#interpret the characters' motivations

[scorndotexe]

i just saw someone calling scorn a creepypasta i think it's time to start killing

[stardust-falling]

Having more thoughts about Shen Jiu because of course I am.

I don’t think he has the capacity for empathy or genuine selflessness.

He spent the entirety of his formative years deep in survival mode, and because of that, he evaluates people solely based off of how they might threaten or ensure his safety and/or comfort. As far as individual people themselves with their own perspectives… honestly I don’t think he even thinks of that.

Maybe a controversial opinion, but I don’t think even YQY is exempt.

Shen Jiu doesn’t have a moral code. When every day is spent on surviving, a moral code is a luxury.

And really, he just never got out of that mode. See, the thing is, once you’ve had enough adverse experiences it only takes a little bit to trigger you back into that mindset. Shen Jiu was used to being scolded and then beaten or abused, so for him, even a simple chiding is a precursor to abuse— even if he DOES recognize that nothing more will happen, his body and mental patterns will still go into that preparation time.

So of course he never left survival mode, because even if nothing is actively happening, your mind will keep reinforcing those patterns.

For someone with a normal upbringing, as far as I can tell, empathy is something you learn and develop from those around you. Many seem to think it’s something innate and natural and if you don’t have it then there’s something wrong with you from birth. I think Shen Jiu falls into exactly this category of thought— and so he doesn’t even consider that he could try to learn and develop it as a skill he can perform, even if it doesn’t come naturally.

Of course, would he even try? He hasn’t been given any incentive. Any time he has tried to do something good, he ends up getting hurt (saving Yue Qi leading to being taken by QJL) or misinterpreted and admonished (the well ghost incident, keep in mind my earlier point about scoldings perpetuating the same patterns).

So he stays in that same vicious cycle, perpetually in survival mode and unable to escape, even in a relatively secure position (see: his paranoia).

Now, this is all relevant to the discussions of SJ’s feminism, misogyny, and/or lack thereof. I feel like a lot of discussions aren’t really getting the full picture.

SJ sees people, no matter who they are, as solely how they can affect him. Just because this isn’t exclusive to women, or because if comes from a reasonable place, does that really mean it doesn’t play into misogyny?

Let’s take another angle.

I think his abuse of LBH and other talented disciples also is rooted, deep down, in this same issue. He’s not just hurting LBH only to hurt him, his aim is specifically to stunt his cultivation. There’s jealousy at play there of course, but there’s a bit more layers to it too— SJ doesn’t think he’s capable of goodness. So reasonably, he’ll be a bad teacher. He already knows what happens when someone becomes more powerful than their oppressor. LBH may be a child now, but a part of SJ whether he acknowledges it or not sees him as a future threat that needs to be treated as such.

It’s rooted in fear— because everything is with SJ.

So does that mean it’s not actually abuse?

No. The behaviors he shows are still abusive, the reasoning just gives a lens for understanding.

Now, with his views on women— I mentioned in the tags of my original post that I don’t think he views women as people. This is based in that earlier idea of how he interprets others based off their risk and benefit to him. For women specifically, though, there’s another layer.

Shen Jiu grew up in a society where women are inherently lesser— and he grew up in an extreme version of this. He saw women being treated as property firsthand(both as slaves, as well as QJL’s views on his sister). Your worldview is shaped by the world that you view during those early years. Whether he agreed or not, SJ would still take on the patterns of his environment. This, though, is just the same as general societal misogyny and ingrained bias. I don’t think he’s any different than anyone else in this way.

But where SJ’s particular flavor comes in is that to him, women are a source of comfort. For various reasons— positive past experiences, less threatening (or at least don’t carry the dangers men do). He craves comfort— needs it really, because he doesn’t get it and his cortisol levels are always so high they’re poisoning his body. Women are the best source of that comfort for him.

It’s not that he likes them— at least, not any more than someone would like drinking water, or a coat in the winter. They’re fulfilling a survival need for him.

That is what the objectification is where SJ is concerned.

So… is it misogyny?

I’d say yes, in a way it still is. It’s not violent, and it doesn’t come from some inherent sense of “superiority as a man” but at the core of it all, he’s still not viewing women as people, and he has no interest in changing the status quo, because it benefits him to be able to go purchase comfort at a pleasure house, even if it’s not what people usually do there. The picture is bigger than just misogyny, but the traits taken as themselves are misogynistic nonetheless.

I could go into his specific relationships with women and how that informs his character, but this post is already long enough. We know that he mentally divides people by sex, and that distinction has a lot of weight in his judgment of them. Even if it comes from a place of trauma, even if it comes from a general worldview that applies to everyone, he still views women as a commodity— so on some level, and from an outside perspective, he is misogynistic.

In the end, though, it still all comes from him being stuck in survival mode. His lack of empathy, his viewing others as risks and benefits— these things themselves aren’t moral failings— it’s just a consequence of his environment. He’s a bad person because he won’t confront this, develop a moral code, and act on it, not because he doesn’t experience empathy.

But in his circumstance, there’s not really a chance for him to choose to be good. Because he’s still trying to survive, and goodness is a luxury he doesn’t realize he can afford now.

He’s scum, but pitiful, you know?

[aroanthy]

i love how fraught and complicated discourse around various utena characters ‘dying’ is when anthy is literally stabbed to death eternally by a million swords imbued with human hatred. and then utena gets stabbed to death by them also. like. ‘death’ is incredibly interesting in rgu because most of the time it’s this ambiguous figurative thing that has interesting implications re: ohtori as a closed-off world one can escape. we are all trapped in our coffins. mamiya is the only named character with a grave. nemuro memorial hall functions as one all the same. ruka is implied to have died in the hospital— was he dead all along? who was the boy we saw for these two episodes? is this dead boy the same boy, or is this just another coincidence from the shadow girls, cutting like a knife? it’s heavily implied that akio and anthy murder kanae by poisoning her, adding to the previous implication that they were poisoning mr ohtori too, but there are no perceptible consequences of this. kanae’s absence is not felt. she’s fed an apple slice. what happens to the bodies? we know what happened to the 100 boys, but what about everyone else? and so on and so forth. ‘death’ is a tricky thing in utena, i think it’s constantly functioning on figurative and literal levels in very different ways for very different purposes. dios died. dios was dying. dios didn’t die. he grew up. etc etc

[painted-bees]

Raf self actualizing into being his own actual person rather than a rigid and constructed persona forced upon him by others Vs. Margie learning how to construct a persona after being burned and hurt in the past by being unable to hide what people see as flaws so she can present herself with confidence for the world to judge Vs. Cortes learning the complex social dance these silly little monkey do to attempt to survive in a world alien to her and showing them how the greater universe is much simpler and larger than they make it seem with their anxieties.

Is this Anything????

[dennisboobs]

some of you should not speak on dennis until you've rewatched sunny in full instead of just the macden-centric eps.

[lollytea]

I am just as nitpicky as anybody else when it comes to characters I'm obsessed with. But I don't find people who mischaracterize them nearly as annoying as people who write condescending posts about others who mischaracterize them which seem more motivated by feeding their own superiority complex about Being The One Person to Understand Mr Blorbo rather than giving any constructive advice.

[doubleedgemode]

I was listening to Slipping Through My Fingers and felt inspired to draw stuff about A.B.A and her creator... See, the "creator Paracelsus listened to A.B.A's namesake group while creating her and left their music in Frasco" is a joke headcanon of mine but of COURSE I could make it angsty, why not.

Yeah, we don't have a design or much data about A.B.A's creator but I wanted to give it a try. Honestly, I am not set in a design or story of my own, (not even the gender... Did we get confirmation the creator's a guy? Felt like going with one for this) but I went with slightly basing his appearance off the real life Paracelsus, especially off the portrait by Augustin Hirschvogel, though my take on the creator is not supposed to be the gg equiv of the real alchemist. (Note to self, I gotta practice how to draw double chins in side profiles).

I don't fully know what's his deal nor what are A.B.A's full opinion about him, nor does she, either... I imagine that due to her upbringing, it's complicated, and so would be a reunion. But, for sure, there would be plenty of feelings in her end. :')

[homielander]

the most interesting character detail about maeve through which i have extrapolated at least half my understanding of her is that she prefers to be called maeve. i frequently see "maggie" pop up in meta and fic as her chosen name, but quite literally nobody calls her that, including (and most significantly) elena. elena is maeve's tether to her humanity and her refuge away from vought, yet even elena only ever refers to her as maeve. (and in season 2, we learn that maeve started dating elena before she joined the seven -- before queen maeve's popularity would have become so inescapable that she would feel compelled to introduce herself by that name.) it's especially notable that in her final scene, maeve refers to starlight as annie for only the second time, but she is still called maeve by both annie and elena.

here's what we know about maeve's life as maggie: she had a rocky relationship with her father whom she doesn't seem to speak to anymore, she's from a "cousin-fucker hick town" as described by homelander -- i can't imagine this place being terribly lgbt-friendly, and she generally lacks connection with anyone she would have known before becoming queen maeve. she doesn't have fond memories of this time of her life, and perhaps that extends to all associations with it, including the name maggie.

i tend to think that becoming queen maeve was, in many ways, self-actualizing for her. the act that garners her national attention and earns her a ticket to vought is a heroic one -- she breaks every single bone in her right arm to save a school bus from falling off a bridge. and i know madelyn says she is responsible for the mythos of queen maeve, but this character was still aspirational, and likely someone maeve wanted to live up to. in any case, this new identity gave her a purpose and tools to achieve it: she wanted to help people! by her own admission, maeve enters vought bright-eyed and hopeful, not far off from annie. (maeve is also one of the only supes in the seven not to know about compound v -- she doesn't strike me as religious but believing she's among the very few born with powers would have strengthened her internal drive to be a hero.)

it's for the same reason that i think maeve actually... liked having powers? of course she says otherwise in her last season, but season 3 maeve is cynical and weary from about two decades of dealing with vought and homelander's abuse. they've used her first as the token woman and then the token gay person of the seven. after growing largely passive to the brutality of the job, the flight 37 incident forces her to confront all of the violence she's witnessed and tolerated. she's given pieces of herself away and she loathes the husk of herself that's left. i don't find it surprising that she would want to relinquish every single connection to vought, including her powers.

assuring herself that she will be better off without her powers comes with an added benefit: she gets to distinguish herself from homelander, who would be lost without his powers. and i think she is eager to make this distinction in her mind because there are some uncomfortable similarities between their initiations into vought. the mantle of homelander allows him to exert agency for the first time in his life, just as the mantle of queen maeve endows her with purpose for the first time in hers. (crucially, none of his current circle call him john, either.) they both enjoy being the most powerful superheroes in the world, the unending public adoration, and (in my interpretation) each other. they're also both overwhelmingly lonely and they know it -- homelander teases her multiple times about how she has no friends with a bit more bite in every passing season, while maeve is keenly aware of his isolation and exploits his yearning for love pretty effectively.

maeve steadily grows disillusioned with her position at vought because she still has a moral code, suppressed though it may be. even so, she nearly relents to homelander's vision: that they will be lonely at the top but lonely together. she's pulled out of her miserable state of inaction by annie and elena. annie reminds her of what a hero should be (what she was, once); elena offers her a way out of vought, serving as maeve's light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak.

she escapes that tower as maeve, not maggie. she rejects homelander's god complex which engenders his cruelty towards regular people and 'lesser' supes -- no one will call her queen maeve ever again, at least -- but it is still important to her to be a hero, and for better or for worse, she found that as maeve. i feel like she'd struggle to exist without her powers (possibly the self-awareness hasn't settled in yet) for all the reasons mentioned above. i like to think that eventually, she'll circle around to helping people and resisting vought however possible -- albeit on a smaller, more covert scale so she can continue living a peaceful life with elena.

[danzafila]

relatedly, someone recently said to me how sweet they found Petra's "I'm the will of the Empire"' line bc it shows how strong her friendship with El actually is and I bit my tongue bc CF fans really don't take kindly to you pointing out anything bad about the Empire, but holy misread batman. how was that your takeaway from that line!!!!!!!

[fumifooms]

Howl’s moving castle dunmeshi AU

I’ve cracked the code I know why I love Marcille x Chilchuck so much. They’re literally just like Howl’s Moving Castle Howl and Sophie. Okok indulge me for a sec I’m about to dump so many pics and ramble for a bit. I want you to see my marchil vision. It’s fabulous extra cringefail hopeless romantic drama queen x grumpy old sad angry caring hardworking person cursed to be here & cursing fate and giving tough love to everything in a miles radius. No one is safe. From either of them. Calcifer or Micheal is Izutsumi. Wait wait no Calcifer is Senshi and Michael is Izutsumi. Senshi as Calcifer works bc Calcifer is just chained to Howl and is there reminding Howl to not die and take care of himself, giving hints about how to break the curse to Sophie, also the fire demon cooks the eggs and bacon checkmate. And then LAIOS IS TURNIP HEAD OH MY GOD THAT WORKS OUT PERFECTLY. Chilchuck & Marcille, screaming terrified of the weird scarecrow chasing after them, meanwhile the weird scarecrow that’s harmless: :(. Wizard Suliman is Falin and the second fire demon is Winged Lion, so bam everything comes full circle.

I’m assuming most people who’ll see this post maybe saw the movie but not the book, and what you need to know is that the movie makes Howl so much dreamier and collected and cool, whereas in the book he’s just a drama queen 24/7 that’s it. He’s a wet cat dressed in expensive sparkly glittery gowns that needs to be yelled at to do anything he needs to do. He complains. He bemoans. Meanwhile Sophie is, honestly pretty like in the movie? Less contrarian and anger issues but will grumble and yells while cleaning nonetheless. Hardworking but will pathetically sit down on a chair in a dark corner to cry about her aching bones and OHH this is ALL because she’s the eldest child and she was doomed for unhappiness and no one can ever love her… So she’ll whack everyone into order and purge her feelings through aggressive cleaning and using weed killer. IS THIS NOT GIVING MARCILLE & CHIL TO YOU?!

There’s this funny widespread take from the fandom:

And it couldn’t be more true in a marchil context either. Like come on. For all of this post just swap the names of Howl for Marcille and Sophie for Chilchuck.

(Last one with the art by Cookiekappa on Tumblr)

Tell me this isn’t so Marcille. Tell me Chil wouldn’t run away from home thinking he’s failed life and is no longer in shape to work and now has to waddle in self-pity, seeking out wizards which he hates and finds shady bc it’s his last option, and then end up a maid & cleans everything out of spite and also worry for the person living there. Tell me Marcille wouldn’t throw a depressed slime tantrum so bad that it causes a partial town evacuation because her wails summon unknown horrors, over her HAIR. Forget slime she’d blow up the house instantly. She would breakdance as refusal to go see the king. Chilchuck would call her a slitherer-outer and she would gasp in offense and they’d have a fight.

Marcille having full on poems laying around and then Chil & Izu seeing them and being like "Ah yes, this must be a spell, it makes no sense and is so extra, just like how silly our resident witch and her magic is". Izutsumi going "Okay peepaw I’ll teach you how to use a magical bucket just take one step forward-" and they immediately fuck it up and they’re left stranded in far unknown lands. Chilchuck complaining that HIS BACK HURTS. And at every turn or something mildly inconveniencing him "NOTHING GOOD EVER HAPPENS TO THE MIDDLE CHILD".

And can we talk about the aging motif, the curse… Marcille never letting herself grow close to someone even though she does all these grand gestures for them at first. Meanwhile her fear of loss stares at her straight in the eye whenever she looks at 90 years old Chilchuck, and her deciding to not run away from their relationship is what ends up healing both of them. She gets over her fear of intimacy and he grows over feeling like a terribly dull unlovable failure. Me sobbing when I remember how Sophie’s curse of being old is a self-inflicted manifestation of herself thinking she’s romantically unlovable and weak…….

This is it for now but rest assured that I want to make art of this, have these memes for now

[pissfizz]

I have decided adam is actually a very good character but the fandom was too blinded by the uncomfortable interactions with Langa to realize this

[consularmain]

HELP THEY'RE TRYING TO KILL ME

[lloydfrontera]

i will never stop being confused about people saying og lloyd was maltreated. like. what the fuck are you talking about. it's not maltreatment if you verbally and physically abuse and harass the people around you and then people start avoiding you and talking shit about you. that is called Consequences Of Your Actions and it's literally the least og lloyd should've gotten for the shit he pulled. like. someone very well could have decided not to take his bullshit and beaten his ass easily at any point. but they didn't. no one ever fucking did. javier is the closest we ever get to that and it was one (1) punch to get him to stop destroying someone's home and business. show me where is the maltreatment. cite your sources. tell me where can i find it. if you're gonna say something with your whole chest please tell me you've at least read the source material and aren't just explaining your headcanons as if they're facts. show me the fucking receipts ajsdhksf

[torgawl]

i keep thinking about how “is this what justice means to you, answer me neuvillette”, despite having been used in a case all those hundred of years ago, was probably a question that haunted - and still haunts - neuvilette during the entire time he has been chief of justice. i keep thinking about how they highlighted his struggles through time with both carole and wriothesley's trials. how guilty and powerless neuvillette must have felt for not being able to support and save those he recognised as vulnerable and victims before a system that corrupted their fates but that he wasn't able to change despite his position. the theme of being a casualty of a system no matter if you're the victim or the perpetrator in its eyes. the way neuvillette took, in both cases, things into his own hands. even if it was too late to fix the hurting carole and those who cared for her went through, even if it was too late to save her life; even if it was impossible to change wriothesley's past, his verdict and subsequent imprisonment; neuvillette went above and beyond, making use of his influence, to allow both melusines and wriothesley the opportunity of a better future - to melusines by making sure they weren't discriminated, to wriothesley by supporting his attempt at a second chance in life. i think part of the reason he's so intriguing is our awareness that this internal conflict he's bound to have is so complex. you have a chief of justice, or a judge, that is supposed to be imparcial and follow the law stictly confronted with situations of social injustice, unable to protect those who rely on him. you have someone who understands better than anyone what it means to be an outcast, being able to relate to those who are ostracised and have their pain weaponise against them. you have, in vautrin's case, a friend who cannot even showcase his own pain and is still expected to fullfil his juridical duties despite being personally related with those involved in the case. someone who people constantly turn to but whom he feels like he has no right to turn to himself. it's about the conflict between his feelings and his duty, between what's expected of him and what he can actually do. i think that's why the end of his story quest is so emotional and why it's so heartwarming to have him realise he isn't an outcast anymore, that he has a community there for him too. because a system is a system and he will probably never be able to save everyone, because yes he isn't human, but it doesn't mean he doesn't deserve to belong or that an active demonstration of love towards individuals and people he can relate to rather than the theoretical concept of humanity isn't meaningful. in fact, i'd it's a lot about that, about finding ways to be kind and how community gives meaning to life; how personal relationships and targeted kindness can shape society, or at least i think so

[imminent-danger-came]

Im asking cause i really like your theories - do you think theres a reason why peng is so focused on macaque? He talked to him first in 4x02, mentions him out of nowhere even when no one does, and even seems bitter when mentioning the hold wukong has on him. I joke he has an unrequited crush on macaque and hes pulling on his pigtails, but the fact lmk both made him have a big obsession with macaque and had him escape instead of just jailing him like yellowtusk, makes me feel theres a reason for it

There could easily be some jttw thing I don't know, or there could not, but I'll do my best to provide some insight based off of what we see in lmk!

So, I think Peng and Macaque quite simply just don't mesh. This is used as a way to highlight their differences, as well as set up the eventual fight between Macaque and Peng in 4x13. Peng dislikes the way Macaque goes about things, especially because Macaque prefers to be methodical and cautious while Peng loves to foolhardily fight:

Macaque: "Look Wukong—I get you're excited, I do! But crossing the jade emperor is going to have consequences- and you're not listening. *sigh*" Peng: "You always were the most cowardly of the bunch Macaque, slinking around in the shadows like a rodent—well I for one am done with squabbling for scraps!"

(4x02 New Adventures)

-

Sun Wukong: "Peng is the most dangerous foe any of you have ever faced—buuuuut, the only thing they care more about than fighting is self preservation." (4x12 The Plan Man)

-

These two characters are foils. Where Macaque has a difficult time leaving-

Peng: "The six-eared Macaque fighting side by side with his own replacements! Is there anything Wukong could do that would break his hold over you?" (4x13 Rip and Tear)

-Peng on the other hand runs the moment things turn south. They abandon their brothers, valuing their own life over anyone else's and making it clear that no one has a hold on them the same way people have a hold on Macaque. Macaque never wanted to reach for more, yet Peng is motivated by their lust for wealth and status. They're "done with squabbling for scraps" and are glad to say goodbye to Camel Ridge—or "this dump"—clearly focused on material things more than anything else.

Macaque: "No that's YOU! You're the one always running off! Looking for more power, more sources of immortality—you're the one who wouldn't quit while were were ahead! Not the great sage, he's got to drag EVERYONE else into his mess!" (4x11 A Lifetime of Mistakes)

((I will say, however, I wonder why Peng chose to leave Heaven in the first place. Their motivations aren't as noble as Azure's and Yellowtusks'—what forced them out of their spot in the Celestial Court, if anything did?))

As for mentioning Macaque out of no where—I wouldn't say that's the case! Macaque was the last remaining member of the Brotherhood they had yet to cross paths with in 4x09, it makes perfect sense that Peng would bring him up while talking about reforging the Brotherhood after failing to win over DBK. Of course, Azure and Yellowtusk don't care—Macaque was basically the boyfriend Wukong kept bringing around that no one else liked.

Which...3x08 anyone?

Macaque: "*laughs* Together? Remind me again exactly what it is you contribute to the team? They seem to get on just fine without you! Don't take it personally Tang—your buddy Wukong values people by how useful they are to him. Take it from me as an...expert in what happens when you get too close to the king. Look out for number one, because if you don't? No one will." (3x08 Benched)

Another thing that piques my interest is Peng's choice to run, a cowardly choice, something that in another time they surely would have insulted Macaque for. ESPECIALLY because, Macaque is the one who instead makes the choice to stay in 4x13/4x13, helping to seal the Jade Emperor's power.

So ya. They foils.

Moving on, with the whole "Peng escaping rather than being imprisoned" plot point, I'd call attention to this 4x12 scene:

Peng: "Hm. I was expecting a little more pageantry while we were the ones running the show! Turns out Azure even trapped the cup bearers in the scroll. Pouring one's own drinks does tend to dampen the mood." Yellowtusk: "We are missing more than waitstaff brother—look around! This is not the change we dreampt of." Peng: "Oh, I don't know, a little bit of chaos might be good for the world!"

(4x12 The Plan Man)

-

Peng's specific use of the word chaos here leads me to believe that their going to somehow become involved with our who-done-it underworld plot. If Peng is one for chaos, and "the universe is perilously close to tipping into chaos", then it's 1+2. Now that Peng is free and Yellowtusk is imprisoned (very Macaque and SWK of them), I think it's quite possible Peng could work to free Yellowtusk next season, and Yellowtusk might downright refuse (very UNLIKE Macaque and SWK of them). Peng and Yellowtusk's motivations were extremely different since the beginning, and I think the rift between these two will be something explored down the line.

As for Peng and Macaque, I'm sure they'll get another confrontation! Something like Peng offering Macaque a "way out" from whatever our secret puppet-master has planning, and Macaque, in a beautiful choice of showing off his character development, chooses to instead stick it out with SWK and MK. It'll be something that highlights how much Macaque has developed and grown, while showing off Peng's vices.

[vagabond-pinky]

me looking for all those bad Shadow the Hedgehog characterizations yall keep talking about