#like in the sonic the fighters arc

[mischeva]

haha….. reference

[rubywolf0201]

Some dumbass: “Why didn’t Elise just outrun Eggman’s robots?”

Me: “Because Elise would be shot at the spot the moment she tried to make a move. Also she was surrounded. What do you want her to do?”

Said dumbass: “Elise should’ve punched Eggman in the face!”

Me: “That…would’ve OOC for Elise to do so because she doesn’t have any formal training to defend herself. Also, she doesn’t need any superpowers or be some Lara Croft expy to improve. Elise is fine just the way she is.

[spiderman616]

They should’ve adapted 06 so Sally could meet Elise

archie canon accurate 06 adaptation would honestly be p.d.s. (pretty darn sick) instead of whatever bullshit cse explanation there was. stuff such as the ixis masterworks/silver's time travel/chaos emerald situation/soleanna's relation to the overlander lore/etc etc. i know the bare minimum oabout 06's plot but if you send me enough death threats i might try to write a proper adaptation of it thats fully archie based

[resurgencee]

OOC: You know, I'm re-reading Surge/Kit's introduction arc and I'm noticing something

long winded rambling ahead!

That if Sonic had actually stopped and listened to what Surge was saying when they both initally meet, I feel like Surge could've possibly been reasoned with. Especially when you take into account that that's what's hes done previously with former foes who were able to be talked down like this.

Surge had Starline's personal opinion on Sonic practically forced on her and that's basically all that she knew as that was all that she was told and taught about him. If Sonic was allowed to give her an ounce of empathy at the -start- of this arc, rather than at the end, they could've been on a path towards a solution. Instead, Sonic actually does what Starline did and completely went on to ignore her thinly-vieled vent in regards to what happened to her because of his (I don't wanna say carelessness, more so along the lines of...naviety?) view on second chances, and patronizes her in regards to his "solution" to his problem: telling her she has a "choice" to choose how she carries herself while also telling her in no uncertain terms that she either does it his way (aka: have another person impose his will on her) or he's not going to pull his punches if she chooses poorly (lowkey threatens her really). And repeatedly insists on this with every encounter they have after.

this goes on to reaffirm Surge in her belief's on what Starline forcibly taught her, and her own personal trauma in regards to her "creation" that she's extremely but clearly Not Very Ok about. It essentially just pushes her over the edge of no return and solidifies her resolve to see the world burn, because it BURNED her.

After Sonic learns the gravity of what Starline did, and only after, is when he actually stops and tries actually talking to her with a semblance of understanding and empathy. Which means diddly-squat to Surge (and Kit!) because of a horrific first impression that left her feeling like a cornered animal who can't trust anyone, no matter how well meaning, and desperately trying ANYTHING (modding herself with the dynamo cage to the point of risking self harm) to get the slightest reprieve from it all.

TL;DR: this all couldve been avoided if yall got surge and kit therapy after hearing them out >:/

[ponett]

I have now finally seen the Mario movie. It was Pretty Good. Here are my wordy thoughts on it. (I am going to spoil the entire movie. Duh.)

In many ways, the Mario movie does what I wish the first Sonic movie had done. They just took the characters and the premise and the world from the games, and made it a straightforward animated adventure movie. It's bright and colorful and remixes things JUST enough to include fun elements from multiple games, and it doesn't make Mario get adopted by James Marsden or whatever. It even has the music!

That's all you really need, right? Right...?

I'll get this out of the way up front. Chris Pratt was fine. He's fine

If anything, it really feels like they did the movie a disservice by letting us hear so little of the Mario voice in the previews. It took one scene for Pratt to disappear into the role for me. It was totally fine. If anything, I found Charlie Day's normal voice coming out of Luigi WAY more distracting, even if I did like him in the role.

Everyone else was pretty good, for the most part. Jack Black was obviously very good as Bowser, but I'm biased. Seth Rogen does the Seth Rogen laughs as Donkey Kong, but I thought DK was fun, too. (I liked his little rivalry with Mario where he was just constantly giving him shit.) The only casting choice I truly hated was Fred Armisen as Cranky Kong. I hated every line that came out of his mouth. He sounds atrocious. Just the worst. I swear to fucking god if they do a DKC movie and we have to hear him for 90 minutes

I did think Peach was lacking, but that was on the script, not Anya Taylor-Joy's performance. It's cool to see Peach fight, but it's one of those all too common instances where the writers put so much effort into making the main girl kick ass and be an effortlessly confident girlboss that they forgot to give her an actual personality. Not that I'd point to Super Princess Peach and its mood swing superpowers as positive representation or anything, but there's a happy middle ground, surely. Shrek was 22 years ago, just having the princess do flying kung fu kicks isn't enough.

Okay. With the voices out of the way, let's talk about the big picture:

It's way better than the words "Illumination Mario movie" implied, and I mostly enjoyed my time with it. The spirit of Mario is there 100%. But I'd also describe it as "ruthlessly efficient."

This was perhaps the main complaint critics had, and they were absolutely right. People have responded to these totally average reviews with "Well, what did you expect? Shakespeare?! It's MARIO!!" Like, yes, I would prefer it if the movie I paid to see had writing that was good instead of bad. What a shocker. My issue isn't that it's not "high-brow" enough. The problem is that it feels mercenary. It feels like an editor went through and deleted almost every line of dialogue that isn't some form of exposition, at the expense of the pacing. Any scene that's not a montage or some sort of action is kept as short as they could make it, with barely any room for embellishment, character interaction, or anything other than the bare minimum word count to hit all the typical Save the Cat Hollywood screenwriting 101 story beats to the letter. There aren't even as many jokes as you might think (and the ones that are there are extremely hit or miss, including a lot of the slapstick with Mario himself).

Mario and Peach's little arc together in the front half of the film is probably the worst example of this pacing. Even having read reviews that complained about how fast Peach goes from meeting Mario (by her admission the first other human she's ever met) to deciding to train him as the new savior of the Mushroom Kingdom, I was SHOCKED at how fast it was. They don't even lampshade it.

Peach takes Mario straight into the big training sequence where he learns how to use mushrooms and jump over platforming obstacles. Peach is apparently already a hypercompetent platforming pro and a great fighter, so there's no clear reason why she's taking the time to train this random guy to be half as good as her when the world is in danger. Then they set off on their adventure, Toad joins them, and we get a VERY brief travel montage. It's about thirty seconds total - just long enough to give Peach a line about how she wants to protect this beautiful world of hers to try and give her some stakes. We get the genre-mandated nighttime campfire heart to heart, which is exactly long enough to have Mario say he misses Luigi and to have Peach give the two sentence summary of her origin story and not a second longer. Then they reach the Kongs, and their big journey is complete. (They barely interact for the rest of the movie.) So much of the movie is like this - always ready to get on to the next scene as soon as a new one starts.

I'm not criticizing the script because I expect The Super Mario Bros. Movie to be a prestige drama - although there are certainly halfhearted attempts at a dramatic arc. The stuff with Mario's family was a fun enough idea, but again, ruthless efficiency. We get one quick scene with them at the start to give Mario some pathos, because I guess Save the Cat said he's gotta have some pathos. And then Mario gets his dad's approval amidst the action of the final battle in Brooklyn to resolve his arc, just so the movie can end as quickly as possible once Bowser is defeated. (Despite now having the approval of their family and their community back in Brooklyn, Mario and Luigi move to the Mushroom Kingdom off-screen without a single word dedicated to this decision, because that's where they live in the games.)

Look. I am not comparing it to The Godfather. Don't give me that shit. I am not asking for an extra half hour to explore Mario and Luigi's childhood trauma. I am not asking for the complex inner workings of the Mushroom Kingdom monarchy. I know this is gonna be a basic Hero's Journey adventure for kids. It just feels like it's turning down so many opportunities to have a little fun with the characters, to let them interact and play off of each other, to let there be some adventure on this adventure. This is the first time we've gotten to see these characters interact with fully voiced dialogue in a very, very long time! "Yeah, it's not High Art, but it's FUN!" Stories are fun! Character interactions are fun! The script could be having so much more fun!! It is adamantly against making the Story parts of this story-driven movie any more Fun than they functionally need to be!!!

Mario, Peach, and Toad's journey to find the Kongs is shorter than the training montage that precedes it. After the opening, Bowser mostly just sits in his castle and waits for the third act to start. Luigi's there, too, but he only gets one scene with Bowser and then the movie mostly forgets he exists until the climax. He doesn't even get to try and sneak out of Bowser's castle and get up to hijinx. He's just there to be a motivation for Mario, so he sits in a cage for half the movie. It's the bare outline of a script with action scenes added in.

Aside from the fact that it's Jack Black singing as Bowser, I feel like this overly-efficient script might be part of the reason why the "Peaches" scene stands out so much. It's a moment that didn't strictly need to be there to keep the plot moving or to provide an action setpiece. It's not even a reference to another Mario thing. It's just a fun and memorable little character moment that's there for its own sake. That's what the movie needed more of. To stop and smell the roses more often. To play in the space.

To be clear, this isn't a unique problem with this movie. Critics have been noting for years that second acts are disappearing from big Hollywood movies in favor of the Act I plot setup and the Act III action, even though Act II is supposed to be where you get to explore your actual premise. And lots of animated movies give me this exact same vibe of being too "screenwriterly," or feeling like they had an executive breathing down their necks and demanding changes based on focus testing. But these common issues are why I come away mostly feeling like the movie is on the better end of "average," rather than totally blowing my mind. You have seen this movie many times before, just not with Mario in it.

And, of course, there's the music. The score by Brian Tyler based on various classic Mario and Donkey Kong tunes (frustratingly all attributed to Koji Kondo) is absolutely beautiful, but it's unfortunately frequently overshadowed by the licensed music. Everyone already complained about things like the use of Take On Me in place of a lovingly arranged DKC medley, but it feels illustrative of the tug of war the movie is caught in the middle of, between wanting to be a lavishly faithful Mario movie and wanting to be a generic tentpole animated adventure movie. Every single licensed song used is the most obvious, overused song they could have picked for the scene. It reeks of cynical executive meddling and it took me out of the movie every time.

But there really was a lot of care and love put into this movie - more than probably any other video game movie ever made, not that that's a high bar. I don't want to underplay that too much amidst all my complaints spurred by the absolutely insane response to the reviews.

Aside from the countless background references that people will be picking apart for years, touches like the Captain Toad tune playing in the background of Toad's introduction or the Mario Kart 8 menu music playing in the kart garage really help bring it to another level of authenticity. I also enjoyed seeing some more obscure Mario enemies that felt like they were picked more for being fun to animate than for being nostalgic and marketable. No matter how many times I sarcastically pointed to the screen and deadpanned "reference. reference." I am not immune to noticing these things and smiling. I am not immune to the DK Rap. These alone don't make the movie good, but it's nice to have a video game movie that feels like it was made by people who like video games.

Most importantly, the animation is great throughout. It's leaps and bounds ahead of other Illumination work, and it's the best the Mario cast has ever looked. They even made Donkey Kong handsome, somehow. They're all so squishy and expressive, and they move so fluidly - especially in the action scenes. I particularly liked the more kinetic ones like the aerial Banzai Bill chase and the Mario Kart sequence. Truly, the Mad Max-inspired car battle on Rainbow Road where Mario literally does the speedrun shortcut is this movie firing on all cylinders.

Other, more hand-to-hand fights nail the Popeye-esque vibe Mario should be going for. He's an underdog who gets the shit kicked out of him by bigger, stronger opponents until he gets his signature powerup and turns the tables on them. My favorite animation of all probably came from the use of Cat Mario to turn the tide in the DK fight. They had so much fun making Mario move like a cat. Again, it feels like a choice made because it'd be fun to animate rather than just a nostalgia move.

It's that animation and that attention to detail that carry the film, really. They elevate it from mediocrity into being a fun watch for a fan like me, albeit one I couldn't help but pick apart with Anthony as we watched it at home. I'm glad I saw it, but there's a lot of room to improve with the inevitable sequel. I hope they do. I can't deny that I had fun with the movie, but I hope next time that fun is partially because of the script instead of in spite of it.

Stray thoughts:

Overall, I would say I enjoyed the movie a lot more than Sonic 1, but probably not as much as Sonic 2. Not that these movies need to be pitted against each other.

I hated the Luma. I hated how hilarious they clearly thought the Luma was. They have the fucking Luma break the fourth wall to end the movie and start the credits. This is going to be a deep cut for fans of bad animated films, but the whole time I was just thinking of the little fish from Romeo & Juliet: Sealed With A Kiss who's just the director's kid saying random nonsense. You know I'm right

I rolled my eyes at the "our princess is in another castle" joke and several other jokes that would have been dated in a gamer webcomic 20 years ago but I guess they had to be there

How much of Brooklyn did Bowser's giant floating castle take out? We know 9/11 happened in this universe because the Freedom Tower is there, hasn't New York been through enough

I can't believe there's a Diskun easter egg

The dog is the most Illumination character design in the movie. It felt like it wandered on set from The Secret Life of Pets

Mario being a gamer and playing Kid Icarus of all things just made me remember this tweet:

Yes Anthony did get mad at me for being thirsty for Bowser

[flightyalrighty]

whats your favorite arc from the archie comics? also what are your thoughts on the idw comics? i really liked the metal virus arc

It's pretty difficult to choose just one tbh! The very first Archie Sonic comic I read (that wasn't the Free Comic Book Day one of that era) was the Hedgehog Havoc arc where they introduced Silver, so I feel almost like I GOTTA say that one? But the one I always go back and re-read is the post-SGW Unleashed arc, specifically Control. I think that's when Tyson Hesse started working on Sonic professionally as a penciler, so there's a ton of super good art throughout that one. Plus I'm a sucker for the werehog.

If we're counting Sonic Universe, then I'm stuck between The Shadow Saga (the first Sonic Universe arc) and Shadow Fall, because both have some of the best Team Dark writing ever, like it's SO good, PLEASE read those two if you haven't.

But then there's also The Secret Freedom Fighters!!!! Shard's in there!!!! Shard!!!!! Shard my beloved!!!! My very favorite ever Archie character!!!!!!! And he's working with Silver!! And Elias Acorn I guess!! And Larry Lynx ? ? ? And Leeta and Lyco! Yay!!!

---

So anyway let's talk about IDW!

I also really liked the Metal Virus arc! I really like when IDW Sonic dabbles with horror (Like with Scrapnik Island too). I guess that's not surprising coming from me.

There are some artists that work on that series that I like more than others. Not gonna name names, but the inks are sometimes being done too thin, and it can really hurt the readability of the art against those bold colors when that happens. Otherwise! I think the art is some really top-notch gorgeous stuff. You can really tell that everyone on that team isn't just there for a paycheck. There's so much love put into this series, and every new issue makes me smile so so big.

I do think the world, as it is right now, is very tightly contained? It needs more years. Archie had a VERY long history and a TON of world-building that got added to it for 24 years.

IDW Sonic is 6 years old, a baby compared to Archie. On top of that, IDW is MUCH more heavily restricted partially because of Sega clamping down on its IP and the writers that work within it, and partially (related to the former point) because IDW Sonic is now canon to the games. They must stay within a certain Status Quo bubble now. Nothing can contradict the games.

It's sad, but it is what it is.

I'll always mourn Archie, but I'm happy with what we have now. It's fun! It's a fun series! The new characters are fantastic, and Surge is my favorite of them! She's so fucked up! I love fucked up characters!

Maybe someday we'll get another massive arc like with the Metal Virus, too. I can't read Ian Flynn's mind, or Evan Stanley's for that matter. I do think that whatever comes next for IDW Sonic, it'll probably be a hoot and a half.

[channel-eclair]

okay maybe im just in denial but something really peculiar to me about the sonic 3 trailer is this moment right here

why are sonic and eggman warping somewhere? where are they warping? whats the plan here?

to me, my assumption of "eggman helping" would be eggman making some robot fighter or mechanical upgrades to team sonic. but why are they Going somewhere? wasnt sonic literally visiting eggmans lab?

my hope is that eggmans "help" is using sonics quil (and later keeping it for himself) to scan all over the world for more beings like sonic that'll help in the fight against sonic. i mean tails was able to track sonic so maybe tails and eggman can both work out a worldwide scanner

which of course leads to my desperate hope of just

can we still win somehow amy fans please please

i dont think its flat out impossibleee? sonic 2 is two hours long including credits, so maybe likeee

-first arc of the movie is a reintroduction to sonic tails and knuckles lives, GUN showing up to be like "sonic we need ur help", team sonic getting cleared by shadow, and some info on shadows past

-second arc is going to eggman for help, eggman helps them find amy, team sonic meets amy. meanwhile eggman goes back and eventually has his run in with gerald

-third arc is the team getting to know amy a bit more with the humans i forgot the name of, and cuts to flashbacks of shadows past with explanations from GUN

-fourth arc is a 4v1 rematch against shadow, which team sonic manages to win, and we get plenty of interactions between the five characters during this

-fifth arc is eggman and gerald going "surprise we are bad lol", space colony arc, biolizard shenanigans, and then sonic and shadow use the chaos emeralds to use their super saiyan hedgehog yaoi blast (ft. live and learn) on the lizard and the day is saved

ehhhhh Maybe thats like. too much to fit in one movie. gerald makes it REALLY awkward to balance the idea of both shadow and amy being in the movie tbh. plus we gotta account for how much sceentime the obligatory human actors are gonna take up so idk. who knows when theres gonna be 20 minutes of some dude playing tennis or something paramount is not above doing that

im not hopeful at all but itd be nice

[stormdash2]

If the Freedom Fighters were in IDW Sonic.

One thing I like to wonder is what it would be like if The Freedom Fighters were in IDW Sonic. While the IDW comics are meant to be more in line with the games, that doesn't mean that the Freedom Fighters can't find their place.

Honestly, if the Diamond Cutters can be featured in IDW, I see no reason why the Freedom Fighters can't be as well.

Sally Acorn. She won't be a Princess like Archie, but she can be introduced as the daughter of Knothole's Mayor, giving her political ties. Knothole would be less of a hiding place and more where Sally grew up.

She'd have martial arts capabilities and be handy with tech. She could even use her ring blades from the Reboot to help her in battle.

Just to get this out of the way. Sonally may not be a thing in IDW like it was in Archie. At most I can see Sally having a one-sided crush. It probably won't go anywhere, it'd just be a neat callback, but their friendship would remain just that, unless Sega ever okays the couple.

Sonic won't be a Freedom Fighter, and neither would Tails for that matter. He may not be childhood friends with Sally either. They'd meet as teens and build a friendship from there. Sally could have heard of Sonic at least, or maybe she saw him in passing, but that's it.

Nicole wouldn't be an AI, she'd be fully Lynx. I can see her being a tech assistant though, or even a master hacker. Maybe even a teleportation device to have her transported anywhere to pay homage to her old abilities.

She and Sally could be childhood friends. But I'd go a step further and make them stepsisters. This takes inspiration from used SatAM concepts.

There Sally and Nicole were childhood friends until Nicole's brain was transplanted into the computer. When she got her body back, she was a kid, so Sally became like a mother to her. So Sally being the protective big sister works for her character.

We can go further and have her be rather introverted, and more likely to communicate through radio or a hologram than in person.

Bunnie Rabbot wouldn't be a cyborg. I can see her going the Iron Man route and just using mechanical limbs to fight. It'd be both arms and legs. She'd also be a childhood of Sally, and the first to want to go on an adventure with Sonic and Friends.

The cyborg thing is cool and all, but that would require a whole new backstory since roboticization isn't a thing this time around. It can be done, but I am sticking to this route.

If anything, you can say she needed the robotic limbs because she was paralyzed, so she can still be flesh and blood, but still not fully functional.

I can see her potentially bonding with Tails, as he may take a liking to her robotics, and she'd find his genius mind charming. He might even put his own spin on things and build a close bond with one another.

Antoine would be a guard working for Sally's father. He might be updated to having a Wispon, but still with sword like abilities.

Honestly I'd rather he just have the sword but in this type of world, he'd likely be armed with a Wispon, so it'd be the best of both worlds.

I can see him dating Bunnie, or at least flirting with her, but not actually married to her yet. He'd be between comedic coward and brave fighter.

Rotor would be a mechanist, and likely the one arming everyone. Sally's Ring Blades, Bunnie's Robotic Suit and maybe even working on custom Wispons.

He would likely build his own weapons to fight, if need be, but also much more comfortable as the support guy than a fighter.

I imagine he could have some natural strength, so he'd be able to destroy a badnik if need be, without tools.

As a whole, the Freedom Fighters concept comes from their introductory arc where it's revealed they fought together during the Phantom Ruby Incident to liberate Knothole.

They probably didn't really do much damage to Infinite, and most likely just played defense to keep people safe. But they were determined to keep their home free from Eggman's rule.

In this continuity, they'd be more side characters though, and not in every arc afterwards. They could have cameos like appearing in the Restoration, maybe even befriending Tangle, Whisper, Lanolin and Jewel, but that's it.

Like The Chaotix, the Freedom Fighters will appear when needed, and would likely not recruit any game characters.

Bonus character, one of two. If Fiona Fox were to return, she'd have her original role as a medic like she did in the old Archie days.

She could be sassier, akin to her Destructix Days, but this time around, Fiona's purely on the good side. Any sassy remarks could be her either playful, or she just gets annoyed and is more likely to tell you off.

No bad history with Sonic, and her interactions with him and Tails are sassy but respectful. She has no feelings for Sonic, and she's kind to Tails but may be the first to call him nerdy if he acts in such a way.

Any trauma she had could have been due to what Infinite did to Knothole, but this time around, she works on it and doesn't let it consume her like the old Archie days. It'd be her personal character arc.

Bonus character, two of two. If Mina Mongoose returned, she would be more of an aspiring Pop Idol, and working with the FF to achieve that goal to spread Kindness in the world with her music.

She could provide some meta regarding official Sonic songs, it'd be a better way to work them in than just having characters quote them and potentially ruining a mood.

Also, no drama with Sonic either. She never had a major crush on him, she just finds him cool and appreciates him as a Symbol for Freedom.

She probably won't have her super speed this time around, but she'd be fine regardless. If anything, she can fight with a Wispon.

So yeah, this is how I would bring the Freedom Fighters back to IDW. Not to turn Sonic into an Avengers Comic, or to put him and Tails in an official team, but to just add a little bit of depth to their world.

It's still Sonic's story, the Freedom Fighters are just playing their part in it, just like any other character. It'd be a fun addition to the comics, so long as it's done right. Maybe one day.

[pixelrushiguess]

Hey, complicated question here.

We know Sally Acorn isn't one of your favorite Sonic characters; but would you say that she and the Freedom Fighters are so much better than the Diamond Cutters/Restoration?

Oh 100%, it’s not even close. The Freedom Fighters have the advantage of being in a comic with no ties to the games so they could really do whatever the hell they wanted, for better and for worse. And because Archie lasted so long, the Freedom Fighters had a TON of history.

The Diamond Cutters frustrate me because they’re in EVERY story now in IDW and I don’t know why. Like the most recent arc has like 15 main characters in it and it just isn’t needed, especially when the Diamond Cutters themselves aren’t particularly interesting. Tangle was kind of fun, but she doesn’t really have anything that makes her really stand out. Whisper has a tragic backstory, but her arc is completed and she just kind of exists as the comic’s punching bag whenever they need cheap drama. And Lanolin just isn’t a fun character to read. Like I’m not against the idea of a stern stick in the mud character who can be kind of mean, but you have to exaggerate it in a way that’s entertaining to read. I think a big problem with IDW is how normal all the dialogue and characters feel and I think Lanolin is a good example of why it’s a bad thing. She’s not mean in a fun way, it’s just a very real and uncomfortable way, which doesn’t make me like her, especially when she just kind of inserted herself into the cast. It’s like when a random person joins your friend group and acts like a jerk.

As for the Restoration, I hate it. I always have. It’s super restrictive to the storytelling and its characters and in my opinion, completely misses the point of Sonic and the stories he appears in. Sonic is about adventure, it’s about seeing the world and running into friends along the way. It’s why the phrase “Long time no see” was so common in the past, because Sonic and his friends weren’t a unit. They were individuals who had their own lives and would be thrust into an adventure by coincidence. Giving the cast a base of operations limits that potential and removes the adventurous spirit of the series. It also makes the cast feel like superheroes which is lame because that’s never what Sonic was about. Sonic himself doesn’t even view himself as a hero, so having this giant group dedicated to saving the world is really lame for a Sonic story, especially one that’s supposed to be cannon to the games.

[pixelheartthrob]

In Defense of Princess Elise.

When I first got heavily into the Sonic franchise in 2020, I had already heard of how bad 06 was and that Elise was the worst part of it. While 06 isn't a great game by any means, Elise is definitely not the biggest problem. The fandom made me believe that she was an uncaring, selfish person who liked doing...inappropriate things to animals. Once I played the game, however, I saw that this is the complete opposite of how she is. The fandom and the entire internet (because the hatred people have for Elise extends far beyond the fanbase) lied about this character and everyone went along with it for decades.

She had an arc where Sonic taught her to open up, enjoy life, and made her feel genuine happiness for the first time since her father died. I thought it was a sweet and simple arc, and compared to how headache-inducing the time travel stuff can be, I prefer the simplicity of Elise's story. A lot of people blame Elise herself for getting kidnapped but it's not really the character's fault, it's the contrived plots fault. It's common for fan rewrites to try and fix this by changing Elise into a fighter with capabilities on the same level as the other characters, but that's not really fixing. It's more akin to replacing because Elise isn't a fighter. Even worse, there are rewrites of 06 that straight up replace Elise with Sally or Blaze. It reminds me of people saying Elise would be better if she was an anthro character, but her being human isn't a problem. It's just the art direction that needs improving. I actually think Elise being human is one of the things that makes her unique (and her controversial status as Sonic's human love interest is what she's most well known for, so if Sega was to remake 06 and she suddenly showed up as an entirely different species, it'd be a bit jarring lol). You can also considerably lower the number of contrived kidnappings without changing Elise into something she's not. Elise's story and character are more emotion-driven than action-driven, so there are other ways she can be strong. She's already a strong character in an emotional sense. In fact, she's the most emotionally strong character in the series.

For example, I think Elise blowing out the Flame of Disaster (or the Flame of Hope, as it was previously called) is one of the most powerful moments in the franchise.

People give Elise a lot of crap for her breakdown, mostly her "I don't care what happens to the world!" line. This line gets blown out of proportion by a lot of Sonic fans and gamers in general because they aren't very observant and take everything at face value. People call Elise "selfish" for this outburst but just put yourself in her shoes. Imagine if you had to give up the only friend you've ever had ‐ the only person who made you feel genuine happiness in years. All the moments you spent together would be erased from both of your memories. I don't think most people would be able to make such a sacrifice. Get off her back, guys. She's not selfish. Everyone has had moments where they got upset at how unfair the world is.

She obviously didn't mean it, because she regained her composure when remembering Sonic's words and blew out the flame shortly afterwards. People also claim she's being dramatic and crying over someone she's known for a few days, but they conveniently forget that Sonic was literally her only friend and the only one she felt happiness around since the death of her parents. It's understandable that she'd get attached. The fact that Elise blew out the flame and put the world's needs above her own despite all she's been through and despite knowing that she'll lose her only friend shows how selfless she is. She does care about the world.

So, how would one fix Elise without completely altering her character? It's simple, really. Just give her more screentime. Maybe explore how she feels about her parents (especially her father) and how she coped with their deaths. The "not crying for 10 years" thing is the only problem people seem to have with Elise's backstory, but I think there's an easy fix for this, too.

In the scene where Sonic is killed, we see a glimpse of Elise remembering her father's words. At first I wondered what this flashback was showing, but I think this is meant to show Elise's reaction to the news of her father's death. As we can see, she's not crying, but is gently clutching the blue chaos emerald and seems to be in a trance-like state. My idea is that maybe the energy of the chaos emerald regulates her emotions and she carries it around for comfort. It could also help her cope by detaching from the situation or reality altogether.

We can see her clutching the emerald during the first cutscene at the festival when Eggman threatens to take it from her, too. She is understandably reluctant to hand the emerald over because it was given to her as a charm to ease the pain of her father's death, so she holds it dearly. She probably had the emerald in this cutscene as emotional support just in case anything went wrong during the festival because other than that, I can't think of a reason for her to be carrying it. There are also moments where she blanks out or has hallucinations.

So that's my idea as to how Elise went for so long without crying. Elise is a decent character that just needed more screentime, not a complete character overhaul like people say. In my proposed fixes, I didn't make many drastic changes or remove anything from Elise's character or backstory, I just added to it. The main problem is that Elise was underwritten, not badly written, as there were things that should've been explored more regarding her backstory and her parents. I'd like to mention what I said at the start about people portraying her as a creep whose into necrophilia and beastiality, mainly because of her kissing Sonic. People really overreact to the kiss scene as if it's a scandalous moment that Sega tried to sneak into a kids game, but it's...really not. It's clearly meant to be reminiscent of a fairytale and the kiss was obscured by a light. It's quite literally the most tame thing in the universe. Plus, Sonic's spirit was present during the kiss and the first thing he does upon being revived is thank Elise. It's also not beatiality because Sonic isn't a literal hedgehog. He's an anthropomorphic cartoon character that's able to walk, talk, and think like humans do.

Just like how people will portray Elise as a creep, they'll portray Sonic as being disturbed by her very presence or Amy wanting to kill Elise because she "stole her man". This obviously contradicts everything in the actual game because Sonic is shown to enjoy Elise's company and Amy has a lot of respect for Elise. It's kind of misogynistic to think that just because two female characters have a crush on the same guy, they have to be at eachothers throats. It's also strange because Sonic fans will throw huge fits when the characters are written poorly, out of character, or flanderized, but that's exactly what they're doing to the characters. Writing Amy as hateful and violent towards Elise just turns Amy into the crazy, overprotective, Sonic stalker that fans hate to see people accuse her of being. If Sonic was to act like a jerk towards any of his other friends, fans would consider that out of character, so why do those same fans portray him as acting like that towards Elise - someone he is shown to appreciate and consider a friend? I guess it's okay to wildly misrepresent a character or flanderize them, but only when it's directed at another character that you don't like. This fandom makes no sense.

[howlingday]

Geez I get it. I'm the skill issue. It's just hard from a story writing process to figure out to make Ruby a good enough fighter when her weapon seems so impactial. I'm not blaming you Howling. Maybe I need to study more scythe users.

Maybe. And I'm sorry if I insulted you.

To be honest, I wasn't thinking of anyone in particular when I reblogged that post about scythes. Maybe it's just me, but I think people are way too cynical and critical on fictional works. Rather than have a suspension of disbelief and enjoy the show, everything has to be one hundred percent realistic and accurate and easily relatable to the viewer.

Sure, relying on physics, Superman would cause a black hole when he rockets into orbit, Sonic the Hedgehog would break his legs running at light speed, and Ruby Rose would be ripped apart by those Beowolves in the Red Trailer.

But where's the fun in that? But who knows; maybe I'm just a whiny little punk on the internet who's crying over literally nothing.

--------------------------------------------------

...Sorry about that. Alright, on to my advice for you on making Ruby a "decent fighter". I think you're on the right track with your study on other scythe wielders.

From what I've seen, scythe wielders are best described as DEX, or dexterity, builds. In comparison, a greatsword is more of a STR, or strength, build weapon. What does this mean? Well, another way to describe it is DODGE VS BLOCK.

Characters like Thor, War, and Jaune Arc are STR build Blockers.

Characters like Spider-Man, Death, and, yes, Ruby Rose are DEX build Dodgers.

This isn't to say either can't use the tactics of others, but their bodies and developed styles lean more towards one than the other. But sometimes when they do try somebody else's style, well...

[beevean]

Have you ever stopped and realized that Lanolin just kinda sucks as a leader?

No, I don't even mean her being an insufferable know-nothing know-it-all to everyone around her, because that's obvious to everyone not distracted by "HURR-DURR LOOK THE LADY SHEEP CHARACTER HAS BIG TITS!1!!11"

What I mean is that this comic is trying to paint Lanolin as a wise, tough-as-nails, no-nonsense straight-man in a group of action addicted fighters who need to be kept in check by her leadership... and yet, things get resolved and conflicts get dealt with far more effectively when people DON'T follow her orders.

Hell, Team Dark being there to solve the problem wasn't because of anything the writers tried to pretend Lanolin had any part in; they just happened to detect that shit was going down at Eggperial City, and so they tried to stop it. And they do. All without Lanolin being there.

bro what do you think I've been talking about until now 😂

Lanolin is objectively incompetent, the most obvious sign being that she fell for Duo contradicting himself in the span of a minute - he told her "I did everything I could to save Silver", and then he told Silver "I was trying to get some help" in front of her. girl. girl c'mon. do you have wool in your head too or

Her ruling with an inflexible iron fist is sloppy leadership. She doesn't trust anyone but herself and her judgment. She won't even talk with her teammates, like when she rudely snatched Tangle's toy instead of simply asking her to stop. She escalated the situation with Whisper to the point of violence and then had the balls to tell her "control yourself". All of this creates a climate of resentment and fear. And, as shown, Tangle is scared of telling Lanolin the truth about PR because she is scared of her leader. What could she do, objectively? Nothing terrible, it's not like she'd attack Sonic on sight. But that's the climate she created, so now Tangle and Whisper are sneaking behind her back.

Which is fairly realistic for a newbie who was kicked in that position and who was traumatized into becoming a control freak: she has no natural charisma, so she overcompensates by playing tough and sticking to rigid, simple rules. But I'm genuinely not sure how much of this was intentional.

As usual, people don't hate asshole women because they hate women "with an attitude": it's when said women are given much more charte blanche than anyone else in the story that it gets annoying. Whisper spent the last arcs getting beaten into submission without doing anything that could warrant it (she got literally gaslighted, in the dictionary sense of the word!), so forgive me if I'm not quite charitable to a sloppy condescending disdainful wannabe leader whose only role in the story is making things harder for everyone and I'm only meant to be seen as flawed, not an actual bully.

[sallyacornsmackdown]

THE FINALS

Information on these Sallys: Sally Acorn from the Post-SGW (post-reboot) version of the Archie Sonic Comics. In issue #252, the series was rebooted, giving the SatAM cast redesigns to match more closely to the modern design tropes of Sonic characters. Sally's design loses the cheek-fluff, making her look a little more like the Pink Sally prototype, and she also gains cool electric blades as weapons. Oh yeah, and she said bisexual rights, as before the series was cancelled, the Spark of Life arc was the beginning of a potential romance between Sally and Nicole the Holo-Lynx Regular Sally is what I'm calling the version of Sally that we mostly see in the Pre-SGW comics. She spent a lot of the early run looking like this, until Sonic got tossed into space and she grew her hair long for a while and was purposely kept away from being a Freedom Fighter (boo!). Soon after writer Ian Flynn came on board, Sally asked Bunnie to cut off her long-hair and she returned to looking like this to symbolise that she's part of the team once again

[spiderman616]

can you shut the fuck up

[scruffyplayssonic]

Are the ArchieSonic comics actually an 80’s/90’s syndicated cartoon? Episode 66: Summary (part two)

This is part two of my summary and conclusion to my blog series investigating how the ArchieSonic comics were remarkably similar to the format of a syndicated cartoon from the 80’s and 90’s. If you haven’t already, you can read part one here.

Okay, back to it!

Episode 40: The one episode that’s unique to the show’s premise and characters

I chose four arcs for this one - Mecha Madness, Return to Angel Island, Iron Dominion, and Spark of Life.

Episode 41: Recap origin story in yet another clip show

They didn’t do it as more clip shows, but the origins of the series were further explored in new stories multiple times in both pre-boot and post-boot. Perhaps the most memorable instance is from Sonic #43, in which King Acorn was trapped in his memories and reliving Robotnik’s coup.

Episode 42: Haunted house

We got this in the Sonic X comics, with issues 13 and 14 bringing in King Boom Boo from Sonic Adventure 2 and that one episode of the anime. Oh, and he was possessing everyone he could get his non-corporeal mitts on.

Episode 43: Hero suddenly becomes elderly

This one happened in Sonic Super Special #8. It wasn’t pretty.

Episode 44: Hero suddenly becomes six-to-eleven years old

This is another one we didn’t get in the comics, unfortunately. I used that episode as a good time to talk about the Sonic Kids comics, which gave us stories from when the Freedom Fighters were younger.

Episode 45: Boys vs. girls

I feel like this episode is supposed to be about boys and girls on the same teams turning against each other, so for this one I’m going to say no, that didn’t happen in ArchieSonic. The closest we got was that one time in Sonic #14 when Robotnik and Snively kidnapped Sally and Bunnie because they thought, “lulz girls are weaksauce.” They got more than they bargained for.

Episode 46: Unusually serious “drugs are bad,” episode.

Sigh, yes. The Chaotix Caper in Knuckles #13 - 15 is infamous.

Episode 47: Evil alien invasion

In pre-boot there was the Xorda in Sonic #124 - 125. In post-boot there was the return of the Black Arms in Sonic Universe #59 - 62. 

Episode 48: Benign Alien Visitors

The most memorable example is Ceneca-9009 of the Bem, who came to Mobius to change all roboticised Mobians back to normal. After first testing champions on both sides, of course.

Episode 49: Hero becomes blind. Magoo jokes aplenty. Ableism ages episode horribly.

Another one that didn’t happen in the comics. The closest instance was in the godawful Sonic Super Special 15, which featured ten freaking pages of Sonic wandering around in the dark or in a blizzard and unable to see crap.

Episode 50: Major event that dramatically shakes up status quo. Turns out to be a dream. 

I’m going with Sonic #37 for this one. Some might argue that Bunnie’s nightmare wasn’t really that big an event, but I would argue that one of the main characters slowly becoming a robot and turning on her friends definitely counts.

Episode 51: Villains team up

Oh, so many times. So many times in fact that I had to make a second post for all the examples I forgot. Let’s go with that time in Sonic #62, when a whole bunch of locked up villains thought Snively had been responsible for their jailbreak and signed up to work with him.

Episode 52: Rashomon homage

Yes, in Sonic Super Special #5. Sonic, Sally and Antoine all argued about how they each single-handedly defeated a combot that had attacked them.

Episode 53: Henchman joins heroes for one time only.

Snively did team up with the Freedom Fighters in a couple of issues when Robo-Robotnik invaded Mobius before agreeing to work for the new Eggman. He would later join the Freedom Fighters for awhile, starting in Sonic #152. He eventually went back to the Eggman Empire again, of course, because he’s awful. Post-reboot he had left Eggman's forces and was supposedly working for GUN, but was secretly plotting his own conquest from within their ranks.

Episode 54: Random child rescues hero. The episode’s all about them now.

There weren’t really any good examples that fit this one. Hope Robotnik and Ken Penders’ son and niece from the Sonic Live! special certainly had prominent page time in the stories they were involved in, but they never actually rescued Sonic, despite what this cover might have you believe.

Episode 55: Invisibility potion

Yes, but it was so effective that everyone (even Sonic himself) thought that he was dead.

Episode 56: The Writer’s Barely Disguised Fetish

Oh god, where do you even start with this one? Let’s just say yes, it happened on multiple occasions, and leave it at that.

Episode 57: Can’t eat favourite food

Weeeeell, I guess so. There was that one time in Sonic #11 where he ate too many chilli dogs before bed and had a trippy nightmare. When he woke up he decided to go on a diet for about thirty seconds. (cue canned laughter)

Episode 58: We have to save the environment, and so do you!

A lot of the early issues focused on stopping Robotnik from destroying the environment, but the best example of this one is probably the nuking of Robotropolis. Sonic managed to trick Eggman into turning on his city’s forcefield after the nuclear missiles were already inside, meaning that all the destruction and radiation was safely contained in an impenetrable bubble. In later issues Eggman and other villains would try to penetrate this shield, to release the radiation out into the surrounding environment.

Episode 59: Stranded in the ocean

I’m going with Waves of Change from Sonic #260 - #263, where Sonic, Amy and Rotor had to go to the underwater city of Meropis on their quest to restore the shattered planet.

Episode 60: Stranded in the desert

There are two instances here that fit this one best. The first one is Sonic #62/63 again, where Sonic and Tails crash their biplane in the desert and are “rescued” by the inhabitants of Sandblast City, who worship Sonic and refuse to let him leave. The other is the Knuckles mini-series, in which Knuckles and Archimedes were yeeted into the desert by Enerjak (something that seems to happen a lot with the various Enerjaks, I noticed).

Episode 61: Stranded in the snow

Continuing right off from Sonic #63 when Sonic and Tails escaped from the desert, they ended up trapped in the snow in the very next issue when their biplane failed them yet again.

Episode 62: Stuck in an elevator

I wasn’t able to find any instances of specifically being trapped in an elevator, so I broadened the category to its base trope, which is two people, usually enemies or rivals, being locked in a room together. There were lots of cases of this, such as when Dr Eggman and Dr Wily were locked up together during the Worlds Unite crossover.

Episode 63: Clip show to set up two-part finale

Well, Sonic #283 was a set-up story for the finale of the Sonic Unleashed adaptation. It had two stories - the first featured Sonic and Sally calling their allies around the world to explain their plan and ask for help, and the second featured Eggman watching the pirated footage of that video call and making a counter-plan. Is it a clip show? Not exactly, but it’s close enough.

Episode 64 - 65: Two-part Finale

I cited various finales (or planned finales, in the case of Endgame), including the end of the Knuckles series, the end of the Super Specials, the end of the Sonic X companion series, the end of the pre-reboot era, and the end of the post-reboot era. As I said in the final post, in my mind the proper finale of ArchieSonic is Sonic #287, despite the cancellation of the series not happening until three issues later and the fact that the last ArchieSonic comic ever published was actually Sonic Universe #94.

So out of the 65 episodes listed, we didn’t get the hiccups episode, the Wonderful Life parody episode, the hero has a cold episode, the origin recap clip show episode, the hero regressing to childhood episode, the boys vs. girls episode, or the hero blinded episode. That comes to only seven out of sixty-five episodes that we never saw happen in the ArchieSonic series. But does this mean that the comic wasn’t really a comic at all, but actually a syndicated cartoon? Well, let me just quote myself from the very first post I did regarding this topic.

So there you have it - of course ArchieSonic is a comic book series, there was never actually any doubt. 

Before I finish up, I’d like to say a big thank you to everyone who has read this series, especially those who commented with encouragement, ideas and suggestions. 

In particular I feel that I once again owe a big thank you to former ArchieSonic contributor Aleah Baker, who not only read and commented on my pieces but also gave her precious time on more than one occasion to offer behind the scenes insight and answer my questions about certain issues or characters. She was incredibly generous with me and I’m extremely grateful for all the help. 

This has been an extremely interesting topic for me to explore, and I’m going to miss writing about it. I’m not entirely sure what I’m going to do with this blog after this. A few people have suggested that I go into a full commitment to review the entire series rather than just portions of it like I’ve been doing with this blog series, and I have certainly been considering doing that. But on the other hand there are so many others who have done that so well - a few of my personal favourites are @robotnikholmescomicblog (who has branched out to video essays after finishing his initial reviews on Tumblr), the ArchieSonic Digest podcast, and of course, Bobby Shroeder’s @thankskenpenders. If I was going to do a full ArchieSonic review series, I would want to find a way to put my own spin on it rather than just rehashing what they have done. So I’m going to have to keep thinking on that. Thanks again for reading, everyone, and take care!

[iratusmus]

so bizarre to me when people give fiona a redemption arc like making her evil wasnt literally like the fundamental core of making her an actually interesting character. like . ok actually i was mostly planning on just leaving the post as this but im going to make a proper post whining about this because ive seen it far too often for my liking.

it appears to me that a lot of people do this because they dislike fiona/scourge which is like. sure i get it. but you could literally just... break them up . and have her continue being awful on her own. like scourge is not the reason she switched sides and i find the idea. 1) a bit misogynistic frankly but thats more of a personal gripe than anything else like god forbid a woman make bad choices of her own volition and not because a man forced her hand into doing it (YES i am aware that abuse makes this more complicated than that but also we .... already have a relationship in archie sonic that fits this exact bill. yes it wasnt written well but the wonder of fan works is that you can always make it better. so why are we repeating it again 1:1) and 2) demeaning to the point of her character.

like. ok. lets go over the facts real quick. as a kid fiona got put in robotnik's salt mines and got accidentally left behind bc sonic & co couldnt find her. she realized that nobody was going make the effort to go save her, so she dug herself out and started life on the run as a treasure hunter/thief. she didnt ever really accept the fact that sonic and mighty not saving her wasnt really their fault, and even after becoming a freedom fighter, nobody ever said anything or apologized or said "hey wow that kind of sucks you went through all that". she never really made any actual friends within the ff or formed any meaningful bonds. she starts dating sonic, but its pretty clear that the only reason they're dating is that she's his rebound post The Slap. the moment her history with bean & bark came up - after she used that knowledge to save everybody - sally immediately turns on her and sonic is the only person to try to stick up for her. as bark and bean leave, bean also insinuates that fiona isnt really a freedom fighter, and that she's still basically one of them.

fiona is a "bad" trauma survivor. when i say "bad" i mean in opposition to the ideal tumblr trauma survivor - the sad poor uwu bean whose trauma only inclines them hurt themselves and they become more sympathetic kind etc. as a result. fiona, on the other hand, blames sonic (whose fault this is, frankly, not) for her experiences, and becomes more jaded and mean. she has no real support system and people repeatedly tell her that she hasnt changed and that she wont change and she cant change. shes already got all this baggage by the time her relationship with scourge starts carrying actual weight - he's offering her a way out. if none of them are ever going to really accept her being "good", then she might as well just give into her worst impulses and join hands with scourge, who, notably, has no stake in this - he doesnt have any obligation to be her friend like the freedom fighters, and more than that he likes her specifically because of the part of her that everybody else hates. the important part here is that he encouraged her to switch sides, he didnt make her switch sides.

id say fiona's character in a writing sense is an exploration of the failings of the freedom fighters to support a trauma victim, and how those failings, while unintentional, lead that victim to specifically turn against them. she says "ok actually screw all of you guys" and gives up on trying to be good because nobody ever gave her any real encouragement and decides to put herself on a path of self-destructive revenge and inflicting her misery onto the general population. we can also recall at this point that this motivation is entirely removed from scourge and you can literally break them up and still keep her evil.

the other important point here is that she purposefully chose that path of turning evil as opposed to leaving the freedom fighters or going somewhere else or like literally doing anything else. she literally could have just left but she did not and thats what makes her Interesting. prompted by her unhealed trauma and personal baggage she made those bad choices for herself, and frankly i cannot for the life of me understand why people think that walking back that character development (and yes i mean character development. character development can also mean getting worse) for ..... what. snarky but with a heart of gold generic protagonist girl? come on guys