#leicester isn't part of adrestia

[randomnameless]

I think the writers didn't write set in stone rules for Crest so they could have a more varried experience for the cast and all but some of them just... makes me ask question. Like why is there so many in Empire people who have several crest, not only all of Mercedes and Jeritza's half siblings, but also Edelgard and Lysithea yet in other country they don't and it's not all people of the Empire because Caspar doesn't have one and Hanneman's sister doesn't have one...and then you learn that they experimented on Lysithea first when she is 2 years younger then Edelgard who was 14 when she was experimented upon by the Agarthans... just... what the heck is this game ?

Jugdral too apparently didn't have rules for Holy Blood inheritence!

But... the games aren't all gung-ho about blaming Holy Blood for everything wrong in this verse...

Granted, iirc, do we know if the Emile and Mercie's step siblings had crests? I thought their step father wanted to shag Mama Martitz to get crested more kids - bar Emile who was already a crested Bartels !

Also, Hanneman's sister had one, that's why she died when her hubby tried to re-roll many times to get a crested heir?

That's partly why I'm curious about Adrestia, because we know there are crested nobles/people who are either fit to be pawned off as wedding prizes, or they just... exist, and no one gaf about them.

There's a heavy dose of sexism in how the Empire deals with this issue, but tbh, I wouldn't say it's specifically a "crested" issue, but more one where... Adrestian's society sucks, because some people try to become "more powerful" by any means necessary, let it be alliances where they offer their daughters, getting "high valued" babies or just, getting rid of people because they can (house martitz, house nuvelle, etc etc).

Monica was adopted by Baron Ochs, but she wasn't offered to a potential husband who started to work on his legacy to get a trillion crested heirs.

Bergliez was retconned in Nopes to have a Cichol Crest, even if all of Caspar's supports in FE16 treated him as a "non important" member of the House not because he was crestless, but because he was a second son...

But in general, yep, at least in backstory, Adrestia has a lot of unnamed randoms with crests (which is represented in Nopes, some generics have crests!) and yet they're randoms and not the ones calling the shots, almost as if having a crest, or not having one, isn't as important as being born male to the right family.

(and I will die on this HC-hill, Adrestia must have a least 3 different branches of the Hresvelg House, meaning at least a dozen of legitimate randos with a Crest of Seiros, Supreme Leader must have had some cousins too, and we're not even talking about bastard children!)

[flower-of-knighthood]

Definition of a Revolution

There's been a recent trend where Edelgard supporters refer to Edelgard's war as a revolution, I don't know if they're purposefully disregarding the definition of revolution or if they're simply ignorant, either way, they're still just wrong.

Firstly, we should begin with the definition of the word, Revolution, which has two main meanings but the one we're most interested in is the overthrowing of a government or ruler, as that tends to be the most popular meaning.

Now last time I checked, neither Faerghus or Leicester are governing Adrestia, which means Edelgard attacking them can't be part of a revolution. As for the Church of Seiros, Adrestia kicked them out 120 years prior to the game's start, and the Church of Seiros isn't in a position of governance over Adrestia either. So then the question is who exactly is Adrestia launching a revolution against?

I'm sure the question on the reader's mind is who exactly is Adrestia launching a revolution against? Many of Edelgard's supports including Edelgard herself believe that her war is a revolt against the social groundwork of Fodlan itself.

Now that seems clever, but falls apart on a closer inspection, because it could be argued that every single war in history could be counted as a revolution which would greatly dilute the meaning of the word. Do you honestly think that the Vietnam War should count as a revolution? The Invasion of Poland by Russia and Nazi Germany in World War II? The Colonization of the American Continent?

For instance the Napoleonic Wars could be argued as a revolution under this logic as one could say that Napoleon was rebelling against the social groundwork of Europe. Now I would think it would be obvious that Napoleon was not launching a revolution, as he was simply intending on conquering Europe.

Now one could try to argue that I'm arguing semantics or performing some description pedantry, but the truth of the matter is that if you're going to use a word especially with a strong meaning such as revolution, make sure you know what the actual definition is, as for those who purposefully disregard the meaning of the word, Congratulations, You're not a Clown, You're the entire Circus.

Regardless of how many people try to claim that it's a rebellion, a revolution, or any other synonym of the word, what will remain true is that Edelgard's war is simply a war of conquest, nothing more and nothing less, and it would be nice if people were honest with themselves and admit that.

[semi-imaginary-place]

characters most likely to join the Leicester faction or make the most narrative sense being recruited into VW: Shamir and Cyril work very well as thematic outsiders and foreigners with unique perspectives and nuance that at time challenge Claude's vision. Shamir also isn't really attached to any faction, she goes where the money goes, and Leicester is the land of merchants. Their supports with Claude are also great. Petra: thematically the same as above. Brigid is also looking after its own interests and so staying as uninvolved in a continental land war as possible is most beneficial for them. Her ending and support with Claude are also one of my favorites. Linhardt: Golden deer has most of the interesting crest subjects in Lysithea and Marianne. Linhardt is violence avoidant, detests blood, and doesn't care about anything the Empire stands for (either under Edelgad or before). He also has a paralogue with Leonie that makes most sense on Verdant Wind which is already about the true history of the saints and crests. Balthus has STRONG ties to the Alliance from his best friend Holst, to Hilda, to his refuge with and debt to Lysithea's parents, to his milf crush on Claude's mom. Those 5 have the strongest argument but other with less strong but still decent arguments include Dorothea who also hates war, Caspar who only has loose ties to the Adrestia and would follow Lin. Sylvain is an interesting case as his is him both running away from Faerghus values while also not fighting to end Adrestia.

Heard someone put forth the idea of Petra being a part 2 recruit like Lorenz and Ashe for VW and I rather like it. The whole Fire Emblem franchise is based how around anyone can die and people having wildly diverging life paths based of which of their comrades die. However in Three Houses this ends up being a weakness because it means none of the students can be plot relevant. Like in the case of Brigid allying with Leicester, that would mean they do so regardless of if Petra is killed as an enemy, Petra is recruited and dies, or Petra is recruited and lives to the end of VW.

[blaiddydbrokeit]

Some thoughts I had about the Holy Kingdom, the Alliance, their naming conventions and some timeline things.

So we are familiar with the Empire's name format of First Name von Last Name, and that prior to the founding of the Kingdom, it was the likely standard to naming conventions within Fodlan nobility. Given that Loog I was called out as Loog von Blaiddyd, and that Kyphon was presumably descent from the Fraldarius lineage, it's safe to also assume that Kyphon would be Kyphon von Fraldarius. Following the founding of the Kingdom in Red Wolf Moon, Imperial Year 751 at the end of the War of the Eagle and Lion, it may be established that the naming convention continued to assume a similar format for the subsequent time. The Leicester Rebellion in 801 saw the breakaway of Leicester from Adrestia, and its following assimilation under the Kingdom banner as a protectorate. This would likely have been during the reign of the king after Loog I, or the potential following king who would become predecessor to the reign of Klaus I.

It can be assumed that Klaus I was responsible for implementing that first shift in naming convention within the Kingdom to further distinguish its identity from the Empire and assert sovereign loyalties from its noble houses. This likely makes Banfig, Krouffer and Kite part of the first generation using such a format, placing the beginning several decades before the Crescent Moon War in 881.

This also makes sense timeline wise, given that the Alliance portrays an incomplete switch from the Empire format to the Kingdom format. It suggests that such conventions were not yet standard in the Kingdom at the time of breakaway, that with the formation of the Alliance under their own banner, only some of the houses had already adopted it and would simply continue to use it, and others no longer saw need to conform to Kingdom practices when they were flying their own banner.

We get a bit of a skip in terms of what we are told from this point - nothing too major for about 200 years. However, this encompasses an estimate of 6 to 8 generations during which the convention becomes distinctly standard to the Kingdom, that even minor houses like the Barony of Dominic would conform - hence Gustave being canonically "Gustave Eddie Dominic". The early 1100s (think the first 2 decades or so) would be the reign of Lambert and Rufus' grandfather, and from the late 1130s onward, the reign of Lambert and Rufus' father during which he would serve as squire.

Given that Lambert doesn't become king until the later 1150s - inferred from his time at the Academy in the earlier part of the decade, and that his coronation must have come before Dimitri's birth in 1162, I think it holds up fairly well in the timeline we were presented. Gustave would have been well into his 30s during Lambert's reign, and in his 50s during Rufus' regency, he could definitely have been the one overseeing Dimitri's training and youth between the 1160s and 1170s. Rufus' regency in Houses always ends in 1181, whether by death or otherwise, and Gustave is in his early 60s during the war phase in 1185. Interestingly, Dimitri's own coronation in AM (the only route where he survives the war) being toward the tail end of 1185 is actually quite a gap (30+ years since Lambert's own coronation and almost 10 years since his death, since Rufus is regent rather than King) if we notice how often the monarchy of Faerghus changes hands at about a 20 year interval.

It's fascinating how strongly the timeline holds with a little bit of logical inference, isn't it?

[travelling-on-the-octopath]

"the church bans official contact with outsiders" okay but like isn't that. wrong tho. wasn't there a piece of lore that had sreng and faerghus make a pact by offering up a chieftain's child or something. and isn't duscur like, technically not really part of fodlan (hence all the different beliefs and stuff)? but the church is completely fine with dimitri making peace with them - and with lambert trying to do so in the past. like wut lmao

Yup, it's mentioned in the Sreng paralogue at least that the chief offered up his son as a way of calling something of a ceasefire, I believe. And I would say Duscur is pretty much treated like a separate entity from Faerghus at the very least, but I feel comfortable to say it's detached from Fodlan entirely (different language from that one spoken in Leicester, Faerghus, and Adrestia). But regardless I've found that there are few claims against the church with less of a leg to stand on than this one. Right off the bat you have two foreigners in Rhea's inner circle: Cyril and Shamir, the former who's just allowed to fuck around the monastery if he so chose. But you point out a line that indicates official, and I imagine legal, prohibitions against contact with outsiders.

The problem with this so-called official rule is that it's only ever mentioned as a shot against Rhea. (Incomprehensible, seeing as the Western Church is the one that wants her head for her foreigner-friendly attitudes.) It's never . . . expanded upon because it doesn't exist. I find it very hard to take this claim seriously because literally all three countries in Fodlan have beef with a foreign country. That doesn't sound like isolationism to me; antagonistic and xenophobic, sure, but you can't really have xenophobia if you don't have contact outside regions to SPARK that xenophobia. The other problem with this claim is that it's so damn vague, so you don't know if people are saying the church wants limited contact, no contact at all, or for all contact to be antagonistic. Regardless, the Princess of Brigid is given room and board at the Central Church as the Empire's hostage. Lambert was happily trotting over to Duscur to begin furthering their relationship, until the Agarthans stepped in and decided that Lambert's peace was too much peace; now Duscur is torched. Dimitri in Hopes actively fixes this without a peep from the church. Relations with Almyra are tense, probably because *gestures at the two invasions in Hopes*, but at the very least Fódlan imports their tea. And this is shit that happens in an official capacity. The optics of Dimitri taking on someone from Duscur as his retainer don't scream isolationism; neither do the aforementioned Cyril and Shamir. Genuinely, honestly, I do not understand where this claim comes from or how it stands as something credible for literally more than two seconds.

I feel like i've missed something, so if someone wants to fill in the gaps for me they're more than welcome. Other people have disputed this better than I have, so I've just thrown together my thoughts

[fury-brand]

Crests are just not the most pressing or destructive influence in Fodlan. For the most part they cause suffering in the lives of noble kids and make succession complicated and overwrought - and the cast is mostly noble kids so this is why it seems so pressing. There is no one in the cast, not even a villain, who actually uses Crests as an in-world justification for their divine right to rule, making them pretty much immaterial to commoners who don't even have access to basic literacy without capital*.

The most destructive force (apart from evil mages) is consistently nobles and other powerful factions trying to consolidate and especially PRESERVE their power. This causes the coup in Adrestia, the Tragedy of Duscar, the infighting in Leicester. The church's worst crimes are all related to aiding and abetting this status quo in the interests of stability, not lying about crests.

I think that this is probably close to root cause of what makes talking about this game frustrating, and what makes the story both compelling and frustrating: this isn't really broadly acknowledged.

[iturbide]

Okay but imagine the funny ally-ship that has to happen cause of this agarthan au story. Byleth bringing Claude back to jeralt and their band. And jeralt all confused over his kid bringing this other kid in, and then suddenly byleth is asking them to go to the kingdom for work instead of adrestias where all the work actually seems to be accumulating. They need help to get Claude his position back and stuff but there is only a few people who will believe their claim, the church/Rhea (Claude probably doesn't believe that) lysethia (who is currently under the agarthan Claude's reach and view) and Edelgard (but would she even care when she benefits so much from the fake) Dimitri is another but the issue there is proving real Claude is real. And Claude definitely isn't helping with being so tight lipped cause he doesn't know if he can trust byleth and byleth really needs to find a way to get him to the right people who can help them.

Like if they do get to Rhea you then have this whole debacle of jeralt confused on how his kid knew about her. Rhea being either suspicious or very much looking to byleth as Sothis cause how else would this child know things. And then the possibility of Dimitri and the lion getting conflicting reports of fake Claude back at Leicester with real Claude just standing near by probably grumbling about some of the bad tactical takes happening on every side and Rhea claiming that the Claude they knew was like Tomas/solan and that the Claude their seeing here who is both similar and different to the one they know is the real one. And I'm sure this is just a headache for both Sothis and byleth as well as Claude.

welcome to the ask that set my brain on fire there is so much good stuff here okay and the intrigue I covered part of this in the last bit (reuniting with Jeralt, getting started for the Kingdom) but just hot damn this is all so good and I'm really happy with this now so thank you anon here's the cookie you gave me the ingredients to bake

=====

It took longer than Byleth had expected to reach Fhirdiad.  But then, they had never seen this side of the Kingdom in their previous attempts.  While Edelgard’s focus remained on the Leicester border, it had not stopped Imperial forces from harrying the southern reaches of Faerghus; the band spent weeks bouncing between odd jobs on their way north, frequently aiding villages beset by Adrestian soldiers hunting for supplies away from the Kingdom army’s defensive line, and making what felt like very little progress toward their final goal.  

Their father had seemed so proud when he realized their advice to make for Faerghus was paying off so well.  That, at least, soothed some of their frustration at the delays.

Not much.  But some.  

Once they reached Arianrhod and made it known they were mercenaries looking for work, they had no trouble proceeding further unhindered.  It did give Byleth pause to see Miklan leading the troops at the fortress city, though.  They recalled the battle at Conand Tower in that other lifetime, the black beast Sylvain’s brother had become…but clearly he had never lain hands on the Lance of Ruin in this life.  Still, they imagined that Dimitri must be desperate if he would allow such a rogue to lead his men.

Proceeding north toward Tailtean, the frantic requests grew more scarce, and most often entailed defending homesteads from roving beasts (Demonic or otherwise).  It was still more than enough to pay their way along -- and the extra helped to keep them suitably clothed against the ever increasing chill of Faerghus’ northern reaches.  Byleth remembered it well from other jobs their father had done in the past, and did their best to equip Khalid for it; they knew he had never endured this kind of cold, though he said nothing here to give that away. 

He remained quiet, not aloof but distant, throughout the journey.  He was friendly enough with the other mercenaries, though he never spoke of himself even when asked, deflecting personal questions so casually toward other topics that few even realized they’d been distracted.  And in spite of his handicap, he settled almost effortlessly into the mercenary work during their travels, rather than sit back and allow Byleth to escort him as they’d intended.  They had nearly forgotten he was an adept horseman, since they remembered him most clearly astride his white wyvern, but he’d taken well to the mare their father offered, which eased their mind as much as the travel when walking still proved difficult.  His mounted archery proved as formidable from horseback as it had been from the skies in their other life; it almost seemed a shame he’d never tried his hand as a bow knight before now.

Past the plains, they at last reached the walls of Fhirdiad, cold grey stone amid the icy white and blue of the landscape.  Beyond that the castle reached toward an overcast sky, looming dark against the pale snow clouds as they made their approach.  Their father announced himself to the guards at the foot of the stairs, and they all settled in to wait while a man rushed off to pass the news along.

Khalid joined them, blowing into his gloved hands to warm them.  [Think the king will listen?]

[I hope so,] Byleth signed back, keeping a close eye on the heavy doors leading into the palace.  In that other life, Dimitri had been a man possessed by his need for vengeance, and had died in his blind pursuit of Edelgard’s head.  At least this life seemed to be treating him more kindly. 

[Got a backup plan if this doesn't work?]

It had to work.  They had come this far, and achieved this much -- to fail now would be more than they could bear. 

[I'll take that as a no,] he signed as the gate groaned open to admit them.  Most of the mercenaries hung back at the base of the stairs; Byleth ignored the guards' clear impatience to shut out the cold, keeping pace instead with Khalid as he made his way up the steps with his now well-padded walking stick.  Their father outpaced them easily, but waited at the top of the stairs for them to arrive, and all three of them entered the castle together, listening to the great doors close behind them. 

The only natural light in the foyer came from slit windows mounted high within the walls above the gate: torches provided the rest, and the smell of burning pine tar filled both the entry and the hallway beyond, leading to another grandly carved set of doors that opened as they approached.  That room, undoubtedly, housed the seat of the king -- and as expected, Dimitri awaited them before the Faerghus throne, looking torn between worry and relief. 

“Good day, Your Majesty,” their father said, bowing before him.  Byleth and Khalid both followed suit, though they could see that the king had no attention to spare for anyone else. 

“Good day to you,” he replied.  “You say you are mercenaries, looking for work?”

“We are,” their father agreed.  “We have come to offer our swords to your cause, Your Majesty -- and to seek a favor.”

That gave Dimitri pause.  “A favor?”

They stepped forward, and Jeralt moved aside to present them both.  “This is Byleth and Khalid,” he said as they bowed; the king of Faerghus offered a polite, if somewhat confused, nod of acknowledgement.  “They wish to ask for your aid.”

“Speak, then,” Dimitri said. 

“Much appreciated, Your Majesty,” Khalid replied. 

The Blaiddyd relic was in the king's hand before he could finish speaking; Byleth’s sword was in theirs before Dimitri could bring his spear to bear, placing themselves between the two men.  “What is the meaning of this!?” 

“It’s not what you think,” their father tried to interject.

The king would hear none of it.  “I would recognize that man’s voice across a battlefield, let alone in the confines of my own home -- you would dare bring the man who threatens Faerghus’ peace and sovereignty before me in anything but irons and expect me to simply wait for him to strike me down!?”

“That’s right, he went to Garreg Mach,” Khalid muttered.  And then, raising his voice as he limped out from behind Byleth to stand at their side, “I understand the sentiment, Your Majesty, but I’m not a threat.  No weapons, see?”  He gamely turned to show his missing quiver, absent bow, and the empty belt on his hip -- but they knew the display was just as much intended to draw attention to his lingering handicap (and they saw Dimitri’s eye follow that labored progress, his frown deepening as he tried to decide whether or not it was an act). 

The king did not set his weapon aside.  But he did lower it, his hand tight on the relic’s black metal shaft.  “Speak, then,” he growled. 

“Much appreciated -- again,” Khalid said lightly.  “Judging by the reception, you've already met someone that looks like me, who's now causing problems for you.  Two years ago, on my way to Garreg Mach Officer's Academy, my convoy was ambushed, and I was kidnapped by a group of people I'd never seen before, who have the ability to change their appearance and take on the exact likeness of another person.  I know it sounds crazy," he admitted, trying to forefend disbelief (though Byleth saw Dimitri pale rather than sneer), "but I watched a complete stranger transform into a copy of me so exact I'd have thought I was looking in a mirror."

"What did they want?" the king asked, his tone grave in its quiet. 

Byleth could see how tightly he gripped his walking stick, trying to hide the tremors that no one else had noticed.  "Information.  Mostly about me.  Some things about the Alliance, other nobles, and so on.  Part of it was so they could keep up with the act that the fake was me; the other part, I'm guessing, was to find ways to gain power over the Great Nobles heading up the Leicester round table.  If you’ve been having problems with the Alliance--”

Dimitri’s voice cut through his speech.  “The Alliance is no more.” 

Khalid’s head came up in surprise, his attention darting between Byleth and the king.  “What happened?”

Dimitri considered him for a moment, standing his lance upright at his side.  “It was dissolved and reformed into the Federation of Leicester -- with Claude von Riegan as its first king.”

Byleth recognized the perfect stillness that overcame Khalid’s expression.  “You said it would get worse,” he breathed.  “You said it would get worse, but I didn’t even consider that--”

“Is that all you have to say?” the king prompted. 

“No, Your Majesty,” Khalid replied smoothly, as though he had never faltered.  “My apologies, that…caught me by surprise.”

“It took all of us unawares,” Dimitri agreed, his tone almost gentle.  

A thin smile curved across Khalid’s face.  “I can imagine.  The fact remains, though: Alliance or Federation, the man in charge of Leicester is giving you problems.  I’d like to help.”

“Why?” the king asked. 

“Because he took my face and my name and is using them to destroy Fódlan.”

Dimitri’s expression hardened.  “You claim the man threatening our western border is an imposter -- that you were abducted and replaced by someone sharing your likeness -- but what proof do you have?”

“None,” Khalid shrugged. 

“Then how can you expect--”

“--anyone to believe me, I know,” he finished.  “But you’d never met me before today.  Like I said, I was abducted on my way to the monastery: it was the imposter you knew during your time there, so I can’t tell you some fact about the real Claude von Riegan because you wouldn’t know it, either.  And I only met you for the first time today, too, so I can't tell you some private bit of information only the real Claude von Riegan would know because there's no shared history.  Makes it frustratingly hard to prove anything."

"Then what precisely is your plan?" the king demanded.

Khalid spread his hands, keeping his walking stick tucked securely under his arm.  "Like I said: I want to help you get rid of him.  I can give you tactics to deal with whatever he tries to throw at you in the field.  My mobility's shot, but my aim's fine: I can man a ballista from your back line -- or I can take a horse to compensate, and fight closer to the front as a bow knight, your choice.  Pick one.  Or all three, if you want, I can juggle."

Dimitri frowned, his hand tightening once more on the Blaiddyd relic.  "You expect us to trust you?"

"No," Khalid said (and something about the easy way he said it made something in Byleth's chest ache).  "I expect you to check every plan I give you, if you ask for tactics.  I expect you to have another archer watching my aim on a ballista and another knight doing the same on the front.  You've got as much reason to trust me as I do you, which is basically none -- but we have a common enemy here, and you know what they say about the enemy of my enemy."

“...wherein lies the favor, then?” Dimitri asked. 

“I need your help getting rid of him.  Once he’s taken care of, I just want to go home."

The king opened his mouth…and closed it again, his expression troubled.  "He is keeping you from it?"

Khalid made a vague gesture with his free hand.  "With him heading up the…Federation…it's not safe for me to set foot in Leicester territory.  If I’m not killed outright, I'd probably end up back in that prison, and I'd like to avoid that at all costs.  For obvious reasons," he finished, gesturing vaguely toward his bad leg.  “He has an army at his command: there’s no way I can take him on alone, and even if Jeralt here and his mercenaries were a match for them, I don’t have the coin to pay for that service.  I need support from someone that stands a chance…”

“And now that Leicester has thrown its lot in with Adrestia, you elected to petition Faerghus and the Church of Seiros for aid in reclaiming your homeland,” Dimitri finished. 

“Something like that,” Khalid nodded.

The king of Faerghus finally set his relic aside.  “I can make no promises to you at present; however, I will discuss the matter with the Archbishop when she returns, and inform you once we have come to a decision.”

“Where is Lady Rhea now?” their father asked, a subtle edge to his voice despite his apparent calm.

“Leading a service for the Knights of Seiros who fell in the last battle at Aillel,” Dimitri said.  “They lost a great many able soldiers and one of their most prominent warriors when the Federation army arrived to reinforce Adrestia’s troops.”

“If your western border is coming under attack, would you be willing to work out terms for our assistance in the meantime?" their father suggested. 

The king nodded, gesturing for him to approach.  Their father looked to them as they prepared to leave with Khalid -- and they saw him sign, subtly, [We'll talk later.]

About a great many things, Byleth imagined. 

The doors closed behind them once they crossed the threshold, and Khalid offered a practiced smile devoid of any true relief.  [I think that went well.]

Byleth nodded, keeping easy pace at his side while they moved back toward the castle entry.  Watching his progress, they told themselves again that this was not the same friend they had known in that other life -- that he had not yet begun reaching for his goals in earnest, and his trust was still hard-earned…

But that did not make his false smile any easier to bear. 

[dmclemblems]

Personally I don't why some people think GW's end is "not bad" for Faerghus/the Lions. Dimitri, Felix, Sylvain etc are now without legitimation, they could go right back into a new civil war (since to avoid that, was one of the reasons to side with the Church). And Dimitri basically let the archbishop of the Church his people are devoted to die right in front of his capital - without sending reinforcements while a enemy army (Federation) was marching on his capital. Doesn't look good for him?

Are there people actually saying it's not a bad ending for them? Between Matthias being dead and the Church being gone (Matthias has way more experience in handling Sreng invasions than Sylvain does and has much more experience as the Margrave. If he retired and Sylvain took over he would've still been around to help Sylvain out and teach him as he went along, but now Sylvain has to handle everything himself and just hope for the best), there's so much potential and likely unrest waiting to happen.

I don't think most people will know that Dimitri didn't send reinforcements or that he "let" them die. Essentially they really just did not have the manpower left to send backup for them. Not only did they have to continue fighting the Empire in the west (meaning keeping an eye on it and make sure if troops were needed to send them), but they had to deal with Sreng (thanks to Clod/Clyde/Clout man y'all got LOTS of names for Hopes Claude lmao). They couldn't risk losing more manpower to another battle when they had ongoing battles in their own territory, because like Dimitri was explaining, he had to prioritize his own people.

At the end of the day, they'll look to him as their king, and the people who will look to him specifically are the ones he needs to protect. In the same way, Rhea is responsible for her people specifically. In AG Dimitri has reinforcements go to the western front from the Knights of Seiros, but he also tells Seteth to make sure Rhea is told that if it becomes too much for them that they are they escape and not die trying to defend the fortress. What he's saying there is that those aren't even his people that might die for his land's battle, so if it's going to cost their lives, don't stick around. They're allies, but he doesn't want them dying for a place that isn't even theirs.

He didn't really let it happen so much as he had the choice of sending aid he couldn't afford (making little difference overall for the Church's battle) or having to leave the Church to their own battle. Most people won't know the details of the war either, and the ones who do know a lot about it are the ones who knew what their situation was. Any citizens won't know whether he sent troops or why he did or didn't.

As far for people saying it's not a bad ending or what have you, it really is a bad ending for them. Not only did they lose a lot of power, but they'd have to curry favor with Claude to be allowed to keep some of their power. Chances were, Edelgard wasn't going to be able to defeat the Kingdom (she was having trouble on her end, and she also had to be rescued by the Alliance on top of that, so... chances were pretty fuckin' good that the Kingdom wasn't about to lose land to the Empire). That leaves Leicester, and Claude wasn't keen on ruling any part of their land. They'd probably be able to keep their land, but there would probably be disputes between Adrestia and Leicester because of Claude not just considering their lands part of Leicester (or giving her any because they were "allies"). Ultimately they would probably lose a lot of their say as an individual power.

Then there's also Petra claiming, for some wild and quite honestly stupid reason (the writers really didn't think the implications of this through), that she believes she's going to be the third big power in Fodlan. In the camp she mentions she believes that because the Kingdom will lose a lot of power, and that because that will leave only two nations in Fodlan, that Brigid (which she is the queen of) will be the mediator between them (because apparently having two powers in one land means they needs a mediator and the Kingdom, by her implication, won't be allowed to do that because they won't mean jack shit anymore after the war... which... also implies she believes Claude is going to strip them of all their political power. Again, I don't see Edelgard getting anything out of this war except a lot of dead soldiers, but that's also another topic about another man and family that you wouldn't want me discussing here lest I go way off topic lol). Though Claude would probably not strip them of their political power entirely, I do imagine he'd expect them to put his rule over theirs, meaning if he tells them to do something, they'd have to do it. The power tier would basically be Citizen -> Regional lords -> Sylvain/Felix/Ingrid/etc -> Dimitri -> Claude.

Imo in Petra's case, that's a pretty haughty and crappy claim, especially to say that in a camp where you're surrounded by people who are openly looking down on Claude's war-related choices (and one of them is one of the biggest powers in Fodlan, i.e. the second most prominent power of Leicester, i.e. Lorenz). Apparently she thinks Fodlan is going to consist of Leicester and Adrestia and that Brigid will have a say in Fodlan's politics while the Kingdom has to rot politically.

Mind you, that means Petra is basically admitting that Brigid is nothing but a vassal state of the Empire and will continue to be long after this war is over. Not sure why she thinks her situation is so much brighter and lovelier than the Kingdom's (which as we're saying here is not good). Considering she also joined Claude's army long before they allied with the Empire, that could put Brigid in quite a bit of political trouble with the Empire.

What I'm saying here is that if Petra thinks she's going to be in a better position with Fodlan as their third power (again, meaning Brigid remains nothing more than a part of Fodlan), despite that she's in a really unimportant position in this route in Fodlan, the Kingdom is going to be hurting for political power if they end up below a non-Fodlan location for power, unless Claude lets them keep it (so Petra may go to him and be like hey how about letting Brigid take their place in the power structure of Fodlan, so Claude would have to make a choice here), which even then the chain of command still ends with Claude above Faerghus. If Claude says they can keep it then they can, but he has to say so.

Claude does want to unify Fodlan in this route too though (so again, Faerghus would be under his say so), and since this route follows what Claude wants and not what Edelgard wants, if Leicester goes to war with Adrestia post GW (which is highly likely re: Edelgard is on a conquest and hasn't conquered anything in this route, and Claude expects her to keep fighting even after Rhea is killed), chances would be good that Claude would mobilize Faerghus' troops to help Leicester fight Adrestia.

Now mind you, this would hurt Faerghus even more. There's also the fact that I can 100 percent see Gautier territory withholding troops and refusing to assist Leicester, which would of course become an issue and cause a manner of strife. If Gautier refuses to send troops, Fraldarius may be and probably would be in the same boat (remember, Leicester killed Matthias and if Rodrigue disagrees with the idea to send their troops because of this, Felix is probably going to disagree with it too. Felix has a support with Rodrigue where he's asking for Rodrigue's advice as the new Duke, which means Felix values his opinion enough that he would want to take his thoughts into consideration. On top of that, if Sylvain said no because Leicester killed his father, Felix would also take Sylvain into account, so it's a no from Fraldarius, too).

So, what am I saying here? I'm saying that either Petra's weird belief somehow happens and Brigid gets more say in politics within Fodlan's borders than the Kingdom does (meaning there would be four powers now for some reason), or the Kingdom is under Leicester's rule even if it's allowed to remain an individual territory. Claude said he didn't want to rule over their lands or take their lands as a result of defeating them in war, but when it comes to a final say so, the Kingdom would be under Claude's power. They'd be allowed to keep their land and rule of their land, but they'd have to answer to him for everything.

So where does this lead us? Into a whole bitch ass mess of fighting again because Claude didn't think things through. Also, if two huge parts of Faerghus told him no, we're not sending you troops, he might try to remove them from power entirely, which... now that would cause a problem with Dimitri, and... yeah. It would just be messy. Either that happens or Claude just doesn't get troops from Faerghus' best fighters. I say this because eventually if Claude had to decide on fighting them for not giving him troops, would he actually do that considering it would cost him more manpower from his war with the Empire, or would he just suck it up and not get the troops (which Sylvain and Felix could also just say hey sorry look we can't afford to send you troops right now because we have basically nothing to spare after our war with you, which I imagine would make enough sense to Claude that he wouldn't press those areas for troops further).

There's also the fact that, again, Leicester killed Matthias and if they tried to mobilize Gautier troops, I'm pretty sure even if any got sent that Sylvain would not send his own brother out to help Leicester. Kind of like, lol you assholes killed my dad and now you want me to send my brother out to help you guys in a war lol you're fucking funny. In other words, now Leicester is down one of Faerghus' most competent commanders.

This is super long winded but what I'm saying is that even if this all ends with Faerghus keeping any power at all, they're still effectively owned by Claude now in a sense. Claude expects to go to war with the Empire after killing Rhea because he believes Edelgard's goal is conquest (and he's correct), thus she wouldn't stop fighting because Rhea was out of the picture. That would mean Claude, having been the victor over Faerghus, can decide what to do with Faerghus' troops (and Edelgard has no say in it nor any power over it because she didn't defeat them). The most likely scenario to post GW is that this is what happens eventually, which is still not good for Faerghus regardless of what happens from there.

[pelleas-at-castle-nox]

Does Edelgard actually want a united fodlan under Adrestia tho? Is that actually what she wants?maybe my view is somewhat clouded by being knee deep in 3 hopes and seeing the far more idealized black eagles route where Edelgard openly stands against the agarthans and the church, vs 3 houses where she very much feels she needs the agarthans to take out the church and win the war and then she can fight them afterwards, stopping to axe Cornelia along the way.

Her call to action at the end of part 1 is not a declaration of a reunification war but of a theological war to oust the false prophets of the church of seiros. Explicitly, her goal is to take out Rhea. Again, that's the outward image she gives to the imperial army in the imperial capital.

Now there's the matter of implications. What people say and what they mean are 2 very different things ESPECIALLY in a politician setting like Fodlan. In every route, declaring war against the church sees both Leicester and Faerghus defacto being pulled in as well. It might not immediately make sense since, after all, if she's only declaring war on the church, why would they get involved as well? (dumbing it down as much as I can here) well as shown explicitly in 3 hopes, if the officer's academy were to fall, Rhea and The knights of Serios would put up a token defense, but ultimately flee to Faerghus. This plays out differently in 3 hopes and in every route but crimson flower, which is left vague but again stated explicitly in 3 hopes: without the aid of TWISTD and their demonic beasts, an imperial invasion could take the monastery but not capture Rhea.

The high ranking officers of the church then do exactly what Edelgard wants to get rid of them for, they leverage their position and basically hijack the kingdom. In 3 houses, the core cast are all still students, so the political dealings happen almost exclusively off screen, especially in blue lions where Dmitri isn't even in his country for them. This brings us back to the implications of Edelgards actions. Only a fool would attack the church and not view it as an attack on Faerghus as well. The only wild card here is the Alliance's reaction, as there are so many competing perspectives. Some wish to join the empire, others wish to aid the church, while others still are only concerned with maintaining their independence. in 3 hopes, we see the start of the war play out in much more minute detail, we see the border territories of Leicester simply allow the imperial army to pass through on their way to the church, not getting involved. This probably also happens in 3 houses, and is why it takes a month for the invasion of the monastery to actually happen, but I digress.

Many people in the empire view Edelgard's actions not for what she says, but for their implications. If you are not a revolutionary minded individual living in the empire, the war does very much look like Adrestia's return to glory, framed as an attack on the church. This is again intentional. Edelgard knows that if she just came forward and said "the true enemy of Fodlan is the stratification of class resources, and we will be uniting under a banner of working solidarity where each may contribute to the cause as they are most able..." Well that's not worked great for anyone, especially someone in a facist empire where shadowy elites control all the major players and have horrible weapons beyond our comprehension. Edelgard uses the patriotic fervor of reactionary nobles who wish for a return to a powerful Adrestia. If she didn't, she would have to begin a civil war to forcefully expunge the nobility. And the nobility is upheld by the church (and TWISTD). NOW imagine if she did that. Imagine if Edelgard too the time to wage a civil war against the corrupt nobility of Adrestia while the church and TWISTD are at full strength. Adrestia would be burned from the ground up, destroyed from within by the fires of revolution, and from without by invasions from every single other country in Fodlan.

Again, since I don't want to seem like I'm pulling shit out of my ass: we already know that the nobility is just... Inherently opposed to her ideas. There are a few who seem to otherwise support her, Count Bergliez, Linhardts dad (sorry whatever his name is) and Duke Gerth. Bergliez and L's dad are a bit unclear, they clearly support edelgard in the war effort but they could be simply doing that because they like the idea of a unified fodlan under Adrestia. Duke Gerth meanwhile is kind of an odd dude, he screams: "character in a fire emblem game you didn't get to play" honestly. He's somewhat quirky, and often let's his heart dictate his decisions over his actual obligations, as evidenced in both 3 hopes and in him allowing Yuri and Constance to keep the fetters of Dromi despite his explicit task being to gain them as bargaining chips. Aside from them, and Jeritza depending on when exactly he gets instated as the duke of Hrym, all the rest of the nobility would raise arms against her if she tried that, and she would be fighting a real uphill battle to convince the commoners that she had their best interests in mind vs their actual leaders who do... A mixed bag job but by and large do seem to actually instill some level of loyalty across the board.

I feel like unless you're being wilfully obtuse at this point, the point has been made that Edelgard would face stiff internal resistance to her plans. But I mentioned external ones as well. What possible proof do I have? How about the ENTIRETY OF CHAPTER 3!? WE EXPLICITLY see what happens when someone puts forth the revolutionary idea that the church is not as they seem, or hell, any rebellion that the church frowns upon. Rhea rallies up the knights, sends them to invade that territory, and puts their very sons and daughters to work by forcing them to watch this bloody deed AND EVEN PARTICIPATE! And that's just the knights of Seiros when one minor lord gets upset about the extra judicial execution of his son. The church would get involved, they would likely petition the kingdom to get involved, and the weathervane aristocracy of Leicester could do anything from attack the empire to joining the invasion of Adrestia, depending on what suited their needs the most.

So, Adrestia cannot begin a revolution with enemies on all fronts. I mean, they could, but they would have... Basically no hope of doing so successfully. Edelgard believes that Fodlan /NEEDS/ Reformation, swiftly and in her life time. She also believes that her life time is most likely cut short due to the experimentation done on her, though we never really get confirmation if that's true, since we see both her and Lysithea 5 years later with no signs of advanced aging or declining health.

It's about this point where I started to realize writing this all is responding to a bad faith argument. No where in the text does Edelgard say she wants to make Adrestia great again. It's very possible that she thinks that Faerghus and Leicester are both false states instituted to be little more than pawns under the church of Serios, and as such should be folded back into the Empire, but she never says that. What she does say is that she can't deal with the Agarthans when all they have to do is skip over the border and become untouchable whenever she finds them. Even in 3 hopes, where she explicitly pivots her plan from "try to work with the Agarthans to take out the church and fight them later" to "I will drive them out of Adrestia before taking on the church" she is both: A) incredibly paranoid about what influences they do still have in Adrestia, and B) explicitly unable to pursue them as they immediately flee beyond her reach.

Is it clear I have ADHD?

So again, does Edelgard want to unite Fodlan? Yes, but only as a means of expanding her forces enough to weed out the sinister forces that control things from the shadows. If she were an actual facist, she wouldn't stop at Fodlan, she'd want to expand and take over Almyra and Brigid and Dagda and all the other external countries and continents we hear about, but that's never her concern. She explicitly plans to end the colonization of Brigid! How is that Facist!? But no, she's a reactionary facist because... Well because you say so right?

[randomnameless]

"Like, Miss “I already sent my troops to conquer your lands even if you are not the one harbouring the evil lizard lady I’m trying to get rid off” would really stop her war of conquest if the evil lizard lady dies?" You could say Clout's reasoning smacks of naivete.

Clout? Reasoning?

lol

Imo, in GW, Clout is playing on levels after levels of PR (like an onion!), and this "let's kill Rhea so the war will stop" is imo a PR excuse to justify invading Faerghus and getting Rhea out of the board.

Now, why the hateboner for Rhea herself, your guess is as good as mine (at least Supreme Leader has her "negative views based on Rhea's race", but I don't know it that's any better...).

(ramblings about Claude/Clout under the cut)

Claude isn't stupid (uh...) and knows Fodlan created the locket and the Officers Academy to fight back invasions of Almyra, and yet he seems to really believe (in FE16 at least) that Rhea is the reason why Fodlan apparently doesn't like foreigners, before discovering water is wet.

Worst reading, but one I can get behind, is Claude doesn't understand and resents the fact that Rhea, who is not a head of state, is listened to and loved by the randoms in Fodlan, she can influence them (only when they want to be infuenced though!) and the CoS, as an institution, is part of Fodlan's history and DNA/backbone.

If Claude wants to shatter everything to bring a "new age" where Fodlan will welcome with open arms their very friendly Almyran neighbours, Rhea has to be "shattered" too.

Take VW's ending :

Country, faith, history... All that had once formed the order of the world was wiped clean. The heroes whose very hands saved Fódlan from a dark fate commenced with the building of a new society. The leaders of this new, unified Fódlan began their walk down a seemingly endless path—one towards a world that would cherish differences in race and belief, one where all life would be valued equally. Those leaders clung to the hope that their path would not end with Fódlan, that it would someday span the seas to Dagda, and beyond the Throat to Almyra...

You get rid of the old and existing society/structure, to build a new one, based on lofty ideals, sure, and yet, again, how can you cherish differences in beliefs in you wipe Fodlan's faith, aka the thing people believed in? What about their history and individualities/differences ? It's wiped clean too?

A bit like Tru Piss's mistranslated ending where people thought it will erase retroactively Faerghus from history books, are we supposed to understand , from this ending, that Claude will erase Adrestia, Faerghus and Leicester from memory?

And the ominous last paragraph, what does it mean, they hope to export their path of "wiping clean" the world of "country, faith, history" too?

If we take this reading, Rhea and the CoS are inherent parts of Fodlan's identity and History. If Claude wants a blank chessboard to play "melting pot" with and ultimately add it to his future pot including Almyra, Dagda and whoever else, Rhea and the CoS, but also, the different states from Fodlan, had to disappear. Supreme Leader helped him with the "get rid of 3 states" and arguably with Rhea's death, so in a way, Claude reaps what Supreme Leader started.

But not to MAGA, to create a new land encompassing everyone (whether they want it or not!) and being one of its heads.

This is, imo, the darkest take/reading on Claude's situation and plans, but bear in mind yellow units in FE Jugdral (the game tool inspiration from Jugdral per the devs!) are antagonists, add to that Nopes and even FE16's Claude who, albeit not on the level of Supreme Leader, keeps his plans to himself - and always mentions tearing down the "walls" that separate Fodlan from the outside world, without ever mentionning the fact those walls were built for some reason.

It's not important anyways, and if you think otherwise, it's because you were led to think otherwise, we should all be friends.

Sure, interacting with outsiders doesn't contradicts Seiros's tenets, but in the end, what is Claude saying?

If I can realize my dream, Fódlan will be reborn. The old age will end and we'll welcome a new dawn.

The current Fodlan, that is supposed to follow Seiros's tenets will... end? Seiros' tenets says something, but they still need to be ignored to build a new world that will promote the same thing those tenets preached.

Hm.

The issue, imo, isn't about what is being preached, but with the "Seiros tenets" in themselves.

[lady-byleth]

I'm absolutely not saying she a was in any way right but like she really doesn't have any power over fodlan that isn't given to her. she's fantasy crystal dragon jesus pope but like nobody but members of her church have to listen to her. there's no religious ministers in adrestia. there's no cardinals with equal voice in the leicester alliance, the alliance in fact us half ruled by low key to open atheists. the knights of seiros are pretty much volunteers. Dimitri personally is agnostic?

Did y'all forget the part where she executes a dozen people for grave robbing?

Or where she tried to mind kill Byleth under the pretense of receiving a "revelation"?

How about the part where she didn't bother telling anyone that Nemesis is unkillable, still around and she had no idea where he is?

What about the whole "pretty much everyone follows the teachings of Seiros, whether or not they actually believe in the Goddess"? Did y'all miss that Jeralt and Claude both got really worried someone might overhear them expressing their displeasure because of the consequences?

How about Claude actually getting worried that someone in Byleth's position not believing in the Goddess could spell trouble for them?

Remember how Byleth and Jeralt were both forced to work for the church with no regards to the wishes either of them? Or how Jeralt of all people was too scared to run from the knights?

Need I remind you that Claude specifically asked Byleth along to the roundtable meeting because "most of the Lords are devout followers of Seiros"?

If you wanna like her, fine, I like her too. But the way she shaped Fódlan is fucked up beyond belief and also, comparing a fictional religion to real life Christians not getting the "love thy neighbor" part of the Bible? Not the place, my dude.

[randomnameless]

I think there's another element that just screams why Wilhelm's meritocracy failed. Nemesis and the Elites weren't just viewed as heroes, their weapons were viewed as sacred and people followed their example by killing and stealing to increase their own power. The Empire were viewed as zealots by their people, people which Wilhelm then took into his power. These people believed in an ideology that seems to have viewed Agarthans as gods, their belief systems are going to align with that ideology and while some might have bent the knee and some might have fled, others might have just paid lip service to the new religion in order to maintain their own power (much like Lorenz says they do in the present).

This whole discussion also seems to make what Wilhelm did not much better than Edelgard's "I'll conquer lands and kill any leaders who don't bend the knee," and irony is coming to bite Rhea in the ass by a descendant who champions the same beliefs she fought against But on the other hand, their intents were different. Wilhelm wanted unification to end the bloodshed and stealing, bringing peace to Fodlan. Edelgard broke the peace to bring those ways back and increase her own power, completing the moral decline and becoming everything the Empire was supposed to be against.

TBF,

Both Wilhelm and Supreme Leader start wars of conquest, so there are some similarities, but as you said, intent was different.

Which might explain why there were - if we follow this theory/hc - why there was no civil war in WoH Adrestia, when Tru Piss ends up with dealing with "unrest", in the Tru Piss situation, instead of appointing Leopold as the governer of Leicester, Willy could have appointed Gloucester Sr and conscripted part of his troops in the Adrestian War Effort.

The "bend the knee or die" behaviour from Supreme Leader comes from her wish to be the only, well, "Supreme Leader" of Fodlan and/or as explained in FE16, try to replace Sothis/the CoS in Fodlan by herself.

I guess in the WoH's situation, it was either "side with us or with nemesis", with the added twist that siding with Nemesis meant being an inherent threat to Adrestia (if might makes right), the CoS's teachings and Nabateans themselves - I'd say Willy was paranoiac but who wouldn't be if they had to deal with this situation : siding with Nemesis means possibly learning how to make Relics and that's, imo in this theory, the one thing Wilhelm wants to avoid at all costs.

Like, siding with Nemesis would have meant those people want to continue to kill/pillage/burn because "they're strong so they can do it", and possibly turn against Wilhelm's trusted allies (if not more! like, possibly, his own son!) to turn them in shiny weapons to become even "stronger".

In the end, it doesn't matter, because subjugation is subjugation, but if Willy doesn't want to MAGA - or isn't as obsessed with it as his most well-known scion - but only to kill Nemesis and make Fodlan a peaceful land where Nabateans can exist, I could see Adrestian occupation being "lighter" then, say, what happens in Firdhiad during AM.

Thinking about this though, I wonder if Rhea mediating and ackowledging the Kingdom's existence isn't a way to "make up" for Willy's subjugation - sure maybe he wasn't the one to consider northerners as subhumans, but this situation still happened because Adrestia conquered those lands and those people - and restoring their autonomy to those people, with, of course, the constant presence of the Church to "guide" them in the right course of action, and not start to, again, kill/pillage/burn because they're stronger and maybe find the sleeping Cethleann to vivisect her.

Of course it's ironic, because even with the Western Church, it's the Kingdom who supports and helps her and more or less adopted Willy's ideas about what a noble should be (not someone holing themselves in the capital!) when Adrestia fell apart in 7 years !

---

Willy's conquest is fascinating to me, because no matter how hard I try to spin it, there's still the issue - not tackled by the Fodlan games of course - of Nabateans and Relics : humans, during the WoH, know how to craft Relics, and what material they should use (I doubt Rhea'n'the Saints used hair dye for fun) - how do you remove this "knowledge" from humans, especially the ones following Nemesis who were depicted as greedy and power hungry?

Even if he might have had the best intentions (restore peace to the land, and support the Nabateans) Wilhelm had to deal with this issue -> which ultimately led to the "bend the knee (and remain ignorant about relics) or (possibly learn how to make relics and) die", it sucks, but it might have been the solution he found to solve this riddle.

So, in a way, given how the Empire was founded on a "bend the knee or die" as all Empires are, imo, Adrestia was bound to decline, even if I think Nabatean influence would have slowed it tremendously, and, say, made Enbarrites not consider Northeners as livestock (so maybe everyone could have coexisted "peacefully" a bit longer).

As for the people who joined Willy (thus bent the knee) -

Given how Adrestia at inception was nothing and the Empire had no Relics nor crested kickass warriors like Nemesis (sure, Seiros is a thing, but there's 1 Seiros and 4 Saints for 11 Elites and Nemesis!), I wonder if the people who joined Adrestia at first weren't joining the "weakest" horse, thus had to let go of their "might makes right" motto.

I also think the CoS helped a lot to smoothen things between conqueror and conquered - maybe by offering relief and helping rebuild the conquered lands, something that would be impossible in Nemesis' land (why the winners, aka, the strong, help the weak?) - and the Empire banked on the CoS's good PR to be more easily accepted by the people?

As for the ones who paid lip service, well, they might have existed lol, but I'd say, learning Nemesis keeps on losing (even if he is the strongest) when he's fighting someone who doesn't even have a relic (tfw people think Wilhelm is the one fighting Nemesis and not Rhea!) might have made them reconsider the Agarthan's pov and what they were really believing in - if Gods gave Nemesis'n'co their weapons, why is a loser like Wilhelm, not blessed by the same "gods", able to defeat them?

Maybe the God from the Seiros Faith is stronger than the Gods who blessed Nemesis? So the Seiros Faith is the real deal?

[randomnameless]

Same anon who sent the ask about the western church and the holy sites in the kingdom.

If I recall correctly the holy sites are under the central churchs control and the noble who controls the territory that the holy sites are located in wants to be on good terms with the central church... so I'm going to assume Rhea Seteth and co shouldn't have much issues going there whenever they want.

That said I think there were complaints from others (not central church?) who found the noble controlling this territory annoying because anyone who wants to visit this holy site would probably need to pay a toll or something just to get there. This is all from memory though !

Ok so totally different topic but in regards to your other post I think the reason why Wilhelm took so long to unify Fodlan was because he and Seiros had to actually put in the work to unify Fodlan and create a national identity.

Edelgard has it waaay easier because she's not doing this from scratch like they did. She's merely building on top of the foundation Willy and Rhea already built.

Ooh!

I'll need to wait for PK to add the rest of the Nopes's script lol!

But yeah, even if the world and Nopes in general is against Nabateans, at least the Kingdom is constant (save for Zahras) as a neutral/allied state, aka they're not dicks to Nabateans and the Central Church for no reason like Adrestia and Nopes!Leicester. But if the noble in charge of those territories change and is, imagine, Lonato, it'd create more difficulties...

I know tolls and taxes don't make for a compelling game, but this tidbit about the local noble collecting tolls to go to those sites for pilgrims could be a point of discordance between the Kingdom and the Central Church - nowhere do we learn (iirc?) that Garreg Mach's entry needs a fee, so I don't think the Central Church wants people to pay tolls to access to their holy sites, maybe it'd annoy them to see a noble, in their mind, abusing the situation to make money out of something that's supposed to be free ? And the Noble could say he needs that money as some sort of "rent" the Church has to give him because their sites are in his territory, or pretend those tolls are used for maintenance or safeguarding the sites, idk....

As for the Willy conquest...

IDK if they built a real identity or something, given how later around Adrestia fodders northerners to beasts but yeah, maybe they wanted to make sure the newly conquered lands became "part of Adrestia" before moving forward - as opposed to Supreme Leader walking in Leicester, removing Clout, appointing Leopold "I never use my brain!" von Bergliez as the "governor" of that place and moving up north.

We know Supreme Leader's real armor is her plot armor, but somehow we're supposed to believe while "Uncle made her" execute Dimitri, no one from Leicester moved up to get rid of Leopold and march on Enbarr from the Alliance?

TBH I wouldn't say Supreme Leader is building on what Willy did, since Leicester and Faerghus since the WoH became independant states and built, I suppose, their own culture and national identity, but she's supposedly using this to fold them all back into Adrestia, and everyone is happy and sings kumbaya.

OTOH, I think post SS!Billy is in the same shoes, there's no one so they'll unify Fodlan, but contrary to the WoH, Billy isn't supposed to wage war to unify the continent - Supreme Leader already did that - and it's more of a "by default" thing (at least the game sells it like this, but I've already talked about the game's unification boner and how it sucks).

[dmclemblems]

One thing that is bugging the hell outta me is why Clyde's thought process of "getting rid of the Church will disincentivize Edel/gard from further attempts at getting to Leicester" makes no sense to me on a meta level. Like, as players of 3H.

Edel/gard is (supposedly) only trying to conquer the Alliance to create a beeline from the Empire to Garreg Mach, right? That place that Edel/gard... already forced Rhea out of at this point in time... and has complete control over on CF when she does the same thing there. Without needing to conquer Leicester first.

Was there, like, just an explanation I missed as to why Edel/gard doesn't just set up base at Garreg Mach and have Hubert take care of Adrestia's rowdy nobles with his Forceful Persuasion Tactics? That thing she shows no care about him using, and are shown to be pretty damn effective? In 3H she had no need of conquering the Alliance other than imperialism being her motivation so it made sense there, but Hopes gives her an explanation that isn't making that much sense to me? Unless I missed something lol

Also in SB! She conquered GM before attacking Leicester. In the sense of needing to reach GM in the middle of the war it would be good to have Leicester territory under her control so they could come and go as they need to, but that's the only reason I can think of for her to use as an excuse or a secondary reasoning other than conquering Fodlan itself (which is of course her goal, so attacking Leicester serves both the purpose of conquest and getting her a quicker route to GM). Like, conquering is still her goal in Hopes, so all I can guess that that is is something helpful that made her decide to attack Leicester first and with a stronger force (that that is is, lel, English).

I assume she didn't set up base at GM because she was needed in Adrestia or at the respective camp at the time to command her forces, but that is of course just speculation on my part and wasn't confirmed within the game). Even if Hubert could manage the nobles, I imagine she would want to be present to rally her forces. Also, technically, she's safest in Adrestia.

If she remained at GM, I think it would be a logical thought that Rhea would attempt to get it back and thus that could put her in danger at any time. As long as she's residing in a location that's a taken base from her enemy, there's always the possibility that they'll attack to get it back. If she was with her own troops and not directly within taken enemy territory for a long period of time, it spares her the risk of an enemy locating her because they won't know exactly where she is at all times. If she stayed in GM, all her enemies would know exactly where she was if it got out even once.

Imo it doesn't help her to be stationary in a place that she already conquered, because that opens her, personally, up to attack much easier. If she gets attacked and is killed, the war is over. If GM gets attacked and retaken because she wasn't there, she's still alive and continuing her war, so the possibility of recapturing GM remains. No matter how many times GM gets retaken by the Church, as long as Edelgard is alive and she has enough troops left, she can always have the chance of getting it back, versus staying there and playing defense and offense at the same time.

Normally she is defending GM at the same time as attacking the other territories, but losing the defense matters a lot less when she wasn't lost in the process. If she's not there, the war goes on and the Church can reclaim GM, but they'll always be aware that she's still alive to attack again. Now that puts them on the defensive and she's not in a bad position, but they are. They know they'll be attacked at any time, but they don't know when. She's be in the same situation if she remained there.

Technically using Leicester as a quick method to get there would make sense, so my guess is just that it made it easier to reach GM if and when needed. Since she took over GM already, I would think she'd want to be ready to reinforce it if the Church attacked to get it back. It would make sense that she'd want to still reinforce GM with more troops even if not including herself personally, so she'd want an easier method to get there.

Basically she wants to conquer Fodlan anyway, so attacking Leicester first with a heavier force than she attacked Faerghus with would give her double benefit (conquer+beeline). Also, Faerghus was dealing with Cornelia at that time, so not only were they occupied with TWS, but that spares Edelgard's necessity of sending more troops to attack them. Someone else is already attacking them, which makes her job easier enough that she can focus more on Leicester (which is noticeable because she attacks all of Leicester, versus only really attacking the western front in Faerghus. She didn't reinforce the western front either until after Cornelia was dealt with, which the latter would've freed up a lot of Faerghus' fighting force).

As far as I understand it, it just had more benefit to try to overtake Leicester aside from just conquering Fodlan (thus attacking it harder than Faerghus at first), since she'd already taken GM and it'd be easier to reinforce it in case of attack if they had Leicester under their control. Staying in GM as per my personal speculation was a lot more of a risk to her safety, especially when she could try to overtake Leicester and go through it to reach GM quickly as needed. Doing it this way would keep her safer while also keeping GM within reach.

Also, if Claude was allied with Edelgard and defeated Rhea, GM wouldn’t be at risk of counterattack anymore. It would, in his theory, make her figure that GM is safe and she doesn’t need to conquer Leicester to get there because she can pass through freely now and/or doesn’t need to fight for GM anymore (presumably, i.e. they might still raise their weapons to avenge Rhea and retake the Church, especially with Seteth still alive). Basically, it’s like, “if you need Leicester to get there to fight Rhea at any point, if we kill her now you won’t need to conquer Leicester to get there”. It somewhat works... if you don’t consider that Seteth might rally the Church again or that Edelgard is actually going to try to attack them again anyway for conquest.

[randomnameless]

What are your top 5 "Rhea bAd" arguments?

Ooh!

5. FaIr TrIaL

Like, even in real life different countries have different views on what is a fair trial from what is not, but applying this notion to a video game who isn't concerned with this issue at all? Just to defend a fave? Next what, Rhea's importing food so she is participating to the Global Warming since the Fodlan delivery guy used CO2 to give her her precious Albinean berries?

Someone made a joke about her baking cookies and Supreme Leader calling her a horrible woman because she used flour, thus cannot be eaten by people with diabetes and I'm just... WTF

4. Rhea and Supreme Leader are fighting for DifFeReNt IdEaLs and she wants to preserves the StAtUs QuO

Rhea's fighting to protect the people living in her home, and to protect her family from mole men and a lost eaglet hell bent on deboning her and making shiny daggers from her remains.

Rhea thinks Sothis is the only one qualified to rule over Fodlan, but while she's working on her plans, she's not running around smacking people right and left for ruling Fodlan (or their part of Fodlan) in Sothis's stead.

We know Rhea didn't oppose nor sent her "sekrit army" against Leicester, which is way more "modern" than Adrestia can ever hope to be, but apparently no one cares about them. By virtue of having a republic (oligarchy?) the Church has less pull on the Alliance, thus Rhea's power is reduced to nothingness, and yet she dgaf

But I'm pretty sure this nonsense comes from the NoA sponsorised (tm) RhEa RuLeS OvEr FoDlAn...

Which was debunked to oblivion, and the game somehow seems to acknowledge Rhea has to make amends for, uh, not taking "enough" care of Fodlan when she could - is "United Fodlan 5 ever" telling us Rhea shouldn't have let Faerghus, Leicester and even Adrestia take their own decisions but should have ruled in their stead?

3. Rhea experimented on HuMaNs

This is less about giving her blood to Jerry to save him, but the whole Citrus'n'Billy issue -

Rhea creating homonculi is kind of meh, but we've posted a lot recently about what happened with Billy and how those arguments that turn about "women have no rights Rhea should have Jerry if she was allowed to save bby!billy bcs Jerry has a dick so his opinion overides Citrus's" - but it's always a kind of fallacy to compare her to Uncle dearest, and the mole people, and to create some sort of bond between Supreme Leader and Plank.

And it always fails, no matter what.

2. Rhea StArTeD a WaR and WaR bAd!

Ignoring Willy for a second...

And the fact we still don't know, to this day, how and why the War of Heroes happened...

Rhea "started" a war to get rid of the maniac who slaughtered her family to get power, brought Fodlan to ruin and would most likely slaughter her and what remains of her race if he discovered her pointy ears.

"BuT sHe CoUlD hAvE lEfT fOdLaN"

I am not sure telling someone, who is targeted because of her race, to run away and hide and never return to her home - bcs she was born in Fodlan and doesn't come from space unlike her mom - is the most sensible thing to do.

Again, this is done to draw false equivalences between Supreme Leader and Rhea, one fights a war to unify the continent and make Adrestia Great Again under her Supreme Leadership, the other started a war to get rid of Nemesis and secure a right to live for her and her family in the world that saw their births.

This is not comparable.

1. Rhea HaTeS hUmAnS

I won't tackle the old zeta post about Rhea sekritly despising nabateans because her sekrit history apparently makes them more of a target than... revealing the truth (I confess I only skimmed it, it was just so nonsensical and from 2019)

But Rhea hating humans?

When she reveals her identity twice to protect them? When she shelters them in her own home? When half of her miseries are cause by the duty she feels to those people and her inability to be a "good" guide - when she has none! - because she cares about them?

"But in Tru Piss she says she HaTeS hUmAnItY"

No she never says so, she replies to Edel with "nonsense". In Tru Piss humanity keeps on trying to slaughter her for the very serious offence of having pointy ears, but she still doesn't hate them, she is angry and sad and upset it's her second line! (not NoA approved :( ) because humans are again, betraying her and her mother -

why would she be so upset if she only hated them?

Tru Piss is the route where she meets Nemesis Jr and tells to her face she cared a lot about her ancestor and feels bad for killing his scion + she worries about "not just kill but murder women" Dimitri, his safety and is distraught when he dies (not NoA approved :( ).

Tru Piss is the route where it shines the most : Rhea loves humans, but Humans want to make golden trinkets from her bones :(

0. (because i can) Cherami Leigh does a splendid work as Rhea

Fuck Pat

Whoever wants to play too is welcome!