#if I see any sort of proship or problematic or anti anti shit

[demonir]

There’s no fucking way I actually saw a spyscout shipper in the tf2 tag what the FUCK, BEGONE VILE BEAST!!!

Take this as a warning, if I see you ship spyscout I’m gonna end you

[proshippers-against-censorship]

I saw that one ask about being in a small fandom infested with antis and first of all, I felt that in my soul and want to express my solidarity. I need to vent about my small fandom because dear lord it's giving psychic damage seeing some people be so arrogant and far up their asses.

These people have all but driven any reasonable people off tumblr, onto other sites and y'know, these anti fucks COULD mind their own business and stay their asses on tumblr but NO. Few weeks ago saw one of them making a post about how they went purposefully on pinterest and other sites to LOOK FOR "proshit" content or whatever and did a detailed report on how quickly they found what of which character. Acting like that's a community service and their post was some sort of an important PSA or something. LMAO WHAT

And the peak of the audacity? I can't remember if it was the op or one of the commenters saying: "lol these are the websites proshitters go to hide" ... HIDE? Try: Post normally since they're not allowed to post on the same app as you! Like.. If someone is at home, are they hiding from you? Unhinged logic. These antis are unhinged. They drive people off platforms, but they don't stop. They'll purposefully go into spaces that aren't for them and actively hound on shit that upsets them. Entitled and I am so tired of them.

Just few days ago saw a post where someone griped about having shown the [piece of media] to their IRL classmate and the classmate ends up not only disliking a popular character in the anti fandom but also liking a ship that's considered wildly 'problematic' or whatever. This bitch really posting about their IRL friend on a site where people tell 'proshitters go kys'??? Thankfully no names or nothing were shared but that's still a shitty thing to do. The replies were pearl-clutchy as well. I don't trust the op to treat this friend very courteously, let's just say

I have to look at this shit on my dash because people I thought were reasonable are engaging with it. Idk if people just pretend to be antis to ward off harassers and keep their meager amount of followers, but this sucks ass HARD

"Hide" bitch we're loud and proud, stop going into the circus and claiming the clowns are hiding there and not chilling at home.

That's the problem on AO3 rn. It was created to host largely proship content, yet entitled ass antis seem to think the space was made for and should cater to them. They walk into our spaces while still yelling that we should make our own. It's like stomping into somebody's house and demanding that they find their own place to live.

[0pheleschimera0]

I am very glad that general public has moved past the need to identify themselves with either proship or antiship (i wonder if it has something to do with growing up? cuz when i was a teenager it was still everywhere even though im pretty much still around the same circles ive been like 4 years ago. we all grew up i guess LOL) because both communities are absolutely unnecessary vile and lack any sort of critical thinking skills or desire to listen to someone with differing opinion.

As much as it is going to be useless to try to explain to a hardcore proshipper that """shipping""" """"problematic"""" things is bad and harmful and it doesn't make a person explaining that to them a puritan it's just as useless to try to explain to a hardcore "anti" that shipping something unhealthy or being into "weird" kinks doesn't define person's moral standing or them as a person.

And by the last one i don't mean pedophilia or incest - it's specifically ships that are purposefully between people who are bad for each other. It always comes down to the way the person goes about such dynamics that you can judge for yourself whether you want anything to do with them. Cuz most of the time it's not that they think abuse is awesome, or unhealthy relationships are cute, it's just that sometimes someone doesn't give a shit about implications and whatnot and goes off of the surface level of understanding of that relationship and they decided for themself that its cute. But i digress.

It is honestly horrible to see adults so deep in their own ass trying to defend horrid behavior in spaces dedicated to kids, spread content actively harmful and putting children into the headspace where they can become an easy target for predators, and make it even harder to try to have the conversations with children about how it is harmful.

But it's foolish to try and think that both sides of this stupid internet war aren't batshit weird. Both spread outright lies about each other to make each other look bad for people who don't know any of this stuff. It's foolish to think that there aren't predators in the "anti" spaces. Predators will be everywhere, what we need to get our attention to is spreading information on how to recognize them and stay away from them, not that certain content or spaces will make kids more susceptible to becoming a victim.

In the end of the day you won't stop people from making horrible things, sadly. And what's even more disturbing is that for many years "anti" spaces has created an environment where making a mistake is equal to having your entire internet presence near dangerous and very psychologically draining. One think proshippers are right about and it's that "antis" aren't always exactly concerned about children but about upholding higher moral ground.

Not to get personal but it certainly didn't protect me from predators. It certainly didn't make me feel better about myself or feel safe or like i could grow as a person if i always say the "right" thing and would be too scared to misstep or i will be shunned from the internet.

Idk where im going with this actually. I guess what im trying to get at is think for yourself and learn from your mistakes and listen to people when they say how things harm them. It certainly helped me get out of the proshipper spaces and antishipper spaces eventually.

[hazbincalifornia]

(I’m pretty sure the way I type is recognizable but I need to like pretend at anonymity bc I feel. Remarkably silly about this)

I wanted to like idk rant to someone in the HB fandom who isn’t balls deep in the “anti proship” sphere bc like, I’ve been struggling w guilt over enjoying a certain ship that everyone hates and considers problematic (I think Loona and Octavia is rlly cute!) and I’d like to make content for it but I also rlly fear being seen as like a pedophile. Do u ever worry abt that kind of thing? And is there anyway ur able to get over it if u do? I don’t like getting into anti/anti anti discourse bc I feel like it’s a very reductive way to view and interpret media but I still have a crazy amount of worry/guilt

First off, it is still ridiculous to me that this is even a problem in this fandom. This is an adult show about characters in Hell, and the main characters are, respectively, assassins and the eclectic cast of the Hotel which includes a cannibal serial killer. (I am eternally both amused and completely baffled that like half the awful puritanical takes I see are from Val icons. Buddy. Pal. The fucked up fiction is coming from inside the house.) I saw waaaaay more fucked up shit on Zim nsfw twitter than I see on Hellaverse twitter and that show was Y7. Up your game, guys.

Personally, I don't really see Loona and Via as siblings/sisters as much as I think a lot of others do, more just friends (and honestly I think canon moved much too quickly to give them such a heartfelt scene together, they hadn't even met officially before that point?) so it's really only the age thing and even then, the plot of HB has seemed to imply that a fair amount of time has passed since the series started, probably around a year- so Via would be 18 or older by the time anything actually started anyway, especially if they became friends first. Setting aside the 'justification' though... they're not real. They're cute together, I agree, and I think you should be perfectly fine enjoying them just in the lens of 'they're similar, I like how they'd interact, and I think they're cute together'!

I was pretty much forged in my opinions about this from Invader Zim stuff, where people insisted that liking two characters that I'd liked together since I was thirteen made you a pedophile. Obviously, I could tell that wasn't true, because it had never been the case in all those years up to people starting to be bitchy about it in 2019. (Before that, it was that it was bad because it was enemies to lovers and, more importantly, gay. Great hater throne to inherit, guys!)

Unfortunately... as stupid as it is, this fandom is way more puritanical than it should be, so it wouldn't be wrong to engage through anonymity to protect yourself. Find the people in the tag who are using 'proship/proship interact' or something along those lines (I've seen a few, although some tend to lean more on hard/dead dove content), post on ao3 into the anonymous collection which removes your name, make a tumblr sideblog that doesn't connect to your main, find fellow shippers and interact with them specifically. Do whatever you need to do to keep yourself safe from people who can't understand that thinking something is cute or interesting to explore in fiction is automatically bad just because they don't like it. The more stuff that's put out there about the ship, the more likely you are to find kindred spirits, that's honestly part of how I gathered my mpreg weirdos to me in both this fandom and the last.

I'm pretty sure that the callout I got for Sunny was why several mutuals who were a friend group unfollowed (and likely muted) me on twitter. Unfortunately, it left me worrying that the other shoe was going to drop any day for about a week because it got just enough notes to make me worry but not enough to get to anyone with any real reach to spread and get it 'over with'.

At this point, I've sort of reached a state of 'fuck it', because if it happens, it happens. I know that I'm fine, and the people I genuinely care about know that too. I know that what I'm making is entirely separate from my morals as a person, if not from how dumb the IZ stuff was than from the fact that I was an English major. Literature is full of stuff that authors don't make as a 1:1 with their real-life morals! And the one you're thinking about isn't 'bad' comparatively at all.

I think the fandom is starting to see that being a dick about fictional content is bad through the backlash to Poison and 'hey, maybe telling somebody that they need to detail their trauma to the public to make fiction is bad?', but it seems to mostly be centered on dub/noncon, so I wouldn't necessarily hold my breath.

At the end of the day though, remember this: You, as a person, are completely fine, no matter what others might think. Octavia and Loona would probably be seen as a totally normal ship like ten years ago (except for people who'd be dicks about them being gay) and there is no judgement to be made on your character in any reasonable way for thinking they're a good ship. You're not a pedophile for thinking a fictional owl and hellhound look cute together, any more than I was for smacking together two Nicktoon characters, and frankly the IZ argument held slightly more water than 'the almost-18-year-old and the 22-year-old' because Zim's age was so ambigious. Try explaining this 'people think the young adult animals holding hands are bad' to any adult who isn't sucked into fandom discourse and they'd probably be baffled that it's a problem.

I know that the guilty feelings aren't always rational and it took a bit of time for me to unwind how I felt about creating certain stuff too, but try to remember that above all else- exploring things in fiction has been a thing people have done for a very, very long time. What matters is your actions towards other real people, not what you do with fictional dolls.

If nothing else, if you want you can always send me a dm and chat that way, I'd be happy to talk.

[fdq666roadie-blog]

that post u reblogged about antis… ur straight up weird bro. if u think being against pedophilia, incest, and abusive relationships (fictional or not, because fiction still has a heavy impact on real life and makes irl pedos and abusers think what theyre doing is fine) is some sort of solely american purity ‘trend’, ur seriously sick dude. why do you think any of that stuff is okay?? proshippers are gross, ur gross for supporting that shit

Being a proshipper doesn't mean I support those things IRL tho. Try to look up the actual definition of proshipping instead. Proshipping means you don't care what other people ship and you're agaisnt censorship. That is the actual definition.

Proshipping has nothing to do with shipping pedophilic content. That's some bullshit antishippers have been spreading around.

Less than two years ago, I testified in court against a pedophile, so don't tell me I support that when I know full well I don't. I've never written nor read any fics involving minors because I don't like that stuff. But I don't go around harassing those who do read and write it. That's what makes me a proshipper.

Calling everybody a pedophile is just watering down the severity of actual pedophilia. Instead of targeting someone who writes as a hobby, why not focus your energy on actual proven child molesters and actually do something to help victims instead?

And I do honestly belive the majority of antishippers are American people under the age of 25. I don't know why. Maybe because of the way sex is taught as something terrible over there in schools, if taught at all. I don't know. I'm not American.

And you say fiction heavily impacts real life. Give me some examples? I don't see any news articles about every single Game of Thrones fan suddenly engaging in incest or rape. I don't hear anything about horrormovie fans suddenly going on killing sprees after watching a movie at the cinema.

If you honestly believe reading a fic about rape will make you go out and rape someone, that means you're the one who has a problem. It means you believe you, yourself would do that. If you believe others would, then why not yourself? If you honestly believe that, then you should not be allowed to read or watch anything because you're the dangerous individual, not the person who wrote a fanfic.

Your logic doesn't make any sense, since there's countless of examples and research proving that plsying violent video games do not make a person violent. Watching movies that has teenagers engaging in any sexual activity does not make you a pedophile. So why is written content treated differently?

And howcome antis only go after no name fanfic writers who have a handfull of regular readers and not go after, say George RR Martin (who wrote a shit ton of incest and rape) or Stephen King (who wrote an orgy with pre-teen kids)? It's because your words wouldn't mean shit against an established writer, because everyone would just label you as a moron for trying to claim the author is a predator or sick individual. So instead, you go for the ones who don't have any way of defending themselves other than their own words.

That legit proves antishippers are nothing more than bullies, only choosing to target the ones they know they can harass without any consequences.

I've also seen antishippers who were all high and mightly on their pedestal condemning "problematic content" and then go right back to drawing or writing about monsters fucking human beings or worship their own favorite ship, who just happens to be a problematic ship. Apparently, it's only problematic if someone else creates something, not if they do it themselves. So to me, I see nothing else but bullying and hypocrasy.

You are fully allowed to dislike the content I make and the content others make, it's your right. But you do not have the right to police what they make or the right to bully them either.

You can call me disgusting and gross all you want, it doesn't make it true tho. So go ahead, keep living in your little bubble of hatred. I don't care, just try to realize, your perspective might not be the same as someone elses. Everyone are allowed to indulge in what they enjoy as long as no one is being harmed. And my stupid fics that are being read a few hundred times has harmed no one, so I really don't understand why you keep coming for me, but I guess you must live a really sad boring life if this is all you can spend your time doing.

[wettestwraith]

lmfao ofc you don't care about dream being a groomer. ur proshipper ass is into that type of shit LOOOL

In what world do you think I approve of grooming? and like i said, when the rumours first emerged I immediately believed the victims but I still did some digging and found that the story didn't exactly hold up the allegations and the proof had a lot of inconsistencies, there has been a lot of essays made on this matter already so my ADHD brain doesn't want to make one on this scandal. This is kind of why the scandal didn't really take off, it just wasn't substantial enough.

Secondly, while I am proship friendly, I'm not a proshipper myself, actually I'm not even that much of a shipper. I was an anti for a while too because I found those kinds of ships disgusting, but when I saw the treatment that antis had towards proshippers, I didn't want to align with them anymore. Especially when AO3 had that whole Tiffany G thing going on. A lot of proshippers actually know that their content isn't morally right, they know that in real life that sorts of things wouldn't be okay. While sure content containing problematic shit can desensitize people and even make them unempathetic when those sorts of things happen in real life, that doesn't mean that kind of content should be forbidden or banned or whatever.

I'm not in the mood to educate you in this matter because quite frankly I see anons like you are afraid of being corrected and I don't want to entertain people like you any longer, so you can go to @/spite-and-waffles and see the posts they made and reblogged about proshipping and how antis are actually more fucking annoying and problematic than proshippers bc antis actually put more content that I am uncomfortable with on my dash than proshippers do bc antis don't know and don't want to know how to filter their feed while a lot of proshippers actually try and make sure their content isn't easy to come by

[sweetrays]

About me: 

Just call me by my username I don't like using real names anymore

(bisexual transsexual male & 2 yrs on T) 

I write novels, short stories, and fanfiction

I draw novel illustrations and favorite characters

I'm autistic and therefore can be perceived  a little bit strange 

My dominant special interest fandom wise is Peter Pan stories. (Hook is my absolute favourite Peter Pan movie. You'll mostly see me talking about the character Rufio) 

I liked OUAT Peter Pan for a little while last year but it's not my thing anymore 

My other special interest is historical (mostly 19th century) fashion

A quick heads up:

I enjoy NSFW art, but I don't post any. There might be some reblogging of that here occasionally. 

A lot of the fanfictions I post are openly based off- have some sort of connection to my somewhat disturbing fetishes that involve characters dying or being hurt

I know some might not be comfortable with that.

If you'd like to be my friend please just skim through the readmore just in case you find my opinions distasteful. If you do, just block me I don't want trouble

My Internet Discourse Opinions

Stupid but very important in order to avoid ugly confrontations nowadays 🙁

"Proshipping" 

-the good pure holy shipping vs. icky yucky nasty evil creepy freak shipping stuff is bullshit. If you give me/a mutual shit over FICTIONAL ship your ass is getting blocked cause that's just a whole nother level of ridiculous. I do not condone the bullying and harassment that is so common in 'woke' fandom culture nowadays. It is disgusting that people are throwing around paraphilic accusations and words like p**o at innocent fanfiction authors who are just enjoying characters with no real malicious intentions. 

I come across ships on ao3 that absolutely disgust me on a day to day basis, even so, the last thing I'd want to do is be mean to the author/anyone who enjoyed that ship. That's because the author has just as much a right to write about just as I have the right to be uncomfortable. No character ship is illegal and people are allowed to be as gross or weird as they like as long as it remains fictional (which in 99.99% of cases no one is actively trying to encourage and/or normalising pairing that would be illegal irl) That's never how fandom, art, or fiction has ever worked. If you think otherwise, all I'm saying is you have some serious issues and you need help. 

When I write an age gap pairing I don't parade my fic around going "EVERYBODY START DATING YOUR FATHER!!" I tag with many warnings to avoid upsetting people who would be opposed to reading it + add a disclaimer explaining how I do not support such things in real life situations because I don't and neither does anyone else who ships 'problematic' things. 

Transgender discourse (neopronouns, etc) 

As a transgender male myself, I don't care what pronouns someone uses or what gender they claim to be. I am pro-block anti-harassment when I see someone I disagree with. 

However, I do block quite liberally when I see people saying that transgenderism is possible without dysphoria. Because it is not. Being trans is not a choice. Dysphoria is the cause of being trans. Even if it's just a tiny bit of dysphoria you are still valid. If you're a feminine presenting trans male, that is fine, if you're a masculine presenting trans female, that's fine too because even if you're trans you absolutely do not have to abide by society's confining gender stereotypes. 

But, if you are feminine presenting non-dysphoric afab going by he/him or a masculine presenting non-dysphoric amab going by she/her. That is not transgender. You just picked different pronouns. Which again, I don't care about the pronouns thing so whatever, but just please don't call that transgender because my brother in Christ, we are not the same. 

Therefore please leave me alone if: 

You have some sort of weirdly obsessive morality/legality bias against people minding their own business with character shipping in fandom

OR

Think that being trans is a choice. 

Thats all, have a nice day. Don't forget to block if you don't like me lol.

[chagrin-roses]

I’m tired of antis misinterpreting media especially fucking BANANA FISH

Banana Fish Spoilers under the cut, please read at ur own risk (also mentions of SA and rape)

I came across this, and at first, I understood the annoyance, but then I look at everything else and then realized how terribly they misinterpreted Ash’s character.

I wanna preface this by saying: You are absolutely allowed to have headcanons, and you are 100% valid for controlling your online experience. You are allowed to have discomforts. I’m not shitting on anyone who doesn’t like seeing Ash depicted in any sort of sexual act or situation, regardless of the context/who he is depicted with. But your own discomforts/opinions about a FICTIONAL piece of media aren’t definitive rules/must-beliefs in regard to fandom especially. We all enjoy media differently

But that’s all, what should be, common sense. But I wanna talk about how these people could not only misinterpret Ash Lynx’s character, but the story as well.

First of all: Ash is NOT Gay, he is canonically bisexual, as stated by the creator (but also shown in the manga/anime). It is also worth noting that the people in the comments were stating that Ash is asexual(I’ll go into why this is wrong in this context, but headcanoning him as acespec isn’t the problem here)

As you can see, Ash canonically identifies as bisexual, and this image also implies, that Ash has/would engage in consensual sexual intercourse.

Some other things I wanna clarify:

- Ace ≠ SA Victim (and vice versa)

- Ace ≠ No sex/sexual attraction whatsoever

- SA Victim ≠ Inability to have healthy sexual relationships

Not only do the above screenshots show that people have a terrible concept of Asexuality as a whole, but also how trauma, and SA can impact a person. Everyone’s experiences with anything varies.

Asexuality is a spectrum. Sometimes being a SA victim and being Ace have no correlations between eachother, sometimes they do.

I also wanna note how hypocritical these antis are for using the cop out excuse of “(character) is ace!” to not depict a character a certain way, yet tell people who like certain themes in a FICTIONAL context (problematic ships, media, etc) who identify as ace are just saying that to hide the fact they are a pedophile or something.

Me and many others who identify as ace and happen to be proship/anti harassment/etc have been told we aren’t actually ace and are actually just creeps. Yet, antis jump on the (in this case not canonically stated whatsoever) “Ash is ace so you can’t sexualize him/depict him in (xyz) way!” as a excuse to push not only their purity culture agenda, but once again, this is a prime example of how people force their opinions to police everyone else and treat it like they’re laws.

Also, another excuse of “Ash is a minor! 😡” was used here which, once again, it’s fiction and two, Ash literally turns 18 during the events of the story, so if you are so worried about the safety of a character that isn’t real, it’s a dumb and ignorant excuse anyways .

I also think the general misinterpretation of not only Banana Fish as a whole, but more specifically Ash, is so incredibly present here.

Regardless of how you decide to interpret/headcanon Ash, doesn’t mean you have to force that on someone else. Fandom, and fiction, should be something enjoyable, not stressful.

And one more thing, if you can't deal with talk about certain subject matter that is depicted in the form of media itself, then maybe you shouldn't be consuming it in the first place :/

Grow up, curate your own online experience, and don't ruin something for someone else just because you're a whiny bitch who doesn't know what the block button is.

[coolfire333]

Not to post discourse but *posts discourse*

Tldr; "proshippers" piss off and touch grass you are GROSS I do not welcome you here AT ALL, "antishippers" please learn to be respectful of "weird/morally questionable/toxic" but otherwise "legal" ships and have media nuance you are on thin ice dude JUST BE KIND TO PEOPLE AND BLOCK (/REPORT WHEN APPLICABLE), DON'T HARASS

Ok I seriously hate the lack of nuance in modern fandom re: shipping discourse

Granted I was not online until 2016 when I first made my tumblr so I only got remnants of the untagged "wild west" of the internet but I truly feel as if I've seen some of the worst when it comes to shipping discourse

Like I'm actually worried that I'm gonna get burnt at the stake for liking a boss/employee age difference ship because of the questionable power dynamics that come with it even though there's nothing else "wrong" with the ship the way I wanna depict it. Like god I wanna explore that ship more in art/writing despite knowing that it's questionable but I've already got told to kill myself once over my writings (don't even know why that happened tbh) and I really don't want to have that happen again

But I also don't want people to see that I ship something like that and think that I'm proshipper-friendly, anyone who earnestly uses that label 9.9 times outta 10 is just an absolute creep who hides behind the "it's fiction :)" excuse to romanticize pedo/incest/noncon stuff which is NASTY like you realize how chronically online you have to be to think that's remotely ok or normal to most people

And the earnestly "anti-ship" side is so bad too like jesus christ I can't even fully align myself with them either!! Like I swear to god they'll see a ship with a 20 year old and a 30 year old and think that 10-year age gap is inherently problematic and that depicting dark content is Bad even if it's not even being romanticized and they're WAY to eager to harass people over stuff that literally doesn't matter

I swear to god some of these people need to retake english class or any other sort of media analysis class because oh my god depiction is not always normalization/romanticization!!! But the second you start to say that a bunch of absolute CREEPS begin crawling out of the woodwork to defend your points like no dude piss off I know you're whacking it to morally depraved pornography in your spare time and trying to pass it off as "normal fantasies" YUCK!!!

The staunch antishippers will assume you're proship if you don't want to use either label and the proshippers will do the exact same thing like "yeah sure no label but you're one of us right ;)" NO!!!!!!!!!! I literally do not want to be associated with either side they are both cesspools and the antiship side is only better if you ignore the rampant harassment and intimidation tactics and undeserved callouts

Literally go touch grass and leave me alone both of you I really do not want to receive more suicide bait or any death threats over wanting fictional characters to kiss each other or hold hands or, yes, even (consentually) fuck nasty even if it's morally questionable but I swear to god if you're so much as turning your head to people outwrite getting off to depraved shit romanticizing pedo/incest/noncon like "hmmm it's fiction, doesn't bother me if other people do it" then you are VILE

But don't go out harassing people who like nasty stuff just block them and make sure not to let them enter your space jesus it's literally THAT EASY

[sashannarcy]

gotta ask why you grouped dsmp fans with proshippers in that dni. i don't see how proshippers are on the same level as people who like a minecraft smp. i understand that some people don't like certain fandoms or aren't fans of things, but idk it just feels... something is off there /nm

they don't have any correlation w each other, and my implication was not to group them together. they're just two groups of people who absolutely hijacked my post and I found that to be unacceptable because yes, while proshipping can arguably be considered worse than dsmp fans, it is like. not good that people are supporting a fandom that revolves around Bad, bigoted people. listen, this isn't me being like "boohoo dsmp personally annoys me and I don't want this fandom interacting!" the livestreamers who are in dsmp are racist, anti-semitic, make grooming/age of consent jokes while knowing that their fanbase is mostly made up of minors, vehemently defend being able to say the r slur, etc.

please, I am fucking begging people to just REALIZE that I am not some petty individual who is trying to dictate fandom spaces and who is so "annoyed" by certain fandoms that I tell them to dni. I'm not that sensitive. I wouldn't tell people to fuck off my post if it wasn't for a HIGHLY good reason. here is a link to a Google doc containing a compilation of very questionable and shitty things that Dream and his friends have publicly done. I am very anti dsmp bc this sort of thing is disgusting and gross and it boggles my mind that their fans are so fucking entrenched in their little mcyt roleplay that they can't take accountability for the fact that they're giving these pieces of shit a platform and just step away.

if you like and support dsmp [and are aware of all this problematic shit, though really you fucking should be considering problems w them happen SO goddamn often], you're telling me directly that you don't mind the things these people have said and done; you're telling me that you're coming from a place of privilege where their comments and actions just don't bother you because they're not targeted towards you, OR you literally just don't fucking care. and that means I don't want you around. hope this can clear some things up.

[kuromichad]

like tbh at this point i think the general sort of Anti Movement has accomplished basically all it’s ever going to and maybe it’s time to like. not ‘calm down’ as in ‘i’m condescendingly telling you not to be upset that abusive/exploitative content exists’ but just like... at least... stop actively hunting for it!!! stop making it such a huge part of your identity and what you do online!!! stop lying your way into people’s private accounts and servers just so you can spread around the content that they obviously know is not something that should be spread around??? like it just does not have to be this way... 

the thing that i wanted to accomplish when i was actively identifying as an anti, the whole reason i started being that way, is that at the time 5+ years ago fandom culture was still extremely “always be nice, never ever criticize or ‘shame’ anything, we’re all oppressed loner geeks here and being ‘mean’ to each other would be the worst social crime possible, worse than racism, worse than anything!!! boo hoo hoo!!!” and THAT is what created a really unhealthy passively-grooming environment. because expressing discomfort with things it’s literally normal to be uncomfortable with was met with “how dare you be shaming people, you’re a bad person.” 

there wasn’t the same kind of content warning culture we have now, the edgy problematic shipping was literally just mixed in with everything else, people would presume comfort with all sorts of subjects and bring up edgy shit unprompted in response to non-edgy works. that’s the kind of shit that creates normalization, that’s what i grew up with: “i hope ron and hermione will be married with babies in the epilogue <3” and “it would be hot if snape sexually abused harry <3” were literally both just What Shipping Is and there were too many spaces where they were talked about side by side. the casual attitude was what was actively dangerous and unhealthy. 

things are a lot fucking different than they were 5, 10, 15 years ago now!! there’s CONSTANT discussion of which subjects are harmful and why, there’s well-understood pressure to tag and warn for things, a lot of nsfw fandom accounts actively block any minors they encounter. there’s like, an actual divide now between ‘normal’ shipping and nsfw content and ‘problematic’ content. wahoo we won!! literally just this amount of separation wouldve resolved massive chunks of what was bad for me and so many others as a kid/teenager in fandom! 

but like i have to be honest bro a lot of antis are on a fucking power trip and they dont want to stop getting that constant reward of righteous anger being validated. it was obvious to me like, immediately, only a few months into me being actively an anti i would see people all over who would parrot talking points without actually understanding them, invent new ‘rules’ tailored to ridiculously specific situations so they could ‘call out’ a person or ship they didnt like for petty reasons, arbitrarily enforce standards based on their own preferences... not everyone is righteous, not everyone is a wounded person trying to protect others. a whole fucking lot of antis are just people who love the thrill of Being Right at all costs. (and like, obviously also a lot of proshippers/anti-antis are just people who love being contrary, edgy, obnoxious. i’m not like coming out as anti-anti here i’m just expressing frustration with the side i’ve been involved in.) 

and i just think it’s getting really fucked up and overboard and awful that people are so addicted to this War they think theyre in, and Being Right, being the Safe and Righteous ones, that they have to constantly escalate the dialogue and make everything so absolutely fucking urgent and awful, it’s not fun enough to have a thoughtful discussion about how tropes in media (even fan-created media, because fandom can encompass literal millions of people, and you literally spend more time socializing in fandom + consuming fanworks than you ever would just straight up rewatching/rereading the source material over and over) can contribute to abusive and exploitative relationships irl, what’s fun is the adrenaline rush of calling someone a literal pedophile over suggestive art of an anime 17 year old (with the same face and body of another character that’s 25, and another character that’s 13, and another that’s 21, etc etc), what’s fun is self-righteously insisting that the fandom term made up to say “i don’t care that you think reylo is destroying society” is actually a secret code name for “out and proud literal irl pedophile.” it’s fucking absurd. i’m so sick of it dude you’re not helping anyone. 

we are so, so, so far past doing anything actually helpful for protecting kids from media they’re not ready for and people who aren’t safe for them. if anything i think it’s just its own new brand of deeply unhealthy to constantly be going LOOK, look over there, inside that locked account, there are horrors i’m going to describe to you in great detail, and that person is a bogeyman who wants to hurt YOU, personally, you the 14 year old reading this callout, you are never safe, even when people are purposely locking their accounts to keep you safe from the content they acknowledge is triggering to people, those people are deeply inherently sinful and evil and they are GOING to hurt you, look at the evidence right now, they’re hurting you. like. anti culture is sick, it’s decaying and poisoned and fucking obnoxious. i’m not saying that that means all proship people are perfectly innocent or morally in the right or whatever but i find it acutely more upsetting when the side that’s claiming to be all about Protecting The Children and being the ones that are morally good is behaving fucking absurdly and escalating conflicts on purpose. trying to shock people into agreeing with you by throwing out the word Pedophile every five seconds is not the fucking way to do things. cut it out.

[theharlotofferelden]

I've been mostly AWOL last month just because I didn't/still don't have the spoons to properly engage on here. Part of it has been due to personal reasons, but I've also been keeping up with a number of discourses on here that have just been sapping my energy mainly because:

it is very easy to just mind your own business and curate your online experience to your liking instead of policing others and putting negativity out into the world.

Mainly talking about this in terms of anti/proshipping discourse because it seems to me that most antis don't want a discussion or don't want to listen to the points others have brought up about the difficulty of trying to regulate fanworks because it's not so simple as banning problematic works; it's about individually judging and screening the kind of fanworks that gets posted, which logistically isn't feasible considering how many works are hosted on AO3 alone, but also ignores the fact that even if such a thing was possible, people would find a way to post those works anyway.

So if this is a thing outside of our control, what can we do that's within our power? Follow the right people, filter tags, and pay attention to the kinds of works you're consuming, and if you encounter someone who is a danger to you, you're well within your right to block them.

This is all pretty standard practice for anyone navigating the internet, but we have folks worrying about other peoples kids being exposed to adult content and/or being preyed upon by adults online. And while those concerns are valid, the people who are advocating for those kids aren't moderators on this website or even AO3, and really have no direct way of impacting what kids do/don't see online outside of their push for banning certain works.

This also completely disregards what measures parents are already taking with monitoring their kids online usage, or the fact that these kids can pretty much be exposed to other adult content outside of tumblr or AO3.

Like, the idea that fan spaces need to be sanitized (even in adult fandoms) on the offchance a kid will stumble upon adult content of their favorite tv show is presumptuous of what measures their guardians are taking, and asinine in the face of the broader internet.

And like, again, these people don't work for tumblr or AO3; they have no obligation or responsibility to try and regulate content on here. If they really cared about better moderation, they would focus their efforts towards tumblr staff instead of targeting individuals on here. Because arguably, tumblr is more responsible for allowing such content to be hosted on here. So wouldn't it make sense to push for better regulation, or better functions on this website to ensure fandom has the walls it needs to function?

But again, disregarding all of that: this shit is just plain exhausting and I honestly think most of the young adults (the 17-25 yr olds) are going to look back on the time they spent on here as a big waste of time. Mainly because there's no realistic way to actually solve this issue because people will do what they want regardless of the fanpol panopticon.

And speaking personally, while I understand the issue and empathize to some degree with the folks advocating for this stuff, it honestly feels like a whole bunch of hot air over what is basically someone playing with paper dolls.

This discourse has no direct impact on my life outside of whatever content I choose to put on here. Half the time, I'm not even on here in any meaningful capacity or trying to engage with this nonsense because the communities that are personally invested in these sorts of arguments are completely insular echo chambers who don't care about the nuance of the situation or how this affects other people who are just minding their own business. This discourse isn't productive. It's a negative time waster for people who are in the business of casting judgement upon others, and I don't want a part in any of that.

I've spent the last 6-7 years trying to unlearn making assumptions about other people based on whatever outside factors are present specifically because I am not privy to their private lives and don't know what may be going on that I'm not aware about. It also just plain isn't my business, and if I honestly don't like thinking negatively of others because it's not worth my time or energy. I would rather spend that time doing something I enjoy and focus on myself in a way that benefits me.

It's hard and I don't always succeed at this, but I personally find it's benefited me in a lot of ways. Practicing disengaging from things that upsets you is a skill I think everyone should learn, especially in cases like this where the things you care about are outside of your control.

In any case, I'm going to limit/cease with talking about this any more because I think I've said enough on it already, and understand more than I care to about it.