about him, sure, yeah, but im going to go off on a limb here and suggest maybe! maybe! he's been raised in an environment where it's actually like legitimately unheard of and taboo to be very open and straight forward about his feelings. the entire party has been calling him by a name that literally isnt even his own because he is so used to quashing down his own reactions to others. like i think other poc diaspora dunmeshi fans might agree with me here but he just reads like someone whos not bothered enough to correct every microaggression thrown his way. because that shit is exhausting. and after like five hours of laios bugging him about stories of his homeland why would he have a good opinion of him. genuinely. im not saying laios is entirely at fault but neither is toshiro. i love laios too but it is Very Weird that toshiro gets the brunt of their friendship's falling out (ill circle back to this)

also to preface this i am a farcille shipper so im. not pushing for falin/toshiro. but people acting like his affection for falin is somehow not relevant or he has no devotion to falin at all is CRAZY. immediately after being teleported out he threw himself back into that dungeon and didnt eat or sleep properly to rescue her. we literally watch him collapse from it. after multiple episodes emphasizing the importance of nutrition and caring for yourself and your take away from a man willing to toss that away is that he just. doesn't care for falin? why is he in the dungeon then? answer. quickly. granted he's not as onboard with the whole black magic thing but his concerns are literally valid and before we see falin chimera he seems to have been talked down from reporting them all for it. its the proof of his concerns of the use of black magic that he decides to go up and report them at all. his bond with falin isn't nearly as strong as marcille's bond but its also not nothing. ignoring that or minimising his own sacrifices is such a nasty bad faith disservice to his character.

speaking of bonds. toshiro doesn't hate laios. guys. his last act this episode was to give laios and the rest of the party (yes, even black magic user marcille) a way out of the hole that they'd already dug for themselves. fleeing to the east and leaving falin to the elves isnt the best case scenario but it is one that lets the majority of the party survive whatever's coming. its the realistic play. is this the act of a man who hates his former colleagues? is he wishing harm and further misfortune on them? his actions speak for themselves. you guys are being way too hard on toshiro and its really fucking telling. this goes for white viewers especially

[kotoku]

the touden party with a teen! reader

content - family dynamic / found family / nothing but platonic fluff! / a sprinkle of angst?

pairings - laios touden & reader / chilchuck tims & reader / marcille donato & reader / senshi & reader / izutsumi & reader

warnings - none!

disclaimer - some short headcanons just to get back into the swing of things :)

word count - 1k

✤✤✤✤

✢ Laios would honestly adopt you as his little sibling, treating you akin to Falin (protecting you, rambling to you, doting on you…)

✢ After the party loses Falin, he’d grow very protective of you– not wanting to lose you like his sister

✢ Laios can be a bit dense when it comes to the wonders of puberty/adolescence (it’s been a bit), so he just needs a little time to understand and find a way to support you

✢ I feel that Laios would start to become so protective of you that you might get into a small argument, he’s just worried though! (how could he not?)

✢ However, after watching you fight tooth and nail in the dungeon and talking with him (courtesy of Senshi, Marcille, and Chilchuck bringing you two togther), he’d let up and not worry as much

✢ Laios would ramble about monster facts, formulate new potential recipes, and complain about Marcille’s teachings to you

✢ You’d also help Laios with understanding people better, or at the very least, reading the room (nudging him into the right approach when needed)

✢ All in all, a very supportive relationship!

✤✤✤✤

✢ Great, another brat for him to take care of sigh 

✢ Regardless, Chilchuck still watches over you from afar, even if he doesn’t want to admit it

✢ He deosn’t want to show his worry or concern for your wellbeing, so if you do something risky or dangerous, half of him wants to help and scold you while the other half stays quiet with restrained fear (even if you’re twice his size)

✢ At some point, this facade cracks and he ends up dumping all of his feelings into the open– about how he thinks you should leave the party and find yourself a stable job uptop, ect…

✢ Chilchuck, just as he is with his daughters, takes care of you in his own ways 

✢ He’s almost like a stern father, lecturing you about safety and interpersonal relationships within a party

✢ You just roll your eyes and go along with, knowing he means well and wants the best for you

✢ I feel that he’d be protective but not as protective as Laios and Marcille, he knows when to give you space

✢ Although Chilchuck rarely says it, he does care about you very much and there is a gnawing fear that you’ll be heavily injured (or killed) while venturing with them into the dungeon 

✤✤✤✤

✢ Ahh Marcille.. where to begin?

✢ She’d take care of you as if you’re her sibling– gushing and fretting over you

✢ Like she does to Izutsumi, she’d help brush and style your hair, find new clothes that are a perfect match to you, and make sure you’re properly cared for

✢ Like Laios, she’d be super worried about you while venturing into the dungeon

✢ She has her healing magic/spells ready in case you get injured or bruised

✢ With you being a tall-man, Marcille can’t help but feel sad (and the creeping existential crisis) as she watches you grow throughout the journey

✢ However, sometimes it feels as if Marcille is the youngest of the two of you here, whining about how “gross” the recipes are and such

✢ Just as she does for you, you’d help take care of her as well, brushing her hair when she’s tired, feeding her spoonfulls of any dish Senshi makes, and tucking her into bed

✢ Despite Marcille’s clumsiness and quirky behaviors, you still care for her very much! (even if you don’t want to admit it)

✤✤✤✤

✢ He’d call you kid, youngin’, etc… no lie

✢ Senshi is pretty lenient with you but he knows when its time to step in to prevent you from doing anything rash

✢ Just as he does with everyone, he’d make sure you’re fed the necessary nutrients a teen like you needs for growing

✢ If you aren’t a fan of vegetables or fruits, he’d try to come up with a recipe that masks the taste

✢ The way you and Senshi spend time is by cooking together; he’d guide you every step of the way when it comes to harvesting ingredients, prepping them, and then cooking

✢ When you take it upon yourself to cook a dish using ingredients from the dungeon, he’d be very proud!

✢ That said, he’d also teach you the ways of the dungeon and how to preserve certain elements of it to maintain harmony

✢ Senshi is almost like a wise old grandpa to you!

✤✤✤✤

✢ It takes a while for her to come around as her upbringing was very different from yours

✢ You are likely helping her with her hygiene and health since she is unable to properly care for herself or eat her vegetables

✢ Considering the two of you are closer in age, I feel that Izutsumi would eventually find some similarities with you and confide in you about certain things

✢ Eventually, she’d grow comfortable and would tease or bicker with you a bit, getting into harmless fights and challenges (who can hunt down the most monsters, eat the most meat, etc…)

✢ You guys are basically siblings!!

𝙗𝙤𝙣𝙪𝙨!!

✤✤✤✤

✢ Again, like Laios and Marcile, she’d treat you as if you’re her younger sibling

✢ She’s not as protective as Laios and Marcille, but she still frets over you after confrontations in the dungeon

✢ Falin would enjoy helping you with any issues or concerns that come with growing up, considering you’re both tall-men and she has been through the changes that come with adolescence and early (early) adulthood

✢ Falin would enjoy gossiping with you from time to time, or just simply chatting with you during night watches and such

✢ If you’re having trouble sleeping, she’d help lull you to sleep through stories or humming tunes from her hometown

✢ Her presence is very comforting and you can always rely on her for support and respite

[quitealotofsodapop]

Genderbending Laios:

Laios has that energy of; if he ever got genderbent in-canon, his overwhelming reaction would be "Oh! Cool!" followed by "Oh wait! Maybe I can be better friends with Shuro now!" :D

Reasons it happens:

Different variant of Changeling Mushrooms that changes the physical sex of the afflicted rather than the race.

Variant of Shapeshifter that affects a target rather than itself.

Cursed by an artifact made by a misogynist.

Cursed by an artifact made by a girlboss.

Got too curious observing a goddess/entity and got the Siproites treatment.

Accidentally killed a pair of mating monsters and got the Tiresias treatment.

Ate/Drank something they really shouldn't have.

Marcille really f-d up a spell.

Laios really f-d up a spell.

Deal with the Winged Lion went kinda weird.

Thistle did it.

Party Reactions:

Marcille is most horrified cus girl Laios be a terror to keep out of trouble + unsettling resemblance to Falin.

Chilchuck be fighting demons rn; Laios is now a tall, blonde, big thiddy'd woman with no sense of personal space. He is a separated married halffoot damn it! Also, as a dad of three daughters, he's the only one who's prepared to give awkward growing-up conversations fem!Laios should be getting!

Chilchuck: "Laios, that's not how you use a sanitary belt." Fem!Laios, wearing it outside of her pants: "Eh?"

Shuro also fighting demons rn! His potential love interest's annoying older brother is now an annoying older sister who's fixated on becoming closer to him! Also him realising that what attracted him to Falin in the first place is also present in Laios.

Kabru even more intrigued if thats even possible. Meeting a woman who claims to have lived as man - not so strange if Kabru is FTM, but its still a pleasant surprise!

Namari: "When did this happen?" Laios: "Not too long ago." Namari: "Congrats, I guess?" Laios: "Thanks!"

Senshi just hums and says "You need to eat more pickled vegetables. The salts are important for growing women."

Izutsumi is Izutsumi. Lady Laios's bed be warm even tho she pets her a lot. Mom shaped.

Laios' Reaction

That feel when you accidentally crack your own transfem egg with magic.

Something-something; "Women be considered less human in a patriarchal system" so Laios is pretty chill with the situation, albeit is disappointed she doesn't have any cool fangs or multiple heads.

She 100% tries to communicate with the women-shaped monsters, thinking there's now a new common ground. She nearly gets mobbed by harpies before the rest of the party can intervene.

The party have to constantly remind fem!Laios that she has to keep a shirt on around company (which she thinks is dumb) and to be careful when asking men extremely personal questions ("Why?" "They think you're flirting with them." "I can?" "NO!").

Wasn't told how periods or feminine hygiene stuff worked cus it was considered "obscene" for boys to know that stuff in their village. Laios thought she was dying the first time she got her period. Was annoyed/fascinated when Chilchuck managed to explain that it was a natural process.

Laios: "And this happens every month?" Chilchuck, flustered & annoyed: "Yes, if you're healthy." Laios: "When does it stop?" Chilchuck: "A few days at most." Laios: "No, I mean the whole monthly process." Chilchuck: "Uhh... no idea. Think it's different for Halffoots, but normally it sorta just stops when you're a lot older." Laios, pondering face: "Hmm. I must ask any older women we come across in future. I would not like to experience this when I'm old and creaky. Then again... maybe this it why women are more predisposed to using blood magic." Marcille, overhearing: "What does THAT mean!?"

Laios proceeds to bluntly ask Mrs Floke very impersonal questions when their parties overlap. Mr Floke chokes on his tea as the twins snicker at his flustered face. Mrs Floke just laughs, it's not her first time explaining budding womanhood to a young tallman.

Laios takes the opportunity in the Golden Country to wear the fancy dresses with Marcille. Doesn't like them too much tho - prefers plain airy dresses.

I just love girl Laios guys

[tanoraqui]

Dungeon Meshi Liveblog: Kill a Dragon, Rez a Falin

I just like when they're friends like this :)

This, too, is taken from another post, but truly this dynamic is sooo funny of

Chilchuck: I am not a fighter!

Chilchuck, any time he has any sort of ranged weapon: [aims with pinpoint accuracy]

.

This is just literally that moment in every Miraculous Ladybug episode where everything goes gray and the things Marinette is about to use for a Plan "light up" one by one in red with black spots. Please someone draw fanart of this. And maybe an entire Miraculous Ladybug AU. Yes I think Kabru would have to be Chat Noir - in terms of deuteragonist-ness is SHOULD be Marcille, but she and Laios just doesn't have enough of a bizarre push and pull Dynamic. We need real character foils to pull off that relationship square.

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Raw fucking dialogue.

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THE PERIODIC ADS ON THIS SITE FOR PRINTING OR CLOTHING OR SHOES REALLY ADD TO THE EXPERIENCE.

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Agh agh agh, looking at this, thinking about Namari's explanation of how much body mass you can lose before resurrection gets harder...

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Carving this tunnel into the dragon and physically walking in emphasizes how big it was much more than anything we saw while it was alive, and it's sooo cool.

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This ad was a great millisecond of cliffhanger, unironically.

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These opening pages of the next chapter are so devastating. After all the movement of the fight, this simple layout and minimal dialogue make the grief and horror and just emptiness, emptiness where Falin should be, where hope for Falin should be, ring like a low and broken bell. Driven in just a little deeper by Laios admitting he doesn't know a monsters fact (warg bones vs human bones) - there is helplessness, too. He's just doing the only thing he can, which is so little, in all this terrible caesura.

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And then this! Marcille and Laois don't have the messy meatiness of relationship to carry and Miraculous Ladybug love square, but they are JOINTLY the parallel to the Mad Mage, and that's fascinating. They're on the same page here: Laios's "No" isn't just the denial of grief, it's a flat "That's not what we'll do." This is Laios - of course he's already thinking about how the red dragon is perfectly functional meat. As is Marcille, at last 100% in-step with him re: monsters = meat, here in the final steps to save Falin. With magic and drive and an absolute determination to save Falin, they're going to walk hand in hand into the darkness, and if something in their devours them (or their party, or the surface world...) - well, it'll have to beat them first, because throughout this world it's eat or be eaten, and those who want it most, win.

(And it IS fascinating that they do this while, so far as I've seen, basically remaining at the relationship tier of "good friends/in-laws." This isn't Found Family, it's Found Really Good Co-Workers; and I LOVE that.)

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THE PARALLEL COMPOSITION AND DIALOGUE TO THE ABOVE SCREENSHOT WHEN LAIOS WENT TO KILL THE DRAGON THOUGH!! I'M FERAL!!!

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Obsessed with the decision to frame this as a monster meal.

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Blood! In! Hair! Blood! In! Hair! Man, when I saw that post saying this wished this show was in the show, I vaguely assumed her hair had gotten messed up in the fight but she didn't bother to fix it for the ritual; but in fact her hair was braided literally 1 panel ago - she undid that and DELIBERATELY (or at least uncaringly) ran her bloody hand through it.

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YOU WISH YOUR GIRLFRIEND WAS AS COOL AS THIS PANEL! Oh fuck yeah, eyes went white. That's when you know the magic is awesome.

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HUNGER AND EATING AS A SIGN, SYMPTOM, STIPULATION AND SYNECDOCHE OF BEING ALIVE!!!

Alas, but with good okay slightly postponed and belated timing I must now go to bed.

[laikabu]

I think what fundamentally tips me off abt the shuro discourses is that there's this common sentiment of "marcille should get pissed and chew shuro out for "chasing" falin/being mean to laios, give shuro what he deserves" which is just hilariously transparent on how self-righteous and projecting the ppl saying these things are bc it is so clearly not actually abt what falin and laios want. Yknow, a big theme in dunmeshi! I'd forgive ppl for not knowing abt the extra, but falin outright says she needs to make decisions and take stands for HERSELF and she amicably turns shuro's proposal down, which he accepts. She's not being preyed on or being taken advantage of and so she doesn't need some defense against what is very much an imaginary offense to make shuro look bad. And laios does the same! Laios beats shuro up and they come out with their grievances on the table and all honesty there, and they are explicitly on good terms by the end! The siblings clearly like him and see value in their relationships with him despite any conflict they had. That literally should be the end of it.

(Also, not a fan abt the way white fans want to write off the micro aggressions and "forgive" laios for something they have no room saying anything abt! Acting like it's impossible for him to be racist when there's a bonus comic of him (and falin) outright talking abt "savage" people on his hometown's mountains that were "barbarians" they killed onsight! Given this manga's emphasis on cultural disconnect you'd think we'd be smarter abt this!)

exactly LOL throughout the whole manga the touden siblings treated shuro with kindness and respect even after the big fight, so i'm really confused about the hostility towards him?💀

i noticed that in the anime, kabru doesn't actually give his name out at all, and all instances of laios saying kabru's name correctly were scrubbed, so i'm curious if this has anything to do with changing the "kapru" joke somehow since they did consult kui in changing small scenes. i guess we'll find out tomorrow.

[felixcloud6288]

Dungeon Meshi Chapter 84

I really respect Kui's commitment to the bit. It's the end of the world and everyone is armed with cooking utensils.

The Canaries got wiped and Lycion is about to be killed, but he's saved by a strange group of walking mushrooms.

This one is noticeably thicker than normal.

This was totally Laios's idea. No one else would think of doing this. And of course Izutsumi refused to wear a disguise. She was probably complaining the entire time that this wouldn't work and at this point, she's probably thinking "How did that work?"

Izutsumi's scarf isn't tied into a bow anymore.

Marcille is not very observant. At least the monsters noticed the odd figures in their ranks.

This reminds me of a scene from Doctor Who. The Master turned all of humanity into clones of himself and the doctor managed to sneak past the Master's security by wearing a face-covering guard uniform. The Doctor points out that it only worked because the Master and his clones were too stupid to notice one of the guards, who all look the same, was taller than everyone else.

Where is Laios's armor? Was it too stinky to wear?

Reminder that Shuro FUCKING ABANDONED IZUTSUMI TO DIE.

Laios is always the last one to realize things.

I had to double-check to make sure Kabru did actually tell Laios about the demons in chapter 76. He managed to say that the dungeons trap demons but Laios wasn't really paying attention. Lycion had just revealed that Kabru didn't like eating monsters so Laios was trying to get away from Kabru because he felt awkward about misunderstanding someone's feelings again. He only listened to Kabru when Kabru said he wanted to be Laios's friend and punched him in the face.

Once again, Lycion feels like he fits perfectly with the main crew. Mithrun is the "major character" in the Canaries, but Lycion has had the most casual interactions with everyone. At this point, he probably realized that Laios is just a harmless weirdo.

This looks like something I'd expect Laios to draw.

Laios is an unconventional thinker and he doesn't dwell on all the details when deciding what to do. At this moment where he doesn't know what to do and there's so much to consider and realize, Namari decided the best thing to do was snap him out of it and tell him to do whatever comes to mind. It's what has gotten him this far.

I think this could work if they could get past the lion. But since the demons slowly eat and alter their lord's desires, they probably programs a failsafe that causes the dungeon lord to actively try to restore their lordship if it should be taken from them.

When you think big, powerful monsters, you think of dragons. And when Marcille thinks of dragons, she thinks of the monster that nearly killed them all, ate Falin, and that they started this entire journey hunting.

The orcs are able to bring their wargs into this battle. I guess wargs aren't proper dungeon monsters.

Looks like one of the dragons didn't have waterwalk applied to it.

Oh yeah. I forgot the lion modified Kensuke so it could act through it.

So the lion wants to swallow the world into itself and trap everyone in a lotus-eater scenario to feed on their desires forever. I can understand why Marcille's wish helps it out, but why does it want Laios to become a lord? His wishes and desires feel hyper counter-productive the the lion's goals.

The lion's mane looks like Kensuke's appendages. Maybe the lion controlling Kensuke is supposed to evoke an appearance of getting tangled in the lion's mane?

Cheesecake is Laios's favorite food!? I couldn't find any moments of him eating it.

Chilchuck's favorite food is a type of beer. I think he's having some in the chapter 27 title image.

Senshi's favorite is hippogriff soup. He spent decades trying to recreate it and it's tied to his best and worst memories.

No wonder Izutsumi ate that barometz so ravenously. It tasted like her favorite food.

That's Laios's parents.

I wanted to say this is Chilchuck and his wife, but the face doesn't quite match. The ears are too small.

So that's what happened to Yaad.

I think the lion also misunderstands how Laios thinks. Yes, Laios likes to sympathize and understand the inhuman, but I'm going to give him more credit that he understands why siding with the lion is a bad thing.

The lion's desire sounds like the antithesis of what Senshi has frequently told the party about not taking more than you need. The lion wants to eat and eat and eat until there's nothing left.

Kabru doesn't have much high ground to stand on when talking about con-men. Kabru's been lying to pretty much everyone this entire story. I don't think he's being honest here either. He's just saying what he hopes will convince Laios to not side with the lion.

I love when everyone puts aside their differences to work together. Special shoutout to Doni and Fionil joining the cause. Those two have a lot of courage.

Lycion isn't the only beastman in the Canaries ranks. And it looks like the familiar conjurors were healed.

Those newbie Canaries are also going to join in...eventually. They're too nervous to just jump into the fight, especially since someone faceplanted in front of them when they jumped down. Looks like the one who was part of the Familiar squad isn't here though.

The dungeon responds to desires and in chapter 45, Kabru said the dungeon was going through a growth spurt and needed nourishment. He warned that relying on numbers would create another Utaya.

Even if they didn't want to, the lion has forced everyone to fight to push back its forces. And this is creating a feedback loop where the more they push back, the more the lion is able to summon stronger forces.

Namari is such a jobber. She always seems to get herself into danger.

Go Doni! Show those mushrooms who's boss!

I mentioned in chapter 24 how the red dragon closed its mouth to stop itself from breathing fire. The dragon about to attack Kabru hadn't opened its mouth yet so it didn't need to smother any imminent flames.

In an alternate timeline where the lion wasn't a sinister being, this would be the triumphant moment where we know the true king has arrived to save the world. Whoever defeated the magician inherits the kingdom, so Laios has earned the right to be king and this is the first moment he walks as if he were one.

In an alternate timeline, Laios would have gained the power to become a king of not just men but monsters as well. This story would end with him bringing the monsters under his control and having them fight alongside mankind against some great threat. And then he'd establish his kingdom where all are equal and humans and monsters live in peace.

But that is not this timeline, and that is not what this scene is. The lion is dangling Laios's desires in front of him as it invites him in.

Really guys?

back

[nevertheless-moving]

binged dungeon meshi anime + manga after numerous tumblr posts and leg injury. thoughts based on fandom > manga> anime ride:

[SPOILERS FOR MANGA]

senshi pantyshot fanservice much appreciated but... should really be more lingering and inexplicably glistening if its gonna match up to fanservice in other animes

no yeah TOTALLY get why toshiro just said fuck it and went home after... all that. days of no food. blase dark magic/you were too late reveal. long repressed slapfight that he probably felt equally guilty and angry about. girl he loved appeared as GIANT MONSTER and BRUTALLY killed HIS FAMILY.

girl he loved STOPPED TO PULL HER TITS OUT midway through BRUTALLY KILLING HIS FAMILY.

i'd go home too

also , Maricelle, all the love in the world, but i get why everyone was mad about the dark magic. i mean it looked bad. WE know that thistle interfered but the situation looked BAD ngl maricelle i would not want you healing me either after falin appearance.

feel like changeling maricelle should have been half half-foot/half-dwarf or something like that. would have been fun half-elf reveal to party. actually bothers me that she wasn't? the more i think about it. i mean itzumi was still cat/kobold.

incredibly belated but looking back at changeling episode...is senshi shirtless the whole time???

okay nevermind did some extensive research and i'm fairly sure he wasn't

also thinking back about senshi — he absolutely knew what he was doing with setting off the traps and pissing chilchuck off...my man was living here for decades.

kabru/laois is both more and less textually present than i would have thought based on fandom.

like on one hand they barely interact. on the other hand they barely interact and Kabru is VERY much obsessed . they have ONE (1) conversation. much hilarity has been observed about that dialogue so i digress

and there is ZERO new information between that interaction and kabru planning on putting the man on a THRONE. at some unclear point his career goal becomes having his lips at this man's ear and a dagger at his neck ???

i cannot stress this enough: he invests SO EARLY in king Laios. willing to sacrifice his life for this to be realized. goal oriented. unhinged. good for him.

you could say it's just him being practical and choosing the best option based on available information but incredibly relevant new information becomes available and Kabru is STILL locked in

i'm crying over kabru 'compressing' mithran's backstory. sure as a meta framing device fine. but in universe? BONKERS. narrative critiquing clinically depressed man's tragic backstory. Super normal move.

so much nuance and different perspectives on fantasy interracial marriages and adoptions and its SO SO GOOD.

gnawing on the walls kinda worldbuilding seriously

so thistle was a teenager when this all started. that's what i'm getting. that's... man there's a lot of layers of tragedy.

wait so if elves and half-foots look ambiguously young do tallmen look ambiguously old?? wrinkly gangly old old wrinkly fuckers??? or burning the candle at both ends terrible looking tall child???

hey i'm starting to think that the monster who controls all monsters... might not be a good guy

'Delgal' holding thistle at the end ... i'm not crying. you're crying.

impossible to say if laois won the final battle on purpose or not

genuinely no idea

11/10 no notes about that fact

[prismatoxic]

cause I need to hear more of your sweet thoughts bout those two freaks, favorite laichil moments that have been stewing in the back of the mind?

oh gosh ummmmm

well now that episode 11 is out i am so very deeply fond of laios's visual pan from kensuke to chilchuck's dawning, rage-filled horror at what's happened

i think the swearing was better in the manga--not because the anime let him say actual words (bc i think that's awesome) but bc in the manga i thought they were still running while chilchuck was doing this. good visual

OF COURSE THE BEST EPISODE 11 CHILAIOS MOMENT... TO ME... is when chilchuck tells laios they're going to have a Talk later

the dub delivery kind of disappointed me (as it always does) BUT IN THE SUB the way laios immediately agrees is so very much, to me, a "yes sir" moment. and if you read my fic you know i'm very into this

i have a lot of little canon moments that i'm super fond of and am very excited to see in the anime... my faves are often when chilchuck is being a hostile little goblin but i'm so fucking excited about what i assume will be episode 13. you know. because

um

okay i have a lot of thoughts actually (MANGA SPOILERS I'M SERIOUS)

so. chapter 30.

chilchuck goes to get the party's supplies from where they were abandoned in the house they had dinner with falin at, having his own character arc along the way. we have seen him try to convince both leed and senshi that the smartest thing to do will be to lie to laios and marcille so they can return to the surface. trying to continue in this state will kill them, but neither of them will rest if they think they can still find falin. neither senshi nor leed agree with chilchuck's plan, and leed insinuates he's a coward. chilchuck stays firm. even after he's clearly pushed off kilter by leed saying he should just tell the truth, we don't have any concrete reason to think he will.

then they return and senshi is struggling to keep a now-awake laios down. laios is wounded and weak and senshi is a dwarf but laios is so deeply, fervently determined to get falin back that he's very hard to stop.

chilchuck, by contrast, is not strong at all, but somehow his added presence gets laios to sit back down. chilchuck rests a hand on laios's shoulder and even before he says anything, laios is looking at him. he knows something is coming. i think he resents chilchuck for it, too--the implication that there's anything to be said here.

we don't know at this point what chilchuck intends to say. senshi still thinks he wants to lie and intends to stop him, but i think it's clear in this moment that chilchuck has changed his mind.

he kneels--proud, all-too-aware of "how his people are treated for their size" chilchuck kneels between laios's legs. and i'm not pointing this out for horny reasons, for once.

he's bringing himself closer to laios--assuming a position associated with pleading and willingly making himself not the authority in this interaction. he believes, wholeheartedly, in what he wants to do and what needs to be said, but...

he also knows laios is hurting.

laios is... devastated. he's terrified. he's angry. but he's also still laios, and he knows chilchuck, insofar as chilchuck has allowed him to. he also respects chilchuck. so this--a teary-eyed plea to do what goes against everything he feels--gives him pause. chilchuck does not beg, and he does not cry.

...and he never talks about how he feels.

but he does, here: he doesn't want to lose his friends. and he does mean all of them, senshi included. he has three people to think of--three people whose lives he cannot in good conscience allow to be put at risk any more than they already have been. even so, he acknowledges that however laios feels about falin is probably incomparable.

but he tries to give laios hope--he gives him a plan of action. he says we will come back. he tries to impress upon laios that this isn't defeat and it isn't surrender, it's being safe. it's giving themselves an actual fighting chance at getting falin back.

laios doesn't want to... but he also doesn't say that. all the things he's feeling haven't gone away, but he's also aware of just how big this situation is if chilchuck opened himself up this way. chilchuck does not and never has done this. up until the fight with the red dragon, you could be forgiven for assuming chilchuck is just a contracted coworker who's a little fond of the party and nothing more.

senshi and leed, the only people who knew chilchuck's plan to lie to the others, don't openly acknowledge his change of heart... but they back him up. they pitch in to push laios just a little further, to get him to agree.

and it works.

so. um. episode 13 will be good i think

[unkat]

chilaios medical au idea i have been bouncing in my head (will not be written until after my current one is done)

i am thinking of a like firefighter/paramedic story for these guys. where laios is a new shift commander/chief at a small middle of nowhere station and chilchuck is a medic from a big city who keeps getting reassigned because he is trying to recruit for a union and the company is trying to make his job unworkable/find a reason to let him go.

laios was promoted because of his work ethic and ability to teach other people about the ins and outs of emergency medicine, not because he wanted to be in charge. he is too new and disinterested in the company politics to throw him under the bus for other people, and by the time someone explicitly says he needs to fire him, he has gotten attached.

"he's reliable, does good work, and catches things nobody else here would have. i know he cussed out the family trying to get into the rig, but he had already told them no and they should be grateful he saved their daughter instead of filing a complaint! even if i were to discipline, he deserves a verbal warning and not dismissal. You were not there, and i am his direct superior."

(wins the argument and walks away trying not to hyperventilate)

also falin is a surgeon and marcille is a research fellow who abandoned her big-city super-focused projects to come out into the country and work with subpar equipment and an incompetent assistant. im not thinking like full rural hospital here, but closeish to it. could be an academic satellite hospital and she switched from like gene therapy trials to studying exposures/population/histology stuff.

shifting the touden hyperfixation from monsters->medical fascination i think would still get across the same vibes. falin is very nice and pleasant but she treats everyone nicely and pleasantly without actually empathizing with them. shes one of those surgeons who went to shadow a heart transplant in college and cried because it was so beautiful and then got a bunch of scholarships plus student loans for med school.

laios hunts and has a big appreciation for the lives of things he kills and butchering/using everything he can. then it translates to him being fascinated by the human body as an object more than as a being that is different and special from other animals that he is a part of. he is a fantastic emergency responder because of this- people are a pile of flesh that is broken somewhere, and he wants to figure out why. (this is something that I'm like. not sure if it is okay for me to include because it can be squicky/triggering. but i feel like when I'm unsure if I'm going too far that is when i am reaching the line i want to?)

the touden siblings still go hiking and mudding and spend their time off in the woods (marcille wears white shorts and sandels on a hike leaving laios to be very explicit and offering clothes to chilchuck when he offers him to join. chilchuck borrows his shirt and it is way too big, but he keeps it for a while.)

chilchuck is extra divorced. he facetimes with the girls a couple of times a week and gets them on rotating holidays. sometimes ex-mrs. tims invites him over for dinner because she feels sorry for him and her new boyfriend is also there. it's awkward but they both know he's harmless, just annoying and closed off. he smokes but has tried to quit 7-8 times. started when he was an emt and couldn't shake it because it helped him destress. he only knows how to drive well enough to pass his vehicle license renewals and still doesn't know what the buttons in his car do. the ac has been "broken" for a week before a station mechanic pushes the button to turn it back on (they should put a subway around here, stupid cars).

laios respects his experience and history of being at a constantly busy station that saw a variety of crazy shit. chilchuck initially resents him for being so out of touch, but grows to respect his leadership abilities. laios also always follows up on cases at the hospital to figure out the outcome and reflect on best practices.

he is the first person to get chilchuck to actually debrief after a shitty call and chil cries and never wants to talk about it again. but its like a seal in a dam has been breached, and opens up when they are cuddling on the couch. they spend more time off shift with each other. chilchuck crashes on laios' couch and initially feels like he needs excuses to do it until laios says he really likes talking with him and having him there. he tells him about the company's EAP coverage and that he encourages everyone to take advantage of it.

in the end, they hit that threshold of basically living together, and one of them would need to change their station (superior/employee romance) after they go from making out off shift in secret to seriously considering having laios meet his daughters in person. (they already think they're married because laios is always there when they call now)

[lostlegendaerie]

The Laiostle (Laios/Thistle) Manifesto

[DISCLAIMER: don't take this too seriously. it's a cartoon and I'm just here to have fun.]

So, I have a problem. I'm a bit of what I call a "superglue shipper" where once I see chemistry (or the potential to have chemistry) between two characters, BAM. It's a ship. And just about nothing can convince me to shop shipping them. (If I had been a teenager when the original Star Wars trilogy came out, it would have broken me) Therefore! While I politely acknowledge to the court that Laios/Kabru seems delightful and much more likely, Thistle made eye contact with Laios first, therefore I am slowly being boiled alive in Rarepair Hell.

But hey! You're here to hear about why I stay in this torment nexus, so let's break down why I think Thistle and Laios would make a fascinating and charming couple. ANIME SPOILERS FOLLOW, and vague references to the manga as well.

Laios' interest in Thistle

One of Laios' most significant character traits are 1) his willingness to believe in the best in people/creatures and 2) his adoration for monsters. Even when Thistle turns Falin into the red dragon chimera, Laios isn't dead-set on killing him; instead, he fantasizes about talking to The Mad Mage and getting him to realize the error of his ways and return his sister to what she was before. (I've seen some manga leaks so I know roughly the effectiveness of that attempt as well)

Unlike many adventurers who came before him, Laios really isn't interested in overthrowing or harming the Lord of the Dungeon, or in treasure for treasure's sake. In a scenario where things turn out how Laios wants them to, he could very well have befriended Thistle by bonding with him over the very monsters that Thistle manages within the dungeon. Thistle may not enjoy them in the same way that Laios does, but it is damn near inherent to all sentient beings that we like to show off what we're good at with people and share our knowledge with them. Thistle could not ask for a more rapt audience than Laios when talking about cultivating his dungeon's ecosystem.

Thistle's interest in Laios

This section is a little heavier and subjective compared to the above one, and since this is the "piss on the poor" website I'm gonna state what should be incredibly obvious as bluntly as possible: just because I find it interesting, believable or even relatable, does not mean I endorse what happened to Thistle to make him this way.

Thistle appears to have been raised by Tallmen for his entire life as an orphan of some kind, and he was extremely attached to Freinag and his son Delgal to the point of learning very dangerous magic to protect the kingdom. After Delgal's disappearance (and other manga-specific events) his mental health takes a significant dive, and he becomes a threat of sorts to the people of the Golden Kingdom. The adventurers invading his territory would almost all be very willing to kill him to usurp his power, and even if he were to somehow leave and be reunited with other elves, I doubt he would be able to integrate into their society or ever feel like he truly belonged with them.

So if a Tallman arrived and showed him kindness, interest and genuine compassion... it's very reasonable to assume that a Thistle who wasn't suffering under the effects of being the Lord of the Dungeon (the influence of [redacted for Manga spoilers] for one) would be intrigued by him. Not to mention Laios' "destiny" of becoming the new King... and all the other aspects of the nature of the dungeon that's revealed in the manga. (At least from what I've been able to understand from out of context manga panels and wikia articles)

Intersection with Favorite Tropes

Laiostle ticks a lot of boxes for me: big soft golden retriever type + angry hissing cat type, size difference, "you remind me of someone I once knew/loves" and some of the messiness that comes with that (Thistle's relationship or feelings towards Delgal is, in the anime at least, clearly a loving one while open to interpretation on 'what kind of love'), characters who cross moral boundaries to try to save someone they love, to name a few. I am aware of Thistle's eventual ambiguous fate and would love to imagine a post-canon slow-burn between these two. Man, what a shame I'm not a writer or something. (Kicks AO3 account with over a million words written under the rug)

Anyway! Thanks to anyone who read this whole thing! Would LOVE to see truly any content for them in the tags, I am. Truly starving over here. If you don't agree with me or dislike my points, that's totally fine~

[lyscot-blog]

Chilchuck is a tsundere dad,

and why did he stick with Laios?

SPOILERS FOR CHAPTER 30/48/56/ADVENTURE'S BIBLE ONWARDS.

Chilchuck Tims is a rogue. A bitter old rogue. But I guess it's more accurate to call him a professional adventurer. That's probably what people want to see him as. He's very pragmatic and realistic but sarcastic and prideful. The man is on the verge of retiring with a few things to his name. He founded a halfling union and is respected in his community as *the* guy that can go deeper down the dungeon. Chil gave his life for dungeoneering, he knows the politics and the dirty side of his job. Some people can see him as an insurance in their team. Because he has the skills and brains to keep you safe, go deeper and that you are paid well.

But why the hell did Chilchuck agreed to join on Laios' suicide mission?

Think about it.

Half of Laios' team are either dead or left the group, the remaining is a weird oddball of a leader and the other is a mess of an elf that doesn't really see you as an adult. They both can be reckless and can definitely get themselves killed. The group is also low on supplies and desperate for food. So there's that.

Although he may criticize the group, he is close to one member, Namari. He knows her situation and they share the same pragmatic view and drinks together. So why didn’t he follow in Namari's footsteps.

But yes in chapter 30 we actually got to know that Chilchuck actually cares about the group underneath his cynicism and sarcasm. Because unlike his optimistic and outlandish companions, he is the straight man.

But think again and I know he cares. But if he actually cared, he would not let Laios and Marcille to even set foot in the dungeon to their death. Remember he agreed to these deadly conditions before meeting Senshi. Deadly conditions that a seasoned adventurer like himself should already know. But he accepted it and was calmer about it as well.

So, does he trust the group? Does he not trust the group? Should he trust Laios?

Lets look at Chilchuck's most polarizing topic, group relations.

Despite Chil's critical nature, I think in my opinion Chilchuck respects and recognize everyone's strengths and weaknesses. But because he knows people's qualities, he likes to point them out and berate them from making further mistakes. He's harsh, but he wants to keep everyone alive. So that's why I think he sometimes see Laios and Marcille as immature or irresponsible at time. In turn, I think he sees himself as the most capable/reliable person in the group. With good reasons of course.

He knows how close Falin is to everybody, he will surely keep note of it. So when Laios and Marcille are automatically ready to save Falin despite deadly odds, I don't think he's surprised, he's sure they will die for Falin and no one will be there to revive them. But I don't think Chilchuck wants to see the remaining member go to their deaths and as the person that's supposed to keep everyone alive, he must have some guilt. After all, in some ways, he still cares for his own family, so he might understand Laios. But because of how reckless Laios is and how stubborn Marcille can be, I don't think he can stop them from going further. He'll help and he'll just ride along with these insane people.

Abit related. Isn't this against his halfling union's objective. Using a highly skilled halfling to their advantage on minimal pay to go on a deadly adventure. Surely this breaks his own code, right? But he does it anyways.

Despite not liking interpersonal group conflict and being as professional as possible. There's a point in time that Chilchuck actually got attached to them, to the point where he will break his own code. Whether he likes it or not. I think that he thinks that without him, the group and/or the rescue will break apart quickly and he really does not want his group to break.

Chilchuck is not tragic (compared to others), he has a relatively normal life but definitely unfortunate. Unlike the rest, his loss at most is his wife leaving him. The loss of a love fleeing you for a reason you do not know, the fear of chasing is evident. He also keeps in touch with his daughters as well. He cares but I guess prefers an independent approach.

I did notice the way he describe his daughters is similar to how he sees the others. He describe his daughters weakness, interest and strengths. He's perceptive not just with his senses, but others as well. Like how he knew that Laios have always wanted to try eating monsters and how peculiar Senshi is. He has to know people to keep them safe of course, that's how he shows that he cares.

To dive deeper, the way he cares is different from others. Senshi takes on the more nurturing approach, he sees the others as younglings that needs to feed and take care of, to protect them is his responsibility. Chilchuck is different, although he is similar. He makes sure that they are safe and criticize their bad behavior, but he respects their privacy and freedom. He criticize Laios, but for the majority, he lets Laios leads. Because unlike Senshi, he actually has kids, he has 3 adult kids. He expects better and for them to behave up to his expectations, as proper adults.

The relationship between Chilchuck and Laios is interesting. Chilchuck knows Laios' objective and he knows he can't stop it. But he also knows that Laios can be reckless and unconventional. However, he also knows Laios can be experimental and creative, but this too can blow up on his face. So to make sure that everyone (including Laios) do not explode, he has to be there. But he knows it has to be Laios to hold the torch and lead it himself, Chilchuck just has to guide and help him sometimes. Also I think Chil is a tsundere and actually likes Laios.

Chilchuck Tims has a pride bigger than himself. He'll stick by you because he likes you even if he won't say it. There are many times where his dad like behavior comes to play, particular with criticizing Laios and respecting Izutsumi. But he is ultimately someone that will make sure everyone is safe and sound.

[lauren-ce]

Dunmeshi, food-horror, and SA analogues

@starstrike wrote a fantastic piece about Mithrun's backstory being an analogue for SA. I'd recommend reading that post first, because it helped me put my following thoughts in order.

On a similar note to theirs, I want to talk about one of the most joyous scenes in the manga, and how it's juxtaposed with two of the most horrifying ones. These scenes in context with each other have stuck with me ever since I saw them and they always make me feel somewhat sick to my stomach, and I think it's worth talking about how effectively they portray horror!

(trigger warnings for violence and SA imagery)

In chapter 67, chimera!Falin eats the first full meal she's been able to get her hands on. Up to this point she's been starving thanks to the combined issues of needing to feed a massive body with a small mouth, and Sissel not giving her the time to refuel.

Look at her expression of pure happiness! This series of panels captures what Dungeon Meshi is all about: the pure joy of eating a meal prepared by those who love you. But watch out!

The meal is a pretense to lull Falin to sleep. A meal prepared by family, to prepare the recipient to be eaten by family. What should be a joyous scene turns to horror as Laios kills his sister (note that the violence is inflicted on her human section, not on the dragon body)[Also note that his method of killing her is to cover her mouth, which was just previously the source of joy—now used against her to cut off her airflow and prevent life].

In this chapter, food is made the enemy. In most cases it has been the ally. Yes, their goal is ultimately to save Falin, but our protagonists are painted as the aggressors, using food as their weapon with which to kill the person they aim to save.

Soon after we get another horrible scene with the same food=enemy idea, in which Sissel is attacked/assaulted and devoured by the Winged Lion. This is Dungeon Meshi at its most horrible: we've never seen anyone get eaten alive before, not to mention that the scene looks like this:

which is clearly made to emulate the visual language of SA. Again, consider the framing here, with the Winged Lion on top and licking below Sissel's belt:

It's dehumanizing and cruel, calculated. The Lion eats his desire to resist first, then begins to strip away his identity.

In the end, the party and the islanders successfully eat Falin's dragon body and save her, but while Falin has no memory of the horror, it remains in our minds. Ryoko Kui takes the idea she's been building up, that food is a symbol of togetherness and companionship, and flips it on its head to devastating effect.

That's all (:

[erros429]

why are you calling farcille sapphic representation when they aren’t even canon

had a very lengthy internal debate with myself on whether i wanted to answer this with an essay or say something short like “because i’m sapphic and they represent me.” but you guys can have the essay too.

i’d like to preface this by saying that i understand where you’re coming from. explicit lgbt+ representation is so deeply important and queer characters in media needs to be normalized instead of tokenized so that queer viewers can feel like there is a world that accepts them and that they can belong in.

HOWEVER. this does not also mean that queercoding and subtext should be devalued, especially given how ingrained it is in queer culture and media. historically, when it was a lot more dangerous to show a character as queer without villainizing them in some way, subtext was all a queer viewer could have. but it’s because of those small hints (see: the legend of korra) that we could have popular media that unabashedly shows queer love. however, even that representation has been stifled, either by only allowing the queer love to be shown in the end (see: adventure time, she-ra, and voltron) or by straight up canceling the show itself (see: the owl house, warrior nun, i am not okay with this, sense8, and first kill).

now let’s get into the actual discussion of farcille. more often than not, shipping arises more from seeing the buildup of a couple rather than when they actually get into a relationship. and this goes for any ship, not just queer ones. but you’re not questioning me on shipping farcille, you’re questioning that i called them sapphic representation without them actually being canon (and therefore they can’t be considered representation).

however, i wholeheartedly think that farcille cannot be read as anything other than romantic, and i genuinely believe that (MANGA SPOILERS) they’d pursue a relationship post-canon, now that falin is un-chimera’d and marcille has a less anxious attachment style to the people she loves. dungeon meshi doesn’t focus on romance whatsoever, and there honestly wouldn’t be any time to show romance anyway because neither character was in a position to be ready for one, so the only appropriate moment would be post-canon.

and that’s where the importance of subtext comes in. ryoko kui’s storytelling relies heavily on her audience’s media literacy skills. though laios is never explicitly stated as autistic, his character is written in such an exquisite way, that any viewer could easily guess what she was trying to represent there. i would 100% consider him to be autistic representation, even without him saying it in-text. now why shouldn’t i be allowed to extend that same logic to farcille being sapphic representation? all the tell-tale queercoding signs are there, just like all the tell-tale autistic-coding is present in laios. i don’t need the two girls to kiss to be aware of how utterly devoted and in love they are with each other.