#jonathan and will are so so paralleled to their mom

[groovinrightalong]

The Wheelers’ stories are all about trying to love somebody just because it’s what they should do, even though their heart belongs to somebody else.

The Byers’ stories are about feeling like they can’t be loved at all, and being proven wrong and given all the love they deserve.

And that’s why Mike and Will are gonna kiss okay sorry bye🫡

[carolperkinsexgirlfriend]

Steddie Upside-down AU Part 26

Part 1 Part 25

“We can’t just make Steve wait even longer because some stupid kids–” Eddie yells.

“Keyword kids, Munson,” Chief Hopper shouts back.

“–got themselves in a little bit of trouble!”

“You mean the goddamn Feds staking out their houses? With guns?” Chief Hopper asks. “That’s the ‘little trouble’ you’re talking about?”

“Why is that my proble–”

“Eddie,” Will says. 

Eddie stops pacing the length of the living room to look down at where Will’s curled up on the couch, hunching in as the voices raise. He sighs, ragged and angry, but sits on the couch, flapping his hand dismissively toward Chief Hopper. “Just fucking go,” he says meanly. “You were always going to.”

“Boy,” Wayne says, warningly. 

Eddie groans. “Fine, just hurry, okay?” Eddie’s nails are ragged from chewing on them. He doesn’t look up as his uncle and Chief Hopper leave the house. 

Mom, Jonathan, Barbara, and Nancy are hunched over at the table drinking coffee and analyzing the maps of the areas surrounding  the lab. Will feels like his intestines are tying themselves in knots. Mike could be being held at gunpoint by now with the rest of his friends. 

Steve’s still stuck on the other side, thirsty and hungry and running for his life. And alone. 

Eddie jumps up and starts pacing again, running his hand through his greasy hair. Some of it comes out in a clump when his fingers get caught in a knot. He looks like he’s unraveling. Without Steve, there’s nothing anchoring him here. Will’s afraid he’ll float away.

“You’re not the only one worried, you know,” Nancy says curtly, not even looking up from the map in front of her.

Eddie stops in his tracks. “Excuse me?” he demands.

“Nancy,” Jonatha warns.

“My parents' house is being watched,” she says, using her level voice like a weapon. “Mike is out there, trapped and defenseless.”

“Yeah, but–”

“And I care about Steve, too,” she snaps.

Eddie’s fingers curl into fists at his sides, one of his fingers sticking out strangely, like it can’t quite curl like the rest of them. 

Eddie doesn’t say anything, but he does sit down, teeth grinding hard enough to be audible. 

They go back to waiting in silence. It doesn’t last long. 

The door bursts open, people pouring in. Mike first, standing by a girl with a shaved head that WIll doesn’t recognize, Lucas and Dustin hot on their heels.

It’s Lucaus who spots him first, yelling, “Will!” and colliding with him with enough force to send him sprawling partially on top of Eddie. More arms follow one after another. Dustin, then Will’s, until they’re all piled onto the too-small couch, sending Eddie falling off the side with an oof.

Voices overlap, demanding answers Will’s not sure how to answer, where to start. He feels his breathing hitch.

“Alright, back off kiddies, let him breathe!” Eddie says, pulling bodies away from Will until he’s got a little bubble around himself. 

Dustin still has his palm on Will’s calf, like he can’t help himself, while Lucas and Mike look at Eddie distrustfully. “Who are you?” Mike demands.

“Mike!” Nancy reprimands, making him whirl around. 

“Nancy?” he asks, incredulous, seemingly only now noticing that his sister was in the room.

She rolls her eyes, looking back down to the table. 

Knowing the signs of a Wheeler verbal smackdown when he sees it, Will says, “this is Eddie,” shrinking in on himself a bit when they all turn to him. “He saved my life.”

“Cool,” Dustin breathes, but Lucas’s eyes only narrow further.

“In the Upside Down?” Mike asks.

“That what you all are calling the parallel world?” Eddie asks, swinging his legs out from under his to sit cross cross.

Mike nods, “yeah,” he says. “Where the Demogorgon comes from.”

“Do none of you twerps know what a Demogorgon looks like?” Eddie asks, everyone ignores him.

“So everything is okay now?” Lucas asks. “We can go home?”

Chief Hopper, having made his way inside to loom over them all in the living room with his arms crossed as Wayne closes the door behind them, says, “no way kid. The Feds are swarming your houses.”

“Oh, man,” Lucas says, head in hands. “I’m so grounded.”

“And we’re not leaving Steve,” Eddie says, glaring up at Chief Hopper as Wayne rolls his eyes in the doorway.

“Steve?” Mike demands, whipping his head around to glare at Will. “Nancy’s stupid boyfriend?”

“He’s not my boyfriend!”

Will nods. “He saved my life too."

Mike glares at him the way he always does right before he folds. He sighs, slumping down like Will had just asked him to do something abhorrent. “Ughhh, fiiiine. We’ll save stupid Steve Harrington.”

“You kids aren’t saving anyone,” Wayne says, shuffling into the kitchen and accepting the cup of coffee Joyce hands him with a smile. “We’ll get him.”

Chief Hopper asks, “any idea where he’ll be in there?” 

“I might know a way we can find out,” Mike says, turning to the unnamed girl where she’s standing awkwardly in the middle of the room, clutching at the hem of her dirty pink dress. “Can you find him?” 

She looks scared to have all the eyes on her, but nods, looking down. “I will find him.”

Part 27

[love-byers]

i'll never not be unhinged about this

the way it cuts to mike as he says "changing" after a full season of mike having a huge personality change and trying to grow up, and his relationship with will suffering because of it

"and i guess..." as mike hesitates to leave and everyone else bikes away

"if i'm being really honest..." as he hesitantly looks back at wills house, after repeatedly getting in trouble all season for lying to his girlfriend

"that's what scares me" as he hesitates to look away from wills house, looking conflicted and upset

"i don't want things to change" as he bikes away from wills house after a season of being mean to will and pushing him to let go of 'childish' things they used to enjoy together and accept that they will never be as close as they used to be

and the next time we see mike, he's in a dnd club. playing games. shaming lucas for trying to be normal and fit in.

and before hop is done saying "change", it cuts to will crying in jonathan's car.

"so i think maybe that's why i came in here. to try to maybe..." as mike walks into his house and stands silently in front of his mom, clearly too emotional to speak.

"...stop that change. to turn back the clock. to make thing go back to how they were." as mike accepts comfort from his mom (a clear parallel to s1 when he thought will was dead)

and after s4, we now know that mike barely reached out to will after this. why? because he was scared. he was scared of his feelings. that's what scares me. i don't want things to change.

they're endgame deal with it

[gayofthefae]

Was telling my mom about the Romeo and Juliet death scene blocking parallel in the ily scene and she was deeply confused for a while to the extent that she became unsure if I was talking about Jonathan and not Mike because she basically just...forgot they were dating

She said she thinks of him as gay so she was so earnestly confused for so long at why they would be paralleled to something romantic 😭

[bylertruth3r]

Mike's queercoding throught the seasons

season 1: Troy said homophobic things about Will to Mike's face because he suspected they were about Mike too, Mike literally pushed a bully to the floor because he was being homophobic to Will, the first thing he said when he first saw El was "that's not Will" and he wanted to send her back at first but changed his mind when he realized she knew where Will was, when Mike was with the party they used the more platonic lyrics of "Heroes" while when Mike was alone they used the romantic one while he was hugging his mom and thinking about Will and when they used this song again in s3 they didn't use these lyrics, they're reserved to byler, maybe they'll use this song again for their first kiss in s5, Karen subtly telling Mike she knows Mike is gay and likes Will

season 2: Mike starts all the byler interactions, really touchy with Will, really protective of Will and called him and literally ran to Will's house after school because he was worried about him, he pushed Dustin's hand away from Will because he wanted to be the one to take care of Will, crazy together which parallels the "only love makes you that crazy" Jancy scene, asking Will to be his friend was the best thing he's ever done, he was literally crying, that's when he realized he likes Will which is why he pushed Will into dancing with that girl and regretted it a second later, he hates being recorded but didn't complain when Will was recording him, he only smiles in pics with Will

season 3: he was avoiding Will to get over him and during the scene of El and Mike kissing they played a song about falling in love with a friend while you're already dating someone else, also the scene of him not kissing El back and keeping his eyes open was his gay awakening (and the song playing in the background was used during Robin's coming out) and it's the season where he realized he's in love with Will, said "it's not my fault you don't like girls" to Will while not knowing Will was gay so he was projecting on Will and lying to himself, literally biked across town in the rain to apologize to him, hugged Will twice or for a really long time in the last episode and buried his face into Will's neck, he was acting like he didn't like dnd and trying to be "normal" and someone he's not

season 4: joined a dnd club, he had a crush on Eddie and got influenced by him, the gay tension with Will was obvious and the hug at the airport was really awkward because of Mike, he gets jealous because he thinks Will's painting was for Angela and that Will liked her (he doesn't know Will is gay), he checked out Angela's boyfriend, he got mad about Will not paying attention to him and took Will's words romantically even thought Will meant it platonically and felt the need to clarify that they're friends, gay flirting in Jonathan's room with Will, he basically said "my friends are great but they're not you" to Will, literally nodded and related to Will talking about being gay and being afraid of people not liking the truth, a lot of lip staring and breath catching and gasping for air in the van, he realized Will loves him back and was really relieved and happy about it, his POV of Will is literally him being bathed in sunlight, he lied during the monologue when he said he started loving El in the woods because the first thing he said when he first saw her was "that's not Will" and he wanted to send her back at first but changed his mind when he realized she knew where Will was, gay shoulder touch

season 5 (according to leaks and interviews) : he's wearing Will's shoes, El is gonna break up with him, he's gonna be the leader of the party again and he's gonna listen to what Will told him in the van, he's gonna do what he wants and he won't have to do things just because people expect them from him, Will is gonna kiss his forehead, he's gonna be really protective of Will and he's gonna bond with Robin about his fear of Will being in danger, he's gonna kiss Will

[heyitspersephone]

Thinking about stranger things again now that the strikes are over and how, narratively, it would be way, WAY cooler to have Mike get Vecna’d instead of Will in s5

It’s just something about the way Mike’s trauma is never addressed or handled in any way?? Like, he hugs his mom twice and then when he was depressed in season 2 and 4 nobody did anything (his parents scolded him for his behavior in s2 ig but that’s not support). His best friend went missing leaving from his house, he watched his body get pulled from the quarry, watched El (in his eyes) kill herself stopping the demogorgon, watched Will be possessed, saw Bob die, was in Star Court when everything went down, saw Billy die, had his best friend move away, was SHOT AT (and really too few people talk about the shooting in Cali bc omg??), buried a body, and watched the apocalypse start. And that’s just off the top of my head.

(And yes I’m aware that the other characters (especially Will) are traumatized too but I will get to my point in a second just hold on)

The plot is geared towards this idea that Will and Henry have to have some big face off (and they should, in my opinion, but I don’t think it should be in a possession, or at least not the the Vecna kind of possession, yk?) but that makes it all the better, writing wise, to have mike be the one in danger. Will was helpless and hiding in s1, I think Will should get his big strong moments in s5 where he gets to be the hero of the story.

It would just be a lot more fun to work with Mike being Vecna’d than Will, because what are we going to bring up with Will’s visions? His dad? His sexuality? The events of s1 from his perspective? It would be cool to see, for sure, but we already know most of that. Mike, on the other hand, has a number of untapped things, like jumping off the quarry, why he’s so hesitant to tell El he loves her, how someone who was smart and kind enough to take El in in s1 and come up with the spy and sauna plans in s2 and s3 could turn into the oblivious asshole that he was in s3 and s4 (he needs therapy, ik, I still love his character but I want to explore the reasons he went from his s2 characterization to his s3 one)

It would be a very interesting parallel, I think, to explore Mike’s thought processes in this way, especially with all of Mike’s repression business (bc whether you ship byler or milkvan he is repressing his feelings HARD. Like, beyond his inability to say I love you there’s the fact that he doesn’t bring up the apparent many times he called pre-s4 during the Rink O Mania fight?? That literally would’ve absolved him of guilt in that argument since he WAS reaching out to Will the whole time? Hellooooo????).

Anyways, this all brings me to my main point: Vecna targets isolation as much as he targets trauma and guilt. The whole party was traumatized by the events in s1, s2, and s3, but Max was the one targeted. Plus, Henry went for Fred, Chrissy, and Patrick (I think his name was Patrick) instead of going for the perceivably easy targets that the mcs would make (ik narratively that would’ve made it more boring but shhh), so why Max and those three specifically? They were isolated. Lucas and Erica have each other, Dustin goes to Steve and Robin, Will and El have each other and Jonathan and Joyce, Nancy probably goes to Jonathan, and who does Mike go to?

No one. And don’t say Nancy because if those two have heart to hearts then I’m the next coming of Christ. Max separated herself from the Party in the aftermath of her grief and guilt over Billy, and it feels quite obvious that Mike was doing the same (like I said, he has repression issues). So Mike is traumatized, alone, and guilty (be it Will getting taken from Mike’s house, losing El in front of him multiple times, the many deaths he has witnessed, or the internalized homophobia angle), which makes him more of a target than Will, in my opinion (or at least an easier one, especially given his tendency to put himself on the line during fights (quarry, most of s2, s3 mindflayer fight), which would set him up on the suicidal ideation path)

Furthermore, as I’ve seen a few other people point out (and I can’t find the posts but one of them had eight screenshots of the various moments), Mike is always the one getting in the way, so it would be a strategic move for Henry to target him to get him out of the picture. Mike was the one that found El and got her involved in saving Will s1, he was the one who came up with the spy plan and called out the ambush in s2, he was the one to monologue Will out of his possession s2, he was the one with the sauna plan for Billy in s3, he was the one trying to help El get the strength to fight s4 (even if the monologue sucked ass it’s the intention that counts). As much as people like to hate on Mike, he is in the leader position most of the time when the party is grouped up (barring his mental health struggles slowing that down beginning of s3 and throughout s4, but he’s still capable of it). He’s the idea man, and he’s the one whose character’s foundations were built on the desire to keep his friends safe, so it would be a very fun plot line to watch him be the one targeted in s5. Like Will said, as lovestruck and cheesy as he was, Mike is the heart of the party when he’s on his A-game, so Henry should 100% be trying to keep him in the issues he’s been struggling with.

Obviously, Will and El are the Targets with a capital T for Henry since they’re the ones that got away or whatever, but I think Mike is a weakness of Will’s (and El’s tbh but also I think they need to have separate character arcs and I don’t exactly ship milkvan) that should be exploited.

TL;DR: Mike should get Vecna’d instead of Will in s5 because it would make sense in lore and be a very cool way to resolve his character arc

[alcalystrasz]

Here's the list of all my theories about Stranger Things 5 (not in order):

-Robin dies -> either to sacrifice herself (for Vickie or Steve) or she gets killed by Vecna.

-Max dies -> she doesn't wake up of her coma (episode 6 or 7, preferably after Robin's death).

=> After everyone starts to lose hope, they all get the courage to read her letters and they get determined to avenge her and the other deaths (even from previous seasons, such as Barbara for Nancy).

-Jonathan dies -> by saving Nancy or Will.

=> causes an emotional damage to Will, losing his big brother, the only one who knew about who he was.

-Mike and Eleven break up because Mike wants them to be just friends.

-Mike finally tells Will he's in love with him (episode 6 or 7, preferably after Max's death).

-Mike and Will go in the Upside Down (no reason in my mind right now, except it could be to find something).

=> They find Eddie alive (not dead because or the following reason: it's impossible to get killed in the Upside Down if you're not killed by Vecna himself -> Barb was killed by Vecna in the Upside Down since we see her in the pool she died, trapped like Chrissy, Vecna's mother etc. This could explain why Vecna didn't die when Nancy, Steve and Robin tried in S4). ((This theory is the least possible one in my mind, just so you know)) => he really dies though in the end.

Then, mostly everyone becomes a target of Vecna. Here's the list and the causes (why are they a target) and the characters that saves them (in order):

-Dustin is a target -> cause: Eddie's death, as he feels guilt for letting him go back in the Upside Down without him -> Steve or Lucas saves him because of their strong friendship.

-Lucas is a target -> cause: He feels guilt for not saving Max before Vecna takes her -> Max (if she doesn't die) or Erica saves him.

*Robin dies at this moment before the others gets targeted*

-Steve is a target -> cause: He feels guilt because he couldn't save Robin from the hands of Vecna -> Nancy saves him.

-Nancy is a target -> cause: She feels guilt because of Barbara and Steve being a target, but mostly of Barb -> Jonathan saves her by dying = she feels a second guilt and Steve feels guilt too.

*Jonathan dies at this moment*

-Will is a target -> cause: Vecna shows him his old memories (with his mom, Jonathan, Mike and the Party), but mostly bad memories to show him how his life is miserable. He asks Will to join him but refuses -> The music "Should I Stay or Should I Go" gets a door to open (just like Max when "Running up That Hill" started), and Mike's voice gets Will to escape Vecna's lair. He crushes his left eye before escaping (foreshadowing from Eddie during the DnD campaign in S4).

-Mike is a target (endgame, mostly end of episode 7 or beginning of episode 8) -> El saves him by fighting with Vecna but she still doesn't kill him. She gets hurt because he got stronger.

Now, the most crazy theory:

-Everyone finds a plan: Time travel.

=> They think, if the time in the Upside Down stopped the day Will got into the U.D, maybe he's the key of the U.D. Why? Maybe Vecna gave him this "power" because they're alike (sensitive, lonely, and good drawer). So they think if Will goes back inside, they can come back to the day he got kidnapped by Vecna and kill him when he was less strong.

And the Endgame theories (so episode 8 or end of episode 7):

-The Party finally gets back together and are going to be the leaders of the last episode.

-Eleven saves Hawkins by killing Vecna.

=> Parallel with the first season: Eleven gets Vecna on the wall, being ready to kill him but before that, she turns her head to Mike or the Party and says "Goodbye" one last time just like in the final of season 1. She then kills Vecna inside of the U.D creating a sort of supernova (because she erases him like the Demogorgon in s1, but since she did that outside of the U.D and she teleported them in it, and this time she's inside, this world can't support it and it makes a sort of supernova). This causes the U.D to get closed forever and Eleven dies, closing the possibility of interacting with the U.D from the real world.

That's it!! Tell me what you guys think about this, it's the main theories in big lines, some things a more precise obviously.

[cloudycleric]

one quick thing i wanted to point out real quick, as i am doing research for my big video which is driving me to the point of insanity,

both will byers & ken no-last-name-given from suspicious minds are eerily similar. canonically in the timeline, ken is the first confirmed gay character of the series, a person who is participating in MK ultra. (it's speculated that ken is named after a real person who participated in MK ultra, ken kesey, who wrote the book one flew over the cuckoo's nest which explores themes of homosexuality.)

both ken (book ken, not real ken) & will have a big similarity: their supernatural abilities are both forms of clairvoyance, not telekinesis. ken apparently comes from a family that he says has a big connection to supernatural abilities & such, but was kicked out after being discovered as gay.

obviously, there are big differences in both will & ken's story, but i do think the parallels are interesting. one thing it does make me wonder, though, is whether or not the byers have a history of supernatural abilities like ken's was. joyce does mention a history of mental illness in her family in the very first season, which is a commonly used excuse in many stories covering paranormal themes for supernatural abilities.

is it possible that maybe joyce is so inclined to have her theories always proven correct because she has some sort of supernatural instinct or clairvoyance telling her things? jonathan is a little harder of a case, but he does have the investigative instinct that his mother has throughout the show whenever he leads searches on his own. (s1: searching for the demogorgon at night & discovering his mom is correct, s2: proving that HNL is still up & running, s3: discovering the rat problems, s4: helping the california gang come to the conclusion that the government is still very involved with finding el & he did help the gang find the nina project.)

i dunno. food for thought.

[erikiara80]

Theory: the car crash in the winter of 1976 (Part II)

You can read Part I here

To sum up: my theory is that Joyce had a son with Lonnie, Jonathan, but then she left him because Lonnie is an a-hole. She always liked Hopper, so they finally got together and they had Will (and maybe El). The story of Agent Orange could be just a hint at the LSD mind control experiments. Anyway, in 1976 something bad happened and Hopper and El? were separated from their family (see Part I). Love this Father and daughter missing.

Not sure if Brenner was involved, but there are hints that Lonnie was. He's heavily paralleled to Billy's father, and in Billy's memory Neil believed that his wife was cheating on him. The first thing Lonnie asks Jon is if Hopper is still chief, and the moment he thinks that Will is dead, he "comes home", calls Joyce babe and tells her that she needs him. I think he didn't just want the money, he wanted his family back. And Will wasn't part of it.

A possible hint in The First Shadow that Lonnie did something to Joyce and her family is the mention of him stealing the baby from the nativity scene. Will has always been associated with Jesus...

It's also interesting, and could be evidence of different timelines, that Will is associated with fire but El is associated with cold water. Maybe Will died in the fire in one timeline, and in another one El drowned in a lake? Maybe they were both in danger but their parents could only save one of them. They both say many times that they can't breath, which is also a parallel with Sarah, so I think it's clear that something bad happened to both of them.

Did Will burn alive? I hope not but... In 3x08, when Joyce hugs him, he says that he can't breath, he's suffocating. In Fred's vision, he sees a coffin with the grandfather clock that has the name Williams engraved on it. And in 4x04 we see Billy/William's tombstone.

El sees Heather being dragged underwater, after Max opens "the floodgates" (Owens mentions them when he explains the anniversary of the event) If Billy is paralleled to Will, Heather is paralleled to El, so maybe this scene shows us what happened to El in the past.

The vanishing of Will Byers and The case of the missing lifeguard are connected.

And when she goes into Billy's memories, there's a transition from the car crash and El in the water. Car in a lake -> El separated from her family.

Hints that Lonnie might've been involved in the car crash

In Lonnie's very first scene, there's a little bike in his house, and Jon checks his trunk. Not a good sign.

After Joyce breaks the wall with the axe, the only thing she sees is her car. Possible hint that after the car crash one of the children was taken away from the family by powers. Time powers... Tears in the fabric of time and space...

That night, when Lonnie arrives, the first thing we see is his car headlights.

Then he closes "the door" that Will used to communicate with his mom, with a hammer. As he talks about the quarry and Joyce freezing to death.

In 2x06, after they bring Will to the lab, after he screams that he feels like he's burning (Hopper is screaming too, but they're using water! Always water and fire) there's a transition to Steve's car, and the song in this scene is Hammer to Fall. In 2x09 Jon mentions Lonnie and the hammer they used to build Castle Byers.

In S4 there's another connection between Lonnie, cars, time loops and the resentment between him and Joyce. When Jon says that the cycle never ends. We see part of the conversation through the broken window of a car.

Other hints

Billy and Max

They both have many parallels with Will, and most of their scenes together take place in the car. Billy's car is actually the first thing we see.

They always fight in that car.

Billy tries to run over the kids. This reminds me of the night Will vanishes

And the scene of Billy's possession IS a parallel to the 1x01 scene. He and Will both run off the road

In 3x07, Billy almost burns alive in his car

In S4, Max confesses that she had wished her brother to die in a car accident

In 2x05, Terry shows El a police car chase!

This scene is so important. I'm working on a new theory, but I'll just say that Terry (or whoever is communicating with El) isn't just randomly switching the channels. She's telling a story. Henry's story and how El got involved.

In fact, she shows El a blonde woman ("Virginia"?/connection to the Creel and how the lab kids were created?) then the Family Feud score (a family feud, hm) A donut commercial with many identical donuts (imo, ref to the lab kids), the commercial of a Computer Supercenter (the lab/Nina/this whole experiment) and then a police chase and someone pouring coffe into a cup. I think this is a huge hint at a car crash that involved Hopper. And I don't know why else Terry would show El a police car chase tbh. Then, in 2x07, Kali calls Hopper policeman many times. A clear connection with the car chase, imo.

When El looks for the source in S3, the first thing she sees in the eye of the Mind Flayer storm is Billy's damaged car. Since Billy is paralleled to Will, this could mean that the source of everything started with a car crash and powers?

I'm also thinking about this shot in the Vecna game. It looks very similar to a shot in Benny's diner in S4. Jason in a white outfit, like Henry, Christmas lights, a police car, the letters W and E, and another car with something that looks a lot like the Mind Flayer looming over it.

And don't forget Joyce and Hopper escaping from Grigori and the engine of the police car literally exploding. And where do they find another car? At a Seven Eleven convenience store

There are many other hints, but I think these ones are the most relevant.

[greenfiend]

Hi!! Ive been really enjoying your blog and your Will flayed Hopper theory and all the back to the future parallels...

and now I've been wondering about Nancy and Jonathan with how they parallel to George and Lorraine from back to the future and what that could entail? especially with the whole "mom was trying to bang her own son" and how the 8flix guy said that nancy is Jonathan's mom in someway

idk if it's connected or not so I'm wondering what you might think abt it!

Flayed Hopper theory

8flix post

Thanks anon!!!

In regards to Jonathan and Nancy paralleling Marty and Lorraine… hmm… been thinking about it.

Cycles are a huge thing in ST. Everyone seems to be repeating them.

Nancy and Joyce definitely have similarities. Both were obsessed with finding someone in ST1 and discovering truths. They’re both very strong women that don’t let others push them around.

I also know that they’re some timeline weirdness going on. If you haven’t seen the Edward Creel theory posts check them out.

Now I do know this 8flix guy is onto something though… you know why? This reference:

Obvious BttF reference. Jonathan falls while putting on his pants the EXACT same way Marty does! Here’s the kicker: this is the scene where Marty first meets a younger Lorraine aka… his mother…

[kiirotoao]

I keep getting asked what I’d like to see / theories for s5, so I’m listing them here!

(In blurb form because I have too many lol)

MORE. WILLEL. OR. DEATH. I’d particularly love some parallels from s1, maybe Will talking to El in the void or something? Because

Will has powers!! I’d love to see him have some kind of time/energy/electrical/celestial powers to mirror his Will the Wise persona

JOPPER WEDDING OR DEATH ALSO THIS IS A NON NEGOTIABLE DUFFERS

Robin being a BAMF and impressing Vickie or vice versa (I’m currently more sold on Robin being the BAMF because if switched that’s just Ronance. Which also. Ronance endgame please and thank you???)

Stonathan endgame or at least bonding. Can you tell that the CGI snippets made me insane

Flickergate duh

Pocketgate!!! And specifically Mike confessing to Will, Will thinking it’s too good to be true, then Mike pulling out the letter to prove it in dear desperation

Based on the “6 little nuggets” anecdote, I think Steve might unfortunately be toast because he has his dream with The Party, y’know

There will be a dragon of some sort based on Will’s painting? Maybe like Vecna, the Mind Flayer, and the demogorgons will combine into one big ugly creature to defeat? Dramatic but I have no idea

The spores might also be more lethal and infect people? Or maybe cause widespread hallucinations? They were everywhere in that finale and that cannot be healthy. Yes I know that Hopper and Dustin didn’t suffer any side effects of them in s2 but Vecna’s still alive so I think maybe they could become a new force

I believe in the Kas theory! But not for Eddie. I’m between Kas being Will, El, or Mike

I hope that Nancy doesn’t end up with anyone or it’s implied that she, Steve, and Jonathan, are happy being single for that time until they completely understand themselves and what they want

Vecna appearing in nightmares!! I’d love to see the subconscious come into play and it would serve to flesh out our main cast even more than they already are (especially Mike Wheeler and his internal gay crisis)

Jonathan, Mike, Lucas, Erica, and Murray in the Upside Down please!! They have never been that’s why, and no, I don’t count the tunnels in s2 because they didn’t flip upside down to enter those so I don’t think it was quite the Upside Down

Full and integrated Hopper-Byers family scene at the end of the season. Like them playing Monopoly or something or just existing together in the same house. Being happy. Please dear God.

Will coming out to his mom or Jonathan or Dustin or Lucas or anyone, really

EVERYBODY WANT TO RULE THE WORLD BY TEARS FOR FEARS preferably in the ending scene but anywhere would suffice and I’m not saying this just because I love this song but the lyrics literally fit so well I don’t think I’ll recover if his song isn’t in s5

A gate may exist at the library - it’s in the center of the earthquake and it’s where Will was taken in s1. I think Henry may want to destroy it because it contains so much information

I’d love a s2 parallel where Lucas talks to his dad again. Maybe about Max, maybe about all the stress, something. More sweet parent moments

Based off of the Byler fights in episodes 3 (s3) and 2 (s4), I think maybe they’ll fight again in s5e1?

And then resolve by s5e5

Wherein Heros (Bowie’s og version) will play when Mike and Will kiss

I just really really want Dustin being the lord of the demodogs. Like d’Art returns and recognizes Dustin and they help to fight against Vecna like fighting fire with fire it’d be so epic you see the vision right?

I’d love to see a return of Kali!! Either as a friend or villain recruited/controlled by Vecna it’d be pretty cool either way

Max lives. Period

[ladyfromaspookyforest]

Jancy vs M11

Stranger Things 4 and the Long Distance Relationship

Trying to learn the art of brevity. Bullet points, lez go. Jancy Mildew

Jonathan has a photo of him and Nancy on his dresser. El has a shrine to Mike. Note that Jonathan's photo is of both of them and El's photos are mostly just of Mike.

Jonathan is not being honest with Nancy about college. El is not being honest with Mike about high school. Both of these come in the form of letters: one withheld and one sent. One is a secret, one is a lie.

Jonathan: "No, because if I told her the truth, then she'd just throw her dreams out the window to come out here and be with me." Mike: "But what if after all this is over, she doesn't need me anymore?" Jonathan is worried Nancy will sacrifice her own happiness for him because she loves him. Mike is worried El is going to leave him behind. Opposite ends of the spectrum.

Jonathan: "Before you know it, we're just like my mom and dad. We're divorced, my kids hate me--" Mike: "Maybe I should have said something and if I'd said that thing, then maybe she'd want me there with her." Jonathan is stating that the consequence of conforming to what one party in the relationship thinks the other wants is a one-way ticket to the Joyce and Lonnie Show. Mike is talking about doing exactly that so he won't be alone.

Jonathan: openly discusses his specific lie to Nancy with Argyle. Mike: dances around what he didn't say to El while talking to Will.

Jonathan and Argyle discussing relationship problems: stoner comedy and farting. Mike and Will discussing relationship problems: [Tender, emotional music]

Jonathan: "[She's] incredibly ambitious and she's never done a single thing halfway in her life...That's why I love her." Nancy: "He's caring and compassionate. He's so protective over the people that he loves and he'll never back down from what's right...no matter the pressure, no matter the personal cost. That's why I love him." Mike: "I love you for exactly who you are. You're my superhero."

Jonathan: "Nancy, I'm sorry I wasn't here...Are we okay?" Will: "Does she talk to you at all?" Mike: "Not much. I mean, a little bit." Despite the fact that Jonathan's secret has still not been revealed, he makes sure he and Nancy are okay. Despite having supposedly given El what she wanted, Mike and El aren't really speaking.

Nancy: "Your application letter. Did it ever come?" Jonathan: "No, um, not yet." Jonathan's secret is still looming over them as they head into season 5, a conflict that will require later resolution. Mike's inability to tell El he loves her has been resolved. Will's lie to Mike about the painting, on the other hand, is still looming and waiting to come out (ha) in season 5. Dishonesty is a theme for both Jancy and Melvin, but one of them has been "resolved." Note that Jonathan's secret has evolved into a lie.

While I am biased, I'm trying not to lean TOO hard on my Byler brain here because that's not really the point of the post. It's about the parallels between Jancy and Mildred. So let's say Mike's telling the truth. His whole monologue was honest. The conflict between the two has STILL NOT BEEN RESOLVED. What is the reason for this? Even if we choose to interpret Mike not telling Eleven he loves her as his secret like Jonathan not telling Nancy about college is his, Jonathan is keeping this secret to protect Nancy while Mike is keeping his to protect himself. This still reveals the unhealthy mentality of Miller Light's relationship. Additionally, Mike's "secret" has come out, so there should be no conflict. Jonathan's hasn't yet, so conflict logically remains.

And if we choose to look at the speech as dishonest, this is Mike's act of shaping himself to his partner's desires. AKA his act of conformity that Jonathan spoke about earlier leading to them ending up just like his parents. Jonathan expressed that resentment would grow and we can already see that El is not satisfied with the outcome of this "confession."

Lastly, for the sake of fairness, I can't tell if there's a photo of Jonathan on here.

And there's no evidence of El in Mike's room. Mike and Nancy are the two characters in the love triangles and neither has immediately apparent evidence of their SO in their room.

EDIT: It has been brought to my attention that Nancy has a poster that used to be Jonathan's, but what I find a lot more interesting is the suggestion that the photos Nancy has on her walls and not on the corkboard are Jonathan's. That actually makes a lot of sense as we know he is a photographer and they look similar to some of the photos he has in his room. Additionally, I went back to season 1 to look at Nancy's bedroom prior to Jonathan and there are no photos like this present.

And while I had every intention of keeping this as focused on Mlvn/Jancy as I could and not Byler/Jancy, I simply cannot ignore the fact that Nancy and Mike have both posted Jonathan and Will's art on their walls. While the camera never focuses on these details like it does the photos of Jonathan and Nancy at the Byers house or the Mike Box in El's room, like Will's drawings on Mike's walls, the photos are background details that show how much the Wheelers' respective Byers has integrated into their lives. Moving on.

El spends the season getting to know herself. Nancy spends it getting to reknow Steve. This could hint at Mike and El breaking up for El to be on her own and Nancy and Jonathan breaking up to get Stancy back together.

However, I think there are two major indicators that this is not what will happen.

The scene when Nancy and Jonathan talked about why they love each other, providing genuine reasons.

A large part of S4 focused on the Mike/El relationship and concluded with a "resolution" of the supposed problem. A large part of S4 focused on the Nancy/Steve relationship, involving Steve laying out his desires for the future. In both situations, all cards are on the table (unless, you know, gay). There isn't a lot left to drive the dynamic in the following season (in a positive direction), while Jonathan's letter and Will's painting are still lies waiting to instigate conflict and subsequent resolution.

So once again, for the sake of fairness, Jonathan's lie blowing up in his face after their seemingly happy reunion could parallel El's lie blowing up in her face after Milkvan's seemingly happy reunion. However, timing really is key and Will's lie is still in play. It's really impossible to parallel Jancy and Marvin without also paralleling Byler. (I keep trying)

Anyway, that's that. Two lying long distance relationships on the verge of potential collapse. FTR I have no stakes in Jancy versus Stancy, I just THINK it will be Jancy. I am clearly biased towards Byler. That being said, even if Byler does not happen, Moldeven appears to be heading in the direction of break-up while Jancy seems recoverable, based primarily on the extent of the lies, the intent (once again, I have to tie Byler back in because Will and Jonathan both lied in an attempt to make Mike and Nancy happy while Mike and El lied to one another to protect themselves), and the timing.

LOL remember I said I was going to try to be brief this time?

[dinitride-art]

Mike Wheeler in Season 4 (Analysis/Theory)pt.1/2

On screen in season four we didn’t see Joyce have a panic attack. We’ve seen her before, like in season one when Will went missing, but it’s interesting that they mentioned Joyce’s anxiety when it didn’t really come up. 

Will mentions it in this scene, after El’s been arrested and her note has been handed over. He says something along the lines of, “-[My moms probably halfway to a panic attack right now]-” but we don’t see that when she’s trying to call later. Granted Murray is there to alleviate her worries when she can’t get through but it never gets to a point that is concerning. 

Right after Will says this, he and Mike talk. And Will spends that conversation reassuring Mike that everything's going to be alright. This is far from the first time we’ve seen similarities between Mike and Joyce. They are constantly paralleled in the first season. But this also isn’t the first time we’ve seen Mike have a reaction to stressful situations that’s like this. It usually looks like an overreaction to the immediate situation- like when he hit Hopper in season two after El came back. And then Hopper changed gears completely and just held him until he calmed down. 

We aren’t told a lot of things when it comes to Mike. Probably because we see so much of him and his narration, we don’t necessarily need to be told, but that makes it interesting when trying to interpret context clues. 

Will mentioning Joyce having a panic attack, and the rest of the scene being spent making sure Mike’s okay, might be telling us exactly what’s happening with Mike. 

We can see that Will’s choosing his words carefully. He’s thinking a lot about how to handle this conversation. Mike doesn’t have that same range of expressions. 

Mike’s over the shoulder shot is also a bit different than what we see with Will. It’s closer to his face and angled so we see less of his expression and more of what he’s seeing. With Will’s OTS shot, they had more of an even share of the shot. It’s pretty usual for us to see more of what Mike’s perceiving than Mike himself, but thinking about it within the context of Mike’s struggles in season four it could offer an explanation as to why were never told what’s going on with Mike. At least not in words. 

Mike’s posture is also making him look lower than Will. Like, emotionally. There’s also a lamp behind Will’s head, so that and the lighting shows Will’s role in this scene. Which is comforting Mike. (Mike’s also in front of the only orange rectangle in Jonathan’s wall hanging which is concerning because orange means danger. Established in season two with the pumpkins.) Will being placed in front of a band poster (I believe its the smiths? I might be remembering wrong though) also puts Will in the position of music. Which in season four, has connections to fending off Vecna’s curse. It’s pretty much the same idea as the light. 

So Will is Mike’s light and his music. What this seems to be saying is that Will’s presence is protecting Mike from darkness/evil/Vecna. Or is foreshadowing that happening in season five. 

But the main point is that Will is successful in cheering Mike up. And the scene might be showing us that Mike and Joyce have similar struggles with anxiety. 

Jonathan and Will also seem to decide which person they’re responsible for? Like in the scene where they’re burying the dead body of ‘Mr. unnamed hero agent man’ and Argyle’s freaking out- and then Mike’s just standing there. 

This is just Mike looking at Will, but it’s also showing who he looks for assurance in. Because Mike’s not doing well this season, that’s why there are so many heart to hearts, and Mike and Will moments. Because Mike needs constant reassurance in order to continue functioning. At least, that’s what seems like could be happening. 

And in these two shots, we see first- Jonathan going and calming Argyle down, and then going after him. We also see Mike looking at Will, and his entire head is in shadow. Will’s in the center of the frame, and in the light. 

And we all know the triple take. (colour wise, Mike’s in front of a yellow car, and Will’s in front of a blue car. Possibly showing their changing roles in their relationship. In season two and three, Mike was the one who was taking care of Will, and now that’s flipped. Because now Mike’s the one who’s struggling. And needs Will.) 

We know that Mike was looking to Will the entire time they’ve been burrying the body. But it could be Mike staring at Will for the sake of staring at him, as much as it could be Mike wanting reassurance. 

And he gets that the next time we see them. 

Again, Mike’s been positioned in front of an ominous part of the background. This time it’s the mountain in shadow, while Will is in front of the open sky and plant life. Mike holding a seven up specifically, is also showing us that something is very wrong. Seven is a number established as a bad sign in the first episode of season one, and that had to do with Will. And Mike, because he was the one Will told. Mike being the one with a seven is again showing how their roles have flipped over in terms of what they both need from each other. Will needs Mike to be okay, and Mike needs to be okay.

The orange truck is closest to Mike in frame, and again Will is in front of blue cars.

While Mike is in front of a yellow truck. 

Their backgrounds are contrasting again, with Will’s being light, and Mike’s being shadow. Their faces have a similar juxtaposition. Will is once again comforting Mike, who is again, struggling. The purpose of this part of season four isn’t just to develop Mike and Will’s relationship, and fix unresolved problems from the previous season. It’s also to show how their roles are swapped. 

And the most important thing we see in these conversations, is that Mike needs this reassurance from Will, because something is wrong. Whether that be personal, or personal and supernatural, is yet to be seen. But we can be pretty sure that somethings going on with him. 

Mike’s again is our focus. What’s interesting is how Will and Jonathan are on either side of Mike, not really caging him in, but rather in slightly protective stance. (Mike’s left hand is the one we see covered in dirt in this shot. More danger signs surrounding Mike.)

When Mike finds the clue, he looks to Will and Jonathan on either side of him. In season one, Mike was in a similar position as Joyce- meaning that there were a lot of people that told him he was wrong when he was actually right. Being worried about Will, thinking Will’s in danger, knowing Will is alive- all of these were things we saw Mike say to people and they shut him down. Like how Joyce was continually shut down when she was sure Will was alive. 

He looks at Jonathan and Will for reassurance that he’s right. If he was sure and confidant in himself, it would have made more sense for him to jump into action immediately. But he doesn’t. (Yellow car behind Mike, blue van beside Will.)

When they call the number, we see Jonathan and Will again in supportive positions. But not necessarily taking a stance that shows they are confidant in Mike’s theory. 

Then Mike passes the phone to Will, because he needs him to hear it too. Will’s hand over Mike’s makes more sense as a way of subtly comforting him. Saying that Will’s with him, but also showing further development in Mike and Will’s relationship this season. 

After this happens, and the phone gets passed over to Jonathan, Will’s in the center of the frame. There’s a clear divide between Will and Jonathan, and Mike. This could be showing a couple different things. One being that Mike feels similar to how Joyce (and himself) felt in season one, being doubted while being right. And how he’s set a part from Mike and Will. Or it could be going the forced conformity box and foreshadowing Mike’s monologue and how Mike’s putting himself in a box. Or it could be saying something about how Mike called Will, but the calls didn’t go through- creating a rift/divide in their relationship. 

From the composition of these shots however, it’s probably showing Mike being set a part from Will and Jonathan and needing to convince them he’s not crazy. 

But it’s also showing again that Will is Mike’s light and his music. But also the way that Mike’s positioned in center frame, and is looking over his shoulder could be another sign of danger. Mike’s almost entirely in the dark in these shots, at least the close up ones. But Jonathan and Will are allowed to have light fall on them. Again, Mike’s in shadow, and has an indicator of something not being right. It’s a choice to not have everyone’s faces clear in reacting to Will. That choice including Mike looking over his shoulder, might be saying that Mike’s on edge for other reasons as well. 

Once again we see Mike in between Will and Jonathan. He’s in the center again and Will’s in the light again- and what this seems to be saying is that we’re looking at Mike, and Jonathan and Will know somethings up too. 

They keep being set up like this at Suzie’s, at least for the first part of it. Mike’s on edge the entire time he’s here, but the rest of them are slightly less tense. (Argyle’s in front of the bookshelf, and closest to the space poster. Further pushing the idea that he’s the wise fool, meaning that what he says might not always make sense, but have meaning from an audience perspective.)

When they’re lying to Suzie, and Mike has his arms crossed, he looks to Will quite a lot. These are the most notable/emphasized times, but what it shows is that Mike’s looking to Will to back him up. And it’s showing us that it’s very noticeable to other people when Mike does look for Will. 

Also there’s a lot going on in Suzie’s room. Will’s put directly in front of a blue arrow pointing at Mike. And Mike’s in front of a bulletin board with letters tact to it. In the first shot, there’s a heart on Suzie’s desk on Mike’s side, and the arrow behind Will’s head on Will’s side. Both Mike and Will are placed near and/or in front of lights in this shot. This might be supporting Mike’s shirt pocket arrow representing the direction of his heart. Especially since it is pointing to Will in that shot. This is one of the first times that Mike’s shirt pocket is allowed to point to Will in Suzie’s house too. 

Even in this shot, Will and Jonathan manage to be on either side of Mike. Mike’s shirt pocket is pointing to the light, and the curtains. This is one of the rare times Will is in the dark while Mike’s in the light. But this lighting is similar to the harsh white light cast on Vecna’s victims, rather than the romantic lighting on Will. Mike’s also been positioned in front of a painting that’s either of water, or sand or something weird and important. If it is water than that’s another sign of danger for Mike. But either way, the one we see panicking the most in this shot is Mike. 

Still can’t really tell what it is, but it appears to be water. 

Anyways, then they end up in Suzie’s dad’s office. Mike and Will are in front of  two windows, and Mike’s shirt pocket is pointing to Will. Jonathan deviates from the bordering Mike thing him and Will have been doing, but Will sticks close to Mike. 

The hand touch that we don’t really see, but definitely happens, has a different meaning within the context of Will trying to comfort Mike. It’s similar to the pinkie boop in season two between Mike and Will. They’re in a situation where doing anything else might not be okay. Mike holding Will’s hand in that scene wasn’t safe, not like it was in Will’s room. 

I think the same thing is happening here. These two shots of Mike (and Will) are before and after that shift. Mike looks visibly more relaxed. So this seems to be less of a accidental hand touch, and more of a subtle comforting gesture in an unsafe environment. 

Then they’re all out of there, and Mike and Will are sticking close to each other. What Will’s been doing in season four is comforting Mike the same way that Mike did in season two. But with Mike there’s the added layer of paralleling Joyce and her anxiety. Which is mentioned by Will, and has a pretty good chance of relating to Mike as well. 

The van scene is the exact same thing- just with more direction. Mike’s spiraling and Will tries to fix it, even though it hurts him to do so. In season two, it hurt Mike to tell them to sedate Will. And he was in pain when they were trying to get through to Will in the shed. It’s not unequal. It’s just different. 

When they can’t get El a flight, Will bumps his arm into Mike’s. Everything Will’s doing is in response to Mike starting to panic. And it works, because it’s Will. In the same way that Mike was allowed to take care of Will in season two, when Dustin and Lucas weren’t. 

And Mike’s letting Will be the person to reassure him that everything's okay. He’s actively looking to him, and Will’s answering. 

[bylertruth3r]

season 1: Troy said homophobic things about Will to Mike's face because he suspected they were about Mike too, Mike literally pushed a bully to the floor because he was being homophobic to Will, the first thing he said when he first saw El was "that's not Will" and he wanted to send her back at first but changed his mind when he realized she knew where Will was, when Mike was with the party they used the more platonic lyrics of "Heroes" while when Mike was alone they used the romantic one while he was hugging his mom and thinking about Will and when they used this song again in s3 they didn't use these lyrics, they're reserved to byler, maybe they'll use this song again for their first kiss in s5, Karen subtly telling Mike she knows Mike is gay and likes Will

season 2: Mike starts all the byler interactions, really touchy with Will, really protective of Will and called him and literally ran to Will's house after school because he was worried about him, he pushed Dustin's hand away from Will because he wanted to be the one to take care of Will, crazy together which parallels the "only love makes you that crazy" Jancy scene, asking Will to be his friend was the best thing he's ever done, he was literally crying, that's when he realized he likes Will which is why he pushed Will into dancing with that girl and regretted it a second later, he hates being recorded but didn't complain when Will was recording him, he only smiles in pics with Will

season 3: he was avoiding Will to get over him and during the scene of El and Mike kissing they played a song about falling in love with a friend while you're already dating someone else, also the scene of him not kissing El back and keeping his eyes open was his gay awakening (and the song playing in the background was used during Robin's coming out) and it's the season where he realized he's in love with Will, said "it's not my fault you don't like girls" to Will while not knowing Will was gay so he was projecting on Will and lying to himself, literally biked across town to apologize to Will, hugged Will twice or for a really long time in the last episode and buried his face into Will's neck, he was acting like he didn't like dnd and trying to be "normal" and someone he's not

season 4: joined a dnd club, he had a crush on Eddie and got influenced by him, the gay tension with Will was obvious and the hug at the airport was really awkward because of Mike, he gets jealous because he thinks Will's painting was for Angela and that Will liked her (he doesn't know Will is gay), he checked out Angela's boyfriend, he got mad about Will not paying attention to him and took Will's words romantically even thought Will meant it platonically and felt the need to clarify that they're friends, gay flirting in Jonathan's room with Will, he basically said "my friends are great but they're not you" to Will, literally nodded and related to Will talking about being gay and being afraid of people not liking the truth, a lot of lip staring and breath catching and gasping for air in the van, he realized Will loves him back and was really relieved and happy about it, his POV of Will is literally him being bathed in sunlight, he lied during the monologue when he said he started loving El in the woods because the first thing he said when he first saw her was "that's not Will" and he wanted to send her back at first but changed his mind when he realized she knew where Will was, gay shoulder touch

season 5 (according to leaks and interviews) : he's wearing Will's shoes, El is gonna break up with him, he's gonna be the leader of the party again and he's gonna listen to what Will told him in the van, he's gonna do what he wants and he won't have to do things just because people expect them from him, Will is gonna kiss his forehead, he's gonna be really protective of Will and he's gonna bond with Robin about his fear of Will being in danger, he's gonna kiss Will

[alcalystrasz]

(This has been said a lot but idc)

He loses his bestfriend, he's destroyed and he cries because he thinks he's dead and he's going to blame himself because he'll think it's his fault. The song in the background is Heroes. And the lyrics, at this precise moment are:

"And we kissed, as though nothing could fall. And the shame, [changing to Joyce and Jonathan] the shame was on the other side."

Which is a clear queer coding. That means that Mike and Will kissed (= spent time together, very close) as though nothing could fall (= nothing could go wrong), and the shame (= of being gay) was on the other side (= the Upside Down, where Will is. Because he's the obvious gay one). And it changed to Joyce and Jonathan because they're Will's family.

And now, let's skip to Season 3:

This hug, from end of season 3 is a clear parallel of the first one we saw on season 1. His face isn't obviously the same. In season 1, we can see he's sad, crying and he hugs his mom desperately. But season 3, shows a confused, emotionless Mike who hugs his mother like he's in shock. Why's that? Well...

The parallel is to show Mike's feelings. In the end of season 3, when El kisses Mike, his eyes are wide open, he doesn't move and when she's done and leaves he doesn't move, instead he looks on the side with a super confused and shocked face. And in the original script (sorry couldn't find it), we saw that Mike's reaction was like this because it was written:

What is wrong with me?

So it was meant for him to be that way (and btw Finn played it well). And then, when Hopper reads his letter to El, we can hear his voice with scenes showing up. And when he says:

"And if I'm being really honest, I don't want things to change."

Mike looks back at Will's house before leaving with his bike.

This is a lowkey queer coding. Change is the liking boys realization from Mike's side. And why Hopper says "I don't want things to change" ? Because the change means the behavior change for Mike. He'll feel like a mistake, just like Will, he'll feel different, incapable of liking a girl like every other boys his age...

So what I'm trying to say is. That these two scenes are parallels to show Mike's improvement and changement over the seasons. Season 1 he was sad because of the loss of his bestfriend. But why would we only see Mike's POV and not Dustin's or Lucas' ? They also cared about Will. No, we only see Mike's because he's Will's love interest. And in Season 3 we see a total confused Mike hugging his mother, trying to understand what happened. Because what happened is that he understood, he finally admitted he was in love with Will. Why's that? Well, first he's confused by El's I love you, and kiss. Then he looks back at Will's house, knowing he just left. And finally he hugs his mom trying to figure out what's wrong with him. Cause he thinks there's something wrong with him, as seen in the script (try to find it yourself, cause I couldn't. But I remember sawing it on Twitter 'X' !). And it's even more possible because Mike's introduction in season 4, has a lot of queer coding. I'll try to list them all.

Rainbows on the letter (= signifies lgbtq+), One Way arrow pointing to an open closet (= one way arrow -> "only possible thing/explanation", open closet -> he's out to himself), Poster with a naked Dragon (= just like Steve or Billy, straight boys, have, almost naked women, on their walls, Mike has almost naked character, men and animals from dnd), poster from a movie with an almost naked man (= to understand he likes them naked, just a gay thing I guess ;-;). For this last point, yes there's also a woman almost naked, however since the movie is about men, being way superior to women (that's the movie don't blame me, and I can't remember its name, sorry), I'm not sure he'd really want to have this woman in particular in his room.

Also there's one of Will's binder under his bed, the same one where there are tons of his drawings and finally, I'd like to end up with Mike literally destroying El's letter when Nancy tells him he's late (who does that?). So yeah that's all I could find, there's probably more, which needs more attention and analysis but I did the minimum let's say.

So all of this, to say that season 1 and 3 hugs were parallels of Mike's feelings, and that the season 3's is more possible when we notice the character introduction of Mike in season 4. So yeah, he really had a Gay realization over there!

[erikiara80]

Becky says that the baby wasn't breathing, and I think that's the truth. One of the kids stopped breathing and maybe even died in the past, before a wrinkle in time (mothergate?) changed everything.

There are many hints throughout the show

Breathe!

When Heather is taken by the Mind Flayer, it's like she's drowning

"Mom! I can't breath! I'm suffocating"

"Remember to breathe"

"It's hard to breathe" (Will is behind the visual aid, one of the many times it seems that he "vanishes")

The Rink-o-mania scenes parallel the lab scenes, and they happen on March 22, so this too is connected to Will and Eleven

Imo, Mike's and Argyle's lines in 4x09 are connected to Will saying to Joyce in 3x08 that he's suffocating, and to the scene in S1 when Jonathan checks Lonnie's trunk. The mentions of dogs (like Chester), baggage compartments and suffocating... I think they're hints at what happened to Will in the past.

Another connection to Will: when Eddie says that wearing Michael Myers mask was suffocating. Eddie's uncle says that the evil who killed the Creels is like Michael Myers, and in S2 Max wears that mask the night Will is almost taken by the Mind Flayer.

And I could be wrong, but that looks like a man with a white mask to me

So, yeah, all these mentions of breathing/not breathing, and suffocating are definitely important.