#i'm just tired of shoehorned romance

[get-hamilton-on-your-side]

I've been seeing posts like these going around lately, and I don't want to start Discourse™️, but I do think it's an interesting conversation to be had.

OP mentions that this is a sentiment occurring in younger viewers, and I think there are lots of reasons for this response. I'm in my early twenties, and growing up, romance was pretty much guaranteed for any book/movie/TV series with a YA audience, even if it wasn't specifically in the romance genre. There were largely popular romance series, of course, (Twilight, The Selection, etc.), but romance was also integral to several series NOT centered around romance. The Series Which Shall Not Be Named ends in a hetero utopia, where basically every member of the original crew grows up, marries each other, and all have kids. Almost every main character of Rick Riordan's series experiences a committed romantic relationship, with the exception of Reyna, (although she's mostly a side character throughout HoO) and Meg (who is a god, and an actual child). The Hunger Games has fewer romantic pairings, but the marketing for those movies were very dedicated to the "love triangle" narrative between Katniss, Peeta, and Gale.

The dedication to establishing romantic relationships does appear somewhat differently for male/masculine and female/feminine coded characters well. For example, I've seen multiple series have a sort of "7th wheel syndrome" where one member of a friend group is made fun of and/or left out in some way because they're the only one not in a relationship. Shows like The Big Bang Theory majorly have this problem, where every character's main goal in life is to fall in love and have a family. In TBBT, Raj has major dating troubles and actually ends up settling for an arranged marriage because his friends are all married and he doesn't want to end up alone. Riordan's HoO series, once again, paints Leo as a tragic figure for being the only single person on the Argo II, but his self worth is finally in tact by the end of the series when he saves the day and gets the girl. Fez in That 70s Show is regularly made fun of for his inability to get a girl. It's not lost on me that many of the male characters in these situations are POC.

While male characters are set up with a last-minute shoehorned romance, female characters (particularly white women) are often given a love interest planned from the beginning. I love Marissa Meyer's Lunar Chronicles but I was kind of dumbfounded by the end because every one of the 8 major characters ends the series in a committed relationship. Every single Disney princess up until 2012 had a prince (although, this has since changed---the only princess post-2012 with a prince is Anna).

And then, of course, you have the plethora of sitcoms that end with every character (or at least every main character) happily in a relationship. New Girl, Parks and Rec, Friends, The Office, The Good Place, Ghosts (US). Even shows like Phineas and Ferb assure the audience that the couples stay together when they're grown up. Almost every Marvel and DC superhero has a love interest, and most action heroes have a girl to save.

Don't get me wrong, I think many of the romances in the media I've talked about so far are good, well-written, and well-established. But based on the previous track-record of shoehorned romances, that is a concern I have about shows like Stranger Things (I won't talk much about The Bear because I haven't seen that show). Stranger Things has highlighted friendship as a major theme in the show, but as the characters have grown older, they've explored various romantic relationships as well. Many people online have already discussed how they fear relationships will be shoehorned in at the end of Season 5, since it is the final season. Ships like stancy, where it's clear that they wouldn't really work well together. I agree with Maya Hawke's sentiment about delving deeper into her friendships. It has been established that she has a crush on Vickie, but we've barely seen them together, and in a show that has to balance SO many different characters, I'm not sure it would serve the show well to put Robin in a romantic relationship. (There is, of course, another conversation to be had about how minority characters are presented in romantic relationships in media. Lesbian relationships are less commonly found in media and they can be really important to some viewers. My agreeing with Hawke is just my 2 cents as an ace lesbian. Other users have also mentioned that when it comes to The Bear, it can be harmful to perpetuate that a Black woman character shouldn't be in a relationship with the main white guy. I haven't seen the show and I myself am not Black, so I won't weigh in on that aspect, but it is another thing to consider in this conversation).

With romance so prevalent in media, it makes sense that our generation is taking a steep turn in the other direction. We've been shown all our lives that romance and sex trumps friendship in importance, but that's not how many of us actually live. Younger people are having sex less. I'm 22 and I'd say half of my friends are not currently in a romantic relationship, and many of them aren't looking for one. I know plenty of adults as well who are happily single, not looking for any more romance in their lives. Even the way people are experiencing romantic and sexual relationships is vastly different from what is shown on TV as there are more openly queer individuals, queer platonic relationships, and polyamory is becoming more prevalent.

I'm not an expert by any means, so take everything I say with a grain of salt. This is all based on my own observation and there is still a lot of media out there that don't have romance as a focal point, media like The Lord of the Rings, It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, Letterkenny, Bob's Burgers, Reservation Dogs, What We Do in the Shadows, Derry Girls. Shows like Doctor Who have characters in romantic relationships, but the romance is never placed above friendship with the Doctor. The amount of romance in a piece of media also relies on the genre it's in. I've mainly been discussing comedies, science fiction, and action, but other media such as horror, for example, treats romance and sexuality differently.

Still, showing romance, sex, and innuendo in media isn't counterculture, as is suggested by that second Twitter post. It's almost everywhere you look (and lots of kid shows/movies even include those kinds of jokes, as is shown by the amount of videos I've seen titled "I Didn't Get This Joke as a Kid.") I know we're on the internet so people don't care if they hurt other people's feelings, but acting like people who want a little less romance are immature or stupid can be hurtful. There's room for all different types of relationships.

TL;DR, I think a lot of people are just tired of media treating romance and sex as the most important relationship you can have with a person. We're not saying no media should have romance or sexuality or innuendo in it. It's just that as media diversifies, I think it's important to diversify the types of relationships highlighted as well. There's room for romance, sex, and friendship in media, and I don't think people should judge others for wanting positive representation of friendship.

[reluctantbylerblog]

just watched a movie where the main male and female character kiss for no other reason other than it's expected, but sure, queer characters with no romantic relationships in a show where there are only straight couples is tooootally revolutionary

[mandrathekandra]

I'm not saying you're wrong, but could you give me an explanation of why you think Kaladin is aro?

Hi! Of course I will be happy to answer. I’m very tired so you are getting a long run on sentence unfortunately lol

In summary he spends words of radiance generally being part of a love triangle he is only barely aware of, realizes he confused his platonic affection for shallan for romance (which can be common in the aro community, how do you really define romantic attraction? Especially when you don’t experience it yourself?), idk how common it is for allos to confuse romantic attraction with being reminded of your kid brother and wanting to be friends like seriously, he repeatedly forgets that the bridgemembers might get married or have relationships, he seems to think about romance very little compared to other characters, he was notably proud of remembering that uh drehy? was gay and that the other one was dating the bartender woman? Which highlighted how little he thought about it, the few times he mentions it it’s almost like he views romance as a nebulous inevitability rather than a desire, many other fantasy books have a tendency to shoehorn in romance even when it’s immensely impractical so I just appreciated that not being his focus, and I like the idea of having a major POV epic fantasy character be aromantic which we don’t see a lot. I want aromantic rep and he’s a genuinely cool character I like and it would be nice to have a popular aro character.

AND! He was also entirely oblivious to the rhythm of war phenomenon where light eyed women were going to his clinic just to flirt which is a huge aro mood, I cannot and will not register if someone is into me I do not think about it at all.

To me as an aro person I think he feels aro and I simply decided it’s more fun for me that way!

I think I specifically head canon him as aromantic grey ace

Sorry if this is a mess to read/breaches any tumblr ask etiquette idk I’m very tired and haven’t gotten real social on here so I’m just rambling at ya :) cheers

[comfymoth]

May I ask something? Why you don't like Wilbur? (genuine question, I don't watch him, I'm just curious)

Also! I'm pretty sure that Quackity and Roier's duo name is just Quackitoier (because Roier give it that name). I've seen some English speakers use Quackoier, if I'm not mistaken, but I don't like the way it's sounds

i think someone told me quackitoier/quackoier refers to the ccs only?? idek if that’s true but that’s the only reason i don’t use it, cos i don’t post about those guys much. if i’m real i don’t use any kind of duo name for them cos i literally only ship post but like that’s not what this is about that’s not the point

so like. man. okay, so it’s not even that i dislike wilbur or whatever, it’s just that i really dislike his fanbase and specifically his fanbase within the qsmp. i’m tired of his fans’ behavior in twitch chats, i’m tired of them shoehorning him into lore he’s not involved with, i’m tired of how fanon-y he is, i’m especially tired of whatever that ‘omgg imagine wilbur teaching quackity to read’ nonsense was when That lore dropped. like that was really my last straw there. because i used to like qwilbur back in may! i did! but then i got kind of tired of his fanon portrayal, and then i got really tired of seeing it everywhere, and then i got frustrated with his fans’ treatment of other characters and then they hit me with the ‘what if we made qquackity’s trauma into cute romance fodder’ take and it soured everything so badly for me i had to quit. and now i am bitter. and resentful. and mean.

i feel like this isn’t worded super great because again. it is 10 pm. and i am half asleep. but yeah that’s all the major points

[liesmyth]

I'm nearly done with ACOWAR and like. I'm trying to care about Cassian and Nesta but honestly my most recurring Nesta ship thought is Nesta/Elain.

NESTA/ELAIN I love your brain so much! unfortunately I'm cold to negative on Cassian/Nesta, mostly because I think that Nesta is way too cool for the story SJM stuck her in, and everyone she interacts with does her dirty, and the romance is shoehorned... I'm a hater. Rescue my girl from that book and take her to warrior lesbians island

also this ask made me go look for all my goodreads updates while I was reading the Nesta book (court of silver flames) and here's all of them in order. I really was in the trenches. I remember I finished it & immediately went to look for fic and I found @flowerflamestars's ao3

July 8, 2022 - 1.0%

I must confess I have finished 3 of these books now and I still have no idea of what that Cauldron even IS. A real physical object, a metaphor for creation, a pocket alternate dimension, a TARDIS? Who knows bc I sure don't

July 8, 2022 - 5.0%

July 10, 2022 – 15.0%

Look, I love Nesta. I came into this book Very excited and all primed to have a good time, hyped up and ready to go!!

and then 3 chapters in I remembered that I don't really trust Sarah with the characters I like so picture me reading this book like a kid peeking through their fingers watching a scary movie, nervous af but needing TO KNOW

July 11, 2022 – 20.0%

I desperately want to like this more but STAPH @ all this bloated political drama about people I don't care about

gimme more Nesta or give me death

FINALLY things are happening that I care about

July 11, 2022 – 27.0%

Cassian saying "core" and meaning "abs" vs. Nesta hearing "core" and thinking about romance smut is exactly what goes through my head every time I listen to these audiobooks while working out

July 12, 2022 – 30.0%

everytime rhys gets mentioned in this book i roll my eyes the same way nesta does

July 12, 2022 – 32.0%

July 13, 2022 – 46.0%

Sabrina was so right about Amren and I hate it

(Sabrina being my friend who said to me early on: you won't like Amren's arc in this book)

Cassian sexing up (?) Nesta to bring her out of her trance, in front of all his friends whom Nesta doesn't like very much, is... aggressively Not my kink, wow

July 14, 2022 – 54.0%

I just think Nesta is really neat

July 14, 2022 – 60.0%

getting pretty tired of rhys & co arbitrarily deciding is cool to keep potentially life-threatening information from the women in their lives

July 14, 2022 – 60.0%

Rhys: she could literally die but let's not tell her FOR HER OWN GOOD

everyone else: you're such a good boss. saviour of everything. guiding light of this circle. sure let's do that!

July 14, 2022 – 61.0%

"Amren: dictatorship is sexy actually" — WTF is going on with everyone's characterization in this book?

July 14, 2022 – 60.0%

anyway, like. i'm sure as hell not reading this smutty supernatural fantasy romance with my critical brain turned on, but the way this book keeps trying to Make A Point about Trauma and Misogyny and Feminist Empowerment while being riddled with misogynistic implications is sure fascinating to behold. sarah janet. honey. have some self awareness i'm begging you

July 15, 2022 – 65.0%

Literally Rhys: Nesta saw fit to inform Feyre of the very real risk to her actual life, how absolutely dare, I'm scary murderous and I want her gone before I fucking kill her

All those absolute tools: This seems like a totally normal reaction to have! Rhys should be highest king, what a great dude

Me: actually do get Nesta out of the city she deserves better

July 15, 2022 – 66.0%

ok but seriously why is this book trying to make it seem like making someone aware of a potentially life-threatening medical condition is "an unforgivable thing". why sarah. why

July 16, 2022 – 78.0%

Death Queen Nesta is just really hot, methinks

July 16, 2022 – 80.0%

I unapologetically AM very, very into Eris/Nesta, actually

July 18, 2022 – 80.0%

“I want to take that road.” Her voice thickened. “I want to take the road that no one dares travel, and I want to travel it with you two.” — AWWW GWYN!!!!! 😍😭❤️"

July 19, 2022 – 98.0%

this is so predictable and underwhelming :))

[mass-effect-anonymous]

CONFESSION:

This is an unpopular opinion but I can't stand the asari and I know I couldn't put it just out in the open because I'd be sent hate mail until I went off Tumblr. I don't like Liara because I'm really tired of trying to be shoehorned into romancing her by the game because she's the "correct" romance and I prefer the type of story arc she has with Leliana over her. I don't like that she's always in love with my Shep and still is just so obviously in love with my Shep despite her being in a committed relationship. I just want to be friends and I can't ever say this out loud because of the toxic fandom.

[metamatar]

I desperately want to hear more about your opinions on the expanse 👀

can't believe i'm being egged on to hate publically and im falling for it.

Well, half of book 1 as @thelittlebirdthatkeptsomanywarm so eloquently put it is about a middle aged male detective falling in love with a rich dead girl. It's tired, it's cliche, but worst of all, the one sided romance is so undercooked I was actually surprised when it got shoehorned in because their early relationship seemed to be pegged as paternal. Boring.

There's a real desire in the series to talk about imperial exploitation through the situation of the Belters, and future revolutionary possibilities, but unfortunately that becomes background dressing for a story that is about great power jockeying for Evil Space Fungus Weapons. The creole language spoken by Belters being an interesting mixture of non English languages really added texture that I appreciated. I was willing to give it a second chance, really, and I find many of the side characters very compelling. The second book in particular has a divorced agricultural scientist single dad whose chronically ill daughter is kidnapped that has a really rich storyline.

The eventual problem for me that resulted in giving up on the series is that the authors reveal a love for Space Hillary Clinton in Chrisjen Avasarala. I'm sorry you had to read that sentence but the second book really is a West Wing like fantasy about girlbosses using their power to wrangle compromises and getting world peace. I don't know much about the authors but it's like they have this deep sensitivity to the underclass crushed under capitalism and imperialism's boots but they just can't stop being liberals. They love a bougie woman who means well.

James Holden/Naomi Nagata's relationship falls into the archetype of tortured brooding hero turned from the dark path (murdering weapons manufacturers) to the light (non violence) through the love of a woman. The science is fun, their world has so much potential, but the authors don't have enough curiosity about the world to do something actually meaningful with it. Additionally, the nods to inclusivity with a 'diverse cast' and the flagged mentions of the heritage of various characters is very hamfisted, full of surface details that are at worst weirdly fetishising (esp Naomi) and at best plain awkwardly phrased.

[mmprviolet]

I'm not as stung as i was before but I'm still skeptical on purelily cuz, there's just been soooo many male/female friendships that end up secretly romantic and i get so tired. Like, can't we have an intimate m/f friendship that STAYS platonic? Just bcuz you're friends with someone doesn't always guarantee romance. Platonic love is just as important and fulfilling. P.V. and Lily don't need to be romantic to be great their friendship was enough and it's so refreshing that a guy and a girl could have a compelling and tragic dynamic without shoehorning romantic attraction.

[the-mighty-glow-cloud]

ok actual articulated takes on netflix archive 81 because i've been thinking about it all day and the more i think about it the less i like it, spoilers for the show and podcast under the cut

probably goes without saying but i wasn't a fan of Straight Melody, especially since it seems like they did it just to make space for a dan/melody romance?? i get so tired of media shoehorning in romance just for the sake of having it there, especially so when that involves straightwashing a character who is very clearly specified to be queer in the source material

also wasn't crazy about how they made these whole intertwining backstories for dan and melody, it made the whole thing feel kind of contrived and someone else already said this but part of what's appealing about dan in the podcast is that he's literally just Some Guy who needed a job, there was no grand conspiracy to get him specifically to the archive

probably my biggest gripe with it is kaelego, i HATED that they threw out the leviathans in favor of making it a demon!! i get that the leviathans would be difficult in some ways to portray in a tv show, but like. netflix Has The Resources, i think there was definitely a way to make visser work rather than just having it be a demon

going with a demon also takes away a huge chunk of the Weirdness that is so much of the appeal of the podcast (at least to me), i feel like they made that change to make it more palatable to a broader audience which... i get it, but also you can totally make Weird Shit that people aren't familiar with and have it do well, falling back on demons felt lazy to me

didn't really love the whole thing with melody coming from a bloodline of witches, same kind of thing as with dan where she was just Some Lady and they gave her this whole grand destiny thing. give us more media where regular-ass people get caught up in incomprehensible weird shit and it doesn't turn out that it was fate or prophecy or whatever

what was that whole thing with the random woman who stole melody's identity?? did i miss something or was that just super random and never came up again???

i didn't necessarily dislike putting iris vos in the 1920s, especially since a81 does plenty of weird time stuff with the golden age, but it did take some straightening out in my head

mark was annoying. i'm just gonna say it. i did not like how they wrote him, he came off like a douchebag frat boy who listens to joe rogan. also who says fuck that much, like i say fuck a lot but good lord take it down a notch

also didn't like how they wrote davenport, he didn't seem slimy enough until near the very end

like some other people have said too, they gutted the anticapitalist themes of the podcast and i hate that they did away with such a big part of the show. i should've expected that from a show made by a massive multibillion dollar corporation, but still disappointing

i was really excited to see how they did the city/otherworld, but it wasn't all that interesting to me when they got there :/ like i guess making it the realm of a demon rather than a whole-ass other dimension ruled by the whims and conflicts of unknowable eldritch beings is gonna make the situation pretty different, but i was hoping for something a bit weirder than "looks like the regular world but sometimes the hallways go in loops and also your dead family is there"

they also took away like all of the mystery and weirdness of lmg, like they just kinda made it a Generic Business Company (i yelled at my tv when they said what the acronym stands for :/)

it looks like it's been pretty well-received so far so it's not unlikely that we'll get a second season -- how are they gonna do that?? if they do a season 2 i'll have absolutely no expectation for them to stick anywhere close to the podcast, they just didn't set things up in a way that it would work at all. like how would rat or the curator or like. any of it happen with the way they left it off

i did like seeing more of cassandra wall at least, i've thought she was an interesting character from the podcast so it was cool to get more of her

samuel was pretty good, they kept the creepy but charismatic vibes up with him pretty well i thought (wish he had still become a flesh abomination though :/ also him coming out of literally nowhere in the otherworld at the end felt kind of cheap, plus where did he go?? melody made it out but where is samuel, he was literally dragging her with him)

i LOVED jess, i wasn't expecting to but she ended up being my favorite character in the show

thank god they put ratty in, he didn't die too so that's a plus

yeah overall i think i would've liked it enough had i never heard the podcast, and i get why they made some of the changes they did in translation from the podcast to the show, but overall i feel like they overly simplified and watered down a really good story and rich worldbuilding for the sake of making it more widely appealing, and if they continue into a second season it's just going to depart further from the source material which is unfortunate because the second and third seasons of the podcast are SO GOOD

[touchmycoat]

Mido, I'm crying - you regularly delete such genius? I am reading the three different set ups to the mmf dp fic and CRYING because each of them is so good and I am hoping at some pt you decide to recycle because I am so greedy for more trans!SY getting the body she wants but STILL so oblivious to how much LQG and LBH want her. The last especially: LQG desperately pining for her but so respectfully NOT TOUCHING and LBH so petulant about the intimacy of dping SQQ.. that set up is amazing!

akdsjflkjsdnflajsndlf darling you are far too kind i'm all a-blush ///// yessss me too i love trans!SY!!! If I do run with it though hmmmm let's see, I feel like instead of "coming out" SY would orchestrate some major encounter with a super ultra rare monster and "get transformed irreversibly" into a woman, oh no, but haha good thing her dao emphasizes how harmful a rigid approach to identity is, and this is really just nature's way of teaching her how to bring her cultivation to the next level, ahahhahaha! She's a woman from now on everybody, just accept it! She has! This is pedagogy at work folks, what a great teacher she is!!

then her whole thing is like, "ah this old woman, LBH fucks a lot of more mature ladies in the original novel but surely the grumpy old teacher is out of the question." She is still totally a milf (just like in canon nfjdnfjd) and goes kind of overboard telling everyone that she gave birth to LBH from her own womb, okay? That is her actual literal baby boy, never mind she's only like 6, 7 years older than Binghe, she has ADOPTED. That's why she's so fucking oblivious, all like "fuck did I shoehorn myself into the evil stepmother role ;;; i don't want to be a tired cliche."

(Also huehanya recced me My Next Life As a Villainness a while ago which seems very relevant to this??? Which I obviously have to binge now??)

LQG is still a Fool™ when it comes to romance and we obviously need more misunderstandings in there—probably she thinks he's tragically pining after YQY or something while YQY is into the original goods and that's why LQG and SQQ used to hate each other so much. And LBH...is still traumatized. Deep, deep mommy issues but hey, since I just came down from a Tianlang-jun fic, maybe we'll have more explicit and weird parallels bt SY and SXY!! lmaaaaaoooooo as LBH fights TLJ SY's like "what kind of oedipus bullshit is this?!?!?"

[extreme-technicality]

does talking to an anon help about ninjago help? cuz I'm down

DHDKCKGSC YES IT DOES THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR OFFERING YOUR SERVICES

Okay now that I know I won’t be clogging people’s dashes buckle the fuck in my dude and I should stress that I literally would not be talking about this as much as I will be if I didn’t genuinely enjoy the show. I’m gonna go season by season and just Rant

S1 has the serpentine as the bbeg and like, as far as villains go they’re p lit. They’re early enough that they haven’t been done to hell, things are fresh, the characters and dynamics are being fleshed out, and all in all s1 is a pretty solid season. There’s some fuckery that gets brought up re: how the FUCK aging works and what the actual timeline of Ninjago is and how Wu and Garmadon fit into that timeline, fuckery that LITERALLY NEVER GETS RESOLVED IN A SATISFYING WAY BC ITS REVEALED IN A LATER SEASON (s8, dw we’ll get there lmao) THAT THE ONLY REASON THE FIRST SPINJITSU MASTER, WU, AND GARMADON LIVED AS LONG AS THEY DID IS CUZ THEYRE BASICALLY DEMIGODS AND ITS IMPLIED THAT LLOYD WILL ALSO LIVE FOR A LONG ASS TIME WHICH MEANS ONE DAY HES GONNA OUTLIVE ALL HIS FRIENDS AND EVERYONE HE EVER LOVED WHICH IS A FUN THING TO THINK ABOUT AT NIGHT But anyway I digress, s1 also coincidentally introduces Lloyd (he wasn’t in the pilot episodes that set up the rest of the series) and the existence of Evil Dad Garmadon.

S2 is where Garmadon starts acting a lot more Evil and a lot less Dad. He’s the main antagonist for that season, and I actually read somewhere that the show was originally slated to end after s2 which high key explains the fuckery of literally every single season after this lmaooooo. Much like s1, I really can’t find much to complain about, the first two seasons are pretty decent as far as I can remember

Season. Fucking. Three. Where the fuck do I start??? I hate season three for entirely personal reasons revolving around the STUPID GODDAMN ROMANCE WRITING. okay lemme back up and explain a thing first so, Jay is dating Nya and they’re fine, they’re going steady, aND THEN????? THE BEGINNING OF THE SEASON INTRODUCES BULLSHIT LOVE TRIANGLE FUCKERY FOR ZERO GODDAMN REASON, BITCH I HATE LOVE TRIANGLES AND I HATE THEM EVEN MORE WHEN THEYRE DONE FOR NO GODDAMN REASON!!! AND THEN. AS IF THAT WERENT ENOUGH. THEY SHOEHORNED A ROBOT ROMANCE BETWEEN ZANE AND PIXAL AND I KNOW I RANTED ABOUT THIS A LITTLE BIT WHEN I WAS ACTUALLY WATCHING BUT I DIDNT GO INTO ENOUGH DETAIL!!!! THEY MADE THE OTHER NINJA OOC IN ORDER TO PROP UP THEIR SHIP!!!!!! AND AT ONE POINT ZANE GOES “its like we were…made for each other” AND I HAD TO FUCUCJDHVE I HAD TO SCREAM INTO A PILLOW BRO, IM SO TIRED!!!! NO THE FUCK YOU WERENT!!!!!! YOU WERE MADE FOR YOU AND PIXAL WAS MADE FOR PIXAL AND IF YALLS WANNA BANG BOLTS THATS FINE BUT DONT IMPLY THAT EITHER OF YOU WERE MADE INCOMPLETE!!!! THATS AN INSULT TO YOUR MAKERS AND YOURSELVES, MOVE ON, PLEASE AND THANK YOU. anyway that season also killed Zane (for the first time, but not the last) (spoiler alert lmao) and like, not to be an emotional little shit but I did cry a bit at his funeral.

S4 is honestly one of my favorites, even though the romance crimes continue (the love triangle bullshit is continuing and honestly I maintain that Cole, Nya, and Jay should all have gotten together and in my personal canon they DID, and also Kai has a forced romance) the VILLAIN makes up for it imo. He’s campy!! He’s funny!! He’s a clown!! He’s serious enough that if he says “I’m gonna kill you” HE MEANS IT and that’s so fucking refreshing!!!! S4 is honestly 8/10 just for the villain alone, don’t like that it retconned the SHIT out of the elemental masters and how many different elements there are TO master but eh, it’s ninjago, shit is stupid.

S5 was…interesting? OH WAIT I FORGOT TO MENTION THAT S3 INTRODUCED A GARMADON WHO WAS A LOT LESS EVIL AND A LOT MORE DAD, HONESTLY I THOUGHT IT TOOK A LOT OF THE FLAVOR OUT BUT THATS JUST ME LMAOOO. anyway s5 killed Garmadon, and I was a little sad cuz I like him okay??? I just think he’s NEAT, he’s got big dad energy, he was teaching Lloyd some shit that just got DROPPED and literally was never brought up again which is honestly a theme in Ninjago. Ninjago drinking game: take a shot every time they introduce a plot point or ability and drop it at or before the end of the season. WHICH THEY ALSO DID IN S5 WITH A DIFFERENT POWER ACTUALLY, so all the ninja are masters of Spinjitsu right, well s5 introduced the concept of Airjitsu which only Spinjitsu masters can learn and it lets them FLY and they used that for seasons 5 and 6 and then they nEVER BROUGHT IT UP AGAIN EVEN THOUGH IT WOULDVE COME IN HANDY FOR S E V E R A L DIFFERENT SITUATIONS ACROSS THE SEASONS, ONE OF THEM WOULD BE FALLING TO THEIR DOOM AND MY ASS WOULD BE YELLING “YOU CAN FLY, DUMBASS” - anyway, they do that again later lmao it’s fine. But what’s low key NOT fine is they made Nya the WATER NINJA!!! Like I’m not mad she has powers, except I kinda am, she was doing just fine as Samurai X and honestly the only reason she has super special ninja powers is for plot reasons. Also Cole got turned into a ghost, but by s7 he’s????? No longer a ghost????????? And that’s NEVER addressed or reasoned away, so like. Cool lmao

S6 didn’t happen. Like, canonically, s6 ends with wish fuckery that undoes the entire season and none of the characters remember anything that happened except Jay and Nya because S6 is the season where they get back together so they remember all those events for???? Feelings reasons?????? Unclear, moving on. The actual bbeg for S6 was a djinn with a vaguely Spanish accent, and to this DAY I don’t know why they made him have a SPANISH accent. Djinn are Arabic, not Spanish!! They’re not central or South American, either!!!! Your villain design makes no sense, do better

S7 had MORE time fuckery, and retconned what happened to Kai and Nya’s parents and hmmmhmhmhmhmhm that makes me Upsetti Spaghetti :3 not just the retconning, but the fact that they LITERALLY brought them back oNLY TO NEVER MENTION THEM AGAIN!!!!!! LITERALLY!!!!!!!! Okay so at the VERY very beginning, like pilot episodes beginning, Kai talks about their dad like he died/left fairly recently, BUT s7 contradicts that and claims that both of their parents were essentially abducted when Kai and Nya were little kids, which makes me question what in the fresh fuck two little kids were doing for all those years alone. SETTING THAT ASIDE FOR A HOT SECOND, their parents were also apparently good friends of Wu’s and old war buddies (from the Serpentine wars, which is YET ANOTHER bit of the timeline that doesn’t quite add up but honestly I could make a whole other post about that shit). But if they were such good fucking friends, why didn’t Wu check in every now and again??? What the fuck was Wu doing that was so fucking important that he couldn’t have been assed to visit his friends ONCE in like TEN MOTHERFUCKING YEARS and realize “oh shit, they’re not here and there are two tiny children running around unsupervised…My Kids Now : )” LIKE????? WU YOU LOW KEY SHOULDA LOOKED OUT FOR YOUR FRIENDS’ KIDS BETTER, THEY COULDA DIED BRO!!! Uhhhh the time fuckery also results in Wu getting yeeted ahead in time a bit and the ninja gotta find him

Season. Eight. I have…mixed feelings about this one. The beginning absolutely SLAUGHTERED me, and not in a “this is so fucking funny” way. No, the beginning made me feel like I was being flayed alive with just about every episode because Ninjago was back on its forced romance bullshit and this time it was Lloyd’s turn on the chopping block. That hurt my soul cuz like, look at that mans color scheme, he’s CLEARLY alloaro, why are you forcing romance on my aro man, why would you hurt me like that, BUT ALSO BECAUSE HE AND THE GIRL HE WAS BEING SET UP WITH HAD A LITTLE HEART TO HEART REALLY EARLY ON AND IT WAS THE MOST QUEER CODED SHIT!!!! IT DEADASS READ AS A CONVERSATION BETWEEN AN OUT AND PROUD QUEER AND A CLOSETED QUEER AND THEY MADE!!! IT!!!!! STRAIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!! The only thing that kept me watching at first was wanting to find Wu, and then I started enjoying myself once Cole found a plot-relevant baby and had fatherhood thrust upon him. Everything went from “ehhhhh” to “holy shit this FUCKS” once it was revealed that Rumi (Lloyd’s love interest) wAS PLAYING HIM THE WHOLE TIME AND WAS EVIL AND HAD AN EVIL GIRLFRIEND!!!!!! LITERALLY IMPROVED EVERYTHING ABOUT THE SEASON FOR ME, I COULD EVEN FORGIVE THE WHOLE “let’s resurrect Garmadon, but as evil as possible” BULLSHIT!!!!!!

S9 is a continuation of s8, Garmadon is back and 1000% Evil, 10% Dad, but none of the Dad energies is directed at Lloyd - it’s all directed at Rumi, and honestly I could write a whole ass post on just RUMI cuz that’s honestly my DAUGHTER and I LOVE HER and I’m MAD SHE DIES AT THE END OF THIS SEASON!!!! SHE DESERVED THERAPY AND TO LIVE WITH HER GF AND MAYBE SOME CRIME. AS A TREAT. RUMI DESERVED BETTER AND LOW KEY IM GONNA WRITE A FIC ABOUT IT, BUT ANYWAY WHERE WAS I

Ah right, so s9 has the four major Ninja stuck in the original dimension with no way home, while Lloyd has no powers (cuz he almost died last season) and has to somehow lead a resistance against Garmadon (who has taken control of Ninjago City and is working on the rest of Ninjago). Actually, s9 is pretty cool. Like, the end of s8 and into s9 are low key my favorite episodes, and I kinda wanna rewatch them now -

S10 is a FUN one. Garmadon got got last season, but he didn’t DIE, so he’s in cold storage and now there’s Another Threat and he’s the only one who knows wtf they’re up against so they let him out and he works with them. The funny part is, he is still Very Much Evil and doesn’t quite Get emotions like he did when he was, uh, human lmao, sO HE WOKE UP EVERY DAY DURING THAT SEASON AND DECIDED TO CAUSE PROBLEMS ON PURPOSE. IT WAS THE FUNNIEST FUCKING SHIT. 1000000/10 MY FAVORITE GARMADON, he ended that season by literally fucking off into Ninjago and they never decided to track him down 😭😭😭😭😭and I’m so SAD about it dude

S11 has another Serpentine as the bbeg, though in the setup to that they retconned how the fucking Serpentine tribes and history work??? I think???? Also Wu was a good 150% angrier and generally Done with the ninja’s shit, which was honestly refreshing tho I’m not quite sure I liked what the refreshed view was, but whatever lmao. S11 also had the ninja get yeeted to the dimension farthest from Ninjago, and honestly - okay, so they didn’t all go at the same TIME, Zane left about a week or two before the others did but there was time dilation fuckery afoot which I’m not too mad about cuz low key it makes sense. What I AM mad about is that they didn’t play the angst up to its full POTENTIAL!!!!!! Zane was EVIL in the other dimension!!!! Okay so I’m Ninjago he was only gone for maybe a week or two, but DECADES had passed in the other one, and all that time Zane was alone and disconnected from everyone he knew and loved, with a staff that boosted his power while slowly corrupting him and Turning Him Evil to help him, and like???? The thought of Zane trying to find a way home, trying to get SOME sort of message back, while he has to use the staff more and more to help him survive the long, lonely decades, so that by the time his family DOES show up its too late??? BRO. B R O. THAT JUST HITS DIFFERENT, BUT NINJAGO DIDNT DO THAT!!! THEY MADE HIM EVIL DUE TO MEMORY WIPE!!!!!! MEMORY WIPE IS BABY SHIT COMPARED TO A LONG, SLOW CORRUPTION!!!!!!

S12 was alright. It went into Cole’s mom, touched on some of the adventures she had had, threatened another forced romance (this time on poor Cole, just leave my mans ALONE) but thankfully didn’t follow through this time, introduced cool new powers that honestly hasn’t been elaborated on since that’s the most recent season I think lmao

Anyway thanks for reading and letting me rant!!!! I have,,So Much More I could talk about, PLEASE ask me about Rumi, some of my headcanons re: Garmadon and Wu’s dynamic, the Serpentine, my top five times they butchered Kai’s character for Plot Reasons, or anything else I brought up here that you want me to elaborate on!!!

[statusquoergo]

Now *I'm* curious as to how you would write a genderswap! of both characters. What would be the differences? Would there be any at all? Sorry if you're getting tire of all the genderswap! questions, btw.

All these questions I’ve never thought about before! If Harvey and Mike were both women, huh? Well, taking for granted that the show would be helmed by people with much better sensitivity to gender dynamics and character development, and like, actual feminism and all that (e.g., strong female characters not being reduced to “domineering girlfriend” once they’re paired off with some guy)…

I have to believe Harvey’s character would start the show as a stereotypical woman making it in a man’s world. With Jessica as the managing partner and Harvey’s character as essentially her number two, the firm culture would probably be a little different if for no other reason than that they would have some kind of reputation in the legal community that required them to be twice as tough as any male-dominated firm (i.e., basically all of the other firms). Actually, if I recall correctly, most if not all of the other departments at PH were headed by men, so maybe it’s just the corporate division that has such a reputation; maybe that’s why they’re the most prominent in the firm, because they have the most to prove. Well, but that’s just background information, never mind.

So the interview. Mike’s character crashes the Chilton and spills pot all across the floor, and Harvey’s character…is vastly amused, I suspect, but why does she hire her? Boredom seems like kind of a silly reason, and while I think Harvey in canon hired Mike mainly to fuck with the status quo (and because Mike reminded him of himself, it’s all a rich tapestry), a female Harvey character probably wouldn’t have such a luxury. Maybe it would be more obvious from an early point that Harvey’s character felt some sort of protectiveness toward Mike’s; it might be interesting if, over the course of the series, we got some actual answers as to why Harvey’s character made the decision to hire her in the first place as opposed to the massive amount of guesswork we all do with canon.

With that opening number out of the way, how would their relationship develop differently? I should actually hope that it wouldn’t vary too much; I like the dynamic of Harvey being arrogant and secretive and Mike teaching him to be, you know, human. With both of them as women, I’m sure there would be some element of “you can be a powerful badass and still a beautiful lady” because, well, television, but if they could lean more toward the “powerful badass” half of that equation, that would be most excellent. Fundamentally I think the characters would have more permission, as it were, to form close personal relationships with one another; whereas Mike and Harvey in canon were portrayed as “buddies” for awhile there (or at least I think that’s what the writers were going for, the poor guys), two female characters forming an intimate relationship that’s not overtly sexual or romantic is far less taboo. And then, you know, they can progress from there; the combination of the superior/subordinate romance (very complicated) and the “she’s somehow become my best friend and also my confidant and also my mentor/protégé but I also want her to be something else” (very traditional) angles could certainly be played out in a lot of interesting ways. (A lot of really terrible ways, too, but I’m giving these fictional showrunners the benefit of the doubt.)

As before, when I discussed just one of them being made female, I think Donna and Rachel would have much bigger and more interesting roles in the show. The romantic tension between Donna and Harvey’s character would be eliminated and while I could see Rachel and Mike’s character trying to hook up (assuming the network would accept a pitch that included two non-heterosexual pairings, the very idea), I could also see that not happening, or at least not lasting once it becomes obvious that Mike’s character is interested in Harvey’s. I’d really like to see them as good friends, I think there’s a lot more mileage to be gotten out of that than Mike and Rachel’s relationship in canon. And this all opens the door quite wide for Donna to end up with Louis, which would also be a great avenue for his character to be developed a little more consistently. (Or a lot more consistently, just as you please.)

Overall I think it would afford more opportunity to include an actual emotional arc to the show rather than shoehorning in a bunch of obvious romantic sub-plots and the occasional parental death scene. And you know what I would love to see, on a purely self-serving level, is an episode with some asshole lawyer from some other firm, or like a judge or something, being a misogynistic shit to Mike’s character—you know, “You should smile more,” “Women should wear skirts in court,” that kind of fuckery—and then have her absolutely demolish him at trial or get him kicked off the bench. I would enjoy that very much. I mean it would have to be a difficult fight, he would be a talented lawyer and a powerful figure in his own right, but I think it could be a really neat “growth” episode for Mike’s character, and a good opportunity to demonstrate that she’s more than just a walking legal dictionary that would also fit neatly into the whole “badass woman” narrative the network would surely push every now and again.

Thank you for asking, I hope I answered to your satisfaction!

[roominthecastle]

i got super excited about alan's new show that you posted gifs of cuz he had chemistry with that girl but then i went on twitter and found out his character is gay and married... *sighs* i mean i'm still excited about the show but... their chemistry!!!

It really has that “shipper dream” setup, esp if you’re into age gap & teacher/student elements, yes, but I’m gonna be honest here:

my tired body is beyond ready for a fiercely platonic m/f dynamic of this level of snarky sweetness, teasing, mutual respect-building, and kickassery where the most frequently asked question about them is not “ok but… will they???” or “are they related??”, and the enjoyment of their relationship will not be undermined by what seems inevitable in fandoms these days: the fixation and fights about whether the show “canonizes” and legitimizes (often already solid) relationship building via sex or else “it’s for nothing” or sth “lesser”. Often writers feel this pressure and end up ruining things by shoehorning “expected romance” and not knowing what to do w/ it once it’s introduced. This friendship is already canon AF in the trailer and I cannot wait to see how it will grow and smash my tiny demon heart. And a gay male lead = hen’s tooth on network tv, so that’s another A++++ and is Lizzie even straight? We’ll see. They have amazing chemistry indeed, and not an ounce of that will be for nothing just bc romance/sex is out, of that I’m sure.

And I’m not putting you down here, anon. I get where you’re coming from. My eyes twinkle and my ears perk up whenever I smellpotential for age gap romance on TV bc a well-done one in main focus is rare, too, but I feel no disappointment here whatsoever, that’s what I’m trying to say. I’m confident we won’t be “shortchanged” in any way. I love my ships where romance colors things and/or sexuality seeps in to trip stuff up, but I’m also kinda starved for a “0 romantic/sexual angle” kinda deal to destroy me in the best way possible, so this show is a GODSEND.

[sapphicvevo]

I just don't want allura to be paired up with anyone tbh?? I'm tired of the "drop dead gorgeous" female characters always needing a love interest. I've never seen a pretty girl in any form of media that doesn't get shoehorned into a romantic subplot

i wouldn’t say that. it’s still important for black girls to be seen as romantic love interests and that’s still seen as revolutionary. i wouldn’t mind a romance for allura if it was done nicely, like with hunk or shay or another alien. allura deserves to feel pampered and loved and adored