#i wont be friends with someone actively identifying as a bi lesbian because that's not something i think id be comfortable with

[the-ace-lesbians]

Bi lesbian doesn't mean what that answer to that ask says though, that would be bad. Bi lesbian is biromantic homosexual which if homoromantic asexuals exist follows logically. Not saying you have to be comfortable with it, I'm still untangling my feelings on it, but it's important to have information when you're talking about these things. As an ace its weirdly close to the 'if you're asexual you can't be gay because your romantic attraction and sexual attraction have to be the same' argument to be entirely comfortable.

I have a lot of thoughts but tl;dr

The SAM shouldn't be used outside of aspec identities, I respect people who identify as bi lesbians but I'm not gonna be social with them, and I feel like the main difference in 'if you're ace you can't be gay' and 'lesbians can't be bisexual' is that gayness does not require sexual attraction, but lesbianism does require no attraction to men.

I maintain that the split attraction model could and should not be used outside of asexuality. It just doesn't work outside of sexuality because it was made specifically to define an identity including a lack of allosexuality or alloromanticism, where you can lack sexual attraction but have romantic attraction to, say women. The SAM works for aces and aros because asexuality and aromanticism do not contradict with queer identity, but benefits in more correctly defining yourself can be had from a modifier being used such as 'biromantic' or 'homoromantic' instead of simply 'bisexual' or 'homosexual'

Issue is, the foundation of being a lesbian is not including men and loving women. Bisexual and lesbian, while of course we share similar attractions and love and experiences, contradict each other if used together to explain a single identity, because one specifically requires the absence of attraction to men. To me, using the SAM to say you're a biromantic woman but you only like women sexually just feels like internalized comphet to an extreme degree - everything about a lot of it (of course not all and not every definition because it's a nuanced discussion) just feels like comphet to me.

Outside of that, the answer from that ask is absolutely one of the many different meanings to the term 'bi lesbian'. I've never even seen it applied to biromantic homosexuals, only bisexual sapphics who don't want to use the term bisexual sapphic.

I've seen plenty of people say other meanings, but the main one I see is people using it instead of bisexual sapphic or any other term we have specifically to avoid including men in lesbianism. It's a label that has an incredible amount of meanings, and it's definitely different to everyone who uses it or talks about it. There is no defining meaning.

I think, personally, the conversation is still different from the aphobic things people say - Primarily because gay doesn't specify sexual or romantic attraction. Like I said above, asexuality does not contradict anything about a lesbian identity. Lesbianism about loving other sapphics and only other sapphics - a loose definition because gender is so strange and confusing, but we can at least all agree that women.

It was absolutely acephobic and arophobic rhetoric that guided the OG hatred and aphobia we saw in the queer community, and it still is, but the reason that it's wrong to say we can't be gay and ace is because we literally, by definition, can be. Gayness and queer love isn't defined by sex, you know?

I do hear how it can sound too similar, and in the beginning that was a big reason I didn't have any opinion. I think the main difference is that in this, one of the labels used is quite literally defined by the lack one thing that the other has.

Even then, I'm not going to campaign against people identifying with the label bi lesbian, and I'd protect them if they needed help, they're still my queer siblings even if I don't particularly feel comfortable with the way they're labeling themselves because that's genuinely just none of my business, and my feelings don't mean anything about their identity!

And, in turn, their identity and feelings have no effect on my identity because I'm always going to consider lesbianism something devoid of men and attraction to men, that's sort of the whole point of it.

I also feel the need to say that I am actively reading more into this because I do want to know more! I have a lot of thoughts, and my main one tends to be that labels evolve and change with time and old definitions shouldn't be gospel while new definitions deserve to change, but at the same time some definitions sort of just... can't be changed.

Just as well, side note, another reason I dislike the term bi lesbian is because I have also seen it used by TERFs to describe sapphics dating trans women or sapphics who have had relationships with men, and I feel like if your label is used for transphobic and hateful purposes maybe we should all use the regular terms we had to describe this identity like 'sapphic' or 'sapphic bisexual' or literally just 'bisexual' because bisexuals aren't inherently going to date multiple genders and bisexuality is a beautiful word and identity with a beautiful history but idk I am definitely biased because I love bisexuals so much

[redheadbigshoes]

Hi, I noticed your bio says you’re open to giving advice and I don’t know if this is comp het or not but id be really grateful for any insight.

Basically, I am 20 and have never been in a relationship.  Is it okay to identify as a lesbian if I’ve not 100% felt like a lesbian in the past and haven’t been in a relationship?

I used to identify as bi but I now cant imagine myself or feel like I would want a relationship with a man. But because I have maybe liked a boy when I was younger I feel i should now or if it was just comp het.  It feels a bit alien to me, although if I picture it in a very queer way with me being a boy or more masculine (I am quite femme) and the boy being queer too or the perfect kind of Disney animation. I can imagine it blurrily but not really in reality. Sometimes I feel as though I need to just find a man and that I can like boys like everyone else. I feel like if i found a boy who was basically Remus lupin I might be interested and I used to find boys like timothee chalmet attractive but again, I don’t know .

I identify as a lesbian and have used the word to describe myself with friends. Although I have explained that im not sure if im bi. But I feel like I am a lesbian because the word brings me a lot of comfort, joy and is freeing. It feels like me.

The feeling that people wont see me as potentially being with a man or have men thinking id be open for a relationship with them is so nice but scary. I feel like i can talk to me friends like i would my journal, like they know me better now. I feel like for the first time in my life I feel comfortable with cis het men because it is like I can treat them like brothers I never had.

Although, at the same time I feel a lot of sadness because I never knew this. I didn’t grow up wanting a girlfriend, I felt very happy watching straight rom coms, talking about my dream wedding. I remember being on the bus at the age of 16 and seeing a random boy I didn’t know . For some reason I wanted him to notice me , wanted him to know me. It feels weird to me now, to think of how much of my early teens revolved around imagining id love a boy and believing I could when that’s so confusing to me now. Now, I feel like I actively don’t think of men because so much of my life I thought I’d had to and I don’t want that to take up space even though maybe I’m just denying I’m bi? I guess this makes me feel discomfort because i feel like ive found who i am but what if i havent.

I remember shutting the idea that I could be bi down at 15 because id never felt like that... and then realised later i was not straight because i thought about wanting a girlfriend very often. I just don’t want to be lying, but I don’t feel happy identifying as bi because I can’t imagine wanting a boyfriend. I also have never had sex, and I cannot imagine it with a man at all unless I change. I watch a lot of Tv/films with lgbtqa + characters to feel validation and comfort. I can sometimes / more often imagine having sex with a women and it feels safer in my head to me.

I have also questioned if im maybe asexual, because I don’t know comparatively what its like to really like someone and wanting sex feels quite externally pressured sometimes.

Id love to have a girlfriend and yet I haven’t found anyone that I really like. Maybe this is because I am a big introvert but hey I don’t know. Anyway, I’m sorry for this big ramble, but I guess I think about this a lot.

Hi!

First is that having had previous experiences with men or not having any type of experience in terms of relationships doesn’t mean you can’t be a lesbian (or any other identity for that matter).

You have to understand that sexuality can be fluid, even though it’s not fluid for a lot of people. So it’s definitely possible for you to have liked a guy in the past but right now think you don’t like men nor can’t imagining yourself with a man in the future.

Also, what you felt about that boy doesn’t mean it was a crush. When it comes to comphet our “crushes” aren’t actual crushes. You can find guys attractive while not being attracted to them. Noticing their physical beauty has nothing to do with sexuality.

When it comes to unattainable men they’re usually portrayed as perfect and made to be appealing to women, those men don’t really exist in real life.

I think trying out a label can definitely help you understand whether you actually fit that label or not. There’s nothing wrong with doing that.

And as a lesbian, I really relate to your feeling that you’re more comfortable (in some ways) around men. Because after you figure you’re a lesbian you also understand you don’t have to do anything for men and to always please them.

I think a lot of lesbians didn’t really grow up yearning to have a girlfriend, because that would mean that we all knew about our sexuality right from the start. And in the society that we live in it’s perfectly normal to figure your attraction later in life. I can speak for myself that as a child I’ve never wanted a girlfriend, but that’s because it wasn’t shown as a possibility to me, I thought only boys could be with girls in that way.

We as women (and anyone who is treated as a woman by society) are taught to like men and center them in our lives since we’re born. We’re influenced to want marriage and a family with a man, so it’s perfectly natural for little girls (even lesbians) trying imagining themselves with men and liking straight romance, because that’s the only thing you were shown as possible. I’d watch rom-coms and pretend the guy didn’t exist and that the story wasn’t all centered around a straight romance, and that would make it a little more enjoyable to watch.

Believe me I also spent my childhood and teen years revolving around eventually finding a man to settle down with. All that does not make me any less lesbian because I’m not responsible for what other people taught me was the right thing and what they influenced me to be and to believe.

A lot of the things you said I relate with, so I think you really could be a lesbian.

Now for the advices:

1) I think you should watch the comphet related videos I post here, you just click on the tag “source: patronsaintoflesbians” after you watch that video because there’s a bunch of those videos that can help you figure out your identity. 2) Maybe read both the lesbian masterdoc and the bisexual manifesto? They could help you understand your attraction (or the lack off) and even if you end up not being bi or lesbian I’d still advise reading both. The only thing is that I think you shouldn’t only rely on the videos or the masterdoc/manifesto, try watching the videos and reading the docs to make sure of your identity. The masterdoc’s link is on my pinned post.

[vampireqrow-moved]

hey so I agree with a lot of the stuff in your post about the transphobia involved in the origin of the pansexual label, but I just have one question: what are the actual impacts of people with good intentions calling themselves pan? If you don't hate pansexuals and consider them bi, why type up a paragraphs long manifesto on the harms of the origin of the label if it means the same thing in the way that most non transphobic people (your audience) use it? a lot of identities can be used in transphobic ways (like bi and lesbian and anything really) and plenty of valid identities from problematic roots and evolve over time as people use them differently (queer, transsexual). so how is a person with good intentions using a not-perfect label in a way you don't like a threat to the community? if someone is using the label pan transphobically, wouldn't their bigotry exist independently? if pan people do not act in transphobic ways besides using the label pansexual, realistically what is changing if they call themselves bi beyond holier-than-thou aesthetic activism? plus, a blog on the internet isn't going to get everyone to stop identifying as pansexual, especially considering multiple prominent celebrities ID as pan. so why spend all that energy quibbling on semantics because some bi people use a slightly different word when you could be worrying about Literally anything else? just feels like you want to find something to argue about lol. extremely disappointed that I had to break a mutual

im going to respond to each thing you bring up chronologically- im not trying to nitpick or prioritize certain things you say ill just forget things if i go out of order and i dont want to miss something important. ALSO! i will be typing less formally (like keysmashes and shortening words n stuff) in this response than my og post bc its 1am as im starting to type this so im tired but i want to be clear that i am like. taking this seriously and im not like. mocking u in anyway if it could read that way?? i hope not but just in case anyways here it goes!

in terms of actual impact people with good intentions identifying as pan: honestly im not  sure the full scope of the impact this has, so ill only be speaking to what ive personally seen which might not be all. but like... id argue my younger self has good intentionals iding as pan. i wanted to support trans people, even if i didnt understand a lot of the nuance involved. as a result of this, i developed a sense of superiority over other bisexuals and a mentality that bisexuality was a primitive and lesser sexuality. that mentality is harmful, and although im not sure if it affected bisexuals around me (of which there are many most of my friends are bi ajfjfjf) its still a harmful mentality and can easily hurt people even if i specifically didnt. also using it even with good intentions, which i know many people have, still spreads and further normalizes a label that imo can not be separated from its transphobic origins. this effect is not as extreme as other forms of transphobia and biphobia by A LONG SHOT. the bi community faces a lot of other issues but that doesnt mean this one isnt worth addressing if that makes sense?

if i dont hate pansexuals: ik this is part of a larger point which i will adress but i specified this in my post bc i see a lot of other posts that are negative towards pansexuality have "i hate pan ppl" somewhere in it or a close equivalent. i do not shame these ppl for their anger, i just wanted to be clear i think a lot of pan ppl are bi ppl with good intentions choosing a label they dont fully understand based on a misunderstanding of bisexuality.

why write a paragraphs long manifesto on the harms of pansexuals origin: ok 😭😭 the real reason here is that im literally just bad at summarizing. like thats literally it. i also like talking, its a bad combination. plus ive been thinking abt this for like. over a year im not even kidding and just like i have a lot of thoughts and figured if i was going to bother making my own post instead of rbing someone elses that i might as well get everything i wanted to say off my chest. ALSO BTW i literally got an ask like a week ago that was several paragraphs long asking me to explain my thoughts on why pan was harmful and some other stuff so like. this is partially responding to that and partially just me wanting to air my grievances ? idk if thats the right expression 😔😔

why write the post if my audience of people who identify as pan arent doing it in a transphobic way ? again sorry i didnt really understand the phrasing so i hope this is a vaguely correct summary!! um but like... again imo i think pan cant be separated from its transphobia and like. again imo iding as pan is like. a transphobic action/choice? obviously one transphobic thing does mean someone necessarily is like officially a Transphobe (it CAN be depending on the action but i dont think that applies here) but that doesnt mean there arent problems with what they did. this is like very complicated, but like. someone doing something harmful without the knowlege that its harmful doesnt make that person a bigot by any means it just means they didnt know. and i feel thats the case here? a lot of ppl (myself included until recently) know next to nothing abt pansexualitys origins so a trans inclusve sexuality might seem like a safe and good bet just because they dont know too much abt it, and like? i cant hate those people cause that was me for 5+ years and djgjfjdj you just dont know what you dont know!

basically i think iding with a transphobic label is inherently a singular transphobic action that doesnt make the person transphobic by itself, but is still a transphobic instance.

a lot of identities can be used in transphobic ways like bi, lesbian, etc.: this is true and a point i attempted to make on my original post, but i might not have clear enough. my issue with pan is specifically that it is a transphobic response to a preexisting identity. lesbian isnt an attempted trans inclusive indentity that replaced an identity that already existed (which have many trans ppl identifying with the og label). transphobes can use whatever labels they want, but transphobes using a label vs a label having a transphobic origin is very different. bigots use inclusive and supporting language for their bigotry all the time but language that originated with that bigotry is worse.

many valid identities stem from problemstic origins (like transsexual and queer) but the words evolve: ok my paraphrasing is a little weird there. anyways. the thing here is that. those are slurs. reclaimed slurs that can be empowering to many people, yes, but slurs nonetheless. reclaiming a slur is taking a harmful word and wearing it as a badge of pride. first off, pansexual is not a slur (ur not implying that in anyway just. saying) and it isnt being reclaimed when people dont treat it as having harmful origins. transsexual is the way some people identify but ppl acknowlege its a slur and originates from transphobia. ppl love to act like queer isnt a slur, which is an issue in and of itself, but just. factually it has historically and is currently being used against ppl with the intent to hurt them. pansexual isnt on the same level as these and other words like the f slur, d slur, etc. pansexual originates from trans and biphobia WITHIN the community and not outside of it, and most pansexuals dont see themselves as reclaiming the title because they dont think anythings wrong with it in the first place. and reclaiming it just seems unnecessary considering its history? theres no empowerment from using pan as a label as opposed to queer or transsexual, and it just divides the bisexual community for no reason.

how is a person using a not-perfect label a threat to the community? ok i dont think its a threat but still an issue if that difference makes sense? id like to reiterate a few things ive said before, but for me personally, it made me look down on bisexuals and see them as lesser, and it made people around me see pan as the "trans inclusive" sexuality as opposed to bisexuality, and basically its usage just leads to further biphobia. is this the worst of biphobia? no!!! but its still biphobia and why not attempt to target and minimize that? i have no way to singlehandedly stop biphobia, but my post might get through to my friends who id as pan and that small thing is better than nothing.

if someone used the pan label in a transphobic way, wouldnt that bigotry be different from people using it not transphobically?: someone claiming all bi ppl are transphobic and only pan is the acceptable label is obviously a lot worse than someone iding as pan and saying bi/pan solidarity but again, the second isnt not an issue because the first one is a bigger issue, its just a smaller issue in comparison. i wouldnt say the bigotry is different, one is just worse than the other, but it still has the same problems.

if pan people dont do anything transphobic other than id as pan then what changes with iding as bi over pan other holier-than-thou activism: its just one less person using a transphobic label? which isnt that big but it might lead to their friends stopping iding as pan and cause fewer people around them to see bi as a transphobic identity. which is small scale stuff, i wont try to blow it out of proportion, but thats still a step in the right direction and hopefully more people follow with it. its not terribly huge or lifechanging but something small that may only affect the people close to you is still something rather than nothing.

a blog the internet isnt going to get people to stop iding as pan: oh absolutely not. honestly i expected to get unfollowed/blocked more than change peoples minds regarding the pan label (im surprised i only lost two followers so far honestly) but again, someone literally asked me to do this and i wanted to be clear on my stance on the label, since in the past ive been supportive of it. im not expecting the post to get more than five likes, its more directed to my followers rather than the internet as a whole. im not expecting a large impact, im hoping to change the minds of my followers and friends who id as and support the pan label. thats it. if something bigger comes from it- great! but thats not what im aiming to do.

prev point + many prominent celebrities id as pan: the first name that comes to mind is someone im not a fan of for separate reasons but thats irrelevant. i mean im repeating myself a bit but some celebrities in the past validated and made me feel excited abt my identity as a pan person when they came out, and it justified the label to me, even when i had doubts. i have never interacted with a celebrity and do not plan to change their minds abt their identity. again, my post was for my friends and followers and maybe who ever was scrolling through the biphobia tag and decided to read my post.

why spend that much energy worrying abt the pan label instead of something else: ive spent waaaaay more energy thinking abt a singular meme i didnt like regarding my favourite rwby character so like. maybe i just overreact to things lol. maybe i have a lot of energy and since i cant talk my friends ears off abt my favourite fruits or the different voting methods i learned in my math class or what would dreams taste like, then i gotta put my energy into something. idk. i have a lot of energy and honestly? this didnt take that much. but i felt it weighing on me as my friends talked positively abt the pan label, when i felt guilty for the superiority i felt over my bi friends INCLUDING my best friend and favourite person in the world so like. i spent enough energy worrying abt it, and like. in hindsight since its been over 12 hours since posting it, im thinking abt it less. i was more worried abt feeling dishonest with my friends than actually worrying abt pansexuality, but i figured i owed them an explanation for why my feelings around it had changed.

just feels like you want to find something to argue about: okay i DO love arguing but im not pulling this out of my ass for fun. its in response to posts ive seen on my dash, asks i recieved abt pansexuality, and my way of letting people know my views have changed and why since i know at least some people are curious.

i am sorry to lose a mutual as well, and i genuinely hope things go well for you, but uh yeah thats that.

again, if people have further questions im willing to answer them i just might take a while bc i have school and other stuff 2 do but uhhh yea sorry if im clogging ur dash sjfjfkkf

[peachypaige200]

Happy Pride Month

I know some people have this thought when thinking about Pride Month:

"There's not an entire month dedicated to straight pride, so is this really necessary?"

Well, to us it is.

That's like saying: "is Black history month necessary if there is no white history month?"

This month is for celebrating our sexualities and embracing who we are after decades of struggle against oppression.

Straight people never had that problem. They've never experienced what it's like to be bullied or ridiculed just for who you love. It's not something they can really ever understand, unless they really try to put themselves in our shoes.

I am a bisexual , I always knew about it, but for years I tried to hide who I was and follow the crowd. Just being what people thought was normal. But when I finally embraced who I was, it felt like a huge weight was lifted off my shoulders. my friends knew me well enough to know already and were very supportive of me, and I'm very lucky to have friends and family who live me as I am.

Truthfully, Im still not very active in the LGBTQ community, I'm a little shy still when it comes to talking about my sexuality. (But that just might be my nerves getting the best of me.) But I hope to attend my first pride festival and maybe meet some interesting people.

Ok, enough with the sappy stuff. Let's discuss common questions members of the LGBTQ+ community.

FAQs for the LGBTQ/ phrases that just grind our gears

Whose the guy/girl in the relationship?

Theres not supposed to be one.

Do you like threesomes?

Some people do, some don't.

Ew, are you attracted to me?

Just like girls can be friends with guys there not attracted to, I and many other ladies can be friends with other ladies and NOT be attracted to them. And just like how girls have certain types they're interested in, lesbians and bisexuals do too. Jeez

Hey, do you think that girl is cute? (Lesbians + Bi)

What the fuck did I just say? Maybe. Still, don't assume!

Do you hate men? (Lesbians)

Just because a girl dates a girl doesn't mean they hate men.

You like girls and guys? Why don't you just pick one? (Bi)

Jee, I didn't know you could do that! You damn moron it doesn't work that way.

So you still have a vagina/penis? (Transgender)

This bothered a lot of my transitioning friends and transgender people over all. Teens usually have to wait to get to the operation, and some can't afford it or have disapproving families. It's not really your business, see them as the gender they represent themselves as, not by their parts.

Isn't intersex the same as being transgender?

Intersex is to be between male and female, transgender is to be born one gender, but identify as another. There! Now you've learned something new.

What's the whole acronym for LGBTQ?

Uhh, depends who you ask. I know it as LGBTTQQIAAPD (lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, transsexual, queer, questioning, intersex, asexual, ally, pansexual, demisexual) trust me there are many more.

What is demisexual, and intersex? I've never heard of those.

I've explained intersex. Demisexuals are people who don't experience sexual attraction unless they form a strong emotional connection with someone.

And now... My "favorite"

You don't look like a (insert term here).

People seem to think all lesbians wear flannel and kakis, all gay men wear pastel colored rompers and are super fashion forward and all bisexuals wear cuffed jeans with baggy shirts tucked into them. I wont say those are all false, because I happen to wear cuffed jeans and flannel, and some of my gay friends to fall into some those categories. But you’re clothes don’t define you or you’re orientation, I know plenty of straight people who dress like that, but that doesn’t make them gay.

Ok wow, sorry, LONG rant.

I’ll be real with you, just dont let people try and tell you who you should b, and NEVER try to change for others. The people who love you the most will love you no matter what, and if your family or friends disapprove, you can always find someone to reach out too and who will care for you. It can be hard, but you’ll pull through.

Peace out my freaks ‘n geeks