#is papyrus knight?? idk yet :)

[missowo]

"It's great to see you again."

"Yeah, it's really nice."

First - Previously - Next

[silly-salty-utdr-rants]

papyrus backstory rant repost from main

you know what isnt acknowledged enough?

we know more about sans and gaster's backstories than papyrus'.

what we know about gasters backstory:

he was the royal scientist, he likely had a lot of hubris, he built the core, he fell into the core, pieces of his existence were scattered across time and space, he had a following of people that were seemingly also caught in the blast and was/is somehow connected to papyrus, sans, the player, chara and deltarune. certainly not the most detailed but a damn good basic outline

what we know about sans' backstory:

he at some point was a scientist, there is a mysterious group of people he will supposedly never see again, he is likely the older of the 2 brothers, he might have seen a human before frisk, he at some point lost hope of ever returning to an unspecified location and at some point gained the title of judge. still relatively vague and some clues are fairly out of the way but still, a good idea of who he was before frisk fell and flowey fucked around

what we know about papyrus' backstory:

he came from somewhere unknown with green grass, he doesnt like hotland for unknown reasons, he made the battle body a few weeks before frisk fell, flowey took a liking to him for unknown reasons, undyne likely only recently started training him but when she did it was because he waited outside her house all night, he was apparently feeling down for a while before frisk fell and.. what else?

this vague ass tiny idea of what he maybe did like a month before we meet him hardly serves as a backstory. and funny enough this is all i can garner from oh idk THE CHARACTER WITH THE MOST LINES OF DIALOGUE IN THE WHOLE GAME SECOND ONLY TO THE NARRATOR! this is why i lovingly dub paps the king of deflection, as another example lets look at the time someone in the papyrus qna asked what he looked like when he was younger and in response he played dumb to be purposefully stingey about his past and try to show a picture of himself from the day before through a textbox. and its not like he doesnt know what hes doing, hes stubborn not stupid, thats why he vaguely hints at truelab during a phonecall despite moments before pretending he doesnt know what a lab IS, thats why he plays dumb around sans, thats why he seemingly lies to frisk about his knowledge of hotland, thats why he knows how to use reverse psychology well enough to manipulate UNDYNE of all people, and thats why he brushes off sans' time shenanigans as yet another prank across time and space, because he is the king of deflection and we dont know shit about his backstory and neither does anyone ingame, so if he does end up being the knight, he's hidden bigger bombshell secrets before, so why stop now?

[sadpurpleblood]

throwing out some ideas for an underswap take that im probably not gonna elaborate on anyways. this would be paired with a deltaswap au, since a lot of UT aspects swap with that of DR here.

the barrier would swap with the dark fountain. instead of being banished underground by the human mages, they were instead given it by the knight as a safe haven for them. based on the logic that darkners (usually) cant die, the fountain in this au would grant the monsters invincibility as long as they stay in its reach.

flowey would swap with ralsei. i dont actually believe in the "piles of asriels dust" theory but this was too good to pass on. the fallen prince reanimated into a strange new being by pure darkness. this would most likely mean asriel doesnt swap at all which is a bit odd but oh well.

chara would swap with gaster. probably not in terms of backstory, but in the actual happenings of the "game". one a mysterious observer, giving you the connection to the world via the soul, the other the first fallen child who lost themselves in the darkness they wanted to gift their new family.

swaps like toriel<>asgore, sans<>papyrus, undyne<>alphys would probably stay the same. not sure what to do with the ghosts. would like to give mad mew mew a bigger role so perhaps she will swap with mtt but idk yet.

[bonetrousled]

idk i just think i would be sort of (<- world's biggest understatement) upset if we got all these WEIRD fucking tidbits abt papyrus over the years and realized that compared to everyone else he has smth freakish and sinister going on and it turns out the knight is someone we've never met and we never figure out what papyrus's problem is. and the fact that he hasn't shown up yet bc hes "busy" . busy doing what. opening holes in the ground so you can feel popular gayboy?

[secret-weapon-seven]

Hey so idk if anyone has said this yet but.

Knight Papyrus actually fits into DR's theme of escapism!! cause he wants to be popular and well liked so he makes worlds he can go to be those things? Maybe why we havent seen him yet is bcause he spends most of his time in the dark worlds he creates and ignores the less favorable light one!!

[papyrusgayfont]

* I’m just gonna talk about my miraculous/Undertale au because I’m bored

* I’m trying to come up with a proper name for this au. I was thinking “Underbug”, and then “Miraculoustale”, then I realized that sucked and went back to Underbug. But now I don’t know if I really like that name or not, so for now it will just be “Miraculous/Undertale AU”

* I’m still on the fence on whether or not the character’s superhero names would be different or not. I feel like the characters wouldn’t call them selves names like “Pigella”, but I also think names like “Ladybug” or “Rena Rouge” could work just fine. Perhaps some names would stay the same, and some would change, I don’t know yet. At the very least, I know that Susie’s superhero name would probably be something like “Rudeness Buster” or just “Rude Buster”

* I think I have an idea now for what the dark world special would kind of be about. The dark world would be in the boiler room of the school, and Frisk would be the one who created it. Essentially they would be akumatized into “Knight” (quick side note, there would also be a villain named (K)nightmare Knight, mostly as a reference to Nightmare Knight, and they would probably replace Darkblade, but they wouldn’t be Frisk), and they would gain the power to harness their determination and use it to create dark worlds. I don’t really have anything else for this special, but at least I now have something lined out for it

* a thing in season 3 of the show is that Marinette is in a relationship with Luka at the end of season, and Adrien is in a relationship with Kagami. In this au, Mettaton wouldn’t be in a relationship with anyone, but Papyrus would be in a relationship with Kagami’s older sister (Kagami doesn’t have a sister in the show but for the sake of this au I’m giving her one who’s around Papyrus’ age, so like 24). An arc that would happen in season 3 would be that for publicity reasons, Gabriel would sort of pressure Papyrus to be in a relationship with Ms. Tsurugi’s eldest daughter, and since Papyrus isn’t publicly out (and he doesn’t want to be), he just kind of goes along with it. Throughout the season he starts to question whether or not he’s gay or if he’s actually bi, because he does enjoy spending time with Kagami’s sister (who I should really get a name for but I’m not creative enough so I’ll find one later), but he doesn’t know whether or not he truly holds romantic feelings for her. But, by “Lies”, he would come to the conclusion that he is gay, and they would break up on good terms, Kagami’s sister would be completely understanding.

* something that was revealed in season 4 is that Rose has, an illness. Idk what it is but she has one. And since Noelle is the Rose equivalent, she would have one too, and it would be the illness that took Rudy in the Underground. But, since everyone’s on the surface now, and technology is better, Noelle’s illness wouldn’t be fatal, she would be completely fine, but she still does feel ill from time to time.

* an idea I had for “Truth” would be that Sans would start to notice that Mettaton is always running late to things, like family gatherings, or work, or to hangouts, or just anything. He knows about his crush on Papyrus, so he confronts Mettaton, asking him why he’s always running away from events for no reason, or always being the last to show up, and always coming up with horrible excuses for everything, and that because of all this it wouldn’t be the greatest idea if he dated Papyrus, since he’d just be distracted and wouldn’t put time into the relationship. And since Mettaton obviously can’t respond with the truth, Sans gets akumatized and tries to force the truth out. Eventually, he’d use his power on Alphys, who would reveal to him what happened to his and Papyrus’ father, Gaster, and she’d just tell him to go talk to Asgore. Asgore would reveal that he fell into the core and shattered across time and space, and Sans would blame Asgore for this (cuz idk, he didn’t pay for enough railings), and then the episode would just play out the same as it did in the show, except Sans would still be suspicious of Mettaton, until Wishmaker, where he learns why he’s been so secretive.

* Nathalie would be a little more apprehensive with helping Gabriel, because she wouldn’t like the idea of Gabriel essentially sacrificing someone else for his own goals, but at the same time, his goal is getting his son back, so she feels conflicted way earlier on

* the reason that Gerson would be the guardian of the mother box is that, essentially, there would be monster and human guardians, but during the war between humans and monsters, it essentially became a civil war between the guardians. Gerson does something that leads to the temple being destroyed, along with the guardians, and this includes his son, Alvin, who would’ve been a guardian as well. He would’ve lost the butterfly and peacock miraculous, and through all his time in the underground he would’ve had the mother box

* Papyrus would’ve been the first monster ambassador, so the reason that he would eventually become a model is that during some event, he and Gabriel would cross paths, and Gabriel would think that Papyrus would make a good model. And Papyrus, loving the job but still feeling stressed from being an ambassador, agrees to become a model. Overtime, they’d become friends (or at least to Papyrus it would seem like they’re friends), and Papyrus would mention that his father was a scientist. Gabriel would be curious, Papyrus would mention that he doesn’t remember much, but that he worked with timelines and studying how timelines worked, which would motivate Gabriel to get the ladybug and cat noir miraculous, so that he could bring Gaster back to life and find a way to bring Adrien back from an alternate timeline.

* Burgerpants would be a successful comedian on the surface, and he would be on tour traveling the world. One of his shows would be in Paris, and there was a chance that one of the audience members would get a backstage pass, and that person is the Nice Cream Guy. BP is nervous and tries to ask Mettaton’s for advice (they would’ve made up and been on at least alright terms with each other) on what to do and how to act. While NCG is backstage, BP would try to impress him, but Bob Roth, because he sucks, would try to cancel the backstage tour, because he wants BP to sign onto some merchandising deal or whatever. Eventually NCG would leave because of Bob Roth, BP would be upset with him, and then he’d get akumatized into Jevil.

* was that all an excuse to put some nicepants into this thing? Yeah sure, whatever

[capricioussun]

4!

“Quartet”

OH MAN. Okay. This one was really crazy, and it all started with, surprise surprise, a Papyrus specific idea. But basically. The end result idea was that the skeleton bros from four main ‘verses, UT, UF, US, and SF, had initially been just two monsters, but had gotten split apart upon what wound them up in their respective undergrounds. It got real wild, they used to be important members of the royal family’s court, Sans being their chief mage (royal scientist basically) and Papyrus being their head knight (no idea if there’s a specific word for that), and they were from a world mirroring but separate from the universes they wound up in (sort of like DR I think??). But at some point they remember, after all remeeting and whatever split them up and threatened their original home in the first place returns to destroy their new ones. It was SO crazy man, that was actually the original imagery, the Papyri re-fuzing to this very tall, cool looking monster in knights amor with four arms and utilizing a sword and a bow and arrow to fend of The Enemy and save them (for the time being). At that point, the Sanses still didn’t remember yet so they were a little confused until the idk what to call him, omni-Papyrus explained. I don’t remember where it went after that but I think about it from time to time and want to come back to it/draw some stuff from it

[bonetrousledbones]

i think it would be really funny if dr chapter 3 had a super dramatic Knight introduction where they just show up and say “what the FUCK”

[robozombii]

ignore the clickbait esque circles but i havent seen anyone talk about these yet so? i went on deltarune.com/egg for my own curiosity and

the whole page covers a game noelle used to play -sorta like pokemon breeding systems- which included a glitchy, mysteriously dissapeared egg. and i mean, it doesnt say its noelle but. cmon. the username? unless it was dess holiday, perhaps at a younger age. the numbers 1225 also represent the day of christmas, december the 25th, so theres another connection

another thing to note is the use of 'special' which spamton has said plenty of times (or as he says, SPECIL) and the fact spamton and noelle are already connected as is in the snowgrave route.. this just makes me even more curious as to how involved the holiday family is with the darkworld, the knight, or maybe even gaster (since most people associate him with the egg) however i WILL say theres a growing theory papyrus has something to do with the egg, im sure you could search it up

idk if this was a recent addition to the website, and im just late and this is already a well known fact- but i wanted to point it out since it was a genuine discovery for myself

[starlightshore]

why don't you believe gaster is the knight?

This ask is a bit old sorry for never answering because I was lazy

Basically: I believe gaster is mystery man. Gaster stats are 666s, Fun value is 66. Looks like a skeleton,* is the only follower to not have a counterpart, and has a darkworld door.

*which matters because both Papyrus and sans have gasterblasters. Sans has a darkworld door and both break game world physics and are knowledgeable of the game UI. They're strongly hinted to not originate in the undertale world. W.d. Gaster. Wingdings Aster. Come on.

Anyway mystery man has two cracks. The repeating imagery in "???" Has two cracks on each eye. Jevil too has this.

I think gaster summoned the knight, who is the darkness.

Entry number 19: darker yet darker. Shadows cutting deeper. (Light) photon readings negative. (This is paraphrased) gaster is messing with darkness, he is calling onto it.

I feel gaster is too removed from the world to be the knight. He observes things, he is inaccessible to the physical world. The knight is proactive, creating fountains and chaos and believes in the void and it's unreality. That doesn't sound like Gaster's motivations, it sounds like gaster wants to learn more about this mysterious force rather than IS this force. Gaster summons You with the red soul but isn't directly involved. The knight creates and speaks to those who look into the abyss. Gaster only observes through you, only speaking through a survey, an entry, and UI. He's too clinical and scientific, that's not a believer of chaos.

(Tho Toby did say there is order in chaos in the stream. Though, equally notable, all the more intriguing for a man of science to want to study chaos to find the order hidden in...)

Also minor thing: I like the idea that if gaster discovered the knight in darkness that implies the darkness is an older being than him.

Now this is more speculative here on out.

I've heard the theory gaster is called a knight because dark world wouldn't have a term for royal scientist. counter point to that: I feel a MAGE would better fit for him. Science and Magic go hand in hand, both rely on systems. Now granted I know nothing about chess or cards so idk if there's a matching "mage " term that'd fit that.

Lots of use of "man" with Gaster. The tree Easter egg describes him with "he" and "man" and its "mysteyman." Masculine terms. And yet the knight is a "they."

Veeeery much speculative and personal but on the note of gaster fitting mage more than a knight, the two fit the roles as shown in the undertale storybook intro and collector's edition. Like. Why were they so detailed and singled out in that. Why is Poncho in the deltarune story... why is kris' darkworld form a knight. It's extremely suspicious. I swear they're going to be relevant! I just know it.

Heres my perosnal theory. Not fully grounded but this is how I make sense of things.

I think Poncho becomes the mage and the mage becomes gaster. Why trap monsters underground and not kill them? Why have a knight to stand by the mages when sealing the monsters? Wouldn't killing a lot of monsters cause a huge LV? Gerson implies knowledge of the game mechanics loosely and he says it's how he survived the war. That's like, tying the war to the save power and we know gerson had strange... dreams that sound like undertale.

Anyway somehow the LV causes the knight to become inhuman or something, idk, Mage wanted the barrier up and didn't want monsters to die. Maybe because of magic. Idk I'm grasping at straws here because we don't have enough info. I genuinely, genuinely believe there's more to the knight than "It's just Toby being sneaky about writing gaster into deltarune" and I think it ties into the separation and origins of each universe's main conflict. Barriers and Fountains.

I'm onto you. Toby.

EDIT: two additional thoughts! Poncho is shown as a Lightner, directly opposed to darkners. Mage/Gaster being light, the knight being night I mean darkness.

The two being opposites, the need for the TWO of them. They balance each other. Chaos and order. Magic and Science.

You need light to stop the darkness spreading, you are hope and you shine with power. Gaster is what brought you here, he is the torch that carries you, the angel and your light.

[mar64ds]

idk if you've answered a similar ask already, but if papyrus ends up with a different role who else do you suspect is the knight? and how do you think confronting the knight will end up?

even if we dont see them yet, i think the knight is a pretty interesting character. i cant wait to see how their character is further built up

I have been thinking about this today!!

-Gaster: maybe he isn't a separate character from the knight, maybe he is the knight as well! That could work too! I don't think he will be, but he is still a canditate

-Gerson/Alvin: the dialogue of 'communion' of Spamton is what makes me believe this lol and it seems like Gerson can be important in the story at some point. And who knows maybe someone who isn't on the list could be the knight, so maybe Alvin? I think so far this would be a strange decision but if the rest of the chapters set this concept right then I think it could work!

-.....Ralsei?: I don't know he is really mysterious lol

-There is also the possibility that it could be a completely new character, which I don't they will be, but the chance is still there, and I think Toby would be able to make it work if it happened

I have seen people say that Asgore and Undyne could be possible candidates but I don't really see it, Undyne was some sort of knight in undertale but her role here doesn't seem very mysterious so far, and Asgore.... he is a sad divorced man that messed up at some point with something but I don't think it's Knight related

I don't think Kris is the Knight either, the way the chapter ended felt more like trying to make the player think they are the Knight but it's revealed later that they really aren't, any lightner can create a fountain, Queen told them that. Who knows maybe they are but so far it wouldn't make a lot of sense

I'm not sure how the confrontation would be like... right now it seems that the Knight is trying to bring the Roaring, but why? Are they even fully trying to do that? I'm so invested in this and I can't wait to see the full story

[lazyliars]

I FINISHED DELTARUNE CHAPTER 2

Very fun. I was genuinely struggling with the last boss, played it up to 1 AM last night, was about to give up and go to bed, and then...

I don't know what happened, but something clicked in my brain? Suddenly I was perfectly dodging attacks and had the pattern LOCKED down?? I was having such a miserable time right until then. Then out of nowhere I started seeing the freaking code and owned it.

Spoiler-laden thoughts under the cut.

THAT ENDING.

So Kris opened a dark fountain in their house, right? That's what happened?

Setting aside the obvious "What the hell does it mean for a fountain to exist in the Light world" question, does that imply that they're the Knight? Probably not, right, because the King and The Queen would have recognized them...

I'm still on my crack theory that Papyrus is the knight. Think about it! He just arrived to town, and this business with the dark fountains only started recently iirc? And in UT, Papyrus wants to join the royal guard... in other words, a knight.

And considering the Lightners that have entered the Dark World so far seem to be ones facing serious emotional issues (Susie feeling like she'll always be "the bad guy", Noelle's difficulties speaking up for herself and dealing with her family life crumbling, Berdly's superiority/inferiority stemming from skewed self-perception, the myriad things going on with Kris...)

Papyrus just moved to a new place, and doesn't seem to want to leave the house. It's not hard to imagine a person struggling with the loneliness that comes from a situation like that.

The allure of being a powerful, influential figure in the Dark World would make sense.

That ties Sans into this weirdness, which in turn gets us a little bit closer to whatever the hell Gaster has to do with everything.

...or maybe not.

Theories aside, I really loved the cyber-city as a setting. I was skeptical at first because I usually dislike "electric" themed worlds, just, aesthetics wise, but they knocked it out of the park. I especially liked the glitchy garbage heap part.

The enemies were cool and adorable, the Werewires as a standout were creepy and awesome. Also liked the mechanics of the Butlers.

For characters? I liked the Susie and Noelle-budding romance, it was cute. The ferris wheel was such a good sequence.

I liked Noelle in general. Not too many specifics, I just liked the way they handled her.

AND BERDLY. Goddamn it. As soon as I saw him in the dark world, I fucking KNEW he would be my favorite by the end of the chapter because Toby Fox does not do things half-assed and I'm a sucker for character development. But Yeah no, I really, really liked Berdly's arc.

This wasn't as much of a Susie-heavy chapter as the last, but the developments she did have were nice. Her excitement at seeing Lancer was so sweet! And at the ending, I took her to the bunker, where two other kids were there, and one off-handedly said something mean about Kris and she stepped in and scared them off and then checked on Kris like... 🥺

And Ralsei. Ralsei... Gonna be honest, I was super sus of him at the start of the chapter, and still kinda am, but in a different way now. He DEFINITELY knows more than he's letting on, but whereas at the start of the chapter I was getting almost... idk, smug vibes? Now I feel pretty confident that he's more in the vein of "doing what he thinks is best" type beat. Still sus, and I still wonder what he talks to Kris about when the player's perspective shifts to Susie in both chapters... but I don't think he's a villain-in-disguise. At least, not intentionally.

There's still a lot of mysteries surrounding him that might point to something more sinister, but... yeah, idk. I think part of my initial hesitance was because I was still adjusting to his goat-face after having replayed ch. 1 with the covered bird-ish face.

Also the Swan-boat scene was soooooooooooo cute.

The big plot still remains obscured, but what with "the roaring" being name-dropped, we have some sort of endgame we could potentially ascribe to the Knight, but no motivations to couple with it yet...

I really hope in chapter 3 we get to see them. Maybe not like, ACTUALLY see them, but hear them speak, get a feel for their voice and what they're like...

ANYWAYS. tldr, Deltarune ch. 2 was very good, just as good as ch. 1 in my opinion. Now, the waiting game begins for chapter 3.

OH. Also, I am absolutely OBSESSED with the Snowgrave route. Hooooooly shit. Just... wow. I need to watch a full playthrough before I make any judgements about what it says for the story, but what I've seen so far...

It seems like a deadly reminder that the events of the Dark World DO have consequences for the Light World. It may feel like fantasy, but it can easily twist out into reality, in drastic and horrifying ways.

[illdothehotvoice]

I uh, think it’s pretty obvious Kris (the actual character) is making the fountains and dark worlds, not Papyrus. Papyrus did just literally move in yesterday in deltarune, I don’t think he’s even explored town yet. -🍦

Oh no no yeah lmao fhshxhajf. I'm not saying I think Papyrus is the Knight lol I was just joking about it. Though since we're on the topic! I actually don't think Kris os the Knight! Like yes they created the new fountain but I don't think they created the ones in the computer lab and school. Queen's goal is to make a new Knight since the Knight suddenly disappeared. So we know that someone with enough determination can become the Knight and create fountains (I am paraphrasing a LOT i'm on my phone lol my apologies if this doesn't make sense.) That's why she wants Noelle so bad (side note: It was established monsters can posess determination and I am SHOCKED no one os talking about it) So I personally believe that Kris isn't THE Knight, but a replacement for them like the Queen wanted. Now how Kris became the new Knight? I have no idea I don't think we have all the information yet. But idk I think it's neat. I do think Papyrus is gonna be plot relevant though just because there's so much emphasis on his absence specifically.

[birdsareblooming]

Hello! Welcome to my “Papyrus is the knight” theory/idea

This is less of a theory and more of a “YO WOULDN’T THIS BE SO COOL”

more below the cut:

1. This post. Read it.

https://singing-robot.tumblr.com/post/182920904424/i-was-thinking-about-papyrus-today-as-one-does

2. Papyrus himself.

What’s Papyrus’s character? WHO is Papyrus really? 

Well, we know a few things about him. -He wants friends -He wants to be the hero -He wants to be in charge.....of something? Anything? -He plays with action figures. -He only cooks spaghetti bc his friends like it. -”Forgettable” -He’s REALLY TOUGH (undyne confirmes, and the “brutal kind of guy” line always makes me feel weird) -Sans is his older brother. -Technically a short fuse? He never gets very very angry but he gets annoyed pretty easily, but he only really shows that around Sans. -Sans is more social then him, and therefore more popular.

Ok, that’s what we know.

3. The save point problem.

This is going somewhere I swear.

Ok, So in undertale its heavily established that whomever has the most determined in the underground has control over the timelines.

The save points in deltarune have to do with “the power of [X]” or whatever.

So it’s not too much of a stretch to assume that whomever is the most powerful in the dark world has timeline control.

(And it seems that Lightners are more powerful then darkners. keep that in mind)

We clear? 

Ok

4. Imagine with me.

First, remeber that Deltarune Papyrus isn’t Undertale Papyrus (at least not yet) 

They have lived different lives.

And a lot of this is for the hell of it, again, this is less of a theory, and more of a “what if?” scenario.

Imagine with me, your Papyrus. You’re new in town, and you have no friends. You are BORED out of your MIND. Possibly a child, so having some emotional issues. 

You’re also a younger sibling. A younger sibling who wants friends, but can never make them. While watching your older brother make friends faster than a gay walking down the street on steroids and drugs after a new haircut on coffee. Normal younger sibling issues, watching your older be more accepted and appreciated, while you’re left in the dust.

Also your older brother is Sans. Who hides all of his emotions, and is not good with dealing with his own problems and sure as hell cannot deal with yours without making a pun.

Also, you recently moved, maybe not at your own choice. So, not much control of your life, and, knowing Papyrus, might make him more than a little miffed.

So you’re bored, lonely, underappreciated, invisible/forgettable, and have lost all control over your life. 

Then, you fall into another world. 

A world with, interesting individuals. 

It’s all new, and no one knows you.

But, they remember you. They know you. A gift that your own world has not given you.

Maybe, even with save point control.

You slowly realize, you’re in charge.

You’re the one in control.

It’s almost like a video game...

...too much like a video game.

Eventually, you truly realize this world isn’t real.....in a way.

It exits......but in a strange spirit world, or a way of imagination. 

You truly are......in charge.

You can do whatever you want, with zero consequences.

And it’s fun! for a while.

Soon, you get bored there too, even though this was supposed to be an escape from your boring life.

But soon it gets to the point where you feel like.....everything’s been done. 

...

Well.

not everything.

Wouldn’t it be interesting, if you convinced one of the kings to rise up against the others? What would happen then?

What if you made another aware this world is a lie?

Hell, open up another portal! Get them on your side! They love you!!

Despite doing bad things, you rallied them to your cause! Yes, it was through hate, but who cares! You’ve never had this many people so happy to see you. This many people respecting you. This many people cheering for you. This many people knowing you.

You can take your anger out, people will love you, AND it doesn’t mean shit! If you don’t like it, you can just reload! 

....

Kinda sounds a lot like the geno route huh?

You get bored, you take these characters you love and throw them under the bus to see what would happen. And you don’t get comeuppance do you? Or you don’t think you will.

5.So, Knight Papyrus.

-He’s emotionally distraught -He’s bored af -He feel invisible -He finds a world -Plays it like a video game -Doesn’t......fully realize how real they are. -Is fucking with everyone for fun and also taking out his bottled-up anger on them.

6. Undertale.

Me, and many others, like to theorize that the Sans and Papyrus in Undertale are the same Sans and Papyrus in deltarune, and Sans and Pap in DR is them BEFORE UT. (would make sense with Sans’s story in UT)

So, if this was true,

Maybe tha’ts where Papyrus’s scensetiry in the geno route comes from. 

Papyrus knows you can be better and NOT do this manipulative, “this world’s just a game” shit because HE got better and HE stopped doing this  manipulative, “this world’s just a game” shit.

If in later chapters you redeem him, and he’s like,

“WOW I’M A TERRIBLE PERSON”

and, idk, bring in the “Anyone can be a good person if they just try” message.

If Papyrus learned this lesson through tenderness and true friendship, than why can’t you?

Anyway.....this is disjointed and weird.

[not-a-feron]

Buckle up here are my thoughts on Deltarune

I’ve been seeing a lot of ppl here and videos on YouTube talking abt theories and stuff so I thought I’d make my own megapost to surmise my thoughts and my own theory on wtf is going on in this game Part of this was @brigadeinvader​ and me talking over discord and discussing the game, I don’t think either of us would’ve come up with this on our own

Timeline Placement & Stuff

As Toby stated, Deltarune is neither a sequel nor a prequel because it’s not the same world as Undertale, and this is important. You can call it an AU if you want, it’s not far from what I believe it is. However, somethig doesn’t have to be a prequel or sequel to happen before or after something else. Lemme explain.

I personaly stand for the idea that Deltarune is an alternative wolrd to Undertale, hence why the same characters are there, only different. It being an alternative world means it’s still somehow connected to Undertale. If you know anything about the multiple worlds hypothesis, then you should know Undertale and Deltarune’s timelines would run parallel to each other without interfering (they might’ve been one and the same at some point, but not anymore. And timelines cannot merge back). This still means the events of one can take place after or before the other, just in different worlds.

Not necessarily in that order, but like so. We have two dates to go by, and those are the begining narration of Undertale and Ralsei’s cut manual for Deltarune. Undertale’s is 201X, while Deltarune’s is 202X. This would normally mean Deltarune goes around a decade after. However, the date at the beginning of Undertale is not the date the events of the game take place on, but the date the Fallen Human (I’ll refer to them as Chara) ends up in the underground. The game asks us to name the human from the beginning narration, which isn’t Frisk, so we don’t know exactly how much time passed between Chara’s arrival and Frisk’s. It has to be a lot of time, though, seeing as six other humans fell down in that time and most of the monsters underground don’t remember/flat out haven’t seen the surface or the humans by the time Frisk arrives. And if we take Asriel’s transformation at face value, then enough time has passed for a Dreemurr to age from a kid to a... young man, I guess. Which is certainly more than a decade.

Arsiel being in university in Deltarune doesn’t put it after Undertale, because I’m pretty sure Asriel would also be around that age, if not older, by the time Frisk comes around if he hadn’t died.

If you don’t want to take Toby’s declaration too seriously, since he doesn’t outright say anything but Deltarune being a different world from Undertale with different characters that lived different lives; then Chapter 1 still has some evidence that points towards this. None of the characters you meet that were also in Undertale are exactly the same. Not even their sprites. Everyone has at least something different in their designs when compared to the ones seein at the ending credits of the Pacifist run in Undertale. Asgore doesn’t have a crown, Undyne doesn’t wear an eyepatch, Alphys doesn’t have her labcoat and was probably never a scientist, Mettaton never became a star, Toriel has a darker shirt underneath her purple sweater (check it, I’m serious), Bratty and Catty hate each other, and so on. Sadly we don’t get to see Papyrus, The only one who’s exactly the same is Sans.

Sans

There’s a post by @napstamuse (idk about putting links bc of tumblr’s recent algorithm, sorry) comparing all the main sprites of the characters in both Undertale and Deltarune, and Sans’ jacket is has the same color, even down to the hex value of the blue. Not only that, but his personality remains untouched. He still has some sort of attraction (I don’t mean romantic necessarily) to Toriel, still fond of puns, etc. He’s the only one of those we see that’s exactly the same in Deltarune as in Undertale.

He’s more than probably even the exact same Sans from Undertale. As in, he somehow moved from one timeline to the other, unlike the rest who aren’t the same characters per se. We all know by now Sans wasn’t from Undertale, not really. His Genocide fight convo states “I gave up trying to go back a long time ago.” and “getting to the surface doesn't really appeal anymore, either”. This means 1) he’s not from there, from Undertale’s world/timeline and 2) whatever place he’s from isn’t the surface. That’s important. Because a lot of details point towards Sans being originally from Deltarune’s world, then for some reason moving to Undertale’s sometime before Frisk arrives. But when we find him in Deltarune, what does he say?

And when you ask about “Friends”.

Meaning he also came from somewhere else. Considering Deltarune’s town is in, apparently, the surface; then it makes sense why Sans didn’t originate from there, since he didn’t come from the surface. And he knows the surface, as evidenced by him telling Papyrus what the Sun is (though that could also be bc of Alphys’ anime).

But if he doesn’t come from Deltarune’s town, and he also deosn’t come from Undertale’s world; then where does he come from?

I propose Sans is a Darkner. I don’t know if someone has already made this point in a video or post, but hear me out.

Unless Sans is from a different world altogether, then the only place in Deltarune that isn’t the surface (that we know of) is the Dark World. Not only that, but we know thanks to this infamous scene:

... that Darkners bleed.  Monsters do not bleed. Susie right there more than probably doesn’t bleed either, and yet Lancer assumes everyone in the Fun Gang does. That can only be because his species, the Darkners, all bleed. You know who else bleeds?

Sans does. And yes, I’m aware there have been ppl saying the red thing coming from him is actually ketchup from a bottle inside his jacket (which, knowing sans, wouldn’t surprise me tbh), but that wouldn’t explain why it comes out of his mouth as well. Hence it must be blood. Monsters from the underground all turn to dust upon defeat, yet Sans is the only one in the game who doesn’t. It doesn’t help the fact that we never see him die on screen and the sound effect that plays when the battle ends isn’t the one of a moster being defeated, but of one being spared. We also never really see Darkners bleed, that’s true, since they all flee from battle and you can’t kill anyone in Chapter 1; but Lancer’s bucket scene tells us that yes, blood is a thing in the Dark World that does come out of bodies when they are beaten.

There’s also another thing that might be minor, but all Darkners get tired after enough time in a battle. It’s the way you defeat the Chaos King and it’s the easiest way to spare enemies in Chapter 1. They all fall asleep. After enough time in a battle, Sans also falls asleep. It’s also the only way to defeat him in Genocide.

So Sans might be a Darkner. Why he left the Dark World (what is the Dark World) and why he then left the world of Deltarune to arrive at Undertale... we don’t know. It could have something to do with Undertale’s Gaster (or maybe Deltarune’s), but again, we don’t know. We’ll have to wait for the rest of Deltarune to come out to have more material to go on, I suppose.

Also the stuff about the “don’t forget” picture with the three smiling people on it. The song at the end credits states “don’t forget, I’m with you in the dark”, and the Fun Gang is comprised of three people. But we have no definitive evidence on that either.

More on the Timeline Placement

I personally believe Deltarune takes place before Undertale, though I suppose a better term would be “earlier” than Undertale in the split worlds. By no means whatever happens in Deltarune affects Undertale, we know that thanks to Toby’s tweet. But Sans being there means something happened that made him leave and enter Undertale, so in some ways it is before that game.

I also know there are some things that make this difficult. I still believe Deltarune comes before, but untill we see Asriel or have any definitive dates we cannot be sure as to which one is earlier in the timeline. Gerson being dead complicates things even more, unless you want to tell me monsters age slower in the underground.

Jevil & Seam

Seam’s line if you speak to him after defeating Jevil, the “darker, yet darker one”, is too specific not to be deliberate. We know Jevil spoke to someone that broke him, and we also know said someone was not the Knight. Not only that, but Jevil uses sprites way too similar to the Everyman to also be a coincidense, when using his carousel attack. We also see the Everyman in the wall of the alley Alphys is at the end of Chapter 1. So something is going on there.

Gaster

I think by now we’ve all somewhat accepted the idea that Gaster is more present in Deltarune than he is in Undertale. The same sound that plays during Entry 17 can be heard if you try to use your phone in the Dark World, and it’s also the noise that sounds near the red doors in the woods of town, only slowed down by a crap ton. The tweets before Deltarune was launched are also more than probably written by Gaster, considering the name of the account was changed to black bars and every tweet was in his text style.  During the survey part of Chapter 1 it’s also very probable the one conducting the survey is him, judging by the text style and all the weird choices (like blood types C and D, or the PAIN flavor). That is, of course, until someone else interrupts them. The text stopps being all in uppercase and the speech pattern changes, which is even more evident in the Japanese version as it starts using the correct form of speech (kanji + hiragana) instead of the weird one from before (katakana + hiragana). Coincidentally enough, the only character we know of that speaks in a textbook example of correct speech (thanks to the Japanese version of Undertale), is Chara.

And before anyone starts saying Gaster isn’t there; he is.  We just don’t know where. He has to be there, with no Core to build and no accident to happen that means the Gaster of Deltarune is 1) untouched, probably the same he was before everything went down in Undertale and 2) not a scientist, by that matter. Alphys is a teacher, so Gaster has to be around somewhere (more than probably behind the red doors south of the church, but who knows). We can say, though, that there might be more than one Gaster there. Since Undertale’s was “shattered across time and space” because of the accident, and Deltarune’s never had said accident, then both could be around during Chapter 1.

Also the game continues to crash/restart if you try to name either creator or vessel after him.

Dark World

It exists, lets get that out of the way. I highly doubt it was a dream or an hallucination or something, and there’s some evidence pointing to that. 

It is very probable, though, that it doesn just... exist. How do I even began to explain this.

It might have been created by some otherworldly power influenced by what was present in the abandoned classroom when Kris and Susie return to town. There was a chess board, chess pieces, a deck of cards, a stuffed toy that looked like Seam, etc.  But it did certainly happen. They entered the supply closet. If everything had been a dream or a game, then 1) Susie wouldn’t be surprised and confused (in the case of a game) and 2) they would still be in the supply closet by the time they return. But they were not.

Also, the pencil Kris carries changes if you defeat Jevil before coming back. Not only that, but there’s an item that carries over into your inventory from the Dark World. The egg.

If you are given the egg behind that tree by... whoever that was, it will still be in your inventory when you return to town. You can leave it in Asgore’s fridge and it will multiply, much like the Dog Residue of Undertale. What is up with the egg, we don’t know. Who even gave Kris the egg is also unknown, but for every character we don’t know we could simply answer “Gaster” so we don’t have any clues either.

Kris

Some random thoughts before I close this off.

So Kris. Great adittion to our sweater wearing protagonists, now we can call them the kfc gang.

Seriously, though, Kris. I don’t even know where to begin here.

You can still move their soul when they trap you in the cage.  I think this points to the idea that we control Kris by their soul. It’s what appears on the map when we avoid attacks and what, just like in Undertale, we take control of during battles.

It’s also Kris’ file the one we overwrite at the beginning of the Dark World. It’s pretty obvious that we are taking control over them by taking control over their soul. It might just be a bad case of silent protagonist, but Kris never reacts to anything, even when those around them are shocked. He never tries to do anything on their own, except for that one time they chose to protect either Susie or Ralsei (I don’t remember). Also the “your choices don’t matter” theme going on in Chapter 1.

Us being in control instead of them is even more evident when you try to drop the Ball of Junk once you return to town. Kris doesn’t want to, and is upset when we force them to, but they still throw it away; because they have no control over their body. They’re even relieved if you decide not to after the first question.

We can also suppose this control we haver over them isn’t a first time thing, though maybe not necessarily our control. The only objects they posses are the Ball of Junk and the cage over the red... wagon? (I forget what that is called). The rest of their side of the room is empty, as if they were afraid of having anything the ones controlling could simply toss away.

That explains perfectly why they rip their soul out at the ending of Chapter 1, though not the knife and the smile. Though that’s the most speculation in this rant. 

Anyway, congrats if you read through all that lol Feel free to add your theories/thoughts and help me correct stuff if there’s anythign contradictory in either games that could debunk anything here.

[mar64ds]

i wouldnt be suprised if we meet papyrus and hes like a boss or something. i dont really want to think he's evil in deltarune but instead maybe he has an important role later. but its so strange that we don't meet him at all yet we see all of our other undertale friends (excluding mettaton, which i think maybe theyll have a special role as well??idk) and sort of adds suspense if you will. papyrus is a favoriate of mine so i am hoping he does have a special role in deltarune.

however, if i remember correctly, i did hear from someone else a while back that apparently undertale characters wont really have special roles in deltarune since this is a different story. but who knows with toby fox

Oh no he's definitely not evil!!!!! When i talk about knight papyrus i imagine he's exactly like he's in undertale

Mettaton could have a bigger role as well! It would make sense since he couldn't shine as much in the true ending of undertale, and he deserves more in general

I don't remember toby ever specifying undertale characters couldn't have a big role, he did say the events of this game wouldn't impact undertale and that this game is a different story, but if anything it really seems like the first two chapters are making us think they have a smaller role than they actually could have. After all, chapter 2 did ended like that, toriel could have a bigger role in chapter 3, Mettaton is pretty important with the whole Spamton NEO situation, Asriel will definitely impact the story a lot, and Papyrus is too much of a mystery to simply be a little joke