#it was mostly Edda at first

[indiestsnake]

my contribution to the worldless fandom was not grace and fury nor the first proper content of Edda/Aven, no no no. something far greater.

it was breaking the community seal on finding the duo hot

somebody douse me in holy water

[amphibifish]

heimdall/freya in maloki is interesting to me but only my fanon version of it because i don't really know how much of the eddas is really canon to maloki

[cursecuelebre]

Top Recommendations for Norse Pagans that aren’t Problematic.

There is a lot of books by people who are racist and part of far right side of Heathenry and I’m going to try my best and list the books I have that helped me on my path that isn’t problematic and have questionable intentions. Books and YouTube channels.

Anglo Saxon Socerery and Magic by Alaric Albertson. He is very knowledgeable in his work and path especially on runes which includes the rune poem to make your own interpretation and witchcraft side of things. He even talks about the Elves which I appreciate because not a lot of Norse authors talk about them. It’s more Germanic than Norse but I can’t see any problem adopting certain aspects since they are very similar. I will say he does take himself a bit serious at times but his information is so good and worthwhile. I have not read his first book on Travels through middle earth but it focus on more the pagan side.

Poetic Edda and Prose Edda: it’s what every Norse pagan needs. It’s the foundation of Norse paganism not bibles but myths and tales that can help along our journey. There is tons of translations, but my favorites are Dr. Jackson Crawford Poetic Edda and Anthony Fawkes Prose Edda. But look into other sagas as well like Volsung which Dr Jackson Crawford also wrote about.

Beowulf. More of a Germanic tale but again includes it has roots of Germanic sorcery, traditions, religion like the concept of Wyrd (Fate), the runes, and values within his society like loyalty and mythical creatures. Again there is many translations even Jrr Tolkien did a incompleted version of Beowulf but I think Tom Shippey finished that version I could be wrong. Nonetheless explore more than one, the oneI have is by Seamus Heaney.

Grimm Fairy Tales this mostly German Folklore but it’s still quite important to learn about in German folk magic, creatures and entities in German folklore tends to be very real to the practitioner in their spellwork.

The Way of Fire and Ice by Ryan Smith a very progressive outlook in Norse paganism, he talks about creating communities in Norse paganism and calling out and denouncing Nazis in the community how Norse Paganism is inclusive and how to be open to all types of people. But he has a beginner approach to the deities, beliefs, values within Norse paganism.

Look into a lot of academic sources that’s where you will find a lot of information on Norse paganism and religions.

Tacitus Germania - A Roman historian talking about the Germanic tribes their culture and customs.

Saxo Grammaticus history of the Danes

The Viking Way by Neil Price it goes good in depths about magic in Scandinavia like Seidh

Dictionary of Norse Mythology a quick guide to northern myths, if you are trying to find a specific god and you don’t have time to look up in a book it’s in there with great information to each one.

Children of Ask and Elm: History of Vikings by Neil Price on Scandinavian culture during the Viking age

Some YouTube Channels

The Norse Witch: Bente lives in Germany and their channel encompasses all of Norse paganism more around magic. They do interviews with other Norse witches of folk magic like Icelandic and Danish. Even gives good book recommendations and advice on general spellwork as well!.

Dr Jackson Crawford he is an author but he also has a YouTube channel. He was a professor in Colorado on Norse culture, mythology, and language and now is a full time YouTuber. He did a series of videos on the runes which are more historically accurate. Discusses the myths and the language and what do they mean. Jackson Crawford isn’t a Norse pagan nor he doesn’t care if you are one but just letting you know he isn’t coming from a pagan perspective.

The Welsh Viking also like Jackson Crawford but still has really great knowledge on Viking culture.

De Spökenkyker who is a channel that focus on German Folk magic living in Germany who is a practicing German Folk Witch.

Please feel free to add on any recommendations that are helpful and useful to the Norse pagan Community!

Update:

Just adding new sources from the comments that I really enjoy I have been notfied that some YouTubers aren’t that great after all. You may find other people’s reblogs with their names but I have edited them out. But here’s some more reminder these are good perspectives and ideas as well in the community that aren’t problematic it’s okay to listen to these folks and gain some perspective or historical insights of course let me know if I’m mistaken or they are problematic that I didn’t know about.

- Welsh Viking (YouTube) and his more historical like Jackson Crawford in that sense

- Mathias Nordvig (Author) - Notably Astaru for Beginners

- Arith Harger (YouTube)

- Call of The Runes by Walter McGrory (his teaching of the runes is really great and includes the rune poems)

- Elves, Witches, and Gods by Cat Heath - If your interested in magic especially Seidr Cat does a great job of explaining her practice again HER practice it’s following someone’s example but you can adapt into your own practice of course.

- A Practical Guide to Asatru by Patricia M Lafayllve - She has interesting points and a good read.

These some of these authors utilise their knowledge based on history and their own practice and I think it’s okay to read or listen to them.

[forthethings-tm]

My Edda and Aven headcanon designs!! Edda did stay mostly the same but i changed Aven a bit more! Anyways this is their design before they met, I have something cooking later!! I imagine their first meeting changed them in quite a few ways visually as well. At least, on their... body projection things? yeah. I call them Shells

yuri? in my worldless? no way.

[empyrean-demise]

Feeling very much sad atm so I'm chatting about something pretty interesting to me.

Specifically, the way my gender (Gendervoid) and main kintype (Dark Starfolk/ Aven) links to each other. (Spoilers for my source)

Basically, I don't really feel any sort of gender, it feels less like neither male or female but more "I literally do not have any sort of connection to the concept of gender." This fits my source's version of starfolks, because we did not have any sort of "gender" whatsoever. Even if we do show similarities to certain human traits associated with a certain gender, it is superficial at most, as we don't have concepts pertaining to that.

Imstead, we differentiate based on polarity. First off, there are two "basic" polarities: Light and Dark. There's another type of starfolk known as Transcended or Dual-type, which are a blend of Light and Dark.

So I consider myself to be a Dark Starfolk! But then, the entire ordeal with Edda kind of made me a sort of Transcended starfolk too? Like I'm bordering the line between Dark starfolk and Dual-type. But I mostly consider myself a Dark starfolk.

Which is funny, because dark starfolks (ESPECIALLY dark hunters) tend to be (physically) similar to the human concept of being masculine. Of course, there could have been androgynous or even feminine-presenting dark starfolks, but most of the ones I've seen tend to be masculine.

So if I do decide to transition in any way, I would just do minor things like get a haircut and maybe wear a binder. Because I am find with how I look funnily enough. Gender is no real interest to me.

So yeah, I don't have a gender per say, but I do associate myself with Dark starfolks, and thus more masc-presenting things.

Basically: I am gendervoid in a dark starfolk way. Looks somewhat masculine but ultimately does not associate with the concept of gender in any form nor fashion.

[theinstagrahame]

It's a bad day, and I've been dragging my heels on this. But, I got a bunch of neat new TTRPG stuff in October, so here's what landed in my mailbox.

Break!! - A few years ago, I stumbled on some art on Twitter. It was fun, it was vibrant, and it felt inviting. I wanted to know more, looked into the artist, and discovered it was spot art for an upcoming RPG called Break!! So, I kept an eye on it. The book is beautiful, well laid-out, and really cool, so maybe one good thing came from Twitter*.

The Electric State - Tales from the Loop and Things from the Flood have been pretty high on my "To Play" lists for years. A follow-up, set in a similar (or the same?) world was kind of an instant pickup. Not as interested in the movie, but the game seems pretty rad.

The Geologist's Primer - I picked up the Herbalist's Primer when it came out, and was really impressed with the quality and care that went into it, so when I saw "That but for rocks" was in the works, I was definitely already in. Also excited for the follow up "Mushrooms next time".

Starkhollow Hall - I accidentally fell into a Gothic Fiction kick over Spooky Month, so the timing of this was perfect. I don't know a ton about the GUMSHOE system, but I do feel like what I know about it makes it a perfect fit for the genre. Gothic heroines (and I guess heroes) are at their best when they know there's a dangerous mystery at the heart of what's happening around them, and go looking for it anyway.

Forsaken - Kyle Tam is, honestly, a designer to watch. I picked this up because it was part of an Afterthought Committee project, which is a team I've also really enjoyed work from (my game Water Landing is built off of their game Cast Away). Does a better job of establishing a sort of grimdark/Soulsbourne vibe than some stuff that explicitly tries to.

Iron Edda Reforged - The pitch for this caught me immediately: Cyberpunk Norse Mythology. Tracy Barnett is another Designer to Watch, and I really like all of their stuff--haven't played the original Iron Edda, but have heard it on Party of One and really dug it. Was really hyped to see this come into being.

Electrum Archive v2 - I went through a Weird Sci-Fi phase this year, and the original Electrum Archive was an early pick for it. I really loved the world, the way each class worked differently, and the magic/currency/MacGuffin that it used. Obviously I wanted more, because the second book is here.

Alice is Missing - Silent Falls - My friends and I have been talking about the prospect of another Alice is Missing game since playing the first one about two years ago. It was a really memorable experience, partly due to the game's really compelling design, and to some of the in-moment decisions we made (I played the facilitator character, who starts the game having returned after a long absence, and another player immediately got pissed at them for sorta abandoning the group. it created an interesting play dynamic for the whole session)

Kill Him Faster - I picked up a previous Kovidae Games book as a lark: a collection of exercise-based RPGs. I nearly ignored their other stuff, but this had a pretty compelling pitch: What if time-travel was invented mostly so people could speedrun murdering Hitler. Since Eat the Reich came out, I've thought a bit about Hitler Revenge Fantasy as a genre, and honestly, I'm kinda into it. He was a loser, and deserves to be reduced to a video game villain and killed over and over again; so, yeah. Let's kill him faster next time.

Splat (issue 5) - I'm not usually one for essays and interviews, but this is a zine featuring and by some folks I really like and respect, and this one is packed with thoughts about the state of the indie TTRPG scene and industry from a diverse and immensely talented group. It's honestly a must-read.

(Already getting a few things for the next edition, but also feeling too garbage after the Clusterfuck Election to think about doing anything else today...)

---

footnote: * Technically, two good things came from Twitter. I also once expressed sorrow that I'd missed out on a limited T-shirt from a web comic artist that said "Sorry, Glenn, the only Beck I listen to has two turntables and a microphone", and the creator saw it and had an extra in my size.

[widget117]

Guide to the Edda

I am by no means an expert, but I AM a proud literature buff 💪 📢

The Poetic Edda is a collection of Norse myths divided into four parts:

The Prologue: differing from the other parts of the Edda in terms of structure, subject and information, the Prologue relates Norse stories to those of the Graeco-Romans, hoping to make it's reader take it more seriously (the Edda was written down in the time of Christianity entering Iceland, so this isn't too surprising). It's unclear whether the Prologue was a part of the original texts, or if it was added only with the scribing of the Edda itself, in order to relate to a medieval Christian audience by drawing connections to familiar Christian concepts.

The Gylfaginning: the "core" of the Edda. It is our best source of the Creation story, struggles of Gods and events leading to Ragnarok. It is written as a dialogue between King Gylfi of Sweden and three god-like figures. Gylfi disguies himself as a traveller and journeys to visit the Æsir (the Norse Gods). The three god-like figures are three manifestations of Odin, who Gylfi questions on the order of the Norse Pantheon and the formation of the world.

The Skaldskaparmal: the stories in this section of the Edda give mostly background and explanation for references in Old Norse verse. The Skaldskaparmal gives us stories of heroes, dragon slayers and whatnot.

The List of Metres/Hattatal: undoubtedly composed by Snorri Sturluson himself as an attempt to make himself amicable with the Norwegian King, the Hattatal is a work of 102 stanzas that demonstrate poetics metres and devices. It's a pretty obscure section and is often left out of translations.

The Prose Edda serves as a "how to read Norse poetry" guide for medieval scholars. It's more or less just a couple hundred pages of "here's what's up"

Æsir

The Norse Gods are separated into two groups: the Æsir and the Vanir, who are pretty consistently at war with each other until they eventually fuse into just one group, taking on the name "Æsir" to mean all Norse Gods. The Æsir live in Asgard and rarely quarrel over humans or heroes. They don't like being immortal, either.

The Æsir commonly represent war.

Ex) Odin, Thor, Týr, Frigg

Vanir

The Vanir are Gods of fertility, wisdom and prophecy. Their home is Vanaheimr. After the Æsir-Vanir War, they become a subgroup of the Æsir.

Ex) Freya, Freyr, Njord

Other Creatures

Giants/Jötnar

The Jötnar live in contrast to the Gods (sometimes called "Anti-Gods"); Loki is often considered a Jötunn. There are many names for these entities (Trolls, risi, gýgr, tröllkona, þursar). The connotations for Jötnar become less cool and more evil as Christianity enters the picture, and these beings are not necessarily very large, as the name "giant" might have you expect.

Ex) Hrungnir, Fárbauti, Gerðr

Elves

The Edda mentiones Elves mostly in passing. Though their presence is scarce, it is implied that they held a lot of importance in original Scandinavian myths. There are different types of Elves, such as light and dark, and there are place names connected to them.

As in most mythologies including Elves, they are beautiful, dangerous and magical creatures.

Dwarves

Dwarves are pretty negative creatures in the Norse myth. They were the first of all creatures who live in the flesh of the giant Ymir. The Gods, for some reason unbeknownst to us, changed the nature of the Dwarves so that they "assumed the likeness of men" and started dwelling below the ground.

The reason for changing them may have to do with smithing. The Gods were the earliest master smiths, but abandoned forging and left it to the Dwarves.

Valkyries

Odin's gang of Valkryies decide which fallen Norse heroes are allowed into Valhalla (Odin's hall in Asgard, where the most prominent of the Gods are allowed their own halls, such as Freya or Frigg, etc). Valkryies sometimes appear as lovers of heroes or mortals, even as royalty.

Ex) Brynhildr, Sigrún, Göndul

Monsters

From here on out, classification would take me all goddamn day. Besides the aforementioned, you have your serpents, dragons, lindworms, beasts of battle, draugrs, nixies, selkolla, lyngbakr, hafgufa and hamingja.

The Wild Hunt of Odin — Peter Nicolai Arbo

[wiltking]

can I have some dark fantasy recommendations 😯 content warnings are appreciated just to know what im getting into, but not a deterrent for me!

i have some go-tos that i always rec but i'll throw in some others i haven't talked about as much to shake things up. also all of these are queer.

the hexslinger series by gemma files - horror + dark fantasy. a tragic story following ex-reverend Asher Rook and his sharpshooter lover Chess Pargeter in a wild west world newly rife with black magic + torn apart by the wills of Aztec gods, doomed by the fact that two hexes can never be together without one of them tearing the other apart by the very nature that gives them magic. there is a lot to this series. it can be overwhelming and morose as hell but its also about how Love Is Not A Weakness and that redemption is possible no matter how far you’ve fallen. (cws: gore, rape, time period specific racism and homophobia)

doctrine of labyrinths by sarah monette - dark fantasy + adventure. follows Felix Harrowgate, a prestigious wizard, and Mildmay, a lowly thief as their lives are uprooted and thrown into an adventure neither of them are prepared to undertake. really enjoyed this series overall. book 3 didn't really work for me but it ended strong with book 4 and stuck with me as a positive experience. its probably the least 'dark' on this list, comparatively. i mostly treasure it for having an extremely messy and flawed gay MC going on an adventure full of grief and rage and painful healing. (cws: rape, csa, incestuous thoughts, suicidal ideation)

the edda of burdens by elizabeth bear - dark fantasy + scifi. always recommend reading in chronological order rather than published order (so start with By the Mountain Bound). essentially about sword-wielding angels of light inspired by norse mythology, and their trials and tribulations spanning thousands of years. Mingan is one of the characters of all time to me and BtMB alone is one of the most dearest and influential books. to me. the writing is visually vivid and stunning. (cws: rape, suicide attempt)

wraeththu by storm constantine - dark fantasy + romance. wraeththu is set in a futuristic apocalyptic world where a hermaphroditic race of people (who all use he/him pronouns) have come into power and eradicated most of humanity. the books follow the lives and struggles of three different wraeththu. this had to have been my first exposure to fiction with weird genitals / sex biology and maybe where my fascination with it can be tied back to. pretty depressing and meandering read overall and my biggest criticisms are that book 2 can be painfully boring at times, and that "correct" androgyny is often reduced to "pale + skinny". its also an older work and not at all trans-inclusive. but if you approach it as if its doing its own thing... it can be interesting. (cws: graphic rape, murder via sex, pedophilia)

the ragged blade by christopher ruz - dark fantasy. this is the story of a tragic, violent man fleeing across the desert with his feral daughter to get away from a murderous magician man he loved, once. It's not healthy, it's not happy, but its extremely unique and well-crafted and i will never not be sad that the rest of this series might never see the light of day because the publisher went under. but even so, very well worth the read on its own. (sadly dont remember if this one needs warnings but i dont think there was anything too crazy)

now for a very questionable rec... the steel remains by richard k. morgan. i have so many issues with this series. the sex sucks. Egar sucks. the last book is absolute dogshit. but Ringil.... oh Ringil. if only the series could have just been about him, and written by someone else. i am pretty much only recommending the first book. maybe the second. but its also terrible to inflict this series on someone when it ends like that. so do with it what you will.

[eat-your-milk]

Hi! I've been binging your fic Kiss The Sky (omg it is SOOO GOOODD <333) and I've gotten curious about the bits of old Norse you've slipped in. I've been researching and trying to figure it out for the past few days (for my own fic as well loll) and I can't figure out where you're getting it from.

I know quite a bit of HTTYD fic authors, if they use translations in their fics, use Icelandic because it's easier to find a translator for it and it's pretty close to Old Norse. I don't think I've seen a fanfic use either of the Futharks, (but.. there's good reason lol. Translation machines on it will/would be iffy [more than the Icelandic ones], and it's hard to find a Futhark font lol) and it doesn't seem like you're writing out a Romanized version of the Futharks (unless you are :0 ). And plugging in those words into an Icelandic-to-English translator only works part of the time (could entirely be the translator's fault).

I guess I'm just trying to find where you're getting your language and culture notes from? Sorry for the ramble, and I hope you're doing well! :D

First off OMG THANK YOU!!! Im so glad ya like my fanfic!!! :D!!!! And I am doing ok, thank you for asking!!

This is a fantastic question! I hope this answer isn't too overwhelming! I just really like history lol.

While I do try to draw some knowledge from Elder Futhark, I tend to lean towards transliterations of Old Norse (mainly for the reading experience and the fact it would take me many years to understand what we know about Futhark lol. And translators from what I can tell are VERY iffy lol.)

I draw from a lot of different sources which I then cross reference to get as accurate as possible. Most of my translations come from the work of Snorri Sturluson, namely the Ynlinga-Saga and The Poetic Edda. Specifically: I tend to use the Bellows and Bray translations of the Poetic Edda as my go-to for Old Norse.

In fact, a ton of Snorri's work will come in handy for understanding some religious and cultural aspects, namely the Heimskringla, which is about the various leaders of Norway.

Good news is these are actually available online for the most part! Some translations vary though, so it is good to cross reference.

I have read (mostly) through Viking Language 1 by Jesse Byock which was pretty helpful as well! (planning on reading the second one at some point)

I also tend to reference this website for Old Norse Translations and info (Definitely not to be used as the only source tho since some translations are iffy) As silly as it looks it is actually a FANTASTIC source for specific things like what Vikings used as directions, names for boats, runes, measurements, etc.

https://www.vikingsofbjornstad.com/index.htm

For my culture notes~

The Vikings by Johannes Bronsted (I sure hope I wrote that right but im not looking at it rn lol) was really helpful! I am still in the process of reading Children of Ash and Elm by Neil Price, which has been pretty helpful with understanding Viking's as a whole and how their actions were influenced by their religious beliefs.

I always try to cross-reference online sources when I can just to be sure (I trust websites waaay less than books lol), but here are my main websites I use:

https://www.norsevk.com/

https://viking.style/

https://thevikingherald.com/

I have done more research outside of these specific sources, but I have a bad memory and I can't remember the specific book titles and websites :( Sorry about that! If I remember anything else Ill link it!

If anyone else has any good references, please feel free to add it!

I hope this helps you and answers your question! Thank you so much for asking!! :D

[soapieanxiety]

Strulung rant?

Ok, so before I start this ramble I want to preface two things. 1) I’m not gonna be able to talk about everything that happened in this era, we’d be here forever and 2) I’m gonna have to simplify some things to make this as concise as humanly possible.

Civil War in Iceland

During this time, Iceland was primarily ruled by chieftains and these chieftains and their families became the most powerful people in the region. The most prominent of these chieftain families was the Sturlungar, hence the name of this era: they have a saga about them. They mainly controlled the west of Iceland. There were other families as well but for this rant's purposes, I'm only going to talk about the Sturlangars.

The battles fought in this era of the civil war were between these chieftain families. To add more fuel to the fire, Norway was also getting involved and Norway wanted to expand its influence in Iceland. That's one of the main reasons the conflict kept going on for as long as it did.

There was a lot of fighting between these clans and it’s considered Iceland's bloodiest century. Some prominent examples include the Battle of Haugsnes, which is the bloodiest battle in Icelandic history, as well as the Battle of the Gulf, the first naval battle in Iceland, something I find very interesting. In the end, Iceland ended up under the Norwegian crown and the rest is history.

Snorri Sturluson: Absolute Menace

He’s the catalyst for a lot of the violence that happened in this era of Icelandic history. He did do some good for Icelandic history keeping as he wrote the Prose Edda which is pretty important. Anyone who knows anything about Norse Mythology knows that the Prose Edda is very significant. It’s considered the most detailed source of knowledge for Norse mythology.

This era primarily started when Snorri was invited to Norway by King Haakon IV. At the time, Snorri was a law speaker of the Icelandic high court and a chieftain of the Sturlungar family clan. When he went to Norway, he became involved with Norwegian politics, and the king asked that Snorri help him bring Iceland under Norwegian rule.

Snorri went back to Iceland, but his loyalty to the Norwegian king was…faulty. That’s the best way to put it. He really didn’t do anything to enforce the king's will. He wasn’t the only chieftain to be a vassal for the Norwegian king, but he was a prominent one.

Snorri eventually fell out of favor with the king and even attempted a coup against him. This coup was unsuccessful and another vassal for the Norwegian king was ordered to kill Snorri. Snorri was killed in his home on September 23rd, 1241z Snorri Sturluson is an interesting guy. I would totally look more into him if you have the free time. He was very important to the era and Icelandic history as a whole.

How is this affecting our boy?

I’ve stated before that I don’t think Iceland officially met Norway until after this era in his history. However, because Norway was involved in this conflict I can see someone believing that Norway had already met Iceland. I choose to go with the former because…angst. Let Iceland go through this alone >:)

This definitely had an impact on Iceland though, this was the first time he saw violence to that degree. Look, the population may have been small, but a civil war is a civil war. He couldn’t have done much. I believe Iceland was mostly a bystander to a lot of the violence. From what we know about Hetalia's civil wars and how those work, he was still heavily affected by the violence.

I do imagine Iceland doesn’t think about this period in life often. He doesn’t like to think about it, if he’s thinking about this century then he’s thinking about meeting Norway. You could even go ahead and say he blocked this time of his life out of his head. Personally, I believe he remembers but he chooses not to think about it. Though it definitely affects him. He was really young when this all happened.

Anyway, so so sorry this took so long. I got this ask December 1st, I’m so sorry anon ;-;

Researching for this was difficult, I had sources contradicting themselves so I had to scrap a lot of further in detail analysis. If there are sturlung era experts out there who wanna help me make a way more in depth analysis then my DMs are open.

[alpaca-clouds]

Five Things I need y'all to understand about ancient religion & mythologies

Something I wanted to post as a follow-up on the little write-up on dying gods from two days ago, as well as the one on the Otherworld, was a little something. Because oh boy, I see so often that people forget about this.

See, whenever there is talk about the popular mostly lost mythologies and religions (such as Greek, Roman, Egyptian or Norse mythology) and someone says something, there is a good chance someone will come along and go like: "No, wrong!" And this brings me to the topic of this little essay.

Because a lot of people are way too certain that they have a full understanding of those old religions.

Mind you: With this I do not want to diminish anyone who actively participates in any of those religions today. But even those people have to understand, that their modern understanding of those religions are not the understanding that the people back in the day had.

So, let me put on my anthropology hat for a moment.

First: We don't know everything about any single one of them!

Okay, let me start with this: Yes, with some of these religions at least parts of them were practiced continuously, even while other religions were adapted - or forced onto the people. This is not true for all religions. I talked about how we do not know a whole lot about most of the Celtic cultures, because with first the Romans, and then the Christians, those cultures were basically completely destroyed. And while in Ireland and Scotland some small parts of the celtic religions remained, but most of it just got destroyed and forgotten. All we have left from it is stuff Christians wrote up - but coloring it through a very Christian lense. As I said before: All we know about the Tuatha de Danann is been written up in a way that references events from the bible, which very clearly were not part of the original mythology. Same is true for the Norse mythology. Researchers are pretty certain, that Loki never was part of the Norse mythology, let alone the trickster god Loki. If anything there might have been a Heath god named Loki, but not the one we know. (I know, it makes me sad, too. Because I freaking love this bisexual disaster.)

Even those cultures from who we have written first-hand records: Those records are not complete, and might also be colored by the people who wrote this. Which brings me to...

Second: We need to consider the sources.

One important thing that also gets often forgotten is using a critical lense on the sources, especially when they are written down. I note here that I really was so impressed to learn that the Brothers Grimm back then realized this and tried to rectify it. Because yes, if we look at the Edda, those are not good sources. While we can assume that some of the stuff is rooted in the actual mythology, it is very hard to parse which part is, and which was added by the Christian monks writing it down. Same with the Gaelic stuff. While, duh, the explicit Bible references we can easily discount, we also do not know what of the other stuff is real, what is deliberately false and what might simply be a misunderstanding.

And when it comes to the other Celtic cultures, we do not have any written sources but Roman ones. And of course the Romans writing this up, also had their pre-existing biases, like the Christians did. For example they assumed that one goddesses prayed to was Isis, because she shared some similarities with Isis - but let's face it: It was probably not Isis.

Same goes for a lot of other stuff. When it comes to old Indigenous Religions from the Americas, Africa or Asia the same thing often happens as well. While some of the oral tradition in some of those cultures survived, not all of it did. And sometimes the main sources we have are from colonizers.

And even with the Greek stuff: We have to also see that some of our understanding of those myths are based on stories with artistic merit, like the Odysses, that might have fudged around with the mythology just as much as modern authors do.

Third: Oral mythology is always a living thing.

This is the big thing that Christians need to understand, because actually Christianity and Judaism are more the odd ones out, as they mostly rely on the written down versions of their myths. But most religions during human history preserved their myths through oral tradition. That means they told it as stories, had songs and poems about it, and of course plays and rituals that were retelling the story. But they did not write it down. Most cultures in fact did not have any writing.

This does mean something else, too: Oral tradition is by far not as static, as written tradition is. See, while of course we kinda know that some parts about the bible were changed while it was written down, and translated and stuff, it largely remained the same, because it was a written document and we always could reference older versions of it.

But this is not true with oral tradition. While in some ways oral tradition does indeed seem more reliable - as long as the chain is not interrupted - in recording stuff (we can by now archeologically proof that certain indigenous oral traditions go back at least for 10 000 years, which is much further than any written documents we have ever found), especially mythology will be adapted in it. Which means, that if a society and their circumstances change, their myths will too.

We can see that with those traditions that mainly were transmitted orally but also were written down, like the Egyptian and Greek myths. Because there we can in fact trace the changes throughout time. Certain gods became more important, others became less important. Sometimes the parentage of gods shifted and such things. Chances are that whatever you have memorized about Greek mythology is either just a snapshot from one moment of the many centuries in which this religion was practiced, or - more likely - an agglomeration of a variety of different stages of the myths pulled together from a timeframe of multiple centuries.

Even Islam was originally transmitted orally for a while. It is part of the reason that the Qur'an is shorter and in a more poetic form, because this way it is easier to remember.

Again: The way Christianity did it is the exception, not the rule. And I would argue in some ways it is to the detriment of it, as it is less adaptable this way. (Aka: Christianity is still stuck in the 3rd century CE, when the bible was created.)

Forth: Sometimes history and mythology cannot be fully differentiated.

Another big one that a lot of people who do not professionally interact with this stuff underestimate is, how much history and mythology intermingle. Because both have often been recorded together and have influenced each other. Just to take two examples that most people will be familiar with: Troy and King Arthur.

We know that Troy as a place existed, and we are fairly certain that they had a war with Athens. However, we can also be certain that this war did not happen because of some shit some gods did, and it was probably also not fought mainly by demigods and such. What did actually happen? Well, we don't know. Partly because the only written records we have reference the mythology, and partly because the idiot who found Troy also was not a proper archeologist and used dynamite for excavation. Thank you, you old Victorian asshole. >.<

King Arthur is another one of those, though even more confusing. We are like 60% certain, that the mythological King Arthur is based on some historical dude, and so are some of the other characters in the story. But... That's about it. In this case it gets somewhat more confusing, because medieval folks REALLY latched onto that story and rewrote it to fit their culture more and more. So, yeah... It is complicated.

Another big part here is the bible. Again. Did Jesus exist? Well, there was probably a historical man who Jesus is based on. Or maybe in fact two historical men. He probably was just a preacher, and probably did not do miracles, and fairly certainly did not come back from the dead. But other than that? Hell if we know. And if we go back into the old testament it gets even more muddy. There was probably no flood, and we know for certain that the way the bible depicts slavery in Egypt was not based on the real thing. But again: Other than that? We are kinda in the dark.

And generally speaking: The further back in history we go, the harder it becomes to distinguish mythology and history. The same is true outside of Europe of course. Just think of the Japanese royal family. With them we are fairly certain that we know somewhat who they were and where they came from. But one thing is for certain: They were not descendents of Amaterasu. And there is fairly certainly no magic sword in the box that nobody is allowed to open.

Fifth: Most religions that ever existed will forever be lost.

Lastly, let me note this: Our written records go back about 5000 years, give or take. There are some older cultures that have written stuff down - like the Indus Valley Civilization - but in those cases we cannot decipher their writing. And even some of the cultures who have written stuff down, did actually not use it to record their religious myths (again: Indus Valley, but also the Norse were a great example of this). The oral traditions that we can trace back go back about 10 000 years.

Meanwhile humans have existed for 200 000 years, and maybe even a little bit more. And among anthropologists it is almost seen as a certainty that homo sapiens was always in some way or form religious. So, there are about 190 000 years of human religious practice that at most we have some possible ritualistic artefacts that we do not know shit about.

Again: We are fairly certain that originally humans revered some sort of nature spirits, that turned more and more into characters that were then projected onto animals, and from there went to humanoid gods with animalistic aspects, before turning fully human for the most part. But we do know so little about most gods that humans have prayed through over that long, long history of ours. Nor do we even know what relationship humans had to their gods. Did they fear them? Or were those gods a form of comfort for them? We do not know. We will likely never know.

Just as it is unlikely that we will even ever know the fully context of those religions we know about, but that got kinda pushed aside.

[lonely-oak-tree]

Don't really know how to post stuff here on tumblr casually, really, but hi! I've had an account for years but it's been mostly an account for reblogging and reading fanfics, but nowadays I actually want to be a part of, and interact more with people, in our amazing fandom spaces! Gotta start somehow, so here's my first post yay!

Currently making a folder for an AU idea I've had for a while and I love how I'm just sitting here on a monday researhing 800s Central European history and re-reading the Poetic Eddas for a frostcup fanfic lmao

[sqarletsworldlesswandering]

Ok, for the first time in a hot minute I'm... sorta caught up on Eclipsed a little(bar the writing itself), mostly by dint of finishing the drawing on my brain at the moment (Ceren). So:

*Squints at list* There are more, but that's enough to be going on for now.

I will make a side note that both The Fall and Shrine would probably take much longer to finish. Dissection is closest to done, Edda and Broken Face are both still sketches, and Angel Daywear is half-done.

[nochi-quinn]

exandria unlimited: divergence: episode three: dynasties and dystopias

First time doing this in notepad++ bc Fuck All That Noise, let's see how that goes

(context is microsoft is putting notepad behind a paywall)

the way it's going is I managed to get pulled away from my computer for the EXACT length of the ads lmao

yk I guess I could have used Sublime Text. ah well, I'm here now

one-shot of keph's cult when

oh celia's top is Nice

so is alex's

SO IS LIAM'S EVERYBODY STOP BEING PRETTY (don't actually)

otto no

this is just the mafia. this is how mafias start.

fiedra hugging their knees

"DON'T LOOK AT ME" mood

you can't make me cry about the kids fifteen minutes in, it's illegal

the colors in nia's art are so tasty

like a claddagh but a locket?

knowing mentor? not knowing mistress? am I misremembering something?

crokas is her kid now. joint custody with fiedra

you can't make me cry about the mom twenty minutes in, it's illegal

fiedra

AH knowing mentor same thing, interchangable god name

(I have not read Explorer's Guide to Wildemount)

okay but fast forward twenty years and torm's hill has a guard force called the seven swords

garen be nice

erro puts the team on his back

turn into goldfish and throw yourselves off

you're (mostly) level one, you're practically gods, it'll be fine

skeleton crab bucket??

"bones."

she's little, she's hard to see

"DANGIT"

"you're all under arrest"

why do I drink things while watching this, I inevitably choke-laugh

garen be nice

CAPTAIN GUBBLING

captain gubbling one-shot when

I am the snow guardian, guardian of the snow

"with our crosSBOWS"

"who doesn't like joy? you sort of have to"

GOD I wish I liked D20, brennan's NPCs are some of my favorite NPCs

"he left a boot"

"or drag a hoe" BE STRONG CELIA

(one time my brother and I got sent away from the table bc my dad kept talking about a "broken hoe" and we could not. stop. giggling.)

"is this the sea"

what is liam doing to his character's parents this time

dead parents AND dead spouse, he's going for a hat trick

crokas no

"you can't breathe down there"

crokas rushes in

if the only fire is a candle, the meal was cooked long ago

thee shield

"there has never been a week like this week"

liam

nat 20 to stealth into the trap

I'M SORRY WHOMST

YELLS

crokas solve puzzle

gee crokas how come mom lets you have TWO vestiges

patia counts, shut up

meanwhile nia gets thrown off the mountain

liana throws herself off the mountain

I was joking

I was JOKING

I stepped away, is the moonweaver hiding in liana?

oh, moonweaver WAS liana

please read edda-earth

OH nia is the proof of concept for clerics!!

moon bone cheek light bone hook hand car door man

"yeah! yeah we will!"

my roommate's been playing avowed and at one point I just turned around and went "is that fuCKING MERCER"

I just remembered that the moonweaver canonically tried to murder artagan for being a fuckhead

you broke crokas

did the orb give him an int point

it gave him SIX points!! it DOUBLED!!

can't wait for them to need those 20s later

ORB OF AVALIR

I didn't even clock the wis bump!!

no shut the fuck up immediately I will cry on you

HE MADE IT

I WILL CRY ON YOU

I STILL want someone to play cerrit's great-great-whatever descendant

"boarding a ship" shut the fuck your mouth

"I'm gonna end up carrying that, aren't I"

crokas is getting used to knowing things

"I don't know if I like smart crokas. he scares me."

does matt realize he's still "holding" the hammer

"I just realized how weird kephkedriel is"

is anyone here old enough to remember when windows would ask you Where Would You Like To Go Today when you turned the computer on

still no respect for crokas

them's ents

"would you like some magic nuts" BE STRONG ALEX

LIAM

alex fought so hard and liam just dove straight for the low-hanging nuts fruit

aw, I was wondering if he'd take draconic from the thing, I also like this better

they had to get at least one

"that's for the theatre people at home" "I'm right here" "go home"

ah yes, the magic 8 ball spell

not. what I was expecting.

"matt's running up to his bedroom"

yeet a tree onto the field

yeet a bunch of fire onto the field

matt just made me remember 311, I will be crumbling into dust presently

guys you're still only level one please

YOU'RE LEVEL ONE

GAREN ISN'T EVEN THAT

we love a tail attack

he remembered!!

BRENNAN THEY'RE LEVEL ONE

matthew

alex is in suffering

(matt and liam are having the time of their lives)

"laura bailey would be so proud"

do not say "mouthful of nut", do not say "mouthful of nut" -

dear The Dice please let him pull this off

shove IS a bonus action

aw, he can count now

"pelvically"

awakened shield!

"what time is it?" "it's clobberin' time"

dagger dagger dagger

well. crossbow dagger dagger

fuck yeah unicorns

these fucking nerds

I ship these old men so badly

thousand burning suns, etc

"flecked with white stone" I WILL CRY ON YOU

"I will cry as much as I am asked" "usually you have to pay good money for that" matthew

"I'm not carrying it"

ofc they made this silly moment heartwarming/breaking

alex you have to stop quoting stuff under your breath. I understand, I am that person. but also.

this is what breaks garen

big "ELVES CAME FROM SPIRITS" energy

"by road's end" BRENNAN

armley

his house is named sleevely

bc you keep your armleies in y- [giant hook yanks me off stage]

key's cursed

key punned, yeet the key

this is the lockpick thing merle had in balance

"I wish I was still dumb"

quick get fiedra a ukelele so she can apologize properly

MAH BOI

[elderly stammering]

garen get on that fucking boat so help me

GAREN GET ON THE BOAT

insight check the key

cross-examine the parrot

"whatdayisit"

[incesthemes]

since you asked me this question for wincest wednesday...what are YOUR headcanons on the boys' knowledge of languages? :o

YES THANK YOU!!!!!! :) i love talking about languages and supernatural and languages in supernatural

so when i first watched through the show, i actually had a pretty extensive list of languages i thought they would have reasonably acquired some knowledge on:

classical languages (latin, classical greek)

native north american languages (particularly of the siouan and uto-aztecan variety, and navajo, all for geographical reasons)

some modern italic languages (spanish, french, italian, etc), maybe less so modern germanic languages

some old norse (mainly via the two eddas)

some japanese, picked up later in the series and mostly by dean (to honor bobby's memory)

some other ancient or dead languages (aramaic, sumerian, old english, etc)

a very small spattering of enochian, whatever is available for humans to learn

american sign language (sam only)

my reasoning for this was for practical reasons: these are the languages of the cultures that the monsters they hunt originate from, and so the lore is going to be accessible only or predominantly through those languages. especially later in the series, you see them interacting with non-english texts quite often (whether or not they know the languages in question is up to that episode writer's whims, i guess, continuity be damned). i also like the interpretation of both sam and dean as being highly self-educated, and since they're both rather serious about hunting, this would be a natural extension of the knowledge they'd need to acquire to actually excel in their work. for this headcanon, i really like dean being more practical in his knowledge of languages and sam being more academic because it aligns with their areas of specialty in hunting :3

HOWEVER, when i started my rewatch, i also watched the pilot commentary with eric kripke, and he said something very striking to me:

Blue collar, low tech guys and their weaponry should be blue collar, greasy, worn down. It's always been really important to me. I'm mean—I'm just—I'm from a small town in Ohio, and you know, it's always been important to me that these guys just be, you know, Motorheads... and... love classic rock... and know how to handle a chainsaw, and that was to me, more interesting than—spells and magic. And... even to this day in the writer's room they always bring that stuff up, and I'm always like, 'Forget it! Where are the chainsaws?'

it's very obvious in the final product that this was the intention of course, and as i continued to watch i kept this vision in mind. there are three things that have stood out to me since then:

in 1x04, sam tells dean that "christo" is latin for god. it's actually greek (for christ, not god), and it would also be in the wrong declension, which could imply that sam actually isn't really familiar with greek or latin. this could imply that sam is actually just parroting something he's been told in the past (probably by john), without actually knowing it himself

in 2x04, dean flips through a book in ancient greek, and later when they dig up angela's coffin, they find more greek lettering on the inside. dean calls the letters "symbols" which could imply he's not familiar enough with greek to even know what kind of writing system it has, or to recognize greek writing for what it is. sam, too, seems equally baffled at the "symbols"

in 5x05, sam interviews a hispanic woman in somewhat awkward spanish. when dean asks about it, sam replies "freshman spanish," meaning he hasn't learned beyond a freshman, introductory level of the language, and that he learned it through formal education rather than on his own

these moments are super important to me because they really cut through the idea that sam and dean have extensive or even moderate training in foreign languages. instead, they paint the picture of rather sheltered kids who were largely kept away from the world or only limited in their exposure. i imagine, from this, that john was the one who did most of the research on their hunts, and if sam or dean participated they were relegated to controlled, prescribed roles. especially from the 1x04 example, i can extrapolate that they probably haven't examined the information they've been given too deeply; it implies a level of blind trust in john's skill, to the extent that sam isn't even aware of what language he's speaking in to reveal a demon.

as a result my most up-to-date headcanon is that sam and dean both grew up entirely monolingual, and that they didn't actually even start acquiring new languages (sam's freshman spanish exempted) until their network was cut out from under them (bobby's death and then garth's disappearance) and they found the bunker, with its myriad resources to research and study and its stability to house a library for those purposes. before then, i can see them picking up on very minor latin, like a few words here and there, but not actively pursuing any of this learning until they were forced to learn it themselves. what languages they know or how deep their knowledge goes is wildly contradictory in canon so that means i can do whatever i want, which is exactly the point where i wrap back around into my initial headcanon and start adding those languages back into their bunker era repertoire of skills.

(for the record i do generally have opinions about how much they each know of each of those languages and where their strengths in language learning lie, because i think WAY too much about this)

to my own dismay (as a lover of languages and linguistics), i've found this interpretation to be much more in-line with kripke's vision of the show, whether or not the more subtle details were intentional or not (seriously, who on the set of this show decided on "christo," i NEED to know). It also gives an interesting dimension to their early life as being highly sheltered and isolated and kept away from the hunting life while simultaneously being inescapably part of it.

this is a really long way of saying "monolinguals," but in my defense i've been building this interpretation and headcanon for nearly a year straight now. because i pay way too much undue attention to the use of language in supernatural.

[octahedral-chaos]

Have a ramble about Unnamed Pathless-inspired AU because I AM THINKING

So Edda revived Aven and recreated the universe, which ended up killing her. HOWEVER, her essence ended up becoming these guardian beings who take care of the new universe (Think Minor gods of sorts), and are called "Light Guardians" by the locals (Which might be humans? Not too sure).

Light Guardians take the form of animals, mostly being chimeras between two or more animals, with white fur/ scales/ feathers/ etc and blue eyes, as well as light blue markings. I'm thinking also halos too, or maybe faceless? There are 9 known Light Guardians, but there could be more. All of them are based on a specific concept, such as elements, emotions, travelling, etc.

Light Guardians are also sapient, and despite being unable to talk, they can understand human language. They can also use elemental magic (Most use lightning and/ or ice. Some can use fire and/ or wind. At least 1 can use transcendence magic).

However, something happened and many of the Light Guardians were corrupted. Basically magical rabies, they went berserk and the land was cast into darkness... literally. Ever since that happened, constant thunderstorms and other disasters became a norm, and there was no blue skies for a long time. The Light Guardians would also kill anyone they see, now beings of complete utter rage and hatred.

All except one, of course.

The Light Guardian of the Night, Máni. A noble steed with massive wings, Máni hid for a long time. Yet there was something odd about them, even before the corruption of the other Light Guardians. They seemingly have memories of a previous life, blurry yet unmistakably there. A life in a land very different to the one they call home. Yet those memories felt like a part of them, yet they do not understand it.

And we have our Protagonist of this story: Aven. Aven was revived by Edda, who was overcome with grief. He spent a long time unconscious, until he woke up in an unfamiliar land. Confused, he tried calling out to Edda with no success.

And then it hit him.

At first, he was terrified. All alone in an unfamiliar world where massive monsters roam and disasters happen at every opportunity. This must be a cruel joke, right? Surely this was a bad dream and he'll wake up, right?

Until he met Máni, and realised that this was, in fact, reality.

Cue Aven and Máni wandering the lands, clearing the corruption and restoring the Light Guardians to their former glory. However, Máni does think Aven looks a little bit... familiar.

AKA: Aven gets thrown into a fantasy setting and has to help a God-horse with saving other God-animals-