#just writing this out so i can remember how much byler means to me

[conanssummerchild]

now that im getting deep into my community hyperfixtation i dont wanna lose my byler hyperfixtation but just in case i do i wanna express my deep appreciation for byler and the fandom, i'd never felt like a part of anything before but even tho it's gotten toxic at times the byler fandom gave me a place to be silly and myself and it meant everything to someone who always felt alone and different, it gave me a sense of community (no pun intended 😭)

and i mean byler literally saved my life, i was going through one of the worst times of my life the past two years and byler pulled me through it, it was all i had, i cant tell you how many times putting mike wheeler in my situation made me feel better about it, because i imagined that he at least had will byers holding his hand. i also used to promise myself that i wouldnt kill myself until season five came out, and yeah thats not um the best i guess but it was the only thing i felt i still had left to live for

and now ive started to heal, ive found other reasons to live, ive found my irl will byers and though days are still hard as fuck its not like it was before and i know ive made it this far because my own hard work on myself but i still wouldnt have made it to here if i hadnt had something safe to cling to, an anchor in a storm if you will, and for me that was stranger things and byler, so yeah :)

[0daylighthours0]

My Mother's Unbiased Byler + Milkvan Opinions - Viewing ST for the 1st Time!

(UPDATE)

My Mama has now witnessed Stranger Things in its entirety. Her favourite season was the third, her favourite characters Hopper and Joyce, her favourite pairing would be those guys too, and her most disliked pairing? Can only assume.

I wanted to write out her thoughts on the second to last episode previously, as she'd held many, but before I knew it we'd finished the whole show and I was forced to an income of NEW opinions which ruled out my memory of any old ones. Shucks. But boy did this lady have much to say. The only way I can break it down is by providing a sample of quotes she'd delivered, in order, a day after having finished the series.

All are just things she said about milkvan and byler, as they're this post's main focus. There's simply much to say about these relationships too, being so up in the air over where they ought be expected to turn out. These are all direct quotes too (as I typed as she talked, unkown to her) so you'll have to excuse the natural way in which some lines come off as unfocused, being written after real time conversations. Let's get into it:

Ok I really don't know whether she likes Mike very much. She actively disliked the guy earlier on, and now her feelings appear to be more mixed. A lot of her discussion was solely around this guy's actions.

"It's almost like he's [Mike] forcing himself like- ok Hopper he was kind of very passionate and kissing, you know he sort of instantly- with Mike, from being obsessed and spending so much time with her [El], suddenly he starts cooling off more and more and suddenly- they even separated right? I mean yeah that was out of his control but he, but he didn't really seem like he missed her you know it's like he just got on with it."

This point caught me off guard. I don't know how much I agree with my mother on this. It made me realize that during Mike and El's separation, there weren't many quiet Mike moments in which he expressed worry for her, beyond a couple that blend into him simply having breakup concerns. Any time Mike mentions distress for her whilst she's away, his talk evolves into him simply anxious over the state of their relationship. As a group, everyone in our Cali gang clearly wanted to save Eleven, but Mike really should have gotten more heartfelt moments in solitude (that means without Will you suffer bros) in which it is demonstrated to the audience that he really does miss her, as someone who is in love. Her being away shouldn't simply come off as a writing excuse for him to vent to Will. There wasn't enough of that tenderness milkvan desperately needs, and if anything I watched was an attempt then it really wasn't translated well - never trumping everyone else's familial or close frienship-like fret for El, never showcasing his concern to come from a more personal place. I mean how hard is it to have him in her room, staring longingly at a photo of hers, with a background composed of soft music. Then literally leaving it at that. I mean that is it. No Will rushing in there to insist, "you can tell her that thing when you see her k? It'll all work out trust me ight, you're the heart you're the HEART!" que affectionate gazes, constructs a byler scene for no reason I guess .

"I mean how do we know that he missed Will? He articulated it. Why didn't he articulate this the same way to El?"

True. I mean the fact that I can't remember a moment after they find El in which milkvan ask oneanother how they are, and communicate how much they missed eachother, does indeed say something. They shared a hug and touch when they first reunited, which was gladly interrupted by Will. That pineapple + pizza thing was not long enough, or sensitive enough, to be their moment. There was clear bonding, but it didn't breach a level of romance and chemistry nearly decently. It's good that they got at least that, I mean we need to know that these guys are at LEAST really close friends. And then the camera just felt like panning over to Will about to burst into tears in a corner. Like huh? Bruv you've now made it so that milkvan's pizza bit leaves a bad taste in our mouths. If I were a milkvan I'd be furious.

"You know what, I think it's done purposefully to create that sort of cold, distant, confused, you know they wanted to make people say he's [Mike] bisexual. For people to question. They want to get people to think that."

My Mama believes writers intentionally soured milkvan for viewers to "confuse" audiences, build up anticipation, make them question milkvan's relationship and wonder if our main man will spin to Will. I agree. They want that good ol' triangle comeuppance.

"They really are trying to bring that across- so that people start thinking Mike, you know he doesn't love El, he loves Will. They're really trying to, make people think that. Giving them [milkvan] a really nitty gritty relationship."

Yup.

"When you're gay. Coming out like that it's- it's terrifying. You have to be very careful. And Will could, he could tell. You know when someone is attracted to you. I think, things became sort of- sort of complicated. And Will sensed, he could feel that Mike is attracted to him. And that's why he could open up like that. Because you can always tell. You know, you just know, so that's why Will was able to confess these things to him [she sees painting scene as a confession, whether Mike realized it or not, and so do I]."

Well damn Mama. And there you have it folks. My.. I'm not gonna call her the h word but.. my- notabigfanofgaythingsandwouldbehappytopretendtheydon'texist mother, perceives Mike as a homosexual kid, and just that. Well bloomin heck that's all the confirmation I need.

I didn't expect this as a turnout, I mean so particularly. My Mama actually didn't like byler - I think. Well. Bloomin heck. She actually enjoyed Vickie x Robin, and this shocked me to my core. I don't know whether this is simply due to her being a fan of Vickie's actress (recognizing her from Anne With an 'E'), but I do know that my mother has a bias in gay relationships and sees ones involving females as more "pure" than that of two males. So her language when describing Will has changed since her realization that he loves Mike for sure (which became undeniable in the van scene). She describes him as being 'obsessed' with Mike, and says writers really wanted to get that obsession across. I agree with Will having been one note during season 4, him hopefully having more time to shine in the approaching season, but I thoroughly disagree with him coming off as obsessive. I suppose our camera man displayed the guy's little glances at Mike so often that my Mama felt it was overdone, and unable to be ignored. I also think she's just avoiding use of the word 'love' when describing anything homosexual.

She still doesn't think Mike demonstrates how much he loves El enough to leave no room for debate. According to her, his moments with her seem surface level. Just as a reminder she does not know my thoughts. She watched that entire 'I love you' thing and still isn't secure in any genuineness of the guy. I believe she supposes that we're intended to acknowledge milkvan's romance, but also probe it.

I now wonder whether my Mama was good enough representation for the average audience, because she actually does own a bias - this being that she usually actively dislikes gay things. So I puzzle over whether her brain overanalyzed any of the boys' highlights, wanting to "expose" their homo intentions. At first things were up in the air, but it became clear that Mike did not pass her gaydar, he was simply too intimate with Will to make that pass. And this wasn't the case in other seasons, she never questioned their friendship til now. She also hasn't acknowledged any supposedly queer relationships besides rickie (vobin?) and byler, meaning that other fan favourites such as elmax, steddie, ronance and such else didn't stand out as gay to her. This doesn't signify those other relationships to not have a chance, I'm elmax's personal cheersquad, it's plainly clear that my mother didn't have a tendency to point at every same sex relationship and yell suspicious. Byler was purely undeniable. You can thank Will's love being canoned for this, otherwise noone would have a need to read into Mike.

I don't know whether she supposes byler to have a chance moreso than the milk in the van, even with Mike's ambiguity. It would seem that as of right now her guess is that watchers are intended to second guess both relationships in order to build up interest. However, she doesn't know how unlikely Will's love life is to turn out negatively seeing as those damn writers manipulated crowds into consistently sympathizing for him. Dunno about the rest of you but that sounds like good news to me.

I have no idea how to close this analysis. Is it an analysis? There's much more I want to say, much more she said, but I fear this to be too jam-packed and aimless as is. I'm writing a third part to my most recent milkthevan failing relationship deep dive, and that'll possibly consist of thoughts I wish to input after gathering so much data from my mother.

[mlchaelwheeler]

Reading bylers' theories are interesting and all but i really do not think mike understood that those were will's feelings. i think he legit thinks el made will paint a drawing for him, he prob thinks it was gonna be a surprise for him before el left, and i legit think he believed in will's words at the van because he doesnt have any reason to believe that Will would lie to him. People say that mike should have known that the painting was from Will not El bc El mentioned it in her letter that she didnt know who the painting was for. And we canonically know that El straight up lied to Mike all those months on her letters, so Mike actually has a reason to believe that El lied about the painting thing too just to keep it as a secret surprise or something. That's just me though bc that's how I read the narrative and the purpose was to make Mike believe in Will's lie in the first place.

ok listen. mike is smart. remember s1? s2? s3? the pen in s4? he is always figuring things out that majorly benefit the group. i really don't like the trend in the fandom where people believe mike is stupid. sure, it's fun to joke that he has nothing but rocks in his brain, but let's take a step back and be real. he's struggling with his sexuality while growing up in a conservative household/town while also battling life-threatening monsters/situations on a yearly basis. of course he's not on top of every single thing emotionally-wise. however, he still is very smart. one of the smartest characters on the show imo.

anyways, back on topic: the van scene. yes, mike has no reason to think will's lying to him. however, mike knows el doesn't know anything about dnd. he knows el's been lying to him left and right. is will's painting for a girl? nope. if el was lying about that, then she clearly doesn't know who the painting's really for. since mike arrived in cali, he was hoping that painting was for him. he loves receiving presents and will knows that. (i'm going to write a more detailed analysis about this scene soon so stay tuned). so of course he was hoping the painting was will's gift to him.

the way mike was looking at will in the van though? that boy is in love.

that is not the look of someone who's hearing their "girlfriend's" feelings come out of their best friend's mouth. this is the look of someone in love with the best friend. trust me. has mike ever looked at el with that level of love?? (a rhetorical question because we all know the answer to that). also, i don't have the gif (nor do i know how to make one), but in that scene above ^ mike looks at the painting then looks at will. if he would've kept looking at the painting, sure, i might've believed he actually believed el commissioned it. yet he looks back at will. he's clearly thinking it's actually from will!

later on in sbp, mike still believes the painting is from will. he still desperately want to believe that will does feel that way about him. so he jokes around with el, because he's happy she's back and safe. yet do they get a meaningful conversation? nope. they're interrupted before they can say anything substantial to each other.

mike goes into the monologue scene believing that will loves him. so when suddenly will is pushing him to confess his love for el, mike's confused. he doesn't understand, did he misinterpret everything? maybe will really was saying how el felt? whatever the case, mike has no time to react. el is dying. he has no choice. he tells el he loves her. he tells her so much, all of it lies, but it's what she wants to hear. what he thinks she wants to hear. but it's not enough. (because it's a lie). mike doesn't mean it! of course he loves el, but he loves her like he loves the rest of the party. there's nothing romantic there.

so two days later, when will refuses to sit next to mike on the ride back to hawkins and el ignores mike in the cabin, mike feels utterly alone. maybe nobody loves him. but he wants to feel needed, and he knows he loves will, so he stays by his side for the rest of the season. he doesn't try to go talk to el. instead, he has another heart to heart with will where he convinces him that even though vecna pretty much just killed max, mike won't let him touch will. they'll figure this out together. because even if will doesn't love mike, mike does love will. and he's not losing him ever again.

[erikiara80]

favorite/least favorite Byler and M!leven scenes?

Ciao, anon. Thanks for the ask.

If you follow my blog I hope you know that I'm not a fan of Mike and El as a couple. I like a few scenes, but I don't think their relationship is good for them or that they're actually in love.

Ok, if you're still reading, let me explain.

I never found them cute, not even in S1. When I watched it I didn't understand why the writers were writing such a good story set in the 80s, but with El and Mike it felt like I was actually watching an 80s show with the typical story, boy and girl kiss/end up together because... boy and girl must date. It felt wrong to me. It wasn't what ST was about. Now I understand that I was supposed to feel that way.

That being said, El and Mike are beautiful, complex characters, so these are the scenes I like.

1. El would (understand). Ok, not saying this is a Mlv scene, but Mike can be vulnerable with Will and say how he really feels. And I love what he says about El. He's right. She would understand. The funny thing, is that I think she would (and will) understand Will much better than how she understands Mike.

2. I feel for them here. El's been isolated for so long, and Mike misses her and feels guilty for what happened to her. Interestingly, Castle Byers is playing here...

3. From one look you can see the joy, the relief and all the pain this kid must've felt. Amazing (one of Finn's best performances)

4. If I remember correctly, this was actually Millie being exhausted, not El, and Finn helped her. But it's in the show, and I love it.

This s pretty much it.

My least favorite mlvn scene: 3x01. How they left their friends on Weathertop, and them making out and laughing at Hopper's face. Lol, those little shits.

With Byler, it's the opposite. There's only one scene I don't like. The dnd campaign in S3. I know it's important and even foreshadowing of events in S5, but like the rain fight it reminded me of something that happened to me. That's all I'm going to say.

Now, my favorite Byler scenes...

1. Probably my favorite scene of the show, imo one of the best and also Finn's best perfomance. The shed scene is such a pivotal moment, when we learn, along with Will I'm sure, that asking him to be his friend was the best thing Mike has ever done. It all started with Will and Mike. Their bond is special, and it's forever. They were the ones who started the first party and they will start a new one together.

2. You can feel how much they need each other and want to be close again. A precious moment that almost made me cry.

3. He's quiet today. Four words that mean so much. The fact that Lucas says He's always quiet informs us that Will and Mike's relationship is different. That Mike knows Will better that the rest of the party and that Will opens up to him. And Mike does the same, as we see in the Crazy together scene.

4. Mike's head on Will's heart. Adorable

5. Another little moment that is so important. Just a Not possible, a flirty look and Mike's smile. They don't need anything else. Steve would've felt it, the electricity.

6. Speaking of Mike's smiles, the ones in the van are something beautiful

7. Crazy together. What else can I say?

8. I love Will's sweet voice here: "It was you guys who saved me. It was you guys." Mike tries to hide a smile (he's so happy that Will is saying that he helped save him) Then Will's flirty: It always is, isn't it?" And Mike melts. It was too much for him.

Honorable mention:

And this (Gif credits to Celebslive)

[blognarrymybabes]

As I have said before. I am done. I can’t. I can’t watch it and I am not going to even watch season 4. It’s too heartbreaking and I have no fucking hopes for season 5. I just watched Will and Mike’s clip in the van , the Mike el forehead touch and Mike monologue and I can’t believe they can hate a character to this degree.

I feel like they had too many ideas and instead of keeping it simple and core to the main characters they tried to do too many different things from different references (remember the white board with all movie names they took their so called inspiration from) that it turned into a big flop.

To have an unrequited love is fine

To have an unrequited gay love is also fine

But in this situation with everything that we have seen so far from season 1

IT IS NOT FINE

The whole thing doesn’t make sense. Mike wheeler doesn’t make sense. His character went from the leader, the protector, the person who could tell Will was alive by just his breathing, the person who knew his mood or if he was okay is now a prop for Eleven, he didn’t even questioned why Will is crying, didn’t even noticed ???? And actually smiled when Will said El needs you. I can’t !!!! Mike’s character couldn’t be more degressed they made him into a pathetic asshole who is like a jerk to his best friend of 10 years apparently for no reason and the only problem he has is telling eleven I love you back

The whole Eleven’s development till Season 4 Vol1 flushed down the drain by getting back together with Mike because of his love for her.

And I can’t even formulate about Will, the once Main Character reduced to a gay pining selfless boy who only touches his neck when he senses vecna. He has been through so much so so much and he thinks he is a mistake 💔

This all is just lazy ass writing trying to keep your audience (mileven shippers) happy. Everything boiling down to that lousy, zero genuine Mike monologue and they called that his best acting !

They used Will’s feelings to push Mike and Eleven together. They treated Will’s character and his feelings like shit. He opened his entire heart to Mike ! Told him he is the heart of the group all so that Mike can tell Eleven I love you. I hate this. They treated his character like shit, his feelings were like device to prove mileven is endgame. It already was !!!! They both are dating for two seasons now. They made him so miserable.

And I with my own two eyes saw the swing set in vol1 I was not tripping. I mean how that painting changed

I give up. I got way too attached. My mistake.

I have never been queerbaited before this was my first time and I can’t handle it tbh.

This is homophobic and queerbaiting to the next level

I honestly believed Byler was real. Will deserves so much, I can see that he is going to sacrifice in the future. He basically did that now in season 4 for Mike to be with El

I learnt my lesson the hardest way possible

And yes it’s queerbaiting !!!

I mean the actors are telling one thing in the interviews and series is completely different

Finn was like “Mike is trying to be normal and is in to new things “ and Mike’s entire I love you monologue to Eleven was fucking forced ! So forced!

Duffers said “ he was given some hard hitting stuff. His best acting” wtf

Duffers said “the painting is important they had several drafts.” In vol1 i could see the swing set with my own two bloody eyes but it is not swing set it is something else”

Duffers said “Will’s sexuality will be addressed” I am like where?

Welcome to American media. Here they show that they're inclusive but no our main cast is obviously CIS het people. Cuz omg are you kidding me?

This morning Netflix crashed so they got the money alright

I don’t have it in me to watch stranger things anymore I think I know where they are going with this.

I am hoping and I will happy if Will turns out to be a villain

I am going to be in Byler land reading fics and just whatever happened today didn’t happened

And for the record I am straight, I just fell in love with Will’s character and then realized Byler while watching. And I have queer friends and people in my family who do think the same thing and ship Byler. [ I had made a post about how I started shipping Byler. I was hesitant to put it out. But if you’re interested in reading I will upload it ]

So no you guys here are not delusional at all. If I could see it, anyone can. It’s common sense and following the story it doesn’t have to be some kind of lens.

Either Noah and Finn are crushing over each other or Duffers are coward and chickened out. If they did, they are stupid enough to not realize the gold mine they were sitting on.

That’s it for my rant.

[cosmicbrowniefan]

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE I beg of you for the hurtiest most comfortiest hurt/comfort stranger things headcanons you can spawn from your genius brain PLEASE (your writing gives me life thank you so much)

OMG OK I GOT YOU!! so i’m just gonna splurge my brain here and it might be a little chaotic but that’s just how my thoughts are working rn. gonna focus mainly on our byler boys in pain and comforting each other but lmk if there’s anyone else you want to see focused on

so i think that the party definitely loves going to theme parks

and mike will go on rides with everyone else but no one knows that he actually HATES roller coasters

well, no one except will

so mike is going around with them all day going on roller coasters and shit and trying his best to hide all of his anxiety and no one really sees how off he’s acting but will’s radar is very much intact

on the way home mike is being super quiet because he’s trying to calm down from a super anxiety-inducing day and he doesn’t want anyone to know

(they are in lucas’s minivan btw, lucas and max are up front, dustin and max in the middle, and will and mike in the back)

will knows just how to calm mike down without being super obvious, though

he reaches over and grabs mike’s hand and squeezes it a certain number of times (each number of times means different things: 1 for yes, 2 for no, 3 for i love you, 3 and a thumb tap for are you okay?, etc.)

and mike responds with squeezes, and gives will a small smile because will always knows how to ground him back to reality

and when they go home they both hang out at mike’s house and will just holds his boy and they sit in a comfortable silence and watch one of mike’s comfort movies

and will gives him forehead kisses and just <3333333

perfect way to make mike feel better

another headcanon!! will getting his wisdom teeth out!

so will gets his appointment to get his wisdom teeth out when he’s about 16

and will hasn’t come out to his family or the majority of his friends yet, he’s only come out to mike at this point (who also came out to him and then they started secretly dating and yadda yadda yadda you know the bit)

but anyway. will gets this appointment scheduled and he’s super quiet the whole way home but the second he gets in his house he goes straight to his room and just. breaks down

he’s not scared for the surgery but he does have that fear that he’s going to come out while under the anesthesia 

well mike comes over for dinner that night and joyce tells him that will is in his room and he walks in to see will just sobbing into his pillow

so mike quickly goes over to his side and holds him from behind (because will doesn’t like people looking at him while he’s crying)

and after a few minutes will calms down a bit and slowly tells mike what’s bothering him

which. mike completely understands the fear

so mike rubs will’s hand and tells him that, although it’s a scary thought, you’re more in control of your words than you think, you just don’t remember it much

and mike ends up messaging joyce and offering to take will home after the surgery and take care of him so she doesn’t have to miss a day of work, which joyce graciously accepts and tells him to call her if the two need anything

and hearing this news INSTANTLY puts will at ease

flash forward to the surgery

without the anxiety, will is just about the flirtiest loopy person ever on anesthesia 

mike has to make will sit in the back seat because will kept trying to lean over and kiss him while he was in the passenger seat

but mike and will cuddle after the surgery and everything is ok <3

and let me just throw in a brief max cameo bc i am OBSESSED with this idea

i am a huge believer that mike (despite his scrawniness) can and will physically fight anyone who dares to mess with his friends. however, in steve season one fashion, he tends to lose these fights. one day, mike is in the lunchroom and one of the basketball idiots starts bullying eddie and calling him slurs. well, one thing leads to another, and mike ends up with a black eye.

this might be hard to believe, but MAX COMFORTS HIM!! those two get on each other’s nerves a lot, but max is actually the best listener and comforter in the world. after the fight, mike is really quiet and closed off and kind of pissed at the world and just shuts himself in his room. no one’s quite sure of the best way to help him, so max heads into his room and just kinda sits on the floor. mike is on his bed and barely looks over before asking what she was doing and she just said “sitting”. and the two of them go into a comfy silence and after a few minutes mike starts talking about the fight and how upset and embarrassed he feels and max just quietly listens, which is just what mike needs. bonus: after a little while, mike sits up and pats the bed for max to come over and sit, so she does. and she brought a little makeup case into his room and fixes up his black eyes and gives him some cute eyeliner at the same time <3 mike is very thankful for her

thank you for the ask!! i'm so glad you enjoy my writing omg, i really hope this is what you were looking for! keep the asks coming!! i love answering these :)

[bylertruther]

You have like single-handedly brought me back into byler. I spent so much time hating it because I just didn’t really like season 3 I was super disappointed by it and then everyone constantly portrayed mike as this like bad boy with mean intentions and I was done with it but you have way better character analysis that I personally think aligns more with how the suffer brothers are actually writing.

I still sometimes like to look at explorations of them not getting together or growing apart because I like angst and hurt/comfort but you’ve brought me back and it’s honestly way more fun :)

ahhhh, thank you! that makes me so happy tht i was able to bring you back hehe. :')

season three was whiplash for A LOT of people, myself included. i remember my outrage had always been rooted in a sense of confusion, because if you're just watching the show in a superficial manner like most casual viewers do, then it's so easy to just write it off as a really weird, jarring, and out of character narrative decision that came out of nowhere and way too late in the game. it doesn't help at all that they're all extremely tight-lipped about the plots in the show, including obvious ones like will's sexuality, and that season three was more show than tell unlike previous seasons.

it's only when you pause and start to actually consider and take in everything as a whole that you go "oh, okay. i get it now." and those interpretations are much more cohesive with the heart of stranger things and the journeys and beliefs of all of these characters involved than "oh they suddenly made mike a jackass and removed all depth and don't give a single shit about him or will and el anymore lol."

and that's not even going into how that lazy idea ignores things like basic storytelling, set design, costuming, cinematography, the soundtrack, editing, things that the duffers themselves have said, and more.

stranger things touches on a lot of heavy things and does have depth. people think because it's funny, fun, colorful, and has a lot of cgi, that it's a show on par with something on the cw, but it really isn't. every character has their moment and every character is on their own distinct path. it's all right there in the plain text of the show, but alas... the wait time between seasons and sheer volume of material can be overwhelming for most. that, and media literacy is in the pits, so. sigh.

[perexcri]

That fic was !!! Wordsmith Perexcri strikes again because you always seem to know how to weave them!!!

(This is Fannon btw)

The imagery of Never Have I Ever on the eve of the Apocalypse—it’s like. I can’t even explain why I think it’s so cool—it’s sort of like almost an anachronism? but instead of something modern in a historical setting, it’s something so so normal when nothing in the world is normal. Idk I just woke up and I have a cold so idk if that made any sense, just know that I enjoy it.

Also, ‘All he knows is, each night, when Will rolls over to the edge of the bed they share and Mike’s eyes bore in to his bedroom wall, they always snag against a bloody, crimson heart on a shield, and he thinks he’d been stupid to ever believe anybody else could know him like Will does.’ BEAUTIFUL SO SO MUCH I am going to have this tattooed on the inside of my eyelids so I can look at it forever.

I hope you are doing very well!

(,,,I told my friends I would try to do this off anon for Once, bc I want to be your friend but,,,,I’m a coward☺️)

Thank you for being such a lovely writer!

!! hello fannon!! i hope you recover from your cold soon!! i am sending you a cup of warm soup to ward the illness away~

(this one got long so i'm gonna put the rest under the cut!!)

i'm so glad you liked it!! honestly i think this fic has become my fav i've written this year, so it brings me joy to see others liking it as well :D

what you're saying makes total sense!! i love when the mundane is contrasted with the horrific, like two teenagers playing never have i ever when they both think they're gonna die the next day. i always find little human moments like that impact me more than, like, an extended action sequence

i didn't explicitly use it as inspiration for this fic, but i do think i drew a little from buffy the vampire slayer (like with most apocalypse byler stuff i've written lol) for that contrast!! that show does such a good job of contrasting the mundane and quiet with the loud and horrific. i did think a little about the very last episode of buffy on the night before the big final battle, and there's this very quiet shot of buffy and spike sharing a bed in her basement,,,that's kinda the vibe i was going for, and i felt happy with how it came out in the actual story :D

AHHHH i love when people point out lines they like!! that's one of my favorites from this one - i remember writing it last night and kinda staring at my screen for a second like "oh. okay. don't know where that came from but i guess we'll roll with it" lol

FANNONNNNNN please please please don't feel like you have to keep using anon!! i would love to be your friend!! honestly a big reason why i post fics or do stuff on tumblr is because i want to talk with other people who are suffering from the same brainrot as me!! i've literally had full-blown conversations in the comments on some of my fics because i've really enjoyed getting to talk to other people (even though my social anxiety makes it very hard sometimes to talk but i'm being so brave about it). and honestly, i think fandom stuff is supposed to feel more like a communal thing?? idk i love responding to comments or getting asks or getting your messages anytime i post something because it makes it feel like i'm interacting with other people who like similar things as me, rather than me just like,,,mindlessly pushing stuff out into the void and never hearing anything back, or something like that. idk if that makes sense, but tl;dr: i would love to be your friend!! (but if you are too anxious about it i totally understand because, again, re: social anxiety)

thank you once again for stopping by fannon!! your words always mean a lot to me, and i hope you get to feeling better soon!! :] 💜💜💜

[rosesradio]

(something i’ve had in my drafts for a while but never posted--a piece of my heart, from me to you ♥)

the letter--a byler drabble

Dear Mike,

They are laying in the clearing in the woods when Mike admits to it. Their fingers barely brushing, barely testing this new sparking chemistry. They were talking about Hawkins, and Lenora, and the move, all of which didn’t matter now that the war was over.

Johnathan put my sketchbook in the moving van, which sucks, because I was hoping to sketch out some landscapes on the road. He says I can sketch in my notebook, but that’s not the same. This is for writing. But for now, I’ll use it to talk to you on my trip. Because I miss you already.

“Do you remember that latter I sent you?” A grin was just starting to form on Will’s face. “I wrote just about everything. What I saw on the road, what music we listened to...it must have been, like, six pages, right?”

El found my old etch-a-sketch and says I can draw on that, but it’s definitely not the same. She seems to be having a fun time with it, though.

It was eight, Will remembered. And it was beyond embarrassing, but Will was never ashamed, not around Mike. Mike always liked hearing what he had to say...and even in periods where he didn’t listen, he always came around.

Mom is nervous about getting the directions wrong, but she’s still insistent on taking us to all these tourist locations on the way. I’m not sure how to feel about the world’s largest ball of yarn, but I know she just wants to make this fun.

“Oh, yeah, must’ve been,” Mike laughed softly. “It was...great...” But there was an odd sort of tone to his voice. The kind he used with his parents, or teachers, or El. The kind when he was lying.

It would be more fun with you here, though.

Will glanced over at him, frowning. “What? Do you not...remember that? You said you kept my art pieces, so I just thought...”

But not to worry. I’ll find my sketchbook and draw some landscapes for you, maybe paint them, too, and it’ll be like you’re right here with me.

“Yeah,” Mike nodded absentmindedly. “I mean, I do, it’s just...” he shrugged, unable to look Will in the eye...until he did. “Will, I was in a really bad place, when you moved.”

With us. El clearly misses you, too.

“Yeah?” Will’s heart started to speed up in his chest, as if he’d done something wrong. “I know...I missed you, too...a lot...”

She says it’s too soon to write to you. But if you’re not right here for me to pester, I want to pester you now, with every thought that pops into my head.

Mike nodded again. “I mean, I was trying to keep things...normal. Or what I thought was normal. And that letter...there was just so much there, and even though you didn’t say it, it was so obvious how you felt. Especially next to El’s letter...I kept comparing them, and I got frustrated, and...” Mike’s voice cracked, his eyes watering. “Will, I burned your letter. All of it.”

I know you’d rather have a letter from her, but if I describe what she’s doing and saying, that’d be good, too, right? And maybe while we’re trapped in the car, I can try to get her to make a DND character, and̷ ̸t̸he̷n̴ ̶w̷e̴ ̷ca̷n̸ ̷

“Oh,” is the first thing Will says, before he even registered it. And it’s so stupid, but Will thought that for the most part that they wouldn’t have problems anymore. They were sort-of dating now, had told the people they wanted to tell, and it was all fine. Yes, it wasn’t perfect, but Will thought that any other problems would take the back seat until the future. He didn’t think there were anymore problems to unpack.

“I’m sorry,” Mike starts, and he lists off a mirid of excuses, but his voice sounds muffled to Will’s ears. He thinks about everything he said, the entire eight-page description of the move, up in smoke. Literally. He can’t even remember all of the probably foolish things he said; he was just giddy thinking about Mike reading everything, liking everything, he had to say.

But he burned it. He tried to keep things normal, so he burned it. Looking at him now, Mike seemed sorry. Will’s eyes stung, threatening tears. He felt his breath, heavy and constricted in his chest.

He burned it. All of Will’s words, as if it didn’t matter. Even if it mattered too much.

“Yeah,” Will nodded. “Yeah--I get it.”

Even if he didn’t get it--even if he didn’t want to. He tortured himself at the thought--how many times did Mike read it before he burned it? How did he burn it? A careful lighter to the corner, letting flames come in slow and small until they welled up too big to take back?

Or an all-consuming bonfire, the whole stack of words and expressions carefully crafted only to be thrown in, sacrificed in one toss?

Will thought about the embers at the bottom, flickering with warm light. How the edges curled up in a graceful, deadly dance. He thought about his heart down there, mingling with the dirt and ashes where it belonged.

And Mike, who he loved and trusted over all others, the one who was sorry, was the one who put him there.

[mike-el]

I really hope that once season 5 comes out and we get the inevitable ending we all want, the duffers do an interview in which they talk about all the things they didn’t do and explain why they didn’t do them and why they wouldn’t even work (Bylerrrr— amongst other things like certain deaths but mainly—-Byler) so the bylers can stop theorizing (cuz I KNOW even after the show ends and the message is CLEAR they’ll still be theorizing) and if the duffers explaining why certain fan analysis was fucking stupid gonna make them leave the fandom, not like the show or creators anymore and deem it bad then so fucking be it, because I need this fandom to stop being annoying and delusional. You’re welcome and thank you!!!

PS. I know you are like super nice and love to stay in your lane and I LOVE you for that. But you need to understand that I have TWITTER and these bylers are fucking insane they make me feel like I’m losing brain cells no joke, so I know I’m being petty but please let me vent :(. Also they deserve it like please tell me you agree. Like what I’m wishing on them is a potential choice for them to leave the fandom and let us beeeee. Clearly they only like the show for the potential relationship and not it’s content. Anyways I sound insane but love you bye xxxxx

Truthfully the only thing that worries me is that all the negativity and noise would affect the way the duffers choose to write the final season. I have stated many times that b*ler is not going to happen and mileven will not break up just to break up - I truly believe that. But it does sadden me to think that mike & el might get less screen time than they would have before the fandom got so loud and angry.

Beyond that, the theorizing doesn’t bother me. And if the final season is good and satisfying, other people’s interpretations and theories will be even less significant, like dull background static. That’s really all the negativity is anyways: noise. I also genuinely do believe that the real people losing here are this particular group of b*ler shippers - they’ve invested so much of themselves into something that doesn’t exist, convinced that they see something that others don’t, and it’s going to be all the more painful when it doesn’t materialize in the final season like they thought it would. I’m not saying every person that ships b*ler perceives the show like this, but there are certain people who have convinced themselves it’s going to happen and it just isn’t. But I do get why some of the things they say can be hurtful, especially when they rely on prejudice to validate their story.

I would never try to tell you how to feel, but I can say that keeping some degree of distance between myself and the media I consume is really important for my well-being. I think sometimes it can be easy to forget that all of this fandom stuff is supposed to be something we engage in for fun. If it’s making us feel bad, then what purpose is it serving in our lives? I don’t mean this to sound patronizing. Your frustration is so valid, and loving and investing energy in a show isn’t bad - it’s natural! But part of what makes fandom a positive experience is to remember that this is a space for fun and to make your fandom space (whether it be Tumblr, Twitter, or reddit) the safest space you can — blocking tags, blocking users, etc..

I often get wrapped up in the heat of the debate, I’m right there with you. But at the end of the day, these are just people - most of them younger than me — and their opinions don’t hold any more weight than yours just because they speak with a lot of conviction. So if they want to continue theorizing past season 5, I say let them. It won’t change anything for us.

In any case, I hope with this rant you were able to got some of the bad feelings off your chest. Be well 💕

[mlchaelwheeler]

I do wonder why some people actually think the duffers intend for Mike and El to be endgame, even if they ship it and believe Mike is straight. I shipped them when I was younger, but I still always thought that the show would end with them not being together (after season 2 I started shipping byler and I was like ohh so that's Mike's endgame lol). Ships like Jancy and Jopper I always saw as being endgame, but not Mike and El. It was never going to be a fairytale where they end up together, I used to imagine the show ending with them going their separate ways, a little bit like the end of season 1. I also don’t see the duffers having El end up with her first boyfriend, and the first boy she really connected with. I know Finn and Millie said last year that El and Mike would never break up and that it’s like they’re married without the option of divorce, but that’s so unhealthy esp given how young they are and how toxic the relationship has gotten. I really don’t see the duffers doing that, this isn’t a fairytyle CW show lol and I just don’t think it’s really in character for them as writers tbh. In 2019 or 2020 I vaguely remember the duffers saying something along the lines of Mike having this idea of his ‘first first crush’ with El. Now that certainly doesn’t scream endgame to me, and they aren’t describing him as someone who's desperately in love with El lol.

Yah, the narrative has shown time and time again why Mike and El are toxic together and not meant to be endgame. They got into a relationship right after El discovered life outside the lab, and when they're together, they're worse versions of themselves. This should be an immediate red flag for any viewer. I was also a mi|even shipper in S1 (and kinda S2), but the minute I started S3 I immediately hated them together, simply bc they felt like completely different characters. I think that this was intentionally done by the writers to show how unhealthy their relationship had become. Paired to the constant comparison between mi|even and lumax in S3, it's clear that if mi|even was being written as a healthy relationship, it would've been much much different in the show. The writers could've easily achieved this by keeping the characters the same but perhaps having trouble balancing smaller issues, like how El is acclimating to society or how Mike deals with balancing his time between his friends and El. It's not like the party doesn't know El--they can all hang out together like Lucas and Max! In S3, it seems like Mike is constantly separating El from the rest of the group bc he has no idea how to be the "boyfriend" Mike he is when he's with El and the "normal" Mike he is when he's with his friends.

Atp in the show, if mi|even ends up being endgame, I think it will be very poor writing. There have been too many red flags brought up between them for it to be a coincidence. Furthermore, why have Will develop a crush on Mike if this isn't going to lead anywhere? It seems obvious that Will's story isn't going to end in rejection, after all the trauma he's already been put through. It only makes sense logically for Mike and Will to end up together from a narrative standpoint, bc otherwise both their arcs the past 2 seasons would've been for nothing. If that's the case, I would be beyond disappointed. I'd even be fine with byler not being endgame if the narrative supported mi|even's healthy development. But it doesn't! Atp, we've only been shown how healthy Mike and Will are together as opposed to Mike and El. It all has to mean something.

[smoosnoom]

can’t believe that i finally decided to comment all ur works that i read before daily compliments.

“let me steal this moment from you” became my first victim. tbh i haven’t read it since november i think?? and part of my brain which is responsible for memory is too occupied by remembering facts about u so i don’t remember plot sorry. this one is gonna be like the first time 🙏🏻

“If anything, it’s a miracle any of them are still awake and functioning.” no fr. they spent like a week in that uncomfortable van and the first thing they did after returning to hawkins is cleaned the cabin?? not even shower.

“At least it would save the catastrophe of seeing Argyle and Ted Wheeler interact.” ohh, i’d like to see that

“It’s blue. He imagines painting a yellow sun on it.” 🥺🥺 bc he’s yellow and sunshine and lights up every room he walks in. sorry i love him so much

“He wonders if he's more of a monster than a mistake.” ok i had 10 minutes tears break after that 🧍🏻‍♀️ maybe i Am crybaby idk

“He’s pretty sure it’s the first time they’ve laughed together since they’ve arrived back in Hawkins.” poor boys haven’t laughed in Weeks :( i wish i could fix everything for them

will wants to make “smalltown boy” with mike so bad and i can’t blame him. my boy deserves be as far away from hawkins as possible.

“He doesn’t have any time for self-doubt when Mike turns his hand over in Will’s grasp, until their hands are properly entwined” it’s all them. best friends, each other reassurance and safe space, soulmates if u want. i just love them ughhh. that’s why they hits so hard.

“we aren’t kids anymore” omg how do u exactly know where to put references?

“And we got to bury Jonathan in a bunch of sand, which was pretty fun.” oh wait!! i remember ur Fantastic fan art! writer And artist how talented u are!!

“Night Seven” ofc its night seven. love that it could have been 5+1 but it’s byler so it’s seven instead.

“and it seems to be the right move when Mike lets out an appreciative hum” my “naturally good kisser will” agenda never dies. he just knows what to do he didn’t need practice 🙏🏻

“He probably looks like a kissed-dumb idiot.” he is. good for him!

god, ilysm. ur so talented u have no idea. and u make me feel things.

i love that fic so bad and if u like it too u should thank moon for it!!

if it helps i dont even Remember most of "let me steal this moment", every time i click post it's like every associated memory just vanishes from my brain

im glad u get to experience it all over again i wish i could do the same with other fics </3

"the first thing they did after returning to hawkins is cleaned the cabin?? not even shower." U ARE SO RIGHT i thought abt that the first time i watched vol 2 like what do u mean u arent even going to change !!!! u have been in those close for Days !!!!

i almost did write a ted wheeler and argyle interaction . Almost

that is so real . will byers my sunshine sweetpie

HEOEOKPJY IM SO SOSRRY

so real and true ! i need these two far far away from hawkins and HAPPYYY

u get me !!!!!! theyve alwyas been best friends first and thats why they hit so different

oh god not the drawing 😭😭😭 can we pretend that Didn't happen . maybe . my artistry isnt grea t

IM SO HAPYPPYY U NOTICED !!!! night seven !!!! it was a seven !!!!!!!

will is just naturally good at it idk what to tell u . yes he has never kissed anyone Yes he is a loser yes hes also great as kissing . sorry

so honored to have made u feel things <3 alya my beloved it is Always the best day of my life whenever u decide to read something of mine :D

[scheodingers-muppet]

sorry i haven’t been posting i lowkey forgot i was real. but anyways back on my bullshit let’s go

fearless. y’all know the drill

Fearless: Steddie. Eddie to Steve. 1) i’m a sucker for fics where Steve just decides “who cares about homophobia, i’ll intimidate them until they leave us alone” (i know it’s unrealistic just let me have this) and Eddie is just starstruck anytime Steve stands up for him. also the line “run your hands through your hair” screams Steve. “you pull me in and i’m a little more brave” Eddie just wants to be brave, to stop running.

Fifteen: El. “somebody tells you they love you, you’re gonna believe them” “next to a redhead… and soon enough you’re best friends” her and max. “you’re dancing around the room when the night ends” you can’t convince me she didn’t do that. “your first kiss makes your head spin” “i swore i was gonna marry him but i realized some bigger dreams of mine” and “in this life, you’ll do things greater than dating the boy on the football team” we only know about el in her relations to other people. the other characters have pieces of their plots that show us who they are outside of the group. el, however, only has the rainbow room and her interactions with the party. even in california, we can see the heavy influence from her old friends.

Love Story: Lumax!! “i close my eyes and the flashback starts” she thinks about Lucas for her happy memories. “daddy said stay away from Juliet” Billy tried to keep them apart; it’s not hard to imagine her stepdad would have an issue with him too. “escape this town for a little while” it’s not unlikely that they would want to leave hawkins. “they’re trying to tell me how to feel” both the racism and people trying to help her through Billy

Hey Stephen: STEDDIE!!!!! from Eddie. “i know looks can be deceiving” “as we walked, we were talking and i didn’t say half the things i wanted to” “of all the girls throwing rocks at your window, i’ll be the one standing out there in the cold” the whole chorus reminds me of the joke that Eddie hates loving a jock, but he just can’t help it. the references to shinning and i just know eddie would call steve his “knight in shinning armor” “all those other girls are beautiful but would they write a song for you?”

White Horse: El and Mike. I think El would get her ideas of romance from fairytales and movies. “this ain’t hollywood, this is a small town” “i was a dreamer before you went and let me down” “this is a big world, that was a small town” she’s gonna move on and be okay

You Belong With Me: Byler. the whole song is about being in love with your best friend. ignore the internalized misogyny and view it as “you guys are so different, but we fit together at such a good level” “i’m the one who makes you laugh when you know you’re about to cry” and the “crazy together” where they comforted each other.

Breathe: Nancy about Barb. there isn’t a huge reason other than the fact that this doesn’t fit any of the breakups and i think we don’t discuss the nancy-barb thing enough

Tell Me Why: Stancy. “you know you got a mean streak” about both of them. “i remember what you said last night” and the halloween party. “you tell me you love me then you cut me down” steve did not do enough to help nancy deal with losing barb. i feel like their relationship would have been very on-again-off-again and toxic tbh.

You’re Not Sorry: Stancy again. like i said, on-again-off-again

The Way I Loved You: Jopper. “he” is bob, “you” is hopper. i fully think they dated before she got with lonnie. and that it was a rollercoaster relationship. i think they were on-again-off-again and when they were off, she got with lonnie and ended up pregnant so they stayed together. i don’t care if it’s canon or not, that’s what happened.

Forever and Always: Byler fighting. “we almost never speak, i don’t feel welcomed anymore” they used to be so much closer. “i stare at the phone, he still hasn’t called” mike didn’t write will. “did i say something way to honest?” mike telling will “it’s not my fault you don’t like girls” “here’s to everything coming down to nothing” tearing down Castle Byers

The Best Day: El. the first part about hopper. “i know you’re not scared of anything at all” and saying hopper is her hero. the second part about max. “i don’t know how my friends could be so mean” and her breakup with Mike. “we talk and window shop till i’ve forgotten their names” “i have an excellent father. his strength is making me stronger” the last part about joyce. “ you set up a paint set in the kitchen and you’re talking to me” joyce would show her so many different hobbies. “you’re the prettiest lady in the whole world” and “i love you for giving me your eyes” she starts doing her hair and dressing like joyce.

Change: the whole group, talking about the 4-year battle with a mirror/hell dimension “i’ll do anything to see it through” “the time will come for us to finally win.” “it’s hard to fight when the fight ain’t fair” “fight for what we’ve worked for all these years” “it was the fight of our lives”

Jump Then Fall: Steddie from Steve. “i watch you talk, you don’t notice” “i like the way your hair falls in your face” “i love each freckle on your face” from eddie “when people say things that bring you to your knees, i’ll catch you” i also just think this is how steve loves

Untouchable: ronance. robin loves the stars, you can’t convince me otherwise “untouchable like a distant diamond sky” “it’s like a million little stars spelling out your name” “i’m reaching out and i can’t tell you why” i also love the idea of “untouchable” being because robins scared to make her move (as we saw during her opening scene in season 4)

Come In With The Rain: stobin. platonic of course. i have a horrible feeling steve is gonna die in season 5 and i doubt robin will handle it well. “i know all the steps to your door but i don’t wanna go there anymore” the entire chorus “i know you by heart, and i don’t even know where to start”

Superstar: steddie. very steddie album. but imagine eddie going on tour and steve joking he’s gonna have to fight off all the groupies in love with eddie and he surprises him at one of his shows “you played in bars, you play guitar” “you sing me to sleep” steve would totally call eddie “superstar”

The Other Side Of The Door: lumax. we know max pushes people away when things get tough and we’ve also seen her and lucas fight and break up various times but she still loves him and misses him.

Today Was A Fairytale: i honestly can’t think of one

You All Over Me: Stancy, from steve’s perspective. he changed *because* of nancy. he’s a better person because of her. “i still got you all over me” “we were never really meant to be so i lied and i cried and i watched a piece of myself die” “held out and held on, god knows, too long”

that’s all i got

[wayward-sherlock]

Okay since you said you loved when people talked to you about your fic I just wanted to say again HOW MUCH I love your Mike vs gay quiz fic. I kid you not, there were TEARS of laughter running down my face, and then tears of happiness when he finally got his stupid fucking act together. AND RONANCE?! I loved the little hint of it. Steve is such a good friend lamo. If you ever felt like it I would love to see a ronance fic that you wrote! And if I'm remembering correctly, I loved the little hint of acespec Mike. That headcanon will always hold a special place in my heart.

If you had to choose one of your byler fics, which is your favourite? I really need to get around to reading the rest of your stuff, but considering the sheer number of them on my marked-for-later list, I sort of need to prioritise lol

Anyway I'm rambling, so I'll just say one more time that I love that fic with all my heart <3

OMG BESTIE THANK YOU THIS MADE MY DAY 💕💕i really do love when people talk to me about my fics it’s so ajsnxkmaoa

i am actually trying to hype myself up to write a ronance fic for one of my irls…if you have any ideas, feel free to reach out, i’d love to hear them 😌

there WAS a hint of acespec mike…was that my headcanon coming through or me projecting???stay tuned… (i do headcanon most of the party as acespec, and mike and will specifically as demi, so im glad you liked that little bit of characterization☺️)

oh my god ive never been asked this before…ive written so many and they’re all so beautiful in their differences…i would say my favorite would be either bad idea! or could i need you this much? bad idea! i worked really hard on and im happy with the result and could i need you this much? is a fic that i hold near and dear to my heart because of how personal it is to me. sorry if that wasn’t an answer you were looking for, and OF COURSE don’t feel any obligation to read any of my fics! you can read whatever you want to :)

i love your rambling!! thank you so much for letting me know…i really appreciate it more than you know🫶i will be going back to this ask when my mean depressed brain tries to tell me im not good at writing 💕so thank you

[toireht]

Okay here are my thoughts on volume 2 and season 4 as a whole:

-Will being pushed to the back was so unnecessary. Him and El are kinda the main characters of this show and there was a lot of El which was rlly nice but Will really wasnt there this season and why? Like i genuinely dont understand why. I missed him hes my favorite character

^ And mike and johnathan too?? like usually mike is so important hes like comes up plans and shit and he just wasnt?? there?? and i kinda feel like mikes character was nuked this season. His (and Wills) whole plotline this season was around his relationship with El... come on I want to see little micheal wheeler fight monsters with his friends. and ive also seen a lot of people reminding us how caring he was in season 1 and 2 and yeah. he rlly was and i miss that i dont believe that puberty hit and now mike only cares abt el like his character doesnt make sense anymore and i dont know why

- I honestly lowkey hated the cali plot and i rlly feel like the show would have been a lot better if the byers never moved. like they had to relocate bc of El and Joyce wanted a fresh start or something i dont remember but they very easily could have just not wrote that in. I just think that a lot of problems ppl are having with this season could have been avoid if the byers never moved.

-Aryle... hes definitely great. But i just...you know hes a fun character but thats kind of ALL he is. he is literally just a comic relief and is pretty useless throughout the whole season besides driving the cali gang which could have easily been done by johnathan instead of introducing a whole new character that probably isnt going to stay next season because hes supposed to be in california (which you know this whole problem could have been avoided if the byers never moved)

-the way our characters were split this season was a little weird but also not? like it made sense bc the groups this season were based off of just where everyone was but like i said, i wish the byers never moved. plus all the fan favorites were in hawkins and sometimes it felt like that was the only important storyline happening. like the cali gang just felt so behind compared to what was happening in hawkins

-my whole life would be infinitely better if every season was still set during halloween each year

-As much as i love this show, I think some of its charm has been lost... As our characters (mostly talking abt the kids here because they have always been the main focus since the beginning) have grown up it feels like maybe the duffers and writers of the show have focused a little too much on the fact that they are growing up and having relationships instead of focusing on what the show was originally about. a fun sci-fi show with monsters and kids saving the day and having little lighthearted relationships in the corner. I dont know if my point if coming across right but like it felt like theres just a little too much focus on the characters romantic relationships and honestly i dont care!! i want to watch monsters and kids figuring out how to defeat them in a fun 80s aesthetic! i am tired of the drama between stancy and jancy and as much as i would love byler i would be okay with mileven if they would have focused on their relationship less bc like i said earlier his relationship with el was mikes entire plotline this season. which just makes me sad because i usually love his character. yes even thought hes a little shit thats what makes him so loveable, because hes a little shit and he used to care abt saving all of his friends

This kind of ended in a rant but those were the problems I had with this season. I was definitely disappointed with a lot of stuff in volume 2 but I still enjoyed watching it as much as I could because this show is still really good and means a lot to a lot of people. I hope the duffers can like fix themselves because I would hate to see this show get like ruined because of bad writing in the later seasons.

[knownoshamc]

I think the difference between j*hnlock and byler is simply intent. Sh*rlock creators got a kick out of making fun of their fans and of the sheer idea of them being gay, you can see it in episode 1 of s3, making fun of fans who make theories. It’s different because they were being explicitly mean and joking about it the whole time but for an audience that had quite a lot of younger teens, it won’t be obvious. Their intent was to harm. But st isn’t doing that and byler isn’t meant as some huge joke. So in that way having these theories (tho while they do give me flashbacks to the j*hnlock era) about byler is more like connecting real things that are happening in the show. Rather than things being placed in the show to deliberately make fun of people

yeah, exactly! I agree with you.

I used to be a fan of the show back then, but s3 ruined it for me for this reason too. I can't really remember how the actors responded to john & sherlock, whether they talked about it (like Finn and the others do, vaguely of course). I am not sure if there was that much to analyse in regards to the characters' sexuality either in comparison to Mike, for example, where people here write good essays on it.

may I say something similar for dean & castiel too, though, they dragged it on for way too long (didn't finish the show really), and they ended it with Castiel saying 'I love you' and without getting a response he was dragged to hell, which sounds like a joke to, but...apparently not. to me this sounds a bit like they're saying "look, you were right, de*tiel is a thing. but we will only confirm only one of them & he'll die right after. aren't you happy?"

I just hope we have moved on from the era that gay ships are just implied or made fun of.