#mindlair

[ellstinson]

THEM

[givehimthemedicine]

I get Vecna'd and my friends don't know my favorite song because I don't really have one so they check my yt history and I awkwardly crosswalk courtesy jog out of the mindlair to 10 Hours Study Sleep Relax ASMR Cozy Library Cafe Forest Thunderstorm Nature Ambiance

[miaoumeowmiaw]

I think it’s true that Kali will return in Season 5, but not in the way everyone expects. I feel like only her psychic avatar will appear in the Mindlair to help in some way during the final battle. Not sure if that makes sense.

🙇🏻‍♂️

[henrysglock]

The consciousness and its psychic avatar are with Henry. In Season 4, we saw that when it tried to find Max, it wasn’t possible, which may have also made it harder for there to be a “door” to Mindlair. On the other hand, Will seems to have a stronger connection with him, which could be relevant to the story. I’m not sure if this idea makes sense, but it’s something that makes me think. I’m not exactly sure how this dynamic works with Eleven being able to access the Mindlair.

Max's consciousness and psychic avatar are not with her body? Yeah. Is "it" El, then?

Also, Will doesn't have a connection to Henry. He has a residual connection to the Mindflayer, as far as we know. Henry is conflated with the Mindflayer.

If they're going to retrieve Max, they're going to have to work with Henry and/or Vecna. Henry would be the more likely source of a powerful connection/a "back door" into the inner world where Max seems to be than Will would be.

My money is on Henry, Max, and El working together in the psychic realm, not Will.

[bugsbenefit]

super bright flickering overhead lights and ominous mindlair esque red glow on the ground aside btw, What are they filming at stone mountain

like. what are they practicing here, who's going to go ragdoll through the air this time? we're getting stunts at castle byers?

there's three possibilities of what's up with that castle byers in general as far as i can see right now, it's either 1) the real UD castle byers where shit just starts going down after a while with the mindlair redlights going on eventually 2) it's the real UD castle byers but from the past and these are all things that happened before but we didn't get to see, or 3) all of this is happening in some weird vision mind place sequence and it's not actually real castle byers

[willthewise7]

These scenes were omitted from being used in Season 4.

So many interesting potential places there.

Dimension X - Some sort of new dimension that we don’t know about? Are there more out there that will be shown by the end? Further plot twist? Or is this just where Vecna has ended up?

Edit: It’s where Vecna ended up before it was named the Upside Down.

Hellscape - This is interesting. The mindscape and mindlair belongs to Vecna. What’s the Hellscape? Something to do with the Mindflayer?

California Skatepark mindscape - Guessing this was to do with Max but was removed.

[lightoftheseraph]

Max Mayfield in Stranger Things 4 + @screenshotsofdespair (pt 1/2)

Image ID below the cut

[ID: Six screencaps from Stranger Things with various screenshots edited over top of them.

Image 1 Max eyes are downcast with a neutral expression on her face. She is standing in crowded bleachers at Lucas' basketball game. An edited screencap says pros : none and cons everyone.

Image 2 A close up of Max handing a ticket to Lucas's basketball game back to Lucas. Edited over top is a screencap that says Thanks I do not want it 

Image 3: A closeup of Max from the shoulders up. Her eyes are cast upwards and she has a neutral expression. The edited screencaps saying Serotonin Out of Stock.

Image 4: A view of Max from the chest up. She is sitting in a graveyard. Her eyes are clouded and rolled back into her head. A hand is on her shoulder that belongs to Steve. An edited screencap says you are no longer present.

Image 5: A dark landscape where Max is barely visible. She is mid scream. The edited screencap says, Cry for help.

Image 6: Max with her back to the viewer. In front of her is Vecna's mind lair which is a reddish landscape with towering spires. The edited screencap says add to horrors beyond your comprehension.

Image 7: Max is running with her back to the viewer through Vecna's mindlair. In the top left corner of the image is a view of the outside world. Max is suspended in the air while on the ground Steve, Dustin and Lucas are reaching up towards her.

/end ID]

[brionysea]

re what you said abt being curious abt what would've happened with Vecna visions, same tbh. we do get a bit close to that scenario when El goes from willingly being in Max's mind to being vined up in Vecna's mindlair, like the actual victims. bc the moment that happens she's physically unresponsive and doesn't talk to the others anymore etc, most Vecna vision like state Mike ever gets near

and it's always been kinda curious to me that El answers everyones questions at first and talks to everyone in the room with her. but after she gets trapped in the mindlair we only hear Mike's monologue

it's not like she necessarily can't hear the others. it's just that the choice was made to have them not address her directly and to never show us one of them talking from El's pov. we have no idea if El heard Will call Mike the heart. we only get her pov when Mike speaks to her. so that's an interesting filming choice. Mike is already the guy with a history of reaching out to possessed people in unresponsive states, but having El hear Will or Jonathan too could have finally confirmed that it really IS everyone that can do that. or that it's a loving/care connection you need. but they somehow managed to dodge that situation entirely by never showing us what/who El could actually hear. vry curious to me

wait that's such a good point

[aemiron-main]

*hit me with your best shot by pat benatar plays while mike taunts vecna and we think it’s gonna be an epic montage of mike dodging the hits and kicking vecna’s ass except instead vecna hits mike on the first shot and the music cuts out abruptly as mike flies across the mindlair*

[givehimthemedicine]

that stained glass door is being strange

first off, what does it mean that in the entirety of the Dear Billy scene, the front door is off its hinges and floating around just like the grandfather clock is? but when Max and El go back in there in Piggyback, it's on its hinges (that's what El gets tied up against). yet the clock is still floating around.

then, aside from all the doors=gates imagery that's constant throughout the show, this specific door keeps being shown functioning literally as a mind-gate.

on the night of the murders, Victor bursts through it and arrives in his war trance:

it sorta happens with Nancy when she's in the mindlair and the door is on its hinges in order to morph into memory footage:

and then Vecna plugs this door into the side of the snow ball and uses it to transport the girls from Max's head into his own.

at least El - he literally ties her up against the same door he just hurled her through to... get her ... to where the door is...

El is so connected with that door and Max is so connected with that clock and then those are the two household artifacts so prominently floating around in there.

[willthewise7]

So all of this buildup between Mike and El for a supposed love confession and where Mike finally says “I love you” to El and… it’s still not to her face.

Here he says it when she’s not in the room.

Here he says it when she’s in the mindlair.

So if they were one of the main couples and set to be endgame, why haven’t they both had a heart to heart about Mike’s feelings?

It’s always in dramatic circumstances, and never to El’s face. El did confess to Mike’s face in Season 3 Episode 8, with Mike still yet to do it, with one season left.

They also never talk to each other deeply about how they are feeling. The one key time that they did in Season 4 it led to their biggest ever fight. Parallel this to Byler and you get several heart to hearts, alongside them talking to each other.

[aemiron-main]

“if you say that you are mine

I’ll be here till the end of time”

If the subject is “his,” that’s tied to staying in the song. And is also tied to forever/end of time. But that part of the song isn’t Will pov, its Henry’s pov. “If you say that you are mine, I’ll be here till the end of time.” Henry is the one with time powers/his mindlair clock stuff, if Will is his, it’s going to be forever.

Smthn smthn if Will chooses to continue the cycle of abuse/stay with Henry in s5, he’ll be there until the end of time smth smthn what @heroesbyler and I just posted abt regarding staying = continuing the cycle of abuse smthn smthn the upside down is stuck on the day will disappeared smthn smth stuck time/“forever/end of time” is tied to repeating the cycle of abuse/joining Henry (will isn’t going to join him but Henry’s going to try and get him to), going to try and get Will to continue the cycle of abuse, doesn’t want Will to move on from what Henry did to him. Henry, framing it as if HES the one that’ll stay until the end of time, as if he’s doing WILL a favour when in reality he’d be the one forcing Will to stay eternally.

[givehimthemedicine]

( @himynameis4 big analysis part 2 reply in a new post so we don't have to keep reblogging that monstrosity)

Thank you so much for the feedback!! <3 I think I saw you post something along these lines a couple days ago but I averted my eyes lol but now I wanna go back and read all the theories I've been avoiding. great minds!

ok ok I'm following you on the Alice thing but here's where I get stuck - she's already on the floor for at least several seconds before Henry passes out. if his exhaustion was what interrupted the ritual, I would expect to see them both fall at about the same time as his concentration breaks, you know? like how Max falls irl at the same time as mindlair-Henry gets interrupted. and if Alice (even unwittingly?) did the radio and the song is truly playing again at least briefly, why do we only hear it in Victor's memory but not Henry's?

while I hesitate to agree that Alice's jaw was due to a rush job, I can buy that for all the lab kids because you're right he couldn't be leisurely about it and not every kid was isolated for it.

about Henry killing Victor - I never thought he meant to? because he said his plan was to frame him for murder. that was his alternate punishment for Victor's misdeeds because he had no powers to gain by killing him. Henry even has that later line "I tried to join them!" ("join" = recurring code for getting Vecna'd) but his suicide didn't even work (although idk if Henry is in charge of that). Henry's parents were the only two he specifically said he was holding a mirror up to and showing them what terrible people they were, and that may be how he found out how to activate other peoples' powers in the first place, and so with the lab kids and the cursed four he wasn't exactly punishing them for misdeeds he found offensive so much as just exploiting their vulnerability. but IF Henry had Vecna'd Victor then yeah I guess it would just look like the rabbits.

and ok the Will's eye color thing is so weird because I had no idea they really changed until right now (I just looked and by golly.) because I made a post recently pointing out that Jon and Joyce SAID Will's eye color was brown on his missing child poster. but the second they snap open after getting possessed they are hazel.

good question about Henry vs Will responding, it felt like the two were constantly wrestling but as time went on it seemed to be Henry winning more and more. I think this is where birthdaygate comes in because the writers keep setting major events around Will's bday (all of season 4 is set in the week of Will's bday and so are the Creel murders which there is NO reason for, like, pick any random month!) and Will would've for sure told Mike "btw thanks for remembering my birthday asshole" at rinkomania so if Will has forgotten his own bday there's definitely some memory commandeering going on.

to complicate it further, flayed Billy DID resist the MF at least for a minute there with the help of a fond memory, but the lighting in that scene is so nuts I have no idea if his eyes were ever supposed to be different. I need to review all the footage now with the eye thing in mind because wtf.

LOL powerhouse of the cell I'm high fiving your brain. that is so cool actually!!

anyway I appreciate your interest and I look forward to discussing more! (and yes there is supposed to be a part 3 but my brain is a bit fried rn and I shot a hole in my own logic already so that one will be a while longer)