#louis is evil! claudia is evil! and of course lestat is evil!

[fallingbyjuleecruise]

genuinely feel that the drama happening in the amc iwtv fandom is what happens when fans promote a show bc it’s gay first and do not mention the plot/genre at all

[dreadfuldevotee]

Finally found someone who understands loumand amongst the loumand never loved eachother discourse, feel like I'm going crazy armand loved him (not defending his actions) and i believe louis loved him too in paris and i wanna say after too even if that love was tainted, or faded by the time they're in dubai that doesn't mean they never loved eachother.

They're beautiful and complex! I can't say I'm surprised they aren't a popular dynamic but the unwillingness to engage with their story is what upsets me the most. If you take away the love they share then absolutely nothing either of them do in those 77 years together never meant anything in the first place.

Honestly, the biggest crime of Anti-Loumand readings is that they are wildly boring. Like okay, Louis has absolutely no agency whatsoever, or he's staying with Armand for Claudia but he can't even do that right because he refuses to stand up for her where it actually matters, but also stays with Armand even when he tells him to get out of Paris to....spite Lestat??? And Armand is just....what? Blanket evil with no real motive but to keep Louis like a pathetic goldfish in an gallon tank. Why would you want that, when the story being written is much more interesting? Louis who is troubled yet still wanting, drawn to Armand and despite his reservations and self-doubt finding himself loving Armand despite it all. In each-other they both see something they want and believe they can obtain it if they can possess the other. Armand is dazzled continuously by Louis zest for life, even if he often times doesn't understand the forms it takes. I adore how they each have these pivotal moments where they are disarmed by the others vulnerability. Armand hearing Louis advocate for Claudia in the sewers and deciding not to kill him. Louis hearing Armand talk about his past and choosing to stay in Paris, despite the imminent dangers.

Like of course, they are far far far from perfect, and by Dubai they are both such shells of the people they actually are. And why I keep hope alive about Trinity Gate or really any loumand reunion. The two of them getting to meet again when they have both rediscovered themselves, and seeing each other in new lights would be everything to me. But yeah, truly nothing could make me hate them. I could sit here and wax poetic about them forever, frankly. And I absolutely will continue to on this blog lmaooo.

[duriens]

i know everybody has their opinions on why armand 'couldnt/could prevent it' and it is very interesting to read the various interpretations. the way i see it, there are three possibilities (and i'm for the third, spoiler alert):

one, armand couldnt prevent it because, even as a centuries-old vampire, he genuinely doesn't have the power to stop 13 vampires from eventually coming after him/him+louis if he didn't accept their ultimatum. he can make them faint, he can freeze time, he can sway the mind of the audience (with some difficulty...? true or false?) but how long can he keep these powers up and can he do it forever, for however long vampires' grudges last? he might have thought it was possible for him and louis to run away, but that eventually the coven would've found a way to manage to kill him. there's power in numbers? how powerful are centuries-old vampires, exactly? is the combined power of 13 angry vampires enough? armand himself says at some point 'they might've killed me' or smth along the line, meaning he at least believes them capable of trying to kill him. is he that afraid of confronting the coven, of doing battle with them, of failing and dying? (this is the blandest possibility)

second, armand couldnt prevent it because he didnt want to prevent it. armand is a master manipulator and he likes to manipulate others into destroying the things he's bored of/he's lost control over (the children of darkness, the theatre des vampires... his relationship with louis?) cause he doesn't want to take on the responsibilities that come with that destruction, and the eventual guilt/sorrow. armand is minimizing his role in deceiving louis and claudia and is portraying himself as helpless, a centuries-old vampire with limits to his powers, so much so that even the act of making the audience say one thing over the other takes a toll on him, cause it was so hard to just do that one thing, owwie, of course he saved it to when it came to louis' turn for the sentencing.

this is the armand we think of when we see the memes about his inaction, thinking he's smirking to himself bc he knows he could end it with a snap of his fingers.

now we all know that armand is manipulative and that he likes to be in control even when he cedes control, but is he always and in constant awareness of the degrees of his own manipulation and scheming? is he in control of all that, all the time?? does he do it purposefully, with evil intent, consciously selling out louis and claudia and agreeing to a plan involving lestat to get rid of the coven/santiago and consciously pretending to be weaker than he is to get rid of claudia? so this leads inevitably to

third, armand couldnt prevent it because he convinced himself long ago that he is completely helpless and no word or action of his could ever, ever, change a thing. this state of mind he's fallen into has obvious ties to his past, his slavery, his submissive tendencies, his inability to act and decide for himself. he's created this image of himself of someone weaker and powerless that he fully believes to be true, he manipulates others the same way he manipulates himself. his many expressions of grief, of sorrow, of guilt throughout the episodes are genuine because, at some level, he genuinely believes he 'could not prevent it', because he decided long ago he's the kind of person who simply can't on his own--that can't ever, ever be accused of serious stuff because in this narrative he created for himself he can never be a hundred percent at fault, he doesn't bear all the responsibilities. (he's still a manipulative and controlling individual here, just not as shrewd and consciously cunning as in option 2). in this light, the memes about armand doing nothing when he has the power to act become tragic in their own way, because it's tragic that he truly thinks of himself, a centuries-old vampire leader of the paris coven, as powerless and helpless as he had been when he was still alive.

[three--rings]

I'm really disturbed by the fact that I'm seeing people post S2ep8 of IWTV still talking about Lestat as an abuser and Louis as a victim, period end of conversation.

Because I feel like we are explicitly told in ep7 and 8 that that is not the case but some people haven't adjusted their thoughts yet.

Now this is a show explicitly about the unreliability of personal accounts and what we see on screen is often proven not to be how things happen. So, obviously things are always up for debate. But.

We are shown the extended scene of what happened before Lestat flew Louis up into the sky to drop him. In S1 we saw that scene from Claudia's perspective, and she just heard crashing and shouting, and then saw Louis thrown through a wall by Lestat before the whole flight thing.

Ep 7 we are shown Lestat's version of events which are Louis physically and verbally attacking him over and over, slamming Lestat into things, while Lestat begs him to stop, warning him that he will fight back and he's afraid of hurting Louis, and Louis merely eggs him on. Then we get Lestat turning the tables and throwing Louis through a wall.

Now, obviously this is Lestat's version and probably a bit biased to be sympathetic to him. But Louis admits Lestat's version of Claudia's turning is the more correct one than his account and he admits to portraying Lestat intentionally as a villain in the interview, so...well I think the show is telling us that our impression from S1 is at least not the whole story.

Ep 8 underlines this with the scene with Louis and Lestat when Louis apologizes for the way he acted to Lestat in the past, saying "I tried to make nights awful with you. I wanted you to suffer."

We also see him throw Armand into the wall in this episode, which I get people feel Armand deserved, but I feel like the conversation around that has been weird as well. Like, people talk about that being a sign that Louis is stronger than Armand, as if physical violence is impossible from someone who is weaker than their victim. But this is also another instance of Louis using physical violence against his partner when (justifiably) angry.

Look, abusive relationships are complicated. Mutually toxic ones even more so. Reactive abuse is a thing, when an initial victim becomes violent or abusive in response to abuse they've received. It's complicated, and I speak from personal experience.

But I very much feel like the show is SCREAMING at the audience that things are not simple and that no one in this scenario is blameless, ESPECIALLY not Louis. He's not blameless in the case of Claudia. He's not blameless in the destruction of his relationship with Lestat. He's not blameless in his relationship with Armand, for all it's built on a lie, because he entered it to fucking make Lestat mad for god's sake and that's a terrible foundation for a relationship.

Raglan James says Louis is the one to really be afraid of. Louis at the end of the season with his "I own the night" speech. Much of the second half of S2 is ABOUT this.

The entire heartbreaking scene with Lestat at the end is Louis owning his part of the responsibility, and that's huge. Lestat accepted his responsibility and apologized on stage in Paris, and now Louis is as well.

So yeah, I think some people need to rethink their attitudes when they call Lestat Louis's abuser and Louis a battered wife. I read that and I go wait, we're not gonna interrogate that at all?

I of course feel at this point I have to put in a bunch of disclaimers about how this is not an anti-Louis post or trying to excuse the violence done by Lestat, blah blah but honestly some people who can only see things in terms of Good and Evil and Guilty and Innocent are never going to appreciate that kind of thing anyway. I just don't know why those people are watching this show, which is entirely about nuance and complicated interpersonal relations that are messy and resist easy analysis, BY DESIGN.

[savagewildnerness]

At some point I am going to write more fully about this scene. But, for now I just want to articulate that this moment, right here is both exquisitely beautiful & simultaneously is my personal problem with S1E5 The Drop.

Lestat is a monstrous vampire, capable of extreme violence and intentional evil. He often tries to kill the evildoer, but he enjoys killing good people too - he enjoys taking life, in love. And when he is threatened, he can lash out. He can even hurt those he loves, though he feels deep shame afterwards.

But Louis... Louis. Lestat would die before he watched Louis die. It's important because it's part of the tension in the books: from the moment he first sees Louis, Lestat would die before he watched Louis die and he would die if Louis died. He would die to save Louis.

But Louis, in the first few books...

He stands by, passively and lets Claudia murder Lestat

He burns Lestat, impulsively, in fear

He leaves Lestat to rot in a swamp

He doesn't stop to listen to what Lestat needs to explain at the trial (Absolutely understandable, this one)

He visits Lestat (this meeting) when he is in such a broken place that Louis perceives it as Lestat suffering a slow, mortal-esque death, akin to old-age. Lestat begs Louis to stay and help him, and though Louis is moved, he leaves him and as he leaves him he lets us know that he thinks Lestat may never go outside again and may die and he may never see him ever again.

When Lestat becomes a human and begs Louis to turn him back into a vampire, Louis refuses - implying he absolutely never would do that, even if it meant watching Lestat die.

The whole tension, as I see it, between Lestat and Louis is centred around the fact that even if Lestat isn't sure how much Louis loves him, and Louis himself at first isn't sure... we, the readers can feel Louis loves Lestat, as Lestat loves Louis.

But, through the first few books, Louis would not sacrifice himself for Lestat as Lestat would for him. In fact he would actively think Lestat was going to die and would not do any thing to try to prevent it. This creates a tension as gradually we the reader and Louis himself begin to feel and Louis begins to know and show the depth of his love for Lestat too.

The Drop occurring (and I 100% believe it did occur on the show now) negates this aching emotion.

I am glad, though, that this scene, in S2E8 conveys this feeling from Lestat towards Louis now though. Lestat could not cope with Louis hurting himself. He could not bear it. No matter how far away he was, he would hold himself accountable for not protecting Louis. He holds himself even more accountable because Lestat knows how dangerous Armand is, of course.

This isn't articulated well, but I'm just reflecting on it and I guess I'm trying to work out my complicated feelings.

Incidentally, I am not saying that Louis ever loves Lestat less than Lestat loves Louis. I think Louis takes longer to know his own love and also it does grow gradually... but a lot of Louis' inaction and stance isn't from a lack of love towards Lestat. Rather it's from a combination of his own personality - Louis has a tendency towards actively desiring his own non-existence so it's sort of like he'd never take that chance away from anyone else. And in some of the above cases, Lestat has wronged him, or Louis thinks he has.

Lestat is an endurer... although he does seek to end himself as often as Louis, if not more often, he dwells less in the imagining of it and appears, at least as much as he shares it to either suddenly leap into it, or to fall into it through a deep depression.

It isn't that they don't have the same leanings, just their timescales and the way they get there are different.

But Lestat would never put Louis in (im)mortal danger: not even in his greatest rage. I cannot believe it. Though, on the TV show, I believe he did it. But book-Lestat would never.

[nalyra-dreaming]

I am rather new to the fandom but there seems to be a subsection of it that is more worried about forcing their own narrative then actually appreciating the story the show is telling. They are trying so hard to push this Lestat is the evil villain and Armand is the better choice narrative even though the show has told us differently. I have seen these takes that Armand was “forced” to do things by the coven and he’s a victim when we’ve seen actual evidence that he has the power to dominate the coven which means at the very least he could have saved all three of them from that play but they are so focused on that one line of Louis blaming Lestat when it’s very obvious Louis was in the dark about almost everything surrounding the play

Yeah…. well. 😬

I know what you speak of, and all I can say is that these people should maybe watch the SDCC 2024 panel, either on AMC+ or maybe here:

Because Assad clearly says Armand killed Claudia and orchestrated “their“ deaths (Louis & Claudia). (at about 10mins)

Which, btw was also already proven by the trial script *shrugs*

The show kept to the book here, as was to be anticipated. Armand is (something like) the antagonist after all… for a while^^.

There are some who cling to that soft “beige pillow“ fanon version of his character though… which is their loss imho, because I find Armand with all his facets so much more fascinating. Same for Louis, Claudia and all of them really. I don’t want any of them without their faults or edges.

And luckily for us the show really doesn’t soften them. 😈

Which of course doesn’t mean one shouldn’t follow the narrative 😬 (or realize when truths are revealed for and to Louis)… but season 3 will clear some things up there, I‘m quite sure^^

[showmey0urfangs]

This person on twitter said that any sex between loumand after 1949 is considered rape by deception. If i don’t agree on this, does that make me a bad person? is this even true at all?? i promise im not starting shit, sometimes im genuinely confused on how to navigate this show (and the fandom) because im not educated enough about its heavy themes. and now i dont even know if i can continue shipping loumand if thats how ppl think of them. you dont have to answer this if you dont want to im sorry if i bringing you discomfort i just dont know what to think and i have nobody to discuss this show with. https://x.com/dhampirdulac/status/1812391085974454647?s=46

Hi Anon! I've seen this same kind of talk floating around both on here and on Twitter. I don't agree with it personally. I think it stems from wanting to apply human morality and human logic to creatures that are not. These are monsters, as beautiful and alluring as they may look.

If we follow this logic, then every single sexual encounter Louis had with Lestat in season 1 was also rape. Lestat gives Louis the dark gift under duress and false pretenses, and he lies to him and manipulates him throughout their entire relationship. How dare people ship them and find their sex scenes enjoyable?! Jail!!!

I've also seen people argue that the only reason Louis continues to have sex with Lestat is because he uses it as his only bargaining chip to avoid further violent outbursts. Or that he traded it in exchange for making Claudia. Therefore all the sex between them is also rape by coercion. And if you enjoy it then you are an immoral pervert! Jail!!!

I've also seen folks argue that due to Armand's past trauma, he's unable to fully consent to the type of dynamic that he and Louis engage in. He's using BDSM as a form of self harm and evil devious former pimp Louis uses it to manipulate him. So he's also being raped each time he has sex with Louis or that Louis orders him to bend over face down ass up in the coffin. Jail!!!

I've also seen the argument that in s1 ep6, Lestat allows Louis to rape him in a similar way to what Magnus did to him. But Lestat allows it to happen because he feels it's the only way to get Louis back. So if you enjoyed the hate fuck scene in that episode, jail!!!

And of course, you also have the issue of the vast and problematic age gap with Armand and Daniel. A brown man who is former sex slave dating a white man who once referred to him as a rent boy and mocked his religious beliefs. Outrageous! But on the flip side, you have a vulnerable and frail old man who is attacked and coerced into vampirism by an infinitely more powerful being, and who is now forced to be connected to him for eternity. How can Daniel possibly consent to sex in that situation? Unacceptable! Jail!!!

Oh, and Claudia is also being raped by Madeleine because she's older in human years and clearly has a penchant for younger partners. But on the flip side, Madeleine is being raped by Claudia because Claudia is older in vampiric years and far more powerful than her. Immediate Jail for both of them!!!

So basically by this logic, all the characters on the show are constantly raping each other left and right, and we as an moral and righteous audience should not be enjoying any of it lest we be branded apologists and perverts.

I find this to be such a laughably surface level and reductive way of looking at the complex dynamics between these characters. And again, it seeks to define them in human terms and to confine them to a human understanding of what a "healthy" loving relationship looks like.

At this point I have no interest in engaging with any of this because we've been having this same discourse for the past two years. Once you scratch beneath the surface, it very quickly became evident that all these arguments are just strawman. It's a way for people to minimize and dismiss ships or characters they don't like and prop up the ones they do. It's a way for them to virtue signal and pretend they are better and smarter than all the other unrefined peasants who are consuming this show 'wrong'. They are morally superior because they prefer one blood thirsty serial killer over all the others. It's a boring, sterile and useless discussion.

I'd say keep shipping Loumand if you want to, or don't if it makes you uncomfortable. But I think the people making these arguments need to consider that perhaps a dark gothic romance about toxic monsters that kill for a living is not the right show for them. Like I said a year ago, if you want bland, sanitized, PG rated, unproblematic vampires, there is always Twilight. ✨😊

[lackey-of-louis-du-point-du-lac]

Although I've put some distance over fan discourse now because it's a lot and very buzz right now I actually can't stop thinking about the argument about Who Is The True Big Bad.

Though I once believed that they are all bad in their own respective degrees (leaving out the murder they all commit) I recently changed my mind.

Louis' story is a story at its core about a human who has been oppressed his whole life and struggles with his Morality even before the whole "you have to kill people to survive" thing started. Louis' story is about being human in a vampire's lifestyle. And it's understandable because he sees his world as a human and himself a monster.

Everyone defending Lestat saying what he did was fine or normal for a vampire aren't wrong. It is normal for him to act violently. It's their nature as Vampires. But it's also...wrong.

Lestat is the villain because we see it in a lens of a human. Louis will always be human so his horrors will always be leveled in terms of the humanity he clings to. The cheating, the screaming, the apathy to his family and business are everything everyone sees as a horror. A tragedy. Especially to Louis. He doesn't understand it. He fears it. And it hurts him.

Louis is a connection to the world and we can't fault him for being himself, for valuing his humanity.

But for Lestat Louis is kinda the villain in his story. Or better fitting his "Judas". In his own way Lestat clings to the parts of him that he desires to fulfil about himself. To be loved. Wanted and joined in a companionship. To be a monster without apology or shame. Louis does not fulfil this and it frustrated Lestat. He acts out. He doesn't understand that acting out or the way he does it is wrong. He acts towards Louis as if he's already a well versed vampire or someone who takes to vampirism well. He expects this from Louis when it isn't FAIR for him to do so since he knows, somewhat, how Louis thinks but this doesn't stop him.

And I know this is the point of the show but also now that I've understood the show a bit better over time Louis is Lestat's lover in the truest word. I think Lestat Loves Louis more than Louis does most of the time. Louis might be full of humanity than any other vampire out there but Lestat is filled with Love than any other vampire out there.

I always thought of Nikki as "the one who got away" but the more I learned about him, he was more of a tumble and stumble into love. Lestat loved him but he never really gave himself into Nikki as much. There are parallels between Louis and Nikki (which is a post for another day) that are obvious. But what really makes Louis and Nikki different is that Nikki was made and left. Once he got mad and guilty and depressed Lestat had left. When Louis got like that Lestat didn't leave and even when he did it was far. He knew that Louis was still home.

But I digress that's not the point. The point is that Louis out of all them is not a true victim but can't ever be a true villain. Louis is so human it hurts and so we are forced to see through the lens of defining good Vs evil through it because that's what he does to himself.

Yes they all do horrible things to others and to each other but out of all of them (Claudia aside because she's really the true victim as they took a lot of her own agency away from her) Louis is not as bad. I do not think he is. Of course this does not mean any of them deserve love any less.

I just think painting them as villains is not really encompassing them all but if we have to then Louis should not be the top and most hated one. If we have to judge them as villains I think that it won't do to judge them based on opinion but rather how much agency one had and what they reacted with. Along with that how much power and what they do with it.

[agathah]

Episode 8 spoiler!!

How do you feel about the fact that they made Armand too dirty in the series? I was ready for him to take part in Claudia’s fate, but it seems to me that his agreement with Louis’ death was a bad decision. It's just out of character. I don't even know what to feel about this. It looks like they decided to sacrifice the personality of a minor character in order to win Lestat back into the audience's good graces. I would like to know your opinion, as a fan of the books and Armand in particular.

Ohh now we're talking, i couldn't say anything about this on twt because i was afraid i was gonna get some kind of hate, but as you asked (I'm so glad you did), I'm gonna tell you what I think. You guys know i love Armand especially because he's a complex character, not entirely evil and definitely not entirely good, but also human, very human, ironically. First things first, I don't like what they did to loumand. Did you guys notice how corny they were? It's like they were written to be unlikable, to be tasteless. And I say this as a loustat warrior. And the way they connect in the books is so beautiful because they match melancholy, they want to find purpose in life with one another. It was never supposed to work, yes, but now we go back to the last episode. Of course, we haven't seen Armand's version of it all, but they definitely made him worse, and I'm not sure how I feel about that. It's off character if we compare this version of him to the book one, but if this is how the writers wanted to adapt Armand, then it's not necessarily bad writing. The thing I don't like is exactly what you pointed out, Armand looked like this manipulative cruel villain who trapped louis in this abusive relationship for decades by playing the victim in every single opportunity he had, all of this for Louis to go back to Lestat, and Lestat to seem less evil. Don't get me wrong, I love lestat, and I loved how we got to see that he's not this soulless monster they made up. But that had a cost: making armand look worse than him. My hope is that Armand is supposed to have the "lestat effect" next season (in S1 they villanized lestat in a very similar way they did with Armand in S2, and now lestat is likeable again, so maybe they're gonna show Armand's side of the story next season and things will be more understandable). But even if they do that, they painted Armand as really bad and cruel, and that's such a superficial take on his character. Also the fight between Louis and him was so anticlimactic. I think it's weird how the show emphasized how powerful Armand was, a 500 year old vampire, but he seems to be outsmarted by every single character in the show. And the whole "Armand directed the play" plot was so ??? I don't know, was the coven that important? Is he really supposed to have this machiavellian persona in this particular situation? And just to be clear I'm not saying that i want him to be more morally correct, i love to see these characters being evil. I just don't like how they made him look weak and unlikeable at the end (and in my opinion yes, i think part of the point was to elevate lestat's character :/) Anyway, sorry I WROTE A LOT LOL AKSJSK and I could write more, but that's basically what I think

[aryastark-valarmorghulis]

Reposting this on its own because I need to make sense re: Armand and what the hell was going on with him before and during the trial.

"I will not harm you" were the first words Armand said to Louis, and later, he reiterates "I will not harm you; and I never have".

Now, we know this isn’t quite true, because Armand hurt Louis - mostly by proxy but not exclusively - he lied, gaslighted him (very convenient to agree to erase Louis' memory in SF, right?) and ultimately betrayed him, causing Claudia's death.

On the other hand, when Armand had the chance to kill Louis with fire he didn’t, and not because he had some evil TM mastermind plan, but because he loved Louis (yes, in his own flawed, imperfect way, but he loved him). And most importantly, why does Armand set Louis free? He has nothing to gain from it and everything to lose: he could alienate the coven if discovered, he's aware Louis won't forgive him (he says it later!), and I'm pretty sure, if he knew Louis at all, he at least suspected Louis would try to go all Kill Bill. So why does Armand set Louis free? Because he loves him.

Oh, and he also had no guarantee at all that, after setting him free, Lestat wouldn’t run to Louis and reclaim his role as the big hero who saved him. In the tower scene, Armand is scared as hell that Lestat is going to expose him.

So. Armand loves Louis. He stayed with him for 70+ years fully knowing (at least, unconsciously) that he was a rebound. And if Armand loves him, why would he let him die on that stage? When he saved him before and rescued him after, at his own peril?

So, my opinion: Armand wasn’t going to let Louis die, but you cannot script a hurricane, so Lestat happened, and after, it was just so convenient to let Louis believe what suits both the most - that Lestat is an undeserving monster etc, etc.

Of course, there is always option 2: Armand knew Lestat wouldn't have let Louis die on that stage, so he allowed him to do the hard work and then stepped in to do his own little saving in secret.

But of course, now that all the stones (ha) have been turned, who will believe or trust Armand again? Louis? Not a chance. Lestat? Please. Daniel? We'll see. 

Maybe I'll add more later on Armand's opaqueness during S2 (to me, he was quite an enigma in the books, so, I'm not complaining too much. I loved him as a character in the books, love him now, my weird gremlin etc, etc), which of course includes the final twist of Daniel's turning; but I feel like we don't have enough on him. We only scratched the surface with S2 Armand and we have a lot of puzzle pieces that don't quite match and they're not enough to get the big picture, maybe only a reflection of it.

[ca-suffit]

Some Lestans are so unsubtle about their racism, it's laughable. I find it hard to participate in certain fandom discussions, which is a shame since both Lestat and Armand have their share of toxic traits and flaws, which SHOULD be interesting to discuss. But then you have Lestans who are like "s1 gave you the worst version of Lestat, we've been saying he's not that evil, just wait till s3" "we've been telling you that Lestat has been unfairly characterized" when s1 was narrated by Louis because of course why should we trust the words of a black man who describes the domestic violence he endured?

And while Armand's horrible behavior and gaslighting are brought up too (and I appreciate when they are analyzed because people forget different types of abuse exist), it's often used by these stans to be like "well this is why Lestat isn't terrible etc etc" I'm like, you just love pointing out the abuse in another relationship mostly when it services your own abusive otp? As if you give a fuck about Louis ending up in one cage/prison/box or another. Fake ass people.

The consensual sex scene between Louis/Armand is even described by fans as "Louis forcing himself on Armand" or "Louis' feelings for Armand are actually only about Lestat" but somehow Louis disassociating from sex with Lestat while taking to Claudia is forgotten huh? I'm not going to forget the Lestans who made unoriginal jokes about brown MOC being undesirable, impotent and inferior stereotypes to their white blorbo all season long and are still doing it to this day. If people aren't seeing the racism bleeding through some of these shipping fueled discussions, they are ignorant.

.

[calipsan]

Okay Essay Coming:

I think one of the most central theses of Vampire Chronicles is that people (or vampires) destroy what the want in the (often selfish) pursuit of that desire. In IWTV, Lestat makes Louis because he wants companionship. Louis tells us that it’s because of his house and money, BUT from later context it’s clear that Lestat falls in love with Louis. Mortal Louis also falls in love with the IDEA of Lestat, and says that meeting him was the most significant moment of his mortal life. However, that infatuation pales in comparison to the world that is opened to him when he becomes a vampire. So, in turning Louis, Lestat destroys the love and fascination Louis had for Lestat in the first place.

Then we have Claudia who Lestat makes to keep Louis with him, to make them a family, and honestly this works out pretty well, but eventually Claudia’s hatred for Lestat leads to the family being destroyed. Again, what Lestat sought (family and companionship) was destroyed by the very person he made to accomplish that. 

Then we have Armand first persuading Louis with the mind gift to turn Madeleine and then killing Claudia in order to bring Louis to him because he loves him. Those acts push Louis further from him and destroy the passion Louis had. Armand loves the mortal aspect of Louis; Louis claims that dies when he makes Madeleine, and then Armand is unable to reawaken Louis’ passion and love even after they’re together for many, many years becauase he states that died with Claudia.

Finally at the end of the story, Louis hopes to have convinced Daniel about the evil nature of vampires but instead all he has done is make Daniel want to be a vampire. Daniel believes that if he were to become a vampire he could make it all work out. We’re led to believe, and indeed, it comes true, that Daniel would not be able to be happy as a vampire just as Louis isn’t happy. 

In TotBT, Lestat loves David, wants to make him a vampire, but David denies him. When Lestat becomes a mortal man, he wants to have sex with David, but David still denies him, saying that going to bed with Lestat mortal body would bring back too many painful memories of his own youth. Once Lestat turns David into a vampire, once he finally gets his wish, he finds that David is no longer the man he loved. The very act of turning him into a vampire makes him different. And though David says that he did in fact want Lestat to turn him and was glad that Lestat forced him so that the decision was taken out of his hands, Lestat still does not seem happy with David. He doesn’t like the fact that David is powerful and would challenge his authority in Rue Royale.

We have Gretchen who loves Lestat in part because of his unusual demeanor. He tells her all about himself and she seems to believe him and accept him. Then when he returns to her in his true vampire shape, she is terrified and pushes him away. 

This theme also comes up in Blood and Gold. In pursuing Pandora, Marius pushes away Bianca, the person with whom he’d had an admittedly happier relationship. Then, because of his grief over her leaving, he misses the letter that Pandora left for him which could have brought them back together for good. 

I haven’t reread the rest of the books so I can’t think of all the details of them, but of course we have Gabrielle and Claudia, both made by Lestat because he loves them, and he loses them both. We have Armand turning Daniel and that changing their relationship.

This message, I think, is that when we seek something blindly, we will often destroy our chance of ever reaching it, and when we are looking in on a life we think we want, once we have that life it will never be what we expected.

[savagewildnerness]

OK!  Thoughts on S2E2, Do you know what it means to be loved by death?

I love the gold (Pegasus?) statue Louis and Claudia sit upon at the start of the episode

“We’ve been together 77 years Daniel.” …”44 more than he did with Lestat.” LOL Armand (I agree with Daniel: “Keep selling it!” !!!!)

LOL @ Louis’ Parisian neck scarf

The fashion plates Claudia has cut out and stuck inside her bed… my heart

Louis looks so good in the red darkroom light, oh my!

Claudia asking Louis who he is reminded me of my thoughts the other day (a very brief summary):

Louis is afraid to look deeply within himself at who he is, in case he is not perfect, as he needs to believe he is.  But he does believe he deserves love.

Conversely, Lestat knows himself - for his evil especially, and despite it all, he still likes himself mainly. But he is afraid he is utterly unloveable.

Claudia talking about a new brain in her head and Armand a new body for her brain… are they *really* going to go there?  It is seeming like it?

I like Madeleine from the wee bit we saw, and I love Claudia’s dress

“It’s just Rashid” LOL

The first meeting of Armand and Louis:

Armand is like a poem made into the form of a being - the way Assad’s Armand speaks, how he looks, how he looks at Louis: he radiates a quiet peace, calm & poetic gentleness, which gave me shivers and goosebumps. Like the beautific gaze of an angel. All added to by Daniel Hart’s divine score, reflecting exactly the same emotions. This is how Armand is often described in the books (until he’s not), but because of the extremes Armand can go to, I don’t often think of this calm, angelic, almost innocent side to him so much… but oh how I felt it

I love how the lamp lights flicker.  It’s like a fairytale romance and everything about it: down to “I will not harm you” is exactly as Louis would wish to hear

SANTIAGO!  I love Ben Daniels.  I love Santiago’s outfit and his eyes and his theatricality and his evident cleverness.

Interesting how dilapidated the Theatre des Vampires is.  Seems like it hasn’t been updated since the ’20’s - half empty; broken bulbs… I am sure we have more to hear on this in the show…

Love how Armand brought cinema into the plays

The plays though have such a tawdry, distasteful feel.  I would agree with Louis’ and Lestat’s visceral dislike of them, even before the human sacrifice.  Though I do like the Brecht vibes.  But it is such a contrast to S1 Lestat and Louis at the Opera…

LOL @ Louis’ face seeing the portrait of Lestat!  And “They’ve got a shrine to him!” Hahaha

Whaaatttt @ Santiago and star charts!! Hahahahaha??!?!?!

Claudia on Loumand… I guess we have our answer now as to whether the vampires really are having actual sex and exactly how!  Cheers Claudia!!!

Roget knowing about Lestat potentially sleeping… interesting…

I’ll copy and paste from elsewhere my thoughts on the Loustat scene…

“Do not waist life…” - Oh Lestat, the illiterate boy & young man you were; so desperate to learn & be good, with a Mother for whom knowledge & escape through books was her only solace… who couldn’t even be bothered to teach you the alphabet.  Now, with your preternatural skills, you can read & write & do any thing you wish… but of course - it makes sense that you would never have entirely learned how to spell, or at least that there’d be the odd, common words you didn’t know. (Occurence, too.) Little details, breaking my heart even more. Thank you everyone for caring so much, you thought about the spelling of Lestat’s letter. I noticed. I care about every tiny detail like this & feel it, like love: deep in my soul.

Also: is Dreamstat *really* going to make me cry in every single episode of season 2, even when he’s barely in the episode for a breath?! (1 min 40 seconds to be precise!) He made me cry in episode 1, and here he made me cry too. 

Oh Louis: to read this letter & all your internal pain & shame & sorrow & guilt & love to deepen, I’m sure even more. Oh Sam, how you spoke the letter. Oh Lestat’s outfit, from their first “date”….

Another link to the episode title here -  Do you know what it means to be loved by death? too

For anyone who’s like the full text of the letter:

“My Louis

In the event you are reading this, something dreadful has occured, which is not my own death, but rather the fact that we now both exist (e?) in two different worlds.

Do not waist life seeking revenge on the person or persons responsible. Do not give them the satisfaction of the hunt. Let their treachery eat them from within and instead…”

(Continued as spoken…)

“And you… you go carry on with your living. Know only this, Mon Cher, you are the only being I trust and whom I love, above and beyond myself.

All my love belongs to you. You are its keeper. A veil will now forever separate our union. But it is a thin veil… and I am always on the other side, my face pressed up against your longing.

Lestat de Lioncourt”

Alice truly doesn’t exist, does she?  Armand: what *have* you done to Daniel!?!  Is all of his life a lie? Is Daniel's shaking here evidence that Armand's mind-altering has had physical impact on Daniel too?  And Louis clearly knows some of it too… though I presume not the love part…. And THEY MUST LOVE EACH OTHER like Devil’s Minion which always makes me sob. (Or maybe Alice does exist, but Armand is why she wouldn’t marry Daniel?)

Oh Claudia - your GLEE at Murder mansion

“I like how you withhold” - Armand providing your next chat up line - you’re welcome!

OMG we’re going to actually see Nicolas play violin!  I am SO SCARED!  I hope I’ll adore it and I have faith in the show makers. But, I have also seen so much terrible violin miming (it makes me wonder, when people play surgeons, is what they are doing this annoyingly unrealistic too and I just have no idea!?!) and it is particularly noticeable, as usually piano miming is very good!  Anyway, I know it is such a minor thing in the greater scheme of things, but I know I will be so irritated if it doesn’t look like Nicki is playing the violin.  And it’s only that telly violin miming is so notoriously bad.  Oh, please - let me believe in it!  I BEG!

[nalyra-dreaming]

Can I ask is it true do you think that Lestat’s rockstar Lestat is to take the heat off of Louis following last season? I’m aware he is interested in music but how much of it is his interest in music and performance versus purposely having attention from fans the public etc to protect Louis from vampires he fears will come after Louis? He will be touring and busy so unless Louis is there with him which I don’t really see in the first half of the season he must be extremely worried since he isn’t around Louis. He is aware that Louis doesn’t need a protector but he still worries right? They already lost Claudia so if he potentially lost Louis too it would break him. I don’t see them back together but maybe talking and in contact and taking things slow. Louis is off doing his thing and Lestat does his music but I can see an air of ‘I’m patient and I’m giving you space but I love you and eventually there will be a point when I think we can try again’ with the two of them next season

Well, I mean... Lestat doing that is literally book canon:

The Vampire Lestat

I wondered how many of our kind had "noticed " the book. Never mind for the moment the mortals who thought it was fiction. What about other vampires? Because if there is one law that all vampires hold sacred it is that you do not tell mortals about us. You never pass on our "secrets " to humans unless you mean to bequeath the Dark Gift of our powers to them. You never name other immortals. You never tell where their lairs might be. My beloved Louis, the narrator of Interview with the Vampire, had done all this. He had gone far beyond my secret little disclosure to my rock singers. He had told hundreds of thousands of readers. He had all but drawn them a map and placed an X on the very spot in New Orleans where I slumbered, though what he really knew about that, and what his intentions were, was not clear. Regardless, for what he'd done, others would surely hunt him down. And there are very simple ways to destroy vampires, especially now. If he was still in existence, he was an outcast and lived in a danger from our kind that no mortal could ever pose. All the more reason far me to bring the book and the band called The Vampire Lestat to fame as quickly as possible. I had to find Louis. I had to talk to him. In fact, after reading his account of things, I ached for him, ached for his romantic illusions, and even his dishonesty. I ached even for his gentlemanly malice and his physical presence, the deceptively soft sound of his voice. Of course I hated him for the lies he told about me. But the love was far greater than the hate. He had shared the dark and romantic years of the nineteenth century with me, he was my companion as no other immortal had ever been. And I ached to write my story for him, not an answer to his malice in Interview with the Vampire, but the tale of all the things I'd seen and learned before I came to him, the story I could not tell him before. Old rules didn't matter to me now, either. I wanted to break every one of them. And I wanted my band and my book to draw out not only Louis but all the other demons that I had ever known and loved. I wanted to find my lost ones, awaken those who slept as I had slept. Fledglings and ancient ones, beautiful and evil and mad and heartless-they'd all come after me when they saw those video clips and heard those records, when they saw the book in the windows of the bookstores, and they'd know exactly where to find me. I'd be Lestat, the rock superstar.

Canonically Lestat does not know where Louis is when he wakes and sees the book. We'll see if he will know in the show. But I can see a similar setup, with Louis maybe off somewhere in the vaults of the Talamasca trying to regain his true memories. Or he and Lestat meet from time to time during the tour. We'll see :)

But in any case the reason for Lestat to become rockstar in the first place will stay, I would bet real money on it :)

[queer-is-future]

Curious if the show is going to address this diary entry of Claudia’s from the book Merrick. This was written in a diary Louis was not aware of. It completely calls into question Claudia’s actual motivations behind what she did.

“September 21, 1859

It has been so many decades since Louis presented me with this little book in which I might record my private thoughts. I have not been successful, having made only a few entries, and whether these have been written for my benefit I am unsure.

Tonight, I confide with pen and paper because I know which direction my hatred will take me. And I fear for those who have aroused my wrath.

By those I mean, of course, my evil parents, my splendid fathers, those who have led me from a long forgotten mortality into this questionable state of timeless ‘bliss.’

To do away with Louis would be foolish, as he is without question the more malleable of the pair.”

Louis will do as I wish, even unto the very destruction of Lestat, which I plan in every detail. Whereas Lestat would never cooperate with my designs upon Louis. So there my loyalty lies, under the guise of love even in my own heart.

What mysteries we are, human, vampire, monster, mortal, that we can love and hate simultaneously, and that emotions of all sorts might not parade for what they are not. I look at Louis and I despise him totally for the making of me, and yet I do love him. But then I love Lestat every bit as well.

Perhaps in the court of my heart, I hold Louis far more accountable for my present state than ever I could blame my impulsive and simple Lestat. The fact is, one must die for this or the pain in me will never be sealed off, and immortality is but a monstrous measurement of what I shall suffer till the world revolves to its ultimate end. One must die so that the other will become ever more dependent upon me, ever more completely my slave. I would travel the world afterwards; I would have my way; I cannot endure either one of them unless that one becomes my servant in thought, word, and deed.

Such a fate is simply unthinkable with Lestat’s ungovernable and irascible character. Such a fate seems made for my melancholy Louis, though the destroying of Lestat will open new passages for Louis into the labyrinthian Hell in which I already wander with every new thought that comes in my mind.

When I shall strike and how, I know not, only that it gives me supreme delight to watch Lestat in his unguarded gaiety, knowing that I shall humiliate him utterly in destroying him, and in so doing bring down the lofty useless conscience of my Louis, so that his soul, if not his body, is the same size at last as my own.”

Merrick

Anne Rice

[daenystheedreamer]

No real and based I love lestat but I fully do not understand the people who believe Louis is lying and manipulating? Like are there parts of the story where he’s trying to make himself look good, yeah but those are really obvious where he’s like oh I was taking these pictures but it was nothing really. But on the whole I think he’s pretty truthful and the reason the story changes is because his perspective changes. Like if he just wanted to look good wouldn’t he have been like nah lestat’s full of shit about how Claudia was turned. But instead he says looking back I think he was right and that’s what you should use while making a face that is so full of shame and regret and loss like it just happened yesterday even though it was 70 yrs ago because Jacob Anderson is a phenomenal actor

i dont think this applies to every lestat fan of course but it IS sinister how there's really this idea/theory that louis/armad/claudia are all liars besmirching innocent sad tortured traumatised perfect precious white man lestat. lestat having those evil parts of him is what makes him funnnnnn why are you shaving off the bipolar disorder off him!!! theres a quote from one of the writers from the after-episode of the finale where its like this is the real lestat, not the 80% accurate lestat. hugely paraphrasing but very telling to me. we largely did see lestat. scream