#jonathan and steve are both valid characters

[dunroamins]

It really fucking sucks as someone who likes both Steve AND Jonathan, but sometimes the fandom lowkey makes me hate Steve - whether it's by demonizing Jonathan/attributing his best tributes solely to Steve, or by wildly mischaracterizing him.

Yes!

Steve has his own, entirely valid, good qualities, many of which he actually shares with Jonathan: being brave, protective and loyal.

He's also practically intelligent and observant (realising the recording was coming from inside the mall), and he's done what a lot of young lads do. He was a bit of an arsehole in high school, and now he's grown up and grown out of that behaviour.

What that means is that he's a fairly ordinary kid. That's the whole point-he's the normal small-town boy who ends up doing battle with interdimensional monsters.

Jonathan, by contrast, gets so much hate because he's not ordinary. He is primed for the Upside Down. He's not ready for what happens to Will...but he's been expecting things to go wrong his whole life because they always have. When the GA calls him weird, or ugly, or boring, what they really mean is 'I can't relate to what he's been through so I don't have any sympathy for him'.

He's intelligent, sharp, witty, spiky, strong and compassionate. He has a moral centre because his father never did. He's a dad before he's a high-school grad; a mother's helper before he gets to be a child. This is the young man who organised his little brother's funeral, and still made sure his mother ate. This is the young man who had his spine cracked wide with a surgical stool, and tried to save his girlfriend through the pain.

This is a man who (probably without fully realising) limits his own choices because he's determined to expand his little brother's.

The constant erasure of Jonathan's complexities-his constant relegation to the background by large swathes of the fandom-hurts, because that's exactly what happens to kids like him. To kids like me.

Jonathan is different by design. The whole Byers family (sans Lonnie) is different by design. They are the ones best equipped to deal with all of this because they know the darkness that lies beneath normal life. It's not a shock or a surprise to them. The whole concept of the show is about a family that's been beaten down by people who don't care to understand, responding to the Upside Down in a way only they can.

Jonathan doesn't get to have the redemption arc Steve does, because (aside from the photo debacle) he doesn't need one. He doesn't need to grow up, because he's already had to. His outlook on life is more mature, more cynical, more responsible, because it's had to be. From the first episode, Joyce is already in the habit of focusing on Will because Jonathan 'can take care of himself', so his needs don't show on her radar. Not only does that mean she doesn't see them: it also means that Jonathan doesn't have a good handle on his own needs either.

When you learn to make yourself small to keep everyone else afloat, you lose the ability to tell when you're sinking.

And a big chunk of the GA seems to see this and go 'Oh, he's sinking, what a loser!' because it's become normal for him to sink. They see his character as the oddball tragic foil to Steve's everyman charm, when they were supposed to see it the other way around. Jonathan was supposed to be one of the central characters for once, and to take that away from him because he is the way he is...misses the point entirely. You're supposed to sympathise with Jonathan. You're supposed to watch the show and think deeply about the harm we do when we exclude people. You're supposed to learn from him.

Yes, Jonathan does struggle to be sociable, and charismatic, and open! He does struggle to express himself! That's the whole point: he is a child who's been through more in 16 years (as of S1) than most people in small-town America have in a lifetime. He is the way he is because he trudges through Hell and keeps going.

Because he'll be damned if anyone he loves ends up there with him.

[the-strangest-heart]

my favorite thing about stranger things is that it presents itself as a teen sci-fi show about monsters with standard hollywood horror effects for cheap entertainment, but it’s so much more. it’s about being different. it’s about the societal structures that cause people to choose romantic partners and friends for social validation. it’s about what real love is, both platonic and romantic, and finding the people who care about you regardless of what other people say or think. it’s about finding yourself, standing up for yourself. it’s about rejecting the easy love that everyone expects you to have for something greater. it’s about learning the difference between loving and being in love.

this is shown in a traditionally teen-flick way (love triangles) with characters as they’re growing out of adolescence into adulthood: in s1-2, it’s shown through nancy, steve, and jonathan, with nancy ultimately choosing to love the boy who was her friend first, and in s3-4 she chooses to be friends with the boy she loved first. inversely, it’s shown (albeit at a much slower rate) with mike, el, and will, with mike choosing in s1-3 to love the girl everyone expects him to. in s4, this expectation is shaken as he tries to figure out the difference between platonic and romantic love, that steve realized with robin and nancy in s3-4. the natural, cinematic progression of this will be concluded in s5, when he chooses to be friends with the girl he loved first and to love the boy who was his friend first.

it’s about the wheelers, who grew up in rigorous social norms and learn to defy them. it’s about the byers, who grew up learning love isn’t as simple as it seems and learn to accept that. it’s about steve, who thought his social standing lived and died with having a popular and pretty girlfriend he could marry out of high-school, and realizing he found his true love in a girl who showed him the purest love he’s ever known by defying social standings altogether and that true love can be platonic. and it’s about el, who didn’t really even know what love is, and she found it in a broken man who showed her simple kindness and unconditional love, which she didn’t think she was capable of receiving, and she projected that loss onto what she perceived was love with a boy who couldn’t even write it.

stranger things is about learning who you are, not who you’re expected to be. it’s about loving who you choose, not who’s chosen for you. it’s about all the different ways love is shown and accepted, and the struggles of those who think they have to find it conventionally. it breaks the mold of what it was initially intended to be by a big-buck studio dynasty driven by social norms, and if that’s not poetic cinema, then, well, i just don’t know what is.

[carrionofamurderprey]

In Defense of Nancy Wheeler,

a short collection of thoughts concocted by someone who is very used to defending a character that is shitted on and misunderstood by half the fandom and victimized by poor writing choices.

1.) In Defense of her being a bad friend

"she abandoned barb and that's why she died"

principally... a shitty thing to do, but i'd ARGUE it was a lapse of judgement that literally triggers her entire character arc. HEAR ME..

and a weaker, but still valid argument that does not excuse her decision, but is fair nonetheless.. how was she supposed to know barb was going to get swallowed up by an inter dimensional monster in the pool???… just saying. JUST SAYING.

Like I mentioned, it triggered a huge character arc for Nancy. Nancy felt awful that Barb went missing, and she recognized her faults. This guilt and confusion toward the tragedy led her to other realizations, like the state of her relationship, who Steve is as a person, and her own identity. My girl had a lot on her plate and she paid her debts in FULL solving Hawkins mysteries to not only compensate for what happened to Barb, but protect her friends and family!!!!!!

Don’t even get me started on how she felt not being able to tell Barb’s parents once she found out what really happened. Must’ve been awful.

2.) In defense of her shitty love triangle (my biggest point arguably)

everyone who hates her because of the love triangle she's subjected to are (and i’m sorry to say it but not really,) stupid. her character is obviously trying to break out of being central to a love triangle, but the writers can not for the life of them figure out what to do with steve and jonathan past s3 developmentally, which keeps her stuck in that place.

Nancy is so badass and has so much potential.

Someone also pointed out the underlying misogynistic issue of keeping women’s development “at bay,”— whether it be intentional or not!!— by having their entire importance dependent on male characters. That’s a post for another day, though.

and i'd like to point out she's not in a place like el, who is also in a canon love triangle, but also completely able to realize and explore her independence after catalysts (being friends with max, breaking up with mike).

THIS IS BECAUSE SHE HASNT HAD THE CHANCE TO BE AUTHENTICALLY ALONE AND REALIZE THE IMPACT OF HER OWN CATALYSTS (barb incident, solving hawkins mysteries)!

nancy’s character— to me and many others feels like she is given the illusion of choice by the writers. nancy in her love triangle is more like mike in his. she is not given the same opportunity to branch out, and is instead stuck choosing between two people, like mike. el's only choice is mike or herself. despite both being female characters that discover their independence, nancy isn't far enough on the receiving end to have her own arc.

Now logically, Nancy could branch out and be alone, and so could Mike. However, just like Mike is set up to be in love with Will, Nancy is set up to be in love with her male interests. Whereas this is sets a tone of freedom and accomplishment for Mike’s character, this.. to me, sets a tone of imprisonment and stillness for Nancy’s.

Final: There is still hope for Nance in s5

i would really like to see more parallels between these two friendships in season 5. like el and max, robin and nancy didn't start off being best friends!!

nancy was standoffish toward robin like el was with max, and they both reacted that way because of a boy, but then slowly realized they valued their female friendship more than romance.

this friendship helped el escape vecna and the idea that she needs approval from the males in her life.

i think it would be cool if they didsomething like that with robin and nancy instead of keeping her at such a stand still with steve and jonathan in the final season.

FIN🤌🏾

[autistic-robin]

more dynamics i need to see in st5 for my mental wellbeing

1. el and dustin. that’s it send post. they were genuinely so sweet in season 1 and i miss their mad scientist/test subject vibe immensely. i know el and lucas are going to be paired up this season because of their shared connection (polyamory) to max, but i would love to see more scenes between dustin and el— maybe some lighthearted bonding over their matching leg injuries or daddy issues.

2. mike and robin. i don’t think you understand i need this like i need air. will has already had his gay awakening he doesn’t need a queer life coach!! mike on the other hand is out here in the TRENCHES. this man is down critically horrendously morifyingly BAD for will but is convinced el needs him and that will could never reciprocate his feelings. he needs robin’s gay intuition and advice if anyone does.

3. steve and jonathan. HELLO??? FOR THE LOVE OF GOD HELLO???? i know this is pretty much guaranteed to happen in st5 because full-circle character development and hammering in themes and blah blah blah but i’m still gonna talk about it because listen. steve got his shit rocked by jonathan one (1) time and immediately decided “fuck my idiot friends” developed a moral conscience and SHOWED UP AT HIS HOUSE to apologize. he wasn’t there for nancy he had no idea nancy was there!!! he bought jonathan a new camera!!! he was so respectful of nancy and jon even when nancy dumped his ass a season later!!! yet we never get closure between him and jonathan or even a conversation and i’m PISSED about it. matt and ross duffer rectify this or else.

4. hopper and jonathan and will. you see the vision. these kids have never had a stable father figure who truly understands them (i love bob but he was only there for st2 and was sweet but naive) and everything they’ve been through. jonathan DESPERATELY needs to be de-parentified and released from the emotional burden of constantly putting will and joyce before his own needs and dreams, and hopper desperately needs to feel like he can protect his family instead of “cursing” them. will needs a loving father figure who supports his queer identity, and hopper only had a fire lit under him in s1 when joyce mentioned it could have been a hate crime. this is like textbook recipe for healing and closure for these characters.

5. joyce and karen? i just think it would be neat. we know karen’s getting more involved this season and i think she should get to be a little gay for joyce as a treat. we had crumbs of their dynamic in s1 and on a more sincere note i honestly think joyce could help give karen the courage to leave ted or demand better from him moving forward.

6. nancy and mike. if they don’t have a genuine conversation i’ll actually be fuming raging pulling my hair out. i get it i get that they’re both emotionally repressed but GOD i wish we had more moments with them talking about their trauma or empathizing with each other’s survivor’s guilt and crippling savior complexes. all the “max and mike are the same character in a different font” business is very valid and i agree madwheeler is like ten shots of espresso injected directly into the bloodstream HOWEVER, nancy and mike’s traumas and emotional issues are so so similar please let them talk about it!!!!

7. steve and robin???? please for the love of god????? literally what the fuck was happening in s4 they were NOT given enough screentime together. not cool. i want them BACK on their queerplatonic bullshit in s5, fully codependent disgustingly clingy like god intended.

8. jonathan and el. i just want them to be siblings together!!! we got a lot of willel sibling vibes in s4 and some sweet jon-and-will moments, but i would love for them to delve into jonathan and el’s dynamic. this girl is a big reason why will was saved in s1 and we just… never really see the byerses address that? jonathan has a lottt of self-blaming tendencies when it comes to will and i’d love for el to help remind him he isn’t responsible for protecting and saving his brother all the time. conversely, i’d love for jonathan to remind el that she’s just a kid and that the weight of the world shouldn’t be on her shoulders. they’re both really soft-spoken and sweet characters with hard veneers and i feel like they’d pair well together for more emotional scenes.

9. literally the entire byers-hopper family they are the heart and soul of the show and i will never forgive the duffer brothers for losing that in s3-4 in favor of expanding the scope of the story. i miss them.

10. steve and el. i would maim and kill for this dynamic actually. both of them are involved in love triangles and have arcs centered around independency and platonic/found familial love, and steve has his whole mom-of-the-group shtick that could be really endearing paired with el’s plucky weird-little-girl vibe. idk i just think they would be a cute team, maybe paired with dustin or lucas.

11. stoncy and robin. literally give me this team or give me death. i miss stoncy’s iconic end-of-season-1 monster-hunting trio dynamic SO MUCH i would give anything for them to go on a sidequest and really just hash it all out with each other. and robin could offer steve moral support and comic relief— while we’re on the subject i would also kill to see her and jonathan interact!! like they are so similar in that brooding-noncomformist way and i feel like they would either immediately gravitate toward each other based on values OR immediately clash due to their personality differences. jonathan is all quiet and avoidant and robin can be… A Lot (said with love) when she’s not masking like s3. i just think they’d be funny together.

12. this is devolving quickly so scott clarke and the party. no i will not elaborate. thank you for your time

[heavencasteel420]

I think more “older teen character has bisexuality crisis” fics should put Vickie in the role of wise bisexual mentor…but she literally just figured out that she’s bisexual and she knows almost nothing, so she’s only in that role by default. So she’s trying to field Steve (who’s skeptical about bisexuality because “everyone would have sex with men and women if that were a real choice”), Nancy (“how can you tell if you’re bisexual, anyway? Doesn’t everyone find both men and women sexy? They just are!”), Jonathan (who actually has read about bisexuality but he’s pretending to be asleep because he’s been postponing his bisexuality crisis since 1980), and Argyle (who’s like “I don’t really process whether people are men or women in a sexual sense,” which is valid but adds extra wrinkles to the already rumpled discussion), and possibly other characters.

[dwobbitfromtheshire]

People have valid reasons for not liking Jonathan, honestly, and it's not to make Steve look good. Steve does all that on his own. (And yes, Steve was a great boyfriend.) They don't like Jonathan because he took a shirtless picture of Nancy without her consent while peaking on a very intimate moment between her and Steve. That's a very good reason not to like the character and a very good reason not to like Jancy. I waffle back and forth between my like and dislike of the character for this reason. Readmore for a better in-depth analysis.

If you want to blame anyone for people's dislike of Jonathan, blame the Duffle bags for not addressing the issue properly. All they really needed was a scene between Nancy and Jonathan, with Jonathan apologizing sincerely, then Jonathan returning the camera to Steve with an apology of his own, saying that he wanted to earn the camera back. There would have been this moment of respect between them with realizing they both did and said things that were fucked up. The difference is that Steve owned up first and apologized. Plus, there would have been this parallel scene of Steve going to Jonathan's house, and then Jonathan going to Steve’s house. It would have added so much to Jonathan's character. Getting mad at people for not liking Jonathan, it's dumb because they have valid and very sensitive reasons for not liking him. Get mad at the Duffle brothers for not addressing the issue properly. They had a chance to do a great scene between the three of them, and they just missed it. I really hope they address it in season 5.

[thestobingirlie]

I just really hate the "Reasons I love this character" *inserts 1001 headcanons that completely contradict who the character is in canon.*

It happens to a lot of the ST characters but especially Steve. They like him because Joe Keery is pretty and they like the protector element. But they hate everything else about Steve, so they have to make so many things up to justify why he isn't actually the person he is in canon. They just want a pretty face to project on.

It's happened a lot to Eddie too, which is how he has become what he is in fanon rather than his canon characterization. Oh, he's sweet and kind and caring and would never hurt a fly and is always judged by everyone and would never judge others for anything. But in the show he is a judgemental asshole at times, and there are valid reasons for people to judge him (the conformity speech, dealing, Chrissy's body being found in the trailer.)

Jonathan is an amazing and caring older brother and an amazing boyfriend and he is outcast by all the mean popular people. But he outcasts himself, he's a creep because of the photos. And he's not great to Nancy, but there is a communication issue on both sides there. And he's not as good a brother to Will as he's sometimes made out to be. The way in s2 he basically tells Will that he's wrong for not wanting to feel like a freak. And the way he treats Joyce in s2 over her choice to date Bob.

But so much of this fandom also seems to think that OOC means doesn't reflect widely accepted fanon, so calls Eddie in his first episode OOC. Despite the fact that that is his canon characterization.

your last paragraph is *chefs kiss*. a lot of people really do see the characters solely as their fanon depictions and are jarred when they watch the show and realise that is not the case. especially with characters like eddie. but even with steve, i’ve seen so many posts about rewatching s1 and realising that steve doesn’t actually do all the heinous shit the fandom makes out he did.

i think it’s really… interesting? weird? the way that fanon has formed around eddie and jonathan to erase their worst traits and moments, but it’s formed around steve to exaggerate his worst moments, and even come up with entirely made up ones.

this isn’t to say that steve doesn’t have negative character traits, of course he does. but not the kind that the fandom likes to think he has.

anyway! yeah, a lot, honestly the majority, of fan made content in this fandom is using steve’s name and joe keery’s face and that’s it!!! and it’s fucking annoying lmao.

and i think the worst part is that they don’t even realise they’re doing it. they’ve been so deluded by fanon that they honestly think they’re sticking to his characterisation.

[starry-eyed-steve]

Some of you are really pissing me off, especially on twitter.

Maya never said Robin shouldn't get a gf, she voiced her concerns that Robin getting a gf would be the center of her character, and she's right to be worried.

Stranger Things branded itself as a show where friendships are the most important thing. However, over the years in the show and fandom, romantic relationships are mostly at the focus.

Jonathan, as soon as he started to date Nancy never saw an independent character arc until s4 where he wasn't with her. His character is simply a sidekick to Nancy. He doesn't grow, and his arc is mostly about Jancy. Like his struggles of being financially not well off or taking care of Will and his mom are swept under the rug. The major conflict in s3 was more about Nancy and how unsupportive Jonathan was as a boyfriend, instead of commenting on his social status and problems.

Steve, as soon as he was around Nancy again, ditched everything else. His relationships, which he created throughout the seasons, were tossed out the window. Even his scenes with Robin were suddenly all about love or Stancy. It's so tiresome because his character thrives the most when he's with Robin and the kids. There is no real balance for his character, which is upsetting. So I get some complaints about Robin being a cheerleader for a straight relationship (which was so ooc s3 Robin would never) instead of focusing on her character outside of romance in s4. The Duffers have simply no idea how to write relationships, platonic or romantic, at this point. Which again is exactly what Maya is concerned about, that Robin's platonic relationship with Steve will suffer even more because either of Robin prioritizing her romantic relationship, or Steve prioritizes his relationship over friendship. (Or both and they simply forget about each other)

Nancy, despite what the fandom says, is the least affected by those relationships, at least in the show. She has the most agency and always gets her plot outside of romance, and she is not as defined by her relationships as her romantic partners are (in the show). She's known as the investigator who is super smart and badass. However, she is still not allowed to have friends, besides the two that were mentioned in s2. Her romantic partners will become the most important people in her life. I kinda liked her friendship with Robin, but the fandom took it and made it into a romance, proving again that romantic relationships are the center of characters or are seen as more valuable and meaningful.

In s3, Mike's character was focused around El. He barely had time with his friends. El only gained another friend after temporarily breaking up with Mike. And again, in the beginning of s4, it's all about her romance, not so much how she misses her friends. Did she even write letters to Max and the party?

With Will, it's complicated. He's a gay kid discovering his sexuality and trying to live with that, so it's understandable that his arc is about romance/love. However, he also got majorly sidelined after s2, like does he have anything else going on besides that? What about discussing his trauma or focusing on other relationships besides Mike. Like I would have loved seeing him actively bond with El or hang out with Dustin (we never get to see them together)

Dustin has an independent story arc each season because his girlfriend isn't there with him, which allows him to have outside relationships and interests.

Lumax is the only couple that has some balance, like they are together, but the relationship doesn't define them like other characters. Both Lucas and Max make time for their friends and talk about other stuff. I would still argue that Lucas definitely deserves more character development and a more independent arc from Lumax. His struggles as a black kid often get sidelined in favor of the romantic plot.

So yes, Maya's fear that the show would make Robin ditch everything for romance is valid because it's happening all the time, especially to the teens! For example, even if the show develops the friendship between Nancy and Robin, the fandom would make it romantic. Like people cry as to why Maya can't promote the friendship between Nancy and Robin, when the majority of the fandom doesn't view it as platonic, and Maya knows that as well. Sidenote: It's also super annoying that as soon as a lesbian character hangs out with another girl, she automatically has to like her romantically, especially if she shows romantic interest in another character. (I have so many problems with Ronance, but that's not the point rn).

I don't want to see any Vickie slander either. The argument that this relationship is rushed or bad rep because it's more in the background is stupid. On the one hand people complain all the time that the cast is too big but when characters only get a few minutes of screentime to act as a love interest for a minor main character like Robin, it's also wrong. Plus, I literally don't want to hear that Vickie isn't much developed when people had no problems shipping Will with Gareth, who had just as much screentime if not less, and they never even met. You never gave Vickie a chance because she's a bisexual girl who shows interest in a sapphic relationship. Why are the standards so impossible high for lesbian/sapphic relationships? A dude literally has to look at one of the guys or be remotely cute and bam, the fandom comes up with thousands of headcanons.

Lastly, I don't want to see any Stobin or Steve slander. Steve is the first person to celebrate when Robin gets with Vickie, so Stobin is not the problem when it comes to Rovickie. A lot of people complain that Robin's character is all about Steve, and I sincerely think those people probably never had a best friend. Like my bff and I were super inseparable during our teen years, people legitimately thought we were either siblings or dating lmao, like my grandma asked if I was a lesbian because all I did was hang out with girls, esp my bff. If Steve isn't allowed to be happy for Robin's romantic relationships or isn't allowed to give her any advice in that department (and vice versa), are they really bffs? If you're not at least a little bit invested in your friendships with others, how can you even call yourself their friend? Robin caring about Steve, hanging out with Steve, literally wanting to combine with him, is just her having found a person that understands her. It's not making a lesbian character all about a guy (that's particularly the take when it comes to the ronance ship as Steve has history with both characters). I saw some takes that Steve is the only one benefiting from Stobin, as if Robin never gains anything from that relationship. Like Steve makes her comfortable, to a point she told him her biggest secret. He can handle her rants, he drives her around, and he listens to every problem because Robin can be fully herself around him. They are both gossiping and having fun, and most importantly, they understand each other because they share the trauma of being tortured in a Russian bunker like I need you all to get a grip quickly. Robin would hate a lot of you for shitting on Steve because that's her bestie if you like it or not. I'm also all for aro-ace lesbian representation. If you think a character is less gay because they focus on friendships or don't have a desire to date, that's a you problem.

But again, Maya never said Robin shouldn't date. The show simply shouldn't lose sight of the platonic relationships as well.

I also want to add that Stranger Things as a show in general would not suffer so much in both the romantic relationship and the platonic relationship department if they would give us more episodes. The main characters don't have a chance to branch out and meet others because of limited time. So when one of them gets a love interest, it's perceived as rushed because we are on a time crunch (especially if it's for Robin bc people wouldn't throw such a fit if Steve gets a gf last episode). And as I mentioned earlier, people already don't like the huge cast, so it's hard to add new characters with depth. So we are forced to have all the characters cross date/befriend, which also removes conflict in general because we don't have options and the fandom is mostly all about everyone gets along and everything is fine and dandy. Because be for real most of the teen characters in the main cast wouldn't be friends given their drama and history with each other. If we had 20 episodes, everything would be better, I guarantee you.

(In general, I want to say I'm not a fan of most ships in the show or fandom, and I think a lot of them would be better as friends even if I'm skeptical that they would genuinely get along after everything. Especially the teens don't have many strong friendship bonds and could benefit from forming platonic relationships over romantic ones. The only ships I truly respect are Lumax, Byler (if done right), Rovickie, Jancy if they get it together, and Jopper.)

[stevie-petey]

The way you write fights amazes me. And I have so so much to say about chapter one.

First of all you set everything up perfectly. I can see how Nancy is going to play into the conflict with Steve and bug. Steve feels left behind by bug and Nancy feels abandoned by Jonathan. Steve's fear of bug leaving him hurt me to my core, but I understand where bugs coming from. She doesn't want Steve to resent her for "taking him away" from everything he knows. She doesn't want her life with Steve to fall apart. She doesn't want to be like her father but her holding onto that resentment, fear and guilt is going to fuck up her relationships. You made it so believable with Dustin and bug. Bug was hurt by her brother and was upset with him mindlessly following Eddie around, without meaning to she pushed him more towards Eddie. I love that you don't hide bugs faults, and you always make both sides of the argument valid. How will Robin react to Steve and bugs fight? Will she be included when the murders first start or will Dustin's anger keep her out of the loop and feeling more abandoned? Also, OH MY FUCKING GOD THE JONATHAN PHONE CALL!!!!! As the self appointed president and member of the J.N.U ( jug nostalgia unit) THAT SENT ME INTO A SPIRAL! It also hurts because Jonathan still loves Nancy, and I feel like these "feelings" are only coming back because he misses his life before. He thinks everything went wrong after he left bug because it was different and new and that was hard on him. He doesn't necessarily want bug back, he misses when things were easy. He wants things to be easy again, and he's connecting bug with his life before. He thinks bug= easy/happiness when that's not necessarily the case. Or maybe he does have feelings for her, I just feel like they aren't coming from the right place. I do wonder if he'll remember when he sobers up, I feel like he would cause that's probably the first time bug hung up on him. He probably told argyle and argyle would remind him what he said and Jon would freak out. Bug probably feels so guilty about it. She's so worried about Nancy and Steve. Not only them but the whole party would fall apart. And bug would feel responsible. So she's holding all these feelings inside and we know what happens then😶. I feel so bad for my baby girl. I really like that alex started to sit with her. She deserves company after all she does for everyone else.

my dear anon u nailed everything so perfectly it makes me so :)) because you GET IT !!! you always understand my characters so well i love you for it sm

bug and steves fight is my roman empire because NEITHER were in the wrong. it ISNT fair of steve to place his entire future on bugs shoulder and it ISNT fair of bug to allow her past trauma to dictate how she reacts. she also shouldve put more thought into her relationship with steve and college. did she really think steve would just be a little toy that stays behind ??? he deserves more than that and she realized as much in this chapter lmao. robin and steve have a scene later about the fight so dw bbg i will explain it all soon <333

same goes for bug and dustin !!! for this one im more team dustin purely because bug IS being a little too possessive, but she also has always had her brother in her corner. him growing up and changing is jarring to her. and i loved exploring the faults with her !!!

jon :( i would love to be a member of the jnu pls </3 you so wonderfully explained everything and i cant say too much because i dive into the fight a bit more later, but youre right. jonathan misses when things were easy and in his mind: bug is easy. what they have is easy, but this doesnt mean its RIGHT. he misses how things were, jon hasnt really grown up yet like bug has. hes been left behind, almost. stuck in the past and hes really struggling. the feelings def arent coming from the right place just like steves feelings werent in season 2 :(

also shoutout to alex fr i love adding him in every season hes my own silly character who adds nothing to the plot except be funny and cool. a real one

[strangertheories]

the biggest reason I don't rlly like romantic ronance is because I don't really ship nancy with anyone - I am a firm believer in Single Nancy Supremacy! I think that the two romantic relationships we see her have (with steve and with jonathan) both struggled because of her grief in relation to barb - its much clearer with her relationship to steve as it literally breaks down as a result of her grief and guilt and that idea of faking happiness, and I think that may also be the case with her relationship with jonathan as well, and we know that she's been questioning things about the relationship and hiding that she feels unfulfilled, though in her eyes she feels like she wants steve, but i think she just remembers how easy things were with steve before all the upside-downy stuff and wants to go back to how things were back then. I feel as though she struggles in those relationships because the type of companionship she is searching for is the easy, comfortable, platonic love and closeness she had with barb back then, and its clearly a huge part of her character arc, since losing barb is what caused her to become actively involved in all the upside-downy stuff and piqued her interest in journalism through her work with murray (alongside her clear desire for solving mysteries and the like). what nancy needs right now isn't a romantic relationship, but a platonic female friendship, a connection that is not fueled by anything sexual at all - hence my stance as a Platonic ronance truther!! we already see the closeness and trust the two of them have with each other as they scheme to break in to see victor creel and as they work together later on, and I think that kind of platonic connection between two women will be wonderful for the both of them, and robin as well deserves a platonic friendship that isn't just with the guy people keep thinking she's in love with. I really hope the show does take it that way, especially since platonic relationships have played such a key role throughout the show (the party's dedication to each other (excluding byler and their romantic love for each other but thats a whole other thing), dustin's relationships with steve and eddie, platonic stobin ofc, jonathan and argyles friendship (this one is so important to me as well as robin and nancy because of how dedicated they are to each other), and especially the friendship between el and max (I could write a whole nother essay about that tbh)) and I think it would be a wonderful ending for both robin and nancy to find that friendship with each other!!

This is completely fair and valid, plus a good analysis. For me personally, I prefer Ronance to single Nancy. Firstly because I just like their dynamic being 80s sapphic enemies/rivals to lovers. Secondly, I think Robin dating an established character is easier writing wise cause the show adds too many people and has less time to flesh out Vickie because of it. However, I also like it because of Nancy's character arc.

I think her character is very male centric and the writers seem to abandon her life goals to push her into the box of being Steve's suburban wife or in other words, her canon worst nightmare. Despite being the badass feminist character, she feels so focused around men and Steve and it's really odd to me. Especially how weirdly confrontational she was to Robin because she assumed she was dating Steve. They broke up two years ago and Nancy never even loved him, it's so odd.

Anyways to circle back to my point, I like the idea of Nancy's ending not being her settling down with Steve. I'm very anti-St4ncy if you can't tell. I'm less opposed to Jonathan and Nancy but even then, she's still at risk of falling into her nightmare with him. I think this is part of the reason why single Nancy is good and canon wise, I think that's her best outcome.

However, Nancy says right from the start that she wants to truly rebel. She dates Steve as an act of rebellion but because she's rebelling in the way everyone else does, it's ultimately a way for her to safely fit in and tell herself she's doing something radical as Jonathan points out. She hides her true feelings because whilst she knows she won't be satisfied by the life she's heading towards, she's scared to do anything otherwise.

I think 80s badass sapphic feminist Nancy dating a woman would both act as her embracing her true feelings and rebelling away from the trap of being a suburban housewife that her mother fell into. Single Nancy can work for that too, but I think having Nancy canonically like girls would perfectly fit into her framework of actually truly rebelling against expectations instead of seeking safety in a boy she tried to force herself to love.

I think these two opinions can coexist but that's just why I think romantic Ronance is great for Nancy. I do agree that platonic relationships would be good for her, but I also think that this relationship romantically would work with her character arc too. Thanks for the ask!

[touch3d-by-ang3ls]

I saw ur stancy post and i would like to offer a diff pov. Nancys best friend died and she blamed herself for it. Obviously she is going to be struggling in a relationship. I would also like to say imo it is not the end of the world that she did not LOVE him. It wad messed up to say it when she did not feel it but just because you dont love someone doesnt mean the relationship is worthless and that you cant love them eventually. Also im sorry but steve left her drunk at a party and then blamed her for jonathan taking her home. That is 10x worse than anything nancy did imo. In season 4 steve is also blatantly homewrecking. Just because it was clear nancy and jonathan were struggling with long distance does not make it okay for steve to try and step in. (All with respect just curious on how you think steve is too good when he did these things)

I should probably edit/make another post with my opinion on steve, bc this one was specifically ab nancy, but yes there is alot of shit steve had done and I do not like s1 steve like, at all, he was a massive dick, but his character development was amazing imo. also, nancy was totally valid, like I said I'm a nancy defender till the day I die I love that girl BUTTTT they were both in the wrong a bit. steve leaving her at the party was also fucked up, but he was like majorly upset and strong emotions fuck you up alottt (speaking from experience, and I can 4sure say alot of ppl can relate) so I don't entirely blame him, his brain was fogged with nancy suddenly saying that n stuff etc etc, but I'm not defending him either.

I'm also re watching the entire show atm and am currently on s2, I haven't watched since early 2023, so my opinions and views are very likely to change since I'm not 13 anymore, lol

sorry if these are worded weird/i sound odd, I'm not good at putting my thoughts into words, especially over text/posts, lol.

but keep sending/commenting opinions ab it, that's the whole reason I posted mine !! I like reading other people's opinions and sometimes it even makes me see stuff from a dif pov, so like I said send more !! /np

[hersterical]

Remembering a few months back where I was talking to this twelve-year-old girl whose favorite show is Stranger Things. She very excitedly asked me to guess which guy she has a crush on. I started with who I think of as the more obvious ones. “Is it Steve? Lucas?” She shook her head and did her little 12-year-old girl giggle, her excitement growing. I start listing off every male character in the show that I could think of but she just kept shaking her head and being like “Noooo, you’re forgetting about someone!” Eventually my options to choose from has dwindled to one more option or middle-aged men. With mounting dread I asked “Is it Will?” “YES!!” She then proceeded to go on about how kind, brave and cute Will is. All of this is valid, Will is all of these things. It just surprised me because Will is so obviously gay that even my dad picked up on it and it sincerely shocked me that this girl didn’t know. If not from the show itself then when it was officially confirmed or when Noah Schnapp came out. As she went on for a while all I could think was ‘this girl is going to have a hard life.’ I decided that it wasn’t my place to tell her. At this point her finding out when byler has their emotional confession/first kiss scene is a canon event.

She has both the best and the worst taste in guys that I have seen in any 12-year-old ever.

(Edit: just want to make it clear as possible that this is just joking around, there is absolutely nothing with having a harmless crush on a gay guy, whether you’re aware that they’re gay or not. And Will definitely is one of if not the best character to have a crush on on this show. And when I talk about it being super obvious that he’s gay and I can’t believe other people don’t pick up on that, I mostly mean because of the scene where Will gives Mike the painting and when Will basically comes out to Jonathan at Surfer Boy Pizza. Literally even my dad was able to figure it out from that and he never thinks characters are gay unless explicitly stated. This is all just supposed to be in good fun)

[alwaysthequietones]

and what if some of us are anti jancy/stancy only because she is being treated as this manic pixie dream girl, hopefully she would find someone better in the college of HER dreams (not Steve’s dream/ Jonathan’s depressive dream) and can leave those high school relationships in the past honestly, it’s dragging her character down and people only see her as love interest for these characters.

Ok, first all, it is perfectly valid to not ship either ship.

Let's unpack the rest for a bit.

Nancy Wheeler is not a manic pixie dream girl. She's flawed (and we love characters that way!). And lets not pretend that this fandom doesn't have a hate boner for her. Some can't stand her for just breathing. And do I need to bring up the whole #notmynancy debacle jancies performed? She's got layers and her main storyline in this show has always been and always has been losing Barb and how that loss has impacted her in good and not so good ways.

Also let's make it clear here. Nancy is not a love interest to someone else. She is the motherf-king main event here. She has the second most screentime of all the characters. She pushes the plot forward. THEY are the love interest to HER. Not the other way around.

How does romance hinder her from going to Emerson? She IS going. And to dimish both Jonathan and Steve as mere "high school" romances that is "dragging her down", I feel, weirdly incorrect. They both play a huge part in her Barb trauma (and it's honestly the big factor in what has pushed and shifted this love triangle not just for the sake of having a love triangle). They've all had to navigate big, complex, and painful emotions. Now what they'll do with it in season 5, I don't know. But I feel like season 4 has made it clear to me Jonathan is not even TRYING to make it work with Nancy he just gives up and has resigned to dishonesty. While Steve has grown into someone (bc of her) that Nancy aligns with (Natalia said so). He's filled with hope! He's trying! SHE is the most important part! (stop holding those kids lines hostage, y'all are very weird and extra about that) Let's also not ignore the fact that Nancy reciprocated when it comes to Steve.

But I guess it's a wait and see if the Duffers feel like they're something Nancy should leave behind. *shrug*

[somethingnonenatural]

ngl if everyone screams about what steve did to nancy but then doesn’t care about what jonathan did to nancy then you just don’t care about nancy plain and simple. “steve slut shamed her and i hate it because it’s misogynistic and slut shaming and got nancy hurt” okay valid. “jonathan took photos of her naked and at a party but apologized so i’m fine with it” gross you’re not even caring about women or nancy at this point. if you have a problem with one character for doing something that is awful to women then maybe you should also look at the other character who does something awful to women. both of what they did was awful to nancy and can be talked about misogyny but only the jonathan people sweep it under the rug because he apologized. like no y’all don’t actually care about nancy or the problems that women face - you just hate steve plain and simple

[thestobingirlie]

Something that I think would help Nancy's character growth would be to have another character to tell her/ show her she's wrong, without it being in a way that also victimizes her.

In season 2. Wanting to tell Barb's parents. She was acting like Steve was against her, not against the lab. And with the argument the day after the party, Steve told her what she'd said and she turned it around to make herself the victim.

In season 3. Getting her and Jonathan fired from the paper. The boss at the paper made very valid points on why she was wrong and what led to them getting fired. But her mistreatment by the boss and other employees at other points overshadowed when she was told she was in the wrong, and made it seem like she wasn't in the wrong. And also the fight with Jonathan, with what she said to him, then turned it round to make it seem like he was the same as the misogynistic guys at the paper.

I just want her to be told she's wrong without but Barb, or but the guys at the paper, or but Fred.

Whenever someone tells her that she's wrong, she's always got a way to make herself the victim rather than owning up to her actions. It would be interesting to see her finally accept where she'd been wrong, and make an effort to repair it.

i think s4 should’ve had both robin and nancy butting heads (which totally makes sense for both of their characters!), and when robin is the one that helps solve most of the mysteries, with nancy as her sidekick, nancy would begin to develop more as a character.

for the past three years, nancy has the been the lead investigator, and jonathan her follower. but robin was the one doing most of the intellectual work in scoops troop. and even in s4, she was the one that found the relevant creel article, she got them in the room, and she saved max.

i think nancy has a complex about needed to save people, and i think she would feel… almost useless? if she wasn’t the one able to stand up and say “i’ve figured it out”. since barb’s death, she’s had to be the active one, she can’t stand sitting aside and watching others solve problems, she needs to play a role.

it was nancy that didn’t take robin seriously this season. she scoffed at the newspaper, and she told robin not to speak, and took the lead in questioning victor. and robin just kept proving herself. and i think realising that she’s playing the kind of role that others had for her in previous seasons would just make her start thinking, i guess. about the way she can treat people, and why she does.

so yeah. i actually think robin’s character (combined with the stancy reunion) could’ve been a perfect catalyst for change.

but instead we got girl power ✊

[mikewheeler-anon]

The epic intro because I got bored of the old one and it kind of made me sick to look at.

hi tumblr it’s me Michael (eye roll)

My friends were talking about this social media site called tumblr which was for nerds like us. I got interested and asked my friends Robin and Steve to help set up my own account. they must have thought that they were really funny when they they were setting up my blog because wtf is intellectual homosexual and why is my header a pride flag??? not that I have a problem with that stuff I’m not homophobic guys I swear!!!! (Rain fight says other wise). Well anyways they fucked up my tumblr because I can’t change it and no ones helping me!!!!

I feel like a lot of people hate me which fair enough I guess :(((/hj

Some things about me I’m pretty sure that’s what people put in their intro posts.i should probably know how to write one of these because I’ve been on tumblr for a while now and this is my second well technically third introduction.

I love to play dnd with my friends I’m out groups paladin and dungeon master. We have these really cool campaigns!!!

I also like to write things I guess like poetry and shit when I was 10 I tried writing a book and had my friend Will illustrate it and it was really cringy… but pretty fun at the same time though

Also I really like my friends!! :D we’re a pretty small group but we’re all pretty close. If you’re reading this Dustin Will Lucas El and Max too I guess you guys are all my best friends and really special to me.

I also really love my best friend Wills drawings, he’s really good at art!!

My dnis:

-mouthbreathers(cough cough Troy)

-people who don’t like dnd/hj

-Max Mayfield

That’s all I guess.

————————————————————————-

Headcanons/things to know about anon wheeler

-he’s more feral than show mike so this is kind of a feral Mike au

-he’s protective of his friends.

-this blog takes on place between season 3 and 4 although there are elements of the modern world in this such as Mike making references towards Weezer.

-I view this version of Mike as unlabelled as of now he’s unsure of his sexuality and is insecure from not knowing it. so both gay Mike and bi Mike truthers are valid in this blog. he’s 100% a boy kisser though.

-this version of Mike is crushing on Will Byers (@/willbyers06) he’s a bit more open of his feelings than he is in the show and is working up the courage to ask him out.

-he has asthma and is kind of unathletic 💔 kids used to call him Mike Weezer because of it and he’s reclaimed it from his discovery of the band Weezer.

-he’s probably adopted

-Mike dyed his hair blonde once when he had a sleepover with the party.

-he’s very argumentative and probably more disliked than he realises💔💔

-his main coping mechanism is bottling things up which probably isn’t good for his mental health.

-when Mike was 10 he tried writing a book inspired by dnd campaigns and it was honestly really bad and he cringes when he rereads it. The saving grace of this novel was little Wills illustrations.

-mikes also kind of clumsy he’s canonically been hospitalised like twice.

-kind of self deprecating and a bit of a hypocrite.

—————————————————————————

Ooc

-mod is 17

-I’m uncomfortable with nsfw

-I’m pretty sure I’m asexual so I won’t be doing sexual crap.

-basic dni

-I use Irish standard time and I’m chronically online so feel free to send asks whenever.

—————————————————————————

Rp groups

Basically there’s two main rp groups in the stranger things rp community.

There are a few double ups although they’re both different interpretations of the characters and are involved in different ships.

Some characters such as myself are involved in both groups although if group 1 ever gets their own Mike I’ll stick to group 2 to avoid confusion.

Taken rolls in each group.

Group 1.

-Steve

-Billy

-Jason

-Chrissy

-Eddie

-El

-Max

-Joyce

-Gareth

-Maggie (oc)

-2 background character blogs which have been inactive for a while 💀

Group 2.

-myself

-Will

-Dustin

-Max

-Jonathan

-Argyle

-Nancy

-Robin

-Sbeve

-stupid evil Russian clone (Mikhail)

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