#like. tcw was just never going to be able to say anything about politics or war

[willowcrowned]

“Making anyone over the age of 8 watch tcw should be forbidden” okay, but why?

because it’s bad in the way only bad kids shows can be. and then it’s also bad in fifteen other ways

[antianakin]

In the Expanded Universe, the Clone Troopers didn't have inhibitor chips. If Ahsoka and Rex were pre-existing EU characters before TCW, how would Order 66 play out?

As someone particularly unfamiliar with the EU, I'm basically going to have to give my best guess here based on what little I know about how clones and clone/Jedi relationships were treated pre-TCW.

So the first option is the one that seems to be most in line with what the Prequels were going for which is that the clones are slightly less than sentient and so while the relationships between the clones and the Jedi might've seemed friendly, it wasn't the deep friendships we saw from TCW, but perhaps closer to like a co-worker's politeness than anything else. So if we just assume that the plot of TCW itself goes pretty much the same, Rex and Ahsoka are on a star destroyer coming back from Mandalore when Order 66 hits, then the way this one goes is that Rex simply doesn't hesitate when given the Order. This is very likely to end in Ahsoka's immediate death since she is surrounded by clone troopers on that bridge. If we want to be kinder to Ahsoka for some reason, then let's say she manages to pick up on the danger and is able to somehow flee the bridge, then she'd just escape immediately. She'd probably kill several clones on her way to a shuttle because she wouldn't really care about keeping them alive the same way we see happening with Obi-Wan and Yoda in ROTS; it's them or her at this point. Rex would either be killed in her escape or just left behind and we'd never know what happened to him after that.

The second option is the anti-Jedi version where the reason the clones are so quick to turn on the Jedi is because the Jedi have treated them badly and so the clones hate them and aren't opposed to their genocide. In this case, obviously Rex and Ahsoka's relationship would be very strained, he's with her on this mission because he's been ordered to go by Anakin probably but there's no friendship here and never has been. The aftermath of this probably goes exactly the same as option 1, honestly. The most likely outcome is she gets immediately murdered because she's surrounded by people who want her dead and aren't going to hesitate, but if you wanted to be REALLY kind to her, then she gets a split second to react to the danger and finds a way to flee the bridge and probably kills several clones on her way out to a shuttle. Maybe this is the one where she uses Maul as a distraction, knowing it will mean the deaths of the clones, but instead of going after Rex, she just goes after her own escape. This would probably lend itself well to a darker Ahsoka, honestly.

Option 3 is based on what little I know of Karen Traviss's abominations and in this one I guess Ahsoka would realize while spending time with Bo-Katan that wow the Mandos are just SO MUCH BETTER than those stinky Jedi and she realizes she's been in love with Rex this whole time and the two of them decide to stay with Bo-Katan and become Mandalorians alongside the rest of the 332nd or something. Maybe they met up with that dude Kal Skirata and his Null sons or whatever when taking back Mandalore because everyone seems to think this dude shits gold or something.

TL;DR It would suck, pretty badly. The best option for me is option 1 and Ahsoka is immediately killed along with most of the other Jedi during Order 66. It doesn't break continuity with the films at least and it's thematic that she dies from Anakin's choices, even though she'll never know it.

[smhalltheurlsaretaken]

THE BOX IS NABOO

That’s it, I’m doing it, I’m writing that stupid meta I’ve had in the works for two and a half years, I’m sharing it with the world. I promised it for last Thursday, my poll was forever ago, but whatever! I’m writing that freaking thing.

(super duper long post, press j to skip)

Enter my rabbit hole.

First thing to establish: the Box makes no sense whatsoever in-universe.

((EDIT: Something I forgot to mention. IRL, the premise of a giant murder cube and the aesthetic - wall patterns, light designs, etc - of the episode come from the 1997 horror movie Cube, (see the episode’s wookieepedia page). However, while the two are very closely linked visually, the Box does not follow the movie structurally or narratively, as you can verify by simply reading the movie’s summary.))

Recap of the context for the "Box" episode (s4e17): Palpatine is planning his own kidnapping. It was never meant to succeed, and while the plan would obviously benefit him (making the Jedi look bad, pushing Anakin closer to the Dark Side, making Republic citizens more afraid -> more docile, etc...) his actual goal is never explained, and it’s weird that he’d go to such extreme lengths for results so minimal that we’re never told what they are.

So Palpatine asks Dooku to kidnap him at the Festival of Lights on Naboo. Dooku hires Moralo Eval to design a giant box-thingy to test bounty hunters to hire the best of them to kidnap Palpatine. Moralo then gets arrested to alert the Republic that something is afoot, and hires Cad Bane to break him out. Obi-Wan - undercover to learn Moralo’s plan - goes with them. They evade capture and go to Serenno, and Bane and Obi-Wan have to pass the box-thingy test. The level of brainkarked logic here... Truly on par with Megamind, Gru and Heinz Doofenshmirtz.

Setting aside the insane plot holes and utterly nonsensical behavior of the villains, the Box itself is moronic from a plot perspective. It’s insanely complex, obviously incredibly expensive and would have taken months (more like years but it’s a short war) to make when it’s not even needed for the dastardly plot! Just hire some guys who have already proven themselves against Jedi! Throw cash at Bane and Embo and a few others! Maybe attack them with your saber and see how they do! 

And after all that, Dooku still ends up trying to kidnap Palpatine on his own. I can’t even... 

So why does the Box exist? Well, apart from being a nerdy callback to Cube, giving us a good thrill and being generally awesome to look at, it has actual narrative purpose within the SW universe.

The box is Naboo.

What the Box lacks in plot relevance, it makes up for with its heavily symbolic meaning. It very closely follows Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon’s experiences on Naboo - but only certain parts, which I’ll explain later.

We start with clean, sterile environments, SW’s favored way of showing villainy.

Then we have the protagonists locked in a room as dioxis, a poison gas, pours in.

And then they escape... this way.

(Okay, here the shaft is down, not up. And it’s not a ventilation shaft per say, it’s the designed escape route. Same difference).

We then skip most of TPM (namely, Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon discovering the droid army, finding Padmé, leaving Naboo, landing on Tatooine, going to Coruscant, etc, etc) to come back to Naboo and go directly to the lightsabers and catwalks.

(Note: in both scenes, Obi-Wan has to propel himself from a catwalk.)

In TPM and TCW, the catwalks are immediately followed by ray shields

And we finally end with the last scenes. Now, they don’t look the same but they are structurally identical. 

Obi-Wan is faced with a challenge unsuited for his abilities (facing Darth Maul // shooting three moving targets when he’s far more skilled with a blade than a blaster) on a narrow space above a melting pit/pit of fire. 

He first watches someone die failing to complete the task...

 ... and has to do it himself, faring much better than expected (holding his own against Maul // shooting all the targets easily). 

He then almost falls to his death and gets saved unexpectedly.

And then there’s the final showdown.

In both scenes, Obi-Wan is angry. And in TCW Dooku eggs him on, banking on his anger. (More on that later.) In both cases though, he centers himself and is able to overcome both his opponent and his own unbalance. But in TCW, he doesn’t go for the kill, because he doesn’t need to. 

The Box, as a literal character-explorator ex-machina, thus shows us Obi-Wan’s growth.  

In TPM, Obi-Wan follows Qui-Gon’s lead. In TCW, he is the leader. He identifies the gas, makes the plans. He doesn’t fall from catwalks anymore - he runs atop moving ones. He doesn’t stay stuck behind ray-shields, he finds the solution. (Btw, how did Moralo know what blood type Derrown the Exterminator was? There was a 50% chance of him dying - thus killing all of the bounty hunters. Was that an acceptable outcome? TCW I need answers!) He doesn’t slay his foes, because he’s become powerful enough, skilled enough and wise enough to survive (and win) without needing to kill.

He’s grown - and, even more interestingly, he’s also stayed the same. In the previous episodes, we see some of the dark aspects of Obi-Wan. How he - like all Force-wielders, all people - could lose himself if he stopped maintaining absolute control.

But in the Box, surrounded by the worst criminals of the Galaxy, the most ruthless, worthless people, he’s still kind and tries his best to keep them alive.

The Box is a reminder and a reassurance for the audience that Obi-Wan Kenobi is still there under Rako’s face. He hasn’t lost his compassion, his restrain. He’s still a Jedi. And he’s an awesome, badass one. 

And now, for what it tells us about Dooku! 

It’s much shorter, don’t worry. Basically, Dooku considers that the best way to pick “the best of the best” of the deadliest people in the Galaxy is making them go through what killed his Padawan. There, I’ve broken your hearts, you’re welcome. 

More seriously, Dooku is a manipulative ass. It’s pretty clear that he knows Rako is Obi-Wan, or at the very least suspects it. 

He has an interesting reaction upon learning Rako’s identity, he keeps praising him despite his usual distaste for low-lifes, he smirks secretively after Eval says “I’ll show you who’s weak” (not included there because it’s a close-up of Dooku’s lips and no one wants to see that) and he tells Rako he’s very disappointed when he doesn’t finish off Eval.

[Later]

(Look at this smug asshole - I can’t. YOUR GRANDSON IS THE BEST, WE KNOW, STOP ACTIVELY RUINING HIS LIFE ALREADY.)

(Dooku... why...)

Now obviously Dooku couldn’t have made the Box specifically for Obi-Wan, because it would have to have been designed months before the Council ever decided to send Obi-Wan undercover, but he has no qualms trying to use it to push Obi-Wan to the Dark Side. Ffs Dooku, making your spiritual grandson relive one of the most traumatic events of his life on the off chance that he’ll join you (and desecrate his Master’s memory in doing so) is not okay!

Final tidbits of analysis: I mentioned that not all of TPM is mirrored in the Box. What’s omitted is the droids (even though Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon fight B1′s and droidekas between the dioxis and the ventilation shafts) and anything pertaining to Sidious (all the political stuff on Coruscant). You’ll also note that the fake lightsabers are orange.

=> The Box distances itself from anything that connects Dooku to Naboo. Red lightsabers are the trademark of the Sith, so they’re not used. The bounty hunters will be facing Jedi, so logically the fake sabers should be green or blue - and yet they’re orange, the color closest to red without being red. It fits with Dooku’s special brand of dishonesty - he always tells bits of the real story but twists them just enough to absolve himself of any fault and to justify his choices. 

(”We can destroy the Sith” -> could maybe destroy Sidious with Obi-Wan, but fails to mention he’s a Sith Lord himself; “the Viceroy came to me for help, that’s why I’m attacking the Republic” -> political idealism is a small part of it, but fails to mention he’s Sidious’ underling and is playing the Viceroy like a fiddle; “Qui-Gon would have joined me” -> maybe, still fails to mention he’s working for the man who ordered Qui-Gon’s death; “I told you everything you needed to know” -> debatable, never said that Palps was Sidious; “Sifo-Dyas understood, that’s why he helped me” -> partly true, doesn’t admit to killing Sifo-Dyas right after getting his help)

So we have a twisted version of Naboo, droid-free (as droids are now irrevocably associated with Dooku, even if that wasn’t the case in TPM) and with sabers that aren’t quite red. Keep in mind that Dooku had already fallen by TPM. (We know this because he killed Sifo-Dyas and created the Clone Army - part of Sidious’ plan - when Valorum was still Chancellor, as per the episode The Lost One.) That means Dooku was (in)directly complicit in Qui-Gon’s death. And the Box doesn’t (=refuses to?) acknowledge that. 

(Also omitted in the Box are the Gungans and Tatooine. It makes sense, because Dooku probably wouldn’t have the full details regarding those parts of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan’s missio as they weren’t as public, and would see them as irrelevant if he did. He utterly despises Anakin, and Gungans are the type of people he always dismisses out of hand). 

Anyway, that’s my two cents about the Box. To quote Lucas...

“It’s like poetry. It rhymes.”

Thanks to @lethebantroubadour @impossiblybluebox​ @nonbinarywithaknife @ytoz​ and @kaitie85386​ for voting for this one. Next up is a compilation of the Jedi being casually tactile with each other (because they’re a warm and affectionate culture, dammit).

Also thanks to @laciefuyu​ for giving me gifs I ended up not using ^^; you rock anyway!

[gffa]

Scattered Star Wars Thoughts: - I’m not sure how I feel about TCW being done.  I think I have less sadness about it because I came back to SW at a time where the first six seasons were already out and done, there was no hope for more, and then suddenly, wham!, there were more, in addition to something I’ve felt a lot when talking about The Rise of Skywalker and why it didn’t devastate me like it did so many others.  I mean, aside from that I liked it fine enough/didn’t hate it. There isn’t really any one SW Foundation for me anymore.  I don’t live and die by any one SW experience.  The PT movies are my heart and soul, my foundation, and they’ve been over for 15 years.  Anything else is gravy on top of that for me, so TCW has always been a supportive story to the PT movies for me.  Rebels was a supportive story to the PT/OT movies for me.  Hell, even the ST movies were a supportive story to the OT movies for me.  (Though, I think it’s fair that others consider them their SW Foundation, there’s a huge amount of people who built their SW fannishness on those movies specifically.) I also feel like, are we probably ever going to get more TCW animated episodes?  Ehhh, probably not.  But who knows.  We would have said the same exact thing before this season itself was announced.  So, part of me feels like the door isn’t really shut, the other part of me is ready to be hyped for whatever comes next because I’m always hyped for whatever comes next, and it’s not like I’ll never see these characters again.  There’s already an anthology book coming out for TCW, there’s a mini-series in the comics, there’s another Padme book coming, etc. I don’t begrudge anyone else for being sad, TCW meant a lot to a lot of people, it was their SW Foundation and they built their fannishness on it, and I wish you guys all the luck in not being too bummed out about it.  But my experiences are a little different and you know how I love to navel gaze on this stuff. - A few interesting bits from the Entertainment Tonight interview with Dave Filoni: - He mentioned that he had to go back and rewatch a lot of stuff from this era because the politics of the era had kind of slipped out of his head, which confirms something that I’d been feeling, that there feels like a very noticeable shift between this season and previous seasons.  I’m pretty okay with the content of the canon itself, I think it fits pretty well, but it’s interesting to note that I wasn’t just imagining things.  (I’m not saying he didn’t get back into that mindset, only that, as he says, things have shifted over time and I had a strong feeling that there was a lot of drift back and forth here.) - One thing I’ve always really liked about Dave is that he’s mentioned that he has reasons for doing things in the story, but he often doesn’t like to explain them, because he wants fans to be able to speculate on them, and he said a really nice thing--sometimes fans come up with interpretations or connections that are really amazing and even better than what he himself intended. As someone who has growing increasingly wary of across-the-board agreeing with word of god commentary (I love you guys, but it’s increasingly clear that, even with all his faults, no one is the next George Lucas), that was really nice to hear. Scattered Star Wars Thoughts/2020 Resolutions Update: - Star Wars: The Clone Wars s07e12 - Star Wars: The Clone Wars Cast Reunion Challenge - JAT Clone Wars chat Current total:  236/260 Scattered Everything Else Thoughts/ 2020 Resolutions Update: - For Life s01e01 Current total:  290/260 Star Wars Fic Recs 2020 Resolutions Update Current total written:  219/520

[reydjarinkenobi]

I think that there’s something that people tend to forget about the Jedi: there are only 10,000 of them and that’s at the start of the war.

I agree with the sentiment that the Jedi have stagnated (the low numbers) and that the war has forced them to undermine what they were originally intended to do. However, that is the whole tragedy of the situation. The Jedi are conscripted as generals in a war that they didn’t want to happen and both the people and the Jedi are suffering for it.

The people on the republic and the fandom unreasonably expect the Jedi to be able to fix every problem in the galaxy. However, there are thousands of worlds in the republic (probably more) and the fact of the matter is that there are only so many Jedi. By season 7 of the clone wars, the Jedi numbers are at an all time low, the fact of the matter is that they physically cannot help everyone. Content that shows Jedi before CW shows that they did have people in the slave rings, in Coruscant on corrupt planets, trying to fix the galaxy, but they only have so much power.

People expect the Jedi to be able to do everything, call them power hungry and child snatchers and stuck up. (Although, I will conced that there are some Jedi who are stuck up and too removed from the people to be able to truly relate to them, which is, I think, one of the two main issues with the Jedi Order we see in the CW).

However, the Jedi we see are at their most powerless. The corruption in the senate and the political machinations of palpatine mean that they are more enslaved to the senate than ever. Though some people may view them as such, the Jedi are not gods, they cannot perform miracles. In fact; how can you call the Jedi power hungry when it is their inherent lack of power and influence within the senate that had them in this situation. We see how much power they have lost between TPM and CW, where Qui-Gon could be sent on a mission with just a personal request from a politician (the chancellor at the time was the one that asked them to go to the aide Naboo because the Senate would not vote to help them. And at the time, the chancellor didn’t have nearly as much power as palpatine does. The republic was at piece and the chancellor mostly acted as a mediator for the senate rather than the almost absolute ruler palps is by CW). Now the Jedi are forced to do what the senate says, and because of this position that they were sourced into, even their own internal matters are often brought before the senate.

This isn’t even counting the fact that Sidious is literally clouding the Force. It is stated multiple times in the movies and in the shows as well as having been outright told to us by Lucas the Palps is using a very powerful force technique which basically fucks up the Jedi’s ability to use the Force to sense deception and find the truth. (See the million times Yoda or some other master says the Force is clouded.)

I agree that the Jedi Order should have taken the threat of the Sith far more seriously than they did after TPM. However, there also hadn’t been a Sith on their radar for one thousand years. Yoda, the oldest Jedi, had never seen a Sith. It is understandable that the Jedi would try and deny their resurgence, since it’s natural that they would not want that to happen. This is a failure of the Jedi Order. In this case, they react out of fear which definitely contributes to their later downfall.

However, Palps gives no indication to people that he is anything other than a (possibly corrupt) politician. The Jedi can’t sense him and they would have no reason to think he’s a Sith Lord. They can sense that Dooku is a Sith, they could sense that Maul is a darksider. There is no reason that the Jedi should think that there is a Sith that can completely mask his darkness because they have never encountered someone like that before.

As for the baby snatchers, I mean come on, seriously? In the CW, there is literally an episode which shows that the Jedi do encourage people to hand their children over, but by no reason force them. Anakin was an unprecedented event and the Council would actually have preferred that Anakin grow up with his mother (although they did address the whole Shmi situation incredibly wrong, they should have freed her. However, that then feeds into the fact that they would then be morally obligated to free all the slaves on Tattooine which would mean taking on the Hutts, which the Jedi did not have the resources to do.) if the Jedi were baby snatchers, there would not only be 10,000 of them. They would steal any child that had any semblance of force power, as we know that with enough dedication and training even someone who has average raw power can become very skilled and powerful (Obi-Wan being the best example).

Again I want to emphasise how few Jedi there were. That is 10,000 total. Not 10,000 knights and masters , 10,000 including all the Padawans and younglings and masters so old they can’t fight anymore. (I don’t know if this includes the corps workers in this but we can assume their number isn’t that much larger). That’s 10,000 across the entire galaxy. To put that into perspective, the Rebellion at the end of the OT had 1 billion people across the galaxy, and they were still reported as a relatively small movement. The Jedi would be a small organisation even if they operated just on modern day Earth. And by this point in the CW, the Jedi have even lower numbers.

Ahsoka’s anger in the latest episode is entirely justified. She was scapegoated for a crime she did not commit. Yes all evidence pointed to her and objectively she could have been charged, but she had sacrificed so much for the Order by that point, she rightfully believes she should have early their trust. (Although, I do think both Plo Koon and Obi-Wan argued for her, but in the absence of evidence were only able to vouch for her from her strength of character, which really doesn’t cut it in that sort of investigation).

Her frustration at the order’s inability to help the people like it had been before the war is reasonable. The Jedi should be helping people like Trace and Rafa, and before the war they would have. Now the Jedi are caught up in trying to stop the Separatists invading and enslaving entire worlds. That whole situation is for another post because this one is way too long already and I haven’t even gotten to my point.

I think Ahsoka’s accusation that the Jedi are too involved in politics (even though her attack at Obi-Wan is also personal because of her thinking that he didn’t try and help her before, which is correct from her perspective. Obi-Wan was obligated to go with the Council’s decision and was powerless to fight i and uggfgh that scene hurts me because my two favourite characters are fighting) is ironic since it was the Jedi’s separation from politics which got them into that situation in the first place. If the Jedi had had a representative in the Senate, or hell, even more people dedicated to monitoring the politics of the Senste, they may have been able to circumvent the war before it even started or at least give themselves a little more agency in this war.

Ahsoka’s argument is ultimately unfair in my opinion even though she is making a very relevant point. The Jedi have, at this stage, stopped functioning in the capacity that they were originally supposed to. However, there is nothing they can do to stop it at this stage.

I think people are forgetting the absolute genius of TCW and that PT in that it is one of the hugest examples of dramatic irony in modern day narratives. Yes, from an outside perspective, I can say that the Jedi were too removed from the people and were failing to uphold their values. I can see that palpatine is manipulating everything and that he is the Sith Lord. However, the thing is the characters can’t. If I was a Jedi, I would be too blinded by this war and keeping my men alive whilst also trying to stop the Separatists to pay attention to the intricacies of the Senate, if I was a citizen, I would see this war and the Jedi leading it and demonise them because they are the most visible people for me to hoist my resentment on. Padmé states that the war is affecting the people. The republic are in debt and their support network for their people is suffering because of it.

Yes, the Jedi should have done a lot of things differently. Yes there are Jedi (particularly some on the council) who are up themselves. But the Order as a whole is not to blame. Jedi as a people are largely just trying to do the right thing. They lead their men because if they don’t the Seperatists will continue to take over worlds and enslave them. They are forced to make impossible decisions and it is destroying them. We see this in Ahsoka’s resentment, we see it in the way Anakin is so desperately trying to hold on to both Obi-Wan and Ahsoka, we see it in the absolute defeat that we can see in Obi-Wan in this episode.

Let’s not forget that Sidious is the real bad guy here and that he is a genius at manipulation. By this stage in the CW, the Jedi are powerless to save themselves and the galaxy. We can blame anyone else all we want but ultimately this is a terrible tragedy and the Jedi do not deserve what is about to happen to them.

[padawanlost]

I've read somewhere that when the Jedi took over command of the Clone Army they forbade some of the more morally questionable practices the Kaminoans were applying to the Clones, so there was certainly a basis for them to see that the Clones were treated as living beings and not property. Yet then one has to wonder why they didn't go the whole road & elevated the Clones into the regular standing army of the Republic with all benefits that would encompass. Again hiding behind the Senate perhaps?

Have youever heard of the myth of the good slaver? It’s a reasoning that people whodirectly or indirectly profited from slavery (monetarily or not) use to justifytheir own “goodness”. It’s something like this: I didn’t beat my slaves toooften, therefore, I wasn’t a bad person, I was a good slave master. It takesyou away from the evil slavery represents by focusing on the “good”. However,people who seek this type of moral rationalization forget that there’s no thingas a good slave master because slavery is inherently wrong. You can’t abusesomeone “the right way” or gently strip someone of their agency. The idea thereis a good way you can harm someone or profit from someone being harmed is amyth. Hence, the myth of the good slaver.

It’s true.The Jedi Order did try to improve the clones situation by allowing them to havenames and stopping the kaminoans from executing the “faulty” ones. Yet, theyalso referred to them as property (Shaaki Ti in TCW), helped to keep themenslaved, sacrificed them on the battlefield, did nothing to have themrecognized as citizens and human beings, etc. As we discussed earlier, the Jediwere capable of doing both good and bad. And this situation is no difference.

However, weare talking about slavery and, unfortunately, the myth of the good slaver is apervasive one within the fandom. I see it every time a discussion about theJedi’s role in the clone enslaves starts and someone will go: “but…”. That but is dangerous. it diminishes what slavery is and the evil itrepresents. There’s no buts when it comes to slavery. It’s wrong and those who playa role in it are by default culpable.  

Peopleargue that there’s only so much they could have done and that’s true. Theycouldn’t change the will of the Senate overnight. But these same fans also usethat argument to exempt the Jedi from their role in the enslavement of clones,which leads back to the myth of the good slaver. There’s a difference betweenbeing unable to single-handedlychange a society cultural and legal issues overnightand being unwilling to try (or becoming part of the problem).

Let’s putthings in perspective: slavery was a crime within the Republic but the clone enslavement was sanctioned. They found a loophole by claiming the clones werecitizens and the only way to revert the situation was to change the law andculture that allowed this loophole to go unchecked (the civilians). Thissituation is not that different from what happened in RL. Slavery was frownedup until they needed slaves so they found a loophole saying black people didn’tcount.

Just likein the GFFA, a group, any group, couldn’t single-handedlyrevert the situation. Butyou know what people did? they tried. A lot of people risked their lives andmade a lot of enemies to try to change things, to help people. they knew the situationhad to change and the change had to come from somewhere. The Order went in the oppositedifferent. instead of trying to undermined such evil system, they took controlof it. And that’s why the idea that the jedi were victims of this enslavement orhad no control over it is nothing but empty rationalization. When it comes toslavery, if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem.

We shouldnot held them responsible for the actions of the Senate, the kaminoans or thecivilian population. But we can, and must, held them accountable for their own choices.and their choice was this: they had the choice between controlling a slave armyor not. they said yes, and from that moment onthey were as responsible forthe clones enslavement as much as the senate and the citizens of the Republic whoknew this slave army was fighting and dying in their places.

Since weare talking about slavery and the Jedi, you know what really amazes me? Howmany of the fans who love apply the myth of the good slaver when justifying theJedi enslavement of clones, absolutely refuse to apply the same myth when it’sAnakin or Obi-wan being enslaved. There’s meta, fic, videos, etc about howslavery is wrong because it traumatizes Anakin, Obi-wan and Ahsoka. About how theZygerrian are the absolute worst, completely irredeemable for hurting thosepoor babys for a couple of days. Fair assessment. Strangely enough, those same fans feel the jedi andthe senate should no be held accountable for enslavement trillions of clones foryears.

Watto,Jabba, Gardulla and many other have been morally tainted by their role in slavery. They bought children and adults, stripped them of their agency, forcedthem work and harmed if they tried to leave. The Republic bought children andadults, stripped them of their agency (brainwashed them into being loyal),forced them work (fight) and harmed if they tried to leave (deserted werearrested). The Jedi allowed them to keep their names and personalities but….sodid Watto, Jabba and Gardulla.

I’m not saying the jedi are the same as Tatooine’s scum. I’m just pointing out that both cases deal with slavery and enslavement and that fandom only rationalizes the evils of slavery when it’s their faves doing the enslavement.

As for why theywent along with it, it’s simple: it served their purpose. They were too blindto see the evil they were helping to spread and Yoda himself said as much:

Yoda: Padawan,thousands of Jedi once there were. Then came war. In ourarrogance, join the conflict swiftly we did.Fear, anger, hate. Consumed by thedark side the Jedi were. // Ezra: Wasit wrong for the Jedi to fight? Is it wrong for me to protect my friends? // Yoda: Wrong? Hmm. A long time, fought I did. Consumed by fear I was, though see it I did not. // Ezra: You were afraid? // Yoda: Yes, afraid.

Consumed by the dark side their were and what is slavery? A tool of the dark side. In the end, they didn’t think things through. They, like Anakin, were consumed by fear and in their fearthey hurt a lot of people they should’ve been helping. To claim the Jedi didthe right thing by helping the senate to enslave clone not only is a grossmisrepresentation of what slavery is, it completely undermines their developmentas a characters.

Characters mistakes make themrelatable, it’s a sign of the proper development and it moves the plot forward.When we refuse to acknowledge this character make mistakes, we are actuallymaking a disservice to them by turning them into something lesser than they weremeant to be.

 What makes the Jedi Order so greatand rich in terms of world building is its many faults and contradictions. It’s agood organization that sometimes make terrible mistakes. That’s realistic, thatwell written and interesting. A organization that never does anything wrongever, is an organization we shouldn’t be able to relate to. By denying the harmthe Order caused by being complicit in the clones enslavement we diminish the alreadydisfranchised clones tragedy and we turn a really complex plot about politicalshortcomings into a basic black/white story where the all the bad is caused bythe one bad guy and all the good comes from the good guys. And this type ofnarrative, as fun as it can be sometimes, it’s not what the prequels set out tobe.

[legobiwan]

48,39,4,9,16 if you are up for it my dear?

But of course, my friend! 

48) What are your top five ships?

Hahaha, so I’ve often started a question like this by saying, “Well, The Negotiator and Dooku’s solar sailer, etc.” but I’ll not play coy this time. (Although, this prompted me to go read the Wookieepedia entry on Dooku’s ship and it is chock full of hilarity!)

“The independence afforded by such a unique ship enhanced Dooku’s mystique in Geonosian eyes, and a number of soldier drones even came to believe that Dooku’s ship flew by magic.”

DRAMA LINEAGE.

Anyway, I digress. As I’ve mentioned before, I’m not a huge shipper overall and much prefer family/found-family dynamics as it tends to push the right buttons for me (glean from that what you will). You all know my love of THE LINEAGE, so I won’t repeat myself with that but instead, I’ll give you five ships that either try to poke out while I’m writing or I can be convinced of some days if I’m in the right mood for it. (Basically, my default is not being too interested in shipping, but if it’s done well and with the right characters, I can be into it. I’m just very picky.)

Obi-wan and Cody (The subtext tends to appear a lot in my writing, although I never explore it). Obi-wan and Ventress (they really do have great chemistry in TCW). Obi-wan and Taria Damsin from the Gambit/Siege books (although I think I like them better as a platonic, intense friendship rather than anything romantic. Taria’s character was awesome. Her ending, however, was a bit of a bummer.) Obi-wan and Satine is interesting and something I’d like to write about at some point as it deals in some similar themes as Anakin and Padmé but playing out differently, so I’ll call that 4 and Obi-wan and Quinlan Vos 4.5 just because that can be a fun one when done well. And, for something a little different, I kind of read Dooku as having had some very secret, non-Jedi male partner back in the day. I guess that’s less of a ship than a headcanon, but it’s interesting to think about. 

39) Would you ever go podracing?

HELL YES. Sometimes I feel like my daily commute is a podrace given how people drive around here. 

4) Do you ship Anidala?

Ha! Now this is an interesting question. I might catch some flak for this, but my answer is unreservedly no. In my mind, Anakin and Padmé’s relationship is seriously flawed. They rush into marriage. Anakin has a possessive streak a parsec wide. And Padmé, I feel, gets caught up in this relationship because it’s secretive, it’s fun, it’s whirlwind and she’s someone who probably doesn’t get a lot of chances to date, given the enormous political responsibilities heaped on her shoulders from a young age. And so, she’s incredibly intelligent, but perhaps naive when it comes to that type of relationship, and I can see how she’d get drawn in by Anakin’s charisma, his genuine, if intense, feelings for her. It’s nice to be wanted, especially when there’s so much else going on in your life, when sycophantic politicians are trying to butter you up all the time. Anakin isn’t even supposed to be able to feel this way (I mean, according to an outsider’s view of the Jedi), and I suppose in some way that makes it more genuine to her? But a relationship built on secrets, where Anakin gets kind of controlling due to his own issues, that overlooks a mass murder (and I can understand why she does it, even if I can’t agree with the actions) - it’s just not healthy. Anakin has so many other issues to figure out before he could go near a relationship and Padmé needed time to just be outside of her work. And neither got that, which is how we ended up in disaster by the time of RotS. So, from a plot point, I get it. On a personal level, it mirrors too many situations I’ve seen in real life and so I’m very careful about exactly how I write Anakin and Padmé’s relationship. (Frankly, I think they’d be fantastic friends as they are very similar personalities. But as lovers - it’s unhealthy.)

9) Do you think Anakin was ever truly redeemed?

Yes? I think there is a longer conversation that he and Obi-wan (and a lot of other dead people) had to have had in the Force to make that call. I mean, he did a good thing by saving Luke and killing the Emporer, for certain, but part of redemption is living with the consequences of your actions (*coughcoughpagingacertaindeityofmischiefcoughcough*) and changing your behaviors, and so while I would characterize Anakin’s act as redemptive, I would like to have seen him if he had lived past Death Star II and/or went on his own Force journey a la Yoda to really make a definitive judgment. (And yes, I am aware there are many fanfics that cover this point :)

16) Least favorite ships?

Well, as I stated above, I’m not so into Anidala and by and large, I also don’t really get into Anakin/Obi-wan or Obi-wan/Qui-gon from a romantic/sexual standpoint. But I am definitely of the philosophy of ship and let ship so if that butters your muffin go ahead and eat that entire tray! I’ll just be in the cookie section instead with my LINEAGE feels :P

(ask me about star wars!)

[kaelinaloveslomaris]

What, according to you, are the reasons Anakin turned and Fell? What were the flaws of the Jedi Order? And who was to blame the most - The Jedi, Palpatine, or Anakin himself?

I think I’m going to lay most of the blame at Palpatine’s feet, even though ultimately it was Anakin who made the decision and stuck to it even once confronted by Padmé and Obi-Wan. By saying that, I’m not trying to absolve Anakin of his blame, I just don’t think he ever would have Fallen if not for Palpatine’s machinations, therefore it’s Old Wrinkly’s fault.

Anakin’s upbringing as a slave made him vulnerable. He was in a situation where he wasn’t allowed to say no or even express his opinions on things openly. His worth as a person was defined by his skills and his ability to follow orders and make himself useful. He was not able to learn how to properly deal with emotions, both negative and positive. He was already conditioned to be subservient.

Then the Jedi didn’t help. They further taught him to repress and hide his emotions, and he didn’t even have someone to talk to about them in private, like I’m assuming he had in Shmi as a child. Obi-Wan was fresh off the grief of losing his master and was not ready to take on a Padawan. Anakin was distrusted by the Council, by the other Jedi, and even by Obi-Wan himself. And the Jedi broke Anakin’s trust time and again. They belittled him, he was ostracized by his peers and shunned by his elders, even as they lauded him as their precious “Chosen One.”

Throughout his time as a Jedi, the only person he could turn to for a sympathetic ear was Palpatine, the old snake. He found a way to work his way into Anakin’s confidences and knew that showing any small kindness to this neglected child was the way to his heart and loyalty. And the Jedi didn’t do anything to stop it, even though his requests to see Anakin alone and just the sheer amount of time he spent with him should have thrown up red flags. But he flaunted his political power in the Jedi’s faces, and they just went with it. The Jedi should not have allowed Palpatine access to Anakin, especially not as vulnerable as he was, and that is one of their (many) major failings in handling Anakin.

I also think that Obi-Wan was not the right choice for Anakin’s master. Aside from him just not being ready to train someone, I don’t think he had the right personality to properly mesh with Anakin. He had a complete inability to vocalize or show in any way any type of affection. Someone like Plo Koon, who is more laid back and does have the ability to care for people, even if still stunted by Jedi dogma, would have been better.

Palpatine used all of this to twist Anakin’s thoughts, using his fears and insecurities and disillusionment and lack of faith in his fellow Jedi against him in subtle ways, turning it into anger and making himself even more into the only person Anakin could turn to. Of course, there was still Padmé, and you can see throughout the PT and TCW how hard Palpatine tried to kill her. She was the final anchor holding Anakin to his sanity and the Light, so he twisted even that. I firmly believe he was responsible for Anakin’s dream-visions of her death, and I also hold to the headcanon that he drained her life force to keep Anakin alive on the operating table.

Anakin made the final decision. He could have stayed in the Council chamber, he could have helped Mace kill Palpatine, heck, he could even have killed Palpatine himself when he first realized he was the Sith Master, but he didn’t. He chose to Fall, he chose to pledge himself to Palpatine and the Dark Side, and then he rejected Padmé’s offer to come back and run away with her, choosing instead to attack her and fight Obi-Wan. So I’m not absolving him of his blame or shifting responsibility off his shoulders. But I do think he never would have even come close to that point without Palpatine’s interference.

[selcier]

I don't know about Satine yet since I haven't watched TCW yet but how you feel about Satine is honestly how I feel about P@dm3(and @n1d@l@). I wish I could like her but I don't, so I usually don't express my negative opinions since almost everyone(if not everyone) in this fandom really likes her and though I can respect that I don't expect people to be understanding of my opinions. It's good to see that you are not alone in your opinion on Satine.

Sorry for the late response Anon! I have alot of thoughts about all of this and wanted to give you a full response. It also helps me organize my own ideas about canon.

Be forewarned: I have many negative thoughts about these two ladies - much to my own displeasure. 

Lets start with Satine: If you haven’t seen TCW yet, there isn’t much else about her. As for the core of her character, I love the dimension she brings to the story. She’s stubborn, in control, doesn’t back down from her ideals and has political view that aren’t shared by many other character (none that I can think of). Her character has a drive (and goals) that sets her apart from other flat background characters. She is, overall, a strong, well-rounded character.

However, I feel as though she was created explicitly for the purpose of forcing Obi-wan to make hard decisions. Now, I love throwing stones at characters - I love that it makes them have agency. They have to make a decision instead of just ho-humming along with the plot. Satine does this for Obi-wan. 

But, perhaps its the context of TCW and it’s episodic formula; but, she pops in, makes his life hell for a few episodes, that then pop back out like nothing ever happened. (Of course, this happens with other episodes as well, with is a general complaint. Alas, we can’t have everything.) Where was the ongoing struggle? Was this women really so important that in never came up before they met and never came up again? 

I much prefer her interactions with Padme. They talk about politics, not men or romantic encounters. They share ideas and hopes and dreams. There’s no ‘oh god but this was so forbidden’ undercurrent between them. 

And perhaps my dislike comes from the fact that apparently, even though Anakin clearly comments on Obi-wan and Satine’s ‘not-relationship,’ he still feels as though Obi-wan is keeping secrets from him? That he can’t be trusted with Anakin’s own situation? 

Or perhaps its just the nature of this (children’s) show that throws me off. I want to like Satine. I like her as her own person. But I cannot see the appeal of Obitine. All the romance they had together was one mission where something went wrong over 15 years ago. These types of relationships, while thrilling, aren’t designed to last. 

Which brings me to Padme. Sigh. Her character, while interesting and well-rounded in TPM does shift through RoTS. She has wants, needs and goals. She has something she’s working towards - something that doesn’t have to do with someone else (Anakin’s) agenda. 

Then, I feel like her character takes a turn in RoTS. Suddenly, there is no more of her work in the Senate. Her only job is to be a plot device to further Anakin’s fall. And, its been said on this site many times: its is awesome that she desperately wants a family and to be a mother. That’s her choice, and while I don’t have those same goals, I can appreciate that it’s her decision. 

However, that being said, the end of RoTS is disappointment for that very reason. Suddenly, a women who was passionate and never gave up, dies on the table because she’s lost he will to live. Its something out of a fairy tale - a poorly written one. She just gave birth. She has (almost) what she wanted. The bond between a mother and child is more than emotions; its literally chemicals in the brain that cause mothers to bond with their young. Her will to live here should have been stronger than ever. 

Now, I understand that for plot purposes, something had to happen. But there are so many other ways to have this be a more believable scene. I’ll not go into that here. 

But going back to TCW; I love Padme in this! Yes, she is still attached to Anakin, but she still actively pursues her own goals and interests. He is a part of their life, but not a star that she has to orbit around. She has conversations with people that don’t involve his name. She as her own agency. But, yet, he’s there in the background and you know that they are happy to see each other. This is the only time I have been able to get behind their relationship. 

In AoTC, I can’t see it. They met once, when he was nine. And then they had a total of three conversations. They’re relationship has no substance. Nothing, accept one shared experience. And its not the age difference that gets me - its everything else. If i were in a writing class and turned that relationship in, my professor would say: “these characters actions don’t support this ending - there’s no justification.” 

Relationships aside, it isn’t as though I dislike Padme’s core character. I love it. What I dislike, its such an extreme shift in there character. I could even say that I love a character that has always followed the whims of their significant other and has not real goals of their own. That’s still a well written character. What isn’t a well written character is one whose personality shifts so dramatically. The reader needs reasons for this shift. I don’t think I understand what Padme’s were. That she was so in love with Anakin that she abandoned all the goals that she had worked so hard for? From personal experience, I do sometimes see that motherhood changes people. Hormones are confusing things. And I can’t discount that in Padme’s situation.

I guess, I just wanted more for her. 

And please, if anyone would like to add anything, please feel free! I would be happy to hear alternative meta about either of these ladies and would welcome evidence to change my mind! Also, this doesn’t discount the actions of certain other men in the show, I’m just not going to get into that here. 

[marybeatriceofmodena]

what do you think of anisoka?

I like it! To be honest, in canon itself, I see it very much as a sibling kind of dynamic. Ahsoka is basically the little sister Anakin never had, and I love their dynamic. 

As for Anisoka in a romantic context… As I said, their dynamic never hadany romantic undertones: they had pet nicknames (Snips and Skyguy), theybickered and teased each other, but they were always way more like brother andsister and never had the respectful distance you’d usually see in master andpadawan relationships, unless they were in front of members of the Jedi Counciland had to behave as such. 

They were also very similar incharacter: what I think happened for TCW is that some characteristics Anakinshowed in the movies were taken away from him and given to Ahsoka. It resultedin an Anakin who was way more sympathetic and relatable for a lot of people,while said characteristics Ahsoka got from Anakin never made her annoying, butrather endearing.

Throughout their time together, therewere many times where Anakin and Ahsoka showed behavior when they were together(Anakin alone is another matter) that wasn’t quite “proper Jedi behavior”. Buton the other hand, it was never really presented as them acting all “Dark Side”either. You could actually say they were in a grayer area.  

But what made all the difference wasthat Ahsoka was a LOT more emotionally stable than Anakin, and despite all thehardships she went through, she kept a solid moral compass and a kind heart, nomatter what. 

This leads me to compare how Anakinbehaves around Padmé, and how he behaves around Ahsoka. He loved them both, very, very much:they were the two people he loved the most along with Obi-Wan and his mother.They were his family when he had none left: Padmé was the love of his life,Obi-Wan his brother and mentor and Ahsoka his little sister. But Padmé andAhsoka were both very different in their own way. 

Padmé was a brilliant lady: shebecame Queen of Naboo at fourteen years old, gave a big lucky finger to theSenate and went to save her planet on her own from the Trade Federation, wasone of the most illustrious Senators of her time and set the bases for theRebellion along with Bail Organa and Mon Mothma. She was kind and idealistic,and those were her biggest assets as well as the catalysts to her downfall.

When she first met Anakin, he wasstill a sweet, innocent little boy: what didn’t help is that even afterwards,she kept on seeing him that way, up to Attackof the Clones, and she realized how truly damaged Anakin was when it wastoo late.

It also didn’t help that she wasn’tForce-sensitive, and a marriage between a Force-sensitive and anon-Force-sensitive having complications or misunderstandings seems to beA-Thing in the Galaxy Far Far Away. Han and Leia are another example, and thishas repercussions on their son, how he is now (though it’s not the only cause,of course), and perhaps even the fate of the galaxy, and that’s not unlikeAnakin and Padmé: but that’s a discussion for another day.

Anakin did genuinely love Padmé, morethan anything. But he was always taught to repress his emotions, and wasencouraged to “let go of everything he feared to lose”. Considering thatmourning has different stages, going straight to acceptance is very unhealthy.As a result, Anakin was very much an emotional trainwreck, and that’s what ledhim to become so possessive of Padmé. 

Anakin and Padmé are very much theRomeo and Juliet of Star Wars: inAOTC, they were two teenagers forced to grow up way too quickly and who clungto each to each other by believing the other might be an anchor to what appearsto be a “normal life”. But as Padmé said in the Clovis arc in TCW, it was amarriage built on lies and deceit. 

Anakin’s downfall came from beingunable to accept fate and becoming obsessed with protecting his loved ones atall costs, even if it meant destroying other people’s lives. All of this isn’tPadmé’s fault, of course, since she’s very much a victim in all this mess, butshe was an unwilling catalyst. This, unfortunately, leads me to declare thatwhile Anakin and Padmé did love each other, Padmé was the one who brought outthe worst in Anakin.

It didn’t help either that wheneverAnakin was upset, Padmé would always receive the other end. Of course, hewasn’t verbally or physically abusive with her: but for Anakin, she was theonly person he could vent to about his frustrations and his pains. He knew hecouldn’t do that with Obi-Wan, since he didn’t trust him enough for that, andbecause he would probably shoot something not very helpful like “Remember theJedi code” or something. Padmé, on the other hand, was either too nice, toopolite, or a mix of both to tell Anakin to get a grip on himself. Or maybe shealso thought that Anakin did need to vent, which isn’t a bad thing in itself:but as I said, Padmé still saw Anakin as the sweet little boy from Tatooine, soit often ended up with her not seeing the gravity of Anakin’s situation.  

What about Ahsoka? 

What makes the difference is thatAhsoka was a lot more emotionally stable than Anakin and even Padmé. She didn’texactly follow the “no attachments” rule to a T, but in hard or even unhealthysituations, she knew when to let go and even when to leave. That’s what led herto leave the Jedi Order behind when she couldn’t trust them anymore, instead ofclinging to them like Anakin did. He didn’t trust the Jedi Council, but hestayed with them nonetheless because it provided him a sense of stability.Ahsoka, on the other hand, was willing to accept to go plunge into the unknown,for her own sake. That was how she coped: she walked away. 

Because of that level-headedness,Ahsoka was a lot more efficient at standing up to Anakin. Not that Padméwasn’t: but her not being able to take off her “little-Ani-goggles”,her emotional needs, and her lack of Force-sensitivity made her blind toAnakin’s pull towards the Dark Side. And that’s the tragedy of Padmé Amidala. 

No offense, Padmé, I still love you. 

But let’s just say overall thatdespite being Luke and Leia’s parents, and despite their love for each other,Anakin and Padmé were actually pretty badly suited for each other, especiallygiven the circumstances. 

Ahsoka, on the other hand, was neverafraid of calling Anakin out on his BS. And it worked.

She understood Anakin, more thananyone else could, and Anakin knew that. Heck, she even knew he was miserable in the Jedi Order. Like it or not, she was the onlyperson he knew he could fully trust. That was something he could do with anyoneelse, not even Padmé or Obi-Wan. They were more equals than Master and Padawan,and because Anakin truly felt comfortable around Ahsoka, she was the one whobrought out the best in him.  

Seriously, though, watch Anakin inseason 6, after Ahsoka has left. Behavior-wise, he has definitely regressed.

Also, as I said, while Anakin alwaysvented on Padmé, since she was the only person who didn’t tell him to shut upabout his frustrations, and since Obi-Wan would probably give him somenot-so-helpful advice, he didn’t really do it with Ahsoka. The reason why,though, is different: he knew he had to be a big brother figure to her, so ofcourse, he had to hold back. But the thing is, she provided him a gooddistraction from his ProblemsTM. That was actually very beneficialfor Anakin. He always protected Ahsoka at all costs, but at the same time, heknew he could trust her and that she would never let him down. And she didn’t,even when she discovered he had become Darth Vader.

So long story short: what Anakinneeded at all times was someone like Ahsoka. 

Could have the galaxy’s fate beenentirely different if Ahsoka had been a few years older and Anakin had fallenin love with her instead? Probably, yes. But still, honestly, I wouldn’t besurprised if Palpatine was the true mastermind behind Barriss’ terrorist attackon the Jedi Temple to frame Ahsoka and get rid of her in one way or another. WithAhsoka around, even Revenge of the Sithitself might have been different.

tl;dr So, basically, if Ahsoka was a few years older, could I see Anisoka happening? Definitely. 

[theabominableblogger]

Rewatching “Attack of the Clones”

Why yes, I am doing this.  Because why not?

My apologies in advance because this post is so long...

*starts singing the Star Wars theme*

ARMY OF THE REPUBLIC!

OK, now you it’s a bad sign when they pan up.

They did it in Rogue One but I’m excusing that movie because it’s awesome

“There was no danger after all.”  Bullshit, Typo.

*Corde dies*  AND THEY BLOW YOU UP!  BOOM!

Wait, there’s an Imperial siren going off in the background.

PLO KOON!

Barriss!

Sly Moore!

LUMINARA!!!

Plo Koon’s prosthetics look terrible in the movies

Is that Uncle Ono from TCW in the hologram?

*starts imitating Ki Adi Mundi when he says “He’s [Dooku] a political idealist, not a murderer.” *

Fun Fact:  the guy who plays Ki Adi Mundi is the Ood in “Doctor Who.”  Mind blown.

I hate Obi-Wan’s mullet in this movie.

Obi-Wan’s like “freaking get me outta here” when Anakin compliments Padme

You can tell how much makeup they put on Natalie Portman in this scene.

“It’s overkill, Master.”  Obi-Wan’s the kill master...

“She hardly even recognized me...”  God dang it, Anakin.

*Jango Fett hands off the assassin centipedes*  God the green screen...

She [Padme] has the most unnatural sleeping position

Man, I feel bad for all the actors in the prequels.

How is R2 asleep and not hearing those bugs??

Fun Fact:  the SFX team used grapefruit to make the noises of the centipedes

OK, you’d be able to feel a bug crawling up your arm.

Imagine if Anakin freaking beheads Padme instead of the centipedes?

Cue end music.

“Stay here!”  BUT I...

Anakin, just fly freaking straight!

Gotta dramatically take my face cover off...

“I hate it when he does that.”

Which implies Anakin has done this before...

Anakin climbing on top of the bounty hunter’s airspeeder is almost exactly like Kanan on top of Fenn Rau’s ship in “The Protector of Concord Dawn“ except Kanan doesn’t lose his lightsaber.

OUR RIDE’S HERE!

Here’s a challenge:  try to identify all the freaking alien species in this Coruscant bar

Must be a Halloween party going on...

Did she just say “sleamo?”

Yep, I think she’s dead, Anakin.

SHAAK TI!

Yeah, you’re [Jedi Council] gonna let this horny 19 year old Padawan escort the love of his life back to her home without anyone else to help out.

GREEN SCREEEEEEEENNN!!

*Padme tells Jar Jar to fill her place in the Senate while she’s away*  Nooo....

The window cleaning droids!

Those are some huge ass robes on Anakin

Oh my God, Anakin...

“Sorry, m’lady.”  *groans*

I didn’t realize Padme’s handmaiden was crying!  Now I feel sad now!

OK, they can tell Anakin’s a Padawan:  he has his braid still in!  At least bobby pin in so that it blends in!

YOU WANNA CUP OF JAWA JUICE????

I freaking love this scene between Dexter and Obi-Wan.  Shut up.

Ewan McGregor’s got a little dimple or something on his forehead and I can’t stop looking at it.

“Hey, no droids!  Get out of here!”  says a droid

Padme just really likes wearing doilies in this movie.

AN:  Heads up, we’re only fifty minutes in at this point.

“We are encouraged to love.”  That’s a really loose interpretation, Anakin.

Take a shot every time Anakin says something really creepy about Padme in this movie.

*Obi Wan talks in the youngling class*  [gasp] Imagine if one of them is Kanan?

I don’t know whether or not he was an Initiate at this point.

*goes to consult the “Last Padawan” comic*

Wow, sudden scene change within a sentence!

SIO BIBBLE!

OH MY GOD, ANAKINNNNNNN....

The voice of Lama Su (Anthony Phelan) is so cool.

I DON’T LIKE SAND.  IT’S COARSE AND ROUGH AND IRRITATING AND IT GETS EVERYWHERE.

*DEEP INHALE*

There was literally no point to that scene other than to give Anakin and Padme an opportunity to kiss.

*whispers*  One of those clones is Rex....

So many freakin’ CGI clones...

And now a picnic...

“They [Jedi mind tricks] only work on the weak-minded.”  That’s a compliment, Padme.

“I’d be much too frightened to make fun of a Senator.”  But I am anyway!!!

*Anakin rides one of those living potatoes*  Behold, the Chosen One.

*Anakin falls off*  SO FAKE!!!

*Anakin and Padme roll around*  They’re not even on a hill!

*deep inhale*

I love how they got the same kid who played Boba Fett here back to play Boba in TCW

What’s with these weird close ups?

*Jango tells Boba something*  Please someone teach me how to speak Mandao’a.

Damn, look at the cuts on Jango’s face.

Apparently, George Lucas told Hayden Christensen and Natalie Portman to improvise in the “aggressive negotiations with a lightsaber” scene but it went really NSFW really quick so they had to stop after the “negotiations with a lightsaber” line.

God, why does Padme wear that halter dress in THIS scene?

There is no reason why she should have changed from the previous scene.

God, you can tell how nonexistent the chemistry is.

“I’m haunted by the kiss you should never have given me.”  Well wait a minute, you kissed each other back and Anakin initiated it!

“My heart is beating, hoping that kiss does not become a scar.”

*GRIMACES IN IMMENSE PAIN*

God, Anakin, do you have to be so ANGRY?!?

WHY DOES PADME NOT SAY ANYTHING?!?

“You are asking me to be rational.”  YES, BE RATIONAL!!

*groans*  The dialogue in this freaking scene...

So they kinda vaguely wrap up the whole Sifo-Dyas C-plot in TCW but even then, we’re like WTH?

*Yoda says the Jedi can’t use the Force*  That’s like saying the Pope can’t talk to God.

“Jedi don’t have nightmares.”  Lies.

“I have to help her.”  *groans*

Slave I!

Obi-Wan, that lightsaber is your life.

Oh my God, the green screen!

Sorry, Obi-Wan, you would have no arm left after that stop.

Jango freaking bumped his head on the door...

What is with Padme’s costume here?

What is this explosion disc thing Jango uses to try to get rid of Obi-Wan?

*in best young Boba Fett voice* GET ‘IM, DAD, GET ‘IM!  FI-YAH!

Just a random thought:  what do the clones in TCW think of the Fetts?

I love this shadow shot of Anakin and Padme saying goodbye.

This is “Duel of the Fates!”  Why is it playing here?

Unless they’re referring to the fact that Anakin’s fate changes whether or not his mother is alive or not.  That sort of thing.

How do the Separatists not know Padme is still alive?  Unless Anakin does such a good job at hiding Padme on Naboo and Tatooine...

“The banking clan will sign your treaty!”  *in best alien voice*  ALSO I GOT MY HEAD STUCK IN A CAR DOOR!

This staccato music here when Anakin sneaks into the Tusken Raider camp is actually kinda cool.

The ten-second mother-son chemistry between Hayden Christensen and Pernilla August is probably the most compelling thing in this movie.

This music though.

Oh my God, the way Mace sits down!

OK Anakin, explain this body [Shmi’s corpse].

“OK, Hayden, just glare at the screen.  There ya go.”

“I’m good at fixing things.”  You know what you have to fix though?  Your mental state.

What is this hippie dress Padme’s wearing?

“I killed them.”  Did you kill them all?

“I killed them all.”  They’re all right, right?”

“They’re dead.”  Oh, so just the men.

“Not just the men.“  Oh, but like the old men?

“But the women-”  What?!?  But not the children!

“-and the children too.”  But they’re people!

“They’re like animals!  And I slaughtered them like animals!”  But you don’t hate them!

“I hate them!”

“To be angry is to be human.”  To kill Sand People divine.

Anakin is the worst friend ever.  His father figure is being held captive, and what does he do?  Listen to the Council like a sissy.

Oh my God, freaking Jar Jar, no...

Why does Obi-Wan’s ray shield cell spinny?

Wait, I forgot Dooku trained Qui-Gon!

“Dellow felegates.”  *immediately slams head on desk*

Oh my gosh, pterodactyls!

“I love democracy.  I love the Republic.”   I love it.. so much!

“I’m not a freaking goblin.”  says the freaking goblin.

*Anakin and Padme sneak through a tunnel on Geonosis*  This is like “The Great Mouse Detective,” where Basil and Dawson go through the sewer pipe to get to Ratigan’s lair.

When I was little, I used to be able to imitate and time the smashing machine on the assembly line.

*3PO gets into a mess*  Just... erase this whole gag entirely.

*rolls eyes loudly*

How did Anakin not see that mechanical arm swinging toward his face?

Ani, you have no arm at this point.

Imagine if Padme gets burned by lava.

None of the original trilogy happens.  Cue end credits music.

“Not again.  Obi-Wan’s gonna kill me.”

*in best Obi-Wan voice*  I hate it when he does that.

“I thought we weren’t going to fall in love.”  WHO D’YOU THINK YOU’RE KIDDING/ HE’S THE EARTH AND HEAVEN TO YA!

My love for Obi-Wan’s snark in this scene knows no bounds.

*Geonosians cheer when the Separatists cheer*  Heck yeah, I’d cheer for Christopher Lee too!

“She [Padme] seems to be on top of things.”  But not on top of Anakin yet.

[I am forcibly removed from the fandom] 

*starts imitating the nexu*

Wait, isn’t that big mantis crab thing from Ryloth?

Wait, nevermind:  the acklay are from some planet called Vendaxa.

*Padme lands in the saddle*  Sorry, you’d have no kids after that landing.

*starts imitating Nute Gunray saying “Jango!  Finish her off!” *

*The Jedi invade the gladiator arena*  HECK YEAH!

*starts naming off all the Jedi because I can*

GREEN SCREEN!

This whole scene was filmed on a green screen.

There was no point to that flip, Mace.

*Mace hits that rhino thing*  NOOOO!!!!

*Jango kills the rhino*  NOOOO!!!

Boba’s in the corner like “Whaat?  My dad just died??”

Kit Fisto’s smile.  Oh my God.

*3PO makes jokes while being dragged back to his appropriate body*  [groans] Just... kill me...

AAYLA SECURA!!!

*Ki Adi Mundi helps Kit Fisto onto the clone trooper ship*  Whaddya bet Ki Adi Mundi and Kit are like best buds?

What language is the Geonosian language based on?

“We must get the Star Destroyers back into space.”  When did your voice change?!?

“If they [the Jedi/the Republic] find out what we are planning to build, we are doomed.”  Circle inside of a circle?

*Dooku flies to his ship via speeder*  The Hoveround takes me where I wanna go...

What is this shaky cam zoom on the clones?

“We’re out of rockets, sir.”  HOW???

“Don’t let your personal emotions get in the way!”  OK, Obi-Wan totally knows that Anakin and Padme are a thing.

Sooo... why was Dooku’s ship halfway across the desert?

Because we needed dramaaa??

GREEN SCREENNNN!!!

My personal headcanon is that the clone that falls off the ship with Padme is Rex.

DOOKU’S FREAKY ASS SMILE!!

*Obi-Wan gets injured*  OK, man, get up.  You’ve survived worse.

*Anakin destroys the wire for the lighting*  DRAMATIC LIGHTING!

THEY’RE NOT EVEN HITTING EACH OTHER!

What is this Force-measuring contest between Dooku and Yoda?

There’s literally no point to it.  It’s just Dooku going “My use of the Force is bigger than yours!’

[I am forcibly removed from the fandom]

*Yoda catches the Sith Lightning with his hand*  OK, so this is totally unrelated, but in the Star Wars Force Arena game, you can get Kanan as a character, and HE DOES THAT!

FILONI, EXPLAIN!

*Yoda just jumps off the ship*  HARDCORE PARKOUR!

Why doesn’t Obi-Wan move himself and Anakin away from the falling pillar?  Are they just that injured?  Obi-Wan, you just have a cut on your arm and leg; you can move.

ANAKIN AND PADME ARE MAKING OUT RIGHT IN FRONT OF YODA AND OBI-WAN!!!

“Do you believe what Count Dooku said about Sidious controlling the Senate?”  He IS the Senate!

Where are all the other chairs?

“Begun, the Clone War has.”  Best line in the movie.  It’s also the last line in the movie.

Is Mas Amedda just yawning in the background?

Padme is just covered in doilies.

IT’S OVER!

*goes and watches the entirety of TCW*

[gffa]

There’s sometimes a lot of assumptions about what the Jedi do/don’t allow because our own expectations get in our way all too often, but the truth is that it’s not really very clear.  We have some context to go off of, but ultimately we’re never actually told.  The Old EU was basically published fanfiction in a lot of ways, George himself said that that was never part of his Star Wars, Filoni talks about how it was made clear that stuff wasn’t canon, etc., so we really only have what was in the movies, the TV shows, and in interviews.  And some of that stuff is even going to be coming from unreliable narrators! Like, Anakin Skywalker is pretty clearly not necessarily a trustworthy source of information, because this is the guy who’s like, “Obi-Wan doesn’t trust me!” and Padme has to point out, he trusts you with his life every single day, you beautiful dumbass, he trusts you like really a lot!  What little we get about love comes in a conversation where Anakin is already explicitly trying to bend around the rules and justify what he wants (a thing Anakin does frequently throughout all of canon!) and so what’s the truth?  Anakin’s not a source we can wholly trust on this.  Nor can we trust Padme, because she doesn’t know anything about the Jedi, that’s clear in the scene, too.  And in ROTS, it’s unclear about why their marriage would get them both expelled–but I’m pretty sure at least part of it is that he’s a Jedi and she’s a Senator, meaning that she’s his boss, because the Jedi are under the jurisdiction of the Senate. In TCW, Obi-Wan says he would have left the Order for Satine, but it’s unclear whether he would have had to leave to be with her at all or if it was because he felt that he would not be able to remain able to do his duty if he tried to split himself like that.  Or because she was the Duchess of Mandalore and thus the politics (because the Jedi weren’t their own body of government) would have made it impossible. He also tells Anakin later that of course they’re allowed romantic feelings, but he needs to remain friends with Padme, but it’s unclear if this is a hard rule or because Anakin is going to absolute pieces over this.  He’s in a rage spiral that’s leading up to ROTS, he’s not handling this well, he’s brooding and snarling and lashing out.  He’s not handling it and that be entirely Obi-Wan’s point, that he’s become attached in how the Jedi define it. This contrasts with how, in the original ROTS screenplay (which made its way into the adaptations of ROTS as well, though, those are no longer canon) Obi-Wan did know about Anakin and Padme’s relationship, when shit’s going down, he asks her to help Anakin and indicates he’s known for awhile.  Is this because, as long as it’s kept in balance, as Obi-Wan possibly thinks Anakin has managed to get back to, it’s allowed?  Or is Obi-Wan bending the rules for Anakin, because he wants Anakin to be happy, regardless of how it’s crossed over the line from healthy and into attachment?  Both cases would make sense for the characters! “Attachment” is a word that gives us a lot of grief because we often want to define it one way, but all the times George talks about it, it’s in the context of possessive relationships, of being owed that person’s presence in your life.  When Pablo talked about it, he backed that up as well.  And attachment really seems to come down more to trying the concept of trying to hold onto something as you want it to be, rather than how it is, not in the sense of “having a connection with someone”, because otherwise Mace and Depa’s “continuing to have a strong bond”, for example, doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.  When Yoda talks to Anakin about attachment in ROTS, it’s because Anakin’s not there looking for reasonable help, he’s there to look for a way to stop death because he’s going to burn the galaxy down if he doesn’t.  That’s going way past a reasonable amount of worry about what’s going to happen and right straight on into, “Unable to accept what things actually are/that things may change without his permission.” So, that’s pretty much where we sit.  There’s no reliable in-universe person telling us the Jedi aren’t allowed romantic relationships so long as they keep their shit together, because every situation has context to go along with it that would just as easily support, “Decide if you can keep it in check because you have a duty as a Jedi that must come first.”  The reliable ones (like Depa Billaba, like Cyslin Myrr, like Mace Windu, etc.) tell us emotions are there, but must be kept under their control, rather than they themselves under the control of their emotions. The thing is, the Jedi are given a tremendous amount of power and legal authority.  Their connection to the Force gives them abilities that can very easily hurt others, based on their unbalanced emotions–we see what even just a partially trained Force-user acting out of fear can do, when Ezra makes the fyrnocks attack.  A trained one like Vader can just straight up blast even Ahsoka Tano right into unconsciousness just by feeling her out!  That’s a lot of power given to one person, add in that they’re given the authority by the Senate to help people across the galaxy?  People who fear them because they don’t understand them?  The Jedi understand that they have to keep their shit under control (not repressed, canon’s pretty explicit on the front of how several Jedi have said emotions are necessary, you just need to control them before they rule you) because otherwise they’re going to leave a lot of hurt people in their wake, all the more so when given the legal power they are.  If you have the authority to cut someone’s arm off with your lightsaber because the Force told you it was necessary?  You better make damn sure you’re not doing it out of unbalanced emotions. You put all that together and I think where we end up is this:  Jedi are allowed relationships, so long as they can maintain balance with them.  Probably not marriage (but, again, we don’t actually know) but relationships that don’t unhinge their focus and ability to be objective in a situation where they have power over other people?  Not celebrated, but allowed.  But Anakin Skywalker was never going to be able to do that.  He wanted love to consume him, he wanted it to be everything, he wanted it so much (and in the way he wanted it, not the way it was) he would burn down the galaxy for it.  That was never going to be allowed to a Jedi, because their position in the Republic would have been an abuse of the power they were granted and the abilities they wielded.

[gffa]

hello! you are the coolest! among other things i love how polite and well thought you are, kinda my role model in these aspects. :) so, if you sometime feel like answering this question, what do you think about the hardeen accident? it has always been this one, uh... out-of-character obi-wan thing for me. he of all people should have known how unrepairably betrayed anakin would feel. how he with his fixation and attachment issues would be destroyed. there had to be a way to hint him at least?

Hello there!  Oh, thank you for the very sweet words, that’s really kind of you!  I do try to work really hard on being thoughtful to others, trying to keep in mind how I would want to be responded to.  I’m not perfect about it, everyone has their up and down days, but that we keep trying to be polite, warm, and kind to each other is all we can ask.  ♥As for the Rako Hardeen stuff, this is going to be a super unsatisfying answer FOR NOW, but it’s the one I have.  It’s been awhile since I watched those episodes fully (but I’m doing a rewatch of TCW and I will eventually get there!) but I remember not really thinking much of it at the time.  I don’t know where I was at in my evolving views of the characters and the set-up of how everyone related to each other (ie, where I was at on the anti-Jedi spectrum XD), but I remember thinking that I understood Obi-Wan’s motivations perfectly fine and being surprised at the fandom blowback from it.For me, Obi-Wan’s point of view is really understandable, because he’s right that Anakin wouldn’t have been able to sell it, that a recurring theme with Anakin is that he can’t act for shit.  And this was about saving the Chancellor’s life, that a big part of being a Jedi is being selfless and protecting others, even when it costs you something to do it.  Weighing Anakin’s hurt feelings versus the Chancellor’s life, I’m not sure how else Obi-Wan was supposed to choose.  And I’m going to assume that he genuinely believed these steps were necessary, he didn’t do them just for fun, it’s not like Obi-Wan has never cared about Anakin’s feeilngs.  He had to GENUINELY BELIEVE that this was the BEST WAY REALISTICALLY POSSIBLE to handle this.He knew it would hurt Anakin’s feelings, but the thing about Obi-Wan is that his form of attachment (which isn’t the same thing as love, but instead about being  unable to accept something as it actually is, which isn’t as neat and pat of an answer, but it’s the one that fits the canon and George’s comments) is that he is blind to Anakin’s faults.  He says things like, “He has never let me down, he never will.” in the movie where Anakin is about to let him down BIG TIME!  In a situation where Anakin has already failed Obi-Wan’s training when he killed the Tuskens and Obi-Wan doesn’t see that.  Okay, sure, Obi-Wan wasn’t there, but he doesn’t see that Anakin is capable of that, I don’t think, because he believes in Anakin so much.  Obi-Wan’s attachment is that he doesn’t see the possibility of Anakin falling, because he believes SO STRONGLY that Anakin is a good person and will pull through, that whatever problems he has, he has absolute faith that Anakin will come through to the other side.But also that he can’t constantly put Anakin’s overreactions–and, yeah, they are overreactions, as much as they’re understandable and come from incredibly sympathetic and relatable places, the WHOLE ENTIRE THING about TCW is that it’s showing the story between AOTC and ROTS, showing how we get to Darth Vader, who is one giant overreaction to and culmination of Anakin Skywalker’s issues–above the good of the entire Republic.  Anakin shouldn’t hold onto it in the way he does, he shouldn’t be letting it fester inside him and eat away at him like poison.  Of course he should be hurt and upset, but he should face those feelings, deal with them, and then let them go.But he can’t let go of things.  Can’t let go of anything, as George Lucas says.  That’s why he becomes Darth Vader and that’s on Anakin, that he doesn’t deal with any of it, just holds it in and simmers about it and completely ignores the problem, no matter how many times Obi-Wan tries to talk to him or offers him tools for mindfulness to help him.It isn’t that Anakin’s hurt by this, that’s totally understandable and a really valid response!  But irrevocably hurt, to the point that it fuels his transition into Darth Vader?  When they have a duty, one that Anakin knows they have and has accepted (or so he says) as part of his life, then refusing to deal with it?  That’s not on Obi-Wan, that’s on Future Darth Vader over there.  Obi-Wan was doing the duty they were both sworn to, if Anakin couldn’t handle that, then he should have stopped being a Jedi.The thing is, though, that Anakin didn’t want to stop being a Jedi, not until he was going to burn the whole thing down and finally be the fascist he’d always had leanings towards.  Anakin has never wanted a quiet life, he wanted to see all the stars, he wanted to shape the galaxy from chaos into his order, he wanted to be a player on that bigger galactic stage.  He just wanted all that other stuff, too–not having to control himself, not having to have a strong focus, not having to let people make their own decisions, etc.So, I feel for Anakin’s hurt when he realizes that Obi-Wan lied to him.  God, I’d be so upset and hurt by that, too!  But it’s not like Obi-Wan did it on a whim, he genuinely believed it was necessary (and Obi-Wan’s a reasonable person, so he would have had a reasonable expectation that it was necessary) and they’re IN THE MIDDLE OF A WAR, stuff like this happens!  It’s not that Anakin has to forgive Obi-Wan if he doesn’t want to, that’s not what I mean.  It’s that, if Anakin had such a deeply held issue with it, then he should have actually talked to Obi-Wan (or just taken Obi-Wan up on the offers to talk) instead of holding it in like poison.That was the expectation Obi-Wan had on Anakin, that he would talk it out if he had such a problem with it (and god knows we see Obi-Wan showing Anakin that he’s available to talk if he wants to) and that Anakin would get his shit together because they both had responsibilities beyond just to each other.

[padawanlost]

I'd say "pledging yourself to the Sith" is a flaring statement that you agree with their goals and methods, and thus become an enemy of the entire galaxy so there's no need to examine whys and ifs. If you stop to contemplate, you lose because the evil guys overrun you. The idea is actually simple since there are always only two Sith, exterminate them both and at least THAT prob is solved. Pragmatic thinking, when it comes to danger like the Sith, is not evil or putting the Jedi on the same level

*All answerall the questions here, okay?

Yes, I agreethat pledging yourself to the sith means you agree with them. I never arguedwith that. but I don’t agree there is no need to examine whys and ifs. First ofall, if you don’t bother asking why a person commits the crime you will neverunderstand why they did it and how to prevent it. it’s a very backwards way ofthinking. You need to stop to contemplate, that’s fundamental for justice and improvement.If you don’t bother understanding the crimes and the person committing them,you will grow as person and as a society. Btw, when I say understand I don’tmean make excuses or forgive. That kind of thinking “kill first because theyare bad anyway” is the kind of thinking that leads to genocide and injustice whichusually leads to even more violence and injustice. It’s the kind of easy fixthat sounds clever in the short term but only leads to more injustice later. Insituations like this the easier solution is, more often than the not, not thebest.

As yousaid, there as only two guys so the policy of “exterminate and don’t askquestion now or later” feels more like an easy justification then the bestsolution to an overwhelming problem. that solution feels even more dubious whenwe remember the jedi were sold themselves as a beacon of peace, justice and enlightenment.

Again, I’veNEVER said the Jedi are evil or are on the same level as the sith. All I’msaying is there’s nothing admirable about executing people or putting them onsecret prisons. Saying there’s nothing morally wrong with that because the sithare evil anyway is a cop-out. it’s the kind of thinking that led to stagnationof the Jedi and their eventual demises, they never stop to think about who thesith were, what they wanted or why they were back which allowed evil to change,adapt and completely blindsided the Jedi.

It’s somehow like that mantra of theClone Troopers: “The only good clanker is a rekt clanker.”, onlymodified to “The only good darksider is a dead darksider”. I dunno ifthe Jedi really practiced that since they are always so hesitant and passive,always allowing the dark side the initiative. Which is baffling since dark sideforce users are definitely more dangerous than battle droids so killing thoseon sight should actually be more “proper paranoid”.

Thisapproach “the only good enemy is a dead enemy” is so overly simplistic itbecomes dangerous. it’s understanding coming from soldiers risking their lives, but not when it comes from galactic leadership (andone the of “wisest” men in the galaxy). also the clones were “brainwashed” intothinking that. they were bred to think like that so they remain loyal to theRepublic. The ones who did try to question the Republic’s approach realizedthings weren’t that simple.

The more places he was sent, themore things Darman saw that made him ask why they didn’t just let planets cedefrom the Republic. Life would go on. [Republic Commando:True Colors by Karen Traviss]

Another important aspect the JediOrder is the hypocrisy. What they preached and what they actually did were verydifferent things. they said they were had compassion for ALL life but galactichistory is filled with situations where the Jedi allowed death and poverty togo unchecked to protect the interests of political leaders. They might say theydon’t want to kill exterminate the Sith for being Sith but that’s not how theyact.

He wanted to ask her why only a handful of Jediobjected to a slave army, and why they could claim to believe in the sanctityof all life and yet treat some life as being exempt from that respect. [RepublicCommando: True Colors by Karen Traviss]

‘Explain something to me, littl’un,’ Rex said. Maybe he could have askedSkywalker this same question, but something told him it was a bad idea. ‘What’s the difference between Jedi whofall to the dark side, and do whatever it is that dark siders do, and Jedi whojust let bad things happen on their watch?’ He really wanted to know.” [TheClone Wars: No Prisoners by Karen Traviss]

Sith shouldn’tbe executed for believing in whatever they wanted to believe or for whatemotions they feel, they should be held accountable for their actions. that’s why a trial is soimportant. it allows people to understand why the crime happened and gives thecriminal a change to understand why he’s on trial and what their punishmentwill be. When you don’t do that, it’s not justice and you’re also destroyingany possibility of rehabilitation. If you don’t create a mechanism in placethat allows you to humanize your enemy will never be able to separate the real responsiblefrom their victims. That’s why Yoda died believing Anakin was a bigger threat tothe galaxy than Palpatine. killing Vader was never about justice, it was aboutkilling a Sith without any attempt to understand how he become one and what hewanted which almost lead to destruction of the Rebel Alliance.

As peoplesay, if you question you don’t learn.

The Jedi are not passive or hesitant(at least not when it comes to the Sith). They believed a balanced galaxy werea galaxy where all the sith were destroyed.

With all due respect, Master, is he not the chosen one? Is he not todestroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force? – ROTS

There’s nothing hesitant or passive aboutthe Jedi accepting a slave army to destroy them, about them sending kids towar, about plotting to have Dooku assassinated, about using a pregnant lady asbait, about forcing one Jedi to kill his best friend, about manipulating a kidto kill his father, about telling the same kid to let his friends die becausetraing to kill a sith as more important, etc. Again, there’s a huge gap betweenwhat the Jedi preach (“compassion to ALL life”) and what they actually do.

I don’t know why but I find the prospectof dark force users “standing trial” as suggested by somesimultaneously funny and being unrealistic utopian dreams. Like, how is thatsupposed to work? Like Ahsoka’s trial in TCW? As if the darksider would juststay still and let a trial happen, lol, he/she would kill everyone in the courtroom and then escape. In one EU work there was a trial for Ulic-Qel Droma infront of the entire Senate. Then Exar Kun, his master, shows up. One guess whathappens…

What’sfunny and unrealistic about justice? Is our justice system perfect? No, it’s aflaw system made by flawed people. but it’s the best we got and it definitely beatsthe alternative. Should people allowed to execute each other without any kindof attempt at justice because the system is not perfect? that’s lazy and veryvery dangerous. I mean, a trial would be too complicated so just let’s killpeople be executed then…

And whywould a force-sensitive trial would be so unfeasible? They would be put on trialfor crimes committed. A sith crimes are very realistic crimes, so why would atrial be so impossible? They would be on trial for murder, corruption, slavery, attempted murder, terrorism, torture, etc. if a sith was captured by the Jediand were to stand trial the Jedi would be there to keep the order. As you said,it was two vs thousands and I’m assuming precautions would be taken. Plus,giving up on justice because the accused is dangerous or might is escape is aterrible reason to give up on justice. We have dangerous people on trial everyday and we still try do keep the system going because you know, it’s justice. Andthe guys you mentioned are from the Old Republic, it was a different Sith, adifferent Republic and a different Jedi Order. After that the Jedi Order hadover 1000 years to sit down and think about how to deal with the Sith. Theychose to keep them a secret from everyone in the galaxy and kill them wheneverone appear.

“itdoesn’t sound like the Order, when it comes to the sith, is all that chivalrousand forgiving. ” Considering how they had to fight several bloody galacticwars to protect civilization from these mad power hungry bitches for 25,000years who continued to try and conquer everything it is somewhat understandablefrom my point of view that they aren’t that forgiving to this enemy faction.Considering the current situation in RotS at that time, I also wouldn’t be in amood to forgive anything.

So it’sokay for the Jedi to kill sith now indiscriminately because of what happened1000 years ago? So it’s vengeance? This implies the Jedi didn’t learn anythingin the meantime. They didn’t evolve at all. that also means the Jedi aren’tvery good at letting go (their core belief). If they still see the sith exactlyas they did in the past and feel justified in executing them because of thatthen they aren’t all that detached, compassionate and wise. By the Jedi’s ownbeliefs, and unforgiving force-sensitive is a Sith :P which one is it,  they are hesitant because they don’t want tokill sith or they are killing Sith because they are holding a 1000 years oldgrudge?