#lore discussion

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Another way to "fix" Peacock Miraculous, is just to throw away that whole "emotion" stuff, and make Peacock Miraculous ability to be just "you can have your own personal and custom-made 'weird monster'. Have fun."

Peacock!Marinette wants to have "horse-sized black cat with personality of Chat Noir"? She can.

Peacock!Chloe wants to have "Mr Cuddly as (essentially) Care Bear"? She can

ShadowMoth wants to have Moth-Scorpion hybrid that will serve as his mount, for sake of "aura farming"? He can

I mean, that's basically what the peacock is. The only sentimonster with a clear tie to Emotions was Feast and that's only if you consider hunger an emotion. If Emilie can make... whatever the hell she made and have that creation grow into a human with a full range of emotions, then the power has no limits. The peacock is god. It'll be interesting to see how Felix is used because of this issue. Is he going to come across as incompetent or is he just not going to get to be on screen much? Only time will tell! My bet is that he just won't show up much since he's an insta-win card. Just have Felix make a senti that senses miraculous or akumas and let it track down Lila. Or a senti that senses akumas, teleports to them, and captures them before they infect anything. Problem solved! Day saved!

[black-suns-rim]

My two cents on Dek

I know Dek is a hot topic in the yautja fandom right now. I'm seeing a lot of opinions on him and discussion about his appearance.

I dont care what people think, I'm really digging his look. He looks like a young yautja, a teen. He looks much younger than Chopper, Celtic, and Scar (who I consider more like young adults/older teens). The way that Dek's face is shaped could just be because of his young age and having not matured fully yet. Here's an example for what I mean

Dek could just belong to a species of yautja that has a different developmental stage (because I highly doubt he's part human like a lot of people have been saying about him, given how yautja canonically view humans). Plus, "first hunt, last chance" seems like Dek is going on his very first hunt, NOT CHIVA! (Chiva being what Scar, Celtic, and Chopper were doing in AVP; a ritual hunt as a rite of passage into adulthood) He could still be in the unblood rank, having not hunted anything before.

On top of that, it's confirmed he's a runt; much smaller than the others and wanting to probably prove himself to his clan and to his father. Him being a runt could also be the reason why he looks different.

Some commentary about his appearance

His bottom left tusk looks like it's chipped or has been broken in the past. Due to him being a runt, he has probably been bullied and has suffered from abuse from his peers.

His eyes are so uncanny, and I love it. It gives an unsettling vibe to his appearance

Bro's skin looks soft. This could also play into him being a teen/young. His lack of scars too

His armor looks like what you'd wear as someone who doesn't have much status. Like hand-me-down armor

Conclusion

Dek is a teenager going on his very first hunt for approval and acceptance. He's not half human; he's just young and a runt.

[gaygreenultimatecatboy69]

With the end of 2.5, I realized just how much the Yaoqing trio needed each other.

Jiaoqiu needs people who he can feel like he can help, who he can feel like he makes a difference for. Without them, he loses all motivation for life.

Feixiao needs people who she can be herself with. People who she can feel accepted and welcomed by. Without them, she has a hard time fully accepting her history.

Moze needs people who know his past and accept him for it. People who see his past, accept it, and help him through it. Without them, he sinks into the past and lets it overtake him.

This was just a little thought I had, tell me if I accidentally mischaracterized any of them (⁠*⁠´⁠ω⁠｀⁠*⁠)

[noperopesaredope]

A Post Outlining Why the Clone Troopers are 100% Slaves

I'm pretty sure nobody is really arguing otherwise, but I was thinking about this earlier and decided to actually look up the definition of slavery, and holy shit the clones fit it even more than I thought like oh my lord-

I've also seen people not really acknowledge that the clones are literally slaves, so this is to set it in stone. This post is mostly pointless, but I wanted to make it anyway because it's actually crazy how much they fit the definition and I need people to know about that.

My main source I will be using is Britannica and their page on slavery, but I may also take a few others and use those as examples.

"slavery, condition in which one human being was owned by another. A slave was considered by law as property, or chattel, and was deprived of most of the rights ordinarily held by free persons."

The clones are canonically property of the Republic and clearly have no rights, otherwise half the shit that happens to them would not be happening due to being illegal (or it would at least be slightly more regulated). One aspect of this I think is important is that slavery is supposedly illegal in the Republic, and yet clones are owned by the very government that outlawed the owning of sentient beings. As I will discuss more, many of the rights sentients have in the Republic do not apply to the clones, showing that they have far less rights than those which are, as Britannica said, "ordinarily held by free persons."

It's also heavily implied that the clones are considered property/chattel by the fact that they are not legally considered sentients. Otherwise, again, them being owned by the Republic would not be legal or permitted. Sentient beings cannot be owned under Republic law, and since the clones are owned by the government (and again, seem to lack various rights which are applied to all sentients), this implies that they do not count as sentient beings. Honestly, it seems like culturally they are somewhat considered non-sentients due to basically being perceived as organic droids or something similar, thus they are more likely equated to property. Not even chattel, since that would imply that they are at least living beings, and clones are barely even tried as ones.

"The slave was a species of property; thus, he belonged to someone else."

I state this constantly throughout the entire analysis.

"In some societies slaves were considered movable property, in others immovable property, like real estate."

I don't know what TF that means so I don't know if it fits or not but one of the two probably fits.

"They were objects of the law, not its subjects. Thus, like an ox or an ax, the slave was not ordinarily held responsible for what he did."

This one is a bit complicated and debatable. They don't have rights, but are still somewhat held accountable for their actions. Then again, the use of the term/concept of "decommissioning" somewhat state otherwise. To the Kaminoans at the very least, the clones are products. So if they break the law or break certain rules or "fail" in some shape or form, they are thrown away. Not really punished for their actions, but treated more like a broken phone that doesn't work properly.

On top of this, I'm not sure if they would actually be tried in front of a court of law. They can be court martialed, but that's a bit different and very internal to the GAR, which is what owns them (yes, they are owned by the Republic in general, but most things regarding how they are regulated seem to be in relation to the GAR). If they were to commit a regular crime, they would most likely be decommissioned rather than tried in the same way as a regular civilian or natborn sentient. Again, while they can be punished, the law doesn't seem to apply to them in the same way. It would be up to the GAR rather than the justice system.

Honestly, this might come up later, but it's unlikely the clones would even be able to get legal representation, since they already don't even need to be court martialed to be straight up executed. And since they aren't legally considered sentients, it would be hard to properly try them in a court of law that isn't a military court. Like the quote says, you cannot try an ox or axe, thus, it would be hard to try a clone if they aren't considered to have any real free will. And even if they are, they aren't considered sentient and instead are property.

I guess a more accurate comparison would be if droids could be arrested and sued/tried vs getting simply destroyed (or the owner of said droid getting in trouble and destroying them/shutting them down). Highly unlike. And I believe that applies to the clones as well. Perhaps they could be declared too dangerous and be decommissioned, but not given a proper trial or anything.

If anyone disagrees with me on that, please do so in the reblogs or replies because I do want to hear your thoughts on if clones could be tried in a regular court (rather than a GAR court) and how that would even logistically work.

"He was not personally liable for torts or contracts."

These guys might be able to do some things like arrest warrants and mission reports, but they would NOT be able to sign a contract. I don't even have solid proof. I just know, and you do too. How would that even work? I don't think they can really even sign stuff outside of the GAR or their job.

"The slave usually had few rights and always fewer than his owner, but there were not many societies in which he had absolutely none."

I already explained how they have literally no rights. Honestly, the only reason this statement doesn't completely apply is due to the fact that they have absolutely no rights, as I will talk about more in the next statement.

"As there are limits in most societies on the extent to which animals may be abused, so there were limits in most societies on how much a slave could be abused."

The very fact that decommissioning/reconditioning is a thing, the Kaminoans aren't in trouble for all that child abuse, and how easy it would be to retaliate against clones reporting abuse (honestly unsure if a natborn would even be punished for abusing a clone) shows that pretty much all bets are off in regards to abuse. Plus, the fact that they have no rights and are barely considered living beings kind of makes it hard to find any proper protections for them.

"The slave was removed from lines of natal descent. Legally, and often socially, he had no kin. No relatives could stand up for his rights or get vengeance for him."

I'd say that the only legal kin the clones could possibly have are each other and maybe Jango, and there is no way the clones would be able to stand up for each others' rights. They honestly probably aren't legally considered kin anyway, so it would barely matter.

The clones can not vote, run for office, and have basically no form of government representation. They can not participate in politics in any real form.

"As an “outsider,” “marginal individual,” or “socially dead person” in the society where he was enslaved, his rights to participate in political decision making and other social activities were fewer than those enjoyed by his owner."

"The product of a slave��s labor could be claimed by someone else-"

Pretty much all clone labor is military related, and all the spoils of war are handed to the Republic. Not sure if this applies to regular soldiers anyway, but the point still stands.

"-who also frequently had the right to control his physical reproduction."

Do you really think the GAR would let the clones have kids?

Even if they did, I'm pretty sure they'd have the legal right to still prevent the clones from reproducing.

"Slavery was a form of dependent labor performed by a nonfamily member."

The clones are not related to anyone in the government. They may have some clone superior officers, but those clones don't own any clones, and the highest ranking officers are always natborns. The GAR also very much depends on the labor of the clones. Like, almost the entire GAR is just clones except for the people in charge of the GAR.

"The slave was deprived of personal liberty-"

The clones have no personal liberty because they are government property.

"-and the right to move about geographically as he desired."

The GAR very much controls where the clones can and cannot go. Sometimes they are allowed to go wherever they please, but the GAR still holds permanent control over where the clones are allowed to go.

"There were likely to be limits on his capacity to make choices with regard to his occupation and sexual partners as well."

The big point is that they have no choice but to be soldiers and work for the GAR. And as I said earlier, they definitely don't have any reproductive rights. This likely applies to romance as well.

"Slavery was usually, but not always, involuntary."

These bitches did not choose this. They were literally born into it. Honestly, they weren't even born into it; they were signed up for this before they even existed.

"If not all of these characterizations in their most restrictive forms applied to a slave, the slave regime in that place is likely to be characterized as “mild”; if almost all of them did, then it ordinarily would be characterized as “severe.”

Here are the parts that do not apply to the clones (or can be argued about):

.

.

.

.

.

There are none.

I actually put 2 quotes here before realizing that they actually do kind of apply.

While I didn't quote the entire article, that's because those parts weren't talking about the definition and what actually makes something slavery. When it comes to the actually qualifications, the clones' situation checks off every single one. I initially thought it would be more in the medium zone, but this is severe severe. The best I can give is that at least they get paid, but we don't actually know that. They are able to pay for things, but that might be due to odd jobs and discounts on stuff. Even then, the article doesn't mention pay of any kind, so it doesn't even matter.

There is also so many layers to their enslavement that makes it so much more twisted and disturbing. The harmful genetic modifications/experimentation (the aging thing specifically), the fact that they were created specifically to be slaves, the entire practice of decommissioning, them not even being considered sentient beings or people, and so much more.

I know why the show never acknowledges that they are 100% enslaved (acknowledging that all the clones we know and love are technically enslaved by the side we're rooting for and nobody is doing anything about it is a bit too dark), but it also drives me crazy how it feels like even the darkest versions of canon acknowledge that they are literally slaves in every possible sense of the word! The only time they are acknowledged to be slaves is by the antagonist of one episode, and his whole point is basically brushed aside!

We literally had a whole ass slavery arc! And Rex was right there with nothing to do! That would have been a perfect time to at least vaguely acknowledge that the clones are slaves! Like, Rex could vaguely mention that he somewhat relates to the slaves, since he doesn't exactly have much freedom, and the government barely considers him and his brothers to be people. Even if he is treated well and doesn't face the same abuse, they do have certain things in common. Then leave it at that. Literally anything.

Honestly, what drives me crazy about Rex being there is the fact that they really get into the horrors of slavery while completely ignoring that Rex is already in that exact situation, he's just not being tortured! Like, he feels bad for all the slaves not just because they are being abused but because they are enslaved as though he isn't already a slave himself! That is literally you, dude! You are in the exact same boat as them, you just aren't being whipped.

The only differences here are:

The clones aren't tortured or receive cruel and unusual punishments (the latter is debatable)

The Jedi don't abuse them (anyone else could, though, and the Jedi don't because they are nice to them)

They are treated slightly better in general

I can't actually really think of anything else. There are so many things that are basically the same, just dressed up differently. Even the dying from work and getting killed for just existing are the same! Fuck, the slave chips are just decommissioning!

Rex clearly feels bad for Anakin's sad backstory and all the slaves on Zygerria, but it's like he doesn't even realize that he has so much in common with them! It's just not obvious at first because the clones are treated kindly and aren't outright abused (most of them, at least).

Anyway, the point is: the clones are slaves. Like, the slaveist of slaves. And I need canon to acknowledge that at some point somewhere by some kind of character that canon acknowledges to be right. Because we all know it already. Canon already depicts the horrors of slavery. I just need them to say it out loud for once.

[lucariowrites]

Okay TailsTube. You have my fucking attention now.

https://x.com/sonic_hedgehog/status/1905273732375171221

Professor Tori is great. I like her, but that's secondary to everything. I heard them talking about the Great Civilizations. I'm about to nerd the hell out and be extremely hopeful.

The Ancients from Sonic Frontiers are now also known as "the First Great Civilization." On its own, this doesn't mean much, but will become important in a bit.

And the Gaians from Sonic Unleashed are now also known as "the Second Great Civilization." Still not the most important thing on its own, but there's a pattern emerging already.

Whoever is at the lore team is now trying to put together all these ancient civilizations we've thrown into Sonic's universe as the different "Great Civilizations." The first time we ever hear about these things is aaaaall the way back in Sonic Battle with best robot, Emerl, either being created by and/or causing the destruction of "the Fourth Great Civilization."

It should be noted that "four great civilizations" does have a parallel to a dubiously historical concept in the real world, but that's mainly to draw on inspiration as the two don't really line up between the game and real worlds.

That being said, who are the third and fourth in this case? The TailsTube does not mention them due to Orbot's insistence on being annoying, but we're basically out of ancient civilizations at this point save for two:

The Babylonians from Riders

The Echidnas

Thanks to some clarification on the Sonic Channel website, we know that the Babylonians arrived on Earth some time before the Echidnas almost went completely extinct. It does not give us an exact time, but the events are posited as being before then on the official timeline. While not outright confirmed, it's a reasonable assumption that the Babylonians would be "the Third Great Civilization" as well.

So who's the Fourth? We don't know yet, but there's three potential answers:

It's the Echidnas

This is the easiest answer and honestly fits pretty nicely into everything, though it does leave open the whole point that the Gizoid (Emerl) was made by the Echidnas which we'll get back to.

2. It's something we don't know yet

Sonic Team could very easily make a new ancient civilization for us to explore in the next game, and honestly I'd be down with that. Because in Sonic Battle, 4000 years ago does set it behind the Echidna Extinction Event comfortably by roughly 1000 years although that's mostly just an estimate. There very well could be a separate civilization going on at exactly the same time that Sonic Team could pull from thin air.

3. It's the Nocturnus

Okay, now hear me out. Chronicles was not written by Sonic Team; it was written by Bioware. But the guys at that specific team really liked Sonic in all of its incarnations and were probably the first to actually try to bring together multiple game histories explicitly into one story. The Fourth Great Civilization was made to be the Nocturnus, a rival clan the Knuckles Clan. They had weapons that were far ahead of their time (including the Gizoid) and that power is what drove Pachacamac to raid the Master Emerald shrine and ultimately cause his downfall. Something that gets played with a lot in the game, but that's for another time.

The problem is that Chronicles hasn't been canon for a very long time. Although it has other errors from what I've heard, what isn't erroneous from the Encylospeedia is that Chronicles is a non-canon adventure. However, with Sonic Team bringing back the concept of the Four Great Civilizations, they have the opportunity to do the funniest thing in the world and reintroduce that game as canon.

All in all, very exciting stuff lore wise and I'm usually not this pumped about it. Hope you enjoyed my ramblings and my enthusiasm.

[house-of-mirrors]

👁🧂

Cosmic horror... hai... *eats and looks at it in return*

Railway was about going west, Firmament is about going east, Salt final boss real?

[panda-hammer]

Sanguinius – The Great Angel

What follows, is me, trying to put something in writing that has been ghosting in that noggin of mine for some time now about the nature of primarchs and astartes. This is based solely on the passages from C. Wraight's book "Sanguinius - The Great Angel".

Part 1 of 2 (or maybe 3)

Disclaimers:

this are my thoughts and opinions. I would love to hear other people's take on that book as well :)

citations are marked with "..."

Mistakes and typos are very likely.

After more or less finishing Sanguinius’ primarch book, I can say that a) Chris Wraight’s writing might not be to everybody’s liking (I am on the fence because the first half of the book was a bit slow and difficult to get into, but picked up in quality in the second half. Also, the German translation doesn’t do it any justice.) b) the book contains some of the best descriptions of Sanguinius (and by extension, Blood Angels), told through the eyes of a human narrator.

For once, these otherworldly beings are not described as simply “beautiful” ,,graceful” or “impossible to grasp” but as actual non-human and multifaceted entities that they are.

I have tried to find as many passages as possible in the book, which I believe describe the above better than I could ever put into words and divided them into three rough categories:

battle situations (the true might and essence of a primarch and his astartes)

outside of battle (the mask)

Sanguinius vs Horus (no Warmaster title for you, hawk boy)

BOOK SPOILERS UNDER THE CUT, so proceed at your own risk.

The first time the human narrator (whose name I can’t retain to save my life) sees Sanguinius fight, is on a planet that refused compliance to the Blood Angels (BA). They got exactly three opportunities to agree to the conditions set out by the imperium, and Sanguinius made it pretty clear, that there won’t be a fourth time. Already here, we can see that he is willing to negotiate BUT only on HIS terms and to get the outcome HE desires.

But back to the fight. Sanguinius is often depicted as a shining warrior angel, akin to St Michael who slays the dragon. Divine, just and noble even when delivering judgement upon his foes. I don’t think that this is the image that particular remembrancer (I will call him Bob from now on) will have in his mind for the rest of his days, when thinking about Sang:

“ As for him, for Sanguinius, I don’t know how long he’d been fighting. Probably for hours. Maybe days. His armour was no longer gold, but black and red, charred by the flames and stained by the blood he’d already let. Fully extended, his wings looked both magnificent and awful. Their pearlescent sheen had been replaced with a mess of blood and debris, accumulated from his descent into the cauldrons of combat. The structures around him were little more than a tangle of broken struts and spars, radiating out from him in a concave hemisphere, as if he’d crashed into them from above and created the blast wave on impact. He was surrounded by shattered bodies, all from the ranks of the enemy. […]  Sanguinius rose from the city’s wreckage with a single thrust of his bloodied wings, dripping gore and oil from the pinions, shedding broken scraps of enemy armour from the shining tip of his great spear, lashing out with movements so precise and so fast that even establishing cause and effect was hard. He was unhelmed. Amid all the lattice of energy weapons and flying projectiles, his face was exposed. Its beauty was marred now, masked with dirt and blood, the long hair matted. I got a lone, snatched sighting of his eyes, which were the most terrifying things I had ever seen. The expression in them was beyond anger. I don’t know if I even have a word for it – a kind of wild, cold frenzy, only barely held in check by the armour that encased him. He was radiant but terrible, resplendent but panic-inducing.”

Bob sees the primarch once again fight on Murder, where Sanguinius unleashes a carnage upon the enemies that killed his children.

“Revenge. It felt good. I liked it. […] I think he did, too. I could see him at the very apex of the advance, and for all that the Titans made my hands tremble, his actions were something else again. He soared and he dived, he plunged and he plummeted, all within and around that lattice of fire and plasma. The Legion was firing liberally, making the atmosphere ignite, and he just weaved his complex path through it all, trailing streamers of fire and smoke, a comet given its head, his spear like a star in the gloom, vicious and intense. They were already reeling, those creatures, those monsters, and to be faced by this, this, a son of the Emperor unleashed – it broke them. They screamed.

Alien screams, from alien gullets and alien mandibles, raised in a chorus of fear and horror. He’d been angry before. I’d seen it, and it had chilled me to the bone. This was different, though. They’d hurt his sons. My advice, such as it is, to any who might contemplate doing that. Don’t. Just don’t.”

And it’s not only the sheer brutality and cold fury that scares Bob, but also the in-humanity of it all. Not in the sense of “inhuman war crimes” type but in the sense of “H.P. Lovecraft’s eldritch horrors that are beyond human comprehension” type.

Sanguinius’ fighting style is simply beyond our comprehension and rationale, because he is too good, too fast, too everything (thanks to his premonition). Which is also noted upon in the book:

“Trying to catch how he did it – how he fought, how he killed – that was hard. Part of it was the speed, the manic velocity of every single movement, a fractured display in the flickering light that seemed more an act of sorcery than physics. Just as before, though, I glimpsed the impossibility in his movements. We are mortal, we make mistakes. We aim, we miss; we strive, we fail. He never missed. He never failed. And it turns out the human brain doesn’t process that very well. We start to try to recategorise it as something else – a machine at work, the operation of a chemical reaction, the effects of gravity. I could barely see any kinship with him at all, not just because he was better, but because he was other.”

Bob is not a happy camper, because it is at this moment that he realizes, how damn lucky we humans are that these abnormal beings are on our side (for now, hah!):

“I was close to tears myself, just from witnessing what a primarch could do when the fetters were off. […]  What had we made here? What had we let loose? He was on our side and I should have felt happy about that, but you couldn’t be, not watching what he did when he was given licence.”

Going a bit back in the book, the word “hyperhuman” is used to describe the Great Angel, and I admit, it fits perfectly. :

“To go up against Sanguinius was to be faced with a soul acting barely within the laws of time and space, something that bulged at the constraints of matter, that operated a hair’s width beyond the possible. It was superhuman. It was hyperhuman.”

And the worst (best) part is, Bob is the only non-combatant who sees all this atrocities happening, because he got special VIP ticket to the front lines from Sanguinius. Other remembrances, only get the full-blown propaganda material which they rely upon to create further wholesome propaganda, creating an image of the BA that is, simply said, family friendly and sanitized bs.

The thing is, that’s exactly what this Legion is going for: the propagation of a positive image of the BA.

They need it, because they know what they are and what they are hiding. Which is also the reason why Bob is the only exception to the rule of no remembrancers on the battlefield. If anyone else saw what the astartes and their dad was doing down there, they would be running away screaming.

The BA enjoy the carnage, the close combat, the slaughter but they also know that what they are doing is tabu for the great masses (not for their own sake, but for the sake of the image of the Crusade).

Long story short, I hope the above was a somewhat comprehensible mess of what I was trying to convey: primarchs are engineered, non-human entities that have more in common with Lovecraftian Old Gods than with us, wee baselines.

And we love them for it.

In part 2, I will go into more details of Sangunius person / character outside of battle.

P.S. Please, also don’t read this so-called “analysis” as anti-ship or anti-hcs. Thank you 😊

[morggard]

Which ocs do or may have large army of admirers in lore... asking for science

Sorry for the late answering I thought I might illustrate it, but ig text format it is;

First of all of course it's Kaíl, bro was literally a country leader, and before he became one, he was already more popular among people than the actual leader

He also had some of his most unhinged followers shaving their heads imitating his haircut; this haircut was banned in this country after he retired

Next one is obviously Igor, he wasn't successful as a singer back in the 1890-s, but when he came back after war and other stuff he had going on, he started gaining popularity somewhere around 1920-s as a composer and music producer and remained popular in 1940-s as well, bro was able to remain relevant for so long bc basically he was ahead of his time in all of his eras;

Not only he was popular because he was some genius musician but also bc despite of his mental problems bro somehow was able to create some alluring mysterious personality that attracted ppl so yeah he had a lot of admirers;

The girlies Dafne and Lotta, former members of Igor's music band also were popular pop stars comparable to Lana del Rey I think;

Kaíl's wife Adalind also had shit ton of fans of her work and admirers; Because of being popular she had a lot of problems figuring out her love life since every man who tried to get close to her wasn't interested in her as a woman but wanted her money or to be in her films;

Bertha had shit ton of men falling for her from her university years till basically her death in her 40-s, I think the second image is telling enough lmao;

She used to be an aggressive sad child, but started developing some wild outgoing personality somewhere in high school, lately she was kinda bitchy but friendly at the same time so it was easy for her to surround herself with some friends everywhere she was placed;

From my other settings I think Alexander had the most fans canonically cause he was a micro celebrity model and dancer in his 20-s, and even when he left this luxurious glam world and started working at the office he still was surrounded by ppl who wanted him;

In addition to his extremely friendly, chatty and flirtatious personality bro was also tall white and had a head full of hair in his late 30-s - early 40-s so ppl forgave him even when he did some Randy Marshall level cringe stuff lol

Idk why you needed to know this and you probably don't want to know anymore but yeah

[dovorionbird]

The Void

My bro got time to flirt but got no time to comfort his children

[kinbedo]

Discussing the Fatui and the "war"

Disclaimer: Extremely long, badly put thoughts because I'm not sure how to word this

The more I think about it, the more questions I ask about the Fatui, their strengths, their ideals, and their leaders.

In the Capitano animated short that we just got, they just reinforced that only people of Natlan were being supported by the Night Kingdom during the war. Even those without Ancient Names were fully revitalised.

On the other hand, the Fatui didn't even have a single advantage- neither during the fight, nor after. And yet, under The Captain, they were willing to give their lives. The Captain's underlings fully supported, acknowledged and admired their Harbinger. They all were willing to give their lives for Natlan's cause.

After the archon quest, my friend asked "But why did the Tsaritsa just allow The Captain to abandon the final gnosis and fight for Natlan instead? How did The Captain get the right to drop the Tsaritsa's goals for another nation's?"

Is that how the Tsaritsa shows her love for her people? "She's a god with no love left for her people." And yet she's supposed to be the god symbolising love, like how the anemo archon symbolises freedom, electro archon symbolises eternity and so on. Maybe she's no longer a gentle god, but one that is only marching towards her goal? And the only way she shows "love" is by respecting the Harbingers' individual morales?

Mavuika said that the Tsaritsa won't give up, another Harbinger is probably on their way for the gnosis. The story of Natlan is not yet over, only Natlan's war is.

Another war is coming.

Or rather, it has "already begun".

The Tsaritsa, the Abyss, are they both after the "throne in the sky"? The one that Vennessa ascended to?

Actually wait, Varka wasn't the only one forgotten during Natlan... Vennessa was too. Isn't she originally from Natlan, a child of "lady Murata, the Lady of Fire"?

But I digress, else I'll end up talking about Mondstadt, especially Venti if I start now.

Back to the Fatui...

How are soldiers appointed to their Harbingers? If they're appointed randomly, wouldn't some of them feel out of place if their ideals don't match their leader's? And if they get to choose, then how many would willingly choose each Harbinger as their leader?

There's Childe, the battle freak but with a strong morale when it comes to those he cares about (and the traveller has been added to that list too, so we know that Childe is likely to support us when we confront the other Harbingers).

There's The Captain, a man "worthy of respect" (Arlecchino) and with a great sense of justice.

There's The Doctor, a twisted scholar from the Akademiya. His "parts" live everywhere- in the past, present and the future.

There's The Knave, who raises orphans who are to join the Fatui when they're older. Does she receive recruits from outside the House of the Hearth as well? She's probably one of the few (if not the only) Harbingers to have members from outside Snezhnaya, due to her adopting children from all over Teyvat.

And so on and so forth...

Each Harbinger's ideals are respected by the cryo archon. All of them pursue their own goals, while also assisting in the Tsaritsa's grand scheme.

The Fatui members are either the most cunning, the cruellest, heatless being you'll meet, or the most determined, steadfast people you'll encounter.

Katarina, Victor, Lyudochka...

Hell even Lyney, Lynette, Freminet, and the other members of the Hearth that we met during Arlecchino's quest, the members that were allowed to leave the House of the Hearth by "dying".

Just what kind of organisation is the Fatui? How much more complicated are the relations within them? They clearly don't trust each other, so how will we trust anyone when we get to Snezhnaya? "A conflict with the Fatui is unavoidable the moment you step foot into Snezhnaya." We've both fought with (Natlan) and against the Fatui (Inazuma). We helped the Fatui in the Chasm, we helped Viktor in Mondstadt, but had The Fair Lady killed after a duel.

Will we, perchance, get to meet the Fontaine siblings + Arlecchino + Childe in Snezhnaya? Will The Captain's subordinates be on our side?

And what happened to The Balladeer's subordinates when he was erased from Irminsul? Were they randomly placed under various other Harbingers? How will they explain the absence of the 6th Harbinger?

So many questions... 😮‍💨

[miraculouslbcnreactions]

Speaking of how the heroes are chosen, the temp system might be one of the worst writing choices the writers ever made. I mean I get it, permanent heroes would require the show to have continuity and it makes for yet another parallel with Gabriel, but it just ends up being another one of those instances of the show trying to have its cake and eat it too, like. The new heroes eat up screen time that could've gone to the OG duo, but they also don't get to be heroes in their own right and are essentially Ladybug's Pokemon. It makes both people who liked the duo and people who like team-based shows unhappy for no real benefit.

It's also just a massive security risk. Fu says that it's dangerous for the Miraculous to be out in the open, but it's actually way less risky to put the Miraculous in circulation, because then Hawk Moth has to retrieve them by defeating every hero individually, which is a lot more effort. Keeping them all in one place and distributing them one at a time like this means Hawk Moth only has to figure out who's in charge of the distributing and follow that person right to the Miracle Box. Ferrying the Miraculous for every battle also creates more opportunities to lose them, which is how Queen Bee ended up happening.

Looking back, the problems of just about every season finale past S1 can be traced back to this system. It's almost like the writers are trying to set Marinette up to fail.

Ladybug's Pokemon

I love that phrasing! I've just called them her powerups, but this paints a much clearer picture of what I mean. They're not her autonomous teammates who feel vital to the story. They're her cute little friends who do whatever she says. All she has to do is pick which ones she wants for today's battle.

Fu says that it's dangerous for the Miraculous to be out in the open, but it's actually way less risky to put the Miraculous in circulation, because then Hawk Moth has to retrieve them by defeating every hero individually, which is a lot more effort.

Ferrying the Miraculous for every battle... creates more opportunities to lose them, which is how Queen Bee ended up happening.

These are two of my biggest issue with the temp heroes as a general concept. Fetching them every battle gives Gabriel endless chances to find out the temp heroes identities and/or where the guardian is hiding. I don't know why the show acts like the problem was Ladybug forgetting to detransform in Heart Hunter:

Ladybug: Master Fu, I need your help! Master Fu: (sees Ladybug, gasps) This costume is very cute, miss, but is it really fitting in this place? Ladybug: (gasps) I forgot to transform back. (Looks arounds enters the center of the merry-go-round trying to remain unseen) I haven't been followed Master, I'm sure of it.

Nathalie would have been able to track Ladybug either way. At least this way Marinette's identity stayed a secret!

It would make infinitely more sense for Fu to be the one to hand out the miraculous to the temp heroes for two reasons. The first one was laid out above. Having him or some other support character do it is the best way to keep his identity a secret. You should not have Ladybug leaving battles to do it. That's too easy to track because the villains know where she's going to be when she goes running off for help.

The other reason is because it's asinine to have Ladybug run off every time they face a major threat. Think about that logic for a second.

Ladybug: This akuma is too hard for us to fight as a duo! Chat Noir, you stay here and fight this super hard akuma alone while I go get reinforcements. I'll be back in half an hour or so. Chat Noir: Wait, what? How am I supposed to- Ladybug: Have fun! Don't die! Bye!

How did that never backfire on them? I get temp heroes being temp for a few fights, but they should have all been given their miraculous full time ages ago.

[notenoughdragons]

i'm about to cave in like 5 min and go fully digital redstring board on the blight and what the everloving fuck it actually is and how it works, but i need to yell about smth into the abyss first

is lyrium/titans actually kind of resistant to the taint????

red lyrium has the blight

BUT. red lyrium corruption looks utterly diff to blight corruption = ppl infected by it don't die super quick or turn into ghouls, which normally happens

the primeval thaig which is full of red lyrium is Noticeably empty of darkspawn

lyrium is the blood of titans, which.... kind of makes it the blood of the world (earth/stone)

(plus it's basically magic in "liquid" form)

y'know what else is Literally called the blood of the world by someone who would know what they're talking about? DRAGON BLOOD (yavana, secret grove or whatever that comic was called)

and dragons ARE resistant to the blight, they can literally grow scar tissue around it to keep themselves from being infected

so if dragons = sky, titans = earth, then their respective blood has maybe sort of similar powers wrt the blight??

[a-cosmic-elf]

Another beautiful breakdown of the themes and relationships in Legacy of Kain by Strictly Fantasy.

I especially like their take on Kain and Raziel’s relationship. How Kain’s betrayal of Raziel was so much worse than what he had experienced, because of the loyalty Raziel had previously shown him. How it differs from how Kain was betrayed.

How Raziel benefited from Kain’s mentoring, even if it did result in such a brutal betrayal. And the interesting antagonistic dynamic following the betrayal. One that I think did come full circle and was resolved at the end.

The comparison between the two is very interesting.

I don’t think there will ever a be a game series that captures my imagination as much as Legacy of Kain.

[epicthecandydragon]

Nobody ever talks about how Bettel has claws. Or the fact that he’s most likely corrupted and that’s why his fingertips look frostbitten.

Also this means that every member of Vanguard deals with corruption in some form. And that they all undermine the core mission of Guild TEMPUS by existing.

[anotherdragonbird]

Why I think the common perception of “Kiryu keeps running away” is incorrect

In this thread (or essay I guess) I will go through most of the games one by one to talk about the examples I've seen brought up for Kiryu's tendency to ‘run away’. 

My thesis boils down to: there's two different kinds of “running”. One is Kiryu thinking he's taking responsibility for something he's blaming himself for. The other is him taking responsibility for Haruka and his own happiness and basically an act of emancipation from Kazama.

Yakuza 0

So far I have not actually seen people bring up examples for Y0 actually. But Kiryu is a very different character here. At this point - at least at the beginning - he's still believing in the Yakuza. He doesn't feel like he has something to repent for yet. This changes through the game, especially with Tachibana’s death. If I'm missing anything here, let me know and I will add it to the list.

Yakuza (Kiwami)

Heads up that I only played Kiwami and not the original Yakuza, but since the story and the main plot points are the same, this shouldn’t really matter.

Kiryu taking the fall for Nishiki 

Personally I don't see this as running away at all, but I've seen Kiryu blamed for the consequences (especially Nishiki’s downfall and even his death and Daigo joining the Tojo Clan because he's so shocked by Kiryu supposedly killing his father) and it being called ‘running away’, so here we go, especially because it’s the first time we see Kiryu “running”. 

This is a very good example of Kiryu taking the blame/taking responsibility, because he basically thinks he's responsible - here for Nishiki (who's his kyodai and can't leave his sister behind) and Yumi (blaming himself, because he should have been there to prevent all of this from happening and probably even thinking this happened because of Yumi's connection to him). 

And in a way this is also a way out for him. For me the beginning of the game (I played it after 0) feels extremely depressing. Because Kiryu feels completely disenchanted with the Yakuza. To me it felt like at this point he was living this life because of other people and their expectations. He's climbing the ranks because he feels like he owes that to Kazama and he can't leave Nishiki. He gives Yumi the ring because that's what Reina and Yumi seem to expect him to do. Taking the blame for Nishiki is him taking action for himself, therefore an act of freedom (it's even the opposite of what especially Kazama would want him to do) and the very first example of Kiryu's self sacrificial nature when it comes to taking responsibility for others and the clan, thinking it's the only solution. It’s a pattern we see with Kiryu again and again: he’s taking the blame, thinking the only and best way out is to sacrifice himself. It’s not always what’s actually best for him, the situation or the people around him, but it’s the opposite of running, it’s facing the responsibility he thinks he has head on.

Kiryu resigning as chairman, giving it to Terada instead 

And here we go with a great example of “running” as a form of emancipation. It's one of the few times where Kiryu is actually selfish and not taking responsibility for the Tojo, but something more important and more personal instead. And I honestly think it's the best choice he ever made. Because while he's not taking responsibility for the Tojo, he's got something more important now: Haruka. He's responsible for a child and he obviously does not want this child to grow up the way he did. He knows he can't be a good father if he’s chairman. 

So why is it also a little bit selfish: it's literally his only way out of the Yakuza without consequences. It's not an organization you can simply *leave*. The people who held him in the Yakuza and in Kamurocho (Yumi, Reina, Nishiki, Kazama) are gone. And the only thing that's worth staying alive for is Haruka who needs him and she needs him *out of the Yakuza*. And it's his only way to be free from the Yakuza without making the Clan an enemy by being exiled or banished. Because he's the boss. You can argue about Kiryu's choice (Terada), but who else was he to choose? Majima to him was an extremely powerful man, but Kiryu has no reason to believe at this point that he would be reliable enough to lead the Clan. We see him as someone who abuses his underlings (including Kiryu, it's literally their first scene together), kidnapped Haruka and has an obsession with violence and chaos. The fact that this is a mask does not change it, because Kiryu has no reason to assume it is and even if he can't expect Majima to not use the mask as chairman. And he has no reason to trust Majima at this point. As far as Kiryu knows Majima’s loyalties lie with Shimano and/or himself. The other option could be Kashiwagi, but it's pretty safe to assume he wasn't interested. And to a degree Kiryu has some reasons to distance himself from Kashiwagi at this point considering he was just as involved with failing Nishiki and probably knew that Kazama killed their parents. It's nothing Kiryu would say out loud I think but subconsciously it's there. (And no, I don't think he magically owed it to Daigo to stay, but I already made a thread about Daigo's and Kiryu's relationship). And there’s also the very simple reason that Kiryu has no leadership experience, has been out of the Clan for 10 years and has to deal with a ton of survivor’s guilt, while he just learned that his father figure killed his parents. So that’s honestly not running at all. 

Yakuza (Kiwami) 2

Heads up again, I only played Kiwami 2 and not the original.

The only thing I can personally think of and I’ve seen brought up, is Kiryu being willing to die on the roof. And wonky writing aside, I think him being willing to die up there is a culmination of his survivor’s guilt mixed with the guilt he feels towards Kaoru, feeling responsible for her family’s death (even though he was a child himself) and also blaming himself for leaving the clan to Terada. It’s his first big “atonement by complete self sacrifice”. He’s not running, he thinks he’s solving the problem by taking himself out of the equation.

(Side note: it’s one of my least favorite scenes of the series because it feels extremely OOC. I think the writers/devs were going for some Hollywood action movie ending with Kiryu and Kaoru making out on the roof, etc, but do you really want me to believe he wouldn’t try to make Kaoru leave and get to safety and be totally fine with Haruka watching him die? Like, for real. It’s ridiculous).

If you squint, you could possibly count him not becoming chairman again, but my point from above still stands. That’s not running. It’s emancipation.

Yakuza 3

I think Kiryu leaving for Okinawa is one of the three times I see brought up the most as examples (the first being him running away from being chairman). And just like the first time I think it can count as running away, BUT just like the first time he actually does it for his own happiness and wellbeing and Haruka. It's him taking responsibility for his family. He's “running” from the Tojo and Kamurocho, but again: he doesn't owe it to anyone to lead a life of crime being unhappy, when he can have a happy life while his daughter has an actual happy life and childhood. Furthermore he assures that Daigo has people around him who have actual leadership experience (Majima, Kashiwagi, Yayoi), he has no reason to stay and sacrifice his and Haruka's happiness, especially considering Kiryu has no leadership experience and staying could also be seen as him challenging Daigo's power. So it’s not running, it’s once again emancipation.

Yakuza 5

The third big example I keep seeing brought up is Kiryu leaving the orphanage and start a new depressed life in Nagasugai. This, in my opinion, is another great example of him leaving = thinking he's taking responsibility and doing what's best for the people he loves, in this case Haruka and the other Morning Glory kids. And it's not that he's doing it because he wants to, but because Mirei Park successfully made him believe that the kids are better off without him, playing into a fear he very clearly already had before and that sticks with him for the rest of the games. I'm not saying Kiryu is doing the right thing here. In my opinion what he should have done was telling Park to fuck off and stay away from Haruka, but it is very Kiryu. Right until IW he feels like he has to repent for all the Tojo Clan ever did even though he hasn't been a part of it for a long time and they fucked up his life and keep dragging him back in. I think it's very smart of Park to get him out of the picture and completely isolating Haruka, so she can swoop in and manipulate her in this very fucked up Idol industry, making her think this was Haruka's dream. (Do you ever realize that if Kiryu told Park to fuck off a lot of sad stuff wouldn't have happened? Well). (Side note: I don't hate Park, she's a great and compelling character. But she's just like Arakawa: an abusive, manipulative parent grooming a kid for their own selfish reasons).

So: Kiryu's not running away. He's thinking he's doing the right thing by once again taking responsibility, taking all the blame and being self sacrificial. It's the wrong choice. But it doesn't mean he's running away.

Yakuza 6

Kiryu leaving for prison

in my opinion, another great case of him making a decision to take responsibility and atone for his Yakuza life, born basically out of what Park told him in Y5, that his past will ruin the kids’ future. I think none of the kids would agree, especially not Haruka and I'm not thinking it's the right decision, but it's very easy to see where he's coming from. And when Haruka leaves for Hiroshima (and then leaves Hiroshima when she learns she's pregnant) she's doing something very similar. I often saw “she's running away like she learned to run away from Kiryu”. No. She takes responsibility for others and her kid's safety the way she learned from Kiryu. Was it the right decision? Maybe not, but she is still very young and I will honestly fight for her right to make decisions that aren't perfect. And you can see where she's coming from, when she leaves Morning Glory. It's so much like Kiryu leaving in Y5 because he was convinced his past will ruin the kids' lives. It’s once again the opposite of running.

Kiryu faking his death

The top example of him taking responsibility and trying to repent for his life by condemning himself to loneliness, giving up everything he loves because he's convinced that's the only way to keep the kids safe, because they will never be safe as long as he's around. Mixed with his tendency to be self sacrificial and thinking he doesn't deserve to have happiness because of the people who died while he stayed alive, while he keeps endangering his loved ones. (I'm not touching the weird letter to Daigo here, because I already did that in a different thread).

Gaiden

I saw him not staying with the Jimas near the end brought up as an example of him running away, which in my opinion is just not working. He was basically forced out of hiding to help with the dissolution. That was a deal with the Daidoji. Why would he stay and endanger the orphanage when he just earlier saw that acting up could endanger the kids? I do think he cares about Majima and Daigo (and has respect for Saejima), but their feelings aren't worth risking the kids' lives for.

Infinite Wealth 

Kiryu not staying in the Jima-self-pity-shack

To say it bluntly: why would he? Coming there was already a huge risk. He's currently working on solving the mess the Jimas left behind, even though it should be none of his business. I see a lot of Kiryu hate for this scene, while I mostly was angry at Daigo, Majima and Saejima. Because time and time again Kiryu is dragged away from his civilian life to solve the mess of the Tojo Clan, that usually has nothing to do with him. At all. It's often started by Daigo being a weak chairman. (And no, I don't think Daigo is Kiryu's responsibility. Daigo at the point of becoming chairman has Yayoi, Majima and Kashiwagi with him. Why did Kiryu apparently fail Daigo, but they didn't?) But back to IW’s infamous 3Jima confrontation. Kiryu has every reason to be as pissed as he is. He had to help the dissolution during Gaiden, being basically sold by the Daidoji to the Yakuza cause. All of it wasn't his idea. Then the heads of the dissolution didn't see it through, flee into a fisher hut and it's once again Kiryu who suddenly has to solve the mess they left behind while being terminally ill. And then they have the audacity to ask him to abandon the cause and stay with them. Kiryu leaving with the Ichigang isn't only taking responsibility, it's also the right thing to do. And it's definitely not running away. 

Running from treatment instead of fighting 

Kiryu's lack of will to fight against the cancer is the culmination of his self sacrificial nature. It's on point. Because in the end he thinks that's what he deserves for his life and being alone with so many loved ones dead and people being added to the pile (like Rikiya, to his knowledge Kashiwagi, etc). He's just going full circle. He's alone and at this point he sees dying as being able to repent, join his loved ones and to a degree freedom from loneliness and the Daidoji leash. And in his mind the people who are still alive are better off without him, because as long as he's alive, he's a risk to their safety. With him gone, the Daidoji have no reason to threaten the kids anymore. It's very Kiryu. It's him on the roof in YK2 all over again. Finding his will to live again and fight is basically like him refusing to be chairman and leaving for Okinawa: because he's finally doing this for himself and his own happiness and not for the Tojo. And it makes so much sense that it happens through people who aren't Yakuza, but Date fighting for him, showing him all the people who love him and Ichigang as well, not the Tojo people.

But why the misconception?

Well, I feel like it's something that manifested as a belief in the fandom that a lot of people just stick to without actually questioning it. And a lot of times, it seems to be to make Kiryu responsible while taking responsibility from other characters (especially Daigo, Majima and Kashiwagi). In solidarity with one character another character gets the blame and that's - funny enough - usually Kiryu. He's magically ruined Daigo's life (I made another thread about why I think Kiryu's not as responsible for Daigo as some make it out to be) and responsible for basically every death in the series. If you read some takes, you could believe Kiryu's the true villain of the story. This is especially interesting because all those characters do similar things, but somehow that’s fine. Kashiwagi fakes his death and starts a new life. Majima drops Tojo responsibilities in Y2 to have a construction company (it’s not a civilian life though), he runs away from his (extremely young) wife, he leaves Kamorucho behind during the 3K-plan, he leaves the Yakuza grunts to hide in a fishing hut and he fakes his death in Y5. Daigo leaves the Tojo to drink his brains away with his nepo baby money, he basically vanishes in Y5 leaving the clan in disarray, he leaves during the 3K-plan and leaves with Majima once again when the dissolution isn’t easy. All of those characters have reasons for their behavior, Kiryu’s not more or less of an asshole for doing similar things. 

That’s my essay. It got far too long. Thank you, if you read all of this. 

I’m open to discussing my points. I’m not open to Kiryu being called an asshole just because a popular account says he is.