#it wasnt canon at first but then I realized lore can happen

[echoes-in-echoclan]

Because I didn't want to wait + y'all got it on the dot here's the next page early early <3

Auburn's mom is named Jackal!

Moon 0 

Moon 41.2 - Moon 41.4

[bawkrya]

infodump. now !!

WEEEEEEEEEEEE

ok so im going to keep this singular ask topical (the others r goign to b unrelated) and talk about my bitch Norve & co. Note, im following my own lore and taking what i like from canon and doing what i want with it. not following canon strictly WHATsoever

This is the Great King Norve, or most commonly known The Holy Flail/Jhortanas Holy Flail. have his sexy gijinka wip too

as his title implies, he belongs to the Plaguebringer! Norve is said to be among one of the first followers of the Plaguebringer, but he wasn’t quite a dragon when he was born. He was more of a bundle of untamed magic that managed to gain enough sentience to begin trailing after a god, which happened to be a really young Plaguebringer. The Plaguebringer saw just how fucking Potent his magic was at the time and was like wow, that could be useful, and snapped up this ball of magic and forged him into a Flail to be used during battle.

Any time this mf struck something, it would basically be an insta kill. His spikes were always coated in Plaguebringers most dangerous shit, like wyrmwound soup type shit, on top of being coated in “perfumes”, so even breathing too close to him could get someone very sick very fast.

After the war between Plague and Nature settles slightly from the beginning, he gains a physical dragon form, which ideally would be an imperial but i dont see that happening for me anytime soon, but also like he wasnt really a modern dragon breed ofc. He was like, a REALLY really proto-type plague breed that never saw the light of day for a good while, but eventually he would be pushed into other forms because of how unstable it was, on top of his already fucky magic.

Norve. LOVED the plaguebringer. VERY passionately. he had no basis of what is considered modern romance, so for us in the present time, he would seem near obsessive of her. He was at her side at basically all times, if he wasnt in dragon form he would be a flail latched onto her in some way, etc etc etc, she did Not leave his site, and vice versa. This dedication to her became pretty well known, so he’s documented in a view historical texts as a Worshipper & Weapon of the Plaguebringer.

so, BECAUSE of how much he adored her, a lot of mfs are confused as to like. why the hell he’s against her now. After a more “recent” aka 2000 years ago war between Plague & Nature yet again, Norve very Very suddenly pulled away from the Plaguebringer with little to no stated reason why. He was still a dragon, he had his Own following under the plaguebringer and was responsible for a lot of shit, he was event connected to the sprites and goblins and shit so its like. Hello? but he was like. Fuck you guys. and dug a hole in the ground as far as he could. which is how he meets Pentes!

Pentes is the Lord Alluvium! He was quite literally mud when King Norve found him, and norve only realized he was even there bc he tried digging into him and pentes was like Hey. Kill Yourself. and norve was like wow. ok?

So norve puts this mf in a JAR and carries this sprite bitch around until Pentes eventually gains a “Dragon” form by pure exposure from Norve. Norve, again, is a very potent magical guy, so its stupid easy to just gain magic if you cant die from poison from him. which is what happens with Pentes! Pentes had his own magic tbf considering he had sentience, he just didnt have enough cultivated to take on a proper form that wasnt Mud. 

But he does take that form! They become besties, and Pentes eventually takes over an old Plague civilization and becomes the Eternal King, which is how he ends up marrying Xanthia, and he gets his own mess of drama because Pentes is for a lack of better words a cunt

anyways while Pentes is stirring shit, norve heads over to Old Light Area and finds Trolen!

trolen is a Proto-Imperial, meaning he was one of the very first made, and is absolutely RIDDEN in shade-muck, so much so that he can technically be considered an Emperor due to accidentally absorbing some mfs. It’s only really apparent in his horns though

so instead of just suibaiting norve, Trolen actually tries to kill him when they first meet.

Im still hashing out the details of their first meeting bc its supposed to be really intense, but these guys are gay. they end up just infatuated with each other. its supposed to be “downlow” but deity esque beings really dont know how to be downlow, so one of Trolens titles is literally King’s Wife. She’s old as hell, makes emperors bc she thinks its funny, and eventually moves down to the giant fucking hole that Norve dug and turns it into a literal castle that has the same vibe as the Lord Darkness’ castle from Legend 1985 LOL

slightly before they met though, Trolen created Anura

anura this sexy bastard is a problem child. to Trolens standard. hes also very much a “YOURE NOT MY DAD” kid to Norve, so while Norve claims him as his son when it comes to religious shit surrounding him on top of political, they dont really talk. LOL. so norve doesnt rlly care about whats going on between anura and trolen in the present, he only rlly cares if trolen starts to get like, actually upset by whats happening, but trolen doesnt take anura seriously enough rn to be mad abt him rebelling LMFAO.

more recently tho, Anura got a baby Emperor sister named Marigold

and this one norve DOES claim to be his little baby daughter that he loves so much and spoils to death because HE helped make her      (he chose the imperials trolen used)

Marigold is really obedient, but Anura is like 90% sure its because of how young she is (shes 50~ yrs vs Anura being a couple thousand), so hes holding out on her starting to turn on Trolen, which is when he’ll take her in. She doesnt really like Anura rn tho. but she LOVES norve and if she isnt hanging out w her mom she is hanging out with her dad. No one knows why Trolen made her tho bc he was pretty blatant that it wasnt for any sort of “family” thing, he wouldve just revived a singular one instead of using a lot of energy for a triple head, so its made a lot of dragons anxious bc whoops another holy war might happen heehee!!!

which that fear is only worsened bc norve is having gay sex with the harvest god.

So. Norve created the dragons of vermin right like theyre the vermin thats what all of these guys are apart of, and as of 100 years ago, Locust joined the dragons of vermin. he is one of the twins that make up the Insecta Kings, and they are the gods responsible for Harvest and etc. Right. so theyre the opposite of the vermin! So why the fuck is one of the harvest gods in the vermin gang and banging the leader.

thats something trolen also wants to know, but many are speculating its because of Norves recent call to murk the fucking Grand Deities (aka Plaguebringer/Gladekeeper/etc.). Locust is a very sleazy/greedy bitch and he wants NOTHING more than to gain as much power as he genuinely can. Hes unfortunately a very polar opposite of his brother Mantis, and just does Not give a proper shit for the people who worship him, and its mostly because hes had no genuine exposure to “human” (dragon rather) mortality or in general experience. Basically he cant bring himself to have empathy for something he knows nothing about personally

anyways so hes been striking deals with Norve in order to push for the killing of the Grand deities, and in the mean time norve accidentally informed him hes gay, which really sucks for the last two wives that Locust killed bc he panicked when he started talking to women. like you couldve told him that sooner?

ok thats all i have for my brain right now. my Lorekeeper Adrasteia holds a current wip that goes into a bit more detail of the individual vermin bitches, on top of the lads having tidbit information in their bios themselves except for like, Norve and Marigold.

[thepalecascade]

Awake at 5:30am for some god-awful reason and I just realized....

I TECHNICALLY dont have a WoL? Not in an OC sense, at least.

Gonna slam some OC lore below the cut. Why below the cut? Well...

For Pyha Specifically: CONTENT WARNING - MENTIONS LOSS OF CHILD. Pyha is the Green Text if you wish to skip it.

My main character, Pyha, isnt a WoL. However she gets dragged into a lot of side-MSQ stuff since her brother IS that universe's WoL. She's put through hell and back for the ShB storyline. Being so close to the WoL, she was one of the people pulled from her body and into the First. Unfortunately--and unknown to both her and her partner--Pyha was pregnant with the twins that WOULD have been her first-born children. But, as you can imagine, having no soul to regulate your body and your body slowly deteriorating... Doesnt end well in the scenario.

Vystra is a background NPC that works as a vendor in Revenant's Toll. She's a Weaver from Fallgourd Float that lives and works with her two older sisters (A Leatherworker, and a Goldsmith). She is pretty much completely untouched by MSQ. She's around during the Rising Stones era, and is actually pretty devastated when she's told G'Raha locked himself in the tower. She considered herself friends with pretty much all of the Sons, since she would do a lot of clothes mending for them.

My closest to a WoL would be my borderline lore-breaker, Vali-Sul. Odd name, huh? Well-- She's a Mystel from the First. However, her First is not the one the canon WoL saved. In her timeline, Emet wasnt there to fight the WoL, so the WoL had no way to discharge the accumulated Light. And what as going to happen if the WoL didnt get rid of the Light?

Vali-Sul watched as her WoL succumbed to the Light, becoming the Final Lightwarden. Her world could not--and would not--survive a second Flood. The world around her was washed away, including the Scions that they could no longer save.

In a last ditch effort, the Exarch attempted to save a handful of people by reversing the teleportation that had once brought the Warrior of Light to the First. Yet, his energy rapidly drained from attempting to hold the Crystarium's barrier against the Flood. With his rapidly declining Aetherpool and the Tower having none to spare... He could at least allow Vali to escape--even if it was against her will.

The reason I say Vali-Sul is my closest to a WoL without being a WoL is because she's technically my Ancient as well. An Ancient that once went by the name of Nyx, but had long since forgotten her own name or from whence it came. Chances are, she's likely existed on the First for as long as, if not longer than the Exarch. She was poor at the Creation (Spatial Manipulation) magic many Ancients bore, but otherwise excelled at a decently uncommon Temporal Manipulation.

G'Raha had intended to send her to the Source. But Vali's own magic, one she had long since forgotten, sent her across the very fabric of time. To a place where she and hers never failed their mission.

Lets just say that despite the several confused and concerned looks she got, Vali was a little emotional about seeing G'Raha and the Scions again.

[jukemaid]

i completely forgot about this important tam lore from shb but i remember now so:

established canon is that she Was the 1.0 wol, but lost the memories of that time like the others due to the calamity and louisoix's gambit to save her group (whether or not the others survived will likely never be known). it wasnt for very long but it established a LOT of her relationships, so the sudden hole in her memory and heart was a sore point that whole time 2.0 and onward.

minfilia remembered tho. she had intended to talk to tiamat about it and how she knew her from before, and how tam helped the circle (louisoix is the one and only person shes ever refered to with an honorific, as "master louisoix"), but the events of 2.x made that... never happen. not enough time and too many things taking greater priority

BUT. thancred was aware of this. he didn't know the details, but minfilia confided in him about remembering and how guilty she felt for not immediately spilling, esp considering how much pressure they were putting on tiamat

then minfilia died. and thancred said nothing. for years. while at the same time tiamats mental health rapidly declined to her breaking point going into 5.0

thancred had character development while on the first and was ready to come clean about a lot of junk, but he had five years to work through things. tiamat had zero time between one fight and the next

SO eventually the truth comes out and thancred admits that minfilia knew her from before the calamity, and wanted to talk to her about it, but was always pulled away by something else. he makes it clear how guilty she felt, how guilty HE felt for not telling her. and when tiamat realizes that thancred had been lying to her and keeping her own past as the wol from her all those years (something that she had been desperately trying to salvage)... she comes completely unglued, physically attacking him with her bare hands and just generally going fucking apeshit on him

so comes the climax of the tam and thancred story arc where she beats the everloving shit out of him without any weapons or armor, while hes fully geared. she does not hold back and he allows it, and if anything lightly goads her. she needs the outlet and thancred truly believes hes the only one who can endure her wrath (literally as a tank), and deserves the most to take it

eventually her rage spills over onto the other scions for various things they did to her up through 4.x, and thancred, like a good tank, keeps her attention on him. shes not stupid and knows why hes making himself specifically into her main target, and is just too angry to care. by this point alphinaud convinces alisaie and ryne to get the exarch while he stays there, bc out of all of them alphinaud was there with her the longest and they went through hers and their worst tragedies together, so he can understand her best... but if push comes to shove hes well aware what their friend is capable of when shes mentally unstable. they might need the big guns (the exarch has been the only stranger shes held her tongue over for some reason)

tiamat tires herself out. the exarch shows up with the girls and is less than pleased to see her and thancred bruised and bloody, tho thancred is in remarkably good spirits about the whole thing and makes light. its very awkward and tiamat looks like she wants to cry, so the exarch guides her away to somewhere more private so she can recover and he can ask Some Questions

and thats it

tldr minfilia remembered 1.0 but didnt get to tell tam. thancred knew about it and didnt tell her either despite having plenty of opportunities to do so. tam does not like this news and splits her knuckles on his face

[insertdisc5]

Hi!! I wanted to ask, in celebration of Deltarune CH. 2, do you have any updated thoughts and head canons about the game?? Like, y'know, similar to a previous ask about Kris in your Deltarune tag? Thanks!

thoughts on kris part 2 i guess???? (part 1 from ch1 here lol)

spoilers for deltarune like woah. this wont be kris focused just random thoughts on everything. thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk

not that many thoughts for this chapter tbh! EDIT LOL: this was a lie i have a lot of thoughts

-just in general i feel like the player isn't the only one controlling kris... like yes the player forced kris to do what happened in the snowgrave route but AT THE SAME TIME idk it feels like there's someone else too. just because of the terrifying voice i suppose. and also the jerky movement kris does every time they get their soul out? unless there's another reason for it... maybe getting your soul out means you walk weird lol

-BUT ALSO i feel like kris is 100% in control when they create fountains. idk it just makes sense kris would create them. to create another world, a better world, A WORLD WHERE THEIR BROTHER IS HERE PERHAPS? i do wonder why they get their soul out then though. i'm all for it sweetie! do whatever! i support you!

-(i am and will be playing deltarune with only kris' best interests in mind. i will not hurt anyone unless kris wants me to. dont worry my little meow meow im on your side! talk to me! no? okay ill stay under the sink its fine)

-speaking of asriel. SUMMER VACATION COLLEGE WHEN? SUMMER VACATION COLLEGE WHEN? SUMMER (starts crying) V-VACATION COLLEGE WHEN

-kris misses their brother so much it's so sad. if you make kris steal 5$ from asriel they take it "reluctantly"? talking to asriel online so often even alphys knows?? the google search?? GOING INTO ASRIEL'S GOOGLE SEARCH ROOM WITH THEIR EYES CLOSED BECAUSE THEY'RE CONVINCED THEY ALREADY KNOW WHATS IN THERE? THAT ONE IS LESS OF A MISSING THING BUT IM LIKE OH MY GOD

-the city walk with susie at the end makes it clear to me that kris really values susie's friendship... kris even sits with her if you spend long enough near the lake like aaaaah ;_;

-and even in snowgrave you spend your last acts with the final boss calling for your friends like YES there's a way bigger creepy aspect to this (kris as more of a Leader who Commands and commands their subjects to come) but still :'0 (and then noelle answers oh my god noelle im so sorry for the trauma)

-berdly. listen. listen. listen. liste

-berdly sucks but [berdly hurts his arm in the battle against queen if you don't save him because he doesnt want to hurt you] [berdly realizing smg's wrong in snowgrave and immediately taking steps to save noelle] berdly is my little crumb nugget. i will protect him.

-noelle. noelle. girlboss!

-like ooooh listen. hearing about the genocide path for undertale. made me go "that is SO COOL. i HAVE to experience it myself this is great. hehehe killing time" and like no regrets. i was fully enjoying the experience knowing i was an awful person. SNOWGRAVE THOUGH. i will never try this myself its too fucked up. casually grooming your childhood friend to murder people <3 and also acting like a weird stalker towards her <3 stockholm syndrome speedrun i will get all the info i can about this but i will never do this myself

-people remarking the kris/player>noelle relationship is similar to the relationship between player>chara in genocide path is like yes. chefs kiss. don't worry we just are making you stronger and everything will be fine "you made me kill my friend? and for what?" this is fine sweetie don't worry about it!!!!!!

-like the amount of details added to snowgrave, like if you equip noelle's watch she notices later? and her battle animations change as time goes on, she gets an ice shield and stops sighing in relief after battle? oh my god? oh my god.

-(berdly is not awake.) JUST KILL ME RIGHT HERE I HAVEN'T STOPPED THINKING ABOUT BERDLY NOT BEING AWAKE!!!!!

-also why didnt he turn into dust. so many possible reasons. is magic a thing in the normal world and perhaps no magic means no dust (theres graves). maybe he isnt dead. maybe hes braindead. maybe he'll come back. either way that boy is now in the closet big enough to put someone in

-also dess' name probably being december AND THATS WHY NOELLE LOST THE SPELLING BEE?!?!??! FUCK ME UP!!!!! JUST FUCK ME UP!!!!!!! OH MY GOD!!!!!!

-also so many good pixel art this chapter. too many? i didnt need pixel art of cardboard noelle falling on the statue. like thank you but please. please it hurts my game artist brain.

-the expressions in this chapter were also top notch. all the unsettling noelle expressions like (i fall over face first)

-i threw away the ball of junk (which i already tried in ch1) and this time the game was like "ARE YOU SURE BC THIS IS A BAD IDEA" and kris felt bitter :'( (it deletes all your items in the dark world)

-i uh fucked up and skipped the susie+noelle scene bc listen last time ralsei mentionned seeing what susie is doing we missed some PRIMO LORE. turns out it just makes you skip the scene and you dont get anything new. welp

-speaking of ralsei well you know. he exists. but im stuck on him going "i just wonder what being ralsei-like even is...?" ralsei my dude there's so much i could say about this. do you feel like you can't be ralsei-like because you feel like you have to be asriel-like

-but also that makes no sense bc susie hasnt even mentioned ralsei looks like asriel. and i cant imagine asriel being so meek. so WHAT GIVES

-ralsei as kris’ “i wish i was a monster just like my bro and family and i’d look like asriel but with red horns [THE HALLOWEEN COSTUME] and my name would be something cool like ralsei instead of a boring human name like kris and im sweet and cute because thats how i act with asriel because ASRIEL MADE ME” theory because that would be cute.

-ASRIEL GOING TO THE CHURCH TO CONFESS HIS "SINS" WHEN "SINS" AREN'T A THING IN THE ANGEL BELIEF LIKE I KNOW THIS INTERACTION WAS TREATED AS A JOKE BUT WHAT THE FUCK ASRIEL?

-kris definitely has a connection with the big red door in the city, judging by what the kids say they probably went there... i feel like this place's dark world will be the Final Dungeon you KNOW some shit happened there. also the sounds you hear when you go there is the phone dark world call's sound slowed down? AND AFTER SNOWGRAVE APPARENTLY YOU CANT HEAR IT ANYMORE? HUWAH?

-speaking of songs the songs were all so good, My Castle Town rules, the berdly snowgrave music is stuck in my head, flashback is uwah wuahah, Until Next Time is so good, AND ALSO A FRIEND NOTICED THE DARK WORLD CITY THEME IS JUST tHE SONG 74 (MOST NOTICEABLE WITH THE SNOWGRAVE VERSION)?????? WHAT DOES IT MEAN????? it might be just "hey its just reuse" BUT MR FOX YOU KNOW WE'RE GONNA READ INTO THIS IS NOELLE THE ONE SINGING IDK BRO!!!!!!!!!!

-asgore dreemurr fired from the force what happun!!!!! game theory is that asgore is related to dess' death/disappearance but eh who knows

-you start the chapter at lvl2 and get to lvl3 after the final boss, a friend mentioned this is probably because we destroyed a world and im :0

-to go back to kris it's still so interesting to figure out who they are based on how they act/people mention them. like kris shaking the ferris wheel car? yeah makes sense i can imagine a pranking kid do this. kris' dance? yeah thats a little silly but i can buy it. doing cool anime poses? well i dunno this doesnt line up PERFECTLY but sure. BUT EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS IN SNOWGRAVE... especially >proceed like that is such a weird thing that i can't imagine them doing, but i can't completely see the "player" doing either (compare with going to sans -which kris doesnt know- and going "SANS!" because of course the player would know sans), like THATS one of the reasons i feel like there's someone else in there. the weird robotic merciless actions. if im going super meta it feels like there'd be someone else like writing the choices into existence for us to pick you know? gaster probably? god i need to read more gaster theories i completely sidestepped the gaster shit bc i wasnt interested. anyway just spitballing

-(looks at big shot guy) please dont make him the next tumblr guy i beg you

-obligatory "queen was great" mention if only because this part made me laugh a little bit too hard

that was a lot. thank you for letting me talk

[complete-clownery]

so like--you would be suprised how complicated this is like--

Lets take the canon that we know about stickfigures exist naturally on the internet but there is one thing about them: all of their heads are filled in(?)/(whole???) and only the stickmen that are hollowheads (like my boy Cyan) are made by someone (Alan) cuz im pretty sure everyone has noticed that the only hollowheads are the one made by Alan (TDL TCO TSC Victim) and i think its interasting since according to a fan analysis their power is decided by their name for example: first ever stickfigure, victim they didn't have powers they were normal sticks, TCO: their name is literally the Chosen One soo i dont think i have to explain the power that comes with it. TDL: same thing TSC: also the same the stickfigure just decided to be alive,, it wasnt the same way the others were made (ill look for the amazing analysis and put it here for you to read)

Now what about Cyan/Carlos weell i have made things so much more complicated than it needs to be like-- the whole thing started out as a joke and now i have to think of lore and maybe ideas about how would they interact with the other sticks. Anyways back to our topic--- Cyan is a hollowhead who is created by someone. There are three pahts we can take with this one (i already know which one will i chose but ill break it down for yall) so---

1. Alan made them: now this one would be logical and it explains itself since Alan is the one who made all the hollowhead sticks so it would be an easy answer. But like --- why would they make one?? Why would they create a new stick, if i were to chose this one this would be a very complicated thing to think about and i dont think i would be happy with the stuff i would come up with, sooo not this one--, also Alans sticks all have very simular powers Cyan wouldnt fit in with the rest

2. I made them: this is a boring option in my opinion also i dont really like to include myself in stuff like this so noo

3. Nameless creator we dont know about made them: i was thinking this could be the best one i got. Someone saw Alans videos and was like-- "wait i wanna do that" and they create the child Cyan. I was thinking maybe they lived happily together, the stick and the creator, but something happened to the computer, so now cyan is stuck on the internet looking for their lost friend the creator, who probably taught them how to do origamis.

Now about powers- which i messed up as well--- cyan is a name like victim they shouldnt have powers but after i made the art and answered the question have i realized how badly have i once again messed up but whatever let me try and make it make sense: so ngl victim sounds kinda miserable soo we are just going to act like cyan/Carlos holds more power to the name- not as powerful as TDL or TCO but they still have funky little powers. i imagine how both the creator and the stick freaked out when "oh wow you are so talented you made your first origa-- OMG IT FUCKIN MOVES?!!"

[safetyrat]

My take on the Jack Manifold being killed by Tommy discussions

This is written so someone who isnt caught up can understand, so lets start at the beginning, Jack Manifolds ad Tommys relationship. Irl Jack and Tommy are very close, but I don’t think they had a strong established relationship in character before exile, especially because Jack was mia for a lot of lore? Many relationships on the smp get taken from the ccs dynamics before the smp (wilbur and tommys mentor/brotherhood, puffychus date), which is why they have been interpreted as close? Jack was part of lmanburg and they have interacted for sure, so I think its fair to say they were friends in roleplay, even if not like,, best friends

during exile, jack visited Tommy- well, tried to visit. Tommy punched him off the bridge in the nether and made sure he died. Jack lost all his stuff and was pissed offed - but that was about it.

The tone of the visit could maybe be compared to the one with Mamacita and Mexican Dream? It was in character, but it wasn’t... serious?

It feels wrong to call it “friendly banter” when mexican dream died, but you cant call it a “Building Character Moment For TommyInnit” either. Jacks visit was similar.

At that point, neither Jack nor Tommy refered to the death as “canon” - the wiki did, however. Not sure what happend there, but it was listed as Jacks second death and when he died on Doomsday, went to hell and back - that part of lore doesn’t work without Tommy killing him.

After Jack came back from hell, he started a bigger character arc with Niki revolving around taking revenge on tommyinnit. Killing him until he is dead permanently. And while that is not presented as the right thing to do - both niki and jack consider their characters villains - its not irrational or without motive.

Tommy has made mistakes and hurt people - whether these were justified is in the eye of the beholder.

For Jacks arc right now, Tommy killing him is an important motivator and a driving point for his plot. Nothing about Jacks current character would be the same without it. Because he acknowledged the death and it was on the wiki for the longest time, its generally considered canon by the fandom.

So, case closed? Tommy killed a man while depressed in exile- yeah, that doesn’t sound right.

A Tommyinnit analysist pointed that out,, earlier today? Thats why we are having this discussion right now. I’m not sure they would appreciate me mentioning their username here, but ive read their analyses before and theyre great, they have a lot of interesting thoughts, and i agree with them bringing this up!! please never send hate to anyone about character analysis!! some people (like me) actually do this for fun.

so, i dont want to touch exileinnit to much, there is a lot to talk about, but... TommyInnit would kill somebody without a second thought. Canon deaths are heavy, theyre big, theyre- and you cannot compare this to punz killing wilbur! Yeah, that wasnt a big character moment for punz, but on one hand hes a mercenary, killing people is kind of part of his job, and on the other hand- the story around lmanburg is not a character focused one, thats a big part of wilburs writing. His main goal is progressing the geopolitical plot and let the character be shaped by it - themes like personal conflict seem less big when there is the fate of a country on your hands.

The exile arc is an entirely character focused story. It deals with themes like mental illness and inner turmoil... do you think it would pass the chance on discussing tommys feelings about killing someone? A past friend, no less?

Murdering someone, on purpose, completly changes the morality of tommys character, and im not ready to commit to that.

There are more reasons I think this, ask me to elaborate if you want, but in my eyes there is no way that Tommy could kill someone in exile with it still being consistent with his character.

So, whats the conclusion?:

TommyInnit killing Jack Manifold is canon in Jacks story, but isn’t canon in Tommys. There is no other way eithers devolopment makes sense otherwise.

This is it. An inconsistency. A plain old plothole.

Oh no, the cinematic masterpiece (/s) that is the dream smp has a plothole, what do we do now?:

...move on? There is no way discussing this will change anything. This type of inconsistency is unique to the dream smp as a medium where the creators have a direct dialogue with the fanbase. This is not the first or last time the wiki has made weird deaths canon, I personally disagree that quackity and schlatt died in the explosion of tubbos execution. This doesnt do against the wiki writers or anything, you guys are so important for this community, but you do stand in direct contact with the creators - an active fan would have probably more, but more importantly different, knowledge of the lore than 90% of the members.

Dont be harsh on the fans, dont be harsh on the ccs, we are exploring a new type of mass reaching story telling here guys.

how do we still make this consistent for the storyline?:

this is where the analysis ends, we are diving more into headcanon territory, but I choose to believe that this was a canon death, but tommy didnt realize it is. In my opinion this just feeds into Jacks themes of being ignored, not taken seriously, etc.

tldr: while tommy killing jack was considered canon for a long time, it doesnt work if you want to have tommys character make sense. Instances like this, where dubious canon gets reinterpreted later happen because of the dream smps unique type of storytelling and should not be a reason for conflict in the fandom.

Thanks for reading, if any of this doesnt make sense after tommys last stream, that I didnt watch because writing this, youre allowed to personally come into my house and assassinate me.

[relaxxattack]

(i dont care to do c! tags bc theres. so many characters. if i dont say cc! then im talking abt the characters) normally i am not one to think much about the syndicate bc outside of ranboo being there to protect tubbo the syndicate Frustrates me a bit but. if phil starts to realize just how fucked over tubbo got by schlatt being erased from the narrative (and especially how shittily techno has treated tubbo) then i really hope they lean into like. the fact that the syndicate may soon turn into phil, niki, ranboo, and possibly the mystery member (im including mystery member mostly because i think tubbo is on good terms with almost everyone except like. dream, possibly wilbur but we'll see, and like the eggpire ppl but none of them are likely options but it is possible that the mystery member could just be neutral) all like. wanting tubbo to be safe and phil is *just* reasonable enough that i think he'd realize how unfair it is for tubbo to have been subjected to so much shit just for techno to introduce even more fear and the need to hide in his life

like phil already keeps the bee duo marriage and michael a secret, he lets tubbo come over and while of course its mostly from the semi lore vibes phil seems vaguely fond of tubbo already (i dont think phil and tubbo have father/son vibes tho, more just like. tubbo is just That Kid that adults cant help but adore even though the kid will rob them of house and home. slightly amused elder watching a tiny fucking gremlin make sex jokes and talk about soviet russia), niki from what i remember still cares about tubbo (probably because she cant redirect any anger towards him without realizing how unjustified it would be kcnsks she can come up with excuses for hating tommy but tubbo didnt do anything that niki has a problem with outside of her maybe having a bad view on butcher army if she knows about it?), ranboo is. ranboo. i dont need to clarify. and then like said theres a very low possibility of the fifth member *disliking* tubbo or being unable to sympathize with him.

people talk a lot about how techno needs to lose in a way that he cant easily come back from without introspection and i think while the rest of the syndicate standing up for tubbo would increase technos grudge against tubbo initially its also like. something that i think would maybe force techno to see tubbo as a person because now theres nothing techno can box (haha gettit. tubbox tubbo in a box tubbo getting boxed into certain roles by people who refuse to let him out techno esp doin this teehoo) tubbo into that wouldnt just. acknowledge that tubbo is a person. hes not apart of the government anymore, not planning any failed revolution, the most negative title to his name is being one of the nuke makers but even then thats out of fear and safety and techno knows that. otherwise tubbos current crimes are nothing thats special to tubbo (like. stealing and searching for evidence in ppls homes and stuff, the latter of which techno doesnr even know about). right now tubbos a husband, a father, a friend, a kid, *ex*-government, a person. and just.

i think that with how much foreshadowing about tubbos execution no longer being a secret amongst the witnesses and tubbo himself and soon being something that people close to techno like phil and ranboo know about as well (in that i want phil to learn that techno did it and for ranboo to learn about it in general bc hes just biased enough for tubbo and just smart enough that i think even if somehow he wasnt told who did it he could figure it out), and with the fact that tubbos lore has been confirmed to now be something thats actively going to be played into? i think (or at least hope) that it might spur phil and techno into finally seeing tubbos side of the story (and probably also get into the possibility of tubbo opening up to tommy and ranboo but i do think realistically either tubbo will try to play it off/not truly open up about how much its effected him or tubbo will at first shut down or go into complete repression mode, especially if phil and ranboo get the story from other people rather than tubbo himself [but god do i hope they confront tubbo himself]. either those two or tubbo talks about his emotions through fucking snapping at something/someone like he did at quackity when reminded of his execution, which as long as its Not tommy or ranboo ill absolutely be cheering on him for)

which is all a very convoluted way of saying uhh. *grabby paws at the ccs currently involved in the arc of clearing up personal misconceptions about l'manberg (and especially tubbos involvement and how easily those around him judged him based off of their versions of the story)* tubbo lore? tubbo healing tubbo talking about his problems? characters learning to see him as a person and recognizing how traumatized he is and that hes not uneffected but actively repressing any effects? please? (also ending note as the cherry on top of this essay that im sorry for dropping into your inbox: im kind of glad that tommys healing arc and tubbos possible healing arc are going to happen at similar times but are still separate. something something its nice to see acknowledgement that tommy and tubbo wont heal in the same way and arent going to know how to help each other but theyre still going through it together. their arcs are intertwining without removing their individuality and as someone w major co-dependency issues its kind of nice idk. you can be there for someone and still acknowledge that you have your own things to go through too and that while you wont be alone you shouldnt force those around you to support you. the bench trio are all helping each other out of free will and genuine love for each other while still realizing they have some problems they arent ready to talk about yet that arent forced to the open because theyre all doing their best to handle each other with care and i just. bench trio my beloveds. the kids are alright.) -🎭🎪 (also as the actual end note if theres ever a need to refer to me as something other than the emojis mask or eyez works fine but the idea of my name being the emojis is also Very Funny to me so do what you will)

im working on my aperture camera college assignment rn and my brain is sort of fried so i dont have an intelligent answer, but i got the happy chemical reading this.

yeah. i think we all know here that my favorite character is tubbo, and i REALLY hope we get him addressing anything that’s happened to him in canon. pretty much all of what you said sounds very good. *grabby hands* spare tubbo lore? please? spare tubbo lore?

perhaps during the three weeks wilburs off in the fucking woods (/lh) we could have a the-others-find-out-what-happened-to-tubbo-(and in DETAIL)-arc. pleaseeeeeeeee and ty

[dreamcast-official]

i was gonna send u an ask about sonic and realized that i literally know nothing about it, like i know most characters' names and that theres a story sometimes but idk how i managed to get to this point with zero information about one of the biggest franchises ever. so anyway tell me about sonic like, in general

omg. makes out with you platonically i love talking about things in general <3333

so! the first sonic game came out in 1991. there wasnt much plot, it was just little blue boy go fast beats the shit out of egg-shaped asshole who is imprisioning the little forest animals. sonic 2 came out in 1992 and it introduced super sonic, who is powered by the seven chaos emeralds - the chaos emeralds existed in sonic 1, but there were only six and they didn’t make super sonic happen. sonic 2 also introduced tails! if you wanna play a classic sonic game, sonic 2 is the one to go. it’s a really good game in general. then there was sonic 3 & knuckles, introducing knuckles (per the title) and the master emerald. the master emerald can neutralise the power of the chaos emeralds. something something echidna lore something something its too complicated!

there were more classic sonic titles after 3 but there was never a sonic 4 (technically there was but that wasnt a classic sonic game. long story). notably, sonic cd introduced amy rose (at the time known as rozy the rascal) and metal sonic - a robotic copy of sonic made by eggman.

then there was sonic adventure! while adventure is considered its own era of sonic games, you could also call it the start of the modern era, since they were the start of 3d sonic games. sonic adventure introduced the redesigns of sonic characters that are in use to this day, and it introduced one of the most iconic sonic villains in the form of perfect chaos. this was also when amy got her new name! sonic adventure 2 is considered one of the best sonic games ever, and i really like it! it introduced shadow, who - in the words of sonic boom eggman - is the second most popular character in the entire canon!! rouge the bat was introduced too, shes beloved, and theres just so much cool shit in sonic adventure 2 <333333333333333333 mwah mwah beloved

[edge-lorde]

the religion of the galactic horde

“You seem reluctant to help me. But I only wish to use your weapon to bring peace to the darkest corners of the universe. (Glimmer: Peace? If you activate the Heart of Etheria, there will be no one left.) Yes. No war, no pain. Old worlds swept aside, a new beginning for the universe.” --Horde Prime explaining his motivations to Glimmer

the horde in shera was definitely inspired by Christianity and uses a lot of its imagery, the most iconic being the baptism scene. it certainly gives off the vibes of a christian or christian adjacent cult, but what is its actual doctrine? i have some thoughts about that. 

first here are what i consider to be the 3 main differences between real christianity and the horde: 

Their jesus didn't ascend to heaven. He's still with them.

They don't have a larger creator god. They worship horde prime like he is a living god but they don't believe that he created the universe.

They have no focus on the afterlife

this is going to be long.

before i begin heres the sparknotes version of christianity for anyone not familiar. I am not evangelizing this, just think of it as LORE. 

Once upon a time there was a guy named Jesus. He was the son of the one true god, who both created everything in the universe, is everywhere and knows everything, and controls the afterlife. Jesus is god born as a mortal person, sent by god to teach all of humanity the errors of their evil ways so they can repent and go to the good afterlife when they die. There're two afterlives, a good one and a bad one, heaven is the good one and its run by god and his army of angels, which are divine beings that god can send to earth to do things. The bad one is called hell. 

Anyway, in his time on earth jesus was the only person ever to never do anything bad ever (called sin). He tried to teach people how to be good but was Too Good for this Cruel World and was killed. 3 days later he came back from the dead, proving his divinity. Some time after that however, he ascended into heaven without dying, telling his followers to spread the word because hes going to be coming back. Christians today are still awaiting his return. In the meantime, christians follow his teachings left behind in holy texts. 

The crux of christianity is to get to heaven when you die, and this can only be done by following the teachings of jesus christ, believing in god, and believing that jesus was the son of god. Its a given that everyone will do bad things at some point in their lives so you're supposed to pray to god and ask for forgiveness regularly and if you really mean it then god will forgive you. 

thats the basics. 

to my first main point from above, if we posit that horde prime is the jesus equivalent of the horde religion, because hes treated as a living god, his goal is to spread his philosophy throughout the universe, then in the horde religions jesus never ascended into heaven. this would be like if jesus in our world rose from the dead and just picked up where he left off, and never died after that and was alive today. that would be pretty good proof of divinity. 

to my 2nd point, theres nothing in the show that suggests that horde prime thinks that he created the universe. this means that he did not get his divinity from anywhere but inside himself, hes not claiming that hes the rightful ruler of the known universe for any other reason besides his ideas are the best. 

the 3rd point is that the show does show horde prime or the horde caring one bit about the afterlife, save for one line from wrong hordak.

"Brother, I hope you, too, are full of only love for Horde Prime and have no crippling doubt eating at your soul."

meaning that they have the concept of the soul. which is very interesting and ill get to it, but on the whole the hordes focus seems to be on the here and now. this is a huge departure from christianity because chrisitanity is all about getting to the afterlife. that is the reason that christians are supposed to follow christ and recruit as many people as possible to do the same, because if they dont, they or other people will supposedly go to hell when they die. i say supposedly because at funerals, even if the person who died wasnt a believer, in my experience no christian would ever ever ever insinuate that someone went to hell. 

but the difference still stands. following real christian ideology is supposed to have benefits for the individual in the afterlife, while in the horde religion salvation seems to only be found by submitting to prime in this life and being either a tool that he can use to further his goal of purifying the universe or by letting him remove you from it. 

on top of all that, horde prime has the hive mind, which he uses to control the thoughts of all his followers. this means that theres no room for a bible study, no need of a holy text at all in fact, and no room for interpretation. horde prime delivers orders to your brain directly and can tell if you think anything out of line. real Christianity does have the idea that a sin that you just think about doing is as bad as actually doing it, but in the horde these thoughts can be easily discovered and punished. 

the horde religion seems to me to be a strangely secular version of christianity with only the bad parts remaining; the control, the blind faith, the certainty that you are right and everyone else is wrong, the not questioning authority. with none of the good aspects like community, and good deeds. it is a cult in the truest sense of the word, a religion that begins and ends with one person only, that person being horde prime.

so, if you take horde prime out of the equation, what, if anything, would be left? 

i find the plight of the horde clones here to be the most interesting. we know that they do have thoughts about their religion, as it was hordaks belief that he could earn his way back into horde primes god graces that kept him going all those years in despondos, and wrong hordak is distraught when he discovers that horde prime lied about krytis. 

unlike both the chipped people we see in the show and real religious converts, the clones were born into this cult that values blind obedience only, and have no prior ideology or cultural identity to fall back on when they are taken out of it. 

so to answer this question, i must add some conjecture to horde primes backstory and how the clones see themselves in horde primes universe. I already wrote up a brief backstory idea for horde prime/the clones and have it posted on here somewhere. I'm not going to dig it up but you could probably find it in the #horde prime tag on my blog if you dig hard enough. 

To summarize it though, I have it as horde prime was once a regular (bad) dude who became a cult leader under the premise of preaching peace --> he becomes disillusioned with people and even his own followers because he doesn't actually like people, he likes manipulating them. --> this and the power of being a cult leader go to his head and he starts to think that he is the only person in existence capable of living a moral life and everyone else needs to be saved from themselves, the world would be a better place if he could just make everyone's decisions for them. --> he somehow gets a hold of the technology needed to set up the hive mind, be it by inventing it himself, stealing it, finding it, or being gifted it. 

I'll pause here to address the theory that horde prime was originally an eldritch being that simply possessed a dude who would become the template for the clones. I think there's enough stuff in the show that this is a valid read and might even be canon but i don't really care for it. For me, what makes horde prime a compelling villain is that he's a very human evil, so having him actually be an evil demon thing instead of a really bad but believable dude who got near ultimate power weakens his character. BUT, i’m not going to address it in my comic so i'll leave it open as to whether he's got that going on or not. If he is, the clones don’t know about it and neither they nor the other characters have any way of discovering it. IF he is though, it would happen here. I could see it being a cool idea for him to get the hive mind from the eldritch being that would then possess him and haunt his lineage for time immemorial as a deal with the devil sort of thing, but he has to be a bad person before that.

Anyway he gets the hive mind--> he gets all of his followers to chip themselves --> gets those people to chip everyone else on his home planet --> use his planet wide army to harvest all resources on the planet and build his first space fleet and take to the skies and start his conquest--> realize that if he is to succeed hes going to need to both become immortal and find a steady source of new followers because chipped people die eventually and he doesnt care about people enough to figure out a way to keep a self sufficient population of followers alive, he just wants people around to adore him and do his bidding--> invents his cloning system-->

and heres the big one,

his original body has to die so he can upload his consciousness into a new clone.  

and THAT, to the clones, would be the moment that horde prime becomes a god.

his reliance on the hive mind and vast network of followers are what give him his godly abilities, but just as the horde clones could not exist without being cloned from horde prime, so too could horde prime not exist as he does in the show without them. 

i see it as both a christlike sacrifice and a cyclical system of debt and sacrifice. horde prime dies for our sins, so that he might continue to purify the universe so that there will be no more death and more clones will be born, while the clone hes possessing has to essentially die by giving himself up entirely to become the new prime so all this can happen too, and to repay primes death. not all clones can become the next prime however, but all must be ready to die for him, hence horde prime having clone infantries despite also having robots he could send instead. 

i dont have clear thoughts about what the green goo is, but horde primes words about his brothers lending him their life force go along with this idea. the clones give him theyre life force, so he can give it back to them.

another interesting aspect of this is that prime always portrays himself as a brother to his followers, never a father as christ is portrayed as in christianity. i know this is from hordak and horde prime being actual brothers in the 80s show but ive seen this trope come up a few times in media before, where a man raises a kid but has them call him their brother instead of dad. it seems so deliberate. because a parents job is to take care of you, but a sibling, might take care of you sure, but thats not their job. its like hes deliberately trying to place himself on the same level as his ‘sibling’ so he can demand the same amount of respect you would give to a parent without taking on the responsibility to not... ya know... screw them over in the head? idk it seems very slimy to me. but that says more about prime as a character than how the clones see him.

and we still have the concept of the soul to fit in here somehow, and do they have an afterlife? im going to say no to the afterlife. theres just not enough in the show to go off of and everything that we do know about horde prime points to him only caring about himself in life. HOWEVER, there is nothing more quintessentially christian than the concept of hell and i think that will be of use here. 

since the creation of the clones is tied with the creation of their religion, this would put the clones themselves less as allegories of people who need to be saved and more as the horde version of angels. in my telling here, horde prime views all people who do not submit to his will as net negatives to the universe who have to be removed for peace to exist, so by this view the chipped people are the saved, the people that horde prime kills are the sinners, and his military campaign is one long apocalypse slowly working its way through the universe, with the clones carrying out his righteous judgement. but the afterlife isnt involved in this, so even if some chipped people are left alive, eventually they will all die out, and then it will be just horde prime and is clones in a perfect, peaceful starless sky, and thats what heaven is. 

getting to heaven is the main goal of real christianity and it is the same in horde religion, but heaven isnt a place in the horde cosmology, its a physical goal that has to be created. not all clones will make it to heaven of course, because most will die before they reach total destruction of the universe but the clones arent supposed to think of themselves as individuals anyway. they have to be willing to die for horde prime and die for the cause or be cast out and thats hell. 

i dont see prime as someone who would kill his own followers outright too often even though he could. plus they arent supposed to value their individual lives the same way normal people do anyway it doesnt seem like a real punishment, they need something worse than simple death to fear. so by my view hell for the clones is separation from prime. it can be in life or death. no matter how bad it is in the horde being on the outside of it has to seem worse, and thats where the concept of the soul comes in. when one is a part of the hive mine, their soul is with prime. they are not supposed to have a will or any thoughts beyond love for prime, its essentially the same as not having a soul but they think of it as being at peace. being cast out is to be never at peace and would be told to them as being the worst possible thing that could ever happen to someone because it corrupts the soul. 

“a lot of unpleasant things happen in the horde so just imagine how terrible it must be outside of it! you cant because i protect you from that. now get in the goo, this is for your own good” - horde prime probably 

this is why outsiders are so resistant to submitting to primes light and also why its ok to kill them, in the hordes view. 

so, to start wrapping thigs up, there is no horde without horde prime. the religion starts and ends with him. because he is supposed to be the only person ever to be able to make true moral and just decisions, without him is followers cant take any actions without worrying that they are going against primes will. since they have no holy text they cant extrapolate and try to figure it out either. its up in the air whether or not they are going to find a way to get the horde to make the jump from cult to regular religion.

its late i got to go to bed now

[newtedison]

my thoughts on the crank palace

i touched about this a bit on twitter (@newtedison_) but i figured i would Try and touch on my points more here (spoilers obv) again, its sort of lengthy

1. im gonna start with talking about the ending because i need to get it out of the way. either i havent read the books in a while and i forgot some canon (which could very well be true, i literally forgot that Bliss was a thing) or this ending makes no sense and is (somehow) setting up for a tdc sequel? so first off, newt was shot in the Head with a Bullet and somehow didnt immediately die? i know that that can happen in real life but it just seems so unlikely that not only would he not die, but he would survive long enough for someone from WCKD to transport him back to their labs and try to revive him. and who the fuck was he talking to? did thomas get newt’s journal at some point and i just dont remember? like i said, either im forgetting stuff or this ending doesnt make sense and is setting up a sequel which...i’ll get to later

2. why was this written? like, what was the point? i understand that this wasnt going to be all sunshine and rainbows but i feel like i was reading torture porn. like, literally all that happens is newt gets tortured (which is described in detail) by WCKD soldiers, has bouts of insane-fueled rage where he KILLS MULTIPLE PEOPLE, and then he dies. ??? what did this contribute to the canon? what was this trying to accomplish? truthfully, i never really wanted a newt-POV...well, anything except for maybe those little nuggets he wrote some time ago. but even if i HAD wanted a newt-POV novella, this is not what i would have wanted. he KNOWS that newt is almost universally the most loved character in this franchise. you can tell because he constantly uses him as a way to get fans in his good graces again. so why on earth would he take that character that so many people love and write a novella where its torture porn and a descent into madness before death? i am not interested in that At All. i’ve read fics (and even written a drabble) where newt is a Crank, and those were more respectful and easier to read than tcp. the parts where newt is having bouts of the Flare were literally exhausting to read; it was described in such vivid and torturous detail that it made me sick reading it. and it didnt help that newt is a character i care a lot about. i didn’t need to know what becoming a Crank felt like. the way it was described in the other books (and even the movies) told me everything i needed to know. the way thomas and everyone found newt at the crank palace in tdc and hes described as obviously not well, but not knowing what exactly happened to him...thats good enough on its own. the mystery of what exactly newt had to endure is part of what gives his journey more emotional depth. not everything needs to be written out and explained. not every gap needs to be filled in. 

3. me saying “the characterization felt off” is going to make some people roll their eyes because ‘duh, sami, the characterization will be off because he’s going insane’ to which i say...exactly. we weren’t really reading a newt-POV novella, were we? even if he isn’t past the Gone in the beginning, hes clearly not the same person we knew him as. the whole novella felt like an uncanny valley situation; i knew i was supposed to be reading about newt, but it felt like i was reading about someone else who looked like him. and that is part of what made this such a disconnect and made me lose interest at parts. not only that, but the world building and lore is inconsistent. newt makes a comment about how it used to rain in the glade, and apparently (as ive been told) that is simply not true. keisha having somehow working cell phone that magically connects her to her family also doesnt make sense. how would they have each others’ numbers? what are the odds that they BOTH found working cell phones in an apocalypse? i get that its a novella but you cant just throw something that crazy in there as a plot convenience. actually work on your plot and world building in a cohesive way, please. and another thing that doesnt make sense...

4. ...is newt finding out that sonya is his sister. if there was anything i would have wanted from a newt-pov novella, it would have been this. him finding out that not only is sonya his sister, but he already knows her post-WCKD. something that would have made this novella actually captivating, contributing something worthwhile to the canon that i would actually want to read, is if newt found out while in the crank palace that sonya was his sister; the Flare would remove that part of the Slice in his brain, and he would realize it was her. then, knowing that he couldnt go past the Gone before seeing her, he would try to find a way to get back to her. he could learn this after thomas and everyone originally see him, so it could match up with the canon. and then, by the time 250 comes along, hes lost all hope of that actually happening, and lashes out to thomas in a fit of rage. the journey of him trying to find his ACTUAL sister would have meant more to me than the story of keisha and dante. trust me, i love a found family trope as much as the next girl. but this series is FULL of the found family trope. it pretty much is the backbone of the franchise. so to see a blood family dynamic would have been a refreshing change of pace that i actually would have been interested in reading. also, the way that newt DOES find out about sonya is...underwhelming. he just randomly says “you remind me of my sister, sonya” to keisha in the WCKD truck. first of all, sonya is not the name you would actually know her by. you would know her by her birth name (which is lizzy? elizabeth?). second, why does he act like he didnt already meet her in the series? when the WCKD doctor tells him sonya is his sister and is alive, hes so surprised. wouldn’t he have known that already? why is there not more emphasis on the fact he already met her? that would have been a really interesting dynamic to explore, and im sad they didnt

5. the pacing and dialogue of tcp is so dragged out. i remember specifically there was a section where newt goes to talk to keisha after she starts abandoning dante, and i swear to god there was a page and a half of text before anything ACTUALLY happened or anyone ACTUALLY said anything. dashner described a launcher at one point as “the energy dependent electric firing projectile device.” that’s SIX words to describe a stun gun. a fucking stun gun! we know what it is! why did you have to use six words??? it just felt like everything was dragged and stretched to the longest it could possibly be and it added to the exhaustion i felt while reading it

6. okay i cant end it without talking about newtmas. its very obvious by now that newtmas is a VERY large part of this fanbase. its clearly the most popular ship and what keeps a lot of people interested in this series. even the marketing team for the MOVIES used newtmas as a advertising tactic (i.e.; using thomas and newt standing face to face as a thumbnail for the trailer, emphasizing newtmas based questions in interviews, even making a fucking facebook memories video for them. yes that last one is real). not only does dashner use newt as a way to lure fans in; he also uses newtmas. the parts that were sprinkled into this were so obvious that it didnt feel authentic. i cant speak for the original trilogy; i dont know the culture around ships back then, and i dont know how much it influenced his writing at the time. but the scenes in those books felt more genuine than tcp. by genuine i mean; he wrote scenes without a relationship in mind, but the chemistry had noticeable subtext that, while unintentional, was largely agreed upon by the larger audience. the parts of newtmas he added into tcp felt artificial and forced, likely as a way for people to take snippets of and use as a free marketing tool for him. one example you might have already seen; “he had already gotten used to his post-thomas, post-WCKD life.” the fact that dashner SPECIFICALLY used the phrase “post-thomas” rather than “post-his friends” or something similar shows that he is using newtmas as a hook on purpose. not only that, but to make newt’s last thoughts as he died “tommy. tommy will understand...” is...wow. first of all, i never wanted to know what newt’s dying thoughts were, but thanks, i guess? and second, when we all initially thought newt died underneath thomas with a gun to his head, i was pretty much inferred that newts last thoughts would probably be about thomas; they would sort of have to be, given the circumstances. so adding that in gives me the same feeling that “i’m coming for you, newt” at the end of the fever code gave me. not as offensive, but written very much on purpose. and the ending is implying that there will somehow be a sequel where thomas gets newt’s journal from...someone. at this point, i can only think that this sequel will retroactively make newtmas canon somehow. now that newt has been confirmed as gay, it could happen. which brings me to my last point...

7. hearing dashner confirm newt is gay was already mind-boggling before. now that i’ve read the crank palace...im angry. im very angry. i think its safe to say that newt is the character that suffers the most in this series. you can argue with me but hes definitely high on the list, if not #1. so; you take this character. you give him a horribly sad arc in the original trilogy, then decide to expand upon it and tell us, your largely QUEER fanbase, exactly how painful and torturous his last days were, in detail. and then you tell us he’s gay. something that is never mentioned in the canon, only in an offhanded reply to a tweet of someone calling you out. on a base level, i can understand why people would be happy. representation (i guess), seeing themselves in the character, having their headcanons be confirmed. great. but what i see is you telling your largely queer fanbase “hey, you see the only confirmed gay character? im going to literally write torture porn about him before killing him off and offer it to you like im providing a service to your community.” how fucked up is that? “hey, kids, if youre gay, you WILL be violently tortured and become violent and a danger to the ones you love. then you will die and your love will never be reciprocated.” what a message! and if he DOES end up retroactively making newtmas “canon” in some weird sequel...i will start foaming at the mouth. THIS is an example of how not all queer representation is good or genuine.

i’ve definitely forgotten some points but this is long enough already. let me know if you agree or if theres anything else you want to add! im interested in what you guys think

(8. I JUST REMEMBERED!!! if WCKD needed to study newt so bad bc sonya is his sister and is immune while he isnt, why did they let him run around the crank palace in the first place??? you cant test his vitals or anything you’re literally just watching him. what is the point????)

[wavebiders]

Operation: "Ignore the Shitty Live Action Winx Show and Just Rewatch the Cartoon for the First Time in Almost a Decade" part 38:

Can Every Episode Be Like This One?

My "Alfea is understaffed" theory is proving more and more canon, sincs the freaking principal is just teaching classes now

Faragonda: *explains that fairies can combine their powers*

Stella and Bloom:

Oh no Aisha😟

I mentioned last episode that I felt like they were purposely not having the girls all in one place as much anymore. That does result in Aisha feeling not truly part of the group since she hasn't gotten in on the casual bonding moments s1 was full of. Now it looks like I was right, and Aisha still not fully being a member of the Winx is an actual storyline. One that I'm very excited to see play out

Is just one episode without the Red Fountain boys too much to ask? This cast is bloated, please just have one character centric episode just at Alfea so the story actually has room to breathe

Ooookay creepy Musa stalker wall. Pls don't be Riven's. Pls don't be Riven's

Oh thank god I knew my boy wasnt like that

Ok I know that I'm a broken record about the pixies being merch bait and taking up screentime but you can't tell me that montage of them going to sleep in stylized beds wasn't literally just there so that they could sell pixies toys that came with their own beds

Aisha honey Musa is clearly thrilled to be partnered with you, they all love you

Not a love triangle. On top of all the other uneccesary romance drama this season I cannot deal with a love triangle for one of the 2 couples I actively ship😭

On a more postive note: Cutting from a romantic scene right to Stella and Bloom yes good and yes I am grasping at straws don't judge me

I kinda feel bad for this dude but also he had a creepy stalker wall so I'm glad Musa turned him down

Stella and Musa dunking on each other will never not be hilarious

Stella you fucking idot! I get the slip of the tongue cause she's still used to there being 5 of them but STILL Aisha didn't need that

Aisha's way more relatable to me now than when I was a kid. Back then I was just the weird kid so I latched onto Bloom who was that in Gardenia. But after I switched schools I ended up joining an existing friend group like Aisha did, and even without a dumbass like Stella saying shit like that, it's rough. I Am Feeling This

Musa and Bloom best girls

Stella LORE

Of course they're messing with the simulator. They realized Bloom somehow walked away from her last experience without having a trauma response to that thing and they couldn't stand for that

The Girlfriends™️ are being especially gay this episode👌

"Just us without all those boys" that's what I've been saying!! Thank you Stella

I know I joked about it before but it actually would have been interesting if they had had Bloom have a bad reaction to the simulation not going as planned. What happened with Kiko during her exam is still one of the more messed up things in the show

But with the exception of like. Avatar really exploring the effects of trauma to that extent wasn't as common in cartoons in the 2000's as it is for cartoons now. Yet another reason I want a modern gay reboot

Oh this combo magic is way cool. I hope it's not just a one episode gimmick and they keep finding cool ways to combine their powers

Yes!!! They included her in the friendship circle!

Best s2 episode best s2 episode

[mychemicalaromanticism]

things ive already established r on this post

besties this got so fucking long but heres a giant ramble about cherri

okay so. there are huge differences betwn cherri as a hyperviolent drac hunter and cherri as a friend of the four and cherri as the girls mentor. with the first one he was 17 and desperate to distance himself from his upbringing so he went all in on Being A Killjoy. he was always one of the first ppl to rush into a fight and he fought hard. he blew up his fuckin hand with that attitude. and all the while he was just racking up more unaddressed trauma and eventually he ran away from that, too. giving himself radiation poisoning was more appealing than facing his problems.

so as a teenager/young adult hes kind of constantly in a panicked state. hes scared the people from his past are going to find him and drag him back with them. so he lashes out and he runs away over and over again.

i said in another post that he has some past life shit goin on which usually would give him a connection to the witch that manifests early in life, but with all the stuff hes gone through he has been Preoccupied. he can become oblivious to almost anything that doesnt apply to whatever hes focused on. not in a hyperfocus way its likeeeeee. when u live on survival mode during prolonged periods of stress. hes immune to magic bullshit bc hes too tired and scared.

anyways around his mid-20s he finally has a little more stability (as much as the average person living in the zones can have, that is) and he finally notices that Weird Stuff happens around him. basically: out of my list of Powers People Connected To The Witch Have he has the prophetic dreams/enhanced intuition as well as a form of sensing ghosts where he can see auras and kind of like, echoes of past events in ppls lives. that look like auras. itz complicated and not of utmost importance so im leaving it at that.

anyways thats what makes him start writing poetry. just 4 funsies he'll describe his weird experiences and embellish them to make em pretty. just as a casual hobby n all that.

he would forget fun ghoul in between the times they ran into each other but its pretty easy to be reminded of who fun ghoul is. the most insane 10 year old cherri has ever met. cherri isnt a brother figure to ghoul. hes just. his friend that happens to be more than twice his age. its whatever lmao

to cherri, ghoul is kinda like a stray animal he keeps seeing. which is hilarious. ghoul actually goes and finds him to introduce him to jet when they start running together, and cherri meets party and kobra (spark and birdie at the time) when he drives the four of them to a party. because he has a truck hell yeah. so now instead of one stray animal he has, like, a feral cat colony that he drives around occasionally. i have no real-life human relationship equivalent to them because irl if some guy that is not related to any of you and isnt even a childhood or family friend and theyre hanging out with you? they are usually not a safe person lmao. but this is my fantasy land and im too stubborn to change anyones birth years even though ghoul being born in 2004 makes everything really hard to make not creepy.

so yeah hes a casual somewhat friend of the fab four. hed probably get more and more concerned as they got famous. the beginnings of any sort of protective feelings, awww :) that sets him up for becoming the girls mentor.

OH FUCK. THE GIRL..... i think if i was in my late 20s and i heard that the gang of 13-17 year olds had adopted a 5 year old kid i would go bananas. what the fuck. it is a LONG while before cherri meets her. but he has the strongest affection for ghoul (if you could even call it that) and ghoul absolutely adores the girl and swings her around under her arms like a cat to show her off to cherri and its very endearing and the girl is sweet and funny so its easy to be around her. and (unfortunately) she is somewhat used to interacting with weird easily agitated people so she kinda gives him space. cherri isnt quite the uncle figure the fandom usually makes him (i luv uncle cherri sm but he simply cannot exist in the universe ive created, f), but hes a little similar.

and then the four had to go and pretend to die. lol.

when the girl was kidnapped, fucking everyone who knew her was ready to storm the city then and there. like regardless of how little you knew her, if you had ever met her you would fucking die for her. she is pure childish charisma and shes precious. i love the girl. so cherris immediately on board with whatever plan the four make to get her back. ive already talked abt how it fucked up the girl tho; there was no way to tell her that the four werent actually dead, she sees the building collapse and she shuts down. and cherri has to fight against his instinct to leave the radio station and never come back when he sees an eight year old girl sitting dissociated on the couch. that fucks everyone up.

i just realized i havent talked about literally anyone else at the radio station. i think cherri started lingering around the station bc it was safe and sheltered while also not being a popular spot. there are less kids there (people pass through but its not a hangout spot). he was kind of just hanging around to get away from the heat and noise and dr d took notice. because that man can see ur soul and no one knows if thats literal or not. so theyd chat a few times a day and show pony was the one 2 get him out of his shell a little and also was the first one he mentioned his poetry hobby to. im making this all up right now as im writing bc i dont know anything about LITERALLY any of the ppl associated w the radio like im not even going 2 try with chimp n newsie i do not have the willpower to tackle all that. justttt. cherri pony n D become bros and live 2gether there.

back 2 the regular timeline. the rescue mission happens in 2019. the girl lives at the station until 2023. during that time she is very much depressed and withdrawn and is only happy when the four come to visit. none of the Adults know how to help her so they just keep her safe and cared for and hope she'll open up to them.

she does not. she takes the weird cat thats been hanging around and she runs away.

cherri does not see her for three years. shes still worse for wear in the mental health department and he can see all kinds of visions of what shes been through since the last time he saw her and he fucking hates the ultra vs bc they remind him of his past. he does not want her going down that path but its obvious that she isnt crazy abt the ultraviolence thing either so thats a relief.

they have a kind of tense relationship throughout the comics. he feels like he failed her and that spirals into feeling like he failed the four for not being a good adult to them and fun ghoul for not helping enough when his commune was bombed and all kinds of shit and that irrational thinking mixed with plain old, yknow, caring about the girl, is what makes him take a bullet (laser. whatever) for her.

i was trying to figure out the timing of each of their ghost experiences, but i want both of them to talk to the witch and im just gonna make it like dreams where a whole buncha stuff happens but irl its been like seconds. so its like barely a second while the girl has her Witch Convo and cherri FINALLY gets a straight answer, yes there is weird shit going on with him having powers. he doesnt have any story-significant past lives because im lazy, hes just an old soul. like really fuckin old. the amount of latent life experience and stuff his soul/energy/whatever has picked up along the way makes him VERY noticeable to gods n stuff. he fuckin lights up all the alarms like what the FUCK is that over there. she wasnt rly able to get to him or even properly notice him while he was a kid and a young adult so shes happy to finally see him again. he has a STRONG sense of familiarity with her. they know each other on a wild ass level that he cant really comprehend.

welp thats some more lore I'll have 2 think abt. anywayz

post canon is when he and val get to have the most awkward spiderman meme moment of realizing that they have the same trauma SOOOOO thatz fun lol /s sorry kings i thought it would be fun to give u something fucked up to bond over <3

not much changes in his personality. he has a better understanding of Weird Magic and delights in freaking out the ultra vs but for the most part he returns to his life at the radio station. i love him

THIS GOT SO CRAZY LONG I DID NOT MEAN 2 GO THROUGH EVERY PART OF HIS LIFE LIKE SOME WEIRD CHARACTER STUDY but here we are. this is basically a first draft like almost all of this is subject to change but u gotta start somewhere. so heres my start i love this guy. its probably obvious but i have not read ANY twitterverse killjoys stuff </3 maybe i will someday idk

[bluemedallion]

So I started the hogwarts au like i dunno, 3 weeks ago? And i wasnt like, sure into dsmp lore by then. I like threw myself into the mcyt fandom shdhs.

I think I was like, kinda in it, finally understanding how to keep up with the lore, but only really paid attention to the ccs I already knew about (the dteam, wilbur and tommy, some others).

So when I made the hogwarts au I like, it was still good. But because I'm me i did it the way i wanted, and decided to center the au mostly around the charas i knew. Idk if i mentioned it anywhere but i made a list of like, the charas i cared about most to least.

The ones near the top were the ones I knew the most about, so I decided to put a list of like 10ish of the ccs i knew the most about and only went into the complicated lore (what their wands were, what their pets were, their patronuses, etc) for those ccs

But heres the problem

Now more stuff has been added to the dsmp, and I'm finally caught up with lore so I'm like, actively here now. I joined around like, ok so I first heard of and was looking at the smp when the s1 finale happened. Then I spent maybe like 2 weeks figuring shit out? I think i started actively watching Tommy's streams (he was the only one i watched at first besides george, now i still mostly do tommy and techno but i also love watching Karl's streams, ranboos, but the rest of the lore is a lil hard for me to keep up with lol @starwither on tumblr is my savior) like, maybe a week before i made the hog au. Ok I'll be honest i dont remember the exact timeline, but luckily for you it's not relevant at all

So the problem is, over the past 3 weeks I got into the lore officially sticking with the streams, exploring different characters, and actually looking at the rest of the streamers instead of the main ones I lister previously

So now, like, for example I did not know who fundy was at all. I had heard of quackity and realized he was super relevant to the schlatt arc cause I think I was catching up to that at the time so he was on the lsit, but I didnt know shit about fundy besides that he was Wilbur's son in canon so I was like "ok I'll make him younger than will but idk him so I wont put him in the list"

But now I've watched more shit and like--- I'm love him🥺🥺🥺

But I already went and added all the random facts and itll be so much work to add fundy and ranboo and the ppl I know better now that i think will be more involved in the stories cause ik them better

But ugh so much workkkkk😔😔😔😔😔

But honestly I'm probably gonna do it

At least for fundy and ranboo (and possibly quig and pete they're not dsmp but they're crazy relevant cause I mean look at their mccs)

I'm p sure there are others but those are the main 2 I can think of that I didnt know shit about before

Ugh the problem is also that I just dont know nobody

Like captain puffy I decided to make a prefect literally last second so thered be 2 relevant chara 5th year prefects, but like, that was a guess I havent seen a single stream of hers. I'm thinking I'm gonna go through mcc vods of diff teams to try and knock off 2 stones at once (learning charas AND deciding their strengths and weaknesses in the hcc and quidditch n stuff)

Last night I went and finally did quidditch shit (I dont know how quidditch works I had to do research shdhshd idk shit) and I didnt have enough charas

I based it on rocket spleef (yall dont even know this yet my tumblr followers yall get sneak peek) and so I had like, maybe 10 charas I wanted for sure on teams. Then I had like 4ish that didnt do mcc but i thought i wanted them on a team (example: minx)

And that sounds like a lot yeah

Then I realized that it equals out to like 3 members per house and theres supposed to be 7----

So I kinda bsed the rest of the team

I went to the list of caring most to least, looked at the least section cause that's streamers that I dont know ANYTHING ABOUT but they're still current mcytbers/streamers so yeah

And I basically just threw all the ones who were in mcc into it 🤡🤡🤡

And I also bsed their houses so bad cause I DONT KNOW THEM HSHDSHS so it's probably fucking awful but I once again do not care

I still only ended up with 5 ppl per team but it's fine I mostly just didnt add some chasers theyll just be Generic BG Character That's Probably A Fandom Character That I'll Yearn For Someone To Comment About

I cant wait to post the quidditch chapter smile

Anyways rant over lmaoooo

Uhhh if you read to the end you get a prize

(Heres your prize!!!!: the temporary title of tHE NEXT IDEA FOR THE SERIES 👀👀👀👀 IM WORKING ON IT RIGHT NOWWWWWWWW)

"Brothers Bond by Making Drugs"

[gammija]

The Hollow review/summary/rant/explanation of why i hate the ending I wasn’t sure whether I should post this, but I did enjoy reading others experiences watching this show, so here’s mine under the cut. Edited from a convo with a friend.

(Obviously, spoilers!)

Me: Okay so to properly express my disappointment i gotta take you through the major beats

The show starts with three teens waking up in an almost empty room, finding out they all have amnesia. They quickly solve a puzzle to escape the room, and just as quickly Adam and Mira realize they have superpowers (superstrength/agility and some weird 'speak to animals/know all languages' hybrid, respectively. also she can breathe underwater and swim really fast. its kind of vague)

Kai is already clearly a comic relief, discount Ron (from HP, the movies, no idea about the books) so me and sister correctly predict he'll get jealous of adam and miras relationship (even if there is none), gets pissy and jealous that he has no powers, but then finds out he has powers anyway he does, hes a fire bender. cant say im not bitter about that cause id put my money on invulnerability but eh its alright he has red hair after all hes still fun

Friend: Of course he is

I just feel bad is all aldjs

Me: adam gets a throwaway line of 'maybe were dead' and kai never lets it go

this food might be poisoned but im starving and hey were dead anyway! right, adam

Friend: I love him??

Me: i loved him as soon as he spoke his first dumb words also he puns but basically hes the only interesting char; adam and mira are just cookie cutter 'male lead 1' and 'female lead 1' i mean, he’s cookie cutter ‘jealous 3rd wheel’ but that has more going on than the first two still servicable though

anyway so the jokes are sometimes fun, and superpowers are always my jam. but the REAL reason to keep watching is just, whats going on? ARE they dead? or in some kind of weird gvnmt experiment? some weird magical vampire guide (dont ask) hints they wanted this themselves ooh, intrigue. and the world is very very quirky they start in a gravity falls-y woods and then get teleported to a desert with minotaurs and witches, then get invited for tea by the Grim Reaper and the rest of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse

tbh Grim is the best part of the show but thats neither here nor there

anyway they have a magic map that updates once theyve been somewhere, and it shows them that the hot dry desert and the swampy wood bunker are like right next to each other

so you start thinking, how are they gonna explain that? this is too weird to be handwaved away. theyve gotta be going somewhere

they visit some other exotic locals, like what appears to be the set of Alien (complete with alien) and an abandoned old fair and a floating island with japanese inspired evildoers on it

the weird magic guide keeps showing up and being vague, dropping hints that there are other kids there etc

at some point Mira says "This is no time for games!" Weirdy: "Thats where youd be wrong~" me and sister: Aha! videogame! that connects all the dots, and also makes the tropes clear: small world with all kinds of different areas, quests, fights, superpowers, an updating map, fast travel Adam, a few eps later: guis i think we might be in a videogame me and sister: [high five]

Anyway in the meantime also the second predictable Kai (discount Ron) plot happens: they meet three other kids (boy boy girl) and they act shady but the girl takes an immediate and obvious interest in Kai so obviously theyre gonna manipulate him and have him betray his friends but in the end he'll see through their facade and kick their ass that more or less happens. The other teens also confirm that this is a game, and theyre trying to win. winning is done by bringing the MacGuffin to a tree fights over macguffin ensue situations are dire but our characters persevere

(also Mira kisses Adam and he acts very weird about it, almost as if hes gay and the only reason they didnt make it canon is censors) (no lingering gaze, just him going 'hehe yeah no thanks, its not you, its me', but in a very... he doesnt seem to be saying it with shall we say burning desire in his soul. hes literally just like 'eh youre a good friend.' Cool move, cartoon that made the two main boys have arguments over nothing cause of course the two main guys have constant dick measuring matches)

this all is not the offensive part btw it was all fun and games, its just a flash cartoon i wasnt expecting Shakespeare

anyway so theyre in a videogame, and apparently thats the answer to all the weirdness. A bit of a cop-out, cause thats a very easy answer, but eh, it works. it wasnt immediately obvious.

also something i hadnt mentioned yet: thisd be ideal for making (self-insert) OCs. Unique powers for each person, there are clearly more characters than shown, the world is your playground

and maybe the video game thing could be interesting on its own in the last few eps the game seems to be glitching out a lot they say its breaking apart so they really gotta hurry now maybe they were beta testers for a vr game gone wrong maybe this is part of it but its like a huge experience that you tell all your friends about anyway there are ways it could be cool, could be expanded to a season 2 despite having solved the mystery

but. last episode. our heroes get the MacGuffin, go to a final stage, and fight the Boss Battle (its a dragon). they enter the Castle....

...and the screen zooms out, into a sudden live action stage, where we see the cartoon (literally what you were just watching) on screen. there are 6 chairs, 3 with our heroes, 3 with the other teens, presumably. theres a host and hes dressed exactly like the weird guy (and that was already kind of a clashy outfit in the cartoon). it was all just a game show. but. the worst part is the live action

you. dont. go. from. animated. to. live. action.

other way around? fine, can work. But now? WHY itd still be dumb and dissapointing but if itd been animated too itd at least have been.... nice to look at but the acting.. oh god they didnt even say anything and it was all wrong clearly theyd just picked the first random teens that vaguely looked like the chars and put them in there cause they had no lines so who needs acting?!

the enemy teams girl had, in the cartoon, pink hair. Purple with pink highlights instead of stylizing that into something more realistic or painting the actual hair, they gave some 30-year old woman a wig and called it a day

keep in mind i binged this show in one go

purposely stayed up late to watch the last ep with my sis even tho we shouldve gone to bed and were disobeying our dad cause we Had to Know

and theres more i said they had no lines but i was lying. Kai did have a line. well, his voice actor did they dubbed him also the line was about him having to pee which is already not the most hilarious in animated version but a live action kid whose supposed to be this character you spent 3 hours with but looks nothing like him saying that in a voice that doesnt belong to his throat, as he stands bashfully in front of a live audience, the only words spoken by your main characters in the last moments...

*its actual hell*

oh oh one more thing at the end the six kids stand in a line and kai is next to other girl they glance at each other and as the eyes of this teen and 30 year old in wig cross, her eye glitches for a moment

dun dun duuun

bUT i dont care anymore, The Hollow. You overestimated your own premise. this wont be forgiven. your most interesting part was the mystery, and the answer  to that was "just a normal game show" (which also doesnt make sense on another level smh) soo if you think that im interested in what these two-dimensional (ha) characters will do now about the glitch in the eye of a bitch then i have news for u

i dont

...if they get a second season ill probably check it out though as long as its animated

Friend: Gammi I'm getting the real sinking suspicious feeling that what you saw isn't the real end but bad on purpose because there's more to it

Me: the show didnt seem good enough to be bad on purpose

and yet im still not done, if youll still hear me out

i mean, im an animation fan so ill still watch but if theyd wanted to be bad on purpose they really shouldve done a better job fleshing out the characters thats what people come back for that was a bit of a sidetrack BUT so i said why the live action itself was just terrible in overal quality

but the resolution that 'oh it was all in a game show' doesnt work on multiple levels

first of all, they show a short flashback of "About 5 hours earlier". The kids stand on the stage and are instructed to take their seats in the vr-chairs, and pick their superpower

2 things i dislike about that

1) there goes all the self-insert/oc potential. they werent teens in over their heads, they werent gvnmt experiments, or just some kids who wanted to play a game -they were in it to win it, from the start. thats very specific and not the most appealing to all kinds of characters (goodbye, all the 'im just an average girl whod never step into the spotlight like that' characters).

Also, all the expansion on lore is gone. maybe there were other games simultaneously? eh, maybe, but theyd be all gameshows. Maybe someone ended uo trapped there for way longer? nah its just a gameshow theyre not gonna let anything actually bad happen. Maybe there are other worlds, other areas, other weird creatures? unlikely, they finished the map and familiarity seemed to be a thing for the audience. Now every new idea has to be put not through a 'whats interesting for a player' but a 'whats interesting for a viewer' lens, and whats a selfinsert if not a player in another universe

2) HOW IS THIS A SUCCESSFUL GAME SHOW

who the hell watches a game show for 5 consecutive hours, some of which mustve been just them walking. also, we zoom out of the screen were watching, so implication is that everything up until then has been what the audience has seen. but... we only followed the one team. there were two? why didnt the audience want to see what they were up to? ~reality tv usually thrives on showinf the worst assholes so realistically they wouldve been the focus~

There are also way too many times *both* teams couldve failed, from early on till late in the game. Not a single game i can think of thats played for an audience is set up like that, and especially not a televised one (okay tbf idk if this was televised, i dont remember if i saw cameras, but. it mustve. monetary reasons.)

What r u gonna do if they all 'died' from the monsters in the first ep? Call it a day? boring for the audience. let them restart from scratch? boring for the audience. the existence of an audience messes with everything

AND THEN ANOTHER THING what do you mean, "5 hours ago?" you never get a time stamp to show how long theyve been in there but there are some cuts, when they travel and such. The actual show is a lil over 3 hours runtime. You mean to tell me you sat through 2 hours of the characters just walking?

okay last thing. so. they were clearly second season teasing with the glitching eye thing. i already said this but. theres nowhere to go from here that isnt worse that the first season. your mystery is dead. you clearly know your live action teens cant act so youd have to go back into the game - but why would they do that? how would that be in any way interesting? you explored all there was to explore.

The other, more out there option, is that as you said the 'real world' was a fake-out and theyre still in a game. but. how would- how would you even make that remotely convincing? if youd just left the 'real world' gameshow as animated too this wouldnt have been a problem. but there is absolutely no conceivable reason to justify, in universe, why another meta-level up is 2D animation again unless they were in a game, in a game, in a game. and thats just dumb. yall aint inception

Friend: HONESTLY if they just kept the whole deal animated it'd probably be okay. Not good, but better,

Me: ye me and my sister came to the same conclusion

i couldve lived with that. at least, i couldve just acknowledged the finales existence but chose to ignore it. now however im full phantom planet levels of denial. in fact i dont even know how the show ended anymore, suddenly

Friend: what finale? what show?

Me: also at least now we know why its called The Hollow

it leaves you feeling empty inside

[fuckblizzardbearlover]

had a bit of a rant so i thought i’d save it here

“Like i dont know if you jsut see things in black and white simple terms or if you didnt watch it. This was the equivalent of the Empire strikes back, you know the movie where Everyone lost and everything was horrible. The heroes were suppose to lose, or rather they werent suppose to win. Roses story was masterful and I pity you that you didnt see it because the rest of the world understood and its sad to think that the planet will move on while you are still mad about an old archaic b.s. notion of self sacrifice.

IF YOU PAYED ATTENTION you'd understand that before she passed out Rose said "we wont win this war by destroying what we hate, we will win it by protecting what we love". Finn reached a crucial moment where he decided to face his abusers and make them pay for the sins they have committed against the galaxy. However he was going to far.

The fact is we dont know what would have happened if Rose wasnt a hero and saved his life, For some weird reason fans act like it was a gurantee to work, but within the story it could have fired  before he even got to it.  Poe had JUST learned his lesson about how they are fighting a WAR and sacrificing  the lives of your allies in order to Scratch the enemy is a waste of their lives. Que Finn thinking that to stop the First Order he has to be willing to sacrifice himself in order to make them pay. Thats reckless and vengence, both bad things.

Its just so freaking weird you'd make up this b.s. idea that you thought the message is you SHouldnt stand up and fight because thats what the entire movie was about?!?! Rose's whole thing was about her sister dying to take out that destroyer, did you miss that part?

But you cant just go all martyr in a war. YOu cant just die. you have to fight, you have to protect. Finn is alive and he can continue to fight the first order and protect people, and its all thanks to Rose. YES you are suppose to fight and those brave enough need to be willing to lay down their lives but that doesnt mean sacrifice. There is a huge difference between going into the war knowing you may die, and going in So you can Die

.Its freaky that you got SO CLOSE to the POINT yet still missed it. The Hubris you have to think Rian Johnson was giving a big Fuck you to the audience. You really think this person spent millions of dollars and 3 years of his life just to say "fuck star wars fans"? Well believe it or not but he's obviously alot more mature than you are.

You ARE close to the point because the movie WAS subverting expectations. That was like.....God that was the Entire point of the movie.

Kylo has a hard past and we are meant to feel sypathetic as the 'corrupt ' jedi lies, but instead of it turning into a "oh this mass murderer is on our side now" crummy redemption story Rey realized it was wrong. That yes while he had an unfortunate situation that he WANTED to be evil, he wanted to be a tyrant and he had no intention of ever changing and only saw her as a pawn and when she resisted him he hurled abuses at her. Rey's story subverted the idea of "Mass shooter was a real "friendly ' person says friends and family, shocked by events" And our willingness to ignore evil abuses in people we trust because for a moment they support us.

Finn was born and raised to think his life had no value, He was a slave and when it didnt suit the empire he would be killed. But (because he is strong in the force) unlike his other brainwashed buddies he couldnt help but feel the empathy from other life and so he resisted and was cast out. Being a survivor of abuse and worse he Rightfully wants to get away. But in the first movie he's willing to protect someone he knows deserves his trust. He has every right to want to get away and he still tries, but the Rebels are in trouble and the only person he cares about is getting into the worse of it, so he tries to use the information his abusers gave him to hurt them back. And when it comes to ahead he's willing to make the ultimate sacrifice to save others.....Because he was taught all his life that his life was worthless. Yes his sacrifice was heroic, but it wasnt as much of his choice as it should have been. He has no family and the only friends he has are in that base and would be saved by it. And this wonderful man, just trying to save his friends, do some good, and not die trying, reaffirmed in Rose, a tried and true Rebel, the Heart and Power of those who are good people.  He was willing to die because he didnt value his life but he didnt realize that Others did! We are people we are rebels, not canon fodder. Yes we are WILLING to die if it comes to it but we dont go looking for death.

Poe was an expert pilot, maybe best in the galaxy. but he is a warrior not a leader. he didnt realize not everyone is as skilled as him, or rather He did and he didnt mind that other rebels died because of it. He knew they were willing to make that sacrifice because he would himself and so he took advantage. During the movie we are made to believe he is in the right. He's the established hero, the witty run and gun type. and he wants vengence for Leia but the "new one" is there, and she wont give classified information to an unimportant soldier who has no clearance. The director did a fantastic job of making us hate her despite her being in the right . He commits mutiny and puts them all at risk. Thats his lesson. that we are in this together, we cant dash off and leave our friends to fend for themselves, we have to listen to each other. in an alternate universe someone like Finn was sent to his death cus of the brash actions of Poe...oh wait someone was, Rose's sister.

I'm bored now but the list goes on.Luke's entire story was about that subversion. that the Jedi order isnt magic, that adhereing to it like a tradionalist is what hurt them. The jedi died in the clone wars and they should have stayed dead. And thats whats happening. between Ezra, Ashoka, and Rey and Finn they are setting up the creation of a new order of Balance that understands the dark side so they can resist it, and follows the light but isnt blinded by it.

Did he subvert expectations? yes he did, Did he do it to say Fuck you to fans? heck no. 10s of millions if not more people LOVED This movie. The only people i've ever heard that dislike it are tryhard gatekeeping  nerd bros. Who got their asses kicked by Rian Johnson several times who knew the lore about jedi and the force alot better than them.

In short

You dont have to like it

but the fact that you dont like it doesnt mean it wasnt masterful, a great sequel and the kind of story this world needs.

We dont need bullshit stories about redeemed nazis, and men who hate themselves so much they go off to die to protect others.

The world needs more scared men who try anyways, more girls who stand up for whats right even if it means crashing your vehicle or punching out a defector or resists the darkness when it shows its true face. the world needs Great intelligent heroic men who can learn from their mistakes and realize that just because they are confident doesnt mean they are flawless.

The world needs more little girls inspired by Rey and Rose Tico and less edgelord asshole 'fans" who shit on happyness and harrass actors cus they got mad at a movie“