#like buying from backyard breeders is bad. morally bad

[oscargender]

Idk unpopular opinion but. Buying a puppy from a responsible breeder who doesn’t allow any dog they’ve bred to end up in a shelter is a morally neutral act

[spywitch]

I love how the bleeding heart pibble adopt don’t shop people are simultaniously like “Its all in how you raise and socialize a dog!” while also being like “You’re a bad person for wanting to buy a puppy to raise and socialize yourself instead of adopting a dog that likely had a rough upbringing.”

Like they want to deny genetic factors so much and say they barely have any impact. But while its true that socialization also has a major impact, many of the major windows for socialization are very young. Even if you adopt a 6 month old puppy, or even an 8 week old from the shelter, the trauma and/or lack of exposure and socialization from whatever their life was before then still can have a major impact later on. Of course you’re doing a wonderful thing by saving those dogs, but it is more likely you may have a bit more work cut out for you undoing the effects both poor genetics and a rough start at life. It might be really minor issues or it could be a big problem, but either way a shelter dog just isn’t as easy to predict as a well bred dog. Different families have different needs from their dog, and they aren’t like morally responsible to clean up the shelter crisis that irresponsible breeders and owners have created. As long as they aren’t supporting puppy mills and backyard breeders, and only buy from ethical breeders who keep track of all their dogs and make sure they never end up in a shelter, they are not contributing to the problem and aren’t bad people for wanting a dog thats more genetically AND socialization-wise more reliable

[wheremyscalesslither]

What do you think of the opinion that reptiles shouldn't be kept at all since they're not (and impossible to become) domesticated? Idk if you've heard abt the blog @/zoologicallyobssessed but they seem pretty steadfast in that opinion. Not trying to start anything, just as someone who wants the best for their animals I'm curious of what informed reptile keepers like you think. I've asked a friend that's a vet and they think keeping reptiles is ok, but I was wondering on your view on the opinion

Im betting there is more to the "reptiles shouldnt be kept in captivity because they're wild" statement, but I didnt find anything about it on their blog.

That's someone's views out there though, even if not that specific blogger's, so here's info anyway.

that's simplistic and ignorant. First off, why just reptiles? Many other species are quite poorly suited for human care- it doesnt matter if they're reptiles or mammals or fish (👀 looking at you betta community) or peacocks. Aside from that, we cannot learn to keep these animals properly if we choose not to keep them at all and not keeping reptiles is not an option, not only because reptile keeping is already established, and saying "reptiles shouldnt be kept in captivity" would probably mean euthanizing thousands, if not millions? Of animals. Not to mention, if we don't keep them, some will become extinct, leading to my second point:

Saying a wild animal shouldnt be kept in captivity because they are wild ignores all the work being done in conservation. Private entities are almost the sole contributors to reestablishing wild populations of reptiles, with very scant exceptions of some actual dedicated facilities doing the work. I want to say it was the indigo snake that has most recently been a great example of how important the private breeding realm is for reptiles. I'm probably confusing my species but basically it all began from one private breeder who saw the species declining rapidly, and brought it to the public attention and started making his owns strides to save the species before getting conservation initiatives to help. He obtained permission to reintroduce the species to locations and bring the populations back. That's basically the story with every reptile reintroduction. I can promise you, theres nearly no funding in conservation to begin with and people arent really donating to things like "save the Gila monster!" Or whatever. (YET! Reptiles are starting to become more popular)

I wanted to make the argument against myself that current common reptile keeping is super gross and promotes minimal care for no benefit to the animal, but that can reasonably said about every animal, including the domestic ones. How many people regularly get their dog/cat dental care? Buy from responsible breeders vs backyard/craigslist breeders? Learn dog behavior so their toddler doesnt end up at the pointy end of a furball? Bad keepers are bad keepers in any species. It's not the type of animal that is the problem. (But the problem probably is at least partially due to capitalism promoting pets as a necessity for every family, but that's another convo for another time)

When all is said and done though, on a personal level, I could care less about what a random blog thinks about my hobbies. I keep and breed snakes because I find enjoyment in it. There is 0 scientific value in what I do, unless I started writing case studies or something lol. I'm for damn sure not breeding for conservation 🤣 (YET). At some point, you just gotta decide for yourself where your morals/ethics/whatever are and be unapologetic about the way you live, assuming it's not taking advantage of a living critter (be a responsible keeper, yknow? Always aim for and promote better care). Reptile keeping isnt inherently troublesome. But then again, asking a reptile breeding/keeping blog if they think keeping reptiles in captivity is okay kind of feels like asking a candy manufacturer if they feel bad causing sugar addiction hahaha

[baronfulmen]

A year ago today, in the wake of the Pulse nightclub shooting, I lost my shit on Facebook.  I have still not found my shit, and I believe it is gone forever.

I used to try and have conversations with the pro-gun crowd where I would be reasonable and calm and look for areas of compromise and try to hear and understand their point of view.  Certainly there were some things they said that I did and still do agree with - for example, that many of the attempts at gun control legislation are targeting features that are essentially cosmetic or otherwise manage to proclaim that the folks who wrote the legislation either don't know or don't care how guns actually work.  But in general, I ran into way too many arguments that were hateful, cowardly, selfish, and stupid - and all this while watching the number of shootings climb predictably higher every day.

So I lost it, and said I was done with reasonable conversations and if they want a boogeyman that's going to come and take their guns then fine, that can be me.  I'm coming for your guns.  I want to replace the second amendment with a wet fart noise and a photo of my middle finger.  Show me where to sign, I'll ban everything from machine guns to starter pistols.  I'm done with calm and reasonable discourse, because every time I tried it got me less than nowhere.

And, guys, let's be honest.  Yes this is me having a temper tantrum - a well earned one, I would argue.  But who cares?  Do you really think that it's actually going to happen?  Do you really think that America (you already knew I'm an American because I mentioned an epidemic of mass shootings and guess where that's a thing?) is going to out of nowhere after all this time come door to door and take all your precious guns?  Of course not.  You are never in any actual danger of losing your murder tools. But anyway, I wanted to document some of the worst pro-gun arguments, the ones that made me just give up on any kind of reasoned discourse:

1.  THE SECOND AMENDMENT!!!!!1!!! Like, that's it.  That's the whole argument.  I could get into a big debate about how different the circumstances were back then, or what the original intent of the 2nd amendment was, but no.  The fundamental problem with people that incoherently yell this is that they think the 2nd amendment existing is in and of itself a moral argument in its own favor.  Guys that is total batshit insanity.  "I should be allowed to do this because I'm allowed to do this" is not an actual functional argument, as it applies to any situation where slavery or child prostitution or whatever is legal.  Being allowed doesn't mean it SHOULD be allowed.  Go fuck yourself.

2.  If we don't have guns, we're all going to get killed by people with guns! There's an easy way to test this.  Let's look at other countries where they don't have guns.  Huh.  That's strange.  Looks like there are way less people getting shot to hell over there.  They don't have all these mass shootings for some reason, nor do they have widespread nightly murders by gun.  It's almost like your argument is a stupid counterfactual shit heap. Go fuck yourself.

3.  Okay fine but look at the number of stabbings over there, you want to outlaw knives too? Yes let's look at those numbers!  Please!  What's that?  Mass stabbings are less common and kill less people per incident because it's harder to mass stab a bunch of people to death?  Strange I would not have expected this oh wait.  I mean, yeah, it is not some amazing news flash that humans will find some way to harm each other.  That doesn't mean we should immediately throw up our hands and start distributing flamethrowers. Go fuck yourself.

4.  I need guns to defend my freedom from our tyrannical government! The funniest part about this is that it's always said by people who are not remotely oppressed by our society and who don't seem very vocal about defending those who are.  Shouldn't they be taking up arms against all the police that murder black people?  No?  Interesting.  Really this is a transparent power fantasy where they imagine that they're super important defenders of freedom and masturbate to the image of the government coming for them so they can be the valiant hero.  This is the same as a nerdy picked-on kid reading books like Harry Potter and wishing they could be some sort of chosen one except that the latter is harmless escapist fantasy and the former is nutjobs wielding actual murder devices.  I guess the better comparison would be someone literally dressing like a wizard all the time and hoping his parents will lock him in a closet so that he can blow things up with magic.  Go write a book or play some sort of militia-themed role playing game or something.  Living your stupid fantasy in real life is not healthy.  You're not going to overthrow the government, dumbass. Go fuck yourself.

5.  If you try to take my guns I will have to kill you, and murder is bad therefore you should let me keep my guns. Yes this is a real thing I have been told.  Just typing it out caused a nosebleed from the overload of stupidity, so I need to address this quickly lest it cause a fatal brain hemorrhage.  This stupid argument works for literally anything I'm willing to murder someone over.  Let's try it with slaves!  "You can't take my slaves away or I'll have to murder you, and murder is bad" yeah shit there goes the nosebleed again.  This is the worst and dumbest argument.  "Hi I am a dangerous psychopath so I should be allowed to do and have whatever I want" is not a way to run a society. Go fuck yourself.

6.  I can make my own gun, so you shouldn't ban any of them! Okay cool story!  It's not really news, even before we had all sorts of 3d printers and stuff it was trivial to make a super shitty gun.  But guess what else?  I can make bombs.  I can make a breeder reactor in my backyard - don't make that illegal just buy my neighbors some lead undergarments.  Hey guys, exciting news!  Anything dangerous you can make in your garage is now 100% legal!  Wheeeeee! Go fuck yourself.

7.  I want them therefore I should be able to have them because FREEDOM. I want to think of a clever way to say 'go fuck yourself' but I don't really feel like this 'argument' deserves even that minimal level of thought on my part.  So, go fuck yourself!  If you don't understand why this is an idiotic argument then there is no hope for you.  Convince yourself that I hate freedom or whatever, that's fine.  You're an idiot. You know yourself? Go fuck that.

FINAL THOUGHTS If anyone is like "Hey, Baron Fulmen, you were really rude and dismissive and isn't it a bit hypocritical to say these are bad arguments but then respond to them with things like 'go fuck yourself' which is in and of itself not a real counter-argument?" then holy shit have you missed the goddamn point.  This is me saying that I have given up on these gun-fondling assholes, I am venting about the observed inability to have a productive conversation when I *don't* just tell them to go fuck themselves, and I am saying that if the result is going to be the same either way I might as well tell them they're idiots that can eat a sack of fermented skunk shit.  I can no longer care about being friendly with people that value their murder-toys more than the lives of their fellow human beings.

And yes, to you out there all ready to raise your hand and be the gentle and reasonable voice of compassion that argues for calm discourse because these folks have been mislead by powers greater than themselves, I do understand the impact of fear and misinformation and insecurity and how the gun lobby and other forces manipulate people to... whatever.  Fuck it.  Don't care anymore.  Go have that conversation elsewhere, this is a place to tell people who can watch the endless parade of victims of gun violence and say 'worth it' to die in a fire.

Thanks.  I now return you to your usual program consisting of cute animal GIFs and shitty short stories.

[animalsinhumansociey-blog]

“Pets”

by Karina Morales

When I was visiting my friend that attends UC Berkeley, he showed us around the co-op he used to live in which was covered in paintings that residents made. Some paintings were about different human rights or political movements, recreations of famous paintings, and random animations. This is one of the paintings that was about animal rights that resonated with me. The quote painted by the pig is something that could also be said about the human race; this type of logic might make people more empathetic towards nonhuman animals. It made me think about how “pets” are treated more equal than other animals. 

My first “pet” was a chick. I was only five years old and my school thought it was a good idea to send us home with a chick from an animal feed store. We went there as a field trip. It is only a faint memory, but I remember being amazed at seeing animals up close. There were rabbits and chicks in small cages. They handed out chicks to us as if they were a cute toy. We were all excited because we saw it as an opportunity to be responsible. I remember keeping the chick inside a shoe box with a santa hat for warmth meanwhile we got the adequate things. We eventually got a cage and left the chick outside during the day. One day I came home from school to find the chick had died because we left the cage outdoors on a cold day. I don’t remember how long I had the chick for but I remember feeling very sad. It was shocking because it was my first time encountering death. This was the beginning of seeing animals as alive and capable of dying. Looking back, I don’t think I even knew at that age that the chick would become a chicken one day and even less that that is where meat I ate came from.

My second “pet” was a dog my parents got me as a christmas gift when I was six years old. I was excited because I had wanted a dog for a while. I remember thinking it was funny that he had a plush Taco Bell Chihuahua because he was a Chihuahua too. Once, a neighbor stole him from our backyard and my dad and I had to go take him back. He lived in our backyard and ran away multiple times but usually came back, except that last time he went missing. My parents did not look for him and assumed that someone else took him in or that he had died. We only had him for a year. I recently read a post about giving “pets” as surprise gifts. Although my parents assumed all the responsibilities over the dogs they gifted me, the post reminded me of that. The post was a reply to a person who was selling a puppy because they had given him to her little sister as a surprise gift. The sister did not want him after a couple days because he wasn’t potty trained. There were many comments on the post saying that people should not give animals as surprise gifts because they don’t know if the recipient is going to be prepared for the responsability or not. Some comments talked about how “pets” are easily seen as disposable, with people thinking its okay to take “pets” to shelters once they don’t give them satisfaction anymore. It made me even more upset because the puppy was a pit bull and I had recently learned about how pit bulls are mistreated, taken to shelters, and euthanized at much higher rates than other breeds. A lot of times they get killed as soon as they are taken to shelters because they assume that no one will adopt them because of the stereotype that they are inherently more aggressive. It is very sad that pit bulls continue to be  bred when there are a lot of pit bulls that are not wanted anymore or that never get the chance to find a new family. The post also discussed the absurd dynamics about people putting animals in gift boxes when they gift them, reinforcing the commodification of “pets”.

I later had a betta fish when I was nine years old. I renamed him multiple times, including Rainbow and Homer after Homer Simpson. He lived to be about three years which at the moment we thought was a long time for fish to be alive, maybe compared to other fish. As I was writing this post, I researched betta fish and learned that they are much more complex than I thought. They can live up to ten years with proper care which was surprising to me because I had never hear about fish living that long. I also learned that you need a lot of materials to take care of a better fish including: water softener, water filter, live plants, carnivorous food, water heater and thermostat, and a tank that is at least 5 gallons. Distilled water is bad for them because it doesn’t have the minerals and nutrients they are used to living in. Unfiltered water is also bad because it has chlorine and other  we got him at the pet store, he came in a tiny cup of water. There were many betta fish like that and I don’t know how long they would stay like that for. I think storing fish like that at pet stores makes it seem like their expectations are very low because it couldn’t get much worse than that. We kept him in a small bowl similar to the ones you see goldfish in on TV. We used tap water and exchanged the water often since we didn’t use a filter. We fed him flake food that was supposed to be for beta fish but now I know they don’t like that. I also learned that they can be very picky eaters and even refuse to eat. Their fins are very delicate, which is one of the reasons why you are supposed to use fresh plants as opposed to hard artificial plants. Beta fish can end up having extra long fins due to selective breeding which they see as a hinderance and but sometimes trim parts of their fins off. According to Wikihow, they are very curious and often develop a bond with their caregiver (that they learn to recognize). They can learn “tricks” and play games and they enjoy looking at pictures and watching TV. All these things were surprising to me because I was conditioned to believe that fish are not smart or aware of their surroundings because they seem to just swim around aimlessly. I think that is part of the reason why people are more likely to stop consuming other animal products but still consume “seafood” because it implies that they are not as sentient as other animals. I think we are also conditioned to believe that the smaller an animal is, the smaller chance of it being intelligent. Wikihow also talks about betta fish being “enjoyable to watch and spend time with” and such things, which makes me feel that people have fish as pets because they are “nice to look at”. This can be seen in businesses and restaurants having aquariums full of colorful fish. It is also very sad when goldfish are given away as a prize in carnival games or used to “race” each other buy humans choosing one and propelling it by blowing air toward them with a straw at bars. I would not buy fish anymore but at least now I would be able to research what an animal needs so I could take care of them properly.

I later purchased a leapoard encrusted gecko that we named Rango. This time I was nineteen and old enough to research everything I needed to buy to properly take care of him. I looked up the specific environment they needed because they are native to tropical areas. This required a specific temperature and humidity at all times. My brother and I would let him out of his terrarium and he would hop on us. At the time, I got him because I liked animals so I saw it as a good thing to do, without realizing that it was actually selfish. I think the only time it really is nice to get an animals is if it is a rescue otherwise you are promoting breeding. I haven't researched the effects of bringing “exotic pets” to the US but I can imagine that it has a strong negative impact on ecosystems and on local people. He only lived about a year even though we followed the care regime which goes to show that “pets” can’t thrive in unnatural conditions regardless of how much we manipulate them. I know have a dog that we got since he was a puppy, he is nine years old now. We bought him in Mexico from breeders that claimed that he was pure-breed schnauzer. I was 11 years old and did not understand people’s obsession with buying “pure-bred” dogs. They kept him and the other puppies on a large rooftop. I had never seen so many dogs together which made me realize that they each have different personalities. After buying him, my dad sent him somewhere to cut his tail off because that was something you were “supposed” to do similar to trimming certain dog’s ears. He assured me that it didn’t hurt because he was still tender since he was a puppy. We brought him to the US and I would like to think that he is happy. He has a huge backyard to play in and move comfortably. He isn’t allowed to be an indoor dog but we sneak him in at night during the winter months. I like that we never taught him to do tricks or use him for entertainment. Having Chester definetely made it undeniable that dogs understand emotions. I don’t think I will ever have any animals living with me, but if I do I would make sure they are rescue animals.